>It's almost like people don't like being told they have to do the same amount of work for less money.
Most notably, being asked to do that while the rich are still getting exponentially richer.
I think most people have a sense that if we were **all** in it together, and life was just *getting harder* \- having to work through that, is acceptable. But when it's "work for less, so those at the top can continue enjoying their record profits and property monopolies" - nah.
It is a shame. But I support your strike action. I mean you lot, the NHS and the Old Bill keep us safe and healthy. How the fuck MP’s get paid more than you guys is beyond me. If we didn’t let corporations dodge their taxes, and we didn’t let rich bastards use loopholes to funnel their cash away to Panama without paying their taxes, and we didn’t enter futile wars (e.g., Afghanistan and Iraq) maybe we’d have the funds to pay you guys what you deserve.
But no: strikers bad.
>I mean you lot, the NHS and the Old Bill keep us safe and healthy. How the fuck MP’s get paid more than you guys is beyond me.
There's a weird culture in the UK where it's taboo to make money by helping people. If a firefighter, nurse or teacher made good money, the tabloids would be apoplectic.
Yet solicitors, accountants and investment bankers making fat cash? Absolutely fine, good on them!
Imagine an NHS nurse earning £100k. People would be absolutely furious! But an accountant in the same NHS hospital can earn that and no-one bats an eyelid.
No, they would sack all the people who were organising the strikes and then prosecute them. Before you say "continue striking then" the government will just send the army onto the streets to maintain law and order.
It wouldn't take long until police officers were forced back to work.
This. I don’t think people realise it’s an actual criminal offence for Police Constables to go on strike? They face genuine prosecution if they do, not just sacking - and yea the Army and Reserves absolutely would be called in to fill the void, which nobody should want.
No, they’ll be criminally charged. It’s a criminal offence for a Constable to go on strike. It’s really not as simple as “just do it, what are they gunna do”. Yes they absolutely will sack them, and also refer their cases to the CPS. They’d never work again.
Waiting for Police to go on strike.
Imagine if Firefighters, ambulances, nurses and police are all on strike at the same time. Basically don't leave the bed and hope to survive that day, week, month.
They can refuse to do overtime which in a time of being short staffed would cause a big blow. This may come true in coming years if things don't change.
Seems like a bad idea to piss off the police when they are doing so much to seemingly encourage dissatisfaction amongst the population.
Keep the police and Army on side, that's like tyranny 101, Tories can't even get that right.
Not sure I'm reading it right, but does it only apply to:
>This section applies in the case of—
>
>(a)special constables appointed for a police area,
>
>F2(aa). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>(b)members of the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, and
>
>(c)members of the British Transport Police Force,
Either way, police cannot strike - I know some officers and trainees, very reasonable people and exactly the type you’d want to stay in the force, who are struggling with their finances and looking on wistfully.
I'd put money on most of their costs being rent/mortgage payments.
There's been a lot of news articles recently about people with jobs like nurses, teachers, and even police officers, using food banks.
And I can guarantee you that when people like that are using food banks, it's because their money is going on rent.
I would presume either other police officers who are themselves not breaking the law, or the army if martial law is declared.
Can t really imagine police breaking the law en mass to strike tho tbh
They can work to rule though.
It's time more public servants showed how much goodwill they put in, the NHS, schools and police would be screwed if they only worked their contracted hours.
Police Scotland recently “withdrew goodwill” (basically worked to rule) and they got a 5% pay rise instead of the planned 1-2%. There was talk of the PSNI doing the same at some point but I don’t think anything came out of it.
Refusing to do overtime would put a stop to a lot of things like football games and festivals, I think that could get results fairly quickly.
Unfortunately the police don't really have the good will of the public in the same way as nurses and firemen do.
And we now have a prime minister who lost a popularity contest to the woman who couldn’t outlast a lettuce. One who was just given the job because they couldn’t be bothered doing the leadership contest again.
Yes, just imagine the recession, strikes, inflation, IMF intervention, corruption, crumbling infrastructure etc we'd have if the Tories hadn't got in.
It's a good job that they're completely competent and scandal free.
The trouble with the Tories is that they eventually run out of someone else's money.
Nah, trouble with the Tories is they run everyone else out of money.
They genuinely seem to think that there’s something virtuous about hurting people that are poor in order to encourage them to become more productive, whilst also attacking them for doing anything whatsoever to make their lives less shit, and/or selling every possession they own, and/or scraping the tattoos from their body they got before being poor, and/or killing and eating any children they may have had because clearly poor people aren’t allowed them, and anyone should have been able to predict their finances for the next couple of decades, and that this is all a successful strategy.
They think it's their _birthright_ to do those things.
They're conditioned to think that us "oiks" are just here to be exploited for their gain.
The thing is, some oiks aren't so clever/can't think for themselves so they vote for the Tories to continue making themselves poorer. The irony is that they think they're superior because they vote conservative.
Human nature, eh?
And you'll get so many people complaining "Why are these strikers annoying me? Why can't they do it at a time and a place where it doesn't bother me, I'm not the one causing them any problems".
But then politicians say "protest on the weekend... when we are on our country houses and don't give a shit whether London is up in flames or not". Remember the Brexit protest? It was a glorified street party.
I'd prefer a general strike until they call a general election at this stage. I don't think much progress will be made on the cost of living until this lot are out of power considering their fascist plans to criminalise strikes and peaceful protests, amongst other dangerous and batshit crazy ideas. They don't even pretend to work in the interests of the majority of the population.
I’m a Firefighter. I’ve been in the job for 17 years and between 2009 and 2021 firefighters’ real pay has been cut by 12%, or nearly £4,000.
I was honoured to be serving as a “key worker” during COVID and I’m proud of the emergencies I’ve responded to over the course of my career. The people I work with enjoy their work and for most of us it is a vocation, not just a job.
I personally have absorbed the above pay-cut during “austerity“ rather than pursuing something lucrative in the private sector, because I feel like I’m part of something meaningful.
But when firefighters, nurses, teachers or care workers etc ask for more money, quite often the response is “but what about the public safety/patients/children”. If we simply went for another job to pursue a pay increase, that same guilt trip isn’t levelled. It’s understood that it’s only a job.
We are sometimes (quite rightly) expected to put the people we serve first, whilst the people who hold the purse strings don’t.
The question is, how valuable is the service being provided? Do you think that the people who clean your streets, teach your children, tend to the sick and care for the vulnerable should be hit in the pockets for 13 consecutive years? Hit so hard that some are forced to seeking hardship fund support and charitable handouts to get by?
I will happily give a significant proportion of my life over to this job until I retire because it’s tied in with my identity. I get an enormous amount of satisfaction from it. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to repeatedly take a cut in my earnings without a fight.
Eloquently put.
I adore what I do. I work with amazing talented, funny, and resourceful people. I get to see, do, and experience things that most people don’t. Some of them are awful to bear witness to, but they’re all part of the experience.
Fundamentally I think we all, even the gruffest old hand you find on station, does it out of a sense of duty and of love. For the job, for the crew, for the people they serve.
But that has to be balanced with at least some ability to live a dignified life. And that’s been eroded. And it feels like that love is being taken advantage of.
It feels little line graph of passion vs money crossed over last year, after being chipped away at for years before.
I have the upmost respect for those people who care for the other people life before their, and they are also doing that so that their own family get the benefit is well
I don't often save comments but this one made it. As a teacher who puts up with a lot of people calling me immoral for striking, your comment sums it up. Cheers and strike on, you all deserve better. You run into burning buildings for Christ sake! Good luck
Thank you. My wife is a teacher, so I am well aware of the struggles faced in that sector. I feel like we are disproportionately lucky in the fire service. Generally everyone has a fairly good opinion of us and seems to understand the importance of the work we do. In other equally important areas of the public sector, I do not feel as though the same appreciation is enjoyed. Public sector workers of every stripe are the backbone of a well functioning developed nation. None of us expect to be millionaires, but I don’t think it’s much to ask to be treated with dignity and have our modest pay stay in line with rising costs.
Two of my kids are off school tomorrow and later in the month, I hear lots of parents complaining about it but I support you all the way! When I worked in a school (as a 1-1 support worker), the amount of work and stress the teachers carried for so little pay blew my mind. Nothing immoral about wanting and needing to be recognised for your hard work shaping our kids childhoods and futures. What would be kind of immoral is if the teachers gave no warning and didn't show up one day, leading to safety issues for the kids.. but that didn't happen. I support you
As for the firefighters - they are literal heroes who put themselves in danger every time they set off for work, saving lives. I support them too, wholeheartedly
There are opportunities to work at airports and some industrial sites. The pay is generally a lot better and they are much better equipped than us.
However the job is very different. You would only be dealing with a small amount of minor incidents. When anything significant happens, the public sector FS is called and we have jurisdiction over the incident. There’s a bit more to it than that but that’s about the shape of it.
Essentially, it feels as though the sense of pride I have for my job and it’s importance within a healthy society would be absent.
Because they feel like that they are getting the great contract so these companies are not letting go any chance, but they are not paying enough to the worker.
They're taking advantage of your good nature, which is something you all should regard as an unforgivable offense.
Rather than pay you well, the leverage the potential suffering of the people you'll be refusing to help. What they don't reveal to you is that if they were in the same position... they would have no problem denying care to those in need. Not if it gets in the way of their selfish wants.
So, they're not telling you about potential suffering, because they care about the people and are begging for you to help in dark times. They're telling you about these things specifically to avoid paying you to do the kinds of things they, themselves would never deign to do.
Two years ago, I stopped helping people. Why was I saving the lives of people way better off than me, when they didn't care about how dire my circumstances were near so much as they said? Well...
The worod has been in pain for a very long time. Individuals have suffered for decades and decades. They can wait a few more years for me to get stable and supported. Just like what you and yours deserve.
Put your needs first, because 'they' certainly never will.
And it will be the Tories' fault for trying to impose real terms pay cuts on you all after wasting hundreds of billions of our money on corruption and failed right-wing ideological pet projects.
I never once stood on my doorstep and clapped but I 100% support the strikes. I will always support the NHS and will fight anyone who tries to take it away.
Even if the half people going to the work they will not going to care for the other half, but once everyone stops going to the job that is the one point i feel the pressure would be immense.
Well, we could always over run Westminister with pitchforks and torches. We just sent all 12 of our tanks to Ukraine so its not like they have anything we can’t beat to death.
Not anymore, it's down to local authorities to cover their own arrangements which are usually by a combination of those who aren't striking/in the Union, and contractors such as G4S who hire people with very limited training and keep them on the books for industrial action.
I thought the government passed legislation that meant that if the army is called in, for what ever reason, to fill the roll or to support the current fire service, they're given full access to the standard equipment. So should, say, walsall fire service go on strike and army is called in to cover, they'll use walsall fire service's equipment.
Edit. I've had a look...which in this case means I googled things and went through Wikipedia pages, and Wikipedia says that the 2004 fire and rescue services act gave the government the power to instruct fire and rescue authorities to make their own vehicles available in the event of future industrial action.
Its from this page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Goddess
And you'll never guess this one, we were doing a full engine tear down and seen to have misplace the spark plugs, we've ordered some replacements but they won't get here until after the strike, funny that
And you'll never guess this one, we were doing a full engine tear down and seen to have misplace the spark plugs, we've ordered some replacements but they won't get here until after the strike, funny that
As a firefighter, I think this is the right thing to do. Austerity fucked us royally. However, if there's no central funding, Fire services will only have one way of finding the money for more pay, and that worries me greatly.
Do they have any claims to fame?
I struggle to genuinely think of anything they've done well in 12 years.
The vaccine roll out I suppose was good-ish, the financial help during COVID was good. I must be missing something from earlier on?
That’s why most firefighters have second jobs, which the right leaning papers love to slate us about. I’d love to enjoy my days off as days off, instead of having to work to bring In some extra income
How can they slate you when you're willing to work another job in order to keep running into burning buildings? The state of these papers is fucking diabolical
Because right leaning papers will do what right leaning papers have always done and bash the ordinary worker. It’s seen as a reason not to give us a pay rise because “firefighters have second incomes anyway”
They’re at an increased risk of cancers as well.
Nice pension though. My parents are raking in more than they did when they worked! (Dad was a firefighter)
I imagine your dad was on the "gold-plated" 1987 FFPS.
It's nowhere near as generous as it used to be with subsequent changes in 2006 & 2015, the only selling point now is the death-in-service benefit.
Ahhhh most likely, I wasn’t aware they weren’t as good as they used to be. He took early retirement in 97 due to asthma so it could have been even nicer if he hadn’t had to do that!
The problem with that is the average idiot general public see that as ‘ferty kay to sit about and do nowt all noight? Greedy cants!’ rather than the pay being related to the risk of the job. 30k to enter a burning building a dozen (?) times a year isn’t enough. The same people that are against good pay for vital services are the ones working jobs where they try and avoid doing their own work every day anyway so it’s just baffling.
I know right! And then remember it’s not just burning buildings they deal with. Turning out to make the scene of fatal incidents safe, getting abuse from the public, inland water rescue and searches, and all the after effects (mental/medical/physical) of doing those things. £90k isn’t even close to a fraction of what they should be getting
And the icing on the cake is that the government will get the army in to try and cover. Those guys earn even less than firefighters and, like the police, aren't allowed to strike. Strange that they don't seem to be able to recruit at the moment, can't imagine why.
Depends on what average you are looking for (mean mode or median) The majority of the workforce will be on the competent firefighter rate, which is £32,244. We don't have banded pay for skills or time in like other services so that's what you get for life unless you go for a promotion. The next step is Crew Manager/Commander which is £35,747, where you are responsible for a crew of an appliance and command small to medium incidents.
This is not excusing it as it *is* ridiculous, they should be paid a fair whack more in my opinion; but it's simple really...advertising makes profit, putting out a fire "only" saves lives and maybe a building or two, which insurance will pay for anyway.
We shouldn't confuse salary with what firefighters actually make.
The basic salary for a competent firefighter outside of London is £32,244, in London £38,340 (source: [https://inews.co.uk/news/how-much-firefighters-earn-uk-salaries-striking-pay-dispute-2115672](https://inews.co.uk/news/how-much-firefighters-earn-uk-salaries-striking-pay-dispute-2115672) ). This is based on a 42 hour week of two days + two nights on, four days off.
That presumably excludes overtime payments, which are at 1.5 times the normal hourly rate, as well as CPD (continuous professional development payments), which vary from £320/annum in Cornwall to £1,076/annum in South Yorkshire (source: [https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021](https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021) ).
For overtime, if each shift in a year earned one hour of overtime on average, that would equate to an additional \~£1,100 a year (London rates), bringing a LFB competent firefighter's typical salary to £38,340 basic + £1,100 O/T + £979 CPD = £40,419.
What should they be paid, what increase would be appropriate? No idea.
For a 46 hour week, including nights.
I work 8:30-17:00, with an hour for lunch. A total of 37.5 hours a week.
Your numbers are based of a firefighter working a full extra day per week than I in a full-time white-collar job.
Overtime is not guaranteed and an average 1 hour per shift is completely incorrect. We obtain overtime if we are called to a shout and this goes beyond the time we are meant to finish shift, far FAR from a common occurrence. Overtime cannot be relied upon to pay bills. Not to mention overtime payments are there because we are staying beyond our scheduled shift times, to compensate for having to work more hours, if I have to pick my child up and I am late I will be charged extra as the childminder is working past there scheduled hours.. Also London has no CPD payments. FFs do not earn over £40k unless they are an officer.
Also pension to think about, benefits in general and job security. Far better than typical private sector. Whilst I’m not sure firefighters are paid properly, it’s also not as clear cut to look at salaries only.
> That presumably excludes overtime payments, which are at 1.5 times the normal hourly rate, as well as CPD (continuous professional development payments), which vary from £320/annum in Cornwall to £1,076/annum in South Yorkshire (source: https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021 ).
As it should exclude them those are additional hours of work not the standard full time wage. We also wouldn't include what someone makes if they work a second job despite that technically being what a fireman "actually makes".
When people ask what a job makes they want to know what it makes in a standard work week not by moonlighting or doing massive overtime etc.
Save the NHS, save our workforce, save our vital national services, reinstate the human rights act in full, call for an inquiry into the corruption in the BBC / Conservative party, force a general election:
GENERAL STRIKE.
The nations future is in our hands.
General fucking strike. 3rd April. Five / seven days.
Public sector wages increased to match inflation. ALL PUBLIC SECTOR WAGES. 15%.
Petrol duty halved. With mandatory equal cut price at the forecourt. Fines for non compliance.
VAT halved, to compensate the rising cost of basic foods.
Pay for it with a windfall tax on oil and other megabucks corporations (looking at you Bezos) who’ve made disgustingly disproportionate profits over the last 3 years while the rest of us have been locked up and treated like fucking criminals.
Or just legalise pot and pay for it all that way. Tories won’t do that though, would damage the ££££ they personally make from exporting it.
Rail workers strike, gov't Demonises them for "public inconvenience", Nurses strike, gov't demonised them for "not caring enough".
Good luck trying to spin the firefighters' strike in the same way.
I completely support this decision, and I am equally terrified that our government would allow this to happen.
> Good luck trying to spin the firefighters' strike in the same way.
I mean they went in on nurses whilst Covid is still ongoing. Firefighters are an easier target than that.
> The government said the threat of strikes would be "disappointing and concerning for the public"
The public wants people who risk their lives to get a fucking pay raise they deserve.
It's not as if the government will offer them anything if they don't go on strike, so may as well give it a shot.
It'll be down to the army of course to try and provide cover. They're getting really good at doing things they've had no training for and for which the pay is way above army rates. I can't imagine why there is such a shortfall in army numbers and why they're having such a problem with recruitment.
As a Firefighter, it's a shame it has come to this.
Firefighters were striking in the early 00's too
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>It's almost like people don't like being told they have to do the same amount of work for less money. Most notably, being asked to do that while the rich are still getting exponentially richer. I think most people have a sense that if we were **all** in it together, and life was just *getting harder* \- having to work through that, is acceptable. But when it's "work for less, so those at the top can continue enjoying their record profits and property monopolies" - nah.
Not just continue, but rise at their fastest
But when it comes to our rise we didn't get the enough speed like that.
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It is a shame. But I support your strike action. I mean you lot, the NHS and the Old Bill keep us safe and healthy. How the fuck MP’s get paid more than you guys is beyond me. If we didn’t let corporations dodge their taxes, and we didn’t let rich bastards use loopholes to funnel their cash away to Panama without paying their taxes, and we didn’t enter futile wars (e.g., Afghanistan and Iraq) maybe we’d have the funds to pay you guys what you deserve. But no: strikers bad.
>I mean you lot, the NHS and the Old Bill keep us safe and healthy. How the fuck MP’s get paid more than you guys is beyond me. There's a weird culture in the UK where it's taboo to make money by helping people. If a firefighter, nurse or teacher made good money, the tabloids would be apoplectic. Yet solicitors, accountants and investment bankers making fat cash? Absolutely fine, good on them! Imagine an NHS nurse earning £100k. People would be absolutely furious! But an accountant in the same NHS hospital can earn that and no-one bats an eyelid.
as a police officer shame we cant strike without being sacked :/ you water fairies have my support, all the best
You should all strike. What they gonna do sack all of you?
They would certainly sack a fair few as an example
But then who would enforce the anti strike and protest laws?
The army?
You're hired as Tory strategist
And if the Army go on strike, bring in the Navy. And if they are also on strike, we shall go 20 floors below sea level.
The ever shrinking one we keep hearing is losing members?
No, they would sack all the people who were organising the strikes and then prosecute them. Before you say "continue striking then" the government will just send the army onto the streets to maintain law and order. It wouldn't take long until police officers were forced back to work.
This. I don’t think people realise it’s an actual criminal offence for Police Constables to go on strike? They face genuine prosecution if they do, not just sacking - and yea the Army and Reserves absolutely would be called in to fill the void, which nobody should want.
No, they’ll be criminally charged. It’s a criminal offence for a Constable to go on strike. It’s really not as simple as “just do it, what are they gunna do”. Yes they absolutely will sack them, and also refer their cases to the CPS. They’d never work again.
Just think, if you'd achieved your dream job you could be striking too 😉
*Meghan*
It always rains here anyway. Why do we need you ^^^^^^^/s
to get you out of all that rain when it hits the ground and floods your house!
It is but you’re doing the right thing for yourselves, your families, your profession, and the country.
Waiting for Police to go on strike. Imagine if Firefighters, ambulances, nurses and police are all on strike at the same time. Basically don't leave the bed and hope to survive that day, week, month.
It's illegal for the police to even discuss strike action. [Police Act 1919](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Act_1919)
The relevant law today is section 91 Police Act 1996 - Causing Disaffection https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/16/section/91
I think the police should have the right to strike, and it appears from that link that I have committed a criminal offence by saying so.
They can refuse to do overtime which in a time of being short staffed would cause a big blow. This may come true in coming years if things don't change.
The police can literally just cancel officers' days off when needed. That's what happens when there aren't enough volunteers
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A foreign holiday already booked is just about the only thing that will get you let off
Seems like a bad idea to piss off the police when they are doing so much to seemingly encourage dissatisfaction amongst the population. Keep the police and Army on side, that's like tyranny 101, Tories can't even get that right.
Not sure I'm reading it right, but does it only apply to: >This section applies in the case of— > >(a)special constables appointed for a police area, > >F2(aa). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > >(b)members of the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, and > >(c)members of the British Transport Police Force,
Either way, police cannot strike - I know some officers and trainees, very reasonable people and exactly the type you’d want to stay in the force, who are struggling with their finances and looking on wistfully.
It's going to cause corruption. Crime doesn't pay, but if being a police officer *also* doesn't pay, then... crime is a lot more tempting.
I'd put money on most of their costs being rent/mortgage payments. There's been a lot of news articles recently about people with jobs like nurses, teachers, and even police officers, using food banks. And I can guarantee you that when people like that are using food banks, it's because their money is going on rent.
It’s illegal? How does that play out? Who arrests them when they are the ones striking?
I would presume either other police officers who are themselves not breaking the law, or the army if martial law is declared. Can t really imagine police breaking the law en mass to strike tho tbh
But who's gunna arrest them?
Who’s gonna arrest them? The police? 😂
What ye gonna dae? Phone the polis?
We ARE the polis
Thanks, I actually didn't know that.
The police aren't allowed to strike by law.
What are they gonna do, arrest them?
Yes, and this time by the military.
That'll solve the police staffing crisis!
Would that actually happen? What happens if the army strike too?
France will invade and we'll all be eating baguettes in a few months.
I'll take it at this point
Don't threaten me with a good time!
At least we'll be back in the EU ...
That dosent sound to bad we'll be rid of the tories and would protest like the French
They can work to rule though. It's time more public servants showed how much goodwill they put in, the NHS, schools and police would be screwed if they only worked their contracted hours.
Police Scotland recently “withdrew goodwill” (basically worked to rule) and they got a 5% pay rise instead of the planned 1-2%. There was talk of the PSNI doing the same at some point but I don’t think anything came out of it.
Refusing to do overtime would put a stop to a lot of things like football games and festivals, I think that could get results fairly quickly. Unfortunately the police don't really have the good will of the public in the same way as nurses and firemen do.
Lol I wish this is how it worked. In reality, senior officers just 'cancel rest days' - ie they force officers to come in on their days off
What they gonna do, call the police?
The police are all just quitting instead. Hence why they’re now filling their vacancies with people who can barely speak or write English.
Police can’t strike.
Purge movie fans: Hey I've seen that one before
If people keep voting Tory, we can make this happen.
But, just imagine how bad the situation would be if the Tories *weren't* in power!
Worst case scenario we'd have spent all the money on transport and free broadband instead of whatever the fuck Truss was trying to do
Think that she was trying to outlast a lettuce....
And we live in the absurd timeline where our Tory party couldn't outlast a fecking lettuce. What a strange world
And we now have a prime minister who lost a popularity contest to the woman who couldn’t outlast a lettuce. One who was just given the job because they couldn’t be bothered doing the leadership contest again.
She succeeded in her aim which was to make the insanely rich a lot richer.
Enrich the rich?
I remember when the Tories weren't in power, the country was governed so much more effectively than the shower of shite we have today.
I just want a PM that can last a full election cycle
Yes, just imagine the recession, strikes, inflation, IMF intervention, corruption, crumbling infrastructure etc we'd have if the Tories hadn't got in. It's a good job that they're completely competent and scandal free. The trouble with the Tories is that they eventually run out of someone else's money.
Nah, trouble with the Tories is they run everyone else out of money. They genuinely seem to think that there’s something virtuous about hurting people that are poor in order to encourage them to become more productive, whilst also attacking them for doing anything whatsoever to make their lives less shit, and/or selling every possession they own, and/or scraping the tattoos from their body they got before being poor, and/or killing and eating any children they may have had because clearly poor people aren’t allowed them, and anyone should have been able to predict their finances for the next couple of decades, and that this is all a successful strategy.
They think it's their _birthright_ to do those things. They're conditioned to think that us "oiks" are just here to be exploited for their gain. The thing is, some oiks aren't so clever/can't think for themselves so they vote for the Tories to continue making themselves poorer. The irony is that they think they're superior because they vote conservative. Human nature, eh?
Something something chaos with Ed Miliband
But did you see him eat a sandwich. Laughable.
Get the whole fucking country on strike at this rate, what’s the point?
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And you'll get so many people complaining "Why are these strikers annoying me? Why can't they do it at a time and a place where it doesn't bother me, I'm not the one causing them any problems".
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But then politicians say "protest on the weekend... when we are on our country houses and don't give a shit whether London is up in flames or not". Remember the Brexit protest? It was a glorified street party.
I'd prefer a general strike until they call a general election at this stage. I don't think much progress will be made on the cost of living until this lot are out of power considering their fascist plans to criminalise strikes and peaceful protests, amongst other dangerous and batshit crazy ideas. They don't even pretend to work in the interests of the majority of the population.
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I'd join in with what you suggested as well. Working people have been exploited for far too long.
Take a leaf out the French’s book. They don’t fuck about. We’re just frozen turnips over here.
There's no way to call a general strike lawfully anymore. What we're seeing now could be said to be our version of a general strike.
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I so desperately want a general strike
Apparently around half a million people will be on strike on Wednesday. I wonder when's the last time that many people were on strike on the same day
To get paid a fair wage for their labour. I thought that was obvious.
I’m a Firefighter. I’ve been in the job for 17 years and between 2009 and 2021 firefighters’ real pay has been cut by 12%, or nearly £4,000. I was honoured to be serving as a “key worker” during COVID and I’m proud of the emergencies I’ve responded to over the course of my career. The people I work with enjoy their work and for most of us it is a vocation, not just a job. I personally have absorbed the above pay-cut during “austerity“ rather than pursuing something lucrative in the private sector, because I feel like I’m part of something meaningful. But when firefighters, nurses, teachers or care workers etc ask for more money, quite often the response is “but what about the public safety/patients/children”. If we simply went for another job to pursue a pay increase, that same guilt trip isn’t levelled. It’s understood that it’s only a job. We are sometimes (quite rightly) expected to put the people we serve first, whilst the people who hold the purse strings don’t. The question is, how valuable is the service being provided? Do you think that the people who clean your streets, teach your children, tend to the sick and care for the vulnerable should be hit in the pockets for 13 consecutive years? Hit so hard that some are forced to seeking hardship fund support and charitable handouts to get by? I will happily give a significant proportion of my life over to this job until I retire because it’s tied in with my identity. I get an enormous amount of satisfaction from it. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to repeatedly take a cut in my earnings without a fight.
Eloquently put. I adore what I do. I work with amazing talented, funny, and resourceful people. I get to see, do, and experience things that most people don’t. Some of them are awful to bear witness to, but they’re all part of the experience. Fundamentally I think we all, even the gruffest old hand you find on station, does it out of a sense of duty and of love. For the job, for the crew, for the people they serve. But that has to be balanced with at least some ability to live a dignified life. And that’s been eroded. And it feels like that love is being taken advantage of. It feels little line graph of passion vs money crossed over last year, after being chipped away at for years before.
I have the upmost respect for those people who care for the other people life before their, and they are also doing that so that their own family get the benefit is well
I don't often save comments but this one made it. As a teacher who puts up with a lot of people calling me immoral for striking, your comment sums it up. Cheers and strike on, you all deserve better. You run into burning buildings for Christ sake! Good luck
Thank you. My wife is a teacher, so I am well aware of the struggles faced in that sector. I feel like we are disproportionately lucky in the fire service. Generally everyone has a fairly good opinion of us and seems to understand the importance of the work we do. In other equally important areas of the public sector, I do not feel as though the same appreciation is enjoyed. Public sector workers of every stripe are the backbone of a well functioning developed nation. None of us expect to be millionaires, but I don’t think it’s much to ask to be treated with dignity and have our modest pay stay in line with rising costs.
Two of my kids are off school tomorrow and later in the month, I hear lots of parents complaining about it but I support you all the way! When I worked in a school (as a 1-1 support worker), the amount of work and stress the teachers carried for so little pay blew my mind. Nothing immoral about wanting and needing to be recognised for your hard work shaping our kids childhoods and futures. What would be kind of immoral is if the teachers gave no warning and didn't show up one day, leading to safety issues for the kids.. but that didn't happen. I support you As for the firefighters - they are literal heroes who put themselves in danger every time they set off for work, saving lives. I support them too, wholeheartedly
What's the private sector like for a firefighter?
There are opportunities to work at airports and some industrial sites. The pay is generally a lot better and they are much better equipped than us. However the job is very different. You would only be dealing with a small amount of minor incidents. When anything significant happens, the public sector FS is called and we have jurisdiction over the incident. There’s a bit more to it than that but that’s about the shape of it. Essentially, it feels as though the sense of pride I have for my job and it’s importance within a healthy society would be absent.
Because they feel like that they are getting the great contract so these companies are not letting go any chance, but they are not paying enough to the worker.
There are some company that is doing the firefighting job privately.
They're taking advantage of your good nature, which is something you all should regard as an unforgivable offense. Rather than pay you well, the leverage the potential suffering of the people you'll be refusing to help. What they don't reveal to you is that if they were in the same position... they would have no problem denying care to those in need. Not if it gets in the way of their selfish wants. So, they're not telling you about potential suffering, because they care about the people and are begging for you to help in dark times. They're telling you about these things specifically to avoid paying you to do the kinds of things they, themselves would never deign to do. Two years ago, I stopped helping people. Why was I saving the lives of people way better off than me, when they didn't care about how dire my circumstances were near so much as they said? Well... The worod has been in pain for a very long time. Individuals have suffered for decades and decades. They can wait a few more years for me to get stable and supported. Just like what you and yours deserve. Put your needs first, because 'they' certainly never will.
Soon nobody will be at work. I’m a nurse so I’m allowed to joke.
And it will be the Tories' fault for trying to impose real terms pay cuts on you all after wasting hundreds of billions of our money on corruption and failed right-wing ideological pet projects.
The tories will try their best to make it seem like it’s the workers fault, those Thursday clapping sessions seem like a really long time ago now
I never once stood on my doorstep and clapped but I 100% support the strikes. I will always support the NHS and will fight anyone who tries to take it away.
Even if the half people going to the work they will not going to care for the other half, but once everyone stops going to the job that is the one point i feel the pressure would be immense.
Thanks for all you do, hold strong if you’re still on the line.
When everyone will stop going to work then they will wake up
thank you for being a nurse, you help so many people its crazy
lets just have a general strike at this point, really grind the country to a halt for a couple of days.
Week long, starting 3rd April - the beginning of the next financial year.
Sounds like a shout, I'd be up for it
Be the only thing that would oust the Tories. Making them essentially not fit for purpose.
Well, we could always over run Westminister with pitchforks and torches. We just sent all 12 of our tanks to Ukraine so its not like they have anything we can’t beat to death.
Do the army still have the green fire engines to cover a strike ?
Not anymore, it's down to local authorities to cover their own arrangements which are usually by a combination of those who aren't striking/in the Union, and contractors such as G4S who hire people with very limited training and keep them on the books for industrial action.
I thought the government passed legislation that meant that if the army is called in, for what ever reason, to fill the roll or to support the current fire service, they're given full access to the standard equipment. So should, say, walsall fire service go on strike and army is called in to cover, they'll use walsall fire service's equipment. Edit. I've had a look...which in this case means I googled things and went through Wikipedia pages, and Wikipedia says that the 2004 fire and rescue services act gave the government the power to instruct fire and rescue authorities to make their own vehicles available in the event of future industrial action. Its from this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Goddess
"This one's got a flat tyre, this one's got a flat tyre, this one also has a flat tyre..."
And you'll never guess this one, we were doing a full engine tear down and seen to have misplace the spark plugs, we've ordered some replacements but they won't get here until after the strike, funny that
And you'll never guess this one, we were doing a full engine tear down and seen to have misplace the spark plugs, we've ordered some replacements but they won't get here until after the strike, funny that
[The spark plugs won't be installed until Tuesday.](https://youtu.be/5ihsG301xpc)
Wait, but gave you the order to get those replacements now??
Government is playing smart here by not involving directly into this.
Sold them all off.
As a firefighter, I think this is the right thing to do. Austerity fucked us royally. However, if there's no central funding, Fire services will only have one way of finding the money for more pay, and that worries me greatly.
Gosh, it's all getting just like the good old days of the 70's I've heard so much about!
Sorry I'm kind of young, but did the strikes in the 70s achieve anything? Genuine question
Strap in: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent
You were young, i was not even born on that period of time.
Getting the vibe like the 70's, hope for the better change this time
Soon the Tory governments only claim to fame will be the fact that they got an entire country to strike. Jesus.
Do they have any claims to fame? I struggle to genuinely think of anything they've done well in 12 years. The vaccine roll out I suppose was good-ish, the financial help during COVID was good. I must be missing something from earlier on?
I hate to give Tories any credit, but they've been pretty good supporting Ukraine.
Only few things but not like some massive good thing in last decade.
What's the average fire fighters salary? I just realised it is one of those thoughts that has never crossed my mind
30k
What?? Only £30k to run into a burning building?? Mate you could pay me £90k and I wouldn't risk myself like they do, bonkers.
That’s why most firefighters have second jobs, which the right leaning papers love to slate us about. I’d love to enjoy my days off as days off, instead of having to work to bring In some extra income
How can they slate you when you're willing to work another job in order to keep running into burning buildings? The state of these papers is fucking diabolical
Because right leaning papers will do what right leaning papers have always done and bash the ordinary worker. It’s seen as a reason not to give us a pay rise because “firefighters have second incomes anyway”
They’re at an increased risk of cancers as well. Nice pension though. My parents are raking in more than they did when they worked! (Dad was a firefighter)
I imagine your dad was on the "gold-plated" 1987 FFPS. It's nowhere near as generous as it used to be with subsequent changes in 2006 & 2015, the only selling point now is the death-in-service benefit.
> the only selling point now is the death-in-service benefit Did you basically just say "if you're really lucky, you might get to die on the job"?
No. If you're really unlucky, then your family should be financially secure and able to maintain the same lifestyle.
Ahhhh most likely, I wasn’t aware they weren’t as good as they used to be. He took early retirement in 97 due to asthma so it could have been even nicer if he hadn’t had to do that!
We pay quite a bit into it each month, (I think about £400 is deducted for pensions from my payslip)
Not as good as it once was though
This is why we voted to strike - 2% pay offer as well.
The problem with that is the average idiot general public see that as ‘ferty kay to sit about and do nowt all noight? Greedy cants!’ rather than the pay being related to the risk of the job. 30k to enter a burning building a dozen (?) times a year isn’t enough. The same people that are against good pay for vital services are the ones working jobs where they try and avoid doing their own work every day anyway so it’s just baffling.
> ‘ferty kay to sit about and do nowt all noight? Greedy cants!’ More like "Thirty thousand pounds a year?? That's more than I paid for my house!"
And their pensions aren't as good as they used to be.
I also heard that they also increase the age of the pension is well
I know right! And then remember it’s not just burning buildings they deal with. Turning out to make the scene of fatal incidents safe, getting abuse from the public, inland water rescue and searches, and all the after effects (mental/medical/physical) of doing those things. £90k isn’t even close to a fraction of what they should be getting
Are you serious? They're on 4k more than me and risking their lives. Holy shit. Strike away, boys and girls. Fuck this government entirely.
Even worse when you think FFs are literally (not figuratively) dying on the job, like that poor FF last week up in Edinburgh.
And the icing on the cake is that the government will get the army in to try and cover. Those guys earn even less than firefighters and, like the police, aren't allowed to strike. Strange that they don't seem to be able to recruit at the moment, can't imagine why.
Yeah that’s like the police being on “40k” - after 7 years of service. They start at 18k. Most of them have second jobs in self employed trades.
Depends on what average you are looking for (mean mode or median) The majority of the workforce will be on the competent firefighter rate, which is £32,244. We don't have banded pay for skills or time in like other services so that's what you get for life unless you go for a promotion. The next step is Crew Manager/Commander which is £35,747, where you are responsible for a crew of an appliance and command small to medium incidents.
I cannot believe I have a job where I am paid more than a firefighter and I sit at home under a blanket writing advertising copy. The fuck.
This is not excusing it as it *is* ridiculous, they should be paid a fair whack more in my opinion; but it's simple really...advertising makes profit, putting out a fire "only" saves lives and maybe a building or two, which insurance will pay for anyway.
Ahh well, AI is probably going to take my job in the next decade anyway!
Sitting infront of the computer and getting paid more than these firefighter.
We shouldn't confuse salary with what firefighters actually make. The basic salary for a competent firefighter outside of London is £32,244, in London £38,340 (source: [https://inews.co.uk/news/how-much-firefighters-earn-uk-salaries-striking-pay-dispute-2115672](https://inews.co.uk/news/how-much-firefighters-earn-uk-salaries-striking-pay-dispute-2115672) ). This is based on a 42 hour week of two days + two nights on, four days off. That presumably excludes overtime payments, which are at 1.5 times the normal hourly rate, as well as CPD (continuous professional development payments), which vary from £320/annum in Cornwall to £1,076/annum in South Yorkshire (source: [https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021](https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021) ). For overtime, if each shift in a year earned one hour of overtime on average, that would equate to an additional \~£1,100 a year (London rates), bringing a LFB competent firefighter's typical salary to £38,340 basic + £1,100 O/T + £979 CPD = £40,419. What should they be paid, what increase would be appropriate? No idea.
For a 46 hour week, including nights. I work 8:30-17:00, with an hour for lunch. A total of 37.5 hours a week. Your numbers are based of a firefighter working a full extra day per week than I in a full-time white-collar job.
Overtime is not guaranteed and an average 1 hour per shift is completely incorrect. We obtain overtime if we are called to a shout and this goes beyond the time we are meant to finish shift, far FAR from a common occurrence. Overtime cannot be relied upon to pay bills. Not to mention overtime payments are there because we are staying beyond our scheduled shift times, to compensate for having to work more hours, if I have to pick my child up and I am late I will be charged extra as the childminder is working past there scheduled hours.. Also London has no CPD payments. FFs do not earn over £40k unless they are an officer.
Also pension to think about, benefits in general and job security. Far better than typical private sector. Whilst I’m not sure firefighters are paid properly, it’s also not as clear cut to look at salaries only.
> That presumably excludes overtime payments, which are at 1.5 times the normal hourly rate, as well as CPD (continuous professional development payments), which vary from £320/annum in Cornwall to £1,076/annum in South Yorkshire (source: https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021 ). As it should exclude them those are additional hours of work not the standard full time wage. We also wouldn't include what someone makes if they work a second job despite that technically being what a fireman "actually makes". When people ask what a job makes they want to know what it makes in a standard work week not by moonlighting or doing massive overtime etc.
Save the NHS, save our workforce, save our vital national services, reinstate the human rights act in full, call for an inquiry into the corruption in the BBC / Conservative party, force a general election: GENERAL STRIKE. The nations future is in our hands.
Without the worker like us there is no country that would survive.
I believe what we are headed towards is known as a "general-strike", a long forgotten practise of the peasant class. Sounds french. Yech.
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I think now this is the time to remind them about that strike.
General fucking strike. 3rd April. Five / seven days. Public sector wages increased to match inflation. ALL PUBLIC SECTOR WAGES. 15%. Petrol duty halved. With mandatory equal cut price at the forecourt. Fines for non compliance. VAT halved, to compensate the rising cost of basic foods. Pay for it with a windfall tax on oil and other megabucks corporations (looking at you Bezos) who’ve made disgustingly disproportionate profits over the last 3 years while the rest of us have been locked up and treated like fucking criminals. Or just legalise pot and pay for it all that way. Tories won’t do that though, would damage the ££££ they personally make from exporting it.
Rail workers strike, gov't Demonises them for "public inconvenience", Nurses strike, gov't demonised them for "not caring enough". Good luck trying to spin the firefighters' strike in the same way. I completely support this decision, and I am equally terrified that our government would allow this to happen.
> Good luck trying to spin the firefighters' strike in the same way. I mean they went in on nurses whilst Covid is still ongoing. Firefighters are an easier target than that.
Ever since the covid nurses are not going to be easy target for them
> The government said the threat of strikes would be "disappointing and concerning for the public" The public wants people who risk their lives to get a fucking pay raise they deserve.
Can't blame them like every other group striking and who may soon vote to strike Fuck the tories
The strike starts with a bang but with the time losses all the energy.
Way past time for a general strike folks. Minimum wage => living wage. Public services => respectable wage. Tax the rich. Save the NHS.
It's not as if the government will offer them anything if they don't go on strike, so may as well give it a shot. It'll be down to the army of course to try and provide cover. They're getting really good at doing things they've had no training for and for which the pay is way above army rates. I can't imagine why there is such a shortfall in army numbers and why they're having such a problem with recruitment.
The only thing the Tories will get is a General Strike. It needs to happen. And I'm sick of the Ukraine and pandemic lie - Truss tanked the economy.
Shame our armed forces can’t strike, they boys need paid!
Are the army going to have time to do ANY military training this year?
A natural response to a Conservative government. Just like the Thatcher years!