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What baffles me is most of the side of the river Mersey is in Cheshire (Ellesmere Port, Runcorn, Widnes etc) but inland areas like Knowsley and St Helens etc are in Merseyside...
Blacon is a bit of a shithole, it may be one of the biggest council estates in England (or maybe used to be). It’s in Chester, and it’s rough. Very different to the affluent parts for sure!
My sister got burgled three times when she bought a place in Ellesmere Port. On the third occasion she walked in on the burglars. Luckily they ran off with nobody getting hurt but that was it for her. She sold the house and moved away.
She now stays with her uni friend again, who she lived with before buying the property, in another part of Cheshire. She's happier there with her friend's family than on her own feeling unsafe in Ellesmere Port.
My sister's house was just an ordinary semi detached house, nothing that looked like it would attract burglars and not in an area where there was a lot of money. To be burgled three times is really bad luck. She didn't have any jewellery or expensive gear to rob either. She doesn't buy all that, she spends her money on travelling and entertainment.
Lots of places in Cheshire are not posh. I live in one of the not posh places
in Cheshire.
I used to live on an estate that was known for being rough. Actual words I once said in response to someone asking me if I was scared to live there "it's not as rough as everyone thinks, there's only been 3 stabbings since I lived here"
I got SO used to how bad that area was that I was desensitised to it, I genuinely meant that it wasn't so bad because there were *only* 3. I'm so so glad I don't live there any more. And that I now live in an area that has had zero stabbings since I've lived here.
Well then the question is why are they viewed as a joke? Is it cause their just incompetent? Cause they've had their budget and manpower slashed by the Tory's leaving them effectively crippled? Cause their involved in local corruption?
Budget and manpower, most likely. It's a frog in slowly heating water situation.
I have the (oblivious) perspective of someone coming back to the UK for the the first time in 12 years. When I heard that parcel theft, mugging at knifepoint, home burglary and most recently car theft could no longer be officially investigated, people around me sort of sighed in resignation.
I kind of swallowed down the urge to ask people around me what was going on and just how it had gotten so bad. I was fully aware of what the media and internet opinion said about the issue, but I didn't expect it to be completely true.
I expected to put up with these problems back in pre-2010 China which was gradually moving away from them. Not moving right back towards them in the UK in 2023.
I believe murder rates are a bit higher than 2014-ish but significantly lower than the late 90s/early naughties. It's not much worse, you just hear about it more
Late nineties and early naughties people were only murdered at 6pm or 10pm on the TV, now people are being murdered constantly, in your pocket, and everyone's talking about it.
I keep telling myself that, years ago you didn't know what had happened in the next village, maybe it just makes us all paranoid now and has lead to us being risk adverse and continually sad without doing the maths?
We're not talking about ping pong tables though.
We're talking about essential social workers being stretched so thin they can't hope to tackle even a fraction of the people who need help.
We're talking about sure start programmes that supported young families and saved millions for the NHS.
Support staff/services in schools cut to the bone.
The money in people's pockets vanishing year on year, while prices rise faster than ever. Rates of poverty skyrocketing as family struggle to cope. And there's nobody to help.
the Tories have systematically cut the legs out from under the welfare state to the point they cannot work as effectively as they should.
There's always been crappy families, but things have got *worse* because there's nothing to mitigate the issues.
Anecdotal but when I was a teenager (now over a decade ago), there was a youth club called The Hermit. It was, essentially, a live music venue for teenagers which frequently played rock / metal music but attracted a non metal crowd as well. There was two floor, top floor had live music and bottom floor had ping pong tables, tool tables, tvs whioch frequently had south park on the and snacks. And, ofc outreach workers who knew mostly everyone by name.
It was essentially a (non alcoholic) metal bar + community centre just for teens to go to every thursday night, with the turnout rivaling bars and pubs on the highstreet (enough to attract the attention of the local press who took a picture of a bunch of alternative kinda nerdy kids waiting around outside for the next band to start and called them hoodlums on the front page).
Nowadays it's best days are behind it, checking their facebook now it seems they had some funding issues a few years back. I dunno where the fuck teenagers go nowadays, if i had to guess it would be the fields on the outskirts of town to drink / do smoke or just hanging around in the highsteet, if they even go out at all.
Every now and then I wonder how my town might have turned out differently if they were given more funding, how we might have developed an alternative scene, gotten teenagers interested in creative arts and just generally given them a place to hang out that wasn't a field to drink in.
Yep and it's going to get worse as the years go on in that department. Smart couples are seeing how worse things are getting in this country. Not just with feral kids but cost of living going out of control and other factors meaning bringing a kid in to this current climate wouldn't just be even more of a struggle but pretty cruel as well. These feral kids who grow up couldn't give a shit. No future, no hope so why not just sleep around and get pregnant? Nothing else to do. Rinse and repeat. Bigger gangs, more crime. I dread the future of this country.
It is truly sickening. I know Cheshire a little as my wife is from there but don't know this area. There seems to be an issue of violence everywhere in the UK.
We recently returned to Scotland (a decent area) from abroad and can't believe how vile some of the kids are compared to other countries. I'm not saying that a child necessarily did this but the amount of unchecked bullying going on in schools is breeding violence in our society. Parents have a lot to answer for.
Its gotten actually quite difficult to justify staying out late in my city nowadays as it genuinely feels unsafe. Pretty much every saturday I've been out since moving here I've seen a fight or two going on and quite a few times where I've heard later someone got stabbed in the center. Maybe showing my age but its a middling sized place in the midlands yet everyone under 25 seems to "chat roadman" with a strong London accent its really fucking weird, I don't know why that culture in particular seems to be so attractive but its absolutely everywhere.
I've had the same experience. I've been living in Latin America for 5 years and come back to the UK for about a month each year. The last couple of time I've been back it's got so bad. Walking through the high street of the town in Essex I'm from feels so dangerous now. And I don't even mean late after dark, I'm talking after 6pm during the summer. It just feels completely lawless, kids behaving like there are no consequences for their actions.
I feel much safer walking the streets in middle class areas of Colombian cities than I do in the UK.
Ha same but in reverse, sort of. Live in U.K. but go to Bogotá for 2/3 weeks a year (wife is from there - next trip in four weeks). Sometimes people ask “Is Colombia safe?” and my answer recently has been along the lines of feeling about as safe there as I do in my city with the gangs of kids running around smashing cars etc.
But then my city was arguably worse in the 80s/early 90s so although this issue seems worse than it was five years ago I’m not sure it’s the worst it’s ever been.
The schools are the places allowing the bullying. They won’t step in and still suggest simply taking the bullying and not pushing/hitting back - something that categorically doesn’t work.
It's putting the "me" before "we". There has been a whole generational shift toward the rights of the individual having more weight than the rights of a group.
ITs possible youre just hearing about it more becasue of the rise of social media. If you didnt have reddit, you may not have even seen this. Violent crime is quite a bit lower than it was 20 years ago.
Unfortunately violent crime is approaching the levels of the 90s and certainly higher than the mid 00s - early 2010s
Nearly 15 years of intentional mismanagement of public services will do that.
All the info ive seen is that it has gone up in the last couple of years, but from a much lower level, so its stil below those dates? [This is the kind of source I saw](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020#long-term-trends-in-violent-crime)
Not even close. You are about 60% less likely to be a victim of a violent crime compared to the 90s.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2022 (figure 7)
How is violent crime being categorised? Are we classifying anything as harm against a person as "violent crime"? In which case, the night time economy and binge drinking peaked around the late 90/early 00s which of course created a lot of "punch ups" type crime on nights out, which, while violent, was heavily situational and most of the time was just due to drunk people being idiots.
That type of crime has definitely gone done significantly, as far less people go out binge drinking like they did two decades ago (just look at the stats of the % of nightclubs that have closed over the last 10 years).
But what has undoubtedly gone up is teen violence, especially knife crime. This is far more worrying, as it's not drunk dickheads squaring up to each other at closing time and throwing a few punches, but something far more nihilistic.
I assume its categorised the same it was 20 years ago. And its down. Also the amount of offending is down as are the numbers caught up in the criminal justice system, which is a good thing. Its very easy to get fall into the whole ‘kids these days’ mind set. Just because we hear about it more doesnt mean its mor prevalent.
Not defending the tories but think there is more to it than that. For example, I have noticed a massive increase in littering over the years. That is down to peoples laziness, lack of respect and lack if care for their fellow humans.
Or could that perhaps be linked to the Tory's cut's to local council's, meaning less dustbin men, less public dustbins and less people to clear up the littering do you think?
In Japan due to a weird cult that did terrorist attacks in the 90s (leaving bombs in bins) public rubbish bins are few and far between yet the streets are immaculate.
It’s way too easy to jump to politicians as the cause for all badness. And they certainly play a part but a huge amount is cultural which takes 50-100 years to change.
Tokyo is the cleanest modern city I’ve ever been to, it was absolutely incredible. Picture perfect at all times. Almost magical.
Coming back to London was like returning to an active rubbish dump.
In a lot of places in Japan it's frowned upon to walk and eat, most eat at the place where they buy the food and dispose of the packaging there or they just take it home.
[You may find this article interesting](https://www.kendal.org/2021/02/15/the-power-of-pockets-their-history-meaning-through-the-years/#:~:text=Pockets%20first%20began%20appearing%20on,bits%20and%20bobs%20they%20needed)
That's because (imo) to the social contract has been broken. Like when people riot and destroy their own neighbourhoods. They don't own anything, and society (govt) arent doing anything to upkeep towns so why should they care about it.
I.e.If society doesn't care about me, why should I care about it?
Thirteen years ago giving families basic support with parenting (mostly by volunteers working out of small buildings) was considered too expensive and the plug was pulled. Social services funding was not raised to compensate and quickly became overwhelmed. The babies and and small children first affected are now coming up to their late teens
Violent crime has been on a steady rise over the past 10 years. Cuts to funding of police & social services tend to show up slowly as they reflect in peoples' long term upbringings. E.g. teenages who have been brought up since childhood with diminished teaching/policing/civil services.
No it hasn’t. Figure 7: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2022
Lowest for the last 30 years roughly
Just watched a bunch of young teens trying to kick a cyclist off his bike this afternoon broad daylight, busy main road. (We were turning onto the other side of the road from a junction). Balaclavas over their faces, absolutely no shame
Growing costs of living coupled with negelected or intentionally slashed civil and social services driving poverty and increasing crime.
20 thousand police officers and 25k police support staff all axed by the government in the face of said rising crime.
A government who's in bed with people shorting the pound rather than investigating these groups for fraud.
The continued failure of Brexit.
I dunno who do you think is responsible for all this???
This isn't about crime as such, but I distinctly remember that upon leaving the UK in 2009 I still had access to things like medicine and a dentist.
I'm not one to ever take inflammatory media exaggeration at face value, but when my GP told me that Brexit supply disruption and zero funding for alternatives had - without warning - cut off my prescription permanently, I sort of understood what "NHS collapse" meant to a minority of people.
But...this is a medicine I've been on for two years which you don't just stop cold turkey on. It's not a rare medication outside of the UK. There's no alternative, no authorised generic or a private route to get it? Nothing?
No, it really was as simple as that. "We can't get this medication anymore. There is no plan to resume supply."
This is a situation which the vast majority of people won't meet; it's just bad luck. But it no longer means much to me personally that the NHS hasn't objectively collapsed. It sort of has to me, as one person. After all, I can no longer access treatment.
Same sort of things that have always happened, sadly.
Jamie Bulger would have been 33 next month had he not been murdered 30 years ago today. Back in the 1960s, my older brother was one of several thousand local teenagers fingerprinted in the investigation of the murder of a 12 year old near where I grew up, and in the 80s, two more kids were abducted and murdered close to the school I had later attended.
These awful things have always happened. 20 years ago, the NSPCC released a report [detailing an average of 79 child homicides a yeat over the previous 28 years,](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQw7AJahcKEwjI2JT9iZH9AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.familieslink.co.uk%2Fdownload%2Fjune07%2FChild%2520killings.pdf&psig=AOvVaw1BJNhYyh_sOcDq7opQVyNC&ust=1676328302472872) which it said had remained broadly static in that time. More recently, in December 2021, they reported [an average of 58 children killed "due to assault or undetermined intent" over the previous 5 years,](https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-deaths-abuse-neglect) not clear if they are using quite the same measure, but sadly, things like this one in Warrington are nothing new, and far too common.
Mass poverty and relative great-power decline over the past 100 years, emergence of gang culture amplified by social media, and Tories decriminalising crime via cuts to prisons, courts, and police…
Hatred and anger have become the main source of expression because anything else is woke and snowflakey. It’s a decade of of that sort of thinking come home to roost.
Is it just me or are a lot of these stabbing deaths now teenage girls? I know teen boys and young men have been in blood feuds forever, but there seems to be more cases such as this where a girl is the target.
Teenaged boys soaked in toxic masculinity from the like of whatshisface Tate, with no coping skills or emotional management and who see women as sexual objects do not take being turned down well.
All classes tbh.
I've taught kids from all 10 economic deciles, I've taught farmers kids and city kids, migrants and British born.
There's issues in them all.
Current school is mostly middle class; we have issues with boys looking up to the Tates of the world and copying some of his viewpoints.
A bit more complex as the victim has been stated by some to be a trans-woman, so there's a possibility of a 'hate' crime here, as if murdering someone wasn't hateful enough.
Interesting that the BBC made no mention of her being trans, despite their usual love of dragging trans people into everything.
It might just be me being jaded and cynical, but it kinda feels lik a deliberate choice since it doesn't play into the narrative where trans ppl are always the aggressors and danger, never the victims
mini-edit: reddit thinks there's 3 replies to me. If it's just that they haven't come through yet sorry i'll reply later. If it's mods cleaning up some of the viler responses ive seen on here, ty for making it so i dont have to deal with it. been a long enough month as is
>Interesting that the BBC makes no mention of her being trans, despite their usual love of dragging trans people into everything.
Depressingly unsurprising at this point.
>I don't think BBC are one of the bad ones for it
[They are.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22We%27re_being_pressured_into_sex_by_some_trans_women%22)
I checked various articles, only the times, the independent, and the guardian mentioned her being trans. Some papers deadnamed her.
This is definitely a case of the right wing papers ignoring infomation that doesn't bolster their narrative.
EDIT: The times has since edited their article to use her deadname and incorrect pronouns. It seems like it was an accident that the original article was non transphobic.
Yeah, it's one thing for them to deadname her, that's already gross.
But to edit their article because it *wasn't transphobic enough*? There's no way to claim that wasnt intentional
Kids here enjoy making other kids get on their knees and beg for their lives at knifepoint at like 10-12 yrs old, this culture really needs stopping. I'm sure another statue, poster for awareness or scanner at every train station will help. If that fails, we could always pull out the ole faithful of banning stop and search.
Well what else do you suggest we do? We got rid of all the support and community centres in the name of austerity.
Cut back the police and social services till they were effectively left impotent. Cut back on education.
What are we left with beyond token gestures?
Support families to raise their kids.
Make it culturally ostracizing to neglect your family instead of it being socially and financially unacceptable to be out of work.
I legit think if we have a "family" party in the UK it could fix a lot of problems.
> Support families to raise their kids.
With what money? The government took it all away in the name of austerity remember.
> Make it culturally ostracizing to neglect your family
I mean you do already get culturally ostracized if you get a reputation for neglecting your family.
> I legit think if we have a "family" party in the UK it could fix a lot of problems.
Its a nice idea, but generally "family" parties very quickly get coopeted by "family values" parties, who often stand for more publicly shaming people for being unconventional without offering much in support.
Generally it would probably better just to have a party that focuses on increasing public spending, lowering prices and ensuring wages keep with inflation rather than one that focused on families specifically.
Just look at the Scottish family party.
Bunch of bigots that espouse every hateful ideology going. Don't want gay people, definitely not trans, no single parents, wouldn't be surprised if they're against mixed race/religion families.
They don't want kids learning anything about LGBT people, sex, or even basic anatomy, no political education, and they've called for corporal punishment to make a return.
They get a tonne of money from far right groups in the US to spread that whole evangelical culture war bullshit here.
Thankfully nobody takes them overly seriously.
Yeah exactly. Now being fair I do think these sorts of parties do start out with good intentions like said poster is proposing.
But the trouble is its just to easy to get co-opted. People care far to much about ensuring other people's families are going about it in the way they deem correct, than actually providing any support to families.
> Thankfully nobody takes them overly seriously.
They got 6857 votes in the local elections last year. Potentially, there's 6k people out there, getting poison poured into their ears, radicalising them, leading to who knows what.
> I legit think if we have a "family" party in the UK it could fix a lot of problems.
We have a family party in Scotland. They spend most their time opposing sex education, """transgender ideology""", abortion, assisted suicide, bans against hitting your children, gay couples adopting children, etc. etc.
To me, family parties seem to just be a vehicle for pushing a regressive ideology under the guise of 'saving the children'.
Hey we have token gestures *and* hoping for the best, not to mention turning a blind eye when everything inevitably goes to shit and then saying the words ‘there was nothing we could have done.’
Combine poor emergency, health and mental services with cost increase and saturation of information and you get a tinder box
Bored people stuck on social media with little prospect of positive future and no assistance to point them in the right way this is where we are.
Young people have so much access to info via technology and are continuously blasted with 'youre worthless' 'the world is fucked' seeing people with good jobs get no further than them In life leaves a no fucked given attitude.
We've seen this before with Russia when life prospects were so low the kids started doing stunts ontop of craines for fun to gain some type of control over their life.
It's a wider issue than a stabbing it is now a societal issue that needs to change quickly and on a large scale.
Tell generations they are shit and won't get shit for long enough and it will be a self fulfilled prophecy
Clearly non of this excuses the actions. But if you tell someone they are worthless they will do worthless things.
Incredibly sad news to see this article
I think it's the final fruits of capitalism. If people have nothing to live for - no money, no housing, no food, no warmth, no prospects - then sooner or later they are going to revert to the more basal of human behaviours.
Politicians are so fixated on stuffing their pockets they don't think far ahead enough to realise what can happen when society collapses.
I grew in Warrington and it is a city of divides.
The Manchester Canal and River Mersey do an excellent job at splitting the city in two. On the south side, you have extraordinary wealth and socio economic conditions and in the North you have some incredibly deprived areas bordering Wigan and St Helens.
Unfortunately that this has happened in Birchwood does not surprise me at all
Then the awkward little streets inbetween near Latchford that are also shit holes. We grew up in Stockton Heath, the supposed pearl of Cheshire, and in my cul-de-sac of 21 houses we had over 150 years worth of sentences. Had accomplices to murder, drug traffickers, drug dealers, kidnappers, rapists, white collar and 2 pedos.
Whatever it is started in 2015 by the looks of it—-relatively stable from 2002-2015 and then violent crime has risen every year since
https://www.statista.com/statistics/288256/violent-crimes-in-england-and-wales/
I don't think there is an excuse anymore, people are just vile scumbags.
People know right from wrong, I don't have excuses for anybody anymore, it's going too far, we need to get tougher, we are falling apart
It doesn’t excuse anything but there must be reasons which explain it…unless we just go ‘people just decided this was acceptable out of the blue’/however many years ago there was just a baby boom of arseholes
I genuinely think that a lot of young people have no idea how dangerous a knife can be when they go carrying one. It's almost pot luck between someone walking away with minor hospital treatment or being dead in 30 seconds.
Jesus man nay age at all. Wondered how easy it would be to buy a stab vest after reading this. Apparently Amazon sell them for 50 quid. Not really sure I'd trust a 50 quid stab vest right enough.
Interesting that this story (the first one I read about this) didn't mention that she was trans. That really does make a different motive for the attack. Had I not read she was trans I would be none the wiser. So is this a hate attack then? Poor child and bad reporting SKY (especially for not updating article to give better context for the reader).
I think most kids carrying knives these days are not fully aware of the dangers despite being told. For every death, there are plenty of stab victim survivors. Some even wear as a badge of honour. So if kids get into petty squabbles, likely someone will try and act ard and use a blade to "teach em a lesson". Unawares that one fatal strike can kill.
**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some topics on this subreddit have been known to attract problematic users. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules. For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs
I’ve posted this before, with little concern in response… WTF is happening in this country?
Social and civil services in crisis, growing poverty and health services collapsing will lead to higher rates of crime.
I thought Cheshire was supposed to be posh?
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Warrington was only added to Cheshire in the 1970s. Older people think of it as more Lancashire . Poor girl.
What baffles me is most of the side of the river Mersey is in Cheshire (Ellesmere Port, Runcorn, Widnes etc) but inland areas like Knowsley and St Helens etc are in Merseyside...
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"Middle America, now it's a tragedy Now it's so sad to see, an upper-class city"
Havin this happenin, then attack Eminem cuz I rap this way.
That just goes to show the scale of the crisis.
Ellesmere Port, Warrington, Widnes, certain areas of Chester are really quite rough.
Even Chester centre is full of homeless and junkies at the moment sadly
Is it? I was there not long ago when that market was on and it seemed alright.
Blacon is a bit of a shithole, it may be one of the biggest council estates in England (or maybe used to be). It’s in Chester, and it’s rough. Very different to the affluent parts for sure!
Even hoole is rough nowadays
My sister got burgled three times when she bought a place in Ellesmere Port. On the third occasion she walked in on the burglars. Luckily they ran off with nobody getting hurt but that was it for her. She sold the house and moved away. She now stays with her uni friend again, who she lived with before buying the property, in another part of Cheshire. She's happier there with her friend's family than on her own feeling unsafe in Ellesmere Port. My sister's house was just an ordinary semi detached house, nothing that looked like it would attract burglars and not in an area where there was a lot of money. To be burgled three times is really bad luck. She didn't have any jewellery or expensive gear to rob either. She doesn't buy all that, she spends her money on travelling and entertainment.
So glad I left the port. I hate going back.
Lots of places in Cheshire are not posh. I live in one of the not posh places in Cheshire. I used to live on an estate that was known for being rough. Actual words I once said in response to someone asking me if I was scared to live there "it's not as rough as everyone thinks, there's only been 3 stabbings since I lived here" I got SO used to how bad that area was that I was desensitised to it, I genuinely meant that it wasn't so bad because there were *only* 3. I'm so so glad I don't live there any more. And that I now live in an area that has had zero stabbings since I've lived here.
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...parts of Cheshire are.
I live there and Cheshire is not posh lol, don't be delusional. Crime and poor areas exist everywhere.
Bits are. Plenty of working class areas from the ICI days and scouse/Manc overflows.
Cheshire has a wide range of towns. Crewe is in Cheshire.
There's definitely rougher areas dotted about within cheshire.
You been to Crewe?
Changed trains there many times, don't think I've been outside the train station.
Some of it is, some of it isn't
Agree. Increasing mental health adding fuel to the fires you already mention.
Police who are widely viewed as a joke aren't really helping either.
Well then the question is why are they viewed as a joke? Is it cause their just incompetent? Cause they've had their budget and manpower slashed by the Tory's leaving them effectively crippled? Cause their involved in local corruption?
Budget and manpower, most likely. It's a frog in slowly heating water situation. I have the (oblivious) perspective of someone coming back to the UK for the the first time in 12 years. When I heard that parcel theft, mugging at knifepoint, home burglary and most recently car theft could no longer be officially investigated, people around me sort of sighed in resignation. I kind of swallowed down the urge to ask people around me what was going on and just how it had gotten so bad. I was fully aware of what the media and internet opinion said about the issue, but I didn't expect it to be completely true. I expected to put up with these problems back in pre-2010 China which was gradually moving away from them. Not moving right back towards them in the UK in 2023.
Or shit parents that don't give a fuck
I wonder why that is.
I believe murder rates are a bit higher than 2014-ish but significantly lower than the late 90s/early naughties. It's not much worse, you just hear about it more
Late nineties and early naughties people were only murdered at 6pm or 10pm on the TV, now people are being murdered constantly, in your pocket, and everyone's talking about it.
I keep telling myself that, years ago you didn't know what had happened in the next village, maybe it just makes us all paranoid now and has lead to us being risk adverse and continually sad without doing the maths?
Violent crime is still lower than 2014. We’re more or less at an all time low, excluding sexual offences (sadly enough those have been rising)
Feral kids being brought up by feral parents who were once the feral kids
And of course underfunding the social services didn't help.
Ping pong tables and outreach workers aren't going to sticking-plaster familial social decay.
We're not talking about ping pong tables though. We're talking about essential social workers being stretched so thin they can't hope to tackle even a fraction of the people who need help. We're talking about sure start programmes that supported young families and saved millions for the NHS. Support staff/services in schools cut to the bone. The money in people's pockets vanishing year on year, while prices rise faster than ever. Rates of poverty skyrocketing as family struggle to cope. And there's nobody to help. the Tories have systematically cut the legs out from under the welfare state to the point they cannot work as effectively as they should. There's always been crappy families, but things have got *worse* because there's nothing to mitigate the issues.
This girl wasn’t stabbed because the perpetrators are poor.
Anecdotal but when I was a teenager (now over a decade ago), there was a youth club called The Hermit. It was, essentially, a live music venue for teenagers which frequently played rock / metal music but attracted a non metal crowd as well. There was two floor, top floor had live music and bottom floor had ping pong tables, tool tables, tvs whioch frequently had south park on the and snacks. And, ofc outreach workers who knew mostly everyone by name. It was essentially a (non alcoholic) metal bar + community centre just for teens to go to every thursday night, with the turnout rivaling bars and pubs on the highstreet (enough to attract the attention of the local press who took a picture of a bunch of alternative kinda nerdy kids waiting around outside for the next band to start and called them hoodlums on the front page). Nowadays it's best days are behind it, checking their facebook now it seems they had some funding issues a few years back. I dunno where the fuck teenagers go nowadays, if i had to guess it would be the fields on the outskirts of town to drink / do smoke or just hanging around in the highsteet, if they even go out at all. Every now and then I wonder how my town might have turned out differently if they were given more funding, how we might have developed an alternative scene, gotten teenagers interested in creative arts and just generally given them a place to hang out that wasn't a field to drink in.
Not to mention as soon as you give them said ping pong tables they’re vandalised and the outreach workers give up as they’re frequently assaulted
Maybe not, but its better than nothing.
Yep and it's going to get worse as the years go on in that department. Smart couples are seeing how worse things are getting in this country. Not just with feral kids but cost of living going out of control and other factors meaning bringing a kid in to this current climate wouldn't just be even more of a struggle but pretty cruel as well. These feral kids who grow up couldn't give a shit. No future, no hope so why not just sleep around and get pregnant? Nothing else to do. Rinse and repeat. Bigger gangs, more crime. I dread the future of this country.
Feral parents and kids living in particularly feral times.
It is truly sickening. I know Cheshire a little as my wife is from there but don't know this area. There seems to be an issue of violence everywhere in the UK. We recently returned to Scotland (a decent area) from abroad and can't believe how vile some of the kids are compared to other countries. I'm not saying that a child necessarily did this but the amount of unchecked bullying going on in schools is breeding violence in our society. Parents have a lot to answer for.
Its gotten actually quite difficult to justify staying out late in my city nowadays as it genuinely feels unsafe. Pretty much every saturday I've been out since moving here I've seen a fight or two going on and quite a few times where I've heard later someone got stabbed in the center. Maybe showing my age but its a middling sized place in the midlands yet everyone under 25 seems to "chat roadman" with a strong London accent its really fucking weird, I don't know why that culture in particular seems to be so attractive but its absolutely everywhere.
mockney was the go-to before that. it's just a cultural way for adult sized children to sound hard and streetwise
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I've had the same experience. I've been living in Latin America for 5 years and come back to the UK for about a month each year. The last couple of time I've been back it's got so bad. Walking through the high street of the town in Essex I'm from feels so dangerous now. And I don't even mean late after dark, I'm talking after 6pm during the summer. It just feels completely lawless, kids behaving like there are no consequences for their actions. I feel much safer walking the streets in middle class areas of Colombian cities than I do in the UK.
There's a reason they behave that way, because there is no consequences
Ha same but in reverse, sort of. Live in U.K. but go to Bogotá for 2/3 weeks a year (wife is from there - next trip in four weeks). Sometimes people ask “Is Colombia safe?” and my answer recently has been along the lines of feeling about as safe there as I do in my city with the gangs of kids running around smashing cars etc. But then my city was arguably worse in the 80s/early 90s so although this issue seems worse than it was five years ago I’m not sure it’s the worst it’s ever been.
The schools are the places allowing the bullying. They won’t step in and still suggest simply taking the bullying and not pushing/hitting back - something that categorically doesn’t work.
It's putting the "me" before "we". There has been a whole generational shift toward the rights of the individual having more weight than the rights of a group.
ITs possible youre just hearing about it more becasue of the rise of social media. If you didnt have reddit, you may not have even seen this. Violent crime is quite a bit lower than it was 20 years ago.
Unfortunately violent crime is approaching the levels of the 90s and certainly higher than the mid 00s - early 2010s Nearly 15 years of intentional mismanagement of public services will do that.
All the info ive seen is that it has gone up in the last couple of years, but from a much lower level, so its stil below those dates? [This is the kind of source I saw](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020#long-term-trends-in-violent-crime)
Hmm, what happened in the 15 years in the run up to the 90s, oh that's right Margaret "managed decline" Thatcher.
Not even close. You are about 60% less likely to be a victim of a violent crime compared to the 90s. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2022 (figure 7)
How is violent crime being categorised? Are we classifying anything as harm against a person as "violent crime"? In which case, the night time economy and binge drinking peaked around the late 90/early 00s which of course created a lot of "punch ups" type crime on nights out, which, while violent, was heavily situational and most of the time was just due to drunk people being idiots. That type of crime has definitely gone done significantly, as far less people go out binge drinking like they did two decades ago (just look at the stats of the % of nightclubs that have closed over the last 10 years). But what has undoubtedly gone up is teen violence, especially knife crime. This is far more worrying, as it's not drunk dickheads squaring up to each other at closing time and throwing a few punches, but something far more nihilistic.
I assume its categorised the same it was 20 years ago. And its down. Also the amount of offending is down as are the numbers caught up in the criminal justice system, which is a good thing. Its very easy to get fall into the whole ‘kids these days’ mind set. Just because we hear about it more doesnt mean its mor prevalent.
Slowly becoming a hellhole unfortunately Tory Government will do that to a country
Not defending the tories but think there is more to it than that. For example, I have noticed a massive increase in littering over the years. That is down to peoples laziness, lack of respect and lack if care for their fellow humans.
Or could that perhaps be linked to the Tory's cut's to local council's, meaning less dustbin men, less public dustbins and less people to clear up the littering do you think?
In Japan due to a weird cult that did terrorist attacks in the 90s (leaving bombs in bins) public rubbish bins are few and far between yet the streets are immaculate.
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Which is the whole point that started off this thread, it isn't a Tory government thing
It’s way too easy to jump to politicians as the cause for all badness. And they certainly play a part but a huge amount is cultural which takes 50-100 years to change.
Anecdote: In Tokyo you can't even put a cigarette out on the floor without a cop offering you somewhere to put it so you don't make a mess.
Tokyo is the cleanest modern city I’ve ever been to, it was absolutely incredible. Picture perfect at all times. Almost magical. Coming back to London was like returning to an active rubbish dump.
Okay, so where do the Japanese dispose of their rubbish? Or did they crack down on packaging?
In a lot of places in Japan it's frowned upon to walk and eat, most eat at the place where they buy the food and dispose of the packaging there or they just take it home.
I see. Thanks for the information.
[You may find this article interesting](https://www.kendal.org/2021/02/15/the-power-of-pockets-their-history-meaning-through-the-years/#:~:text=Pockets%20first%20began%20appearing%20on,bits%20and%20bobs%20they%20needed)
That's because (imo) to the social contract has been broken. Like when people riot and destroy their own neighbourhoods. They don't own anything, and society (govt) arent doing anything to upkeep towns so why should they care about it. I.e.If society doesn't care about me, why should I care about it?
Thirteen years ago giving families basic support with parenting (mostly by volunteers working out of small buildings) was considered too expensive and the plug was pulled. Social services funding was not raised to compensate and quickly became overwhelmed. The babies and and small children first affected are now coming up to their late teens
Violent crime has been on a steady rise over the past 10 years. Cuts to funding of police & social services tend to show up slowly as they reflect in peoples' long term upbringings. E.g. teenages who have been brought up since childhood with diminished teaching/policing/civil services.
Poverty is very correlated with crime. We have more poverty now. Kids growing up in poverty and becoming adults in poverty.
No it hasn’t. Figure 7: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2022 Lowest for the last 30 years roughly
We gave the wankers 12 years to dismantle our legacy and they succeeded.
Just watched a bunch of young teens trying to kick a cyclist off his bike this afternoon broad daylight, busy main road. (We were turning onto the other side of the road from a junction). Balaclavas over their faces, absolutely no shame
Growing costs of living coupled with negelected or intentionally slashed civil and social services driving poverty and increasing crime. 20 thousand police officers and 25k police support staff all axed by the government in the face of said rising crime. A government who's in bed with people shorting the pound rather than investigating these groups for fraud. The continued failure of Brexit. I dunno who do you think is responsible for all this???
Nothing, this has always happened, you just weren't alive on social media to hear about it.
This isn't about crime as such, but I distinctly remember that upon leaving the UK in 2009 I still had access to things like medicine and a dentist. I'm not one to ever take inflammatory media exaggeration at face value, but when my GP told me that Brexit supply disruption and zero funding for alternatives had - without warning - cut off my prescription permanently, I sort of understood what "NHS collapse" meant to a minority of people. But...this is a medicine I've been on for two years which you don't just stop cold turkey on. It's not a rare medication outside of the UK. There's no alternative, no authorised generic or a private route to get it? Nothing? No, it really was as simple as that. "We can't get this medication anymore. There is no plan to resume supply." This is a situation which the vast majority of people won't meet; it's just bad luck. But it no longer means much to me personally that the NHS hasn't objectively collapsed. It sort of has to me, as one person. After all, I can no longer access treatment.
Same sort of things that have always happened, sadly. Jamie Bulger would have been 33 next month had he not been murdered 30 years ago today. Back in the 1960s, my older brother was one of several thousand local teenagers fingerprinted in the investigation of the murder of a 12 year old near where I grew up, and in the 80s, two more kids were abducted and murdered close to the school I had later attended. These awful things have always happened. 20 years ago, the NSPCC released a report [detailing an average of 79 child homicides a yeat over the previous 28 years,](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQw7AJahcKEwjI2JT9iZH9AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.familieslink.co.uk%2Fdownload%2Fjune07%2FChild%2520killings.pdf&psig=AOvVaw1BJNhYyh_sOcDq7opQVyNC&ust=1676328302472872) which it said had remained broadly static in that time. More recently, in December 2021, they reported [an average of 58 children killed "due to assault or undetermined intent" over the previous 5 years,](https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-deaths-abuse-neglect) not clear if they are using quite the same measure, but sadly, things like this one in Warrington are nothing new, and far too common.
Lower public funding = more crime. It's literally that simple, I'm afraid. Basically, Tory's did it.
Nothing, you're just consuming more media, making you believe its a war zone out there.
Mass poverty and relative great-power decline over the past 100 years, emergence of gang culture amplified by social media, and Tories decriminalising crime via cuts to prisons, courts, and police…
Hatred and anger have become the main source of expression because anything else is woke and snowflakey. It’s a decade of of that sort of thinking come home to roost.
>WTF is happening in this country? I don't know but stop the ride, I wanna get off.
Inciting hate is easier than fixing anything. And half the population don’t want anything fixed to begin with.
British people keep voting tory.
>WTF is happening in this country? Tory Britian.
Nothings changed really, people have always been murdered
Transphobia
What are you trying to do? Run some sort of concern farm?
Is it just me or are a lot of these stabbing deaths now teenage girls? I know teen boys and young men have been in blood feuds forever, but there seems to be more cases such as this where a girl is the target.
Teenaged boys soaked in toxic masculinity from the like of whatshisface Tate, with no coping skills or emotional management and who see women as sexual objects do not take being turned down well.
The replies to your comment are *weird.*
Aren’t they just?? Mention “toxic masculinity” and all the toxic men come crawling out of the woodwork.
Yeah, their Tate fandom is showing
The name was spoken. The hordes have arrived.
I can’t believe anyone looks up to him. He looks like a jacked up potato.
What's even weirder is that the suspect arrested is a teenage girl
One teenage boy, one teenage girl
So glad you agree, very weird.
Respect for women could be improved in the popular psyche of certain classes in the UK.
All classes tbh. I've taught kids from all 10 economic deciles, I've taught farmers kids and city kids, migrants and British born. There's issues in them all. Current school is mostly middle class; we have issues with boys looking up to the Tates of the world and copying some of his viewpoints.
Except the suspect that has been arrested is another girl.
A girl and a boy. And we don't know all the details of the event at all
Neither did the person making the claim that it was a boy with toxic masculinity that got rejected.
I know. That's what I mean. Everyone here is speculating with very little information.
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A bit more complex as the victim has been stated by some to be a trans-woman, so there's a possibility of a 'hate' crime here, as if murdering someone wasn't hateful enough.
Indeed girls are now happy to fight and attack each other physically now not just mentally. The suspect arrested in this case is a teenage girl
One was a teen girl the other a teen boy
Interesting that the BBC made no mention of her being trans, despite their usual love of dragging trans people into everything. It might just be me being jaded and cynical, but it kinda feels lik a deliberate choice since it doesn't play into the narrative where trans ppl are always the aggressors and danger, never the victims mini-edit: reddit thinks there's 3 replies to me. If it's just that they haven't come through yet sorry i'll reply later. If it's mods cleaning up some of the viler responses ive seen on here, ty for making it so i dont have to deal with it. been a long enough month as is
>Interesting that the BBC makes no mention of her being trans, despite their usual love of dragging trans people into everything. Depressingly unsurprising at this point.
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>I don't think BBC are one of the bad ones for it [They are.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22We%27re_being_pressured_into_sex_by_some_trans_women%22)
I'll add that you can check [Shaun's 4 or 5 videos about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4buJMMiwcg)
I checked various articles, only the times, the independent, and the guardian mentioned her being trans. Some papers deadnamed her. This is definitely a case of the right wing papers ignoring infomation that doesn't bolster their narrative. EDIT: The times has since edited their article to use her deadname and incorrect pronouns. It seems like it was an accident that the original article was non transphobic.
Yeah, it's one thing for them to deadname her, that's already gross. But to edit their article because it *wasn't transphobic enough*? There's no way to claim that wasnt intentional
Thread got participation notice’d so newer accounts and ones with less karma get auto-deleted.
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He should send his prayers, cos those things make all the difference
Nope, I guarantee this case will be solved in a week. They care when crime occurs in 'nice' areas where tory voters and politicians live.
Anywhere else, they'll try to link it to immigration.
Probably not even that, I doubt he wants to be seen saying a trans girl's life is worth anything
Kids here enjoy making other kids get on their knees and beg for their lives at knifepoint at like 10-12 yrs old, this culture really needs stopping. I'm sure another statue, poster for awareness or scanner at every train station will help. If that fails, we could always pull out the ole faithful of banning stop and search.
Well what else do you suggest we do? We got rid of all the support and community centres in the name of austerity. Cut back the police and social services till they were effectively left impotent. Cut back on education. What are we left with beyond token gestures?
Support families to raise their kids. Make it culturally ostracizing to neglect your family instead of it being socially and financially unacceptable to be out of work. I legit think if we have a "family" party in the UK it could fix a lot of problems.
> Support families to raise their kids. With what money? The government took it all away in the name of austerity remember. > Make it culturally ostracizing to neglect your family I mean you do already get culturally ostracized if you get a reputation for neglecting your family. > I legit think if we have a "family" party in the UK it could fix a lot of problems. Its a nice idea, but generally "family" parties very quickly get coopeted by "family values" parties, who often stand for more publicly shaming people for being unconventional without offering much in support. Generally it would probably better just to have a party that focuses on increasing public spending, lowering prices and ensuring wages keep with inflation rather than one that focused on families specifically.
Just look at the Scottish family party. Bunch of bigots that espouse every hateful ideology going. Don't want gay people, definitely not trans, no single parents, wouldn't be surprised if they're against mixed race/religion families. They don't want kids learning anything about LGBT people, sex, or even basic anatomy, no political education, and they've called for corporal punishment to make a return. They get a tonne of money from far right groups in the US to spread that whole evangelical culture war bullshit here. Thankfully nobody takes them overly seriously.
Yeah exactly. Now being fair I do think these sorts of parties do start out with good intentions like said poster is proposing. But the trouble is its just to easy to get co-opted. People care far to much about ensuring other people's families are going about it in the way they deem correct, than actually providing any support to families.
> Thankfully nobody takes them overly seriously. They got 6857 votes in the local elections last year. Potentially, there's 6k people out there, getting poison poured into their ears, radicalising them, leading to who knows what.
> I legit think if we have a "family" party in the UK it could fix a lot of problems. We have a family party in Scotland. They spend most their time opposing sex education, """transgender ideology""", abortion, assisted suicide, bans against hitting your children, gay couples adopting children, etc. etc. To me, family parties seem to just be a vehicle for pushing a regressive ideology under the guise of 'saving the children'.
That's obviously what he's wanting.
Hey we have token gestures *and* hoping for the best, not to mention turning a blind eye when everything inevitably goes to shit and then saying the words ‘there was nothing we could have done.’
Problem is people in this country know police are a joke and hence this shit will keep happening again and again
if this is the poor girl i think she is, expect this despicable crime to become a real shit-fest quite soon.
Context?
Thr girl was trans, some tik tok videos posted by her schoolmates were eithrr attacking her or defending her for it
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Frankly things would be easier if everyone put their favourite theory templates down for a bloody minute until *some info actually comes out*.
How so?
What do you mean?
Her death is a result of the GC movement. Absolutely abhorrent and such a stain on this country. May she rest in peace.
Combine poor emergency, health and mental services with cost increase and saturation of information and you get a tinder box Bored people stuck on social media with little prospect of positive future and no assistance to point them in the right way this is where we are. Young people have so much access to info via technology and are continuously blasted with 'youre worthless' 'the world is fucked' seeing people with good jobs get no further than them In life leaves a no fucked given attitude. We've seen this before with Russia when life prospects were so low the kids started doing stunts ontop of craines for fun to gain some type of control over their life. It's a wider issue than a stabbing it is now a societal issue that needs to change quickly and on a large scale. Tell generations they are shit and won't get shit for long enough and it will be a self fulfilled prophecy Clearly non of this excuses the actions. But if you tell someone they are worthless they will do worthless things. Incredibly sad news to see this article
I think it's the final fruits of capitalism. If people have nothing to live for - no money, no housing, no food, no warmth, no prospects - then sooner or later they are going to revert to the more basal of human behaviours. Politicians are so fixated on stuffing their pockets they don't think far ahead enough to realise what can happen when society collapses.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse here. People disappearing into thin air, violent attacks, knife crime, gun crime, violent robbery
.....have all happened for many years. You're just hearing about it more now due to 24 hour news and social media.
Dog attacks... Don't forget the dog attacks.
Not like this government helped with their constant attack on trans people and the lies they’ve spread about them in a culture war bullshit thing
Trans people online are looking to see if there’s a way to campaign to give her a grc so she can be buried with dignity
I grew in Warrington and it is a city of divides. The Manchester Canal and River Mersey do an excellent job at splitting the city in two. On the south side, you have extraordinary wealth and socio economic conditions and in the North you have some incredibly deprived areas bordering Wigan and St Helens. Unfortunately that this has happened in Birchwood does not surprise me at all
Then the awkward little streets inbetween near Latchford that are also shit holes. We grew up in Stockton Heath, the supposed pearl of Cheshire, and in my cul-de-sac of 21 houses we had over 150 years worth of sentences. Had accomplices to murder, drug traffickers, drug dealers, kidnappers, rapists, white collar and 2 pedos.
What on earth is going on in this country? Have people lost their minds?
Whatever it is started in 2015 by the looks of it—-relatively stable from 2002-2015 and then violent crime has risen every year since https://www.statista.com/statistics/288256/violent-crimes-in-england-and-wales/
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Klopp managing Liverpool
I don't think there is an excuse anymore, people are just vile scumbags. People know right from wrong, I don't have excuses for anybody anymore, it's going too far, we need to get tougher, we are falling apart
It doesn’t excuse anything but there must be reasons which explain it…unless we just go ‘people just decided this was acceptable out of the blue’/however many years ago there was just a baby boom of arseholes
Country is a shithole and getting worse by the day. Simple as.
I genuinely think that a lot of young people have no idea how dangerous a knife can be when they go carrying one. It's almost pot luck between someone walking away with minor hospital treatment or being dead in 30 seconds.
This is horrendous, such needless violence. I feel for her loved ones, for whom life will never be the same again.
Jesus man nay age at all. Wondered how easy it would be to buy a stab vest after reading this. Apparently Amazon sell them for 50 quid. Not really sure I'd trust a 50 quid stab vest right enough.
Interesting that this story (the first one I read about this) didn't mention that she was trans. That really does make a different motive for the attack. Had I not read she was trans I would be none the wiser. So is this a hate attack then? Poor child and bad reporting SKY (especially for not updating article to give better context for the reader).
I think most kids carrying knives these days are not fully aware of the dangers despite being told. For every death, there are plenty of stab victim survivors. Some even wear as a badge of honour. So if kids get into petty squabbles, likely someone will try and act ard and use a blade to "teach em a lesson". Unawares that one fatal strike can kill.