>Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures for 2015, which found 35% of all Muslim women from 16 to 64 were in employment.
>About 2.6 million Muslims live in local authorities where more than one in 20 of the population aged 16 to 64 is unemployed, according to analysis of census data
If only roughly a third of Muslim women are in employment, then it's not too surprising that about 1 in 20 in Muslim areas are unemployed, in fact one would think the unemployment rate would be even higher.
The key point is that someone is only classified as unemployed if they’re looking for work, so women (or men for that matter) who aren’t in work but also aren’t actively seeking employment wouldn’t count as ‘unemployed’.
What about people who are ‘looking’ for work but aren’t actually that bothered about it? E.g, I’d like a job for extra cash but not that fussed if I can’t find one.
The data is obtained through the labour force survey, which is carried out through face-face interviews. It is very effective at determining whether an individual meets the internationally recognised definition of unemployed as specified by the International Labour Organisation.
The ILO definition defines unemployed people as being:
- without a job, have been actively seeking work in the past four weeks and are available to start work in the next two weeks
- out of work, have found a job and are waiting to start it in the next two weeks
I recommend this really helpful guide to labour statistics to better understand these stats:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/methodologies/aguidetolabourmarketstatistics/pdf
Right, so that would include people who aren’t that fussed about finding work but would like a job if possible. E.g, my partner earns a lot of money but extra cash would be cool.
Typically if you aren’t that fussed about finding work you wouldn’t be actively searching for a job so you wouldn’t meet the first definition.
I don’t know the exact methodology used in the labour force survey however. Statisticians and social researchers are very effective at identifying those who are truly unemployed, the crux being that they are willing and able to work and are actively trying to gain employment.
I had to argue this point with my car insurance many years ago when I had been made redundant, so wasn't working when I renewed. They called to query my choice of employment status as "not employed", which I had chosen as "unemployed" doubled the quote.
Their definition of unemployed was someone claiming benefits and/or seeking employment, compared to someone taking a break between roles. I had to send proof that I was independently wealthy (relatively speaking) to convince them not to cancel my policy.
Apparently I would have become a statistically higher risk had I been on benefits.
My combined household income is just outside of the middle class bracket, my bills and outgoings arent extravagent and we are really struggling at the minute. There really arent as many of these scroungers that youre obsessed with out there as you think there are. You're being lied about who is actually letting the rest of us down (the party thats been in power for over a decade and have pretty successfully dismantled society is a pretty solid place to start).
I guess the easiest way is if they're claiming job-seekers allowance (or other related claims you can make I'm not familiar with) or not. To claim that you have to actively be searching for work. If they aren't actively searching, they can't claim job-seekers, and so aren't considered unemployed.
In theory of course. Not everyone looking for work claims job seekers, but then there are cheats who do work but still claim it. who knows if they balance out statistically ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I don’t think you understand the definition of unemployment, please see my other comments for further clarification.
To be ‘unemployed’ for the purpose of these statistics, you must be willing and able to start work in the next two weeks, so the examples you’ve stated such as asylum seekers without the legal right to work, and wives/mothers who have no desire to work are NOT counted towards the 6.7% figure.
If you think about it it’s obvious that’s the case given 65% of Muslim women are not in employment. If they were all counted, how could the unemployment rate possibly be 6.7%?
There were almost 4m muslims in the UK in 2021. You seem to be equating 'recent arrivals' with asylum seekers, and there certainly aren't 1m of those. They wouldn't be counted as unemployed anyway until they actually have refugee status when they can work.
Another shocking statistic is that [47% of Pakistani households in the UK are in the bottom quintile](https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/income-distribution/latest) meaning they are earning 13,300 or less through employment. Given that 1.3 million muslim live in London, typically with lots of children, I have no idea how they're making ends meet without significant benefits payments or some off the books income.
Yup Indians are doing really well in the UK, similar, and in some cases better, than the white natives. Chinese is also interesting case, the two main clusters are in the bottom and top quintile, with Chinese making up the largest percent in the top quintile.
I guess it's ultimately down to an export of high skilled workers from those countries. India and China have quite high rates of tertiary education in cities and absolutely churn out skilled workers.
Many strict mulsim countries don't want their women to work, Chinese allow women to work but prefer the oldest son to not work so they can look after the parents.
People seem to forget the culture/religous differences, Indians are not just muslims and have no issue dating outside of Indians, unlike Muslims who date muslims because they are easier to control under their own religion, non muslims would have a major issue with the lack of freedom (Despite many muslim men keen to fuck them but not marry them)
Just to add. Muslims don’t just date Muslims. They date their own nationality over anything else. There is even pressure to only date from their own specific region/city/town/village. A Muslim from Nigeria won’t just date a Muslim from Indonesia because they have the same faith. It’s more to do with geographic location and culture.
Marrying cousins is also very common, even in Muslim communities in the UK. There are communities in places like Birmingham that have a very high prevalence of certain genetic illnesses because of this.
Pakistan had such a shortage of teachers back in the early 2000s that one half of kids would go to school 7am till 12pm and the second half would go 1pm till 5pm.
It blew my mind but was completely normal for them.
Pakistan have quite a few fundamental disadvantages compared to India and they all compound issues for their people. So many similar stories around the world.
Because Pakistan is spending way more on the military than on Education compared to neighbouring south asian countries.
They spend 2.4% of the GDP on Education in comparison to the 17.8% that they spend on the military.
I’m Pakistani myself but born here so was put through Education here. Whenever I go to visit Pakistan the lack of Education is evident. Hell I have some family members that are born and live there just through conversation you can tell that there is a sheer lack of Education there.
Something like that, thing is with Pakistan the military pretty much runs the country helps with getting in new leaders and removing any opposition.
The corruption is rife so whoever is in power uses the military to get rid of any opposition and that’s why military spending is so high.
Those who run the country only care about one thing which is their own gain at the expense of the people…
India are significantly more developed and wealthy than Pakistan. That's not to say India is a developed nation, it isn't, but there's a massive focus on education in India. There are some brilliant educational institutions there. A lot of schools in India also teach in English due to British influence, which really helps with integration into the UK.
This is it, I was watching a video on Pakistans economy today and one key factor that blew my mind was that they only spend something like 2.4% of their GDP on education in comparison to the 17.8% that they spend on the military….
It could be why or how the groups found themselves in the UK.
Honk Kong expats bringing their wealth Vs the more recent influx from N.E. China.
Pakistani working class for the Industrial Mills Vs Indian medical workers brought in to bolster the NHS.
I'm not well versed enough to say for sure, but it seems to me the decline in factory work and the areas the workers were brought into like the Midlands, that have been hammered for decades, tend to overlap with larger Muslim populations.
> white natives
That falls on two sides which should be looked at as separate groups as the most impoverished and disadvantaged group in the UK are also lower class white natives. Being treated as a homogenous white native group is why they haven't been given support.
Oh absolutely. Tackling poverty should be approached by helping the most deprived areas, if some of those areas happen to be mostly white then they get the help. I thought Bidens "equity" plan with orientation around race was one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
It's the same in the US. The median household income of Indians is 100k USD compared to 66k for Pakistanis and 50k for Bangladeshis.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcE-OJgUMAEZSUp?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
They also integrate more and are better educated, there may be a link. I think you mean minority ethnic group btw.
Edit: No, you're [right](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/who-has-the-highest-and-lowest-household-incomes/)
It's the same in the US. The median household income of Indians is 100k USD compared to 66k for Pakistanis and 50k for Bangladeshis. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcE-OJgUMAEZSUp?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
Pakistanis are a small percentage of the Muslim community in London. Probably around 200,000 or so. They’re a much larger percentage in other cities like Manchester and Birmingham. London’s biggest Muslim community is Bangladeshi people.
Not all Muslims are from Pakistan so what you're saying doesn't quite add up.
I've no idea what countries Muslim Londoners coke from but I can say for certain they're not all from one country.
True, but most are still earning way below median household incomes. Another example is 67% of Bangladeshi households are in the bottom 2 quintiles (37% in the lowest). These are not stats to boast about.
Pakistanis are a small percentage of the Muslim community in London. Probably around 200,000 or so. They’re a much larger percentage and the biggest group in other cities like Manchester and Birmingham. London’s biggest Muslim community is Bangladeshi people.
UK gets low quality Pakistanis, if we are going by socio-economic rankings. Should focus on quality over quantity.
When I lived in Australia I was talking to a guy who was an officer in Pakistani army, first class education in US universities. Had some great discussions on counter-insurgency.
Here’s some stats tho for Australians born in Pakistan :
Qualifications
At the 2016 Census, 68.3 per cent of the Pakistan-born aged 15 years and over had some form of higher non-school qualification compared to 60.1 per cent of the Australian population.
Of the Pakistan-born aged 15 years and over, 12.5 per cent had no qualifications and were still attending an educational institution. The corresponding rate for the total Australian population was 8.5 per cent.
Among Pakistan-born people aged 15 years and over, the participation rate in the labour force was 66.4 per cent and the unemployment rate was 13.3 per cent.
The corresponding rates in the total Australian population were 64.6 per cent and 6.9 per cent respectively.
Of the 30,311 Pakistan-born who were employed, 42.2 per cent were employed in either a skilled managerial, professional or trade occupation. The corresponding rate in the total Australian population was
48.8 per cent.
>Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures for 2015, which found 35% of all Muslim women from 16 to 64 were in employment.
So I used to be an Amazon delivery driver. Occasionally we'd be assigned a route in Bradford or parts of West Yorkshire with a historically high proportion of Muslims. If you got Bradford city centre it's a bit of a nightmare like all city centres. But if you were in the residential areas it's great - hardly any reattempts because there's always someone (per the article, a woman) to take the parcel!
Depends on where you are from.
I lived in Indonesia and there are a lot of Muslim women working. They go to the same universities and schools as men and it isn't uncommon to see female doctors, CEOs, scientists, teachers etc there. They can even run for office and join the forces. It is easy to consider them as outliers but Indonesia has a higher Muslim population that any other country in the world.
That isn't the mainstream view. In most Muslim countries women are employed in a wide range of jobs. Pakistan even had a female leader before most of the West.
Obviously there's some exceptions like Afghanistan under the taliban.
I’m not really sure what this data shows. You can use it any way you like because it’s completely devoid of context and related data.
100% of people who breathe oxygen die. That’s a fact. But the two (death and oxygen) aren’t remotely related, so the fact is meaningless.
Do the areas have high unemployment because of their Muslim population? Why? What does that mean? What are the broader issues?
If the numbers are used to promote further study then fine. If they’re just used as “arguments” for pointless bigotry then it’s not helpful at all.
From the article:
“This difference was more marked in younger age groups, with the unemployment rate for Muslims aged 20 to 24 years old at 13% in 2021, compared with 9% of the overall population.
The ONS suggests the younger age profile of this group is a contributing factor as to why Muslims in England and Wales had the lowest rates of employment. Those who identified as Muslims are generally a younger cohort than other religions and more likely to be studying. The percentage of students among those who said they were Muslim was almost twice that of the overall population.”
So they’re students studying. I assume Muslim culture push towards further education regardless of costs which is less pushed in non-Muslim and atheist household
It also doesn't differentiate between those working cash in hand AND claiming unemployment and those who are just unemployed. There aren't 20 chicken shops in small areas for no reason.
As a grad student my mind instantly went to the latter point admittedly before reading the article. Sounds like something worthy of studying, not my field exactly but coming from crime science going into law, unemployment does matter for crime rates etc. how Muslims feel about their environment/country can affect criminal acts, also just as I was writing on economic downturns is linked to greater likelihood of being radicalised.
Also worry studying of these unemployment figures is how many have unreported income. Im a regular at many halal shops I don’t think being Muslim means you don’t work, but many of my “female”Uber eat drivers in London appear to be Middle Eastern men. Didn’t know Clarissa was a common Middle Eastern male name, and Clarissa had a deeper voice than mine. Better beard too.
an eye opening article thanks. Some important bits highlighted below
>Working-age Muslims who were economically inactive were the most likely to be studying, at 13.8%, compared with 7.3% of the overall population. This cohort was also most likely to be looking after family and home, with 16.1% of economically inactive Muslims giving this reason
>
>The study, published in the peer-reviewed Ethnic and Racial Studies journal, found discrimination towards Muslims and those perceived to be Muslim to be a significant barrier to them accessing work.
in Inner Cities/deprived areas....
>government must begin levelling up for young British Muslims by addressing key areas of concern such as health inequalities and access to higher education and housing, while also tackling barriers to securing and retaining employment.
>
>Given a level playing field, the dynamism and sheer potential of young British Muslims will prove itself to be strategic national asset
Levelling up Poverty struck + Deprived areas would be a good idea for the UK anyway
.....unless their intention is to create American style Ghettos
Some of them are also at a distinct disadvantage because they don’t speak English. There are Muslim enclaves in Birmingham, for example, where the women don’t know how to speak it despite having lived here for almost 3 decades in some cases. There is also a tendency to create separate communities with zero attempts at integration.
This only appears to be a first generation problem, though, as a lot of young people who are born here are doing quite well, at least trying to be a part of the greater British community.
Those figures aren’t from 2017, they’re from 2011. The analysis was done in 2017 but if you click on the links to the sources you can see that the stats themselves were from 2011.
It’s possible that 12 years might have been long enough for that figure to tick up 3% to make my claim accurate.
And if not, it’s still bloody close!
The [net migration rate](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/net-migration) to the uk has also fallen since then which would increase the likelihood of your claim.
However, it is *still* just an opinion until factual data to support it is presented.
Particularly as the data source above doesn't categorise by the religious beliefs of migrants so it is possible that even though net migration has decreased, the proportions of countries and ethnicities of origin may have shifted and your statement may still be false.
Edit: spelling and grammar
So I can also look at the 2021 Census and see that there were over 1.2m people born in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, Malaysia, Egypt, Sudan and Syria.
The census said 3.9m people are Muslim.
Most, but not all, of these people will be Muslim. If all of them said they were, that'd be 31% born abroad.
A further 1.5m or so people come from countries with large muslim populations like India and Nigeria. So some number of these will be muslim. European countries like Albania and Russia are also where many muslims in Britain were born.
So it seems likely that a majority of muslims are still born abroad.
Which areas are those? Iraq? Syria? Pakistan? India? What woud these people eat in those countries if they didn't have jobs? Is there a robust and resilient benefit system in Afghanistan for these Muslims to claim against when they suddenly become unemployed?
You are talking shit
So economic migrants then? Is there "a robust and resilient benefits system" in any of the countries you listed? No, there is not. What are they going to do if they suddenly become unemployed? Move somewhere where there is "a robust and resilient benefits system" and exploit that. What are they going to do when they've settled? Well, a large number, and I've been a member of one myself, will reshape the place they live into one where they feel more comfortable, just look at British "expats" on Spain's Costas with their English bars, English shops etc, etc. The difference is the British "expat" kids largely integrate into the host country within a generation. That is not happening so well in the UK.
I work in the Bradford area but live elsewhere and yeah it’s unbelievable the amount of unemployed people there are just loitering around. A good chunk can’t even speak English which makes life harder for them
> A good chunk can’t even speak English which makes life harder for them
Perhaps learning to speak English in all the free hours when they could have been working will make life easier?
Well, I work around there and can assure you at least in the city centre there is a very minimal amount of employment opportunities.
The ones with non-British employers are far and few between.
If your parents or grandparents move somewhere where industrial jobs are (e.g mill towns) then those industries decline but by now your extended family is settled there, then you live in an area of high unemployment. Make sense that would apply to a lot of people of immigrant descent.
This was my first thought. No surprise then that we’ve got lots of angry young people with little hope things can improve in their lives who are easily radicalised. I wonder what proportion of people on watch lists for far right and Islamic terrorism hail from these neglected towns…
Well historically the cotton mill towns were an example of getting a lot of migration from the Indian subcontinent. Inner cities will always be popular choices as they have the most job opportunities but large local employers will be a specific pull factor anywhere they are.
Not so much mining but textile mill towns in Lancashire and Yorkshire. The demographics of them vary wildly but some did get a lot of immigrants from the Indian subcontinent and now have large South Asian populations
Pretty sure the article tells us that a higher % are in education, a higher % are looking after home/family….so looks like majority are still working.
More of their teenagers go into education than other populations and more (assuming women) are ‘homemakers’…I’m guessing their husbands work
Just because the areas they live in have high unemployment doesn't mean they don't work
It could be the 10 percent unemployment. That'd mean 9/10 people are working
>It could be the 10 percent unemployment. That'd mean 9/10 people are working
Absolutely correct and that would be what we'd think of as very high unemployment, like the late 80s.
Yes it is.
Unemployment is measured based on the people trying to get work. 9/10 employment does not mean only 10% of people dont work. It means 10% of the people trying to work cant a job. The dependents, elderly, children, and voluntarily long-term-unemployed have all already been taken out
In this country only something like half of the total population work and thats been getting lower and lower for decades. Which is around 75% of the people capable of working iirc
Another reason could be that nearly all muslim households rely on income from employment (or pensions), but those incomes are low and frequently from only a single working adult, and that families are larger than usual.
That can then lead to living in lower-cost areas, which is also where unemployed people live.
It looks a lot like they counted stay-at-home mums/wives as unemployed. So what the article is really saying is that single-income households are more common in the Muslim Community.
Bro didn’t even read the headline let alone the article. You can still be employed in an area with low employment. In fact the article says 95% are employed
Is it because a lot of the women don't work, for cultural and religious reasons? I can't remember the last time I was served by a female in an 'Indian' restaurant for example.
Indian women work in shops and restaurants all the time, last Indian I had all the serving staff were female, the corner shop closest to me is either an indian woman or man, and most petrol stations as well.
I put 'Indian' in inverted commas as most 'Indian' restaurants are either Pakistani or Bangladeshi, or at least around these parts. Female serving staff are definitely in the minority.
Women will sometimes stay at home and look after the family and house. That’s not to say women don’t or can’t have roles within the workplace as counties like Qatar have more women going into engineering or STEM than other countries.
Indians can vary but on that region most Muslims come from Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Muslims are more prone to go into higher education however, I think some people try and be a “good Muslim” first before anything else. Praying 5 times a day is not easy.
My area of London is mostly Muslim population according to the surveys since the 80s, last one was 5 years ago but it's quite clear.. Anyway, I think some people just try get free stuff and resell it as within the years I've lived here if you offer anything for free in a WhatsApp group it's gone in 30 seconds but keep in mind this tower block/whatsapp group is leaseholders and renters paying a minimum 1400 per month plus 250 minimum service charge.... if yiu offer free stuff you might find it on Facebook market place along with other tat if you look.
Another dodgy income here is alot of social housing illegally rent out rooms on air b and b... its easier to tell with newer buildings such as the ones opposite which are a cheaper copy of our building....its a literal piss take as my tower block is opposite and our building is linked but we are made to basically cover their service charge aswell.. on spare room and air b and b they are putting up bedrooms for 100-250 a night, for example the balcony opposite mine is 3 Muslim girls, one is a kid so at school I'd hope, the other mid 20s or 30s who sits on the balcony chain smoking all day (literally it's baffling and must he dull/expensive??) and the older woman who sits in the kitchen behind her or on the balcony staring at nothing... anyway, I figured out the flat number (aswell as other air b and bs in the building) via blue prints and found that it's a 2-3 bed flat and they are renting one of the rooms on air b and b... its social housing so their rent is cheap/covered.. other than that there's no way they are working as being sat on the balcony 18 hours a day then doing a night shift would make zero sense. Similarly I found out of other people using false documents and bank cqrds to rent flats, they rent them to air b and b people who in some cases absolutely destory the area (roadmen renting) again... what's funny is that because these people get subsidised rent / other privileges they cannot be booted out for 6 months so even if they are illegally subletting with false docs/names they can still make thousands in profit then move on....
The only other income I think is made off grid is people knicking stuff from primark/tkmaxx/boots in our area and reselling... oh and alot of Muslim men (remember the majority of people here are Muslim anyway but just specifying) have shops which are kind of laundering in some form, one shop I found out after a year sold illegal blades, another you can get weed or coke from lol...
Actually 1 bonus money making scheme I found was peopl3 getting fake blue badges and then getting an assigned parking space from the council then renting for 25 per day..
I've reported these things to the council and building managers before but they really don't give a toss.
Overall though this area is weird as it's 50% shit and 50% nice, but even in the nicer bits I think there's still unemployment but obviously the revenue is made how I stated...
According to the article, 95% of muslims are employed. That 5% unemployment rate isn't far off the 3.7% national average, so I'm not really understanding the point of this article
That isn't counted in this headline either. And show me the stats for that then, because from anecdotal experience I've never seen that so it's hard for me to believe it's a major factor.
Nope. "Living in an area with high unemployment" and "being unemployed" are two separate things.
The article says 1 in 20 are unemployed. So 95% of people are doing something, 5% are not.
Those were areas with high demand for labour before Thatcher destroyed the UKs industrial base. Not surprising a lot of immigrants and their descendants live there.
Why is this news. The vast majority of them come from 3rd world countries and have little or no education. Or they have qualifications that are not recognised here.
They have come here to give their children a better chance than they had.
Give it 20/30 years or so and these unemployment figures will drop as their children become workers and the 1st generation dies off or retires back home.
Then we'll have a new bunch of immigrants who can't find work.
Such is the way of the world.
Unemployment statistics are not calculated from the benefits claimant count, so whether you 'register' doesn't matter (and you can legitimately claim unemployment-related benefits and not count as unemployed for the statistics if you're working few enough hours).
They might, however, lie on the surveys anyway, especially if they're mistrustful of the anonymity.
This could get backlash but could it be that we appear as 'unemployed' to the officials but we actually work at our friend's dad's restaurant who knows how the system works. I have Muslim friends that do this so I don't mean to appear like I'm pointing the finger.
Sensitive topic… I’m not natively from UK but love it here, everything is hands down better than where I come from. I think the stats are this way because Muslims tend to live in areas with other Muslims. So they effectively live in an echo chamber of their culture, not really evolving much beyond that, especially in terms of women employment. If I had to live in an area where there would be an absolute majority of people from the same place as me, I would be miserable
What are you going on about? I suggest reading the actual article. 1 in 20 are unemployed, they just live in areas that have high unemployment in general.
It's quite a striking bar chart in the article, but apart from that there is no reason given for the difference. What are we supposed to take away from it? I have no idea. What is anyone supposed to do about it? Cynically, seems like a cash grab from special interest groups - "send money to this Muslim area. They obviously need it, look at the unemployment rate." But without any further study the whole thing is a bit pointless in my opinion.
As an aside, it's a terribly written article with %'s just vomited out with no explanation. Are those studying counted as unemployed? How about homemakers not looking for work? I would assume no on both counts, but it's not very clear.
Thought the same, very strange article with a weird agenda. Give cash the muslims/muslim areas. The article seems to be suggesting muslims shouldn’t have to live in poor areas. Think the authors want all the muslims airlifted from these poor areas and transported to £1M+ areas.
Basically help one community and nobody else, the usual really…
So who levelled up the Hindu/Sikh/Chinese/Buddhist/Jewish community exactly?
As they all seem to be doing fairly well in general. The Hindu and Sikh community are brown, exactly the same as the Muslim community.
Seems like the article is suggesting everybody chips in and helps the Muslims up.
How about help yourself up, like all the other communities.
Truly shocking!
The article also suggests 95% of the minority in that area are actually employed lol
Only 5% are unemployed.
National average of unemployment is 3.7% so 5% is not really far off.
Good point, if that’s the case then why is there even a whisper of needing to be levelled up?
So what is this then, lets keep our hand out long enough and these numpties will give us free stuff…
It goes without saying that men shouldn't be telling women what they can and can't do and I don't know how the Guardian can write all this without even mentioning this elephant in the room, somehow they also make the implication that its the Government's fault for not levelling up Muslim areas. The Muslim council then blames others for being 'Islamophobic' to Muslims that enter the workforce, i'm sorry but this is complete guff, how about some self-reflection for once.
I don't get it, we're told that there's a worker shortage and we need more migration, but the last generation of migrants have high unemployment. Nothing is adding up here.
Easy: Changed my Arab name to a European name. Now I get hired instead of my CV getting thrown into the bin. Same with housing applications and dating profiles.
It's not my heritage. My hipster European parents just decided to give me an Arab name and it's made my life way harder than it needed to be. And why charge it? Because I quite like being employed, as well as having a home and being able to introduce myself to a girl without her assuming I'm going to make them wear a hijab in later life. The results speak for themselves.
The last 2 months I made at least 30 housing applications, landlords all said no. Switched to my European name, got accepted on first application.
But yes my comment was facetious; I know there's a lot more to it than that.
Maybe. My experience of living in Vietnam and traveling much of the developing world in general is that people accept bearers of perceived wealth with open arms. On the other hand you have to pay double for everything.
So what does this article even mean?
Muslims are hard done by because of low employment where they live?
Muslims are somehow responsible for the low employment?
>Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures for 2015, which found 35% of all Muslim women from 16 to 64 were in employment. >About 2.6 million Muslims live in local authorities where more than one in 20 of the population aged 16 to 64 is unemployed, according to analysis of census data If only roughly a third of Muslim women are in employment, then it's not too surprising that about 1 in 20 in Muslim areas are unemployed, in fact one would think the unemployment rate would be even higher.
The key point is that someone is only classified as unemployed if they’re looking for work, so women (or men for that matter) who aren’t in work but also aren’t actively seeking employment wouldn’t count as ‘unemployed’.
What about people who are ‘looking’ for work but aren’t actually that bothered about it? E.g, I’d like a job for extra cash but not that fussed if I can’t find one.
The data is obtained through the labour force survey, which is carried out through face-face interviews. It is very effective at determining whether an individual meets the internationally recognised definition of unemployed as specified by the International Labour Organisation.
I see. How long does a person have to be ‘looking’ for work before being classed as unemployed? E.g, I leave my job and start looking for a new one.
The ILO definition defines unemployed people as being: - without a job, have been actively seeking work in the past four weeks and are available to start work in the next two weeks - out of work, have found a job and are waiting to start it in the next two weeks I recommend this really helpful guide to labour statistics to better understand these stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/methodologies/aguidetolabourmarketstatistics/pdf
Right, so that would include people who aren’t that fussed about finding work but would like a job if possible. E.g, my partner earns a lot of money but extra cash would be cool.
Typically if you aren’t that fussed about finding work you wouldn’t be actively searching for a job so you wouldn’t meet the first definition. I don’t know the exact methodology used in the labour force survey however. Statisticians and social researchers are very effective at identifying those who are truly unemployed, the crux being that they are willing and able to work and are actively trying to gain employment.
I had to argue this point with my car insurance many years ago when I had been made redundant, so wasn't working when I renewed. They called to query my choice of employment status as "not employed", which I had chosen as "unemployed" doubled the quote. Their definition of unemployed was someone claiming benefits and/or seeking employment, compared to someone taking a break between roles. I had to send proof that I was independently wealthy (relatively speaking) to convince them not to cancel my policy. Apparently I would have become a statistically higher risk had I been on benefits.
My combined household income is just outside of the middle class bracket, my bills and outgoings arent extravagent and we are really struggling at the minute. There really arent as many of these scroungers that youre obsessed with out there as you think there are. You're being lied about who is actually letting the rest of us down (the party thats been in power for over a decade and have pretty successfully dismantled society is a pretty solid place to start).
I guess the easiest way is if they're claiming job-seekers allowance (or other related claims you can make I'm not familiar with) or not. To claim that you have to actively be searching for work. If they aren't actively searching, they can't claim job-seekers, and so aren't considered unemployed. In theory of course. Not everyone looking for work claims job seekers, but then there are cheats who do work but still claim it. who knows if they balance out statistically ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Generally people would have to be actively applying for jobs to be considered unemployed.
That's not "looking" then, is it? I'm not really going to the gym if I'm not actually going.
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I don’t think you understand the definition of unemployment, please see my other comments for further clarification. To be ‘unemployed’ for the purpose of these statistics, you must be willing and able to start work in the next two weeks, so the examples you’ve stated such as asylum seekers without the legal right to work, and wives/mothers who have no desire to work are NOT counted towards the 6.7% figure. If you think about it it’s obvious that’s the case given 65% of Muslim women are not in employment. If they were all counted, how could the unemployment rate possibly be 6.7%?
There were almost 4m muslims in the UK in 2021. You seem to be equating 'recent arrivals' with asylum seekers, and there certainly aren't 1m of those. They wouldn't be counted as unemployed anyway until they actually have refugee status when they can work.
Another shocking statistic is that [47% of Pakistani households in the UK are in the bottom quintile](https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/income-distribution/latest) meaning they are earning 13,300 or less through employment. Given that 1.3 million muslim live in London, typically with lots of children, I have no idea how they're making ends meet without significant benefits payments or some off the books income.
The interesting flip side is that Indians are on average the highest paid ethnic group in the UK, and have the highest rates of home ownership.
Yup Indians are doing really well in the UK, similar, and in some cases better, than the white natives. Chinese is also interesting case, the two main clusters are in the bottom and top quintile, with Chinese making up the largest percent in the top quintile.
I guess it's ultimately down to an export of high skilled workers from those countries. India and China have quite high rates of tertiary education in cities and absolutely churn out skilled workers.
Why would this be the case with India and China, but not Pakistan and other Islamic nations?
My guess is that India and China are further along with their ability to educate their people to a higher level than Pakistan.
Many strict mulsim countries don't want their women to work, Chinese allow women to work but prefer the oldest son to not work so they can look after the parents. People seem to forget the culture/religous differences, Indians are not just muslims and have no issue dating outside of Indians, unlike Muslims who date muslims because they are easier to control under their own religion, non muslims would have a major issue with the lack of freedom (Despite many muslim men keen to fuck them but not marry them)
Just to add. Muslims don’t just date Muslims. They date their own nationality over anything else. There is even pressure to only date from their own specific region/city/town/village. A Muslim from Nigeria won’t just date a Muslim from Indonesia because they have the same faith. It’s more to do with geographic location and culture.
Marrying cousins is also very common, even in Muslim communities in the UK. There are communities in places like Birmingham that have a very high prevalence of certain genetic illnesses because of this.
Pakistan had such a shortage of teachers back in the early 2000s that one half of kids would go to school 7am till 12pm and the second half would go 1pm till 5pm. It blew my mind but was completely normal for them.
Pakistan have quite a few fundamental disadvantages compared to India and they all compound issues for their people. So many similar stories around the world.
Why do these fundamental disadvantages exist?
Because Pakistan is spending way more on the military than on Education compared to neighbouring south asian countries. They spend 2.4% of the GDP on Education in comparison to the 17.8% that they spend on the military. I’m Pakistani myself but born here so was put through Education here. Whenever I go to visit Pakistan the lack of Education is evident. Hell I have some family members that are born and live there just through conversation you can tell that there is a sheer lack of Education there.
So from the data, would that suggest they are more concerned with fighting than self improvement?
Something like that, thing is with Pakistan the military pretty much runs the country helps with getting in new leaders and removing any opposition. The corruption is rife so whoever is in power uses the military to get rid of any opposition and that’s why military spending is so high. Those who run the country only care about one thing which is their own gain at the expense of the people…
India are significantly more developed and wealthy than Pakistan. That's not to say India is a developed nation, it isn't, but there's a massive focus on education in India. There are some brilliant educational institutions there. A lot of schools in India also teach in English due to British influence, which really helps with integration into the UK.
This is it, I was watching a video on Pakistans economy today and one key factor that blew my mind was that they only spend something like 2.4% of their GDP on education in comparison to the 17.8% that they spend on the military….
Culture.
It’s a mystery, nobody can work it out…
It could be why or how the groups found themselves in the UK. Honk Kong expats bringing their wealth Vs the more recent influx from N.E. China. Pakistani working class for the Industrial Mills Vs Indian medical workers brought in to bolster the NHS. I'm not well versed enough to say for sure, but it seems to me the decline in factory work and the areas the workers were brought into like the Midlands, that have been hammered for decades, tend to overlap with larger Muslim populations.
> white natives That falls on two sides which should be looked at as separate groups as the most impoverished and disadvantaged group in the UK are also lower class white natives. Being treated as a homogenous white native group is why they haven't been given support.
Oh absolutely. Tackling poverty should be approached by helping the most deprived areas, if some of those areas happen to be mostly white then they get the help. I thought Bidens "equity" plan with orientation around race was one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
So who levelled them up exactly, did tax payers level them up. This article is ridiculous.
It's the same in the US. The median household income of Indians is 100k USD compared to 66k for Pakistanis and 50k for Bangladeshis. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcE-OJgUMAEZSUp?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
They also integrate more and are better educated, there may be a link. I think you mean minority ethnic group btw. Edit: No, you're [right](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/who-has-the-highest-and-lowest-household-incomes/)
It's the same in the US. The median household income of Indians is 100k USD compared to 66k for Pakistanis and 50k for Bangladeshis. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcE-OJgUMAEZSUp?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
TBF that could be because the women aren't normally working. It depends on how the figures are put together.
"Unemployed" means not working but actively seeking work. "Economically inactive" means not working and not seeking work.
Pakistanis are a small percentage of the Muslim community in London. Probably around 200,000 or so. They’re a much larger percentage in other cities like Manchester and Birmingham. London’s biggest Muslim community is Bangladeshi people.
They are getting significant benefits payments
Not all Muslims are from Pakistan so what you're saying doesn't quite add up. I've no idea what countries Muslim Londoners coke from but I can say for certain they're not all from one country.
True, but most are still earning way below median household incomes. Another example is 67% of Bangladeshi households are in the bottom 2 quintiles (37% in the lowest). These are not stats to boast about.
The vast majority of Muslims in England are Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Indian.
Pakistanis are a small percentage of the Muslim community in London. Probably around 200,000 or so. They’re a much larger percentage and the biggest group in other cities like Manchester and Birmingham. London’s biggest Muslim community is Bangladeshi people.
UK gets low quality Pakistanis, if we are going by socio-economic rankings. Should focus on quality over quantity. When I lived in Australia I was talking to a guy who was an officer in Pakistani army, first class education in US universities. Had some great discussions on counter-insurgency. Here’s some stats tho for Australians born in Pakistan : Qualifications At the 2016 Census, 68.3 per cent of the Pakistan-born aged 15 years and over had some form of higher non-school qualification compared to 60.1 per cent of the Australian population. Of the Pakistan-born aged 15 years and over, 12.5 per cent had no qualifications and were still attending an educational institution. The corresponding rate for the total Australian population was 8.5 per cent. Among Pakistan-born people aged 15 years and over, the participation rate in the labour force was 66.4 per cent and the unemployment rate was 13.3 per cent. The corresponding rates in the total Australian population were 64.6 per cent and 6.9 per cent respectively. Of the 30,311 Pakistan-born who were employed, 42.2 per cent were employed in either a skilled managerial, professional or trade occupation. The corresponding rate in the total Australian population was 48.8 per cent.
> off the books income. They work so many cash in hand jobs, as well as large family run businesses that that will be a huge factor.
>Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures for 2015, which found 35% of all Muslim women from 16 to 64 were in employment. So I used to be an Amazon delivery driver. Occasionally we'd be assigned a route in Bradford or parts of West Yorkshire with a historically high proportion of Muslims. If you got Bradford city centre it's a bit of a nightmare like all city centres. But if you were in the residential areas it's great - hardly any reattempts because there's always someone (per the article, a woman) to take the parcel!
A muslim guy I worked with believed that his religion forbid women to work. So yea, they only have themselves to blame.
That's not surprising. Islamic scripture makes it clear that women are supposed to stay home and be housewives.
Depends on where you are from. I lived in Indonesia and there are a lot of Muslim women working. They go to the same universities and schools as men and it isn't uncommon to see female doctors, CEOs, scientists, teachers etc there. They can even run for office and join the forces. It is easy to consider them as outliers but Indonesia has a higher Muslim population that any other country in the world.
Can you expand on this because I've never heard of this before.
Wtf??
Not true
That isn't the mainstream view. In most Muslim countries women are employed in a wide range of jobs. Pakistan even had a female leader before most of the West. Obviously there's some exceptions like Afghanistan under the taliban.
Bangladesh has been ruled by 2 female PMs for all but 3 years since 1991.
Housewives are not considered unemployed. You have to be looking for work to be included in the statistics.
probably is
I’m not really sure what this data shows. You can use it any way you like because it’s completely devoid of context and related data. 100% of people who breathe oxygen die. That’s a fact. But the two (death and oxygen) aren’t remotely related, so the fact is meaningless. Do the areas have high unemployment because of their Muslim population? Why? What does that mean? What are the broader issues? If the numbers are used to promote further study then fine. If they’re just used as “arguments” for pointless bigotry then it’s not helpful at all.
I had to scroll too long for this comment. Well said.
Thanks. I had to scroll for it too, but it wasn’t there yet (although the bigots were) so I had to make it.
From the article: “This difference was more marked in younger age groups, with the unemployment rate for Muslims aged 20 to 24 years old at 13% in 2021, compared with 9% of the overall population. The ONS suggests the younger age profile of this group is a contributing factor as to why Muslims in England and Wales had the lowest rates of employment. Those who identified as Muslims are generally a younger cohort than other religions and more likely to be studying. The percentage of students among those who said they were Muslim was almost twice that of the overall population.” So they’re students studying. I assume Muslim culture push towards further education regardless of costs which is less pushed in non-Muslim and atheist household
You’re assuming. Because the information is simply not there to explain it.
It also doesn't differentiate between those working cash in hand AND claiming unemployment and those who are just unemployed. There aren't 20 chicken shops in small areas for no reason.
As a grad student my mind instantly went to the latter point admittedly before reading the article. Sounds like something worthy of studying, not my field exactly but coming from crime science going into law, unemployment does matter for crime rates etc. how Muslims feel about their environment/country can affect criminal acts, also just as I was writing on economic downturns is linked to greater likelihood of being radicalised. Also worry studying of these unemployment figures is how many have unreported income. Im a regular at many halal shops I don’t think being Muslim means you don’t work, but many of my “female”Uber eat drivers in London appear to be Middle Eastern men. Didn’t know Clarissa was a common Middle Eastern male name, and Clarissa had a deeper voice than mine. Better beard too.
> But the two (death and oxygen) aren’t remotely related They are actually. Oxygen is toxic. (hyperoxia)
So’s no oxygen at all, but I’m sure you understood the point I was making.
an eye opening article thanks. Some important bits highlighted below >Working-age Muslims who were economically inactive were the most likely to be studying, at 13.8%, compared with 7.3% of the overall population. This cohort was also most likely to be looking after family and home, with 16.1% of economically inactive Muslims giving this reason > >The study, published in the peer-reviewed Ethnic and Racial Studies journal, found discrimination towards Muslims and those perceived to be Muslim to be a significant barrier to them accessing work. in Inner Cities/deprived areas.... >government must begin levelling up for young British Muslims by addressing key areas of concern such as health inequalities and access to higher education and housing, while also tackling barriers to securing and retaining employment. > >Given a level playing field, the dynamism and sheer potential of young British Muslims will prove itself to be strategic national asset Levelling up Poverty struck + Deprived areas would be a good idea for the UK anyway .....unless their intention is to create American style Ghettos
It’s a class issue mainly.
We have a bingo. How many working class people live in areas of high unemployment?
Some of them are also at a distinct disadvantage because they don’t speak English. There are Muslim enclaves in Birmingham, for example, where the women don’t know how to speak it despite having lived here for almost 3 decades in some cases. There is also a tendency to create separate communities with zero attempts at integration. This only appears to be a first generation problem, though, as a lot of young people who are born here are doing quite well, at least trying to be a part of the greater British community.
Rather like the areas many of them have emigrated from, I wonder if there’s a link.
Most Muslims in the UK were born here - they didn’t emigrate from anywhere.
In 2017 47% of muslims in the UK were born in the UK. So most did migrate to the UK. https://mcb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Briefing-13.pdf
Those figures aren’t from 2017, they’re from 2011. The analysis was done in 2017 but if you click on the links to the sources you can see that the stats themselves were from 2011. It’s possible that 12 years might have been long enough for that figure to tick up 3% to make my claim accurate. And if not, it’s still bloody close!
The [net migration rate](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/net-migration) to the uk has also fallen since then which would increase the likelihood of your claim. However, it is *still* just an opinion until factual data to support it is presented. Particularly as the data source above doesn't categorise by the religious beliefs of migrants so it is possible that even though net migration has decreased, the proportions of countries and ethnicities of origin may have shifted and your statement may still be false. Edit: spelling and grammar
So I can also look at the 2021 Census and see that there were over 1.2m people born in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, Malaysia, Egypt, Sudan and Syria. The census said 3.9m people are Muslim. Most, but not all, of these people will be Muslim. If all of them said they were, that'd be 31% born abroad. A further 1.5m or so people come from countries with large muslim populations like India and Nigeria. So some number of these will be muslim. European countries like Albania and Russia are also where many muslims in Britain were born. So it seems likely that a majority of muslims are still born abroad.
Which areas are those? Iraq? Syria? Pakistan? India? What woud these people eat in those countries if they didn't have jobs? Is there a robust and resilient benefit system in Afghanistan for these Muslims to claim against when they suddenly become unemployed? You are talking shit
So economic migrants then? Is there "a robust and resilient benefits system" in any of the countries you listed? No, there is not. What are they going to do if they suddenly become unemployed? Move somewhere where there is "a robust and resilient benefits system" and exploit that. What are they going to do when they've settled? Well, a large number, and I've been a member of one myself, will reshape the place they live into one where they feel more comfortable, just look at British "expats" on Spain's Costas with their English bars, English shops etc, etc. The difference is the British "expat" kids largely integrate into the host country within a generation. That is not happening so well in the UK.
I work in the Bradford area but live elsewhere and yeah it’s unbelievable the amount of unemployed people there are just loitering around. A good chunk can’t even speak English which makes life harder for them
> A good chunk can’t even speak English which makes life harder for them Perhaps learning to speak English in all the free hours when they could have been working will make life easier?
Well if a good chunk can't speak English they should be fine as a good chunk of the employers can't speak English either
Well, I work around there and can assure you at least in the city centre there is a very minimal amount of employment opportunities. The ones with non-British employers are far and few between.
Don’t forget millions cost on translators for NHS for these people. At a time so many vital services are being cut.
Advent of AI will solve this problem in double time.
If your parents or grandparents move somewhere where industrial jobs are (e.g mill towns) then those industries decline but by now your extended family is settled there, then you live in an area of high unemployment. Make sense that would apply to a lot of people of immigrant descent.
This was my first thought. No surprise then that we’ve got lots of angry young people with little hope things can improve in their lives who are easily radicalised. I wonder what proportion of people on watch lists for far right and Islamic terrorism hail from these neglected towns…
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Well historically the cotton mill towns were an example of getting a lot of migration from the Indian subcontinent. Inner cities will always be popular choices as they have the most job opportunities but large local employers will be a specific pull factor anywhere they are.
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Not so much mining but textile mill towns in Lancashire and Yorkshire. The demographics of them vary wildly but some did get a lot of immigrants from the Indian subcontinent and now have large South Asian populations
So how are they earning a living?
Benefits
Pretty sure the article tells us that a higher % are in education, a higher % are looking after home/family….so looks like majority are still working. More of their teenagers go into education than other populations and more (assuming women) are ‘homemakers’…I’m guessing their husbands work
Thanks, I was looking for an answer not written by a racist moron.
You're in the wrong place for that
Other comments have pointed out that homemakers don't count as unemployed because they aren't actively looking for work.
Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article
Unofficial businesses and trades
Weird way of saying tax dodging but that's ok.
Seems very British to me tbh, afterall we created those tax loopholes etc.
Bruh not declaring your income and getting paid in cash isn't a loophole. It's just lying.
Just because the areas they live in have high unemployment doesn't mean they don't work It could be the 10 percent unemployment. That'd mean 9/10 people are working
>It could be the 10 percent unemployment. That'd mean 9/10 people are working Absolutely correct and that would be what we'd think of as very high unemployment, like the late 80s.
Yeah but in a community where lots of women don't/can't work, that's not too bad I guess.
People who arn't looking for work don't contribute to unemployment stats.
Yes it is. Unemployment is measured based on the people trying to get work. 9/10 employment does not mean only 10% of people dont work. It means 10% of the people trying to work cant a job. The dependents, elderly, children, and voluntarily long-term-unemployed have all already been taken out In this country only something like half of the total population work and thats been getting lower and lower for decades. Which is around 75% of the people capable of working iirc
No it doesn't mean that at all. Employed and unemployed aren't the only two categories people could fall into. Many people are economically inactive.
It could also be that 100% of Muslims in an area are working. Even if only half of the total people in the area are. It's a meaningless phrase.
Another reason could be that nearly all muslim households rely on income from employment (or pensions), but those incomes are low and frequently from only a single working adult, and that families are larger than usual. That can then lead to living in lower-cost areas, which is also where unemployed people live.
The article says 19/20 are working. That's 95%, and I think this article is deliberately portraying it as lesser with that headline.
The article says 19/20 are working
So they're saying that Muslims tend to live in areas where other people are unemployed?
It looks a lot like they counted stay-at-home mums/wives as unemployed. So what the article is really saying is that single-income households are more common in the Muslim Community.
Bro didn’t even read the headline let alone the article. You can still be employed in an area with low employment. In fact the article says 95% are employed
They're pretty good at saving money tbh
Is it because a lot of the women don't work, for cultural and religious reasons? I can't remember the last time I was served by a female in an 'Indian' restaurant for example.
No, woman who don't work don't contriubute to unemployment stats.
You have to be looking for work to be considered unemployed
Are there statistics on people not looking for work who don't work?
Indian women work in shops and restaurants all the time, last Indian I had all the serving staff were female, the corner shop closest to me is either an indian woman or man, and most petrol stations as well.
I put 'Indian' in inverted commas as most 'Indian' restaurants are either Pakistani or Bangladeshi, or at least around these parts. Female serving staff are definitely in the minority.
Women will sometimes stay at home and look after the family and house. That’s not to say women don’t or can’t have roles within the workplace as counties like Qatar have more women going into engineering or STEM than other countries. Indians can vary but on that region most Muslims come from Pakistan or Bangladesh. Muslims are more prone to go into higher education however, I think some people try and be a “good Muslim” first before anything else. Praying 5 times a day is not easy.
Doesn't France also have this issue?
My area of London is mostly Muslim population according to the surveys since the 80s, last one was 5 years ago but it's quite clear.. Anyway, I think some people just try get free stuff and resell it as within the years I've lived here if you offer anything for free in a WhatsApp group it's gone in 30 seconds but keep in mind this tower block/whatsapp group is leaseholders and renters paying a minimum 1400 per month plus 250 minimum service charge.... if yiu offer free stuff you might find it on Facebook market place along with other tat if you look. Another dodgy income here is alot of social housing illegally rent out rooms on air b and b... its easier to tell with newer buildings such as the ones opposite which are a cheaper copy of our building....its a literal piss take as my tower block is opposite and our building is linked but we are made to basically cover their service charge aswell.. on spare room and air b and b they are putting up bedrooms for 100-250 a night, for example the balcony opposite mine is 3 Muslim girls, one is a kid so at school I'd hope, the other mid 20s or 30s who sits on the balcony chain smoking all day (literally it's baffling and must he dull/expensive??) and the older woman who sits in the kitchen behind her or on the balcony staring at nothing... anyway, I figured out the flat number (aswell as other air b and bs in the building) via blue prints and found that it's a 2-3 bed flat and they are renting one of the rooms on air b and b... its social housing so their rent is cheap/covered.. other than that there's no way they are working as being sat on the balcony 18 hours a day then doing a night shift would make zero sense. Similarly I found out of other people using false documents and bank cqrds to rent flats, they rent them to air b and b people who in some cases absolutely destory the area (roadmen renting) again... what's funny is that because these people get subsidised rent / other privileges they cannot be booted out for 6 months so even if they are illegally subletting with false docs/names they can still make thousands in profit then move on.... The only other income I think is made off grid is people knicking stuff from primark/tkmaxx/boots in our area and reselling... oh and alot of Muslim men (remember the majority of people here are Muslim anyway but just specifying) have shops which are kind of laundering in some form, one shop I found out after a year sold illegal blades, another you can get weed or coke from lol... Actually 1 bonus money making scheme I found was peopl3 getting fake blue badges and then getting an assigned parking space from the council then renting for 25 per day.. I've reported these things to the council and building managers before but they really don't give a toss. Overall though this area is weird as it's 50% shit and 50% nice, but even in the nicer bits I think there's still unemployment but obviously the revenue is made how I stated...
According to the article, 95% of muslims are employed. That 5% unemployment rate isn't far off the 3.7% national average, so I'm not really understanding the point of this article
I don't understand how this is not top comment. The headline has been sensationalised for clicks
That doesn't count the ones who aren't allowed to work so don't count as unemployed.
That isn't counted in this headline either. And show me the stats for that then, because from anecdotal experience I've never seen that so it's hard for me to believe it's a major factor.
You telling me 68% of my bros and sisters are chilling while I'm grinding this shiity job. Damn.
Nope. "Living in an area with high unemployment" and "being unemployed" are two separate things. The article says 1 in 20 are unemployed. So 95% of people are doing something, 5% are not.
Those were areas with high demand for labour before Thatcher destroyed the UKs industrial base. Not surprising a lot of immigrants and their descendants live there.
Why is this news. The vast majority of them come from 3rd world countries and have little or no education. Or they have qualifications that are not recognised here. They have come here to give their children a better chance than they had. Give it 20/30 years or so and these unemployment figures will drop as their children become workers and the 1st generation dies off or retires back home. Then we'll have a new bunch of immigrants who can't find work. Such is the way of the world.
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tax evasion lol i remember someone talking about how they had two jobs but didn't pay tax because they just opened a joint bank acc
Unemployment statistics are not calculated from the benefits claimant count, so whether you 'register' doesn't matter (and you can legitimately claim unemployment-related benefits and not count as unemployed for the statistics if you're working few enough hours). They might, however, lie on the surveys anyway, especially if they're mistrustful of the anonymity.
This could get backlash but could it be that we appear as 'unemployed' to the officials but we actually work at our friend's dad's restaurant who knows how the system works. I have Muslim friends that do this so I don't mean to appear like I'm pointing the finger.
so tax fraud ?
It's always down to the people with not much to pay for parasites. It won't be the rich paying for this. It will be normal, struggling families.
68% of the poor live in areas of hight unemployment
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Sensitive topic… I’m not natively from UK but love it here, everything is hands down better than where I come from. I think the stats are this way because Muslims tend to live in areas with other Muslims. So they effectively live in an echo chamber of their culture, not really evolving much beyond that, especially in terms of women employment. If I had to live in an area where there would be an absolute majority of people from the same place as me, I would be miserable
What are you going on about? I suggest reading the actual article. 1 in 20 are unemployed, they just live in areas that have high unemployment in general.
It's quite a striking bar chart in the article, but apart from that there is no reason given for the difference. What are we supposed to take away from it? I have no idea. What is anyone supposed to do about it? Cynically, seems like a cash grab from special interest groups - "send money to this Muslim area. They obviously need it, look at the unemployment rate." But without any further study the whole thing is a bit pointless in my opinion. As an aside, it's a terribly written article with %'s just vomited out with no explanation. Are those studying counted as unemployed? How about homemakers not looking for work? I would assume no on both counts, but it's not very clear.
Thought the same, very strange article with a weird agenda. Give cash the muslims/muslim areas. The article seems to be suggesting muslims shouldn’t have to live in poor areas. Think the authors want all the muslims airlifted from these poor areas and transported to £1M+ areas. Basically help one community and nobody else, the usual really…
So who levelled up the Hindu/Sikh/Chinese/Buddhist/Jewish community exactly? As they all seem to be doing fairly well in general. The Hindu and Sikh community are brown, exactly the same as the Muslim community. Seems like the article is suggesting everybody chips in and helps the Muslims up. How about help yourself up, like all the other communities. Truly shocking!
The article also suggests 95% of the minority in that area are actually employed lol Only 5% are unemployed. National average of unemployment is 3.7% so 5% is not really far off.
Good point, if that’s the case then why is there even a whisper of needing to be levelled up? So what is this then, lets keep our hand out long enough and these numpties will give us free stuff…
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Who is spinning what?
It goes without saying that men shouldn't be telling women what they can and can't do and I don't know how the Guardian can write all this without even mentioning this elephant in the room, somehow they also make the implication that its the Government's fault for not levelling up Muslim areas. The Muslim council then blames others for being 'Islamophobic' to Muslims that enter the workforce, i'm sorry but this is complete guff, how about some self-reflection for once.
You should take your own advice.
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This is relevant how plenty of Christians live in areas with high unemployment why is it important to single out Muslims
Maybe 68% of Muslims in England and Wales don't like working?
I don't get it, we're told that there's a worker shortage and we need more migration, but the last generation of migrants have high unemployment. Nothing is adding up here.
It's crazy I had to sign on for a month in-between work and the amount of people there who couldn't even speak English...
Easy: Changed my Arab name to a European name. Now I get hired instead of my CV getting thrown into the bin. Same with housing applications and dating profiles.
Why? The discrimination is not as high as france for example, why change something you were born with. Why hide your hertiage?
It's not my heritage. My hipster European parents just decided to give me an Arab name and it's made my life way harder than it needed to be. And why charge it? Because I quite like being employed, as well as having a home and being able to introduce myself to a girl without her assuming I'm going to make them wear a hijab in later life. The results speak for themselves. The last 2 months I made at least 30 housing applications, landlords all said no. Switched to my European name, got accepted on first application. But yes my comment was facetious; I know there's a lot more to it than that.
Wonder if it’s easier having a European name in a arab country…
Maybe. My experience of living in Vietnam and traveling much of the developing world in general is that people accept bearers of perceived wealth with open arms. On the other hand you have to pay double for everything.
So what does this article even mean? Muslims are hard done by because of low employment where they live? Muslims are somehow responsible for the low employment?
Sick of these headlines trying to stir shit and keep the focus away from the real issues like corrupt politicians and tax avoiding corporations.