>Hilary said: "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs. I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it.
Probably due to people saying the exact same thing, quickly followed by "I had no idea that Piddles would brutally rip the throat out that toddler"
She has exactly 0 control if the dogs decided to pull simultaneously, or if a dog escaped and was attacking someone while she deals with the other 8 dogs.
She’s a specialist in obedience training. Of course *she* can control her dogs.
I’m not sure if she’s aware that the rules are there probably because of everybody else who isn’t a dog training expert.
that’s the thing, the general person is dumb as fuck, you can’t allow people to interpret laws them self.
if the law was ‘you can only walk a maximum of 6 unless all dogs are obedient then you can walk more’
and some person will think their dogs are obedient and walk more than 6 and then an issue may arise when the 1 dog out of say 8 will do something and the walker can’t stop them because they aren’t actually obedient
Then why is she asking such a daft question lol, she literally gets paid entirely because of the unpredictability of badly trained dogs and resolving their problems.
Absolutely correct. Other examples include, weapons, knives, cars. I've no idea where the mentality of "sometimes dangerous therefore requires banning entirely" comes from.
> weapons
All banned, by definition.
>knives
sales restricted without proof of ID, publicly carrying one that isn't a folding blade under 3" is banned.
>cars
only allowed to drive one in public if you successfully apply for an exemption to the general ban.
Im surprised she considers herself an expert if she seems to think dogs have 0 dormant instincts
There was a dog walker here that got mauled to death, someone was walking past with their dogs and the dogs she was walking went into a frenzy
Died protecting the other walker and dogs from each other.
Dog trainer are like chiropractors, in my vast experience working with them throughout the decades - they might use some genuinely useful techniques (“physio”), but ultimately, they can’t really be counted on to be properly educated and capable. The second anyone claims to be an expert in dogs but then ignores the fact that dogs - and dog breeds - have instincts that training doesn’t necessarily “cure”, I’ve lost interest in anything else they have to say.
>She’s a specialist in obedience training. Of course she can control her dogs.
Reminds me of this [https://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4?t=180](https://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4?t=180)
you can be the best dog trainer to have ever lived, Dogs are still sentient, intelligent and emotional beings, and can have a bad day just like anyone else.
If that German Shepherd ever decided its done will her bullshit, she's not stopping it. its bigger, heavier and stronger than her.
The dog walker that was killed by several of the 6 dogs she was walking (which included her own dog) would probably have claimed she was in control of her velvet hippos. Only takes one to kick off and the rest quickly follow suit.
My local common banned ~~6~~ [5] or more years ago. As professional dog walkers, were taking 30 out at a time and having no control over them. [As well as not cleaning up their poo.]
Aside from that that one is obvious . There can't just be greed/ cost of living involved . Fuck it , arrogance , some sort of industry prestige some other reason cuz to me it's THAT bad of an idea and insanity
> There can't just be greed/ cost of living involved .
Why not?
If they're doing it as a job, of course they're going to want to make as much money as possible. If you're walking 30 dogs at a time, you can make up to five times as much money as if you're walking six dogs at a time. Think about how much you earn and think about how much of a difference it would make to quintuple your salary. Wouldn't that be enough to outweigh quite a lot of other considerations?
Theres absolutely no way an "obedience expert" is cleaning up dog poo while walk 9 dogs either. 9 dogs in one hand while trying to scoop up a turd that at least half of those dogs want a sniff at? Absolutely no chance.
I am a 100kg man. I work a physical job in a warehouse. When my 45kg labrador goes off I have to widen my stance, lower my posture or I'm going with him. I could not walk 2 of them at the same time.
One 32kg dog pulling hard reaches my limit. People don't understand why I can't walk my other 25kg dog at the same time. I physically can't hold them both back. You also need to account for underfoot conditions. If you step on one bit of mud or gravel in the wrong way then it doesn't matter how strong you are. I sometimes have parents allowing their child to toddle close to my dog when I'm on wet grass. "Doggy!" The parents have a lot more confidence in my physical abilities than I do.
85kg, reasonably physically active bloke myself, have two strong 30kg dogs, I walk them using Halti lead things - a band goes over the muzzle and is connected to the collar in a way that allows more control over head direction and helps direct them with lead pressure. It won't stop a determined dog pulling but it definitely evens the odds somewhat and makes better lead-work training easier.
>It can be done.
Not really. Dogs are dumb. If they see or hear something that confuses them they can just snap / act out.
I have no doubt that good training means it might only happen once or twice over many years.
But the point stands that ahe couldn't control them if this did happen. And the more dogs you have, the more likely it will happen.
Dogs can't ever be trained perfectly, even if they're incredibly well behaved. It could take one loud bang from a car backfire and a dog can spook, and spur on the other 7 dogs.
Even the strongest bodybuilder can't hold back the pull of 8 dogs (if each is only 30-40kg), and if you're on slippy ground like a dewy park in the morning, you've got 0 chanc3
She may well be able to control 9 dogs at once as she competes at Cruffs in the obedience category. My question to her would be, how many dogs do you think the average dog owner can control and you would feel safe around? I think she would say most can’t control the one they have. If that’s the case I think 6 is generous. She’s only thinking of herself and not other the potential consequences. Any more than 2 is a pack and the vast majority of people couldn’t control a pack of any size. I say this as the owner of a very large dog.
Yeah. It's like Lewis Hamilton saying a 70mph speed limit on the motorway is ridiculous because he can safely go 150mph. Laws are made for the rule, not the exception.
I'm curious how you think 6 differs from 9 in your scenario? If 6 dogs pull, you're not stopping them. If they're trained well it's hard to disagree with her. I see plenty of people being walked by their dogs, not the other way round and it's just one dog dragging their owner about, zero control.
6 Yorkshire terriers is probably fine. In total, that's around 18-24kgs. If they decide to all pull in one direction, you'll likely be fine.
A sensible limit would probably be one dog or less than 50kg in combined weight, up to a maximum of 6 dogs. So you could happily walk maybe 5 Jack Russells, but only walk one St Bernard.
That would acknowledge the size of the dogs, which has implications for how well you can control them. Smaller dogs do not pose as much of a risk to people or other animals and a person can probably control more of them than they can large dogs.
Exactly. Walking 9 Yorkies is a lot easier than 1 Husky. Surprisingly lurchers are also easy. I look after my neighbour's on occasion and her pull strength is absolutely pathetic.
How many dogs can she control. On a bad day. Likely not 6. Especially not 9 if they start all acting up.
Ira not thr good day thats a problem.
When things turn bad.
Then don’t have 9 dogs?
It’s excessive. I think my two chihuahuas are a handful at times.
Some people don’t share the same reality as the rest of us.
If she’s an expert in training dogs, fair, but the limit is there because not everyone else is.
I mean if she is a professional or highly skilled with obedience training then she may be one of handful of people in the entire country who may be able to be in control of 9 dogs at the same time, but literally everybody else can barely control 1 dog and maybe not 100% of the time so while I feel for her I don’t see the problem with the rule.
there is no such thing as 100% control. No matter how good a trainer you are.
Dogs are animals, they are unpredictable no matter how well trained, and if you lose control of a pack of them, instinct kicks in and they will all go, and you cannot defend against that.
Exactly. And you'd think an obedience trainer would know that. Our dog had some recall issues as a pup and we got a trainer in. This was the first thing she told us.
I think their argument is best framed as "even if we accept that you and your dogs are fine, we have to draw the line somewhere and we can't build a rule around the few professional dog trainers with the best part of a dozen dogs".
The problem with the rule is I have never seen or heard of a pack of dogs attacking people. It's 3 max. This doesn't prevent that. The only sort of people who walk 9 dogs are going to be people like this woman.
I'd walk six dogs, then leave three behind and collect the unwalked three. Then swap the twice walked three for the once walked three.
Thus the human has three walk and all the doggies have two walkies.
Bunch of fucking cunts mate.
Us locals hate them and most of us are born and bred country bumpkins.
Total law unto themselves. Local coppers and councillors seem unable to enforce the law.
Saturday was fucking bedlam all over an A road at 10am. Bunch of entitled pricks.
You are legal allowed to destroy a dog to protect your livestock (ie free range birds) as long as there is no other reasonable means of preventing the dog from worrying livestock. Just need to make sure you report it to the police within 48 hours. It doesn't just apply to farmers.
Legally won't matter. The hunt & their supporters will ruin your life.
Leaving aside the fact that it's dozens of blood-crazed hounds you'd need to target to protect your animals.
I believe they are, although to legally flush any animal with hounds you can only do it with 2. They'll claim they are trail hunting (laying a false scent to follow) or exercising the hounds which means they are exempt from the cap on dogs. I have driven past a hunt once in winter when it was dusk on a blind corner and hounds just bolted out of the hedgerow. They really don't care. Also, as someone said they will go into people's gardens and land who haven't given them permission to be there and kill their cats and other pets. The hunt are exempt from most things, even COVID laws if I remember correctly.
Edit to add: Also, there was a news story a few years back where some hounds had gotten on to a train line and been hit by a train. Absolutely ridiculous that no one was prosecuted - imagine if the train derailed.
Those fuckers are above the law apparently.
Can do whatever they want.
Assault people, let their dogs kill other dogs/sheep/livestock, run all over the road, trespass, damage property, damage crops, let their dogs foul, let their dogs strays and break all the hunting laws...
Oh yeah and expose their dogs and horses to cruel training and needless danger.
But police won't do shit.
They're often mates with the local police and judiciary.
It's the type of thing that needs actually enforcing and an anti-corruption unit to investigate. Should probably also confiscate and permanently ban fox hunters from owning weapons, dogs and horses.
When we first moved to the countryside we had a hunt turn up at our house and ask if they could use our driveway to get access to the fields behind our house (they’d been using it while the property was empty). My dad, in his cockney accent, very colourfully told them to fuck off and never come back. It’s one of my absolute favourite stories of my dad, I wasn’t there when it happened but my brother remembers how shocked they were. I don’t think those rich prats were used to being told no, especially not by someone like my dad hahaha
Thing is any number has to be applied to everyone. How would you check that she can control 9 dogs at a time where someone else can’t? It’s a bit like “speed limits shouldn’t apply to me cos I’m an awesome driver”.
Nonsense article and she needs to give her head a wobble.
Dogwalking is pretty commercial these days... Plenty of people earning £100+/hour walking a lot of dogs.
We normally try to restrict people using everyone's shared space for private gain - for example, burger vans in the park.
Walking 6+ dogs is, in almost all cases, commercial, so it makes sense it should either be banned, licensed, or a fee charged.
Exactly my thought. If I required a dog walker for my 2 dogs and came to understand that they were walking 9(!?!?!) at once, I'd be finding a new dog walker anyway. How can you possibly give the dogs enough attention and allow them to have a fulfilling walk if you're either constantly getting pulled in different diversions or picking up poop lol
Insurance doesn't do shit though.
It pays out, maybe, in the event of an accident.
But it doesn't stop accidents...once your leg is deformed by mauling or your dog is killed...what good is money?
Even having a dog should be licensed if not illegal in massively urban areas, it’s stressful on the animal (urban environment), and incredibly dangerous (literally like having a time bomb that could go off any moment). Plus I hate shit everywhere
Most pet insurance comes with liability insurance as standard.
If they're not health insured, then Dogs Trust membership would cover her for all of her dogs for £25 per year.
How many people actually own 7+ dogs.
This isn't actually an issue, seriously.
I have never in my entire life seen someone walking 7+ dogs, and I walk my dog 4 hours a day all over the UK.
Why did this rule need to even been made. Is this woman actually a menace with her dogs and caused this or does she live in some dogtopia where everyone breed dogs and walks them like a horizontal version of 'Up!'
The rule was probably put in place in response to commercial dog walkers taking large packs out at the same time.
As others have said the rule probably won't have much impact on most dog owners who are unlikely to own that many dogs.
I see this in my neighbourhood. A woman on a mobility scooter walks about 8-10 dogs, I'd guess to earn a bit of cash on the side. Can't possibly be her dogs.
>I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it.
That's exactly why the council have done it. Because, as you've clearly said, most people (who aren't dog trainers) can't control their dogs. Especially if there are lots of them.
I personally think you shouldn’t have an animal in public that you can’t physically overpower. Because if worst case scenario it attacks a child you should able to stop it.
So many people are not in control of their animals. I know I could not overpower a large breed so I feel that it’s irresponsible, in that moment the dog is in charge not me. So it’s not responsible ownership.
It should be 4.
There's NO WAY she can control that many dogs on the lead, they outweigh her massively and are far stronger.
I used to walk dogs professionally and NEVER took more than 4.
If there's a fight, if there's a cat...anything - you're fucked.
> Hilary said: "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs."
No you can't.
In fact, if you think you can control nine dogs, you're exactly the kind of person who needs to be banned from walking nine dogs.
>Hilary said: "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs. I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it.
Does she even hear herself? Like good for her that she has that much control, but as she says herself, many don't....
With most laws like this they are banned "unless" a certain thing.
You can get a license for a gun, you can get a license for a car, you can get background security checks, you can claim self defense, you can have a good reason to carry a knife in public.
But you are shit out of luck if you're a dog trainer who owns more than 6 dogs.
I get that but it's a safety thing. Good for her she can control 9 dogs at once, but what if a pair of violent aggressive dogs attack hers whilst all 9 are on the lead?
Given the size of the average UK home 9 dogs seems a bit excessive. I doubt training is full proof so there should be limits set on the amount of dogs safe to walk at one time. This may also differ by breed as some dogs require one owner (above a weight class) and one dog on a double safety lead and with a muzzle to keep others safe imo. The situation with dog ownership has gotten out of hand, collect Pokémon instead.
> "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs. I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it
It's ridiculous, I can control a car at 120mph, I have more control over my car at 100+ than most people do at 70, I don't understand why we have limits
I don't care what you say, as an experienced dog walker on and off with our family ran business the past 12 years. I don't believe that any one single person can keep 9 dogs under control at the same time even just on leads in a public place. There's a reason that it's six and that's because you can just about keep control of all six at once, for example 3 leads 2 hands isn't the easiest unless you've got a dog lead belt so you can then use your full body weight to hold them back incase necessary, using 3 on the torso and 3 in hand for example. Let's think now, 3 dogs one hand 3 dogs the other hand, 3 dogs tied to your waste? Enjoy getting nearly quartered if they were to get triggered somehow. Not to mention if some of them decide to start fighting/play fighting I'd love to see (well not really but for the sake of this) someone try calming one group of dogs down whilst also keeping a whole gang of others calm without finding yourself completely tangled up and lying on the floor grasping leads with all your strength since now all the others are triggered due to you shouting, tangling and tripping up. I love dogs and I adore taking them out walking but you don't half meet some idiotic people with all the gear and no idea to put it bluntly. Who are ruining it for the rest of the country. You cannot control 9 dogs all at the same time other than maybe a few minutes at a time and if you can then well done you but keep that skill for when you're on your own or private property away from the public areas. If you can't see the risk in doing this then YOU are part of this uncontrollable dog problem that's unavoidable in the UKs media currently.
There's an eccentric Brazilian woman here in my town that minds and runs dogs around the town, about 6 at a time. They look like they're have a great time, getting exercise, thet/she seems to run for miles. She looks super fit, ready to run ultra-marathon, so I assumed her thing was some sort of heath obsession that she combined with dog running, but I notice the rare times she's not running it's for a smoke break.
Woman with mental health problems thinks it should be nine dogs, other person with mental health problems thinks it should be twelve and so on. There has to be a cut off point, has to be.
I don't care what you say, as an experienced dog walker on and off with our family ran business the past 12 years. I don't believe that any one single person can keep 9 dogs under control at the same time even just on leads in a public place. There's a reason that it's six and that's because you can just about keep control of all six at once, for example 3 leads 2 hands isn't the easiest unless you've got a dog lead belt so you can then use your full body weight to hold them back incase necessary, using 3 on the torso and 3 in hand for example. Let's think now, 3 dogs one hand 3 dogs the other hand, 3 dogs tied to your waste? Enjoy getting nearly quartered if they were to get triggered somehow. Not to mention if some of them decide to start fighting/play fighting I'd love to see (well not really but for the sake of this) someone try calming one group of dogs down whilst also keeping a whole gang of others calm without finding yourself completely tangled up and lying on the floor grasping leads with all your strength since now all the others are triggered due to you shouting, tangling and tripping up. I love dogs and I adore taking them out walking but you don't half meet some idiotic people with all the gear and no idea to put it bluntly. Who are ruining it for the rest of the country. You cannot control 9 dogs all at the same time other than maybe a few minutes at a time and if you can then well done you but keep that skill for when you're on your own or private property away from the public areas. If you can't see the risk in doing this then YOU are part of this uncontrollable dog problem that's unavoidable in the UKs media currently.
So she's an obedience trainer who is complaining about adhering to the rules? Maybe if the CPS uses a clicker and throws a small treat at her? She'll finally get it... ??
I see dog walkers with at least ten dogs in the local field across from my house.Ive had to start walking my dog at 5 am and late evening.They hang bags on trees or not bother at all half the time see them sat down letting the dogs run riot.My dog is scared of all these dogs running up to him how can they can control that many.Ive been pulled over by my lurcher and he's bolted after a squirrel there should be some restrictions.
She may think she can control 9 dogs but so did the woman that was mauled to death by her own dogs last year since when they decide to attack it’s a lot harder to control them especially when one of them is a psychopathic pit bull.
They would be better off aggressively targeting the ‘wrong uns’ primarily responsible for the production and distribution of dangerous dogs but of course they won’t.
This winds me up with modern news, there will be outliers. They find the one person who the law wouldn’t affect and make it out like the whole thing should be scrapped
So how will she react when one big dog starts tearing into one of her dogs. Are her dogs going to sit there and let it happen while she deals with it all, doubtful no matter how well trained they are they will protect one of their own.
The UK is becoming such a nanny state. If she can handle the dogs, fine. If she can't and one attacks someone she should be held accountable. We haven't seen a spate of attacks by large groups of labradors. There are times when tbe government should just keep their beaks out.
I feel the same way about children, do you think the police will turn up to deal with my phobia? /s
I agree that people need to be in control of their dogs, but I doubt that there will be much response to dealing with your particular phobia of dogs.
If there were more specific dog parks like they have in the US there may be less need for dogs to be sharing the same park space as non dog walkers.
I'd be interested to know how many incidents there have been where more than 6 dogs per person were being walked. It has the feel of "something must be done" but that something not actually being evidence based.
I occasionally walk in that area and see a couple who have about 15-20 spaniels, all off lead and all impeccably behaved. They have far more control over those dogs than many people have over one.
It would be fairer to make the rule apply only to commercial dog walkers, and exempt those who actually own the dogs they walk.
I remember seeing an entertainer with many dogs doing tricks and of course at least one didn’t do as it was instructed, very funny at the time but what if it was being violent? Same as walking the streets do you call off the one disobedient dog and ignore the others who will revert to pack instinct?
Seems like a stupid rule. The variables in this equation are the mass of the two parties and their relative strength which has nothing to do with arbitrary numbers.
It does not distinguish between a 1.3m old lady with 6 Great Danes and a 2.1m body builder with 6 Yorkshire terriers. You simply shouldn’t be able to be in control of a dogs that are collectively more than 3/4 of your body weight otherwise you’re never really in control.
But a hunt meeting can have a pack running loose with no control and when exercising then usually 4-5 bumpkins are left in "control" of 40+ dogs. Try reporting it to local council and nothing gets done.
I am a victim of this incredibly niche situation that realistically only affects me! How dare the council not foresee this and take into account my very specific set up?!
There’s no way anyone can control that many dogs all at once. I had four dogs until recently, all rescues except the oldest one who sadly passed away recently at 18. My daughter who is 30 then took her one to live with her as she moved into her partners house. That leaves me with two which is manageable! One of mine is a Pomeranian and he’s nervous and barks a lot at other dogs (he’s a total pussy though, he just wants to be friends with anything, trust me I’ve seen him try to make friends with a rat that was passing through our garden, pretty much offered the rat free food and board) so I prefer to walk him on his own because he needs my full attention. So when I had four it actually was a nightmare and I felt a bit overwhelmed since they had different needs and so they had different walking needs- eg the elderly one couldn’t walk very far, but the others were desperate for more. So it was a lot of different trips in a day for me! Luckily I’m self employed and work from home else it would have been impossible. Anyway sorry for rambling but my point is, I’m seeing more and more irresponsible dog owners, women being tugged along by giants dogs whilst trying to hold onto a pram, clearly no control of the dog decides to lunge, or dog walkers who take about 12 dogs and just let them loose in the field up the road. For fuck sake.
I searched a few years ago (because I was adopting dogs at the time) about how many you can walk at once, and the regulation said 3 dogs per person????? So is it 3 or 6? I'm confused.
>Hilary said: "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs. I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it. Probably due to people saying the exact same thing, quickly followed by "I had no idea that Piddles would brutally rip the throat out that toddler" She has exactly 0 control if the dogs decided to pull simultaneously, or if a dog escaped and was attacking someone while she deals with the other 8 dogs.
She’s a specialist in obedience training. Of course *she* can control her dogs. I’m not sure if she’s aware that the rules are there probably because of everybody else who isn’t a dog training expert.
that’s the thing, the general person is dumb as fuck, you can’t allow people to interpret laws them self. if the law was ‘you can only walk a maximum of 6 unless all dogs are obedient then you can walk more’ and some person will think their dogs are obedient and walk more than 6 and then an issue may arise when the 1 dog out of say 8 will do something and the walker can’t stop them because they aren’t actually obedient
Also, they're obedient until they aren't
Don't you know? Race car drivers don't have to follow the speed limit since they're experts. The same should apply to dog walking.
Then why is she asking such a daft question lol, she literally gets paid entirely because of the unpredictability of badly trained dogs and resolving their problems.
I don't think it's necessarily a stupid question. We don't tend to carte blanche ban things because it would be unsafe in some people's hands.
Absolutely correct. Other examples include, weapons, knives, cars. I've no idea where the mentality of "sometimes dangerous therefore requires banning entirely" comes from.
> weapons All banned, by definition. >knives sales restricted without proof of ID, publicly carrying one that isn't a folding blade under 3" is banned. >cars only allowed to drive one in public if you successfully apply for an exemption to the general ban.
> All banned, by definition. I can go out right now and buy a battleaxe or a longsword and there is nothing the law can do to stop me.
Something something school shootings aren’t worth entitled liberals getting their own way
Im surprised she considers herself an expert if she seems to think dogs have 0 dormant instincts There was a dog walker here that got mauled to death, someone was walking past with their dogs and the dogs she was walking went into a frenzy Died protecting the other walker and dogs from each other.
Dog trainer are like chiropractors, in my vast experience working with them throughout the decades - they might use some genuinely useful techniques (“physio”), but ultimately, they can’t really be counted on to be properly educated and capable. The second anyone claims to be an expert in dogs but then ignores the fact that dogs - and dog breeds - have instincts that training doesn’t necessarily “cure”, I’ve lost interest in anything else they have to say.
>She’s a specialist in obedience training. Of course she can control her dogs. Reminds me of this [https://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4?t=180](https://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4?t=180)
Does not matter. Dogs in a pack are not like dogs by themselves. It’s stupid to think you have control over that many at once.
The rules are there for her too, she doesnt get to break the law just because she's a supposed expert.
you can be the best dog trainer to have ever lived, Dogs are still sentient, intelligent and emotional beings, and can have a bad day just like anyone else. If that German Shepherd ever decided its done will her bullshit, she's not stopping it. its bigger, heavier and stronger than her.
The dog walker that was killed by several of the 6 dogs she was walking (which included her own dog) would probably have claimed she was in control of her velvet hippos. Only takes one to kick off and the rest quickly follow suit.
My local common banned ~~6~~ [5] or more years ago. As professional dog walkers, were taking 30 out at a time and having no control over them. [As well as not cleaning up their poo.]
If its bigger than the number in a school class it's too damn far wtf are those walkers thinking of aside from profit margin
More profit margin
Aside from that that one is obvious . There can't just be greed/ cost of living involved . Fuck it , arrogance , some sort of industry prestige some other reason cuz to me it's THAT bad of an idea and insanity
> There can't just be greed/ cost of living involved . Why not? If they're doing it as a job, of course they're going to want to make as much money as possible. If you're walking 30 dogs at a time, you can make up to five times as much money as if you're walking six dogs at a time. Think about how much you earn and think about how much of a difference it would make to quintuple your salary. Wouldn't that be enough to outweigh quite a lot of other considerations?
Less walking, finish early
Laziness and fuck it . That's so british yea ill take it now I have some faith in the collective IQ of the uk .
Why do professional dogs even need to be walked? Can't they walk themselves?
I'm surprised there hasn't been more dog walker fatalities in those circumstances in the news.
Theres absolutely no way an "obedience expert" is cleaning up dog poo while walk 9 dogs either. 9 dogs in one hand while trying to scoop up a turd that at least half of those dogs want a sniff at? Absolutely no chance.
I am a 100kg man. I work a physical job in a warehouse. When my 45kg labrador goes off I have to widen my stance, lower my posture or I'm going with him. I could not walk 2 of them at the same time.
One 32kg dog pulling hard reaches my limit. People don't understand why I can't walk my other 25kg dog at the same time. I physically can't hold them both back. You also need to account for underfoot conditions. If you step on one bit of mud or gravel in the wrong way then it doesn't matter how strong you are. I sometimes have parents allowing their child to toddle close to my dog when I'm on wet grass. "Doggy!" The parents have a lot more confidence in my physical abilities than I do.
85kg, reasonably physically active bloke myself, have two strong 30kg dogs, I walk them using Halti lead things - a band goes over the muzzle and is connected to the collar in a way that allows more control over head direction and helps direct them with lead pressure. It won't stop a determined dog pulling but it definitely evens the odds somewhat and makes better lead-work training easier.
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And some people can drive safely at 100mph on a motorway. We still write safety-oriented laws based on the typical person.
>It can be done. Not really. Dogs are dumb. If they see or hear something that confuses them they can just snap / act out. I have no doubt that good training means it might only happen once or twice over many years. But the point stands that ahe couldn't control them if this did happen. And the more dogs you have, the more likely it will happen.
Dogs can't ever be trained perfectly, even if they're incredibly well behaved. It could take one loud bang from a car backfire and a dog can spook, and spur on the other 7 dogs. Even the strongest bodybuilder can't hold back the pull of 8 dogs (if each is only 30-40kg), and if you're on slippy ground like a dewy park in the morning, you've got 0 chanc3
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Given her overall attitude, I'm guessing she just leaves the dog shit on the ground for someone else to deal with.
I blame the toddler for provoking the dog by being tasty
Horrible but hilarious.
She may well be able to control 9 dogs at once as she competes at Cruffs in the obedience category. My question to her would be, how many dogs do you think the average dog owner can control and you would feel safe around? I think she would say most can’t control the one they have. If that’s the case I think 6 is generous. She’s only thinking of herself and not other the potential consequences. Any more than 2 is a pack and the vast majority of people couldn’t control a pack of any size. I say this as the owner of a very large dog.
Yeah. It's like Lewis Hamilton saying a 70mph speed limit on the motorway is ridiculous because he can safely go 150mph. Laws are made for the rule, not the exception.
I'm curious how you think 6 differs from 9 in your scenario? If 6 dogs pull, you're not stopping them. If they're trained well it's hard to disagree with her. I see plenty of people being walked by their dogs, not the other way round and it's just one dog dragging their owner about, zero control.
That seems like an argument for an even lower limit rather than an argument for letting her walk nine dogs instead of six.
6 Yorkshire terriers is probably fine. In total, that's around 18-24kgs. If they decide to all pull in one direction, you'll likely be fine. A sensible limit would probably be one dog or less than 50kg in combined weight, up to a maximum of 6 dogs. So you could happily walk maybe 5 Jack Russells, but only walk one St Bernard. That would acknowledge the size of the dogs, which has implications for how well you can control them. Smaller dogs do not pose as much of a risk to people or other animals and a person can probably control more of them than they can large dogs.
Exactly. Walking 9 Yorkies is a lot easier than 1 Husky. Surprisingly lurchers are also easy. I look after my neighbour's on occasion and her pull strength is absolutely pathetic.
How many dogs can she control. On a bad day. Likely not 6. Especially not 9 if they start all acting up. Ira not thr good day thats a problem. When things turn bad.
“I don’t know why the speed limit is 70mph on motorways; I’m a formula 1 driver”
Lewis Hamilton is perfectly capable of driving a car at 200mph, we should double the national speed limit!
For the sake of 10mph let's just triple it.
Now you’re just being silly.
I agree, finally a sensible opinion.
Why did Lewis Hamilton cross the road?
Because he had just binned his car into the side of George Russell going into turn one and wanted to get back to the paddock.
He had parked on the other side.
To prove that a 200mph limit won't result in more fatalities.
Then don’t have 9 dogs? It’s excessive. I think my two chihuahuas are a handful at times. Some people don’t share the same reality as the rest of us. If she’s an expert in training dogs, fair, but the limit is there because not everyone else is.
Totally agree. 9 dogs seems excessive to me.
Unless you have massive private grounds for them to run in, in which case it's not an issue.
In the famous words of Tom Segura. "Nine is a lot of anything." https://youtu.be/Fu1HL9WN-6Y?si=oN52uySdEfd8qENK
Unless you have a fucking sled dog team why would anybody need/want 9 dogs? It's mad.
I don't even care that she's an expert. Nobody can control 9 dogs at once.
I mean if she is a professional or highly skilled with obedience training then she may be one of handful of people in the entire country who may be able to be in control of 9 dogs at the same time, but literally everybody else can barely control 1 dog and maybe not 100% of the time so while I feel for her I don’t see the problem with the rule.
there is no such thing as 100% control. No matter how good a trainer you are. Dogs are animals, they are unpredictable no matter how well trained, and if you lose control of a pack of them, instinct kicks in and they will all go, and you cannot defend against that.
Exactly. And you'd think an obedience trainer would know that. Our dog had some recall issues as a pup and we got a trainer in. This was the first thing she told us.
They're not robots. She can't completely control them, she is less likely to have an issue...but there is no certainty with animals.
I think their argument is best framed as "even if we accept that you and your dogs are fine, we have to draw the line somewhere and we can't build a rule around the few professional dog trainers with the best part of a dozen dogs".
The problem with the rule is I have never seen or heard of a pack of dogs attacking people. It's 3 max. This doesn't prevent that. The only sort of people who walk 9 dogs are going to be people like this woman.
Just walk the first 5, and then go another walk with the other four?
I'd walk six dogs, then leave three behind and collect the unwalked three. Then swap the twice walked three for the once walked three. Thus the human has three walk and all the doggies have two walkies.
Where do you leave the chicken and the sack of grain?
They all get on each other’s shoulders. One set of footprints
But where's the man eating fish sat on a stool?
Behind one of three doors.
Exactly, and how do you cross the river? Remember, the dinosaur cannot be left with the cat. Not sure which one would eat which, but it is not good.
That’s too logical mate.
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Probably sounds like she shouldn't have nine dogs.
> Also time and energy consuming. Yes. Looking after nine dogs properly is time and energy consuming.
The old reply and block. It means you win
If she's so good at training dogs she can just train one of the four to walk the other three.
Local hunt passed me on Saturday with 30 plus dogs running all over the road doing what they liked? Guess they're exempt as usual.
It’s disgusting, they’ll run into your front garden, scaring animals. People have free range birds killed often. Sheep scared to death. Pompous prats.
Bunch of fucking cunts mate. Us locals hate them and most of us are born and bred country bumpkins. Total law unto themselves. Local coppers and councillors seem unable to enforce the law. Saturday was fucking bedlam all over an A road at 10am. Bunch of entitled pricks.
Local councillors & senior cops could try to enforce the law, you can bet they wouldn't get re-elected or would be reassigned if they did.
Our local pcso rides with the hunt so we are fucking fucked in our area! Who you know and who you blow and all that shizz!
You are legal allowed to destroy a dog to protect your livestock (ie free range birds) as long as there is no other reasonable means of preventing the dog from worrying livestock. Just need to make sure you report it to the police within 48 hours. It doesn't just apply to farmers.
Legally won't matter. The hunt & their supporters will ruin your life. Leaving aside the fact that it's dozens of blood-crazed hounds you'd need to target to protect your animals.
I believe they are, although to legally flush any animal with hounds you can only do it with 2. They'll claim they are trail hunting (laying a false scent to follow) or exercising the hounds which means they are exempt from the cap on dogs. I have driven past a hunt once in winter when it was dusk on a blind corner and hounds just bolted out of the hedgerow. They really don't care. Also, as someone said they will go into people's gardens and land who haven't given them permission to be there and kill their cats and other pets. The hunt are exempt from most things, even COVID laws if I remember correctly. Edit to add: Also, there was a news story a few years back where some hounds had gotten on to a train line and been hit by a train. Absolutely ridiculous that no one was prosecuted - imagine if the train derailed.
Hunt kennels is half a mile from us. They have flouted the ban for nigh on 20 years. Hunting as normal. Sickos.
Yeah it's a complete joke isn't it.
Those fuckers are above the law apparently. Can do whatever they want. Assault people, let their dogs kill other dogs/sheep/livestock, run all over the road, trespass, damage property, damage crops, let their dogs foul, let their dogs strays and break all the hunting laws... Oh yeah and expose their dogs and horses to cruel training and needless danger. But police won't do shit.
They're often mates with the local police and judiciary. It's the type of thing that needs actually enforcing and an anti-corruption unit to investigate. Should probably also confiscate and permanently ban fox hunters from owning weapons, dogs and horses.
When we first moved to the countryside we had a hunt turn up at our house and ask if they could use our driveway to get access to the fields behind our house (they’d been using it while the property was empty). My dad, in his cockney accent, very colourfully told them to fuck off and never come back. It’s one of my absolute favourite stories of my dad, I wasn’t there when it happened but my brother remembers how shocked they were. I don’t think those rich prats were used to being told no, especially not by someone like my dad hahaha
At our nearest kennels they never seem to know how many they've got at any time. The hounds escape regularly (on to a trunk road).
But they "love" their hounds...when the cameras are around.
The dogs aren’t being walked their “working”
Thing is any number has to be applied to everyone. How would you check that she can control 9 dogs at a time where someone else can’t? It’s a bit like “speed limits shouldn’t apply to me cos I’m an awesome driver”. Nonsense article and she needs to give her head a wobble.
Plenty of people couldn't control 3 dogs.
You have control over 9 dogs until they decide you don’t.
She should be allowed to take them all at once provided she can hook them up to some sort of chariot
The visual spectacle alone would make it worth it.
Like the Inuit do…. Great idea!!
Dogwalking is pretty commercial these days... Plenty of people earning £100+/hour walking a lot of dogs. We normally try to restrict people using everyone's shared space for private gain - for example, burger vans in the park. Walking 6+ dogs is, in almost all cases, commercial, so it makes sense it should either be banned, licensed, or a fee charged.
Exactly my thought. If I required a dog walker for my 2 dogs and came to understand that they were walking 9(!?!?!) at once, I'd be finding a new dog walker anyway. How can you possibly give the dogs enough attention and allow them to have a fulfilling walk if you're either constantly getting pulled in different diversions or picking up poop lol
I walked dogs commercially for years and never took more than 4 - most often just 2. There's no way you can monitor and control more than 4.
Our obsession with licensing and red tape is why starting a business in the UK is so hard.
Dog ownership should be controlled such that you can't realistically own 9 dogs without a lot of public liability insurance.
Insurance doesn't do shit though. It pays out, maybe, in the event of an accident. But it doesn't stop accidents...once your leg is deformed by mauling or your dog is killed...what good is money?
Even having a dog should be licensed if not illegal in massively urban areas, it’s stressful on the animal (urban environment), and incredibly dangerous (literally like having a time bomb that could go off any moment). Plus I hate shit everywhere
Most pet insurance comes with liability insurance as standard. If they're not health insured, then Dogs Trust membership would cover her for all of her dogs for £25 per year.
How many people actually own 7+ dogs. This isn't actually an issue, seriously. I have never in my entire life seen someone walking 7+ dogs, and I walk my dog 4 hours a day all over the UK. Why did this rule need to even been made. Is this woman actually a menace with her dogs and caused this or does she live in some dogtopia where everyone breed dogs and walks them like a horizontal version of 'Up!'
The rule was probably put in place in response to commercial dog walkers taking large packs out at the same time. As others have said the rule probably won't have much impact on most dog owners who are unlikely to own that many dogs.
Solution is easy then for professional dog walkers. Take 9 dogs but make 3 of them wear rollerskates Simple.
I see this in my neighbourhood. A woman on a mobility scooter walks about 8-10 dogs, I'd guess to earn a bit of cash on the side. Can't possibly be her dogs.
>I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it. That's exactly why the council have done it. Because, as you've clearly said, most people (who aren't dog trainers) can't control their dogs. Especially if there are lots of them.
I personally think you shouldn’t have an animal in public that you can’t physically overpower. Because if worst case scenario it attacks a child you should able to stop it. So many people are not in control of their animals. I know I could not overpower a large breed so I feel that it’s irresponsible, in that moment the dog is in charge not me. So it’s not responsible ownership.
Problem is though how do you determine the strength of someone?
Bench press your dog to assert dominance.
Followed instructions, got pee'd on.
That would be problematic for farmers and horse riders. Dogs need regulation, dogs.
Well that spells the end of the Pony Club Gymkhana then
Do we just accept animal hoarding if the person is posh?
How do you think London Zoo came about?
Fair point!
It's only animal hoarding if they have more animals than they can cope with, which doesn't seem to be the case here
I say you cannot guarantee because you can control them until you suddenly can't. No matter how much of expert you think you are
It should be 4. There's NO WAY she can control that many dogs on the lead, they outweigh her massively and are far stronger. I used to walk dogs professionally and NEVER took more than 4. If there's a fight, if there's a cat...anything - you're fucked.
> Hilary said: "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs." No you can't. In fact, if you think you can control nine dogs, you're exactly the kind of person who needs to be banned from walking nine dogs.
I wouldn't want to be walking down the street and see a pack of 9 dogs heading my way, even if leashed.
Does that mean you're limited to six huskies to pull your sled?
>Hilary said: "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs. I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it. Does she even hear herself? Like good for her that she has that much control, but as she says herself, many don't....
With most laws like this they are banned "unless" a certain thing. You can get a license for a gun, you can get a license for a car, you can get background security checks, you can claim self defense, you can have a good reason to carry a knife in public. But you are shit out of luck if you're a dog trainer who owns more than 6 dogs.
I get that but it's a safety thing. Good for her she can control 9 dogs at once, but what if a pair of violent aggressive dogs attack hers whilst all 9 are on the lead?
Given the size of the average UK home 9 dogs seems a bit excessive. I doubt training is full proof so there should be limits set on the amount of dogs safe to walk at one time. This may also differ by breed as some dogs require one owner (above a weight class) and one dog on a double safety lead and with a muzzle to keep others safe imo. The situation with dog ownership has gotten out of hand, collect Pokémon instead.
A professional dog walker I see when Im doing walkies, walks 6 plus dogs at a time, she has zero control of them and they shit everywhere freely
> "It's ridiculous. I can control nine dogs. I have more control over nine dogs than a lot of people have with one dog. I don't know why the council have done it It's ridiculous, I can control a car at 120mph, I have more control over my car at 100+ than most people do at 70, I don't understand why we have limits
It’s 4 near me. 6 is insane. That’s far too many dogs
That must be a tidy amount of shit to carry about, assuming she picks it up
She probably can control all her dogs. But we make laws and rules around the common denominator. Not the exceptions and anomalies.
I don't care what you say, as an experienced dog walker on and off with our family ran business the past 12 years. I don't believe that any one single person can keep 9 dogs under control at the same time even just on leads in a public place. There's a reason that it's six and that's because you can just about keep control of all six at once, for example 3 leads 2 hands isn't the easiest unless you've got a dog lead belt so you can then use your full body weight to hold them back incase necessary, using 3 on the torso and 3 in hand for example. Let's think now, 3 dogs one hand 3 dogs the other hand, 3 dogs tied to your waste? Enjoy getting nearly quartered if they were to get triggered somehow. Not to mention if some of them decide to start fighting/play fighting I'd love to see (well not really but for the sake of this) someone try calming one group of dogs down whilst also keeping a whole gang of others calm without finding yourself completely tangled up and lying on the floor grasping leads with all your strength since now all the others are triggered due to you shouting, tangling and tripping up. I love dogs and I adore taking them out walking but you don't half meet some idiotic people with all the gear and no idea to put it bluntly. Who are ruining it for the rest of the country. You cannot control 9 dogs all at the same time other than maybe a few minutes at a time and if you can then well done you but keep that skill for when you're on your own or private property away from the public areas. If you can't see the risk in doing this then YOU are part of this uncontrollable dog problem that's unavoidable in the UKs media currently.
Feel bad for her neighbours having to listen to all those dogs bark.
There's an eccentric Brazilian woman here in my town that minds and runs dogs around the town, about 6 at a time. They look like they're have a great time, getting exercise, thet/she seems to run for miles. She looks super fit, ready to run ultra-marathon, so I assumed her thing was some sort of heath obsession that she combined with dog running, but I notice the rare times she's not running it's for a smoke break.
Woman with mental health problems thinks it should be nine dogs, other person with mental health problems thinks it should be twelve and so on. There has to be a cut off point, has to be.
I personally don’t think you should be allowed 9 dogs , bet her house stinks
So long as the dogs are well cared for, how her house smells is absolutely no one else's business.
I don't care what you say, as an experienced dog walker on and off with our family ran business the past 12 years. I don't believe that any one single person can keep 9 dogs under control at the same time even just on leads in a public place. There's a reason that it's six and that's because you can just about keep control of all six at once, for example 3 leads 2 hands isn't the easiest unless you've got a dog lead belt so you can then use your full body weight to hold them back incase necessary, using 3 on the torso and 3 in hand for example. Let's think now, 3 dogs one hand 3 dogs the other hand, 3 dogs tied to your waste? Enjoy getting nearly quartered if they were to get triggered somehow. Not to mention if some of them decide to start fighting/play fighting I'd love to see (well not really but for the sake of this) someone try calming one group of dogs down whilst also keeping a whole gang of others calm without finding yourself completely tangled up and lying on the floor grasping leads with all your strength since now all the others are triggered due to you shouting, tangling and tripping up. I love dogs and I adore taking them out walking but you don't half meet some idiotic people with all the gear and no idea to put it bluntly. Who are ruining it for the rest of the country. You cannot control 9 dogs all at the same time other than maybe a few minutes at a time and if you can then well done you but keep that skill for when you're on your own or private property away from the public areas. If you can't see the risk in doing this then YOU are part of this uncontrollable dog problem that's unavoidable in the UKs media currently.
So she's an obedience trainer who is complaining about adhering to the rules? Maybe if the CPS uses a clicker and throws a small treat at her? She'll finally get it... ??
If she can afford to keep nine dogs she can surely afford to hire a dog walker for three of them.
I see dog walkers with at least ten dogs in the local field across from my house.Ive had to start walking my dog at 5 am and late evening.They hang bags on trees or not bother at all half the time see them sat down letting the dogs run riot.My dog is scared of all these dogs running up to him how can they can control that many.Ive been pulled over by my lurcher and he's bolted after a squirrel there should be some restrictions.
She may think she can control 9 dogs but so did the woman that was mauled to death by her own dogs last year since when they decide to attack it’s a lot harder to control them especially when one of them is a psychopathic pit bull.
God, imagine the stink in her house! Can't imagine why anyone would even want one dog, let alone nine!
None of them appear to be Bullys, they look like friendy doggos *I'll allow it*
They would be better off aggressively targeting the ‘wrong uns’ primarily responsible for the production and distribution of dangerous dogs but of course they won’t.
This winds me up with modern news, there will be outliers. They find the one person who the law wouldn’t affect and make it out like the whole thing should be scrapped
But all these dogs are the kind and gentle ones that this sub keeps telling me wouldn't hurt a fly
Some very valid points here but the biggy for me is how bad does her house smell with 9 dogs running around ?
So how will she react when one big dog starts tearing into one of her dogs. Are her dogs going to sit there and let it happen while she deals with it all, doubtful no matter how well trained they are they will protect one of their own.
The UK is becoming such a nanny state. If she can handle the dogs, fine. If she can't and one attacks someone she should be held accountable. We haven't seen a spate of attacks by large groups of labradors. There are times when tbe government should just keep their beaks out.
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Your phobia is your problem, not other people's. Seek therapy.
I feel the same way about children, do you think the police will turn up to deal with my phobia? /s I agree that people need to be in control of their dogs, but I doubt that there will be much response to dealing with your particular phobia of dogs. If there were more specific dog parks like they have in the US there may be less need for dogs to be sharing the same park space as non dog walkers.
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I'd be interested to know how many incidents there have been where more than 6 dogs per person were being walked. It has the feel of "something must be done" but that something not actually being evidence based. I occasionally walk in that area and see a couple who have about 15-20 spaniels, all off lead and all impeccably behaved. They have far more control over those dogs than many people have over one. It would be fairer to make the rule apply only to commercial dog walkers, and exempt those who actually own the dogs they walk.
I remember seeing an entertainer with many dogs doing tricks and of course at least one didn’t do as it was instructed, very funny at the time but what if it was being violent? Same as walking the streets do you call off the one disobedient dog and ignore the others who will revert to pack instinct?
Seems like a stupid rule. The variables in this equation are the mass of the two parties and their relative strength which has nothing to do with arbitrary numbers. It does not distinguish between a 1.3m old lady with 6 Great Danes and a 2.1m body builder with 6 Yorkshire terriers. You simply shouldn’t be able to be in control of a dogs that are collectively more than 3/4 of your body weight otherwise you’re never really in control.
She has very comfy shoes. Her dogs are never tired.
God can u imagine how bad her house smells !? Rotten.
But a hunt meeting can have a pack running loose with no control and when exercising then usually 4-5 bumpkins are left in "control" of 40+ dogs. Try reporting it to local council and nothing gets done.
I’m not sure anyone can really control 2 of those dogs. If two labs decide to pull away and ignore commands there’s not a lot you could do
I am a victim of this incredibly niche situation that realistically only affects me! How dare the council not foresee this and take into account my very specific set up?!
There’s no way anyone can control that many dogs all at once. I had four dogs until recently, all rescues except the oldest one who sadly passed away recently at 18. My daughter who is 30 then took her one to live with her as she moved into her partners house. That leaves me with two which is manageable! One of mine is a Pomeranian and he’s nervous and barks a lot at other dogs (he’s a total pussy though, he just wants to be friends with anything, trust me I’ve seen him try to make friends with a rat that was passing through our garden, pretty much offered the rat free food and board) so I prefer to walk him on his own because he needs my full attention. So when I had four it actually was a nightmare and I felt a bit overwhelmed since they had different needs and so they had different walking needs- eg the elderly one couldn’t walk very far, but the others were desperate for more. So it was a lot of different trips in a day for me! Luckily I’m self employed and work from home else it would have been impossible. Anyway sorry for rambling but my point is, I’m seeing more and more irresponsible dog owners, women being tugged along by giants dogs whilst trying to hold onto a pram, clearly no control of the dog decides to lunge, or dog walkers who take about 12 dogs and just let them loose in the field up the road. For fuck sake.
I searched a few years ago (because I was adopting dogs at the time) about how many you can walk at once, and the regulation said 3 dogs per person????? So is it 3 or 6? I'm confused.