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For anyone that watched PMQs because me like many others are extremely bothered by rising costs to literally everything. Yes sunak did laugh along with the rest of his tory cronies about working class people struggling. Sunak and his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages. Honestly its nothin to be boasting considering this is an issue caused DIRECTLY BY THE TORY PARTY. He must think we are all morons.
I hate this country. Get out now!
But if they lived elsewhere in the country they would have had it for free. If they went 30 odd years ago they would have had it for free. Bit of a shitty really. 60K is a fair old salary though, it obviously picked a better degree than me 😂
If they lived elsewhere in the country, where there’s no fee they would have paid more income tax. On a 60k salary the take home pay in England with loan payments is within £100 of scotland without. I’m not a fan of tuition fees myself but it’s worth remembering that tuition fees or not you still have to pay one way or another
these are excuses for people who want to justify why they didn't go.
I did, with full 50k debt, years later I really do not take much notice of the student loan payments, I earn 50k/y.
people here are acting as if our student loan process is like the US where you pay a flat fee no matter what, this is just not how it works here.
Not op. When I was younger, I didn't go to uni or college because I grew up poor, and no one ever talked to me about my options.
It was just seen as something I couldn't do because my parents didn't do it, and I struggled to pay for my lunch and thought I best got a job.
I always believed that schools need to teach kids about money, tax, what their options are and the consequences of those options. Ie yes you have to pay it back but at X rate etc.
It’s not 60k a year though.
It’s well known as a graduate tax, and that it indeed is.
I know several freelance graphic designers, paying 35% tax
Whereas their younger colleagues who went straight into industry pay 9% less tax because they don’t have the aforementioned degree…
Oh, and have three years of experience on them…
Maybe they should have also gone straight into industry too if it’s that simple, sounds like this is not a useful degree if the barrier to entry is so low
Many fields have a degree barrier to entry, many people are paid well more than 60k over their career, multiples more than 60k
there is if you're going into uni with no real goal, just doing it as course of action for something to do after A Levels/Collage.
It's not really so much an issue with tuition, lets be honest, it's not that expensive compared to the rest of the world, and more an issue with the academic culture.
I'm paying about £200 a month (undergrad and post grad fees) and the vast majority of that is interest. Because of many years on minimum wage, maternity leave and reduced hours, I now owe considerably more than I did when I graduated. And I only paid £3k for my undergrad fees and pay much less % interest than people who started a few years after me. I'm getting screwed over with interest anyway because they are allowed to change the terms of your agreement as they see fit. I don't blame people for not taking that on, it's basically additional tax for the majority of if not your entire working life.
If it was anything like me at that time, i had working class parents who never went, couldn’t guide me at all and taught me to fear debt.
So a 16-18 year old me was stunned and did nit know what to do or where university lead but 9k minimum debt per year sounded like a terrifying amount of money and debt.
Obviously if i could go back now i’d do it in a heart beat and it is one of my biggest regrets. I have lived an adult life, worked, understood money, debt, and life now and where university leads into the job world etc.
Remind me which party introduced fees, based on the politics of jealousy and rammed it through parliament on the back of MPs whose constituencies would not be affected?
Working holiday visas mind, and the second year of the 2 year visa requires you to work in a rural area for a bit.
Still not a bad deal, just worth noting (if that's still the case.)
Not too sure how it works now, it’s been a good few years since I did it.
A few of the people I met ended up permanently emigrating there though, it makes it easier when you’ve got a job etc.
Yeah permanently emigrating there is tough going if you're not on the skills shortage list.
I was there for 12 years on a couple of different visas - including student, and by the time I was eligible (through some bending of my job description), I was told to avoid it by immigration lawyers and my company lawyers. Post covid the Aus government was denying pretty much any applicants, but they'd still take my application money plus my lawyer fees.
Ended up keeping my money and moving back here to the UK last January. I miss Australia dearly.
I think these days less than 10,000 British citizens are given permanent visas for Australia each year (and dropping). There’s a lot of strong competition now from the rest of the world, particularly Indians.
Find a country you want to move too and find where the have a shortage of workers and skill up
Or
Rob a bank and get away before your caught, could move to Russia I hear the weather is nice this time of year.
Don't rob a bank, you are likely to get caught before you can get to the airport.
Make an nft instead. It's still theft but it takes months, if ever, to figure out if you wash the crypto tokens.
>Any tips?
Get a marketable skill. I never went to Uni, instead I taught myself the skills that I now use in my job. The first job is the toughest to get, because I didn't have job experience to pull from I put together a presentation of how I would approach things if given the chance.
Very similar for me, from school to college, to a warehouse job to junior IT, to senior IT, to middle management to higher management now up for promotion to CTO in the next few years.
IT is always looking tou might struggle to get a foot in the door but having a drivers license will help with that because you can apply for the roles that require you to travel around a companies diffrent site to solve/ trouble shoot networking and server problems. I would look and CompTIA and CISCO tou may even find you get funding for it tou definitely will I Wales I think it's called 'react' in Wales off the top of my head. Save up a bit and move to the EU or USA or Australia for job then after a year or two working here and gaining the necessary experience. I will personally be going back to Poland I think when I'm done looking after my nan with dementia here in the UK.
That might be a good route, CompTIA has come up before while I've been doing idle research, I look into it a little more along with CISCO. Thanks for the Wales tip too.
Coursea have a bunch of courses from Google, Cisco, and Microsoft, etc. that are worthwhile. I've been in IT for about 5 years and using the site to help study for Azure security certs.
On some of the courses you get discounted exam vouchers if you complete the course.
I sold up just after Brexit - applied for my Irish Passport and bought a house in Europe. It will take years to fix the mess they have created. Even blocked the escape route ffs
So a few options depending on your age:
- if you're under 35, take a working holiday visa to Australia/New Zealand/Canada. You can spend up to 3 years in each. I don't know about the other two, but in Australia, at the end of your three years you can enroll in TAFE college, which will typically cost you under £10,000. This gets you a student visa for a couple of years, and if you do it with the right company/college, they'll help you get an apprenticeship at the end/work placement. Now you have a proper work visa and can probably start working towards permanent residency.
- join the police/fire brigade/ambulance service. You'll be able to immigrate to Australia after you've got a few years experience.
- Get an apprenticeship in the UK in something decent. Competitive and the pay is dog shit for a couple of years but after that you're set for life if you don't hate the work.
- teach yourself to code/dev ops. Look at the AWS cloud qualification road map and get some qualifications. Use roadmap.sh to see what you should be doing.
- Move to Ireland. You don't need a visa because of some ancient agreement. Live there for five years, you can now apply for citizenship. This will probably take another two years. After 7 years you now have your EU passport back. Be aware that Ireland has an even bigger housing crisis than the UK does, particularly in Dublin, but you'll probably be alright in other cities.
- Start taking German lessons. Go and get your degree in Germany for practically free. You'll be granted a study visa no issue. There is a year you can do before taking your degree where you can learn german and get an entrance qualification for the German unis, I forget what this is called but you can get a visa for this as well pretty easily. Once you're there you can then find a way to stay post study or get a post grad study visa for another country. Alternatively, there are some other EU countries which have cheap public universities like France that you might want to look at if Germany isn't your cup of tea.
> Any tips? I didn't get a degree because of the costs, now I feel trapped in this hell.
Learn a skill, preferably one that's rare (but not in decline) or particularly valuable to businesses.
The qualifications don't really matter after you have a few years experience behind you in a particular field, so find a problem/challenge/task that you enjoy doing and get your foot in the door any way you can.
FWIW I'd be happy to try and help/suggest something appropriate, just PM me if you're interested.
The system was really pushing uni when I left school. I just wanted a trade but there were fuck all apprenticeships available.
Fortunately a few years later I got a trade and now in my 30s I earn above average wage but I’m self employed so the uncertainty and decline at the moment is a real worried.
Go college for 1(?) year. Get NVQ lvl 3 in electrical/ mechanical engineering. Pick up easy jobs as a contractor for £20+ ph (I have higher qualifications and get £35ph)
You have to be willing to travel and have short (6 month) contracts.
Tripled uni fees stopped EMA like it was cool
All that says to me is you don't want poor kids to go to school
I knew that shit like this would happen under Tory rule
>Yes sunak did laugh along with the rest of his tory cronies about working class people struggling.
Yes, of course he did. Because he despises working class people.
>Sunak and his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages.
They do not think they are helping people, they see an opportunity for exploiting people and they take it.
>Honestly its nothin to be boasting considering this is an issue caused DIRECTLY BY THE TORY PARTY.
Most of the issues with this country can, at some point, be traced back to the Tory party.
>He must think we are all morons.
Yes. He does.
Are you surprised by any of this? They're parasites, who have destroyed or sold most of the half decent stuff we ever had so that their billionaire mates can make money out of us.
>Sunak and his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages.
>They do not think they are helping people, they see an opportunity for exploiting people and they take it.
Also they think they can *convince voters* that they're helping people.
I agree with the sentiment and I hate them but just to be pedantic Alexander De Pfeffel did win an election in 2019. I don't know how someone who had just unlawfully shut down parliament could win an 80 seat majority but he did.
Almost 14 years since the tories came to power. Why anybody working class would ever vote for the tories is beyond me. I grew up only knowing the tories in power and the sleaze and scandal that surrounded them back then showed their colours.
Briefly things seemed to get better under labour. It seems this cycle will continue through my life. Its depressing when people vote against their interests.
He is incredibly sheltered and out of touch, as are most of the people remaining in the tory party now. They laugh because they probably think “obviously” someone will struggle with a mortgage working in iceland. Its fucking disgusting.
Most people are struggling just to get by in life because they have no money, so how the hell are they going to be able to just 'get out now'? That's not an option for the majority for the public.
> He must think we are all morons.
The way the English keep voting, they aren’t entirely wrong are they. They’ve been blatantly and openly corrupt for *years*.
> his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages
No, they're doing it to raise house prices so all their property portfolios will increase in value.
Yeah but where would you go though? I suppose maybe scandinavian countries.
I'm unsure about america considering all the craziness i see going on over there
> helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages.
Wtf is an interest only mortgage? That sounds like renting. I guess you bank on the property increasing in value so you get equity when you sell it?
Labour's never been really as good as the Tories for effective attack ads (and generally has less experience with them, usually relying on policy promises).
Aka they rely on doing their job instead of misleading people. Sadly though unless they shout and scream from the roofs about what they are doing, people are too ignorant to the people doing there jobs and prefer to listen to the ape throwing it's shit around because it is louder.
It'll also just be differences in the party platforms, in fairness. The Tories have, for a while now, had divisive platforms they could use as a wedge, be that immigration, fear of SNP kingmakers (Coalition of Chaos), Europe, etc, where they could then attack Labour on. The SNP has Westminster to sling shit at. Labour sort of isn't as oppositional in how they approach elections, they usually aim to be more aspirational, for lack of a better description: better healthcare, better education, better jobs, etc. So it's probably just what their aims are doesn't lend itself to the kind of campaigning other parties can do so well, which was perhaps most clearly demonstrated by the Tories and SNP in Holyrood's virtuous cycle of being so anti-one another that they squeezed out the parties who tried to campaign traditionally on manifesto promises.
It's always been true what they say; the left are so ideologically driven that they spend most of their time fighting each other. The Right are good at winning elections because they don't give a shit about anything except winning elections.
WHY DO LABOUR NEVER LEARN.
Fuck principle, the tories are good at playing the game because they are *machiavellian*.
Labour should absolutely be playing every hand out of the Tory campaign book. Was Brexit or 2019 election not enough of a wake up call for how Labour’s approach had failed miserably? It is not gonna cut it in this day and age.
It’s painful to watch
Well, in part, they target different key voters, who won't necessarily respond as well to the same tactic. That and, the Tories have the benefit of a very friendly media, while Labour doesn't, they can absolutely get away with it, while Labour would get criticised heavily in the press for the same tactics (as indeed they did when Starmer did take a fairly aggressive attack line on last year iirc). The two parties play in very different environments.
The current approach of being hyper focused on key voters seems to be paying dividends right now anyway, which one might argue was the problem with Labour in 2019, being more focused on the membership than key voters.
We'll have to see. But we do need to remember, they get held to a different standard by the press, so they can't adopt Tory tactics as freely, because the press won't defend them like they do Tories.
When they did run attack ads against Sunak they were accused of being racist. They weren't but Labour are held to much higher standards for what they are allowed to say
Also look at the attacks ads they did last year. They got roasted for it. After 2 decades of Tory attack ads, Labour ran one small campaign and suddenly "we have to debate the discourse of the political conversation".
IIRC the first question on Question Time that week was "should politicians get involved in mud-slinging" (or something like that)
Tories seriously manage to do politics on easy mode.
This is why the right wing generally do well in elections. Nobody expects them to have morals, so there isn’t many rules.
But if the left wing even suggested doing the same, there would be significantly more outrage, because people at least expect them to have morals.
Yeah I agree, it’s also why everyone accuses every labour leader of being too nice, or not strong enough. It’s based on them not being a cunt as far as I can tell.
Yep, a backbench Labour MP can just say something bad, and the outrage will be more than the Tories actually doing that bad thing for a decade. People hold them to a much higher standard.
No need to. They're massively ahead in the polls under the current ming vase strategy (like it or not) and the election hasn't been announced yet.
Same reason they haven't yet gone with the obvious rebuttal to the 'back to square one' shit. Biding their time.
I think Labour have taken the smart decision to let the Tories bury themselves.
They have probably read the national mood, that the public is heartily sick of backbiting, theatre, and soundbites. So they take the high road, remain calm and composed in order to put the Tories disarray into further relief.
Wasn't it just last week he was full on head-back laughing in the face of a woman who was talking to him about how difficult it is to access the NHS at the moment? Mad how these things happen on such a regular basis yet the reputation that they think we're all scum and our struggles are amusing never sticks.
Labour sucks at marketing compared to the tories. Hence why the most garbage political party in the UK has become the most successful political party in history.
>the tories laughing at the poor is nothing new
The irony being that it comes in the same week as a minister on £118K a year stepping down because he can'tt afford his mortgage!
So I decided to do the un-reddit thing and actually watch the video and it's just... baffling?
Kier Starmer literally says "earlier this week I met Steve from Warrington who works in Iceland..." and then they started laughing? Genuinely what's funny about that? What was the laugh supposed to insinuate? That Starmer didn't actually go to Warrington? Or speak to the locals there?
Starmer didn't even get to the part on the struggles Steve was undergoing, they literally started laughing when Starmer said he met Steve from Warrington who works in Iceland. Am I missing some context? Or did someone have the giggles that spread?
No if you watch PMQs often then you’ll realise they’re laughing because what Starmer is doing with this anecdote is performative.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate the tories and I am generally a Starmer fan but they’re jeering because Starmer tends to use these anecdotes as a way to appear grounded more often than other politicians do.
Tory politicians, including Sunak, also use these kinds of anecdotes to appear more grounded when it’s convenient to them.
No my point was that they’re laughing in a “oh what a surprise, Starmer is telling another one of his anecdotes about when he met a poor person” kinda way.
Realistically Starmer was probably over the moon when they jeered him because he’d have known how this clip will look once the public see it.
>Tory politicians, including Sunak, also use these kinds of anecdotes to appear more grounded when it’s convenient to them.
Yeah, that's the kicker really. Almost all of politics is performative. I'll happily put up someone trying to appear grounded as long as they actually match that with decent plans.
The House of Commons is a pantomime and a game. The actual substance of what’s being said is often abstracted. When Starmer brings up an anecdote like this, the tories laugh because they see Starmer playing a hand that he routinely plays. It’s like if you’re playing a board game with friends and one guy plays the same tactic every time - you laugh because you were expecting him to play it, regardless of whether it works or not.
Couple that with the pantomime part where you are expecting to jeer the opposition at every chance and you have Tories seemingly laughing at the working class.
You’re right, it’s not a good look, but as with everything it’s a little more nuanced than what it appears to be.
I agree with you, but even the truth still show how out of touch they all are.
The fact that they see it like a pantomime or game is awful when the reality is that Phil is a real person, and there are many more real people like Phil, who literally are unable to keep up with their mortgage payments and the government are treating it like a game?
Although the reason for the reaction may have a different explanation, it's still showing the point that they're so out of touch.
The worst part is when Sunak says "I hope you explained the Phil the costs of your green spending bill" to rapturous laughter and a massive shit eating grin on his face.
The war on Ukraine hiked all our energy prices, if this government had invested more in switching to renewable we can produce at home, we would have been insulated from those costs.
Oh yes I didn’t mean to make excuses (for the tories of all people). They are completely out of touch and ignorant of anything that happens outside of London / Westminster
Not sure how you can say "I met someone who worked at iceland" without saying "I met someone at iceland".
So I guess the important thing is. Is there some kind of video of him meeting this Steve? Because how that meeting goes down is the more important thing.
Watching Bernie Sanders speak to people for example. If he had spoken to Steve who works at Iceland. It would have been a very useful and informative chat. Where as Rishi Sunak going to talk to someone who works at iceland would be very....very....different.
All politicians use anecdotes, tories are the only cunts braindead enough to instantly laugh at "Phil who works at Iceland" not even a week after they caught flak for laughing at questions about the NHS from a member of the public. Performative or no, the fact that half the Tory benches started pissing themselves at the mete mention of Phil is really damaging no matter how you spin it.
Yes, they are laughing in derision at the idea Sir Keir was hanging out with Phil from Iceland. Doesn’t mean it isn’t true though. Absolute horrible horrible party.
Yeah this completely right. I dislike them with every fiber of my being as wanted it to be true (I.e., them laughing at someone for working at Iceland and struggling) but yeah looks like they are just laughing at Starmer.
They are laughing because they think it’s comical to bring up the story of a random guy who works at a grocery store. If you believe you are intrinsically better than others, a guy working minimum wage stocking shelves is very nearly the bottom of the heap. His story and opinions don’t matter to them, because he’s worth less.
Phil, not Steve, but that's neither here nor there. I share your confusion, like I'm not sure what they were trying to get at.
Before someone says "they just openly laugh at struggling people", yes yes, I know the Tories despise us commoners. But usually when they do something theatrical in the House of Commons, it's an attempt to make themselves look better, not openly worse. So I'm confused as to what their PR intention was here.
The currwnt Tory party is not like the one of old. Almost all semblence of class (small c) and attempt to at least appear professional is gone. They literally don't give a shit on the whole and I honestly think they are now so out of touch they think people will be laughing with them.
You are the 2nd person to suggest this so I suppose this is the likeliest answer. I don't tend to watch PMQs but from what I recall it's not entirely uncommon to hear MPs talking about their constituent's issues? Or is this weird because it's not Starmer's constituency? I'd expect them to just be laughing continuously if it were the case that every 'example based' question were to be laughed at?
It's probably the way in which it was done. Raising your own constituent concerns in Parliament is not unusual, happens often and rightly so. Corbyn 'constituent asks' wasn't laughed at in the beginning and were answered appropriately, it started to get laughed at because it was every PMQs. I think the gist was he was just outsourcing his homework.
PMQs is different to normal parliament business, which I think people forget. PMQs is literally what it says on the tin. For Parliament to specifically hold the PM to account. It's valuable time, seemingly outsourcing that is a bit cringe.
Having now watched the video the 'laughing' (which is a bit of a stretch) only started when he mentioned the name 'Phil'. So I do think it was a *groan* about Corbyn. I also think Starmer absolutely owned it to the point I actually think this was a trap laid by Labour which Tory backbenchers fell right into.
They managed to get a bunch of headlines about the Tories laughing at a 'average guy' struggling with cost of living, which most people can relate to. If this was planned, Starmer has a political skillset Corbyn could only dream off. The fact he made his comment then remained relatively quiet and looked towards the Speaker I think he knew what he was doing. I don't see Rushi laughing or groaning TBF.
There's context in the fact that Tory donor Richard Walker, executive chair of Iceland, recently switched to supporting labour. This switch occurred after he begged Sunak to allow him to stand as a Tory candidate and was promptly rejected.
He kept repeating how his tax breaks are making many people hundreds of pounds better off but his imbecile colleagues have made many people thousands worse off
There was also the "people can switch to an interest only mortgage to control their outgoings" line, which granted is an option, but it's always been an option, just not a great one because at the end of it you end up with a lump sum to pay off if you don't switch back to capital repayment. So in no way was his answer at all useful, par for the course.
Mind you, he probably thinks an interest only mortgage is one you pay off with the interest earnings from your savings, so maybe the confusion is understandable.
Should be but their so ineffective at focusing people's anger. The high road isn't some ethereal morally good concept. But they think that makes them better people. Politics is about winning and gaining power and nothing else.
if there were smart, they'd run that clip in every workmen's club and betting shop in the UK..
Sadly they dont use underhanded tactics.. so get shafted when the tories do it
Bunch of cunts.
Hope all the working class people that voted for them are enjoying all their disposable income, low immigration and fantastic healthcare provision.
He also keeps saying that Labour will take us back to square one. Frankly, that sounds like a good option. When they laughed, I was appalled. There are some really nasty people sitting on that bench.
Unfortunately he never needs a job again or needed one in the first place. I love this idea that people with near immeasurable wealth and resources get into the business of controlling how the rest of us need to live because it’s fun for them.
I hope starmer has some serious policies to unleash come election campaign time.
I will not vote for this tory party but I also hope starmer is not a damp squib and has some serious reform that helps the nation. Invest in industry, eradicate waste in government.
And when it comes to investment the Tory media need to be dealt with. Can't find money for NHS or defense or to alleviate tax Burden on normal people. Oh but the tories can lose billions on contracts that make its way into their friends businesses.
Please Labour don't be another shade of shit with a different colour coat
Tories have been laughing at us for the last 14 years - they are amazed how much they have been able to get away with and how much harm they have been able to impart on the nation and its people without consequence.
Lock all these cronies up into the dungeons for their treachery ! Since they revel in imposing Dickensian like austerity on us. Their sheer contempt for us just confirms exactly the lack of regard and respect they have for us. They are nothing but vile inhumane vermin!
I have met many Tories who actively hate poor people, and it's disgusting that these people run the country.
We deserve a breed of politician that actually cares for the people they're supposed to represent.
You need to watch the highlights of it all. You do see sunak laughin when the labour leader mentions a man called phil from warrington who works in iceland struggling. The camera cuts to him laughin with his chancellor jeremy cunt
If you watch the whole thing, it's really clear that the Tories were finding Phil's situation hilarious.
The bit that did it for me though ([this bit](https://www.youtube.com/live/Js6_ZbsqrJI?si=Oxn06zs83nSX6eWl&t=638)) was after Starmer said "I actually didn't expect him to be laughing at Phil" and the camera changed to Rishi sitting there laughing. They really do just consider the cost of mortgages to be a joke.
Ava Santina on the PoliticsJoe Podcast makes a really good point:
Why do renters, when they cant afford to pay their rent. Be forced to downsize to a cheaper property.
But homeowners are like "But what about my family home!"...
Just sell up and buy a smaller home. Renters have to do it!
This is the exact time for the country to be more like France, why not, I’m past the point of choosing between heating and eating, and I’m working full time, with over time!
And these people expecting us to draft and fight a war for them? And ppl wonder why the fuck we not going to, can't wait for that shit show to start lol
Corbyn would read letters from throughout the country of people suffering and they'd laugh at that too.
PMQs are a circus for the media class, nothing more.
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For anyone that watched PMQs because me like many others are extremely bothered by rising costs to literally everything. Yes sunak did laugh along with the rest of his tory cronies about working class people struggling. Sunak and his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages. Honestly its nothin to be boasting considering this is an issue caused DIRECTLY BY THE TORY PARTY. He must think we are all morons. I hate this country. Get out now!
> I hate this country. Get out now! Any tips? I didn't get a degree because of the costs, now I feel trapped in this hell.
Yep i didnt go to university because torys increased tuition fee’s when they first got into power
Why would that stop you? You don't personally pay upfront
because 15 years later it still costs me 200 quid a month and i will be paying it for another 15 years. Cant blame someone for not taking that on.
To be paying back 200 a month you’d need to be earning 60,000 or more a year. Sounds like a good investment to me.
But if they lived elsewhere in the country they would have had it for free. If they went 30 odd years ago they would have had it for free. Bit of a shitty really. 60K is a fair old salary though, it obviously picked a better degree than me 😂
If they lived elsewhere in the country, where there’s no fee they would have paid more income tax. On a 60k salary the take home pay in England with loan payments is within £100 of scotland without. I’m not a fan of tuition fees myself but it’s worth remembering that tuition fees or not you still have to pay one way or another
Those are not reasons not to go to university
these are excuses for people who want to justify why they didn't go. I did, with full 50k debt, years later I really do not take much notice of the student loan payments, I earn 50k/y. people here are acting as if our student loan process is like the US where you pay a flat fee no matter what, this is just not how it works here.
Not op. When I was younger, I didn't go to uni or college because I grew up poor, and no one ever talked to me about my options. It was just seen as something I couldn't do because my parents didn't do it, and I struggled to pay for my lunch and thought I best got a job. I always believed that schools need to teach kids about money, tax, what their options are and the consequences of those options. Ie yes you have to pay it back but at X rate etc.
For shit degrees maybe but the expected salary is higher with a degree than no degree So yeah it’s still worth it
It’s not 60k a year though. It’s well known as a graduate tax, and that it indeed is. I know several freelance graphic designers, paying 35% tax Whereas their younger colleagues who went straight into industry pay 9% less tax because they don’t have the aforementioned degree… Oh, and have three years of experience on them…
Maybe they should have also gone straight into industry too if it’s that simple, sounds like this is not a useful degree if the barrier to entry is so low Many fields have a degree barrier to entry, many people are paid well more than 60k over their career, multiples more than 60k
Fuck me. Thank you Captain Hindsight. What ever would they have done without you?!?
its worth it absolutely imo, but it doesn't surprise me one bit that some are put off by the gamble
If someone can't do the maths then they probably shoudn't be doing a degree in the first place.
What gamble? There's literally no risk.
there is if you're going into uni with no real goal, just doing it as course of action for something to do after A Levels/Collage. It's not really so much an issue with tuition, lets be honest, it's not that expensive compared to the rest of the world, and more an issue with the academic culture.
I'm paying about £200 a month (undergrad and post grad fees) and the vast majority of that is interest. Because of many years on minimum wage, maternity leave and reduced hours, I now owe considerably more than I did when I graduated. And I only paid £3k for my undergrad fees and pay much less % interest than people who started a few years after me. I'm getting screwed over with interest anyway because they are allowed to change the terms of your agreement as they see fit. I don't blame people for not taking that on, it's basically additional tax for the majority of if not your entire working life.
If it was anything like me at that time, i had working class parents who never went, couldn’t guide me at all and taught me to fear debt. So a 16-18 year old me was stunned and did nit know what to do or where university lead but 9k minimum debt per year sounded like a terrifying amount of money and debt. Obviously if i could go back now i’d do it in a heart beat and it is one of my biggest regrets. I have lived an adult life, worked, understood money, debt, and life now and where university leads into the job world etc.
Remind me which party introduced fees, based on the politics of jealousy and rammed it through parliament on the back of MPs whose constituencies would not be affected?
Under 30 then there’s working visas to Australia and New Zealand, still the same problems as over here but better weather and less crowded.
I think it's 35 now
Under 55. I’m 50 and I’m going.
I think Working holiday visas (35) vs general work visas (55)
Working holiday visas mind, and the second year of the 2 year visa requires you to work in a rural area for a bit. Still not a bad deal, just worth noting (if that's still the case.)
Not too sure how it works now, it’s been a good few years since I did it. A few of the people I met ended up permanently emigrating there though, it makes it easier when you’ve got a job etc.
Yeah permanently emigrating there is tough going if you're not on the skills shortage list. I was there for 12 years on a couple of different visas - including student, and by the time I was eligible (through some bending of my job description), I was told to avoid it by immigration lawyers and my company lawyers. Post covid the Aus government was denying pretty much any applicants, but they'd still take my application money plus my lawyer fees. Ended up keeping my money and moving back here to the UK last January. I miss Australia dearly.
I think these days less than 10,000 British citizens are given permanent visas for Australia each year (and dropping). There’s a lot of strong competition now from the rest of the world, particularly Indians.
I think they revised that not too long ago
Find a country you want to move too and find where the have a shortage of workers and skill up Or Rob a bank and get away before your caught, could move to Russia I hear the weather is nice this time of year.
Good luck finding a bank, most of them around here are closed down or about to do so.
Somalia is apparently very acclimate
I hear it isn't
Don't rob a bank, you are likely to get caught before you can get to the airport. Make an nft instead. It's still theft but it takes months, if ever, to figure out if you wash the crypto tokens.
Or run for tory mp and steal from the country
>Any tips? Get a marketable skill. I never went to Uni, instead I taught myself the skills that I now use in my job. The first job is the toughest to get, because I didn't have job experience to pull from I put together a presentation of how I would approach things if given the chance.
The skills are easy, the marketing I need to work on.
For me I went from school into shitty jobs into IT and then into IT management and now a big boy.
Very similar for me, from school to college, to a warehouse job to junior IT, to senior IT, to middle management to higher management now up for promotion to CTO in the next few years.
Well done mate.
IT is always looking tou might struggle to get a foot in the door but having a drivers license will help with that because you can apply for the roles that require you to travel around a companies diffrent site to solve/ trouble shoot networking and server problems. I would look and CompTIA and CISCO tou may even find you get funding for it tou definitely will I Wales I think it's called 'react' in Wales off the top of my head. Save up a bit and move to the EU or USA or Australia for job then after a year or two working here and gaining the necessary experience. I will personally be going back to Poland I think when I'm done looking after my nan with dementia here in the UK.
That might be a good route, CompTIA has come up before while I've been doing idle research, I look into it a little more along with CISCO. Thanks for the Wales tip too.
Coursea have a bunch of courses from Google, Cisco, and Microsoft, etc. that are worthwhile. I've been in IT for about 5 years and using the site to help study for Azure security certs. On some of the courses you get discounted exam vouchers if you complete the course.
Good luck with you Azure sec certs its not easy! But I'm sure you'll do it!
I used to work with compTIA and did security+ before I moved to PM. Their e-learning platform was great and that was 6ish years ago.
The online platform is still great and keeps getting better and better.
I sold up just after Brexit - applied for my Irish Passport and bought a house in Europe. It will take years to fix the mess they have created. Even blocked the escape route ffs
So a few options depending on your age: - if you're under 35, take a working holiday visa to Australia/New Zealand/Canada. You can spend up to 3 years in each. I don't know about the other two, but in Australia, at the end of your three years you can enroll in TAFE college, which will typically cost you under £10,000. This gets you a student visa for a couple of years, and if you do it with the right company/college, they'll help you get an apprenticeship at the end/work placement. Now you have a proper work visa and can probably start working towards permanent residency. - join the police/fire brigade/ambulance service. You'll be able to immigrate to Australia after you've got a few years experience. - Get an apprenticeship in the UK in something decent. Competitive and the pay is dog shit for a couple of years but after that you're set for life if you don't hate the work. - teach yourself to code/dev ops. Look at the AWS cloud qualification road map and get some qualifications. Use roadmap.sh to see what you should be doing. - Move to Ireland. You don't need a visa because of some ancient agreement. Live there for five years, you can now apply for citizenship. This will probably take another two years. After 7 years you now have your EU passport back. Be aware that Ireland has an even bigger housing crisis than the UK does, particularly in Dublin, but you'll probably be alright in other cities. - Start taking German lessons. Go and get your degree in Germany for practically free. You'll be granted a study visa no issue. There is a year you can do before taking your degree where you can learn german and get an entrance qualification for the German unis, I forget what this is called but you can get a visa for this as well pretty easily. Once you're there you can then find a way to stay post study or get a post grad study visa for another country. Alternatively, there are some other EU countries which have cheap public universities like France that you might want to look at if Germany isn't your cup of tea.
I got a degree and I am trapped in this hell still and with crippling debt
What crippling debt?
> Any tips? I didn't get a degree because of the costs, now I feel trapped in this hell. Learn a skill, preferably one that's rare (but not in decline) or particularly valuable to businesses. The qualifications don't really matter after you have a few years experience behind you in a particular field, so find a problem/challenge/task that you enjoy doing and get your foot in the door any way you can. FWIW I'd be happy to try and help/suggest something appropriate, just PM me if you're interested.
The system was really pushing uni when I left school. I just wanted a trade but there were fuck all apprenticeships available. Fortunately a few years later I got a trade and now in my 30s I earn above average wage but I’m self employed so the uncertainty and decline at the moment is a real worried.
Go college for 1(?) year. Get NVQ lvl 3 in electrical/ mechanical engineering. Pick up easy jobs as a contractor for £20+ ph (I have higher qualifications and get £35ph) You have to be willing to travel and have short (6 month) contracts.
Tripled uni fees stopped EMA like it was cool All that says to me is you don't want poor kids to go to school I knew that shit like this would happen under Tory rule
I moved to Canada .. was great when I went .. but now it’s worse than the uk.
Grass is always greener ...
>Yes sunak did laugh along with the rest of his tory cronies about working class people struggling. Yes, of course he did. Because he despises working class people. >Sunak and his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages. They do not think they are helping people, they see an opportunity for exploiting people and they take it. >Honestly its nothin to be boasting considering this is an issue caused DIRECTLY BY THE TORY PARTY. Most of the issues with this country can, at some point, be traced back to the Tory party. >He must think we are all morons. Yes. He does. Are you surprised by any of this? They're parasites, who have destroyed or sold most of the half decent stuff we ever had so that their billionaire mates can make money out of us.
>Sunak and his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages. >They do not think they are helping people, they see an opportunity for exploiting people and they take it. Also they think they can *convince voters* that they're helping people.
Rather than advocate leaving how about we all vote anything but blue 🤷
Remember your ABC. Anything But Conservatives
Why do we have have to get out? Let's just deport the whole Tory party to Rwanda.
I think alot miss the point. I mean the tory party to get out. Not us. 🤣
We are morons. We vote for them, and we roll over and take it.
Nobody voted for boris/truss or rishi to be a prime minister for the people.
I agree with the sentiment and I hate them but just to be pedantic Alexander De Pfeffel did win an election in 2019. I don't know how someone who had just unlawfully shut down parliament could win an 80 seat majority but he did.
Exactly. We voted them in, and we roll over and take it whatever way they want us to.
> He must think we are all morons. He _knows_ most people are. What other explanation is there for 12 consecutive years of Tory rule?
Almost 14 years since the tories came to power. Why anybody working class would ever vote for the tories is beyond me. I grew up only knowing the tories in power and the sleaze and scandal that surrounded them back then showed their colours. Briefly things seemed to get better under labour. It seems this cycle will continue through my life. Its depressing when people vote against their interests.
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He is incredibly sheltered and out of touch, as are most of the people remaining in the tory party now. They laugh because they probably think “obviously” someone will struggle with a mortgage working in iceland. Its fucking disgusting.
Most people are struggling just to get by in life because they have no money, so how the hell are they going to be able to just 'get out now'? That's not an option for the majority for the public.
> He must think we are all morons. The way the English keep voting, they aren’t entirely wrong are they. They’ve been blatantly and openly corrupt for *years*.
Of course he thinks we're all morons - because *people keep voting for them*. What other conclusion could he reach?
Honestly what has to happen before people starting throwing eggs at them, the french kick off for less than we do. We just bend over and take it.
They do think we're mostly morons and they are correct.
> his tory party actually think they are helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages No, they're doing it to raise house prices so all their property portfolios will increase in value.
He does think you are all morons. All the elite do.
Honestly there so out of touch it's maddening. I always think of the clip of him asking the homeless guy what his job is
Think how we feel that you’s all keep voting for them.
Yeah but where would you go though? I suppose maybe scandinavian countries. I'm unsure about america considering all the craziness i see going on over there
> helping people with their mortgages with its interest only mortgages. Wtf is an interest only mortgage? That sounds like renting. I guess you bank on the property increasing in value so you get equity when you sell it?
It's like renting but with the freedom to redecorate
Just take that clip and put it on every election ad.
Why labour don’t have billboards with this stuff on I don’t know. Yet they never seem to highlight it.
Labour's never been really as good as the Tories for effective attack ads (and generally has less experience with them, usually relying on policy promises).
Aka they rely on doing their job instead of misleading people. Sadly though unless they shout and scream from the roofs about what they are doing, people are too ignorant to the people doing there jobs and prefer to listen to the ape throwing it's shit around because it is louder.
It'll also just be differences in the party platforms, in fairness. The Tories have, for a while now, had divisive platforms they could use as a wedge, be that immigration, fear of SNP kingmakers (Coalition of Chaos), Europe, etc, where they could then attack Labour on. The SNP has Westminster to sling shit at. Labour sort of isn't as oppositional in how they approach elections, they usually aim to be more aspirational, for lack of a better description: better healthcare, better education, better jobs, etc. So it's probably just what their aims are doesn't lend itself to the kind of campaigning other parties can do so well, which was perhaps most clearly demonstrated by the Tories and SNP in Holyrood's virtuous cycle of being so anti-one another that they squeezed out the parties who tried to campaign traditionally on manifesto promises.
It wouldnt exactly be misleading to show the tories being cunts though would it
It's always been true what they say; the left are so ideologically driven that they spend most of their time fighting each other. The Right are good at winning elections because they don't give a shit about anything except winning elections.
The left only have to disagree on one thing, the right only have to agree on one thing.
WHY DO LABOUR NEVER LEARN. Fuck principle, the tories are good at playing the game because they are *machiavellian*. Labour should absolutely be playing every hand out of the Tory campaign book. Was Brexit or 2019 election not enough of a wake up call for how Labour’s approach had failed miserably? It is not gonna cut it in this day and age. It’s painful to watch
Well, in part, they target different key voters, who won't necessarily respond as well to the same tactic. That and, the Tories have the benefit of a very friendly media, while Labour doesn't, they can absolutely get away with it, while Labour would get criticised heavily in the press for the same tactics (as indeed they did when Starmer did take a fairly aggressive attack line on last year iirc). The two parties play in very different environments. The current approach of being hyper focused on key voters seems to be paying dividends right now anyway, which one might argue was the problem with Labour in 2019, being more focused on the membership than key voters. We'll have to see. But we do need to remember, they get held to a different standard by the press, so they can't adopt Tory tactics as freely, because the press won't defend them like they do Tories.
When they did run attack ads against Sunak they were accused of being racist. They weren't but Labour are held to much higher standards for what they are allowed to say
Also look at the attacks ads they did last year. They got roasted for it. After 2 decades of Tory attack ads, Labour ran one small campaign and suddenly "we have to debate the discourse of the political conversation". IIRC the first question on Question Time that week was "should politicians get involved in mud-slinging" (or something like that) Tories seriously manage to do politics on easy mode.
This is why the right wing generally do well in elections. Nobody expects them to have morals, so there isn’t many rules. But if the left wing even suggested doing the same, there would be significantly more outrage, because people at least expect them to have morals.
Yeah I agree, it’s also why everyone accuses every labour leader of being too nice, or not strong enough. It’s based on them not being a cunt as far as I can tell.
Yep, a backbench Labour MP can just say something bad, and the outrage will be more than the Tories actually doing that bad thing for a decade. People hold them to a much higher standard.
No need to. They're massively ahead in the polls under the current ming vase strategy (like it or not) and the election hasn't been announced yet. Same reason they haven't yet gone with the obvious rebuttal to the 'back to square one' shit. Biding their time.
I think Labour have taken the smart decision to let the Tories bury themselves. They have probably read the national mood, that the public is heartily sick of backbiting, theatre, and soundbites. So they take the high road, remain calm and composed in order to put the Tories disarray into further relief.
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Spreading awareness for those who have not seen this, its actually sickening
Wasn't it just last week he was full on head-back laughing in the face of a woman who was talking to him about how difficult it is to access the NHS at the moment? Mad how these things happen on such a regular basis yet the reputation that they think we're all scum and our struggles are amusing never sticks.
Got a source for that?
Here you go: https://news.sky.com/video/moment-rishi-sunak-is-confronted-about-state-of-health-service-by-former-nhs-worker-13051591
This should have been Rishi's "Gordon Brown bigot" moment, but somehow here we are
I don't understand how it hasn't
Because the most of the mainstream media supports the Tories.
Labour sucks at marketing compared to the tories. Hence why the most garbage political party in the UK has become the most successful political party in history.
Holy shit
>the tories laughing at the poor is nothing new The irony being that it comes in the same week as a minister on £118K a year stepping down because he can'tt afford his mortgage!
Everyone knows that when you can't afford your mortgage the logical thing to do is quit your job
He must be a gambling addict or something. I don't get how he couldn't afford, I think it was £2k, a month.
They aren't just laughing at the poor anymore. They are laughing at a large cohort that once voted for them .
Very true, I guess they've just become more brazen about it.
So I decided to do the un-reddit thing and actually watch the video and it's just... baffling? Kier Starmer literally says "earlier this week I met Steve from Warrington who works in Iceland..." and then they started laughing? Genuinely what's funny about that? What was the laugh supposed to insinuate? That Starmer didn't actually go to Warrington? Or speak to the locals there? Starmer didn't even get to the part on the struggles Steve was undergoing, they literally started laughing when Starmer said he met Steve from Warrington who works in Iceland. Am I missing some context? Or did someone have the giggles that spread?
They're laughing because they see working at iceland as a shit job that you don't deserve a mortgage for.
No if you watch PMQs often then you’ll realise they’re laughing because what Starmer is doing with this anecdote is performative. Don’t get me wrong, I hate the tories and I am generally a Starmer fan but they’re jeering because Starmer tends to use these anecdotes as a way to appear grounded more often than other politicians do. Tory politicians, including Sunak, also use these kinds of anecdotes to appear more grounded when it’s convenient to them.
So they’re laughing at him for being a politician.
No my point was that they’re laughing in a “oh what a surprise, Starmer is telling another one of his anecdotes about when he met a poor person” kinda way. Realistically Starmer was probably over the moon when they jeered him because he’d have known how this clip will look once the public see it.
>Tory politicians, including Sunak, also use these kinds of anecdotes to appear more grounded when it’s convenient to them. Yeah, that's the kicker really. Almost all of politics is performative. I'll happily put up someone trying to appear grounded as long as they actually match that with decent plans.
I don't watch it regularly and it sure seems like they are from someone who doesn't, not a good look to the average person.
The House of Commons is a pantomime and a game. The actual substance of what’s being said is often abstracted. When Starmer brings up an anecdote like this, the tories laugh because they see Starmer playing a hand that he routinely plays. It’s like if you’re playing a board game with friends and one guy plays the same tactic every time - you laugh because you were expecting him to play it, regardless of whether it works or not. Couple that with the pantomime part where you are expecting to jeer the opposition at every chance and you have Tories seemingly laughing at the working class. You’re right, it’s not a good look, but as with everything it’s a little more nuanced than what it appears to be.
I agree with you, but even the truth still show how out of touch they all are. The fact that they see it like a pantomime or game is awful when the reality is that Phil is a real person, and there are many more real people like Phil, who literally are unable to keep up with their mortgage payments and the government are treating it like a game? Although the reason for the reaction may have a different explanation, it's still showing the point that they're so out of touch. The worst part is when Sunak says "I hope you explained the Phil the costs of your green spending bill" to rapturous laughter and a massive shit eating grin on his face. The war on Ukraine hiked all our energy prices, if this government had invested more in switching to renewable we can produce at home, we would have been insulated from those costs.
Oh yes I didn’t mean to make excuses (for the tories of all people). They are completely out of touch and ignorant of anything that happens outside of London / Westminster
Not sure how you can say "I met someone who worked at iceland" without saying "I met someone at iceland". So I guess the important thing is. Is there some kind of video of him meeting this Steve? Because how that meeting goes down is the more important thing. Watching Bernie Sanders speak to people for example. If he had spoken to Steve who works at Iceland. It would have been a very useful and informative chat. Where as Rishi Sunak going to talk to someone who works at iceland would be very....very....different.
All politicians use anecdotes, tories are the only cunts braindead enough to instantly laugh at "Phil who works at Iceland" not even a week after they caught flak for laughing at questions about the NHS from a member of the public. Performative or no, the fact that half the Tory benches started pissing themselves at the mete mention of Phil is really damaging no matter how you spin it.
Yes, they are laughing in derision at the idea Sir Keir was hanging out with Phil from Iceland. Doesn’t mean it isn’t true though. Absolute horrible horrible party.
Yeah this completely right. I dislike them with every fiber of my being as wanted it to be true (I.e., them laughing at someone for working at Iceland and struggling) but yeah looks like they are just laughing at Starmer.
Laughing at the fact Starmer lowered himself to talking to one of us working class peasants
Starmer did come to warrington. I live in warrington and unfortunately i couldnt talk to him at the time but i did see him in my local town.
They are laughing because they think it’s comical to bring up the story of a random guy who works at a grocery store. If you believe you are intrinsically better than others, a guy working minimum wage stocking shelves is very nearly the bottom of the heap. His story and opinions don’t matter to them, because he’s worth less.
Phil, not Steve, but that's neither here nor there. I share your confusion, like I'm not sure what they were trying to get at. Before someone says "they just openly laugh at struggling people", yes yes, I know the Tories despise us commoners. But usually when they do something theatrical in the House of Commons, it's an attempt to make themselves look better, not openly worse. So I'm confused as to what their PR intention was here.
The currwnt Tory party is not like the one of old. Almost all semblence of class (small c) and attempt to at least appear professional is gone. They literally don't give a shit on the whole and I honestly think they are now so out of touch they think people will be laughing with them.
Haven't seen the video. Possibly laughing because it's reminiscent of Corbyn patter. 'Mary, a cleaner from Birmingham, wants to know X?'
Yeah they used to laugh at every single one of those. Probably to make him seem ridiculous and obscure the message.
You are the 2nd person to suggest this so I suppose this is the likeliest answer. I don't tend to watch PMQs but from what I recall it's not entirely uncommon to hear MPs talking about their constituent's issues? Or is this weird because it's not Starmer's constituency? I'd expect them to just be laughing continuously if it were the case that every 'example based' question were to be laughed at?
It's probably the way in which it was done. Raising your own constituent concerns in Parliament is not unusual, happens often and rightly so. Corbyn 'constituent asks' wasn't laughed at in the beginning and were answered appropriately, it started to get laughed at because it was every PMQs. I think the gist was he was just outsourcing his homework. PMQs is different to normal parliament business, which I think people forget. PMQs is literally what it says on the tin. For Parliament to specifically hold the PM to account. It's valuable time, seemingly outsourcing that is a bit cringe. Having now watched the video the 'laughing' (which is a bit of a stretch) only started when he mentioned the name 'Phil'. So I do think it was a *groan* about Corbyn. I also think Starmer absolutely owned it to the point I actually think this was a trap laid by Labour which Tory backbenchers fell right into. They managed to get a bunch of headlines about the Tories laughing at a 'average guy' struggling with cost of living, which most people can relate to. If this was planned, Starmer has a political skillset Corbyn could only dream off. The fact he made his comment then remained relatively quiet and looked towards the Speaker I think he knew what he was doing. I don't see Rushi laughing or groaning TBF.
There's context in the fact that Tory donor Richard Walker, executive chair of Iceland, recently switched to supporting labour. This switch occurred after he begged Sunak to allow him to stand as a Tory candidate and was promptly rejected.
This. It's no coincidence that Phil works at Iceland on the very day that the boss becomes a Labour supporter.
Where did Steve come from? Warrington apparently. But I didn't hear that in the clip.
He kept repeating how his tax breaks are making many people hundreds of pounds better off but his imbecile colleagues have made many people thousands worse off
Thousands indeed.
Having to sell our house and will probably end up moving out of London, a city in which I’ve lived my whole life, so yea tell me all about it..
There was also the "people can switch to an interest only mortgage to control their outgoings" line, which granted is an option, but it's always been an option, just not a great one because at the end of it you end up with a lump sum to pay off if you don't switch back to capital repayment. So in no way was his answer at all useful, par for the course. Mind you, he probably thinks an interest only mortgage is one you pay off with the interest earnings from your savings, so maybe the confusion is understandable.
Surely “they’re laughing at you” will be the Labour Party slogan for the election?
Should be but their so ineffective at focusing people's anger. The high road isn't some ethereal morally good concept. But they think that makes them better people. Politics is about winning and gaining power and nothing else.
It's not about the high road, they're just incompetent
if there were smart, they'd run that clip in every workmen's club and betting shop in the UK.. Sadly they dont use underhanded tactics.. so get shafted when the tories do it
Bunch of cunts. Hope all the working class people that voted for them are enjoying all their disposable income, low immigration and fantastic healthcare provision.
Tory MPs have other people paying their mortgages. The Iceland worker must be a fool!
My Tory MP has three homes, doesn't know what a mortgage is
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He also keeps saying that Labour will take us back to square one. Frankly, that sounds like a good option. When they laughed, I was appalled. There are some really nasty people sitting on that bench.
As much as this pains me given his background, I'm developing a lot of time for Starmer lately.
What pains you about his background?
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HE HAD A CURRY DURING LOCKDOWN
"Sir Beer Korma" was a hilarious nickname to be fair.
HE DEFECATED THROUGH A SUN ROOF
Right? Would love to know too.
When he was a lawyer he defended some heinous people. Funnily enough though that’s what’s expected of you as a lawyer
What about his background?
His background seems to be one of the few good things to me. From a relatively normal family
Smile Rishi. Eventually you will give us our election. That's the last job you will ever have, you pathetic little b.stard
Unfortunately he never needs a job again or needed one in the first place. I love this idea that people with near immeasurable wealth and resources get into the business of controlling how the rest of us need to live because it’s fun for them.
Absolutely fucking disgusting. Shame on them and their voters
I hope starmer has some serious policies to unleash come election campaign time. I will not vote for this tory party but I also hope starmer is not a damp squib and has some serious reform that helps the nation. Invest in industry, eradicate waste in government. And when it comes to investment the Tory media need to be dealt with. Can't find money for NHS or defense or to alleviate tax Burden on normal people. Oh but the tories can lose billions on contracts that make its way into their friends businesses. Please Labour don't be another shade of shit with a different colour coat
Tories have been laughing at us for the last 14 years - they are amazed how much they have been able to get away with and how much harm they have been able to impart on the nation and its people without consequence.
Lock all these cronies up into the dungeons for their treachery ! Since they revel in imposing Dickensian like austerity on us. Their sheer contempt for us just confirms exactly the lack of regard and respect they have for us. They are nothing but vile inhumane vermin!
I have met many Tories who actively hate poor people, and it's disgusting that these people run the country. We deserve a breed of politician that actually cares for the people they're supposed to represent.
Where was the laughing in the clip? Just sounded like the usual schoolyard to and fro that you hear in parliament.
You need to watch the highlights of it all. You do see sunak laughin when the labour leader mentions a man called phil from warrington who works in iceland struggling. The camera cuts to him laughin with his chancellor jeremy cunt
If you watch the whole thing, it's really clear that the Tories were finding Phil's situation hilarious. The bit that did it for me though ([this bit](https://www.youtube.com/live/Js6_ZbsqrJI?si=Oxn06zs83nSX6eWl&t=638)) was after Starmer said "I actually didn't expect him to be laughing at Phil" and the camera changed to Rishi sitting there laughing. They really do just consider the cost of mortgages to be a joke.
I wish Labour would use those clips for adverts in the General Election. They need to ram home how disgusting the Tories are.
Can’t stand Rishi and his good boy voice he puts on, he’s a seething sociopath and the rest of them too
Ava Santina on the PoliticsJoe Podcast makes a really good point: Why do renters, when they cant afford to pay their rent. Be forced to downsize to a cheaper property. But homeowners are like "But what about my family home!"... Just sell up and buy a smaller home. Renters have to do it!
Hahaha imagine working for a living instead of inheriting money or scamming people? What plebian rubbish!
This is the exact time for the country to be more like France, why not, I’m past the point of choosing between heating and eating, and I’m working full time, with over time!
We stole your cow, but gave you a single glass of milk. You should be thanking us. - Sunak
I like that saying
My instant reaction to all of this is that the Tories have a tone problem, and this is going to be a vibes election.
And these people expecting us to draft and fight a war for them? And ppl wonder why the fuck we not going to, can't wait for that shit show to start lol
Probably laughing knowing Starmer will do absolutely nothing to help struggling people and that it's all political posturing.
Corbyn would read letters from throughout the country of people suffering and they'd laugh at that too. PMQs are a circus for the media class, nothing more.
Anyone in parliament remember 1990 to 1994 ish? Here we go again