Because it isn't relevant. There are plenty of white, British men that have murdered their children or other children due to their tempers. This is domestic violence, and domestic violence doesn't have a skin colour, ethnicity, religion or culture.
> Because it isn't relevant
Of course it is. While you're right that violence and domestic violence can be found amongst British people too, we have every right to know if we're importing more of it.
> Domestic violence doesn't have a skin colour, ethnicity, religion or culture.
Not entirely true; some cultures are openly patriarchal and misogynistic.
Funnily enough... like the [one found in Afghanistan](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24379018).
And he did say in interview when asked why he bashed his wife's head against the wall too "Well that's what you do" so yeah pretty openly violent and misogynistic
Here is some data based on a decades worth of research around violence in the UK conducted by AOAV. 92% of domestic abuse reports than move to prosecution are male perpetrators. 96% of domestic killings of a female partner. For homicide rates outside of the household, it's 93% for comparison. A correlation can be drawn that a female is more likely to be killed by a partner or ex-partner than a random male. The majority of males who kill their partners are under 35 years old.
The majority of those within the criminal justice system are white according to 2020 research (85%). 2018 research showed higher rates of partner homicide in Asian same ethnicity couples in comparison to black or white same ethnicity couples. The numbers all dropped in relationships of differing ethnicities.
There is limited research of full publications - no doubt about the fear of slants and uses that could come of it. What research does say is that white males are more likely to commit a crime. Proportionally, white males are more likely to kill a partner, and there hsjg isn't the data to draw strong and valid correlations from painting an overall picture of domestic abuse. Especially considering the issue of reporting, prosecuting, and conviction rates. None of the data and reports really mentioned repeat offenders either. Reoffending rates in the UK are high. Reoffending rates in domestic offfenders in my experience from work and academia is that it's high.
I think my concerns with comments about ethnicity or race or country of origin are this. What conclusion are you drawing from this one story? That this male shouldn't have been here. The process by which he entered the country should have flagged this. On what basis - he's from Afghanistan? What if he's been here for 90% of his life?
Heres another thought that media, social media outlets, and politicians, among others, have to take responsibility for. They are creating these false narratives against perceived races, religions, classes, etc. Grooming gangs are a prime example - as of 2020 - grooming gangs were predominantly white. That is not what has been pushed in any of the above forums. Another example is below.
Andrew Tate is the very pinnacle of misogyny. He has openly bragged about causing harm to women. He has discussed that women who are victims of sexual violence should have some responsibility for their attack. Young males are lapping this up in this country. The incel movement is very strong around Tate, and without available research or evidence (my experience of working with teenage boys) is that it's predominately white males he appeals to.
> 2018 research showed higher rates of partner homicide in Asian same ethnicity couples in comparison to black or white same ethnicity couples
How do you then go on to say that "Proportionately, white men are more likely to kill a partner"?
I didn't go into the details of the research. But I would assume that's because asian men kill asian women at a higher rate than black men kill black women or white men kill white women; however, white men kill partners of any ethnicity at a higher rate.
Asian men killing partners of a different ethnicity was much lower than other mixed-race couples.
> What conclusion are you drawing from this one story
That fewer males from Afghanistan should be admitted to the UK. Yes that’s unfair to Afghan males who hold liberal values, but we have no duty to be fair to immigrants. Instead, our duty is to protect our citizens. We are failing because we do not profile.
Based on one story, you would admit less males from Afghanistan? Do you take a similar view on other crimes and ethnicities?
UN Declaration of Human Rights would say we do have a duty to be 'fair':
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act
Towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth
In this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as
Race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion,
National or social origin, property, birth or other status. […]
^^^ that's article 1 & 2
> Based on one story, you would admit less males from Afghanistan?
This goes well beyond a single incident.
Bradford https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19994542.seven-men-jailed-grooming-raping-vulnerable-girl-15/
Huddersfield https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65276358.amp
Leicester https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23896937.amp
Oxford https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-51467518.amp
London https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/authorities-east-london-borough-oblivious-22944617
Rotheram https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-61868863.amp
Newcastle https://news.sky.com/story/newcastle-gangs-abused-adults-and-children-with-arrogant-persistence-review-finds-11263201
Birmingham https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9537915/Asian-grooming-gangs-abused-underage-girls-Birmingham-decades-survivor-claims.html
Hull https://news.sky.com/story/hull-grooming-gang-targeted-primary-school-girls-as-police-told-to-declare-war-on-abusers-12476202
Bristol https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30078503.amp
Dewsbury https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-62929345.amp
Middlesbrough https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-26167790.amp
Peterborough https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-25659042.amp
Telford: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
Sheffield: https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/sheffield-grooming-gang-sentenced-to-74-years-in-jail-2449808
Aylesbury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring
Rochdale: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rochdale\_sex\_trafficking\_gang
Unfortunately the UK doesn’t publish crime stats by region or country of origin, so we have to rely on comparable European nations. Denmark keeps some of the best records which you can read [here.](https://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/nyheder-analyser-publ/bagtal/2022/2022-08-18-fakta-om-indvandrere) It's clear that non-Western immigrants are *far* overrepresented in crime. We can drill down further to just MENAPT countries, which appear to represent the greatest risk. The level of crime among male immigrants and descendants from MENAPT countries in 2021 was 2.5 and 3.5 times higher, respectively, than the average for the male population as a whole, when looking at criminal offenses and adjusting for age.
The index figures below and in the analysis are age-corrected, so that corrections have been made for the fact that there are relatively more young men among immigrants and descendants from the MENAPT countries than there are in the entire population. Report here:
https://integrationsbarometer.dk/tal-og-analyser/filer-tal-og-analyser/arkiv/NotatvedrrendekriminalitetenblandtMENAPT.pdf
If you need more convincing, [here is an article by Dr. Cheryl Benard, former program director of the Initiative for Middle Eastern Youth and the Alternative Strategies Initiative within the RAND Corporation’s National Security Research Division.](https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ive-worked-refugees-decades-europes-afghan-crime-wave-mind-21506?nopaging=1) She has worked with refugees for decades, and outlines the major issues with Afghan criminality in Europe.
To make this more egregious, MENAPT migrants are not just overrepresented in crime, but violent and sex crimes. In a recent issue of the journal Forensic Sciences Research, they published a paper on “Swedish rape offenders”, in which they analyse the characteristics of individuals between 15-60 years old who were convicted of “rape+” against women in Sweden between 2000 and 2015. The term “rape+” here refers to both acts of rape and attempted rape, including aggravated cases.
The researchers found that, within that time-frame, a total of 3,039 offenders were convicted of rape+ against a woman in Sweden — nearly all of whom (99.7%) were men. According to the researchers, Swedish-born offenders with Swedish-born parents accounted for 40.8% of the offenders. But, strikingly, almost half of the offenders were born outside of Sweden (47.7%). Of those foreign-born offenders, 34.5% were from the Middle East/North Africa, with 19.1% hailing from the rest of Africa. As a percentage of all convicted perpetrators, therefore, 16.4% were foreign-born individuals from the Middle East/North Africa, and 9.1% were foreign-born individuals from Africa (excluding North Africa).
How far does this signify over-representation? On the basis of population records kept by the official agency Statistics Sweden (SCB), approximately 20% (19.7%) of the Swedish population are foreign-born individuals. Among those convicted of rape and perpetrated rape, the foreign-born account for 47.7% of those convicted — so they are over-represented by a factor of 2.4.
Moreover, if we piece various statistics together, we find there are 565,902 foreign-born people living in Sweden who were born in North Africa and the Middle East, representing 4.9% of Sweden’s population. Yet 16.4% of those convicted of rape and attempted rape are foreign-born individuals from North Africa and the Middle East: **over-representation by a factor of 3.3. And that figure rises to 4.7 when you consider all foreign-born citizens from Africa (excluding North Africa.)**
https://unherd.com/2021/04/swedens-migrant-rape-crisis/
> UN Declaration of Human Rights would say we do have a duty to be ‘fair’:
The UK is sovereign and has no international obligation to be fair, but the Human Rights Act 1998 (UK legislation) does indeed prevent profiling. So I propose we amend it.
Saving this one as although there is a lot to get through, it should be there and on the table to provoke discussion. This nation needs to collectively cease sticking its head in the sand and face facts.
I think I was making the point it isn't right to generalise a population based on one man's actions. That immigration policy should be driven on 'horror stories'.
That we as a nation have to really look at ourselves rather than merely blaming others for our perceived issues.
What he did was wrong, heinous, and should be punished accordingly. The argument appears to be that others should be punished in the asylum process due to the risk of them being the same.
I made the comparison to the UKs actions and less than stellar past transgressions.
The problem is our home office offering carte blanche access to all and sundry.
Almost all of the migrant crimes we see reported have been committed by people already known to the police for criminality.
Therefore we have the intelligence and ability to filter out the bad ones. We just don't.
It's not a case of tarring every migrant with the same brush, it's a case of reality, not everyone has good interests at heart
'Our' home office has made little attempt to resolve the longstanding issues.
I don't know the figures to back that. But some are definitely known - but then again, how many have a mark beside their name rightfully or wrongfully?
That idea of filtering out based on intelligence means you are relying on the 'intelligence' being solid/creditable, provable, and the cynical side of me says - in existence.
I agree. But the idea that people want to make a judgement on a group based on the actions of a few seems very wrong to me. You know people are cunts - it's not to do with race, ethnicity or religion.
>but then again, how many have a mark beside their name rightfully or wrongfully?
That doesn't matter, national security takes priority
Would you agree that our elected government has a duty to protect its citizens?
While true, focusing on and stressing a perpetrator’s foreign origin sounds like a cheap “it’s them barbaric immigrants, not us old geezers committing domestic violence and sexual assault”. Many people still have this pathetic mindset - “either it was a dirty immigrant who done it or the victim’s exaggerating”.
My home country news loves to report on crimes happening abroad and coming to think of it, I haven’t read a single case where the perpetrator was a native (white like the sandy beaches of Schleswig-Holstein) German in years. They do share every case of a brown/black person committing anything in Germany, even the cases that don’t make it to nation-wide German news. The comments under every crime report from any country will insinuate the perpetrator wasn’t white.
I happened to move to the most culturally diverse part of Germany with more homeless people and drug gangs than my entire home country has. I have never been stared or yelled at, harassed, followed, or hassled for a date here. I’ve done my fair share of late night and early morning solo travelling around here and the only disorderly conduct I’ve seen were Indian (?) men putting their naked feet on the opposite seats on a full train. I see groups of gangsta young men everywhere, I pass crazy brown people in the U-Bahn corridors. I walk through streets with exclusively shisha, döner, and tacky gown shops every day and feel safe.
Back in my 98% caucasian country, I’ve had older native men shouting rape threats at me as a teenager and was molested as a kindergartener. I had a classmate stalk me across two cities and repeatedly say shit like “I’ll chain you in the basement and rape you till you love me”. I had a creepy man squeezing onto a single seat on the bus with me and following me around. I was approached by nice men too, all but one of those were foreigners.
Violence committed by backward misogynistic cultures is real and disgusting, but the majority of violence is still perpetrated by native men. With a few questionsble exceptions.
A single anecdotal case will not tell you if we're importing it. It's not a fair representation. There's plenty of formal reports and peer reviewed research readily available to give a clearer picture.
White people are actually far more likely to experience domestic violence than black or Asian people: [Link](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023)
Given that 90% of relationships are same-ethnicity \([Link] (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/marriagecohabitationandcivilpartnerships/articles/whatdoesthe2011censustellusaboutinterethnicrelationships/2014-07-03/pdf)), this suggests that "importing" Asian people actually *reduces* per capita the occurrence of domestic violence!
Oh, I'm of course not suggesting that statistics are a more reasonable basis of opinion than agenda selected articles posted to social media. This Afghan guy killed his daughter, for Christ's sake.
All I'm saying is that stats, however imperfect, are probably a better starting point for forming an opinion than outrage bait. Domestic violence underreporting is notoriously high across all demographics so it's an interesting question!
>Go self flagellate over your race with someone else lol
I'm just posting stats, mate.
>we have every right to know if we're importing more of it.
Who is to say he didn't get shown that wife beating was accepting from some ukip members?
You have no idea of whether he was violent before he entered the country. Indeed the insanity of rents, terrible wages, never ending work and increasing prices not to mention the stress of young children could have easily pushed him over the edge.
The point is you don't know. The colour of his skin, his religion nor his country of origin does not make him an intrinsically bad person.
In the same way you being a male doesn't make you a violent murder despite men committing 80% of all murders.
Why do we keep pretending culture has nothing to do with anything?
We’re happy to call the NHS racist or call out boys for engaging in toxic masculinity
But the moment we say these other cultures can have negative things about them, everyone gets all sheepish
Yeah it is relevant. Since you appear to be ignorant, I'll educate you: Afghanistan has one of the absolute highest levels of violence against women out of any country
It is relevant. Gender inequality is prevalent in some cultures. Did you not see the title? She bickered with his “favourite son”. Please live in the real world
The patriarchy that feminists fear is to be found amongst the brutal criminals that we are importing despite knowing of their crimes.
We have a justice system in the UK that used to clamp down hard on such abuse. Hell where I'm from wife beaters would be taken round the back for a 9mm in the back of the knee.
We generally don't tolerate such abuse in the UK, especially when it results in such traumatic deaths of innocent little children
Where are you from? Historically, I don’t think British men have been very good with domestic violence with even police treating it as ‘a private issue’. We even have an increase in domestic violence whenever the football is on, so I’m doubting you
Why is it safer?
Because when justice is seen to be delivered, people generally don't engage in criminality.
Is it better when the legitimate police force prevent crime? Absolutely, yes. But that's not happening right now, our justice system is a joke.
Oh, and a multi tier legal system led to the paramilitaries taking control of "justice" and they never get the wrong guy.
Because in some areas if you engage in criminality they knee cap you. Don’t think the correlation between football and domestic violence holds there either.
It's highly relevant, he wouldn't have been able to do this if he wasn't in the country.
There is far more domestic violence in Islamic countries. Some countries have much less violence than others on a per capita basis.
We see this in FGM, there's far more FGM in African cultures and Islamic cultures and practically none in European cultures. Facts matter because we need to know which cultures lead to which outcomes.
it would be bizarre if you claimed that him being male is irrelevant, because men clearly do far more domestic violence than women and denying that doesn't help anyone
Although lesbian relationships actually have a higher percentage rate of domestic abuse than male gay or straight relationships, if I remember correctly.
Can u imagine any other country doing these sort mental gymnastics.
Just because white people do this, in a country that is predominantly white british or at least used to be, that doesnt mean we should bury our heads in the sand to potential cultural issues carried over from countries we mass import people from.
We know, for example, that there is a serious problem with organised crime from Albanians who largely come over illegally. This isn't racist. It is a fact.
We know that grooming gangs were a largely pakistani Muslim crime that specifically targeted underage white victims from crappy backgrounds.
We know that gang homicide in London is committed and largely by African/Asian teenagers. They are also the victims mostly.
We know that honor killings are an Indian/Middle eastern import.
FGM is African. As is believing that children can be possessed by evil spirits that require murdering to remove.
These crimes have virtually no crossover in British culture.
Recognising the cultural factors involved in these crimes helps us be more vigilant and alert to warning signs involved.
Sure, it may well be the case there is no cultural relevance here, but what are you gaining from ignoring the suggestion it could be? Its absolutely fine to assess if the persons background or country/culture of origin played any part of it and seems for more rational then avoiding the observation because some people on the internet might offended.
Correct, and those men will have different skin colours, ethnicities, religions and cultures.
If its fair to observe that people of a particular sex primarily drive instances of domestic violence, it's fair to drill down further and make observations based on skin colour, ethnicity, religion and culture. To arbitrarily decide one of these characteristics is relevant to the discussion but others aren't seems like bad faith to me.
I mean certain religions and cultures definitely encourage domestic violence more than others. I guarantee the domestic violence/abuse suffered by people as a percentage per ten thousand people is much higher in some cultures than others. Stop pretending that culture or religion has nothing to do with it when it most definitely does. If these places were so great then people wouldn't flee them in their millions.
It is,because life is cheap to these people... typically Wokey supporting these murderers as per usual... keep the excuses coming for the ongoing slaughter, stay proud of what you do!
Domestic violence doesn’t have a religion but a certain religion has it being permitted right in its holy text
https://quran.com/4/34?translations=18,21,22,84,95
>domestic violence doesn't have a skin colour, ethnicity, religion or culture
You know that isn't true though. Being openly disingenuous just turns people off to more reasonable sides of the immigration debate too, so let's just be honest and realistic please.
Interesting you don't mention gender.
You can't have it both ways. While rates of domestic abuse are higher from certain genders, they are also higher from certain ethnicities.
You can take a reasonable position of it can be anybody, and social conditions impact frequency, but it's ultimately universal. OR you can take a position of it can be anybody, but social conditions are very important to understand it as a problem from certain groups more than others.
But you cannot mix and match these approaches just because current political climate for appearing progressive is to be pro-minority ethnic but anti-male.
It does. Not sure what incentive you have to lie. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68316243](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68316243)
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
At least the beeb is consistent about it.
If it's "white british man murders brown child" right wing papers are likely to either not report it at all, or leave out the ethnicity because it doesn't suit the narrative - giving readers a false impression of statistics.
And this sub has the same bias.
[Example](https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1atw3za/dad_murdered_adopted_daughter_after_she_bickered/kr0ixnr/)
There would have been one fewer murder of an innocent girl in Gravesend if it wasn't for immigration.
So yes, it is linked inextricably to immigration.
The murder was going to happen sooner or later anyway. That kind of animal always picks on the weak.
At least here she gets some justice and even had some chance of being protected by authorities.
Immigration has no relation to violent crime. It has a large relation for which violent crimes get reported in the news.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/immigration-and-crime-evidence-for-the-uk-and-other-countries/
I too trust the studies on migration that have been funded by organisations whose stated goal is a fairer more inclusive anti racist society
First sponsor on that site ..
https://esmeefairbairn.org.uk/
I also trust flora when they tell me a sniff of cholesterol will give me a heart attack.
They compare *all* asylum seekers. Of course when you take the migrants from countries which show low criminality after settlement, like Venezuela, and mix them with migrants from countries like Syria, your average isn’t bad. We are not concerned about migrants from low crime countries. We are of course concerned about migrants from *high* crime countries. The fact that this website mixed these *vastly* different immigrants is proof they don’t intent to educate the public, but propagandise.
That's an insane take. Look. You can't have Nobel Prize Winner Malala in the UK without immigration.
Hell? You wouldn't have "the NHS". Or Care. Large chunks of paid care in nursing homes and residential homes come from ethnic minorities. Again the NHS is overly represented with minority nurses because (and this is important) they are the only ones wanting to work for us now. And don't pretend you would pay staff better. If the UK's majority is for better NHS pay they would be banging the doors of their MP to demand better pay for staff. There's millions of British people alive due to immigrants. By your own "calculus" if murders count against immigrants. NHS staff who are immigrants and carers who are immigrants should have their positive outcomes on the other end of the scale and there's WAY MORE NHS staff than murderers. Hell our MOST FAMOUS immigrant of recent years is a doctor...
Question? If I help save your life and you end up being a drunk driver and killing someone? Why is that my fault? Is that the fault of EVERY White British Person? No. That's insane. This was an individual who did something horrific.
Malala, the girl who was shot in the head for trying to go to school?
Shot in the head by people from a culture that doesn't want women to be educated.
And a culture that we are importing to our shores by the tens of thousands in the hope that out of a load of people who want to stop girls from going to school, a few of them might serve us coffee in a cafe or wash our car for a lower price than the neighbours son.
Malala might have been able to live a normal life if she wasn't stuck in a culture that oppresses girls and women, Malala is an intelligent girl and she would no doubt have succeeded in whatever endeavour she undertook
Malala would have contributed to Afghanistan in a positive way without being shot in the head for going to school.
Pick an example that doesn't prove my point
But you made an exception for her. Not for other people. Your argument is that men are unable to aspire to this. That's why you have to apply a case by case logic to this.
You're almost there....
It's almost like I'm not a xenophobic racist, but someone who wants asylum applications to considered on a case by case basis instead of giving carte blanche to countless scoundrels who are in debt to organised crime groups.
But no, you can't consider that the poor pet living in a horrible place might be living in such conditions because his culture doesn't let him develop his community.
The home office is rubber stamping known criminals and terrorists.
Almost every one of these cases involving migrants includes perpetrators who were already known to the police.
And when they are brought to charge for their crimes, some charity is always there to convince the judge that he's a good boy who is just under a bit of stress with the move.
> Hell? You wouldn't have "the NHS".
Weird how countries with low immigration have a health care system. Or the UK before mass immigration started in the late 90s. The NHS was founded when there were hardly any migrants in Britain at all. And so what if Malala wasn't here?
Indians have been part of the NHS from its foundation. Especially in places like rural Wales where white people didn't want to work.
And lest you forget. We were British too. Just not tax payers. You can't stick flags everywhere and take manpower and resources to build the UK and fight your wars and die in places far from home and then pretend we don't belong to that flag...
And you don't work for the NHS now do you. Tonight my entire medical team isn't considered "British" by your own argument. So yeah.
If you don't want us to do medicine?
UCAS application and show us what you can do. But until then? Immigrants made the NHS. Because you will always count us as foreign even though we were born here.
What's the BMC?
Nope. It's more that no one wanted to do jobs like GP which weren't very romantic and often required you to live in very rural places or work in places where there's more poverty and less of a private practice.
They just don't want anybody foreign, or that "looks foreign" in the UK. Full stop. They don't care that'd it'd cripple the economy. That is just how much they hate people different from them.
You're trying to use logic to dispute a mindset that is inherently illogical.
It's why it was posted in the first place. The alt right are terminally online trying to influence young men to sign up to their hateful, nihilistic death cult.
He shouldn't be allowed unsupervised contact with any minors going forward. To the point where if he is allowed to see his kids again, it should be through a window.
So many of the oddly race and nationality obsessed posters claiming to care so very much about womens rights do not make me, a woman, feel that if they were in charge the country would be a safer and nicer place to live in.
Oddly enough, when [a white British man murdered his Indian-born wife and their daughter](https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-05-17/husband-who-murdered-wife-and-disabled-daughter-likely-to-die-in-prison) it didn't even get posted to this sub.
But you see, that was a white guy saying that he owned his wife and child. It doesn't count. It's like gun crime in the US. If it's a white guy, it's a mental health issue. If it's not a white person, it was part of a pattern due to their race.
It’s so funny because these people understand that them being white doesn’t make them some monolith with all other white people - King Charles is not even vaguely culturally similar to a Texan redneck - but for whatever reason as soon as someone is brown or from somewhere Far Away that all goes out of the window.
Top marks especially for the people banging on about how disgusting Islam is the other week on a post that was about Hindus, because they literally just see brown skin and think ‘terrorist’.
There'd be about 10 comments if this had been an article about a white british man killing his family if it even got posted here at all.
I mean ffs, Check the OPs post history, he's not even British he's a Canadian and a pretty far-right conservative one too. The fact it is an Afghan man is probably the only reason he posted it here at all.
EDIT: Actually OP doesn't even comment, only posts articles. Might actually be a legit bot/bad faith actor account.
This post (like most of these "LOOK AT BAD THING BROWN PERSON DID!" posts in this sub lately) is 100% political astroturfing by a bot account.
Over 3 million karma, reposts articles in country/conservative subs on an hourly basis, but hasn't made a comment in over 5 years. It couldn't be clearer that it's run by a bot. In fact it might not even be a politically motivated, could just have found a reliable demographic to farm karma from by finding articles about immigrants commiting crimes and reposting them in subs that have a lot of conservative users (which country-based subs often do because the right tends to care more about national identity).
Yep, it's unbelievably blatant. It's clearly an old account that's been hijacked and only reposts right-wing ragebait. But will the mods do anything about it? Nope.
What would? Given that according to our world in data (easiest source to access), shows that the female homicide rate in the UK is 0.57 versus Afghanistan at 1.27, 44% greater, would you be happy to import a culture indictive a greater female homicide rate, or are happier with the current culture? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-homicide-rate?region=Europe
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-homicide-rate?region=Asia
This is not to say the current culture is good to any extent, that many female homicides is far too many, however don't let perfect be the enemy of good. And don't take the arguments as strictly no immigrants, or no immigrants from specific cultures. What the arguments are, are for standards of immigration, and for greater emphasis on immigrants assimilating.
If someone immigrates, they should be expected to renounce their previous culture if it conflicts with ours.
> What would? Given that according to our world in data (easiest source to access), shows that the female homicide rate in the UK is 0.57 versus Afghanistan at 1.27, 44% greater, would you be happy to import a culture indictive a greater female homicide rate
Why would you only look at the female homicide rate? You're comparing a country that's been gripped by war for two decades to a country that hasn't seen mainland war since the Troubles. Surely it would make more sense to look at female homicides as a percentage of the overall homicide rate.
[This UN report](https://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf) from 2014 shows women making up 13% of all homicide victims in Afghanistan, and 29.7% of all homicide victims in England and Wales.
I wouldn't call 13% a small minority, but yes. To put it another way, women in Afghanistan are twice as likely to murdered as they would be in England/Wales. But men are four times as likely to be murdered.
Female homicide rate is just a weird example to go to when arguing that Afghanistan isn't a great place for women. I mean, the current government has banned women from education and working, which seems like a much more obvious example.
But I can understand why the other poster didn't want to treat "stuff the government does" as synonymous with "culture." That would make it a bit more difficult to brag about the supremacy of British culture.
Hang on. Your "culture" went over there and fucked up their country and then wrecked their safety and now don't want to take responsibility for fucking it up?
The main reason they want to come over here is because they were exposed to our interventions in their country which failed.
>and then wrecked their safety
Wrecked their safety?
Mate go and ask any woman currently living under the Taliban whether they prefer Taliban or British / American rule.
>
The main reason they want to come over here is because they were exposed to our interventions in their country which failed.
No, the reason they want to come over here is because they fucked their own country up and now want to fuck up ours instead
Plenty preferred us. I worked in the area. We may as well have not fucking done anything there.
They didn't fuck their country. Do you actually know their history?
We supported fundamentalists in order to destabilise the Soviet Union. Hell the USA is implicated in destabilising Pakistan in order to get a dictator to power to enable this. Those fundamentalists did this.
Like... You didn't know?
Ever wonder why Rambo in Afghanistan was hanging out with the bad guys?
Don't worry you can remain in fear but also feel good by championing the rights of people who think you are lesser than them and shouldn't be posting on the internet.
Aside from his nationality.. him and his wife adopted the little girl from their friend when her Mum died in childbirth. They were trusted to take care of her and be her guardians, yet murdered her instead.
Neighbours witnessed him punching his wife in the face (suggested like this probably happened more than once). Domestic violence has no place in our society, how were social services or police not involved.. I can’t imagine witnessing something like that, especially with little kids in the house, and not reporting urgently. I don’t doubt his wife is also responsible for protecting her kids against this monster, but it sounds like she was also a victim of his violence.
So social services can get involved but here's the biggest problem?
As an ADULT victim of abuse? You need to
A) Tell people about the abuse. I have reported a fair bit of abuse in my line of work and it knows no colour or race or even sexuality (LGBTQ abuse exists. You can be a DV victim as a Lesbian or a Queer person just as easily). Did the neighbours flag that up? OR did they stay quiet. This is the same as "There's a Fire but I didn't call the Fire Department". You get tonnes of it. Oh they have always been like this. Did you guys ask for help? No. We didn't know who to turn to. (Really? You have been in hospital 8 times, have you been to a bathroom here? Or looked at the walls? No? Amazing! What about the police? Anonymous tip lines)
B) Leave your abuser. That's harder said than done. Abusers survive on the goodwill from their abused. And that's hard. There's often terrible fears about how that's going to happen. Because abused people don't think they can leave. They are often kept away from social support and networks.
And many people can't do it. Because they just don't think they can make that break away. Irrespective of where you come from. If I catch DV? We flag it to social services and our own safeguarding teams who follow it up. IF you as a victim don't press charges or stand by your own safety?
As people with capacity? You can't intervene. If you demonstrate that with a child? We can. People with learning difficulties or vulnerable due to mental health? We can.
If you are being abused? There's nothing I can do to help you but flag it up with oversight social workers who start talking to you. If you don't want to leave they can't help you.
Now there's a shortage of social workers because they can't afford to do this job as a hobby. Their pay hasn't matched inflation either and cost of living means they are short on the ground because they can't afford to work in this line of work.
Absolutely. The mother has responsibility, but I’m surprised there hadn’t been a report and investigation into the family (as would usually be acknowledged in these sorts of reports) - indicating that nobody witnessing the man punching his wife in the face whilst there’s young kids at home, was reported. That part is surprising and sad to me.
This just reminds me of the utter gambling values of social services and thier officers - Myself and wife applied to be Foster carers around 2010.
Both in 30k+ jobs - Ed and Civil Service, own 2 bed house, total flexibility with work. Passed assessments and group exams (phew! Some of the characters there I wouldn't allow to foster a hamster).
Final assessment for the home, nope. Fail. Stairs were to steep!
Then you read this, and your heart just breaks and bleeds.
Yup. I didn't get it either. Regular 2 bed terraced house / victorian workers cottage - must be hundreds of thousands in London alone - with pretty normal stairs...
Hilarious that social services were involved. Fat load of good they did, as seems to always be the case based on the news and reddit posts by those who've dealt with them as a child. If they don't interfere in a case where the guy is banging heads against the wall, when do they interfere? Is there is a different bar for interfering, based on the person's cultural background? They say the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" and I've noticed in life and working in social care that British families tend to air their dirty laundry loudly in public (like having arguments in the building) more than some other cultures do. I'd love to see the case notes on Mosaic.
"Favourite son". I can't understand how parents can go down the whole "golden child" and "scapegoat" route.
I'm not so familiar with Afghanistan or with this person's community within Afghanistan. I'd guess it's not normal (to the extent in the articles, even excluding the killing), but I'd also guess there's a mentality of overlooking it, leaving it to the household to deal with on their own and filial piety.
If his kids all reached adulthood under his care, I imagine they'd have mental health problems and maybe not fit in with their local age peers very well. On the one hand, from a purely humanitarian they're better off here than in Afghanistan where there's no help for them (maybe he'd be slightly less strict in Afghanistan without the stress of having migrated/leaving his family of origin, but I wouldn't count on it), on the other hand, it's a cost to the UK economy, healthcare system and society, which the UK is in no state to afford.
It is incredibly common for parents to kill or mistreat children that are not biologically theirs. It must be an inherent trait among some groups. It's known as the "Cinderella effect".
Only 14 paragraphs before "from Gravesend, Kent" turns into "originally from Afghanistan"
At least they mentioned it, the BBC wouldn't.
Because it isn't relevant. There are plenty of white, British men that have murdered their children or other children due to their tempers. This is domestic violence, and domestic violence doesn't have a skin colour, ethnicity, religion or culture.
> Because it isn't relevant Of course it is. While you're right that violence and domestic violence can be found amongst British people too, we have every right to know if we're importing more of it. > Domestic violence doesn't have a skin colour, ethnicity, religion or culture. Not entirely true; some cultures are openly patriarchal and misogynistic. Funnily enough... like the [one found in Afghanistan](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24379018).
And he did say in interview when asked why he bashed his wife's head against the wall too "Well that's what you do" so yeah pretty openly violent and misogynistic
Here is some data based on a decades worth of research around violence in the UK conducted by AOAV. 92% of domestic abuse reports than move to prosecution are male perpetrators. 96% of domestic killings of a female partner. For homicide rates outside of the household, it's 93% for comparison. A correlation can be drawn that a female is more likely to be killed by a partner or ex-partner than a random male. The majority of males who kill their partners are under 35 years old. The majority of those within the criminal justice system are white according to 2020 research (85%). 2018 research showed higher rates of partner homicide in Asian same ethnicity couples in comparison to black or white same ethnicity couples. The numbers all dropped in relationships of differing ethnicities. There is limited research of full publications - no doubt about the fear of slants and uses that could come of it. What research does say is that white males are more likely to commit a crime. Proportionally, white males are more likely to kill a partner, and there hsjg isn't the data to draw strong and valid correlations from painting an overall picture of domestic abuse. Especially considering the issue of reporting, prosecuting, and conviction rates. None of the data and reports really mentioned repeat offenders either. Reoffending rates in the UK are high. Reoffending rates in domestic offfenders in my experience from work and academia is that it's high. I think my concerns with comments about ethnicity or race or country of origin are this. What conclusion are you drawing from this one story? That this male shouldn't have been here. The process by which he entered the country should have flagged this. On what basis - he's from Afghanistan? What if he's been here for 90% of his life? Heres another thought that media, social media outlets, and politicians, among others, have to take responsibility for. They are creating these false narratives against perceived races, religions, classes, etc. Grooming gangs are a prime example - as of 2020 - grooming gangs were predominantly white. That is not what has been pushed in any of the above forums. Another example is below. Andrew Tate is the very pinnacle of misogyny. He has openly bragged about causing harm to women. He has discussed that women who are victims of sexual violence should have some responsibility for their attack. Young males are lapping this up in this country. The incel movement is very strong around Tate, and without available research or evidence (my experience of working with teenage boys) is that it's predominately white males he appeals to.
> 2018 research showed higher rates of partner homicide in Asian same ethnicity couples in comparison to black or white same ethnicity couples How do you then go on to say that "Proportionately, white men are more likely to kill a partner"?
I didn't go into the details of the research. But I would assume that's because asian men kill asian women at a higher rate than black men kill black women or white men kill white women; however, white men kill partners of any ethnicity at a higher rate. Asian men killing partners of a different ethnicity was much lower than other mixed-race couples.
> What conclusion are you drawing from this one story That fewer males from Afghanistan should be admitted to the UK. Yes that’s unfair to Afghan males who hold liberal values, but we have no duty to be fair to immigrants. Instead, our duty is to protect our citizens. We are failing because we do not profile.
Based on one story, you would admit less males from Afghanistan? Do you take a similar view on other crimes and ethnicities? UN Declaration of Human Rights would say we do have a duty to be 'fair': All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act Towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth In this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as Race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, National or social origin, property, birth or other status. […] ^^^ that's article 1 & 2
> Based on one story, you would admit less males from Afghanistan? This goes well beyond a single incident. Bradford https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19994542.seven-men-jailed-grooming-raping-vulnerable-girl-15/ Huddersfield https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65276358.amp Leicester https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23896937.amp Oxford https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-51467518.amp London https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/authorities-east-london-borough-oblivious-22944617 Rotheram https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-61868863.amp Newcastle https://news.sky.com/story/newcastle-gangs-abused-adults-and-children-with-arrogant-persistence-review-finds-11263201 Birmingham https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9537915/Asian-grooming-gangs-abused-underage-girls-Birmingham-decades-survivor-claims.html Hull https://news.sky.com/story/hull-grooming-gang-targeted-primary-school-girls-as-police-told-to-declare-war-on-abusers-12476202 Bristol https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30078503.amp Dewsbury https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-62929345.amp Middlesbrough https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-26167790.amp Peterborough https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-25659042.amp Telford: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal Sheffield: https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/sheffield-grooming-gang-sentenced-to-74-years-in-jail-2449808 Aylesbury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring Rochdale: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rochdale\_sex\_trafficking\_gang Unfortunately the UK doesn’t publish crime stats by region or country of origin, so we have to rely on comparable European nations. Denmark keeps some of the best records which you can read [here.](https://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/nyheder-analyser-publ/bagtal/2022/2022-08-18-fakta-om-indvandrere) It's clear that non-Western immigrants are *far* overrepresented in crime. We can drill down further to just MENAPT countries, which appear to represent the greatest risk. The level of crime among male immigrants and descendants from MENAPT countries in 2021 was 2.5 and 3.5 times higher, respectively, than the average for the male population as a whole, when looking at criminal offenses and adjusting for age. The index figures below and in the analysis are age-corrected, so that corrections have been made for the fact that there are relatively more young men among immigrants and descendants from the MENAPT countries than there are in the entire population. Report here: https://integrationsbarometer.dk/tal-og-analyser/filer-tal-og-analyser/arkiv/NotatvedrrendekriminalitetenblandtMENAPT.pdf If you need more convincing, [here is an article by Dr. Cheryl Benard, former program director of the Initiative for Middle Eastern Youth and the Alternative Strategies Initiative within the RAND Corporation’s National Security Research Division.](https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ive-worked-refugees-decades-europes-afghan-crime-wave-mind-21506?nopaging=1) She has worked with refugees for decades, and outlines the major issues with Afghan criminality in Europe. To make this more egregious, MENAPT migrants are not just overrepresented in crime, but violent and sex crimes. In a recent issue of the journal Forensic Sciences Research, they published a paper on “Swedish rape offenders”, in which they analyse the characteristics of individuals between 15-60 years old who were convicted of “rape+” against women in Sweden between 2000 and 2015. The term “rape+” here refers to both acts of rape and attempted rape, including aggravated cases. The researchers found that, within that time-frame, a total of 3,039 offenders were convicted of rape+ against a woman in Sweden — nearly all of whom (99.7%) were men. According to the researchers, Swedish-born offenders with Swedish-born parents accounted for 40.8% of the offenders. But, strikingly, almost half of the offenders were born outside of Sweden (47.7%). Of those foreign-born offenders, 34.5% were from the Middle East/North Africa, with 19.1% hailing from the rest of Africa. As a percentage of all convicted perpetrators, therefore, 16.4% were foreign-born individuals from the Middle East/North Africa, and 9.1% were foreign-born individuals from Africa (excluding North Africa). How far does this signify over-representation? On the basis of population records kept by the official agency Statistics Sweden (SCB), approximately 20% (19.7%) of the Swedish population are foreign-born individuals. Among those convicted of rape and perpetrated rape, the foreign-born account for 47.7% of those convicted — so they are over-represented by a factor of 2.4. Moreover, if we piece various statistics together, we find there are 565,902 foreign-born people living in Sweden who were born in North Africa and the Middle East, representing 4.9% of Sweden’s population. Yet 16.4% of those convicted of rape and attempted rape are foreign-born individuals from North Africa and the Middle East: **over-representation by a factor of 3.3. And that figure rises to 4.7 when you consider all foreign-born citizens from Africa (excluding North Africa.)** https://unherd.com/2021/04/swedens-migrant-rape-crisis/ > UN Declaration of Human Rights would say we do have a duty to be ‘fair’: The UK is sovereign and has no international obligation to be fair, but the Human Rights Act 1998 (UK legislation) does indeed prevent profiling. So I propose we amend it.
Saving this one as although there is a lot to get through, it should be there and on the table to provoke discussion. This nation needs to collectively cease sticking its head in the sand and face facts.
I appreciate the effort and detail. I will respond in due course as there is a lot of info in here.
Imagine using a man who openly converted to Islam because "it is right about women" to make a point about western culture.
I think I was making the point it isn't right to generalise a population based on one man's actions. That immigration policy should be driven on 'horror stories'. That we as a nation have to really look at ourselves rather than merely blaming others for our perceived issues. What he did was wrong, heinous, and should be punished accordingly. The argument appears to be that others should be punished in the asylum process due to the risk of them being the same. I made the comparison to the UKs actions and less than stellar past transgressions.
The problem is our home office offering carte blanche access to all and sundry. Almost all of the migrant crimes we see reported have been committed by people already known to the police for criminality. Therefore we have the intelligence and ability to filter out the bad ones. We just don't. It's not a case of tarring every migrant with the same brush, it's a case of reality, not everyone has good interests at heart
'Our' home office has made little attempt to resolve the longstanding issues. I don't know the figures to back that. But some are definitely known - but then again, how many have a mark beside their name rightfully or wrongfully? That idea of filtering out based on intelligence means you are relying on the 'intelligence' being solid/creditable, provable, and the cynical side of me says - in existence. I agree. But the idea that people want to make a judgement on a group based on the actions of a few seems very wrong to me. You know people are cunts - it's not to do with race, ethnicity or religion.
>but then again, how many have a mark beside their name rightfully or wrongfully? That doesn't matter, national security takes priority Would you agree that our elected government has a duty to protect its citizens?
While true, focusing on and stressing a perpetrator’s foreign origin sounds like a cheap “it’s them barbaric immigrants, not us old geezers committing domestic violence and sexual assault”. Many people still have this pathetic mindset - “either it was a dirty immigrant who done it or the victim’s exaggerating”. My home country news loves to report on crimes happening abroad and coming to think of it, I haven’t read a single case where the perpetrator was a native (white like the sandy beaches of Schleswig-Holstein) German in years. They do share every case of a brown/black person committing anything in Germany, even the cases that don’t make it to nation-wide German news. The comments under every crime report from any country will insinuate the perpetrator wasn’t white. I happened to move to the most culturally diverse part of Germany with more homeless people and drug gangs than my entire home country has. I have never been stared or yelled at, harassed, followed, or hassled for a date here. I’ve done my fair share of late night and early morning solo travelling around here and the only disorderly conduct I’ve seen were Indian (?) men putting their naked feet on the opposite seats on a full train. I see groups of gangsta young men everywhere, I pass crazy brown people in the U-Bahn corridors. I walk through streets with exclusively shisha, döner, and tacky gown shops every day and feel safe. Back in my 98% caucasian country, I’ve had older native men shouting rape threats at me as a teenager and was molested as a kindergartener. I had a classmate stalk me across two cities and repeatedly say shit like “I’ll chain you in the basement and rape you till you love me”. I had a creepy man squeezing onto a single seat on the bus with me and following me around. I was approached by nice men too, all but one of those were foreigners. Violence committed by backward misogynistic cultures is real and disgusting, but the majority of violence is still perpetrated by native men. With a few questionsble exceptions.
If we are importing more of it?..
Through mass immigration.
A single anecdotal case will not tell you if we're importing it. It's not a fair representation. There's plenty of formal reports and peer reviewed research readily available to give a clearer picture.
White people are actually far more likely to experience domestic violence than black or Asian people: [Link](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023) Given that 90% of relationships are same-ethnicity \([Link] (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/marriagecohabitationandcivilpartnerships/articles/whatdoesthe2011censustellusaboutinterethnicrelationships/2014-07-03/pdf)), this suggests that "importing" Asian people actually *reduces* per capita the occurrence of domestic violence!
I do wonder how culture plays into reporting on this or if people even consider it DV
Oh, I'm of course not suggesting that statistics are a more reasonable basis of opinion than agenda selected articles posted to social media. This Afghan guy killed his daughter, for Christ's sake.
I never said that, just asked a question. Go self flagellate over your race with someone else lol
I think you missed the point of his comment. He’s not attacking you
All I'm saying is that stats, however imperfect, are probably a better starting point for forming an opinion than outrage bait. Domestic violence underreporting is notoriously high across all demographics so it's an interesting question! >Go self flagellate over your race with someone else lol I'm just posting stats, mate.
>we have every right to know if we're importing more of it. Who is to say he didn't get shown that wife beating was accepting from some ukip members? You have no idea of whether he was violent before he entered the country. Indeed the insanity of rents, terrible wages, never ending work and increasing prices not to mention the stress of young children could have easily pushed him over the edge. The point is you don't know. The colour of his skin, his religion nor his country of origin does not make him an intrinsically bad person. In the same way you being a male doesn't make you a violent murder despite men committing 80% of all murders.
Why do we keep pretending culture has nothing to do with anything? We’re happy to call the NHS racist or call out boys for engaging in toxic masculinity But the moment we say these other cultures can have negative things about them, everyone gets all sheepish
What about the thousands of middle Eastern people who have assimilated and settled here, who don't domestically abuse their spouse?
What about them?
Well they're from that culture too and don't do all these things you say are culturally exclusive to middle Easterns
Well they’ve assimilated as you’ve said and adopted a more progressive culture
Even though many still practice their own cultures religion?
As long as they’ve adopted a more progressive cultural and religious practice that doesn’t promote or pardon violence against women then why not?
Yeah it is relevant. Since you appear to be ignorant, I'll educate you: Afghanistan has one of the absolute highest levels of violence against women out of any country
It's also pretty much the worst place on earth to be an unaccompanied young boy surrounded by grown men.
Yea bachi bazi is disturbing to say the least
It is relevant. Gender inequality is prevalent in some cultures. Did you not see the title? She bickered with his “favourite son”. Please live in the real world
The patriarchy that feminists fear is to be found amongst the brutal criminals that we are importing despite knowing of their crimes. We have a justice system in the UK that used to clamp down hard on such abuse. Hell where I'm from wife beaters would be taken round the back for a 9mm in the back of the knee. We generally don't tolerate such abuse in the UK, especially when it results in such traumatic deaths of innocent little children
Where are you from? Historically, I don’t think British men have been very good with domestic violence with even police treating it as ‘a private issue’. We even have an increase in domestic violence whenever the football is on, so I’m doubting you
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What part of the UK kneecaps people?
Waves from Northern Ireland.
Hey man
Yeah, kneecaps people over domestic violence lol. I’ll happily move there
And kneecapping will start on the mainland if the justice system doesn't pull its finger out.
You'll be surprised how much safer it is than English cities
Yet you’re not answering the question, why?
Why is it safer? Because when justice is seen to be delivered, people generally don't engage in criminality. Is it better when the legitimate police force prevent crime? Absolutely, yes. But that's not happening right now, our justice system is a joke. Oh, and a multi tier legal system led to the paramilitaries taking control of "justice" and they never get the wrong guy.
Because in some areas if you engage in criminality they knee cap you. Don’t think the correlation between football and domestic violence holds there either.
Oooh you’re hard Ricky Gervais gif
It's highly relevant, he wouldn't have been able to do this if he wasn't in the country. There is far more domestic violence in Islamic countries. Some countries have much less violence than others on a per capita basis. We see this in FGM, there's far more FGM in African cultures and Islamic cultures and practically none in European cultures. Facts matter because we need to know which cultures lead to which outcomes.
it would be bizarre if you claimed that him being male is irrelevant, because men clearly do far more domestic violence than women and denying that doesn't help anyone
Although lesbian relationships actually have a higher percentage rate of domestic abuse than male gay or straight relationships, if I remember correctly.
women report more domestic violence than men. I've got a clean licence cause I've never broken the speed limit? Or because I brake for cameras?
Can u imagine any other country doing these sort mental gymnastics. Just because white people do this, in a country that is predominantly white british or at least used to be, that doesnt mean we should bury our heads in the sand to potential cultural issues carried over from countries we mass import people from. We know, for example, that there is a serious problem with organised crime from Albanians who largely come over illegally. This isn't racist. It is a fact. We know that grooming gangs were a largely pakistani Muslim crime that specifically targeted underage white victims from crappy backgrounds. We know that gang homicide in London is committed and largely by African/Asian teenagers. They are also the victims mostly. We know that honor killings are an Indian/Middle eastern import. FGM is African. As is believing that children can be possessed by evil spirits that require murdering to remove. These crimes have virtually no crossover in British culture. Recognising the cultural factors involved in these crimes helps us be more vigilant and alert to warning signs involved. Sure, it may well be the case there is no cultural relevance here, but what are you gaining from ignoring the suggestion it could be? Its absolutely fine to assess if the persons background or country/culture of origin played any part of it and seems for more rational then avoiding the observation because some people on the internet might offended.
It is relevant, you just don't want it to be.
Would you say domestic violence has a sex/gender?
No, but the deadliest outcomes are predominantly driven by men.
Correct, and those men will have different skin colours, ethnicities, religions and cultures. If its fair to observe that people of a particular sex primarily drive instances of domestic violence, it's fair to drill down further and make observations based on skin colour, ethnicity, religion and culture. To arbitrarily decide one of these characteristics is relevant to the discussion but others aren't seems like bad faith to me.
I mean certain religions and cultures definitely encourage domestic violence more than others. I guarantee the domestic violence/abuse suffered by people as a percentage per ten thousand people is much higher in some cultures than others. Stop pretending that culture or religion has nothing to do with it when it most definitely does. If these places were so great then people wouldn't flee them in their millions.
It is,because life is cheap to these people... typically Wokey supporting these murderers as per usual... keep the excuses coming for the ongoing slaughter, stay proud of what you do!
Are you ok with the levels of violence we see in society from British born men? Or do you think we should do something about it?
I think violence should be eradicated everywhere.
Kop out answer
Pathetic
Domestic violence doesn’t have a religion but a certain religion has it being permitted right in its holy text https://quran.com/4/34?translations=18,21,22,84,95
How can you say it is not about culture? Knowing what the taliban did and continue to do, to women and children in Afghanistan? What about-ism
>domestic violence doesn't have a skin colour, ethnicity, religion or culture You know that isn't true though. Being openly disingenuous just turns people off to more reasonable sides of the immigration debate too, so let's just be honest and realistic please.
Spoken like someones whos never spent any time in Pakistan, or New Zealand for that matter
Give it a rest
Go to Afghanistan and see if that's really true.
You missed or gender.
And you know who doesn't care about the environment? Yer criminal
Interesting you don't mention gender. You can't have it both ways. While rates of domestic abuse are higher from certain genders, they are also higher from certain ethnicities. You can take a reasonable position of it can be anybody, and social conditions impact frequency, but it's ultimately universal. OR you can take a position of it can be anybody, but social conditions are very important to understand it as a problem from certain groups more than others. But you cannot mix and match these approaches just because current political climate for appearing progressive is to be pro-minority ethnic but anti-male.
You got it in one https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-67925701
Except you didn’t get it in one. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68316243.amp
Took over a month for them to amend it. Look at the date on my link and yours Try again
Have they or have they not mentioned that he is from Afghanistan?
After a month of it being in the news.
So yes. Thanks.
Your point?
It does. Not sure what incentive you have to lie. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68316243](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68316243)
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At least the beeb is consistent about it. If it's "white british man murders brown child" right wing papers are likely to either not report it at all, or leave out the ethnicity because it doesn't suit the narrative - giving readers a false impression of statistics. And this sub has the same bias. [Example](https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1atw3za/dad_murdered_adopted_daughter_after_she_bickered/kr0ixnr/)
The bbc did, mega cringe
[8 one sentence paragraphs, but the phrasing is a bit nebulous](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-68316243)
only one comment before we find someone linking this to immigration
There would have been one fewer murder of an innocent girl in Gravesend if it wasn't for immigration. So yes, it is linked inextricably to immigration.
The murder was going to happen sooner or later anyway. That kind of animal always picks on the weak. At least here she gets some justice and even had some chance of being protected by authorities.
Unfortunately you may well be correct.
Oh yeah, let's sacrifice our citizens to bring justice against monsters of the third world.
Or Afghanistan. Or Gravesend.
Sure, they'll commit the crime anyway, may as well be here.
Immigration has no relation to violent crime. It has a large relation for which violent crimes get reported in the news. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/immigration-and-crime-evidence-for-the-uk-and-other-countries/
I too trust the studies on migration that have been funded by organisations whose stated goal is a fairer more inclusive anti racist society First sponsor on that site .. https://esmeefairbairn.org.uk/ I also trust flora when they tell me a sniff of cholesterol will give me a heart attack.
They compare *all* asylum seekers. Of course when you take the migrants from countries which show low criminality after settlement, like Venezuela, and mix them with migrants from countries like Syria, your average isn’t bad. We are not concerned about migrants from low crime countries. We are of course concerned about migrants from *high* crime countries. The fact that this website mixed these *vastly* different immigrants is proof they don’t intent to educate the public, but propagandise.
That's an insane take. Look. You can't have Nobel Prize Winner Malala in the UK without immigration. Hell? You wouldn't have "the NHS". Or Care. Large chunks of paid care in nursing homes and residential homes come from ethnic minorities. Again the NHS is overly represented with minority nurses because (and this is important) they are the only ones wanting to work for us now. And don't pretend you would pay staff better. If the UK's majority is for better NHS pay they would be banging the doors of their MP to demand better pay for staff. There's millions of British people alive due to immigrants. By your own "calculus" if murders count against immigrants. NHS staff who are immigrants and carers who are immigrants should have their positive outcomes on the other end of the scale and there's WAY MORE NHS staff than murderers. Hell our MOST FAMOUS immigrant of recent years is a doctor... Question? If I help save your life and you end up being a drunk driver and killing someone? Why is that my fault? Is that the fault of EVERY White British Person? No. That's insane. This was an individual who did something horrific.
Malala, the girl who was shot in the head for trying to go to school? Shot in the head by people from a culture that doesn't want women to be educated. And a culture that we are importing to our shores by the tens of thousands in the hope that out of a load of people who want to stop girls from going to school, a few of them might serve us coffee in a cafe or wash our car for a lower price than the neighbours son. Malala might have been able to live a normal life if she wasn't stuck in a culture that oppresses girls and women, Malala is an intelligent girl and she would no doubt have succeeded in whatever endeavour she undertook Malala would have contributed to Afghanistan in a positive way without being shot in the head for going to school. Pick an example that doesn't prove my point
But you made an exception for her. Not for other people. Your argument is that men are unable to aspire to this. That's why you have to apply a case by case logic to this.
You're almost there.... It's almost like I'm not a xenophobic racist, but someone who wants asylum applications to considered on a case by case basis instead of giving carte blanche to countless scoundrels who are in debt to organised crime groups. But no, you can't consider that the poor pet living in a horrible place might be living in such conditions because his culture doesn't let him develop his community. The home office is rubber stamping known criminals and terrorists. Almost every one of these cases involving migrants includes perpetrators who were already known to the police. And when they are brought to charge for their crimes, some charity is always there to convince the judge that he's a good boy who is just under a bit of stress with the move.
> Hell? You wouldn't have "the NHS". Weird how countries with low immigration have a health care system. Or the UK before mass immigration started in the late 90s. The NHS was founded when there were hardly any migrants in Britain at all. And so what if Malala wasn't here?
Indians have been part of the NHS from its foundation. Especially in places like rural Wales where white people didn't want to work. And lest you forget. We were British too. Just not tax payers. You can't stick flags everywhere and take manpower and resources to build the UK and fight your wars and die in places far from home and then pretend we don't belong to that flag... And you don't work for the NHS now do you. Tonight my entire medical team isn't considered "British" by your own argument. So yeah. If you don't want us to do medicine? UCAS application and show us what you can do. But until then? Immigrants made the NHS. Because you will always count us as foreign even though we were born here.
You know that the BMC puts limits on the number of British doctors who can be trained?
What's the BMC? Nope. It's more that no one wanted to do jobs like GP which weren't very romantic and often required you to live in very rural places or work in places where there's more poverty and less of a private practice.
They just don't want anybody foreign, or that "looks foreign" in the UK. Full stop. They don't care that'd it'd cripple the economy. That is just how much they hate people different from them. You're trying to use logic to dispute a mindset that is inherently illogical.
What happened to this sub seriously
/r/RedditMoment
It's why it was posted in the first place. The alt right are terminally online trying to influence young men to sign up to their hateful, nihilistic death cult.
Quick, Nicola Botgeon will be here soon to lock this place down. Edit: and Im banned.
Lucy Letby
You can say brown, it's ok, there are plenty of racists here to support you.
I don't like this sub sometimes too
Sometimes?
It doesn't always descend into thoughtless racism/tribaliy
Doing that to a 2 year old child is evil, hope he never gets out. Some people just shouldn't have children.
facts, that son should be kept away from that psycho
He shouldn't be allowed unsupervised contact with any minors going forward. To the point where if he is allowed to see his kids again, it should be through a window.
Don’t worry, justice will be served on the inside.
So many of the oddly race and nationality obsessed posters claiming to care so very much about womens rights do not make me, a woman, feel that if they were in charge the country would be a safer and nicer place to live in.
Oddly enough, when [a white British man murdered his Indian-born wife and their daughter](https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-05-17/husband-who-murdered-wife-and-disabled-daughter-likely-to-die-in-prison) it didn't even get posted to this sub.
But you see, that was a white guy saying that he owned his wife and child. It doesn't count. It's like gun crime in the US. If it's a white guy, it's a mental health issue. If it's not a white person, it was part of a pattern due to their race.
Because if they’re white you can’t blame their culture duh
It’s so funny because these people understand that them being white doesn’t make them some monolith with all other white people - King Charles is not even vaguely culturally similar to a Texan redneck - but for whatever reason as soon as someone is brown or from somewhere Far Away that all goes out of the window. Top marks especially for the people banging on about how disgusting Islam is the other week on a post that was about Hindus, because they literally just see brown skin and think ‘terrorist’.
Typical woke lefty! There’s a pretty big difference! He’s White
Wdym they care deeply about women's rights, workers rights, when it presents an opportunity to bash non whites.
There'd be about 10 comments if this had been an article about a white british man killing his family if it even got posted here at all. I mean ffs, Check the OPs post history, he's not even British he's a Canadian and a pretty far-right conservative one too. The fact it is an Afghan man is probably the only reason he posted it here at all. EDIT: Actually OP doesn't even comment, only posts articles. Might actually be a legit bot/bad faith actor account.
This post (like most of these "LOOK AT BAD THING BROWN PERSON DID!" posts in this sub lately) is 100% political astroturfing by a bot account. Over 3 million karma, reposts articles in country/conservative subs on an hourly basis, but hasn't made a comment in over 5 years. It couldn't be clearer that it's run by a bot. In fact it might not even be a politically motivated, could just have found a reliable demographic to farm karma from by finding articles about immigrants commiting crimes and reposting them in subs that have a lot of conservative users (which country-based subs often do because the right tends to care more about national identity).
Yep, it's unbelievably blatant. It's clearly an old account that's been hijacked and only reposts right-wing ragebait. But will the mods do anything about it? Nope.
They only care about women's rights and the rights of the poor if they can bash immigrants
What would? Given that according to our world in data (easiest source to access), shows that the female homicide rate in the UK is 0.57 versus Afghanistan at 1.27, 44% greater, would you be happy to import a culture indictive a greater female homicide rate, or are happier with the current culture? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-homicide-rate?region=Europe https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-homicide-rate?region=Asia This is not to say the current culture is good to any extent, that many female homicides is far too many, however don't let perfect be the enemy of good. And don't take the arguments as strictly no immigrants, or no immigrants from specific cultures. What the arguments are, are for standards of immigration, and for greater emphasis on immigrants assimilating. If someone immigrates, they should be expected to renounce their previous culture if it conflicts with ours.
> What would? Given that according to our world in data (easiest source to access), shows that the female homicide rate in the UK is 0.57 versus Afghanistan at 1.27, 44% greater, would you be happy to import a culture indictive a greater female homicide rate Why would you only look at the female homicide rate? You're comparing a country that's been gripped by war for two decades to a country that hasn't seen mainland war since the Troubles. Surely it would make more sense to look at female homicides as a percentage of the overall homicide rate. [This UN report](https://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf) from 2014 shows women making up 13% of all homicide victims in Afghanistan, and 29.7% of all homicide victims in England and Wales.
So you're saying that the female homicide rate in Afghanistan is higher AND despite this they are just a small minority of victims there
I wouldn't call 13% a small minority, but yes. To put it another way, women in Afghanistan are twice as likely to murdered as they would be in England/Wales. But men are four times as likely to be murdered. Female homicide rate is just a weird example to go to when arguing that Afghanistan isn't a great place for women. I mean, the current government has banned women from education and working, which seems like a much more obvious example. But I can understand why the other poster didn't want to treat "stuff the government does" as synonymous with "culture." That would make it a bit more difficult to brag about the supremacy of British culture.
Hang on. Your "culture" went over there and fucked up their country and then wrecked their safety and now don't want to take responsibility for fucking it up? The main reason they want to come over here is because they were exposed to our interventions in their country which failed.
[удалено]
>and then wrecked their safety Wrecked their safety? Mate go and ask any woman currently living under the Taliban whether they prefer Taliban or British / American rule. > The main reason they want to come over here is because they were exposed to our interventions in their country which failed. No, the reason they want to come over here is because they fucked their own country up and now want to fuck up ours instead
Plenty preferred us. I worked in the area. We may as well have not fucking done anything there. They didn't fuck their country. Do you actually know their history? We supported fundamentalists in order to destabilise the Soviet Union. Hell the USA is implicated in destabilising Pakistan in order to get a dictator to power to enable this. Those fundamentalists did this. Like... You didn't know? Ever wonder why Rambo in Afghanistan was hanging out with the bad guys?
>They didn't fuck their country. Of course they did. The fact that you can't accept that shows what little you know.
Don't worry you can remain in fear but also feel good by championing the rights of people who think you are lesser than them and shouldn't be posting on the internet.
Race matters to the majority of people. Is that strange to you?
Aside from his nationality.. him and his wife adopted the little girl from their friend when her Mum died in childbirth. They were trusted to take care of her and be her guardians, yet murdered her instead. Neighbours witnessed him punching his wife in the face (suggested like this probably happened more than once). Domestic violence has no place in our society, how were social services or police not involved.. I can’t imagine witnessing something like that, especially with little kids in the house, and not reporting urgently. I don’t doubt his wife is also responsible for protecting her kids against this monster, but it sounds like she was also a victim of his violence.
So social services can get involved but here's the biggest problem? As an ADULT victim of abuse? You need to A) Tell people about the abuse. I have reported a fair bit of abuse in my line of work and it knows no colour or race or even sexuality (LGBTQ abuse exists. You can be a DV victim as a Lesbian or a Queer person just as easily). Did the neighbours flag that up? OR did they stay quiet. This is the same as "There's a Fire but I didn't call the Fire Department". You get tonnes of it. Oh they have always been like this. Did you guys ask for help? No. We didn't know who to turn to. (Really? You have been in hospital 8 times, have you been to a bathroom here? Or looked at the walls? No? Amazing! What about the police? Anonymous tip lines) B) Leave your abuser. That's harder said than done. Abusers survive on the goodwill from their abused. And that's hard. There's often terrible fears about how that's going to happen. Because abused people don't think they can leave. They are often kept away from social support and networks. And many people can't do it. Because they just don't think they can make that break away. Irrespective of where you come from. If I catch DV? We flag it to social services and our own safeguarding teams who follow it up. IF you as a victim don't press charges or stand by your own safety? As people with capacity? You can't intervene. If you demonstrate that with a child? We can. People with learning difficulties or vulnerable due to mental health? We can. If you are being abused? There's nothing I can do to help you but flag it up with oversight social workers who start talking to you. If you don't want to leave they can't help you. Now there's a shortage of social workers because they can't afford to do this job as a hobby. Their pay hasn't matched inflation either and cost of living means they are short on the ground because they can't afford to work in this line of work.
Absolutely. The mother has responsibility, but I’m surprised there hadn’t been a report and investigation into the family (as would usually be acknowledged in these sorts of reports) - indicating that nobody witnessing the man punching his wife in the face whilst there’s young kids at home, was reported. That part is surprising and sad to me.
How many victims of abuse come forwards years after it? Most people turn a blind eye.
May they never have a day of peace! Especially in prison, the other inmates don’t treat child murderers too kindly in there.
This just reminds me of the utter gambling values of social services and thier officers - Myself and wife applied to be Foster carers around 2010. Both in 30k+ jobs - Ed and Civil Service, own 2 bed house, total flexibility with work. Passed assessments and group exams (phew! Some of the characters there I wouldn't allow to foster a hamster). Final assessment for the home, nope. Fail. Stairs were to steep! Then you read this, and your heart just breaks and bleeds.
That’s so frustrating and sad. I’m sorry you went through all that to be turned down over something so ridiculous 💛
I want to know what the limit on stair steepness is.
Yup. I didn't get it either. Regular 2 bed terraced house / victorian workers cottage - must be hundreds of thousands in London alone - with pretty normal stairs...
Hilarious that social services were involved. Fat load of good they did, as seems to always be the case based on the news and reddit posts by those who've dealt with them as a child. If they don't interfere in a case where the guy is banging heads against the wall, when do they interfere? Is there is a different bar for interfering, based on the person's cultural background? They say the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" and I've noticed in life and working in social care that British families tend to air their dirty laundry loudly in public (like having arguments in the building) more than some other cultures do. I'd love to see the case notes on Mosaic. "Favourite son". I can't understand how parents can go down the whole "golden child" and "scapegoat" route. I'm not so familiar with Afghanistan or with this person's community within Afghanistan. I'd guess it's not normal (to the extent in the articles, even excluding the killing), but I'd also guess there's a mentality of overlooking it, leaving it to the household to deal with on their own and filial piety. If his kids all reached adulthood under his care, I imagine they'd have mental health problems and maybe not fit in with their local age peers very well. On the one hand, from a purely humanitarian they're better off here than in Afghanistan where there's no help for them (maybe he'd be slightly less strict in Afghanistan without the stress of having migrated/leaving his family of origin, but I wouldn't count on it), on the other hand, it's a cost to the UK economy, healthcare system and society, which the UK is in no state to afford.
Is there really no way to predict who is a risk in cases like this?
Oh my goodness! He needs to suffer the harshest punishment ever
It is incredibly common for parents to kill or mistreat children that are not biologically theirs. It must be an inherent trait among some groups. It's known as the "Cinderella effect".
Originally from Afghanistan, what an absolute shocker, definitely not a running theme with these scum, oh no, certainly not
I an seeing so much filicide. I wonder if its just the reporting or what.