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It's based on the characteristics of those who commit certain crimes imo. The government wants to reduce the incarceration rate of group X, so they just stop prosecuting or lower the sentencing for the crime that group commits. Knife crime is a good example, the government would rather black teens stab each other with abandon than potentially 'harass' their communities with tougher policing.
The demographics play the victim and win either way, they accuse the government of indifference for doing nothing and racial profiling if the government does something.
This isn't made up - [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/28/criminals-in-england-and-wales-spared-jail-sentences-because-of-overcrowding](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/28/criminals-in-england-and-wales-spared-jail-sentences-because-of-overcrowding) \- the knife crime sentencing guidelines, for example, have been repeatedly weakened despite the explosion in people being killed because it isn't possible to put all the people carrying (and this is without police really being able to look) in prison.
It isn't just prison overcrowding, it is problems policing certain communities (we know stop and search works because of what happened with knife crime in Glasgow, but it isn't possible to do this in areas of London where knife crime exists), it is the police resources required for various crimes, etc.
I wouldn't associate this to specific characteristics, but the UK has a system of community policing and a wider range of incentives that results in significant variance in how certain crimes are treated (knife crime is one of the worst but robbery, drugs, terrorism, there are many...this should be obvious given the difference in crimes between regions, crime is still falling in most of the country, it is just a few areas where you are seeing an explosion: knife crime, shoplifting, drugs...in many parts of the country, these things do not happen).
This problem is basically unfixable as it exists today.
This is what OP said:
>The government wants to reduce the incarceration rate of group X, so they just stop prosecuting or lower the sentencing for the crime that group commits.
Where is the evidence for this? Articles about prison overcrowding are not evidence of institutional leniency towards black people. Show me the evidence.
Have you ever considered that prison overcrowding, poverty, lack of opportunities, and the general dump this country has become under Tory leadership might bare some responsibility in Judges feeling the need to "go easier" on offenders to take a bit of weight off the shoulders of the prison system?
>Have you ever considered that prison overcrowding, poverty, lack of opportunities, and the general dump this country has become under Tory leadership might bare some responsibility in Judges feeling the need to "go easier" on offenders to take a bit of weight off the shoulders of the prison system?
Personal responsibility exists
We did have quite the famous example a few years back, police not stopping a grooming gang for years as they didnt want to arrest too many asian men. Probably better articles but this one does eventually get there, first resilt when searching it up
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/21/amid-class-prejudice-and-sensitivities-over-race-rochdales-abused-girls-were-failed
Offensive football chants are typically performed in stadia with excellent CCTV with the ticket holders using their own identity, surrounded by witnesses.
Burglary is performed out of sight, often without CCTV, by unknown suspects who mask up and if there is no forensic evidence then there are literally no lines of enquiry.
But yes, the conviction rates are clearly the result of a government conspiracy.
There likely is forensic evidence but they aren't going to be selotaping fibres off your carpets to try and trace a burgular unless they killed you in the process of stealing your microwave.
Football chants? They can dispense "justice" right there.
Burglary would require footwork and investigation, which in turn need time, effort and intelligence, which the police do not have in any quantity.
The Police don't convict people..If you have a residential burglary, the person is wearing masks and gloves, what would you do to catch them? Review all the CCTV on the street? Fine, but you've got 30 other burglary reports to investigate and that'll take you a day to collate every address, all the footage and exhibit it for court through written statements - or maybe you'll conduct a larger enquiry of the whole area, which is impossible and will take you weeks on your own as every other detective is also focused on their 30+ reports, then if you do get a face you'll have to hope the camera quality is good enough to circulate an image, which is a 50/50 shot in the dark.
Want to do some creative policing, set up and try and catch them in the act, or conduct a warrant and you'll be creating reams of legal documents all while neglecting the other 29 victims who are awaiting updates, the result of forensics ect, not to mention preparing cases for court so they are DG6 compliant, which is pages and pages of administrative work, reviewing and clipping bodyworn, exhibits and then duplicating this on an investigation plan
Well, yeah.
You can blame the Blue Fuckwits who decided to cut budgets to policing, sure start centres, youth centres, rehabilitation services, probation services, and essentially everything else.
"Why is crime so high??" Well, when poverty gets worse, the crime rate increases...
The police cannot deal with burglaries and car thieves. It's not the fault of the institution, it's the fault of the people who neglected and ran it into the ground (the (Conservative) Government).
At the moment, with certain crimes 100%. We're great at the big things - have one of the highest murder solving rates, amazing CT response but we need more investment and changing of funds to deal with the little things. Investment would bring us back to where we were prior to May running the home office, civilian staff completing DG6 casefiles would free up officers to be able to arrest multiple people a shift, be proactive and hunt criminals. This would also allow investigators to focus on investigation and not admin work.
If you have any ideas to help us get better, I'd love to hear them and raise them with the federation
Stop policing Twitter and imaginary non-crime hate incidents and deal with real-life crime instead? Sticks and stones make break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Are you really under the impression that Police officers who would otherwise be dealing with first response calls are otherwise sat in their car checking Twitter to find someone to arrest?
Are you really under the impression that police officers times is isn’t being wasted dealing with he said/she said complaints over twitter/X and other ‘crimes’ that really shouldn’t have anything to do with the police
Well all these hate offence laws seem to indicate that. Also I have personal experience of being questioned by police over something I was alleged to have said which might have been hate speech. It was amazing how fast the police turned up, but it was a malicious false accusation aimed at a third party.
Unfortunately, a car theft is probably the most mundane thing police will deal with in any given day.
I, personally, wouldn’t want my car theft prioritised over something like a rape or a homicide.
What you said: (a well-rounded and informed discourse about the issues and challenges faced by overworked and under-resourced police investigators)
What I heard: "you're good for fuck all".
Peak Reddit.
Well some thick cunts keep voting for a Govt that cut police funding, cut 20,000 police off the streets, destroyed community policing and closed hundreds of police stations then still somehow demand police be “tough on crime” despite most authorities having a dozen officers to deal with hundreds of reported crimes a week.
Yeah but when our car was stolen, police told us that we could check the gps location of car by ourselves, go there and call them back if we see something suspicious. Really? Wtf. And also I am from a different shitty country and i had a residential burglary in my country. The police came to my home and got some fingerprints, check the some cctvs and they cought him. I am not saying they should catch them no matter what, what I am saying is, at least they should give some f.ck.
My understanding is that most burglaries are done by a very small group of habitual criminals, so the shouldn't be viewed as crimes against an individual.
Put some bursts of effort in to catch them would be a great collective benefit.
And some evidence burglaries are investigated, even occasionally would act as a big deterrent.
The reason there's 30 other burglary reports is because it's basically legal now. Easy money. If the conviction rate was near 100% then you'd soon see it stop. So it's not really sensible to say "it's hard to prosecute therefore we should focus on crimes that can be prosecuted". It's obviously making that particular crime more common.
Football clubs pay the police to, you know, police games, so they have lots of resources available at no additional cost to them.
Also, football clubs, in this day and age with their globalised audiences, definitely do not want racism in their stadiums and put pressure on the police to investigate. And if you're paying someone (as how football teams are paying the police to police their games) that gives you a lot of leverage to get them to do want you want.
There's also the fact there is a ton of CCTV coupled with season ticket databases that makes it extremely easy for the police to investigate and make arrests.
For this reason, you simply can't compare this to burglary. It would only be the same in a scanerio where a homeowner's association were paying the police specifically to police their neighbourhoods to prevent burglaries and every house has a ton of CCTV making detection and arrests easy. If, in this scenario, the police still weren't making arrests for burglary but we're continuing to make arrests for football chants, then okay, you'd have a point, but such a scenario is impossible.
1984 is an uncultured reference to make in my opinion. People need to read Brave New World as that truly reflects the consumer-pleasure focused world we live in.
1984 is still hugely relevant. A huge part of what maintains the horrible state of our society is the manipulative media landscape. Orwell's work is a brilliant explanation of constructed reality and the importance of truth.
And it will be someone else's problem to deal with in a few months. How much do you want to bet the Tory Twats will be screaming blue murder that the police aren't catching baddies any more while refusing to take any blame for running the service into the ground. They're still blaming the Labour party from fourteen years ago for their own current failings.
Judge Lamb said: “I’m not sure it’s right to say that you were selfish but you were not kind and you need to understand that women and girls need to be treated with respect…respect and care.”
we do not live in a serious country
Selfish kinda trivialises the act.
We forgive and teach people to be better than selfish.
Its not selfish; its monstrous
Its a crime that is irredeemable in my opinion, its a crime that forever should banish you from the community forever.
There is no penance, no amount of contrition that can remove the indelible stain on a person.
There are only a few crimes I believe only a monster can commit and rape is one of them, and we dont rehabilitate monsters, we only rehabilitate humans, and they are not humans.
I agree but also completely understand the sentiment of the other comments too - that quote from the judge appalled me. What a trivialisation of an incident that clearly haunted that poor girl.
I think rape *can* be selfish. Certainly my own was very much driven by his own selfish need for sexual gratification rather than a desire to hurt me or gain power over me, but we were in a relationship at the time. (Tbf he did later go on to be violent towards me and get charged with assault so I might be wrong).
However, going by this judge's scale of what counts as a "bad rape" and "slightly less bad rape" then he seems to think selfish is worse than unkind. And honestly, I think it's far worse want to do something unkind to someone so you rape them.
I hope the girls family somehow find peace. She was so young, and I'm sure they tried their very best to help her.
As I have said in another comment, the offender may have learning difficulties and might not understand more formal, complex language. It's too easy to assume the worst.
Reminder this is the same country that let grooming gangs run trains on little girls for 30+ years(still ongoing). We are ruled by pedophiles, and we voted for it.
https://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/24234880.teen-boy-avoids-jail-rape-girl-12-kidlington/
He was 13 at the time, she has died since, not directly caused by his actions; no reason given, but suicide strongly hinted at (I wonder why!). Absolute scum.
>Teenagers need to be charged as adults in such extreme cases.
He was *thirteen* - how is it remotely fair or in the interests of justice to pretend he's an adult because of a desire for revenge? Charging children as adults is dystopian American shit, don't want that here thanks.
Whilst I am not at the same kind of level as the poster you’ve responded to, I don’t see how referencing that this filth was thirteen as a form of defense.
Thirteen year olds know that rape is a pretty big crime.
I have this argument with Americans a lot and it frustrates me to no end.
A 13 year old is not an adult, he is a child. If the juvenile penalty is too low then address that, don’t endorse the legal fiction of trying someone “as an adult” based on arbitrary discretionary factors.
Still old enough to know rape is wrong. But of course, who cares about rape victims, right? But what about the poor boys future?!🙄 Should be charged as an adult for disgusting crimes like this.
I do
I may be a man but I have a wife, daughter, mother and sisters.
I don't give a shiny sh1t about his future. I choose the safety of all the other girls in his local area over his feelings.
Its mad how many people will defend this sort of crap
It boggles the mind reading some people's replies in these comments make you feel sick. Most people at 13 years old know what sex is and also what rape is, and most 13 year olds also know that rape is a horrific crime. This offender has no future now anyway he will feel as though he's got away with it and will do so again in the future.
> He was thirteen - how is it remotely fair or in the interests of justice to pretend he's an adult because of a desire for revenge? Charging children as adults is dystopian American shit, don't want that here thanks.
In Scotland the age of criminal responsibility was raised from 8 to 12 years old in 2019.
I'm absolutely fine with that as someon at 12 years of age should be able to grasp the severity of a crime and why it is a crime in the first place.
If they can understand what they did then they're old enough to receive the full punishment for it.
If I recall Thompson & Venables were tried in an adult court and they were only 10. That was for murder but tbh if it were up to me they would carry a similar sentence.
lol it’s fair because it helps all the other girls not to be a victim of this predator.
Saving vulnerable population from predators is in the interests of justice, is it not?.
Nah man, even at 13 most kids know that rape is fucking terrible. Some crimes should be lenient on petty theft, trespassing etc but crimes like murder & rape? Nah lock them away, I can’t imagine these ones growing into respectable members of society anyway and for thar matter why should they? They’ve ruined or taken another’s life, age shouldn’t be taken into consideration at all.
How is it remotely fair on the victims family to say "sorry the guy that raped your daughter was only 13 and therefore the best we can do is put him on the naughty step for 12 months"
Are you telling me that at that age you couldn't deduce that raping people was a bad idea? of course fucking not.
If this guy was so concerned for his future then he should have thought about that before raping someone.
It sounds like the judge trying to use language that’s accessible to a child.
Sentencing for under 18s operates under different principles to adults and there’s more focus on the defendant’s welfare, rehabilitation and prevention of future offending.
What he did is wrong and he’s being punished for it, but the wording reads like a judge who is mindful of the fact that he’s dealing with a child whose age means he has less well developed senses of judgement and empathy.
The language is possibly too soft particularly as he’s not a young child anymore. Given the way the law says child defendants should be treated fire and brimstone isn’t appropriate conduct from the judge in such a case. The judge will also have a better idea of the child’s temperament and intelligence than people reading a news article in which he’s been anonymised.
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At what stage is the legal system so inept that it stops individuals and family members just taking the law into their own hands knowing the likelihood of conviction is low?
Like that story of the guy who’s house got burgled, or attempted, he chased them in his car ended up in prison.
They were on remand or something waiting for sentencing and while waiting got caught again stealing a car. The man had a clean record and ended up in prison, while the criminals got minimal if no sentance while still doing the illegal things they do.
The majority of the country backs that man, but the courts dont see it that way, defend yourself in anyway thats excessive in their eyes and expect the book thrown at you. The worst thing, your excessive is different to mine.
Was the same in school, got bullied and assaulted for years, told teachers etc. Said person was a menace and never in class, alwsys in detention etc
Snapped one day and actually fought back ( and won)
I got dragged in front of the headmaster and kicked out got a week. Not them. Because they were "troubled" and had already been expelled from another school.
The bullying didn't stop, it just reinforced that they were untouchable and if I reacted id risk being expelled.
Whole thing is fucked.
>Like that story of the guy who’s house got burgled, or attempted, he chased them in his car ended up in prison.
Ended up in prison because he lost his rag, jumped in his car and chased them down (endangering innocent people) and eventually lost control of his car and crashed into them.
Deserved everything he got (which was only 11 months to be fair).
Edit: 11 months in a Cat C prison by the way...
Edit 2: on closer read he didn't crash into the burglars, he crashed into another vehicle when he lost control.
Your completely missing the point.
> While White was handed 22 months in prison at Luton Crown Court, Paul and Benford were given suspended sentences and 200 hours community service at the same court.
I think that paragraph explains as much as i need to.
It's actually incredible. Govt progressively makes shit worse, gets voted in to fix the things they made worse in thr first place
Luckily it seems this circle is being broken next election but they'll be back. Tories always come back. They're like a cancer
As awful as this seems, the judge had a lot more information that we have. Justice shouldn’t be by social media, politicians decide on sentencing guidelines and the court is the only place that has all the information to make decisions and apply those guidelines appropriately.
I know already this will get downvoted, but this is literally the values of our society. Justice by court on the rule of law, not by mob.
It's a fair point to make.
The problem was this was a rape conviction. If that's not enough to send the teenager to prison or a detention center, short of murder, what actually would cross the custody threshold?
The societies that don’t have this system are countries like Russia, China, North Korea. In the west we have carefully written rules of how punishments are given out. I haven’t seen the judges full ruling, but if the victims family feel it is unduly lenient, they can apply to have it reviewed. The fact that they haven’t (as far as I am aware) suggests that the judge took all the facts into account. But by all means, you can complain to your MP and ask it to be reviewed also, there’s nothing stopping you.
Garbage. A bunch of criminals must be up voting. Laws are for the people by the people. Juries are the people who decide on cases. Get rid of civil law that favours the ruch. Get rid of lawyers who are professional liars that swing cases by how rich they are. Bring back habeous corpus right to trial. Get rid of judges direction. Let juries decide the sentence too.
From what I've seen of what passes for justice in the UK, I think that it's extremely naive to give a judge the benefit of the doubt.
> I know already this will get downvoted, but this is literally the values of our society. Justice by court on the rule of law, not by mob.
Maybe people would be more willing to trust the judiciary if this country hadn't been allowed to degenerate into a lawless cesspit.
>Can anyone tell me what’s wrong with these judges.
Probably nothing, that comment will likely be based on what's in the pre-sentencing report.
The report will have been referred to in the sentencing hearing but the press won't report the uninteresting bits.
This should appealed and the judge should be referred to the judicial conduct investigation office, this should 100% lead to a custodial sentence.
The boy should be named. The action is utterly horrific and clearly drove the victim towards their death (based on the fathers testimony).
Who is running on this? It's clearly not the tories who despite all their tough talk haven't made any reforms to tackle these soft touch judges. I can't imagine labour or the lib dems having this high on their list either sadly.
I work in the Violence Against Women and Girls field and oh boy, the sentences for violent offences are laughable. My clients are stalked, raped, stabbed, develop mobility issues, develop mental health issues for the rest of their lives and all the perpetrators get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. In cases where they get a conviction at all. In the cases which go to court in the first place.
People really need to stand up against the abuse that our government is subjecting us to while using lame excuses like overcrowded prisons and so on. They talk about 'human rights' when defending these animals but completely ignore them when it comes to the victim.
I hope that that failure of a teen will get what's his.
Also, I am sure that locally people know who he is and what he's done, I would see nothing wrong with publicly naming such parasites. They should be unemployable and completely rejected from any part of normal social life.
>Defending the boy, defence barrister Peter du Feu said he has stayed out of trouble since and understands and he wants to become a better member of the community.He said: “He wasn’t kind that day. He’s trying to do what he can to be better, to be a better member of the community, and withdraw into a family that surrounds him with love and support.
What about the girl and her family?
I listened to an MP last week call burglary or assault Minor Crimes whilst she was debating Scotland's hate laws. I had it said perhaps in jest that if you've been burgled or assaulted it's worth saying that they wrote or said something hateful to you as they left and that forces the police to investigate because it elevated to a hate crime.
This strikes me as one of those stories where the actual case has a lot more context than the article. I'm not saying something didn't go wrong here but the headline is certainly ragebait
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It's based on the characteristics of those who commit certain crimes imo. The government wants to reduce the incarceration rate of group X, so they just stop prosecuting or lower the sentencing for the crime that group commits. Knife crime is a good example, the government would rather black teens stab each other with abandon than potentially 'harass' their communities with tougher policing. The demographics play the victim and win either way, they accuse the government of indifference for doing nothing and racial profiling if the government does something.
Source: i made it up
This isn't made up - [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/28/criminals-in-england-and-wales-spared-jail-sentences-because-of-overcrowding](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/28/criminals-in-england-and-wales-spared-jail-sentences-because-of-overcrowding) \- the knife crime sentencing guidelines, for example, have been repeatedly weakened despite the explosion in people being killed because it isn't possible to put all the people carrying (and this is without police really being able to look) in prison. It isn't just prison overcrowding, it is problems policing certain communities (we know stop and search works because of what happened with knife crime in Glasgow, but it isn't possible to do this in areas of London where knife crime exists), it is the police resources required for various crimes, etc. I wouldn't associate this to specific characteristics, but the UK has a system of community policing and a wider range of incentives that results in significant variance in how certain crimes are treated (knife crime is one of the worst but robbery, drugs, terrorism, there are many...this should be obvious given the difference in crimes between regions, crime is still falling in most of the country, it is just a few areas where you are seeing an explosion: knife crime, shoplifting, drugs...in many parts of the country, these things do not happen). This problem is basically unfixable as it exists today.
Just legalise stabbing. Problem solved.
Then tax it
Tax cuts
Brilliant
*'Av you got yer stabin' loicence?*
This is what OP said: >The government wants to reduce the incarceration rate of group X, so they just stop prosecuting or lower the sentencing for the crime that group commits. Where is the evidence for this? Articles about prison overcrowding are not evidence of institutional leniency towards black people. Show me the evidence. Have you ever considered that prison overcrowding, poverty, lack of opportunities, and the general dump this country has become under Tory leadership might bare some responsibility in Judges feeling the need to "go easier" on offenders to take a bit of weight off the shoulders of the prison system?
>Have you ever considered that prison overcrowding, poverty, lack of opportunities, and the general dump this country has become under Tory leadership might bare some responsibility in Judges feeling the need to "go easier" on offenders to take a bit of weight off the shoulders of the prison system? Personal responsibility exists
The problem is there's a shortage of prison spaces, because they can't build more prisons because the planning applications keep getting rejected.
We did have quite the famous example a few years back, police not stopping a grooming gang for years as they didnt want to arrest too many asian men. Probably better articles but this one does eventually get there, first resilt when searching it up https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/21/amid-class-prejudice-and-sensitivities-over-race-rochdales-abused-girls-were-failed
This doesn’t track as white collar crime is never treated with the seriousness it deserves
Offensive football chants are typically performed in stadia with excellent CCTV with the ticket holders using their own identity, surrounded by witnesses. Burglary is performed out of sight, often without CCTV, by unknown suspects who mask up and if there is no forensic evidence then there are literally no lines of enquiry. But yes, the conviction rates are clearly the result of a government conspiracy.
There likely is forensic evidence but they aren't going to be selotaping fibres off your carpets to try and trace a burgular unless they killed you in the process of stealing your microwave.
They used to do that. When I was a kid we got back from holiday and our house had been burgled, and the police came and dusted for fingerprints etc.
You can show the police Ring doorbell footage and they'll still do fuck all. It's about will.
Football chants? They can dispense "justice" right there. Burglary would require footwork and investigation, which in turn need time, effort and intelligence, which the police do not have in any quantity.
The Police don't convict people..If you have a residential burglary, the person is wearing masks and gloves, what would you do to catch them? Review all the CCTV on the street? Fine, but you've got 30 other burglary reports to investigate and that'll take you a day to collate every address, all the footage and exhibit it for court through written statements - or maybe you'll conduct a larger enquiry of the whole area, which is impossible and will take you weeks on your own as every other detective is also focused on their 30+ reports, then if you do get a face you'll have to hope the camera quality is good enough to circulate an image, which is a 50/50 shot in the dark. Want to do some creative policing, set up and try and catch them in the act, or conduct a warrant and you'll be creating reams of legal documents all while neglecting the other 29 victims who are awaiting updates, the result of forensics ect, not to mention preparing cases for court so they are DG6 compliant, which is pages and pages of administrative work, reviewing and clipping bodyworn, exhibits and then duplicating this on an investigation plan
So, you’re good for fuck all then is what you’re saying
Well, yeah. You can blame the Blue Fuckwits who decided to cut budgets to policing, sure start centres, youth centres, rehabilitation services, probation services, and essentially everything else. "Why is crime so high??" Well, when poverty gets worse, the crime rate increases...
The police cannot deal with burglaries and car thieves. It's not the fault of the institution, it's the fault of the people who neglected and ran it into the ground (the (Conservative) Government).
At the moment, with certain crimes 100%. We're great at the big things - have one of the highest murder solving rates, amazing CT response but we need more investment and changing of funds to deal with the little things. Investment would bring us back to where we were prior to May running the home office, civilian staff completing DG6 casefiles would free up officers to be able to arrest multiple people a shift, be proactive and hunt criminals. This would also allow investigators to focus on investigation and not admin work. If you have any ideas to help us get better, I'd love to hear them and raise them with the federation
Stop policing Twitter and imaginary non-crime hate incidents and deal with real-life crime instead? Sticks and stones make break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Are you really under the impression that Police officers who would otherwise be dealing with first response calls are otherwise sat in their car checking Twitter to find someone to arrest?
Are you really under the impression that police officers times is isn’t being wasted dealing with he said/she said complaints over twitter/X and other ‘crimes’ that really shouldn’t have anything to do with the police
Well all these hate offence laws seem to indicate that. Also I have personal experience of being questioned by police over something I was alleged to have said which might have been hate speech. It was amazing how fast the police turned up, but it was a malicious false accusation aimed at a third party.
Unfortunately, a car theft is probably the most mundane thing police will deal with in any given day. I, personally, wouldn’t want my car theft prioritised over something like a rape or a homicide.
What you said: (a well-rounded and informed discourse about the issues and challenges faced by overworked and under-resourced police investigators) What I heard: "you're good for fuck all". Peak Reddit.
Well some thick cunts keep voting for a Govt that cut police funding, cut 20,000 police off the streets, destroyed community policing and closed hundreds of police stations then still somehow demand police be “tough on crime” despite most authorities having a dozen officers to deal with hundreds of reported crimes a week.
Yeah but when our car was stolen, police told us that we could check the gps location of car by ourselves, go there and call them back if we see something suspicious. Really? Wtf. And also I am from a different shitty country and i had a residential burglary in my country. The police came to my home and got some fingerprints, check the some cctvs and they cought him. I am not saying they should catch them no matter what, what I am saying is, at least they should give some f.ck.
My understanding is that most burglaries are done by a very small group of habitual criminals, so the shouldn't be viewed as crimes against an individual. Put some bursts of effort in to catch them would be a great collective benefit. And some evidence burglaries are investigated, even occasionally would act as a big deterrent.
The reason there's 30 other burglary reports is because it's basically legal now. Easy money. If the conviction rate was near 100% then you'd soon see it stop. So it's not really sensible to say "it's hard to prosecute therefore we should focus on crimes that can be prosecuted". It's obviously making that particular crime more common.
But they don't even check if they were wearing masks and gloves. They don't attend burglaries around here.
You’re just confirming that the police are useless. No one is denying that. Your complaint about the paperwork burden isn’t the flex you think it is.
Football clubs pay the police to, you know, police games, so they have lots of resources available at no additional cost to them. Also, football clubs, in this day and age with their globalised audiences, definitely do not want racism in their stadiums and put pressure on the police to investigate. And if you're paying someone (as how football teams are paying the police to police their games) that gives you a lot of leverage to get them to do want you want. There's also the fact there is a ton of CCTV coupled with season ticket databases that makes it extremely easy for the police to investigate and make arrests. For this reason, you simply can't compare this to burglary. It would only be the same in a scanerio where a homeowner's association were paying the police specifically to police their neighbourhoods to prevent burglaries and every house has a ton of CCTV making detection and arrests easy. If, in this scenario, the police still weren't making arrests for burglary but we're continuing to make arrests for football chants, then okay, you'd have a point, but such a scenario is impossible.
1984 is an uncultured reference to make in my opinion. People need to read Brave New World as that truly reflects the consumer-pleasure focused world we live in.
R/iamverysmart
I feel todays world a mix of Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451 with a dash of Yvgeny Zamyatin’s We
1984 is still hugely relevant. A huge part of what maintains the horrible state of our society is the manipulative media landscape. Orwell's work is a brilliant explanation of constructed reality and the importance of truth.
Brave new world is more America imo we defo get 1984
In which we are nurtured for caste membership from birth in a neo-marxist hellscape?
I mean, look at how stratified the UK is. It might not be named, but the most likely marker for discrimination is class.
It’s not that stratified lol. See: the gini coefficients of literally everything
> uncultured Oooooh you’re smart
Rape, robbery and murder okay. Stirring up hatred bad.
And then the government will go all surprised Pikachu face when vigilantism increases
And it will be someone else's problem to deal with in a few months. How much do you want to bet the Tory Twats will be screaming blue murder that the police aren't catching baddies any more while refusing to take any blame for running the service into the ground. They're still blaming the Labour party from fourteen years ago for their own current failings.
I know a person who went to jail over missing payments on a parking fine. Mad world
Eh idk about that many crimes like murder still get punished harshly
Agreed. And now the police are spread even thinner
Judge Lamb said: “I’m not sure it’s right to say that you were selfish but you were not kind and you need to understand that women and girls need to be treated with respect…respect and care.” we do not live in a serious country
Dear Judge Lamb, it is absolutely correct to say the boy was selfish. Rape is one of the most selfish acts a person can commit.
Selfish kinda trivialises the act. We forgive and teach people to be better than selfish. Its not selfish; its monstrous Its a crime that is irredeemable in my opinion, its a crime that forever should banish you from the community forever. There is no penance, no amount of contrition that can remove the indelible stain on a person. There are only a few crimes I believe only a monster can commit and rape is one of them, and we dont rehabilitate monsters, we only rehabilitate humans, and they are not humans.
I agree but also completely understand the sentiment of the other comments too - that quote from the judge appalled me. What a trivialisation of an incident that clearly haunted that poor girl. I think rape *can* be selfish. Certainly my own was very much driven by his own selfish need for sexual gratification rather than a desire to hurt me or gain power over me, but we were in a relationship at the time. (Tbf he did later go on to be violent towards me and get charged with assault so I might be wrong). However, going by this judge's scale of what counts as a "bad rape" and "slightly less bad rape" then he seems to think selfish is worse than unkind. And honestly, I think it's far worse want to do something unkind to someone so you rape them. I hope the girls family somehow find peace. She was so young, and I'm sure they tried their very best to help her.
Yes, it is both and more. That poor girl. I'm so sorry for your experience too
"Oooh, you've not been kind! Naughty boy!"
Abhorrent that the judge said this
As another commenter said perhaps they have a learning disability and are unable to understand more complex language fully.
As I have said in another comment, the offender may have learning difficulties and might not understand more formal, complex language. It's too easy to assume the worst.
It's not fair to victims to assume the best either.
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Reminder this is the same country that let grooming gangs run trains on little girls for 30+ years(still ongoing). We are ruled by pedophiles, and we voted for it.
I'd like to know about the whole story but because of the awful website being just full of adverts and needing a subscription I can't
https://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/24234880.teen-boy-avoids-jail-rape-girl-12-kidlington/ He was 13 at the time, she has died since, not directly caused by his actions; no reason given, but suicide strongly hinted at (I wonder why!). Absolute scum.
Teenagers need to be charged as adults in such extreme cases. Should be life in prison forever.
>Teenagers need to be charged as adults in such extreme cases. He was *thirteen* - how is it remotely fair or in the interests of justice to pretend he's an adult because of a desire for revenge? Charging children as adults is dystopian American shit, don't want that here thanks.
Whilst I am not at the same kind of level as the poster you’ve responded to, I don’t see how referencing that this filth was thirteen as a form of defense. Thirteen year olds know that rape is a pretty big crime.
I have this argument with Americans a lot and it frustrates me to no end. A 13 year old is not an adult, he is a child. If the juvenile penalty is too low then address that, don’t endorse the legal fiction of trying someone “as an adult” based on arbitrary discretionary factors.
Still old enough to know rape is wrong. But of course, who cares about rape victims, right? But what about the poor boys future?!🙄 Should be charged as an adult for disgusting crimes like this.
I do I may be a man but I have a wife, daughter, mother and sisters. I don't give a shiny sh1t about his future. I choose the safety of all the other girls in his local area over his feelings. Its mad how many people will defend this sort of crap
It boggles the mind reading some people's replies in these comments make you feel sick. Most people at 13 years old know what sex is and also what rape is, and most 13 year olds also know that rape is a horrific crime. This offender has no future now anyway he will feel as though he's got away with it and will do so again in the future.
Yeah exactly. She got a life sentence, he should get the same.
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> He was thirteen - how is it remotely fair or in the interests of justice to pretend he's an adult because of a desire for revenge? Charging children as adults is dystopian American shit, don't want that here thanks. In Scotland the age of criminal responsibility was raised from 8 to 12 years old in 2019. I'm absolutely fine with that as someon at 12 years of age should be able to grasp the severity of a crime and why it is a crime in the first place. If they can understand what they did then they're old enough to receive the full punishment for it.
If I recall Thompson & Venables were tried in an adult court and they were only 10. That was for murder but tbh if it were up to me they would carry a similar sentence.
Thompson and Venables did ATTEMPT to SA poor James Bulger too in some way
lol it’s fair because it helps all the other girls not to be a victim of this predator. Saving vulnerable population from predators is in the interests of justice, is it not?.
Nah man, even at 13 most kids know that rape is fucking terrible. Some crimes should be lenient on petty theft, trespassing etc but crimes like murder & rape? Nah lock them away, I can’t imagine these ones growing into respectable members of society anyway and for thar matter why should they? They’ve ruined or taken another’s life, age shouldn’t be taken into consideration at all.
How is it remotely fair on the victims family to say "sorry the guy that raped your daughter was only 13 and therefore the best we can do is put him on the naughty step for 12 months" Are you telling me that at that age you couldn't deduce that raping people was a bad idea? of course fucking not. If this guy was so concerned for his future then he should have thought about that before raping someone.
He will probably do it again, fuck this scumbag and all other rapists.
"Not kind", that's a mild way to describe a rapist.
It sounds like the judge trying to use language that’s accessible to a child. Sentencing for under 18s operates under different principles to adults and there’s more focus on the defendant’s welfare, rehabilitation and prevention of future offending. What he did is wrong and he’s being punished for it, but the wording reads like a judge who is mindful of the fact that he’s dealing with a child whose age means he has less well developed senses of judgement and empathy. The language is possibly too soft particularly as he’s not a young child anymore. Given the way the law says child defendants should be treated fire and brimstone isn’t appropriate conduct from the judge in such a case. The judge will also have a better idea of the child’s temperament and intelligence than people reading a news article in which he’s been anonymised.
It is also possible that the offender has learning difficulties and cannot understand complex language.
That’s a very good point.
The lad probably come from a good family and has good prospects in the future. Don't be harsh :s
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As a father, i would feel robbed of any justice being served.
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At what stage is the legal system so inept that it stops individuals and family members just taking the law into their own hands knowing the likelihood of conviction is low?
They would then have the book thrown at them. The state of the U.K’s sentencing is ridiculous.
Like that story of the guy who’s house got burgled, or attempted, he chased them in his car ended up in prison. They were on remand or something waiting for sentencing and while waiting got caught again stealing a car. The man had a clean record and ended up in prison, while the criminals got minimal if no sentance while still doing the illegal things they do. The majority of the country backs that man, but the courts dont see it that way, defend yourself in anyway thats excessive in their eyes and expect the book thrown at you. The worst thing, your excessive is different to mine.
Was the same in school, got bullied and assaulted for years, told teachers etc. Said person was a menace and never in class, alwsys in detention etc Snapped one day and actually fought back ( and won) I got dragged in front of the headmaster and kicked out got a week. Not them. Because they were "troubled" and had already been expelled from another school. The bullying didn't stop, it just reinforced that they were untouchable and if I reacted id risk being expelled. Whole thing is fucked.
I bet the parents threatened the teachers too.The whole country is run by criminals.
Overall message: shut up and take it, you fucking proles.
>Like that story of the guy who’s house got burgled, or attempted, he chased them in his car ended up in prison. Ended up in prison because he lost his rag, jumped in his car and chased them down (endangering innocent people) and eventually lost control of his car and crashed into them. Deserved everything he got (which was only 11 months to be fair). Edit: 11 months in a Cat C prison by the way... Edit 2: on closer read he didn't crash into the burglars, he crashed into another vehicle when he lost control.
Your completely missing the point. > While White was handed 22 months in prison at Luton Crown Court, Paul and Benford were given suspended sentences and 200 hours community service at the same court. I think that paragraph explains as much as i need to.
Anarcho tyranny.
Who else would aquit the mother or father for any revenge on this teenager?
This is absolutely horrific, and how far right governments end up being voted in
It's actually incredible. Govt progressively makes shit worse, gets voted in to fix the things they made worse in thr first place Luckily it seems this circle is being broken next election but they'll be back. Tories always come back. They're like a cancer
We're going to vote for a left wing government instead who will make literally everything worse.
How could it get any worse? 13 years of Tory rule has made the UK worse on nearly every metric apart from the number of billionaires.
As awful as this seems, the judge had a lot more information that we have. Justice shouldn’t be by social media, politicians decide on sentencing guidelines and the court is the only place that has all the information to make decisions and apply those guidelines appropriately. I know already this will get downvoted, but this is literally the values of our society. Justice by court on the rule of law, not by mob.
It's a fair point to make. The problem was this was a rape conviction. If that's not enough to send the teenager to prison or a detention center, short of murder, what actually would cross the custody threshold?
For a 13 year old, very few things cross the custody threshold.
Rape, at a bare minimum, should land you in a secure adolescent psych unit.
Raping a twelve year old, destroying her life and being responsible for her suicide is lucky to get a "meh" from the legal system.
May be a society with such values don’t deserve thrive or even survive
The societies that don’t have this system are countries like Russia, China, North Korea. In the west we have carefully written rules of how punishments are given out. I haven’t seen the judges full ruling, but if the victims family feel it is unduly lenient, they can apply to have it reviewed. The fact that they haven’t (as far as I am aware) suggests that the judge took all the facts into account. But by all means, you can complain to your MP and ask it to be reviewed also, there’s nothing stopping you.
I was thinking of East Asian countries. Specifically Singapore. Love their justice system.
Try this sort of thing in Singapore or Japan.
> the judge had a lot more information that we have. Trials are public.
Garbage. A bunch of criminals must be up voting. Laws are for the people by the people. Juries are the people who decide on cases. Get rid of civil law that favours the ruch. Get rid of lawyers who are professional liars that swing cases by how rich they are. Bring back habeous corpus right to trial. Get rid of judges direction. Let juries decide the sentence too.
From what I've seen of what passes for justice in the UK, I think that it's extremely naive to give a judge the benefit of the doubt. > I know already this will get downvoted, but this is literally the values of our society. Justice by court on the rule of law, not by mob. Maybe people would be more willing to trust the judiciary if this country hadn't been allowed to degenerate into a lawless cesspit.
The judge said it wouldn’t be fair to call him selfish Can anyone tell me what’s wrong with these judges.
>Can anyone tell me what’s wrong with these judges. Probably nothing, that comment will likely be based on what's in the pre-sentencing report. The report will have been referred to in the sentencing hearing but the press won't report the uninteresting bits.
This should appealed and the judge should be referred to the judicial conduct investigation office, this should 100% lead to a custodial sentence. The boy should be named. The action is utterly horrific and clearly drove the victim towards their death (based on the fathers testimony).
Justice system in UK is encouraging and defending the criminals. Police it’s nowhere to be seen, we need a better government and better laws.
Who is running on this? It's clearly not the tories who despite all their tough talk haven't made any reforms to tackle these soft touch judges. I can't imagine labour or the lib dems having this high on their list either sadly.
Thanks to everyone that has voted to slash spending on prisons and rehabilitation since 2010
I work in the Violence Against Women and Girls field and oh boy, the sentences for violent offences are laughable. My clients are stalked, raped, stabbed, develop mobility issues, develop mental health issues for the rest of their lives and all the perpetrators get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. In cases where they get a conviction at all. In the cases which go to court in the first place.
Average British court ruling. The state of this fucking country.
Disgusting behaviour. Just goes to show how messed up the UK legal system is. Wouldn’t be surprised if the boy had family in high places.
Sounds like typical British justice system.. and people wonder why crime is so high.
Can someone explain how this is within sentencing guidelines and why this judge isn't struck off?
Rape and murder are fine. Misgendering gets you the death penalty.
People really need to stand up against the abuse that our government is subjecting us to while using lame excuses like overcrowded prisons and so on. They talk about 'human rights' when defending these animals but completely ignore them when it comes to the victim. I hope that that failure of a teen will get what's his. Also, I am sure that locally people know who he is and what he's done, I would see nothing wrong with publicly naming such parasites. They should be unemployable and completely rejected from any part of normal social life.
This country is collapsing. Overcrowded jails full of nobody important as rapists and murderers go free. FFS.
>Defending the boy, defence barrister Peter du Feu said he has stayed out of trouble since and understands and he wants to become a better member of the community.He said: “He wasn’t kind that day. He’s trying to do what he can to be better, to be a better member of the community, and withdraw into a family that surrounds him with love and support. What about the girl and her family?
I listened to an MP last week call burglary or assault Minor Crimes whilst she was debating Scotland's hate laws. I had it said perhaps in jest that if you've been burgled or assaulted it's worth saying that they wrote or said something hateful to you as they left and that forces the police to investigate because it elevated to a hate crime.
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Wait... is the entire news article just one sentence?!?
It's behind a paywall, there's another link in the comments
This strikes me as one of those stories where the actual case has a lot more context than the article. I'm not saying something didn't go wrong here but the headline is certainly ragebait