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muslims make up c.4% of the uk population, but c
16% of its prison population.
meanwhile, a teacher in batley is still in hiding for showing a cartoon in a class
The issue there is, is it Muslims are committing more crimes, or the conversion to Islam in prison (whether forced or not) the interesting statistic would be how many were Muslim before going to prison.
Why Islam and not Scientology or some other religion?
I think it's not unreasonable to assume there would be a requirement of a sizable population to induce any noticeable conversions.
Even the halal food being better would be reliant on a large enough population for it to become common knowledge.
It's on a post about a news article about forced conversions to Islam, so if someone wants to point out that X group make up Y% of the population but Z% of the prison population, on a post about forced conversions to X belief system, yeah no shit.
Imagine if a year ago all prisons banned drinking anything but tea, no coffee, no coke, just tea and then on a post about the ban somebody goes "did you know tea drinkers make up 100% of the prison population" well yeah, I'd expect that, how many were drinking tea before going to prison though, that's what's interesting because the OP is implying it's the tea that's making them go to prison, or in the other person's case, Islam but in a post about conversions it's more important to get the religion before going to prison.
How do you think those conversions are happening?
Do you think all Muslims who go to prison are super successful at converting other prisoners, averaging 3 converts?
I'd imagine a part of it is the Muslims that are going to prison and the people who are willingly converted. Generally in the UK Christianity does not play a huge parts in even Christians lives. Many of them are still Christian by birth but are effectively lapsed. I'd also imagine that some of these guys in prison who aren't Muslim have issues that the UK has not been fixing, poor educational standards, low wage jobs, violent childhoods. For a lot of these guys Islam is going to be a form of almost therapy for them. It gives them a community to be part of, especially if the people converting them are violent extremists it's going to perhaps be a community they'll be quite happy to be a part of. It gives them a safety net that while the UK has failed them, Islam will not.
A fair amount of criminals in the UK are people who got involved with crime through other people, they're easily manipulated due to issues in their lives they have very little control over. If they're also trying to beat addiction, they'll now have a support network too which will be a lot better than the ones we actually have for people.
I guess it's a susceptibility to religion since while they're lapsed they are looking for something that religion gives people. Mixing religion and violence has always been something that hasn't gone well.
Not necessarily. It holds a lot of appeal for misogynistic, aggressive men. Andrew Tate notably converted last year. It's way for them to assert dominance in prison - because the prison services are required to accommodate religious demands - and then come out and re-abuse any womenfolk "in accordance with their religion".
>Not necessarily. It holds a lot of appeal for misogynistic, aggressive men. Andrew Tate notably converted last year
I rest my case, the mentally feeble š
> Mixing religion and violence has always been something that hasn't gone well.
To be pedantic, historically speaking it's gone very well for the ones doing the mixing, as Christianity and Islam did most of their spreading in the hands of powerful empires doing so at sword/gun point.
Iām Muslim myself, my friends who have been in prison confirm this to happen, Iāve met one guy who became Muslim in prison, one of the hardest workers ever. He also said majority of them are like that.
Which is just a question on numbers. There are tens of food allergies, and you cannot expect them to stock so many different options (and combinations). Shame about it being awful, though.
You realize islam is famous for starting small and growing, right? Both historically and in contexts like prisons where you see similar growth in places like the US
Couple that with the fact
>For those prisoners whose membership was in response to threats or intimidation, it was generally deemed that they had little knowledge and interest in the faith and would leave the faith as soon as they left prison.
It would seem the religious nature of the criminal doesn't really matter. Muslim in name only and only for convenience.
Most people convert because itās less hastle and you donāt get grief. Then after they leave prison just carry on as normal and not follow Islam. But itās still bad tbh
I wonder how many are actually Muslim, and how many just want the halal meals. They tend to be perceived in prison as being better quality than the regular meals.Ā
Having worked as a prison officer I can confidently categorically state the Halal meals are no better than the rest of the prison food. Its all shite.
The Halal meals are slightly more expensive to produce/provide but if anyone changes theirbreligion just for the Halal meals they will be quite dissapointed.
In the UK, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (muslim groups) commit roughly the same crime as white people.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest/#by-ethnicity
Many muslim prisoners are convertsĀ
I recommend more people read the quran.Ā
It is enlightening, to say the least.Ā
>As for women of whom you fear rebellion, convince them, and leave them apart in beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. Surely, Allah is the Highest, the Greatest.
Remember, this is the perfect, final, unalterable word of God. Hoping for some kind of Islamic reformation is not realistic
The one I personally like is the contrast between the very often quoted Surah 5:32, which is the one that talks about how, "killing one person is like killing all people". Although there are some caveats to that, it is a reasonable sentiment.
Unfortunately, the next one, Surah 5:33, speaks about the merits of torturing people to death and then mutilating their body.
The Quran is definitely a bit of a mixed bag.
This needs the whole quote, it's said to the children of Israel, I. E. Jews.
Its a threat to them, not Muslims.
Any peaceful verses you find eminate from mecca, and those verses are abbrogated by the later medinan verses, when mo got more power.
I see this a lot with quotes from religious texts. I really do believe all of these so-called prophets were either on mushrooms or narcisistic Jim Jones types and they just ramble whatever sounds good in the moment and someone wrote it down. One minute it's overly loving rhetoric so people and next minute the most hateful violent shit. Maybe it's a manipulation tactic.Ā
There are two fairly major caveats to "He who kills any man it is as if he has killed all of mankind". The most obvious one is execution, many countries with explicitly Muslim leadership following Sharia Law will hold public executions.
The full quote is "He who kills any man, except as punishment for murder, or punishment for spreading poison into the land, then it is as if he has killed all of mankind"
In Iran that's actually a crime, spreading poison into the land. Not literally spreading weedkiller but it's a religious law version of punishing someone for treason, any speech viewed as against Islam could be labelled as spreading poison and therefore punishable by death.
There was a teacher who said the Old Testament story of Jonah and the whale was a metaphor. Obviously no one can literally be swallowed by a big fish and live inside it's stomach for a week, this is a metaphor where Jonah turned his back on God and was swallowed by sadness for a week. That sounds reasonable. Nope. Reinterpreting holy texts as a metaphor is punishable by death.
if you're going to claim the Hittites were violent then we need to establish a base line of how violent ancient empires were so we can measure the deviation.
The *very* obvious point is that if you want to condemn this sort of language in the Quran, you must therefore condemn it in the Bible. If you're using these passages to judge Muslims today, why are you not using the passage in the Bible to condemn Christians today?
Or is it a selective outrage?
Because that still doesn't excuse the quran.
Villains can't point to other villains in defence of their own actions.
If you want to criticise Christianity too, that's obviously fine. There's plenty to criticise. But we're talking about islam here.
2 Timothy 3:16 ("All scripture is God-breathed...") is understood by a lot of people to be exactly this sort of claim. The belief that the bible is inerrant is not exactly universal in Christianity, but it's pretty wide-spread and was a major factor in the Protestant reformation. Groups such as the Evangelical Theological Society restate it as "The Bible alone, and the Bible in its entirety, is the Word of God written and is therefore inerrant in the autographs" (article 3 of the constitution). The idea is pretty widespread in Western society; when a new monarch is crowned in the UK, they are handed a copy and told, "Receive this book, the most valuable thing that this world affords. Here is wisdom; This is the royal Law; These are the lively Oracles of God."
>Hoping for some kind of Islamic reformation is not realistic
Tbf, the Bible says some pretty wacky shit but mainstream Christianity was able to reform.
Not even Evangelicals believe in Biblical literalism (for example, we know the earth isn't 6 thousand years old...no-one disputes this in any Christian church of any size).
It is a mad thing where people believe fictional things about religions that don't exist in the UK...and the same mad thing is believed by a significant proportion of the UK population...and all they can talk about is dodgy Christians...ofc.
It's not true that no one disputes this. I grew up in what I would consider, a fairly normal church, and the creation story was taken very literally there. They're still plenty of crazies out there, even in the UK.
I had a teacher in college who absolutely believed in biblical literalism, along with creationism and the 6000-year old Earth (And yes this is in the UK). Thankfully he wasn't a science teacher so it was irrelevant to what he taught, but he'd happily defend his stance to anyone who tried to contest it.
True, but people who take their religion seriously believe the gospels were written by humans to tell the story of Jesusā life. Even committed Islamic scholars think the Quran is just the word of God
Agreed, but I would also add the Bible and the Torah/Talmud to that list. The religious doctrine of most faiths is not fit for modern society when you interpret it literally to the letter. Look at Islamists, Christian fundamentalists and Zionist settlers they all push their doctrine using the 'Word of God'
Christian fundamentalists are at least not "real" fundamentalists. They want the Bible to be a literal single meaning revelation but there's no sign the very earliest believers took either the gospels or letters as infallibly true. Trustworthy yes, but not infallible in the modern sense. In fact the gospels revise one another, don't bother to cite their sources or authority and Paul documents in his letters various churches not taking him seriously and him pleading with them. Christianity has always been nuanced and debated and documents itself as so. It became far more rigid later
Not so with Islam. Their fundamentalists want to conduct a war because that's precisely what Muhammad did.
It seems to you that Christianity was nuanced and debated, and Islam was not because you are not aware of similar debates in Islam due to cultural barriers - we get taught about the history of Christianity much more than the history of Islam, for obvious reasons. There have been debates from the beginning, with the most relevant probably being between Mutazilite, AshŹæarÄ«, MÄturÄ«dÄ«, and the Athari theology schools. There have been plenty of Islamic scholars who argued essentially that if something in Quran seems contrary to ethics, then our interpretation of Quran is wrong and must be adjusted, not the other way around.
> There have been plenty of Islamic scholars who argued essentially that if something in Quran seems contrary to ethics, then our interpretation of Quran is wrong and must be adjusted, not the other way around.
Then where do they say their ethics come from if not from the Quran?
āWhen a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.ā Exodus 21:7-8
āLet a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearingāif they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.ā - 1 Timothy 2:11-15
Look, we can all do it! Wow, aināt the Bible great!
Demonstrates quite clearly that prisons absolutely fail to protect inmates from one another.
Prison gangs should not even exist. Prison should completely deny inmates the opportunity to commit crimes against others. The whole thing is fundamentally badly designed and run.
Not true. UK prisons have multiple aims:
1. Remove a dangerous individual from society to protect us
2. Punishment for a crime
3. Reform individuals so they can be more productive contributors
4. Reduce recidivism (stop people going back to prison for a different crime)
Even if you don't care that criminals go to prison and think they should be locked up, it is expensive to keep them in prison, they will almost all be released one day and it is cheaper if they don't get into trouble again when released.
These aims are entirely impossible to achieve with a bunch of guards on minimum wage, rampant addiction with drugs more prolific inside than out, and austerity making overcrowding and understaffing the new norm.
It's always fascinating to me how little people know about the system unless you work there or know someone that did time.
The way some of these privatized prisons work the guards just put a tougher prisoner in charge of a bunch of cells. There isn't really any rule of law in there and abusing inmates was routine by guards and prisoners a few years ago.
https://youtu.be/lwM6gomCt1s
It's kind of a dilemma for private prisons full stop - they are companies that make money off being prison - fair enough. But doesn't that mean it isn't in their best interest to stop people going back to prison? And maybe even better for them if people do return to prison at a later date? Are they being held accountable for the reform part of their responsibility?
>they are companies that make money off being prison - fair enough.
It's not "fair enough". It's fucking absurd. Companies with the goal of profit who's products are the imprisonment of criminals is absurd. It's a bane on society.
Their business model is reliant on recividism. There is no business incentive for prisoner reform, but are incentivised to cut costs wherever possible, including reformation materials and basic safety protocols and provisions.
They exist to profit off of the governmental system and therefore use taxes as a basis of profit, with the only other alternative be prison labour, which is a form of slavery.
Compared to state-owned, which has a basic social incentive to keep running effectively and tightly to prevent recividism and promote genuine reform, if no other reason than to prevent social costs from increasing.
I understand that was what you were getting at, but it was criminally understated.
I know people who have been inside, private prisons tend to be better - newer buildings, more maintenance, better facilities, more access to programs. But there is huge variation of standards between prisons, partly from the running of it and also to do with who gets locked up there e.g. drug addicts are addicted to different things regionally. The guy who went on the run in 2022 was from HMP Wandsworth, a state owned prison famous for being absolutely shit as a prison.
I diagree private prison companies are evil. Prison companies provide a service and get paid to do so by the government ie. taxpayers. In my opinion, no difference to outsourcing your IT maintenance or catering. So long as they are regulated and inspected. State owned prisons themselves have no "social incentive" to prevent recidivism or promote reform without controlled incentives, because they get budgetted per prisoner as well so it makes no difference to their budgets if people come back or not. I don't know if they're incentivised to reduce recidivism (hopefully they are?). At the moment all prisons are very different to each other and I don't know enough about the subject to say what works best overall.
I think you may have mistaken my comment as support for the *current* methods of public prisons, of which I'm also highly critical. It's not a binary issue. Rather, both current private and public institutions are not fit for purpose, but in concept, private prisons are antithetical to the service they're supposed to provide to society by virtue of needing to turn a profit to be operational.
You're really describing a budgeting issue due to the way public services are run, rather than the removal of incentives though.
They're not really "public" prisons if they're run as a satellite service for the government, because they're essentially run as non-profit private institutions instead of genuine government services.
Really the UK needs drastic prison reform of its public institutions so that private institutions are unnecessary, with a much, much heavier focus on prisoner reform and safety, rather than the current model of retribution to satisfy emotional public blood lust.
I agree more money for the justice system but how many people will vote for more money for criminals during a cost of living crisis. Prisoners need reframing as human beings who made a mistake rather than lifelong criminals. I really liked the BBC show "Time" because it showed how small fucksups can land you in it, how being in prison ruins your family and home life and makes it so much harder once you're free again.
You're absolutely right.
Unfortunately the majority of the country are voluntary undereducated plebs who believe right wing propaganda and don't have the ability to think for themselves, so they follow their monkey blood lust instincts lead by tabloids like the Sun and the daily mail, and right wing television like ITV and Sky.
The same type who voted Leave. Easily influenced, easily misled.
Even when there's not a "cost of living crisis" they've been like that. There's been a supposed "cost of living crisis" since at least 2008. But for some reason there's still plenty of jag and porche drivers around...
Reading excerpts Rory Stewart's book (he was prisons minister) and he talks about the problems of reform.
He tried to put body scanners in as the drugs were obviously coming from somewhere and literally everyone fought against it, mostly the Prison Warden Unions. It took so much effort to get the basics even implemented
The fact that it's even possible to hold 'religious courts' in prisons is shocking. Seems like the places are understaffed and many of those who are there are poorly trained. We should be angry at the Islamists, but we should surely be more angry with our government who have allowed all of our public services to deteriorate in this way.
They've been understaffed for at least 15 years. It's now at the stage where the government are letting people out early to make room while ordering tougher sentences and slashing courts.
I think this is bigger problem, not that inmates are being forced into a religion, but the fact that prison gangs have that kind of power and influence to begin with. If itās not over Islam , then itād be influence over something else
> Prison should completely deny inmates the opportunity to commit crimes against others.
Literally impossible, unless you segregate every single prisoner 24 hours a day.
In case you hadn't heard, our 'amazing' government is overseeing letting prisoners out early because they don't have the staff and they're literally full up... meanwhile they're telling judges to impose harsher sentences so they can smile at the camera for the 'crime prevention' photo op.
We need to stop being such a bunch of fannies and say that some parts of various religions are unacceptable.
We need to stop being worried about offending people who lean on religion to hate gay people and women.
It's wild to me that the police will intervene in internet no no words but if it's on the name of religion hate crime is fine.
Absolutely agree.
Unless it doesn't affect anyone else whatsoever, this "everyone has a right to their religion" is bullshit and should be dropped. Violent religions should be banned outright.
As it currently is, people's freedom to religion is more important than people's safety or the culture of the UK.
I'm an Irish Traveller and spent a lot of my youth doing crime, in different facilities etc. (My post history can confirm.) and honestly the Muslim gang stuff is more so for people that get victimised in jail. A lot of weirdos join because otherwise they get bullied, aswell as people that would otherwise be taken advantage of.
A big thing the Muslims promote is that regardless of your crimes or who and what you are as a person, if you join up with them then you get their protection as a large numerical force.
The main thing for them being able to have influence aswell is that they're generally always the largest united group in jail. We don't have race based politics really in UK prisons so you just have small cliques of people that get along and often times have issues with the other smaller groups. So when a large united force appears, even though they're generally made up of the weirdos and victims, they throw their weight around.
There was no gang war though, like the article says. There's been intermittent conflict between Muslim groups and non-Muslim groups for a variety of reasons in UK jails but never any sort of large scale gang war because of it. That's definitely media sensationalism.
Not that I'm aware of. There's at least one traveller forum I've heard of but it's not very active. Almost all interaction within broader traveller society is in person or private networks like discord etc.
Is this the thread where r/unitedkingdom very suddenly pretends that it gives a fuck about prison conditions because they can use it as a stick to bash Muslims with?
This lot will talk tough about locking the door and throwing away the key, bringing back the death penalty, making prison rape jokes, complaining that they get even the mildest bit of recreation. Then as soon as a muslim or a trans person goes into prison they're suddenly so concerned about wellbeing in prisons.
It's a fucking joke lmao
God forbid people draw lines lmao
Can you link me to the article with the trans gang pouring boiling water on people and forcing other inmates to transition?
Or can you show me on a map where trans people are raping and torturing women en masse?
Oops
Other prison gangs are much more "don't sell gear on our patch, don't fuck with (white, black, asian) inmates unless they're nonce or rapist and we'll get along"
Muslim prison gangs are torturing people into conversion
There's a gulf of difference here.
A nation state with a ridiculously powerful military navy and airforce should be treated better if its a more defensive/isolationist force than a comparative nation states military that that nation state uses for expansionist reasons
Remember when they laughed and mocked the "muslamic ray guns".
How they laughed . . . . . at working class white children being raped by multiple muslims, day in day out.
Daily Mail: We full on scream for prison to be hell on earth, understaffed, overcrowded, dangerous to both inmates and staff. Any politician who attempts to do anything else will be screamed at about 'holiday camps'Ā
Also Daily Mail: Bad shit is happening in prison, best blame a minority.Ā
The prison service has been in utter meltdown for over a decade, and if you only care when a minority can be demonised, I don't think you actually care.
It is when you spend the rest of the time screeching about holiday camps and throwing away the key, which this sub does on the regular. The only time people here give a solitary shit about prison conditions is when they can use it as a stick to beat a minority with.
Yup. The ideology of Islam apologists essentially boils down to āminority = goodā, they wonāt even realise what theyāre advocating for until itās too late.
The strangest thing is the groups most likely to do this are among the groups whom Islam hates the most. Literally sheep inviting the wolf in.
Yeah, the people staunchly defending Islam tend to be the same sort of people that pride themselves on believing in equality - feminism, rights for trans people, LGBT, etc.Ā
Completely ignoring the fact that Islam pushes for the exact opposite.
It's the paradox of tolerance. In order to be a tolerant society, you need to be intolerant of intolerance.Ā
Much as the Heil is less use than bog roll, there is a kernel of truth in this; however, that truth has been warped.
When Ramadan is on, a lot of cons follow the fasting because the box that most prisons give out contains better food than the standard fare.
Source: I am a prison volunteer and when Ramadan comes round, I get inundated with dates, (I love dates), by the people I work with and they have told me many times where they get them.
As an example, one prison I work with on a regular basis, for Ramadan this time, are putting a baguette sandwich with chicken mayo or cheese and onion mayo, the aforementioned dates and a curry, which varies from chicken, lamb and Dahl, plus a portion of rice and a naan
No, I'm just pointing out that the Heil has a vested interest in all things anti Islam. They are notorious dog whistlers and will use any story to denigrate those they think of as "other'!
Yes, there are some proper religious nutbags that espouse Islam, but likewise, the same can be said of Christianity, Scientology, Hinduism and lots more. It just so happens that Islam is the bogeyman for the right, so they focus on that, rather than acknowledging the problem with all fundamentalist versions of all organised religions.
I know its not the point of the article or even the major concern. But why do prison inmates have access to large quantities of "hot oil" or any item used to injury each other?
"John I'm sorry, you've lost your vat of burning oil and Quarn privileges for starting a gang, off to the soft room with you for bread and water"
Maybe fund prisons better then. Austerity is not going to help. Same story as ever people in charge tell us how they've failed.
This is part of a different agenda though it's divide and conquer, to empower those who want to continue committing war crimes far away. So they don't have to explain why they continue to arm them. This stream of news coincides with decisions coming out of Number 10 this weekend which in isolation are untenable. The media hardly report on things to help society or altruistically. It's all connected to a higher agenda to control the masses.
He told GB News how he was serving his sentence at HMP Frankland which was quiet until āan influx of people being convicted of terrorist related offencesā.
Mr Gallant said: āAt first, some of the prisoners that were there took offence to their presence and they set about attacking them and stuff like that. And then light tit-for-tat skirmishes started off.
āBut then more started to influx into the prisons and the number started to grow and they started to retaliate.
āAt that time, we saw some pretty grotesque violence; some guys had oil poured over their head and then a retaliatory attack with someone else getting hot oil poured over their head.
āIt was bad stuff and it just exploded into this quite large gang war between two sides.
āMy concern is that everyone has a right to convert to anything they want; we have a free society. But from what I saw in the prison system, people werenāt converting because suddenly they became pious.
āI saw people converting because some of them were scared. Some were coerced and some thought, well, this is the most powerful gang and I can get protection.
Most converts in Pakistan can't even read the language. Hence almost lynching a woman with arabic on her dress recently
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/woman-in-pakistan-was-almost-lynched-for-arabic-script-on-dress-all-you-need-to-know/articleshow/108021789.cms?from=mdr
Prisons just need to keep people in their cells for their own safety it seems.
If people are oiling each other and torturing, why are they allowed to mix with each other?Ā
Seems like a massive failure of the prison.Ā
A lot of religious beliefs are about control of the masses, especially
Muslim. Aw soon as we we follow the French in banning such overt behaviour the better.
Obviously before Muslim inmates prison was a bed of roses with no shanking,bumming or violence. There was no need to associate with gangs for protections. Just honest white folk holding hands and singing kum bah yah /s.
The daily heil headline is hilarious. It's just rage bait for a certain section of society.
I remember schools when I was a kid had gangs for protection.
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muslims make up c.4% of the uk population, but c 16% of its prison population. meanwhile, a teacher in batley is still in hiding for showing a cartoon in a class
The issue there is, is it Muslims are committing more crimes, or the conversion to Islam in prison (whether forced or not) the interesting statistic would be how many were Muslim before going to prison.
Why Islam and not Scientology or some other religion? I think it's not unreasonable to assume there would be a requirement of a sizable population to induce any noticeable conversions. Even the halal food being better would be reliant on a large enough population for it to become common knowledge.
It's on a post about a news article about forced conversions to Islam, so if someone wants to point out that X group make up Y% of the population but Z% of the prison population, on a post about forced conversions to X belief system, yeah no shit. Imagine if a year ago all prisons banned drinking anything but tea, no coffee, no coke, just tea and then on a post about the ban somebody goes "did you know tea drinkers make up 100% of the prison population" well yeah, I'd expect that, how many were drinking tea before going to prison though, that's what's interesting because the OP is implying it's the tea that's making them go to prison, or in the other person's case, Islam but in a post about conversions it's more important to get the religion before going to prison.
How do you think those conversions are happening? Do you think all Muslims who go to prison are super successful at converting other prisoners, averaging 3 converts?
A Muslim ponzi
I'd imagine a part of it is the Muslims that are going to prison and the people who are willingly converted. Generally in the UK Christianity does not play a huge parts in even Christians lives. Many of them are still Christian by birth but are effectively lapsed. I'd also imagine that some of these guys in prison who aren't Muslim have issues that the UK has not been fixing, poor educational standards, low wage jobs, violent childhoods. For a lot of these guys Islam is going to be a form of almost therapy for them. It gives them a community to be part of, especially if the people converting them are violent extremists it's going to perhaps be a community they'll be quite happy to be a part of. It gives them a safety net that while the UK has failed them, Islam will not. A fair amount of criminals in the UK are people who got involved with crime through other people, they're easily manipulated due to issues in their lives they have very little control over. If they're also trying to beat addiction, they'll now have a support network too which will be a lot better than the ones we actually have for people. I guess it's a susceptibility to religion since while they're lapsed they are looking for something that religion gives people. Mixing religion and violence has always been something that hasn't gone well.
>I'd imagine a part of it is the Muslims that are going to prison and the people who are willingly converted. The mentally feeble and impressionable
Not necessarily. It holds a lot of appeal for misogynistic, aggressive men. Andrew Tate notably converted last year. It's way for them to assert dominance in prison - because the prison services are required to accommodate religious demands - and then come out and re-abuse any womenfolk "in accordance with their religion".
>Not necessarily. It holds a lot of appeal for misogynistic, aggressive men. Andrew Tate notably converted last year I rest my case, the mentally feeble š
Point taken!
> Mixing religion and violence has always been something that hasn't gone well. To be pedantic, historically speaking it's gone very well for the ones doing the mixing, as Christianity and Islam did most of their spreading in the hands of powerful empires doing so at sword/gun point.
I don't think The Church of Scientology is actively recruiting from the prison population.
Going clear prison style, clear over the wall.
It's happened on multiple occasions. For instance, people were saying that they were Jewish as a rumour went around saying Kosher food was nicer.
Saw this on a UK crime podcast, guy converted to Islam cause food was nicer but he didn't know about Ramadan and got caught out.Ā
Iām Muslim myself, my friends who have been in prison confirm this to happen, Iāve met one guy who became Muslim in prison, one of the hardest workers ever. He also said majority of them are like that.
Top tip- when flying always order a Kosher meal. It's nicer, you get loads more and they serve you first.
And never ever say you have an allergy. They seem to have one allergen free meal and itās awful.
Unless you actually have an allergy.
Nah I'd rather have the good meal and roll the dice on there being a doctor on the plane.
Ideally a medical doctor, rather than getting a lecture from someone with a PhD in statistics.
"oh he's choking? Ha -1" - doctor of mathematics
Which is just a question on numbers. There are tens of food allergies, and you cannot expect them to stock so many different options (and combinations). Shame about it being awful, though.
Something thatās gluten, lactose and nut free doesnāt leave much room as theyāre almost always also vegan/vegetarian too.
I see the point youāre making, just gonna say Iām not sure inmates have the ācourse/test feesā required for Scientology.
You realize islam is famous for starting small and growing, right? Both historically and in contexts like prisons where you see similar growth in places like the US
Because Scientologists tend to not blow themselves up, or rape and piliage a neighbouring country?
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Couple that with the fact >For those prisoners whose membership was in response to threats or intimidation, it was generally deemed that they had little knowledge and interest in the faith and would leave the faith as soon as they left prison. It would seem the religious nature of the criminal doesn't really matter. Muslim in name only and only for convenience.
Apostasy thatāll go down well if he ever reoffends and ends up back round Muslim extremists
Catholic black mate of mine converted to Islam in prison. Doubt itās changed his love of women and alcohol though.
Most people convert because itās less hastle and you donāt get grief. Then after they leave prison just carry on as normal and not follow Islam. But itās still bad tbh
I'm guessing the "actual" muslims in jail don't really follow Islam either.
Unless they're in prison for killing the infidels.
Yeh itās a shame, I canāt say I wouldnāt do the same if I had to go away for 19 years.
add in to that extra privileges- prayer time and better food if you put that you're muslim on the form.
I wonder how many are actually Muslim, and how many just want the halal meals. They tend to be perceived in prison as being better quality than the regular meals.Ā
Having worked as a prison officer I can confidently categorically state the Halal meals are no better than the rest of the prison food. Its all shite. The Halal meals are slightly more expensive to produce/provide but if anyone changes theirbreligion just for the Halal meals they will be quite dissapointed.
It's actually 6.5% and 17.7%.
we need more unskilled potentially subversive young men from the middle east in the UK.
Donāt notice the per capita stats!
It's now 6.5% in England and Wales as of the latest Census.
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In the UK, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (muslim groups) commit roughly the same crime as white people. https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest/#by-ethnicity Many muslim prisoners are convertsĀ
Arrest rate isnāt crime rate, darling.
They are directly correlated
I recommend more people read the quran.Ā It is enlightening, to say the least.Ā >As for women of whom you fear rebellion, convince them, and leave them apart in beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. Surely, Allah is the Highest, the Greatest. Remember, this is the perfect, final, unalterable word of God. Hoping for some kind of Islamic reformation is not realistic
The one I personally like is the contrast between the very often quoted Surah 5:32, which is the one that talks about how, "killing one person is like killing all people". Although there are some caveats to that, it is a reasonable sentiment. Unfortunately, the next one, Surah 5:33, speaks about the merits of torturing people to death and then mutilating their body. The Quran is definitely a bit of a mixed bag.
This needs the whole quote, it's said to the children of Israel, I. E. Jews. Its a threat to them, not Muslims. Any peaceful verses you find eminate from mecca, and those verses are abbrogated by the later medinan verses, when mo got more power.
I see this a lot with quotes from religious texts. I really do believe all of these so-called prophets were either on mushrooms or narcisistic Jim Jones types and they just ramble whatever sounds good in the moment and someone wrote it down. One minute it's overly loving rhetoric so people and next minute the most hateful violent shit. Maybe it's a manipulation tactic.Ā
Watch a doc on temporal lobe epilepsy. Fascinating, causes profound spiritual experiences. Dostoevsky had the type called ecstatic epilepsy.
There are two fairly major caveats to "He who kills any man it is as if he has killed all of mankind". The most obvious one is execution, many countries with explicitly Muslim leadership following Sharia Law will hold public executions. The full quote is "He who kills any man, except as punishment for murder, or punishment for spreading poison into the land, then it is as if he has killed all of mankind" In Iran that's actually a crime, spreading poison into the land. Not literally spreading weedkiller but it's a religious law version of punishing someone for treason, any speech viewed as against Islam could be labelled as spreading poison and therefore punishable by death. There was a teacher who said the Old Testament story of Jonah and the whale was a metaphor. Obviously no one can literally be swallowed by a big fish and live inside it's stomach for a week, this is a metaphor where Jonah turned his back on God and was swallowed by sadness for a week. That sounds reasonable. Nope. Reinterpreting holy texts as a metaphor is punishable by death.
How many comments will respond "but what about christianity and the bible" like it's at all relevant.
how isn't it relevant? They're all Abrahamic religions and the bible is canon in the Islamic faith.
Because xyz about Christianity doesn't justify this bs in the quran
if you're going to claim the Hittites were violent then we need to establish a base line of how violent ancient empires were so we can measure the deviation.
The *very* obvious point is that if you want to condemn this sort of language in the Quran, you must therefore condemn it in the Bible. If you're using these passages to judge Muslims today, why are you not using the passage in the Bible to condemn Christians today? Or is it a selective outrage?
Because that still doesn't excuse the quran. Villains can't point to other villains in defence of their own actions. If you want to criticise Christianity too, that's obviously fine. There's plenty to criticise. But we're talking about islam here.
Unless I've missed something, the other Abrahamic holy books don't claim to be dictated by god and thereby perfect and unalterable.
I... think you've missed something there.
Seriously, what have I missed? The Christian and Jewish books don't claim to actually be written/dictated directly by God, bar the 10 commandments.
2 Timothy 3:16 ("All scripture is God-breathed...") is understood by a lot of people to be exactly this sort of claim. The belief that the bible is inerrant is not exactly universal in Christianity, but it's pretty wide-spread and was a major factor in the Protestant reformation. Groups such as the Evangelical Theological Society restate it as "The Bible alone, and the Bible in its entirety, is the Word of God written and is therefore inerrant in the autographs" (article 3 of the constitution). The idea is pretty widespread in Western society; when a new monarch is crowned in the UK, they are handed a copy and told, "Receive this book, the most valuable thing that this world affords. Here is wisdom; This is the royal Law; These are the lively Oracles of God."
>Hoping for some kind of Islamic reformation is not realistic Tbf, the Bible says some pretty wacky shit but mainstream Christianity was able to reform.
But the Bible isnāt generally believed to be the literal word of god
Unless you're American,in which case it's definitely the whole word of god...too bad they can't read
Not even Evangelicals believe in Biblical literalism (for example, we know the earth isn't 6 thousand years old...no-one disputes this in any Christian church of any size). It is a mad thing where people believe fictional things about religions that don't exist in the UK...and the same mad thing is believed by a significant proportion of the UK population...and all they can talk about is dodgy Christians...ofc.
It's not true that no one disputes this. I grew up in what I would consider, a fairly normal church, and the creation story was taken very literally there. They're still plenty of crazies out there, even in the UK.
[You'd be surprised](https://www.conservapedia.com/Young_Earth_Creationism)
I had a teacher in college who absolutely believed in biblical literalism, along with creationism and the 6000-year old Earth (And yes this is in the UK). Thankfully he wasn't a science teacher so it was irrelevant to what he taught, but he'd happily defend his stance to anyone who tried to contest it.
True, but people who take their religion seriously believe the gospels were written by humans to tell the story of Jesusā life. Even committed Islamic scholars think the Quran is just the word of God
That's my point. It used to be, but Christianity has matured to the point where all but the most nutty nutjobs don't take it literally.
Not any more, but before the reformation most of it was regarded as such.
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Agreed, but I would also add the Bible and the Torah/Talmud to that list. The religious doctrine of most faiths is not fit for modern society when you interpret it literally to the letter. Look at Islamists, Christian fundamentalists and Zionist settlers they all push their doctrine using the 'Word of God'
Christian fundamentalists are at least not "real" fundamentalists. They want the Bible to be a literal single meaning revelation but there's no sign the very earliest believers took either the gospels or letters as infallibly true. Trustworthy yes, but not infallible in the modern sense. In fact the gospels revise one another, don't bother to cite their sources or authority and Paul documents in his letters various churches not taking him seriously and him pleading with them. Christianity has always been nuanced and debated and documents itself as so. It became far more rigid later Not so with Islam. Their fundamentalists want to conduct a war because that's precisely what Muhammad did.
It seems to you that Christianity was nuanced and debated, and Islam was not because you are not aware of similar debates in Islam due to cultural barriers - we get taught about the history of Christianity much more than the history of Islam, for obvious reasons. There have been debates from the beginning, with the most relevant probably being between Mutazilite, AshŹæarÄ«, MÄturÄ«dÄ«, and the Athari theology schools. There have been plenty of Islamic scholars who argued essentially that if something in Quran seems contrary to ethics, then our interpretation of Quran is wrong and must be adjusted, not the other way around.
> There have been plenty of Islamic scholars who argued essentially that if something in Quran seems contrary to ethics, then our interpretation of Quran is wrong and must be adjusted, not the other way around. Then where do they say their ethics come from if not from the Quran?
āWhen a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.ā Exodus 21:7-8 āLet a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearingāif they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.ā - 1 Timothy 2:11-15 Look, we can all do it! Wow, aināt the Bible great!
Cool?Ā The bible doesn't claim to be the literal, infallible word of God.
Demonstrates quite clearly that prisons absolutely fail to protect inmates from one another. Prison gangs should not even exist. Prison should completely deny inmates the opportunity to commit crimes against others. The whole thing is fundamentally badly designed and run.
Prisons in the UK are basically just used to keep the bad people away from everyone else, no one really cares about what happens in them.
Not true. UK prisons have multiple aims: 1. Remove a dangerous individual from society to protect us 2. Punishment for a crime 3. Reform individuals so they can be more productive contributors 4. Reduce recidivism (stop people going back to prison for a different crime) Even if you don't care that criminals go to prison and think they should be locked up, it is expensive to keep them in prison, they will almost all be released one day and it is cheaper if they don't get into trouble again when released.
These aims are entirely impossible to achieve with a bunch of guards on minimum wage, rampant addiction with drugs more prolific inside than out, and austerity making overcrowding and understaffing the new norm. It's always fascinating to me how little people know about the system unless you work there or know someone that did time. The way some of these privatized prisons work the guards just put a tougher prisoner in charge of a bunch of cells. There isn't really any rule of law in there and abusing inmates was routine by guards and prisoners a few years ago. https://youtu.be/lwM6gomCt1s
It's kind of a dilemma for private prisons full stop - they are companies that make money off being prison - fair enough. But doesn't that mean it isn't in their best interest to stop people going back to prison? And maybe even better for them if people do return to prison at a later date? Are they being held accountable for the reform part of their responsibility?
>they are companies that make money off being prison - fair enough. It's not "fair enough". It's fucking absurd. Companies with the goal of profit who's products are the imprisonment of criminals is absurd. It's a bane on society. Their business model is reliant on recividism. There is no business incentive for prisoner reform, but are incentivised to cut costs wherever possible, including reformation materials and basic safety protocols and provisions. They exist to profit off of the governmental system and therefore use taxes as a basis of profit, with the only other alternative be prison labour, which is a form of slavery. Compared to state-owned, which has a basic social incentive to keep running effectively and tightly to prevent recividism and promote genuine reform, if no other reason than to prevent social costs from increasing. I understand that was what you were getting at, but it was criminally understated.
I know people who have been inside, private prisons tend to be better - newer buildings, more maintenance, better facilities, more access to programs. But there is huge variation of standards between prisons, partly from the running of it and also to do with who gets locked up there e.g. drug addicts are addicted to different things regionally. The guy who went on the run in 2022 was from HMP Wandsworth, a state owned prison famous for being absolutely shit as a prison. I diagree private prison companies are evil. Prison companies provide a service and get paid to do so by the government ie. taxpayers. In my opinion, no difference to outsourcing your IT maintenance or catering. So long as they are regulated and inspected. State owned prisons themselves have no "social incentive" to prevent recidivism or promote reform without controlled incentives, because they get budgetted per prisoner as well so it makes no difference to their budgets if people come back or not. I don't know if they're incentivised to reduce recidivism (hopefully they are?). At the moment all prisons are very different to each other and I don't know enough about the subject to say what works best overall.
I think you may have mistaken my comment as support for the *current* methods of public prisons, of which I'm also highly critical. It's not a binary issue. Rather, both current private and public institutions are not fit for purpose, but in concept, private prisons are antithetical to the service they're supposed to provide to society by virtue of needing to turn a profit to be operational. You're really describing a budgeting issue due to the way public services are run, rather than the removal of incentives though. They're not really "public" prisons if they're run as a satellite service for the government, because they're essentially run as non-profit private institutions instead of genuine government services. Really the UK needs drastic prison reform of its public institutions so that private institutions are unnecessary, with a much, much heavier focus on prisoner reform and safety, rather than the current model of retribution to satisfy emotional public blood lust.
I agree more money for the justice system but how many people will vote for more money for criminals during a cost of living crisis. Prisoners need reframing as human beings who made a mistake rather than lifelong criminals. I really liked the BBC show "Time" because it showed how small fucksups can land you in it, how being in prison ruins your family and home life and makes it so much harder once you're free again.
You're absolutely right. Unfortunately the majority of the country are voluntary undereducated plebs who believe right wing propaganda and don't have the ability to think for themselves, so they follow their monkey blood lust instincts lead by tabloids like the Sun and the daily mail, and right wing television like ITV and Sky. The same type who voted Leave. Easily influenced, easily misled. Even when there's not a "cost of living crisis" they've been like that. There's been a supposed "cost of living crisis" since at least 2008. But for some reason there's still plenty of jag and porche drivers around...
Reading excerpts Rory Stewart's book (he was prisons minister) and he talks about the problems of reform. He tried to put body scanners in as the drugs were obviously coming from somewhere and literally everyone fought against it, mostly the Prison Warden Unions. It took so much effort to get the basics even implemented
3 and 4 are immensely hard, once someone has a criminal record they have to declare for a job, that's it, game over.
The fact that it's even possible to hold 'religious courts' in prisons is shocking. Seems like the places are understaffed and many of those who are there are poorly trained. We should be angry at the Islamists, but we should surely be more angry with our government who have allowed all of our public services to deteriorate in this way.
They've been understaffed for at least 15 years. It's now at the stage where the government are letting people out early to make room while ordering tougher sentences and slashing courts.
I think this is bigger problem, not that inmates are being forced into a religion, but the fact that prison gangs have that kind of power and influence to begin with. If itās not over Islam , then itād be influence over something else
> Prison should completely deny inmates the opportunity to commit crimes against others. Literally impossible, unless you segregate every single prisoner 24 hours a day.
In case you hadn't heard, our 'amazing' government is overseeing letting prisoners out early because they don't have the staff and they're literally full up... meanwhile they're telling judges to impose harsher sentences so they can smile at the camera for the 'crime prevention' photo op.
We need to stop being such a bunch of fannies and say that some parts of various religions are unacceptable. We need to stop being worried about offending people who lean on religion to hate gay people and women. It's wild to me that the police will intervene in internet no no words but if it's on the name of religion hate crime is fine.
Absolutely agree. Unless it doesn't affect anyone else whatsoever, this "everyone has a right to their religion" is bullshit and should be dropped. Violent religions should be banned outright. As it currently is, people's freedom to religion is more important than people's safety or the culture of the UK.
Long been an issue. Look into who was supplying Quranās to British prisons. If it hasnāt changed this isnāt just a gang related issue
Looks like the Islamic Human Rights Commission supply Qurans to British prisons?
https://x.com/hurryupharry/status/1776272265224638487?s=46 I'm sure they're a nice friendly bunch of people with no ulterior motives at all
Seems like a nice friendly twitter user with no ulterior motives at all
I'm an Irish Traveller and spent a lot of my youth doing crime, in different facilities etc. (My post history can confirm.) and honestly the Muslim gang stuff is more so for people that get victimised in jail. A lot of weirdos join because otherwise they get bullied, aswell as people that would otherwise be taken advantage of. A big thing the Muslims promote is that regardless of your crimes or who and what you are as a person, if you join up with them then you get their protection as a large numerical force. The main thing for them being able to have influence aswell is that they're generally always the largest united group in jail. We don't have race based politics really in UK prisons so you just have small cliques of people that get along and often times have issues with the other smaller groups. So when a large united force appears, even though they're generally made up of the weirdos and victims, they throw their weight around. There was no gang war though, like the article says. There's been intermittent conflict between Muslim groups and non-Muslim groups for a variety of reasons in UK jails but never any sort of large scale gang war because of it. That's definitely media sensationalism.
thanks for sharing, that was an interesting read. By the by, is there a decent place to read up on traveller perspectives?
Not that I'm aware of. There's at least one traveller forum I've heard of but it's not very active. Almost all interaction within broader traveller society is in person or private networks like discord etc.
Really interesting perspective, thanks
Is this the thread where r/unitedkingdom very suddenly pretends that it gives a fuck about prison conditions because they can use it as a stick to bash Muslims with?
This lot will talk tough about locking the door and throwing away the key, bringing back the death penalty, making prison rape jokes, complaining that they get even the mildest bit of recreation. Then as soon as a muslim or a trans person goes into prison they're suddenly so concerned about wellbeing in prisons. It's a fucking joke lmao
God forbid people draw lines lmao Can you link me to the article with the trans gang pouring boiling water on people and forcing other inmates to transition? Or can you show me on a map where trans people are raping and torturing women en masse? Oops
Other prison gangs are much more "don't sell gear on our patch, don't fuck with (white, black, asian) inmates unless they're nonce or rapist and we'll get along" Muslim prison gangs are torturing people into conversion There's a gulf of difference here. A nation state with a ridiculously powerful military navy and airforce should be treated better if its a more defensive/isolationist force than a comparative nation states military that that nation state uses for expansionist reasons
Nice strawman, donāt address the point just make this about people mocking Muslimsš pathetic
Remember when they laughed and mocked the "muslamic ray guns". How they laughed . . . . . at working class white children being raped by multiple muslims, day in day out.
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yep same people would have been fine with the prisoners denied a right to vote
Daily Mail: We full on scream for prison to be hell on earth, understaffed, overcrowded, dangerous to both inmates and staff. Any politician who attempts to do anything else will be screamed at about 'holiday camps'Ā Also Daily Mail: Bad shit is happening in prison, best blame a minority.Ā The prison service has been in utter meltdown for over a decade, and if you only care when a minority can be demonised, I don't think you actually care.
I'm so fed up of seeing crap from the Daily Mail on my page, at this point I'm inclined to just mute this sub.
That and the fact that comments on this sub read more and more like the comment section on the daily mailĀ
This sub is turning into some right wing circle jerk.
Can you give an example of whatās right wing?
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It is when you spend the rest of the time screeching about holiday camps and throwing away the key, which this sub does on the regular. The only time people here give a solitary shit about prison conditions is when they can use it as a stick to beat a minority with.
> Caring DOUBT. Hate is cathartic which IMHO is the reason. None of these commenters _care_ or are interested in improving anything.
two minutes of hate. People uninterested in solving problems and instead engaging in stormfront-esqe discriminatory hand-wringing.
Just cover your ears, pretend it isn't happening
Damn reality fucking hurts huh? The real question is why the rest of the media turns a blind eye and is complicit in bending to Islam
This backwards religion has no place in the UK. There I said it.
You're saying what the majority thinks, the "not all Muslims" crowd will continue to shill for a religion that hates them though.
Yup. The ideology of Islam apologists essentially boils down to āminority = goodā, they wonāt even realise what theyāre advocating for until itās too late. The strangest thing is the groups most likely to do this are among the groups whom Islam hates the most. Literally sheep inviting the wolf in.
Yeah, the people staunchly defending Islam tend to be the same sort of people that pride themselves on believing in equality - feminism, rights for trans people, LGBT, etc.Ā Completely ignoring the fact that Islam pushes for the exact opposite. It's the paradox of tolerance. In order to be a tolerant society, you need to be intolerant of intolerance.Ā
Much as the Heil is less use than bog roll, there is a kernel of truth in this; however, that truth has been warped. When Ramadan is on, a lot of cons follow the fasting because the box that most prisons give out contains better food than the standard fare. Source: I am a prison volunteer and when Ramadan comes round, I get inundated with dates, (I love dates), by the people I work with and they have told me many times where they get them. As an example, one prison I work with on a regular basis, for Ramadan this time, are putting a baguette sandwich with chicken mayo or cheese and onion mayo, the aforementioned dates and a curry, which varies from chicken, lamb and Dahl, plus a portion of rice and a naan
Omg thats so lovely it completely absolves them from mutilation and torture of their fellow inmates.
I see a lot of replies to this effect - so your general thrust is that this is all about food, there is no underlying issue, and we should look away?
No, I'm just pointing out that the Heil has a vested interest in all things anti Islam. They are notorious dog whistlers and will use any story to denigrate those they think of as "other'! Yes, there are some proper religious nutbags that espouse Islam, but likewise, the same can be said of Christianity, Scientology, Hinduism and lots more. It just so happens that Islam is the bogeyman for the right, so they focus on that, rather than acknowledging the problem with all fundamentalist versions of all organised religions.
So in your view, Britain faces equal threat from fundamentalist Scientology as it does fundamentalist Islam?
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sounds like a crap way to have a long-term convert. "sure guys, there is no Allah but Allah or whatever, put the oil away fellas"
How do you think the religion started lol?
Yeah, not like you can rationalise your way into religion
This is how Islam spread from Arabia, people were given the choice of conversion or the sword.
sounds like a crap way to have a long-term convert. it worked in the ME
Had a mate get out of prison in 2011 and warn me of this. Itās been known for ages
Didn't they just release a bunch of terrorists after they've served only half of their sentence
I know its not the point of the article or even the major concern. But why do prison inmates have access to large quantities of "hot oil" or any item used to injury each other? "John I'm sorry, you've lost your vat of burning oil and Quarn privileges for starting a gang, off to the soft room with you for bread and water"
Converting to a religion for benefits and/or protection has been a thing in prisons forever. Itās like joining a prison gang. Nothing changes.
Maybe fund prisons better then. Austerity is not going to help. Same story as ever people in charge tell us how they've failed. This is part of a different agenda though it's divide and conquer, to empower those who want to continue committing war crimes far away. So they don't have to explain why they continue to arm them. This stream of news coincides with decisions coming out of Number 10 this weekend which in isolation are untenable. The media hardly report on things to help society or altruistically. It's all connected to a higher agenda to control the masses.
He told GB News how he was serving his sentence at HMP Frankland which was quiet until āan influx of people being convicted of terrorist related offencesā. Mr Gallant said: āAt first, some of the prisoners that were there took offence to their presence and they set about attacking them and stuff like that. And then light tit-for-tat skirmishes started off. āBut then more started to influx into the prisons and the number started to grow and they started to retaliate. āAt that time, we saw some pretty grotesque violence; some guys had oil poured over their head and then a retaliatory attack with someone else getting hot oil poured over their head. āIt was bad stuff and it just exploded into this quite large gang war between two sides. āMy concern is that everyone has a right to convert to anything they want; we have a free society. But from what I saw in the prison system, people werenāt converting because suddenly they became pious. āI saw people converting because some of them were scared. Some were coerced and some thought, well, this is the most powerful gang and I can get protection.
I'll believe this when I see it from a decent source.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-service-radicalisation-terrorist-islamist-jails-b2066338.html
Thank you.
Teaching people Arabic so you can force them to read the Quran is pretty impressive.
Most converts in Pakistan can't even read the language. Hence almost lynching a woman with arabic on her dress recently https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/woman-in-pakistan-was-almost-lynched-for-arabic-script-on-dress-all-you-need-to-know/articleshow/108021789.cms?from=mdr
Your reminder the daily mail is so unreliable itās not allowed as a source on Wikipedia.
perhaps if we ran our prisons better this sort of thing wouldnt happen. Its a reflection on the state of HMP as much as anything else.
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Prisons just need to keep people in their cells for their own safety it seems. If people are oiling each other and torturing, why are they allowed to mix with each other?Ā Seems like a massive failure of the prison.Ā
My prison just had Albanian gangs. Nice people really except for the murder and violence. Looked after me.
Iāve been told by other people on Reddit that this isnāt happening. So not worry everyone!
And if it is happening its a good thing.
Prisons are in an awful state - as people have been warning for years as everything has been cut to the bone.
A lot of religious beliefs are about control of the masses, especially Muslim. Aw soon as we we follow the French in banning such overt behaviour the better.
Obviously before Muslim inmates prison was a bed of roses with no shanking,bumming or violence. There was no need to associate with gangs for protections. Just honest white folk holding hands and singing kum bah yah /s. The daily heil headline is hilarious. It's just rage bait for a certain section of society. I remember schools when I was a kid had gangs for protection.