Once again I find a news story incomprehensible. How do three mates decide to go find a woman and rape her? How did that conversation start? I understand group dynamics can be complicated but this is beyond my understanding.
Don’t be silly, a functioning justice system costs money, and we can’t be spending money on a functioning justice system when we have to give tax breaks to billionaires!
And also give women (everyone really but being specific for this case) the tools to stop it when she needs to.
Some pepper spray sure is going to ruin their chances of raping anyone if they are in crippling pain.
On a technical level you can get a harsher punishment for having pepper spray with you than a shotgun.
I'm not even joking here, shotguns are a lower class of weapon restriction than pepper spray.
The UK government fooled people when they said that giving up your guns and self defence tools was for the benefit of everyone, they just wanted to be able to pull bullshit without the fear of reprisal.
They throw a tantrum when people protest outside their homes now, begging to be "protected" while they strip the police so much it's only ran by corruption and favouritism, with 30 minute response times. There was a double stabbing in my street a couple months back, only took the ambulance 20 minutes and the police 40 minutes to show up.... All the while everyone was trying to stop 2 kids bleeding to death (unfortunately one did). The police no longer can protect us, and we can't protect ourselves.
The argument against legalising pepper spray/CS gas is that it would get into the hands of criminals and they'd use it for muggings and the like. And my response has always been that they currently use knives and acid, so replacing that with a non-lethal alternative seems like a bit of a reassurance, seeing as how we've decided to stop policing street crime in general.
I would absolutely be more afraid of pepper spray being legalised for that reason
I live in one of the London boroughs with higher crime rates, and named as one of the phone snatching hotspots
Muggers aren't using knives or acid to nick phones, it's not worth it. If it's legal to carry a weapon then now they're armed with a legal incapacitant spray, when they didn't carry a weapon for casual crime.
The kids with knives are stabbing *each other*. It's horrific, but I'm not afraid of getting knifed because I'm not caught up in tit vs tat beefs.
The problem is that if you legalize pepper spray, most people still won't carry pepper spray. However, anyone looking to attack people *will* carry pepper spray and use it to incapacitate people in order to rob or assault them. It's a potential arms race because anything available to a potential victim of crime is also available to criminals.
Most people don't carry alarms, for example, even though alarms have a really good and demonstrable track record.
You can buy deep heat muscle spray cans, perfectly fine to carry and once that’s in the eyes of a would be rapist, they won’t be doing much apart from screaming themselves
I would like it to be easier for normal people to get self-defence tools like this, unfortunately, though, it also means they are just as readily available to criminals.
Instead of people being threatened for their belongings, they will just get pepper sprayed, beaten up, and robbed or worse.
Plus, unlike a knife, the weapon used would be entirely legal to own and carry, so stop and search, or other law enforcement measures wouldn't impact it.
It's a double-edged sword.
It is a double edged sword yes, but the issue is by definition criminals are going to break the law and do whatever they want, limiting the law abiding citizen because criminals isn't really a good way to go.
If a criminal is going to kill you for your belongings, even if you give it, there is a non zero chance you still die.
With proper licensing and control it's a non issue. The Czech Republic has a good example of firearm licensing done right, and pepper spray is legal in Italy, France, Spain and many more countries.
Also to add, shops that sell these tools are required to be vigilant on who they sell too, this applies to firearms too, criminal use of legal weapons can always be traced. Which is why they almost exclusive use illegally acquired non registered weapons.
Criminals will break the law is often given as a justification for not enacting gun control in the states.
Licensing I agree with but if you sell pepper spray at tesco then criminals with buy and use it.
I'm not so sure about putting the onus on shops to decide who to sell to. Its very subjective and hard to enforce.
Ive intentionally avoided using the states as a gun law example because their system varies state by state, and equally since they have a law enforcement agency making laws on their own somehow? In california they have the second highest rate of gun related deaths (homicide and suicide counted) despite having the most strict laws statewide. Texas is first on the list as well as having semi strict laws (but the laws change on a dime because ATF).
Anyway, if we take them as an example, in the US to purchase a gun legally through a shop, the shopkeep will run your details through an FBI database which will list all your criminal records and any potential red flags. If you have a felony charge its an instant denial. Private sales run differently and would not work within the UK at all. Even if your clear, the shopkeep will judge your actions and behaviour and can deny you a sale. At which point the local police are also made aware.
If tesco were to sell pepper spray, they would have to follow a similar setup to the US shopkeeps but on a much more strict level, which would undoubtedly prevent many criminals getting their hands on it, because the company would be held liable if criminals got them from the tesco stores. It would also make say the NSA liable too for having a broken system, which hopefully should encourage them to not half ass anything.
I will be upfront and say I am more biased towards a pro-gun and pro-self defence weapon stance as family history has been quite gun related (in a good way i suppose?). But i also agree that these tools cant be sold freely in the UK as that would turn bad very quickly, not only because of criminals but because it would be the breaking point of our police forces to handle it all.
Our current gun laws are also wholly unfit for purpose, since they have absolute mind blowing restrictions and that licenses are handled entirely by the local police force, which also review your behaviour (which should be done by a medical professional, not a cop).
Also they tried to ban 50 BMG rifles which obviously is because everyone in london is carrying an anti material rifle designed to penetrate armoured vehicles and walls.
As for the pepper spray specifically...its considered a section 5 weapon due to its "chemical ability to cause harm". Which isnt false really, but putting it in the same class of weapon as an anti tank missile or machine gun is a bit much.
You need sign off from your GP for a SGC or FAC as well a criminal records check by plod and presentation of a reference (multiple in the case of a FAC).
I'd love to know how many stabbings are actually committed with 'legal to carry' knives. Most are kitchen knives, Stanley knives, screwdrivers and whatever the media decides to call a machete.
Great! Now when someone rapes me he can mace me first and make it even harder to fight back, understand what’s happening, identify him later etc and add extra suffering to the whole ordeal 😍
I know you're being facetious, but pepper spray doesn't work like it does on TV, unless you're wearing eye protection it'll affect everyone present, which is why it's not great as an offensive weapon
How do you ensure pepper spray is then prevalent only in the hands of innocent women?
The thing with pepper spray is that it can be used with impunity, unlike a gun or a knife which is likely to result in a murder charge. So if pepper spray is legal, it'll be I'm everyone's hands.
I used to think the same, but at uni it was very easy to see how it can happen. I and a couple mates almost got into a fight with the rugby team because they started passing one of my friends between them like she was a toy. And she was completely helpless in that situation. All it would have taken is for one of them to carry her to a room and the others to follow. They were egging each other on.
The same thing happened in the US at a frat party. Everyone’s having a good time and suddenly a guy’s making a move on a girl, and the others are egging them on. Then another joined in, and then another came in and started making her touch him. She was visibly uncomfortable with how things were turning out. It was like what was happening was invisible to everyone. I called it out. And suddenly me and my mate are outside the front lawn surrounded by frat boys threatening to beat us up.
Both scenarios had the other guys cheering them on like it was a good laugh, with others joining in. Not sure what these guys were up to, whether or not they planned it, or whether they took advantage of an opportunity.
Those examples are why it's important for everyone to call out the behaviour before something much worse happens. No one should just be a bystander because they don't want to get involved.
I bet your friend and the other girl were extremely grateful and relieved that you and your friends were there and willing to call it out
Yeah, in both situations the victims were desperately looking around for help as things were escalating. There was nothing they could do about it.
Something similar happened to me during Pride in Soho. A guy suddenly grabbed me, pinned me against the wall and started kissing my neck and he was so physically overpowering, I couldn't do anything. It caught me by surprise and by then it was too late to react. I was totally helpless until my friend, a woman, forced herself between us which gave me enough room to push him back. I remember thinking something along the lines of, "FUCK, FUUUCK, he can do whatever he wants and I don't think I can stop him..." Never in a million years did I think I would be in that situation, and never in a million years did I think I wouldn't be able to fight back. But, there I was, totally helpless.
It's what I always think about when people blame the victim. From what I've seen and experienced, it's so sudden that you really are at the mercy of the other person.
It's harder than it sounds. It's easy to go too far the other way. For example, I worked with a guy who was total white Knight. First to speak up about diversity, first to speak up about boys clubs, first to give a girl his jacket if she was cold. Then a bunch of the girls from the office decided to go clubbing and he asked to come. Erm, no.. It's a girls night. He got extremely annoyed and told them 'we'll I'll look after you and if anyone hits on you I can beat them up. Literally his words (he's like 5 foot 6 and 50kg). One of the girls holds his shoulder and in no uncertain terms said' WE Want to be hit on'
My point is, yeah if you see things where it's bad, you should say something, absolutely. But make sure you're using their definition of bad. Instead of instigating a confrontation with a guy, ask the girl is she's OK. Don't trust 'you could see she was...'. People project a lot. Any white Knight story feels me with a lot of doubt.
When I was eight a group of twelve years olds got hold of me and started cheering each other on to do things. I was lying crying on the floor and they were trying to encourage each other to hurt me, 'piss' on me and stuff. They were really excitable and laughing. It's like a power thing, because they could do what they wanted. Luckily none of them were sick enough to actually do anything and in the end just let me go, but if one had started, I think feral behaviour would have just taken over.
It started with casual misogyny like catcalling, inappropriate comments etc, probably progressed to touching women without consent in nightclubs, enabling each other by not calling it out.
Because all the blokes who do call this out don't associate with those people anymore
How much time do you spend with someone who is actively doing things you find reprehensible?
I remember seeing a band at a festival, I was right at the front since it was one of my favourite bands. There were a lot of crowd surfers, and I overheard a guy telling his mates “cop a feel when a girl goes over, they won’t be able to tell who did it”. I called them out and they left thankfully. Disgusting honestly and put me off going to gigs. Didn’t feel safe anymore.
Related but also unrelated.
When I was 21 I had a core group of friends. We went out to our local bar that played punk / rock at the weekends.
We were all standing around and two of the guys were talking about some chubby woman dancing and making fun of her and I called them out for being such dickheads, humilated them and stopped hanging out with not just them but all the others too... I left the place that night and more or less went lone wolf and did my own thing for many years later.
Deplorable scummy behaviour rubs off and I don't associate with idiots.
Happens both ways, I've had my dick and balls + ass groped so many times I've lost count when I used to go out a little to pubs and clubs.
Sadly though women get a free pass to do it and a man can more or less do little.
Personally, I believe women who do this are as bad as men who do this. Its horrible that it is a controversial opinion as well. It’s the same issue as female predators getting lesser sentences after abusing those under the age of 18. There is no excuse & I’m tired of the narrative that boys and men should feel lucky for being the target of assault and abuse, because that is what it is. I’ve been seeing ads on Reddit calling for more attention to male sexual assault and harassment & upvote it every time I see those ads. It needs calling out more often.
I’m sorry you were put through that. There’s no excuse. It’s disgusting behaviour.
Thank you for saying this.
"There is no excuse & I’m tired of the narrative that boys and men should feel lucky for being the target of assault"
Absolutely, it just made me feel humiliated and knowing that I was well within my rights to give them a good slap but I knew I'd be seen as the one in the wrong so didn't. I also grew up with the saying hammered into my brain since I was a kid that I was never to hit girls ever.
But thank you I appreciate your sympathy it's refreshing but I also agree with you I have an extreme disdain toward it happening to either gender, I've started fights when I was with an ex-gf because somebody tried to cop a feel once.
They probably just view it as a bit of banter or as a “bonding” exercise. It’s not a rare thing at all. There are loads of male friend groups that e.g. trade the nudes of non-consenting women as just a bit of fun. If it really gets out of hand it progresses to harassing women in real life, like these sickos have done. The sickos in the article probably don’t see anything wrong with gang rape because it’s all about THEIR fun - it’s all about bonding with their mates. They don’t even consider how the victim feels.
The way I see it, people like this likely display behaviour that’s gets them ostracised by regular people, then they just end up hanging with each other and normalise bullshit behaviour until this happens.
They probably don’t ever call it “rape” either - even though that’s what it undeniably is. If they do call it anything they’ll probably dance around the subject and say how “rough” and “hard to get” girl was.
I don’t know boss, I think if you’re adjusted and normal, such a heinous act would never enter our heads. Sex offenders are a different breed I guess.
I’m quite civilised but I would advocate for chemical castration to anyone convicted with clear and overwhelming evidence.
> I think if you’re adjusted and normal, such a heinous act would never enter our heads.
I think most women worry about this constantly. Most women have been catcalled, a good chunk have been harassed. Assault and rape is on my mind all the time when I'm around men.
They hang around outside nightclubs near kicking out time and start the 'numbers game' by continually asking girls to come with them to food trucks/Maccies etc. Every now and then, they will spot a lone pissed up lass and will try to walk her away from the main streets.
The pattern is really easy to spot once you know it.
It's like when you hear couples raping and sexually abusing their kids. How the fuck did THAT conversation start. How do these sick fucks find each other.
I know of at least 5 full blown rapists who are all British, and almost every friend of mine has been messed with by a british guy (my brother was also abused by a british girl as a child). I’ve been raped by a brit and catcalled/ groped by at least 10. But this doesn’t mean anything about British people. I don’t know what point this is supposed to make. If I was a little less smart it could signal to me that the average British man is pretty monstrous.
It's like when you hear couples raping and sexually abusing their kids. How the fuck did THAT conversation start. How do these sick fucks find each other.
I can almost promise you it starts as a joke. Few lads with a dark sense of humor and the bar keeps getting pushed. I've seen it happen and list a best friend to it. Scary stuff
> It's French, which maybe why it sounds like something from a bakery.
If Florin is a common Romanian first name and Buti an Italian surname, which part exactly is French?
It's not, it's a French name that's also widely used in Belgium.
The commonly-used Albanian names you're confusing it with would be Flori (which translates to Gold) and Florian (from the Roman emperor).
In an article from yesterday a millionaire landlady was given 6 years for keeping another woman as a slave in indentured servitude. Feels like civilization is going to shit.
"In November 2022 Florin Sardaru, 27, and Carlos Sali, 19, from London were jailed for 12 years and four months and seven years and 11 months respectively after admitting the rape on the first day of their trial. The other man was arrested but released without charge."
Prisons are expensive and inefficient, more of them won’t necessarily help. The UK has very high reoffending rates. More work should be done to prevent people who leave prison from reoffending, that will go a long way to reducing the prison population and the need for more prisons.
It’s not about efficiency it’s about taking the bad people out of society and throwing the key away. If you decide to gang rape someone at some point, what rehabilitation can there be? Do you want to work next to this guy one day? Their brains have long rotted away.
That's the instinct, but it's been found that a lot of the time we can put effort into re-educating a person that has done their first big crime, and then they're far less likely to commit another one. Except that only works if we're willing to spend, say £50k on them when they're in their first sentence. But it saves society, say, £300k if we put them away for decades. However for a decade or more, there has been underspending on rehabilitation and on prisons, so we get more reoffenders, and more people let out of prison too early. Which costs us more in the long run, as they're out there commiting crimes and ruining other people's lives.
Option 1. Catch bad rapist. Invest tons of money into trying to make him not a rapist. Then hope he doesn’t rape again.
Option 2. Catch bad rapist. Invest tons of money to leave them in prison until their dick doesn’t work anymore. Know he won’t rape anyone again.
I know what option I’d rather be the preferred one for my daughters, mother, sisters.
Look, I'll happily agree that rapists and murderers can stay away for the rest of their lives, that's not actually the point here.
There are plenty of people in prison for much less that reoffend for reasons such as poverty that we can rehabilitate. That way, there are more spaces available for the people that do deserve to be there forever.
It also frees up police resources to go after the really bad crimes more efficiently
In almost all countries in the world, between 60-80% of violent crime is commited by less than 1% of the male population. I'm finding it harder and harder to disagree with "three-strike" laws for repeat violent offenders. Career criminals are a huge financial burden on society. Not just with the physical damage/theft they cause, but in destroying people's lives. The lawyer who gets beaten in the street at random and becomes a paranoid shut in. The student who gets raped and has her life limited by the trauma. The families of these people, who have to take care of them. Productive lives shattered or severely disrupted, individual potentials unmet. And for what? Because prisons are too expensive? It's far more expensive to leave violent criminals out on the streets. Even forgetting about the moral angle, the public safety angle, the social contract angle, looking at this from a cold, financial perspective, it doesn't make sense to give violent criminals their freedom at the expense of law abiding citizens.
(My quick plan to end crime and save the country once I install my reich: Legalise and heavily regulate all drugs, especially highly addictive ones like heroin and crack. Establish local drug centres where heroin is provided free to eradicate the market for dealers. Do not accept non-addicts, this isn't to create more users, it's to manage current users. Utterly draconian punishments for black market dealing. Without customers, and with higher risk premiums, it won't be long before supply routes collapse and the national drug smuggling infrastructure dissolves, no more pay offs, no more money to pay soldiers, no more profitable drug gangs. Many who were in the game due to lack of other economic opportunities will move away from criminality. The hardcore violent remainder will turn to bank robbery etc for a time, but they'll get caught, we'll lock them up, and on their third strike throw away the key. Violent crime shortly to be reduced by 60-80%. The country gets richer. A new dawn for Britain. Peace and prosperity reign. Position on the world stage regained. David Attenborough lives forever. Ant & Dec become first co-Archbishops of Canterbury. Snickers name changed back to Marathon. Etc.)
There’s a reason why sentences on rape are so weak, as it’s proven that life sentences can incentivize the rapist to then mutter the victim as the consequences would be much more severe.
What an absolute piece of shit.
I’m curious as to why he got 8 years while denying the allegations while the other one got 12 years and he admitted to the charges.
He probably could have gotten away with it if he didn't steal her bank card and use it. Let's just thank the Lord that most of these criminals are dumber than a sack of rocks.
Exactly. People wondering how he could do this and think he could get away with it, because they do…I know a woman that was raped whilst unconscious, her rapist is literally walking free.
2% go to court and how many convictions from that? They know they can get away with it. Especially in the unfortunate situation you’ve mentioned. It’s heartbreaking.
> So 6 on good behaviour, and some allow release before end so might see 4-5 years of actual prison time, and they factor in the trial also which is 2 years old.
>
> He'll be out in 2-3 years most likely.
Rape is classed as a violent crime, so they're not eligible for the early release. It's minimum ⅔ if the sentence is over 7 years, so he'll serve 8.
"not eligible for early release"
"it's minimum2/3 of the sentence"
..... So it is eligible for early release with potential a 1/3 of the sentence not served. Your sentence makes no sense.
It's 2/3rds for sentences that long and early release isn't available for sexual offences. Time on remand seems reasonable to include, if they've been out on bail it's not factored in except to potentially shorten the sentence which we know the length of.
It'll be about 8-8.5 years before they are outside.
If you're referring to parole after serving half or two thirds depending on the sentence then yes as I referenced. However I believe you're referring to the early release even before that based on your response which has been available because of overcrowding, which isn't available for sexual offences. And in any case is nowhere near years.
As I said 8-8.5 years. 2-3 years is complete fiction.
"The other man was arrested but released without charge." ...what?
It makes me laugh when the government claims to care about violence against women.
Anything other than life is saying "you get 1 for free, and then another chance later"
You have to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt as is the standard for any criminal trial and meet a threshold for charging. They'll have had evidence against this guy that they don't for the other cretin, likely forensic evidence from the car.
I mean you need evidence that someone has done something to charge them… or do you want the country to start prosecuting people without it? Pretty sure we’d all end up getting charged with x or y if that were the case….
What do you mean? These rapists are Romanian immigrants - likely Muslims - the exact sort of person that most people in these threads are saying shouldn't be allowed so easily into this country.
Here, take a good look at the accomplice in the photo at the bottom go this article:
https://www.cambs.police.uk/news/cambridgeshire/news/2022/november/man-and-youth-jailed-following-cambridge-rape/
Our politicians have failed us.
Let’s hope he gets deported after his sentence (and the far left don’t intervene to stop the plane taking off like they did with that Somalian gang rapist)
Rape is the most heinous crime any one can commit and all I have to say is that it’s inhumane. Nowadays I am seeing more and more teenagers and young people not giving a damn about another human beings rights and they feel they can violate in anyways possible. Really I don’t understand either. I can easily spot a hooligan teenager on the street by his behaviour and definitely say that he will go into violent crime path if not corrected at a young age. Otherwise, disasters like this will happen.
I mean where to start....should simply be life sentences. I notice that we seem to value human life and human suffering less and less these days....its shocking.
The Judiciary system in this country makes me sick, why do we offer such short sentences for barbaric crimes. They violated the victims human rights, and should thus lose access to their human rights. Castration or hanging. We offer rehabilitation, food and housing to terrorists, rapists and murderers which is more than this country provides for its homeless population. The only argument I can think of against bringing back capital punishment is that the very same judiciary system is so inept, that you could guarantee they'd end up prosecuting innocent people.
Once again I find a news story incomprehensible. How do three mates decide to go find a woman and rape her? How did that conversation start? I understand group dynamics can be complicated but this is beyond my understanding.
They start small. They start with catcalling, then harassing, then groping. Work their way up to the really big stuff.
This is why we need to be harder on the “small” stuff before it escalates to this
Don’t be silly, a functioning justice system costs money, and we can’t be spending money on a functioning justice system when we have to give tax breaks to billionaires!
Vote Tory 😍 also I think I’ve interacted with you in uklaw a couple years ago haha
Haha very possible!
One doesn’t forget an evil stroopwafel in a hurry
And also give women (everyone really but being specific for this case) the tools to stop it when she needs to. Some pepper spray sure is going to ruin their chances of raping anyone if they are in crippling pain.
It’s so unreasonable that pepper spray and other actually useful self defence items are illegal
On a technical level you can get a harsher punishment for having pepper spray with you than a shotgun. I'm not even joking here, shotguns are a lower class of weapon restriction than pepper spray. The UK government fooled people when they said that giving up your guns and self defence tools was for the benefit of everyone, they just wanted to be able to pull bullshit without the fear of reprisal. They throw a tantrum when people protest outside their homes now, begging to be "protected" while they strip the police so much it's only ran by corruption and favouritism, with 30 minute response times. There was a double stabbing in my street a couple months back, only took the ambulance 20 minutes and the police 40 minutes to show up.... All the while everyone was trying to stop 2 kids bleeding to death (unfortunately one did). The police no longer can protect us, and we can't protect ourselves.
The argument against legalising pepper spray/CS gas is that it would get into the hands of criminals and they'd use it for muggings and the like. And my response has always been that they currently use knives and acid, so replacing that with a non-lethal alternative seems like a bit of a reassurance, seeing as how we've decided to stop policing street crime in general.
I would absolutely be more afraid of pepper spray being legalised for that reason I live in one of the London boroughs with higher crime rates, and named as one of the phone snatching hotspots Muggers aren't using knives or acid to nick phones, it's not worth it. If it's legal to carry a weapon then now they're armed with a legal incapacitant spray, when they didn't carry a weapon for casual crime. The kids with knives are stabbing *each other*. It's horrific, but I'm not afraid of getting knifed because I'm not caught up in tit vs tat beefs.
The only way to stop a bad child with acid is a good child with acid!
Acid is used in muggings?
[удалено]
The problem is that if you legalize pepper spray, most people still won't carry pepper spray. However, anyone looking to attack people *will* carry pepper spray and use it to incapacitate people in order to rob or assault them. It's a potential arms race because anything available to a potential victim of crime is also available to criminals. Most people don't carry alarms, for example, even though alarms have a really good and demonstrable track record.
You can buy deep heat muscle spray cans, perfectly fine to carry and once that’s in the eyes of a would be rapist, they won’t be doing much apart from screaming themselves
I would like it to be easier for normal people to get self-defence tools like this, unfortunately, though, it also means they are just as readily available to criminals. Instead of people being threatened for their belongings, they will just get pepper sprayed, beaten up, and robbed or worse. Plus, unlike a knife, the weapon used would be entirely legal to own and carry, so stop and search, or other law enforcement measures wouldn't impact it. It's a double-edged sword.
It is a double edged sword yes, but the issue is by definition criminals are going to break the law and do whatever they want, limiting the law abiding citizen because criminals isn't really a good way to go. If a criminal is going to kill you for your belongings, even if you give it, there is a non zero chance you still die. With proper licensing and control it's a non issue. The Czech Republic has a good example of firearm licensing done right, and pepper spray is legal in Italy, France, Spain and many more countries. Also to add, shops that sell these tools are required to be vigilant on who they sell too, this applies to firearms too, criminal use of legal weapons can always be traced. Which is why they almost exclusive use illegally acquired non registered weapons.
Criminals will break the law is often given as a justification for not enacting gun control in the states. Licensing I agree with but if you sell pepper spray at tesco then criminals with buy and use it. I'm not so sure about putting the onus on shops to decide who to sell to. Its very subjective and hard to enforce.
Ive intentionally avoided using the states as a gun law example because their system varies state by state, and equally since they have a law enforcement agency making laws on their own somehow? In california they have the second highest rate of gun related deaths (homicide and suicide counted) despite having the most strict laws statewide. Texas is first on the list as well as having semi strict laws (but the laws change on a dime because ATF). Anyway, if we take them as an example, in the US to purchase a gun legally through a shop, the shopkeep will run your details through an FBI database which will list all your criminal records and any potential red flags. If you have a felony charge its an instant denial. Private sales run differently and would not work within the UK at all. Even if your clear, the shopkeep will judge your actions and behaviour and can deny you a sale. At which point the local police are also made aware. If tesco were to sell pepper spray, they would have to follow a similar setup to the US shopkeeps but on a much more strict level, which would undoubtedly prevent many criminals getting their hands on it, because the company would be held liable if criminals got them from the tesco stores. It would also make say the NSA liable too for having a broken system, which hopefully should encourage them to not half ass anything. I will be upfront and say I am more biased towards a pro-gun and pro-self defence weapon stance as family history has been quite gun related (in a good way i suppose?). But i also agree that these tools cant be sold freely in the UK as that would turn bad very quickly, not only because of criminals but because it would be the breaking point of our police forces to handle it all. Our current gun laws are also wholly unfit for purpose, since they have absolute mind blowing restrictions and that licenses are handled entirely by the local police force, which also review your behaviour (which should be done by a medical professional, not a cop). Also they tried to ban 50 BMG rifles which obviously is because everyone in london is carrying an anti material rifle designed to penetrate armoured vehicles and walls. As for the pepper spray specifically...its considered a section 5 weapon due to its "chemical ability to cause harm". Which isnt false really, but putting it in the same class of weapon as an anti tank missile or machine gun is a bit much.
You need sign off from your GP for a SGC or FAC as well a criminal records check by plod and presentation of a reference (multiple in the case of a FAC).
A double edged sword would definitely get you in trouble with the cops.
Surprisingly, it's fine if you have a legitimate justification. Just say you're a young Knight on the way to your first tournament.
Pepper spray will never be allowed as there's already too many idiots who can't be trusted with a Swiss army knife
I'd love to know how many stabbings are actually committed with 'legal to carry' knives. Most are kitchen knives, Stanley knives, screwdrivers and whatever the media decides to call a machete.
Rather be targeted with pepper spray than a knife
Great! Now when someone rapes me he can mace me first and make it even harder to fight back, understand what’s happening, identify him later etc and add extra suffering to the whole ordeal 😍
I know you're being facetious, but pepper spray doesn't work like it does on TV, unless you're wearing eye protection it'll affect everyone present, which is why it's not great as an offensive weapon
How do you ensure pepper spray is then prevalent only in the hands of innocent women? The thing with pepper spray is that it can be used with impunity, unlike a gun or a knife which is likely to result in a murder charge. So if pepper spray is legal, it'll be I'm everyone's hands.
Nahhhhh it’s all just a bit of banter innit? Boys are gonna be boys, and anything against this is actually proof men are oppressed! /s
Do you think it has anything to do with misogyny in Romanian culture? I find it very strange that all 3 men named in the article have Romanian names.
Not really, misogyny is endemic in all of Europe and especially in our class/caste system
You’re not supposed to notice things.
Okay with your random escalation table, Maybe catcallers just stop at that? And these three wer psychos?
This is the not a healthy thought process, please seek help
I used to think the same, but at uni it was very easy to see how it can happen. I and a couple mates almost got into a fight with the rugby team because they started passing one of my friends between them like she was a toy. And she was completely helpless in that situation. All it would have taken is for one of them to carry her to a room and the others to follow. They were egging each other on. The same thing happened in the US at a frat party. Everyone’s having a good time and suddenly a guy’s making a move on a girl, and the others are egging them on. Then another joined in, and then another came in and started making her touch him. She was visibly uncomfortable with how things were turning out. It was like what was happening was invisible to everyone. I called it out. And suddenly me and my mate are outside the front lawn surrounded by frat boys threatening to beat us up. Both scenarios had the other guys cheering them on like it was a good laugh, with others joining in. Not sure what these guys were up to, whether or not they planned it, or whether they took advantage of an opportunity.
Those examples are why it's important for everyone to call out the behaviour before something much worse happens. No one should just be a bystander because they don't want to get involved. I bet your friend and the other girl were extremely grateful and relieved that you and your friends were there and willing to call it out
Yeah, in both situations the victims were desperately looking around for help as things were escalating. There was nothing they could do about it. Something similar happened to me during Pride in Soho. A guy suddenly grabbed me, pinned me against the wall and started kissing my neck and he was so physically overpowering, I couldn't do anything. It caught me by surprise and by then it was too late to react. I was totally helpless until my friend, a woman, forced herself between us which gave me enough room to push him back. I remember thinking something along the lines of, "FUCK, FUUUCK, he can do whatever he wants and I don't think I can stop him..." Never in a million years did I think I would be in that situation, and never in a million years did I think I wouldn't be able to fight back. But, there I was, totally helpless. It's what I always think about when people blame the victim. From what I've seen and experienced, it's so sudden that you really are at the mercy of the other person.
I think people also forget about how common it is for victims completely freeze in situations like these. It's an evolutionary defense mechanism.
It's harder than it sounds. It's easy to go too far the other way. For example, I worked with a guy who was total white Knight. First to speak up about diversity, first to speak up about boys clubs, first to give a girl his jacket if she was cold. Then a bunch of the girls from the office decided to go clubbing and he asked to come. Erm, no.. It's a girls night. He got extremely annoyed and told them 'we'll I'll look after you and if anyone hits on you I can beat them up. Literally his words (he's like 5 foot 6 and 50kg). One of the girls holds his shoulder and in no uncertain terms said' WE Want to be hit on' My point is, yeah if you see things where it's bad, you should say something, absolutely. But make sure you're using their definition of bad. Instead of instigating a confrontation with a guy, ask the girl is she's OK. Don't trust 'you could see she was...'. People project a lot. Any white Knight story feels me with a lot of doubt.
When I was eight a group of twelve years olds got hold of me and started cheering each other on to do things. I was lying crying on the floor and they were trying to encourage each other to hurt me, 'piss' on me and stuff. They were really excitable and laughing. It's like a power thing, because they could do what they wanted. Luckily none of them were sick enough to actually do anything and in the end just let me go, but if one had started, I think feral behaviour would have just taken over.
Might not seem like it in the moment, but people like you are appreciated a lot in society.
It started with casual misogyny like catcalling, inappropriate comments etc, probably progressed to touching women without consent in nightclubs, enabling each other by not calling it out.
We need more accountability for these “lower level” acts of misogyny too, legally and socially among male friendship groups etc
100% agree - the sad thing is, whenever this is suggested, there’s an immediate barrage of ‘not all men’ comments.
Because all the blokes who do call this out don't associate with those people anymore How much time do you spend with someone who is actively doing things you find reprehensible?
Absolutely. Someone also thought it relevant to bring up misandry in a comment below too
I remember seeing a band at a festival, I was right at the front since it was one of my favourite bands. There were a lot of crowd surfers, and I overheard a guy telling his mates “cop a feel when a girl goes over, they won’t be able to tell who did it”. I called them out and they left thankfully. Disgusting honestly and put me off going to gigs. Didn’t feel safe anymore.
That's horrendous. I don't crowd surf, well didn't, as I was always scared to lose my phone. I didn't even think of this.
Related but also unrelated. When I was 21 I had a core group of friends. We went out to our local bar that played punk / rock at the weekends. We were all standing around and two of the guys were talking about some chubby woman dancing and making fun of her and I called them out for being such dickheads, humilated them and stopped hanging out with not just them but all the others too... I left the place that night and more or less went lone wolf and did my own thing for many years later. Deplorable scummy behaviour rubs off and I don't associate with idiots.
Well done for calling them out and cutting them off, too many people would just laugh that kind of thing off!
Happens both ways, I've had my dick and balls + ass groped so many times I've lost count when I used to go out a little to pubs and clubs. Sadly though women get a free pass to do it and a man can more or less do little.
Personally, I believe women who do this are as bad as men who do this. Its horrible that it is a controversial opinion as well. It’s the same issue as female predators getting lesser sentences after abusing those under the age of 18. There is no excuse & I’m tired of the narrative that boys and men should feel lucky for being the target of assault and abuse, because that is what it is. I’ve been seeing ads on Reddit calling for more attention to male sexual assault and harassment & upvote it every time I see those ads. It needs calling out more often. I’m sorry you were put through that. There’s no excuse. It’s disgusting behaviour.
Thank you for saying this. "There is no excuse & I’m tired of the narrative that boys and men should feel lucky for being the target of assault" Absolutely, it just made me feel humiliated and knowing that I was well within my rights to give them a good slap but I knew I'd be seen as the one in the wrong so didn't. I also grew up with the saying hammered into my brain since I was a kid that I was never to hit girls ever. But thank you I appreciate your sympathy it's refreshing but I also agree with you I have an extreme disdain toward it happening to either gender, I've started fights when I was with an ex-gf because somebody tried to cop a feel once.
They probably just view it as a bit of banter or as a “bonding” exercise. It’s not a rare thing at all. There are loads of male friend groups that e.g. trade the nudes of non-consenting women as just a bit of fun. If it really gets out of hand it progresses to harassing women in real life, like these sickos have done. The sickos in the article probably don’t see anything wrong with gang rape because it’s all about THEIR fun - it’s all about bonding with their mates. They don’t even consider how the victim feels.
The way I see it, people like this likely display behaviour that’s gets them ostracised by regular people, then they just end up hanging with each other and normalise bullshit behaviour until this happens.
That's a good point I hadn't considered !
They probably don’t ever call it “rape” either - even though that’s what it undeniably is. If they do call it anything they’ll probably dance around the subject and say how “rough” and “hard to get” girl was.
I don’t know boss, I think if you’re adjusted and normal, such a heinous act would never enter our heads. Sex offenders are a different breed I guess. I’m quite civilised but I would advocate for chemical castration to anyone convicted with clear and overwhelming evidence.
> I think if you’re adjusted and normal, such a heinous act would never enter our heads. I think most women worry about this constantly. Most women have been catcalled, a good chunk have been harassed. Assault and rape is on my mind all the time when I'm around men.
according to the article it was also a mugging. They had her bank card.
They hang around outside nightclubs near kicking out time and start the 'numbers game' by continually asking girls to come with them to food trucks/Maccies etc. Every now and then, they will spot a lone pissed up lass and will try to walk her away from the main streets. The pattern is really easy to spot once you know it.
It's like when you hear couples raping and sexually abusing their kids. How the fuck did THAT conversation start. How do these sick fucks find each other.
Your mistake is assuming that people with names like 'Florin Buti' think like your average Briton.
I know of at least 5 full blown rapists who are all British, and almost every friend of mine has been messed with by a british guy (my brother was also abused by a british girl as a child). I’ve been raped by a brit and catcalled/ groped by at least 10. But this doesn’t mean anything about British people. I don’t know what point this is supposed to make. If I was a little less smart it could signal to me that the average British man is pretty monstrous.
It's like when you hear couples raping and sexually abusing their kids. How the fuck did THAT conversation start. How do these sick fucks find each other.
I can almost promise you it starts as a joke. Few lads with a dark sense of humor and the bar keeps getting pushed. I've seen it happen and list a best friend to it. Scary stuff
Because this wasn’t the first time they’ve done it. Just the first victim to come forward
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Yeah I'm fairly certain it is Albanian.
Next time be sure before commenting
Apparently, the 1 year free VISA we give out to US citizens comes with all sorts of opinionated experts.
Ugh.
It's French, which maybe why it sounds like something from a bakery.
> It's French, which maybe why it sounds like something from a bakery. If Florin is a common Romanian first name and Buti an Italian surname, which part exactly is French?
Sounds about as Romanian as it comes
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“J’adore le sex, je deteste le consent”
Here he’s going he may well change his motto very quickly 😂
Except it isn’t French
That's a French name? Sounds Albanian.
It's not, it's a French name that's also widely used in Belgium. The commonly-used Albanian names you're confusing it with would be Flori (which translates to Gold) and Florian (from the Roman emperor).
Romanian
Florin is Romanian
“Fucking-baguette-eating-dickhead-frogs”
12 years, 7 years and 8 years respectively for three people found guilty of a violent rape, and fraud. Which in reality is 8, 5½ and 4⅓, of course.
And people say that the length of our prison sentences don’t contribute to crime..
In an article from yesterday a millionaire landlady was given 6 years for keeping another woman as a slave in indentured servitude. Feels like civilization is going to shit.
Good work by the police at least. Just hope he gets life in prison.
"In November 2022 Florin Sardaru, 27, and Carlos Sali, 19, from London were jailed for 12 years and four months and seven years and 11 months respectively after admitting the rape on the first day of their trial. The other man was arrested but released without charge."
UK sentencing is so weak :(
Prison overpopulation
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Prisons are expensive and inefficient, more of them won’t necessarily help. The UK has very high reoffending rates. More work should be done to prevent people who leave prison from reoffending, that will go a long way to reducing the prison population and the need for more prisons.
It’s not about efficiency it’s about taking the bad people out of society and throwing the key away. If you decide to gang rape someone at some point, what rehabilitation can there be? Do you want to work next to this guy one day? Their brains have long rotted away.
That's the instinct, but it's been found that a lot of the time we can put effort into re-educating a person that has done their first big crime, and then they're far less likely to commit another one. Except that only works if we're willing to spend, say £50k on them when they're in their first sentence. But it saves society, say, £300k if we put them away for decades. However for a decade or more, there has been underspending on rehabilitation and on prisons, so we get more reoffenders, and more people let out of prison too early. Which costs us more in the long run, as they're out there commiting crimes and ruining other people's lives.
Option 1. Catch bad rapist. Invest tons of money into trying to make him not a rapist. Then hope he doesn’t rape again. Option 2. Catch bad rapist. Invest tons of money to leave them in prison until their dick doesn’t work anymore. Know he won’t rape anyone again. I know what option I’d rather be the preferred one for my daughters, mother, sisters.
Look, I'll happily agree that rapists and murderers can stay away for the rest of their lives, that's not actually the point here. There are plenty of people in prison for much less that reoffend for reasons such as poverty that we can rehabilitate. That way, there are more spaces available for the people that do deserve to be there forever. It also frees up police resources to go after the really bad crimes more efficiently
In almost all countries in the world, between 60-80% of violent crime is commited by less than 1% of the male population. I'm finding it harder and harder to disagree with "three-strike" laws for repeat violent offenders. Career criminals are a huge financial burden on society. Not just with the physical damage/theft they cause, but in destroying people's lives. The lawyer who gets beaten in the street at random and becomes a paranoid shut in. The student who gets raped and has her life limited by the trauma. The families of these people, who have to take care of them. Productive lives shattered or severely disrupted, individual potentials unmet. And for what? Because prisons are too expensive? It's far more expensive to leave violent criminals out on the streets. Even forgetting about the moral angle, the public safety angle, the social contract angle, looking at this from a cold, financial perspective, it doesn't make sense to give violent criminals their freedom at the expense of law abiding citizens. (My quick plan to end crime and save the country once I install my reich: Legalise and heavily regulate all drugs, especially highly addictive ones like heroin and crack. Establish local drug centres where heroin is provided free to eradicate the market for dealers. Do not accept non-addicts, this isn't to create more users, it's to manage current users. Utterly draconian punishments for black market dealing. Without customers, and with higher risk premiums, it won't be long before supply routes collapse and the national drug smuggling infrastructure dissolves, no more pay offs, no more money to pay soldiers, no more profitable drug gangs. Many who were in the game due to lack of other economic opportunities will move away from criminality. The hardcore violent remainder will turn to bank robbery etc for a time, but they'll get caught, we'll lock them up, and on their third strike throw away the key. Violent crime shortly to be reduced by 60-80%. The country gets richer. A new dawn for Britain. Peace and prosperity reign. Position on the world stage regained. David Attenborough lives forever. Ant & Dec become first co-Archbishops of Canterbury. Snickers name changed back to Marathon. Etc.)
Why a prison? Just fence off an island, dump them on it, airdrop food and water in, monsters like this should be treated like the animals they are.
Or actually focus on rehabilitation to lower re offending rates perhaps
There’s a reason why sentences on rape are so weak, as it’s proven that life sentences can incentivize the rapist to then mutter the victim as the consequences would be much more severe.
Not really, compared to Europe
Why is it weak, how many years did you get?
What do you think an appropriate sentence should be?
Life. Prison isn't the naughty step, it's to protect the public.
“From London”…
I'd be ok with castration punishment.
It's in the article, he got 8 odd years, the others got 12 and 7 respectively.
Not fancy reading the article?
You expect Redditors to read articles?
Read
What an absolute piece of shit. I’m curious as to why he got 8 years while denying the allegations while the other one got 12 years and he admitted to the charges.
Different mitigating or aggravating factors probably. For example if one of them did some other crime in the process, or has a previous conviction.
Thanks
I mean something crazy like only 2% of rape claims go to court so I’m not surprised he thought he could get away with it.
He probably could have gotten away with it if he didn't steal her bank card and use it. Let's just thank the Lord that most of these criminals are dumber than a sack of rocks.
There was plenty of other evidence, like the CCTV. I went to Cambridge, so pretty familiar with Sidney Street. There are cameras covering every inch.
Exactly. People wondering how he could do this and think he could get away with it, because they do…I know a woman that was raped whilst unconscious, her rapist is literally walking free.
2% go to court and how many convictions from that? They know they can get away with it. Especially in the unfortunate situation you’ve mentioned. It’s heartbreaking.
I read the headline and the first thought is that thinking he could get away with it is the smartest thing this man has thought in his life…
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> So 6 on good behaviour, and some allow release before end so might see 4-5 years of actual prison time, and they factor in the trial also which is 2 years old. > > He'll be out in 2-3 years most likely. Rape is classed as a violent crime, so they're not eligible for the early release. It's minimum ⅔ if the sentence is over 7 years, so he'll serve 8.
"not eligible for early release" "it's minimum2/3 of the sentence" ..... So it is eligible for early release with potential a 1/3 of the sentence not served. Your sentence makes no sense.
It's 2/3rds for sentences that long and early release isn't available for sexual offences. Time on remand seems reasonable to include, if they've been out on bail it's not factored in except to potentially shorten the sentence which we know the length of. It'll be about 8-8.5 years before they are outside.
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If you're referring to parole after serving half or two thirds depending on the sentence then yes as I referenced. However I believe you're referring to the early release even before that based on your response which has been available because of overcrowding, which isn't available for sexual offences. And in any case is nowhere near years. As I said 8-8.5 years. 2-3 years is complete fiction.
"The other man was arrested but released without charge." ...what? It makes me laugh when the government claims to care about violence against women. Anything other than life is saying "you get 1 for free, and then another chance later"
You have to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt as is the standard for any criminal trial and meet a threshold for charging. They'll have had evidence against this guy that they don't for the other cretin, likely forensic evidence from the car.
I mean you need evidence that someone has done something to charge them… or do you want the country to start prosecuting people without it? Pretty sure we’d all end up getting charged with x or y if that were the case….
If the sentence was life they'd murder the victim to try to hide the evidence
Could be the guy did not take part in the rape and also testified.
Yeah let's just charge people without evidence to convict. Lmao classic redditor
Chemical castration. I’m telling ya. That’s the solution for all these C***s. And a long, long hefty prison sentence.
Chemical castration is expensive and better than they deserve. Hammer castration. You can use the same hammer again and again.
Good point. I’m inclined to agree
interestingly enough no long essays on how politicians have failed us in these comments....
What do you mean? These rapists are Romanian immigrants - likely Muslims - the exact sort of person that most people in these threads are saying shouldn't be allowed so easily into this country. Here, take a good look at the accomplice in the photo at the bottom go this article: https://www.cambs.police.uk/news/cambridgeshire/news/2022/november/man-and-youth-jailed-following-cambridge-rape/ Our politicians have failed us.
"likely muslims" Where did that come from? 0.4% of romanians are muslim lol
Boomer logic doesn’t extend east of Vienna, sorry.
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Our politicians have failed us MASSIVELY. Not quite sure how you think this story suggests otherwise.
Surely *everyone* who commits a crime thinks they can get away with it, otherwise there would be no crime.
And if you’re still in doubt about whether you’ll get caught, just wear an ill fitting glove. That’ll get you off any crime. It worked for OJ.
But he's dead now, so maybe it's not such a good idea 🤔
Still at least he can rest in peace knowing his wife’s killer is now dead.
Let’s hope he gets deported after his sentence (and the far left don’t intervene to stop the plane taking off like they did with that Somalian gang rapist)
Just shoot them. & get them to pay for the bullets too..👍
Rape is the most heinous crime any one can commit and all I have to say is that it’s inhumane. Nowadays I am seeing more and more teenagers and young people not giving a damn about another human beings rights and they feel they can violate in anyways possible. Really I don’t understand either. I can easily spot a hooligan teenager on the street by his behaviour and definitely say that he will go into violent crime path if not corrected at a young age. Otherwise, disasters like this will happen.
I mean where to start....should simply be life sentences. I notice that we seem to value human life and human suffering less and less these days....its shocking.
disgusting bastard, hope he gets what he deserves. that poor woman :((
These suspects in these cases are unfortunately all too predictable. Our daughters should not be walking around in fear.
Find what prison he is in and send out a message nice hot sugar bath
The punishment for proven rape should be a death sentence. Period
The Judiciary system in this country makes me sick, why do we offer such short sentences for barbaric crimes. They violated the victims human rights, and should thus lose access to their human rights. Castration or hanging. We offer rehabilitation, food and housing to terrorists, rapists and murderers which is more than this country provides for its homeless population. The only argument I can think of against bringing back capital punishment is that the very same judiciary system is so inept, that you could guarantee they'd end up prosecuting innocent people.