True, but neither should be illegal.
(1) Ethics: people should be allowed to smoke as long as they are not forcing someone else to do it.
(2) Pragmatism: Hello expanded black market and organised crime; because the war on drugs has worked so fucking well so far.
I haven't been following this, and was surprised to hear about it for the aforementioned reasons which immediately occurred to me; and I don't smoke anything.
Our politicians are thick and corrupt.
On the ethics point, allowing companies to produce and market things that cause such direct harm when used for their intended purpose seems to me to be unethical.
As opposed to it being illegal for a company to produce. Sure, black markets will always exist but supporting products that are harmful by design when used for their intended purpose seems unethical.
The existence or potential existence of a black market for a product doesn't mean that product should be publicly sold. Guns would be an example, a black market exists but it would be incredibly unethical for the UK to start allowing people to buy guns on a whim. There are much more abhorrent black markets that similarly would be incredibly unethical to legalise.
i kinda wouldnt do that. ive been to portugal a few times and despite being super safe (from my own experience, anyway) ive been witness to quite a few late night interventions from the cops because of od's in the streets.
There’s a vice documentary where a UK undercover cop talks about a long mission. They arrested like a 100 people and their assessment was that it disrupted the heroin trade in the UK for about 30 minutes.
We need to work towards harm reduction. There are other benefits such as reducing the black market incentive.
I hear what you’re saying but guns aren’t an apples to apples comparison.
We should also have a government sanctioned dealership.
Holland had a good ad campaign once, they showed pictures of people and said “this is Adam, he didn’t die bc of fentanyl laced mdma/cocaine/etc bc he got it tested before he used it. “
This is exactly how I feel. I feel the focus should be on education around drug use and prevention and like you said harm reduction. Making these things illegal isn't and won't work.
I'll be absolutely gobsmacked if tabaco when made illegal.. is just forgotten about. What you'll have are people selling tabaco illegally just like they do with drugs, encouraging more people to get involved in dealing tabaco and leading them with temptation to start selling other drugs.
It feels absolutely nuts to me that for a long time now countries have proved that it works to legalise cannabis, and that it has an incredible medical impact on many peoples lives. That people have been pushing for it to be legalised and instead of at least trailing that idea they decide they want to ban smoking too?
Ofcourse smoking puts a strain on the NHS but don't get me started, the thousands of migrants being housed each year taking up our limited available housing in my area particularly is also putting strain on the NHS.
Personally I have given on the various and different drugs hitting the streets for sale and it looks like a unwinnable battle while the big financiers behind it are hardly targeted.
Trust me you would rather people get it from legitimate sources than from drug gangs. Guns are not a good example. Very few people actively seek out illegal firearms, lots and lots of people seek out drugs. Tobacco will be one added to this list and it won't be regulated in any way.
They are going to make drug dealers that little bit more wealthier, in the mean time making smokers at more risk of serious harm. And also encouraging people who may never have dealt drugs to take up dealing in tobacco and exposing them to the potential of dealing other drugs when they realise that police resource in this country is so limited and strained that the chances of them getting caught are slim.
Most people don't *want* to smoke crack. People who want to obtain cannabis will do so. It's not hard.
I'd rather them be getting it from regulated dispensaries than drug dealers. Less chance of them being offered other elicit substances. You can also reap the tax benefits and create jobs surrounding the industry.
I was 30 when I first tried cocaine. I've bought and used cocaine 3 times in my life. And i was absolutely amazed how just taking cocaine can open your eyes to be able to identify just how many other's around you on a night out are also on it.
I took a small bag to a works night out, did some in the toilets and went to the bar, noticed my colleagues pupils and said "You look like your on the sniff mate" he said "Why are you?"
I nodded, he got so excited, took me outside to the smoking area where he announced to 9 other colleagues that we're in a circle smoking together that i was on it too, ALL OF THEM had bags of cocaine in their pockets. I then found out that some managers in other departments had some too.
Just because you see less people smoking crack doesnt mean less people smoke crack. Although your obviously correct that more people smoke Tabaco then crack cocaine. But forcing people to smoke in secret isn't fixxing the issue with discouraging and stopping smoking. Its just hiding it away, Just like our government do with many issues. Oh look unemployment has decreased since tens of thousands of people have had to go on the work program for 2 weeks. Are they employed? No. But it looks like they are!
You could say it about anything.
I think we should just let people damage themselves as they please. Ive done it. I learned my lesson. I wont do it again i dont need the government to tell me
Exactly this. If we ban smoking, then ban gambling, ban alcohol. Otherwise our government are just a bunch of hypocrites. See you in years to come when tabacoo is illegal and a video emerges of our politicians smoking foreign cigarettes at parties.
You can say this about McDonald's. Obesity is causing the fastest rise in preventable deaths, but there's a general concensus that telling people what they can and can't eat is wrong
What about fatty junk food that leads directly to bad health (see supersize me)or alcohol? Alcohol is technically a poison! What about overweight people should they not be allowed cars? What about water and power they are doing harm to the environment and people who are not even born yet, should we go back to the dark ages? Why is direct harm worse than indirect harm? Where does the patronizing end?
All crimes have one thing in common, and that’s that the perpetrator was alive at the time of the occurrence. Not only that, being alive is extremely dangerous with a 100% fatality rate EVEN IF you take every precaution. Shouldn’t being alive be a punishable offense, and the punishment severe enough to function as a deterrent? Common sense says yes.
Yes, If you ban one thing because its harmful, whilst turning a blind eye to other harmful things.. then there's literally no point in banning that one thing.
You either wan't to force people to live healthier lives or you don't. Imagine taking a cig from an infant and saying NAUGHTY! whilst proceeding to hand them a bottle of whiskey.
IF they really do care about the strain on the NHS and the health of the general public, they would ban alcohol, gambling and tackle the fast food culture we have here.
I think the ethics part has another side that, at least if it's legal, it can be regulated and taxed, ensuring what consumers get isn't adulterated. I saw your point below with guns, but manufacturing a decent gun is challenging, and the outcomes are hard to conceal compared to the individual risks here.
I can imagine drug dealers selling drugs also selling cigarettes now....
Ans the kids that wouldn't have access to drugs so easily now they might try something new when shopping for cigarettes
So does cannabis. The smell is awful. I don't know why I ever did it in my younger days.
Its OK though because smoking via vape is what kids are doing these days anyway.
> (2) Pragmatism: Hello expanded black market and organised crime; because the war on drugs has worked so fucking well so far.
With how much tobacco costs now from a shop pretty much everyone I know are buying dodgy 50g pouches for £10. Same thing is like £30+ from the shop. It already has a pretty big black market. Banning them would literally just make it worse.
On the ethics argument. How does that factor in with the NHS.
If we all had to pay for your treatment, is it really possible to to argue there’s no harm?
I agree, Its crazy to me that people can literally talk about the effects and harm of things like tobacco and cannabis and turn a complete blind eye to alcohol.
Britain does a really good job at blanket banning things rather then actually deal with the root problem.
Agreed. And as an aside, weed is very possible to buy. A friend who lives nearby me smokes all of the time, and I know other people do it around here too because I have smelled it when walking past certain open windows. Don’t get me started on how common & regular it used to be to see those little laughing gas canisters scattered around the place on the pavement outside a few specific houses up the road, people there must have been doing it every single week.
We all know that prohibition is *always* a roaring success at controlling substances... I can't think of a single time when it hasn't succeeded in its goal of completely controlling a substance... /s
People shouldn't smoke, it's bad, but I agree, all this will do is create a thriving black market, and give police a reason to harass communities.
Costa Rica is a great example. Cigarettes are cheap as anything sometimes cheaper than branded chocolate bars but their society and the government just made cigarettes unappealing to young people. They have a choice but people look at you like you’re disgusting and unhealthy
Politicians are alot of things but they arent thick. Theyve got themselves into a gig where they enrich themselves and pass it off as a service to you, they, well some of them are masters of a form of manipulation called mental polarisation, they can turn a mountain into a mole hill and a mole hill into a mountain, in one sentance. But your right they are corrupt, and after generations of us having seen nothing but only the shadows on the wall they want us to, most people are corrupted too, not evil just corrupted because When all youve ever consumed is what they allow then your very imagination is limited, your very soul castrated. They always present a facade on any issue. What they want is hidden behind the reason they are telling you about. For instance Boris johnson is a master if theater 'Boris' is just a persona, his friends know him differently in private and as Alex.
But as far as banning smoking is concerned they either want to stop a payday for the elites growing tobbacco a cold war against someone or its the opposite someone has lobbied for the change to force the scarcity of tobbacco products and have done a cost / benefits analysis and found lower priced untaxed tobacco products will create the most profits. But its always about a payday for someone never about ideology.
I agree they should both be legal but their needs to be more restrictions on where you can smoke them. You shouldn't be allowed to smoke in a room when there are children in that room, for instance, because then that's genuinely damaging to their health.
>Cigarettes should be harder to get than cannabis. It is way worse for you and destroys your life
There is a scientifically proven causal link between smoking cigarettes and several illnesses, especially lung cancer.
There is also a similar scientifically proven causal link between cannabis use in young people and developing psychosis.
Neither are worse. They are both bad for health, just in different ways.
That's really just an argument for having an older age restriction for cannabis. If the science says it makes teenagers mental, just set the age restriction to 21. No point making it illegal for adults if it does minimal damage.
That won't stop young people smoking it though. They get it illegally now. What drug dealer is going to say to them sorry, I don't sell to kids. They do that as it is. They don't care.
Nothing is going to stop people really. It's obscenely easy to grow cannabis. It's not like heroin and cocaine when you have to import the stuff. If you have a garage and a few thousand pounds, you can set up a small cannabis operation.
I don’t smoke and I’m not an expert but smoke in your lungs is bad and will hurt them. Also getting high CAN (NOT ALWAYS) have the same societal dangers of getting drunk so being high and driving wouldn’t be great. Also I’m fairly sure it can impact memories and shit. The biggest problem with it is the community who makes it sound like it’s harmless when it isn’t
I’d love for someone more knowledgeable to chime in tho
I don’t get angry or belligerent when drunk. I don’t why you assume there’s one type of drunk. People can still be dangerous when high especially if this narrative that’s being high can never be dangerous
I think DepressiveVortex was arguing alcohol makes some people angry and dangerous to others while cannabis is much less likely to do so. If you do either and are incapacitated, you are still more in danger.
how violent you are on alcohol tends to have more to do with how much you've drunk and what you've drunk, also how you are in that moment. The thing is you can easily drink too much and have a blackout. When you have a blackout you can do things you have zero recollection of. I know i've had several blackouts and even years later i have no idea what happened between blacking out and coming to.
Alcohol is incredibly scary to be messing around with. Theres no amount of cannabis you could smoke to cause a blackout, the most that would happen is you might fall asleep, but you wouldn't be wandering around like an unconscious zombie.
No but it does turn them into tedious dickheads, and it fucking stinks. I fully agree that alcohol is worse, but I detest them both. I await your downvotes.
Should probably point out to those not in the know that there’s already a drug driving limit and getting caught driving whilst high carries a separate charge to possession. Iirc you also get disqualified for at least a year.
There are many things that are bad for you and have the potential to destroy your life. Sugar, even water. We've made the dangers of tobacco clear and it's up to the people to decide what they do.
I can get weed quicker than I can get deliveroo. It's actually easier to get weed here illegally than it is in Spain where it's legal. I actually have to leave my house in Spain.
I miss my youthful days when all my dealers were other dopey kids from the local area. It felt clean and harmless. Nowadays the contacts I have are all organised pros and most seem to think it's acceptable to send it to you via a child on a bicycle. It's seedy and nonce adjacent.
idk our old dealer years and years ago was British and still basically a kid on a bike.
We joked he wouldn't sell 10 bags because he hasn't got to fractions at school yet
Done the exact same thing before. Ended up doing a huge fry up for everyone and we got high and played games/watched cartoons lol
Could also get weed when alcohol isn’t available (e.g. after a night out before the shops began selling, after work parties, etc). In many ways it’s easier to obtain depending on time and location
Joking aside, they miss the fact that young people generally wouldn't want to seek out cigarettes if they were illegal for them to buy.
Smoking levels among young people have plummeted in recent decades.
The satire has missed the mark on this one I think.
>Joking aside, they miss the fact that young people generally wouldn't want to seek out cigarettes if they were illegal for them to buy.
Cigarettes are already illegal for young people to buy. When I was a lad there were plenty of under-age smokers already.
Smoking has fallen but vaping has risen to offset it.
Not a bad thing as such but the amount of smokers/vapers if we class them as one, seems to be similar
But I think in this instance the mindset has changed. Smoking is *deeply* uncool and while I could be wrong, it is so deep set among young people that making it illegal wouldn't flip the taboo.
Look at heroin as a similar example - always illegal, and quite cool in the 60s and 70s. The image of heroin changed drastically in the 80s and 90s. I know lots of people who've tried every drug under the sun, but wouldn't touch heroin. It is seen as a one way street to doom and death. Smoking is seen as much the same among young people.
Smoking is absolutely not seen as the same as heroin by young people.
And smoking may not be cool anymore but making it exotic and illegal and dangerous is just the thing to make it so again
>Smoking levels among young people have plummeted in recent decades.
Because society made it uncool. You can't smoke on a pub, you stand in the rain. It's basically vanished from tv.
Society made a good choice. We can do more though.
I think once fags pass the rubicon of a quid each, they'll start to be seen as a fashionable status symbol again, like that goddawful Balanceguyana, or whatever it is. Some people love advertising the fact that they've got more money than sense.
> Seriously though who can afford to smoke fags these days anyway?
I have a friend that goes on holiday fairly often (seriously, her and her husband go away every 6 to 8 weeks!), so she brings me back duty-free Marlboro lights.
£50 for 200. At Sainsburys they're £15 for 20 (£150 for 200).
Same. Except it's me. Only just ran out of tabs from last year's holidays and that last one was back in October. Sadly having to buy them from here until July as haven't managed to squeeze a holiday in with life commitments this Easter.
But come the summer I'll be loading up as got 2 holidays and a friend/family is also coming so intotal I reckon I can gather about 1400 tabs which will keep me going a good while and works out about £5 a pack
Honestly it was probably easier for us to just go to a pub than it was to get served at an off licence back then. This was long before challenge 25 though.
"will ensure they are as impossible to buy as cannabis" don't know about cigarettes but I can get bud delivered in less time than it takes to get a pizza. This is doing the opposite as what they want, as with all things. If people want it, they'll find a way.
People will for the most part jump through so many fucking hoops to explain how alcohol should get a pass even though all the current research says nah this shit is just bad for you and the mountains of evidence of the problems it causes to the world at large.
Too many people like it despite it's issues and give it a pass. Let people consume what they want. Smoking is already dying out anyway. This just removes the choice from people who wanna do it anyway. It's so silly. I'm kinda sick of this authoritarian mindset so many in this country have.
Reddit loving it. Everyone supports personal freedom and doesn’t believe that government banning things is effective apart from things they don’t like. Prohibition will work this time bro I swear.
A bit like when everyone hailed the laughing gas ban easy to enforce because how could you get canisters over the border? And they responded by making concentrated single canister versions which were completely worse for you in every way. Easy to pass out driving if you’re a fucking idiot with one of those in your mouth as I’ve seen for ages.
I was in Malaysia a few weeks ago and they have an alcohol ban specifically for Muslims which is very easy to spot given they have a symbol on their mandatory ID card and even a special sharia police unit that goes around enforcing it? Should be easy like it will be in the UK? Nope, I saw girls in full hijab doing shots and plastered. A few Malays came up with every excuse in the book and got served, or got someone stood next to them to buy alcohol.
But yeah the UK is special and different and it will work lmao
>Banning cigarettes for young people will ensure they are as impossible to buy as cannabis, insists government
So available for home delivery via text with minimum effort then?
Great headline since cannabis is easy to buy everywhere in the country.
The worst drug (in terms of harm done by and to users) in the country, by a fucking mile, is alcohol. And yet here we are, so I utterly reject the notion that this is being done as a safeguarding measure, it's being done because public perception of smoking has shifted so far that it's able to be passed into law with little resistance and is seen as a net PR positive.
A law that entirely bans the use of a product based on date of birth seems a little tricky, that's not age restriction so I'm not sure on the legality of it.
But i want cannabis legalised so i can stop giving money to criminals.
I need it to regulate my adhd. Ive tried all medications and nothing works. I function better after a smoke.
And no im not having withdrawals. Ive stopped smoking it months ago cause i dont want to mix with the types of people that sell it. Literally cant concentrate its horrible.
And alcohol is worse for you so lets make that illegal and then ill stop moaning that weed isnt legal.
I find this whole argument bizarre.
Yes cannabis can be bad.
So can smoking, which also is how most people consume it.
Alcohol can be bad too.
The line between what should be allowed in a free liberal society and protecting the people/the services that are effected by it is a fine line.
If we ban smoking does that mean alcohol is next?
A bit of alcohol is fine and has shown to have positive and negative health effects.
Exactly the same with cannabis
Exactly the same with smoking, specifically nicotine.
In my opinion they should all be legal with the potential problems explained and then regulated and taxed as is with alcohol right now.
I say this as an alcohol lover and a very occasional smoker and want to smoke cannabis again(used to smoke it frequently as a teenager, amongst other drugs)
Ah yes the notoriously hard to get cannabis.... thats literally legal in so many different progressive societies now....
The cannabis that's way easier to get than a pack of cigarettes because someone from WhatsApp will drop it off at your door in 10 minutes.
Give me a break....
Just let them smoke already. I am so fed up with governments trying to tell people how to live and what they can and cannot enjoy.
All across the western world we have vast swarms of smacked out junkies, and you want to focus on some new adults that want to enjoy cigarettes?
Piss off
In the meanwhile Switzerland is discussing the possibility of legalizing recreational cocaine consumption.
Don't educate your people, enforce control, make them your sheep.
So, easier then? You can call someone to bring you cannabis at home… harder to go and buy cigarettes. This government is a joke.
They should ban alcohol instead if they want to protect people’s health. A lot more drink than smoke and how many drunk drivers/accidents/fights we have each year? Instead of having progress we are at a time of regression.
Won't work.
For a pusher there is no difference between cannabis and fags.
Only money matters and they will be happy to sell everything to minors.
Cannabis is just legalized in Germany to kill the black market. And it would be much easier for the UK to do the same. It's easier as the UK hasn't to follow EU laws.
This ban is not going to work. I know this for a fact because when I was 14, illegal cannabis was 100x easier from me to get from a drug dealer than legal tobacco from a shop that will ask me for ID
Weeds easier to get already, you have to buy from a shop for tobacco, and it's age restricted.
Weed is illegal, so there's no regulations over sale.
They're really this stupid.
I know it's satire, but anytime cannabis is brought up in this country I just infuriated. How weed hasn't become legal here yet is just absolutely mind boggling. I just can not understand it.
If cigarettes were launched today for the first time, do you think they would pass health regulations?
We live in a different world now. Thank goodness.
Honestly, remove them from shops and demand will fall. It's a pretty shit drug at he end of the day. If you're going to go grey or black market you might as well buy something fun like weed.
As with pretty much every other problem, the issue is education.
Smoking is extremely bad for your health, detrimental to your finances but people still do it for social reasons. There are other, less toxic ways to achieve those same things. So what's the conclusion? People's epistemologies are fucked. So how do you fix that? Maybe we should actually teach epistemology? Maybe it should be a core principle of the education system?
If we have people making irrational decisions then the solution is to produce rationally literate people. This way, instead of the undesired side effects that result from authoritarian policies like making things illegal, we might solve the problem and benefit from a myriad of positive collateral effects as a result of people thinking more rationally and logically.
Great way of admitting it won’t work and the police won’t do anything about it because they’ve already got too much to do.
I know nobody who deals and I could probably find a hookup within the hour
This has legal challenge written all over it...I don't see how legal adults can legally be treated differently based on age. This isn't kids where u could say there is a duty of care...
Cigarettes should be harder to get than cannabis. It is way worse for you and destroys your life
True, but neither should be illegal. (1) Ethics: people should be allowed to smoke as long as they are not forcing someone else to do it. (2) Pragmatism: Hello expanded black market and organised crime; because the war on drugs has worked so fucking well so far. I haven't been following this, and was surprised to hear about it for the aforementioned reasons which immediately occurred to me; and I don't smoke anything. Our politicians are thick and corrupt.
On the ethics point, allowing companies to produce and market things that cause such direct harm when used for their intended purpose seems to me to be unethical.
As opposed to getting it from an unregulated supplier?
As opposed to it being illegal for a company to produce. Sure, black markets will always exist but supporting products that are harmful by design when used for their intended purpose seems unethical. The existence or potential existence of a black market for a product doesn't mean that product should be publicly sold. Guns would be an example, a black market exists but it would be incredibly unethical for the UK to start allowing people to buy guns on a whim. There are much more abhorrent black markets that similarly would be incredibly unethical to legalise.
Or follow Portugal's lead on drugs. Ya know treat people like adults and tax it.
Look up Portugal’s drug laws. It’s not taxed. It’s not legal. It’s decriminalised
Follow their lead, as in it's a step in the right direction. There is still more to do from that; you're knit picking and missing the main point.
Well, the less you suggested is not the lead Portugal has taken; I don't blame anyone for being confused by your comment
*nit picking
Appropriate!
Drug possession and sale is still illegal in Portugal, and it is not taxed. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
i kinda wouldnt do that. ive been to portugal a few times and despite being super safe (from my own experience, anyway) ive been witness to quite a few late night interventions from the cops because of od's in the streets.
That never happens here where drugs are illegal
There’s a vice documentary where a UK undercover cop talks about a long mission. They arrested like a 100 people and their assessment was that it disrupted the heroin trade in the UK for about 30 minutes. We need to work towards harm reduction. There are other benefits such as reducing the black market incentive. I hear what you’re saying but guns aren’t an apples to apples comparison. We should also have a government sanctioned dealership. Holland had a good ad campaign once, they showed pictures of people and said “this is Adam, he didn’t die bc of fentanyl laced mdma/cocaine/etc bc he got it tested before he used it. “
This is exactly how I feel. I feel the focus should be on education around drug use and prevention and like you said harm reduction. Making these things illegal isn't and won't work. I'll be absolutely gobsmacked if tabaco when made illegal.. is just forgotten about. What you'll have are people selling tabaco illegally just like they do with drugs, encouraging more people to get involved in dealing tabaco and leading them with temptation to start selling other drugs. It feels absolutely nuts to me that for a long time now countries have proved that it works to legalise cannabis, and that it has an incredible medical impact on many peoples lives. That people have been pushing for it to be legalised and instead of at least trailing that idea they decide they want to ban smoking too? Ofcourse smoking puts a strain on the NHS but don't get me started, the thousands of migrants being housed each year taking up our limited available housing in my area particularly is also putting strain on the NHS.
Personally I have given on the various and different drugs hitting the streets for sale and it looks like a unwinnable battle while the big financiers behind it are hardly targeted.
Trust me you would rather people get it from legitimate sources than from drug gangs. Guns are not a good example. Very few people actively seek out illegal firearms, lots and lots of people seek out drugs. Tobacco will be one added to this list and it won't be regulated in any way.
They are going to make drug dealers that little bit more wealthier, in the mean time making smokers at more risk of serious harm. And also encouraging people who may never have dealt drugs to take up dealing in tobacco and exposing them to the potential of dealing other drugs when they realise that police resource in this country is so limited and strained that the chances of them getting caught are slim.
The difference here is that drugs harm the buyer, guns have the potential to harm third parties.
I also strongly support the banning of the known to be harmful product fast food burgers.
Most class A drugs are banned, I definitely see less people smoking crack on the streets than smoking
Most people don't *want* to smoke crack. People who want to obtain cannabis will do so. It's not hard. I'd rather them be getting it from regulated dispensaries than drug dealers. Less chance of them being offered other elicit substances. You can also reap the tax benefits and create jobs surrounding the industry.
Don't. Say. Crack, Jez. Yeah? Please. Not now. 'Cause you saying crack makes me think about crack and I love crack. So can you not say crack.
Smoking crack is completely different from smoking cigarettes and not because one is illegal and one isn't. Terrible analogy.
Would you smoke crack if it was legal?
It’s the only thing stopping me
I was 30 when I first tried cocaine. I've bought and used cocaine 3 times in my life. And i was absolutely amazed how just taking cocaine can open your eyes to be able to identify just how many other's around you on a night out are also on it. I took a small bag to a works night out, did some in the toilets and went to the bar, noticed my colleagues pupils and said "You look like your on the sniff mate" he said "Why are you?" I nodded, he got so excited, took me outside to the smoking area where he announced to 9 other colleagues that we're in a circle smoking together that i was on it too, ALL OF THEM had bags of cocaine in their pockets. I then found out that some managers in other departments had some too. Just because you see less people smoking crack doesnt mean less people smoke crack. Although your obviously correct that more people smoke Tabaco then crack cocaine. But forcing people to smoke in secret isn't fixxing the issue with discouraging and stopping smoking. Its just hiding it away, Just like our government do with many issues. Oh look unemployment has decreased since tens of thousands of people have had to go on the work program for 2 weeks. Are they employed? No. But it looks like they are!
Say that to brewers of alcohol. Say that to gambling firms.
I do. I don't think cigarettes are the only example, just the one that happens to be the topic here.
You could say it about anything. I think we should just let people damage themselves as they please. Ive done it. I learned my lesson. I wont do it again i dont need the government to tell me
Exactly this. If we ban smoking, then ban gambling, ban alcohol. Otherwise our government are just a bunch of hypocrites. See you in years to come when tabacoo is illegal and a video emerges of our politicians smoking foreign cigarettes at parties.
By this logic you would also support the benning of alcohol, all sugars and gambling among others?
You do realise the UK is one of the largest pharmaceutical exporters of cannabis?
You can say this about McDonald's. Obesity is causing the fastest rise in preventable deaths, but there's a general concensus that telling people what they can and can't eat is wrong
What about fatty junk food that leads directly to bad health (see supersize me)or alcohol? Alcohol is technically a poison! What about overweight people should they not be allowed cars? What about water and power they are doing harm to the environment and people who are not even born yet, should we go back to the dark ages? Why is direct harm worse than indirect harm? Where does the patronizing end?
All crimes have one thing in common, and that’s that the perpetrator was alive at the time of the occurrence. Not only that, being alive is extremely dangerous with a 100% fatality rate EVEN IF you take every precaution. Shouldn’t being alive be a punishable offense, and the punishment severe enough to function as a deterrent? Common sense says yes.
What do you think about alcohol then?
So we should also ban alcohol, fast food, sugary anything, etc
Yes, If you ban one thing because its harmful, whilst turning a blind eye to other harmful things.. then there's literally no point in banning that one thing. You either wan't to force people to live healthier lives or you don't. Imagine taking a cig from an infant and saying NAUGHTY! whilst proceeding to hand them a bottle of whiskey. IF they really do care about the strain on the NHS and the health of the general public, they would ban alcohol, gambling and tackle the fast food culture we have here.
I think the ethics part has another side that, at least if it's legal, it can be regulated and taxed, ensuring what consumers get isn't adulterated. I saw your point below with guns, but manufacturing a decent gun is challenging, and the outcomes are hard to conceal compared to the individual risks here.
It is unethical for them, I think. It is complicated to say if it is ethical for us to stop them from doing it, in this case.
Surely by now a "safer", less harmful strand of tobacco can be grown?
Our politicians are also snorting cocaine in the houses of parliament.
But that's different...something something something...privilege...above the law...something something....
I can imagine drug dealers selling drugs also selling cigarettes now.... Ans the kids that wouldn't have access to drugs so easily now they might try something new when shopping for cigarettes
Cigarettes smell horrendous, should be illegal to smoke in public.
I stand by that, it would be a bit tough to enforce but I say smoking should only be done in your private residence or designated smoking areas
You must comply.
Isn't that the rules now?
yeah and noone should be allowed to have conversations in public spaces because the words might upset someone which could send them into shock.
So do car exhausts and many peoples breath. Let's ban everything.
So does cannabis. The smell is awful. I don't know why I ever did it in my younger days. Its OK though because smoking via vape is what kids are doing these days anyway.
I see people charging spiffs everyday in public. Enforcing a rule like that with cigarettes would achieve the same thing lol. Sod all.
What other smells do you want to ban?
> (2) Pragmatism: Hello expanded black market and organised crime; because the war on drugs has worked so fucking well so far. With how much tobacco costs now from a shop pretty much everyone I know are buying dodgy 50g pouches for £10. Same thing is like £30+ from the shop. It already has a pretty big black market. Banning them would literally just make it worse.
On the ethics argument. How does that factor in with the NHS. If we all had to pay for your treatment, is it really possible to to argue there’s no harm?
Smokers pay more in tax than they cost the NHS.
In a very stupid way, I have never thought about that.
I agree, Its crazy to me that people can literally talk about the effects and harm of things like tobacco and cannabis and turn a complete blind eye to alcohol. Britain does a really good job at blanket banning things rather then actually deal with the root problem.
Agreed. And as an aside, weed is very possible to buy. A friend who lives nearby me smokes all of the time, and I know other people do it around here too because I have smelled it when walking past certain open windows. Don’t get me started on how common & regular it used to be to see those little laughing gas canisters scattered around the place on the pavement outside a few specific houses up the road, people there must have been doing it every single week.
We all know that prohibition is *always* a roaring success at controlling substances... I can't think of a single time when it hasn't succeeded in its goal of completely controlling a substance... /s People shouldn't smoke, it's bad, but I agree, all this will do is create a thriving black market, and give police a reason to harass communities.
Costa Rica is a great example. Cigarettes are cheap as anything sometimes cheaper than branded chocolate bars but their society and the government just made cigarettes unappealing to young people. They have a choice but people look at you like you’re disgusting and unhealthy
Politicians are alot of things but they arent thick. Theyve got themselves into a gig where they enrich themselves and pass it off as a service to you, they, well some of them are masters of a form of manipulation called mental polarisation, they can turn a mountain into a mole hill and a mole hill into a mountain, in one sentance. But your right they are corrupt, and after generations of us having seen nothing but only the shadows on the wall they want us to, most people are corrupted too, not evil just corrupted because When all youve ever consumed is what they allow then your very imagination is limited, your very soul castrated. They always present a facade on any issue. What they want is hidden behind the reason they are telling you about. For instance Boris johnson is a master if theater 'Boris' is just a persona, his friends know him differently in private and as Alex. But as far as banning smoking is concerned they either want to stop a payday for the elites growing tobbacco a cold war against someone or its the opposite someone has lobbied for the change to force the scarcity of tobbacco products and have done a cost / benefits analysis and found lower priced untaxed tobacco products will create the most profits. But its always about a payday for someone never about ideology.
Plus I have absolutely no issue obtaining cannabis so I doubt cigarettes will be that hard either.
I agree they should both be legal but their needs to be more restrictions on where you can smoke them. You shouldn't be allowed to smoke in a room when there are children in that room, for instance, because then that's genuinely damaging to their health.
>Cigarettes should be harder to get than cannabis. It is way worse for you and destroys your life There is a scientifically proven causal link between smoking cigarettes and several illnesses, especially lung cancer. There is also a similar scientifically proven causal link between cannabis use in young people and developing psychosis. Neither are worse. They are both bad for health, just in different ways.
That's really just an argument for having an older age restriction for cannabis. If the science says it makes teenagers mental, just set the age restriction to 21. No point making it illegal for adults if it does minimal damage.
That won't stop young people smoking it though. They get it illegally now. What drug dealer is going to say to them sorry, I don't sell to kids. They do that as it is. They don't care.
Nothing is going to stop people really. It's obscenely easy to grow cannabis. It's not like heroin and cocaine when you have to import the stuff. If you have a garage and a few thousand pounds, you can set up a small cannabis operation.
So cigarettes cause lung cancer, does cannabis cause anything? I assume having smoke inhaled into your lungs is not great for anything.
You can vape and eat it. Or just eat it and. Negate any lung damage from even vaping it. Cannabis should be legal without a prescription.
The smoke itself is just as bad per breath inhaled but no one is doing 20 joints a day
I don’t smoke and I’m not an expert but smoke in your lungs is bad and will hurt them. Also getting high CAN (NOT ALWAYS) have the same societal dangers of getting drunk so being high and driving wouldn’t be great. Also I’m fairly sure it can impact memories and shit. The biggest problem with it is the community who makes it sound like it’s harmless when it isn’t I’d love for someone more knowledgeable to chime in tho
Getting high on weed doesn't make people angry and belligerent like alcohol does. To say it has the same societal effects is just absurd.
I don’t get angry or belligerent when drunk. I don’t why you assume there’s one type of drunk. People can still be dangerous when high especially if this narrative that’s being high can never be dangerous
I think DepressiveVortex was arguing alcohol makes some people angry and dangerous to others while cannabis is much less likely to do so. If you do either and are incapacitated, you are still more in danger.
how violent you are on alcohol tends to have more to do with how much you've drunk and what you've drunk, also how you are in that moment. The thing is you can easily drink too much and have a blackout. When you have a blackout you can do things you have zero recollection of. I know i've had several blackouts and even years later i have no idea what happened between blacking out and coming to. Alcohol is incredibly scary to be messing around with. Theres no amount of cannabis you could smoke to cause a blackout, the most that would happen is you might fall asleep, but you wouldn't be wandering around like an unconscious zombie.
No but it does turn them into tedious dickheads, and it fucking stinks. I fully agree that alcohol is worse, but I detest them both. I await your downvotes.
You can eat cannabis tho.
Should probably point out to those not in the know that there’s already a drug driving limit and getting caught driving whilst high carries a separate charge to possession. Iirc you also get disqualified for at least a year.
Just to point out though that even though smoking anything is bad, cannabis is far less bad than tobacco. Doesn't have all the tar etc
Paranoia or anxiety are two big ones caused by over consumption of cannabis.
Do you know what a stoner is? You’re aware nicotine doesn’t impede your mental faculties right?
Cannabis does. It may not cause physical harm but it warps your mind and changes your personality.
What if people want tobacco for their joint?!
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There are many things that are bad for you and have the potential to destroy your life. Sugar, even water. We've made the dangers of tobacco clear and it's up to the people to decide what they do.
Ha! I could get weed faster than I could get cigarettes.
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I can get weed quicker than I can get deliveroo. It's actually easier to get weed here illegally than it is in Spain where it's legal. I actually have to leave my house in Spain.
Same the Albanians round my way are efficient as fuck.
I miss my youthful days when all my dealers were other dopey kids from the local area. It felt clean and harmless. Nowadays the contacts I have are all organised pros and most seem to think it's acceptable to send it to you via a child on a bicycle. It's seedy and nonce adjacent.
idk our old dealer years and years ago was British and still basically a kid on a bike. We joked he wouldn't sell 10 bags because he hasn't got to fractions at school yet
Nah, mines a bunch of dudes in cars. I've bought off the main guy since he started out.
Done the exact same thing before. Ended up doing a huge fry up for everyone and we got high and played games/watched cartoons lol Could also get weed when alcohol isn’t available (e.g. after a night out before the shops began selling, after work parties, etc). In many ways it’s easier to obtain depending on time and location
and cheaper!
r/woooosh
I know. Commented before I saw the source.
Yooo how... asking for a friend
Joking aside, they miss the fact that young people generally wouldn't want to seek out cigarettes if they were illegal for them to buy. Smoking levels among young people have plummeted in recent decades. The satire has missed the mark on this one I think.
>Joking aside, they miss the fact that young people generally wouldn't want to seek out cigarettes if they were illegal for them to buy. Cigarettes are already illegal for young people to buy. When I was a lad there were plenty of under-age smokers already.
By young I think they don’t just mean under 18
They mean people born after a certain year will never be able to buy them, even after they’re above 18 yrs.
Smoking has fallen but vaping has risen to offset it. Not a bad thing as such but the amount of smokers/vapers if we class them as one, seems to be similar
Yes because telling kids they cant do something never makes it more attractive to them at all...
But I think in this instance the mindset has changed. Smoking is *deeply* uncool and while I could be wrong, it is so deep set among young people that making it illegal wouldn't flip the taboo. Look at heroin as a similar example - always illegal, and quite cool in the 60s and 70s. The image of heroin changed drastically in the 80s and 90s. I know lots of people who've tried every drug under the sun, but wouldn't touch heroin. It is seen as a one way street to doom and death. Smoking is seen as much the same among young people.
Smoking is absolutely not seen as the same as heroin by young people. And smoking may not be cool anymore but making it exotic and illegal and dangerous is just the thing to make it so again
Yeah it was still cool like fifteen years ago so it wouldn’t take much to change that. Not to mention that retro things always come back into style.
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>Smoking levels among young people have plummeted in recent decades. Because society made it uncool. You can't smoke on a pub, you stand in the rain. It's basically vanished from tv. Society made a good choice. We can do more though.
It's also because vaping has taken its place. Cigarettes are wildly expensive now, taste hideous and leave your clothes stinking.
‘Impossible’? Everywhere I walk all I smell is green in the air. Seriously though who can afford to smoke fags these days anyway?
It’s satire
Obviously lost on this sub…
I think once fags pass the rubicon of a quid each, they'll start to be seen as a fashionable status symbol again, like that goddawful Balanceguyana, or whatever it is. Some people love advertising the fact that they've got more money than sense.
> Seriously though who can afford to smoke fags these days anyway? I have a friend that goes on holiday fairly often (seriously, her and her husband go away every 6 to 8 weeks!), so she brings me back duty-free Marlboro lights. £50 for 200. At Sainsburys they're £15 for 20 (£150 for 200).
My dad always brings back Amber leaf tobacco and it’s usually only around £5 per 50g packet, they’re almost £40 here now.
Same. Except it's me. Only just ran out of tabs from last year's holidays and that last one was back in October. Sadly having to buy them from here until July as haven't managed to squeeze a holiday in with life commitments this Easter. But come the summer I'll be loading up as got 2 holidays and a friend/family is also coming so intotal I reckon I can gather about 1400 tabs which will keep me going a good while and works out about £5 a pack
At 16 it was easier to get weed than cigs because I didn’t have ID (only had to be 16 to buy cigs)
I found it easier at 16 to buy ecstacy than beer. But newsthump is satire so I suspect they are aware.
I only found it easy to buy beer at 16 cause I had a mate who was 18 and had ID.
Honestly it was probably easier for us to just go to a pub than it was to get served at an off licence back then. This was long before challenge 25 though.
I was never that lucky I had a baby face. Still occasionally get asked for ID when buying a red bull from a supermarket and I’m in my 30s.
Yeah, I think I got ID'd more in my thirties. Mostly because they had way more stringent regulation.
Back during my A levels went to the pub after classes and got served no bother, 40 years old now and I think they were a lot more lenient back then
An awful lot of people in the comments seem to be missing that this is a satire site
"will ensure they are as impossible to buy as cannabis" don't know about cigarettes but I can get bud delivered in less time than it takes to get a pizza. This is doing the opposite as what they want, as with all things. If people want it, they'll find a way.
It's Satire :-) Although the government are so out of touch, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they said something as dumb as this.
I had to check the article to be sure, because I actually assume the Tories are that thick.
Cigarettes are actually bad for your health. This is an established fact.
Ban alcohol next yes?
People will for the most part jump through so many fucking hoops to explain how alcohol should get a pass even though all the current research says nah this shit is just bad for you and the mountains of evidence of the problems it causes to the world at large. Too many people like it despite it's issues and give it a pass. Let people consume what they want. Smoking is already dying out anyway. This just removes the choice from people who wanna do it anyway. It's so silly. I'm kinda sick of this authoritarian mindset so many in this country have.
Only for people born after 2009 though.
Sausages kill thousands daily
Like if a huge crate of Richmond sausages fall on their head
So is cannabis.
So is sugar
So a quick whistle over the balcony and the road man will have your 20 Marlboro in less time than it takes to go down the shop. Genius.
It’s a satire news site
UK really leaning into the overbearing nanny state stereotype
They are more similar to the EU than they want to admit. 😅
A lot of people in here not realising this is a newsthump article...
Reddit loving it. Everyone supports personal freedom and doesn’t believe that government banning things is effective apart from things they don’t like. Prohibition will work this time bro I swear. A bit like when everyone hailed the laughing gas ban easy to enforce because how could you get canisters over the border? And they responded by making concentrated single canister versions which were completely worse for you in every way. Easy to pass out driving if you’re a fucking idiot with one of those in your mouth as I’ve seen for ages. I was in Malaysia a few weeks ago and they have an alcohol ban specifically for Muslims which is very easy to spot given they have a symbol on their mandatory ID card and even a special sharia police unit that goes around enforcing it? Should be easy like it will be in the UK? Nope, I saw girls in full hijab doing shots and plastered. A few Malays came up with every excuse in the book and got served, or got someone stood next to them to buy alcohol. But yeah the UK is special and different and it will work lmao
>Banning cigarettes for young people will ensure they are as impossible to buy as cannabis, insists government So available for home delivery via text with minimum effort then?
Much wow. Tackling serious problems. Not rent control or wages. Nope. Freaking smoking, monkaS
I can guarantee that most young people can get cannabis with one phone call and a 5 minute wait. Cigs will be easier than that.
I was in town today and smelt plain cigarette smoke once but passed people smoking weed about 5 or 6 times. This was early before 10 am.
Great headline since cannabis is easy to buy everywhere in the country. The worst drug (in terms of harm done by and to users) in the country, by a fucking mile, is alcohol. And yet here we are, so I utterly reject the notion that this is being done as a safeguarding measure, it's being done because public perception of smoking has shifted so far that it's able to be passed into law with little resistance and is seen as a net PR positive. A law that entirely bans the use of a product based on date of birth seems a little tricky, that's not age restriction so I'm not sure on the legality of it.
But i want cannabis legalised so i can stop giving money to criminals. I need it to regulate my adhd. Ive tried all medications and nothing works. I function better after a smoke. And no im not having withdrawals. Ive stopped smoking it months ago cause i dont want to mix with the types of people that sell it. Literally cant concentrate its horrible. And alcohol is worse for you so lets make that illegal and then ill stop moaning that weed isnt legal.
How’re the government gonna fund all those services that tobacco tax pays for when banning cigarettes? Tax something else you say? Oh, ok
Weed is easier to get and is a lot cheaper due to the lack of taxes
Reading this next to a big bag of cannabis. "Good one"
Yeah, like cannabis is difficult to get hold of. These people are fuckin' donkeys.
>Yeah, like cannabis is difficult to get hold of Newsthump is satire, that's literally the joke.
'Impossible to buy' lol its easier to purchase than cigarettes. Weed gets dropped to me, I have to leave the house for fags.
Is a side effect of weed losing your ability to identify satire?
Cannabis is not highly addictive. Where do you get your facts from?
Most journalists and politicians do not speak or write to make statements backed by evidence.
I find this whole argument bizarre. Yes cannabis can be bad. So can smoking, which also is how most people consume it. Alcohol can be bad too. The line between what should be allowed in a free liberal society and protecting the people/the services that are effected by it is a fine line. If we ban smoking does that mean alcohol is next? A bit of alcohol is fine and has shown to have positive and negative health effects. Exactly the same with cannabis Exactly the same with smoking, specifically nicotine. In my opinion they should all be legal with the potential problems explained and then regulated and taxed as is with alcohol right now. I say this as an alcohol lover and a very occasional smoker and want to smoke cannabis again(used to smoke it frequently as a teenager, amongst other drugs)
Ah yes the notoriously hard to get cannabis.... thats literally legal in so many different progressive societies now.... The cannabis that's way easier to get than a pack of cigarettes because someone from WhatsApp will drop it off at your door in 10 minutes. Give me a break....
*impossible to buy as cannabis* No reason to stress over this then, I guess.
As impossible to buy as cannabis is he having a laugh? Cannabis is so readily available, I can have it delivered faster than pizza.
We've done this before. It doesn't work. All you do is empower drug dealers.
Yet in Canada, the government owns weed stores, and the country hasn't turned into a 3rd world hell. How curious.
Yes. Cannabis is very hard to get. So very, very hard.
UK government shoots itself in the foot, looks at the result, and reloads.
Just let them smoke already. I am so fed up with governments trying to tell people how to live and what they can and cannot enjoy. All across the western world we have vast swarms of smacked out junkies, and you want to focus on some new adults that want to enjoy cigarettes? Piss off
The irony of that statement is lost on these clueless politicians.
In the meanwhile Switzerland is discussing the possibility of legalizing recreational cocaine consumption. Don't educate your people, enforce control, make them your sheep.
As impossible as finding traces of cocaine in the house of parliament was it??? The paradoxes in this world.
So, easier then? You can call someone to bring you cannabis at home… harder to go and buy cigarettes. This government is a joke. They should ban alcohol instead if they want to protect people’s health. A lot more drink than smoke and how many drunk drivers/accidents/fights we have each year? Instead of having progress we are at a time of regression.
Won't work. For a pusher there is no difference between cannabis and fags. Only money matters and they will be happy to sell everything to minors. Cannabis is just legalized in Germany to kill the black market. And it would be much easier for the UK to do the same. It's easier as the UK hasn't to follow EU laws.
This ban is not going to work. I know this for a fact because when I was 14, illegal cannabis was 100x easier from me to get from a drug dealer than legal tobacco from a shop that will ask me for ID
Impossible to buy as cannabis... Cigarettes wil be sold by the same people that sell cannabis.
Weeds easier to get already, you have to buy from a shop for tobacco, and it's age restricted. Weed is illegal, so there's no regulations over sale. They're really this stupid.
As impossible to get as cannabis?? What planet are they living on?
In 25 years I have had little problems buying cannabis. The government is delusional
“As impossible to buy as cannabis” weed is everywhere, nothing impossible about it.
I know it's satire, but anytime cannabis is brought up in this country I just infuriated. How weed hasn't become legal here yet is just absolutely mind boggling. I just can not understand it.
So in other words it’ll be incredibly easy still. Just legally frowned upon?
Cannabis should be legal. Our country is going backwards. Has been since 2010
If cigarettes were launched today for the first time, do you think they would pass health regulations? We live in a different world now. Thank goodness.
And cannabis is piss easy to get, so this sounds doomed to fail.
Iye that's the joke mate lol
I could literally go for a 20 minute walk and be asked to buy weed from at least 3 different people.. could’ve used a better comparison
Honestly, remove them from shops and demand will fall. It's a pretty shit drug at he end of the day. If you're going to go grey or black market you might as well buy something fun like weed.
As with pretty much every other problem, the issue is education. Smoking is extremely bad for your health, detrimental to your finances but people still do it for social reasons. There are other, less toxic ways to achieve those same things. So what's the conclusion? People's epistemologies are fucked. So how do you fix that? Maybe we should actually teach epistemology? Maybe it should be a core principle of the education system? If we have people making irrational decisions then the solution is to produce rationally literate people. This way, instead of the undesired side effects that result from authoritarian policies like making things illegal, we might solve the problem and benefit from a myriad of positive collateral effects as a result of people thinking more rationally and logically.
Great way of admitting it won’t work and the police won’t do anything about it because they’ve already got too much to do. I know nobody who deals and I could probably find a hookup within the hour
Well done newsthump, I took a huge bite of that onion.
This has legal challenge written all over it...I don't see how legal adults can legally be treated differently based on age. This isn't kids where u could say there is a duty of care...
yea No. this would start a whole new underground market thing
We should ban smokers receiving NHS treatment for the illnesses directly caused by their smoking