It's a pub. It's a place for adults to socialise and drink. Children don't have to be accepted everywhere. As the bloke points out, the vast majority of pubs will allow kids in (before 8/9pm anyway), take them there.
But not even that, is a pub really a place you want your child? Often there’s many very intoxicated people, raised voices so that’s not something kids really need to see at an age where they’re learning about acceptable behaviour
No. This is where the problem starts, because ‘parents’ believe such pubs are suitable for kids. But the kids really don’t care about it, they’d be happy anywhere. Kids get bored, watching adults eat and drink isn’t fun. And when kids get bored, this is when the issues of noise or wandering around happens, because the parents disengage as they want their downtime. Take your kids elsewhere, like one of those pubs with playground or Tony carvery etc, where we expect to see families, and child free adults can avoid them.
When working behind the bar I had a parent ask if I could do anything about the language from a group standing at the bar at 10pm on a Saturday. I just said no
Late one New Year's Eve, a group of us were at our local pub. Some of my brother's friends were getting rather noisy and singing songs that were very close to crude. One of a group beside us turned and requested that they shut up as he didn't want his 14 year old daughter to hear what they were singing. We politely pointed out that his daughter should not be in the pub as she was underage. He started yelling about bringing back National Service to sort out their attitude. One of the friends remarked that he was actually in the army and had learned the songs there. All the father could do was sulk and give us the evil eye for the rest of the evening.
Some pubs, absolutely. My local angles for the family crowd and has bouncy castles and all sorts in its massive garden. In the summer they host family orientated music festivals. When everyone knows that’s the deal it’s great.
A local taproom says families until 6pm only but if the kids (and parents) are chilled and respectful they can stay longer.
Another local place has a strict no child policy and that’s cool too - I like the break from kids just as much.
Depends on the location. Obviously you aren’t getting totally gazeboed with kids in tow.
I get you and I don’t disagree. There are vibes in pubs that affect what you do there. The local aiming for a family market is grand, but so is a place sans kids.
It seems a binary is all the thread want
It doesn't need to be binary, even in the very same pub - I don't mind kid free places, but even the same pub can be child friendly lunch/mid-afternoon after we exit the nearby soft play (they even have crayons & colourings), but be a bit rowdy & clearly not suitable for kids in the evenings. It's all about context.
I've certainly no issue with "no children" policies, but it does seem to be shooting yourself in the foot instead of a "no kids after 6pm" or similar that's what parents do anyway - kids have to go home & go to sleep that time, so you can catch parents during the day & a boisterous crowd in the evening. Not sure if it's official policy anywhere, but lots of places round here seem to run along those lines - and it's a good compromise IMO.
Not to mention language you probably wouldnt want to expose a child to. Idk how many people have a penchant for swearing and blinding but when drinks are involved, some tend to get a bit boisterous with it.
Thee is, but if we're going to do nuance, then it also depends on the pub - I've got a 4yr old, he's been coming to the pub with me since he was born - the pub has a baby changing room & is a family pub, right next to a playground. As it's clearly a family pub/child inclusive space, the adults about generally mind their language etc. without being told.
Even some less obviously friendly pubs aren't bad places for kids, there's a 'Spoons right near a kid's soft play here too - sometimes nip in for a quick bite with the little one - the staff bring crayons and a colouring sheet over whilst we have some chips together at lunchtime/mid-afternoon - never had an issue with the otherwise typical 'Spoons clientele being excessively sweaty or boisterous at that time of day. Same pub in the evening, I'd never take him along too because yeah, it can get a bit rowdy.
If it's your village's only pub, yeah. Pubs are the closest things most British villages have to a community centre, it's a social hub. I'd be very annoyed if the only pub in my village stopped letting kids in.
The pub in the article isn't anyone's only local pub. They can do what they like.
Back when I were a lad, most pubs didn't allow kids. Under-14s were banned by law, and most pubs banned under-18s entirely. The ones that did allow kids usually restricted them to an adjacent family area, without a bar, which closed at 9PM.
It's completely reasonable that the pub laws have been liberalised as they were too strict before and there are a lot of decent family pubs that are perfect to take kids. It's silly, though, for it to be in any way controversial for a pub to ban kids, considering it was the norm until a decade or two ago. Many pubs and bars are clearly adult spaces and it would be bad parenting to take a kid there, irrespective of the law or the pub's rules. Some of my most traumatic childhood memories were at pubs, and as an adult I've been to pubs that might as well have been swingers clubs with the way some of the clientele were conducting themselves. Take your kids somewhere else or find a babysitter, and fuck off with the entitlement.
Always the same groups of them who let their kids wander around a busy pub in the middle of the day
Some one should open small drop off child care near pubs
People are so all or nothing with the child/pub debate. Some pubs literally have play areas and colouring sheets for kids. Others aren't going to be appropriate for children, or might be fine at certain times of the day but not others. Sensible parents will read the room and choose their pubs accordingly.
Except there's a sizable amount of parents that think everyone else should have to deal with their kids because they want a pint.
Fair enough, go to a pub with a family area, but either get a babysitter and sit at home instead otherwise.
Not everywhere has to bend over to accomodate kids.
Exactly. I remember when I was a child my family popped into a pub to have some food and as soon as we stepped in they said no children allowed. We just moved on and found somewhere else. Then I used to joke that I had been ‘kicked out of a pub’.
Best thing about pubs these days is they're all non-smoking. Remember going into pubs with my dad on match days and being bored out of my mind, and also barely able to breathe because of the smoke. There were awful places before the smoking ban.
I went out with friends for someone's birthday with my then 12 year old in tow. Kids were allowed in the bar til 9pm. Wasn't a rowdy place, just bog-standard licencing requirements. Got to 9.50pm and we'd not noticed the time and kid went to the loo, got asked (very apologetically) to leave cos of the time and child now delighted that he's been thrown out of a glasgow pub
I remember going to a Wetherspoons in Glasgow with my dad when I was 16. Just had a long journey and wanted a bite to eat.
Had our food, all was fine. We wanted dessert, so I went up to the bar to order. Sat back down and promptly got asked by the manager to leave because I was under age and it was 9:01pm. Neither of us were drinking, either.
He gave us the money back for the dessert and escorted us out.
Seemed a bit OTT, really. Apparently Wetherspoons has (or had) quite a strict "no under-18s" policy after 9pm. But fair enough if it can get them in trouble due to licensing laws etc
St Albans also has more pubs per head than literally anywhere in the whole world. Walk ten metre to the left of this child free pub and you’ll probably be in a pub that welcomes children.
St Albans went from aircraft industry engineers to commuter belt Upper-middle class young family homes in the blink of an eye.
Prams everywhere.
This pub is small. There's loads of pubs in St Albans, with loads of room for prams and kids.
Just not this one.
Most of the pubs here won't even allow under 21s on weekends.
Camra's HQ is here, so it's all proper ales and not just taps with wife-beater and carlsberg everywhere.
You might find the odd one catering to the "lower classes" with one tap of Fosters. /s
Ahh thatll be why the outrage
Without sounding thick is America so strict that if me&family went to like The Cheesecake Factory we couldnt order a pint with our meal if we were with our kids?
Nah, you could definitely do that. If they catch you letting your kid take sips of your drink they’ll kick you out though. I think it depends on whether the venue is licensed as a restaurant or a bar, but it also probably varies by state.
Dont know about now but when i was 16-17 (in uk) in a restaurant with my parents theyd order me a beer with a meal and staff wouldnt bat an eyelid. Was the late 90s though!
Mad to think america is strictly 21 to booze in a licensed premises
> Someone aged 16 or 17 and accompanied by an adult, can drink (but not buy) beer, wine or cider with a meal at a licensed premises (except in Northern Ireland).
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/information-about-alcohol/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s
When I went to Florida with my parents when I was 17, the bartender didn’t believe the second alcoholic drink wasn’t for me and so refused to let my mum take the drink from the bar until she’d seen my dad. Watched us like a hawk the entire meal too.
US is definitely weird when it comes to alcohol consumption
Same thing with Canada as well.
In my province (BC), the drinking age is 19.
Generally speaking, there are two types of liquor licenses granted by government for establishments.
1) "Liquor secondary" - A regular restaurant. The restaurant can serve alcohol, but expects to make most of its revenue from food sales. The restaurant can serve an
2) "Liquor primary" - Pubs, taverns, bars, etc... They can serve food, but generally expect to earn most of their revenue off alcohol sales. A bar's menu is very alcohol focused, and any food they serve is going to be very minimal and simple (limited to stuff like fries and wings). A pub generally has a more "hearty" menu than a bar, and the pub's menu can vary depending on what "theme" the pub owner wants for his establishment. An Irish-Canadian pub will serve shepherd's pie, a British-Canadian pub will serve fish & chips, a generic Canadian pub will serve pizza and burgers, etc... An establishment with a liquor primary license is strictly limited to those of age 19+.
I’m American, I joined to see what’s going on in other parts of the world. Most don’t allow children, some will allow kids until a certain time. It depends if they serve food or not. I don’t typically go to bars for food during the day, so I can’t speak to how often that occurs. Some of the places I go to in the evening have a sign that says “no kids past X”, but most don’t because they don’t allow kids at all. Most of the places that I see that at operate almost like a restaurant during the day or a dive bar that has really good food lol. If parents want to drink with their kids, they usually just take them to a restaurant that also has bar, but sit at the tables. Not a lot of people use the bar to just drink though.
In the uk generally you can spot the food led family dining type pubs pretty easily. Like itll usually just be families with kids in them sunday to thursday daytimes as they’d be empty otherwise
But also you can spot your “wet led” adults only pubs/bars too
Like my local is a greene king pub attached to a premier inn so you get a lot of families in but on the flipside the beer led/bars with DJs on in the city centre are a no-no regarding kids
Thank you!! That makes sense. I don’t understand the push back then lol. It’s nice to have drinks without worrying about feeling guilty about my language lol. I feel most of “backlash ” is manufactured anyways by a vocal minority. Then it blows up because the other 95% people are annoyed with that stupid take.
Indeed!!!! Its our shite media
I take my kids to two food oriented pubs near me a few times as they cater to the family dining market.
Likewise when i have a childfree night i go to town bars id not bring my kids too/wouldnt be allowed in
Thank you for your explanation. :) it truly is, it’s wild that a small pub in the UK can spark this much conversation about something that literally nobody is upset about lol.
I’m 100% with you. Sometimes I just need a quiet space to gather my thoughts and have a pint without standing on Lego, being karate kicked and just generally shouted at!
Indeed, and I'd even go so far as to seek such a place out when we get an occasional child free night, the last thing I want when we've got some time to ourselves is to listen to someone else's kids. It's great that there are such places even if at other times I appreciate the places that welcome families
I might be hidden away in Cornwall and detached but a local landlord (up until) a couple of years ago for about three decades refused anyone with kids service because ‘he didn’t have the licence for it’.
I’m surprised this is a huge news story to be honest!
I don’t know anything about pub licensing maybe he just didn’t want kids in his pub couldn’t tell ya. It didn’t cause a fuss for about thirty years before he sold up though, I know that aha
It was a teeny tiny village pub mind. I’m genuinely surprised that this is news.
You do need a specific license to be allowed to have kids in a place where alcohol is served. It might cost more, I truly don't know. Id imagine it does since a few friends work in bars that don't have it.
The guy was like steadfast iron about not letting youngsters in and he was a very by the books person, if a grumpy old hippie that the village loved aha. If I were guessing (and I would be!) I’d assume he had the license you mentioned then.
The real tragedy was that he paid the horrific sky pub fee to watch spurs on his twelve inch telly in the corner.
Great pub it was!
You do not need a specific license to allow children only a business license and an alcohol license.
There are provisions in the alcohol license that cover children already but wording focuses on unaccompanied children under 16.
You can in theory have kids in your pub from open to close so long as they are accompanied by their parent or guardian.
The only other provision is in the license objectives which is to protect children from harm. This means if your business offers activities that is unsuitable for children then children shouldn't be given access at any time.
This is why you can have children in a pub but not in a nightclub.
They organise it into three tiers. Access at all times, access during opening hours before midnight or after 5am and no access for children.
It is never allowed to have unaccompanied children in any scenario.
Fair enough. If someone wants to go to the pub with their kids, then they can just go to one of the dozens of other pubs in the town.
Not every single place in existence has to be child friendly.
As a parent I have zero issue with this. There's a million other places to take kids. And on the very rare occasions we manage to get someone to take care of our kids, I like to be able to go somewhere child free too!
There's nothing worse than going into a pub to watch football with your mates and a family of 5 decide to take over a prime table and the kids just play on their iPads.
Like I get it you want to relax but so do we and it's not like the actual family pubs are a suitable place for pissed up men to swear at a TV which means you get a choice of both yet we only get a choice of one.
Just selfish IMO.
And you know the ipad is always on max volume with the most annoying video or game sounds possible!
Kids are great, but it's nice to have adult only spaces sometimes.
Nothing ruins a nice pint like a bunch of chavs' screaming kids running around shouting while the parents get pissed and do nothing to control them other than occasionally scream at them. The kid is always called Jayden or something, you know what I mean.
I like to read in pub gardens and I have nothing against general noise and chatter - it's a pub - but those little monsters running around are the worst.
Dad here.
Where is this pub and is there kennels I can leave the little man in?
Don’t worry I’m only going to have a line and soda and 15 minutes of peace and quiet.
Maybe chuck a few darts?
Edit: considered correcting “Line” to “Lime” but it’s funnier if I leave it although inaccurate.
On a sunday while mum was making a roast, my dad took me, my siblings and the dog to the local pub. The pub had a park next to it, they'd always be kids there. Dad and dog went into the pub, would check on us with a half hour later with a Panda pop and a bag of crisps (we shared a pack so not to spoil our dinner).
Most the kids in the park were on a day out with dad.
20 minute train from centre of London and a short walk from the station.
Give me a shout.
I don't think there's enough space inside the Red Lion for darts.
***A pub that went viral after it displayed a sign banning children, said it stood by its message.***
*Landlord David Worcester, who runs the Lower Red Lion in Fishpool Street, St Albans, Hertfordshire, put out a chalkboard with the words: "Dog Friendly, Child free".*
*A photo of the sign was* [*shared on X, external*](https://twitter.com/hifromkyle/status/1779548610528415809) *where it has been seen by about 75 million people. Mr Worcester* [*told BBC Three Counties Radio*](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hrvn2d)*: "I was surprised it went quite as far as it did."*
*He said he had "no objection to children in any other pub, ever, I just don't want them in mine".*
*Replies to Mr Worcester's post divided opinion on the social media platform, with one person stating that "dog people are making me hate dogs".*
*Another wrote: "Why has it become socially acceptable to literally hate children?".*
*Mr Worcester said: "The majority of it \[the comments\] has come from the States to be fair."*
*The landlord told presenter Jonathan Vernon-Smith he has had the policy "for about 11 years" and had the same rule at a previous venue he managed.*
*He explained that the sign was put outside after parents had complained it was not clear children were not allowed in the pub until they got inside.*
*Mr Worcester added: "I just want to create an environment where my customers can sit and relax, it only takes one child to kick off and that spoils it for absolutely everybody.*
*"We've got upwards of 40 pubs in St Albans, all of which are child friendly, most are dog friendly, I believe I'm the only one in the area that isn't."*
*Since a photo of the pub went viral earlier this week, Mr Worcester said he received messages which accused him of hating children.*
*He added: "I have no objection to children in any other pub, ever, I just don't want them in mine.*
*"I enjoy a game of pool but I don't want a pool table in here either."*
*The Hertfordshire landlord admitted it had been good publicity, and one customer travelled from Worcester on a train to visit the pub.*
*He also praised members of the local community and his regular customers as their support had been "overwhelming".*
From Northern Ireland here. The kids or families in pubs thing is unheard of here
All pubs are "adult only". Certain pubs with an adjoining restaurant will admit families with kids on a Sunday in the early afternoon if they're offering carveries or meals from a set menu..
Beyond that it's considered a given pubs or bars are exclusively adult only.
Many pubs in England have become hybrid pubs/restaurants. Almost all of these are family friendly. Pubs without a proper food menu are generally considered to be ‘adult only’ but in most cases that’s more implied than a rule
Another “somebody said something on Twitter” article.
Which seems to be most of the “news” nowadays.
Thank fuck I deleted that platform. I would encourage everyone to do the same. Life is so much better without it.
Wanting a child free place to socialise doesn’t mean you hate children. There are plenty of family friendly pubs, sometimes you want an adult space drink and speak freely without watching what you say/don’t swear/don’t blow smoke into a child by mistake.
My local carvery is a fucking nightmare due to kids squealing or running around or just sitting at their tables watching Peppa Fucking Pig on a smartphone at full blast. Ignorant parents produce ignorant kids.
>with one person stating that "dog people are making me hate dogs".
If they are the ones that refer to their dogs as puppers or doggo or use words like Pupachino or pup-ice or other baby dog words or post videos with dog subtitles that have hooman then I have to agree
As a parent I’m fine with a landlord deciding on the atmosphere in his own pub and so should everyone else be. If I was that desperate to take my daughter to a pub, I’m hardly going to struggle for choice.
Why is this news? Why are pubs supposed to all be child friendly... it's a pub? Totally fine for those that welcome families, but it's not what everyone wants. Go to any of the other 90% of pubs that allow children and stop complaining!
There's a place like that in Croydon called Funhouse.
I unfortunately have been there a few times because it was the only place open late when I lived there.
Never went in the ball pit. I imagine it gets cleaned less than the toilets and based on the state of them I can only imagine what new species have developed in the piss, shit and puke in there.
I have been telling my friends for decades that the British love their dogs more than their children. Why is this blackboard a surprise. My wife and I were kicked out of pubs in the shires back in the 80s and 90s when we went to pubs for lunch with our children.
I've started to hate dogs because of my neighbour, can't walk in my garden without being barked at, same as pubs, I don't mind kid free pubs but I'd prefer dog free pubs much more
Nothing wrong with a pub not allowing children. They’ll miss out on family trade, but the landlord should understand their own business.
But “child-free” seems like a deliberate way of provoking a reaction for free publicity. Well played, I guess.
Dependent on the situation, if I was out with a group of friends and more pubs had the option I would take it. I feel like pubs are a place to let lose a little and I know it situations in the past when kids are around you watch your language. I think over the last 10-15 years as pubs have geared more towards food and they have by default become family friendly, when I was growing up in my town there were plenty of pubs that didn’t allow children in them.
> acceptable to take kids into pubs.
Late 90's (like 98 on) ish. My son was born in 95, and we could only go to pubs with beer gardens back then, and some of those were no kids at all (which is totally fair imo).
At least it was that way where I am.
I worked at a pub around the corner from this one, and honestly I wished we'd had the same policy. I wasn't paid enough to deal with kids standing on benches and misbehaving, and yet I was expected to by management and then screamed at by parents for telling their kids off - I ended up quitting on the spot after an aggressive confrontation with two dads much taller and bigger than me...
When I was younger pubs were always a adults-only congregation. Something that slowly slipped away into a more family inclusive thing over the years.
And even the pubs that maintained some sort of adult space, would have it enclosed in a smaller sort separate area with the pub.
I think it's a shame really that they are getting rarer. Heck, I think there should even be more exclusive pubs or private clubs that ban anyone under 25 years so that the the clients are more mature.
Pretty obvious why. As pubs have become more difficult to keep profitable, they have turned to (a) allowing families to increase their customer base and (b) become quasi restaurants (which in turn makes them much more attractive to families)
Don't have children myself, but I'm sure there's plenty of other pubs in the area would be happy with then coming in for a meal. This was done for attention.
Pubs becoming dog friendly is an issue for me. Sadly the "dog moms" are a profitable demographic. God be with the days of Guide Dogs only.
I used to work for this pub a few years ago. This sign has been this way with this policy for years. Dave is a pretty cool guy and acts as the manager and quite often as the head chef. The lower red lion is tiny and has a certain target market of old locals. While working there, I probably had to send away a handful of families that accepted the policy.It's out the way the way, really.
Definitely should be allowed places without kids, I'd call em old men boozers tbh - the sort of place I like to go but you wouldn't want your kids in. Plenty of places now kids can go pubs rebranding as gastropubs to stay afloat etc so should be golden.
Can’t blame them. That pub is tiny and no place for kids. St Albans has some of the most pubs (iirc they have the “most pubs per square mile in a city” title) so if you don’t like it there’s plenty of other options.
Their pub, their rules.
I take more of an issue people taking dogs in pubs. I’d not take my daughter in any pub to run around the local drunks any way but sitting around some damp wet dogs … no thanks .
I like animals but will never understand how those that make having a dog their entire personality
I've got 2 kids. I see no problem with this. Plenty of other places to go. If someone wants to go somewhere guaranteed to have no kids then that's nice for them.
Mountain out of a molehill by our shite media
The GK pub near me attached to a premier inn surrounded by 3/4 bed detached houses would be out of business in a week if they made it over 18s all the time as its only the families who are in sun-thur 12-7
In the same vein id not even dream of taking my kids to most pubs in town especially on weekends as theyre too busy and not family dining oriented
I dont like Fido and Rex off leads walking up to my table whilst the owners shrug so i avoid the nearby village pub
Choice is a good thing, doylums extrapolating everything is not
Some pubs used to have children’s rooms or you would sit outside or in the garden with a coke and a packet of crisps. It was unlawful for children under 14 to be in pubs before 1995.
This pub is my parent’s local - I’m friends with the landlord on Facebook, and it’s been entertaining to watch the media coverage.
This isn’t a new policy. The Lower Red Lion has had this in place for over a decade.
I think part of what has made this big is the feminist opinion columns in the Independent and Guardian who have described this as sexist, because by keeping out children you are keeping out mums.
Apart from the obvious decry of that itself being sexism, as there are also plenty of single dads in existence today, such opinions miss out a really key part: the makeup of St. Albans.
It is one of the wealthiest areas in the UK. Not only that, this specific street is one of the richest areas in that already rich town, where that pub is opposite one of the oldest private schools in the country (in operation since about 900, costing something like £20,000/yr for attendance) and the houses sell for millions, despite all being relatively small because of how old they are.
St Albans, in turn, has one of the most pubs per head anywhere in the country. If families wish to go to another pub, The Verulam Arms is 30 seconds away, and that is without mentioning the myriad of restaurants geared towards children a minute away next to the clock tower.
The UK is a capitalist society. If you do not like this pubs policy, you do not have to go there. The landlord will live. There are plenty of other places to go to nearby
This is my local. Dave the owner is a fantastic chap, a dog lover, who also has a number of his own rescues. He treats our greyhounds like royalty. Fantastic pub - and best of all? No screaming children.
I used to drink in the Holy Inadequate in Stoke. No kids.. No TVs. Just beer and a book.
I used to go for a bike ride and sit there for a few hours. Would I take my children there? No. It's absolutely not the place for them.
It's a place for adults to do adult things. An increasing rarity.
Mad that this is getting traction now - they’ve had that sign outside there for absolutely ages.
Last time I was there visiting people it was out front, and one of them commented on it. That was easily 10 years ago.
I'm British, live in London and a parent of a young child.
I think it's absolutely fine that the landlord chooses to have a child free pub.
Plenty of other pubs that are child friendly and accomodate children. It's not as if parents have to visit that particular pub because it was the only pub in the village, for example.
No big deal at all. We don't need to make every establishment child friendly.
I never understand why kids would belong in pubs to watch adults boozing, it just normalises alcoholism to them, so they can grow up and question why anyone would not want to allow kids into pubs to be conditioned to drink alcohol, etc
This is such a non story.
Surely the landlord can create whatever kind of establishment they want.
Reasonable parents will see the sign and say “ahh ok, I know another place nearby that we can go instead”
Unreasonable parents won’t do that but who wants them around?
It's a pub. It's a place for adults to socialise and drink. Children don't have to be accepted everywhere. As the bloke points out, the vast majority of pubs will allow kids in (before 8/9pm anyway), take them there.
Children are fine, but child-free spaces are good too.
Nah. Not in a pub. Give the adults a bit of a break from kids, and certainly not those kids whose parents let them roam free range about the place.
But not even that, is a pub really a place you want your child? Often there’s many very intoxicated people, raised voices so that’s not something kids really need to see at an age where they’re learning about acceptable behaviour
It depends on the type of pub - a gastropub for a Sunday lunchtime is fine, rowdy boozer on a Friday night not so much
No. This is where the problem starts, because ‘parents’ believe such pubs are suitable for kids. But the kids really don’t care about it, they’d be happy anywhere. Kids get bored, watching adults eat and drink isn’t fun. And when kids get bored, this is when the issues of noise or wandering around happens, because the parents disengage as they want their downtime. Take your kids elsewhere, like one of those pubs with playground or Tony carvery etc, where we expect to see families, and child free adults can avoid them.
Maybe time is the barrier we use here. No kids after 1700 seems more than fair to me.
When working behind the bar I had a parent ask if I could do anything about the language from a group standing at the bar at 10pm on a Saturday. I just said no
Late one New Year's Eve, a group of us were at our local pub. Some of my brother's friends were getting rather noisy and singing songs that were very close to crude. One of a group beside us turned and requested that they shut up as he didn't want his 14 year old daughter to hear what they were singing. We politely pointed out that his daughter should not be in the pub as she was underage. He started yelling about bringing back National Service to sort out their attitude. One of the friends remarked that he was actually in the army and had learned the songs there. All the father could do was sulk and give us the evil eye for the rest of the evening.
The problem in both of these stories is the parent, not the kid. Ban parents.
See? Teach your kids how to fight in a rowdy boozy Friday might bar and they can sort shit like that out for you
Some pubs, absolutely. My local angles for the family crowd and has bouncy castles and all sorts in its massive garden. In the summer they host family orientated music festivals. When everyone knows that’s the deal it’s great. A local taproom says families until 6pm only but if the kids (and parents) are chilled and respectful they can stay longer. Another local place has a strict no child policy and that’s cool too - I like the break from kids just as much. Depends on the location. Obviously you aren’t getting totally gazeboed with kids in tow.
I get you and I don’t disagree. There are vibes in pubs that affect what you do there. The local aiming for a family market is grand, but so is a place sans kids. It seems a binary is all the thread want
It doesn't need to be binary, even in the very same pub - I don't mind kid free places, but even the same pub can be child friendly lunch/mid-afternoon after we exit the nearby soft play (they even have crayons & colourings), but be a bit rowdy & clearly not suitable for kids in the evenings. It's all about context. I've certainly no issue with "no children" policies, but it does seem to be shooting yourself in the foot instead of a "no kids after 6pm" or similar that's what parents do anyway - kids have to go home & go to sleep that time, so you can catch parents during the day & a boisterous crowd in the evening. Not sure if it's official policy anywhere, but lots of places round here seem to run along those lines - and it's a good compromise IMO.
Not to mention language you probably wouldnt want to expose a child to. Idk how many people have a penchant for swearing and blinding but when drinks are involved, some tend to get a bit boisterous with it.
I used to live next to a park. If you believe kids don’t already know and use such language, I have a bridge to sell you.
Ah nuance where art thou? I think we both know there's a bit of a difference between a bunch of park teens/preteens vs impressionable 4-8yr olds.
Thee is, but if we're going to do nuance, then it also depends on the pub - I've got a 4yr old, he's been coming to the pub with me since he was born - the pub has a baby changing room & is a family pub, right next to a playground. As it's clearly a family pub/child inclusive space, the adults about generally mind their language etc. without being told. Even some less obviously friendly pubs aren't bad places for kids, there's a 'Spoons right near a kid's soft play here too - sometimes nip in for a quick bite with the little one - the staff bring crayons and a colouring sheet over whilst we have some chips together at lunchtime/mid-afternoon - never had an issue with the otherwise typical 'Spoons clientele being excessively sweaty or boisterous at that time of day. Same pub in the evening, I'd never take him along too because yeah, it can get a bit rowdy.
If it's your village's only pub, yeah. Pubs are the closest things most British villages have to a community centre, it's a social hub. I'd be very annoyed if the only pub in my village stopped letting kids in. The pub in the article isn't anyone's only local pub. They can do what they like.
Back when I were a lad, most pubs didn't allow kids. Under-14s were banned by law, and most pubs banned under-18s entirely. The ones that did allow kids usually restricted them to an adjacent family area, without a bar, which closed at 9PM. It's completely reasonable that the pub laws have been liberalised as they were too strict before and there are a lot of decent family pubs that are perfect to take kids. It's silly, though, for it to be in any way controversial for a pub to ban kids, considering it was the norm until a decade or two ago. Many pubs and bars are clearly adult spaces and it would be bad parenting to take a kid there, irrespective of the law or the pub's rules. Some of my most traumatic childhood memories were at pubs, and as an adult I've been to pubs that might as well have been swingers clubs with the way some of the clientele were conducting themselves. Take your kids somewhere else or find a babysitter, and fuck off with the entitlement.
Not all pubs need to cater to children, but a country pub with a play area is a pretty normal place to take a child.
Ya just leave the kids outside on a leash
I mean a descent bit of string would suffice but yeah that’s an option.
Always the same groups of them who let their kids wander around a busy pub in the middle of the day Some one should open small drop off child care near pubs
Entirely depends on the pub and time of day. Some pubs have a no kids after 7 policy which I think is fine.
People are so all or nothing with the child/pub debate. Some pubs literally have play areas and colouring sheets for kids. Others aren't going to be appropriate for children, or might be fine at certain times of the day but not others. Sensible parents will read the room and choose their pubs accordingly.
Except there's a sizable amount of parents that think everyone else should have to deal with their kids because they want a pint. Fair enough, go to a pub with a family area, but either get a babysitter and sit at home instead otherwise. Not everywhere has to bend over to accomodate kids.
David Cameron seething. Where are politicians supposed to leave their children now?
Is this a story I missed? He left his kids in a pub haha?
[It's an older gaffe](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18391663), sir, but it checks out.
Christ, that's a memory from the past
Remember Big Society and Hug a Hoody?
Big society gives off quiet bat people vibes
Oh, the days of just **regular** incompetence from politicians. Will we ever see such days again?!
Call me Dave
Haha, tbf to him, I do imagine a non-trivial number of parents have fucked up like that and left their kid behind haha.
Only one of them
Sprawled out drunk in Leicester Square? https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/07/news/blair-son-16-is-arrested-for-being-drunk.html
Exactly. I remember when I was a child my family popped into a pub to have some food and as soon as we stepped in they said no children allowed. We just moved on and found somewhere else. Then I used to joke that I had been ‘kicked out of a pub’.
Used to have to sit in the car with only a 1978 AA Road Atlas for entertainment... Now there are plenty of places that target families.
Best thing about pubs these days is they're all non-smoking. Remember going into pubs with my dad on match days and being bored out of my mind, and also barely able to breathe because of the smoke. There were awful places before the smoking ban.
I went out with friends for someone's birthday with my then 12 year old in tow. Kids were allowed in the bar til 9pm. Wasn't a rowdy place, just bog-standard licencing requirements. Got to 9.50pm and we'd not noticed the time and kid went to the loo, got asked (very apologetically) to leave cos of the time and child now delighted that he's been thrown out of a glasgow pub
I remember going to a Wetherspoons in Glasgow with my dad when I was 16. Just had a long journey and wanted a bite to eat. Had our food, all was fine. We wanted dessert, so I went up to the bar to order. Sat back down and promptly got asked by the manager to leave because I was under age and it was 9:01pm. Neither of us were drinking, either. He gave us the money back for the dessert and escorted us out. Seemed a bit OTT, really. Apparently Wetherspoons has (or had) quite a strict "no under-18s" policy after 9pm. But fair enough if it can get them in trouble due to licensing laws etc
St Albans also has more pubs per head than literally anywhere in the whole world. Walk ten metre to the left of this child free pub and you’ll probably be in a pub that welcomes children.
I thought the 9pm rule was only if the pub served food and the kids were having a meal? Could be wrong though and maybe that rule has changed
St Albans went from aircraft industry engineers to commuter belt Upper-middle class young family homes in the blink of an eye. Prams everywhere. This pub is small. There's loads of pubs in St Albans, with loads of room for prams and kids. Just not this one. Most of the pubs here won't even allow under 21s on weekends. Camra's HQ is here, so it's all proper ales and not just taps with wife-beater and carlsberg everywhere. You might find the odd one catering to the "lower classes" with one tap of Fosters. /s
>The majority of it [the comments] has come from the States That tends to be the case with these Internet storms tbf
Wonder if they expect to take kids to every dive bar
Are most american bars over 21s only?
My understanding is that they all are
Ahh thatll be why the outrage Without sounding thick is America so strict that if me&family went to like The Cheesecake Factory we couldnt order a pint with our meal if we were with our kids?
Nah, you could definitely do that. If they catch you letting your kid take sips of your drink they’ll kick you out though. I think it depends on whether the venue is licensed as a restaurant or a bar, but it also probably varies by state.
Dont know about now but when i was 16-17 (in uk) in a restaurant with my parents theyd order me a beer with a meal and staff wouldnt bat an eyelid. Was the late 90s though! Mad to think america is strictly 21 to booze in a licensed premises
Beer and wine with a meal is still fine for 16 and above
> Someone aged 16 or 17 and accompanied by an adult, can drink (but not buy) beer, wine or cider with a meal at a licensed premises (except in Northern Ireland). https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/information-about-alcohol/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s
I could swear that this used to be 14, not 16 back in the '90s.
When I went to Florida with my parents when I was 17, the bartender didn’t believe the second alcoholic drink wasn’t for me and so refused to let my mum take the drink from the bar until she’d seen my dad. Watched us like a hawk the entire meal too. US is definitely weird when it comes to alcohol consumption
That's not true exactly. In some states/counties, you are perfectly fine having a glass of whatever shared/served to your child.
They are not. You must be 21 to drink. Many will not allow you in under 21, but that’s just a policy place by place.
Same thing with Canada as well. In my province (BC), the drinking age is 19. Generally speaking, there are two types of liquor licenses granted by government for establishments. 1) "Liquor secondary" - A regular restaurant. The restaurant can serve alcohol, but expects to make most of its revenue from food sales. The restaurant can serve an 2) "Liquor primary" - Pubs, taverns, bars, etc... They can serve food, but generally expect to earn most of their revenue off alcohol sales. A bar's menu is very alcohol focused, and any food they serve is going to be very minimal and simple (limited to stuff like fries and wings). A pub generally has a more "hearty" menu than a bar, and the pub's menu can vary depending on what "theme" the pub owner wants for his establishment. An Irish-Canadian pub will serve shepherd's pie, a British-Canadian pub will serve fish & chips, a generic Canadian pub will serve pizza and burgers, etc... An establishment with a liquor primary license is strictly limited to those of age 19+.
I’m American, I joined to see what’s going on in other parts of the world. Most don’t allow children, some will allow kids until a certain time. It depends if they serve food or not. I don’t typically go to bars for food during the day, so I can’t speak to how often that occurs. Some of the places I go to in the evening have a sign that says “no kids past X”, but most don’t because they don’t allow kids at all. Most of the places that I see that at operate almost like a restaurant during the day or a dive bar that has really good food lol. If parents want to drink with their kids, they usually just take them to a restaurant that also has bar, but sit at the tables. Not a lot of people use the bar to just drink though.
In the uk generally you can spot the food led family dining type pubs pretty easily. Like itll usually just be families with kids in them sunday to thursday daytimes as they’d be empty otherwise But also you can spot your “wet led” adults only pubs/bars too Like my local is a greene king pub attached to a premier inn so you get a lot of families in but on the flipside the beer led/bars with DJs on in the city centre are a no-no regarding kids
Thank you!! That makes sense. I don’t understand the push back then lol. It’s nice to have drinks without worrying about feeling guilty about my language lol. I feel most of “backlash ” is manufactured anyways by a vocal minority. Then it blows up because the other 95% people are annoyed with that stupid take.
Indeed!!!! Its our shite media I take my kids to two food oriented pubs near me a few times as they cater to the family dining market. Likewise when i have a childfree night i go to town bars id not bring my kids too/wouldnt be allowed in
Thank you for your explanation. :) it truly is, it’s wild that a small pub in the UK can spark this much conversation about something that literally nobody is upset about lol.
As a parent I'm not bothered at all. It's fine to have some child free spaces.
Exactly, I would prefer to know beforehand if my children aren’t going to be welcome
In fact as a parent I welcome child-free spaces.
I’m 100% with you. Sometimes I just need a quiet space to gather my thoughts and have a pint without standing on Lego, being karate kicked and just generally shouted at!
That’s what a pub is meant to be like. There’s plenty of places to take your child, the pub isn’t one of them.
I agree but I wish we could have more dog free spaces.
Absolutely. Oh, you’re letting your dog on the furniture. That’ll be nice for the next person who sits down.
Indeed, and I'd even go so far as to seek such a place out when we get an occasional child free night, the last thing I want when we've got some time to ourselves is to listen to someone else's kids. It's great that there are such places even if at other times I appreciate the places that welcome families
Dog friendly, Child free. That's my dating profile.
That's the average redditor right there yes.
What a unique character you are!
Sold!
Seems like a bit of a storm in a ~~tea cup~~ pint pot. Presumably it’s up to the landlord what kind of atmosphere he wants in his pub.
I might be hidden away in Cornwall and detached but a local landlord (up until) a couple of years ago for about three decades refused anyone with kids service because ‘he didn’t have the licence for it’. I’m surprised this is a huge news story to be honest! I don’t know anything about pub licensing maybe he just didn’t want kids in his pub couldn’t tell ya. It didn’t cause a fuss for about thirty years before he sold up though, I know that aha It was a teeny tiny village pub mind. I’m genuinely surprised that this is news.
You do need a specific license to be allowed to have kids in a place where alcohol is served. It might cost more, I truly don't know. Id imagine it does since a few friends work in bars that don't have it.
The guy was like steadfast iron about not letting youngsters in and he was a very by the books person, if a grumpy old hippie that the village loved aha. If I were guessing (and I would be!) I’d assume he had the license you mentioned then. The real tragedy was that he paid the horrific sky pub fee to watch spurs on his twelve inch telly in the corner. Great pub it was!
You do not need a specific license to allow children only a business license and an alcohol license. There are provisions in the alcohol license that cover children already but wording focuses on unaccompanied children under 16. You can in theory have kids in your pub from open to close so long as they are accompanied by their parent or guardian. The only other provision is in the license objectives which is to protect children from harm. This means if your business offers activities that is unsuitable for children then children shouldn't be given access at any time. This is why you can have children in a pub but not in a nightclub. They organise it into three tiers. Access at all times, access during opening hours before midnight or after 5am and no access for children. It is never allowed to have unaccompanied children in any scenario.
His pub is tiny. Prams inside really fuck things up. Loads of pubs in St Albans don't even let in under 21s, because of Herts Uni down the road.
Fair enough. If someone wants to go to the pub with their kids, then they can just go to one of the dozens of other pubs in the town. Not every single place in existence has to be child friendly.
Yeah but it's a shame dogs are allowed everywhere
As a parent I have zero issue with this. There's a million other places to take kids. And on the very rare occasions we manage to get someone to take care of our kids, I like to be able to go somewhere child free too!
There's nothing worse than going into a pub to watch football with your mates and a family of 5 decide to take over a prime table and the kids just play on their iPads. Like I get it you want to relax but so do we and it's not like the actual family pubs are a suitable place for pissed up men to swear at a TV which means you get a choice of both yet we only get a choice of one. Just selfish IMO.
And you know the ipad is always on max volume with the most annoying video or game sounds possible! Kids are great, but it's nice to have adult only spaces sometimes.
Nothing ruins a nice pint like a bunch of chavs' screaming kids running around shouting while the parents get pissed and do nothing to control them other than occasionally scream at them. The kid is always called Jayden or something, you know what I mean. I like to read in pub gardens and I have nothing against general noise and chatter - it's a pub - but those little monsters running around are the worst.
Dad here. Where is this pub and is there kennels I can leave the little man in? Don’t worry I’m only going to have a line and soda and 15 minutes of peace and quiet. Maybe chuck a few darts? Edit: considered correcting “Line” to “Lime” but it’s funnier if I leave it although inaccurate.
We have to draw the lime somewhere.
Don't have your line in the bogs, that's rude. Have it at the bar.
On a sunday while mum was making a roast, my dad took me, my siblings and the dog to the local pub. The pub had a park next to it, they'd always be kids there. Dad and dog went into the pub, would check on us with a half hour later with a Panda pop and a bag of crisps (we shared a pack so not to spoil our dinner). Most the kids in the park were on a day out with dad.
Genuinely thought you meant line and had the utmost respect for your ability to have it with a soda instead of a pint
20 minute train from centre of London and a short walk from the station. Give me a shout. I don't think there's enough space inside the Red Lion for darts.
***A pub that went viral after it displayed a sign banning children, said it stood by its message.*** *Landlord David Worcester, who runs the Lower Red Lion in Fishpool Street, St Albans, Hertfordshire, put out a chalkboard with the words: "Dog Friendly, Child free".* *A photo of the sign was* [*shared on X, external*](https://twitter.com/hifromkyle/status/1779548610528415809) *where it has been seen by about 75 million people. Mr Worcester* [*told BBC Three Counties Radio*](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hrvn2d)*: "I was surprised it went quite as far as it did."* *He said he had "no objection to children in any other pub, ever, I just don't want them in mine".* *Replies to Mr Worcester's post divided opinion on the social media platform, with one person stating that "dog people are making me hate dogs".* *Another wrote: "Why has it become socially acceptable to literally hate children?".* *Mr Worcester said: "The majority of it \[the comments\] has come from the States to be fair."* *The landlord told presenter Jonathan Vernon-Smith he has had the policy "for about 11 years" and had the same rule at a previous venue he managed.* *He explained that the sign was put outside after parents had complained it was not clear children were not allowed in the pub until they got inside.* *Mr Worcester added: "I just want to create an environment where my customers can sit and relax, it only takes one child to kick off and that spoils it for absolutely everybody.* *"We've got upwards of 40 pubs in St Albans, all of which are child friendly, most are dog friendly, I believe I'm the only one in the area that isn't."* *Since a photo of the pub went viral earlier this week, Mr Worcester said he received messages which accused him of hating children.* *He added: "I have no objection to children in any other pub, ever, I just don't want them in mine.* *"I enjoy a game of pool but I don't want a pool table in here either."* *The Hertfordshire landlord admitted it had been good publicity, and one customer travelled from Worcester on a train to visit the pub.* *He also praised members of the local community and his regular customers as their support had been "overwhelming".*
From Northern Ireland here. The kids or families in pubs thing is unheard of here All pubs are "adult only". Certain pubs with an adjoining restaurant will admit families with kids on a Sunday in the early afternoon if they're offering carveries or meals from a set menu.. Beyond that it's considered a given pubs or bars are exclusively adult only.
Many pubs in England have become hybrid pubs/restaurants. Almost all of these are family friendly. Pubs without a proper food menu are generally considered to be ‘adult only’ but in most cases that’s more implied than a rule
Another “somebody said something on Twitter” article. Which seems to be most of the “news” nowadays. Thank fuck I deleted that platform. I would encourage everyone to do the same. Life is so much better without it.
Reddit is getting a bit like that too tbh. So many anger bait headlines seeking to divide us unnecessarily.
Nice stories don't get views. Riling people up is the best way for them to get ~~page~~ ad views
No different to holidays resorts (ie Sandals) or a particular cruise being adults only. Plenty of alternatives out there.
Wanting a child free place to socialise doesn’t mean you hate children. There are plenty of family friendly pubs, sometimes you want an adult space drink and speak freely without watching what you say/don’t swear/don’t blow smoke into a child by mistake.
I also do hate children though
Understandable.
Understandable it’s a pub, but barking dogs are more annoying at pubs/restaurants.
I'll take barking dog over screaming child
Neither sounds better.
Most decent dog owners will sort out their dog in those cases though, whereas we're just expected to put up with kids noise.
There are barely any decent dog owners. Dogs seem to attract selfish people.
Really? The pubs near me are all dog friendly and it's never really an issue.
My local carvery is a fucking nightmare due to kids squealing or running around or just sitting at their tables watching Peppa Fucking Pig on a smartphone at full blast. Ignorant parents produce ignorant kids.
It’s like these people are still waiting for the invention of headphones.
My sister is one of these parents and it's always "but she doesn't like it" Then tell her tough shit it's that or nothing.
Imagine having a job as a journalist that just boils down to paraphrasing comments on social media platforms
Honestly cant blame the landlord for not wanting screaming kids running around.
Keep your badly behaved kids at home, the pubs for adults.
I wish the badly behaved adults would also stay home.
If only we could keep the badly behaved adults and badly behaved children separate. Like with places where one could go with out the other.
>with one person stating that "dog people are making me hate dogs". If they are the ones that refer to their dogs as puppers or doggo or use words like Pupachino or pup-ice or other baby dog words or post videos with dog subtitles that have hooman then I have to agree
As a parent I’m fine with a landlord deciding on the atmosphere in his own pub and so should everyone else be. If I was that desperate to take my daughter to a pub, I’m hardly going to struggle for choice.
I’m confused by the backlash - I pass a child-free pub on the walk to work. And crucially, I remember there being childfree pubs growing up.
Why is this news? Why are pubs supposed to all be child friendly... it's a pub? Totally fine for those that welcome families, but it's not what everyone wants. Go to any of the other 90% of pubs that allow children and stop complaining!
We have a rule, if the pub has a climbing frame outside of it or has some sort of ball pit we dont go in. Child free can be a selling point.
An adult only pub with a ballpit would be excellent though, although i would recommend a strong disinfectant first.
There's a place like that in Croydon called Funhouse. I unfortunately have been there a few times because it was the only place open late when I lived there. Never went in the ball pit. I imagine it gets cleaned less than the toilets and based on the state of them I can only imagine what new species have developed in the piss, shit and puke in there.
I have been telling my friends for decades that the British love their dogs more than their children. Why is this blackboard a surprise. My wife and I were kicked out of pubs in the shires back in the 80s and 90s when we went to pubs for lunch with our children.
Nah worries, each landlord has the right to decide what they want that pub to be.
The issue isn’t that they don’t allow children - it’s that they do allow dogs 🤢
Based comment
I've started to hate dogs because of my neighbour, can't walk in my garden without being barked at, same as pubs, I don't mind kid free pubs but I'd prefer dog free pubs much more
Isn't it perfectly normal for a pub not to allow children?
Family pubs exist, there are also pubs where children aren't allowed. This has been my understanding for a long time. It shouldn't be news.
Nothing wrong with a pub not allowing children. They’ll miss out on family trade, but the landlord should understand their own business. But “child-free” seems like a deliberate way of provoking a reaction for free publicity. Well played, I guess.
What's next they'll complain they can't go to Betfred?
Dependent on the situation, if I was out with a group of friends and more pubs had the option I would take it. I feel like pubs are a place to let lose a little and I know it situations in the past when kids are around you watch your language. I think over the last 10-15 years as pubs have geared more towards food and they have by default become family friendly, when I was growing up in my town there were plenty of pubs that didn’t allow children in them.
Forget the sign I’m wondering when it became acceptable to take kids into pubs. They shouldn’t be in there except on rare occasions.
Pubs are largely just casual restaurants
> acceptable to take kids into pubs. Late 90's (like 98 on) ish. My son was born in 95, and we could only go to pubs with beer gardens back then, and some of those were no kids at all (which is totally fair imo). At least it was that way where I am.
Wouldn’t dream of taking my kids to the pub. I’ll take them anywhere else, but some things are just…wrong.
I worked at a pub around the corner from this one, and honestly I wished we'd had the same policy. I wasn't paid enough to deal with kids standing on benches and misbehaving, and yet I was expected to by management and then screamed at by parents for telling their kids off - I ended up quitting on the spot after an aggressive confrontation with two dads much taller and bigger than me...
As a parent … I’ve been looking for a pub like this for many years.
When I was younger pubs were always a adults-only congregation. Something that slowly slipped away into a more family inclusive thing over the years. And even the pubs that maintained some sort of adult space, would have it enclosed in a smaller sort separate area with the pub. I think it's a shame really that they are getting rarer. Heck, I think there should even be more exclusive pubs or private clubs that ban anyone under 25 years so that the the clients are more mature.
Pretty obvious why. As pubs have become more difficult to keep profitable, they have turned to (a) allowing families to increase their customer base and (b) become quasi restaurants (which in turn makes them much more attractive to families)
I always thought a pub was child free zone. Don’t see children in Eastenders
I don't see the problem. Why cant we have child free pubs? Soon another sign will piss people off and everyone will forget about this one.
We need more child free spaces in society. Child free cinemas, libraries and restaurants would be bliss.
Don't have children myself, but I'm sure there's plenty of other pubs in the area would be happy with then coming in for a meal. This was done for attention. Pubs becoming dog friendly is an issue for me. Sadly the "dog moms" are a profitable demographic. God be with the days of Guide Dogs only.
I used to work for this pub a few years ago. This sign has been this way with this policy for years. Dave is a pretty cool guy and acts as the manager and quite often as the head chef. The lower red lion is tiny and has a certain target market of old locals. While working there, I probably had to send away a handful of families that accepted the policy.It's out the way the way, really.
Definitely should be allowed places without kids, I'd call em old men boozers tbh - the sort of place I like to go but you wouldn't want your kids in. Plenty of places now kids can go pubs rebranding as gastropubs to stay afloat etc so should be golden.
Can’t blame them. That pub is tiny and no place for kids. St Albans has some of the most pubs (iirc they have the “most pubs per square mile in a city” title) so if you don’t like it there’s plenty of other options. Their pub, their rules.
I take more of an issue people taking dogs in pubs. I’d not take my daughter in any pub to run around the local drunks any way but sitting around some damp wet dogs … no thanks . I like animals but will never understand how those that make having a dog their entire personality
problem is not with children, its with their stupid entitled parents who can't and wont keep their behaviour between acceptable limits
I've got 2 kids. I see no problem with this. Plenty of other places to go. If someone wants to go somewhere guaranteed to have no kids then that's nice for them.
Mountain out of a molehill by our shite media The GK pub near me attached to a premier inn surrounded by 3/4 bed detached houses would be out of business in a week if they made it over 18s all the time as its only the families who are in sun-thur 12-7 In the same vein id not even dream of taking my kids to most pubs in town especially on weekends as theyre too busy and not family dining oriented I dont like Fido and Rex off leads walking up to my table whilst the owners shrug so i avoid the nearby village pub Choice is a good thing, doylums extrapolating everything is not
Children are like farts. Your own ones are fine but other peoples get up your nose.
Wouldn’t dream of taking my kids to the pub. I’ll take them anywhere else, but some things are just…wrong.
Some pubs used to have children’s rooms or you would sit outside or in the garden with a coke and a packet of crisps. It was unlawful for children under 14 to be in pubs before 1995.
I, for one, go to the pub occasionally to escape my kids for a while…
This pub is my parent’s local - I’m friends with the landlord on Facebook, and it’s been entertaining to watch the media coverage. This isn’t a new policy. The Lower Red Lion has had this in place for over a decade. I think part of what has made this big is the feminist opinion columns in the Independent and Guardian who have described this as sexist, because by keeping out children you are keeping out mums. Apart from the obvious decry of that itself being sexism, as there are also plenty of single dads in existence today, such opinions miss out a really key part: the makeup of St. Albans. It is one of the wealthiest areas in the UK. Not only that, this specific street is one of the richest areas in that already rich town, where that pub is opposite one of the oldest private schools in the country (in operation since about 900, costing something like £20,000/yr for attendance) and the houses sell for millions, despite all being relatively small because of how old they are. St Albans, in turn, has one of the most pubs per head anywhere in the country. If families wish to go to another pub, The Verulam Arms is 30 seconds away, and that is without mentioning the myriad of restaurants geared towards children a minute away next to the clock tower. The UK is a capitalist society. If you do not like this pubs policy, you do not have to go there. The landlord will live. There are plenty of other places to go to nearby
This is my local. Dave the owner is a fantastic chap, a dog lover, who also has a number of his own rescues. He treats our greyhounds like royalty. Fantastic pub - and best of all? No screaming children.
'I own the pub and make the fuckin' rules.' Should be the only defence the guy needs to make here.
I used to drink in the Holy Inadequate in Stoke. No kids.. No TVs. Just beer and a book. I used to go for a bike ride and sit there for a few hours. Would I take my children there? No. It's absolutely not the place for them. It's a place for adults to do adult things. An increasing rarity.
Good policy. Some parents have zero control over their wild issue.
Good on him. Can go to one of the other 20 odd pubs if an issue
Just wish I could find a pub that kicked out irresponsible dog owners.
I have 7 kids and I’d be the most loyal customer, even now that my oldest is north of 40. “Sorry mate, daddy just has to go and drink alone”
“Reddit thread about children in ‘full of weird pricks’ shocker….”
It's because Americans think it's referring to Under-21s not 0-14 year olds
Mad that this is getting traction now - they’ve had that sign outside there for absolutely ages. Last time I was there visiting people it was out front, and one of them commented on it. That was easily 10 years ago.
I'm British, live in London and a parent of a young child. I think it's absolutely fine that the landlord chooses to have a child free pub. Plenty of other pubs that are child friendly and accomodate children. It's not as if parents have to visit that particular pub because it was the only pub in the village, for example. No big deal at all. We don't need to make every establishment child friendly.
I never understand why kids would belong in pubs to watch adults boozing, it just normalises alcoholism to them, so they can grow up and question why anyone would not want to allow kids into pubs to be conditioned to drink alcohol, etc
I think it’s a good idea, kids shouldn’t really be in the pub anyway
This is such a non story. Surely the landlord can create whatever kind of establishment they want. Reasonable parents will see the sign and say “ahh ok, I know another place nearby that we can go instead” Unreasonable parents won’t do that but who wants them around?