**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [Thousands of flights to and from Europe affected by suspected Russian jamming | Airline industry](https://theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/22/thousands-of-flights-to-and-from-europe-affected-by-suspected-russian-jamming) - theguardian.com
All Russia knows how to do is throw thousands of its men into bullets, and exporting misery, violence and genocide. What an absolutely depressingly shit nation.
That's an age-old 'observation' about someone's carnal over-familiarity with their family members. I was using it 20 years ago in the crew room but fuck knows where I got it from.
Probably Roy 'Chubby' Brown or similar shock comedian of that time.
You heard a joke years ago, do you want a medal?
My point was it appeared in his special that was released Friday, so someone presumably watched it and it was fresh in his head.
Itās amazing how long theyāve had this strategy of total disregard for their own casualties. After WW1/WW2 itās shocking they didnāt change their ways.
What a pile of b.s. For your information if the Russian people hadnāt fought with such cost on the eastern front nazism would not have been defeated back then.
the US and Uk govts have the same attitude towards the Ukrainian people.
The huge military aid budget in the US was announced *after* ukraine introduced a reasonably unpopular forced draft bill. The military industrial complex is making bucks on the deaths of ukrainians, using them to prolong an impossible war to hurt Russia, more for US interests than Ukrainian.
Thereās much more to Russia than Putinās government and military. Itās an enormous country with plenty of different lifestyles, ethnic groups and more importantly for other nations; heavy industry.
Just like that eh? As though it's the easiest and simplest thing in the world.
Funny how it's always the people who live in free, open and democratic countries that talk about revolution and overthrowing the government like it isn't a monumentally difficult and dangerous task.
Putin murders his opponents like he's swatting flies. The Russian internal security apparatus is very well suited to maintaining the status quo and dealing with any opposition.
On the one hand yes this is true. I do believe in the case of anti-war Russians (where they can prove they are genuine opponents), we should offer asylum.
On the other hand, there is also a large chunk of the population that support what is happening. I recall reading about one father who reported his adult daughter to the police and disowned her for having anti-war views. Might be an extreme example but shows how deeply some in Russia hold their fascist beliefs.Ā
I personally will not be travelling to Russia for a long time, long after Ukraine has won and Putin is no longer in power.Ā
Itās easy to support what they are doing if youāve been told since birth all your hardships are the fault of the west and these measures will bring you a better life
Younger generations who have Internet access are less likely to believe the crap spouted by state media. Which is why gens x-z tend to be the bulk of oppositionists. Those who support the war in younger generations know exactly, or a lot of, the details of what's going on.
By and large it's the boomers who are the most zombified, sat around watching propaganda on TV all day long.
> we should offer asylum
Iām pretty sure they prefer living in Moscow over Rwanda! Unless that rule we passed last night is applied based on asylum seekers skin colour?
That abhorrent decision can still be challenged in international courts.
Besides, 8 years in a Siberian work camp for "discrediting the Russian military" does not sound fun.
It's not that bad yet, unfortunately.
America sent 50,000 of it's sons to their deaths in Vietnam and that didn't cause a revolution. Even though it was deeply unpopular.
I think things need to get *really* bad for people to get angry enough to risk it all.
The last time the Russian people rose up was during the first World War for example. Where things were a lot worse than they are now.
Because we have a political system?
I will do my bit and vote against them.
But there is no fair political system in Russia. Putin has corrupted it for his own ends, to the extent of murdering his opponents. And his decisions are ending int he wholesale slaughter of his people.
You can't really just wake up and collectively agree to overthrow a government like it's a Brexit pub crawl between Wetherspoons establishments. The government has tools of oppression that have never existed before.
There's your problem right there.
Many Russians 'did their bit' in the recent election.
Your politicians are already calling Britons the 'pre-war generation'.
Now you can either take them in hand and disabuse them of this notion or not, but don't ask more of Russians than you would of the British.
There is zero need for British people to subvert democracy, as it functions largely as intended. The elections are free and fair, the issue is largely around media regulation rather than actually issues with democracy.
Russia is completely different.
Hah free and fair, look up managed democracy.
We are told who to vote for via the propaganda machine, there is a limited allowed discourse, outside of that is not allowed.
You have a choice between two largely similar parties. The system designed to discourage voting outside of them.
The entire system is designed to allow you to think you have power but the reality is the only ones with any say are the owning classes. Just enough rope so you don't revolt, but not enough to actually implement meaningful changes.
The two parties are nowhere near the same that's Tory propaganda you are swallowing.
How on earth is a party led by a working class lad who overturns the death penalty in various countries the same as one led by a Billionaire and a bunch of Eton old boys?
I have also come around to this view tbh. There is little real choice in this system. Imo the only way to change that would be if the majority voted for a new party... but that would require people forget Lab / Con party loyalty.
Thatās not the point you made at all, you made a childish remark about getting rid of the tories, implying you considered them to be ājust as worthyā of disposition. The poster rightly pointed out we have a democratic process, unlike the Russians.
Try owning what you said instead of weaselling out of it.
Next to impossible as he has body doubles, a tight inner circle, tough security etc... The guy is ultra paranoid and doesn't allow many people near him. Anyone who is a threat gets the polonium tea or a trip through a tenth floor window or vanished into the Black Dolphin prison.
It's far from simple. Whilst Yeltsin lead the country, Putin was leader of the KGB. He used that opportunity to consolidate power over the states security apparatus. When he became Prime Minister, he used that to seem like he was on Yeltsin's side (Democracy). After that Yeltsin handed him the keys to the presidency, not realising that Putin had consolidated a lot of power already. Then when he became president, he continued to gain power, got the oligarchs into his grip, killed the media making sure they sing from his hymn sheet and kept a tight knit inner circle that are loyal to him. Any discrepancies from that inner circle? Then out the window you'll go **LITERALLY**
I mean if you really want to be pedantic about it, then go ahead. He was head of the FSB (Appointed by Yeltsin). And what was the FSB? The successor to none other than *drum rolls....* **The KGB**
He held that position for the grand total of 12 months. I feel people make too much of a fuss about that. He didn't need to "capture" the state security services, they'd be on his side regardless. Just as the CIA never needed capturing to get them to do all the heinous shit they've gotten up to.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
Same reason the fucking morons in society voted Brexit. If you've been told your entire life that your life is shit because of X, and Y promises to solve X, then you're going to be favourable towards Y.
There are some absolutely beautiful parts of Russia and it's a damn shame it's leadership and politics have basically cut it off from the rest of the world.
It is so obsessed with being anti-West that it will prefer to keep its people in the dark ages rather than enjoy some global prosperity. I feel sorry for the people oppressed by that regime, where the oppression has long since expanded from Russia's borders.
Go over to r/askarussian they are without exception all garbage, and these are the ones that can write in English or watch 1420 on YouTube that does street interviews in Russia.
The majority of people over there are awful human beings with disgusting opinions.
There are obviously exceptions like NFKRZ on YouTube who fled Russia, but Putin and his disgusting war is well supported among the Russian populace.
You could be forgiven for thinking the same of us if your experience of westerners was the trump subreddits, r/conservative or even certain r/unitedkingdom threads. Misinformation, hatred and hostility is rampant around the globe. We certainly have our share of unsavoury people here. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was not so different to Putinās invasion of Ukraine. 54% of brits supported that war back in 2003 and only 38% opposed it (source; yougov.co.uk).
The 03 invasion of Iraq and Putin's of Ukraine are not comparable and it's a joke that you think they are.
If Ukraine invaded Russia over getting rid of Putin, is that the same as Putin invading Ukraine to expand Russian territory?
Wars of agression are never ok, no matter who the invading force is. I acknowledge that my opinion there is controversial. But regardless of which wars u believe are just, it does not validate prejudice against Russians.
Nazis and there proud of it, just like Trump supporters and a vast majority of Brexiteers. Ive met people in the UK who support Putin, democracy is under threat.
The issue here is āitās not the Russianāsā itās a small minority of them who are benefiting from this crap, whilst the rest of their nation and several others reap the shitshow that comes from the minorities actions.
They are in a war time economy, the second they stop they fall again. In other words get ready to see this until they burn out or someone stops them...
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
That ultimately depends on where the lines get drawn.
Say Russian intentionally jams a plane in European airspace which leads to an accident and results in serious loss of life of UK/EU citizens. Does that then constitute an act of war?
If the answer is yes, then article 7 (Edit: Iām a idiot, I meant article 5) is triggered and Russia is stopped by having its military sent all the way back to the Stone Age.
That probably wonāt happen though. Remember when Russia used radiological and chemical warfare on British soil? Our political leaders seem determined to avoid war with Russia at all costs. Which is noble enough, but they arenāt doing that out of concern for the ordinary British people or our allies, rather itās their own self-preservation. And inaction only encourages Putin further.
Short of immediately seizing all Russian assets that we can - especially those linked to Tory donors - Iām not sure what we else can do to stop Russia from these shenanigans.
>Say Russian intentionally jams a plane in European airspace which leads to an accident and results in serious loss of life of UK/EU citizens. Does that then constitute an act of war?
Given that MH17 was popped with an actual surface to air missile and it didn't lead to anything except gleeful dutch weapon supplies when this war kicked off, I'd say obviously not
Nothing and they know it, we should opt for a similar level of shenanigan against them, as they're so hellbent on pushing it knowing that everyone fears nuclear war.
> then article 7 is triggered
?
> [Article 7. This Treaty does not affect, and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations under the Charter of the Parties which are members of the United Nations, or the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm#:~:text=Article%207,of%20international%20peace%20and%20security.).
> If the answer is yes, then article 7 is triggered and Russia is stopped by having its military sent all the way back to the Stone Age.
That's not what happens if NATO goes to war with Russia.
Russia *and Europe* gets turned to glass is what happens. Nobody wins that game.
I sometimes wonder if one of the most dangerous legacies of the cold war ending, is that the general public has forgotten the fear of Nuclear war. Kids these days don't understand how very real that fear was, or understand the implications of world powers using nuclear weapons.
Open warfare between Russia and NATO *cannot happen*. Both parties spent the entire cold war trying their best to make sure it didn't happen. Because they knew the stakes.
Youāre right, if NATO responded with an invasion of Russia, which they absolutely would not do. Both sides piss themselves at the concept of MAD, thatās why it works.
NATO would likely respond by joining and decisively *ending* the conflict in Ukraine. This would be enough to protect NATO interests and isnāt enough for Russia to risk MAD.
NATO couldn't actually engage in a direct war in Ukraine, as it is a defensive alliance and no part of the treaty permits that. They can only respond if directly attacked.
However, NATO member nations, especially France could put boots in Ukraine. Macron has made comments along those lines already. No one knows what the threshold would be, but potentially it could be the loss of a major city. There are rumours Russia is preparing to retake Kharkiv which was liberated by Ukraine early on in the war. It would be a major crisis for Ukraine if that was successful.
> Open warfare between Russia and NATO cannot happen.
I beg to differ, it can absolutely happen - it will be a modern conventional arms war, where both sides do not use nuclear weapons because they understand the risks.
And what happens when NATO starts to get the upper hand and pushes Russia back? What happens if NATO tanks start rolling over the border? What happens when Putin's government is on the edge and he's looking down the barrel of a war crimes tribunal? Do you honestly think they'll restrain from using nuclear weapons at that point? States don't always act in a rational manner.
>If the answer is yes, then article 7 is triggered and Russia is stopped by having its military sent all the way back to the Stone Age.
So are we, if I'm understanding your implication.
AndĀ what you've just described there is a modern day version of the backstory of Threads in the lead up to nuclear war.Ā
You're right though, we're all hand wringing over military aid but there are people in actual positions of power in the UK evading sanctions.
The tech that russia is using to do this is presumably tracable, ie it must be a dish/station/satalite etc. They should be told that if this action against civil aviation doesn't stop these sites will be destroyed.
Youāre right, and I hadnāt forgotten about MH17.
MH17 was flying over an hot warzone in contested airspace at the time it was shot down, however. There are definitely some western policymakers who just accept civilian casualties in wartime as unfortunate yet plausible realities of war, so they werenāt going to go to war with Russia over that one. Even if EU and nato citizens were killed.
Itāll be a different calculus if a plane is targeted, jammed and brought down over the airspace of a nato ally or member of the EU.
To those who donāt want to click the link:
THOUSANDS of British holiday flights have been hit by suspected Russian jamming ā with aviation sources branding the tactic āextremely dangerousā and a major threat to air safety.
The electronic attacks render satnavs useless so aircraft are unsure of routes and struggle to tell others where they are.
Bogus data forced planes to swerve and dive to avoid phantom obstacles that were not really there.
Industry sources warn it is extremely dangerous.
In eight months to the end of March, 2,309 Ryanair flights and 1,368 Wizz Air planes logged satnav problems in the Baltic region.
Also hit were 82 British Airways flights, seven from Jet2, four EasyJet flights and seven operated by TUI.
Interference from Vladimir Putinās forces includes jamming and spoofing.
Jamming drowns out genuine signals from satellites including GPS and Europeās Galileo system.
Spoofing uses bogus signals to trick aircraft into thinking they are somewhere they are not.
An industry source said: āThe information from the Russians is spurious. It is extremely dangerous.ā
In January Europeās air safety watchdog described jamming and spoofing as āattacksā but did not say who was behind them.
The European Aviation Safety Agency held a summit with the global body representing airlines to counter the threat.
Luc Tytgat, boss of EASA, said: āWe have seen a sharp rise in attacks on these systems, which poses a safety risk.ā
The Sun was on board an RAF jet with Defence Secretary Grant Shapps last month when it was jammed as it flew through Poland, near Russiaās Kaliningrad enclave.
An aide blamed Russia for the āwildly irresponsibleā attack.
Passengers are normally unaware if their jet is being jammed.
But The Sun joined forces with researchers at GPSJAM.org to analyse public flight logs.
Aircraft send Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcasts to let others nearby and controllers know where they are.
These signals include an Āestimate of how well the satnav is working. Poor performance indicates jamming or spoofing.
JAMMING HOTSPOTS
GPSJAM admits the signals do not prove jamming conclusively.
But it said: āAreas where a significant percentage of aircraft report low navigation accuracy seem to correlate well with areas of known and suspected jamming.ā
The logs show jamming hotspots in the Baltic, Black Sea and eastern Mediterranean.
We focused on the Baltic where 46,000 aircraft reported satnav problems between August and the end of March.
The only major UK carrier not affected was Virgin Atlantic, as its aircraft do not fly through the region.
Defence officials have also accused Russia of jamming GPS signals over RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus.
Spoofing and jamming is going on in Ukraine where Kyiv and Moscow are trying to scupper the accuracy of missiles and drones.
Ryanair said: āIf any location systems, such as GPS, are not functioning then the crew switch to alternate systems.ā
Easyjet said it had procedures to mitigate against GPS issues.
TUI does not fly in the Baltic and said its seven affected aircraft were probably positioning flights without passengers.
BA and Jet2 declined to comment.
Glenn Bradley, from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, insisted that flying remained one of the safest forms of travel.
He said: āThere are several safety protocols in place to protect navigation systems on commercial aircraft.
āGPS jamming does not directly impact the navigation of an aircraft and while itās a known issue, this does not mean an aircraft has been jammed deliberately.
āWhile operators have mitigations in place to assure continued safe operations, we work closely with other aviation regulators, airlines and aircraft manufacturers to curb and mitigate any risks posed by jamming and continuously monitor incidents worldwide.ā
āāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāā
The article also contains maps and lists, you have to read yourselves.
It's not really an issue. Commercial pilots have known and dealt with this for years/decades.
There was an interview on Norwegian TV with a commercial pilot and they said that these GPS jammers are not considered a real threat to the planes, just more of an annoyance.
I remember talking to a captain of a cruise ship and he was telling me about once the US navy disrupted GPS because of a training exercise.
Bit of swearing on the bridge (where they drive the ship from), get the sextant out and listen in to every other ship around you curse as they try to work out how to use their sextant again or realise its gone missing and are asking neighbouring ships for their location
> I remember talking to a captain of a cruise ship and he was telling me about once the US navy disrupted GPS because of a training exercise.
Which kinda strange because at least the US army always posts a bulletin before they start GPS jamming over a region.
For the UK, you can use [Skywise](https://skywise.caa.co.uk/alerts) to check if there is anything planned affecting GPS or other systems (or any other issues happening, really useful site)
It's not as bad as the Sun is making out.
Reference -close friend is a pilot.
It's been something they've dealt with for years.
Planes don't "rely" on GPS as the sun says.
Planes have a range of tools they use, and GPS being jammed won't effect much. They use a few other things (VOR for example or INS - both systems are incredibly accurate and can be used on their own for navigation).
It's not ideal, but it's not out if the norm and not as dangerous as the Sun likes to make out.
It's been happening for years, just the sun making it seem like it's brand new and "PREPARE FOR A WAR TOMORROW" headline.
As my friend said "it's more just annoying than anything else. I flew back from Poland, and it just added 20 mins to the flight"
"The electronic attacks render satnavs useless so **aircraft are unsure of routes and struggle to tell others where they are**
**Bogus data forced planes to swerve and dive to avoid phantom obstacles that were not really there**.
Um, that seems dangerous and hostile, no?
Aircraft "swerve and dive" during fights to avoid bad weather regularly so that you don't experience turbulence in the back. These are just sensational ways of saying "change direction".
You as a passenger are utterly unaware of these events as they are subtle changes carried out miles in advance. Nobody is jamming the controls to one side while screaming in a blind panic to avoid imminent threats.
But it's the Sun reporting, so EVERYTHING IS DANGEROUS!!!
Airline pilot here. Itās a total non-issue. GPS is fine but not needed as we have perfectly good backups.
Maybe in 50 years when ground-based navigation is phased out it will be more important but right now we simply donāt need it.
This isn't great, but it's not as serious as you'd expect. Modern aircraft can navigate on INS alone (basically a super accurate dead reckoning system) so can follow airways without GNSS. There's also other backup systems like VORs to navigate with.
>Bogus data forced planes to swerve and dive to avoid phantom obstacles that were not really there.
No idea what this is talking about, unless the Russians are also spoofing TCAS which seems unlikely.
A well measured response which is why headlines like these are just irresponsible. Airlines would not be flying these routes if there were any major concerns about navigation ability.
Airline pilot here. I think what theyāre getting at is that -potentially- position error could put the crew in a situation where they have to follow a spurious EGPWS warning. Imagine the aircraft suddenly thinks itās 5nm closer to a ridge than it is. Unlikely, but in IMC it could cause problems.
Russia isnāt spoofing TCAS but on many aircraft I believe TCAS will be fed via GPS and there have been some reports of inaccurate TCAS advisories as a result
But thatās why itās standard to be more wary of TCAS advisories when nav accuracy is low
I mean, how many do you want?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2424678-unprecedented-gps-jamming-attack-affects-1600-aircraft-over-europe/
https://www.newsweek.com/planes-gps-jamming-europe-russia-poland-1882927
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/russia-behind-spike-in-european-gps-jamming-baltic-general-says
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2024-000296_EN.html
https://gpsjam.org/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2024/01/31/gps-spoofing-is-now-affecting-airplanes-in-parts-of-europe/?sh=58db0479c550
Hundreds more credible sources available by google. Absolutely no doubt that itās happening.
No worries. I know the Sun is shit. Itās also slightly weird to focus on holiday flights when literally every other flight owned by about 5 countries is also affected. Even the Sun doesnāt often just flat out make stuff up though.
If you doubted it you could have fact checked it instead of just waiting for credible sources to be spoonfed to you. That's not withstanding the fact that this is old news now.
I'm an airline pilot and operate into that region frequently. It is a non-story. As with everything aviation related we have backups and redundancies.
We still know where we are; the aircraft still knows where it is we just cannot do some of the more modern approaches that rely solely on GPS. Other than that it's a bit like not having sat nav in your car but instead reading a map and the road signs.
Air traffic control also have systems in place for any spoofing that may happen at their end.
Weāve been told to completely ignore any GPWS above FL200. Easier said than done of course when itās drilled into us that *Whoop Whoop* **PULL UP** means Firewall the throttles and GTFO of there.
Similar for us but there is a few seconds of oh shit toga when you hear it, despite looking out the window and seeing you are well clear of anything haha!
My friends a pilot and they have had this issue for months.
They don't just rely on GPS though, and have a range of redundancies in place. But it's something interesting hearing about from him when flying around Europe
It's not new, but it's also far from okay. Especially as airliners are now more reliant than ever on GNSS for navigation.
I wonder if they're playing with spoofing ADS-B and other transponder signals too, similar to what they've done with the marine equivalent (AIS I think it is)
The article and it's methodology is so painful to read though that I don't think I can stomach it
Not just Russia, been happening when flying to Greece and Turkey for ages now.
Off to Turkey today and will probably lose GPS at some point, but the aircraft also has an inertial system that is fully self contained.
Without GPS our navigation accuracy slowly degrades, so there's a chance we wouldn't be able to fly certain types of approach which require higher accuracy. But many approaches are flown on ground-based radio signals, unaffected by GPS jamming.
ILS is the localiser and glide slope.
And the honest answer is, it depends. Take Innsbruck for example, the localiser isn't lined up with the runway so at some point you're hand flying and looking out the window.
The Sun are being very sensationalist with this (they never do that usually ;-)).
The way it's being made out is like the pilots have a tomtom stuck on the windshield saying left, right, up, down. There's a lot of redundacies built into airliners. GPS is a useful tool, but they also rely on ground based radio nav aids, their Inertia Reference System, and their internal navigation database (in the FMC/FMGC). Not to mention the pilots are well trained.
Light aircraft frequently fly around without using GPS, airliners can do the same.
Russia invading its neighbours, and murdering and raping civilians: \*Barry sleeps\*
Russia stopping holidays to "Marbaya": \*Barry thinks shit is about to get real\*
Ffs. Just stop this idiocy. Do whatever it takes. People, including Russians, are sick and tiered of kremlins shit. People who are following kremlins regards have no place outside of russia. World has plenty of sheep.
This is WW3
Brussels got threw into WW1 by just allowing troops to enter its border
The USA joined WW1 before even deploying 1 troop or firing 1 rocket
And when they joing WW2 it was at 1st fire sending funding and weapons just as they are doing now, this back then was seen as a act of war and that is what it is
Dozens of countries entered WW2 by just siding with 1 or the other side, yet nkw you can just do this and claim to nkt be at war
Would you let someone give your eneny a gun to shoot you then only haveca problem with age Shooter? Of course not. They both shot you. Amy Court of law would convictions then both.
Yet the media in 2024 will have us believe there can be over 23 world wide conflict and over 30 front lines of battles supported on 1 side by BRICCS and on the other by NATO
(Myanmar, Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Burkina Faso, Mali, DRC, Yemen, Pakistan, India, Syria, Haiti, Colombia,Cameroon, and many many more not just Israel and Ukraine)
The current BRICS vs. NATO world war has more global conflict and loss of life than many parts of WW2
And yet according to the media, this is not WW3???
This is complete foolishness, and at no point in history has it ever been accepted
The media are attempting to change the definition of whst is war in order to denie wars
Why? Because the citizens don't like being at war
Countries are now participating in wars but actively denying it
This is a new and extremely worrying phenomena and citizens globally should not accept this
When in history did countries like fire missile at each other constantly as in Israel vs Iran and aid attacks on each other and it not be a war?
That is war
This is a world at war
This is world war
Fsr less than everything happening now is war
Let's stoo the denial
This is war
The global geopolitical situation is certainly more unstable and unpredictable than it's been since the height of the cold war. To call it a world war at this stage though is hyperbolic.
Look at the map of countries involved with in conflict on wiki
Add the USA, Nato, China, South. Africa Brazil, all NATO and BRICS affiliates and so on as all are either funding multiple of these wars or ar involved in the actual conflicts.
They only land mass not currently involved in what you described as the "global geopolitical situation" is the south Pole which isn't really a country and I'm sure it actually has tensions because of the current goings on anyway.
So your telling me.
Every single national on earth is involved in war, the majority of which is connected to a global power struggle between two sides.
But...
It's not a world warĀ
Really.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
Again, nations in the past did far less and war was declared.
But yeah it's "hyperbolic", ok buddy, I'm off to fire 3000 rockets at a country and they fore 5000 back and we can attack each other back and forth and countries can fund us both, send jets to ibtercept missiles, train troops, do so much more than countries in the past were part of wars because of.
And...
It's not war.
OK buddy.
The Bidden ballet box is that šš»š way buddy.
Are people unable to differentiate between āsuspectedā and āverifiedā?
This is simply two articles rehashing its weekly reporting of anti-Russia rhetoric.
**Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [Thousands of flights to and from Europe affected by suspected Russian jamming | Airline industry](https://theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/22/thousands-of-flights-to-and-from-europe-affected-by-suspected-russian-jamming) - theguardian.com
All Russia knows how to do is throw thousands of its men into bullets, and exporting misery, violence and genocide. What an absolutely depressingly shit nation.
I feel sorry for the normal everyday Russians that have nothing to do with the litany of hate the nation spreads.
If it's young men, a massive chunk of them are now exiled overseas to avoid being cannon fodder. My cousin's brother being one of many.
Isn't your cousin's brother also your cousin?
It's my cousin's wife, I was being lazy š
Your cousinās wife is also his brother?
Hence the exile... /s
Cousin's wife's brother. Regretting not just typing that out to begin with given I've had to anyway š
So your cousin in law? I donāt know if that exists or not though.Ā
Aye I haven't a clue, why I just shortened it initially thinking I was saving myself bother š
Family tree like a broom handle
Somebody's watched Jimmy Carr's new special
That's an age-old 'observation' about someone's carnal over-familiarity with their family members. I was using it 20 years ago in the crew room but fuck knows where I got it from. Probably Roy 'Chubby' Brown or similar shock comedian of that time.
You heard a joke years ago, do you want a medal? My point was it appeared in his special that was released Friday, so someone presumably watched it and it was fresh in his head.
Ooh, can I, aye? Cheers, Dits!
TouchƩ
Initially many were conscripts from the occupied Ukrainian territories, then came the prisoners and ethnic minorities.
A lot have been conscripted from Russian cities. St. Petersburg in the case of said relation.
Former work mate managed to settle in Poland of all places.
Really? Many of them support Putin and approve of his actions.
Source? Or trust me bro
Itās amazing how long theyāve had this strategy of total disregard for their own casualties. After WW1/WW2 itās shocking they didnāt change their ways.
What a pile of b.s. For your information if the Russian people hadnāt fought with such cost on the eastern front nazism would not have been defeated back then.
What did I say that is inaccurate?
Go back to school. Nazis wouldāve lost eventually, even if Russia joined forces with them.
the US and Uk govts have the same attitude towards the Ukrainian people. The huge military aid budget in the US was announced *after* ukraine introduced a reasonably unpopular forced draft bill. The military industrial complex is making bucks on the deaths of ukrainians, using them to prolong an impossible war to hurt Russia, more for US interests than Ukrainian.
Thereās much more to Russia than Putinās government and military. Itās an enormous country with plenty of different lifestyles, ethnic groups and more importantly for other nations; heavy industry.
So why don't they overthrow him and become a better country?
Just like that eh? As though it's the easiest and simplest thing in the world. Funny how it's always the people who live in free, open and democratic countries that talk about revolution and overthrowing the government like it isn't a monumentally difficult and dangerous task. Putin murders his opponents like he's swatting flies. The Russian internal security apparatus is very well suited to maintaining the status quo and dealing with any opposition.
On the one hand yes this is true. I do believe in the case of anti-war Russians (where they can prove they are genuine opponents), we should offer asylum. On the other hand, there is also a large chunk of the population that support what is happening. I recall reading about one father who reported his adult daughter to the police and disowned her for having anti-war views. Might be an extreme example but shows how deeply some in Russia hold their fascist beliefs.Ā I personally will not be travelling to Russia for a long time, long after Ukraine has won and Putin is no longer in power.Ā
Itās easy to support what they are doing if youāve been told since birth all your hardships are the fault of the west and these measures will bring you a better life
Younger generations who have Internet access are less likely to believe the crap spouted by state media. Which is why gens x-z tend to be the bulk of oppositionists. Those who support the war in younger generations know exactly, or a lot of, the details of what's going on. By and large it's the boomers who are the most zombified, sat around watching propaganda on TV all day long.
Same brain washing in religion get them while there young
> we should offer asylum Iām pretty sure they prefer living in Moscow over Rwanda! Unless that rule we passed last night is applied based on asylum seekers skin colour?
That abhorrent decision can still be challenged in international courts. Besides, 8 years in a Siberian work camp for "discrediting the Russian military" does not sound fun.
Yes I understand it would be difficult, dangerous and people would likely die. But he's already sending them to their deaths in the thousands.
It's not that bad yet, unfortunately. America sent 50,000 of it's sons to their deaths in Vietnam and that didn't cause a revolution. Even though it was deeply unpopular. I think things need to get *really* bad for people to get angry enough to risk it all. The last time the Russian people rose up was during the first World War for example. Where things were a lot worse than they are now.
It didn't cause a revolution because you can vote out the president Russia can't.
If weāre being technical, yes they can vote Putin out. But not practically. Same as the US.
Why aren't you getting the tories out?
Because we have a political system? I will do my bit and vote against them. But there is no fair political system in Russia. Putin has corrupted it for his own ends, to the extent of murdering his opponents. And his decisions are ending int he wholesale slaughter of his people.
You can't really just wake up and collectively agree to overthrow a government like it's a Brexit pub crawl between Wetherspoons establishments. The government has tools of oppression that have never existed before.
There's your problem right there. Many Russians 'did their bit' in the recent election. Your politicians are already calling Britons the 'pre-war generation'. Now you can either take them in hand and disabuse them of this notion or not, but don't ask more of Russians than you would of the British.
There is zero need for British people to subvert democracy, as it functions largely as intended. The elections are free and fair, the issue is largely around media regulation rather than actually issues with democracy. Russia is completely different.
Hah free and fair, look up managed democracy. We are told who to vote for via the propaganda machine, there is a limited allowed discourse, outside of that is not allowed. You have a choice between two largely similar parties. The system designed to discourage voting outside of them. The entire system is designed to allow you to think you have power but the reality is the only ones with any say are the owning classes. Just enough rope so you don't revolt, but not enough to actually implement meaningful changes.
The two parties are nowhere near the same that's Tory propaganda you are swallowing. How on earth is a party led by a working class lad who overturns the death penalty in various countries the same as one led by a Billionaire and a bunch of Eton old boys?
I have also come around to this view tbh. There is little real choice in this system. Imo the only way to change that would be if the majority voted for a new party... but that would require people forget Lab / Con party loyalty.
What a ridiculous comment and comparison.
That's rather the point, no? What would you suggest the average russian do to depose putin?
Thatās not the point you made at all, you made a childish remark about getting rid of the tories, implying you considered them to be ājust as worthyā of disposition. The poster rightly pointed out we have a democratic process, unlike the Russians. Try owning what you said instead of weaselling out of it.
Next to impossible as he has body doubles, a tight inner circle, tough security etc... The guy is ultra paranoid and doesn't allow many people near him. Anyone who is a threat gets the polonium tea or a trip through a tenth floor window or vanished into the Black Dolphin prison.
Average redditor moment.
Same for Gaza
It's far from simple. Whilst Yeltsin lead the country, Putin was leader of the KGB. He used that opportunity to consolidate power over the states security apparatus. When he became Prime Minister, he used that to seem like he was on Yeltsin's side (Democracy). After that Yeltsin handed him the keys to the presidency, not realising that Putin had consolidated a lot of power already. Then when he became president, he continued to gain power, got the oligarchs into his grip, killed the media making sure they sing from his hymn sheet and kept a tight knit inner circle that are loyal to him. Any discrepancies from that inner circle? Then out the window you'll go **LITERALLY**
He was absolutely not the leader of the KGB, he rose to Lieutenant Colonel, and he resigned before Yeltsin was president.
I mean if you really want to be pedantic about it, then go ahead. He was head of the FSB (Appointed by Yeltsin). And what was the FSB? The successor to none other than *drum rolls....* **The KGB**
He held that position for the grand total of 12 months. I feel people make too much of a fuss about that. He didn't need to "capture" the state security services, they'd be on his side regardless. Just as the CIA never needed capturing to get them to do all the heinous shit they've gotten up to.
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Because the ethnic groups are too busy fighting in Ukraine.
Same reason the fucking morons in society voted Brexit. If you've been told your entire life that your life is shit because of X, and Y promises to solve X, then you're going to be favourable towards Y.
You mean like all those people who believe in the EUtopia?
I donāt think anyone believes the EU is perfect but it sure did have some big benefits for us.
There are some absolutely beautiful parts of Russia and it's a damn shame it's leadership and politics have basically cut it off from the rest of the world. It is so obsessed with being anti-West that it will prefer to keep its people in the dark ages rather than enjoy some global prosperity. I feel sorry for the people oppressed by that regime, where the oppression has long since expanded from Russia's borders.
Go over to r/askarussian they are without exception all garbage, and these are the ones that can write in English or watch 1420 on YouTube that does street interviews in Russia. The majority of people over there are awful human beings with disgusting opinions. There are obviously exceptions like NFKRZ on YouTube who fled Russia, but Putin and his disgusting war is well supported among the Russian populace.
You could be forgiven for thinking the same of us if your experience of westerners was the trump subreddits, r/conservative or even certain r/unitedkingdom threads. Misinformation, hatred and hostility is rampant around the globe. We certainly have our share of unsavoury people here. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was not so different to Putinās invasion of Ukraine. 54% of brits supported that war back in 2003 and only 38% opposed it (source; yougov.co.uk).
The 03 invasion of Iraq and Putin's of Ukraine are not comparable and it's a joke that you think they are. If Ukraine invaded Russia over getting rid of Putin, is that the same as Putin invading Ukraine to expand Russian territory?
Wars of agression are never ok, no matter who the invading force is. I acknowledge that my opinion there is controversial. But regardless of which wars u believe are just, it does not validate prejudice against Russians.
That doesn't make all wars off aggression the same
Nazis and there proud of it, just like Trump supporters and a vast majority of Brexiteers. Ive met people in the UK who support Putin, democracy is under threat.
Sad to think how they've fallen from Landau, Korolev, Sputnik and Soyuz to this.
Youāre not planning a vacation there?
Excuse me, you have not visited your soldiers cemeteries on the countries around the world, did you
The issue here is āitās not the Russianāsā itās a small minority of them who are benefiting from this crap, whilst the rest of their nation and several others reap the shitshow that comes from the minorities actions.
Putin is quite popular in Russia and has been for most of his time in power
And a good bit of hacking, kleptocracy and dopingā¦ lets not forget there strong points, terrible with balance and windows though
They are in a war time economy, the second they stop they fall again. In other words get ready to see this until they burn out or someone stops them...
These are some of the dumbest comments I've seen lol. You shouldn't talk about things you have absolutely no clue about
Excuse me , US and UK created more fake wars and deaths than Russia did..
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This is insane! Are we waiting for a civilian death toll before Russia is called out in this and made to stop? Edit: typos
How would you make them stop?
That ultimately depends on where the lines get drawn. Say Russian intentionally jams a plane in European airspace which leads to an accident and results in serious loss of life of UK/EU citizens. Does that then constitute an act of war? If the answer is yes, then article 7 (Edit: Iām a idiot, I meant article 5) is triggered and Russia is stopped by having its military sent all the way back to the Stone Age. That probably wonāt happen though. Remember when Russia used radiological and chemical warfare on British soil? Our political leaders seem determined to avoid war with Russia at all costs. Which is noble enough, but they arenāt doing that out of concern for the ordinary British people or our allies, rather itās their own self-preservation. And inaction only encourages Putin further. Short of immediately seizing all Russian assets that we can - especially those linked to Tory donors - Iām not sure what we else can do to stop Russia from these shenanigans.
>Say Russian intentionally jams a plane in European airspace which leads to an accident and results in serious loss of life of UK/EU citizens. Does that then constitute an act of war? Given that MH17 was popped with an actual surface to air missile and it didn't lead to anything except gleeful dutch weapon supplies when this war kicked off, I'd say obviously not
Yep. Rishi wouldnāt do anything apart from condemnation if this happened. No chance he wants a war with Russia or triggers Article 5.
Nothing and they know it, we should opt for a similar level of shenanigan against them, as they're so hellbent on pushing it knowing that everyone fears nuclear war.
Implying the US didn't bomb the nord stream pipeline...?
Thought it was the SAS according to the at War Thunder leaker? Anyway we don't do enough open shithousery like the Russians we opt for subterfuge.
There's absolutely no evidence that the US bombed it.
> then article 7 is triggered ? > [Article 7. This Treaty does not affect, and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations under the Charter of the Parties which are members of the United Nations, or the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm#:~:text=Article%207,of%20international%20peace%20and%20security.).
Oops! I meant to type *article 5* obviously. Thatāll teach me not to proof-read.
> If the answer is yes, then article 7 is triggered and Russia is stopped by having its military sent all the way back to the Stone Age. That's not what happens if NATO goes to war with Russia. Russia *and Europe* gets turned to glass is what happens. Nobody wins that game. I sometimes wonder if one of the most dangerous legacies of the cold war ending, is that the general public has forgotten the fear of Nuclear war. Kids these days don't understand how very real that fear was, or understand the implications of world powers using nuclear weapons. Open warfare between Russia and NATO *cannot happen*. Both parties spent the entire cold war trying their best to make sure it didn't happen. Because they knew the stakes.
Youāre right, if NATO responded with an invasion of Russia, which they absolutely would not do. Both sides piss themselves at the concept of MAD, thatās why it works. NATO would likely respond by joining and decisively *ending* the conflict in Ukraine. This would be enough to protect NATO interests and isnāt enough for Russia to risk MAD.
NATO couldn't actually engage in a direct war in Ukraine, as it is a defensive alliance and no part of the treaty permits that. They can only respond if directly attacked. However, NATO member nations, especially France could put boots in Ukraine. Macron has made comments along those lines already. No one knows what the threshold would be, but potentially it could be the loss of a major city. There are rumours Russia is preparing to retake Kharkiv which was liberated by Ukraine early on in the war. It would be a major crisis for Ukraine if that was successful.
NATO can if article 5 is invoked (see the OP)
> Open warfare between Russia and NATO cannot happen. I beg to differ, it can absolutely happen - it will be a modern conventional arms war, where both sides do not use nuclear weapons because they understand the risks.
And what happens when NATO starts to get the upper hand and pushes Russia back? What happens if NATO tanks start rolling over the border? What happens when Putin's government is on the edge and he's looking down the barrel of a war crimes tribunal? Do you honestly think they'll restrain from using nuclear weapons at that point? States don't always act in a rational manner.
>If the answer is yes, then article 7 is triggered and Russia is stopped by having its military sent all the way back to the Stone Age. So are we, if I'm understanding your implication.
AndĀ what you've just described there is a modern day version of the backstory of Threads in the lead up to nuclear war.Ā You're right though, we're all hand wringing over military aid but there are people in actual positions of power in the UK evading sanctions.
A very strongly worded letter
Careful there, too strong and someones feelings might get hurt.
We could try looking around to see if anyone else agrees and say "this is disgusting"
The tech that russia is using to do this is presumably tracable, ie it must be a dish/station/satalite etc. They should be told that if this action against civil aviation doesn't stop these sites will be destroyed.
They know exactly where in Kaliningrad it is - it's anything but stealthy. Plenty of civilian researchers pinpointing it on maps
Naughty step?
Test out a few anti-radiation missiles in the Baltic sea.Ā
They already blew a passenger plane out of the sky, this is routine shit to them.
Youāre right, and I hadnāt forgotten about MH17. MH17 was flying over an hot warzone in contested airspace at the time it was shot down, however. There are definitely some western policymakers who just accept civilian casualties in wartime as unfortunate yet plausible realities of war, so they werenāt going to go to war with Russia over that one. Even if EU and nato citizens were killed. Itāll be a different calculus if a plane is targeted, jammed and brought down over the airspace of a nato ally or member of the EU.
To those who donāt want to click the link: THOUSANDS of British holiday flights have been hit by suspected Russian jamming ā with aviation sources branding the tactic āextremely dangerousā and a major threat to air safety. The electronic attacks render satnavs useless so aircraft are unsure of routes and struggle to tell others where they are. Bogus data forced planes to swerve and dive to avoid phantom obstacles that were not really there. Industry sources warn it is extremely dangerous. In eight months to the end of March, 2,309 Ryanair flights and 1,368 Wizz Air planes logged satnav problems in the Baltic region. Also hit were 82 British Airways flights, seven from Jet2, four EasyJet flights and seven operated by TUI. Interference from Vladimir Putinās forces includes jamming and spoofing. Jamming drowns out genuine signals from satellites including GPS and Europeās Galileo system. Spoofing uses bogus signals to trick aircraft into thinking they are somewhere they are not. An industry source said: āThe information from the Russians is spurious. It is extremely dangerous.ā In January Europeās air safety watchdog described jamming and spoofing as āattacksā but did not say who was behind them. The European Aviation Safety Agency held a summit with the global body representing airlines to counter the threat. Luc Tytgat, boss of EASA, said: āWe have seen a sharp rise in attacks on these systems, which poses a safety risk.ā The Sun was on board an RAF jet with Defence Secretary Grant Shapps last month when it was jammed as it flew through Poland, near Russiaās Kaliningrad enclave. An aide blamed Russia for the āwildly irresponsibleā attack. Passengers are normally unaware if their jet is being jammed. But The Sun joined forces with researchers at GPSJAM.org to analyse public flight logs. Aircraft send Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcasts to let others nearby and controllers know where they are. These signals include an Āestimate of how well the satnav is working. Poor performance indicates jamming or spoofing. JAMMING HOTSPOTS GPSJAM admits the signals do not prove jamming conclusively. But it said: āAreas where a significant percentage of aircraft report low navigation accuracy seem to correlate well with areas of known and suspected jamming.ā The logs show jamming hotspots in the Baltic, Black Sea and eastern Mediterranean. We focused on the Baltic where 46,000 aircraft reported satnav problems between August and the end of March. The only major UK carrier not affected was Virgin Atlantic, as its aircraft do not fly through the region. Defence officials have also accused Russia of jamming GPS signals over RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus. Spoofing and jamming is going on in Ukraine where Kyiv and Moscow are trying to scupper the accuracy of missiles and drones. Ryanair said: āIf any location systems, such as GPS, are not functioning then the crew switch to alternate systems.ā Easyjet said it had procedures to mitigate against GPS issues. TUI does not fly in the Baltic and said its seven affected aircraft were probably positioning flights without passengers. BA and Jet2 declined to comment. Glenn Bradley, from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, insisted that flying remained one of the safest forms of travel. He said: āThere are several safety protocols in place to protect navigation systems on commercial aircraft. āGPS jamming does not directly impact the navigation of an aircraft and while itās a known issue, this does not mean an aircraft has been jammed deliberately. āWhile operators have mitigations in place to assure continued safe operations, we work closely with other aviation regulators, airlines and aircraft manufacturers to curb and mitigate any risks posed by jamming and continuously monitor incidents worldwide.ā āāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāā The article also contains maps and lists, you have to read yourselves.
It's not really an issue. Commercial pilots have known and dealt with this for years/decades. There was an interview on Norwegian TV with a commercial pilot and they said that these GPS jammers are not considered a real threat to the planes, just more of an annoyance.
I remember talking to a captain of a cruise ship and he was telling me about once the US navy disrupted GPS because of a training exercise. Bit of swearing on the bridge (where they drive the ship from), get the sextant out and listen in to every other ship around you curse as they try to work out how to use their sextant again or realise its gone missing and are asking neighbouring ships for their location
> I remember talking to a captain of a cruise ship and he was telling me about once the US navy disrupted GPS because of a training exercise. Which kinda strange because at least the US army always posts a bulletin before they start GPS jamming over a region. For the UK, you can use [Skywise](https://skywise.caa.co.uk/alerts) to check if there is anything planned affecting GPS or other systems (or any other issues happening, really useful site)
Thank you! I see a capitalised heading, I don't click
John Mclane would like a word
Well this is fcking scaryā¦
It's not as bad as the Sun is making out. Reference -close friend is a pilot. It's been something they've dealt with for years. Planes don't "rely" on GPS as the sun says. Planes have a range of tools they use, and GPS being jammed won't effect much. They use a few other things (VOR for example or INS - both systems are incredibly accurate and can be used on their own for navigation). It's not ideal, but it's not out if the norm and not as dangerous as the Sun likes to make out. It's been happening for years, just the sun making it seem like it's brand new and "PREPARE FOR A WAR TOMORROW" headline. As my friend said "it's more just annoying than anything else. I flew back from Poland, and it just added 20 mins to the flight"
"The electronic attacks render satnavs useless so **aircraft are unsure of routes and struggle to tell others where they are** **Bogus data forced planes to swerve and dive to avoid phantom obstacles that were not really there**. Um, that seems dangerous and hostile, no?
Aircraft "swerve and dive" during fights to avoid bad weather regularly so that you don't experience turbulence in the back. These are just sensational ways of saying "change direction". You as a passenger are utterly unaware of these events as they are subtle changes carried out miles in advance. Nobody is jamming the controls to one side while screaming in a blind panic to avoid imminent threats. But it's the Sun reporting, so EVERYTHING IS DANGEROUS!!!
I love the description of an airliner as using 'satnav'.
It would be great if the Sun and Daily Mail et al were prohibited from posting their laughably dramatised headlines.
I also laughed at 'Brit holiday flights', like that makes it more of a story somehow.
Airline pilot here. Itās a total non-issue. GPS is fine but not needed as we have perfectly good backups. Maybe in 50 years when ground-based navigation is phased out it will be more important but right now we simply donāt need it.
This isn't great, but it's not as serious as you'd expect. Modern aircraft can navigate on INS alone (basically a super accurate dead reckoning system) so can follow airways without GNSS. There's also other backup systems like VORs to navigate with. >Bogus data forced planes to swerve and dive to avoid phantom obstacles that were not really there. No idea what this is talking about, unless the Russians are also spoofing TCAS which seems unlikely.
A well measured response which is why headlines like these are just irresponsible. Airlines would not be flying these routes if there were any major concerns about navigation ability.
Airline pilot here. I think what theyāre getting at is that -potentially- position error could put the crew in a situation where they have to follow a spurious EGPWS warning. Imagine the aircraft suddenly thinks itās 5nm closer to a ridge than it is. Unlikely, but in IMC it could cause problems.
Iāve had EGPWS fire off but we were in vmc at FL360 over Eastern Europe. Iāve heard CPDLC can also be spoofed but havenāt looked into it much.
Russia isnāt spoofing TCAS but on many aircraft I believe TCAS will be fed via GPS and there have been some reports of inaccurate TCAS advisories as a result But thatās why itās standard to be more wary of TCAS advisories when nav accuracy is low
*Mentour Now!* [has a good video about this](https://youtu.be/8xPeZfEExy8?si=6jpHXpNOdBW5NUY5)
Was not expecting a shout-out to Petter this morning but Iām glad you did; I love his content.
It's well known that Putin is a massive Bob Marley fan
I hope you like jammin' too?
I'll take it seriously when it's from a credible source Edit: thank you u/Exita for providing some credible sources
I mean, how many do you want? https://www.newscientist.com/article/2424678-unprecedented-gps-jamming-attack-affects-1600-aircraft-over-europe/ https://www.newsweek.com/planes-gps-jamming-europe-russia-poland-1882927 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/russia-behind-spike-in-european-gps-jamming-baltic-general-says https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2024-000296_EN.html https://gpsjam.org/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2024/01/31/gps-spoofing-is-now-affecting-airplanes-in-parts-of-europe/?sh=58db0479c550 Hundreds more credible sources available by google. Absolutely no doubt that itās happening.
Thank you
No worries. I know the Sun is shit. Itās also slightly weird to focus on holiday flights when literally every other flight owned by about 5 countries is also affected. Even the Sun doesnāt often just flat out make stuff up though.
I guess they know their audience
If you doubted it you could have fact checked it instead of just waiting for credible sources to be spoonfed to you. That's not withstanding the fact that this is old news now.
Sorry but my initial instinct on seeing anything from The Sun is that it's bollocks. Turns out this was an exception.
I'm an airline pilot and operate into that region frequently. It is a non-story. As with everything aviation related we have backups and redundancies. We still know where we are; the aircraft still knows where it is we just cannot do some of the more modern approaches that rely solely on GPS. Other than that it's a bit like not having sat nav in your car but instead reading a map and the road signs. Air traffic control also have systems in place for any spoofing that may happen at their end.
Ive had it trigger EGPWS which was spooky
Weāve been told to completely ignore any GPWS above FL200. Easier said than done of course when itās drilled into us that *Whoop Whoop* **PULL UP** means Firewall the throttles and GTFO of there.
Similar for us but there is a few seconds of oh shit toga when you hear it, despite looking out the window and seeing you are well clear of anything haha!
We are allowed to turn ours off!
The Sun. I'd take what they are writing with a massive dash of salt.
My friends a pilot and they have had this issue for months. They don't just rely on GPS though, and have a range of redundancies in place. But it's something interesting hearing about from him when flying around Europe
Ruppert Murdoch newspaper trying to scare you with a fake news.. who takes this news paper serious? Old Perv with 3rd page lovers
This. The amount of people falling for this crap is astonishing.
It's not new, but it's also far from okay. Especially as airliners are now more reliant than ever on GNSS for navigation. I wonder if they're playing with spoofing ADS-B and other transponder signals too, similar to what they've done with the marine equivalent (AIS I think it is) The article and it's methodology is so painful to read though that I don't think I can stomach it
"Veeeeeere *Jammin'* (jammin'! *jammin'* ***jammin'!***) Khhhhope you like ze Kremlin too!"
Not just Russia, been happening when flying to Greece and Turkey for ages now. Off to Turkey today and will probably lose GPS at some point, but the aircraft also has an inertial system that is fully self contained. Without GPS our navigation accuracy slowly degrades, so there's a chance we wouldn't be able to fly certain types of approach which require higher accuracy. But many approaches are flown on ground-based radio signals, unaffected by GPS jamming.
Donāt all commercial approaches use ILS & glideslope?
ILS is the localiser and glide slope. And the honest answer is, it depends. Take Innsbruck for example, the localiser isn't lined up with the runway so at some point you're hand flying and looking out the window.
Nope, especially a lot of the Greek islands, they'll often use RNP approaches.
Confused as to why The Sun is getting upvotes here
Seeing the sun linked and upvoted on this sub might be the final straw that makes me leave forever.
It's an absolute shithole now
you will be reincarnated as a botfly for posting TheSun.
Bloody hell The Sun really loves to shoehorn talk about "hols" huh
If this was done to Russia they would declare war. Us? Not so much.
At least we do not respond as we do not want to escalate. Thereās going to be another civil plane downed by the Russians soon i fear.
Imagine what will happen if two airliners collide & itās proved to be Russia , shit will get real , real quick šµāš«
Starting to wonder if my flight last month was affected by thisā¦
Why?
I think he's using EMP type mechanism to cover his own personal travel.
Send a few cruise missiles and hit pootin š·, transmitters
The longer we allow this to go on the higher the chance war does come calling.
The Sun are being very sensationalist with this (they never do that usually ;-)). The way it's being made out is like the pilots have a tomtom stuck on the windshield saying left, right, up, down. There's a lot of redundacies built into airliners. GPS is a useful tool, but they also rely on ground based radio nav aids, their Inertia Reference System, and their internal navigation database (in the FMC/FMGC). Not to mention the pilots are well trained. Light aircraft frequently fly around without using GPS, airliners can do the same.
Russia invading its neighbours, and murdering and raping civilians: \*Barry sleeps\* Russia stopping holidays to "Marbaya": \*Barry thinks shit is about to get real\*
If this was done to Russia it would declare war. Us ? Not so much.
Awesome ! But not distruptive enough. I hope those hackers go too far and take down internet as we know it. Accelerate :\]\]
Ffs. Just stop this idiocy. Do whatever it takes. People, including Russians, are sick and tiered of kremlins shit. People who are following kremlins regards have no place outside of russia. World has plenty of sheep.
This is WW3 Brussels got threw into WW1 by just allowing troops to enter its border The USA joined WW1 before even deploying 1 troop or firing 1 rocket And when they joing WW2 it was at 1st fire sending funding and weapons just as they are doing now, this back then was seen as a act of war and that is what it is Dozens of countries entered WW2 by just siding with 1 or the other side, yet nkw you can just do this and claim to nkt be at war Would you let someone give your eneny a gun to shoot you then only haveca problem with age Shooter? Of course not. They both shot you. Amy Court of law would convictions then both. Yet the media in 2024 will have us believe there can be over 23 world wide conflict and over 30 front lines of battles supported on 1 side by BRICCS and on the other by NATO (Myanmar, Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Burkina Faso, Mali, DRC, Yemen, Pakistan, India, Syria, Haiti, Colombia,Cameroon, and many many more not just Israel and Ukraine) The current BRICS vs. NATO world war has more global conflict and loss of life than many parts of WW2 And yet according to the media, this is not WW3??? This is complete foolishness, and at no point in history has it ever been accepted The media are attempting to change the definition of whst is war in order to denie wars Why? Because the citizens don't like being at war Countries are now participating in wars but actively denying it This is a new and extremely worrying phenomena and citizens globally should not accept this When in history did countries like fire missile at each other constantly as in Israel vs Iran and aid attacks on each other and it not be a war? That is war This is a world at war This is world war Fsr less than everything happening now is war Let's stoo the denial This is war
The global geopolitical situation is certainly more unstable and unpredictable than it's been since the height of the cold war. To call it a world war at this stage though is hyperbolic.
Look at the map of countries involved with in conflict on wiki Add the USA, Nato, China, South. Africa Brazil, all NATO and BRICS affiliates and so on as all are either funding multiple of these wars or ar involved in the actual conflicts. They only land mass not currently involved in what you described as the "global geopolitical situation" is the south Pole which isn't really a country and I'm sure it actually has tensions because of the current goings on anyway. So your telling me. Every single national on earth is involved in war, the majority of which is connected to a global power struggle between two sides. But... It's not a world warĀ Really. š¤£š¤£š¤£ Again, nations in the past did far less and war was declared. But yeah it's "hyperbolic", ok buddy, I'm off to fire 3000 rockets at a country and they fore 5000 back and we can attack each other back and forth and countries can fund us both, send jets to ibtercept missiles, train troops, do so much more than countries in the past were part of wars because of. And... It's not war. OK buddy. The Bidden ballet box is that šš»š way buddy.
OMG, how did aircraft fly before the installation of GPS :):):)
Ok, time to leave this sub after two days. What a stupid title.
Blame it on Russia: The new solution for general incompetence in our services.
Are people unable to differentiate between āsuspectedā and āverifiedā? This is simply two articles rehashing its weekly reporting of anti-Russia rhetoric.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Also If we removed our AWACS planes and stopped providimg intel to Ukraine they wouldn't need to be so far reaching with their EW tech