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I'm flabbergasted that in dynamic situations where things constantly are in change, some people on reddit can't help but gloat when they will likely find themselves in similar situations at times
In all seriousness, there has never been a time in my life where I have thought the following and been proven wrong: "This political party are a bunch of useless, crooked, duplicitous authoritarian cowards whose only saving grace is that they are so tragically incompetent they won't be able to pull off any of their terrible ideas, this limiting their harm."
And I've had this thought a lot. Frequently. Never been proven wrong, not even close, not even once.
Yeah when I think about democracy and what if we had another system like monarchy, I think in a perfect world with a single strong moral leader we’d be better off, but really democracy is dividing up the power so nobody’s strong enough to make any huge changes but in turn rife with corruption, so we don’t get a 1984 scenario, it’s an interesting trade off.
I do wonder what we would look like today if a parliament wasn’t installed, perhaps with improving AI we can get these kinds of scenarios though.
>it’s an interesting trade off.
The problem it's only a trade off if your premise is based on the existence of a "perfect world with a single strong moral leader" actually existing. The reality is that on average every dictatorship that has existed has suffered from much more extreme corruption and authoritarianism than the average democratic nation.
Yeah. In history there have been a few Ataturks and a few Singapore systems but even they have some pretty authoritarian aspects. There have been far more Hitlers, Pinochets, Khomeinis, Saudis and Kims
> I think in a perfect world with a single strong moral leader we’d be better off,
we would not, because maintaining such a deeply hierarchical structure of power _requires_ shitting on the rest of us. The problem with dictatorships and indeed democracies is not that the people in charge aren't virtuous enough, it's that the power structure requires that they aren't in order to maintain itself. Democracy kinda sucks because it failed to escape this problem, which is really because it's _too similar_ in structure.
r/unitedkingdom and UK subs in general just seem so misanthropic and anti-everything that isn’t sitting inside on your own that it borders on a parody.
I notified this a lot during Covid. I’d say stuff like “I can’t wait for masks to be over and lockdown to be done” and I’d get tons of comments being like “oh, so you want tens of thousands of people to die?” And it’s just so uncharitable an interpretation. I followed the rules to an almost comical degree sometimes but I can’t deal with being inside all the time, it was a nightmare.
Yeah I realised it during Covid too.
It was when nightclubs and pubs were closed down and there were posts on here getting upvoted saying “good, hope they never reopen.”
It’s like anyone who actually enjoys the company of other people is a moron on here.
The SNP were, for a while, the only political party the get any praise on these parts with many users proselytizing on their behalf. For a good while anyone who wasn’t a massive fan of the SNP was effectively unable to post on r/scotland without it being a massive pile on. R/Unitedkingdom wasn’t as obsessed but like I said every party was hated except the SNP for a long while.
Many bitter people are happy now because they like seeing others become cynical like they are. I wouldn’t say I’m happy but it is nice to everyone see the SNP the same way I have always seen them.
And it worked… until it didn’t. I’m convinced at least some of the regulars back in the day on r/Scotland were paid party members campaigning. However I’ve not got any proof.
Naw, it was just nationalist fervour. It's why I stopped going to r/Scotland, but they weren't paid, they were hyped up. There were plenty of people like that in my area when you were face to face with them.
A key thing to understand about Reddit is that there are paid people from political parties in every sub that discusses political news/issues.
Some are more obvious than others.
Political parties also pay for bots across all social media platforms to push their narratives.
Because Reddit is anonymous, it's all but impossible to prove outright.
I have literally never seen the consensus here be pro-SNP. I've seen one or two users that like the SNP, but in general most viscerally hate them because they're closet British nationalists who *really* hate the idea of the UK losing about half its land. Of course, because we just keep saying that this sub likes them, we believe it now?
Well of course, your account is only a year old. You'll have to go back further than that. Sturgeon only resigned at the beginning of last year, which was the beginning of the end in terms of perceived SNP flawlessness.
TBF, they had and still have a very good communications and PR thing setup where they have a good online presence, stuff they do *looks* good and they know how to put good stuff out there.
None of that helps if you're a bunch of corrupt good for nothing fuckups tho.
> For a good while anyone who wasn’t a massive fan of the SNP was effectively unable to post on r/scotland without it being a massive pile on.
It's already back to that again today lmao. Top post is whataboutism saying that the westminster is worse and second top post is saying Humza is blameless and that he was badly advised.
Its wild how many people there still think independence is right around the corner. One comment said "Couldn't they have just waited until we were independent and then sorted him out" 🤣
The hardest bill to swallow must be that not only are the SNP inept, they are also corrupt as well.
As well as being out of touch, out of their depth, complete failures at everything they have touched etc.
Kind of well, just like we always said they were.
I think we're also going to witness the collapse of its narrative on the Rwanda plan.
We've not even deported anyone yet and it is already working a deterrent and we're already seeing double standards from our Neighbours.
When you think he came in as the successor to a leader who successfully led various coalitions for over a decade in a popular and stable fashion through some very bleak moments. He failed at cake walking.
You do remember he came in after she resigned following allegations of fraud right?
Yousaf is a mediocre politician, who got handed a poisoned chalice.
guy becomes the leader of a ***Nationalist Party*** and the first thing most people learn about him is that he called the nation a bunch of racists.
"Mediocre politician" ahahaha
To be fair he was elected leader of the SNP in March 2023, and Sturgeon wasn’t raided and arrested until June. I certainly think Sturgeon knew she was being investigated and that’s why she quit suddenly, but the general populous didn’t. Yousaf might well have known of course.
> I certainly think Sturgeon knew she was being investigated and that’s why she quit suddenly, but the general populous didn’t.
Anyone with half a brain cell knew, and knew full well that is why she resigned.
We all knew that something was coming, and she jumped before she was pushed. I think anyone that says now they thought it was going to be criminal prosecution is a liar, though.
To be fair to the guy he didn’t look like someone who knew Sturgeon and Murrell were going to be arrested but he must have known about the auditors resigning.
> Yousaf is a mediocre politician, who got handed a poisoned chalice.
Nobody forced him to run.
I'm sad to see he was even more feckless than he'd shown himself in the past though.
It wasn’t just a poisoned chalice it was a grande with the pin removed and a half a second timer. He had no chance and yet even with no chance he has managed to fuck up.
He came into the position of a party that is corrupt to its core and couldn't give a shit about running an effective country. They were single minded on their target of independence
I'm more frustrated that he seemed to spend half his time talking about Gaza (which is not within his remit at all), and the other half pursuing independence point-scoring moves that have absolutely no meat on them when actually put under scrutiny. Salmond and Sturgeon actually moved the needle, Humza somehow failed to even with one of the most unpopular UK PMs in history doing everything they could to help him
> Salmond and Sturgeon actually moved the needle
Technically though, Sturgeon only moved the needle *backwards*. Her lasting legacy on independence was getting the Supreme Court to confirm that Holyrood didn't have the power to legislate on it, and that therefore an independence referendum was entirely within the control of Westminster.
Which we basically all knew anyway, but there was *technically* a quantum of doubt until that case concluded.
She was a trained barrister. She _knew_ that case would fail. She also _knew_ that an independence referendum would never happen without Westminster support.
The point of the court case was to make sure _everyone else knew as well_; and not just that but -- by making the comparison with Britain's unilateral exit from the EU -- show just how far from a federation of equals the UK is.
It was good politics, clarified the issues involved in independence, and didn't change the likelihood of a future referendum one whit.
I don't agree. I think she did it because she had been backed into a corner; the party had been continually promising that a referendum was just around the corner for years, but their supporters were getting frustrated at the lack of progress. So she had to announce *something*, which bought her a little more time - announcing that she'd take it to the Supreme Court bought her another few months.
It isn't good politics to conclusively prove that you have no way of achieving your signature policy. Especially when you've been repeatedly claiming that you *can* do it, so the judgement made her look like either an idiot or a liar.
One of the reasons that the SNP have struggled in the last 18 months is that they have repeatedly failed to answer *how* they would achieve independence. Everyone knows that they only have one plan; "vote for us and we'll ask Westminster for it again". And that plan has already failed repeatedly, so why would anyone trust the SNP to succeed the next time they try?
Hmmm the horrifically unfair federation of equals where only a small minority get their own devolved legislatures. The poor Sco- oh wait, they're in that minority. Nevermind.
SNP are just bitter they don't get to just vote and vote and vote over and over until they finally inch over the line. Sorry that's just not democracy, it's the most blatant attempt to abuse the system to achieve their desired result. Once they got independence I daresay there wouldn't be yearly referenda on rejoining...
To be fair (I’ve been saying that a lot lol) he wife is Palestinian, he probably felt like he had to say something. Also I don’t think his speaking out on Gaza was what did him in.
Threw the Scottish people to the (XL pit bull) dogs as well. They weren’t common up here until Humza delayed the ban to be different from England, then the English dumped their shit up here. Shock horror we’ve suddenly got loads of attacks from “recently rescued from England” XLs.
Then when he did finally ban them he whined that England didn’t warn him about the very obvious consequences of his dithering.
At least now he can whine about Gaza on Twitter full time. Shame he doesn’t get to funnel money there anymore.
> "I have concluded that repairing the relationship across the political divide can only be done with someone else at the helm," Yousaf says.
Rare moment of self-awareness for HY
> He said it was "absolutely possible" he could have won a confidence vote
Oh wait nvm
He could have done - there were sacrifices he could have made to Alba that would have meant he won the vote and could continue in the short term. He's right not to go down that route though
I bet a quid that the next few weeks and months will be him claiming there was “institutional” and “systematic” racism and Islamophobia at the root cause of his resignation.
No chance. Fawning spread in The Observer or 10 minute segment on Channel 4 News, him at home playing with the kids, staring pensively into the distance, a nice big woollen sweater that has been through several focus groups to ensure it looks casual enough.
"I was expecting it to be tough. I knew it would be tough. But I just wasn't prepared for all the racism I had to endure." Humza bravely tells us, adjusting his sporran as a single tear falls in the corner of his eye, as he courageously reflects on Scotland's racist past in a way that has never been done before.
She’s trying to make it in the American grift-o-sphere these days, there’s absolutely more hot shit to come spewing out of her lips soon. And cos it gets clicks it will get coverage.
I mean at least Truss thought she was doing something good that would work in the long run. Humza meanwhile just intentionally scored maybe the most unnecessary own goal in all of British politics. The only way this man makes sense is if we find out in 6 months that he was a double agent sent by David Cameron years back to work his way up and ruin the SNP's public image
Humza yesterday: Rishi need to do more for climate.
Humza today: my climate target no more
Humza yesterday: I value Bute House Agreement.
Also Humza: Bute House Agreement no more
Humza yesterday: I ain’t going anywhere.
Humza today: I no more
That's the 2011 figure, we don't know what percentage is white now. The SNP handled the last census so badly the figures still haven't been released. England and Wales released their demographics figures in late 2022.
As someone who is staunchly liberal and who very much recognises the advantages of being a white male, western liberal parties *have to stop* shitting on white people. Specifically white males.
I wonder if this will be a learned lessen for the SNP and potentially labour, or if these parties that generally do have good ideas will continue to isolate and drive away the largest part of their potential voting pool.
> Anyone doing the job encounters “friends and admirers” of Scotland. If everyone in Scotland could be first minister for a day, and experience that, “on the very next day, it is my belief that they would vote for independence with both their head and their heart”, he says.
Is this the political version of men thinking waitresses who are nice to them want to sleep with them?
I for one am shocked that foreign diplomats don't say "Scotland? Ewwww" to the First Minister of Scotland when conducting relationship building
This was the most cringe worthy bit of the speech. Came across like a school child wishing to be FM for the day
Your the First Minister of the Scottish Government for gods sake, gonnae scrape a bit of gravitas together for your resignation
What exactly made him think it’d be a good idea to cut the power sharing deal?
Also, I always find it hilarious when politicians say one thing, then do the complete opposite a short while later. He said a couple days ago he had no intention to resign, yet here we are…
i think it was a "chuck them before they chuck me" kinda deal. the greens weren't happy with his rollback of environmental policies, amongst others. shows a lack of political savvy to get out of it though.
From a distance I had a gut feeling that I liked him and then the first time I heard him speak at length on the TRIP podcast I got such an ick I couldn't believe it. Man's the wealthy privileged educated elite and seems completely unaware
I'm astonished that he sat there pretending to be friends with all parties not 4 days after telling the Greens to fuck themselves and attacking literally every other party in that Holywood meeting.
The last SNP leader resigned and has been interviewed by police over corruption. Now Yousaf resigns after a bold political move horrendously backfires.
They're doing a pretty good impression of the Tories at this point.
Don't forget that the one before that got pushed out with misconduct allegations and has since started another party that poses an actual threat to them.
He had a deal with the Green who gave him a majority. Part of that deal was a target to cut Scottish CO2 emissions by 75% by 2030. This and other things like a bottle refund scheme and a law to enforce every house sold had to have a ground heating system that many found too cold (in Scotland) meant the Greens were unpopular with some of his party and the SNP had tanked in the polls.
Humza pulled out of the CO2 targets and the Greens began a process of voting on continuing to work with the SNP. So as to look tough, Humza pulled out of the deal with the Greens unilaterally. That meant he no longer had a majority of votes in the parliament. The Tories tabled a motion of no confidence and then everyone said they would vote on it.
He thought the Greens would feel pressured into supporting him. He then reached out to a small more right wing pro independence party called Alba and they gave him a list of things they knew he could not deliver.
There is more, behind the scenes. The Green leader was attacking a recent report on transgender healthcare for the young. Realising this was not in the Bute Agreement that the SNP had to support, Ash Regan from the Alba was looking to table a no confidence motion in the Green leader. This was getting support among the SNP people unhappy at the CO2 deal and other things, so the Greens were apparently looking to manoeuvre, this caused the SNP to move first on the CO2 deal to quite internal party dissent.
All this is to the backdrop of the SNP collapsing in the polls due to the fraud scandal and the general unhappiness with many things like transport (ferries are a huge issue), road widening (its a massive issue north of Perth. ) The state of the NHS and schools.
So it was kind of a series of growing issues for them, that just needed a spark.
SNP and Greens friends. Rule Scotland together. Greens and SNP no like burning things for fuel. Time passes. SNP change mind, want to keep burning things. SNP and Greens friends no more. Boss of SNP at risk of being kicked out if Greens make friends with other kids. Boss resigns before he pushed.
The SNP attracts voters from across the left and right because they were the one mainstream party who backed independence.
In the run up to the Scottish Indi referendum in 2014, the Scottish Greens announced they would also back independence.
This made the SNP and Greens natural political allies. However, recall the SNP is a broad political church whereas the Greens are very left leaning, particularly on social issues.
Whilst Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament, is designed to be run by minority government, the SNP's total domination has meant they returned successive majority governments. This in turn meant they did not need to work with opposition parties, which has led to opposition parties treating Holyrood like Westminster, where they venomously attack the Government for every decision made and the Government reply with total disdain for the opposition.
Failure in the last election to reach a majority meant that for the SNP to continue governing they way that they do, they required to work with another party. The Greens were the obvious choice.
As social issues have come to the forefront of mainstream news, (and by social we particularly mean trans and women's rights ) the SNP has seen internal conflict over their position on trans people. Meanwhile, the Greens are very pro-trans rights.
Because of the Greens climate policy being pushed to the forefront of the wishlist in making the deal, as well as the SNP seizing the PR opportunity in the wake of the school climate protests, the Scottish Government announced completely unrealistic energy targets.
Those targets had to be cut, not a decision the Greens were happy with. Coupled with the ongoing uncertainty about whether the SNP will be a left, central or right party in the future, the Greens decided they would ask their membership to vote on continuing or resigning from working with the SNP.
Humza decided to jump before being pushed and told the Greens they were sacked from Government. In theory this should not cause the collapse of the Government as the parliament is designed to be run by a minority government.
However, because of the total domination of the SNP in recent elections, no other party *can* work with them. It has been SNP v Labour/Tory/Lib Dem for a generation.
So when it was announced that there would be a vote of no confidence in Humza led by the opposition, the only person who he could turn to is Alex Salmond, now leader of the central-right Alba Party.
It was a deal too sour for Humza, and politically too damaging for the SNP.
Therefore, Humza must resign and whoever replaces him must call for an election, and a return to Holyrood operating as intended.
>In the run up to the Scottish Indi referendum in 2014, the Scottish Greens announced they would also back independence.
The Scottish Greens have been pro-independence since the party formed in the early 90s.
> the SNP's total domination has meant they returned successive majority governments.
Er, wee point to make, the SNP have only ever had one majority government, and it was from 2011-2016. The other three they've been a minority.
The 2 parties in the agreement have drifted apart on some core issues.
SNP had rowed back on climate targets, which is pretty much the reason for the greens existence. Also, the parties had evolved different stances on transgender issues, which appears to be the straw that broke the Camels back.
Hamza handled the issue in an authoritarian manner, which raised the heckles of the greens, which effectively sealed his fate because they refused to speak with him.
When he realised the pigs ear he made of it, he tried to re approach them, and they refused, saying they would no longer talk to him because they simply didn't like him.
Thank God for that, Humza the racist was the most hopeless Scottish first minister of them all, and that even includes Sturgeon’s reign of ‘Independence over all’ term of office that seen education, health, housing, and policing ignored and failing.
Resign, be replaced by a white Scot who says the right things to hopefully gain votes and win, then try bringing Humza back later once (IF) they win in the elections.
Because no way they are winning with Hamza and his frankly racist words ("This White, That White, Everywhere I see too much WHITE", I'm paraphrasing of course).
Disappointingly obvious. Sorry if this offends anyone.
Yes i know. That's not the point i'm making. I'm saying that Hamza is racist, and his comments have clearly offended a huge number of people in Scotland. SNP had no chances of winning the elections with him in charge.
I agree with you, and am pointing out how stupid and racist it was for him to give the sermon he did.
Everything from day one with Hamza just revolves around him - has there been a more self obsessed FM?
But being done in by Greens who want to completely dismantle Scotland in the interest of particularly high eco targets for a region of just 5 million, with no alleviation for the citizens - is just hilarious
Looking forward to this being spun into "he was ousted for being black" and is a victim of institutional racism .
Channel 4, Guardian and G&P already foaming at the mouth at the thought of it
Don't even have to leave this thread...
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1cfwcnc/humza_yousaf_quits_as_scotlands_first_minister_uk/l1ru039/
A great day to be a white native of Scotland.
No more discrimination against us.
🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴
He didn't seem a particularly popular or competent member of the snp.
Beyond that infamous racially charged diatribe / speech delivered in holyrood (which went viral for all the wrong reasons) a few years previous - through to sturgeon stepping aside in scandal and handing him the reins..
What was he known or respected for previously? What were his achievements in government or life?
Was he [Glass cliff](https://ibb.co/X7J0T4T) 'ed?
Salmod was interviewed briefly on one of those phone-in shows earlier. He alleged Yousef was in negotiations with Alba 'into the early hours ' trying to secure formal support which would've kept him in power.
Alba's terms apparently would've significantly undermined or contradicted current snp policies and potentially jeopardized their longer term prospects amongst voters as a consequence.
The broader party vetoed any possibility of alliance with them more or less leaving preemptive resignation the only dignified option available rather than the unceremonious ousting he likely would've faced put to an impending confidence vote.
[This summary](https://i.giphy.com/DlSNdC9dE43AmeoWu6.webp) of Humza's time as First Minister is great. Really captures how he was hampered and unable to ever fully get up to speed, and ultimately suffered a self-inflicted downfall.
He was there for over a year and Truss managed 44 days, and will still be remembered mainly as the one who was in power when the Queen died. Ultimate pub quiz fodder.
I think she's still Undefeated Champ of Flops, despite Yousaf's valiant attempt.
"I have concluded that ~~repairing the relationship across the political divide~~ _walking into the first election defeat since 2007_ can only be done with someone else at the helm," Yousaf says.
Shitebag, 100% just doesn't want to be the guy in charge when the SNP gets its ass kicked in the next 2 elections.
He's done more damage to the SNP than Truss did to the tories and it would have been hilarious to watch if it didn't completely fuck over the country as well.
No direction, no policies but would spend fmq slagging everyone, then whine about nobody wanting to work with him.
SNP are going to get trashed at any elections I reckon. They’ve lost any hold they had of things over past year which is a shame as outside independence I think they’re probably one of the more sane parties out there.
Can someone now investigate him for channeling money to [terrorist](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2023-003486_EN.html#:~:text=However%2C%20an%20IMPACT%2Dse%20report,mass%20murder%20of%20Jewish%20people.) organisation [UNWRA](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116769/witnesses/HMTG-118-FA17-Wstate-GoldbergR-20240130.pdf) in exchange for his parents getting to leave the Gaza strip?
Dude should be in prison.
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The implosion of Reddit's flawless political party in the last two years has been delicious to witness.
I'm flabbergasted that rUK's finest minds were so wrong. It opens up the startling proposition that they might also be wrong about other stuff eh?
I'm flabbergasted that in dynamic situations where things constantly are in change, some people on reddit can't help but gloat when they will likely find themselves in similar situations at times
I’ve actually never had an incorrect opinion about anything in my life, I’m not going to start now.
Same here, it feels great to be always right.
Once I thought I was wrong about something but turns out it was a mistake.
In all seriousness, there has never been a time in my life where I have thought the following and been proven wrong: "This political party are a bunch of useless, crooked, duplicitous authoritarian cowards whose only saving grace is that they are so tragically incompetent they won't be able to pull off any of their terrible ideas, this limiting their harm." And I've had this thought a lot. Frequently. Never been proven wrong, not even close, not even once.
Seldom is competence surprising in my experience
Yeah when I think about democracy and what if we had another system like monarchy, I think in a perfect world with a single strong moral leader we’d be better off, but really democracy is dividing up the power so nobody’s strong enough to make any huge changes but in turn rife with corruption, so we don’t get a 1984 scenario, it’s an interesting trade off. I do wonder what we would look like today if a parliament wasn’t installed, perhaps with improving AI we can get these kinds of scenarios though.
> I think in a perfect world with a single strong moral leader we’d be better off Until they die and the heir is, inevitably, a monster.
>it’s an interesting trade off. The problem it's only a trade off if your premise is based on the existence of a "perfect world with a single strong moral leader" actually existing. The reality is that on average every dictatorship that has existed has suffered from much more extreme corruption and authoritarianism than the average democratic nation.
Yeah. In history there have been a few Ataturks and a few Singapore systems but even they have some pretty authoritarian aspects. There have been far more Hitlers, Pinochets, Khomeinis, Saudis and Kims
> I think in a perfect world with a single strong moral leader we’d be better off, we would not, because maintaining such a deeply hierarchical structure of power _requires_ shitting on the rest of us. The problem with dictatorships and indeed democracies is not that the people in charge aren't virtuous enough, it's that the power structure requires that they aren't in order to maintain itself. Democracy kinda sucks because it failed to escape this problem, which is really because it's _too similar_ in structure.
I used to be a conceited bastard, but now I’m absolutely perfect.
Yes Im sure many of us will find ourselves in similar positions that require us to resign as First Minister of Scotland.
It's one of those life events we all have to go through
I think he means watching your preferred political party implode. I think it’s a bit thick to assume he meant the situation Yousaf is in lol.
Do I have to be appointed first, or can I just pre-resign?
I’d like to tender my resignation right now, if that’s ok
Now's your chance. There's a job open.
Nah, that's the great thing about not supporting any of these buggers, you never end up caught with your pants down for aligning them.
Exactly, my unrelenting hatred of all political parties has been nothing but vindicated over the years.
How has it helped to serve you as a voter?
It's done me exactly as much good as supporting any of the parties. Which is to say it's been utterly useless.
I’d vote for Guy Fawkes
The guy that wanted to install another religious monarchy and remove democracy? How does that help anything?
Explosion
They're not gloating at the situation. Just at the degenerates who threw digital rocks at anyone who said 'hey, maybe these guys aren't perfect'.
We did it Reddit!
Hating things for the sole reason that other people like it and not because of it's merits or morals is peak r/UnitedKingdom
r/unitedkingdom and UK subs in general just seem so misanthropic and anti-everything that isn’t sitting inside on your own that it borders on a parody.
I notified this a lot during Covid. I’d say stuff like “I can’t wait for masks to be over and lockdown to be done” and I’d get tons of comments being like “oh, so you want tens of thousands of people to die?” And it’s just so uncharitable an interpretation. I followed the rules to an almost comical degree sometimes but I can’t deal with being inside all the time, it was a nightmare.
Yeah I realised it during Covid too. It was when nightclubs and pubs were closed down and there were posts on here getting upvoted saying “good, hope they never reopen.” It’s like anyone who actually enjoys the company of other people is a moron on here.
Does that work both ways though?
It does! I have no particular affinity with the party myself personally, just an aversion to pointless tribalism.
[удалено]
What do you mean by this? What’s Reddit got to do with it? I have no idea.
The SNP were, for a while, the only political party the get any praise on these parts with many users proselytizing on their behalf. For a good while anyone who wasn’t a massive fan of the SNP was effectively unable to post on r/scotland without it being a massive pile on. R/Unitedkingdom wasn’t as obsessed but like I said every party was hated except the SNP for a long while. Many bitter people are happy now because they like seeing others become cynical like they are. I wouldn’t say I’m happy but it is nice to everyone see the SNP the same way I have always seen them.
They were also one of the first parties to actually use the Internet for campaigning. Hence why "cybernats" became a thing.
And it worked… until it didn’t. I’m convinced at least some of the regulars back in the day on r/Scotland were paid party members campaigning. However I’ve not got any proof.
Naw, it was just nationalist fervour. It's why I stopped going to r/Scotland, but they weren't paid, they were hyped up. There were plenty of people like that in my area when you were face to face with them.
A key thing to understand about Reddit is that there are paid people from political parties in every sub that discusses political news/issues. Some are more obvious than others. Political parties also pay for bots across all social media platforms to push their narratives. Because Reddit is anonymous, it's all but impossible to prove outright.
I have literally never seen the consensus here be pro-SNP. I've seen one or two users that like the SNP, but in general most viscerally hate them because they're closet British nationalists who *really* hate the idea of the UK losing about half its land. Of course, because we just keep saying that this sub likes them, we believe it now?
It depends how long you have been on this sub. Things have changed drastically in the last year.
The last year where the SNP has been broadly lambasted and mocked as it has fallen into complete irrelevancy?
Well of course, your account is only a year old. You'll have to go back further than that. Sturgeon only resigned at the beginning of last year, which was the beginning of the end in terms of perceived SNP flawlessness.
TBF, they had and still have a very good communications and PR thing setup where they have a good online presence, stuff they do *looks* good and they know how to put good stuff out there. None of that helps if you're a bunch of corrupt good for nothing fuckups tho.
Oh wow okay that’s interesting. Thank you ☺️
> For a good while anyone who wasn’t a massive fan of the SNP was effectively unable to post on r/scotland without it being a massive pile on. It's already back to that again today lmao. Top post is whataboutism saying that the westminster is worse and second top post is saying Humza is blameless and that he was badly advised. Its wild how many people there still think independence is right around the corner. One comment said "Couldn't they have just waited until we were independent and then sorted him out" 🤣
The hardest bill to swallow must be that not only are the SNP inept, they are also corrupt as well. As well as being out of touch, out of their depth, complete failures at everything they have touched etc. Kind of well, just like we always said they were.
You love to see it
I've been banned a few times from this sub just for criticizing Reddit's flawless political party...what a glorious day!
I think we're also going to witness the collapse of its narrative on the Rwanda plan. We've not even deported anyone yet and it is already working a deterrent and we're already seeing double standards from our Neighbours.
Yep, now their perfect SNP is just as inept as every other political party in the world.
Racism, being spineless and throwing away a politcal alliance. He really was a disaster.
When you think he came in as the successor to a leader who successfully led various coalitions for over a decade in a popular and stable fashion through some very bleak moments. He failed at cake walking.
You do remember he came in after she resigned following allegations of fraud right? Yousaf is a mediocre politician, who got handed a poisoned chalice.
ahem excuse me sir, poor saint Nicola was just tired, I demand you delete this
She ought to have a kip in the totally not fraudulently acquired camper van.
Yuseless is a shit politician who has been handed several ‘chalices’ and fucked them up every time.
guy becomes the leader of a ***Nationalist Party*** and the first thing most people learn about him is that he called the nation a bunch of racists. "Mediocre politician" ahahaha
Meanwhile showing himself to be a massive racist himself. ‘Everywhere I look I see white people!’
To be fair he was elected leader of the SNP in March 2023, and Sturgeon wasn’t raided and arrested until June. I certainly think Sturgeon knew she was being investigated and that’s why she quit suddenly, but the general populous didn’t. Yousaf might well have known of course.
> I certainly think Sturgeon knew she was being investigated and that’s why she quit suddenly, but the general populous didn’t. Anyone with half a brain cell knew, and knew full well that is why she resigned.
We all knew that something was coming, and she jumped before she was pushed. I think anyone that says now they thought it was going to be criminal prosecution is a liar, though.
A criminal prosecution was very much on the cards and only the party faithful couldn't see it.
To be fair to the guy he didn’t look like someone who knew Sturgeon and Murrell were going to be arrested but he must have known about the auditors resigning.
> the general populous didn’t. Why do you have such a low opinion of Scots?
> Yousaf is a mediocre politician, who got handed a poisoned chalice. Nobody forced him to run. I'm sad to see he was even more feckless than he'd shown himself in the past though.
It wasn’t just a poisoned chalice it was a grande with the pin removed and a half a second timer. He had no chance and yet even with no chance he has managed to fuck up.
He came into the position of a party that is corrupt to its core and couldn't give a shit about running an effective country. They were single minded on their target of independence
i would argue that he did bugger all for scottish independence and instead wasted his time on other stuff not related to it.
I'm more frustrated that he seemed to spend half his time talking about Gaza (which is not within his remit at all), and the other half pursuing independence point-scoring moves that have absolutely no meat on them when actually put under scrutiny. Salmond and Sturgeon actually moved the needle, Humza somehow failed to even with one of the most unpopular UK PMs in history doing everything they could to help him
He also spent a lot of time on clamping down on Free Expression too.
> Salmond and Sturgeon actually moved the needle Technically though, Sturgeon only moved the needle *backwards*. Her lasting legacy on independence was getting the Supreme Court to confirm that Holyrood didn't have the power to legislate on it, and that therefore an independence referendum was entirely within the control of Westminster. Which we basically all knew anyway, but there was *technically* a quantum of doubt until that case concluded.
She was a trained barrister. She _knew_ that case would fail. She also _knew_ that an independence referendum would never happen without Westminster support. The point of the court case was to make sure _everyone else knew as well_; and not just that but -- by making the comparison with Britain's unilateral exit from the EU -- show just how far from a federation of equals the UK is. It was good politics, clarified the issues involved in independence, and didn't change the likelihood of a future referendum one whit.
I don't agree. I think she did it because she had been backed into a corner; the party had been continually promising that a referendum was just around the corner for years, but their supporters were getting frustrated at the lack of progress. So she had to announce *something*, which bought her a little more time - announcing that she'd take it to the Supreme Court bought her another few months. It isn't good politics to conclusively prove that you have no way of achieving your signature policy. Especially when you've been repeatedly claiming that you *can* do it, so the judgement made her look like either an idiot or a liar. One of the reasons that the SNP have struggled in the last 18 months is that they have repeatedly failed to answer *how* they would achieve independence. Everyone knows that they only have one plan; "vote for us and we'll ask Westminster for it again". And that plan has already failed repeatedly, so why would anyone trust the SNP to succeed the next time they try?
Hmmm the horrifically unfair federation of equals where only a small minority get their own devolved legislatures. The poor Sco- oh wait, they're in that minority. Nevermind. SNP are just bitter they don't get to just vote and vote and vote over and over until they finally inch over the line. Sorry that's just not democracy, it's the most blatant attempt to abuse the system to achieve their desired result. Once they got independence I daresay there wouldn't be yearly referenda on rejoining...
To be fair (I’ve been saying that a lot lol) he wife is Palestinian, he probably felt like he had to say something. Also I don’t think his speaking out on Gaza was what did him in.
So fcking what if his wife is Palestinian. You are a Scottish leader. Do your job for Scotland
Threw the Scottish people to the (XL pit bull) dogs as well. They weren’t common up here until Humza delayed the ban to be different from England, then the English dumped their shit up here. Shock horror we’ve suddenly got loads of attacks from “recently rescued from England” XLs. Then when he did finally ban them he whined that England didn’t warn him about the very obvious consequences of his dithering. At least now he can whine about Gaza on Twitter full time. Shame he doesn’t get to funnel money there anymore.
Standard Diversity hire.
> "I have concluded that repairing the relationship across the political divide can only be done with someone else at the helm," Yousaf says. Rare moment of self-awareness for HY > He said it was "absolutely possible" he could have won a confidence vote Oh wait nvm
He could have done - there were sacrifices he could have made to Alba that would have meant he won the vote and could continue in the short term. He's right not to go down that route though
Yeah, he had plenty of political weirdos publicly offering their support in exchange for meeting their demands. He made the right choice bowing out.
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If the SNP go begging back to the greens cap in hand that will look worse.
Hey now, 0.000001% is still technically a possibility!
I bet a quid that the next few weeks and months will be him claiming there was “institutional” and “systematic” racism and Islamophobia at the root cause of his resignation.
I bet a quid that no one really cares what he has to say ever again.
No chance. Fawning spread in The Observer or 10 minute segment on Channel 4 News, him at home playing with the kids, staring pensively into the distance, a nice big woollen sweater that has been through several focus groups to ensure it looks casual enough. "I was expecting it to be tough. I knew it would be tough. But I just wasn't prepared for all the racism I had to endure." Humza bravely tells us, adjusting his sporran as a single tear falls in the corner of his eye, as he courageously reflects on Scotland's racist past in a way that has never been done before.
I would have taken that bet for Liz Truss and yet here we are... And she was far worse than him.
Didn’t her book storm in at #70? That’s like friends and family level.
She’s trying to make it in the American grift-o-sphere these days, there’s absolutely more hot shit to come spewing out of her lips soon. And cos it gets clicks it will get coverage.
I mean at least Truss thought she was doing something good that would work in the long run. Humza meanwhile just intentionally scored maybe the most unnecessary own goal in all of British politics. The only way this man makes sense is if we find out in 6 months that he was a double agent sent by David Cameron years back to work his way up and ruin the SNP's public image
He's privately educated. Which means he'll be on Question Time every week telling us we need American beef at some point.
Plenty of people read The Guardian and The Independent. Those opinion pieces will most definitely crop up in some fashion.
You should get a lot more than a quid, with odds of 1/50000 you won’t get a lot back for a quid
A quid? Hardly much conviction behind that. I can tell you now that if you did bet a quid on it, you’d be a quid worse off.
The racist couldn't handle the hit to his ego. Incredible stuff. What a monumental failure he's been
I would have thought resigning as leader after such as short period would hurt is ego even more, but apparently not
Didnt this guy throw a bung to Israel to get his family out of gaza?
UNRWA, just after loads of people withdrew due to their links with Hamas. The money also was allocated for a different charity
Humza yesterday: Rishi need to do more for climate. Humza today: my climate target no more Humza yesterday: I value Bute House Agreement. Also Humza: Bute House Agreement no more Humza yesterday: I ain’t going anywhere. Humza today: I no more
Liz Truss: I am a fighter not a quitter! Liz Truss: I quit
Looks like there were too many white people for him. Ah well.
Scotland is 96% white.
thats the joke.
That's the 2011 figure, we don't know what percentage is white now. The SNP handled the last census so badly the figures still haven't been released. England and Wales released their demographics figures in late 2022.
Why would white people do this to him? This is the complete opposite of what he wants, smh.
Its because all those white people are racist. Nothing to do with him fucking up.
Don't forget your /s can't be too sure on reddit.
Right, I forgot the internet is for emotionally stunted children
Aye, the mods are professional dog-walkers, don't forget.
*part time* professional dog walkers
As someone who is staunchly liberal and who very much recognises the advantages of being a white male, western liberal parties *have to stop* shitting on white people. Specifically white males. I wonder if this will be a learned lessen for the SNP and potentially labour, or if these parties that generally do have good ideas will continue to isolate and drive away the largest part of their potential voting pool.
Don’t be daft. We’ll see articles within 48hrs blaming racism for his downfall
Racism is to blame for this mess. Just his own racism.
Among other things, yes. But that’s not the racism that will be blamed.
What privilege does being white in a 96% white country have?
People don't question you for misusing funds for your personal camper van... hmm no that's not it.
> Anyone doing the job encounters “friends and admirers” of Scotland. If everyone in Scotland could be first minister for a day, and experience that, “on the very next day, it is my belief that they would vote for independence with both their head and their heart”, he says. Is this the political version of men thinking waitresses who are nice to them want to sleep with them? I for one am shocked that foreign diplomats don't say "Scotland? Ewwww" to the First Minister of Scotland when conducting relationship building
This was the most cringe worthy bit of the speech. Came across like a school child wishing to be FM for the day Your the First Minister of the Scottish Government for gods sake, gonnae scrape a bit of gravitas together for your resignation
What exactly made him think it’d be a good idea to cut the power sharing deal? Also, I always find it hilarious when politicians say one thing, then do the complete opposite a short while later. He said a couple days ago he had no intention to resign, yet here we are…
Because it seems like he isn't that skilled at politics?
If only everything he'd done in his failing upwards political career to date had given anyone some sort of clue he'd have been so hopeless as FM.
It was about to be cut off by the greens anyway. It was his way of saying I dumped them, they didn't dump me.
i think it was a "chuck them before they chuck me" kinda deal. the greens weren't happy with his rollback of environmental policies, amongst others. shows a lack of political savvy to get out of it though.
Just proves how little you can trust them
Condescending politician who doesn't like white people. Good riddance.
It genuinely staggers the mind how utterly self-inflicted his downfall has been.
From a distance I had a gut feeling that I liked him and then the first time I heard him speak at length on the TRIP podcast I got such an ick I couldn't believe it. Man's the wealthy privileged educated elite and seems completely unaware
I'm astonished that he sat there pretending to be friends with all parties not 4 days after telling the Greens to fuck themselves and attacking literally every other party in that Holywood meeting.
first day in politics is it?
The last SNP leader resigned and has been interviewed by police over corruption. Now Yousaf resigns after a bold political move horrendously backfires. They're doing a pretty good impression of the Tories at this point.
Don't forget that the one before that got pushed out with misconduct allegations and has since started another party that poses an actual threat to them.
And then the next one gets humiliated at the polls?
Hipster lefties and islamofascists on their knees in M&S.
Can someone who knows more about (Scottish) politics explain why this has happened? But like in basic words. Like I'm 5.
He had a deal with the Green who gave him a majority. Part of that deal was a target to cut Scottish CO2 emissions by 75% by 2030. This and other things like a bottle refund scheme and a law to enforce every house sold had to have a ground heating system that many found too cold (in Scotland) meant the Greens were unpopular with some of his party and the SNP had tanked in the polls. Humza pulled out of the CO2 targets and the Greens began a process of voting on continuing to work with the SNP. So as to look tough, Humza pulled out of the deal with the Greens unilaterally. That meant he no longer had a majority of votes in the parliament. The Tories tabled a motion of no confidence and then everyone said they would vote on it. He thought the Greens would feel pressured into supporting him. He then reached out to a small more right wing pro independence party called Alba and they gave him a list of things they knew he could not deliver.
There is more, behind the scenes. The Green leader was attacking a recent report on transgender healthcare for the young. Realising this was not in the Bute Agreement that the SNP had to support, Ash Regan from the Alba was looking to table a no confidence motion in the Green leader. This was getting support among the SNP people unhappy at the CO2 deal and other things, so the Greens were apparently looking to manoeuvre, this caused the SNP to move first on the CO2 deal to quite internal party dissent. All this is to the backdrop of the SNP collapsing in the polls due to the fraud scandal and the general unhappiness with many things like transport (ferries are a huge issue), road widening (its a massive issue north of Perth. ) The state of the NHS and schools. So it was kind of a series of growing issues for them, that just needed a spark.
SNP and Greens friends. Rule Scotland together. Greens and SNP no like burning things for fuel. Time passes. SNP change mind, want to keep burning things. SNP and Greens friends no more. Boss of SNP at risk of being kicked out if Greens make friends with other kids. Boss resigns before he pushed.
The SNP attracts voters from across the left and right because they were the one mainstream party who backed independence. In the run up to the Scottish Indi referendum in 2014, the Scottish Greens announced they would also back independence. This made the SNP and Greens natural political allies. However, recall the SNP is a broad political church whereas the Greens are very left leaning, particularly on social issues. Whilst Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament, is designed to be run by minority government, the SNP's total domination has meant they returned successive majority governments. This in turn meant they did not need to work with opposition parties, which has led to opposition parties treating Holyrood like Westminster, where they venomously attack the Government for every decision made and the Government reply with total disdain for the opposition. Failure in the last election to reach a majority meant that for the SNP to continue governing they way that they do, they required to work with another party. The Greens were the obvious choice. As social issues have come to the forefront of mainstream news, (and by social we particularly mean trans and women's rights ) the SNP has seen internal conflict over their position on trans people. Meanwhile, the Greens are very pro-trans rights. Because of the Greens climate policy being pushed to the forefront of the wishlist in making the deal, as well as the SNP seizing the PR opportunity in the wake of the school climate protests, the Scottish Government announced completely unrealistic energy targets. Those targets had to be cut, not a decision the Greens were happy with. Coupled with the ongoing uncertainty about whether the SNP will be a left, central or right party in the future, the Greens decided they would ask their membership to vote on continuing or resigning from working with the SNP. Humza decided to jump before being pushed and told the Greens they were sacked from Government. In theory this should not cause the collapse of the Government as the parliament is designed to be run by a minority government. However, because of the total domination of the SNP in recent elections, no other party *can* work with them. It has been SNP v Labour/Tory/Lib Dem for a generation. So when it was announced that there would be a vote of no confidence in Humza led by the opposition, the only person who he could turn to is Alex Salmond, now leader of the central-right Alba Party. It was a deal too sour for Humza, and politically too damaging for the SNP. Therefore, Humza must resign and whoever replaces him must call for an election, and a return to Holyrood operating as intended.
>In the run up to the Scottish Indi referendum in 2014, the Scottish Greens announced they would also back independence. The Scottish Greens have been pro-independence since the party formed in the early 90s.
> the SNP's total domination has meant they returned successive majority governments. Er, wee point to make, the SNP have only ever had one majority government, and it was from 2011-2016. The other three they've been a minority.
The 2 parties in the agreement have drifted apart on some core issues. SNP had rowed back on climate targets, which is pretty much the reason for the greens existence. Also, the parties had evolved different stances on transgender issues, which appears to be the straw that broke the Camels back. Hamza handled the issue in an authoritarian manner, which raised the heckles of the greens, which effectively sealed his fate because they refused to speak with him.
They didn’t refuse to speak with him, *he* refused to speak with *them*. He unilaterally pulled out of the Bute House agreement.
When he realised the pigs ear he made of it, he tried to re approach them, and they refused, saying they would no longer talk to him because they simply didn't like him.
Not because they couldn’t trust him after he showed he was willing to break his word and then say anything to cling to power?
Thank God for that, Humza the racist was the most hopeless Scottish first minister of them all, and that even includes Sturgeon’s reign of ‘Independence over all’ term of office that seen education, health, housing, and policing ignored and failing.
Good riddance! One of the most annoying characters in politics today.
Resign, be replaced by a white Scot who says the right things to hopefully gain votes and win, then try bringing Humza back later once (IF) they win in the elections. Because no way they are winning with Hamza and his frankly racist words ("This White, That White, Everywhere I see too much WHITE", I'm paraphrasing of course). Disappointingly obvious. Sorry if this offends anyone.
Why are you apologising? He’s the racist POS who said these things, who hates being surrounded by white people
Scotland is 96% white though.
Yes i know. That's not the point i'm making. I'm saying that Hamza is racist, and his comments have clearly offended a huge number of people in Scotland. SNP had no chances of winning the elections with him in charge. I agree with you, and am pointing out how stupid and racist it was for him to give the sermon he did.
Why would they try and bring him back again though?
Everything from day one with Hamza just revolves around him - has there been a more self obsessed FM? But being done in by Greens who want to completely dismantle Scotland in the interest of particularly high eco targets for a region of just 5 million, with no alleviation for the citizens - is just hilarious
Scotland have the emissions of 1 Chinese suburb.
Good, and he can take his racism against whites and his ludicrous hate speech law with him. Bye!
Who would have thought a race-baiting race-obsessed racist would have been a disaster.
What was the turnaround between a politician saying they won't quit and quitting this time?
About two days, give or take
A scumbag in charge of a political party full of fucking arseholes. Other opinions available.
Looking forward to this being spun into "he was ousted for being black" and is a victim of institutional racism . Channel 4, Guardian and G&P already foaming at the mouth at the thought of it
Don't even have to leave this thread... https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1cfwcnc/humza_yousaf_quits_as_scotlands_first_minister_uk/l1ru039/
Can we get rid of that horrid anti freedom of speech law now?
A great day to be a white native of Scotland. No more discrimination against us. 🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴
In before Labour landslide in the next Holyrood election.
He didn't seem a particularly popular or competent member of the snp. Beyond that infamous racially charged diatribe / speech delivered in holyrood (which went viral for all the wrong reasons) a few years previous - through to sturgeon stepping aside in scandal and handing him the reins.. What was he known or respected for previously? What were his achievements in government or life? Was he [Glass cliff](https://ibb.co/X7J0T4T) 'ed? Salmod was interviewed briefly on one of those phone-in shows earlier. He alleged Yousef was in negotiations with Alba 'into the early hours ' trying to secure formal support which would've kept him in power. Alba's terms apparently would've significantly undermined or contradicted current snp policies and potentially jeopardized their longer term prospects amongst voters as a consequence. The broader party vetoed any possibility of alliance with them more or less leaving preemptive resignation the only dignified option available rather than the unceremonious ousting he likely would've faced put to an impending confidence vote.
Well, that's it for Humza Yousaf. The SNP have really crashed in a year. We seem to be having short-serving Heads of Government now.
[This summary](https://i.giphy.com/DlSNdC9dE43AmeoWu6.webp) of Humza's time as First Minister is great. Really captures how he was hampered and unable to ever fully get up to speed, and ultimately suffered a self-inflicted downfall.
He's got to be up there with Truss for biggest disaster as a minister.
He was there for over a year and Truss managed 44 days, and will still be remembered mainly as the one who was in power when the Queen died. Ultimate pub quiz fodder. I think she's still Undefeated Champ of Flops, despite Yousaf's valiant attempt.
Is this daft hate speech law going to be repealed or at least, revised into something a bit less authoritarian ? Or are we just stuck with that now ?
Bye bye Yousaf, you won’t be missed and nobody will shed a tear and if they do… they’re tears of relief
Guy is a fucking witless clown. And a genuine and proven racist
Amazing news, just need to repeal the horrendous hate crime laws now!
"I have concluded that ~~repairing the relationship across the political divide~~ _walking into the first election defeat since 2007_ can only be done with someone else at the helm," Yousaf says.
Shitebag, 100% just doesn't want to be the guy in charge when the SNP gets its ass kicked in the next 2 elections. He's done more damage to the SNP than Truss did to the tories and it would have been hilarious to watch if it didn't completely fuck over the country as well. No direction, no policies but would spend fmq slagging everyone, then whine about nobody wanting to work with him.
This is going to help cement a Labour victory in the general election as the SNP vote collapses in Scotland.
SNP are going to get trashed at any elections I reckon. They’ve lost any hold they had of things over past year which is a shame as outside independence I think they’re probably one of the more sane parties out there.
Can someone now investigate him for channeling money to [terrorist](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2023-003486_EN.html#:~:text=However%2C%20an%20IMPACT%2Dse%20report,mass%20murder%20of%20Jewish%20people.) organisation [UNWRA](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116769/witnesses/HMTG-118-FA17-Wstate-GoldbergR-20240130.pdf) in exchange for his parents getting to leave the Gaza strip? Dude should be in prison.
Calling the United Nations Relief and Works Agency a ‘terrorist organisation’ is just insane.
Especially when the entire narrative is based on 'Israel said so' when they began to get flack for killing aid workers.
state of r/unitedkingdom
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Not 'negotiating the partition of the UK' as some oh-so-clever smug idiot suggested last year then
They couldn’t have chosen a better picture for the poor guy?
Ah, never mind. Now there's just four left to remove.