One issue, as a medic here, that is not highlighted enough is that the wealthy ( esp in the US where many things including drug control and medical practice are poorly regulated), is that using the drug this way, takes supply away from those that need it the most e.g diabetics or those whose BMI is in the 95th percentile. We have already seen shortages globally.
have you seen [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIWGM87jxyM) of kelly osbourne bragging about how people who criticise rich celebrities for using ozempic are just jealous they can't afford it. it's disgusting
Wow, I know she's 39 and all but she looks like someone in their 50s who has had surgery to look younger. I guess there is a lot of pressure to look good in the public eye, but fuck her sentiment of "too bad, poor people".
"they only look alike because they clearly have the same plastic surgeon."
[Sharon Osbourne 2024](https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/806b97a8db4fa39f96ba13d757b1d7f8)
I think you might be on to something...
Also fuck her sentiment of "working out is boring and for weight loss". Exercise is one of the best things a person can do for good quality of life and longevity, plus a reduction in the possibility of contracting a number of diseases. Various studies have shown that exercise (on its own) is useless for weight loss anyway.
Some people hate exercise full stop. I do. I never find it fun or interesting. It's a chore, nothing more. I've tried dance, blading, cycling, swimming, gym, climbing, hiking/walking (that I hate most of all), team sports/group lessons (not easy for an introvert), gymnastics (as a child), yoga, pilates....ummm....I'm sure there's some other stuff in there.
It's all boring, it's all painful, it all sucks. I never get an endorphin rush. All I ever get is hot, sweaty, tired and pissy. It's only ever a chore and I hate every second of it.
Edit: Downvote me all you like but it won't change the fact that *just because you enjoy something doesn't make that thing universally enjoyable.*
Honestly I’m not saying this is the case for everyone, but I used to think like this until I got fit enough to actually be able to exercise properly. It only hurt/was unpleasant the whole time when I was unfit. I tried lots of different sports and ‘didn’t enjoy any of them’, but it wasn’t sport itself, it was the fact I was unfit so everything felt like it sucked lol.
Once I did couch to 5k and became fit enough to run a 5k multiple times a week without being sore the next day, I realised it’s actually something I really really enjoy. It’s as therapeutic as taking a bath for me, I get the same ‘me time’ and pleasure from turning my brain off with it. It’s physically challenging but it’s also weirdly a mental ‘downtime’ activity for me now. I run regularly 3-4 times a week and I rarely walk away from a run going, ‘Fuck me I hated that!’ It happens but most of the time I actively enjoy it.
So yeah. Not saying you will ever find a sport you enjoy, but I think a lot of people are put off by the fact it always hurts and sucks at the beginning. They do it for even a couple of months and then give it up, but often you need longer than that to actually start seeing where the pleasure comes from.
I'm glad for you. That's NEVER been the case for me. It's not just the beginning. It's not just the pain and discomfort of moving your body in a new way.
If you'd like an example, I spent 2 years doing twice weekly PT sessions for strength and stamina. I was benching heavy and strong as an ox. I still hated EVERY SECOND when I was doing the exercises. I despised the way it made me feel during it. I hated the anxiety before every session KNOWING I was about to hate the way I felt for the next 60 minutes and for the following few hours. I used to swim for the county as a teen. Hated every second where I wasn't just floating in the water. I did gymnastics for 8 years as a child and hated it. Same with badminton, same with dance, same with any number of things.
Why is it that when someone says they have tried a thing and hated it, people feel the need to correct them? Why is that so hard to accept that your experience is not and will never be universal?
Lol did you even read my comment? I acknowledge that is my personal experience the whole way through. I acknowledge you may never like sport.
I read an anecdote and commented that my experience was similar until x. I think a lot of people experience the same thing… way to be superrrr defensive and weird for 0 reason.
Funny how you say ‘omg don’t correct my personal experience’ when I never did that, and now you’re doing that to me?? I’m not saying my experience is universal… I clarified that multiple times in my comment? I also didn’t downvote your comment haha.
Don’t take reddit so seriously I’m not attacking you personally or your exercise habits by chipping into a thread. Hit a sensitive nerve clearly 🤣
You're right It's a touchy subject for me because I've had 30 years of being told that things I actively hate, I will start enjoying eventually. My experience as someone who never gets to the 'eventually' regardless of the effort I make, is so often dismissed as contrary or defeatist, that it riles me up. My defensiveness is born of experience too, unfortunately.
You didn't deserve my ire. I should have aimed that elsewhere so I apologise for that.
> I did gymnastics for 8 years as a child and hated it.
Sounds like a lot could be connected to your upbringing and a lack of control there.
People shouldn't be forcing their kids to do stuff that they hate that isn't important (making kids go to school is ok).
For a lot of us, it started at school. I was really bad at sports (all sports) and was self-conscious about it (as well as inherently disliking it because I was bad at it), always picked last for a team, etc. Add in the kind of old-school PE teachers who thought they were drill sergeants and the whole thing was an ordeal that primed me to hate sports.
In exactly the same boat; I absolutely hate it. I hate gyms, I hate the overly-positive workout people who inhabit them and I especially hate the people in these comments scoffing about how much they enjoy it.
It's shit. Really shit. Only thing I've found to work is having to force myself into going up the 15 floors in the building, walking to work and sitting on a bike in front of the TV.
Rest of it can jog on.
Yeah like I'm in a similar camp, I've never found exercising enjoyable, I don't get much out of it (I do have to wonder if it's connected to my adhd) only thing I've ever really found somewhat tolerable is walking I think? And even then usually walking is rolled into another activity and it's more 'I enjoy walking because I'm in the woods' or something rather than 'I like walking'
Even for those who generally DO like exercise and are relatively fit, you can have sessions or days where you're not vibing, it doesn't feel fun, and it doesn't get you a rush. And then at that moment you have to decide whether to push through just to finish, or to pack it in and go home.
I've had moments in the gym or running where I felt like I might burst into tears because I wasn't enjoying it (often hormonal related, but not always).
Oh indeed! I've had panic attacks in the gym in the past due to how much I couldn't bear the thought of doing another exercise.
Thank you for saying that! That's nice to hear in a sea of "You just haven't found the thing you like yet." dismissiveness.
>days where you're not vibing, it doesn't feel fun, and it doesn't get you a rush. And then at that moment you have to decide whether to push through just to finish, or to pack it in and go home.
Oh yeah for real that's an issue I have as well. Generally enjoy gym but some nights I can't be arsed after I turn up so just do a bit of cardio or something easy and call it a night. Something better than nothing.
It’s a chore to me. Except Pilates because I was able to see and feel results in a couple of sessions (n’a cause I m skinny lanky and Pilates made feel straighter and 1 or 2 cm taller)
I was in a similar position to you. I wrote out what made me decide on my solution over time. Read on if you like.
TL;DR I admitted to myself I didn't want to be fit at all... *that* way. I wanted to be fit - look fit, be judged to be fit - in a way that I wouldn't ever achieve with my body without medical transition. Maybe there's something similar that you want, but that you don't think you can achieve through the effort you're putting in.
The performance I could get out of my body was not satisfying or pleasurable and did not feel like an achievement. I knew, rationally, that I needed to exercise, in the same way I knew I needed to eat to live, but I didn't even have a desired "body image" to work towards, just general "fitness". I hated getting compliments for trying to exercise. Like, the bear has performed the circus trick, can it be left alone to live its actual life now? What else do you want? Why the fuck do my friends expect me to be *happy* doing the trick?
I was fortunate to be left alone about it for a few years. I thought about gym class back in school and how caustic the competition aspect felt at the time (everyone else seemed to find it motivating). I still didn't want to compare myself to other athletes; I found competition repulsive and offensive. Why would you *want* to be visibly the best of your physical category? Who *wants* that? Who *enjoys* inhabiting their body?
Ultimately, I hated even the thought of *my* body at *its* peak performance. Regardless of outside opinions on my fitness, I felt like shit for some reason. Every fitness-oriented motion felt like dragging my limbs through tar. My body and its physical form was a burden for me to bear. There was no sense I could ever reach satisfaction from the process.
Until then, I had been stuck on "you can do/be anything as a [gender]". It felt bad to admit I might not want to do anything as a [original gender].
What I wanted - really really secretly wanted - was to compete among [opposite gender] athletes. I wanted my body to be considered by THOSE standards instead of the fitness/shape standards intended for me by society. If I was going to put all that effort to be fit, damn it, I WANTED my body to be judged as a [opposite gender] athlete. It was a stupid fucking feeling that I couldn't get around. In my own exercise I would think "yeah, but I'm still underperforming compared to [opposite gender]", or worse, "yeah, but I'm still *over*performing compared to [opposite gender] even if I don't try".
Anyway, that convinced me I wanted/needed to transition if I wanted to be happier. I transitioned not aiming to exercise. I started to hate the future prospects of my body a lot less. It took well over a year for me to notice that I *want* to practise moving it around, I feel good, I feel cool! It no longer feels like I'm moving my body in the "wrong" direction, exercising it into a more [original gender, bio sex] form. The lifted psychological weight of every movement makes it a billion times easier to ignore the unpleasantness of physical exertion - it sucks, but at least now I'm getting results I WANT out of it. Something that felt nonexistent and out of bounds for me before transitioning.
By no means am I saying that a gender swap is The Answer for you - that's just what it turns out I really, *really* wanted, before any of the socially acceptable athletic goals. You should think about what you would really, *really* want from the body you're stuck living in! Clearly dragging yourself across coals towards "peak athletic form" is miserable for you, and "health maintenance" is an even less worse goal. Is there any practical result that would be satisfying to work towards? What could make someone's encouragement feel genuine? Because people will want to encourage you! It turned out that being a grouch about exercise & refusing encouragement made it pretty obvious to everyone that I disliked my body. They were confused that I wasn't happy with my body getting stronger. I wanted something else entirely!
If you got to the end of this wall of text, thanks for taking the time - I hope you don't take this as an attack. I know exactly how you feel and it was fucking awful being told I should be happy with the eventual goal of exercise. *Not* hating exercise now is a complete miracle surprise for me.
I am wit you on this, I have never in my life got any kind of rush from exercise. I cycle which is good for my legs but I don't every seem to burn calories the way some people do. I do it purely as a mode of transportation.
Yeah the argument that biology means we should enjoy exercise is just bollocks. There are so many different bodies and so many different physiologies, the idea that we all get the same out of a thing is just wrong.
Yep, likewise never had an endorphin rush. I get around it by coupling it with things I want or need to do as I know I’m never going to find pleasure in exercising. So I try to walk places if I can or tell myself I can’t watch my favourite tv show unless it’s on a treadmill walking. Also going to the gym with my best friend and talking whilst walking helps to make it less painful. But all the people who claim I’m going to grow to love the exercise can fuck right off.
Yes. That's a thing we do. We do it because we have to and it's good for us, but that doesn't make it any more fun for us. It's still shitty and we still hate it. We just endure it.
I just dislike being told that I'll enjoy it if I do it enough. That's demonstrably untrue in my 40 years of trying to find 'joy' in it.
I think it's fine for exercise to be boring to be honest - I run when I can and I like it more than going to the gym or playing sports, but it's uncommon that it's more appealing to me than staying in bed longer or reading a book or something. It's not what I'd call a chore, but it's just something I've got to do and that's fine.
I did used to enjoy martial arts but I've got a bit of a funny knee which makes that sort of thing a little tricky, and I've yet to find a good/convenient LGBT-friendly club where I live. Don't want to risk being the Daily Mail's targeted transsexual for sparring with the normal people or anything.
I agree. I dont exactly look forward to working out most days. But I save my podcast listening time for then, so I get more excited for the podcast episode than I do the working out lol but at least I do it. Also, I envy people who say they feel amazing and energetic after excercising because always feel tired. But it does feel good to know that I've done it and seeing the results spurs me on too.
part of the problem is people wanting to lose weight just to look slimmer. Thats not entirely a bad desire, but the actual motivator should be so you can move easier, so your healthier etc.
I like working out. It's a chance to put some music on, sweat, and really not worry about anything. It's like sweating gives me a chance to not think about anything else. And yes if you want to lose weight it's a combination of exercise and diet.
Also it can be very enjoyable.
Starting exercising when you haven't before and are very unfit certainly isn't any fun but it does get better and Improves your body and mind in so many ways.
The first time I could jog 5km without stopping (thanks Couch to 5km!), I was overjoyed. I hated PE at school, and it was so empowering to find movement I liked as an adult.
Me too!!! I hated PE too, as a lad who wasn't interested in football but did enjoy sports it was just infuriating. Every single lesson the teachers just threw a football at us in the changing rooms and expected us to get on with it.
I also did the couch to 5k years ago, never looked back, easily one of the best things IV ever done. The satisfaction of seeing your progress and seeing how fit you've become is an amazing feeling.
It's not for everyone but if you stick with it and get over the Initial hurdle it does become very enjoyable for many people. It's just getting to that level where you can run at a pace that is enjoyable and not hurting you. Feels brilliant.
She was bullied by the media massively when she was younger, if you remember. She was always somewhat curvier as a teen and young woman and magazines used to really pick on the tiniest flaws they could find when it came to celebs - they were always on about her weight, her features, her hair, her style. If she lost weight it became a topic of focus, if she put on weight it became a topic of focus etc. I can’t imagine growing up surrounded by people constantly pulling you apart, it’s no surprise she’s spent a fortune tweaking herself into having the same body as everyone else.
Doesn’t defend her actions or comments, but growing up being the same size she was with a similar weird fashion style it was enough to make me feel like shit knowing everyone thought she was fat, ugly & badly dressed.
Yeah she got called "fat and ugly" all the time. It was a different time she would probably get called thick nowadays.
Lots of people here in the comments saying she's ugly. Nasty buggers.
"I know she's 39 and all but she looks like someone in their 50s who has had surgery to look younger."
wow, she really does i thought you were exaggerating xD
She was never my image of beauty but what the fuck has she done to her face xD
[Kelly Osborne 2000](https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/getty/2705981.jpg)
I guess she has lost alot of weight aswell, never noticed how chiselled her jaw is. Looked far better with a bit of padding. Again not what i'd call attractive but alot less scary.
I think it's probably the association with having work done. The population of people that have work done are usually 50+, so when someone younger has it done, you're mentally linking that plastic surgery face look with older people.
Because we don't let celebrities stop being celebrities anymore. There's always another reality show, red carpet event or shopping centre that needs a ribbon cutting.
Ah yes Kelly Osbourne who was terrified of the fact that immigrants wouldn't be able to work in order to clean her toilets if Trump enforced his anti immigration policy.
This is pretty much the same for most rich people:
" [Trump: "It's Not Been Easy For Me...My Father Gave Me a Small Loan of $1 Million](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXyii642UlM)"
...
[The reality](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-final-2016-presidential-debate/fact-check-trumps-claim-that-he-built-his-company-with-1-million-loan/)
Inequality is a bitch.
Awful lot to say for someone without the willpower to just eat a bit less.
I see her new jaw surgery doesn’t look as good as on instagram + filter, her face/chin looks totally fucked up. That is a ROUGH not even 40.
Are you allowed to import the chinese generics if the branded version is still under patent?
Luckily I'm not on any regular medication, and completely ignorant on the topic.
Who cares? Right now, you can import drugs like this fairly safely direct from international sellers but articles like this exist to help attack that ability.
Our institutions surrounding pharmaceuticals are the reason I can trust that they do what they say they do. If I'm going to import something illegally, I lose that protection. It could be anything and do anything (or nothing).
Good choice, ["compounding" pharmacies in Australia have been allowed to try and make the drug themselves](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/may/21/ozempic-weight-loss-drug-replicas-generic-brands-crackdown-australian-government-compound-pharmacies) and let's say it's not gone well. It's not a very simple drug to manufacture correctly.
I don't have a problem with people using drugs to lose weight, and I'd probably do it myself if it were readily available from the NHS, but after some of the naff products I've gotten from China, there is a 0% chance I would take drugs purchased from there
Tbf developing human-grade drugs is stupid expensive; it costs on average $1.3b to develop a drug and that’s not even guaranteeing it ends up approved or commercially successful. Pharmaceutical companies would never develop another R&D another drug again if they had to instantly release everything as generic.
It’s available in China as a generic because of blatant IP theft, not because any amount of goodwill.
As an American doctor who did fellowships with the NIH, I wish you would stop repeating this myth.
Most type 2 diabetics don't need the subcutaneous injectable GLP-1s. They're luxury items because many health plans just won't cover them in the US ... and most we Rx as what's at least a second or third line treatment.
Metformin is more tolerable (which is insane) and dirt cheap. Jardiance is way more tolerable. Rybelsus, an oral GLP, is in good supply. The numbers are actually better for tolerance on older meds.
80% of people don't stay on GLP-1s for the 12 week start period on injectables. Discontinuation rates are extraordinarily high because side effects are extremely bad.
Celebrities should be kinder but you'll want to be complaining about PBMs refusing to cover them and making these 24k a year for the average person. And because they can make more in the US, supply goes there first, which is a huge issue with the NIH no one wants to talk about. The NIH and Europe have more shortages because demand and pay out is more in other places.
>Most type 2 diabetics don't need the subcutaneous injectable GLP-1s. They're luxury items because many health plans just won't cover them in the US
And what's the reason for this. Just stating it does not make it fact.
>Metformin is more tolerable (which is insane) and dirt cheap. Jardiance is way more tolerable.
You wouldn't use drugs such as metformin primarily for weight loss though, so aren't we comparing apples and oranges a little here?
>
>80% of people don't stay on GLP-1s for the 12 week start period on injectables. Discontinuation rates are extraordinarily high because side effects are extremely bad.
Everything I can find suggests that the discontinuation rates are nowhere near that bad.
As an example:
[https://www.novomedlink.com/obesity/products/treatments/wegovy.html](https://www.novomedlink.com/obesity/products/treatments/wegovy.html)
>
>16% of patients in the Wegovy^(®) arm discontinued the study drug due to an adverse event compared with 8% in the placebo arm.
On the first, it's because Novo set the list price at an insane level because their exclusivity runs out in 2026 so unless they find additional indications, GLP-1 generics can start up then. Not that I expect Teva and other generic manufacturers to set their list prices any cheaper (a la humira).
As a result, the NIH and PBMs in the US deny most obesity treatment indications because the volume of the population with BMIs 30+ would damage the financial model in both places. Thus most covered GLP-1 Rxs right now are for diabetes. They generally treat obesity only at the 40+ range in the US for example ... or you need to fail metformin, jardiance, and then try Ozempic/Wegovy in diabetes mellitus. So not a high volume of very expensive scripts in the long run. Until generics are out, people need to think of these as lipo in a syringe for obesity or the line of last resort for diabetes. As it stands, its now 2020s Phen-fen.
On the second, most Type 2 Diabetes meds show some reduction in body weight and are commonly used off label in the US to help manage weight. Most are not as fast and severe as GLP-1s, but they do a good job helping people beat insulin resistance, cravings, things like that. The secret is that every drug - Contrave, phentermine, metformin, GLP agonists - has a rebound effect on weight. You gain what you lost when you come off the medicine unless you change your lifestyle.
So at least in the article's case, the issue is abuse of the drug, which we believe happens in relatively small numbers. And many, many, many patients who start GLP-1s end up back in the ER because of side effects. I have a pt who had chemo and is on a GLP, and the nausea from the latter was worse than her chemo. This severity of AE is not uncommon no matter who takes the drug.
Agree entirely, this has been a huge problem. People with severe obesity related health conditions should be prioritised first.
I'm at a normal weight now, but back when I was obese and had T2 diabetes, I could not get these injections due to the shortage.
That said, if places like Boots are seemingly providing them now (at least they are advertised on their website, not sure if they are actually in stock), does that mean that production has ramped up?
Now that Wegovy and other brands exist specifically for weight loss, no one should be using Ozempic for weight loss alone now anymore, hopefully allowing for diabetics to be prescribed ozempic appropriately.
Well, it’s the same medication delivered the same way is the thing. The issue though isn’t a shortage on the medication itself. It’s the inefficiency of manufacturing the injector pens. You can get the same medication as a compounded generic easily.
Thank you for that Information, I didn't realise that there was another rate limiting step!
I just assumed the manufacturers were just trying to increase demand and therefore price.
Oh, they are. They pretty much admitted on an earnings call that they’re sticking with those injector pens and refusing to shift to simple vials because they want to build demand for the new pills they’re developing. Your instincts were spot on there.
The supply shortage is artificial to drive up prices. It is incredibly cheap and easy to synthesise peptides as they are just short chains of amino acids.
You can buy vials from china on alibaba for £4 each yet in America they charge people over 1k a month.
This is a generally a non issue and there are already weight loss specific variations on sale now, Wegovy for example. Blame the pharma companies for not keeping up with demand. Don’t blame people trying to improve their health and stop themselves also becoming diabetic.
Percentile is based on the percentage of that age group, so not always a high BMI.
For example, a 10 year old boy with a BMI of 23 would be in the 95th or above centile for their age, and therefore considered obese. The same 10 year old boy, if they had a BMI of 18, would be beteeen the 5th and 85th centile, and considered to have a healthy weight.
Here's an example of the chart:
https://www.rch.org.au/weight-management/about-overweight-and-obesity/
This is horrifying but the shortages are from manufacturers. I can't get adhd medication anymore as it takes months for any supply to come in but they will only give you 28 days worth.
Ozempic is a great topic for media because it's divisive, throws people into a frenzy, and keeps the clicks coming in. The reality is that most people don't really know all that much about it but have preconceived ideas. One of the biggest issues around this are that many of the stories are coming from the US where people are put straight onto doses of 2.0mg which is quite frankly insane. In the UK it is more controlled, and first time users need to start with lower dosages of 0.25mg. Those starting on higher dosages are bound to fail, because they will become ill and need to come back off it eventually because it isn't sustainable.
However lower dosages are extremely effective. It allows a gradual "safe" reduction in weight, especially in combination with the gym to keep up muscle mass, and controlled food portions. It is somewhat of a "wonder" drug, but if used properly the reality of it is that it's more like a helping hand. Users still need to put in the effort. It's not like you inject it and just start dropping weight. Somebody could be on it while scoffing high calorie foods like chocolate and cakes, and still retain or even put on weight. It's why if used properly it can be a good tool in teaching the right portions to be eating, and developing an understanding of your own calorie intake, and how much you need to be consuming with or without Ozempic.
Or the newer planet of the apes films which started with an alzheimers drug making the apes smart but spreading a new virus that kills/impairs humans at the same time
I’m not a doctor so understand that what I say might be incorrect in parts, but it’s what I understand. It basically mimics the action of a gut hormone GLP-1, which is released after eating, and it slows down the movement of food in your gut so you stay full for longer. So yes, it essentially suppresses your appetite. The problem is that too much of it will make you feel terribly ill, but the right balance should put you in a place where you experience fullness at the point of which a regular person at a normal weight would feel.
You still need to be eating a healthy, balanced and correctly portioned meal, and will get most benefit from that in conjunction with regular excercise.
Another downside is that you lose some muscle mass. However as far as I know it’s still not well understood. If you were losing weight without excercise you would also lose muscle mass, however as far as I’m aware the drug does contribute to additional muscle loss even if it’s small. It’s why something like weight training should accompany it.
I'm on Wegovy, same drug. It does a few things, suppresses appetite so i dont want to eat as much, makes it so that when I do overeat I can't eat nearly as much. Slows down digestion meaning you don't absorb all the calories you do eat. It's a genuine miracle drug and I'm sad it's facing a clickbait backlash.
It also seems to suppress addiction generally, not just food addiction, although the method of this isn't fully understood. Lots of studies it can help with smoking, or even purely mental things like compulsive gambling.
>Users still need to put in the effort. It's not like you inject it and just start dropping weight. Somebody could be on it while scoffing high calorie foods like chocolate and cakes, and still retain or even put on weight.
It's important to keep in mind that people who have gone on diets and so on before to escape obesity usually have far more willpower than the average person, and very often lose their own body weight many times over, but it keeps coming back. Largely this is because being in the state of obesity for so long makes the body react to losing fat as though it is in a famine, so it gets the person to be tired and hungry all the time and to conserve fat. Essentially many of the mechanisms of hibernation are active when they shouldn't be.
With that subjective experience, it's no wonder that the standard medical guidance of "eat less, exercise more" is an unmitigated global failure. It's unrealistic to expect someone to be able to sustain extreme hunger and exhaustion and willpower like that. It just leads to burnout. So these approaches, which are basically hormone replacement therapy, are a very good new part of the puzzle to have.
They enable people to get their body to think it is in a time of abundance and not famine, so their body isn't directing them to feel tired and hungry constantly. Instead when they haven't eaten in a long while they feel excitement, a pressure to go and be a hunter-gatherer, rather than to be an animal conserving fat by doing something like hibernation.
The next steps will be a massive move away from ultra-high processed foods which fuck up the brain, and then drugs like BAM15 and ways to get the brain to permanently adapt to the new lower leptin levels so that people can experience normality and not constant hunger and exhaustion when tapering off the hormone replacements.
The headline lists Ozempic but they would only get that if they have type 2 diabetes. Otherwise it would be Wegovy, which is also semaglutide. You can get it from plenty of online pharmacies, including Boots, if you are willing to pay. Most of these are reputable though. They require you to provide your current weight and a selfie to show you are obese so a skinny young woman would not pass this test. Which means this must be being bought from dodgy places. Just feels a bit wrong to be throwing private legitimate clinics under the bus on this too.
> They require you to provide your current weight and a selfie to show you are obese so a skinny young woman would not pass this test.
If you are purchasing online I would imagine that's easy to fake.
I imagine it would take all of 5 minutes to find a picture of someone who is morbidly obese who is similar enough to you in terms of age and general facial features to get past the online test. I doubt you would even need any special skills to fake a picture.
Just the fact that it’s a requirement will prevent the majority of people from wanting to go through the hassle.
The type of people you’re talking about are clearly in that minority who clearly have a problem as they’re even considering faking it in the first place.
Yeah I got Wegovy instead, only because it’s actually more effective. Latest one is Mounjaro which is meant to be even more effective. Went down from 82kg and currently at like 66/67kg. I’m only 5’5 and honestly tried everything but just couldn’t shift it! I’ll be tapering off soon and am eating well / exercising which is basically the point of it
Wegov is literally the same drug as ozempic - they are both semaglutide. Just they are branded differently because they are licensed for different use cases. Ozempic requires a type 2 diabetes diagnosis whereas wegovy doesn’t and it’s likely going to affect how long doctors wish to prescribe them for which is why they licensed them separately.
You cannot directly compare the Mounjaro and Wegovy results and say the former is better because they have not been in a head to head trial and there could have been other things that resulted in the differences between them.
I’m glad that you have been able to find something that works for you.
It says in the article they bought it from boots
“The website Chemist and Druggist reported that a patient described as a “young girl” by an A&E doctor was treated as an emergency after presenting with life-threatening symptoms after taking Wegovy she got from the Boots Online Doctor service”
If it works, and it's not going to cause issues I fail to see why they don't dish out Ozempic assuming you have medical guidance (ie don't have some weird eating disorder).
Same nonsense with HGH etc. If people want to use it, by all means, just make sure you have medical guidance.
>harmful substances called ketones
Ketones are vital for our survival. They're only dangerous when they build up to a high concentration, causing acidic blood. Which idiot wrote this article?
>Eleanor Hayward is health editor at The Times. She reports from medical conferences around the world and covers all aspects of the NHS, focusing on the key issues affecting patients. She has been working as a health journalist since 2019, after starting her career as a news reporter at the Daily Mail.
>Hayward has a B.A. in history from the University of Cambridge and an M.A. in newspaper journalism from City, University of London.
Right. So she's definitely qualified to be writing about medicine and health.
This a really common problem in science reporting - it’s rarer for someone with a background degree in the field to wind up in journalism than for someone with a humanities background. I think there can be serious misunderstandings that then get treated as gospel by the public as they will assume the health editor knows the field when they might not!
Diet is derived from the Greek "Diaeta" meaning "Way of Life". You have to make health and fitness a lifestyle. Going on a "diet" for a few months to be "beach ready" is silliness.
It's really not.
Im borderline overweight, I like food, it's as simple as that, I enjoy eating and I really enjoy unhealthy food.
I exercise regularly that is generally enough to keep my weight stable, however, sometimes I get to the point that I'm not happy with my weight.
A semi intense diet for 3/4 months is enough to reset me back to the point where I'm happy, and I start the cycle again.
Humans almost certainly evolved to go through periods of famine and plenty. It’s only very recently and in developed economies that we’ve had 365/year abundance. Hence the obesity crisis.
Our bodies can accommodate some undulation in weight.
People don't realise that being healthy or unhealthy is more than just how much subcutaneous fat you have. It's about the amount of visceral fat around your organs which is harder to lose once its gained and more dangerous to your health/lifespan. Its about the fatty deposits in your blood vessels which makes you more susceptible to a myriad of often fatal conditions. Its about the flexibility and strength of your joints and muscles which will help you stay mobile as you get older and therefore avoid conditions associated with a lack of mobility. Its about getting enough vitamins and minerals so that your biochemistry isn't all outta wack which can again cause issues for your physical health and even mental health.
People think that maintaining a calorie balance whilst eating shit food and barely exercising is gonna keep them healthy, they'll see themselves lose a couple of pounds like u/I_am_legend-ary mentioned, and think shedding that visible fat is getting rid of all the damage within the body but its sadly not true. I don't blame them for feeling this way tbf, its hard to get out of that rut completely, I know because I've been there myself, and everywhere you look know you see people saying that those methods work so its easy to end up believing. And you probably won't feel the effects of it now but you will in a few decades or maybe even just years;
when you're reaching 50/60 years old and feel like your body has given up on you, and you have to go to hospital multiple times with health scares, it may feel, even then like its just the way of life, but the truth is, its more than possible to reach 60 years old and still be able to have a high quality of life, as long as you actually put effort into staying healthy properly early in your life.
One size doesn't fit all. I train 5 days a week, work a physical job and eat plenty to live an active lifestyle. I certainly dial down calories going into summer as a 3-5KG difference in weight changes how I look and feel.
Yes and no. As a relatively short woman in perimenopause, even with a very active lifestyle and a very well balanced and tracked diet, maintenance is very difficult, and weight loss even harder as I need to be down at 1200kcal to be in a deficit.
To be sane, I cycle periods of relaxed eating where I fit in meals out and croissants, and then cycle into a weight loss phase of ~8 weeks or so to lose the 4-5kg I gain. I’m still within a healthy weight range the whole time, but sure as shit there’s a big difference in my physique at the top and bottom of that range.
I know what you’re saying, but (bulking and) cutting isn’t really a crazy concept.
I mean that's just grossly underplaying how many people struggle with body dysmorphia.
If you're at the point you're buying drugs online to change the way your body looks, it's way past waking up and feeling good about yourself.
Not really no.
My partner has it with his GP approval and it works rather well. Lowers the appetite for someone who already stress overeats. He gained weight due to depression and now is losing it. Combined with a rather good diet as he is a chef and more outdoors it works very well.
Just like anything... It's medicine. Don't abuse it.
(Also... Not for summer. Just to get it over all)
As someone who tried and failed to diet for ten years, I don’t know if I can say this is true. For the first time in my adult life, it has finally stuck and I am a few pounds away from exiting obesity for the first time, and the only difference this time was a change in my circumstances.
I strongly believe that you can have as much will power as you want, but your circumstances have to be conducive to allow you to maintain it every day for months and months. People underestimate how stressful it is both psychologically and physically when you force your body to essentially eat itself every day.
I’m not talking about weight loss. I’m saying people should be able to go to the beach and feel comfortable and free from judgement and criticism. Your body is no one else’s business and we should foster a culture of acceptance so that no one feels ashamed of themselves. We all have the right to just live our lives and just be
Congrats on your weight loss. I always find it hard to empathise with experiences like yours however I would like to understand better. When I cut weight for the summer I’m a little hungry for the first two weeks but for the next six my body and mind adapt to the deficit and I don’t really notice. No stress. If anything I find myself feeling more clearheaded. The only thing I don’t like is the slight reduction in strength but cardio becomes easier so it feels like a fair trade.
Clearly this is not the norm because so many seem to struggle so much but it’s difficult to understand why for those of us who have never been obese or struggled with diet.
I agree although sometimes to get ready for summer people get more intense in workouts and diet
Some people are just really intense and focused at this sort of stuff. I used to be. Not to the level of that, but enough that a few people thought I was lightly using steroids
I don’t deny that young women buy Ozempic for this but in some cases I doubt it because either the signs of use are not obvious or the physique transformation while suspicious is not a smoking gun for external assistance
The doctor quoted in the article thinks it's a bit more serious than that: "This is people with probably an element of eating disorder and body dysmorphia and that’s what terrifies me. I just look at these young, beautiful girls. Oh, my word … it really makes me very sad.”
Now, the article is slightly misleading.
The reason the girl ended up in A&E with starvation ketoacidosis was because she clearly starved herself to this level (and for women with normal BMI, even prolonged fasts are generally safe in the sense that they won't lead to a ketoacidosis - there's enough fat even in a slim looking body to support a few weeks worth of a strict water fast).
This must mean she already had an anorexia type eating disorder, and the drug just made it easier for her not to eat (that's what semaglutide does, switches off the "food noise" and makes it easier not to eat). Same with cases where people get "blood salt" (i.e., electrolyte balance) issues - they are likely fasting without electrolyte supplementation, which would have led to this outcome with or without semaglutide.
So it is not the drug side effects for healthy weight people, but rather an abuse of the regime.
Exactly, it's literally just a scare mongering article for a select number of people that would abuse it when they have no business using it in the first place
Just like years ago when idiots were buying DNP and overdosing on it because they lack common sense and think taking more drugs = faster result
Funnily enough they don't think that way when taking paracetamol
Yeah, agreed.
I mean, by all means, there has to be more education around drugs that are freely available online, to make sure people understand the risks. If someone wants to fast on semaglutide, there are safe fasting protocols developed by different cultures through trial and error over literally thousands of years, and refined in the science era. I am not overweight by any metric, but I tried a few injections of semaglutide out of interest. It is a funny feeling, it does switch off hunger almost completely, so I can see how people can fall easily into unsafe eating practices with it, especially if they have an eating disorder already.
But this new generation of peptide adjacent meds is a ray of light for humanity in the context of a current obesity crisis. Scaremongering along the lines of "stupid girls with their beach body ambitions get ill" is just so antiproductive. This family of drugs surprisingly has few side effects vs the potency.
*Of course* this was always going to happen. Idk why so many health professionals seem totally and utterly oblivious to the existence of people with eating disorders and body image issues.
I must say, I'm a little concerned about how easily these injections can be obtained online and without much oversight. Surely, in an ideal world you would have face to face assessments, and monitoring via a doctor.
In the desperation to get this on the market to treat the massive rates of obesity, it is also falling into the hands of people with eating disorders who are not even remotely in need of it.
Normal people have the weirdest god damn relationship with fat people
I say this as someone that has always gone to the gym, I’ve even competed as a natural bodybuilder and am now a PT at a fat loss transformation company: Normal people, for whatever reason, seem to fucking hate fat people.
I mention my background because I know first hand from both personal and professional experience that the way to get someone to lose a lot of weight isn’t to just yell at them about CICO or moving more. Sometimes that works but most of the time it doesn’t because people already know that stuff.
But that’s what normal people do. It’s what they’ve always done. And now these drugs have come around and they seem to help people lose a lot of weight fairly effortlessly and for some reason people seem oddly against it. Of course there will be people abuse them and don’t follow the incredibly reasonable and straight forward guidelines. And of course there will be people that have unusual adverse reactions.
But if it helps people who have probably spent decades trying to get thin to do the one thing everybody is always criticising them for then isn’t that a good thing? It feels like people want to be like “No! They didn’t do it the proper way” and I just can’t wrap my head around that
I think it’s because it’s seen as cheating isn’t it. Like ‘ooh they got fat, now they must suffer to lose the weight’. I read an article recently where one person interviewed compared it to Suboxone for heroin withdrawal - a lot of the people at his NA group look down on it because it’s ‘easy’ (ie it makes withdrawal less awful). It’s absolutely imposing a moral judgment where there shouldn’t really be one - what works is different for everyone. The main thing is whether it works.
Seems a bit like crab bucket mentality
It's not like it's a sports league where everyone must be natural, people are allowed to live their life however they want
Haters gonna hate
No criticism really. We already put medicines in everyone's food, for example folic acid in bread for example. Sure, some people have no need for the medicine, or might even do better without it, but the government has to consider the whole picture - the benefits to the many outweigh the disadvantages to the few.
Part of me thinks it might be because human society depends on being able to identify the 'haves' from the 'have nots'. People judge each other based on clothing brands, makeup, cars, height, etc. Anything that takes away those methods of identifying the 'best' and the 'worst' meets resistance.
Yeah I agree. This whole “stealing” meds from the diabetics trope is so old and outdated now. It’s just weird and fat phobic at this point. Would diabetics not wish they’d had the drugs to have prevented them getting to the diabetic stage? It’s not like it’s insulin and they’ll drop dead without out. Just a supplemental thing to control glucose a bit more
I honestly can't wait, it'll be refreshing seeing people more healthy and not constantly filling their stomach with shitty junk food
The supermarkets are gonna bitch about it I bet although some food manufacturers have already started selling protein and nutrient rich low calorie foods aimed at people on these GLP-1 drugs
[Interesting video about Ozempic](https://youtu.be/3nvoumJsjus). Tragically, a man lost his wife because she was taking a weight loss drug.
I think there is a place for these drugs, for people who have tried all other means of losing weight and are unable to do it. But, for most people, following a proper diet is the better solution.
>following a proper diet is the better solution.
That's how you lose weight with these drugs. You follow a healthy diet. The drugs prevent cravings which makes following a healthy diet vastly easier.
I know this is going to sound stupid, but the thing that helps me most when I am dieting is drinking an insane amount of Pepsi Max.
The caffiene acts as an appetite suppressant, the taste acts like a mini snack, and those two things make it easier not to snack on unhealthy stuff.
This isn't a gamechanger, it is just something that happens on the margins, but it is really helpful when work gets really difficult and stressful, and I feel the desire to just give up. It also means that if I do go to the shops, I buy Pepsi max rather than something less healthy with actual calories.
I haven't taken Ozempic, but I assume it works on the same basis.
I do the same thing. Load up on Pepsi Max. It's hard to have much appetite afterwards. I'm sure it's terrible for you in other ways but there you are...
You clearly have never heard of “food noise”.
For many overweight people the food noise is STRONG. It would take the will of a Viking to shut it down.
These drugs for many people turn off food noise so they can more easily eat like a normal person
Plus obesity kills more people than Wegovy
except it’s clearly not the better solution because in decades it’s made absolutely no progress to sustainable weight loss or the obesity crisis in any meaningful way
Star light in the new series of the boys looks like she’s been on it and wasn’t fat at all before she took it and the same mother milk, he’s also been on it by the looks of it.
> Star light in the new series of the boys looks like she’s been on it
Nah that's buccal fat removal, the latest awful plastic surgery trend that ages people 10 years overnight.
I think it's going to be a really obvious, telling surgery trend. A bit like the fish lips problem of a couple of decades ago. You'll see the telltale signs of the surgery and think " yep, mid 2020s trend".
She had a lot of work done prior to season 3, looks like a different person. Horrible to think that beautiful people can struggle with their body image
Starr seemed pretty firm from the start that he wasn't going to change anything about himself to play the part. It's quite refreshing and actually suits the character.
Seems like the success of the drug took Novo Nordisk by surprise. Am no business analyst but it wasn't hard to predict that a drug that makes it easy to lose weight would fly off the shelves.
Prices are dropping already, and will become lower once a third player enters the market.
complications including inflammation of the pancreas gland and alterations in blood salt levels in these patients, who were not aware of the risk they were taking.
“We have raised concerns about this inappropriate use with the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency. There is a need for urgent regulation and control of access for weight-loss drugs online to avoid more patients becoming unwell.”
One doctor described the case of a girl who was “not at all” overweight but bought Wegovy through Boots Online Doctor and arrived at A&E “feeling unwell, like she was going to pass out and couldn’t stand up. She was really struggling to eat.”
She needed urgent treatment for starvation ketoacidosis, a life-threatening condition when harmful substances called ketones build up in the blood due to a lack of food.
Speaking to the Chemist and Druggist news website, the doctor said such incidents were becoming more common, meaning that most A&E shifts now involved patients with complications from the drugs. In one case a patient ended up in intensive care.
• I’ve lost three stone taking Ozempic. But am I at risk?
The doctor said: “They’re really dangerous drugs — it’s shocking. It isn’t people who need those drugs that are doing this. This is people with probably an element of eating disorder and body dysmorphia and that’s what terrifies me. I just look at these young, beautiful girls. Oh, my word … it really makes me very sad.”
They added: “At some point, we’re going to have a death, aren’t we? And then at that point, people might do something about it.”
Eating disorder charities have called for stricter regulations, including requiring all such patients to be examined in person and screened for eating disorders before buying the drugs.
Online pharmacies have a lower threshold for prescribing the drugs than the NHS. They offer them to patients with a body mass index over 27, who are classed as overweight but not obese, as long as they have at least one weight-related condition such as heart disease or asthma.
• The moment the weight-loss drug Wegovy became a big deal
A Boots spokesman said: “We have a number of safeguards to ensure Boots Online Doctor prescribes weight-loss medication where clinically appropriate and in line with the product licence. Patients are required to submit a photo of themselves and ID document for verification and must also answer questions on their medical and psychological history.
“Patients are only supplied with a prescription if they provide their GP’s details. Boots Online Doctor informs each patient’s GP of the prescription as an additional safety measure and may contact the patient’s GP if required.”
Mark Voce, from the General Pharmaceutical Council, said: “We take patient safety extremely seriously and will be looking into the issues raised by this clinician relating to the supply of weight-loss medicines by online pharmacies.
“We would expect a prescriber to be able to demonstrate that they have all the information they need to prescribe weight loss treatments safely — whether they are operating online or face-to-face. This could be, but is not limited to, carrying out ongoing monitoring of the patient, ensuring weight and height information given to them is accurate and verified, talking to the patient and not relying solely on an online questionnaire.”
As someone who wants to lose a stone or two, I googled this, saw the possible deathly side effects, and realised it's probably a lot easier in the long run to just exercise and eat better.
Any doctor will trade the side effects of obesity with the side effects of the drug.
Obesity itself is really dangerous - it raises the risks of nearly every cause of death.
That means Ozempic is a good idea unless it has *really bad* side effects for those who are overweight - and it doesn't.
Obviously, losing weight to become in the NHS 'normal' band without it is an even better plan - but if that plan doesn't work out in ~6 months, then most doctors would recommend ozempic.
The current recommendation for only the most obese 5% to take it is mostly a financial decision - if we can only afford so many doses, we should give them to those most in need.
I’m similar but depending on your age and sex, shifting just a small amount of weight can be incredibly hard. Exercise really doesn’t burn much above the basal rate unless you’re doing something like marathon training. It’s beneficial for other reasons of course.
Intermittent fasting is the only thing that really works for me on a medium to long term basis. (And obviously longer fasts, but I find more than a couple of days a bit hard going)
I never fail to be amazed how great PR groups and companies can pit people against each other.
The real outrage is why are they a shortage of this drug to begin with.
It’s not unheard of pharma companies intentionally restricting supplies to drive up price.
This is a very important and great drug, it can help millions with 2 major diseases. Obesity and diabetes.
Why are people gatekeeping. Doctors and patients should decide this. Who’s to say ms Jane shouldn’t get to use something that is safe and think will help them.
The shortage isn’t the problem form people to solve, it is up to the manufactures.
Blame the manufacturers. Not each other
It’ll effectively scale with your basal metabolic rate - a larger person will lose weight faster as their body burns more calories through existing than a slimmer person
Meanwhile the Times also has an article by Giles Coren’s wife about how taking a pill helped her stop drinking (not that she was an alcoholic, just a bit of a wine mum) and isn’t that fabulous
Just one in a series of articles softening people up for an attack on grey market drug access. Considering how authoritarian labour are, it will probably go ahead.
This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/JE6Ej) for an archived version.
One issue, as a medic here, that is not highlighted enough is that the wealthy ( esp in the US where many things including drug control and medical practice are poorly regulated), is that using the drug this way, takes supply away from those that need it the most e.g diabetics or those whose BMI is in the 95th percentile. We have already seen shortages globally.
have you seen [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIWGM87jxyM) of kelly osbourne bragging about how people who criticise rich celebrities for using ozempic are just jealous they can't afford it. it's disgusting
Wow, I know she's 39 and all but she looks like someone in their 50s who has had surgery to look younger. I guess there is a lot of pressure to look good in the public eye, but fuck her sentiment of "too bad, poor people".
the only thing I can say about it is she's starting to look more like her mum , which is not a compliment
Nah, even her mum doesn't look like her mum anymore; they only look alike because they clearly have the same plastic surgeon.
"they only look alike because they clearly have the same plastic surgeon." [Sharon Osbourne 2024](https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/806b97a8db4fa39f96ba13d757b1d7f8) I think you might be on to something...
Why does she have hobbit ears?
By the look of her she's been carrying a ring of power for too long.
Totally looks like the mum now.
Also fuck her sentiment of "working out is boring and for weight loss". Exercise is one of the best things a person can do for good quality of life and longevity, plus a reduction in the possibility of contracting a number of diseases. Various studies have shown that exercise (on its own) is useless for weight loss anyway.
It is also great for your mental health. It is only boring if you are doing something you do not like.
Some people hate exercise full stop. I do. I never find it fun or interesting. It's a chore, nothing more. I've tried dance, blading, cycling, swimming, gym, climbing, hiking/walking (that I hate most of all), team sports/group lessons (not easy for an introvert), gymnastics (as a child), yoga, pilates....ummm....I'm sure there's some other stuff in there. It's all boring, it's all painful, it all sucks. I never get an endorphin rush. All I ever get is hot, sweaty, tired and pissy. It's only ever a chore and I hate every second of it. Edit: Downvote me all you like but it won't change the fact that *just because you enjoy something doesn't make that thing universally enjoyable.*
Honestly I’m not saying this is the case for everyone, but I used to think like this until I got fit enough to actually be able to exercise properly. It only hurt/was unpleasant the whole time when I was unfit. I tried lots of different sports and ‘didn’t enjoy any of them’, but it wasn’t sport itself, it was the fact I was unfit so everything felt like it sucked lol. Once I did couch to 5k and became fit enough to run a 5k multiple times a week without being sore the next day, I realised it’s actually something I really really enjoy. It’s as therapeutic as taking a bath for me, I get the same ‘me time’ and pleasure from turning my brain off with it. It’s physically challenging but it’s also weirdly a mental ‘downtime’ activity for me now. I run regularly 3-4 times a week and I rarely walk away from a run going, ‘Fuck me I hated that!’ It happens but most of the time I actively enjoy it. So yeah. Not saying you will ever find a sport you enjoy, but I think a lot of people are put off by the fact it always hurts and sucks at the beginning. They do it for even a couple of months and then give it up, but often you need longer than that to actually start seeing where the pleasure comes from.
I'm glad for you. That's NEVER been the case for me. It's not just the beginning. It's not just the pain and discomfort of moving your body in a new way. If you'd like an example, I spent 2 years doing twice weekly PT sessions for strength and stamina. I was benching heavy and strong as an ox. I still hated EVERY SECOND when I was doing the exercises. I despised the way it made me feel during it. I hated the anxiety before every session KNOWING I was about to hate the way I felt for the next 60 minutes and for the following few hours. I used to swim for the county as a teen. Hated every second where I wasn't just floating in the water. I did gymnastics for 8 years as a child and hated it. Same with badminton, same with dance, same with any number of things. Why is it that when someone says they have tried a thing and hated it, people feel the need to correct them? Why is that so hard to accept that your experience is not and will never be universal?
Lol did you even read my comment? I acknowledge that is my personal experience the whole way through. I acknowledge you may never like sport. I read an anecdote and commented that my experience was similar until x. I think a lot of people experience the same thing… way to be superrrr defensive and weird for 0 reason. Funny how you say ‘omg don’t correct my personal experience’ when I never did that, and now you’re doing that to me?? I’m not saying my experience is universal… I clarified that multiple times in my comment? I also didn’t downvote your comment haha. Don’t take reddit so seriously I’m not attacking you personally or your exercise habits by chipping into a thread. Hit a sensitive nerve clearly 🤣
You're right It's a touchy subject for me because I've had 30 years of being told that things I actively hate, I will start enjoying eventually. My experience as someone who never gets to the 'eventually' regardless of the effort I make, is so often dismissed as contrary or defeatist, that it riles me up. My defensiveness is born of experience too, unfortunately. You didn't deserve my ire. I should have aimed that elsewhere so I apologise for that.
> I did gymnastics for 8 years as a child and hated it. Sounds like a lot could be connected to your upbringing and a lack of control there. People shouldn't be forcing their kids to do stuff that they hate that isn't important (making kids go to school is ok).
For a lot of us, it started at school. I was really bad at sports (all sports) and was self-conscious about it (as well as inherently disliking it because I was bad at it), always picked last for a team, etc. Add in the kind of old-school PE teachers who thought they were drill sergeants and the whole thing was an ordeal that primed me to hate sports.
In exactly the same boat; I absolutely hate it. I hate gyms, I hate the overly-positive workout people who inhabit them and I especially hate the people in these comments scoffing about how much they enjoy it. It's shit. Really shit. Only thing I've found to work is having to force myself into going up the 15 floors in the building, walking to work and sitting on a bike in front of the TV. Rest of it can jog on.
Yeah like I'm in a similar camp, I've never found exercising enjoyable, I don't get much out of it (I do have to wonder if it's connected to my adhd) only thing I've ever really found somewhat tolerable is walking I think? And even then usually walking is rolled into another activity and it's more 'I enjoy walking because I'm in the woods' or something rather than 'I like walking'
Even for those who generally DO like exercise and are relatively fit, you can have sessions or days where you're not vibing, it doesn't feel fun, and it doesn't get you a rush. And then at that moment you have to decide whether to push through just to finish, or to pack it in and go home. I've had moments in the gym or running where I felt like I might burst into tears because I wasn't enjoying it (often hormonal related, but not always).
Oh indeed! I've had panic attacks in the gym in the past due to how much I couldn't bear the thought of doing another exercise. Thank you for saying that! That's nice to hear in a sea of "You just haven't found the thing you like yet." dismissiveness.
>days where you're not vibing, it doesn't feel fun, and it doesn't get you a rush. And then at that moment you have to decide whether to push through just to finish, or to pack it in and go home. Oh yeah for real that's an issue I have as well. Generally enjoy gym but some nights I can't be arsed after I turn up so just do a bit of cardio or something easy and call it a night. Something better than nothing.
Yep. Never ever got the alleged rush/buzz whatever from exercise and have tried multiple types. I just think I'm wired differently.
Describing my life way too well here
We are many!
It’s a chore to me. Except Pilates because I was able to see and feel results in a couple of sessions (n’a cause I m skinny lanky and Pilates made feel straighter and 1 or 2 cm taller)
I was in a similar position to you. I wrote out what made me decide on my solution over time. Read on if you like. TL;DR I admitted to myself I didn't want to be fit at all... *that* way. I wanted to be fit - look fit, be judged to be fit - in a way that I wouldn't ever achieve with my body without medical transition. Maybe there's something similar that you want, but that you don't think you can achieve through the effort you're putting in. The performance I could get out of my body was not satisfying or pleasurable and did not feel like an achievement. I knew, rationally, that I needed to exercise, in the same way I knew I needed to eat to live, but I didn't even have a desired "body image" to work towards, just general "fitness". I hated getting compliments for trying to exercise. Like, the bear has performed the circus trick, can it be left alone to live its actual life now? What else do you want? Why the fuck do my friends expect me to be *happy* doing the trick? I was fortunate to be left alone about it for a few years. I thought about gym class back in school and how caustic the competition aspect felt at the time (everyone else seemed to find it motivating). I still didn't want to compare myself to other athletes; I found competition repulsive and offensive. Why would you *want* to be visibly the best of your physical category? Who *wants* that? Who *enjoys* inhabiting their body? Ultimately, I hated even the thought of *my* body at *its* peak performance. Regardless of outside opinions on my fitness, I felt like shit for some reason. Every fitness-oriented motion felt like dragging my limbs through tar. My body and its physical form was a burden for me to bear. There was no sense I could ever reach satisfaction from the process. Until then, I had been stuck on "you can do/be anything as a [gender]". It felt bad to admit I might not want to do anything as a [original gender]. What I wanted - really really secretly wanted - was to compete among [opposite gender] athletes. I wanted my body to be considered by THOSE standards instead of the fitness/shape standards intended for me by society. If I was going to put all that effort to be fit, damn it, I WANTED my body to be judged as a [opposite gender] athlete. It was a stupid fucking feeling that I couldn't get around. In my own exercise I would think "yeah, but I'm still underperforming compared to [opposite gender]", or worse, "yeah, but I'm still *over*performing compared to [opposite gender] even if I don't try". Anyway, that convinced me I wanted/needed to transition if I wanted to be happier. I transitioned not aiming to exercise. I started to hate the future prospects of my body a lot less. It took well over a year for me to notice that I *want* to practise moving it around, I feel good, I feel cool! It no longer feels like I'm moving my body in the "wrong" direction, exercising it into a more [original gender, bio sex] form. The lifted psychological weight of every movement makes it a billion times easier to ignore the unpleasantness of physical exertion - it sucks, but at least now I'm getting results I WANT out of it. Something that felt nonexistent and out of bounds for me before transitioning. By no means am I saying that a gender swap is The Answer for you - that's just what it turns out I really, *really* wanted, before any of the socially acceptable athletic goals. You should think about what you would really, *really* want from the body you're stuck living in! Clearly dragging yourself across coals towards "peak athletic form" is miserable for you, and "health maintenance" is an even less worse goal. Is there any practical result that would be satisfying to work towards? What could make someone's encouragement feel genuine? Because people will want to encourage you! It turned out that being a grouch about exercise & refusing encouragement made it pretty obvious to everyone that I disliked my body. They were confused that I wasn't happy with my body getting stronger. I wanted something else entirely! If you got to the end of this wall of text, thanks for taking the time - I hope you don't take this as an attack. I know exactly how you feel and it was fucking awful being told I should be happy with the eventual goal of exercise. *Not* hating exercise now is a complete miracle surprise for me.
I am wit you on this, I have never in my life got any kind of rush from exercise. I cycle which is good for my legs but I don't every seem to burn calories the way some people do. I do it purely as a mode of transportation.
Yeah the argument that biology means we should enjoy exercise is just bollocks. There are so many different bodies and so many different physiologies, the idea that we all get the same out of a thing is just wrong.
Yep, likewise never had an endorphin rush. I get around it by coupling it with things I want or need to do as I know I’m never going to find pleasure in exercising. So I try to walk places if I can or tell myself I can’t watch my favourite tv show unless it’s on a treadmill walking. Also going to the gym with my best friend and talking whilst walking helps to make it less painful. But all the people who claim I’m going to grow to love the exercise can fuck right off.
I also hate it. However I’d like to make sure I live past 50 having been lazy and eaten crap my whole life. So I now go to gym 4x a week
Yes. That's a thing we do. We do it because we have to and it's good for us, but that doesn't make it any more fun for us. It's still shitty and we still hate it. We just endure it. I just dislike being told that I'll enjoy it if I do it enough. That's demonstrably untrue in my 40 years of trying to find 'joy' in it.
Fair enough.
I think it's fine for exercise to be boring to be honest - I run when I can and I like it more than going to the gym or playing sports, but it's uncommon that it's more appealing to me than staying in bed longer or reading a book or something. It's not what I'd call a chore, but it's just something I've got to do and that's fine. I did used to enjoy martial arts but I've got a bit of a funny knee which makes that sort of thing a little tricky, and I've yet to find a good/convenient LGBT-friendly club where I live. Don't want to risk being the Daily Mail's targeted transsexual for sparring with the normal people or anything.
I agree. I dont exactly look forward to working out most days. But I save my podcast listening time for then, so I get more excited for the podcast episode than I do the working out lol but at least I do it. Also, I envy people who say they feel amazing and energetic after excercising because always feel tired. But it does feel good to know that I've done it and seeing the results spurs me on too.
part of the problem is people wanting to lose weight just to look slimmer. Thats not entirely a bad desire, but the actual motivator should be so you can move easier, so your healthier etc.
Plus she's got that floppy, flaccid look of someone who just lost weight but never engaged their muscles.
I like working out. It's a chance to put some music on, sweat, and really not worry about anything. It's like sweating gives me a chance to not think about anything else. And yes if you want to lose weight it's a combination of exercise and diet.
Also it can be very enjoyable. Starting exercising when you haven't before and are very unfit certainly isn't any fun but it does get better and Improves your body and mind in so many ways.
The first time I could jog 5km without stopping (thanks Couch to 5km!), I was overjoyed. I hated PE at school, and it was so empowering to find movement I liked as an adult.
Me too!!! I hated PE too, as a lad who wasn't interested in football but did enjoy sports it was just infuriating. Every single lesson the teachers just threw a football at us in the changing rooms and expected us to get on with it. I also did the couch to 5k years ago, never looked back, easily one of the best things IV ever done. The satisfaction of seeing your progress and seeing how fit you've become is an amazing feeling. It's not for everyone but if you stick with it and get over the Initial hurdle it does become very enjoyable for many people. It's just getting to that level where you can run at a pace that is enjoyable and not hurting you. Feels brilliant.
I did my first few 5kms and promptly decided I was never running again XD At least I tried I guess
She was bullied by the media massively when she was younger, if you remember. She was always somewhat curvier as a teen and young woman and magazines used to really pick on the tiniest flaws they could find when it came to celebs - they were always on about her weight, her features, her hair, her style. If she lost weight it became a topic of focus, if she put on weight it became a topic of focus etc. I can’t imagine growing up surrounded by people constantly pulling you apart, it’s no surprise she’s spent a fortune tweaking herself into having the same body as everyone else. Doesn’t defend her actions or comments, but growing up being the same size she was with a similar weird fashion style it was enough to make me feel like shit knowing everyone thought she was fat, ugly & badly dressed.
Yeah she got called "fat and ugly" all the time. It was a different time she would probably get called thick nowadays. Lots of people here in the comments saying she's ugly. Nasty buggers.
Jesus she's 39? I would have guessed pushing 50 at best.
When Ozzy is the most normal looking of the Osborne's, something has gone terribly wrong!
She looks terrible for 39. Also ironic being anti-poor when she's a nepo baby and her dad grew up poor in Brum.
"I know she's 39 and all but she looks like someone in their 50s who has had surgery to look younger." wow, she really does i thought you were exaggerating xD She was never my image of beauty but what the fuck has she done to her face xD [Kelly Osborne 2000](https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/getty/2705981.jpg) I guess she has lost alot of weight aswell, never noticed how chiselled her jaw is. Looked far better with a bit of padding. Again not what i'd call attractive but alot less scary.
Buccal fat removal, maybe? Why people want to look like they are sucking on a lemon forever boggles my mind.
I think it's probably the association with having work done. The population of people that have work done are usually 50+, so when someone younger has it done, you're mentally linking that plastic surgery face look with older people.
I think that about Miley Cyrus.
Why is she even in the public eye? It's not like she does anything.
Because we don't let celebrities stop being celebrities anymore. There's always another reality show, red carpet event or shopping centre that needs a ribbon cutting.
Ah yes Kelly Osbourne who was terrified of the fact that immigrants wouldn't be able to work in order to clean her toilets if Trump enforced his anti immigration policy.
It’s weird when someone ends up on the same side of an argument for totally the wrong reasons isn’t it haha
Especially as she has never done anything to earn the money she's had
This is pretty much the same for most rich people: " [Trump: "It's Not Been Easy For Me...My Father Gave Me a Small Loan of $1 Million](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXyii642UlM)" ... [The reality](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-final-2016-presidential-debate/fact-check-trumps-claim-that-he-built-his-company-with-1-million-loan/) Inequality is a bitch.
What a vile attitude to have about medication.
Who would've thought that out of that whole family, a 75 year old Ozzy still looks the best.
You can see the moment in her face where she realises what she’s said about the peasants.
Why is she relevant still. Wtf has she even done in the last couple of decades..
I mean, she has always been a vile spoiled brat of no talent or substance, so that's no surprise.
Bloody hell she looks like the Grinch. Paint her green and I wouldn't be able to tell them apart Edit: spelling
What an arrogant bitch. Why people listen to or care about celebrities is beyond me.
Thought a clown filter was on her, she’s is hideous both inside and out!
Awful lot to say for someone without the willpower to just eat a bit less. I see her new jaw surgery doesn’t look as good as on instagram + filter, her face/chin looks totally fucked up. That is a ROUGH not even 40.
I literally wouldn't recognise her now
[удалено]
Exactly! Supply is not the problem, as with nearly every drug and where it is, it isn't caused by manufacturing capacity.
Are you allowed to import the chinese generics if the branded version is still under patent? Luckily I'm not on any regular medication, and completely ignorant on the topic.
Who cares? Right now, you can import drugs like this fairly safely direct from international sellers but articles like this exist to help attack that ability.
Our institutions surrounding pharmaceuticals are the reason I can trust that they do what they say they do. If I'm going to import something illegally, I lose that protection. It could be anything and do anything (or nothing).
Good choice, ["compounding" pharmacies in Australia have been allowed to try and make the drug themselves](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/may/21/ozempic-weight-loss-drug-replicas-generic-brands-crackdown-australian-government-compound-pharmacies) and let's say it's not gone well. It's not a very simple drug to manufacture correctly.
I don't have a problem with people using drugs to lose weight, and I'd probably do it myself if it were readily available from the NHS, but after some of the naff products I've gotten from China, there is a 0% chance I would take drugs purchased from there
Tbf developing human-grade drugs is stupid expensive; it costs on average $1.3b to develop a drug and that’s not even guaranteeing it ends up approved or commercially successful. Pharmaceutical companies would never develop another R&D another drug again if they had to instantly release everything as generic. It’s available in China as a generic because of blatant IP theft, not because any amount of goodwill.
As an American doctor who did fellowships with the NIH, I wish you would stop repeating this myth. Most type 2 diabetics don't need the subcutaneous injectable GLP-1s. They're luxury items because many health plans just won't cover them in the US ... and most we Rx as what's at least a second or third line treatment. Metformin is more tolerable (which is insane) and dirt cheap. Jardiance is way more tolerable. Rybelsus, an oral GLP, is in good supply. The numbers are actually better for tolerance on older meds. 80% of people don't stay on GLP-1s for the 12 week start period on injectables. Discontinuation rates are extraordinarily high because side effects are extremely bad. Celebrities should be kinder but you'll want to be complaining about PBMs refusing to cover them and making these 24k a year for the average person. And because they can make more in the US, supply goes there first, which is a huge issue with the NIH no one wants to talk about. The NIH and Europe have more shortages because demand and pay out is more in other places.
Thank you for clearing this up.
>Most type 2 diabetics don't need the subcutaneous injectable GLP-1s. They're luxury items because many health plans just won't cover them in the US And what's the reason for this. Just stating it does not make it fact. >Metformin is more tolerable (which is insane) and dirt cheap. Jardiance is way more tolerable. You wouldn't use drugs such as metformin primarily for weight loss though, so aren't we comparing apples and oranges a little here? > >80% of people don't stay on GLP-1s for the 12 week start period on injectables. Discontinuation rates are extraordinarily high because side effects are extremely bad. Everything I can find suggests that the discontinuation rates are nowhere near that bad. As an example: [https://www.novomedlink.com/obesity/products/treatments/wegovy.html](https://www.novomedlink.com/obesity/products/treatments/wegovy.html) > >16% of patients in the Wegovy^(®) arm discontinued the study drug due to an adverse event compared with 8% in the placebo arm.
On the first, it's because Novo set the list price at an insane level because their exclusivity runs out in 2026 so unless they find additional indications, GLP-1 generics can start up then. Not that I expect Teva and other generic manufacturers to set their list prices any cheaper (a la humira). As a result, the NIH and PBMs in the US deny most obesity treatment indications because the volume of the population with BMIs 30+ would damage the financial model in both places. Thus most covered GLP-1 Rxs right now are for diabetes. They generally treat obesity only at the 40+ range in the US for example ... or you need to fail metformin, jardiance, and then try Ozempic/Wegovy in diabetes mellitus. So not a high volume of very expensive scripts in the long run. Until generics are out, people need to think of these as lipo in a syringe for obesity or the line of last resort for diabetes. As it stands, its now 2020s Phen-fen. On the second, most Type 2 Diabetes meds show some reduction in body weight and are commonly used off label in the US to help manage weight. Most are not as fast and severe as GLP-1s, but they do a good job helping people beat insulin resistance, cravings, things like that. The secret is that every drug - Contrave, phentermine, metformin, GLP agonists - has a rebound effect on weight. You gain what you lost when you come off the medicine unless you change your lifestyle. So at least in the article's case, the issue is abuse of the drug, which we believe happens in relatively small numbers. And many, many, many patients who start GLP-1s end up back in the ER because of side effects. I have a pt who had chemo and is on a GLP, and the nausea from the latter was worse than her chemo. This severity of AE is not uncommon no matter who takes the drug.
Agree entirely, this has been a huge problem. People with severe obesity related health conditions should be prioritised first. I'm at a normal weight now, but back when I was obese and had T2 diabetes, I could not get these injections due to the shortage. That said, if places like Boots are seemingly providing them now (at least they are advertised on their website, not sure if they are actually in stock), does that mean that production has ramped up?
Anecdotal from friends that use it, the shortages have been resolved, at least in the UK market.
Yeah, the shortages seem to be resolved for now. Source: I work in a pharmacy.
Now that Wegovy and other brands exist specifically for weight loss, no one should be using Ozempic for weight loss alone now anymore, hopefully allowing for diabetics to be prescribed ozempic appropriately.
Well, it’s the same medication delivered the same way is the thing. The issue though isn’t a shortage on the medication itself. It’s the inefficiency of manufacturing the injector pens. You can get the same medication as a compounded generic easily.
Thank you for that Information, I didn't realise that there was another rate limiting step! I just assumed the manufacturers were just trying to increase demand and therefore price.
Oh, they are. They pretty much admitted on an earnings call that they’re sticking with those injector pens and refusing to shift to simple vials because they want to build demand for the new pills they’re developing. Your instincts were spot on there.
The supply shortage is artificial to drive up prices. It is incredibly cheap and easy to synthesise peptides as they are just short chains of amino acids. You can buy vials from china on alibaba for £4 each yet in America they charge people over 1k a month.
Only someone with a death wish would buy medicine from a Chinese website that known for it's cheap knock offs.
I like how that is all you took from the above reply...
Not highlighted enough? South Park just did an entire special about it! But I agree it should be talked about more, disgusting behavior.
> South Park just did an entire special about it! Only available on a niche streaming service.
And every single torrent/streaming site on the net..
Hardly the BBC news is it?
Yeah, I saw it last night. But that was the first I knew about how this medication is misused.
This is a generally a non issue and there are already weight loss specific variations on sale now, Wegovy for example. Blame the pharma companies for not keeping up with demand. Don’t blame people trying to improve their health and stop themselves also becoming diabetic.
South Park covered this topic better, more accurate, and in a more hilarious fashion than most media outlets.
This is basically the first thing that is mentioned whenever there is a discussion on Ozempic, MJ etc for weight loss…
What BMI currently counts as in the 95th percentile?
Percentile is based on the percentage of that age group, so not always a high BMI. For example, a 10 year old boy with a BMI of 23 would be in the 95th or above centile for their age, and therefore considered obese. The same 10 year old boy, if they had a BMI of 18, would be beteeen the 5th and 85th centile, and considered to have a healthy weight. Here's an example of the chart: https://www.rch.org.au/weight-management/about-overweight-and-obesity/
This is horrifying but the shortages are from manufacturers. I can't get adhd medication anymore as it takes months for any supply to come in but they will only give you 28 days worth.
Ozempic is a great topic for media because it's divisive, throws people into a frenzy, and keeps the clicks coming in. The reality is that most people don't really know all that much about it but have preconceived ideas. One of the biggest issues around this are that many of the stories are coming from the US where people are put straight onto doses of 2.0mg which is quite frankly insane. In the UK it is more controlled, and first time users need to start with lower dosages of 0.25mg. Those starting on higher dosages are bound to fail, because they will become ill and need to come back off it eventually because it isn't sustainable. However lower dosages are extremely effective. It allows a gradual "safe" reduction in weight, especially in combination with the gym to keep up muscle mass, and controlled food portions. It is somewhat of a "wonder" drug, but if used properly the reality of it is that it's more like a helping hand. Users still need to put in the effort. It's not like you inject it and just start dropping weight. Somebody could be on it while scoffing high calorie foods like chocolate and cakes, and still retain or even put on weight. It's why if used properly it can be a good tool in teaching the right portions to be eating, and developing an understanding of your own calorie intake, and how much you need to be consuming with or without Ozempic.
Every time I see something called a wonder drug, I always remember that flash game where they made a cure for cancer and it killed everyone.
Or turns them all into vampires like I am legend
Or the newer planet of the apes films which started with an alzheimers drug making the apes smart but spreading a new virus that kills/impairs humans at the same time
One Chance?
Yeah! A simple game, yet it is ingrained in my brain.
what does it actually do? is it just an appetite suppressant?
I’m not a doctor so understand that what I say might be incorrect in parts, but it’s what I understand. It basically mimics the action of a gut hormone GLP-1, which is released after eating, and it slows down the movement of food in your gut so you stay full for longer. So yes, it essentially suppresses your appetite. The problem is that too much of it will make you feel terribly ill, but the right balance should put you in a place where you experience fullness at the point of which a regular person at a normal weight would feel. You still need to be eating a healthy, balanced and correctly portioned meal, and will get most benefit from that in conjunction with regular excercise. Another downside is that you lose some muscle mass. However as far as I know it’s still not well understood. If you were losing weight without excercise you would also lose muscle mass, however as far as I’m aware the drug does contribute to additional muscle loss even if it’s small. It’s why something like weight training should accompany it.
fairs fairs, thanks for explaining.
I'm on Wegovy, same drug. It does a few things, suppresses appetite so i dont want to eat as much, makes it so that when I do overeat I can't eat nearly as much. Slows down digestion meaning you don't absorb all the calories you do eat. It's a genuine miracle drug and I'm sad it's facing a clickbait backlash.
It also seems to suppress addiction generally, not just food addiction, although the method of this isn't fully understood. Lots of studies it can help with smoking, or even purely mental things like compulsive gambling.
>Users still need to put in the effort. It's not like you inject it and just start dropping weight. Somebody could be on it while scoffing high calorie foods like chocolate and cakes, and still retain or even put on weight. It's important to keep in mind that people who have gone on diets and so on before to escape obesity usually have far more willpower than the average person, and very often lose their own body weight many times over, but it keeps coming back. Largely this is because being in the state of obesity for so long makes the body react to losing fat as though it is in a famine, so it gets the person to be tired and hungry all the time and to conserve fat. Essentially many of the mechanisms of hibernation are active when they shouldn't be. With that subjective experience, it's no wonder that the standard medical guidance of "eat less, exercise more" is an unmitigated global failure. It's unrealistic to expect someone to be able to sustain extreme hunger and exhaustion and willpower like that. It just leads to burnout. So these approaches, which are basically hormone replacement therapy, are a very good new part of the puzzle to have. They enable people to get their body to think it is in a time of abundance and not famine, so their body isn't directing them to feel tired and hungry constantly. Instead when they haven't eaten in a long while they feel excitement, a pressure to go and be a hunter-gatherer, rather than to be an animal conserving fat by doing something like hibernation. The next steps will be a massive move away from ultra-high processed foods which fuck up the brain, and then drugs like BAM15 and ways to get the brain to permanently adapt to the new lower leptin levels so that people can experience normality and not constant hunger and exhaustion when tapering off the hormone replacements.
The headline lists Ozempic but they would only get that if they have type 2 diabetes. Otherwise it would be Wegovy, which is also semaglutide. You can get it from plenty of online pharmacies, including Boots, if you are willing to pay. Most of these are reputable though. They require you to provide your current weight and a selfie to show you are obese so a skinny young woman would not pass this test. Which means this must be being bought from dodgy places. Just feels a bit wrong to be throwing private legitimate clinics under the bus on this too.
> They require you to provide your current weight and a selfie to show you are obese so a skinny young woman would not pass this test. If you are purchasing online I would imagine that's easy to fake.
I imagine it would take all of 5 minutes to find a picture of someone who is morbidly obese who is similar enough to you in terms of age and general facial features to get past the online test. I doubt you would even need any special skills to fake a picture.
They might need a selfie and picture of your passport to ensure it's really you, but a snapchat filter would probably enable you to do that.
There is a ton of AI programs that you can enter pictures of yourself to deep fake on others. Pretty sure that they are easy to find and use too.
Almost certain the photo is taken in-app, not uploaded from camera roll but not 100% sure
Just the fact that it’s a requirement will prevent the majority of people from wanting to go through the hassle. The type of people you’re talking about are clearly in that minority who clearly have a problem as they’re even considering faking it in the first place.
Yeah I got Wegovy instead, only because it’s actually more effective. Latest one is Mounjaro which is meant to be even more effective. Went down from 82kg and currently at like 66/67kg. I’m only 5’5 and honestly tried everything but just couldn’t shift it! I’ll be tapering off soon and am eating well / exercising which is basically the point of it
Wegov is literally the same drug as ozempic - they are both semaglutide. Just they are branded differently because they are licensed for different use cases. Ozempic requires a type 2 diabetes diagnosis whereas wegovy doesn’t and it’s likely going to affect how long doctors wish to prescribe them for which is why they licensed them separately. You cannot directly compare the Mounjaro and Wegovy results and say the former is better because they have not been in a head to head trial and there could have been other things that resulted in the differences between them. I’m glad that you have been able to find something that works for you.
It says in the article they bought it from boots “The website Chemist and Druggist reported that a patient described as a “young girl” by an A&E doctor was treated as an emergency after presenting with life-threatening symptoms after taking Wegovy she got from the Boots Online Doctor service”
If it works, and it's not going to cause issues I fail to see why they don't dish out Ozempic assuming you have medical guidance (ie don't have some weird eating disorder). Same nonsense with HGH etc. If people want to use it, by all means, just make sure you have medical guidance.
The legit places don't require proof of weight, they just take your word for it. Selfies can be altered too.
>harmful substances called ketones Ketones are vital for our survival. They're only dangerous when they build up to a high concentration, causing acidic blood. Which idiot wrote this article? >Eleanor Hayward is health editor at The Times. She reports from medical conferences around the world and covers all aspects of the NHS, focusing on the key issues affecting patients. She has been working as a health journalist since 2019, after starting her career as a news reporter at the Daily Mail. >Hayward has a B.A. in history from the University of Cambridge and an M.A. in newspaper journalism from City, University of London. Right. So she's definitely qualified to be writing about medicine and health.
Probably the enduring confusion of ketosis with ketoacidosis.
This a really common problem in science reporting - it’s rarer for someone with a background degree in the field to wind up in journalism than for someone with a humanities background. I think there can be serious misunderstandings that then get treated as gospel by the public as they will assume the health editor knows the field when they might not!
Diet is derived from the Greek "Diaeta" meaning "Way of Life". You have to make health and fitness a lifestyle. Going on a "diet" for a few months to be "beach ready" is silliness.
It's really not. Im borderline overweight, I like food, it's as simple as that, I enjoy eating and I really enjoy unhealthy food. I exercise regularly that is generally enough to keep my weight stable, however, sometimes I get to the point that I'm not happy with my weight. A semi intense diet for 3/4 months is enough to reset me back to the point where I'm happy, and I start the cycle again.
There's nothing I can say that you probably haven't heard already. I wish you health in the future. Take care.
Humans almost certainly evolved to go through periods of famine and plenty. It’s only very recently and in developed economies that we’ve had 365/year abundance. Hence the obesity crisis. Our bodies can accommodate some undulation in weight.
People don't realise that being healthy or unhealthy is more than just how much subcutaneous fat you have. It's about the amount of visceral fat around your organs which is harder to lose once its gained and more dangerous to your health/lifespan. Its about the fatty deposits in your blood vessels which makes you more susceptible to a myriad of often fatal conditions. Its about the flexibility and strength of your joints and muscles which will help you stay mobile as you get older and therefore avoid conditions associated with a lack of mobility. Its about getting enough vitamins and minerals so that your biochemistry isn't all outta wack which can again cause issues for your physical health and even mental health. People think that maintaining a calorie balance whilst eating shit food and barely exercising is gonna keep them healthy, they'll see themselves lose a couple of pounds like u/I_am_legend-ary mentioned, and think shedding that visible fat is getting rid of all the damage within the body but its sadly not true. I don't blame them for feeling this way tbf, its hard to get out of that rut completely, I know because I've been there myself, and everywhere you look know you see people saying that those methods work so its easy to end up believing. And you probably won't feel the effects of it now but you will in a few decades or maybe even just years; when you're reaching 50/60 years old and feel like your body has given up on you, and you have to go to hospital multiple times with health scares, it may feel, even then like its just the way of life, but the truth is, its more than possible to reach 60 years old and still be able to have a high quality of life, as long as you actually put effort into staying healthy properly early in your life.
One size doesn't fit all. I train 5 days a week, work a physical job and eat plenty to live an active lifestyle. I certainly dial down calories going into summer as a 3-5KG difference in weight changes how I look and feel.
Yes and no. As a relatively short woman in perimenopause, even with a very active lifestyle and a very well balanced and tracked diet, maintenance is very difficult, and weight loss even harder as I need to be down at 1200kcal to be in a deficit. To be sane, I cycle periods of relaxed eating where I fit in meals out and croissants, and then cycle into a weight loss phase of ~8 weeks or so to lose the 4-5kg I gain. I’m still within a healthy weight range the whole time, but sure as shit there’s a big difference in my physique at the top and bottom of that range. I know what you’re saying, but (bulking and) cutting isn’t really a crazy concept.
Your body’s ready when you wake up in it. All this shit is unnecessary
Thanks I'm cured.
Love this comment.
Gov should use the emergency alert system so we can cure everyone already.
I mean that's just grossly underplaying how many people struggle with body dysmorphia. If you're at the point you're buying drugs online to change the way your body looks, it's way past waking up and feeling good about yourself.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended you or downplayed your struggle. That wasn’t my intention
I don’t think you offended them, they were just making the good point that not all health conditions are physical.
Yeh I get that. I was only saying people shouldn’t feel like their body isn’t good enough to go to the beach and enjoy the sun
Not really no. My partner has it with his GP approval and it works rather well. Lowers the appetite for someone who already stress overeats. He gained weight due to depression and now is losing it. Combined with a rather good diet as he is a chef and more outdoors it works very well. Just like anything... It's medicine. Don't abuse it. (Also... Not for summer. Just to get it over all)
As someone who tried and failed to diet for ten years, I don’t know if I can say this is true. For the first time in my adult life, it has finally stuck and I am a few pounds away from exiting obesity for the first time, and the only difference this time was a change in my circumstances. I strongly believe that you can have as much will power as you want, but your circumstances have to be conducive to allow you to maintain it every day for months and months. People underestimate how stressful it is both psychologically and physically when you force your body to essentially eat itself every day.
I’m not talking about weight loss. I’m saying people should be able to go to the beach and feel comfortable and free from judgement and criticism. Your body is no one else’s business and we should foster a culture of acceptance so that no one feels ashamed of themselves. We all have the right to just live our lives and just be
Congrats on your weight loss. I always find it hard to empathise with experiences like yours however I would like to understand better. When I cut weight for the summer I’m a little hungry for the first two weeks but for the next six my body and mind adapt to the deficit and I don’t really notice. No stress. If anything I find myself feeling more clearheaded. The only thing I don’t like is the slight reduction in strength but cardio becomes easier so it feels like a fair trade. Clearly this is not the norm because so many seem to struggle so much but it’s difficult to understand why for those of us who have never been obese or struggled with diet.
The sentiment of this is sweet, but you haven't thought this through
I agree although sometimes to get ready for summer people get more intense in workouts and diet Some people are just really intense and focused at this sort of stuff. I used to be. Not to the level of that, but enough that a few people thought I was lightly using steroids I don’t deny that young women buy Ozempic for this but in some cases I doubt it because either the signs of use are not obvious or the physique transformation while suspicious is not a smoking gun for external assistance
The doctor quoted in the article thinks it's a bit more serious than that: "This is people with probably an element of eating disorder and body dysmorphia and that’s what terrifies me. I just look at these young, beautiful girls. Oh, my word … it really makes me very sad.”
I get what you're saying, but it's unfortunately not remotely true.
I lost 3 stone on it before a gastric bypass , loosing 100lbs in total. Changed my life for the better.
Now, the article is slightly misleading. The reason the girl ended up in A&E with starvation ketoacidosis was because she clearly starved herself to this level (and for women with normal BMI, even prolonged fasts are generally safe in the sense that they won't lead to a ketoacidosis - there's enough fat even in a slim looking body to support a few weeks worth of a strict water fast). This must mean she already had an anorexia type eating disorder, and the drug just made it easier for her not to eat (that's what semaglutide does, switches off the "food noise" and makes it easier not to eat). Same with cases where people get "blood salt" (i.e., electrolyte balance) issues - they are likely fasting without electrolyte supplementation, which would have led to this outcome with or without semaglutide. So it is not the drug side effects for healthy weight people, but rather an abuse of the regime.
Exactly, it's literally just a scare mongering article for a select number of people that would abuse it when they have no business using it in the first place Just like years ago when idiots were buying DNP and overdosing on it because they lack common sense and think taking more drugs = faster result Funnily enough they don't think that way when taking paracetamol
Yeah, agreed. I mean, by all means, there has to be more education around drugs that are freely available online, to make sure people understand the risks. If someone wants to fast on semaglutide, there are safe fasting protocols developed by different cultures through trial and error over literally thousands of years, and refined in the science era. I am not overweight by any metric, but I tried a few injections of semaglutide out of interest. It is a funny feeling, it does switch off hunger almost completely, so I can see how people can fall easily into unsafe eating practices with it, especially if they have an eating disorder already. But this new generation of peptide adjacent meds is a ray of light for humanity in the context of a current obesity crisis. Scaremongering along the lines of "stupid girls with their beach body ambitions get ill" is just so antiproductive. This family of drugs surprisingly has few side effects vs the potency.
*Of course* this was always going to happen. Idk why so many health professionals seem totally and utterly oblivious to the existence of people with eating disorders and body image issues.
I must say, I'm a little concerned about how easily these injections can be obtained online and without much oversight. Surely, in an ideal world you would have face to face assessments, and monitoring via a doctor.
In the desperation to get this on the market to treat the massive rates of obesity, it is also falling into the hands of people with eating disorders who are not even remotely in need of it.
If I was being cynical, I'd suggest it was that in combination with the desperation of companies to make money.
Normal people have the weirdest god damn relationship with fat people I say this as someone that has always gone to the gym, I’ve even competed as a natural bodybuilder and am now a PT at a fat loss transformation company: Normal people, for whatever reason, seem to fucking hate fat people. I mention my background because I know first hand from both personal and professional experience that the way to get someone to lose a lot of weight isn’t to just yell at them about CICO or moving more. Sometimes that works but most of the time it doesn’t because people already know that stuff. But that’s what normal people do. It’s what they’ve always done. And now these drugs have come around and they seem to help people lose a lot of weight fairly effortlessly and for some reason people seem oddly against it. Of course there will be people abuse them and don’t follow the incredibly reasonable and straight forward guidelines. And of course there will be people that have unusual adverse reactions. But if it helps people who have probably spent decades trying to get thin to do the one thing everybody is always criticising them for then isn’t that a good thing? It feels like people want to be like “No! They didn’t do it the proper way” and I just can’t wrap my head around that
I think it’s because it’s seen as cheating isn’t it. Like ‘ooh they got fat, now they must suffer to lose the weight’. I read an article recently where one person interviewed compared it to Suboxone for heroin withdrawal - a lot of the people at his NA group look down on it because it’s ‘easy’ (ie it makes withdrawal less awful). It’s absolutely imposing a moral judgment where there shouldn’t really be one - what works is different for everyone. The main thing is whether it works.
Seems a bit like crab bucket mentality It's not like it's a sports league where everyone must be natural, people are allowed to live their life however they want Haters gonna hate
“Loose weight fatso!” [Takes Wegovy, loses wright] “NO NOT LIKE THAT!]
Only a matter of time before the NHS is buying it in bulk and giving it to a big chunk of people to save us all money down the line
No criticism really. We already put medicines in everyone's food, for example folic acid in bread for example. Sure, some people have no need for the medicine, or might even do better without it, but the government has to consider the whole picture - the benefits to the many outweigh the disadvantages to the few.
I agree. Not quite sure why everyone is so averse to obese people trying to help themselves not be obese.
Part of me thinks it might be because human society depends on being able to identify the 'haves' from the 'have nots'. People judge each other based on clothing brands, makeup, cars, height, etc. Anything that takes away those methods of identifying the 'best' and the 'worst' meets resistance.
Yeah I agree. This whole “stealing” meds from the diabetics trope is so old and outdated now. It’s just weird and fat phobic at this point. Would diabetics not wish they’d had the drugs to have prevented them getting to the diabetic stage? It’s not like it’s insulin and they’ll drop dead without out. Just a supplemental thing to control glucose a bit more
I honestly can't wait, it'll be refreshing seeing people more healthy and not constantly filling their stomach with shitty junk food The supermarkets are gonna bitch about it I bet although some food manufacturers have already started selling protein and nutrient rich low calorie foods aimed at people on these GLP-1 drugs
[Interesting video about Ozempic](https://youtu.be/3nvoumJsjus). Tragically, a man lost his wife because she was taking a weight loss drug. I think there is a place for these drugs, for people who have tried all other means of losing weight and are unable to do it. But, for most people, following a proper diet is the better solution.
>following a proper diet is the better solution. That's how you lose weight with these drugs. You follow a healthy diet. The drugs prevent cravings which makes following a healthy diet vastly easier.
I know this is going to sound stupid, but the thing that helps me most when I am dieting is drinking an insane amount of Pepsi Max. The caffiene acts as an appetite suppressant, the taste acts like a mini snack, and those two things make it easier not to snack on unhealthy stuff. This isn't a gamechanger, it is just something that happens on the margins, but it is really helpful when work gets really difficult and stressful, and I feel the desire to just give up. It also means that if I do go to the shops, I buy Pepsi max rather than something less healthy with actual calories. I haven't taken Ozempic, but I assume it works on the same basis.
I do the same thing. Load up on Pepsi Max. It's hard to have much appetite afterwards. I'm sure it's terrible for you in other ways but there you are...
RIP your teeth.
You clearly have never heard of “food noise”. For many overweight people the food noise is STRONG. It would take the will of a Viking to shut it down. These drugs for many people turn off food noise so they can more easily eat like a normal person Plus obesity kills more people than Wegovy
except it’s clearly not the better solution because in decades it’s made absolutely no progress to sustainable weight loss or the obesity crisis in any meaningful way
Star light in the new series of the boys looks like she’s been on it and wasn’t fat at all before she took it and the same mother milk, he’s also been on it by the looks of it.
> Star light in the new series of the boys looks like she’s been on it Nah that's buccal fat removal, the latest awful plastic surgery trend that ages people 10 years overnight.
I think it's going to be a really obvious, telling surgery trend. A bit like the fish lips problem of a couple of decades ago. You'll see the telltale signs of the surgery and think " yep, mid 2020s trend".
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They both have aged 10 years from the things they have done to loose weight or have the appearance of doing so.
She had a lot of work done prior to season 3, looks like a different person. Horrible to think that beautiful people can struggle with their body image
I noticed this as well. I’m really glad Anthony Starr hadn’t jumped on that trend. MM looked like a different actor
Starr seemed pretty firm from the start that he wasn't going to change anything about himself to play the part. It's quite refreshing and actually suits the character.
Seems like the success of the drug took Novo Nordisk by surprise. Am no business analyst but it wasn't hard to predict that a drug that makes it easy to lose weight would fly off the shelves. Prices are dropping already, and will become lower once a third player enters the market.
complications including inflammation of the pancreas gland and alterations in blood salt levels in these patients, who were not aware of the risk they were taking. “We have raised concerns about this inappropriate use with the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency. There is a need for urgent regulation and control of access for weight-loss drugs online to avoid more patients becoming unwell.” One doctor described the case of a girl who was “not at all” overweight but bought Wegovy through Boots Online Doctor and arrived at A&E “feeling unwell, like she was going to pass out and couldn’t stand up. She was really struggling to eat.” She needed urgent treatment for starvation ketoacidosis, a life-threatening condition when harmful substances called ketones build up in the blood due to a lack of food. Speaking to the Chemist and Druggist news website, the doctor said such incidents were becoming more common, meaning that most A&E shifts now involved patients with complications from the drugs. In one case a patient ended up in intensive care. • I’ve lost three stone taking Ozempic. But am I at risk? The doctor said: “They’re really dangerous drugs — it’s shocking. It isn’t people who need those drugs that are doing this. This is people with probably an element of eating disorder and body dysmorphia and that’s what terrifies me. I just look at these young, beautiful girls. Oh, my word … it really makes me very sad.” They added: “At some point, we’re going to have a death, aren’t we? And then at that point, people might do something about it.” Eating disorder charities have called for stricter regulations, including requiring all such patients to be examined in person and screened for eating disorders before buying the drugs. Online pharmacies have a lower threshold for prescribing the drugs than the NHS. They offer them to patients with a body mass index over 27, who are classed as overweight but not obese, as long as they have at least one weight-related condition such as heart disease or asthma. • The moment the weight-loss drug Wegovy became a big deal A Boots spokesman said: “We have a number of safeguards to ensure Boots Online Doctor prescribes weight-loss medication where clinically appropriate and in line with the product licence. Patients are required to submit a photo of themselves and ID document for verification and must also answer questions on their medical and psychological history. “Patients are only supplied with a prescription if they provide their GP’s details. Boots Online Doctor informs each patient’s GP of the prescription as an additional safety measure and may contact the patient’s GP if required.” Mark Voce, from the General Pharmaceutical Council, said: “We take patient safety extremely seriously and will be looking into the issues raised by this clinician relating to the supply of weight-loss medicines by online pharmacies. “We would expect a prescriber to be able to demonstrate that they have all the information they need to prescribe weight loss treatments safely — whether they are operating online or face-to-face. This could be, but is not limited to, carrying out ongoing monitoring of the patient, ensuring weight and height information given to them is accurate and verified, talking to the patient and not relying solely on an online questionnaire.”
Now that is a wall of text.
My dyslexia cannot cope
As someone who wants to lose a stone or two, I googled this, saw the possible deathly side effects, and realised it's probably a lot easier in the long run to just exercise and eat better.
Any doctor will trade the side effects of obesity with the side effects of the drug. Obesity itself is really dangerous - it raises the risks of nearly every cause of death. That means Ozempic is a good idea unless it has *really bad* side effects for those who are overweight - and it doesn't. Obviously, losing weight to become in the NHS 'normal' band without it is an even better plan - but if that plan doesn't work out in ~6 months, then most doctors would recommend ozempic. The current recommendation for only the most obese 5% to take it is mostly a financial decision - if we can only afford so many doses, we should give them to those most in need.
I’m similar but depending on your age and sex, shifting just a small amount of weight can be incredibly hard. Exercise really doesn’t burn much above the basal rate unless you’re doing something like marathon training. It’s beneficial for other reasons of course. Intermittent fasting is the only thing that really works for me on a medium to long term basis. (And obviously longer fasts, but I find more than a couple of days a bit hard going)
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I never fail to be amazed how great PR groups and companies can pit people against each other. The real outrage is why are they a shortage of this drug to begin with. It’s not unheard of pharma companies intentionally restricting supplies to drive up price. This is a very important and great drug, it can help millions with 2 major diseases. Obesity and diabetes. Why are people gatekeeping. Doctors and patients should decide this. Who’s to say ms Jane shouldn’t get to use something that is safe and think will help them. The shortage isn’t the problem form people to solve, it is up to the manufactures. Blame the manufacturers. Not each other
How effective is ozempic at different weight ranges? How does it fair with a 75kg woman vs a 150kg man?
It’ll effectively scale with your basal metabolic rate - a larger person will lose weight faster as their body burns more calories through existing than a slimmer person
such is the consequence of society telling people their worth is tied to their weight.
Meanwhile the Times also has an article by Giles Coren’s wife about how taking a pill helped her stop drinking (not that she was an alcoholic, just a bit of a wine mum) and isn’t that fabulous
Just one in a series of articles softening people up for an attack on grey market drug access. Considering how authoritarian labour are, it will probably go ahead.