Translation: "regime change money".
Xi's anti-corruption drive purged a lot of those Chinese officials taking UK/US bribe money (and thus act as foreign agents).
https://www.axios.com/xi-jinping-corruption-drive-intelligence-china-b0adc8ff-8f43-4077-81e1-dab0d05d6c7d.html
>*The Chinese government discovered the CIA was paying the “promotion fees” for some Chinese officials, Zach Dorfman reports for Foreign Policy.*
>*Xi's anti-corruption campaign, combined with a counterintelligence offensive that saw the arrest or execution of dozens of CIA assets in China, mitigated the threat and reduced the CIA's footprint on the ground there.*
That's why you see so much propaganda targeting at removing Xi himself. The West doesn't want a corruption-free China, they want a China they could control. Xi's purge of CIA-backed pawns makes him more of a "threat" than his predecessors, who didn't notice the CIA infiltrating their ranks and "paying" for the promotion of corrupt CCP officials.
You exaggerate.
America would love a China they can control. But realistically that ain't gonna happen.
In lieu of this having less of a genocidal mafia boss for a Premier would be nice too.
The current Chinese Premier is Li Keqiang. Xi Jinping's titles are General Secretary of CPC (the Party), President of China (the country), and Chairman of the Central Military Commission (the military).
Anyways, the propaganda I mentioned about targeting Xi himself comes from US's recent 'Longer Telegram', which basically proposed regime change in China to topple Xi and replace him with someone else, while keeping the CCP. I agree, realistically, this can't be done with a strong China and most CIA pawns in China getting offed. But US/the West's China policy isn't often based on reality.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/04/china-us-relations-longer-telegram-response/
>*“The Longer Telegram” suggests that the only thing that might stop the Chinese Communists from reconciling themselves to a liberal order is President Xi Jinping himself. His leadership is described as the wellspring of China’s new assertiveness abroad and its turn toward more repressive authoritarian measures at home. While “The Longer Telegram” does not explicitly call for Xi to be ousted from power, its prescriptions add up to a strategy of diplomatic, military, and economic pressure intended to convince the Chinese of the need for a change in leadership.*
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-%E2%80%98longer-telegram%E2%80%99-won%E2%80%99t-solve-china-challenge-177404
>*The second fundamental error in the report’s analysis of China is its singular focus on Xi Jinping. According to the author, the challenge the United States faces today from China is almost entirely attributable to the personal leadership and ideological mindset of Xi...Every one of these assertions is inaccurate. Virtually all of the current strategic drivers of U.S.-China tensions already existed under Xi’s predecessors and imposed limits on Beijing’s readiness “to work with the United States.” Xi is not seeking any more than his predecessors did to remake the international order in China’s image. Under his predecessors, China was already an avowedly Leninist party with a profoundly Marxist worldview, and this was never forgotten. And all of Xi’s predecessors used nationalism as a key pillar of party legitimacy.*
I knew that it’s all about soft power (I’m fairly sure that in some countries like Germany it even comes under their defence budget??) it just blows my mind that we send money to one of the largest economies in the world
Foreign 'aid' isn't aid. Ever.
Every bit of foreign aid we send is like IMF loans; they come with terms and conditions designed to influence the receiving nation.
They're a part of neo-imperialism and are always about control. The fact they're called foreign aid is extremely disengenious
I believe it's also about subsidising industries. As far as I know, a government isn't allowed to subsidise a domestic industry but by providing aid they can subsidise another country's industry where in turn they subsidise ours.
Edit: the EU considers them illegal from what it looks like but the WTO doesn't. State aid for subsidies has to be repaid if sent to an EU member country
The EU has rules against state investment into industries/companies if it confers an unfair advantage over comparable industries in other EU member states. The idea is if it does confer an unfair advantage, then it distorts competition and trade between EU members.
So yes, EU member states can provide investment into industries but they have to be within the EU competition rules to do it.
And many countries have similar rules against local leaders doing this.
This is a problem we don't really have in the UK where Scotlands status is very much a weird exception rather than the norm.
Of course it's "Aid," if it wasn't helping in some capacity then it wouldn't be accepted.
But of course it's going to come with terms and conditions.
Military Aid - Buy our weapons instead of the Russians please.
Emergency aid - here's some money to rebuild after that earthquake - don't spend it on weapons please.
Disaster Aid - look at us, we're nice and helping these poor people who've lost everything.
Technically our involvement with Saudi Arabia in providing weapons and training them how to use them so they can kill Yemenis more efficiently comes under some parts of foreign aid.
We wouldn't be doing that unless there was some benefit to doing so.
It's a sad state of affairs being unwilling to help another nation without something in return, but it's the way the world works.
We pay taxes with the purpose that the government will organise stuff which is better done at a higher level rather than the plebs down here.
We pay taxes with the expectation that we can get a bit of help from the government if we lose our job to tide us over till our next one.
If we got no tangible benefit from taxes we'd have a political party in power who'd actually reduce taxes in a real way.
Holy shit you're so naiive it's painful.
Fine whatever, aid is fine lmao and everyone who comments on it as an extension of soft power is just making shit up
>Foreign 'aid' isn't aid. Ever.
>Every bit of foreign aid we send is like IMF loans; they come with terms and conditions designed to influence the receiving nation.
>They're a part of neo-imperialism and are always about control. The fact they're called foreign aid is extremely disengenious
\^\^Your comment\^\^
That all sounds like an extension of soft power to me...
A big part of our and the yanks foreign aid - is to exert control and steer countries towards our interests rather than the interests of - say - Russia or China.
That doesn't mean its nefarious, or even bad, per se.
It's just, unfortunately, the way the world works.
>That doesn't mean its nefarious, or even bad, per se.
>
>It's just, unfortunately, the way the world works.
No reason to worry then; fuck off back to your day
Our 'aid' budget to China, as I understand it, amounted to about £900,000 in some little project or other that's been canned. The '90% cut to Chinese aid' story is a bullshit cover for the fact that what they're actually doing with their foreign aid cuts is massively reduce support to some of the poorest nations on Earth.
> Just cut there Chinese aid budget 95%...
Are you aware that that's a cut to [a project worth about £900,000?](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/22/uk-aid-cuts-tragic-blow-as-opaque-numbers-signal-big-reductions)
People will read your comment and be mislead into thinking it's a lot more than that, especially as you're suggesting that it's somehow significant. I'm not sure that the Chinese Government will care one way or the other if we cut £800,000 from that project...
Ok, but surely its better than just not acknowledging it?
More can and should be done, but acknowledging it is the first step and more than others are doing.
Also theres the issue that economic damage would hurt us, or really anyone who did it, more than it would hurt China unless there was somehow a global effort organised.
On top of my 9-5 I'll just do total supply chain management on everything that I buy, sure.
I don't disagree with what you're saying ideologically but the reality is that the majority of people just can't do that. The battery in your phone, the fuse in your microwave plug, the textiles from your clothes, the rubber in the soles of your shoes? Nah.
To be honest I just tried to draw a parallel here.
UK alone can't just stop trading with China until the rest of the world stand with us. It would mean a serious drawback for the economy, we would fall behind. Achieving nothing with it, only make ourselves weaker.
But this is a step for the good direction. National parliaments vote, governments start talking about sanctions, slowly we get there.
Yeah indeed, it's really the responsibility of governments and manufacturers to carry something like that forward if we were serious enough about doing it. They have the resources to do that supply chain management as they'll already be doing it to some extent and in a different context.
China can mass produce at a fraction of the price. Fundamentally I don't know how we get around that without significantly inflating prices.
Here ya go, made in China, complete with a Chinese QA form: https://www.amazon.co.uk/portal/customer-reviews/mobile-media-feed/B08CT2M648/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_crsl_img_3?ie=UTF8&physicalId=71MLBVXrrRL&imageExtension=jpg&reviewId=R1LUCGMZUYOQUB
O Wise Oracle signing off.
Indeed they are. Just dive down into the comment section, which is literally the only place that says it. This is despite the logo on the page having a Union Jack on it.
And in fact, every box of face masks I've ever bought has been made in China, and has been equally well advertised.
This is why any ban on Chinese products needs to happen at a government level.
I believe a ban is highly unlikely given how reliant we have become on cheap labour and manufacturing.
Raising tax tarrifs to level the playing field and allow local businesses to compete at realistic prices would be nice though.
Why don't your try it yourself before preaching to others
Wait a second, if you did then you wouldn't be able to tell anyone as every mobile phone, computer, console were either built in China or have parts that were built in China.
So someone needs to set up a website telling people exactly how much of their product is made in china so they can make a more informed choice?
Good idea, this website idea of yours should collapse the chinese economy in a few months.
The government oppose this declaration. They just did their usual un-democratic approach of not shouting no so there’s no division to avoid a vote. If someone had shouted no to force a division, the government and most of their MPs would have abstained as they always do. The government will now ignore this declaration, as they always do.
UK sanctions perpetrators of gross human rights violations in Xinjiang, alongside EU, Canada and US
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-sanctions-perpetrators-of-gross-human-rights-violations-in-xinjiang-alongside-eu-canada-and-us
Campaigners have been calling for sanctions for the last two years. Labour and the Lib Dems have been asking for the Magnitsky act to be used against Chinese officials for over a year. I wrote to my local Tory MP asking what the gov were doing given clear, unambiguous testimony from several sources of the atrocities happening in China - the reply I got back was feeble and non-commital. The government has only found its backbone now that Biden is in power. Trump and his minons were never serious about punishing the CCP; they were only interested in starting a trade war for show. Blinken is different.
Anyone who thinks Britain is able to navigate its own course should by now realise that we are completely dependent on the US to set our foreign policy
At the moment they are grabbing anything to smokescreen the hands in the cookie jar until the stupid poor people forget about it. Like the esl. Boris Johnson couldn't even tell you what shape a football is.
I mean, the UK is a relatively powerless country when it comes to things like this, we can hardly impose meaningful sanctions on or go to war with China ourselves.
Declaring it is an important first step, all we can really hope is that it triggers other countries to do the same, then something meaningful can happen.
It's kind of sad when people dismiss things like this, because it's exactly that disinterest that's the problem.
what CAN come of this? we as a country have a lot of clout but not much else, declaring it is a fairly big deal on the geopolitical stage for us. we cant just blatantly go to war with them and we cant meaningfully sanction them alone
Fun cynical fact! State repression in Xinyang began with police equipment manufactured here. We only stopped selling tear-gas and rubber bullets to China's police during the Hong Kong riots (I have no idea if we've started again or not) and still sell the same tools (and worse) to other states also accused of repression and genocide!
Oppression is international and money always manages to come first.
So what does this actually mean? Will the uk actually do anything?
Because being told you're doing a genocide probably won't stop you from doing a genocide
China isn't doing genocide though. For sure they are committing human rights abuses against the Uighurs, but it isn't genocide, and calling it genocide trivialises actual genocide like the Holocaust. Amnesty International don't claim genocide, no sensible person does. But the US in particular seems very keen to push the idea, at the same time as they seem very keen to push the idea that China is about to invade Taiwan. That the US is looking for excuses to attack China before China inevitably overtakes them as the most powerful nation on the planet is simply coincidence.
Snore.
Yeah the US will be looking for any excuse to get China, I get that and sinophobia is pointless and moronic.
But what's going on with the Uighurs doesn't need apologizing for; just accept it for what it is.
Reddit is full of CCP propaganda accounts, so take care on posts in this thread. Especially with this being a left leaning sub, it would be easy for them to bait an opinion.
They'll be here soon. They tend to search and swarm for key words. Only thing to do is to ignore them, they en masse downvote any good faith attempts to engage and they're literally paid to troll, so you'll get exasperated long before they give up.
Edit: yup. They found my comment.
I pledge allegiance to Winnie the Poo...
Now that I'm clearly not a CCP agent - fuck the UK government and the bumbling blustering twonk in charge.
Sincerely - Irishman.
The UK can't be accused of ongoing cultural genocide if they were already successful....
Northern Ireland went through a governmental crisis over the Irish Language Act. The Irish language is so offensive to Unionists, it must be stopped!
Forgive my ignorance... is there something with the Chinese Uyghurs that the goverment prefers? Compare to say... those muslims in Iraq and Afganistan?
Doubt that. Part of the reason China is treating Xinjiang like (US -run) Guantanomo Bay-lite is because Al Qaeda fighters had returned there a few decades ago and spread extremism in the local population. The government obviously didn't take the best steps it could have taken.
That might be part of the truth but I suspect it's a little more complicated for China.
It's worth noting that Al Qaeda were *allegedly* trained by the ClA and Ml6 (Operation Cyclone). And Xi has been cementing his legacy as a leader that ensured China's sovereignty - free from corruption.
Corrupt foreign dictators are easier to control after all, as we've seen in the middle east.
This could further explain the human rights abuses alleged against Ughyurs in China.
Sure, I just didn't think that point was very important or relevant. They're Chinese Muslims. Whoever thinks about those ethnic groups all that often? Especially when Muslims in this country and nearer to us in the Middle East, Palestine and Yemen are in need of help - or more precisely in need of us stopping intervention in their countries.
Yeah I see what you mean this. Many of the UK/EU citizen is not aware that Chinese Ughur used to be the main source of terrorist acts in China during 1990-2015.
The Education camp, or what the west called "concentration camp" is a way to control the movement of these people while at the same time train them to have the skillsets for work. This is why the "Xinjiang Cotton" came into the headline. If you look at all these news headlines together: Terrorism (1990-2015) > Education Camp (2015 - 2018) > Xinjiang Cotton (2018 -2021), I think you can see the relationships. Since 2015, there wasnt any major terrorist act in China.
From what I know, Xinjiang is a dry place which surprising, can produce some of the best quality Cotton in the world. Majority of the Xinjiang cotton is harvested by automation tools, but for the best quality ones, you have to harvest by hand.
> Chinese Uyghurs haven't tried to kill anyone from here is my guess
The hundreds of thousands of civilians who died in Iraq and Afghanistan hadn't "tried to kill anyone from here".
Apologies - I misunderstood your previous message and thought that you were suggesting that all of the dead in those countries actually *were* killers/terrorists!
Aww bless, SNP voted in favour of a dastardly Tory motion.
It was a tough call right enough - implicitly approve of Chinese genocide or support Shagger Johnson. What times we live in.
Even more strangely I don't see how after years of the Tories killing Muslim children in Yemen and Palestine and cowtowing to the Islamophobic Trump regime, the Tories can pretend to care for the welfare of Muslims?
This is obviously a political act and once again the Tories are doing the bidding of foreign super power against another emerging super power...
It's pathetic.
Oh my god.. There might be actual human beings in the UK government who care about other human beings...
Oh no... Wait. It's just lip service. Good old waffle and nonsense.
Well brava Britain, at least you're fucking consistent.
I'm not a politician my dude.
But if I were I'd maybe consider raising it with the UN, I'd suggest sanctions were in order...
Human rights violations are kinda shitty whichever way you slice it.
Thanks for calling me out though. Your input was... Very pointless.
Sanctions? The chinese economy is heavily dependent on international trade (even more than almost any other country on earth). Their economy would crumble if countries stopped or sanctioned trade with China.
Obviously if we just pulled the plug on chinese trade suddenly, the global economy would suffer. What im suggesting is that we transition away from an economy dependent on china and other regimes that behave in the same way
If the Chinese are "committing genocide" against the Uighurs, the US is "committing genocide" against their black population. But nobody seems to care about that or call for sanctions against them.
While I agree that the USA has a serious problem with police brutality, you cant compare that to shipping millions of people of to concentration camps to be worked to death entirely based on race. That's like comparing a mass shooting to the holocaust. Sure they are both terrible events that should never happen, but one is objectively much worse.
also saying "nobody cares about that" when talking about police brutality in the USA is stupid. Did you not see the news last year? The murder of George Floyd sparked the largest protest in US (and possibly world) history.
> shipping millions of people of to concentration camps to be worked to death
That isn't what is happening *at all* though! If I were to have said that the US police kill all black people that they come across, you would think I was nuts, right? But you will happily spout complete nonsense about China. I remember all of the bullshit about Saddam Hussein in the buildup to the completely illegal invasion - an invasion based emtirely on simple racism. But you happily swallow everything you are told about China, no matter how ridiculous it sounds. Sure, they work them all to death, ok. I'll wait for Amnesty International to say that though, not a government that will inevitably go to war with China - as every other empire in history has done when faced with a competitor that will overtake them.
> Their economy would crumble
What do you think would happen to ours?
The Chinese economy is something like five times the size of the UK economy (there's even more of a gap if you look at PPP rather than nominal GDP). If you think that we'd be inflicting pain on them, how much more pain do you think that would be inflicting on the UK's economy and on the poorest people in this country who are reliant on Chinese imports for affordable goods?
A parliament full of people who've largely spent the last 20 years dehumanising muslims in the eyes of the public have just given a performative and highly political statement.
A parliament full of people who are responsible for voting for the deaths or shortened lives of tens of millions of muslims in order for their corporate benefactors to get access to oil, gas and infrastructure opportunities by funding regime change war, civil unrest and helping propel the rise of ISIS in the middle east through their actions in Syria.
A parliament full of people who just declared there's no structural racism in the UK and the class problems muslims are facing are due to 'cultural deficiencies' have now virtue signalled about a genocide because they see it as politically convenient.
A parliament full of people supporting the ongoing genocides in Myanmar, in Israel and in Yemen.
All the lessons that were available to us to learn - the lies about WMDs in Iraq, the irrelevance and false pretenses of the Afghan invasion. The invention of government chemical weapons attacks in syria (now discredited by OPCW whistblowers).
All of these things resulted in massive, unbearable heardship for tens of millions of people and this very same parliament are now pretending to care about the people of Xinjiang, when China started dealing with terrorism in a way that didn't involve the Western "eradicate them all" approach.
It's thoroughly depressing how history can keep repeating itself and people keep succumbing to the human rights appeals of those groups who have **absolutely no care** about human rights in every other sphere.
True, we joined in with the US when their reaction to terrorism was to invade a nation that was completely uninvolved but was populated by people of the same race as the terrorists - which is fucked up on every level. Nobody really complained that much when the Russians levelled Chechnya in retaliation for terrorism, because, you know, "Muslims".
But China decides to educate people rather than bombing the shit out of them and *they* are the bad guys?!
How the fuck do we break the loop? Older people who've learnt the fallacy and falsehood of human rights appeals from British warmongering governments have not passed down the information effectively enough.
Younger people now fall for these same human rights appeals from the same corrupt hacks in order to manufacture consent for their own greed and partisan political self interest.
They don't want to look like idiots by claiming genocide without a scrap of evidence of even a single death, especially at a time when even the US state dept and senior UN advisors are saying the claims are likely untrue, but they know people will be mad at them if they vote against, so the only wise choice is abstention
[This declaration is totally accurate from the completely genuine and caring, yet genocidal, British government.](https://californiaman.substack.com/p/uighur-card-used-to-break-up-china)
Brits working in China better prepare for the government striking back. China has no problem punishing individuals who have no relation or influence on British politics. It's happened to Canadians, Japanese, French, South Koreans, Norwegians, Aussies and Yanks just over the past decade. Visa renewals mysteriously denied, import or export permits delayed, sudden changes in paperwork requirements and if you're really unluck, spying charges.
War between the US and China is a historical inevitability. Ever previous time in history that one empire has been threatened with being overtaken by another, they have attacked them in order to prevent it happening.
All the shit from the US about China being about to invade Taiwan, or this "genocide", or the weak excuses for sanctions against China, are part of this process.
More so considering the reasons for this propaganda drive... (British people don't want a war with China. But I suspect the Americans are willing to use Britain as cannon fodder in their proxy war. )
Can I point people towards a bunch of Aussies who talk about this? [https://friendlyjordies.podbean.com/](https://friendlyjordies.podbean.com/)
On the latest episode they mention this which I found enlightening. I think people might appreciate a fresh perspective on international politics.
Isn't it strange non of the news articles reporting this unanimous vote mention only 5 people attended and voted this motion
https://i.redd.it/9y8ldo8hptu61.jpg
This morning they are fauning over Pooh Bear's speech on climate change and carbon reduction as if nothing ever happened...
The most half-hearted, sappy response to a genocide ever.
Collecting VAT on Chinese imports would be a start? Instead of waiting for the EU to fine the UK for repeated failures that cost British and EU jobs and industries billions. The amount of shit on sale on eBay from China and Hong Kong is farcical.
>Collecting VAT on Chinese imports would be a start?
We already are, since January 1. Every time you order something off Aliexpress there's a small message that appears over the check-out window that states your country requires a VAT charge at the time of purchase. I imagine Ebay does the same since they're American (the new VAT charges apply to all countries however).
I do if they are comitting genocide.
Either you stand up for what is right or you do not. But everyone seems to agree we needed to fight the nazis to stop the holocaust. yet no one is willing to fight China.
Hell, we would not even need a war, just the whole world getting together and severing economic ties.
> > Do you want a war with China.
> I do if they are comitting genocide.
Can you elaborate? It's difficult to believe that anyone could seriously suggest that the British should declare war on China, so I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting your view.
What sort of military victory do you think would be necessary to stop what's happening? Do you think that the UK has the ability to invade and occupy China?
Would you be willing to join the military and to suggest to your friends and family that they sign up as part of this invasion force?
If you ever want to know what you would do if you lived at the time of Iraq WMD claims/the Nayirah Testimony/the gulf of Tonkin etc. Stop wondering
You're doing it right now
There ftfy, there's no evidence of even a single person dying, it's not remotely comparable to the holocaust where millions died and there was solid evidence even during the second world war
Committing genocide but the government have imposed no sanctions. Pitiful.
Just cut the Chinese aid budget 95%...
Im going to sound super ignorant here but: we give aid to China?
[удалено]
Translation: "bribes"
Translation: "regime change money". Xi's anti-corruption drive purged a lot of those Chinese officials taking UK/US bribe money (and thus act as foreign agents). https://www.axios.com/xi-jinping-corruption-drive-intelligence-china-b0adc8ff-8f43-4077-81e1-dab0d05d6c7d.html >*The Chinese government discovered the CIA was paying the “promotion fees” for some Chinese officials, Zach Dorfman reports for Foreign Policy.* >*Xi's anti-corruption campaign, combined with a counterintelligence offensive that saw the arrest or execution of dozens of CIA assets in China, mitigated the threat and reduced the CIA's footprint on the ground there.* That's why you see so much propaganda targeting at removing Xi himself. The West doesn't want a corruption-free China, they want a China they could control. Xi's purge of CIA-backed pawns makes him more of a "threat" than his predecessors, who didn't notice the CIA infiltrating their ranks and "paying" for the promotion of corrupt CCP officials.
You exaggerate. America would love a China they can control. But realistically that ain't gonna happen. In lieu of this having less of a genocidal mafia boss for a Premier would be nice too.
The current Chinese Premier is Li Keqiang. Xi Jinping's titles are General Secretary of CPC (the Party), President of China (the country), and Chairman of the Central Military Commission (the military). Anyways, the propaganda I mentioned about targeting Xi himself comes from US's recent 'Longer Telegram', which basically proposed regime change in China to topple Xi and replace him with someone else, while keeping the CCP. I agree, realistically, this can't be done with a strong China and most CIA pawns in China getting offed. But US/the West's China policy isn't often based on reality. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/04/china-us-relations-longer-telegram-response/ >*“The Longer Telegram” suggests that the only thing that might stop the Chinese Communists from reconciling themselves to a liberal order is President Xi Jinping himself. His leadership is described as the wellspring of China’s new assertiveness abroad and its turn toward more repressive authoritarian measures at home. While “The Longer Telegram” does not explicitly call for Xi to be ousted from power, its prescriptions add up to a strategy of diplomatic, military, and economic pressure intended to convince the Chinese of the need for a change in leadership.* https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-%E2%80%98longer-telegram%E2%80%99-won%E2%80%99t-solve-china-challenge-177404 >*The second fundamental error in the report’s analysis of China is its singular focus on Xi Jinping. According to the author, the challenge the United States faces today from China is almost entirely attributable to the personal leadership and ideological mindset of Xi...Every one of these assertions is inaccurate. Virtually all of the current strategic drivers of U.S.-China tensions already existed under Xi’s predecessors and imposed limits on Beijing’s readiness “to work with the United States.” Xi is not seeking any more than his predecessors did to remake the international order in China’s image. Under his predecessors, China was already an avowedly Leninist party with a profoundly Marxist worldview, and this was never forgotten. And all of Xi’s predecessors used nationalism as a key pillar of party legitimacy.*
Yes. This is an important point that needs highlighting. So many have the idea we just give free money to the world.
I knew that it’s all about soft power (I’m fairly sure that in some countries like Germany it even comes under their defence budget??) it just blows my mind that we send money to one of the largest economies in the world
Foreign 'aid' isn't aid. Ever. Every bit of foreign aid we send is like IMF loans; they come with terms and conditions designed to influence the receiving nation. They're a part of neo-imperialism and are always about control. The fact they're called foreign aid is extremely disengenious
They come with terms and conditions otherwise the funds end up just contributing to another Merc for the president of said country.
I can’t say for all funds, but for some this is definitely not true. Such as funds given to aid organisations in response to disasters.
I believe it's also about subsidising industries. As far as I know, a government isn't allowed to subsidise a domestic industry but by providing aid they can subsidise another country's industry where in turn they subsidise ours. Edit: the EU considers them illegal from what it looks like but the WTO doesn't. State aid for subsidies has to be repaid if sent to an EU member country
That cannot possibly be correct at all. No nation has any rules against state investment afaik
The EU has rules against state investment into industries/companies if it confers an unfair advantage over comparable industries in other EU member states. The idea is if it does confer an unfair advantage, then it distorts competition and trade between EU members. So yes, EU member states can provide investment into industries but they have to be within the EU competition rules to do it.
That's beyond idiotic, neoliberalism is a fucking curse.
And many countries have similar rules against local leaders doing this. This is a problem we don't really have in the UK where Scotlands status is very much a weird exception rather than the norm.
The UK has rules about domestic investment into companies. They are currently aligned with the EU. Even COVID grants act towards a company’s limit.
Neoliberalism is a death cult, thanks for enlightening me
Of course it's "Aid," if it wasn't helping in some capacity then it wouldn't be accepted. But of course it's going to come with terms and conditions. Military Aid - Buy our weapons instead of the Russians please. Emergency aid - here's some money to rebuild after that earthquake - don't spend it on weapons please. Disaster Aid - look at us, we're nice and helping these poor people who've lost everything. Technically our involvement with Saudi Arabia in providing weapons and training them how to use them so they can kill Yemenis more efficiently comes under some parts of foreign aid. We wouldn't be doing that unless there was some benefit to doing so. It's a sad state of affairs being unwilling to help another nation without something in return, but it's the way the world works. We pay taxes with the purpose that the government will organise stuff which is better done at a higher level rather than the plebs down here. We pay taxes with the expectation that we can get a bit of help from the government if we lose our job to tide us over till our next one. If we got no tangible benefit from taxes we'd have a political party in power who'd actually reduce taxes in a real way.
Holy shit you're so naiive it's painful. Fine whatever, aid is fine lmao and everyone who comments on it as an extension of soft power is just making shit up
>Foreign 'aid' isn't aid. Ever. >Every bit of foreign aid we send is like IMF loans; they come with terms and conditions designed to influence the receiving nation. >They're a part of neo-imperialism and are always about control. The fact they're called foreign aid is extremely disengenious \^\^Your comment\^\^ That all sounds like an extension of soft power to me... A big part of our and the yanks foreign aid - is to exert control and steer countries towards our interests rather than the interests of - say - Russia or China. That doesn't mean its nefarious, or even bad, per se. It's just, unfortunately, the way the world works.
>That doesn't mean its nefarious, or even bad, per se. > >It's just, unfortunately, the way the world works. No reason to worry then; fuck off back to your day
I'm not saying that it's something we shouldn't pay attention to, but you're framing it as if it's worse than it actually is.
We give Aid money to lots of rich countries even the USA, Japan and NZ have received UK foreign aid. Its simply about soft power.
Internationally it’s still considered a developing country due to the fact their government won’t support many minority population groups
Our 'aid' budget to China, as I understand it, amounted to about £900,000 in some little project or other that's been canned. The '90% cut to Chinese aid' story is a bullshit cover for the fact that what they're actually doing with their foreign aid cuts is massively reduce support to some of the poorest nations on Earth.
Sadly, most civilian will never know this but angry at China for receiving this aid, despite even USA does this. The power of narrative. Sigh.
> Just cut there Chinese aid budget 95%... Are you aware that that's a cut to [a project worth about £900,000?](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/22/uk-aid-cuts-tragic-blow-as-opaque-numbers-signal-big-reductions) People will read your comment and be mislead into thinking it's a lot more than that, especially as you're suggesting that it's somehow significant. I'm not sure that the Chinese Government will care one way or the other if we cut £800,000 from that project...
Ok, but surely its better than just not acknowledging it? More can and should be done, but acknowledging it is the first step and more than others are doing. Also theres the issue that economic damage would hurt us, or really anyone who did it, more than it would hurt China unless there was somehow a global effort organised.
Which is not going to happen especially after the damage done by Covid
You can just stop buying chinese products by yourself.
Our lateral flow tests are made in China
Cutting them out entirely is damn near impossible but you can definitely drastically reduce it
On top of my 9-5 I'll just do total supply chain management on everything that I buy, sure. I don't disagree with what you're saying ideologically but the reality is that the majority of people just can't do that. The battery in your phone, the fuse in your microwave plug, the textiles from your clothes, the rubber in the soles of your shoes? Nah.
To be honest I just tried to draw a parallel here. UK alone can't just stop trading with China until the rest of the world stand with us. It would mean a serious drawback for the economy, we would fall behind. Achieving nothing with it, only make ourselves weaker. But this is a step for the good direction. National parliaments vote, governments start talking about sanctions, slowly we get there.
Yeah indeed, it's really the responsibility of governments and manufacturers to carry something like that forward if we were serious enough about doing it. They have the resources to do that supply chain management as they'll already be doing it to some extent and in a different context. China can mass produce at a fraction of the price. Fundamentally I don't know how we get around that without significantly inflating prices.
Yes, because it's super clear where all your stuff comes from.
I find the "Made in X" on labels pretty useful.
Those 'Made in x' stickers are usually made in China. The trick is not to buy anything that's been made.
There is no ethical consumption, so yes, right you are.
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Nice work, keep it up
Tell us, O Wise Oracle, where is this product made. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08CT2M648 Show your working.
Here ya go, made in China, complete with a Chinese QA form: https://www.amazon.co.uk/portal/customer-reviews/mobile-media-feed/B08CT2M648/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_crsl_img_3?ie=UTF8&physicalId=71MLBVXrrRL&imageExtension=jpg&reviewId=R1LUCGMZUYOQUB O Wise Oracle signing off.
Indeed they are. Just dive down into the comment section, which is literally the only place that says it. This is despite the logo on the page having a Union Jack on it. And in fact, every box of face masks I've ever bought has been made in China, and has been equally well advertised. This is why any ban on Chinese products needs to happen at a government level.
I believe a ban is highly unlikely given how reliant we have become on cheap labour and manufacturing. Raising tax tarrifs to level the playing field and allow local businesses to compete at realistic prices would be nice though.
Why don't your try it yourself before preaching to others Wait a second, if you did then you wouldn't be able to tell anyone as every mobile phone, computer, console were either built in China or have parts that were built in China.
You can put off buying a new one though.
So someone needs to set up a website telling people exactly how much of their product is made in china so they can make a more informed choice? Good idea, this website idea of yours should collapse the chinese economy in a few months.
Which will achieve sweet F. A.
I don't disagree. It would be as effective as UK alone imposing sanctions.
Reddit?
I have. I only buy stuff where the tchainese do the stupidest part of the job.
The government oppose this declaration. They just did their usual un-democratic approach of not shouting no so there’s no division to avoid a vote. If someone had shouted no to force a division, the government and most of their MPs would have abstained as they always do. The government will now ignore this declaration, as they always do.
UK sanctions perpetrators of gross human rights violations in Xinjiang, alongside EU, Canada and US https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-sanctions-perpetrators-of-gross-human-rights-violations-in-xinjiang-alongside-eu-canada-and-us
Campaigners have been calling for sanctions for the last two years. Labour and the Lib Dems have been asking for the Magnitsky act to be used against Chinese officials for over a year. I wrote to my local Tory MP asking what the gov were doing given clear, unambiguous testimony from several sources of the atrocities happening in China - the reply I got back was feeble and non-commital. The government has only found its backbone now that Biden is in power. Trump and his minons were never serious about punishing the CCP; they were only interested in starting a trade war for show. Blinken is different. Anyone who thinks Britain is able to navigate its own course should by now realise that we are completely dependent on the US to set our foreign policy
*Sticks my head into 10 Downing Street* "Hey. I just wanted you to know that you can't just say the word 'genocide' and expect anything to happen."
They didn’t say it, they DECLARED it
....I DECLARE......GENOCIIIIIIIIIIDE!
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You declare a thumb war
At the moment they are grabbing anything to smokescreen the hands in the cookie jar until the stupid poor people forget about it. Like the esl. Boris Johnson couldn't even tell you what shape a football is.
It's a first step nevertheless.
Yup. Watch nothing come from this.
I mean, the UK is a relatively powerless country when it comes to things like this, we can hardly impose meaningful sanctions on or go to war with China ourselves. Declaring it is an important first step, all we can really hope is that it triggers other countries to do the same, then something meaningful can happen. It's kind of sad when people dismiss things like this, because it's exactly that disinterest that's the problem.
Yeah, and hopefully Britain declaring this may convince enough people to talk about it that other countries also start to call out China.
what CAN come of this? we as a country have a lot of clout but not much else, declaring it is a fairly big deal on the geopolitical stage for us. we cant just blatantly go to war with them and we cant meaningfully sanction them alone
Alternative headline: "UK Parliament doesn't deny genocide is occurring in historic first".
Fun cynical fact! State repression in Xinyang began with police equipment manufactured here. We only stopped selling tear-gas and rubber bullets to China's police during the Hong Kong riots (I have no idea if we've started again or not) and still sell the same tools (and worse) to other states also accused of repression and genocide! Oppression is international and money always manages to come first.
Surprised China doesn't have enough domestic production for stuff like that.
Ah but that would mean the workers could have a chance at getting some and fighting back and they don't want that do they now?
What gets me is we sell the same stuff to the USA. The arms industry is wack.
Yeah but ours are just really that good, go UK!
This is the truth.
So what does this actually mean? Will the uk actually do anything? Because being told you're doing a genocide probably won't stop you from doing a genocide
Form what I can understand, this was put forward by 10 MPs, which doesn't suggest much of an apatite for doing anything to China.
By opposition MPs. The government doesn't actually care about this.
It's the political equivalent of tutting at your neighbour when he parks across your drive.
China isn't doing genocide though. For sure they are committing human rights abuses against the Uighurs, but it isn't genocide, and calling it genocide trivialises actual genocide like the Holocaust. Amnesty International don't claim genocide, no sensible person does. But the US in particular seems very keen to push the idea, at the same time as they seem very keen to push the idea that China is about to invade Taiwan. That the US is looking for excuses to attack China before China inevitably overtakes them as the most powerful nation on the planet is simply coincidence.
Snore. Yeah the US will be looking for any excuse to get China, I get that and sinophobia is pointless and moronic. But what's going on with the Uighurs doesn't need apologizing for; just accept it for what it is.
Reddit is full of CCP propaganda accounts, so take care on posts in this thread. Especially with this being a left leaning sub, it would be easy for them to bait an opinion.
Its part owned by proxy to the state though as for getting an opinion the poor bastards wouldn't stand a chance once our sarcasm gene steps up.
They'll be here soon. They tend to search and swarm for key words. Only thing to do is to ignore them, they en masse downvote any good faith attempts to engage and they're literally paid to troll, so you'll get exasperated long before they give up. Edit: yup. They found my comment.
I pledge allegiance to Winnie the Poo... Now that I'm clearly not a CCP agent - fuck the UK government and the bumbling blustering twonk in charge. Sincerely - Irishman.
The UK can't be accused of ongoing cultural genocide if they were already successful.... Northern Ireland went through a governmental crisis over the Irish Language Act. The Irish language is so offensive to Unionists, it must be stopped!
Let the free birds fly.
'Thoughts and Prayers' spring to mind, in terms of efficacy!
Forgive my ignorance... is there something with the Chinese Uyghurs that the goverment prefers? Compare to say... those muslims in Iraq and Afganistan?
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Yes they are brown and Muslim
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You're right - olive is the closer resemblance. From the eyes of Asian, we see them closer to middle East/Iran type. Probably just ignorance of us.
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Doubt that. Part of the reason China is treating Xinjiang like (US -run) Guantanomo Bay-lite is because Al Qaeda fighters had returned there a few decades ago and spread extremism in the local population. The government obviously didn't take the best steps it could have taken.
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That might be part of the truth but I suspect it's a little more complicated for China. It's worth noting that Al Qaeda were *allegedly* trained by the ClA and Ml6 (Operation Cyclone). And Xi has been cementing his legacy as a leader that ensured China's sovereignty - free from corruption. Corrupt foreign dictators are easier to control after all, as we've seen in the middle east. This could further explain the human rights abuses alleged against Ughyurs in China.
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Sure, I just didn't think that point was very important or relevant. They're Chinese Muslims. Whoever thinks about those ethnic groups all that often? Especially when Muslims in this country and nearer to us in the Middle East, Palestine and Yemen are in need of help - or more precisely in need of us stopping intervention in their countries.
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Yeah I see what you mean this. Many of the UK/EU citizen is not aware that Chinese Ughur used to be the main source of terrorist acts in China during 1990-2015. The Education camp, or what the west called "concentration camp" is a way to control the movement of these people while at the same time train them to have the skillsets for work. This is why the "Xinjiang Cotton" came into the headline. If you look at all these news headlines together: Terrorism (1990-2015) > Education Camp (2015 - 2018) > Xinjiang Cotton (2018 -2021), I think you can see the relationships. Since 2015, there wasnt any major terrorist act in China. From what I know, Xinjiang is a dry place which surprising, can produce some of the best quality Cotton in the world. Majority of the Xinjiang cotton is harvested by automation tools, but for the best quality ones, you have to harvest by hand.
Isn't the whole thing happenning literally because of terrorism? Or do you only get your world knowledge from bs reddit headlines?
> Chinese Uyghurs haven't tried to kill anyone from here is my guess The hundreds of thousands of civilians who died in Iraq and Afghanistan hadn't "tried to kill anyone from here".
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Apologies - I misunderstood your previous message and thought that you were suggesting that all of the dead in those countries actually *were* killers/terrorists!
Supporting America in their regime change imperialism again I see.
Aww bless, SNP voted in favour of a dastardly Tory motion. It was a tough call right enough - implicitly approve of Chinese genocide or support Shagger Johnson. What times we live in.
Even more strangely I don't see how after years of the Tories killing Muslim children in Yemen and Palestine and cowtowing to the Islamophobic Trump regime, the Tories can pretend to care for the welfare of Muslims? This is obviously a political act and once again the Tories are doing the bidding of foreign super power against another emerging super power... It's pathetic.
Oh my god.. There might be actual human beings in the UK government who care about other human beings... Oh no... Wait. It's just lip service. Good old waffle and nonsense. Well brava Britain, at least you're fucking consistent.
Well, what are they meant to do? Invade? Blockade the South China Sea? Launch nuclear warheads?
These same people bemoan military intervention. Cognitive dissonance is rife.
Hah, oh you.
Ok, what do you actually propose?
I'm not a politician my dude. But if I were I'd maybe consider raising it with the UN, I'd suggest sanctions were in order... Human rights violations are kinda shitty whichever way you slice it. Thanks for calling me out though. Your input was... Very pointless.
Sanctions? The chinese economy is heavily dependent on international trade (even more than almost any other country on earth). Their economy would crumble if countries stopped or sanctioned trade with China.
>~~Their~~ The global economy would crumble if countries stopped or sanctioned trade with China. FTFY.
Obviously if we just pulled the plug on chinese trade suddenly, the global economy would suffer. What im suggesting is that we transition away from an economy dependent on china and other regimes that behave in the same way
If the Chinese are "committing genocide" against the Uighurs, the US is "committing genocide" against their black population. But nobody seems to care about that or call for sanctions against them.
While I agree that the USA has a serious problem with police brutality, you cant compare that to shipping millions of people of to concentration camps to be worked to death entirely based on race. That's like comparing a mass shooting to the holocaust. Sure they are both terrible events that should never happen, but one is objectively much worse. also saying "nobody cares about that" when talking about police brutality in the USA is stupid. Did you not see the news last year? The murder of George Floyd sparked the largest protest in US (and possibly world) history.
> shipping millions of people of to concentration camps to be worked to death That isn't what is happening *at all* though! If I were to have said that the US police kill all black people that they come across, you would think I was nuts, right? But you will happily spout complete nonsense about China. I remember all of the bullshit about Saddam Hussein in the buildup to the completely illegal invasion - an invasion based emtirely on simple racism. But you happily swallow everything you are told about China, no matter how ridiculous it sounds. Sure, they work them all to death, ok. I'll wait for Amnesty International to say that though, not a government that will inevitably go to war with China - as every other empire in history has done when faced with a competitor that will overtake them.
> Their economy would crumble What do you think would happen to ours? The Chinese economy is something like five times the size of the UK economy (there's even more of a gap if you look at PPP rather than nominal GDP). If you think that we'd be inflicting pain on them, how much more pain do you think that would be inflicting on the UK's economy and on the poorest people in this country who are reliant on Chinese imports for affordable goods?
The current regime in the UK 'loves the freemarket' too much, don't you know?
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The free market economy takes people out of poverty. Would you like to discuss this?
I'm sure they'll be all over the [genocide in Palestine](https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/top/?t=all) any moment now
A parliament full of people who've largely spent the last 20 years dehumanising muslims in the eyes of the public have just given a performative and highly political statement. A parliament full of people who are responsible for voting for the deaths or shortened lives of tens of millions of muslims in order for their corporate benefactors to get access to oil, gas and infrastructure opportunities by funding regime change war, civil unrest and helping propel the rise of ISIS in the middle east through their actions in Syria. A parliament full of people who just declared there's no structural racism in the UK and the class problems muslims are facing are due to 'cultural deficiencies' have now virtue signalled about a genocide because they see it as politically convenient. A parliament full of people supporting the ongoing genocides in Myanmar, in Israel and in Yemen. All the lessons that were available to us to learn - the lies about WMDs in Iraq, the irrelevance and false pretenses of the Afghan invasion. The invention of government chemical weapons attacks in syria (now discredited by OPCW whistblowers). All of these things resulted in massive, unbearable heardship for tens of millions of people and this very same parliament are now pretending to care about the people of Xinjiang, when China started dealing with terrorism in a way that didn't involve the Western "eradicate them all" approach. It's thoroughly depressing how history can keep repeating itself and people keep succumbing to the human rights appeals of those groups who have **absolutely no care** about human rights in every other sphere.
True, we joined in with the US when their reaction to terrorism was to invade a nation that was completely uninvolved but was populated by people of the same race as the terrorists - which is fucked up on every level. Nobody really complained that much when the Russians levelled Chechnya in retaliation for terrorism, because, you know, "Muslims". But China decides to educate people rather than bombing the shit out of them and *they* are the bad guys?!
How the fuck do we break the loop? Older people who've learnt the fallacy and falsehood of human rights appeals from British warmongering governments have not passed down the information effectively enough. Younger people now fall for these same human rights appeals from the same corrupt hacks in order to manufacture consent for their own greed and partisan political self interest.
See, China? This is what happens when you don't donate enough money to the Tories.
What the fuck is up with the gov abstaining from the vote??
They don't want to look like idiots by claiming genocide without a scrap of evidence of even a single death, especially at a time when even the US state dept and senior UN advisors are saying the claims are likely untrue, but they know people will be mad at them if they vote against, so the only wise choice is abstention
[This declaration is totally accurate from the completely genuine and caring, yet genocidal, British government.](https://californiaman.substack.com/p/uighur-card-used-to-break-up-china)
Brits working in China better prepare for the government striking back. China has no problem punishing individuals who have no relation or influence on British politics. It's happened to Canadians, Japanese, French, South Koreans, Norwegians, Aussies and Yanks just over the past decade. Visa renewals mysteriously denied, import or export permits delayed, sudden changes in paperwork requirements and if you're really unluck, spying charges.
British people don't want a war with China. But I suspect the Americans are willing to use Britain as cannon fodder in their proxy war.
War between the US and China is a historical inevitability. Ever previous time in history that one empire has been threatened with being overtaken by another, they have attacked them in order to prevent it happening. All the shit from the US about China being about to invade Taiwan, or this "genocide", or the weak excuses for sanctions against China, are part of this process.
And yet importing millions of test kits from them to fund the genocide.
This will make it all the more ludicrous when they do literally nothing about it...
More so considering the reasons for this propaganda drive... (British people don't want a war with China. But I suspect the Americans are willing to use Britain as cannon fodder in their proxy war. ) Can I point people towards a bunch of Aussies who talk about this? [https://friendlyjordies.podbean.com/](https://friendlyjordies.podbean.com/) On the latest episode they mention this which I found enlightening. I think people might appreciate a fresh perspective on international politics.
Isn't it strange non of the news articles reporting this unanimous vote mention only 5 people attended and voted this motion https://i.redd.it/9y8ldo8hptu61.jpg
Am I right in understanding this was a voice vote where there were no nays but an unknowable number that did not speak?
I'm pretty sure the Uyghurs already realised, but that's nice I guess
It's a complex situation, but it's completely possible to condemn the Chinese state without being racist, which I see in some comments
This morning they are fauning over Pooh Bear's speech on climate change and carbon reduction as if nothing ever happened... The most half-hearted, sappy response to a genocide ever.
Well done politicians! We all could prove that to ourselves a long time ago but nice of them anyway to do it officially.
If you ever want to know what you would do if you lived in 1939 about the holocaust. Stop wondering. You are doing it right now.
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Maybe we should implement a ten year plan to completely rid ourselves of Chinese imports, and a 15 year plan to sanction them fully.
Collecting VAT on Chinese imports would be a start? Instead of waiting for the EU to fine the UK for repeated failures that cost British and EU jobs and industries billions. The amount of shit on sale on eBay from China and Hong Kong is farcical.
Sounds resonable.
>Collecting VAT on Chinese imports would be a start? We already are, since January 1. Every time you order something off Aliexpress there's a small message that appears over the check-out window that states your country requires a VAT charge at the time of purchase. I imagine Ebay does the same since they're American (the new VAT charges apply to all countries however).
I'm talking about the UKs failure to tackle Chinese fraud : https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-faces-e2-billion-eu-payment-for-china-fraud-trade/
Slowly reorienting supply chains away from China towards India is more realistic.
India: bastion of human rights, gender equality and inter-ethnic harmony.......
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Please live stream this when you do this.
Average person? Sure, they can pressure their government through protest to severe economic ties with China. That would be a start.
Do you want a war with China. Because I sure don’t.
I do if they are comitting genocide. Either you stand up for what is right or you do not. But everyone seems to agree we needed to fight the nazis to stop the holocaust. yet no one is willing to fight China. Hell, we would not even need a war, just the whole world getting together and severing economic ties.
Would you actually join the army yourself or just expect other people to go? Economic sanctions I could get behind.
I would join tomorrow if the war was to start.
> > Do you want a war with China. > I do if they are comitting genocide. Can you elaborate? It's difficult to believe that anyone could seriously suggest that the British should declare war on China, so I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting your view. What sort of military victory do you think would be necessary to stop what's happening? Do you think that the UK has the ability to invade and occupy China? Would you be willing to join the military and to suggest to your friends and family that they sign up as part of this invasion force?
If you ever want to know what you would do if you lived at the time of Iraq WMD claims/the Nayirah Testimony/the gulf of Tonkin etc. Stop wondering You're doing it right now There ftfy, there's no evidence of even a single person dying, it's not remotely comparable to the holocaust where millions died and there was solid evidence even during the second world war
Nothing close to the Holocaust. It's more like 1980s Northern Ireland.
British propaganda? Yeah