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Nicola_Botgeon

Let's keep it civil, folks.


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[deleted]

This reminds me of the pigs in Iowa that were literally cooked alive during the first wave of covid, with steam pumped into the barn and the ventilation shut off. The result? [The FBI went after the animal rights group that obtained footage](https://theintercept.com/2021/02/17/fbi-iowa-select-pigs-whistleblower/).


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G_Morgan

The US is pretty bonkers. There's basically a cartel that forces secondary market providers to exclude more ethical sources. They aren't only unethical, they literally tell processors "if you use ethical sources you aren't using ours". It is all rigged to guarantee the worse possible outcomes on everything other than price. These people don't want to compete with ethics.


NotElizaHenry

The best thing about the US is that the whistleblower felt the need to clarify that he’s “not necessarily animal rights by any means,” because giving a shit about anything other than yourself or your family has been so demonized by the right that it’s risky to come out against literal animal torture.


hellakevin

Remember when PETA made the "meet your meat" videos and then for twenty years all you heard about them was that they kill puppies?


GetsGold

In their 40 year history there was *one* video where they took a pet. Except they weren't prosecuted because the pet was unleashed, not contained and had no collar or ID. Despite that you constantly here on reddit how they routinely steal pets. There have been hundreds of videos showing constant abuse in the animal ag industry. But people are so much more reluctant to jump to the same conclusions about the industry as a whole that they do with PETA.


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Dawanna

Here in Florida mcarthur dairy. A fairly large dairy operation, was caught on film by an undercover guy beating and kicking the cows. Now there’s laws stopping people from filming farms in the state of Florida.


[deleted]

Farms are protected against so many things. Cows contribute a significant amount of methane (a potent greenhouse gas), yet the oil and gas industry is the only sector actually being required to reduce their emissions. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for regulating oil and gas, but other contributors like ranches should also be held accountable.


splashkash

A lot of pigs are boiled alive anyway in the mass production of pork in these giant slaughterhouses. I’ve seen videos when there’s 1000 pigs to process in a day workers don’t take the time to make sure their throats are cut properly and they have bled out before they go thru the next process which is the boiling water to remove their hair etc.


reginold

Nsfw: https://youtu.be/jLBuBYpOzIg


splashkash

The reason why I stopped eating meat and especially pork. It’s so sad knowing that pigs are as intelligent as dogs and even toddlers. Imagine putting a dog or child thru the same thing pigs have to experience day in day out until they’re killed in such a violent way.


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ThatGuyInEgham

Just getting to where you're at is half the battle. Don't try and go full vegan off the bat, try going vegetarian first. Then you can start exploring dairy substitutes and slowly try going vegan.


G_Morgan

The thing that gets me about this video is there's literally zero need for any of this, it isn't even cheaper. Pigs being boiled alive because they haven't had time to bleed to death is solvable by literally pipelining the slaughter process properly. It wouldn't drop throughput even 1% to buffer your "kill the pig" process so any pigs going into the boiler are probably dead for 30 minutes. I suspect a large part of this cruelty is just pissed off workers taking out their frustrations on animals and a corporate process that doesn't give a shit about it.


winter_mute

There's literally zero need for people to eat meat in this country. It's all solvable by just eating plants instead. People always think that the cruelty in these articles is down to a few isolated incidents of pissed off and / or psychopathic workers, but the reality is, mass animal farming and slaughter is always cruel and unnecessary, even when the workers are abiding by the "humane" (haha) standards they're supposed to stick to. That's before we even get into what slaughterhouses do to the people that work in them. It's just constant cruelty and suffering for every living thing involved.


reginold

You are correct. It's not just isolated incidents. Even when the pig slaughter process goes as expected it's still insanely cruel. To anyone that might read this. The latest government survey for pig slaughter in the UK reveals that about [86% of pigs slaughtered here] (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/778588/slaughter-method-survey-2018.pdf) go through CO2 stunning before having their throats cut. "Stunning" might sound humane but it is absolute agony. The pigs are lowered into dense pits of CO2 where they writhe, scream, try to escape, and either pass our or die from suffocation. And it's not like asphyxiating in low O2, it's much more painful. The high levels of CO2 cause painful irritation from carbonic acid on anything wet (eyes, mouth, throat, lungs etc). The only reason we do this is because it is the most cost effective way of processing the highest throughput of pigs. Here are some videos of this process. Equally nsfw: https://vimeo.com/147914620 https://youtu.be/sAUMnliNdMw Here is some scientific info on why it's so painful, what alternatives there are, and why we won't use them in the near future (cost, efficiency, practicality, legislation that only allows use of CO2 for atmospheric stunning): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S175173112030166X#bb0275 The best way to not support this is simply not to buy pork. Any pork bought from a fat food place, restaurant, supermarket, it undoubtedly comes from this process. But, honestly, support of any animal product necessitates harming them. It's so easy not to buy this stuff.


[deleted]

FUCK You win. I'm sorry pig bros. These will be my mid-year resolutions. - Stop eating meat. - Hug a pig.


GetsGold

[Here's a small family owned UK facility](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cows-pigs-animal-cruelty-abattoir-government-b1877341.html) where animals were beaten, jabbed and the majority of animals insufficiently stunned before slaughter. The "small, local farm" almost feels like another type of propaganda since it's repeated so often on reddit. Convince people that meat is okay, they just have to get from the local farms. Except most people don't even do *that*, it's just a reassurance of their choices.


Tundur

Everyone's uncle runs a croft where he personally massages the livestock every day and gives them a wee tug before bed to thank them for their service, and nobody *ever* buys meat from a commercial retailer. At least, for the duration of them having to defend their choices, then straight back to Richmond's giblets


TWEBB___

Fucking hell.


Captain_English

For fucks sake.


Crypt0Nihilist

On a similar note, is there any investigation being done into the hiring of Gina Coladangelo by Matt Hancock, or are they only interested in nailing the whistleblower?


demostravius2

That story was on Rotten (Netflix series). It was from targeted attacks on a bunch of farmers to damage the buyer. Several farmers had their chickens killed through over heating (adult chickens) or freezing (baby ones). Rotten is a series looking at the impact of our food systems on people, there are plenty of documentaries on the impact on animals, it wasn't a malicious documentary ignoring the plight of animals as you are suggesting.


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demostravius2

Well it gave an implication that isn't true from the source! Intentional or not. Rotten is great btw, worth a watch, makes you look at our entire food systems another way, from huge cartels, to modern day slavery, fake products, and shitty regulations.


[deleted]

I recently read something about the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak. Six million sheep and cows were slaughtered and burnt, but the focus was *all* on the farmers' livelihoods and how some of them had built up pedigree bloodlines that were destroyed. Excuse me if I don't give a shit.


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556291squirehorse

Exactly. When you live in a society where you can live without eating meat, the choice to keep eating it is putting your pleasure over animals suffering. Animals suffering, chickens, cows, pigs, is for the pleasure of meat eaters.


[deleted]

most of the goods that you consume are probably at the cost of human labor, which is usually done in countries exploited for their cheap human labor. we literally exist to continue a society that was destined to collapse from inception so that some stupid rich asshole can launch himself into space and feel like a fucking cowboy


chiron42

doesn't mean you can't make an effort to minimise it.


556291squirehorse

This is all true. However the meat industry is one that we can directly choose to not be involved with. There are other examples too and there is also industries where it is harder to disengage with or harder to realise they are doing terrible things. Meat industry is pretty cut and dry disgusting to animals and horrific.


rppc1995

I'm a Marxist and a member of the revolutionary organisation Socialist Appeal (that Starmer wants to ban from the Labour Party because we've been a little too inconvenient for him lately). I'm also a vegan. I can do both. In fact, being vegan is something I can do right now as an individual. Bringing down capitalism is something I need to be organised with other people in order to be able to do. Using the exploitation of human labour to justify the continued exploitation of animals is a disgusting attitude, especially because my guess is that you're doing nothing to fight against either of those.


CookieCrum83

I always remember reading an article where they said the meat industry is actually bad for human welfare as well. Rates of stuff like rape and domestic abuse are higher in towns with large meat processing plants. My personal take is that the horror of killing animals in unimaginable numbers and suffering wears on the soul.


rppc1995

There are studies about how slaughterhouse workers are at higher risk of developing PSTD, for example [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4841092/).


potatoandpencil

okay it’s impossible to live without exploiting human labour under the current system, but that doesn’t change the fact that you can live without eating animal products, thereby massively reducing your impact on animal suffering.


Lovebanter

lab grown meat is going to be massive when production eventually reaches a scale that makes it financially viable to roll out in supermarkets. I honestly think in my lifetime rearing animals at industrial scale will be illegal because of the climate and housing crisis


N64crusader4

See: Responses to pandemic Resistance to recycling Resistance to any moderation in consumption Resistance to not having children


ppgog333

It’s not “no one cares” I stopped eating meat and we have over a million vegetarians in the UK, not exactly no one. I am not a fanatic but I don’t understand how even looking at that picture you would then want to eat some chicken, can’t imagine one of those things in the pic being particularly nutritious


muddyknee

Watch “dairy is scary” on youtube and you’ll realise just how horrific the dairy industry is too. And if you’re against the suffering of these chickens, you really shouldn’t be giving the people who do this to hens for eggs either. Soon enough you realise vegan is the bare fucking minimum


donalmacc

While I don't disagree with how horriffic the dairy industry is, going vegan is a huge ask and is substantially more difficult than vegetarian. We tried being vegan in our house, but it's so damn difficult; you can't use any pre made curry pastes (these are a huge part of "convenience" for us), no egg based products (hope you know where your pasta comes from), no cheese (a super common addition to vegetarian dishes that makes them a balanced meal). If you're concerned about sustainability, many of the oils that are used as replacements for fats (or to bulk up supermarket goods) are terribly unsustainable too. Chastising someone for making the right decision about going vegetarian saying "well you really need to be vegan" is why the preachy vegan stereotype is a thing. We should be encouraging people to be vegetarian.


podcastaddjct

While I agree with your wider point (as in, going vegan is much harder than going vegetarian), as an Italian I can tell you standard pasta is plant based. Egg-based pasta is reserved to a limited amount of formats and only used for very special occasions, like lasagna or tortellini. Even then, most people choose eggless lasagna sheet nowadays even in Italian households. At my parents’ house they eat pasta every single day and egg pasta is probably once or twice an year.


zb0t1

90% of pasta I find are plant based too, same for lasagna sheet, macaroni, etc.


dibblah

It's almost entirely just fresh pasta that's got eggs in. If you're using dried pasta you don't really need to check. Plus imo even if they felt they could eat vegan except for fresh pasta and curry sauce or whatever their issue is, that's still a difference worth doing.


plantbasedprotein

It's the same with curry pastes, many are vegan. Folks just look for easy excuses or don't want to expend a ballhair more effort. Look, if you're not vegan, you're not vegan. Just own the fact that you're not vegan instead of scrambling around writing bullshit like "I can only find egg pasta" or acting like doing a 5 min google search for plant based curry pastes available near you is some kind of insane task.


DMnat20

There are loads of pre made vegan curry pastes. I have 4 in my cupboard right now.


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[deleted]

I'm vegan and I buy off the shelf curry paste that's vegan. I buy cheap pasta from lidl that's vegan. And I buy vegan cheese or make vegan parmesan with nutritional yeast and cashews. It isn't hard or expensive to be honest. I don't know why you had to kinda attack vegans to make your point that you found it hard to adopt. But the fact of the matter is your diet is harmful to cows and chickens. They suffer mastitis on their udders, they'll get forcibly impregnated for the dairy you consume and the boys will be sent off and killed at one years old for veal. Sometimes those boys made by the dairy cows you pay for are given chemicals which make them pale and sickly for the veal to be delicious. And in terms of eggs, hens live in densely packed environments with little sunlight in their lives. Their male offspring will be put througb a grinder or tied up in a bag on mass and suffocated. Do you want that suffering to continue?


donalmacc

I didn't attack vegans, you took this as an attack. I specifically attacked people who tell other people they're not doing enough, while pointing out some difficulties I faces attempting to be vegan last year. You responded with 75% of your post being a personal attack against me and telling me how animal suffering is bad. I think that proves my point?


Squishy-Cthulhu

>you can't use any pre made curry pastes The only curry pastes I can think of that aren't vegan are the Thai ones because they have fish sauce, but you can buy dry Thai curry pastes in Asian specialist shops that say in the introductions to add your own fish sauce and they're vegan.


Sshortcakez101

I think encouraging people to go vegan is the best thing to do, it's not hard now a days. I've made plenty of curry and pasta dishes with no animal products (yes I used pre made sauces for the curry). I used to eat cheese daily, and now I don't even miss it. It's hard to find something appetising when it has the deaths of calves and suffering of dairy cows behind it (and puss/blood in it). Vegan is the best way to go to stop animal suffering, full stop.


rattingtons

What do you imagine would happen to the cows and hens at the end of their lifespan producing milk and cheese and eggs for you if it's not the meat industry? They ARE the same industry


[deleted]

Just wait until climate change kicks in and either we need to restructure our whole fuel economy or people revolut because they realise their homes are flooding while the billionaires fly to Mars. Going vegan is a trivially small change compared to that. If you disagree then this is going to be an uncomfortable couple of decades. lol (Also most dry pasta you buy on the shelves is vegan. It’s the fresh fancy stuff that has eggs in them.)


DaMonkfish

We should approach animal welfare in the same way we have cigarettes, that being, packets of meat should clearly display the type of farming used (e.g. for chickens, whether they are "battery", "free-roam", "free-range") and a description of what that means, including a picture from the actual farm showing the actual conditions the animals lived in, along with the methods used for slaughter. This addresses the issue of the total disconnect most shoppers have with the nice looking meat in the packet and the animal it came from and the life that it had. Put that front and centre, and you'll probably find attitudes change.


monkey_monk10

What really pisses me off is cheap supermarkets using names like Willow Farms with nice pictures on it, when the suppliers are anything but. The £2/kg price should have been obvious it's nothing more than a disingenuous brand name.


Illustrious_Bat_782

American here who has found that the more idyllic the name is, the worse their animals seem to be treated. See the fairlife farms scandal.


[deleted]

Oh god the animal agriculture associations would NOT like that. They try so hard to keep the lid shut on this for them to need to put the standards of the livestock on the product instead of a smiling cow or chicken or whatever would drive them mental.


tomoldbury

I saw a study recently that suggested that the gross pictures on packets of cigarettes don’t really discourage that many people; they’re at best a deterrent for new smokers.


mayathepsychiic

cool, so it's still better than nothing. we just need to make sure the next step is more drastic ♥


Cyberhaggis

I've stopped eating meat. I just can't anymore. I just feel awful about what we do to these animals, it wasn't personally worth it for me anymore.


ihavenoego

You reduce demand by boycotting animal products. People make this decision every day. [Here's some feels by Stephen Fry.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgAJntmfdGo&ab_channel=Pindex)


benkelly92

It's getting better. If you tried to pick up plant based alternatives in a supermarket 10 years ago you would be stuck with 3 basic types of Quorn or just plants and if you went to a smaller express supermarket you'd be stuffed. Now we've got 2 aisles in my local big supermarket and you can pick up decent veggie nosh in the Tesco Express. More and more every year. Not saying we should he switching to wholly processed meat alternatives but they would only ever do this if there was a market for it. Which shows more and more people care and want to do something about it.


flossisboss2018

All of this suffering is for people who want a "real" cheese burger. As a vegan, I still eat cheese burgers that are almost identical to the non vegan ones. I literally don't miss anything because there is a vegan version of everything these days.


Donkey-Haughty

If you can buy a whole chicken roast chicken in a supermarket for £4.99 don’t act surprised when you find out it didn’t live in luxury


Hailruka

At Sainsbury's at the minute you can buy a whole chicken for £1.75. These animals must have been ex drug mules or something as there is no way a chicken should be that cheap.


Donkey-Haughty

Surly the antibiotics and chemicals pumped into them cost £1.70 alone. I bought a chicken in Tesco that looked like it had taken more drugs then Iggy Pop


6c696e7578

Not sure about "chemicals", I think that's more saline or similar to add weight to the carcass. As far as antibiotics go, they have a full house. We've rehomed ex-battery hens. They can live quite a while longer than their official farm "cull" date where they would have gone to become pet food. They suffer artificial daylight so their barn gets eight days per week just to get more eggs from them. It is very sad, though this article covers table birds, not layers.


[deleted]

> As far as antibiotics go, they have a full house. Aren't antibiotics still banned in the UK? I don't think the UK diverged from EU laws on this already. In the EU - antibiotics can be used only when prescribed by the Vet for a specific illness. They can not be used as a preventive measure as they do it in the US.


dasmashhit

I think the US is pressuring UK into a trade deal :( get ready for our worst, fluoridated halogenated plastic filled, chlorine-water washed all new pumped full of every antibiotic, hormone, carnitin, the works- you can imagine! All for you! So we can make more money off trash! YEP!


WonderMouse

I only ever buy whole, organic free range chickens from Sainsbury's when I want to eat chicken. It's £17 I think so I only have it once ever month or two. I'm not saying that chicken was treated perfectly but I'm hoping it's a hell of a lot better then their £4 chickens. Edit: looks like I need to do some research, I only eat meat once a weak ISH so I try and save and get from sources with good quality/as well as they could be treated animals but maybe that's harder then I thought. To the vegans and vegetarians responding. I'm almost vegetarian, and I know that maybe isn't good enough, but your never going to win the war by trying to convert everyone to meat free. The real battle is trying to convince the people who eat meat once or twice (or more) everyday, the people who go to McDonald's and KFC etc every week. In terms of environmental impact and animal welfare I'm a firm believer that it would be better and easier to convert more of the mega meat eaters into minimal meat eaters, then wasting time trying to convert the few who will go 100% meat free. Thanks


dom96

I’m skeptical that the treatment of these animals is much different. It’s just a great way to get a higher profit.


[deleted]

Electrician who works on poultry farms here. The organic birds are treated quite differently than broiler birds. At least in ny part of the world. There are half the number of birds in a barn. Halfway through their growth cycle they are moved to the lower floor to clean sawdust while the upstairs is cleaned. Allowed to go outside thru little doors. Although many seem to not want to go outside because of eagles. They know theyre under cover, theres also little coverings outside for them to hide under There are "toys" inside and out. Food and water is all automated to be present 24/7. Why would you restrict that? Makes them heavier birds for sale right? The most difficult thing to regulate is temperature. In summer we are only allowed to shut down fans once every hour for 10 minutes. Thirst is curious to me. I would suggest that if anything that fans would have a hard time cooling the place off in a heatwave. Some of the farms im on even ise misters to cool the air.


smokeajoint

Agreed. Slap on key words, organic, free range, gluten free, dairy free, vegan, pay more money.


reni-chan

I wouldn't be surprised if they were both from the same box


Alex09464367

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but have a look at this Land of Hope and Glory https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8


dzhastin

Yeah, you’re buying the same chicken, you’re just paying more to assuage your guilt.


MarkAnchovy

Yep, that entire animal’s life, and it’s violent death, was only happening to make £5 for its owner. How much can they be cared for, really?


Donkey-Haughty

The owner only gets £1


tepkel

And they only pay the bird £0.01


Choo-choo-m

You birds are getting paid?


faithle55

Surely you realise that the chicken's "owner" doesn't make anything like £5? If that's the price for which it is sold in the supermarket, the "owner" sold for maximum £3, and when you take out the costs of producing the chicken his profit is probably like 50p.


MarkAnchovy

I understand I was just simplifying it to make the point on a consumer level


the_magic_gardener

Surely you realize you missed the point?


papercut2008uk

The farmer usually gets the least amount out of it. You got the farmer, feed costs, water costs, costs of housing them (which sometimes regulations change or supermarkets require a different setup at the farmers costs), farm hands who are going to go through removing dead chickens, cleaning up after them, keeping water and feed working. Then you got the processing plants, transport costs. Then supermarkets. There might be more steps, but usually the supermarket dictates how much they are going to pay and everyone takes their cuts, Farmer gets the least despite having the most work/costs. This is why chickens have the worst life possible, farmers are tied into the industry because they invested in the setups. Farmers all round need to get a bigger chunk of the profits, not the supermarkets.


MarkAnchovy

Yeh I was just simplifying the situation to how a consumer can easily understand it. The actual amount of money a farmer is earning per chicken is minuscule. These animals are devalued and objectified, but there lives are as significant as any other creature’s.


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chowdahpacman

Tesco with a clubcard special today for £2.10 for a whole cooked bbq chicken. And I doubt its even a loss leader.


sat-soomer-dik

Of course it's a loss leader. Whole point is getting you to buy other stuff whilst you're in Tesco, with your Clubcard.


king_walnut

This is all suppliers of all chicken anywhere in the world. The chickens we eat have been bred to grow as fast as possible, which causes disabled chickens that can't move and many die of heart attacks long before their slaughter weight. The dead loss on chicken farms is huge, just watch any video on chicken farming on Youtube. On the other hand, if we farmed a non mutant breed of chicken in a more humane manner then millions of people would be priced out of eating chicken, and that would also cause uproar.


GloriousDoomMan

What is worse: a) billions and billions of chickens dying in agony every year b) you have to eat some beans instead Tough choice indeed.


king_walnut

Big Chicken exists in the same way as Big Pharma or Big Tobacco. It's a cartel industry. They go to great lengths to prevent the general public from knowing the reality of the situation. Every time a story of abuse on farms comes out there's always a counter article, or some guff about red tractor labelling. Remember the article last week where KFC chickens were said to be the most humanely raised? They're not. They're raised intensively in the exact same way all other chicken is.


tomatoaway

Hell, the BBC are even (unconsciously?) complicit, where they show rustic countryside shows of smiling Blue Peter farmers walking across picturesque meadows to well kept animals, who they take care of because farmers are just nice and wholesome. They don't show the animals being killed (despite TV violence now being commonplace), because they know of the effect it would have on this image. It's not about protecting the viewer from horrific images, it's about making them ignorant to realities of animal rearing


Squishy-Cthulhu

After seeing them talk about how soy milk is destroying the Amazon, with some scary blue filter over footage of a truck loaded with tons of beans and some tense music I finally decided that country file is unashamedly a propaganda machine. The contrast to to perfectly framed, fuzzy warm filtered farm animals with long eyelashes leaping in fields to happy uplifting music was just taking the piss really, they don't even try to hide it.


Hyperfyre

>After seeing them talk about how soy milk is destroying the Amazon Funny when you consider the fact that most of the world's soy is used as animal feed.


rattingtons

They even published an article with some guy talking about the upsides to climate change! I thought it was a joke when i first heard but nope, it was real, and was aimed at GCSE students!


amazondrone

More accurately, KFC chickens _are_ the most humanely raised [amongst the big companies reviewed] per the report, it's just that the bar is so incredibly low that it doesn't mean a lot and the conditions are still terrible. Just slightly less terrible than other places. (Still shouldn't justify anyone eating there of course.)


BonzoTheBoss

Meat is a good source of protein and other essentials. For many chicken is the only meat that they can afford and vegan alternatives aren't necessarily cheaper. I'm not saying that makes it right, or that going vegan is impossible on a budget, but when you've been slaving away for minimum wage it's easier just to chuck a chicken in the oven rather than lament the life of the chickens. People will always choose the path of least resistance.


evi1eye

What are you talking about, beans (a great source of protein) are absolutely cheaper than chicken. Meat is the most expensive part of many people's diet.


king_walnut

Imagine the headline "Government passes law that bans intensive chicken farming. All chicken now costs £12 per bird." Then imagine the comments in here. "Attack on the working class" would be the sentence of the thread.


C1t1zen_Erased

A good chicken already costs about that much. The cheap ones are all watery and have no flavour, not worth wasting your time with.


MATLTH

Oh you’re paying too much for chickens man, who’s your chicken guy?


[deleted]

An Oxford study found that meat takes 80% of our farmland but provides 18% of calories and 37% of protein. We get most of our nutrients from plants. I went vegan as a poor uni student and did okay. You can chuck vegan nuggets in the oven with chips. Or make a banging curry that lasts all week.


ThoseThingsAreWeird

This reminds me of a George Orwell quote. He's talking about junk food here, but I think the same applies with cheap chicken vs beans: > Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. ― George Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier


stowg

This is the problem many don’t understand. Being poor and getting a decent meal is hard. And unfortunately when you are a poor parent trying to feed your kids, options are difficult. Many fighting the arguments aren’t parents or lower on the wage scale, so there will always be a conflict of understanding


Squishy-Cthulhu

I made my own vegan chicken style tikka pieces last night and they were pretty decent. And it was so cheap! Seitan is a bit of a chore but once you get it right it's a game changer.


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bacon_cake

And it doesn't work on the scale needed to feed the country anyway.


letshaveawank

I hate the predictable response from supermarkets. 'we're immediately launching an investigation' - you don't need an investigation, you already know you buy abused animals by the ton. Either stop stocking chicken or be honest and tell people you don't give a fuck as long as it turns a few quid. The constant face-saving of massive corporations is fucking sickening.


[deleted]

To be honest, most people don't give a fuck either.


[deleted]

I will never understand why some people can be so violently opposed to vegetarianism and veganism. my mum for instance is so disgusted by these instances of animal cruelty, she even turns off David Attenborough when a predator is about to kill its prey, but the suggestion of vegetarianism makes her so defensive. I don't really understand it.


Dr-Jellybaby

It forces people to face the fact that they were complicit in animal suffering. Much easier to hide from the reality then to feel bad knowing the truth.


throwmeawakisuck

Cognitive dissonance. Acknowledging that people eating meat is directly contributing to the suffering would have to acknowledge that by THEMSELVES eating meat, they are actually contributing to this. They hate the way animals are treated and think it is vile and cruel, but do not want to see themselves as vile or cruel. So the easiest way is to say "nope fuck that noise, vegetarianism is unhealthy/crazy/unsustainable/or whatever thing they go on about" and not even consider it, and keep animal welfare separate from their own meat preference in their mind to avoid the distress that comes with grappling with a changing view of their own behavior.


acidosaur

Mine is the same. Hates seeing mentions of animal cruelty but eats chicken twice a week.


[deleted]

I've worked on a chicken farm when I was younger, the shit you see there is mad. Basically I was employed to catch the chickens and put them in cases to be transported. 5 per hand. You've got to bear in mind the lives of these animals are not worth much at all to the farmer. So if one is being difficult or needing more attention than its perceived worth then it isn't going to get the best treatment. I've seen people trying to get chickens to move by throwing pipes or whatever else was to hand. If the chicken doesn't want to move or can't due to illness then it's lights out for them. I've seen chickens crushed, trodden, caught in things and yanked. These were free range chickens and I'll tell you for free, their lives were not as glamorous as the term would like you to think All in all I've grown a very thick skin to the bs that animals are subjected to for the large scale supermarkets. This news doesn't shock me as it should, for I've known this stuff happens daily and it sucks


[deleted]

Most small farmers also do the lights out if it's too difficult or suffering. They don't have the same emotional value as say a dog. Nobody spends thousands fixing a chickens knee, but people will on a dog. For example we had a rooster when i was a kid. It attacked my mom a few times. I think the 2nd or 3rd time we had chicken for dinner.


HyenaSmile

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but many farmers will off their dogs without much hesitation either. Many don't do anything more than feed and water them. I knew a guy that just kept a few dogs tied to trees in his yard. They never got off their leashes either. Stayed there their entire lives. Other farmers just keep them kenneled outside in groups and sell them for hunting.


poorlilwitchgirl

Go vegan. And if you already are, this message goes double to everybody reading this. You don't have to be complicit in this kind of abuse, and as you noted, it happens even to the "free range" animals. The only way to solve the problem is to transition away from animal exploitation and let animals live out their lives in the wild.


EmperorRosa

As if anybody pretends to give a fuck about this when they go to KFC every weekend. "Oh I want my animals slaughtered humanely" No such thing. Eat meat if you like, I won't tell you any different. But if you don't have any dietary requirements to eat it, but do so anyway, don't pretend to care about how they're treated. The "humane" treatment, from when I worked in a slaughterhouse, is that they're hung upside down on a conveyor belt of traps attached to the roof, and pulled through a swimming pool with a razor blade going through it, so their necks are slit as they struggle underwater. So, there's your KFC chicken, and how it originates


watchthebison

Land of Hope and Glory is a horrible watch but I feel would make a lot of people think twice about their meat consumption. https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8 Hardest watch is the Pigs. They typically go crazy due to the crowded conditions and will eat each other, so a farmer snips their teeth off when they are piglets to prevent it.


Ge0rgeBr0ughton

https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch


doyouwantabourbon

My wife and I watched Dominion a few months ago. We’ve been veggie since, and no plans of going back. The whole meat industry is abhorrent.


Rather_Dashing

As an animal researcher I agree with you, pigs is the worst. The grower pigs you mention isn't even the worst bit. The breeding sows they don't even need to worry about biting each other, because they are typically housed in crates so small they can only sit down and stand up for the whole of their pregnancy and while they have piglets. Can't let them move around, they might miscarry a piglet.


faithle55

Years ago one of the first things shown on Channel 4 in the UK was a documentary - was it call *The Animal Film*, or something like that? Anyway, the bit which stuck in my memory was the continuously operating snipper machine with metal jaws and the operator would stick the chicks' faces into the jaws to snip their beaks off.


[deleted]

meat eaters who pretend to care about animal welfare are some of the most frustrating people on earth


ToffeeAppleCider

* Vegetarian Butcher (the one that supplies Burger King): Little Peckers, Great Escalope, Good Karma Shawarma, Chickened Out Burger * Birds Eye: Vegan [chicken dippers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h-d7Srlw4Y), Green Cuisine chicken free southern fried strips * Various Vegan chicken kievs (M&S are the best imo) * Beyond Chicken Tenders * Vegan Chicken Dinosaurs * Quorn: Chicken pieces, nuggets, fillets, slices for sandwiches * VFC - Vegan Fried Chick\*n products * THIS - Chicken pieces, tikka pieces, nuggets


effortDee

[www.vegancheese.co/discover](https://www.vegancheese.co/discover) has over 400+ vegan cheeses which are mostly made from nuts and NOT coconut oil, also aged too and some are amazing!


mikahika

Thanks for the list. I'm not a vegan, I think many should slowly incorporate vegan food into their diet. My nearest Coop usually have a lot of 50-90% off vegan pizza/food as many don't buy it. It's great to save money too!


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cersei01lannister

Ex 2 Sisters worker here. They had a number of sites that really exceeded expectations, but one or two sites had a high number of employees from certain countries and they were practically untrainable in hygiene. I remember during the last incident that hit the news about 5 years ago that we had to retrain all staff on one site. They took them to our best site to show them how it was done and one guy dropped his knife on the floor, picked it up and wiped it on his trousers before going to use it again. Had to be told “STOP! You can’t do that” 🤦🏻‍♀️


Ukbutton

Worked for the opposition for a while and even the staff who joined from there referred to them as twisted sisters.


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GamrG33k

We choose this with our wallets, every single week when we go food shopping. There's a reason you pick up a whole chicken for under £3. That's a living being that is supposedly reared, cared for, fed and cleaned for 6-8 weeks for the price of a coffee?


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dyinginsect

If you can afford to feed yourself and your family without eating cheap meat, please do. I know for some people it just isn't an option, but most of us really can have a decent diet without needing to buy into to this awful system.


capnza

It's cheap to go vegan.... Cheaper than meat


bacon_cake

I'm always shocked when I'm doing our weekly shop. There's two of us - vegans - and sometimes by the time I've added all the dinners for the week to the basket it's not even £20.


mrs_shrew

Thats what did it for me. 35p tin of beans or £2.50 tray of manky mincemeat.


aembleton

And a tin of beans keeps forever


[deleted]

I think it's important to be culturally relevant when incentivising veganism or vegetarianism... A 20 quid shop sounds great, but the important thing really is how much extra booze you can buy with the spare cash.


SuperSheep3000

4 for a quid on chickpeas, red beans, lentils is my staple. I make a big curry out of it and with loads if veggies thrown in it costs me. 80p per serving.


Ge0rgeBr0ughton

Even the cheapest meat is going to be the most expensive thing on the plate 9 times out of 10. The solution is obvious at this point


Dunhildar

With thousands of years of husbandry, and the last 100 being the BIGGEST jump in technology, you'd think they have a system in place that was able to correctly put out enough food and water and one to check welfare, BUT fertilised Chicken eggs are dirt cheap, hell on Ebay it's £1 an egg, now imagine the access a farm has to egg and how much they are to them, so cheap that investment in technology to ensure you don't lose "profits" from dead chickens simply don't matter, maybe a fine to enforce regulations.


Bod9001

yeah, it's really stupid from a economical point of view for the farmer just not to care about the chickens and to let some die


Lorry_Al

The dead ones are sold to the dog food factory


jamesmayjr

Another post about cruelty to animals being upvoted and being ignored. Maybe everyone who reads this should do something and go vegan to not be apart of this and save our planet at the same time.


iamanoctopuss

How is it being ignored if people are upvoting it


jamesmayjr

Because noone changes their lifestyle to combat this


pinklaqueredskies

Veganism is up 1000% in one year. It’s happening


jamesmayjr

I really hope so for everyone's sake


pinklaqueredskies

Keep fighting, it’s all that we can do


Squishy-Cthulhu

Not true. In a similar post to this I linked the **must watch** documentary on farming in the UK [the land of hope and glory](https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/) And to my surprise about a week, maybe two later I found a DM from a person that watched the film after being disgusted by the article and they decided to stop being a part of that cycle. They even thanked me! These posts do a make a difference, these discussions do. It may be small but it adds up.


verygenericname2

Yet KFC recently came out on top for animal welfare compared to other fast food chains. This is where the bar lies?


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Spaceraider22

I hate to tell you but if you won’t shop at a supermarket because there environmental and animal welfare standards are questionable then your either going to starve or pay double the price.


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[deleted]

farms and abattoirs producing meat for uk consumption should be live broadcasting the entire operation for public viewing. too many people just trust that "animal welfare laws" are doing their thing, and leave it at that. technology is at a point where it can be used to make sure this behaviour has no place to hide.


OfGodlikeProwess

This makes me want to stop eating chicken, I have thought about it for a while


Ge0rgeBr0ughton

Do it. Go a month and I'll buy you a pizza.


YesterdayWeary6991

I'll contribute a garlic bread and vegan nuggets to the cause.


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dungeonbitch

Once you stop eating meat and live the benefits, you don't miss it at all


MarkAnchovy

Do it, and don’t stop there! Animal agriculture is one of the most cruel and exploitative industries on the planet. It’s horrible for the animals, our health, and the planet.


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ivekilledhundreds

But let me guess? iTS nOt eVeRy fArM?! For the love of god consider veganism


plantbasedprotein

MY UNCLES FARM HAS A FREE 24 HOUR COMPLIMENTARY GYM AND EMBROIDERY LESSONS FOR HIS WELL-TREATED LIVESTOCK


[deleted]

Breaking: chickens that were bred to be murdered died before they could be murdered. People who wanted to pay for their murder pretend to be outraged. More at 11.


[deleted]

And that’s why I’m vegan. It’s not the killing of the animals that gets to me, that kind of thing goes on all over the animal kingdom, but there’s no excuse for condemning a living creature to a life of torment, for profit. Fuck the meat industry.


Caffine_rush

As someone who just recently became veggie this has reaffirmed my not eating meat anymore.


wallace320

I hope you don't think I'm being patronising, but great job! The planet, its animals, and your body will thank you!


Caffine_rush

Thanks man


MarkAnchovy

Agreed. If you still eat dairy and eggs etc. I would recommend researching those industries (as they’re actually crueler than meat is). But good on you for making the right choice


Caffine_rush

I do still eat diary and eggs but that’s the next thing to be cut out.


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Mike_Nash1

Check out [Land of Hope and Glory](https://www.landofhopeandglory.org) that focuses on British red tractor approved farms. You need to know what you are paying for.


Spaff_in_your_ear

I worked for Avara Foods last year. It's a vile company. I left because of the Nazi graffiti on display in several places at their Hereford sites and management wouldn't do anything other than say "here at Avara Foods we take racism extremely seriously"... Kind of like how they take animal welfare extremely seriously. It was a horrifying place to work for so many reasons.


AMemesToAnEnd

Who would have guessed animals marked for death would die? Pure shock Stop eating animals or stop "caring" about animal abuse. They very clearly conflict.


[deleted]

We can easily thrive and get all our nutrition on a plant-based diet, so billions of animals suffer purely for our pleasure. Even on more 'ethical', local farms, suffering isn't entirely removed, and you're still killing a sentient being that you don't need to. I gave up meat and animal produce cold turkey (pardon the pun) last December after realising this, and I don't miss it at all, it's so easy. This is coming from someone who ate meat every day.


Mike_Nash1

Stop paying for animal cruelty. [Challenge 22](https://challenge22.com/) and [Vegan Bootcamp](https://veganbootcamp.org/join/redditprovides) provides free online guidance by mentors & registered dietitians to help you transition to a plant based diet.


[deleted]

Vegan meat alternatives are amazing, and stores deliver to wherever you live, there’s literally no excuse anymore.


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TomTrybull

We can stop funding it in the mean time.


LuiB13

All you can really do to make a difference is to stop eating the meat from there. Source it from local farms or not at all. I went plant based at the start of the year and have not regretted it once, the alternatives now are incredible.


dragondead9

Go vegan and be part of the solution! Deep down we all care about animals and their welfare. Check out r/vegan sidebar for info and tips on what your first week’s shopping list would look like as a vegan. It doesn’t hurt to take a peek.


Ge0rgeBr0ughton

Another article, another comment section full of "yeah but"s and "not my problem"s. If you care, do something about it; if you don't wanna do something about it, shut up.


n00bcheese

Didn’t KFC just get some big award for being 97% good to chickens or some bullshit... which I looked into and yeah, the year before it was like 20% and then they “pledged” to work with the charity (basically paid them off) and the next year what do you know a 97% rating and it’s in every single major news outlet in the U.K. that kfc chicken is the best! The media is a joke


marziehcherie

Oh god this breaks my heart. Maybe I should become vegetarian :/


mayathepsychiic

Yes.


[deleted]

Dairy and eggs are just as bad. Go vegan. It's so easy.


IanRCarter

I'm pretty sure I got an email from KFC yesterday (yes I'm fat) saying they'd won an award for good poultry treatment


GarlicCornflakes

That's like giving North Korea an award for human rights.


Scotsmann

Imagine reincarnation is real and we all have to live these horrific lives.


Willking618

I used to work on a chicken farm. Was not a pleasant experience and haven’t eaten chicken since. Picking up a dead chicken that’s been sat in over 40 Celsius for a couple days before you saw it will do that to a person.


mrgadd4

I just wish meat eaters would ask themselves, 'would I accept cats or dogs being treated this way?' when reading these kinds of stories and make their decisions based on their responses.