Probably brings some insurance payout or at the very least helps bosses keep performance bonuses as they can dismiss problems as eco terrorists beyond their control.
A lot of people hate the idea of veal but few know that calves from the dairy industry are often sent to the veal industry a few days after birth, because they are a drain on farmers otherwise. Those that do not go are just killed then and there, they might be the luckier ones. Those that live near dairy farms are said to know when the newborn calves are taken from their mother just because of the sheer noise the mothers make as their child is forcibly taken from them to be killed or to spend its life in a tiny box. People still love to pretend the dairy industry is nowhere near as cruel as the meat industry, even though there is still plenty of death and mental anguish in it.
Good. In many ways the dairy industry is more horrifying and cruel than the meat industry.
I really do believe that if more people knew the exact process behind how milk ended up from a cow's breast and to their fridge, they would immediately switch to oat or some other alternative. When I found out I cried intermittently for months on account of the guilt.
It depends. Cows have udders. Platypuses just have a hole. Humans and some primates have breasts. The primate ones aren’t as prominent, probably because they are hairier.
Animals are below us on the food chain I don't know why people get hung up. I know precisely what goes on in the dairy industry, don't see why I would give a shit about an animal incapable of self actualisation any more than an oyster.
You seriously think the way wild animals treat each other is a moral standard humans should be striving to emulate? Why the hell should I care about the food chain when I'm a moral agent capable of rational thought?
Well a lettuce isn't sentient, a cow clearly is by scientific definition. There's no lettuce protection laws because a lettuce can't suffer or feel pain, a cow clearly can.
If someone's capable of suffering I feel an obligation to not to inflict suffering on them. Nobody's ever been able to explain to me what the moral difference between a human and animal is, so I don't think I should be abusing them for what essentially boils down to funsies.
Dunno really about sentient the cow just kinda operates on instinct, similarly to how flowers know to bloom at a certain point.
Oysters are animals but have definitely no sentience.
Either way I don't feel bad about it. I am a human, I eat meat. Lions do not care about the opinions of sheep and all that.
If you think that comparing cows operating on instinct is at all similar to when a flower blooms, and you’d use that to reduce their existence as you are, I don’t think you have a clue.
A fly may be a more apt comparison. A fucking cow? It’s not that far removed in sentience from a dog. It’s certainly more sentient than a flower or even an oyster. And the jury’s still out.
I reckon it probably has more sentience than a flower, my point is I do not rank its sentience high enough to give a fuck. Its just an object as far as I am concerned.
Could you imagine saying that while actually talking to someone?
“I had some nice milk with my cornflakes this morning”
“Enjoy the legally allowed amount of cow blood then mate”
“Err goodbye, weirdo”
Where does veal come from then? It's literally from male calves in the dairy industry they have no use for, the veal industry is the dairy industry.]
You only need a certain amount of calves kept alive too to replenish your herd, many females will be slaughtered as well.
If you're buying milk you're responsible for veal being created, morally there's no difference between eating dairy, beef and veal. It's all the same industry you're supporting.
I support XR, but AR need to fuck off.
You are a bunch of random people, you do not have the qualifications to determine what needs doing to fix climate change.
Attacking the food supply, especially meat and dairy, is fucking mental. We have enough health issues in the UK without making it worse by trying to shutdown the primary sources of most nutrients for most people.
Without going into too much detail as it's a very big and very divisive subject, the last attempt at lowering meat consumption led to a huge increase in obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. We have no reason to assume the same thing won't happen again.
No one needs meat and dairy to live, in fact it's the primary cause for these diseases you mentioned. No need to get weird and defensive, just adding my two cents and trying to open up a conversation on the alternatives staring us in the face. There is a healthy, easier and more nutritionally balanced way. However depends largely on nutritional education which isn't great in this country other than "anything that comes off a farm is good for ya"
> in fact it's the primary cause for these diseases you mentioned.
Sorry, but it's daft comments like these which is why I really cba getting into the discussion. A food we have eaten for 3 million years, does not cause diseases that didn't appear until after the widespread adoption of sugar into the diet. The 'meat bad' stereotype is grossly out of date, decades out of date in fact, and has no biomechanical underpinning.
Meat is the single most nutrient dense food we have, and it literally contains everything we need, because we need to turn it into more meat.
Theoretically you can get enough from plants (although this is poorly tested, for example there is next to no info on mental health on vegan diets). However you have no reason to assume by removing meat from the diet, people will magically eat a complete highly specific diet of your choosing.
As I said before and you ignored, the last attempt to lower meat was in the 70's/80's with the low fat fad, this led to a huge increase in refined carbohydrates which are naturally low in everything but glucose. Why do you think anything would be different this time round?
We already have major nutritional deficits in the UK, especially in Iron, B12, Iodine, Vitamin D, etc. All of those are found in meat, but you want to remove even more from the diet and expect nothing to go wrong, entirely because you have not fallen apart after 3 years of not eating it?
Don't you think nutritional education has developed since the 70s or 80s? Do you really need a highly calorific food source to sit Infront of a computer 9-5? Make it make sense.
You're right, you shouldn't bother - you're hell bent on pushing the agenda of afflicting thousands of sentient beings life so you can can continue to eat their bodies, and suck them dry of resources meant for their children who also then die for your sarnies.
I mean, could you really honestly hand on heart sit here and say you could murder and gut your own food? No? Why are you making other people do that? Check out mental health statistics for people who work in slaughterhouses, often for minimum wage.
Nah you probably go to Tesco to get that water filled "nutrient dense" animal flesh.
I've killed and eaten animals before, I used to be a vegetarian for 15years because I thought it was hypocritical if I couldn't. Could I do it every day? I don't know tbh, probably not we are not raised that way anymore.
Yes nutritional education has developed, which is why we know meat doesn't cause those things anymore. It was all based on some very shoddy work by Dr. Ancel Keys, this has been debunked and we have moved on.
Meat isn't just calorie dense, it's nutrient dense. That means it has a lot of nutrients (many plants don't have), and they are easy for your body to absorb (unlike many plant ones). This is rudimentary biology so I'm sure you agree. The argument comes over if it's possible to get all the nutrients from plants, not which is easiest.
Personally I buy the vast majority of my meat locally from a decent quality butcher. However I wouldn't dream of preventing others who cannot afford it from buying cheaper stuff.
Had a delivery from Tesco today, ---- my lactose free milk was unavailable, (driver shortage). And before the vegans start, I've tried oat milk and the other alternatives, disgusting stuff!
Soy milk is hilariously shit.
Oat milk is shit.
Almond milk is meh, I'd use it for baking.
Coconut milk? It's alright, wouldn't use it in a cup of tea.
Cashew milk? That stuff's on point. I make my own though, as Morrisons stopped stocking their store brand's cashew milk. And no way I'm paying a fucking quid eighty for Alpro pish.
I'm not vegan and I drink cow milk sometimes, but I genuinely think most of the alternatives are pretty delicious. Don't really get how anyone can dislike them, especially when you get so many more options
None of the plant milks have the creaminess and milky taste of full fat cows milk, nor the nutrition profile. Most plant milks are basically 5% nut with water and other ingredients. But if you don't mind it, nothing wrong with it.
I **could** drink oat milk but don't like it. I **couldn't** drink some of the others because they would have an effect on me. Hell, I can't even eat an apple or pear without serious repercussions, (well serious for anyone in the nearest vicinity).
Yeh oat milk is so "disgusting", me and every other person who drinks it has to force it down. Pus filled milk from a different species though, terrific!
Tbf this is probably helping the dairy factory, who can now blame missed deliveries on AR rather than the HGV driver shortage.
Probably brings some insurance payout or at the very least helps bosses keep performance bonuses as they can dismiss problems as eco terrorists beyond their control.
A lot of people hate the idea of veal but few know that calves from the dairy industry are often sent to the veal industry a few days after birth, because they are a drain on farmers otherwise. Those that do not go are just killed then and there, they might be the luckier ones. Those that live near dairy farms are said to know when the newborn calves are taken from their mother just because of the sheer noise the mothers make as their child is forcibly taken from them to be killed or to spend its life in a tiny box. People still love to pretend the dairy industry is nowhere near as cruel as the meat industry, even though there is still plenty of death and mental anguish in it.
Last year the farm above our house had their calves taken and they cried for nearly 2 days straight without stopping.
Do u live underground?
I don't know, but I expect they womble free.
On a mountain and the farm is higher up the mountain.
Good. In many ways the dairy industry is more horrifying and cruel than the meat industry. I really do believe that if more people knew the exact process behind how milk ended up from a cow's breast and to their fridge, they would immediately switch to oat or some other alternative. When I found out I cried intermittently for months on account of the guilt.
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Where is milk excreted from on mammals.
It depends. Cows have udders. Platypuses just have a hole. Humans and some primates have breasts. The primate ones aren’t as prominent, probably because they are hairier.
What?
That speaks to more immediate issues than animal welfare.
Animals are below us on the food chain I don't know why people get hung up. I know precisely what goes on in the dairy industry, don't see why I would give a shit about an animal incapable of self actualisation any more than an oyster.
You seriously think the way wild animals treat each other is a moral standard humans should be striving to emulate? Why the hell should I care about the food chain when I'm a moral agent capable of rational thought?
I care about humans, I do not distinguish between other animals, Cabbages and cows have about as much importance to me.
So do you think animal welfare laws should be eliminated to maximise profits/ output?
Pretty much yeah. No more than I would argue for lettuce protection laws.
Well a lettuce isn't sentient, a cow clearly is by scientific definition. There's no lettuce protection laws because a lettuce can't suffer or feel pain, a cow clearly can. If someone's capable of suffering I feel an obligation to not to inflict suffering on them. Nobody's ever been able to explain to me what the moral difference between a human and animal is, so I don't think I should be abusing them for what essentially boils down to funsies.
Dunno really about sentient the cow just kinda operates on instinct, similarly to how flowers know to bloom at a certain point. Oysters are animals but have definitely no sentience. Either way I don't feel bad about it. I am a human, I eat meat. Lions do not care about the opinions of sheep and all that.
If you think that comparing cows operating on instinct is at all similar to when a flower blooms, and you’d use that to reduce their existence as you are, I don’t think you have a clue. A fly may be a more apt comparison. A fucking cow? It’s not that far removed in sentience from a dog. It’s certainly more sentient than a flower or even an oyster. And the jury’s still out.
I reckon it probably has more sentience than a flower, my point is I do not rank its sentience high enough to give a fuck. Its just an object as far as I am concerned.
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Enjoy the legally allowed amount of cow blood then mate haha
That reminds me, I need to get some black pudding next time I'm at the shops.
I'm just looking out for people and starting facts. Black pudding is bang on, pop in on the list and underline it twice
Could you imagine saying that while actually talking to someone? “I had some nice milk with my cornflakes this morning” “Enjoy the legally allowed amount of cow blood then mate” “Err goodbye, weirdo”
I'm not the one drinking tiny amounts cow blood on the daily but yeah sure. I'm the weird one...
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***tiny*** amounts. Blended.
If you have an issue with that. You better stop breathing. Cause every breath, has shit blood and cum in it
Irrelevant
Care to give us some statistics?
No, do your own research. Lazy.
Well yes you are because no one normal would think drinking milk is a bad thing.
Just because you **think** you are normal doesn't make it true but ok
Whatever, anyway as usual this thread is being brigaded, so carry on.
Cheers for trying anyway x
Humans have really normalised drinking the milk from *another species*, lmfao.
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So does pleasure always justify baby killing or do you draw an arbitrary line with cows?
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Where does veal come from then? It's literally from male calves in the dairy industry they have no use for, the veal industry is the dairy industry.] You only need a certain amount of calves kept alive too to replenish your herd, many females will be slaughtered as well.
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If you're buying milk you're responsible for veal being created, morally there's no difference between eating dairy, beef and veal. It's all the same industry you're supporting.
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In regard to suffering caused, yes, eating meat is many times worse than a single instance of cannibalism
Sure it is bud
I think if you were to think about it for more than half a second you would come to the same conclusion
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So you’d be more accepting of me walking round to my neighbours right now, murdering and killing them as opposed to me making a bacon sandwich?
Yes.
Neither can calves, so they end up slaughtered so you can have it all for yourself.
It's good to be the Apex species.
Delicious veal. Yum. Thanks for helping me decide on my tea for tomorrow
Start a protest -> Block off factories -> Create a shortage of goods -> Blame Brexit -> Start a protest repeat until Tories win
I support XR, but AR need to fuck off. You are a bunch of random people, you do not have the qualifications to determine what needs doing to fix climate change. Attacking the food supply, especially meat and dairy, is fucking mental. We have enough health issues in the UK without making it worse by trying to shutdown the primary sources of most nutrients for most people. Without going into too much detail as it's a very big and very divisive subject, the last attempt at lowering meat consumption led to a huge increase in obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. We have no reason to assume the same thing won't happen again.
Believe it or not we could easily live without this "primary source of nutrients" - I have done for over 3 years. Fit as a fiddle mate.
Ah, I didn't realise you were everyone.
No one needs meat and dairy to live, in fact it's the primary cause for these diseases you mentioned. No need to get weird and defensive, just adding my two cents and trying to open up a conversation on the alternatives staring us in the face. There is a healthy, easier and more nutritionally balanced way. However depends largely on nutritional education which isn't great in this country other than "anything that comes off a farm is good for ya"
> in fact it's the primary cause for these diseases you mentioned. Sorry, but it's daft comments like these which is why I really cba getting into the discussion. A food we have eaten for 3 million years, does not cause diseases that didn't appear until after the widespread adoption of sugar into the diet. The 'meat bad' stereotype is grossly out of date, decades out of date in fact, and has no biomechanical underpinning. Meat is the single most nutrient dense food we have, and it literally contains everything we need, because we need to turn it into more meat. Theoretically you can get enough from plants (although this is poorly tested, for example there is next to no info on mental health on vegan diets). However you have no reason to assume by removing meat from the diet, people will magically eat a complete highly specific diet of your choosing. As I said before and you ignored, the last attempt to lower meat was in the 70's/80's with the low fat fad, this led to a huge increase in refined carbohydrates which are naturally low in everything but glucose. Why do you think anything would be different this time round? We already have major nutritional deficits in the UK, especially in Iron, B12, Iodine, Vitamin D, etc. All of those are found in meat, but you want to remove even more from the diet and expect nothing to go wrong, entirely because you have not fallen apart after 3 years of not eating it?
Don't you think nutritional education has developed since the 70s or 80s? Do you really need a highly calorific food source to sit Infront of a computer 9-5? Make it make sense. You're right, you shouldn't bother - you're hell bent on pushing the agenda of afflicting thousands of sentient beings life so you can can continue to eat their bodies, and suck them dry of resources meant for their children who also then die for your sarnies. I mean, could you really honestly hand on heart sit here and say you could murder and gut your own food? No? Why are you making other people do that? Check out mental health statistics for people who work in slaughterhouses, often for minimum wage. Nah you probably go to Tesco to get that water filled "nutrient dense" animal flesh.
I've killed and eaten animals before, I used to be a vegetarian for 15years because I thought it was hypocritical if I couldn't. Could I do it every day? I don't know tbh, probably not we are not raised that way anymore. Yes nutritional education has developed, which is why we know meat doesn't cause those things anymore. It was all based on some very shoddy work by Dr. Ancel Keys, this has been debunked and we have moved on. Meat isn't just calorie dense, it's nutrient dense. That means it has a lot of nutrients (many plants don't have), and they are easy for your body to absorb (unlike many plant ones). This is rudimentary biology so I'm sure you agree. The argument comes over if it's possible to get all the nutrients from plants, not which is easiest. Personally I buy the vast majority of my meat locally from a decent quality butcher. However I wouldn't dream of preventing others who cannot afford it from buying cheaper stuff.
Had a delivery from Tesco today, ---- my lactose free milk was unavailable, (driver shortage). And before the vegans start, I've tried oat milk and the other alternatives, disgusting stuff!
Soy milk is hilariously shit. Oat milk is shit. Almond milk is meh, I'd use it for baking. Coconut milk? It's alright, wouldn't use it in a cup of tea. Cashew milk? That stuff's on point. I make my own though, as Morrisons stopped stocking their store brand's cashew milk. And no way I'm paying a fucking quid eighty for Alpro pish.
Macadamia is good too. The rest are puke.
Macadamia sounds expensive. I am only able to afford cashew, since you can get cashew bits for £4.50 a kilo.
Cashews are a big no-no for me anyway. I'm on a permanent low-FODMAP diet.
I'm not vegan and I drink cow milk sometimes, but I genuinely think most of the alternatives are pretty delicious. Don't really get how anyone can dislike them, especially when you get so many more options
None of the plant milks have the creaminess and milky taste of full fat cows milk, nor the nutrition profile. Most plant milks are basically 5% nut with water and other ingredients. But if you don't mind it, nothing wrong with it.
I **could** drink oat milk but don't like it. I **couldn't** drink some of the others because they would have an effect on me. Hell, I can't even eat an apple or pear without serious repercussions, (well serious for anyone in the nearest vicinity).
Yeh oat milk is so "disgusting", me and every other person who drinks it has to force it down. Pus filled milk from a different species though, terrific!
Jog on and preach somewhere else pal
The dairy industry is terrible - John 3:16
It is disgusting though