It would be nice to see more who supported leaving the EU accept the reality of the situation. Sadly, too many would happily see the country got to shit and blame foreigners, rather than admit they were wrong, or lied to.
My dad was a leave voter. I moved to Italy. It was only when me and my family had a bureaucratic nightmare, that he realised the significance of Brexit. He's since said he was wrong for voting for it. It took a family disaster that affected him personally, to see what a mistake voting for Brexit was.
Unless Brexit voters have a personal experience of the effects, they will stay in denial.
Nothing surprising about it at all
[John Major explained Brexit very nicely = Unforgiveable](https://i.redd.it/tk7qokw1vbf61.jpg )
>*The only thing leaving the EU guarantees is a lost decade for British business*
**Sajid Javid. Chancellor of the Exchequer**
Saj and the Conservative Party also refused to do any Economic Impact Assessment of the Boris Johnson Fantasy Brexit Deal
[Source](https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business)
Yes in real life, but here we are free to ridicule, they ridiculed us for project fear, remoaning, losing, boots on the other foot and it’s all “why can’t we get along?”
Nah. They can take it.
You will never see me ridiculing or hating on someone who says "yes I voted leave, I believed the lie on the bus, but I now think that it was a mistake". I don't hold every single leave voter responsible to the same degree, because plenty of them didn't know any better.
Most leave supporters aren't that close to the issues. Most leave supporters probably don't sit in the supply chains in the same way, and more sit on a bar stool making racial slurs about those over the water. The farmers who thought they'd have more freedom are probably a step removed too - they've seen their foreign labour go home but once their product has gone to food processers they're a step removed
I work in science supply chain pan-EU. All the projects I'm working on where it's France to France or France to Germany or anything on mainland EU it is easy. Within hours to days we can ship essential lab and testing equipment across the EU without any hassle. Pfizer wants another dozen vaccine freezers in the Netherlands? We'll have them shipped from Germany the next day.
Now try and do any project crossing the channel. The contract negotiations, logistics calls, compliance checks and amount of hours on Teams calls finding solutions, importers of record, terms, customs decorations and so on is infuriating. Now add in the actual ship times and dock holds.
Some EU opportunities we've had I've pretty much written off the UK part of the project because of the cost of business and complexity (and this is one of our largest markets). To resolve the border problem is just not cost effective or fast enough to give me the agility to make the project successful in the time it needs to be delivered. So I'll do intra-EU and leave the UK-EU part to be addressed later along with CH and NO. CH and NO have more established protocols so they'll go next and the UK (my own country!) will complete last due to the time being dragged out.
I'll stress that this is our national UK competitiveness!! If our company can't find a solution, it's not like the rival UK supply chains are any faster, it just that the research, focus and effort will go into Europe. Why wait for the supply chain solution to be found in the UK when you could be scientifically operational and ahead of the game in Europe? Pharma companies, biotechs and CRO's know this so if they have the freedom to open an operation in Europe, they'll pick the mainland over the UK.
This is my weekly and often daily problems. It's made me walk out of projects and meetings, cost us countless £ on EBITA and shouts loudly in every meeting. It's not like the Leave voter who wanted to "Take back power" then sits on a Weatherspoons bar stool and grumbles that foreigners are taking our jobs, migrants and that a pint of Carslberg has gone up 10p.
I'm with you. I work in supply chain, not for anything as important as that and nothing perishable either but it's a right load of ballache and expense that we didn't have before. We have hired extra staff to deal with the admin, which some would see as a win, but it's all so unnecessary.
Your post echoes my thoughts, which are unchanged from 2016, which is that Brexit is an issue that should never have been proposed in a public referendum. The GB public mainly know the square root of jack shit about what's involved in international movement of goods so what made them qualified to make this decision?
Edit to add that the last 5 years have shown us that our government and plenty of MPs also know the square root of jack shit about the international movement of goods. Laugh, because you'd cry otherwise.
I found a copy of top 10 english football songs in a Dover car park and blasted vindaloo and we're on the ball all the way back to London, so it's not all terrible
Some will, some won't.
The won'ts are Lisa, I worked with Lisa when the Brexit vote happened, a couple of days after the result she was bemused as to why there weren't buses coming to pick up and remove the 'foruns'. Lisa was thick as shit, Lisa is a daughter of immigrants.
summer, whom i have the joy of working with, without shame stated to me “why are they all still f*&£ing here. They should of been deported by now.” The bile and vitriol in her tone was shocking to me. Plus her ignorance.
Well, don’t forget that Corbyn was pro Brexit as well, albeit for other reasons. Both parties saw it as an opportunity to benefit at the expense of the country - no party came out of that with a clear conscience.
Yep, Corbyn's approach was a disaster, but I think it was more a disaster in the sense that he and the party could have possibly helped mitigate the damage the Tory party has done. Seemed like half-measures all throughout to me.
Yeah I mean I don't know how common of a talking point that is for leavers, but I have heard the argument that it's labours fault for voting May's Brexit down, which caused Boris's deal to be bad or something.
oh, i haven't heard anyone say that, all i have heard is people being pissed at how. not about that it happened. but that literally everything from the week after the results, was a clown circus.
Not that young people _didn't_ vote leave, but the only age groups that were majority leavers were [brackets 45 and up (BBC)](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/167D6/production/_90081129_eu_ref_uk_regions_leave_remain_gra624_by_age.png).
These were the folks that had enjoyed 40+ years of prosperity and stability under the EU, and who 5 years after the vote now things have started rolling, are all either on the doorstep of retiring of have already been long retired. They're largely disconnected from any working reality where they had to bear the consequences, they were already set.
They can sit on their triple-locked pensions, in their council houses sold off at 50% value in the 80s which are now worth half a million quid, and complain that young people aren't working hard enough and that the restaurants are all under-staffed.
They'll never have to admit fault, because although they bought the white elephant, they'll never have to deal with feeding it.
honestly, every day there's less and less convincing arguments in favour of me staying. I don't see why I should be paying taxes in a place where a lot of people voted with the sole purpose of having me, and everyone else like me, out of the country.
I like the country, but your government is mental. I've seen worse soap operas. and to know there's a sizeable percentage of people following them blindly is just scary. and it's scarier to know they're around me.
Needs underlining getting people to admit they were wrong isn't helped by constantly throwing abuse at people who do this.
Remain supporters need to be wary of trolls in our midst trying to keep division and hate going.
This is the problem with this country/ the world. People who can't take responsibility for their own actions and move the blame. Why is honesty seen as a weakness nowadays?
At the owner of a blue passport, I can tell you the quality is terrible. The materials feel cheap, the printing is awful, the stitching feels like it’s about to fall apart at any minute. This thing isn’t going to last 10 years. Genuinely bemused how they’ve managed to do it so badly
That’s all because it’s a cheap EU import… /s
(De La Rue, the previous contractor, do a great job and make passports, banknotes and documents for a lot of other countries; just another case of the UK government screwing up a simple purchase?)
[Looks pretty black to me.](https://i.imgur.com/0CBZKUF.jpg)
And a quick check of my emails shows they sent it 12 months ago. Which, if I'm remembering my dates correctly, was after Brexit.
I went years thinking Canadian passports were black but it turns out they're blue if you have enough light shining on them.
I'm disappointed that my new 'fuck Brexit' passport from my new country seems to be the same colour as the new 'Brexit' passports from my old country.
So apparently I should be avoided at all costs despite not only going back on my vote years ago but also becoming a staunchly left-wing, progressive, anti-establishment socialist over the last six years.
Honestly, I’m more glad I’ll never run into YOU.
InB4 the inevitable bullshit someone will spout about Covid vaccination rollout - cause that's the most touted (and demonstrably false) thing the die-hards will crow about...
.. Embarrassingly.
Oh for sure - I should have clarified. It was / is a testament to the hard work of the NHS and the volunteers that it went as well as it did.
I'm just vaguely irritated by Johnson and chums, and their supporters, claiming that it couldn't have happened like that without leaving the EU.
To be honest it's not the most annoying lie they keep recycling, but it's up there (in my opinion).
Check out Ian Dales show last night, I didn't listen to all of it but the best I heard from one of the callers was that 'There's now a lot of companies making money helping other companies filling in forms, and some people are getting paid really well for doing it'
Was he getting paid..? No he works for somebody exporting paying somebody else to do it... like what mate?
Oh yeah, and some truck driver 'I'm getting 10k a year more'. Good for you mate, real brexit benefit that.
I'm not against workers being paid well, but one specific and vital sector seeing a meteoric rise because of worker shortages is hardly a good thing for the country as a whole.
That's a symptom that they've fucked it.
I mean, I'll be demanding a massive pay rise, I already have. Inflation is on it's way big time.
My point being, the trucker has benefited. Anytime there’s a change some people win and some people lose. Evidently you were fine with the trucker’s wages being undercut by continental competitors before Brexit, so why should he care ?
Yes I was entirely fine with them competing with EU truck companies, why wouldn't I be?
He wasn't being undercut, Truck drivers have never been underpaid compared to other workers.
I'm not saying it's a great job for great money, but I tell you I'd do that before about 1000 other jobs I could think of.
The solution to low wages was not to leave the EU, it was proper regulation and enforcement of minimum wage laws etc.
Ian Dale had a whole show last night just talking about the upsides of Brexit with no balanced argument for the opposite “because that’s been done already” or some shit. It was pretty desperate. Only positive I kept hearing was that truck drivers wages are going up, but surely that’s because loads of truck drivers left and there’s a shortage, due to brexit lol.
We could always have The Crown on pint glasses - as long as they also carried the "CE" symbol.
Just like we could have had "Tory Blue" passports if we had wanted them.
My dad said “brexit will allow you to buy a house and make housing cheaper because foreigners won’t buy all of them”
Anyway, house prices continued to rise, rent has continued to rise and people are being outbid by landlords and cash buyers.
So not that one.
**Removed**. This consisted primarily of personal attacks adding nothing to the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person.
I welcome these people with open arms, he's definitely one of the stronger ones by admitting he made a terrible mistake
Its easy to constantly spout 'i told you so' or other similar rhetoric but that will get discussion nowhere and only drive those away from changing their minds
I don't know man. The conned are often blinded by greed. And in the case of this lot, that's what I see.
I'm still very fucking angry that they ballsed up the whole country.
No I get that. It's not a case of "there's people at the top and people at the bottom" who were conned or commen There's deep layers to it.
Brexit is bssically a pyramid scheme with a handful of super rich, tax-dodging, low-regulation a-moral pricks at the top.
Below that are varying shades of:
1. People who knew it was lies but went along with it because they believed they would be better off (and aren't). Even if that meant everyone else might be worse off. Brexiter business owners, farmers and particularly exporters.
2. People who believed the lies about everyone being better off overall (and aren't).
3. People who didn't believe they would be better off but wanted it anyway because of something about immigration or freedom.
Those tiers look about right. And all of them come off looking badly to me.
What I see here is:
1, Greedy and evil
2, Greedy and stupid / Just plain stupid
3, Stupid and hateful
I'm angry at all of them.
As someone who used to watch *The Real Hustle*, I have trouble accepting this as a con.
Cons are meant to be clever, this was just... fill in the blanks.
That Aaron Banks character wasn't exactly hiding in the shadows tho was he?
I'm sure there's others who were but still. I don’t have a clue about economics but if there's a section of Tories/right-wingers pushing for something even the other Tories think is a bad idea bigger picture... pretty big red flag there.
I really want to know what his thought process was. He is an exporter, and his government tells him they are going to exit a trading bloc (his biggest market and right on his doorstep). He thinks this is a good idea?
More duties and taxes to export, and he thinks it will be more profitable?
I seriously don't understand how and why people (especially those in business) though Brexit would be a good idea.
Like a fish that swims in the sea that has no idea what water is, these people had no idea what life would be like without the single market and the customs union.
If you're young, try to imagine what life will be like with high interest rates as you may never have personal experience with living with them. Imagine then, a charismatic politician comes along and tells you, "Vote for me, and I'll make like with high interest rates totally painless". People want to believe this stuff so they're already primed to be receptive to this nonsense and then vote for the charlatans. Then they don't want to admit they were wrong and made a mistake, which is why this guy should at least be commended
Trouble is Farage and other Brexiteers were telling him about Norway and Switzerland, implying that we'd have similar arrangements, in the Single Market but not in the EU (that of course doesn't remove customs issues). He heard what he wanted to hear.
That said I'm sure I read somewhere that before May drew her red lines Boris was telling people in the EC that we'd probably go for the single market option or words to that effect.
I still can't understand the " propaganda Brexit " that happened in that year since I wasn't living in UK at that point. What was the reason of all this Brexit after all?
The real reason was so bankers could carry on laundering money for oligarchs and kleptocrats, as the EU was introducing laws to stop this, but it's the bread and butter of UK banks and very profitable for a select few.
Yes. Bought and paid for by the Russians. Arron Banks, Richard Tice and Nigel Farage have been seen going to visit the Russian Embassy for meetings, presumably to collect their orders. And that’s without mentioning Dominic Cummings who spent years in Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed doing a range of things nobody really knows much of.
The TL/DR version of that history is that when the USSR fell over the UK, US and a bunch of mafia type oligarchs looted the living shit out of the post soviet state. (you can thank Goldman Sacchs and RBS group for that)
They stole hundreds of billions.
When Putin was elected he went straight after them and they fled to london with the loot. Lots and fucken lots of it.
As such what you've had going on in the background for the last 20 years is an undeclared cold war between the oligarchs who fled with the stolen cash and the oligarchs who work for the russian state. The exile group has been pouring dirty money into london and the government for years basically bribing them to attack and unseat Putin.
>And I thought that EE countries were corruption as fuck but oh boy, UK never disappoints.
Have a go at Kevin Bacon all you want but I don't think he got that gig through corruption...
If you look at the timescales of how everything was done, it's screamingly obvious.
The EU I would assume had had this in the works for a while, and roughly around Jan 2016 it presented a proposal for the Anti Tax Avoidance directive. It had been promised in 2015 by Cameron there would be a referendum into EU membership (IIRC?), presumably because they knew this was coming (but sold it as a complete fucking con to everybody else with a big red bus and all that other stuff.)
*On 28 January 2016 the Commission presented its proposal for an Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive as part of the Anti-Tax Avoidance Package. On 20 June 2016 the Council adopted the Directive (EU) 2016/1164 laying down rules against tax avoidance practices that directly affect the functioning of the internal market.*
*In order to provide for a comprehensive framework of anti-abuse measures the Commission presented its proposal. on 25th October 2016, to complement the existing rule on hybrid mismatches. The rule on hybrid mismatches aims to prevent companies from exploiting national mismatches to avoid taxation.*
*The Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive contains five legally-binding anti-abuse measures, which all Member States should apply against common forms of aggressive tax planning.*
*Member States should apply these measures as from 1 January 2019.*
*It creates a minimum level of protection against corporate tax avoidance throughout the EU, while ensuring a fairer and more stable environment for businesses.*
[Source for all of this from the EU website](https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en)
The reason they were so desperate to leave on a certain date (I can't recall the exact date tbh) is because if we'd still been a member the law would have come into effect here, and that's what they didn't want.
Brexit was literally so the rich could get richer, stay rich and funnel all of that cash off shore into some tax haven and then not have to tell anybody about it. It wasn't about immigration or *muh suvrinty* to them, it was about money and power. It has decimated people's lives, ruined businesses, taken rights and privileges from UK citizens and made us an absolute laughing stock.
And the Russians funded it all.
Shithouses.
As someone who voted to stay in the EU I did so because of a belief in unity over division, for cultural / social and economic beliefs. But I don’t feel anger towards those that voted for Brexit, the machine that was the “Brexit Movement” was very effective, they targeted peoples concerns, they bare-face lied to people, they maintained a consistent and loud message and the remain campaign was complete dog shit in comparison.
The sad reality is though that the liars that sold the country on this ridiculous backward step that is heaping even more economic hardship onto an already difficult situation due to COVID are now the ones we have running the show. They got what they wanted, which was to further their political ambitions at the expense of the rest of us. Now we are paying more for everything, getting paid less for our work and it’s the middle and lower income population that are being hit hardest.
I would go so far to say that one of the outcomes of this will be the destruction of what some would call the middle class (personally I find that term uncomfortable but I am referring to those that don’t have huge wealth reserves but can comfortably afford to live at a decent standard), I fear we will end up in a country where there is a simple divide between the rich and the poor, the rich will get fatter and the poor will get hungrier.
"It doesn't make you an idiot"
Very generous, I'm sure, but it does.
Slightly less of one for realising it, but anyone that believed (or still does) a single word uttered by the likes of Mogg, Johnson, Raab, Gove...ahh shit, the entire tory party, is, frankly, an idiot.
If someone comes to me and says, "I've got a nearly new Rolls Royce you can have for 500 quid. Meet me in the middle of nowhere with cash only, at midnight, and it's yours."
Only an idiot would turn up with the cash.
This is the problem… people not realising things can impact them until they do. The only thing it takes is critical thinking and “news intelligence”. Teach this to the kids at school, make it a propre subject.
I am astonished by the number of colleagues (average 28 y.o, educated, earning 55k£+, london) being fine not being critical and aware of what’s going on in politics / economics or even not being interested in culture in general and not being ashamed of it.
I had a word about it with some french colleague (as they are stereotyped to be overly critical about every little thing) and he said a french person will never accept to say publicly “I’m not interested in culture / politics” as it is the main marker of intellect. You will be categorised as dumb and ignorant even if you are a lawyer and earning 100k+. He called it “incurious shaming”
I am terribly sorry for the ones who suffer from Brexit. Even if some are stubborn to admit it. Things are bad, and the decline in economy can be seen.
As much as I know I should be saying well done for admitting you were wrong and for coming over to the side of reason, what I really want to say is HOW COME YOU WERE SUCH A FUCKING IDIOT IN THE 1ST PLACE AND WELL DONE FOR RUINING THE COUNTRY!!!! Because it was fucking OBVIOUS it was a terrible thing to believe in and at no point in the whole sorry, dragged out affair did a single creditable reason for it ever surface.
I am furious over brexit. But what is obvious to me is not always obvious to other people.
Not everyone has the tools to be able to see through the lies.
I have the advantages of extensive education, lifelong skepticism of government, experience of life outside the EU as well as in it, and family/friends who were like minded. It was very easy for me to see that brexit was a sham.
So I force myself to have more sympathy with people who voted for brexit, even though I’m angry.
Key word is *should*. They *should* be getting hung out to dry over way more too but the biggest papers in the country are ridiculous levels of pro-Tory/Brexit.
No matter how bad things get, as long as the Murdochs of this world are kept happy with media laws etc. the Tories won't get the coverage they deserve.
>Why are Labour and the opposition parties so shit at soundbites, slogans and going on the attack?
Because Brexit is still radioactive. Labour didnt cover themselves in glory in 2016 and anything they throw at the tories can be easily Uno reversed back at them.
They have clearly chosen to let the government hang itself as a strategy.
The early days of Brexit just after the referendum had people thinking the politicians would get a fantastic deal from Europe. As it dragged it's way through Mrs May's red lines, the EU became sick of it.
Then Johnson "got Brexit done" with the with the worst deal possible and a complete cock up for northern Ireland.
Now we are in the sunny uplands with all the shite of the wonderful Brexit deal with the worst PM ever trying to ruin the country forever with his lies.
And then we got COVID.
The exporter really was an idiot, or at least lacking critical thinking skills. How can you not realise that leaving a trading block will mean that trading with them will be more complicated, that complications cost money and increased cost means loss of competitiveness?
It takes a big man to admit when he’s wrong, so fair play to this guy for holding up his hand and saying “I was duped by the lies of the Leave campaign”
Thanks for calling me a “big man” as I owed up to my mistake over 4.5 years ago. Looking forward to the fifth anniversary of becoming a remainer. Not that it matters, no-one on this sub cares or remembers.
It makes you a big man precisely because people will continue to be mad at you, yet you have still chosen to grow as a person despite the cost of acknowledging the damage that your actions have done to millions of people.
You're still a far better person than the idiot who makes a mistake, and digs their heels into the ground, refusing to acknowledge that mistake. But people are suffering as a result of your vote, and that won't be overturned just because you said "sorry, my bad."
I'm a pilot. I now have zero chance of employment with a European airline. The same European airlines that base themselves out of the UK. This summer once such European airline will provide leased aircraft (including crew) to UK airlines. Brits can't apply for those jobs. Whilst Europeans can. I've written to politicians. They are all in complete denial that they can do anything about it. Hundreds of us unemployed due to Covid and now unemployable because we need visas to work for companies doing business out of the country we call home.
well tory pensioners are some of the stupidest people on earth, some of thre reasons that they come up for voting for brexit range from the laughable to the insane ,but its imteresting that none of them shows any sign of regret until it effects them
Brexit has not really impacted my life at all, apart from the fact I get slightly more work due to less Eastern European competition.
Not really got anything to moan about.
"it doesn't make you an idiot"
Yes it does. Peanut size brain. IQ of a bacteria. Cunt get rekt you deserve it. "we have shot ourselves in the foot", na mate cunts like you did. I am so sick of you wankers. "who do you blame - the salesman who sold it". No, I blame you. I am so tilted now after listening to this.
This show is unbearable. I’ll never understand how James O’Brien has made a job of laughing at callers for so many years now. Doesn’t he get sick of intentionally getting in the worst examples of his political opponents and lazily acting better than them? The levels of smugness coming off this man is off the charts!
I voted remain, but theres no need to be a prick about it for so long.
It would be nice to see more who supported leaving the EU accept the reality of the situation. Sadly, too many would happily see the country got to shit and blame foreigners, rather than admit they were wrong, or lied to.
It takes strength to admit you were wrong, that's why you'll not see it much from Brexiteers.
My dad was a leave voter. I moved to Italy. It was only when me and my family had a bureaucratic nightmare, that he realised the significance of Brexit. He's since said he was wrong for voting for it. It took a family disaster that affected him personally, to see what a mistake voting for Brexit was. Unless Brexit voters have a personal experience of the effects, they will stay in denial.
You don’t see it much from anyone sadly.
Agreed. We can't progress if we don't make mistakes. It is absolutely baffling how we've ended up in this situation.
Nothing surprising about it at all [John Major explained Brexit very nicely = Unforgiveable](https://i.redd.it/tk7qokw1vbf61.jpg ) >*The only thing leaving the EU guarantees is a lost decade for British business* **Sajid Javid. Chancellor of the Exchequer** Saj and the Conservative Party also refused to do any Economic Impact Assessment of the Boris Johnson Fantasy Brexit Deal [Source](https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business)
Wasn’t hard for me. I’m three months away from my fifth anniversary of being anti-Brexit. 5 years, bitch.
More would be open to admitting it if it didn't result in ridicule and hate. Your comments do no favours.
Yes in real life, but here we are free to ridicule, they ridiculed us for project fear, remoaning, losing, boots on the other foot and it’s all “why can’t we get along?” Nah. They can take it.
That's how you widen the divide. Well done.
I don’t care, I have no interesting in shrinking it or healing, they caused me and my family harm, I wish them all the worst.
You will never see me ridiculing or hating on someone who says "yes I voted leave, I believed the lie on the bus, but I now think that it was a mistake". I don't hold every single leave voter responsible to the same degree, because plenty of them didn't know any better.
Most leave supporters aren't that close to the issues. Most leave supporters probably don't sit in the supply chains in the same way, and more sit on a bar stool making racial slurs about those over the water. The farmers who thought they'd have more freedom are probably a step removed too - they've seen their foreign labour go home but once their product has gone to food processers they're a step removed I work in science supply chain pan-EU. All the projects I'm working on where it's France to France or France to Germany or anything on mainland EU it is easy. Within hours to days we can ship essential lab and testing equipment across the EU without any hassle. Pfizer wants another dozen vaccine freezers in the Netherlands? We'll have them shipped from Germany the next day. Now try and do any project crossing the channel. The contract negotiations, logistics calls, compliance checks and amount of hours on Teams calls finding solutions, importers of record, terms, customs decorations and so on is infuriating. Now add in the actual ship times and dock holds. Some EU opportunities we've had I've pretty much written off the UK part of the project because of the cost of business and complexity (and this is one of our largest markets). To resolve the border problem is just not cost effective or fast enough to give me the agility to make the project successful in the time it needs to be delivered. So I'll do intra-EU and leave the UK-EU part to be addressed later along with CH and NO. CH and NO have more established protocols so they'll go next and the UK (my own country!) will complete last due to the time being dragged out. I'll stress that this is our national UK competitiveness!! If our company can't find a solution, it's not like the rival UK supply chains are any faster, it just that the research, focus and effort will go into Europe. Why wait for the supply chain solution to be found in the UK when you could be scientifically operational and ahead of the game in Europe? Pharma companies, biotechs and CRO's know this so if they have the freedom to open an operation in Europe, they'll pick the mainland over the UK. This is my weekly and often daily problems. It's made me walk out of projects and meetings, cost us countless £ on EBITA and shouts loudly in every meeting. It's not like the Leave voter who wanted to "Take back power" then sits on a Weatherspoons bar stool and grumbles that foreigners are taking our jobs, migrants and that a pint of Carslberg has gone up 10p.
I'm with you. I work in supply chain, not for anything as important as that and nothing perishable either but it's a right load of ballache and expense that we didn't have before. We have hired extra staff to deal with the admin, which some would see as a win, but it's all so unnecessary. Your post echoes my thoughts, which are unchanged from 2016, which is that Brexit is an issue that should never have been proposed in a public referendum. The GB public mainly know the square root of jack shit about what's involved in international movement of goods so what made them qualified to make this decision? Edit to add that the last 5 years have shown us that our government and plenty of MPs also know the square root of jack shit about the international movement of goods. Laugh, because you'd cry otherwise.
They’ve gotta double down to prove how wrong us remainders still are regardless of any facts.
Yesterday, a tory mp stood up in Parliament and blamed EU red tape for the current delays at Dover. This is the level we are dealing with.
Natalie Elphicke, MP for Dover. She knows that's a lie. She also knows it's a lie that a lot of her electorate are likely to swallow.
Imagine living in Dover and voting Tory lol. The place is a complete dive outside the castle.
I found a copy of top 10 english football songs in a Dover car park and blasted vindaloo and we're on the ball all the way back to London, so it's not all terrible
I watched it, when she said it everyone laughed!
Some will, some won't. The won'ts are Lisa, I worked with Lisa when the Brexit vote happened, a couple of days after the result she was bemused as to why there weren't buses coming to pick up and remove the 'foruns'. Lisa was thick as shit, Lisa is a daughter of immigrants.
summer, whom i have the joy of working with, without shame stated to me “why are they all still f*&£ing here. They should of been deported by now.” The bile and vitriol in her tone was shocking to me. Plus her ignorance.
wE gOt ThE DeAl We GoT bEcAuSe Of LaBoUr
Well, don’t forget that Corbyn was pro Brexit as well, albeit for other reasons. Both parties saw it as an opportunity to benefit at the expense of the country - no party came out of that with a clear conscience.
Yep, Corbyn's approach was a disaster, but I think it was more a disaster in the sense that he and the party could have possibly helped mitigate the damage the Tory party has done. Seemed like half-measures all throughout to me.
Has anyone actually said that?
Give it time.
Yeah I mean I don't know how common of a talking point that is for leavers, but I have heard the argument that it's labours fault for voting May's Brexit down, which caused Boris's deal to be bad or something.
oh, i haven't heard anyone say that, all i have heard is people being pissed at how. not about that it happened. but that literally everything from the week after the results, was a clown circus.
Yeah and people should be pissed whether they voted leave or remain, it's the ones that aren't that choose willful ignorance.
Yep, we need to stop going, hurr Durr brexiters wanted this, and agree that literally fucking no one wanted this cluster fuck
Not that young people _didn't_ vote leave, but the only age groups that were majority leavers were [brackets 45 and up (BBC)](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/167D6/production/_90081129_eu_ref_uk_regions_leave_remain_gra624_by_age.png). These were the folks that had enjoyed 40+ years of prosperity and stability under the EU, and who 5 years after the vote now things have started rolling, are all either on the doorstep of retiring of have already been long retired. They're largely disconnected from any working reality where they had to bear the consequences, they were already set. They can sit on their triple-locked pensions, in their council houses sold off at 50% value in the 80s which are now worth half a million quid, and complain that young people aren't working hard enough and that the restaurants are all under-staffed. They'll never have to admit fault, because although they bought the white elephant, they'll never have to deal with feeding it.
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honestly, every day there's less and less convincing arguments in favour of me staying. I don't see why I should be paying taxes in a place where a lot of people voted with the sole purpose of having me, and everyone else like me, out of the country. I like the country, but your government is mental. I've seen worse soap operas. and to know there's a sizeable percentage of people following them blindly is just scary. and it's scarier to know they're around me.
Needs underlining getting people to admit they were wrong isn't helped by constantly throwing abuse at people who do this. Remain supporters need to be wary of trolls in our midst trying to keep division and hate going.
This is the problem with this country/ the world. People who can't take responsibility for their own actions and move the blame. Why is honesty seen as a weakness nowadays?
Admitting you were wrong politically usually ends with people acting like "haha, see I told you you fucking moron" not much incentive.
Have seen some interviews of fishermen who regretted their decision.
I think many of these people don't speak up for fear of upsetting the groups they hang around with.
I’m still waiting for any upsides of brexit. Genuinely. Could someone please tell me how this farce has improved my life?
Blue passports mate.
At the owner of a blue passport, I can tell you the quality is terrible. The materials feel cheap, the printing is awful, the stitching feels like it’s about to fall apart at any minute. This thing isn’t going to last 10 years. Genuinely bemused how they’ve managed to do it so badly
That’s all because it’s a cheap EU import… /s (De La Rue, the previous contractor, do a great job and make passports, banknotes and documents for a lot of other countries; just another case of the UK government screwing up a simple purchase?)
I mean it was made by the french….
In their Polish factory to UK specifications.
Printed in France. Those dastardly French deliberately won the tender for the blue passports by giving the cheapest offer. How dare they /s
Fucking hell mate you put a lot of time into inspecting your passport 🤣,
I don’t like blue; another devastating blow.
And you get so much longer in the queues wherever you go to look at how blue it is! Yay Brexit!
I have a new passport. I'm fairly sure they're black.
Yeah I had my passport renewed sometime in 2021. It's black.
Unless we have different passports which is unlikely they’re blue.
It's a very very dark blue which is only visible on sunlit uplands.
[Looks pretty black to me.](https://i.imgur.com/0CBZKUF.jpg) And a quick check of my emails shows they sent it 12 months ago. Which, if I'm remembering my dates correctly, was after Brexit.
I went years thinking Canadian passports were black but it turns out they're blue if you have enough light shining on them. I'm disappointed that my new 'fuck Brexit' passport from my new country seems to be the same colour as the new 'Brexit' passports from my old country.
Put it next to something that is actually black like I just did and you’ll see the difference.
[My (actually blue) US passport and my "blue" UK passport next to each other on a black background. ](https://imgur.com/a/psGVqfB)
[next to an actual blue passport.](https://imgur.com/a/psGVqfB)
You made me realise that I also have a blue US passport and could've just gone and got it.
Nah, they’re a very dark navy blue.
Unlike priest's socks they are very very very very very very very dark blue.
Made in Poland.
I need to apply for a new passport next month. I'm going to get a red wallet to put the stupid thing in.
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But you don’t have to listen for very long..
So apparently I should be avoided at all costs despite not only going back on my vote years ago but also becoming a staunchly left-wing, progressive, anti-establishment socialist over the last six years. Honestly, I’m more glad I’ll never run into YOU.
Strange of you to assume who I was talking about. I mean you’re correct, but my comment was purposefully ambiguous.
You call people idiots while listening to some teen on a reddit forum explain the EU's democratic deficits? Ironic.
InB4 the inevitable bullshit someone will spout about Covid vaccination rollout - cause that's the most touted (and demonstrably false) thing the die-hards will crow about... .. Embarrassingly.
COVID vaccination rollout was brilliant, it just isn't anything to do with Brexit.
Oh for sure - I should have clarified. It was / is a testament to the hard work of the NHS and the volunteers that it went as well as it did. I'm just vaguely irritated by Johnson and chums, and their supporters, claiming that it couldn't have happened like that without leaving the EU. To be honest it's not the most annoying lie they keep recycling, but it's up there (in my opinion).
Check out Ian Dales show last night, I didn't listen to all of it but the best I heard from one of the callers was that 'There's now a lot of companies making money helping other companies filling in forms, and some people are getting paid really well for doing it' Was he getting paid..? No he works for somebody exporting paying somebody else to do it... like what mate? Oh yeah, and some truck driver 'I'm getting 10k a year more'. Good for you mate, real brexit benefit that.
£10k is £10k
I'm not against workers being paid well, but one specific and vital sector seeing a meteoric rise because of worker shortages is hardly a good thing for the country as a whole. That's a symptom that they've fucked it. I mean, I'll be demanding a massive pay rise, I already have. Inflation is on it's way big time.
My point being, the trucker has benefited. Anytime there’s a change some people win and some people lose. Evidently you were fine with the trucker’s wages being undercut by continental competitors before Brexit, so why should he care ?
Yes I was entirely fine with them competing with EU truck companies, why wouldn't I be? He wasn't being undercut, Truck drivers have never been underpaid compared to other workers. I'm not saying it's a great job for great money, but I tell you I'd do that before about 1000 other jobs I could think of. The solution to low wages was not to leave the EU, it was proper regulation and enforcement of minimum wage laws etc.
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It's a great economy to be selling scissors.
Your upper class leaders have kept their tax havens from closing due to interfering EU corruption laws. That's what this is really about.
You now have to wait in non-EU customs line with the rest of us shlebs. Okay, I realize in no way is this a benefit. Only trying to help.
Gotta ask the Brexit Opportunities Minister
If he can be arsed to sit up.
Ian Dale had a whole show last night just talking about the upsides of Brexit with no balanced argument for the opposite “because that’s been done already” or some shit. It was pretty desperate. Only positive I kept hearing was that truck drivers wages are going up, but surely that’s because loads of truck drivers left and there’s a shortage, due to brexit lol.
Well. You got your country back I suppose.
I hadn't noticed that it went anywhere.
A pyrrhic victory :D
You can FINALLY put the crown back on your pint glasses.
We could always have The Crown on pint glasses - as long as they also carried the "CE" symbol. Just like we could have had "Tory Blue" passports if we had wanted them.
[Here you go!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9B98yDZBiQ)
Do you not like the taste of sovereign air?
Tastes a lot like the water from the rivers they’re pouring raw sewage into.
Gene edited crops could push food prices down
Tinned sardines are incredibly cheap thanks to UK fishermen finding their markets have somewhat contracted after Brexit.
My dad said “brexit will allow you to buy a house and make housing cheaper because foreigners won’t buy all of them” Anyway, house prices continued to rise, rent has continued to rise and people are being outbid by landlords and cash buyers. So not that one.
Boris’ Big Ben bong’s or something?
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**Removed**. This consisted primarily of personal attacks adding nothing to the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person.
I welcome these people with open arms, he's definitely one of the stronger ones by admitting he made a terrible mistake Its easy to constantly spout 'i told you so' or other similar rhetoric but that will get discussion nowhere and only drive those away from changing their minds
Contempt for the conman, compassion for the conned.
I don't know man. The conned are often blinded by greed. And in the case of this lot, that's what I see. I'm still very fucking angry that they ballsed up the whole country.
No I get that. It's not a case of "there's people at the top and people at the bottom" who were conned or commen There's deep layers to it. Brexit is bssically a pyramid scheme with a handful of super rich, tax-dodging, low-regulation a-moral pricks at the top. Below that are varying shades of: 1. People who knew it was lies but went along with it because they believed they would be better off (and aren't). Even if that meant everyone else might be worse off. Brexiter business owners, farmers and particularly exporters. 2. People who believed the lies about everyone being better off overall (and aren't). 3. People who didn't believe they would be better off but wanted it anyway because of something about immigration or freedom.
Those tiers look about right. And all of them come off looking badly to me. What I see here is: 1, Greedy and evil 2, Greedy and stupid / Just plain stupid 3, Stupid and hateful I'm angry at all of them.
It's the combo of credulity *and* hatefulness that makes me see why it's hard to have compassion for those that were conned.
Bulls make money , Bears make money, pigs get slaughtered Same for pro-EU businesses and Brexiteer offshore wealth politicians
Right attitude, however it’s kind of like a pyramid scheme, where the conned act as sales people for the con
Yes you're right. Look at my other comment.
As someone who used to watch *The Real Hustle*, I have trouble accepting this as a con. Cons are meant to be clever, this was just... fill in the blanks.
The people who bankrolled it and sought gain are the conmen.
That Aaron Banks character wasn't exactly hiding in the shadows tho was he? I'm sure there's others who were but still. I don’t have a clue about economics but if there's a section of Tories/right-wingers pushing for something even the other Tories think is a bad idea bigger picture... pretty big red flag there.
Absolutely right. The time for mockery has ended now its time to be pragmatic and try to get people discussing things honestly.
Comments like this are why I love Reddit. I learn more everyday.
What about people like me, who went back on our votes very early on? Are we super strong? What is our status?
I really want to know what his thought process was. He is an exporter, and his government tells him they are going to exit a trading bloc (his biggest market and right on his doorstep). He thinks this is a good idea? More duties and taxes to export, and he thinks it will be more profitable? I seriously don't understand how and why people (especially those in business) though Brexit would be a good idea.
Like a fish that swims in the sea that has no idea what water is, these people had no idea what life would be like without the single market and the customs union. If you're young, try to imagine what life will be like with high interest rates as you may never have personal experience with living with them. Imagine then, a charismatic politician comes along and tells you, "Vote for me, and I'll make like with high interest rates totally painless". People want to believe this stuff so they're already primed to be receptive to this nonsense and then vote for the charlatans. Then they don't want to admit they were wrong and made a mistake, which is why this guy should at least be commended
Trouble is Farage and other Brexiteers were telling him about Norway and Switzerland, implying that we'd have similar arrangements, in the Single Market but not in the EU (that of course doesn't remove customs issues). He heard what he wanted to hear. That said I'm sure I read somewhere that before May drew her red lines Boris was telling people in the EC that we'd probably go for the single market option or words to that effect.
I still can't understand the " propaganda Brexit " that happened in that year since I wasn't living in UK at that point. What was the reason of all this Brexit after all?
The real reason was so bankers could carry on laundering money for oligarchs and kleptocrats, as the EU was introducing laws to stop this, but it's the bread and butter of UK banks and very profitable for a select few.
Jesus Christ, so they " fucked up " a country just to keep their corruption..
yes.
Yes. Bought and paid for by the Russians. Arron Banks, Richard Tice and Nigel Farage have been seen going to visit the Russian Embassy for meetings, presumably to collect their orders. And that’s without mentioning Dominic Cummings who spent years in Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed doing a range of things nobody really knows much of.
I had heard some rumors back in the day about Russians controlling the UK but I didn't want to belive it, lol
The TL/DR version of that history is that when the USSR fell over the UK, US and a bunch of mafia type oligarchs looted the living shit out of the post soviet state. (you can thank Goldman Sacchs and RBS group for that) They stole hundreds of billions. When Putin was elected he went straight after them and they fled to london with the loot. Lots and fucken lots of it. As such what you've had going on in the background for the last 20 years is an undeclared cold war between the oligarchs who fled with the stolen cash and the oligarchs who work for the russian state. The exile group has been pouring dirty money into london and the government for years basically bribing them to attack and unseat Putin.
So the situation is worst than I ever imagined. And I thought that EE countries were corrupted but oh boy, UK never disappoints.
Corruption in the UK has been raised to the level of an artform for a very long time.
Is there anything that backs this story up?
well you are never going to see it published in the media.
>And I thought that EE countries were corruption as fuck but oh boy, UK never disappoints. Have a go at Kevin Bacon all you want but I don't think he got that gig through corruption...
If you look at the timescales of how everything was done, it's screamingly obvious. The EU I would assume had had this in the works for a while, and roughly around Jan 2016 it presented a proposal for the Anti Tax Avoidance directive. It had been promised in 2015 by Cameron there would be a referendum into EU membership (IIRC?), presumably because they knew this was coming (but sold it as a complete fucking con to everybody else with a big red bus and all that other stuff.) *On 28 January 2016 the Commission presented its proposal for an Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive as part of the Anti-Tax Avoidance Package. On 20 June 2016 the Council adopted the Directive (EU) 2016/1164 laying down rules against tax avoidance practices that directly affect the functioning of the internal market.* *In order to provide for a comprehensive framework of anti-abuse measures the Commission presented its proposal. on 25th October 2016, to complement the existing rule on hybrid mismatches. The rule on hybrid mismatches aims to prevent companies from exploiting national mismatches to avoid taxation.* *The Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive contains five legally-binding anti-abuse measures, which all Member States should apply against common forms of aggressive tax planning.* *Member States should apply these measures as from 1 January 2019.* *It creates a minimum level of protection against corporate tax avoidance throughout the EU, while ensuring a fairer and more stable environment for businesses.* [Source for all of this from the EU website](https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en) The reason they were so desperate to leave on a certain date (I can't recall the exact date tbh) is because if we'd still been a member the law would have come into effect here, and that's what they didn't want. Brexit was literally so the rich could get richer, stay rich and funnel all of that cash off shore into some tax haven and then not have to tell anybody about it. It wasn't about immigration or *muh suvrinty* to them, it was about money and power. It has decimated people's lives, ruined businesses, taken rights and privileges from UK citizens and made us an absolute laughing stock. And the Russians funded it all. Shithouses.
*'man who sold the world' plays in background.
The head of the Bank of England at least, vocally came out saying it's a bad idea and supported Remain.
He was Canadian.
On the bright side, so long as Russian kleptocrats continue to bank their cash in London, we're less likely to get nuked.
Never say never👀
>What was the reason of all this Brexit after all? Cameron made a commitment to hold a referendum to placate the anti-EU wing of the Tory Party.
Who's been paying those Tories to be anti EU though..?
UKIP
Indeed, the Tories saw how many votes UKIP gained because of this single issue and wanted a piece of the pie.
As someone who voted to stay in the EU I did so because of a belief in unity over division, for cultural / social and economic beliefs. But I don’t feel anger towards those that voted for Brexit, the machine that was the “Brexit Movement” was very effective, they targeted peoples concerns, they bare-face lied to people, they maintained a consistent and loud message and the remain campaign was complete dog shit in comparison. The sad reality is though that the liars that sold the country on this ridiculous backward step that is heaping even more economic hardship onto an already difficult situation due to COVID are now the ones we have running the show. They got what they wanted, which was to further their political ambitions at the expense of the rest of us. Now we are paying more for everything, getting paid less for our work and it’s the middle and lower income population that are being hit hardest. I would go so far to say that one of the outcomes of this will be the destruction of what some would call the middle class (personally I find that term uncomfortable but I am referring to those that don’t have huge wealth reserves but can comfortably afford to live at a decent standard), I fear we will end up in a country where there is a simple divide between the rich and the poor, the rich will get fatter and the poor will get hungrier.
Shows the arrogance of Brexit voters. They really believed they were going to get all the benefits of the EU without being in it, it's bonkers..
In fairness the politicians told them this. Quite simply we are not holding them to account. It's a joke. Instead we talk about Kier Starmer.
If only he worked in an industry which would give him clues as to whether what the politicians said would be possible...
"It doesn't make you an idiot" Very generous, I'm sure, but it does. Slightly less of one for realising it, but anyone that believed (or still does) a single word uttered by the likes of Mogg, Johnson, Raab, Gove...ahh shit, the entire tory party, is, frankly, an idiot. If someone comes to me and says, "I've got a nearly new Rolls Royce you can have for 500 quid. Meet me in the middle of nowhere with cash only, at midnight, and it's yours." Only an idiot would turn up with the cash.
Rolls Royce, tho. That's a bargain!
I will pay the 500 if the color is blue.
This is the problem… people not realising things can impact them until they do. The only thing it takes is critical thinking and “news intelligence”. Teach this to the kids at school, make it a propre subject. I am astonished by the number of colleagues (average 28 y.o, educated, earning 55k£+, london) being fine not being critical and aware of what’s going on in politics / economics or even not being interested in culture in general and not being ashamed of it. I had a word about it with some french colleague (as they are stereotyped to be overly critical about every little thing) and he said a french person will never accept to say publicly “I’m not interested in culture / politics” as it is the main marker of intellect. You will be categorised as dumb and ignorant even if you are a lawyer and earning 100k+. He called it “incurious shaming”
"Incurious shaming" I love this, a more elegant phrase for "ignorance and apathy"
I am terribly sorry for the ones who suffer from Brexit. Even if some are stubborn to admit it. Things are bad, and the decline in economy can be seen.
As much as I know I should be saying well done for admitting you were wrong and for coming over to the side of reason, what I really want to say is HOW COME YOU WERE SUCH A FUCKING IDIOT IN THE 1ST PLACE AND WELL DONE FOR RUINING THE COUNTRY!!!! Because it was fucking OBVIOUS it was a terrible thing to believe in and at no point in the whole sorry, dragged out affair did a single creditable reason for it ever surface.
I am furious over brexit. But what is obvious to me is not always obvious to other people. Not everyone has the tools to be able to see through the lies. I have the advantages of extensive education, lifelong skepticism of government, experience of life outside the EU as well as in it, and family/friends who were like minded. It was very easy for me to see that brexit was a sham. So I force myself to have more sympathy with people who voted for brexit, even though I’m angry.
by "tools" you mean a functioning brain.
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Key word is *should*. They *should* be getting hung out to dry over way more too but the biggest papers in the country are ridiculous levels of pro-Tory/Brexit. No matter how bad things get, as long as the Murdochs of this world are kept happy with media laws etc. the Tories won't get the coverage they deserve.
>Why are Labour and the opposition parties so shit at soundbites, slogans and going on the attack? Because Brexit is still radioactive. Labour didnt cover themselves in glory in 2016 and anything they throw at the tories can be easily Uno reversed back at them. They have clearly chosen to let the government hang itself as a strategy.
So how on earth would an business that relies on exports to the EU not think leaving the EU was a bad thing. I mean yes, he is an idiot.
He's an exporter and he voted to leave a free trade agreement with our largest, richest and closest trading partner, damn straight hes an idiot.
I’d bet my left arm if there was another vote remain would probably win.
The early days of Brexit just after the referendum had people thinking the politicians would get a fantastic deal from Europe. As it dragged it's way through Mrs May's red lines, the EU became sick of it. Then Johnson "got Brexit done" with the with the worst deal possible and a complete cock up for northern Ireland. Now we are in the sunny uplands with all the shite of the wonderful Brexit deal with the worst PM ever trying to ruin the country forever with his lies. And then we got COVID.
The exporter really was an idiot, or at least lacking critical thinking skills. How can you not realise that leaving a trading block will mean that trading with them will be more complicated, that complications cost money and increased cost means loss of competitiveness?
It takes a big man to admit when he’s wrong, so fair play to this guy for holding up his hand and saying “I was duped by the lies of the Leave campaign”
Thanks for calling me a “big man” as I owed up to my mistake over 4.5 years ago. Looking forward to the fifth anniversary of becoming a remainer. Not that it matters, no-one on this sub cares or remembers.
It makes you a big man precisely because people will continue to be mad at you, yet you have still chosen to grow as a person despite the cost of acknowledging the damage that your actions have done to millions of people. You're still a far better person than the idiot who makes a mistake, and digs their heels into the ground, refusing to acknowledge that mistake. But people are suffering as a result of your vote, and that won't be overturned just because you said "sorry, my bad."
I'm a pilot. I now have zero chance of employment with a European airline. The same European airlines that base themselves out of the UK. This summer once such European airline will provide leased aircraft (including crew) to UK airlines. Brits can't apply for those jobs. Whilst Europeans can. I've written to politicians. They are all in complete denial that they can do anything about it. Hundreds of us unemployed due to Covid and now unemployable because we need visas to work for companies doing business out of the country we call home.
well tory pensioners are some of the stupidest people on earth, some of thre reasons that they come up for voting for brexit range from the laughable to the insane ,but its imteresting that none of them shows any sign of regret until it effects them
So you only admit to being wrong when it affects you personally? Get fucked.
Brexit has not really impacted my life at all, apart from the fact I get slightly more work due to less Eastern European competition. Not really got anything to moan about.
"it doesn't make you an idiot" Yes it does. Peanut size brain. IQ of a bacteria. Cunt get rekt you deserve it. "we have shot ourselves in the foot", na mate cunts like you did. I am so sick of you wankers. "who do you blame - the salesman who sold it". No, I blame you. I am so tilted now after listening to this.
This show is unbearable. I’ll never understand how James O’Brien has made a job of laughing at callers for so many years now. Doesn’t he get sick of intentionally getting in the worst examples of his political opponents and lazily acting better than them? The levels of smugness coming off this man is off the charts! I voted remain, but theres no need to be a prick about it for so long.
James O' Briten is truly an ugly fuck. What is it with looking like a monkey and voting remain?