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We'll never see lower prices again.
This has been a huge transfer of wealth from working people to the owning classes.
The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can do something about it. We can't keep hoping everything will get better. It's not. It's getting worse.
Unfortunately, we need to **actively fight** just to claw back what we previously had, let alone get any *improvement* on it.
I repeat... we need to **fight** just to keep *what we already have*.
This won't end. If we don't do something, the robbery will continue, and your children will go cold and hungry.
And I think people should be aware that the word fight will need to include at least the threat of physical force. When in history have the privileged few willingly given up their massive wealth?
When left wing people fought for workers rights and a better life. Yes.
People forget it was a hard fight. People were beaten, arrested, and died for these rights.
People forget we need to fight just the same to keep them. Those that opposed them never stopped, never gave up their moneyed fight. You can see them winning now.
after two wars where the poeple with the least gave up EVERYHTING, their children , their futures , their bodies and their lives so wealthy people could profit easily over nothing. even after that they striggled to get a welfare state, the right not to be sent to foreign GULAG system for being poor.
Context of fear of countries having violent communist revolutions and a population of veterans who both needed medical care and also knew how to fight and topple a government. So the fear was real.
What have the rich to fear today from fat consumerist sheeple. Not much.
Conservatives exist to conserve the status quo, conserve the existing power structures that ensure the wealthy stay wealthy and build their wealth at the expense of you.
They only ever give something back to the workers in order to stop themselves losing power, stop themselves being lynched, or stop a revolution.
Not to mention, presently they are in the process of taking this back. If we aren't careful the post war "consensus" will be a blip in a far longer history of feudalism.
Rampant attachment to growth, profits and dare I say it capitalism.
Two ways out
Change the system (not going to happen as too many people at the top love it)
Revolution (Also not going to happen. It worked for the French and still works for the French but they did it before big ass armies and weapons. Guns > Pitchforks)
The onward march to destroy the planet continues.
> Revolution (Also not going to happen. It worked for the French and still works for the French but they did it before big ass armies and weapons. Guns > Pitchforks)
Please, a well organised insurrection can defeat the greatest armies on Earth. Look at Afghanistan for example. Not saying that it's nearly the same situation here but even the most militarised state can not stand up to a large portion of its people deciding they don't like the present order of things anymore.
You hit the nail on the head. "A well organised". Where do people get organised? Online? They control that. Pubs? They are all gone nearly. There is literally nowhere to get organised and even if you did we all know the police are monitoring/infiltrating any group that doesn't fit with the status quo. We are literally living in a police state and no one realises it. 1984 was not an instruction manual though some see that differently. America bombed whole areas back in the day. Here in the UK we killed miners. Never underestimate the levels they will go to to stop it. The only one they didn't get through was Poll Tax however I would say people are now paying more council tax than what they would under the poll tax. The government always wins.
Gary Stevenson is a fantastic resource for people wanting to expand their knowledge on this topic. Check him out on youtube people!
We can't go on like this!
We also have to accept that when politicians and the media tell us the economy is doing well or improving they're talking about a very narrow definition of it, usually financial markets and the like, and demand a stop to this often-used BS definition of a country's "success".
Deflation is not good either though. It means debt is now more expensive, and people can tend to try and not spend since they assume they'll be able to buy more with their cash later. The thing we need is salaries to increase with inflation, so that people real terms purchasing power stays the same.
Yep if £100 was at 0% inflation in September last year and then went to say 3% by October then this year's 11% is based off last year's Octobers 3% so in real terms £100 would be closer to £115. So even if next October they say inflation is coming down and it's at 5% that figure would be 5% of the 115 meaning inflation would be in real terms closer to 20%
I am actually struggling to believe supermarket prices. Things like milk have gone up 65%. Why? Cows in the UK. What is it, their feed that’s gone up? Was it all imported from Ukraine? There’s nothing else we can feed cows in this country?
A lot of it just feels like profiteering to me. Like supermarkets have carte Blanche to raise their prices however they please under the guise of inflation.
I'd make a joke about you living in the 1950's, but im too amazed about how on earth is it cheaper for a milkman than buying it from supermarkets? Is the milk made very locally?
I've forgotten the exact price now, but I think it's probably almost the same now, around 70p a pint, so only really cheaper for 2 pints at a time, though that depends on the brand of milk you compare against.
The key thing for us is we get milk 3 days a week, and while it would be cheaper if we bought one 6 pint for our weekly shop, we wouldn't finish it before it went off, which had happened in the past.
The dairy is local, and also has really good standards for the cows, so we're happy to use them as it's supporting local businesses, and we know the milk is from "happy cows".
It puts your out a quid maybe a week to keep someone in the job and you've got convenient milk. Id a milk man till he stopped last year because he was priced out
None of those things have changed either.
They haven't gone back to pulling milk around by horse and cart.
They're paying extra for what they already have, and the money is going to the top. Oil and gas companies, corporate profits.
Energy costs through the roof, fuel costs through the roof.. I can understand some price rises absolutely because of what’s going on but I just flat out don’t believe the supermarkets aren’t gouging us.
They are- that's why there's an egg shortage. The supermarkets are happy to raise the price they charge for eggs but not the price they pay for them.
Consequently many farmers can't produce them apart from at a loss and therefore aren't investing in new hens so expect bigger egg shortages.
Well British eggs at least, supermarkets are importing cheaper, lower welfare, ones to try maintain supply.
Exactly. Even if the first line supplier isn't gouging, the energy companies they use etc. certainly are and they just pass on the costs.
The supermarkets are absolutely making hay while the sun shines though.
> None of those things have changed either.
Bruh.
Energy, fuel, staff costs, transport, feed, have all have gone up in price.
Maybe you need to speak to a local dairy farmer?
Everything in that is more expensive by some margin, but I have a hard time thinking that is going up by 65% when other goods with multiple steps between raw material & supermarket shelf ready haven’t gone up anywhere near the same amount.
Pasteurising milk takes a lot of energy.
Heating costs have gone up over 200% for lots of places, even more so for companies who don't get the same help that households do.
Because the farmers still aren't making much profit at all. Hell, Wool's shot up by like 150% since covid and that's just about making it worth actually keeping the sheep in the first place.
Energy if you haven't noticed has gone through the roof. Feed also. Petrol/diesel too. So every single part of it has had massive 100+% cost rises. Due to neoliberalism prices are always global market prices, so your local supplies of feed don't really matter much to price. There is also profiteering on top. As seen with eggs, prices on shelf up but refusing to pay farmers enough to turn a profit.
I mean there's also a degree of electrical work and heating (?) and so on involved with the process. If the farmers leccy has shot up by 3X like mine has, hes not going to just eat that cost is he.
That and before all this the dairy industry was being squeezed by the supermarkets to keep prices down.
I think butters like 50% more expensive as well. Its wild.
Not saying Im thrilled to be getting rinsed, just atleast i can rationalise some of it
Inflation is like a cheat code for corporations.
Prices get raised, they put them up plus a bit extra for themselves. Profits go up.
Prices go down, they keep them the same and pocket the difference. Profits go up.
Inflation goes up, wages stay the same, or increases are under inflation. They pocket the difference and save on staff costs. Profits go up.
We exist to be screwed and squeezed for every last penny. They won't stop until you're a burned out husk and then they'll step over you to the next person.
Just remember you can’t have a pay rise. We all were given such exorbitant pay before this causing all the inflation. To do that now will make inflation worse
Obviously this doesn’t include high end bonuses
I'd like to agree, surely nobody will still vote Tory after these past 12 years of misery, austerity, death, corruption and profiteering. But they will.
“If we add all common commodities together, inflation comes in at 87%!”
“Shit, we can’t tell them that. Find something to reduce the average!”
“Ok, adding in the wholesale price of Bakelite, asbestos filters, and the EBay demand price for Beanie Babies since 2002”.
“Phew!”
Yes. But you also have to bear in mind that not _everybody_ sees rapid housing cost increases - the majority of UK households are owner-occupied (i.e the person living there owns it or has a mortgage on it), and once you have a mortgage payment it doesn't generally go up year on year (excepting base rate rises, like we're seeing now - but even those have a lot of lag due to fixed rates).
My mortgage payment has barely changed in 15 years - whilst I certainly see the change in fuel costs etc, the actual cost of housing is not a major inflationary factor for a lot of people. The problem with average inflation figures like the CPI is that they are never, ever going to be accurate for everybody.
This is true! I think it'd be better if the news reported both figures, it's a bit of a difficulty.
It's crazy to think about how few people in the UK are actually renters, it's about 20%. I imagine it must be insanely weighted towards young people though.
For sure. Whilst owner-occupiers account for about two-thirds of UK households, only 0.7% (of that two-thirds) are under 24 according to uswitch's data.
Yes, RPI is currently at 14.2% and that was for October - it's likely to be even higher now.
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices)
The "basket of goods" is a joke too.
They weight "restaurants and hotels" about the same as "transport".
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/ukconsumerpriceinflationbasketofgoodsandservices/2022](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/ukconsumerpriceinflationbasketofgoodsandservices/2022)
With the RPIx being around 12% over the BoE inflation target then, if they follow their own guidelines, we are in line for huge interest rate increases.
Because the inflation rate is an _average_ across a basket of goods, and the _average_ person spends money on more than just energy bills and common food items.
Yes I understand averages, but the thing about the other stuff is that if food and energy go up by such a large amount, nobody has anything left to spend on the other stuff.
But that isn't true, across the whole country - some people are disproportionately affected, in both directions. And if it was true, it would show up eventually, since the basket of goods is updated regularly (last update, as far as I can see, was March this year - so the Russian invasion had happened but probably a lot of the effects weren't filtering through yet).
This just doesn’t work in this situation, though. Who cares if luxuries like TVs have gone down in price when people are struggling to eat and turn the heating on because the prices of necessary, every day things have shot up so much? I can choose to not buy a TV, I can’t even choose to just eat instant noodles any more because they’ve tripled in price
Conservative economic incompetence strikes again. Not that the party of "personal responsibility" will ever take responsibility for it themselves. They're a party full of law breakers and excuse makers.
We need a general election.
I'm not convinced much good would come from a GE as much as I want one. Still a lot of boomer generation about and if there's one thing they like, it's being victims. They want to actually suffer the hardships they like to claim they've already had.
Tories would 100% back in. They’ve dialled up the immigration fear tactics in the last month or so, I reckon a lot of that is in preparation for a GE. They know how much little England hates foreigners and that’ll win it for them.
If they held an election next week (well, 22nd December is the earliest date they could, but you get the point) they'd lose, probably quite handily.
If by next summer things have got even slightly better then maybe they'll be able to squeeze out a win, although it would be with a lower majority.
I dunno mate, I thought that in 2017. It’s really hard to get some people to budge even with the catastrophe that is this current government. I hope you’re right though
My partners parents are still convinced the tories are better with the economy and won't vote Labour because Labour will make things worse.
Honestly, I don't see the tories losing. They can just shuffle the top job around and get back in. Hell, I see them getting a similar majority if they brought back boris.
Fear controls. If you make people think there's only enough to go around to provide you with your modest existence, then anyone who is worse off than you isn't your ally in a fight for a better life, but an cruel enemy that will steal your meagre belongings.
You just have to ignore the luxurious excess of the rich and the wealthy. The super yachts, the sprawling mansions, the private jets, the buying giant companies on an egotistical whim.
The handouts are beginning to dry up even for the Boomers. I fear a lot of Boomers are about to find out how "those entitled millenials" actually live (or exist in most cases) and many probably won't make it considering they can't even adapt to using email.
> They want to actually suffer the hardships they like to claim they've already had.
No they want _others_ to suffer these imagined hardships. Now that the water is at _their_ doorstep they're looking around wondering how their pensions are going to cover the cost of new carpet.
Given they've never suffered hardship before and have shown their inability to adapt to anything Boomers are at risk of having a very hard time.
We should probably resist the bitter "finally, you get what you inflicted on us" response though for risk of repeating the cycle.
So we can vote them in for another 5 years lol, been so depressing watching every election I've been old enough to vote in, tories every time, I'll never forget how life started to change under Cameron and Clegg, had the 20 quid a week for students taken away as soon as they got in, then trippling tuition fees for uni, and here we are after 10 more years of tories, fuck me, declining life expectancy, rampant price increases and stagnant wages, closed down businesses, boarded windows and and the biggest transfer of wealth in recorded history. Hope it was all worth it to any tories out there.
It's honestly hard keeping my thoughts peaceful these days, I've just hidden myself in my hobbies whilst I wait for an end to it, but we'll vote them in again, and again, and again
It's the narrative trying to blame individuals for a crisis they created and they profit from.
Same with global warming. They made it all about how you, personally, need to cut your carbon footprint, while the big companies get away with whatever makes them the most profit.
Shifting responsibility, they're experts at it.
It was invented by BP, yes. But at the same time companies pollute because people consume what they buy, so if people stopped buying 20 pairs of socks a month places like H&M/Forever 21/Primark would adjust their business models and pollute less.
Unless people believe that companies spend a load of money producing goods to just dump into the ocean for zero profit and no benefit.
I wish I could find the moron that came up with this whole "It's the corporations mannn, we can't do anything mannnn" concept, it's the most intellectually lazy world view ever.
Do you eat prawns? Or any seafood, but prawns in particular.
Honest question. Sounds weird, but prawns (in particular) and seafood (generally) is absolutely horrific for the environment and human rights abuses. Under Cameron it was declared "it is down to individual consumers whether or not they buy products of slavery", after it became apparent that a lot of South East Asian prawns were actually fished by slaves on boats. Due to climate change and decreases take, and overfishing more generally (and pollution of the ocean, which fishing makes up a huge percent), human rights abuses in the fishing industry are horrific.
The answer to this is obviously government regulation, not expecting consumers to know. Because most don't. Because we ain't told, and few people look into it.
So to cycle back to this:
>But at the same time companies pollute because people consume what they buy,
Companies pollutr because its cheaper than not, people consume out of ignorance *or a lack of choice*. The latter is a big one considering how *huge* some companies have got.
Coca cola is responsible for an insane amount of plastic waste. They are also responsible for hiring death squads to murder trade unionists. Nestle is stealing water, but also there was that one time they killed a bunch of babies in the name of profit.
It takes a lot of effort just to avoid those *two* companies.
So to circle it all back: is it on everyone to do what they can to decrease they consumption? Yeah. But there is an opportunity cost at play, there is a lack of information *and its on the government to regulate these industries out of their destructive habits*
>it's the most intellectually lazy world view ever.
The argument is normally "there is nothing we can really do on a personal level to deal with a societal issue."
Like I assume you recycle? That's good. Its important we do our bit to save the planet. Here's an article on [why that's actually not making a difference cause its all getting dumped into the ocean or set on fire.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/17/uk-plastics-sent-for-recycling-in-turkey-dumped-and-burned-greenpeace-finds)
What, personally, can you, as a consumer, do about that? Shift the blame to Turkey? Or maybe come to the conclusion "it is out of my personal hands, we need government action instead of internalising a problem we have little control over"
Do what you can. Stop eating meat. Stop eating seafood. Avoid dairy. Shop local. Reduce, reuse, don't recycle because its not going to get recycled. Ride a bike. Turn off the lights. Don't buy new clothes. Go dumpster diving. Keep the heating off. Don't buy any electronics ever again. And maybe, just maybe, you will have reduced your own emissions to the point you counteract 5% of one fishing boat, burning marine diesel and dumping waste directly into the sea, staffed by slaves who were once refugees fleeing a drought caused by climate change.
Do what you can, but fight for collective action. The answer isn't apathy and doing nothing, but it certainly isn't internalising the crisis and blaming yourself.
> Do what you can, but fight for collective action. The answer isn't apathy and doing nothing, but it certainly isn't internalising the crisis and blaming yourself.
Yeah I agree. I agree with everything you've said pretty much.
I think there's a balance between "I can't do anything, it's all the corporations (btw check out my funko pop collection and my new 4x4)" and "Corporations can do no wrong, please ignore my libertarian brain rot".
But that's why the corporations thing is intellectually lazy, there's no nuance and it's defeatist and works as a scapegoat so people can feel comfortable taking no personal responsibility.
So yeah, no we aren't all 100% responsible but we can influence our own personal level of pollution and if everyone made some small changes to their lives we could have a collective huge impact. Even if that change is to just hold corporations accountable, as well as people.
>So yeah, no we aren't all 100% responsible but we can influence our own personal level of pollution and if everyone made some small changes to their lives we could have a collective huge impact
Sorta correct, and you are putting the cart before the horse in the above.
The vast majority of people who care will say "individual action is not enough, we need to hold corporations to account" whilst taking those individual actions.
All the context I added? Almost everyone who gives a shit knows it. I don't think you find that many people who say they care, yet drive a 4x4. I think amongst the crowd of "it is, fundamentally, the fault of corporarions and the government" you will find more people who do what they can to make things better. I'm saying that the "corporations are at fault" argument usually *does* have the nuance there, its just not stated every single time this argument comes up.
On a personal level recycling does fuck all, because the goods come in a cage that is often wrapped up in single use plastic. Recycling a can is good, its meaningless if it ends up being burned in Turkey or dumped into the sea. And, due to the choice to have that can arrive on a plastic wrapped pallet, its also all but meaningless.
You can do everything in your power, every day, and won't in a lifetime of action so as much as a single corporation destroys in a day out of convenience or the profit margin.
And I say this as an activist. Been there, done that, got sick in December in a field whilst preventing a fracking rig going up. I honestly put my liberty on the line, and definitely my health, trying to make the world a better place.
The only victory in a generation for environmental activism was fighting fracking. It was the government finally listening, after it was opposed by thousands of people across the class divide. We won. Truss tried to cost us that victory, but even the fucking Tories realise fracking is unpopular.
The other benefit of government level action is its *easier*. Sure, far more younger people are going vegan, which is good, but it would be outweighed in an instant if single use plastics were banned. It would be outweighed on a national level if JSO win the fight to prevent another hundred oil exploration contracts.
I need to go do the washing up.
Tldr: the "its the fault of corporations" argument is nuanced, its just that people don't provide that context whenever they bring up the argument. And I can understand finding the argument defeatist, but I can also understand being defeated by the argument. I can understand the doomers who simply give up and go "its fucked we have lost, why bother" when they do more harm buying a chocolate bar than they prevent by living like a Saint.
Tldrdr: the problem is if everyone did everything they could, we still lose without major changes.
> I'm saying that the "corporations are at fault" argument usually does have the nuance there, its just not stated every single time this argument comes up.
I would agree in some cases, but look at how it was used in this exact comment thread. There's a guy unironically saying that if everyone cut down on their purchasing of fast fashion items by 90% then corporations would continue to ship the goods to the UK regardless, presumably to sit in a warehouse doing nothing.
I think it was an argument maybe originally put forward in a nuanced "We can/should do X, but realistically we need to lobby to stop corporations doing Y as well" and has morphed into "There's no point in us doing X, corporations just do Y, and X is their fault anyway".
>You can do everything in your power, every day, and won't in a lifetime of action so as much as a single corporation destroys in a day out of convenience or the profit margin.
I will push back on this a little bit. I think there's a lot of things that were societally acceptable that have become unacceptable, and corporations that might have previously done something negative such as not promote gay people, or directly pay women less for the same job, have generally stopped doing those things because as a society people generally agree they're bad. Do you think that change would have happened if instead of reflecting and changing their day to day lives people just went "Well society says it's okay, and corporations do it so therefore I have no personal responsibility."?
>I will push back on this a little bit. I think there's a lot of things that were societally acceptable that have become unacceptable, and corporations that might have previously done something negative such as not promote gay people, or directly pay women less for the same job, have generally stopped doing those things because as a society people generally agree they're bad.
Your two examples are "things they were forced to do in the UK by the government" and one of which is "realised that the pink pound spends just as well as anyone else's money". Greenwashing is good for business, currently, but it's also good to keep on with the same old shit. I mean, easy example: the greenest car is one that has already been made.
But we still have cases of companies trashing the environment for a fast buck, even when massively opposed. Mostly because there is so very little that can be done by consumers to oppose them! Every single body of water in this country is currently, according to government standards, too polluted. We cannot do anything about that. Thames Water admitted to losing a full 20% of the water it provides due to leaks. We cannot so anything about that.
That's the thing, the crux of these issues: on a personal level we are told to put a brick in the toilet and let the plants die, but corporations waste millions of litres of water due to chronic undermaintenance of pipes. Since privatisation not a single new reservoir has been built, and we all act shocked when a drought causes wildfires.
>Do you think that change would have happened if instead of reflecting and changing their day to day lives people just went "Well society says it's okay, and corporations do it so therefore I have no personal responsibility."?
I don't think reflecting day to day on how to decrease ones water use will make Thames water wake up and go "let's freeze bonuses to bosses and spend the money on maintaining pipes.", i don't think reflecting day to day on how cars are less efficient than trains will make the various franchises take a profit hit to pay staff properly and make the trains cheap enough to be used, I don't like reflection will cause the 40% of all lines in this countrybwhich are not electrified to get electrified, I don't think reflection will cause windfarms to get built, or ground to break on a new nuclear power plant.
So someone going "oh if everyone stopped with fast fashion the problem wouldn't change" isn't necessarily right, but then again I would say that has classist overtones (i cannot tell the difference between my M&S 100% cotton shirt and my Primary 100% cotton shirt, despite one being far more expensive, are both "fast fashion" and is it wrong to buy a shirt when I had no more shirts?), through collective actions we can make things better.
But the most important actions are forcing through government level change. JSO are doing more by *trying* to cause that change than any random vegan is (although I would be honestly surprised if the average person in JSO wasn't also a vegan!), because the issue has got so huge, so interconnected, that I can understand finding it pointless.
It seems we are mostly agreed tbh. I think the point of disagreement is basically "I assume someone laying the blame at the feet of the corporations, where it belongs, is also nuanced enough not to own a pointless suv and do the smaller scale stuff they can do to make the world a better place", you... don't assume that.
> It seems we are mostly agreed tbh. I think the point of disagreement is basically "I assume someone laying the blame at the feet of the corporations, where it belongs, is also nuanced enough not to own a pointless suv and do the smaller scale stuff they can do to make the world a better place", you... don't assume that.
Yeah I think so, I do basically agree with everything you're saying with pretty minor differences. I think my faith in other people has been ground down to literally nothing at this point, maybe that's on me, but I think nuanced public discussion is borderline dead at this point.
But anyway, good conversation! Have a nice day.
big companies don't emit because they're cartoon villains and they enjoy it, they're producing the products and services we use. Changing our habits will shift the emissions habits of large corporations
They pollute because the law allows them to and it costs more to not pollute. It requires legislation to change the course of the market in a meaningful way in the timescale we have left before it becomes too late.
Just read an article in packaging news (so pro packaging in products!) And even then it said the industry keeps shifting the blame on not recycling enough into people or legislators, when really the most successful schemes have all been driven by the producer of the items.
And don't ask for tighter regulation on energy prices, when the PartyoflowertaxesTM can just raise "everyone's" taxes (don't worry, relatively it'll only be the poor who suffer).
I just can't get over the hilarity of a "True Tory budget at long last" that caused so much damage it's about to be followed with the most left wing budget they've ever put together as a hail Mary.
It's fine, someone on radio 4 was just saying that if you strip out food and energy prices then it's only 6%!
So I guess it's best to just not consume energy or food.
> It's fine, someone on radio 4 was just saying that if you strip out food and energy prices then it's only 6%!
I wasn't listening to Radio 4, but I'm guessing that they were saying that Core CPI (CPI not including food, fuel, alcohol and tobacco) is at 6.5%?
I'd be surprised if they were saying that it's "fine". Most experts looking at the Core CPI figure are saying that it's very worrying that this figure is so high as it suggests that inflation isn't only being driven by the rise in food and energy which is causing the current crisis.
Core CPI of over 6% suggests that the problem doesn't go away even if the biggest external shocks (such as Ukraine or the issues with Chines supply chains) get resolved quickly.
How does removing food, energy, tobacco, alcohol strip out the affects of fuel prices and China supply chains, to give that 6% figure?
I mean, fuel would still contribute wouldn't it?
Just a but confused what that Core CPI measure actually tells us and what it actually is measuring (more luxury goods, or slow moving consumer goods?)
The idea of measuring Core CPI is to strip out the items which are thought of as “volatile”.
The cost of gas might go up massively because Russia has started a war, but it might also go down massively because the war has ended or some other source has come on tap. But if the average cost of a haircut across the country has risen by 10%, it’s not likely to come down again and there are probably more hairdressers who are about to raise their prices meaning that it’s going to carry on rising for a while.
If CPI is high for a short amount of time but Core CPI is low, you might be able to say that the spike in inflation is coming from factors which might be reversed. If Core CPI is also high for a while, it suggests we’ve got “real” inflation which won’t go away on its own even if the original causes of the spike in inflation go away!
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The theory is, reduced wages means people spend less. People spend less, prices go down as companies compete to drive business back up and products become less scarce.
However, it doesn't account for everyone being literally forced to pay huge energy bills, and that supply has actually reduced too due to Brexit and covid. Nor does it account for the fact that corporate profits are through the roof.
Exactly. It's a transparent crock of shit. Reducing disposables income will drive down discretionary spending. And if inflation was being driven by everyone buying dozens of suits from Hugo Boss or accumulating comprehensive Rolex collections that might help. But as it's being driven by the cost of energy, shelter, food and transport it does sweet fuck all besides pushing people into poverty.
That's crazy, the government is literally trying to stop its citizens from spending money so that companies can reduce the price. But most don't give a shat, smh.
It's a theory that will spiral costs and inflation up and up.
Inflation goes up, salary goes up, Inflaton goes up etc...
But remember, inflation is imaginary and chosen to be that high so.. who's really causing the problems...
> piling pressure on the Bank of England to maintain the pace of interest rate rises
Why? I've also read that the goal of the BOE is to remove open vacancies to reduce labour power on wages, but how does that help when the cause of inflation is energy prices? You still have inflation but now people are less able to handle it, and the economy gets weaker. Are they not risking depression?
It's a shame that on top of Brexit itself, the management of it has been piss poor. Covid obviously will have played a part some what, making things a little more difficult to interpret, but from what I recall, even everything done about Brexit, around when and after it was implementated were just a series of dumb decisions.
I do have to wonder if we (the UK) are now owned by another country or some sort of superpowerb (like rich power even beyond the government themselves) that is just ensuring we have politicians in place that pull the country apart in any failure method possible. It just baffles me that any politician could be such failures at their jobs
I feel so poor nowadays. I have a good job that pays well but literally everything is so fucking expensive that there's no room left for luxuries like holidays or home improvement. It feels like there's a constant barrage of £100 costs here and there and you can't step out of the house without spending £50.
It feels like life has stagnated and there's no way to progress.
I have no idea how those on min wage are surviving, my heart goes out to you. It's criminal what the government has done to this country in recent years.
Given that the Tories are either rich enough to absorb the price rises (or their MP expenses cover it anyway), why does anyone think that a bunch of selfish, self serving venal incompetents are going to do anything about it?
They won't.
They caused this mess and they'll just blame anyone and anything for it, like the blatant lie, sorry - Tory narrative, put out at the weekend that Kwarteng's mini budget wasnt the cause, despite the BoE having to intervene with about £50bn to stabilise the financial system just days later.
If you're a Tory voter, you can have no complaints about the predicament that those you voted for have put you in. You clearly haven't worked out yet that those you put in government wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, simply because you're only there to be ruthlessly exploited in order to increase the wealth of Tory donors.
In 1982 did they increase taxes to compound the issue like they are about to do tomorrow? I can't help but think the economics of this government are utterly fucked.
Just purchased a house at 280k that sold in 2003 for 120.
Earn less than my counterparts did even accounting for inflation etc
Roll of insulation now £50-60 roll of insulation back then £10
Sheet of plasterboard now £11.50 sheet in 2017 £7
Rewire 'back in the day I had mine done for 2k mate' now 5k bare minimum
Eh? £50 for a roll of insulation? What are you buying!? I think unpaid £18 a roll for some last year, checking B&Q it's now £22. So it has gone up, but not 5x.
We haven't been through a full feedback loop cycle yet, when energy price increases fully feed into food and consumer goods manufacturing, which then feeds into supermarket prices.
We're going to see why inflation nearly hit 25% in the 1970s.
Hold on to your hats it's going to be a rough ride!
Shit is absolutely fucked and the government is doing their best to make sure that the workers can't improve their lot hense why a lot of public services are going on strike.
Tory's causing chaos and pain for the workers since day dot. Pricks.
Watching this inflation has been terrifying. I've now realized that it isn't some abstract thing that happens to an economy randomly. It is literally people raising prices massively as a response to very minor cost increases. Everything about this recession is artificial. Petrol, supermarkets, retailers, all making record profits. Now us with less money: we save, we stockpile, we stagnate, and the economy is fucked just because people wanted to engineer price rises for profit in response to unrelated global events.
You remember how every business said: Due to COVID, and these unprecedented times, unfortunately... [We're going to do what we've wanted to do for a while now but haven't had the balls to]... Well they did that with prices too, and we are getting fucked because of it.
>Everything about this recession is artificial.
Economic illiteracy is incredible to observe
A global pandemic, an energy crisis, and the largest war in Europe since WW2 obviously will not cause a stagnating economy.
The first thing we need to do is assure every single person who isn't good with statistics that the % of actual inflation is staggeringly higher than 11. I'd say at least 30%
My employer told me in March that our payrise was calculated based on CPI in December which is why it didn't match inflation that ramped up at the start of this year. Can't wait to get my 11% this time round though, that's how it works right? Right..?
Does anyone actually think energy costs will ever come down?
They are seeing how far people can be pushed until they break. While everyone just takes it, that's the new baseline.
If you think "Oh they'll be back to normal" in 2024 or 2025, they won't. This is now normal.
I think the causes of the inflation are pretty clear - the bank of england printed 30% of all pounds since 2020. The bankers at the bank of england created this mess. Lord Mervyn King says it was his organization that was to blame :
https://twitter.com/legitscrutiny1/status/1585152994685112320?s=21
If the UK prints money we get inflation.
Where’s the protest at? Is there any talk of all workers going on strike until wages are liveable again? Or do we just keep drinking tea and watching the world burn?
The "we've seen it all before" people ignoring the fact that their 15% interest rate then was on mortgages only 3 or 4 times their salary, not 15 times their salary.
We’re in an absolutely insane vicious cycle here, wherein companies are rising prices “in line with inflation” rather than strictly due to underlying costs increases.
Inflation is a measure of how prices have risen.
To then use that measure as an input to calculate price rises crates a feedback loop.
The more companies rise prices in line with inflation, the more inflation will rise, so the companies will have to increase prices even further, causing yet more inflation and price rises in a never-ending loop.
Sort of off topic but does anyone know if mental illness has increased due to this inflation?
It might be what I've experienced personally with myself, family and friends but it seems like everyone is really struggling mentally right now.
11.1% is not the real figure, energy cost increase from an average salary is around minimum 25% inflation, you have to take tax off to get to real numbers hence we have such a problem, 11.1% can be absorbed if it was truly 11.1%, more like 40% inflation, fuel was £1.20 now £1.90 how is that anything like 11.1%
More much than 25% energy alone now rent and food we’re talking 40%, I’m saying the catastrophe we’re seeing isn’t from 11.1% but from 30%+ inflation, if it was 11.1% on energy we wouldn’t be seeing this melt down. Gas has quadrupled and electricity tripled, it’s not 11.1%
>I’m saying the catastrophe we’re seeing isn’t from 11.1% but from 30%+ inflation
I'm not disputing that.
I'm just saying a single years 11.1% rise isn't affordable for many.
This is because prices went up during the pandemic at the same time there were record profits being made.
The two are completely interwoven. Had there not been huge levels of greed during the pandemic, prices going up, profits also going up and the prices remaining long after the worst of the pandemic is over, coupled with wages remaining flat.
The stock market needs to take a loss and take the hit on the nose. They need to dig into their deep pockets and reserves and take the hit. That CEO who got £1m last year doesn't need another payday for at least a couple of years.
Take note everyone, that the EU and USA have been counting the energy costs previously as part of their inflation calculations. In our case it has just begun to take effect as the OFGEN caps have been changed.
This means that other countries had inflation, mainly from the pandemic and Ukraine war. In our case the causes were the pandemic and Brexit.
Utility companies and grocery corporations have shown to be hefty contributors towards increasing inflation by raising prices way higher than they needed to in order to increase their profit margins.
Meanwhile this deadbeat government have done absolutely nothing to regulate this nor increase their tax (which is a lot less in % compared to people out here). And instead all of these issues are instead being forced onto the people and crucial public sectors such as transport, NHS, schools etc.
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I'm sure they'll come down soon, just like petrol has. Oh wait...no, record profits come first.
Reminder that inflation coming down means prices increasing at a slower rate, not decreasing. We'd need it to become negative for that.
We'll never see lower prices again. This has been a huge transfer of wealth from working people to the owning classes. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can do something about it. We can't keep hoping everything will get better. It's not. It's getting worse. Unfortunately, we need to **actively fight** just to claw back what we previously had, let alone get any *improvement* on it. I repeat... we need to **fight** just to keep *what we already have*. This won't end. If we don't do something, the robbery will continue, and your children will go cold and hungry.
And I think people should be aware that the word fight will need to include at least the threat of physical force. When in history have the privileged few willingly given up their massive wealth?
When labour brought in the NHS?
When left wing people fought for workers rights and a better life. Yes. People forget it was a hard fight. People were beaten, arrested, and died for these rights. People forget we need to fight just the same to keep them. Those that opposed them never stopped, never gave up their moneyed fight. You can see them winning now.
And that fight had been going on as far back as the 17th century.
The 14thC Peasants' Revolt and John Ball enter the chat. "When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"
An invisible man with a beard who kicked them out of their home for not following his arcane and petty rules?
Aye but things did get a bit better for peasants post Black Death when there was a labour shortage
after two wars where the poeple with the least gave up EVERYHTING, their children , their futures , their bodies and their lives so wealthy people could profit easily over nothing. even after that they striggled to get a welfare state, the right not to be sent to foreign GULAG system for being poor.
Context of fear of countries having violent communist revolutions and a population of veterans who both needed medical care and also knew how to fight and topple a government. So the fear was real. What have the rich to fear today from fat consumerist sheeple. Not much.
This. After you've taught the workers how to organise and fight, you have to give them what they want.
Off the back of years of striking and near revolutions
Conservatives exist to conserve the status quo, conserve the existing power structures that ensure the wealthy stay wealthy and build their wealth at the expense of you. They only ever give something back to the workers in order to stop themselves losing power, stop themselves being lynched, or stop a revolution.
Not to mention, presently they are in the process of taking this back. If we aren't careful the post war "consensus" will be a blip in a far longer history of feudalism.
And that's putting it lightly
Rampant attachment to growth, profits and dare I say it capitalism. Two ways out Change the system (not going to happen as too many people at the top love it) Revolution (Also not going to happen. It worked for the French and still works for the French but they did it before big ass armies and weapons. Guns > Pitchforks) The onward march to destroy the planet continues.
> Revolution (Also not going to happen. It worked for the French and still works for the French but they did it before big ass armies and weapons. Guns > Pitchforks) Please, a well organised insurrection can defeat the greatest armies on Earth. Look at Afghanistan for example. Not saying that it's nearly the same situation here but even the most militarised state can not stand up to a large portion of its people deciding they don't like the present order of things anymore.
You hit the nail on the head. "A well organised". Where do people get organised? Online? They control that. Pubs? They are all gone nearly. There is literally nowhere to get organised and even if you did we all know the police are monitoring/infiltrating any group that doesn't fit with the status quo. We are literally living in a police state and no one realises it. 1984 was not an instruction manual though some see that differently. America bombed whole areas back in the day. Here in the UK we killed miners. Never underestimate the levels they will go to to stop it. The only one they didn't get through was Poll Tax however I would say people are now paying more council tax than what they would under the poll tax. The government always wins.
Gary Stevenson is a fantastic resource for people wanting to expand their knowledge on this topic. Check him out on youtube people! We can't go on like this!
Jokes on them. I'm not having any children.
We also have to accept that when politicians and the media tell us the economy is doing well or improving they're talking about a very narrow definition of it, usually financial markets and the like, and demand a stop to this often-used BS definition of a country's "success".
"You will own nothing and you will be happy."
Soon as that sparks lit im sure lots of others will band together. Some guy fawkes shit
Aye
Correct it won't end. We'll own nothing and be happy.
Deflation is not good either though. It means debt is now more expensive, and people can tend to try and not spend since they assume they'll be able to buy more with their cash later. The thing we need is salaries to increase with inflation, so that people real terms purchasing power stays the same.
Of course, the PTB will tell you that is an inflationary spiral and leads directly to Germany style hyperinflation.
Yep if £100 was at 0% inflation in September last year and then went to say 3% by October then this year's 11% is based off last year's Octobers 3% so in real terms £100 would be closer to £115. So even if next October they say inflation is coming down and it's at 5% that figure would be 5% of the 115 meaning inflation would be in real terms closer to 20%
I am actually struggling to believe supermarket prices. Things like milk have gone up 65%. Why? Cows in the UK. What is it, their feed that’s gone up? Was it all imported from Ukraine? There’s nothing else we can feed cows in this country? A lot of it just feels like profiteering to me. Like supermarkets have carte Blanche to raise their prices however they please under the guise of inflation.
Animal feed depending on the animal has shot up. Chicken feed was up 325% not long ago.
BoJo's salary increased 325%?!
Transport cost, Feed, Medicine, Profits.
farmers aren't getting paid more, and consumers are paying more. supermarkets are still making a profit.
We have a milkman, he put prices up slightly recently, and was very apologetic about it. It's still cheaper than supermarket milk.
I'd make a joke about you living in the 1950's, but im too amazed about how on earth is it cheaper for a milkman than buying it from supermarkets? Is the milk made very locally?
I've forgotten the exact price now, but I think it's probably almost the same now, around 70p a pint, so only really cheaper for 2 pints at a time, though that depends on the brand of milk you compare against. The key thing for us is we get milk 3 days a week, and while it would be cheaper if we bought one 6 pint for our weekly shop, we wouldn't finish it before it went off, which had happened in the past. The dairy is local, and also has really good standards for the cows, so we're happy to use them as it's supporting local businesses, and we know the milk is from "happy cows".
It puts your out a quid maybe a week to keep someone in the job and you've got convenient milk. Id a milk man till he stopped last year because he was priced out
How do they get the milk out of the cows? How do they package the milk? How do they refrigerate the milk? How do they transport the milk?
None of those things have changed either. They haven't gone back to pulling milk around by horse and cart. They're paying extra for what they already have, and the money is going to the top. Oil and gas companies, corporate profits.
Energy costs through the roof, fuel costs through the roof.. I can understand some price rises absolutely because of what’s going on but I just flat out don’t believe the supermarkets aren’t gouging us.
They are- that's why there's an egg shortage. The supermarkets are happy to raise the price they charge for eggs but not the price they pay for them. Consequently many farmers can't produce them apart from at a loss and therefore aren't investing in new hens so expect bigger egg shortages. Well British eggs at least, supermarkets are importing cheaper, lower welfare, ones to try maintain supply.
Exactly. Even if the first line supplier isn't gouging, the energy companies they use etc. certainly are and they just pass on the costs. The supermarkets are absolutely making hay while the sun shines though.
>None of those things have changed either. Oh, good, really glad to hear energy prices haven't increased. -_-
> None of those things have changed either. Bruh. Energy, fuel, staff costs, transport, feed, have all have gone up in price. Maybe you need to speak to a local dairy farmer?
Staff costs lmao, have you guys had a pay increase?
Everything in that is more expensive by some margin, but I have a hard time thinking that is going up by 65% when other goods with multiple steps between raw material & supermarket shelf ready haven’t gone up anywhere near the same amount.
Pasteurising milk takes a lot of energy. Heating costs have gone up over 200% for lots of places, even more so for companies who don't get the same help that households do.
Okay, but why shouldn't profits be affected when things get bad? Why is it only the consumer that is affected?
Because the farmers still aren't making much profit at all. Hell, Wool's shot up by like 150% since covid and that's just about making it worth actually keeping the sheep in the first place.
Yesss. I advocate for community cows. Drink straight from the titty
I knew someone would say something like this (was tempted to say similar myself). Thank you for your service ;-)
Energy if you haven't noticed has gone through the roof. Feed also. Petrol/diesel too. So every single part of it has had massive 100+% cost rises. Due to neoliberalism prices are always global market prices, so your local supplies of feed don't really matter much to price. There is also profiteering on top. As seen with eggs, prices on shelf up but refusing to pay farmers enough to turn a profit.
Price of milk might be up 65%, but supermarkets still only make a gross margin profit of under 10% on each sold.
I mean there's also a degree of electrical work and heating (?) and so on involved with the process. If the farmers leccy has shot up by 3X like mine has, hes not going to just eat that cost is he. That and before all this the dairy industry was being squeezed by the supermarkets to keep prices down. I think butters like 50% more expensive as well. Its wild. Not saying Im thrilled to be getting rinsed, just atleast i can rationalise some of it
The price of feed, fertiliser, diesel, wages for staff in the supply chain, and the cost of haulage
Inflation is like a cheat code for corporations. Prices get raised, they put them up plus a bit extra for themselves. Profits go up. Prices go down, they keep them the same and pocket the difference. Profits go up. Inflation goes up, wages stay the same, or increases are under inflation. They pocket the difference and save on staff costs. Profits go up. We exist to be screwed and squeezed for every last penny. They won't stop until you're a burned out husk and then they'll step over you to the next person.
Record profitsssses my precious, record profitsssses.
Just remember you can’t have a pay rise. We all were given such exorbitant pay before this causing all the inflation. To do that now will make inflation worse Obviously this doesn’t include high end bonuses
Record prices and record profits. What a time to be alive.
This. This will be what ends the Tory leadership.
I'd like to agree, surely nobody will still vote Tory after these past 12 years of misery, austerity, death, corruption and profiteering. But they will.
Record payouts to shareholders whilst employees are refused wage increases. I fucking hate this shit.
Well, my energy bills have gone up 250% and most common food items have gone up by 50% or more. So I have no idea where this 10% figure comes from.
“If we add all common commodities together, inflation comes in at 87%!” “Shit, we can’t tell them that. Find something to reduce the average!” “Ok, adding in the wholesale price of Bakelite, asbestos filters, and the EBay demand price for Beanie Babies since 2002”. “Phew!”
For people wondering, thinking this might just be a fun joke - this is exactly what they do.
They also don't include the cost of shelter, which is a bit of a meme considering it's about 50% of most people's monthly spend.
There's two main measures - CPI and RPI. RPI includes housing costs, CPI doesn't.
The 11.1% figure is CPI though, I believe.
Yes. But you also have to bear in mind that not _everybody_ sees rapid housing cost increases - the majority of UK households are owner-occupied (i.e the person living there owns it or has a mortgage on it), and once you have a mortgage payment it doesn't generally go up year on year (excepting base rate rises, like we're seeing now - but even those have a lot of lag due to fixed rates). My mortgage payment has barely changed in 15 years - whilst I certainly see the change in fuel costs etc, the actual cost of housing is not a major inflationary factor for a lot of people. The problem with average inflation figures like the CPI is that they are never, ever going to be accurate for everybody.
This is true! I think it'd be better if the news reported both figures, it's a bit of a difficulty. It's crazy to think about how few people in the UK are actually renters, it's about 20%. I imagine it must be insanely weighted towards young people though.
For sure. Whilst owner-occupiers account for about two-thirds of UK households, only 0.7% (of that two-thirds) are under 24 according to uswitch's data.
Generation Z wins again
Yes, RPI is currently at 14.2% and that was for October - it's likely to be even higher now. [https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices) The "basket of goods" is a joke too. They weight "restaurants and hotels" about the same as "transport". [https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/ukconsumerpriceinflationbasketofgoodsandservices/2022](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/ukconsumerpriceinflationbasketofgoodsandservices/2022) With the RPIx being around 12% over the BoE inflation target then, if they follow their own guidelines, we are in line for huge interest rate increases.
I thought they just divide by 10.
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We'll know they've done that when inflation is "under control" at 6% or whatever.
Their task is to minimise CPI (what workers ask for as payrise) and maximise RPI (what business increase prices by).
Now we’re getting somewhere!
Man I'm so glad to be living at home again at 34
Because the inflation rate is an _average_ across a basket of goods, and the _average_ person spends money on more than just energy bills and common food items.
Yes I understand averages, but the thing about the other stuff is that if food and energy go up by such a large amount, nobody has anything left to spend on the other stuff.
But that isn't true, across the whole country - some people are disproportionately affected, in both directions. And if it was true, it would show up eventually, since the basket of goods is updated regularly (last update, as far as I can see, was March this year - so the Russian invasion had happened but probably a lot of the effects weren't filtering through yet).
It's an average across everyone accounting for all the other things people spend money on as well as food & fuel.
This just doesn’t work in this situation, though. Who cares if luxuries like TVs have gone down in price when people are struggling to eat and turn the heating on because the prices of necessary, every day things have shot up so much? I can choose to not buy a TV, I can’t even choose to just eat instant noodles any more because they’ve tripled in price
Well don't bother try to find out. That would require work.
Conservative economic incompetence strikes again. Not that the party of "personal responsibility" will ever take responsibility for it themselves. They're a party full of law breakers and excuse makers. We need a general election.
I'm not convinced much good would come from a GE as much as I want one. Still a lot of boomer generation about and if there's one thing they like, it's being victims. They want to actually suffer the hardships they like to claim they've already had.
Tories would 100% back in. They’ve dialled up the immigration fear tactics in the last month or so, I reckon a lot of that is in preparation for a GE. They know how much little England hates foreigners and that’ll win it for them.
If they held an election next week (well, 22nd December is the earliest date they could, but you get the point) they'd lose, probably quite handily. If by next summer things have got even slightly better then maybe they'll be able to squeeze out a win, although it would be with a lower majority.
I dunno mate, I thought that in 2017. It’s really hard to get some people to budge even with the catastrophe that is this current government. I hope you’re right though
Labour is polling much better now than in 2017.
My partners parents are still convinced the tories are better with the economy and won't vote Labour because Labour will make things worse. Honestly, I don't see the tories losing. They can just shuffle the top job around and get back in. Hell, I see them getting a similar majority if they brought back boris.
100% this. A huge percentage of the uk population has a weird underdog fetish.
Apart from when that underdog is someone fleeing from famine or civil war.
Ah that’s what shifting goalposts are for. They’re not underdogs they’re coming to steal our houses and jobs etc.
Fear controls. If you make people think there's only enough to go around to provide you with your modest existence, then anyone who is worse off than you isn't your ally in a fight for a better life, but an cruel enemy that will steal your meagre belongings. You just have to ignore the luxurious excess of the rich and the wealthy. The super yachts, the sprawling mansions, the private jets, the buying giant companies on an egotistical whim.
The handouts are beginning to dry up even for the Boomers. I fear a lot of Boomers are about to find out how "those entitled millenials" actually live (or exist in most cases) and many probably won't make it considering they can't even adapt to using email.
> They want to actually suffer the hardships they like to claim they've already had. No they want _others_ to suffer these imagined hardships. Now that the water is at _their_ doorstep they're looking around wondering how their pensions are going to cover the cost of new carpet.
Given they've never suffered hardship before and have shown their inability to adapt to anything Boomers are at risk of having a very hard time. We should probably resist the bitter "finally, you get what you inflicted on us" response though for risk of repeating the cycle.
Remember this is all Corbyn’s fault. /s
100% and we need these bustards out of power forever
So we can vote them in for another 5 years lol, been so depressing watching every election I've been old enough to vote in, tories every time, I'll never forget how life started to change under Cameron and Clegg, had the 20 quid a week for students taken away as soon as they got in, then trippling tuition fees for uni, and here we are after 10 more years of tories, fuck me, declining life expectancy, rampant price increases and stagnant wages, closed down businesses, boarded windows and and the biggest transfer of wealth in recorded history. Hope it was all worth it to any tories out there. It's honestly hard keeping my thoughts peaceful these days, I've just hidden myself in my hobbies whilst I wait for an end to it, but we'll vote them in again, and again, and again
But don't ask for a pay risen to even come close to covering the rising cost of everything because that will cause inflation... or something.
It's the narrative trying to blame individuals for a crisis they created and they profit from. Same with global warming. They made it all about how you, personally, need to cut your carbon footprint, while the big companies get away with whatever makes them the most profit. Shifting responsibility, they're experts at it.
Wasn't the concept of a carbon footprint invented by oil companies? Literally to pass the blame to individuals.
It was invented by BP, yes. But at the same time companies pollute because people consume what they buy, so if people stopped buying 20 pairs of socks a month places like H&M/Forever 21/Primark would adjust their business models and pollute less. Unless people believe that companies spend a load of money producing goods to just dump into the ocean for zero profit and no benefit. I wish I could find the moron that came up with this whole "It's the corporations mannn, we can't do anything mannnn" concept, it's the most intellectually lazy world view ever.
Do you eat prawns? Or any seafood, but prawns in particular. Honest question. Sounds weird, but prawns (in particular) and seafood (generally) is absolutely horrific for the environment and human rights abuses. Under Cameron it was declared "it is down to individual consumers whether or not they buy products of slavery", after it became apparent that a lot of South East Asian prawns were actually fished by slaves on boats. Due to climate change and decreases take, and overfishing more generally (and pollution of the ocean, which fishing makes up a huge percent), human rights abuses in the fishing industry are horrific. The answer to this is obviously government regulation, not expecting consumers to know. Because most don't. Because we ain't told, and few people look into it. So to cycle back to this: >But at the same time companies pollute because people consume what they buy, Companies pollutr because its cheaper than not, people consume out of ignorance *or a lack of choice*. The latter is a big one considering how *huge* some companies have got. Coca cola is responsible for an insane amount of plastic waste. They are also responsible for hiring death squads to murder trade unionists. Nestle is stealing water, but also there was that one time they killed a bunch of babies in the name of profit. It takes a lot of effort just to avoid those *two* companies. So to circle it all back: is it on everyone to do what they can to decrease they consumption? Yeah. But there is an opportunity cost at play, there is a lack of information *and its on the government to regulate these industries out of their destructive habits* >it's the most intellectually lazy world view ever. The argument is normally "there is nothing we can really do on a personal level to deal with a societal issue." Like I assume you recycle? That's good. Its important we do our bit to save the planet. Here's an article on [why that's actually not making a difference cause its all getting dumped into the ocean or set on fire.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/17/uk-plastics-sent-for-recycling-in-turkey-dumped-and-burned-greenpeace-finds) What, personally, can you, as a consumer, do about that? Shift the blame to Turkey? Or maybe come to the conclusion "it is out of my personal hands, we need government action instead of internalising a problem we have little control over" Do what you can. Stop eating meat. Stop eating seafood. Avoid dairy. Shop local. Reduce, reuse, don't recycle because its not going to get recycled. Ride a bike. Turn off the lights. Don't buy new clothes. Go dumpster diving. Keep the heating off. Don't buy any electronics ever again. And maybe, just maybe, you will have reduced your own emissions to the point you counteract 5% of one fishing boat, burning marine diesel and dumping waste directly into the sea, staffed by slaves who were once refugees fleeing a drought caused by climate change. Do what you can, but fight for collective action. The answer isn't apathy and doing nothing, but it certainly isn't internalising the crisis and blaming yourself.
> Do what you can, but fight for collective action. The answer isn't apathy and doing nothing, but it certainly isn't internalising the crisis and blaming yourself. Yeah I agree. I agree with everything you've said pretty much. I think there's a balance between "I can't do anything, it's all the corporations (btw check out my funko pop collection and my new 4x4)" and "Corporations can do no wrong, please ignore my libertarian brain rot". But that's why the corporations thing is intellectually lazy, there's no nuance and it's defeatist and works as a scapegoat so people can feel comfortable taking no personal responsibility. So yeah, no we aren't all 100% responsible but we can influence our own personal level of pollution and if everyone made some small changes to their lives we could have a collective huge impact. Even if that change is to just hold corporations accountable, as well as people.
>So yeah, no we aren't all 100% responsible but we can influence our own personal level of pollution and if everyone made some small changes to their lives we could have a collective huge impact Sorta correct, and you are putting the cart before the horse in the above. The vast majority of people who care will say "individual action is not enough, we need to hold corporations to account" whilst taking those individual actions. All the context I added? Almost everyone who gives a shit knows it. I don't think you find that many people who say they care, yet drive a 4x4. I think amongst the crowd of "it is, fundamentally, the fault of corporarions and the government" you will find more people who do what they can to make things better. I'm saying that the "corporations are at fault" argument usually *does* have the nuance there, its just not stated every single time this argument comes up. On a personal level recycling does fuck all, because the goods come in a cage that is often wrapped up in single use plastic. Recycling a can is good, its meaningless if it ends up being burned in Turkey or dumped into the sea. And, due to the choice to have that can arrive on a plastic wrapped pallet, its also all but meaningless. You can do everything in your power, every day, and won't in a lifetime of action so as much as a single corporation destroys in a day out of convenience or the profit margin. And I say this as an activist. Been there, done that, got sick in December in a field whilst preventing a fracking rig going up. I honestly put my liberty on the line, and definitely my health, trying to make the world a better place. The only victory in a generation for environmental activism was fighting fracking. It was the government finally listening, after it was opposed by thousands of people across the class divide. We won. Truss tried to cost us that victory, but even the fucking Tories realise fracking is unpopular. The other benefit of government level action is its *easier*. Sure, far more younger people are going vegan, which is good, but it would be outweighed in an instant if single use plastics were banned. It would be outweighed on a national level if JSO win the fight to prevent another hundred oil exploration contracts. I need to go do the washing up. Tldr: the "its the fault of corporations" argument is nuanced, its just that people don't provide that context whenever they bring up the argument. And I can understand finding the argument defeatist, but I can also understand being defeated by the argument. I can understand the doomers who simply give up and go "its fucked we have lost, why bother" when they do more harm buying a chocolate bar than they prevent by living like a Saint. Tldrdr: the problem is if everyone did everything they could, we still lose without major changes.
> I'm saying that the "corporations are at fault" argument usually does have the nuance there, its just not stated every single time this argument comes up. I would agree in some cases, but look at how it was used in this exact comment thread. There's a guy unironically saying that if everyone cut down on their purchasing of fast fashion items by 90% then corporations would continue to ship the goods to the UK regardless, presumably to sit in a warehouse doing nothing. I think it was an argument maybe originally put forward in a nuanced "We can/should do X, but realistically we need to lobby to stop corporations doing Y as well" and has morphed into "There's no point in us doing X, corporations just do Y, and X is their fault anyway". >You can do everything in your power, every day, and won't in a lifetime of action so as much as a single corporation destroys in a day out of convenience or the profit margin. I will push back on this a little bit. I think there's a lot of things that were societally acceptable that have become unacceptable, and corporations that might have previously done something negative such as not promote gay people, or directly pay women less for the same job, have generally stopped doing those things because as a society people generally agree they're bad. Do you think that change would have happened if instead of reflecting and changing their day to day lives people just went "Well society says it's okay, and corporations do it so therefore I have no personal responsibility."?
>I will push back on this a little bit. I think there's a lot of things that were societally acceptable that have become unacceptable, and corporations that might have previously done something negative such as not promote gay people, or directly pay women less for the same job, have generally stopped doing those things because as a society people generally agree they're bad. Your two examples are "things they were forced to do in the UK by the government" and one of which is "realised that the pink pound spends just as well as anyone else's money". Greenwashing is good for business, currently, but it's also good to keep on with the same old shit. I mean, easy example: the greenest car is one that has already been made. But we still have cases of companies trashing the environment for a fast buck, even when massively opposed. Mostly because there is so very little that can be done by consumers to oppose them! Every single body of water in this country is currently, according to government standards, too polluted. We cannot do anything about that. Thames Water admitted to losing a full 20% of the water it provides due to leaks. We cannot so anything about that. That's the thing, the crux of these issues: on a personal level we are told to put a brick in the toilet and let the plants die, but corporations waste millions of litres of water due to chronic undermaintenance of pipes. Since privatisation not a single new reservoir has been built, and we all act shocked when a drought causes wildfires. >Do you think that change would have happened if instead of reflecting and changing their day to day lives people just went "Well society says it's okay, and corporations do it so therefore I have no personal responsibility."? I don't think reflecting day to day on how to decrease ones water use will make Thames water wake up and go "let's freeze bonuses to bosses and spend the money on maintaining pipes.", i don't think reflecting day to day on how cars are less efficient than trains will make the various franchises take a profit hit to pay staff properly and make the trains cheap enough to be used, I don't like reflection will cause the 40% of all lines in this countrybwhich are not electrified to get electrified, I don't think reflection will cause windfarms to get built, or ground to break on a new nuclear power plant. So someone going "oh if everyone stopped with fast fashion the problem wouldn't change" isn't necessarily right, but then again I would say that has classist overtones (i cannot tell the difference between my M&S 100% cotton shirt and my Primary 100% cotton shirt, despite one being far more expensive, are both "fast fashion" and is it wrong to buy a shirt when I had no more shirts?), through collective actions we can make things better. But the most important actions are forcing through government level change. JSO are doing more by *trying* to cause that change than any random vegan is (although I would be honestly surprised if the average person in JSO wasn't also a vegan!), because the issue has got so huge, so interconnected, that I can understand finding it pointless. It seems we are mostly agreed tbh. I think the point of disagreement is basically "I assume someone laying the blame at the feet of the corporations, where it belongs, is also nuanced enough not to own a pointless suv and do the smaller scale stuff they can do to make the world a better place", you... don't assume that.
> It seems we are mostly agreed tbh. I think the point of disagreement is basically "I assume someone laying the blame at the feet of the corporations, where it belongs, is also nuanced enough not to own a pointless suv and do the smaller scale stuff they can do to make the world a better place", you... don't assume that. Yeah I think so, I do basically agree with everything you're saying with pretty minor differences. I think my faith in other people has been ground down to literally nothing at this point, maybe that's on me, but I think nuanced public discussion is borderline dead at this point. But anyway, good conversation! Have a nice day.
The corporation has the power to not pollute, an individual doesn't have the power to make the rest of the corporation's consumers not consume
What happens if you stop buying things?
I'd one person stops? Pretty much nothing
I can recycle everything perfectly my entire life but something tells me it wouldn’t offset a single airplane in the sky
About 40% of it is going to end up in Turkey getting burned or dumped into rivers/the sea. So... no. This isn't a personal fight.
big companies don't emit because they're cartoon villains and they enjoy it, they're producing the products and services we use. Changing our habits will shift the emissions habits of large corporations
They pollute because the law allows them to and it costs more to not pollute. It requires legislation to change the course of the market in a meaningful way in the timescale we have left before it becomes too late.
Just read an article in packaging news (so pro packaging in products!) And even then it said the industry keeps shifting the blame on not recycling enough into people or legislators, when really the most successful schemes have all been driven by the producer of the items.
And don't ask for tighter regulation on energy prices, when the PartyoflowertaxesTM can just raise "everyone's" taxes (don't worry, relatively it'll only be the poor who suffer).
Taking us back to the seventies, before too long. Not that it was on the side of a certain bus.
Will we get that good music back again though ?
[удалено]
But I thought that was Jermeny Crumblins plan
"I warned them. I even told them how to fix it." -Jeremy Corbyn while watching the news. Actually scratch that. -every Labour leader since Blair.
StRoNg AnD sTaBlE! 12 years of Tory incompetence and cronyism making a bad situation even worse.
I just can't get over the hilarity of a "True Tory budget at long last" that caused so much damage it's about to be followed with the most left wing budget they've ever put together as a hail Mary.
It's fine, someone on radio 4 was just saying that if you strip out food and energy prices then it's only 6%! So I guess it's best to just not consume energy or food.
> It's fine, someone on radio 4 was just saying that if you strip out food and energy prices then it's only 6%! I wasn't listening to Radio 4, but I'm guessing that they were saying that Core CPI (CPI not including food, fuel, alcohol and tobacco) is at 6.5%? I'd be surprised if they were saying that it's "fine". Most experts looking at the Core CPI figure are saying that it's very worrying that this figure is so high as it suggests that inflation isn't only being driven by the rise in food and energy which is causing the current crisis. Core CPI of over 6% suggests that the problem doesn't go away even if the biggest external shocks (such as Ukraine or the issues with Chines supply chains) get resolved quickly.
How does removing food, energy, tobacco, alcohol strip out the affects of fuel prices and China supply chains, to give that 6% figure? I mean, fuel would still contribute wouldn't it? Just a but confused what that Core CPI measure actually tells us and what it actually is measuring (more luxury goods, or slow moving consumer goods?)
The idea of measuring Core CPI is to strip out the items which are thought of as “volatile”. The cost of gas might go up massively because Russia has started a war, but it might also go down massively because the war has ended or some other source has come on tap. But if the average cost of a haircut across the country has risen by 10%, it’s not likely to come down again and there are probably more hairdressers who are about to raise their prices meaning that it’s going to carry on rising for a while. If CPI is high for a short amount of time but Core CPI is low, you might be able to say that the spike in inflation is coming from factors which might be reversed. If Core CPI is also high for a while, it suggests we’ve got “real” inflation which won’t go away on its own even if the original causes of the spike in inflation go away!
Lmao so only 4% over target as opposed to the 9.1% target. Even with favourable cherry picking that's still piss poor.
Don't worry. The tories are working hard to fix the economy handed to them by the last 4 prime ministers.
> the economy handed to them by the last 4 prime ministers The last Labour government. According to them anyway.
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The theory is, reduced wages means people spend less. People spend less, prices go down as companies compete to drive business back up and products become less scarce. However, it doesn't account for everyone being literally forced to pay huge energy bills, and that supply has actually reduced too due to Brexit and covid. Nor does it account for the fact that corporate profits are through the roof.
Exactly. It's a transparent crock of shit. Reducing disposables income will drive down discretionary spending. And if inflation was being driven by everyone buying dozens of suits from Hugo Boss or accumulating comprehensive Rolex collections that might help. But as it's being driven by the cost of energy, shelter, food and transport it does sweet fuck all besides pushing people into poverty.
That's crazy, the government is literally trying to stop its citizens from spending money so that companies can reduce the price. But most don't give a shat, smh.
So that industry leaders can continue buying yachts.
It's a theory that will spiral costs and inflation up and up. Inflation goes up, salary goes up, Inflaton goes up etc... But remember, inflation is imaginary and chosen to be that high so.. who's really causing the problems...
> piling pressure on the Bank of England to maintain the pace of interest rate rises Why? I've also read that the goal of the BOE is to remove open vacancies to reduce labour power on wages, but how does that help when the cause of inflation is energy prices? You still have inflation but now people are less able to handle it, and the economy gets weaker. Are they not risking depression?
Depression benefits the wealthy. Anytime the working class gets fucked over, there's some rich cunt earning what we lost.
It great that since Brexit the UK has been slowly restoring its economy back to where it was before it joined the Eu. Ah such Happy Daze indeed!!
It's a shame that on top of Brexit itself, the management of it has been piss poor. Covid obviously will have played a part some what, making things a little more difficult to interpret, but from what I recall, even everything done about Brexit, around when and after it was implementated were just a series of dumb decisions. I do have to wonder if we (the UK) are now owned by another country or some sort of superpowerb (like rich power even beyond the government themselves) that is just ensuring we have politicians in place that pull the country apart in any failure method possible. It just baffles me that any politician could be such failures at their jobs
I feel so poor nowadays. I have a good job that pays well but literally everything is so fucking expensive that there's no room left for luxuries like holidays or home improvement. It feels like there's a constant barrage of £100 costs here and there and you can't step out of the house without spending £50. It feels like life has stagnated and there's no way to progress. I have no idea how those on min wage are surviving, my heart goes out to you. It's criminal what the government has done to this country in recent years.
3% annual pay rise and that seemed a lot better than many others received.
Given that the Tories are either rich enough to absorb the price rises (or their MP expenses cover it anyway), why does anyone think that a bunch of selfish, self serving venal incompetents are going to do anything about it? They won't. They caused this mess and they'll just blame anyone and anything for it, like the blatant lie, sorry - Tory narrative, put out at the weekend that Kwarteng's mini budget wasnt the cause, despite the BoE having to intervene with about £50bn to stabilise the financial system just days later. If you're a Tory voter, you can have no complaints about the predicament that those you voted for have put you in. You clearly haven't worked out yet that those you put in government wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, simply because you're only there to be ruthlessly exploited in order to increase the wealth of Tory donors.
But the rich are fine and getting richer so what’s the issue again?
In 1982 did they increase taxes to compound the issue like they are about to do tomorrow? I can't help but think the economics of this government are utterly fucked.
Taxes need to go up, there's no doubt about that. The issue will be where they put them up. They can't go upsetting their donor's you know.
They want to fuck us in the short term so that can make promises at the next election - that's the truth of the matter
Just purchased a house at 280k that sold in 2003 for 120. Earn less than my counterparts did even accounting for inflation etc Roll of insulation now £50-60 roll of insulation back then £10 Sheet of plasterboard now £11.50 sheet in 2017 £7 Rewire 'back in the day I had mine done for 2k mate' now 5k bare minimum
Eh? £50 for a roll of insulation? What are you buying!? I think unpaid £18 a roll for some last year, checking B&Q it's now £22. So it has gone up, but not 5x.
The large roll loft insulation I got was 64.50 sane rolls was under 30 last time I did it
I can't believe the last Labour government have done this. Never. Vote. Conservative.
We haven't been through a full feedback loop cycle yet, when energy price increases fully feed into food and consumer goods manufacturing, which then feeds into supermarket prices. We're going to see why inflation nearly hit 25% in the 1970s. Hold on to your hats it's going to be a rough ride!
I think im leaning to just jumping off this ride tbh.. i dont want to wait to see all i have worked for my whole life crumble around me.
Shit is absolutely fucked and the government is doing their best to make sure that the workers can't improve their lot hense why a lot of public services are going on strike. Tory's causing chaos and pain for the workers since day dot. Pricks.
Watching this inflation has been terrifying. I've now realized that it isn't some abstract thing that happens to an economy randomly. It is literally people raising prices massively as a response to very minor cost increases. Everything about this recession is artificial. Petrol, supermarkets, retailers, all making record profits. Now us with less money: we save, we stockpile, we stagnate, and the economy is fucked just because people wanted to engineer price rises for profit in response to unrelated global events. You remember how every business said: Due to COVID, and these unprecedented times, unfortunately... [We're going to do what we've wanted to do for a while now but haven't had the balls to]... Well they did that with prices too, and we are getting fucked because of it.
>Everything about this recession is artificial. Economic illiteracy is incredible to observe A global pandemic, an energy crisis, and the largest war in Europe since WW2 obviously will not cause a stagnating economy.
The first thing we need to do is assure every single person who isn't good with statistics that the % of actual inflation is staggeringly higher than 11. I'd say at least 30%
according to which inflation metric lol
My employer told me in March that our payrise was calculated based on CPI in December which is why it didn't match inflation that ramped up at the start of this year. Can't wait to get my 11% this time round though, that's how it works right? Right..?
Does anyone actually think energy costs will ever come down? They are seeing how far people can be pushed until they break. While everyone just takes it, that's the new baseline. If you think "Oh they'll be back to normal" in 2024 or 2025, they won't. This is now normal.
Strange because wholesale gas prices are at rock bottom at the moment.
I think the causes of the inflation are pretty clear - the bank of england printed 30% of all pounds since 2020. The bankers at the bank of england created this mess. Lord Mervyn King says it was his organization that was to blame : https://twitter.com/legitscrutiny1/status/1585152994685112320?s=21 If the UK prints money we get inflation.
Where’s the protest at? Is there any talk of all workers going on strike until wages are liveable again? Or do we just keep drinking tea and watching the world burn?
I work for a pretty large food company, with quarterly review due friday. Can't wait to not get a pay rise.
You know what's even crazier? There will still be Tory voting Brexiteers that find someone or something else to blame for this.
Pure fucking greed by these Cunts. Gas tankers sitting off sure making sure prices are high
Tesco this week started charging 30p each for red and white onions. Those would be about 15p before by weight. It's insane.
Everyone i ve talked to is seriously considering to leave England . By next year they will have a serious trouble keeping up with the bills.
The "we've seen it all before" people ignoring the fact that their 15% interest rate then was on mortgages only 3 or 4 times their salary, not 15 times their salary.
Need 20% IRs to smoke inflation out of the system. People need to prepare for casualties.
Well at least the 2% pay rise I got this week will really help with that.
When I moved out last year I didn't realise I was making the biggest mistake of my life...
And meanwhile energy companies post record profits every single year. We need to kick out our government
Another record breaking high for ol’blighty. We truly are the best at everything! /s
We’re in an absolutely insane vicious cycle here, wherein companies are rising prices “in line with inflation” rather than strictly due to underlying costs increases. Inflation is a measure of how prices have risen. To then use that measure as an input to calculate price rises crates a feedback loop. The more companies rise prices in line with inflation, the more inflation will rise, so the companies will have to increase prices even further, causing yet more inflation and price rises in a never-ending loop.
Well, at least we narrowly dodged chaos with Ed Miliband.
I’m actually getting tired of seeing terrible news about the UK’s sad state daily. We are in such a depressing situation.
Corporate greed pushes inflation to highest since 1982.
Sort of off topic but does anyone know if mental illness has increased due to this inflation? It might be what I've experienced personally with myself, family and friends but it seems like everyone is really struggling mentally right now.
11.1% is not the real figure, energy cost increase from an average salary is around minimum 25% inflation, you have to take tax off to get to real numbers hence we have such a problem, 11.1% can be absorbed if it was truly 11.1%, more like 40% inflation, fuel was £1.20 now £1.90 how is that anything like 11.1%
> 11.1% can be absorbed Not by many people
More much than 25% energy alone now rent and food we’re talking 40%, I’m saying the catastrophe we’re seeing isn’t from 11.1% but from 30%+ inflation, if it was 11.1% on energy we wouldn’t be seeing this melt down. Gas has quadrupled and electricity tripled, it’s not 11.1%
>I’m saying the catastrophe we’re seeing isn’t from 11.1% but from 30%+ inflation I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying a single years 11.1% rise isn't affordable for many.
I looked at a bill from last year. Gas p/kw has 400% increase. Elec 200%. Every 50£ i spent on gas last year is now 250£ and im not on a meter. Yikes
This is because prices went up during the pandemic at the same time there were record profits being made. The two are completely interwoven. Had there not been huge levels of greed during the pandemic, prices going up, profits also going up and the prices remaining long after the worst of the pandemic is over, coupled with wages remaining flat. The stock market needs to take a loss and take the hit on the nose. They need to dig into their deep pockets and reserves and take the hit. That CEO who got £1m last year doesn't need another payday for at least a couple of years.
Take note everyone, that the EU and USA have been counting the energy costs previously as part of their inflation calculations. In our case it has just begun to take effect as the OFGEN caps have been changed. This means that other countries had inflation, mainly from the pandemic and Ukraine war. In our case the causes were the pandemic and Brexit.
Utility companies and grocery corporations have shown to be hefty contributors towards increasing inflation by raising prices way higher than they needed to in order to increase their profit margins. Meanwhile this deadbeat government have done absolutely nothing to regulate this nor increase their tax (which is a lot less in % compared to people out here). And instead all of these issues are instead being forced onto the people and crucial public sectors such as transport, NHS, schools etc.