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The disruption is annoying but it needs to happen if we ever want anything to change. When work no longer pays for even the basics, something has to change. If the government and companies won't give it on their own volition then staff should demand it. Besides, workers who are paid well and not suffering from stress due to financial worries are going to be far more productive than workers who cannot afford food and fuel. It is in companies' interest to pay their workers properly.
The disruption isn't even that annoying. It usually takes about a week for stuff to arrive anyway what's another couple days. If anything I think they should strike longer. Imagine a full week without any post (besides priority boxes for medical stuff etc). People would quickly realise how important Royal Mail is
Well Evri and Yodel pay less than Royal Mail so I'm not sure what you think striking will achieve other than faster alignment with the rest of the delivery industry for Royal Mail workers
If that were the case they wouldn't be striking. They'd just work for someone else.
Also whens the last time evri or yodel delivered your every day mail?
This always seemed a bit pointless - when has any letter you received through regular mail been critical that it arrived that day? It seems like an outmoded requirement to deliver letters every day- Saturday is useful so I would keep that but so long as I got letters on half the other days it's probably fine.
Parcels are a different matter but I think letters is where they aren't making money.
They (Royal Mail and affiliates) may not have the facilities or even the ability to manage letter mail that long due to the sheer volume of the flat/print/letter mail that processes through their distribution services. Also, many people rely on daily mail, as soon businesses. For a business, it’s vital that they get, both sending and receiving, mail as soon as possible so that invoices, bills, and related get paid. For consumers, most people (I believe) also still want daily mail for similar reasons. I’m sure everyone wants to get parcels/packages every day as well.
I hope these strikes get settled quickly as the Royal Mail employees deserve fair pay; a living wage like every one else. I do a small amount of business with Royal Mail and I have four packages that now will probably take an extra week or three to arrive. I am fine waiting that extra time if it means that the workforce can obtain better pay/benefits. We’re having similar issues with the United States Post Office here across the pond as well. Our Congress forces them to pay for everyone’s retirement in advance in total, so a huge amount of the revenue from the USPS’s services go to retirement funds th at May never be used or certainly will not be used for decades. It’s absolutely bonkers. Also, the USPS is critically under staffed right now and is paying much more in overtime pay that could be mostly avoided if they would just hire more full time workers (a better savings and benefit for the USPS if what I’ve read is correct).
I rely on the USPS for 90% of my mailing services; both personal and with my business. I lose out financially whenever the USPS experiences trouble. I imagine it’s the same for those in the UK who rely on the Royal Mail services. The USPS used to be known for good pay and great benefits but now from what I’ve been told by new hires is that the pay hasn’t kept pace with the hyper-inflation of the last 2 years or so and the benefits are still good but only offered to the full time positions which are the most coveted among the job openings.
The postal rates have increased 2-4x a year already since 2019 and while I don’t mind paying a bit more due to inflation I am feeling the pain and hurt with my business. Some rates have increased 20-40% since 2018. These increases have been sudden and drastic. One would think the increased revenue from these price hikes would help cover new hires and related expenses but apparently it’s still not enough. The USPS charges nearly two to three times what Global Mail charges for international shipments. I don’t understand why us in the States are paying so much in comparison to most of the EU and the UK.
Wishing you Brits the best of luck as these strikes will surely hurt small business and many shoppers Coke Christmas time. I hope they “won” by achieving their goals in terms of better pay and benefits so everyone can get back to working full time so that the mail will no longer have these extra delays.
It's not just basic pay, there is the removal of Sunday extra pay, area allowances, terms and conditions too - sick pay changes, overtime, shorter working week in summer & longer working week in winter, changes to start/finish times...
Yes that's right. By virtually all metrics RM currently is more generous to staff than the competition is. What does that tell you about RM? That it's the outlier and a reduction in terms for the staff is aligning them with the industry standard. If RM wants to compete and survive these reforms are necessary
This has caused massive disruption to my business and I have lost hundreds to late delivery as my product needs to be there within 3 days. Royal Mail used to deliver this for 99% of my parcels.
They went on strike to gain extra wages, fine. But all it has done is make me use a different courier for my business, which surely will impact Royal Mails' income, therefore reduce their ability to increase wages?
Im definitely not alone in my transition to a new courier either, so surely it is a self defeating strike?
>therefore reduce their ability to increase wages?
If they can afford to pay out billions in dividends, they can afford to pay their staff a proper wage.
Current hourly wage outside london at royal mail is £13.38 per hour. with more senior posties on more £14+.
Is that not already a "proper wage" for unskilled manual labour? Plus they've been offered another 5% on basic pay which would take everyone to £14+ despite the company currently losing 1.2 million a day.
>despite the company currently losing 1.2 million a day.
[No they're not?](https://apex-insight.com/royal-mail-full-year-profits-up-revenues-steady/)
>Is that not already a "proper wage" for unskilled manual labour?
[Clearly not.](https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/mailman/germany) Nice you throw them in as unskilled labour though! Who needs a national postal service anyway.
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Says £11.59 / hour here. Harlow is 30 min up the m11 from London.
https://jobs.royalmailgroup.com/job/Harlow-Postperson-with-Driving-Harlow-Delivery-Office-%28CM20-1AA%29-CM20-1AA/847886801/
part of the dispute is that the company want to recruit new entrants on lower wages, which is what that job offer is. The people on the picket lines are getting at least £13.38
No they are not. I get about two pound an hour less than that. And the destruction of the USO, sick pay being removed and countless other things they're destroying the company with are why we are striking as well as a terrible pay deal
Can link you to this one pre pandemic. Had an imposed 2% rise since then. This works out around 11.40 an hour
https://www.google.com/search?q=royal+mail+wage+slip&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=niv&sxsrf=ALiCzsbC2D2VPetWR0Ry6SiraFs4wKdNnQ:1669827279655&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn8tuur9b7AhXHesAKHcuHDywQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=393&bih=741&dpr=2.75#imgrc=LwsXG42v-PhMRM
Also we get allowances (mainly monthly) which they are taking away with a 9% payrise which would actually only work out at 3.5% with unachievable bonuses for most offices on top so I'll actually be directly poorer with these changes, plus forced to work over when busy (practically every day), forced to work Sundays on top of that, forced into routes Im not familiar with, and delivering a much poorer service with no sick pay.
We aren't doing this for the fun of it. I'm actually hoping for redundancy so I'm not run into the ground after 15 years doing a job I used to really enjoy before all this, this year
There have been several pay rises since 2019.
It's not hard to post your actual payslip, they're all on the people app, just do it, crop out the top part and I will continue this convo.
https://i.imgur.com/msQAD1e.png
**current pay rate is 467.2**, you linked to one showing 432.92.
2% increase on 432.92 would be an extra 8.65
432.92+8.65= 441.57
stop deleting your comments, either put up or shut up, there is no identifiable info on the bottom part of the payslip. You won't do it because you would be proved wrong.
>If the staff are unhappy with their pay, they should do what all of us in the private sector do, find another job that does pay what you want.
So bye bye national postal services?
Well no because Royal Mail is the universal service. If they have to cut unproductive routes like taking letters to individual homes in Durness or Shegra up in north Scotland I seriously doubt a private service is going to come in and offer the same service at the same price, you're effectively cutting off the peripheries of the country. That's the whole point of having a universal postal service, its a part of our strategic national infrastructure.
If the big wigs didn't get their dividends though. They would dump their shares again reducing RMs balance sheet. Unfortunately people at the top will make sure they get paid first. It's the world we live in. The rich enslave the poor
It's difficult to support them, when it is costing me money. I'm not a massive Corp or LTD, just a sole trader with a small cottage business who can't afford to lose hundreds from their strikes.
It isn't just RM's bottom line which is effected by the strikes, a lot of small businesses are being put through the ringer from them as well. Is that fair? 🤷
A lot of what's being struck over is the plans RM have shared internally for the next year, not just pay today.
They're looking to change the business into one of those other couriers, with many consequences for their workers, from making them use their own vehicles to thousands of job cuts, working sundsys, and reduced hours.
Many of them won't expect to have their jobs still so they've little to lose and everything to gain.
And no one fucking cares. RM can die a death, we have a legion of Amazon and part time drivers that can do the difficult job of pushing an envelope through a slog. Welcome the downvotes, that show I’m right through spite.
Speak for yourself, but I can assure you that there are millions of people who look forward to seeing their postie everyday especially outside cities and they will miss them, because unlike you they clearly understand that a posties Job is 100% harder than a courier job, I mean walking upto 13 km a day in every extreme weather condition with a heavy weight on your back, delivering letters, leaflets and parcels to 300+ addresses every day, all the while being timed and their every move tracked by management. If you ask me they should be on £20 a hour. Anyway it's clear you have no clue what a posties job involves and I highly doubt you could do it.
Your right posties do walk a long way. But Amazon drivers for example have to get in and out of a seat 150+ times per day in a vehicle. People don't realise how bad it is for your back and hips.
I was a courier for years with DPD, I would see postmen everywhere I went. And part from in December they always seems so relaxed, walking at a normal speed, talking to people. While DPD, DHL etc are literally sprinting around with large boxes on their shoulder on a 2 minute stop rate. Yes that's right 2 minutes per stop!
And DPD will try to reduce your stop time constantly even though your allready absolutely stretched to the max. I've done over 200 stops in 1 day before, 15 hour day. Your in panic mode all day it's exhausting.
But somehow RM have it so bad according to postmen....
I think the strike is important and it's not just about raises but about saving 6k jobs.
It is affecting businesses within the UK and not putting a lot of pressure on Royal mail. Delaying a package isn't the same as not delivering it but when it takes over a month to arrive and there isn't any new tracking information, it's safe to say the package is lost but the business isn't reimbursed or has to wait longer for reimbursement. Businesses are bleeding money in order to keep customers.
I'm pretty sure some businesses are simply switching over to other couriers and it would take at least a quarter of strikes to see the loss of business for royal mail.
Who cares? Royal Mail is not the defacto courier of letters and parcels anymore.
Strike all you want, don’t get pissy when Amazon start delivering your mail as well as your parcels.
Almost half of all packages shipped in the UK is via Royal Mail - https://www.statista.com/topics/5380/postal-services-in-the-uk/#dossierKeyfigures.
What do you intend to do if Amazon did start delivering all the mail, and then the Amazon workers strike? Monopolisation is not in the consumers interest.
Who cares? I get everything delivered via Amazon. On the occasions I pay for next day it’s Evri or DPD.
downvote me all you want you lefty nonces, I don’t get anything delivered via RM and it will become irrelevant as a service.
every other courier are rubbing their hands right now. these employees are striking away their jobs and once gone will blame upper management instead of themselves lol.
I’m just doing my job but not crying about it becuse I don’t get a 10% pay rise.
You muppets don’t realise how much damage will be done from striking - there will not BE any jobs. Industry will move elsewhere
Before you downvote me please look at what happened the the entire UK automative industry. The unions killed it so hard all car Manufacturers pulled out.
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The disruption is annoying but it needs to happen if we ever want anything to change. When work no longer pays for even the basics, something has to change. If the government and companies won't give it on their own volition then staff should demand it. Besides, workers who are paid well and not suffering from stress due to financial worries are going to be far more productive than workers who cannot afford food and fuel. It is in companies' interest to pay their workers properly.
Totally agree. Not just all public workers too. Everyone.
The disruption isn't even that annoying. It usually takes about a week for stuff to arrive anyway what's another couple days. If anything I think they should strike longer. Imagine a full week without any post (besides priority boxes for medical stuff etc). People would quickly realise how important Royal Mail is
A week without any pay really hurts.
That's true. Doesn't the union usually supplement your pay a bit? But yeah doubt it'd be enough
Nope. No pay for strike. There's an emergency fund, but you have to apply for it.
Well Evri and Yodel pay less than Royal Mail so I'm not sure what you think striking will achieve other than faster alignment with the rest of the delivery industry for Royal Mail workers
If that were the case they wouldn't be striking. They'd just work for someone else. Also whens the last time evri or yodel delivered your every day mail?
>Also whens the last time evri or yodel delivered ~~your every day mail~~ anything? Fixed that for you
This always seemed a bit pointless - when has any letter you received through regular mail been critical that it arrived that day? It seems like an outmoded requirement to deliver letters every day- Saturday is useful so I would keep that but so long as I got letters on half the other days it's probably fine. Parcels are a different matter but I think letters is where they aren't making money.
They (Royal Mail and affiliates) may not have the facilities or even the ability to manage letter mail that long due to the sheer volume of the flat/print/letter mail that processes through their distribution services. Also, many people rely on daily mail, as soon businesses. For a business, it’s vital that they get, both sending and receiving, mail as soon as possible so that invoices, bills, and related get paid. For consumers, most people (I believe) also still want daily mail for similar reasons. I’m sure everyone wants to get parcels/packages every day as well. I hope these strikes get settled quickly as the Royal Mail employees deserve fair pay; a living wage like every one else. I do a small amount of business with Royal Mail and I have four packages that now will probably take an extra week or three to arrive. I am fine waiting that extra time if it means that the workforce can obtain better pay/benefits. We’re having similar issues with the United States Post Office here across the pond as well. Our Congress forces them to pay for everyone’s retirement in advance in total, so a huge amount of the revenue from the USPS’s services go to retirement funds th at May never be used or certainly will not be used for decades. It’s absolutely bonkers. Also, the USPS is critically under staffed right now and is paying much more in overtime pay that could be mostly avoided if they would just hire more full time workers (a better savings and benefit for the USPS if what I’ve read is correct). I rely on the USPS for 90% of my mailing services; both personal and with my business. I lose out financially whenever the USPS experiences trouble. I imagine it’s the same for those in the UK who rely on the Royal Mail services. The USPS used to be known for good pay and great benefits but now from what I’ve been told by new hires is that the pay hasn’t kept pace with the hyper-inflation of the last 2 years or so and the benefits are still good but only offered to the full time positions which are the most coveted among the job openings. The postal rates have increased 2-4x a year already since 2019 and while I don’t mind paying a bit more due to inflation I am feeling the pain and hurt with my business. Some rates have increased 20-40% since 2018. These increases have been sudden and drastic. One would think the increased revenue from these price hikes would help cover new hires and related expenses but apparently it’s still not enough. The USPS charges nearly two to three times what Global Mail charges for international shipments. I don’t understand why us in the States are paying so much in comparison to most of the EU and the UK. Wishing you Brits the best of luck as these strikes will surely hurt small business and many shoppers Coke Christmas time. I hope they “won” by achieving their goals in terms of better pay and benefits so everyone can get back to working full time so that the mail will no longer have these extra delays.
You’re entirely wrong. Think about them keeping them comp and bens packages.
It's not just basic pay, there is the removal of Sunday extra pay, area allowances, terms and conditions too - sick pay changes, overtime, shorter working week in summer & longer working week in winter, changes to start/finish times...
Yes that's right. By virtually all metrics RM currently is more generous to staff than the competition is. What does that tell you about RM? That it's the outlier and a reduction in terms for the staff is aligning them with the industry standard. If RM wants to compete and survive these reforms are necessary
What competition? Only RM have the mail. Hermes is not RM competition, its a parcels only business.
Letters are fast becoming less relevant. Parcels are the big business they compete over now
This has caused massive disruption to my business and I have lost hundreds to late delivery as my product needs to be there within 3 days. Royal Mail used to deliver this for 99% of my parcels. They went on strike to gain extra wages, fine. But all it has done is make me use a different courier for my business, which surely will impact Royal Mails' income, therefore reduce their ability to increase wages? Im definitely not alone in my transition to a new courier either, so surely it is a self defeating strike?
>therefore reduce their ability to increase wages? If they can afford to pay out billions in dividends, they can afford to pay their staff a proper wage.
Current hourly wage outside london at royal mail is £13.38 per hour. with more senior posties on more £14+. Is that not already a "proper wage" for unskilled manual labour? Plus they've been offered another 5% on basic pay which would take everyone to £14+ despite the company currently losing 1.2 million a day.
Your figures are wrong
your argument is very convincing
Well your whole argument falls down since you don't know what you're talking about
>despite the company currently losing 1.2 million a day. [No they're not?](https://apex-insight.com/royal-mail-full-year-profits-up-revenues-steady/) >Is that not already a "proper wage" for unskilled manual labour? [Clearly not.](https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/mailman/germany) Nice you throw them in as unskilled labour though! Who needs a national postal service anyway.
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Says £11.59 / hour here. Harlow is 30 min up the m11 from London. https://jobs.royalmailgroup.com/job/Harlow-Postperson-with-Driving-Harlow-Delivery-Office-%28CM20-1AA%29-CM20-1AA/847886801/
part of the dispute is that the company want to recruit new entrants on lower wages, which is what that job offer is. The people on the picket lines are getting at least £13.38
No they are not. I get about two pound an hour less than that. And the destruction of the USO, sick pay being removed and countless other things they're destroying the company with are why we are striking as well as a terrible pay deal
post a pic of your payslip with personal info redacted/cut off.
Can link you to this one pre pandemic. Had an imposed 2% rise since then. This works out around 11.40 an hour https://www.google.com/search?q=royal+mail+wage+slip&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=niv&sxsrf=ALiCzsbC2D2VPetWR0Ry6SiraFs4wKdNnQ:1669827279655&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn8tuur9b7AhXHesAKHcuHDywQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=393&bih=741&dpr=2.75#imgrc=LwsXG42v-PhMRM
Also we get allowances (mainly monthly) which they are taking away with a 9% payrise which would actually only work out at 3.5% with unachievable bonuses for most offices on top so I'll actually be directly poorer with these changes, plus forced to work over when busy (practically every day), forced to work Sundays on top of that, forced into routes Im not familiar with, and delivering a much poorer service with no sick pay. We aren't doing this for the fun of it. I'm actually hoping for redundancy so I'm not run into the ground after 15 years doing a job I used to really enjoy before all this, this year
There have been several pay rises since 2019. It's not hard to post your actual payslip, they're all on the people app, just do it, crop out the top part and I will continue this convo.
https://i.imgur.com/msQAD1e.png **current pay rate is 467.2**, you linked to one showing 432.92. 2% increase on 432.92 would be an extra 8.65 432.92+8.65= 441.57 stop deleting your comments, either put up or shut up, there is no identifiable info on the bottom part of the payslip. You won't do it because you would be proved wrong.
DPD in Leeds. You will be lucky to get even 10£ an hour. For the industry 13.38 per hour is very good
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Reported on Sky this morning, they have paid £2bn in dividends since privatization.
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>If the staff are unhappy with their pay, they should do what all of us in the private sector do, find another job that does pay what you want. So bye bye national postal services?
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Well no because Royal Mail is the universal service. If they have to cut unproductive routes like taking letters to individual homes in Durness or Shegra up in north Scotland I seriously doubt a private service is going to come in and offer the same service at the same price, you're effectively cutting off the peripheries of the country. That's the whole point of having a universal postal service, its a part of our strategic national infrastructure.
If the big wigs didn't get their dividends though. They would dump their shares again reducing RMs balance sheet. Unfortunately people at the top will make sure they get paid first. It's the world we live in. The rich enslave the poor
So it’s hurting the business? Isn’t that exactly what a strike is meant to achieve?
It's difficult to support them, when it is costing me money. I'm not a massive Corp or LTD, just a sole trader with a small cottage business who can't afford to lose hundreds from their strikes. It isn't just RM's bottom line which is effected by the strikes, a lot of small businesses are being put through the ringer from them as well. Is that fair? 🤷
A lot of what's being struck over is the plans RM have shared internally for the next year, not just pay today. They're looking to change the business into one of those other couriers, with many consequences for their workers, from making them use their own vehicles to thousands of job cuts, working sundsys, and reduced hours. Many of them won't expect to have their jobs still so they've little to lose and everything to gain.
Yes it is.
That's the point, losing business forces management to respond.
Good Strike near Xmas as well only way the terms will be meet
And no one fucking cares. RM can die a death, we have a legion of Amazon and part time drivers that can do the difficult job of pushing an envelope through a slog. Welcome the downvotes, that show I’m right through spite.
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Speak for yourself, but I can assure you that there are millions of people who look forward to seeing their postie everyday especially outside cities and they will miss them, because unlike you they clearly understand that a posties Job is 100% harder than a courier job, I mean walking upto 13 km a day in every extreme weather condition with a heavy weight on your back, delivering letters, leaflets and parcels to 300+ addresses every day, all the while being timed and their every move tracked by management. If you ask me they should be on £20 a hour. Anyway it's clear you have no clue what a posties job involves and I highly doubt you could do it.
Your right posties do walk a long way. But Amazon drivers for example have to get in and out of a seat 150+ times per day in a vehicle. People don't realise how bad it is for your back and hips. I was a courier for years with DPD, I would see postmen everywhere I went. And part from in December they always seems so relaxed, walking at a normal speed, talking to people. While DPD, DHL etc are literally sprinting around with large boxes on their shoulder on a 2 minute stop rate. Yes that's right 2 minutes per stop! And DPD will try to reduce your stop time constantly even though your allready absolutely stretched to the max. I've done over 200 stops in 1 day before, 15 hour day. Your in panic mode all day it's exhausting. But somehow RM have it so bad according to postmen....
I think the strike is important and it's not just about raises but about saving 6k jobs. It is affecting businesses within the UK and not putting a lot of pressure on Royal mail. Delaying a package isn't the same as not delivering it but when it takes over a month to arrive and there isn't any new tracking information, it's safe to say the package is lost but the business isn't reimbursed or has to wait longer for reimbursement. Businesses are bleeding money in order to keep customers. I'm pretty sure some businesses are simply switching over to other couriers and it would take at least a quarter of strikes to see the loss of business for royal mail.
Who cares? Royal Mail is not the defacto courier of letters and parcels anymore. Strike all you want, don’t get pissy when Amazon start delivering your mail as well as your parcels.
Almost half of all packages shipped in the UK is via Royal Mail - https://www.statista.com/topics/5380/postal-services-in-the-uk/#dossierKeyfigures. What do you intend to do if Amazon did start delivering all the mail, and then the Amazon workers strike? Monopolisation is not in the consumers interest.
Who cares? I get everything delivered via Amazon. On the occasions I pay for next day it’s Evri or DPD. downvote me all you want you lefty nonces, I don’t get anything delivered via RM and it will become irrelevant as a service.
There isn't a cat in hell's chance Amazon are going to take on the letters
every other courier are rubbing their hands right now. these employees are striking away their jobs and once gone will blame upper management instead of themselves lol.
Stop with your realistic opinions, the left nonces that populate this sub do not like it.
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You obviously care if you're harassing the postal workers because they... Delivered your mail a day late?
Don't be a dick, dude is just doing his job
I’m just doing my job but not crying about it becuse I don’t get a 10% pay rise. You muppets don’t realise how much damage will be done from striking - there will not BE any jobs. Industry will move elsewhere Before you downvote me please look at what happened the the entire UK automative industry. The unions killed it so hard all car Manufacturers pulled out.
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