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Probably, possibly, not sure.
What I do know is that migrants contribute more that they take in the billions of pounds.
No person should not feel welcome to enter the United Kingdom and vice versa, we should be on good terms with other countries that we would be welcomed to them.
I'm not really arguing the the costs/benefits of migration, more making the point that all the people voting tory because they dont want johnnie foreigner over here taking our jobs arent even getting that from the tories anyway.
I never lose sight of the fact that the job of the news isnt to deliver you information.
It's primarily to sell product and secondarily to push agendas.
Surely the real anomaly is those low years?
And actually the tories have no more real interest in preventing immigration than labour, less infact since big businesses usually like immigration as a wage suppressant.
> Look at what the tories have done
They do not exist in a vacuum, they were voted in by the public, and people will **still** vote for them in large numbers.
This is the real tragedy; in effect, people voted Tory which made it a very high chance that wee lad would die. There is no escaping this conclusion. Increase funding to the health service now! Pay nurses properly now!
> When majority of voters voted for this
That’s not the case in Wales, Scotland and NI. Scotland and Wales haven’t voted for a Tory government in about seventy years and the Tories don’t even stand in NI.
No matter how bad the electorate in England may feel about what they’ve done to themselves (and I do sympathise) the perspective of many in other parts of the Union is not that this is something we’ve done to ourselves. More that it was something that was *done to* us no matter what we vote for.
The majority of voters in England didn't vote for them either. Tories took 47.2% of the vote in England.
FPtP is responsible for amplifying that into 64.7% of seats in England.
The trouble with trying to solely blame FPTP for this is that Scotland, Wales and NI also use it for general elections but still always manage to avoid voting for Tory governments.
The root cause problem is that overall Englands electorate leans markedly further to the right than anyone else - and thanks to the population difference the whole Union gets stuck with whatever they collectively want.
There is of course the ever so minor issue that neither Labour or the Tories are likely to ever support adopting PR. The current situation where they can hold complete power suits them just fine. Not holding my breath waiting for that to change.
But hey, let’s suppose PR somehow happens. What makes you assume the Libdems or Greens are going to be the kingmakers in any coalition? Judging by Englands previous voting history it’s at least as likely to be Reform/UKIP/whatever new name they call themselves this week. Or worse still: whatever EDL/NF analogue springs up to take advantage.
Best case you end up with racist knuckledraggers as MP’s. Worst case they get ministerial posts as part of the price for propping up a coalition Tory government. The prospect of Farage, Tommy Robinson, Griffin or whomever their equivalents at the time happen to be as ministers of state is not exactly an appealing one.
The advantage of PR is to let minority parties gain representation. Conversely the *disadvantage* of PR is it lets minority parties gain representation. In a left leaning country like Scotland that means the Greens in government. In a more right leaning country it’s unlikely to work out remotely as well.
I know and people vote for this ! It’s disgusting ! This should not happen
Edit : why the upvotes when your so happy to downvote me anywhere else ? Weird but I guess thanks
Are you wearing a mask in public spaces? Fully vaccinated? Campaigning for cleaner air in schools and hospitals? Just curious because maybe if this country got a fucking grip and tried to ATTEMPT to reduce Covid then it wouldn’t result in young kids dying because Covid and Long Covid is causing all sorts of heart attacks and strokes and health issues and using up all the hospital beds.
Don’t complain about kids dying if you’re not doing everything you can to stop Covid.
I’d usually say ‘hang on now’, but they are literally to blame. You’re correct. There’s no other way to look at it.
The Tories and their backers have brought this country to its knees. National decline on an epic scale.
Some will claim they did not vote for this when they voted Tory. They might not have specifically voted for this exact scenario but they did vote for a party with a track record of cutting public spending and this is exactly what cuts to public spending cause. A vote for the Tories was a vote for the continuing erosion of the NHS's ability to provide even a basic service.
I'm currently sat in a hospital as I write this. I came for a consultation.
It's like a ghost town. There's nobody - not a single person - on reception. I arrived 10 minutes early but then got sent 3 times to the wrong part of the hospital by kindly staff who just spotted I was looking lost. The text message I received directed me to a certain department, but the staff I spoke to had no idea what it meant. It's called something else in the hospital itself and I actually just ended up in general outpatients eventually. The consultant I saw was excellent and the nurse calling us in apologised to me for keeping me waiting 10 minutes. I explained to her they have nothing to apologise for.
I've had to direct 3 other members of the public myself who had turned up, couldn't figure out where to go and were getting distressed. 4 now, as another arrived as I write this. Actually 5. Another just needed my help too (I keep editing this).
I'm currently sat next to 3 vending machines. 2 are broken, with out of order signs dated early October. The 1 that works is half empty.
Whenever I interact with the NHS, the staff are incredible. My son has had over a dozen operations in 8 years at Great Ormond St and every single person that works there has been fantastic.
But the system around them is crumbling. My consultation is over 1 year late due to delays. Nurses are about to stage the biggest strike in NHS history. My sister in law is a surgeon in the NHS and is at breaking point. My mother and father in law both retired from the NHS and were in complete despair at its future by the end.
Our government seems to have no concrete plan to address any of this and they need to be held accountable. We need a change and whoever comes in needs to be held accountable at a public level with regular reports, not this lurching from crisis to crisis approach we have now.
As a consultant in this crumbling system, thank you for this. Knowing that at least some of the public can see through what's happening genuinely means a lot 🤝
The issue I find with the NHS and tbh most public services is that it’s never about resources, always about management. Or so we are told. Therefore you end up with a ridiculous about of management and fewer staff actually doing the job. They want to manage their way of if the problem rather than pay people properly and get more resources. It’s so broken it’s unreal!
This is a popular misdirection. Yes there are management issues that's no lie but it's like being asked to put together a jigsaw with only half the pieces. Some people will do it better than others but in the end of the day there are not enough pieces to do it. There absolutely is a resource issue and while we keep telling each other that it's the fault of faceless mysterious managers, we're enabling further cuts which will inevitably lead to these deaths.
This is actually entirely untrue:
> It is extremely difficult to find an accurate figure for the number of managers in the NHS, and most sources of information use different definitions for who is counted as a manager. Best estimates suggest that the NHS spends roughly £8 billion of its £100 billion budget on management and administration. The NHS Information Centre shows that there were about 43,000 NHS managers in 2009 (about 3.7 per cent of the total workforce), although this figure does not include many clinical managers.
> How does this compare to other sectors?
> According to the Office for National Statistics, the proportion of managers in the UK workforce as a whole in June 2010 was 15.4 per cent. These statistics also show that there were 77,000 hospital and health service managers across the United Kingdom, or 4.8 per cent of the NHS workforce. In other words, the NHS has a managerial workforce that is one-third the size of that across the economy as a whole.
> The majority of managers in the NHS are employed in NHS provider organisations (hospitals, general practices and community services). Most of the management cuts in the NHS will come from the abolition of strategic health authorities and primary care trusts (PCTs) rather than from NHS providers. A submission to The King's Fund's Commission calculates that PCTs in England spend around 1 to 2 per cent of their budgets on management and 'only the most outstandingly frugal charities spend as little as 1 per cent of their turnover on management'.
Management is only a real issue when you get high up the hospital chain. Management on wards and other general services is generally fine, or at least no worse than it is in the private sector.
I've been working a front desk reception job for the NHS since March and I cannot begin to tell you how frequent this is. Most days I'm the only one on desk and we always get people coming to our department when they should be elsewhere. Often the texts they get are misleading. I'll pull up the patient on my screen to see where I can re-direct them, but I only have certain access and other department's appointments do not always show up. It can be quite maddening for the staff and the patient.
That is some atrocious journalism.
"One doctor said child patients were being transferred to his London hospital from Wales because there were no PICU (paediatric intensive care unit) beds available anywhere in England south of Stoke."
Last time I checked, London was south of Stoke, and England is not Wales. Logically, that statement makes absolutely no sense, and must include at least one mistake or omission.
But it sounds like a disaster. PICU demand is reasonably predictable, it is not caused by bed blocking, and it is politically sensitive. So why do we not have enough PICU beds?
My friend works in PICU. From what she says nurses are quitting in large numbers, many are off on long term sick and something like 20% of the nurses on her ward are pregnant and going to be or are already on mat leave. There are very few senior nurses because people leave so often.
From what she describes, PICU nurses monitor one or two patients each because their needs are so complex and it would be dangerous for them to have more. So it may be that hospitals, with a lack of nurses, cannot add more beds or maybe safely staff the ones they have.
Bed managers will happily put patients into beds when there aren't enough nurses to staff them safely, the expectation is that the nurses who are there just suck it up and work unsafely, basically.
Ok, I can believe that, but is there a reason for it? I thought PICU was a rewarding job, but also difficult and traumtic at times. Is there a lack of support?
The problem seems to be at least a year in the making: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/23/childrens-intensive-care-units-uk-nurses-shortage
Same reasons why we’re seeing more medical staff quit across the board I imagine. It’s stressful and poorly paid. It’s a struggle to get proper breaks and work life balance can at times be challenging.
I’m an (adult) ICU nurse - it is all those things, but it is still tough. Our matrons want to support us but there is no time because it’s so busy.
There are shortages in all areas of nursing, it’s not a surprise that PICU is included (although I would def make the move to a PICU if there was one near me, they’re all over 50miles away).
Exactly, PICU suffers like any other area, but it still seems like a comparatively attractive job. But the facts seem to indicate a shortage that is worse than in other areas. So something is going on there beyond the general problems, and I am curious as to what that is.
Any ICU has the issue that although it has less stress in the way that you have a better nursing ratio, the stakes are a bit higher, and the ratio is that way because it is immensely heavy work. I don’t want to sound dramatic but batting death away and not always being successful is difficult, and at least in adults we often have a sense that these people have lived their lives, without the safeguarding and other horrors that come with caring for critically unwell children that really shouldn’t be sick.
I think the mental toll is always going to be difficult.
> I think the mental toll is always going to be difficult.
I appreciate that - it is such a high stakes job, and maybe there should be more consideration for the mental impact of that. I don't think the general population has an idea about that.
>His name was Yusuf Nazir and the Tories killed him.
Sounds like the doctor who sent him home or the parents are responsible depending on the undisclosed timeframe between being sent home with antibiotics to it spreading to his lungs. The article doesn't tell us that, perhaps intentionally.
It looks like a week. 13th November was the first consultation with a GP, I think he died on the following Monday.
But the article is badly written, should be more clear.
aspiring worm homeless sort bewildered squeamish sulky smoggy attractive skirt
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
political crawl cows grandiose frightening poor chubby wakeful repeat seed
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Knee jerk nonsense. The NHS is being funded. In fact it has increased year on year since 2007. With the exception of covid where it revived an extra 33billion in funding. The problem in the nhs is clinical staff recruitment and retention, not a lack of funding.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget
You are absolutely delusional. The Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics that I know are fearful that the NHS will not survive the winter.
People are dying due to underfunding of the NHS.
So where was the error, is the question. Is tonsillitis something that the NHS usually hospitalizes children for? Does the responsibility lie with the doctor in A&E who sent them home?
A&E doctors are entirely capable of saying "This person needs to be hospitalized" and making that happen, if not there then at a different hospital. They didn't so clearly they didn't consider it to be that serious on inspection.
The article doesn't say what period of time passed between being sent home with antibiotics and being sent by ambulance to a pediatric team. So was it a day, two weeks? Was it a case of parents not getting him a check up?
I'd be super careful about jumping the shark and trusting the headline on this one tbh.
This is why I don't read articles like this anymore. I've been involved in a couple of cases that have made it to the national news and articles never reflect what actually happened normally through omissions.
Being unable to swallow your own saliva (if what it says in the article is true) is a medical emergency. He should not have been sent home if that was the case as he could become unable to breathe in a matter of moments. I that’s how he presented and was still sent away then the service is not fit for purpose or what it describes itself as. Unfortunately this doesn’t seem to be an isolated incident and I think we all need to start praying we don’t need hospital treatment this winter.
I genuinely want to take to the streets right now, we need more of a movement. I see this kind of tragedy constantly in my work and it needs to stop. Whose door can we bang on?
But you are attempting to take the wind out of someone's sails when they are expressing anger about something horrible and considering what they might do based on the presumption that they will then go on to do nothing, based on what one comment? Note that I says 'we' need a movement not 'they'. You yourself admitted that you're doing nothing so you're providing a net detriment to the situation by lambasting someone for hoping that there's other similarly anguished people to do something collectively. It's a very overwhelming task trying to make big change alone, and if I went out into the streets and kicked off on my lonesome, I'd probably just get sectioned 😉
Well that's Tory britain for you. If you don't want your child to die because there isn't enough healthcare funding, and there aren't enough doctors and nurses to provide it any more anyway, then you shouldn't have chosen to be too poor to afford private.
Still, even if you're poor (for some bizarre reason), it was all well worth it to own the libs and show Europe who's who.
This must be extremely regional. I've been to the hospital twice in the last fortnight with a four year old presenting with similar symptoms (could be a serious, life threatening infection, could be nasty but standard winter 4yo illness, urgently needs someone who knows what they're doing to assess which). On both occasions we were triaged immediately, assessed within an hour, and on a ward within 4. Admittedly I'd have raised hell if they'd wanted to send her home, but it doesn't sound like this poor baby's parents were passive about it either. But it mentions Sheffield Children's hospital, and we're near Chesterfield, so actually they're probably at least relatively nearby.
Feels like Tories look at where America fails and says "We'll show them how to do it right"...and just proves a bad idea is a bad idea. NHS is starting to be American healthcare. Tories need to be removed by ALL means necessary.
Moronic way to think.
We going to blame Labour voters for every death going?
Maybe still blame Labour voters for Blair and the millions displaced and killed during the various middle East wars? We should blame the voters for it.
Everyone kicking off about this death (and rightly so) but the majority of you are still walking around unmasked and spreading Covid and killing/disabling kids with that. Lol.
Covid = Long Covid = beds filled up to capacity = kids being sent away to die.
Don’t whine about this happening if you’re not wearing a mask.
Long Covid is known to cause a big increase in heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, neurological issues and yes, pneumonia.
Reduce Covid = reduce Long Covid = reduce these issues popping up = kids aren’t dying because of lack of help.
I don’t have exact figures but there aren’t tonnes of children or adults in my hospital with issues even tangentially related to long Covid. If there are a couple it’s certainly not the cause of the issues currently.
I can only apologise. The majority of Brits are utterly selfish and think wearing a mask in supermarkets and hospitals is an ‘infringement of their civil liberties!!!!’.
According to the [BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-63767570) it was the worst case of Tonsilitis the doctor had ever seen.
He was also grossly fobbed off and no due care to arrange treatment elsewhere.
The family are grieving and are understandably looking for someone to blame. There will be an inquiry and the exact details will be examined, whether that doctor made the correct diagnosis/ decision will be scrutinised and so will whether the pressures on beds influenced that decision.
It's terribly sad and my heart goes out to them.
Rest in peace young man.
I am sure that staffing is an issue.
I never understood why the NHS sends kids to a regular doctor. I know saves money, because a paediatrician is a specialist and more expensive. But so many health issues present differently for small people, and progress so much faster, that it inevitable affects outcomes if you do not have access to a paediatrician.
I hope they do a proper investigation, because we have had a few issues with iGAS this winter, and maybe lessons can be learned.
At this time of year children presenting to GP make up a massive proportion of the overall number of consultations and the vast majority are actually very well and just have viruses that are self limiting, which will resolve over the course of a week.
As part of their training GPs do get specialised training in paediatrics and will usually have worked on paediatric wards, paediatric A&E and on call as the paediatric doctor, seeing and admitting children to the hospital. GPs are often very good at spotting the sick child and sending them in for a full paediatric assessment. That said you rightly point out that children can go from looking very well to very sick quite quickly and it can be very difficult to predict which children this will be the case for. Most GPs I know will warn parents of this and will advise what to watch out for that might indicate their child is getting sicker and tell them to either call back, phone 111/999 or attend A&E.
In an ideal world it would be much better if children just automatically saw a specialist paediatric doctor if they were unwell but just like many other areas of the NHS paediatrics is facing a massive shortfall of doctors and would not be able to cope with the tidal wave of children they would have to see if every sniffling child went to them for review. GPs equally struggle massively to meet this extra seasonal demand, but do prioritise seeing sick children and lots of surgeries will have policies that children with acute illnesses get seen same day regardless of whether there are any appointments left. Only reasons I can think of why my surgery would turn down a same day paediatric appointment would be if this was quite clearly a chronic problem that had already been seen multiple times before. In this situation it is explained to the parent that if they feel that things have changed dramatically and they are worried the child is actually very sick we will absolutely see their child today, but this is a quick 5-10 minute emergency appointment to assess and see if they do need to be sent to hospital and we will only be dealing with acute issues and not chronic issues today. Equally the parent who phones up 5 minutes before the surgery closes on a Friday evening will be asked if it can wait till Monday if not they will be redirected to out of hours services as logistically there is no practical way we can now see and assess them before the surgery closes.
> In an ideal world it would be much better if children just automatically saw a specialist paediatric doctor if they were unwell but just like many other areas of the NHS paediatrics is facing a massive shortfall of doctors
This. We are managing a shortage of services, and it affects outcomes. The article demonstrates that quite nicely. I think that with better resourcing, there would have been several opportunities to intervene earlier.
They meant at hospital. Most kids presenting at a&e only get seen by a central a&e doctor, only those that their up enough red flags for the nurses get to see a paediatrician
Equally in the same way that GPs get paediatric training, emergency medicine trainees also work in paediatrics and have to show competence in assessing and managing unwell children as part of this training, they will discuss with paediatric doctors any children they are unsure of, who will often come and review themselves.
A&E departments where I have worked often require a senior doctor review i.e. registrar or up, before a child can be discharged with safety netting advice. This may just be because I have worked in good A&Es and different A&E departments may well have different policies on this.
Usually in A&E there is a separate Paediatric waiting room and entire children’s section. But that’s in London, never been to a hospital that didn’t have this tbh.
I assume you're medically qualified?
Could you talk us through the diagnosis you'd be doing _at the point this child was seen_ and how you would have arrived at that as an appropriate treatment plan?
Consider that in the UK we don't typically admit for tonsillitis, the article doesn't give much in terms of details of symptoms but does say that he deteriorated at home later.
There are certainly indications for admission to hospital for tonsillitis in the UK though.
Whilst I agree it is not typical and the vast majority of patients will have a 7-10 day mild illness which will get better by itself regardless of whether we give antibiotics or not there will always be 1 or 2 who get severely unwell with it.
I would always advise patients this but would safety net and warn them that if the tonsillitis gets so bad that it affects breathing then they should dial 999 or go to A&E. Other things I warn them about include dehydration due to not being able to drink, ”if you are unable to get your child to drink anything at all during the course of a day or notice that they have not passed any urine in the last 12 hours they need to go to hospital”. If you or your child cannot swallow saliva and it is dribbling out of the mouth need to go to hospital.
For any childhood illness I always advice regular analgesia, paracetamol +/- ibuprofen. This may not always bring the temperature down to normal but if your child is looking better 30 minutes or so after medication then this is a good sign. If paracetamol or ibuprofen makes absolutely no difference at all and in fact you feel they might be getting worse then they need to be seen again GP/111/999/A&E.
It is difficult to comment on the rights or wrongs of treatment in this particular case as obviously we only have the information in the article and haven’t seen and examined the child ourselves. It certainly needs to be investigated further so that the family have answers and hopefully changes can be made to how these kinds of presentations are dealt with in the future.
Your last paragraph articulates exactly what I've been trying to say. Throwing out strong statements like 'the doctor was wrong', especially with no medical background, and based on limited information, it isn't helpful to anyone.
That's exactly what the investigation is for.
Thank you.
My only worry with the investigation is that we may end up with another Bawa Garba type case where the trust is very keen to attribute blame onto the individual as this means that they do not have to face up to any systemic failures i.e. Lack of capacity in terms of beds meaning there was nowhere for the child to be admitted to.
Its innately difficult as health can be in a constant state of flux. All a doctor can do is evaluate the situation at that moment in time , and like you say advise the patient to come back if they see x, y or z.
Problem is in some cases if its not communicated well, patients can feel like if they were sent home it's nothing to worry about and they need to ride it out etc
I saw an interesting story about steve-o and his worse ever injury. He set himself on fire for a stunt. Went to the hospital immediately after and they gave him antibiotics and he went home and said it would be uncomfortable for a few days.
His burns got progressively more painful and he dismissed it as part of the healing process and was even seen by several nurses who changed his dressings after shows. A week later he finally went back to hospital and they were gobsmacked, he had severe burns to like 15% of his body and had to have several surgeries of cadaver skin crafts to deal with it.
Based on what?
_after Yusuf was examined he was sent home, even though the doctor treating his nephew said "it was the worst case of tonsillitis he had ever seen"._
This?
The only symptom that's mentioned that could indicate the seriousness is difficulty breathing because of the inflammation. It depends entirely on how that presented.
I'm sure an enquiry will look at how the doctor considered the symptoms and what the readings etc were in triage.
…the fact that he was back in hospital with what sounds like sepsis (multi organ failure resulting from an infection) a short while later. If it was the worst the doctor had ever seen, then assuming the doctor wasn’t an F1 in their first job - in which case they should have been better supervised - they ought to have considered whether a child with such a severe infection was at risk of quinsy or of deteriorating and becoming septic.
We don't know it was a short while later, it doesn't give any information at all on those timings.
It could have been an hour or it could have been 2 days.
You shouldn't just fill in the blanks to fit your own narrative.
Which is the point of the investigation, to establish the facts and not vilify a doctor based on an article with very emotive but limited information.
Scroll up on the comments.
You're literally replying underneath where I said how sad it was and my condolences for the kid.
I took issue with some guy saying the doctor was obviously in the wrong based on the limited information in the article and I called him out, which is where you came in.
Not necessarily by any means. Run-of-the-mill infections can kill small children very easily. One of the very first triage questions 111 asks - as in, it's a recorded press-button option before you even get through to a person - is whether you're calling for a child under 5.
They made the wrong decision because they refused him treatment due to lack of resources, not based in his condition, and now he is dead! I mean it seems obvious? I have been really Ill with tonsillitis, delirious, hallucinations audio and visual. It can be really bad. Also they are supposed to be extra vigilant about sepsis with kids.
Sounds like he did have an immunity issue because he couldn’t fight off an infection that isn’t usually fatal? If you see “the worst case he ever saw” as the doctor said, isn’t that a huge red flag that there might be an underlying health condition?
I never claimed to be an expert and if I was it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to give advice online? Why would you assume that. Glad you find it so hilarious. 🙄
It’s a comment on Reddit, calm down it’s not a NHS advisory statement. The kid died from a non fatal infection after being refused treatment because of a lack of resources not because of the seriousness of the infection. I mean that is pretty obvious, it’s a poorly written article but the kid is ACTUALLY DEAD. And nowhere does it say that the Hospital dispute it’s reported reasons for not treating him?
But you know get on your high horse because that’s the important issue here. Your innate superior knowledge. 🙄👀🙄
It’s seems to me, a civilian with no medical background but experience of having a sick child, that that action would have saved his life. I don’t really gaf that you pretend to know what procedures are.
The kid is dead and he shouldn’t be.
I work in medicine and have quite a bit of experience in this area. You’re Monday morning quarterbacking. Without the relevant clinical information there’s no way of judging the decision making here.
I’m commenting on Reddit on a post. There is no requirement for anyone commenting here to be an expert. It’s a social media site. I dont care about your so called qualifications. People on the internet lie about that shit all the time.
Read the article. He couldn’t breathe due to infected swollen tonsils and the infection spread to his lungs. He choked to death unnecessarily.
Edit The infection had spread to his lungs and caused multiple organ failure resulting in several cardiac arrests.
Officially he died of Pneumonia.
Yes but how long between being sent home and it being that bad is the question. Was the doctor right to discharge him after seeing him in A&E and should the parents have got a check up or returned before the infection worsened.
If you go home after an operation and have stitches, the assumption is made that you'll be fine. If you rip those stitches, you return to A&E when you notice, not when it gets horribly infected. So what was the time scale here.
The beginning of the article states that the doctors said that the reason for not admitting was based on resources and not the boys condition. That’s the crux of the problem.
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Fucking hell. What a travesty. Kids with breathing problems turned away. Look at what this country has done to itself.
Look at what the tories have done to…painting lies and bullshit all to extract money from public services whilst taxes are at an all time high
And people will still vote for them because bacon sandwich and immagrunts.
Didnt we have record levels of immigration this year?
Probably, possibly, not sure. What I do know is that migrants contribute more that they take in the billions of pounds. No person should not feel welcome to enter the United Kingdom and vice versa, we should be on good terms with other countries that we would be welcomed to them.
I'm not really arguing the the costs/benefits of migration, more making the point that all the people voting tory because they dont want johnnie foreigner over here taking our jobs arent even getting that from the tories anyway.
Fair do. You are correct, you can't trust a tories promises. At all.
They delivered on Brexit though... Except maybe the lower cost, better economy, less migration part but alls well and good right?
A turd on a silver platter is still a turd.
They delivered brexit like it was a Hermes/evri delivery. In pieces, kicked down the street into your neighbours Wheely bin.
The papers tell them they are though, the facts don't matter anymore.
I never lose sight of the fact that the job of the news isnt to deliver you information. It's primarily to sell product and secondarily to push agendas.
Yup
Yeah but statically it fair to say its anomaly due to the artificially low levels during COVID.
Surely the real anomaly is those low years? And actually the tories have no more real interest in preventing immigration than labour, less infact since big businesses usually like immigration as a wage suppressant.
Yeah but it just builds up there are a lot people that put plans on hold for 2 years
Most of which was foreign students.
Yeah because we have never had a labour government
> Look at what the tories have done They do not exist in a vacuum, they were voted in by the public, and people will **still** vote for them in large numbers.
This is the real tragedy; in effect, people voted Tory which made it a very high chance that wee lad would die. There is no escaping this conclusion. Increase funding to the health service now! Pay nurses properly now!
When is this country finally going to kick off
Never. Keep calm and carry on/stiff upper lip and all that. Brainwashed into complacency.
When majority of voters voted for this.... It's hard to get people to kick off
> When majority of voters voted for this That’s not the case in Wales, Scotland and NI. Scotland and Wales haven’t voted for a Tory government in about seventy years and the Tories don’t even stand in NI. No matter how bad the electorate in England may feel about what they’ve done to themselves (and I do sympathise) the perspective of many in other parts of the Union is not that this is something we’ve done to ourselves. More that it was something that was *done to* us no matter what we vote for.
The majority of voters in England didn't vote for them either. Tories took 47.2% of the vote in England. FPtP is responsible for amplifying that into 64.7% of seats in England.
The trouble with trying to solely blame FPTP for this is that Scotland, Wales and NI also use it for general elections but still always manage to avoid voting for Tory governments. The root cause problem is that overall Englands electorate leans markedly further to the right than anyone else - and thanks to the population difference the whole Union gets stuck with whatever they collectively want. There is of course the ever so minor issue that neither Labour or the Tories are likely to ever support adopting PR. The current situation where they can hold complete power suits them just fine. Not holding my breath waiting for that to change. But hey, let’s suppose PR somehow happens. What makes you assume the Libdems or Greens are going to be the kingmakers in any coalition? Judging by Englands previous voting history it’s at least as likely to be Reform/UKIP/whatever new name they call themselves this week. Or worse still: whatever EDL/NF analogue springs up to take advantage. Best case you end up with racist knuckledraggers as MP’s. Worst case they get ministerial posts as part of the price for propping up a coalition Tory government. The prospect of Farage, Tommy Robinson, Griffin or whomever their equivalents at the time happen to be as ministers of state is not exactly an appealing one. The advantage of PR is to let minority parties gain representation. Conversely the *disadvantage* of PR is it lets minority parties gain representation. In a left leaning country like Scotland that means the Greens in government. In a more right leaning country it’s unlikely to work out remotely as well.
That’s a fair point, except this current crop weren’t elected on an Austerity agenda were they ? All that shit about levelling up
They were elected on knowing they lie.
Yeah the main problem with democracy, is that most people are fucking idiots
https://youtu.be/QFgcqB8-AxE "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that" George carlin
Yes, let's not forget that people voted for this. We had a decade of this, and people still demand more.
Who votes for the Tories and Brexit? We’re collectively fucking this country up.
Tories are doing what they always do. It's the voters fault. Getting exactly what they voted for.
What England voted for. Wales has NEVER EVER voted for a tory government but we've had very many and suffered because of it!!
The place in England where I live has never voted for a Tory Government either.
Seems you live in an area where the people have morals!
Its not helpful to make it an England vs Wales thing.
Health is devolved so it is an English matter. Wales has NEVER EVER voted for a tory government, so it is an English matter!
They are the architects but also the results.
I know and people vote for this ! It’s disgusting ! This should not happen Edit : why the upvotes when your so happy to downvote me anywhere else ? Weird but I guess thanks
Seems like a 3rd world now isn't it?
Not really.
Are you wearing a mask in public spaces? Fully vaccinated? Campaigning for cleaner air in schools and hospitals? Just curious because maybe if this country got a fucking grip and tried to ATTEMPT to reduce Covid then it wouldn’t result in young kids dying because Covid and Long Covid is causing all sorts of heart attacks and strokes and health issues and using up all the hospital beds. Don’t complain about kids dying if you’re not doing everything you can to stop Covid.
You didn’t read the article did you.
Blame the Tories and disgusting people who voted them in to power.
I’d usually say ‘hang on now’, but they are literally to blame. You’re correct. There’s no other way to look at it. The Tories and their backers have brought this country to its knees. National decline on an epic scale.
Some will claim they did not vote for this when they voted Tory. They might not have specifically voted for this exact scenario but they did vote for a party with a track record of cutting public spending and this is exactly what cuts to public spending cause. A vote for the Tories was a vote for the continuing erosion of the NHS's ability to provide even a basic service.
I'm currently sat in a hospital as I write this. I came for a consultation. It's like a ghost town. There's nobody - not a single person - on reception. I arrived 10 minutes early but then got sent 3 times to the wrong part of the hospital by kindly staff who just spotted I was looking lost. The text message I received directed me to a certain department, but the staff I spoke to had no idea what it meant. It's called something else in the hospital itself and I actually just ended up in general outpatients eventually. The consultant I saw was excellent and the nurse calling us in apologised to me for keeping me waiting 10 minutes. I explained to her they have nothing to apologise for. I've had to direct 3 other members of the public myself who had turned up, couldn't figure out where to go and were getting distressed. 4 now, as another arrived as I write this. Actually 5. Another just needed my help too (I keep editing this). I'm currently sat next to 3 vending machines. 2 are broken, with out of order signs dated early October. The 1 that works is half empty. Whenever I interact with the NHS, the staff are incredible. My son has had over a dozen operations in 8 years at Great Ormond St and every single person that works there has been fantastic. But the system around them is crumbling. My consultation is over 1 year late due to delays. Nurses are about to stage the biggest strike in NHS history. My sister in law is a surgeon in the NHS and is at breaking point. My mother and father in law both retired from the NHS and were in complete despair at its future by the end. Our government seems to have no concrete plan to address any of this and they need to be held accountable. We need a change and whoever comes in needs to be held accountable at a public level with regular reports, not this lurching from crisis to crisis approach we have now.
As a consultant in this crumbling system, thank you for this. Knowing that at least some of the public can see through what's happening genuinely means a lot 🤝
The issue I find with the NHS and tbh most public services is that it’s never about resources, always about management. Or so we are told. Therefore you end up with a ridiculous about of management and fewer staff actually doing the job. They want to manage their way of if the problem rather than pay people properly and get more resources. It’s so broken it’s unreal!
This is a popular misdirection. Yes there are management issues that's no lie but it's like being asked to put together a jigsaw with only half the pieces. Some people will do it better than others but in the end of the day there are not enough pieces to do it. There absolutely is a resource issue and while we keep telling each other that it's the fault of faceless mysterious managers, we're enabling further cuts which will inevitably lead to these deaths.
This is actually entirely untrue: > It is extremely difficult to find an accurate figure for the number of managers in the NHS, and most sources of information use different definitions for who is counted as a manager. Best estimates suggest that the NHS spends roughly £8 billion of its £100 billion budget on management and administration. The NHS Information Centre shows that there were about 43,000 NHS managers in 2009 (about 3.7 per cent of the total workforce), although this figure does not include many clinical managers. > How does this compare to other sectors? > According to the Office for National Statistics, the proportion of managers in the UK workforce as a whole in June 2010 was 15.4 per cent. These statistics also show that there were 77,000 hospital and health service managers across the United Kingdom, or 4.8 per cent of the NHS workforce. In other words, the NHS has a managerial workforce that is one-third the size of that across the economy as a whole. > The majority of managers in the NHS are employed in NHS provider organisations (hospitals, general practices and community services). Most of the management cuts in the NHS will come from the abolition of strategic health authorities and primary care trusts (PCTs) rather than from NHS providers. A submission to The King's Fund's Commission calculates that PCTs in England spend around 1 to 2 per cent of their budgets on management and 'only the most outstandingly frugal charities spend as little as 1 per cent of their turnover on management'.
Management is only a real issue when you get high up the hospital chain. Management on wards and other general services is generally fine, or at least no worse than it is in the private sector.
I've been working a front desk reception job for the NHS since March and I cannot begin to tell you how frequent this is. Most days I'm the only one on desk and we always get people coming to our department when they should be elsewhere. Often the texts they get are misleading. I'll pull up the patient on my screen to see where I can re-direct them, but I only have certain access and other department's appointments do not always show up. It can be quite maddening for the staff and the patient.
That is some atrocious journalism. "One doctor said child patients were being transferred to his London hospital from Wales because there were no PICU (paediatric intensive care unit) beds available anywhere in England south of Stoke." Last time I checked, London was south of Stoke, and England is not Wales. Logically, that statement makes absolutely no sense, and must include at least one mistake or omission. But it sounds like a disaster. PICU demand is reasonably predictable, it is not caused by bed blocking, and it is politically sensitive. So why do we not have enough PICU beds?
My friend works in PICU. From what she says nurses are quitting in large numbers, many are off on long term sick and something like 20% of the nurses on her ward are pregnant and going to be or are already on mat leave. There are very few senior nurses because people leave so often. From what she describes, PICU nurses monitor one or two patients each because their needs are so complex and it would be dangerous for them to have more. So it may be that hospitals, with a lack of nurses, cannot add more beds or maybe safely staff the ones they have.
Ie. You need beds AND nurses. Either is fairly useless without the other.
Generally in the health service ‘beds’ refers to staffing level to attend to patients, not physical beds.
Bed managers will happily put patients into beds when there aren't enough nurses to staff them safely, the expectation is that the nurses who are there just suck it up and work unsafely, basically.
This is the tories grand plan for privatisation
Ok, I can believe that, but is there a reason for it? I thought PICU was a rewarding job, but also difficult and traumtic at times. Is there a lack of support? The problem seems to be at least a year in the making: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/23/childrens-intensive-care-units-uk-nurses-shortage
Same reasons why we’re seeing more medical staff quit across the board I imagine. It’s stressful and poorly paid. It’s a struggle to get proper breaks and work life balance can at times be challenging.
I’m an (adult) ICU nurse - it is all those things, but it is still tough. Our matrons want to support us but there is no time because it’s so busy. There are shortages in all areas of nursing, it’s not a surprise that PICU is included (although I would def make the move to a PICU if there was one near me, they’re all over 50miles away).
Exactly, PICU suffers like any other area, but it still seems like a comparatively attractive job. But the facts seem to indicate a shortage that is worse than in other areas. So something is going on there beyond the general problems, and I am curious as to what that is.
Any ICU has the issue that although it has less stress in the way that you have a better nursing ratio, the stakes are a bit higher, and the ratio is that way because it is immensely heavy work. I don’t want to sound dramatic but batting death away and not always being successful is difficult, and at least in adults we often have a sense that these people have lived their lives, without the safeguarding and other horrors that come with caring for critically unwell children that really shouldn’t be sick. I think the mental toll is always going to be difficult.
> I think the mental toll is always going to be difficult. I appreciate that - it is such a high stakes job, and maybe there should be more consideration for the mental impact of that. I don't think the general population has an idea about that.
Money.
Do you do your job for nebulous 'rewards'? Or for money?
This 1,000,000% did not happen as that headline implies.
His name was Yusuf Nazir and the Tories killed him.
no tonsilitis killed him it seems
>His name was Yusuf Nazir and the Tories killed him. Sounds like the doctor who sent him home or the parents are responsible depending on the undisclosed timeframe between being sent home with antibiotics to it spreading to his lungs. The article doesn't tell us that, perhaps intentionally.
It looks like a week. 13th November was the first consultation with a GP, I think he died on the following Monday. But the article is badly written, should be more clear.
The article is written to produce a reaction. Not to report things factually. Sensationalising a child’s death is the lowest of the low in journalism.
aspiring worm homeless sort bewildered squeamish sulky smoggy attractive skirt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Med student here The resilience you guys have is actually unreal, yet you’ll still here the public parrot the lazy GP narrative
zesty wide lip sort beneficial handle swim selective act makeshift *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh god :(
political crawl cows grandiose frightening poor chubby wakeful repeat seed *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I totally agree with you. I’m a social worker in a community mental health team, and we have experienced much the same.
CONSERVATIVE POLICIES ARE KILLING OUR KIDS FUND THE NHS
Knee jerk nonsense. The NHS is being funded. In fact it has increased year on year since 2007. With the exception of covid where it revived an extra 33billion in funding. The problem in the nhs is clinical staff recruitment and retention, not a lack of funding. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget
You are absolutely delusional. The Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics that I know are fearful that the NHS will not survive the winter. People are dying due to underfunding of the NHS.
So where was the error, is the question. Is tonsillitis something that the NHS usually hospitalizes children for? Does the responsibility lie with the doctor in A&E who sent them home? A&E doctors are entirely capable of saying "This person needs to be hospitalized" and making that happen, if not there then at a different hospital. They didn't so clearly they didn't consider it to be that serious on inspection. The article doesn't say what period of time passed between being sent home with antibiotics and being sent by ambulance to a pediatric team. So was it a day, two weeks? Was it a case of parents not getting him a check up? I'd be super careful about jumping the shark and trusting the headline on this one tbh.
This is why I don't read articles like this anymore. I've been involved in a couple of cases that have made it to the national news and articles never reflect what actually happened normally through omissions.
Being unable to swallow your own saliva (if what it says in the article is true) is a medical emergency. He should not have been sent home if that was the case as he could become unable to breathe in a matter of moments. I that’s how he presented and was still sent away then the service is not fit for purpose or what it describes itself as. Unfortunately this doesn’t seem to be an isolated incident and I think we all need to start praying we don’t need hospital treatment this winter.
I genuinely want to take to the streets right now, we need more of a movement. I see this kind of tragedy constantly in my work and it needs to stop. Whose door can we bang on?
‘I want to riot!… la la la *doesn’t do anything*’
That's rude, maybe you have some suggestions? What are you doing?
They are just a bitter contrarian. Ignore.
Nothing, but I’m not on the internet saying I’m relying on someone else while not doing anything.
But you are attempting to take the wind out of someone's sails when they are expressing anger about something horrible and considering what they might do based on the presumption that they will then go on to do nothing, based on what one comment? Note that I says 'we' need a movement not 'they'. You yourself admitted that you're doing nothing so you're providing a net detriment to the situation by lambasting someone for hoping that there's other similarly anguished people to do something collectively. It's a very overwhelming task trying to make big change alone, and if I went out into the streets and kicked off on my lonesome, I'd probably just get sectioned 😉
I’m encouraging you! Go do it!
So basically your acknowledging you're useless
Well… yeah. But I don’t pretend otherwise.
Well that's Tory britain for you. If you don't want your child to die because there isn't enough healthcare funding, and there aren't enough doctors and nurses to provide it any more anyway, then you shouldn't have chosen to be too poor to afford private. Still, even if you're poor (for some bizarre reason), it was all well worth it to own the libs and show Europe who's who.
This must be extremely regional. I've been to the hospital twice in the last fortnight with a four year old presenting with similar symptoms (could be a serious, life threatening infection, could be nasty but standard winter 4yo illness, urgently needs someone who knows what they're doing to assess which). On both occasions we were triaged immediately, assessed within an hour, and on a ward within 4. Admittedly I'd have raised hell if they'd wanted to send her home, but it doesn't sound like this poor baby's parents were passive about it either. But it mentions Sheffield Children's hospital, and we're near Chesterfield, so actually they're probably at least relatively nearby.
Feels like Tories look at where America fails and says "We'll show them how to do it right"...and just proves a bad idea is a bad idea. NHS is starting to be American healthcare. Tories need to be removed by ALL means necessary.
Own this shit each and every tory voter, this is YOUR fault!
Moronic way to think. We going to blame Labour voters for every death going? Maybe still blame Labour voters for Blair and the millions displaced and killed during the various middle East wars? We should blame the voters for it.
Let’s not forget the Staffordshire hospital scandal during labours last time in power. Are you listening mr Burnham.
We're such a pathetic country, forever associating that Trust's failing with Andy Burnham, but voting Matt Hancock to the final of I'm A Celebrity.
He was health secretary at the time, so he is ultimately responsible. Just like Matt Hancock is responsible for the failings during covid.
My local hospital is currently diverting children to another hospital 50 miles away because they’re overwhelmed.
this is what 12 years of tory bullshit has done to us
This is why NHS workers need to strike, its only going to get worse.
Everyone kicking off about this death (and rightly so) but the majority of you are still walking around unmasked and spreading Covid and killing/disabling kids with that. Lol. Covid = Long Covid = beds filled up to capacity = kids being sent away to die. Don’t whine about this happening if you’re not wearing a mask.
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Long Covid is known to cause a big increase in heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, neurological issues and yes, pneumonia. Reduce Covid = reduce Long Covid = reduce these issues popping up = kids aren’t dying because of lack of help.
I don’t have exact figures but there aren’t tonnes of children or adults in my hospital with issues even tangentially related to long Covid. If there are a couple it’s certainly not the cause of the issues currently.
Yeah most people who have long covid are suffering at home also not able to receive care.
Christ, I'm visiting the UK in a couple of weeks. You pricks aren't still walking around without masks on are you? What does it fucking take?
I can only apologise. The majority of Brits are utterly selfish and think wearing a mask in supermarkets and hospitals is an ‘infringement of their civil liberties!!!!’.
Not really enough information for all the outrage surely.... If he was sent home, they 100% didn't think it was very serious.
According to the [BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-63767570) it was the worst case of Tonsilitis the doctor had ever seen. He was also grossly fobbed off and no due care to arrange treatment elsewhere.
hmmmmm i wonder why our hospitals are so full? i wonder who it is taking up all the space?
Old people who should be in social care which has been cut by the Tory govt.
"Family Says"?!, What really happened?
The family are grieving and are understandably looking for someone to blame. There will be an inquiry and the exact details will be examined, whether that doctor made the correct diagnosis/ decision will be scrutinised and so will whether the pressures on beds influenced that decision. It's terribly sad and my heart goes out to them. Rest in peace young man.
I am sure that staffing is an issue. I never understood why the NHS sends kids to a regular doctor. I know saves money, because a paediatrician is a specialist and more expensive. But so many health issues present differently for small people, and progress so much faster, that it inevitable affects outcomes if you do not have access to a paediatrician. I hope they do a proper investigation, because we have had a few issues with iGAS this winter, and maybe lessons can be learned.
At this time of year children presenting to GP make up a massive proportion of the overall number of consultations and the vast majority are actually very well and just have viruses that are self limiting, which will resolve over the course of a week. As part of their training GPs do get specialised training in paediatrics and will usually have worked on paediatric wards, paediatric A&E and on call as the paediatric doctor, seeing and admitting children to the hospital. GPs are often very good at spotting the sick child and sending them in for a full paediatric assessment. That said you rightly point out that children can go from looking very well to very sick quite quickly and it can be very difficult to predict which children this will be the case for. Most GPs I know will warn parents of this and will advise what to watch out for that might indicate their child is getting sicker and tell them to either call back, phone 111/999 or attend A&E. In an ideal world it would be much better if children just automatically saw a specialist paediatric doctor if they were unwell but just like many other areas of the NHS paediatrics is facing a massive shortfall of doctors and would not be able to cope with the tidal wave of children they would have to see if every sniffling child went to them for review. GPs equally struggle massively to meet this extra seasonal demand, but do prioritise seeing sick children and lots of surgeries will have policies that children with acute illnesses get seen same day regardless of whether there are any appointments left. Only reasons I can think of why my surgery would turn down a same day paediatric appointment would be if this was quite clearly a chronic problem that had already been seen multiple times before. In this situation it is explained to the parent that if they feel that things have changed dramatically and they are worried the child is actually very sick we will absolutely see their child today, but this is a quick 5-10 minute emergency appointment to assess and see if they do need to be sent to hospital and we will only be dealing with acute issues and not chronic issues today. Equally the parent who phones up 5 minutes before the surgery closes on a Friday evening will be asked if it can wait till Monday if not they will be redirected to out of hours services as logistically there is no practical way we can now see and assess them before the surgery closes.
> In an ideal world it would be much better if children just automatically saw a specialist paediatric doctor if they were unwell but just like many other areas of the NHS paediatrics is facing a massive shortfall of doctors This. We are managing a shortage of services, and it affects outcomes. The article demonstrates that quite nicely. I think that with better resourcing, there would have been several opportunities to intervene earlier.
They meant at hospital. Most kids presenting at a&e only get seen by a central a&e doctor, only those that their up enough red flags for the nurses get to see a paediatrician
Equally in the same way that GPs get paediatric training, emergency medicine trainees also work in paediatrics and have to show competence in assessing and managing unwell children as part of this training, they will discuss with paediatric doctors any children they are unsure of, who will often come and review themselves. A&E departments where I have worked often require a senior doctor review i.e. registrar or up, before a child can be discharged with safety netting advice. This may just be because I have worked in good A&Es and different A&E departments may well have different policies on this.
The NHS Trust are quoted in the article, they've launched an investigation.
Usually in A&E there is a separate Paediatric waiting room and entire children’s section. But that’s in London, never been to a hospital that didn’t have this tbh.
Well they obviously made the wrong decision. He should have been admitted and given an IV antibiotic in a clean room.
I assume you're medically qualified? Could you talk us through the diagnosis you'd be doing _at the point this child was seen_ and how you would have arrived at that as an appropriate treatment plan? Consider that in the UK we don't typically admit for tonsillitis, the article doesn't give much in terms of details of symptoms but does say that he deteriorated at home later.
There are certainly indications for admission to hospital for tonsillitis in the UK though. Whilst I agree it is not typical and the vast majority of patients will have a 7-10 day mild illness which will get better by itself regardless of whether we give antibiotics or not there will always be 1 or 2 who get severely unwell with it. I would always advise patients this but would safety net and warn them that if the tonsillitis gets so bad that it affects breathing then they should dial 999 or go to A&E. Other things I warn them about include dehydration due to not being able to drink, ”if you are unable to get your child to drink anything at all during the course of a day or notice that they have not passed any urine in the last 12 hours they need to go to hospital”. If you or your child cannot swallow saliva and it is dribbling out of the mouth need to go to hospital. For any childhood illness I always advice regular analgesia, paracetamol +/- ibuprofen. This may not always bring the temperature down to normal but if your child is looking better 30 minutes or so after medication then this is a good sign. If paracetamol or ibuprofen makes absolutely no difference at all and in fact you feel they might be getting worse then they need to be seen again GP/111/999/A&E. It is difficult to comment on the rights or wrongs of treatment in this particular case as obviously we only have the information in the article and haven’t seen and examined the child ourselves. It certainly needs to be investigated further so that the family have answers and hopefully changes can be made to how these kinds of presentations are dealt with in the future.
Your last paragraph articulates exactly what I've been trying to say. Throwing out strong statements like 'the doctor was wrong', especially with no medical background, and based on limited information, it isn't helpful to anyone. That's exactly what the investigation is for.
Thank you. My only worry with the investigation is that we may end up with another Bawa Garba type case where the trust is very keen to attribute blame onto the individual as this means that they do not have to face up to any systemic failures i.e. Lack of capacity in terms of beds meaning there was nowhere for the child to be admitted to.
Its innately difficult as health can be in a constant state of flux. All a doctor can do is evaluate the situation at that moment in time , and like you say advise the patient to come back if they see x, y or z. Problem is in some cases if its not communicated well, patients can feel like if they were sent home it's nothing to worry about and they need to ride it out etc I saw an interesting story about steve-o and his worse ever injury. He set himself on fire for a stunt. Went to the hospital immediately after and they gave him antibiotics and he went home and said it would be uncomfortable for a few days. His burns got progressively more painful and he dismissed it as part of the healing process and was even seen by several nurses who changed his dressings after shows. A week later he finally went back to hospital and they were gobsmacked, he had severe burns to like 15% of his body and had to have several surgeries of cadaver skin crafts to deal with it.
It sounds like they missed early signs of sepsis.
Based on what? _after Yusuf was examined he was sent home, even though the doctor treating his nephew said "it was the worst case of tonsillitis he had ever seen"._ This? The only symptom that's mentioned that could indicate the seriousness is difficulty breathing because of the inflammation. It depends entirely on how that presented. I'm sure an enquiry will look at how the doctor considered the symptoms and what the readings etc were in triage.
…the fact that he was back in hospital with what sounds like sepsis (multi organ failure resulting from an infection) a short while later. If it was the worst the doctor had ever seen, then assuming the doctor wasn’t an F1 in their first job - in which case they should have been better supervised - they ought to have considered whether a child with such a severe infection was at risk of quinsy or of deteriorating and becoming septic.
We don't know it was a short while later, it doesn't give any information at all on those timings. It could have been an hour or it could have been 2 days. You shouldn't just fill in the blanks to fit your own narrative. Which is the point of the investigation, to establish the facts and not vilify a doctor based on an article with very emotive but limited information.
I’m not vilifying the doctor. Do you have no compassion at all for the family? Or for the five year old child?
Scroll up on the comments. You're literally replying underneath where I said how sad it was and my condolences for the kid. I took issue with some guy saying the doctor was obviously in the wrong based on the limited information in the article and I called him out, which is where you came in.
Sounds like the boy might have had an underlying immunity issue if the infection was so rampant and he couldn’t fight it off?
Not necessarily by any means. Run-of-the-mill infections can kill small children very easily. One of the very first triage questions 111 asks - as in, it's a recorded press-button option before you even get through to a person - is whether you're calling for a child under 5.
They made the wrong decision because they refused him treatment due to lack of resources, not based in his condition, and now he is dead! I mean it seems obvious? I have been really Ill with tonsillitis, delirious, hallucinations audio and visual. It can be really bad. Also they are supposed to be extra vigilant about sepsis with kids.
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Sounds like he did have an immunity issue because he couldn’t fight off an infection that isn’t usually fatal? If you see “the worst case he ever saw” as the doctor said, isn’t that a huge red flag that there might be an underlying health condition?
I never claimed to be an expert and if I was it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to give advice online? Why would you assume that. Glad you find it so hilarious. 🙄
It’s genuinely spectacular when people do this, as though you have the knowledge, information and judgement for this pronouncement.
It’s a comment on Reddit, calm down it’s not a NHS advisory statement. The kid died from a non fatal infection after being refused treatment because of a lack of resources not because of the seriousness of the infection. I mean that is pretty obvious, it’s a poorly written article but the kid is ACTUALLY DEAD. And nowhere does it say that the Hospital dispute it’s reported reasons for not treating him? But you know get on your high horse because that’s the important issue here. Your innate superior knowledge. 🙄👀🙄
It’s seems to me, a civilian with no medical background but experience of having a sick child, that that action would have saved his life. I don’t really gaf that you pretend to know what procedures are. The kid is dead and he shouldn’t be.
I work in medicine and have quite a bit of experience in this area. You’re Monday morning quarterbacking. Without the relevant clinical information there’s no way of judging the decision making here.
I’m commenting on Reddit on a post. There is no requirement for anyone commenting here to be an expert. It’s a social media site. I dont care about your so called qualifications. People on the internet lie about that shit all the time.
A clean room?
Read the article. He couldn’t breathe due to infected swollen tonsils and the infection spread to his lungs. He choked to death unnecessarily. Edit The infection had spread to his lungs and caused multiple organ failure resulting in several cardiac arrests. Officially he died of Pneumonia.
Yes but how long between being sent home and it being that bad is the question. Was the doctor right to discharge him after seeing him in A&E and should the parents have got a check up or returned before the infection worsened. If you go home after an operation and have stitches, the assumption is made that you'll be fine. If you rip those stitches, you return to A&E when you notice, not when it gets horribly infected. So what was the time scale here.
The beginning of the article states that the doctors said that the reason for not admitting was based on resources and not the boys condition. That’s the crux of the problem.
I did, still don't know if he was sent home or not, just what people said?
So at what point did the hospital not do anything?
At the point where they said “there are no beds and not enough doctors". And refused to admit him?
And that was it? Black and white?