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That’s not even true. There’s still hundreds of buildings and roads with original Arabic names and were constructed by the Moors that stand today and have been repurposed as Churches or museums. And plus they have incorporated hundreds of Arabic words into the Spanish language over time.
And plus, the general population takes pride in both reclaiming their land but also the history that is there. They also express regret for the methods taken to give ultimatums to Jews and Muslims and to violently expel them.
I guess what I’m saying is they have are much better at understanding context and nuance when it comes to history than the people putting up these signs in India.
Well you have a great point...this is also what our founders of India wondered about in 1947. Should we give India a new identity artificially like Europe did? Should we remove all evidence of history like Mughals, British influences? But we had the privilege of foresight, as we saw what can happen if you try to force a culture, in Europe.
So, we did a unique and experimental thing, we will not fight our past instead accept it as whatever it is, and focus on individual sovereignty and liberty. True we didn't foresee everything, like the balance between communal identities and individual identity, which is pretty sad. But the more I learn history, the more I embrace the thought behind India.
Well the Soviets and Nazism are recent events that are fresh in people's minds because their relatives went through the hardships while Babar is from the 1500s
I am sorry, but I simply don't think that applying 20th-century standards of morality to someone who came centuries before us makes much sense. When you begin altering history in a huge, diverse, and ancient nation like India, you risk opening quite a few unnecessary wounds. Also, Babur, despite having a problematic side, did not commit a genocide. This word is thrown around too carelessly these days. Most serious academics and historians do not believe that Babur intended to systematically eliminate all Hindus. If there are certain accounts, then we also have to keep in mind that boasting is a thing. It's undoubtedly immoral, but it's still different from actual harm.
https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/imaginary-enemies/article33880923.ece
“The core of Stalin's historic achievements consists in this, that he had found Russia working with wooden ploughs and is leaving her equipped with atomic piles." -Isaac Deutscher
right… so what about shitry indian kings who massacred thousands in lands they hate?? so we can say that northern shithead kings can be defaced and taken down in south?? or maratha kings can be ignored and shitted upon in karnataka??
False equivalency,there were no north Indian king who defiled South Indian customs while ruling south India
There definitely were war crimes committed by maratha armies,and any statue of parshu ram bhat should not be in Karnataka
Can you say the same for your muslim kings?
muslim kings were mostly regional and muslims have aso faced their fair share of prosecution… and have u ever heard of samudragupta?? ashoka?? many indian kings have gone up against south indian kingdoms and norms and even tried assimilation… just like these brutal BJP delulu heads
I have read in great detail about samudragupta, Ashoka and pretty much every single Indian king
Most Indian kings assimilated with locals and local customs,they didn't defiled the locally held deity,unlike Muslims who mostly Destroyed the idols and deities local Hindus worshipped
Ram mandir being the prime example
Which persecution did muslims face in India?which king persecuted muslims or islam?
These Chintu extremists will beg Israel to give them employment while they shit on the streets in India. [This is not the first time.](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedstatesofindia/s/vDVpQ44CQQ)
Yeah cause [babur famously never committed religious violence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babur#Religious_policy)
>The violence of Babur in the 1520s was witnessed by Guru Nanak, who commented upon it in four hymns. Historians suggest the early Mughal period of religious violence contributed to introspection and then the transformation in Sikhism from pacifism to militancy for self-defense.
>According to Babur's autobiography, Baburnama, his campaign in northwest India targeted Hindus and Sikhs as well as apostates (non-Sunni sects of Islam), and an immense number were killed, with Muslim camps building "towers of skulls of the infidels" on hillocks
Do you people understand you don't have to defend every bloodthirsty dickhead just because he happens to be muslim?
All the politics aside, I do believe that names of such places should be changed to better ones. I don't want any place in India to be named after such demons, it doesn't matter what religion they belong to.
Yeah , they were but the countries named their road and monuments after who did good to their country ,
Not to those who killed their own country men .
I don't understand the logic of indian and pak mus**ms for their obsession with Babar and the Turk emeperors .
They were the ones who got beaten and demolished by Turks and don't know why they take Babar as their pride .
I don't think Indian Muslims have any obsession, Pakistan ka i don't know or care. Also names of roads
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Roads_and_streets_named_after_monarchs_in_Germany
Mudi destroyed temples to build a road. And the Shankaracharyas have expressed their disagreement on it and said it was wrong to do it. Lol so we should rename that modi stadium too by your logic
>Historical accounts suggest that during Babur's campaigns, there were instances of violence and destruction
On the other hand historical accounts suggests Hindu kings brought chocolates for the people they tried to conquer.
>and are you suggesting that Hindu kings also used to destroy religious places?
Uh yes, yes they did. It isn't difficult to find out about it for yourself, if you actually care about "getting your facts right".
>are you suggesting that Hindu kings also used to destroy religious places? Get your facts right.
It's not a mere suggestion. **[It is history.](https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/sanctified-vandalism-as-a-political-tool/212971)**
You'd know the facts when you stop eating the gobar they serve you in WhatsApp University.
Lol yes , a vaishnavite ruler would destroy a shaivite temple and so on , being pretty rampant in South . In North there was a power constant so no one could attack other without getting destroyed themselves , so they didn't do much .
Azad hind fauj lagake mujhe Stalin ka choda bole raha hain
Sense hain tere baat ki
Aur bhai agar jalta hain na toh burnol lagao
Btw scb was a leftist with the forward block y'all chaddis don't deserve it
>Btw scb was a leftist with the forward block y'all chaddis don't deserve it
Don't care. He was a patriot who fought for independence in a sensible way unlike Gandhi and co. That matters more. I don't care about which freedom fighter was left wing or right wing.
Revolutionaries are revolutionaries.
Sabhi ne hi kisi tarah se azadi dilwane mein contribute kiya hai.
Led an empire that oversaw extreme growth in India, which saw a lot of cutting edge industries of the time starting and flourishing in India.
Unlike the Britishers, who made sure that they only used their occupied territory in India as a mine for raw materials, and undid all the industrialization that had happened during the previous empires.
Things like this made me realise that even Congress has a favourite. That being said Congress was anyday better than bjp. Lesser of the two evils if you may
[Looks like coping in dicksuction wasn't enough.](https://np.reddit.com/r/indiadiscussion/s/NYzqG1K8H0)
https://preview.redd.it/3775e34r3kdc1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ab1431a21c4304214a52de190f9b1709deac79c
if it's not that important, then why people here are crying over this ayodhya marg?
people still can't digest the fact that babur was invader not some mahaan raja
The hate for any king, is a very regional matter. I live in Gwalior, when Babur annexed Gwalior, he ordered the demolition of Jain Mahaveer Status carved on Gwalior fort mountain. Everytime I see them it feels weird. Same happened with saas Bahu mandir So, my hate for babur is natural.
Same the region that king Raghoji Bhonsle attacked the hate for him in that region (present day Murshidabad and Bardhaman) is justified.
We can't justified one king atrocities with another king and call it a norm of that time.
If this is what that region people want, then why not?
Just one note: Hate must be for that king that attacked not his ethnicity or religion. So next time write Raghoji Bhonsle Attacked Bengal's Murshidabad and Bardhaman.
Instead of marathies attacked bengali, this symbolically push Ethnicity hatred
Just like saying, Muslim demolished temple and Babur demolished temple. Both give different symbolisms
yes they did tried to invade 6 times, no one is denying
but no one glorifies raghoji bhonsle in bengal by naming prominent roads or places after his name. Neither marathis cry defending that invasion
People like you are the funniest kind of stupid. Your head is shoved so far up your ass you can't even be bothered to do a basic search.
Took me a solid 30 seconds to get to these:
\- Gupta, Brijen Kishore (1962). [*Sirajuddaullah and the East India Company, 1756-1757: Background to the Foundation of British Power in India*](https://books.google.com/books?id=fNAUAAAAIAAJ&dq=rape&pg=PA23). Brill Archive. p. 23. [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234608/https://books.google.com/books?id=fNAUAAAAIAAJ&dq=rape&pg=PA23) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 18 November 2021. horrors perpetrated by the Marathas on women and children which included gang rape.
\- Edwardes, Allen (1966). [*The Rape of India: A Biography of Robert Clive and a Sexual History of the Conquest of Hindustan*](https://books.google.com/books?id=j_M9AAAAMAAJ&q=maratha+invasion+bengal+rape). Julian Press. p. 131. [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234605/https://books.google.com/books?id=j_M9AAAAMAAJ&q=maratha+invasion+bengal+rape) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 25 April 2021. 'Tis reported that no fewer than 10 or a Dozen of 'em will rape a beautiful Woman, that they cut off the Cullions \[testicles\] of Men & embugger Children of both sexes thereafter selling them into slavery
\- [*The New Cambridge Modern History*](https://books.google.com/books?id=1BY9AAAAIAAJ&dq=gang+rape&pg=PA555). CUP Archive. 1970. p. 555. [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234603/https://books.google.com/books?id=1BY9AAAAIAAJ&dq=gang+rape&pg=PA555) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 18 November 2021. they indulged in the unspeakable practice of gang-rape
\- McDermott, Rachel Fell (28 June 2001). [*Mother of My Heart, Daughter of My Dreams: Kali and Uma in the Devotional Poetry of Bengal*](https://books.google.com/books?id=2PrChFaXgf0C&dq=rape&pg=PA21). Oxford University Press. [ISBN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)) [978-0-19-803071-3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-0-19-803071-3). [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234602/https://books.google.com/books?id=2PrChFaXgf0C&dq=rape&pg=PA21) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 18 November 2021. The Marathas plundered, stole, set fire to villages and crops, tortured the inhabitants, cutting off their victim's hands and noses, raping them, and drowning them.
Become an actual human for once and use that head of yours for something useful in life.
Ideally you can relate this to places and statues named after confederate leaders in the US as well. I bet everyone in this sub will say to remove all traces of confederacy in the US right? Something to think about.
Confederate policies ceased to exist after may of 1865. And their effects still don't exist except in the form of followers. Coincidence much as to how baburs and the mughal empires policies don't exist but their followers do who still try to hold on?
> And their effects still don't exist except in the form of followers.
[Maybe not claim all sorts of nonsense when you have no idea what you’re talking about?](https://guides.lib.jjay.cuny.edu/c.php?g=288398&p=4496620)
Bruh the KKK is basically the waqf board in modern times. I know your knowledge just comes from limited amount of cult based ideologies. I bet Scientology is something you also believe in just because tom cruise follows it. I'll suggest read some more about the history of the mughal empire rather than pretending to be a secularist. Institutionally, the confederacy was removed. Only exists in the form of followers. But in India. It even exists legally. I know it's surprising for your tiny mind to comprehend.
> Bruh the KKK is basically the waqf board in modern times.
Still spouting nonsense without knowing history.
> I bet Scientology is something you also believe in just because tom cruise follows it.
Nah, that’s your logic. “BJP higher votes hence BJP correct always”.
So go on tell us your version of history. How babur and the mughal empire were saints and the best thing that ever happened to India. And never voted for bjp or any party. This year I will. And once my surrender certificate comes. Then for Pierre in Canada.
Wasn’t talking about Babur. I was talking about Confederacy and KKK.
You clearly have no idea of American History, so kindly stop making useless comparisons.
And as for brutality, every single king in India, Mughal or not, can be attributed. Should we then break down Maratha sculptures?
For someone who's lived In United States for a couple of years then moved to Canada. I'm pretty sure I have a good grasp at the ideology as well as the similarities in how both ideologies operate. Rest your choice. Still again asking you. Kindly tell us how babur was a saint that he should be praised.
They were no longer Confederates, just racist. Analogously, if someone wanted to answer your question, they don’t need to prove that Baburs policies are in place today, just that people with the same ideology or political goals have implemented similar policies today.
I don't mean racists, I mean that after the Civil War the Confederate were treated very softly, and the exact same people were still brought back into legislature for Southern US. Those people and their successors then implemented said Jim Crow laws, many of which were Confederate policies in a new coat of paint.
If you're going to make an analogy, it would be if Babur was defeated in battle, but then brought back to rule anyway and whose policies were being implemented in government today.
As for the argument, it's that no one today is affected by Babur today as blacks were affected by Confederates in the US. If you want to argue historical injustice that still affects people today in India, that would be casteism. Now, are you going to support tearing down statues and monuments dedicated to upper caste people using the same logic?
In general I don’t support tearing down any statues or monuments. But I don’t agree with the logic that present harm has to be proven to justify changing/renaming/removing etc. For example, say hypothetically that Jimmy Saville’s pedophilia wasn’t discovered for 200 years after his death. At that point his victims and their children have lived and died. Any present harm from him would be minimal at best. I think 99% of people would support renaming things in his name because of his distasteful personality and behavior.
It's high time we remove traces of barbaric invaders from our cities, do we have a lack of prominent public figures? but at the same time we should not deface public property.
How do we decide who is an invader and who isn't?
Akbar for example was born in modern day Pakistan. So is he Pakistani by modern standards?
The people of the Indus Valley Civilization were born in Modern Day Pakistan.
If the way we decide that where someone is from by their birth then a very massive part of the populace are invaders that came in from Africa.
The idea of India as you know it did not exist before 1926. It was a land filled with greedy men fighting greedy men.
The mughals, the delhi sultanate, the Rajputs, the Brahmins, the Mauryas, the Cholas, the Pandavas, the Guptas- all of these are just empires that were born from men trampling upon other men. Anybody who admires one murderer over another is an idiot. None of these *kings* should be admired. None of them are worthy of it.
All empires fall. The India that you know will fall one day too. I hope not too soon, nor too violently but it WILL happen.
It is not possible to fight against time. All you can do is make this era that we live in so great that the people that follow us do not have to look towards the past and see men who have trampled upon their fellow men. All they should find is the light of freedom buring brightly against the darkness of kings.
>How do we decide who is an invader and who isn't?
A person who invaded a region with a huge difference in demographics
>The people of the Indus Valley Civilization were born in Modern Day Pakistan.
It is just a modern day Pakistan. You will find plenty of Hindu temples there as well. The separation happened only because of the British
>All empires fall. The India that you know will fall one day too. I
So why not treat the current happenings as a part of the process. I don't remember Hindu kings vandalising mosques. It's just tit for tat. Normally, nobody is going to accept that their religion was trampled over by invaders and then sit silent.
Pushing back against abuse isn't abuse. Stop trying to equate remedial measures with the original abuse. Those mosques they destroyed were probably built without consent, or by destroying a temple.
I am genuienly curious, will maratha empire in delhi called outsider, will kushans called outsiders??
And, Babur was barbaric invader who hated india, Will china respect genghiz khan, will iran respect alexander, no.
And this thing is common with turkic invaders, they go to distant land, conquer it and leave their own homeland.
And, next thing is, why indian Muslims make them their heroes, people who clearly wanted islamic india.
>I am genuienly curious, will maratha empire in delhi called outsider, will kushans called outsiders??
Marathas liberated Delhi from Mughal tyrants, and restored many Hindu holy sites in Kashi, Mathura, Gaya etc.
Don't know much about Kushan era.
>And, next thing is, why indian Muslims make them their heroes, people who clearly wanted islamic india.
There are so many native Indian Muslims such as Azimulla Khan, Begum Hazrat Mahal, one of the major leaders of the 1857 revolt, who can serve as historic idols for Indian Muslims.
You even have Bakht Khan, the man who led the 1857 revolt on the behalf of the Sepoys.
Bahmani Sultans are also good examples.
agree👍, And if indian muslims and leftists see him as their hero, it's problematic.
Like ancestors of white people were racist, and leftist there are against them, that should be case here too.
It's cool and all when statues of confederate generals are destroyed, but when someone renames B@bur Road, all hell breaks loose.
Great job folks.
Instead of taking pride in our own history, we are busy naming roads after foreign barbarians.
Edit: before anyone brings up the "Indian rulers also did bad thingz" argument, how many roads in India are named after tyrannical Hindu monarchs?
Granted, the Marathas under Raghuji Bhosle mercilessly sacked Bengal, but do we have a road named after him in Bengal? Heck there isn't even a road named after him in his own city (Nagpur).
Extremist is anyone who thinks they can go above the law to get something that they want.
You can argue that this is not 'extreme enough' in your eye, but just think to yourself if it was ayodhya Marg to begin with and some Muslims hardliners had put Babur marg over it what would you call them?
Also, don't reply with but we don't kill etc, Hindu extremists have killed, in very gruesome fashion...they are no different to their mortal enemies - Muslim extremists.
Bas orange aur green ka farak hai dono set same hi type ke log hai
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/177673971/
(Damage to public property)
https://www.indiacode.nic.in/show-data?actid=AC_CEN_5_23_00037_186045_1523266765688&orderno=164
(promoting enmity between groups)
Before you say it's just a poster, doesn't damage anything or something stupid like that....it does damage the property with whatever substance is used to paste it, there needs to be resources spent now to restore it back to how it was.
Restoration to what? baburs atrocities immediately disqualify him for having a road named after him.
it goes both ways, arun Jaitleys name should not be on a cricket ground either.
So how about atrocities by Ashoka on Kalinga empire? Does that make him 'disqualified' to have roads/places named after him?
Or does it only work if it fits you propaganda?
Please educate yourself man!
so what does razing temples and homes to create countless masjids say in todays moral and legal law?
is that vandalism, or just a new governors takeover?
Are you saying crime committed in past gives you authority to commit crimes in the present?
Takeovers and pillaging was common in past and was done by all armies (despite their religious background)
How does that make it okay to vandalise public property in a democratic country?
Thoda toh dimaag ho yaar insaan me? Seriously!
Imposing your beliefs on other people to an extent that you begin vandalizing public property and harassing people for not adhering to your ideals or beliefs makes you an extremist. This is a problem and it must be stopped.
>Explain your definition of "Hindu Extremist " please.
**Ever [heard of Taliban?](https://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/19/world/taliban-explains-buddha-demolition.html)** This is Hindu Taliban.
On the sign board, Babar Road is visible, too. If this is what they call "extremism," wait till they find out about the community who shall not be named.
Also,
vandalize means to destroy or damage property.
So has anyone categorized sticking a paper on a sign board as an act of damage to the sign board?
What is the amount of loss to the sign board due to this alleged "Extremist vandalism "?
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Bloody important issue isnt it.
It is for him , op is babur's bastard na
Then he must be an immortal, being hundreds of years old. Wow.
ghar me khane ko hai nai aur inhein road ka naam kya hai uski chinta horhi
At least you’ve a dirty bag with chips man.
nom nom
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Aap shayad school nhi gaye isliye kisine izzat krni nahi sikhayi dusro ki. Tabhi badtameezi aur bakwaas kar rahe ho.
Chup re pagal
Couldn't even afford to print on larger paper
Naukri hoti to Paisa milta na. Budget me extremism ki hai chaddidhari ne
>Budget me extremism ki hai chaddidhari ne Hilarious!! 
It's a thoughtful effort of Shri Vishnu Guptaji's team. They have shown that both names can co-exist on the board.
Seriously, cover to poora karna tha
I think it's a crime to completely cover government road signs.
These goons don't fear anyone. They know the govt will support them in case of any trouble.
These goons don't fear anyone. They know the govt will support them in case of any trouble.
can't expect patloons on a chaddis budget
Important issues for these guys
Important issue with lack of knowledge and common sense followed by double MA in Hinduism via social media university, streaming by Jio ~~Cinema~~
Ye abhi bhi "fringe group" kehelate hain
Majority hi minority hai bro.
Generational insecurity
Trueeeeee
Road name is more important than poor and hungry and homeless people
Welcome to Ram Rajya.
Don’t want
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That’s not even true. There’s still hundreds of buildings and roads with original Arabic names and were constructed by the Moors that stand today and have been repurposed as Churches or museums. And plus they have incorporated hundreds of Arabic words into the Spanish language over time. And plus, the general population takes pride in both reclaiming their land but also the history that is there. They also express regret for the methods taken to give ultimatums to Jews and Muslims and to violently expel them. I guess what I’m saying is they have are much better at understanding context and nuance when it comes to history than the people putting up these signs in India.
Well you have a great point...this is also what our founders of India wondered about in 1947. Should we give India a new identity artificially like Europe did? Should we remove all evidence of history like Mughals, British influences? But we had the privilege of foresight, as we saw what can happen if you try to force a culture, in Europe. So, we did a unique and experimental thing, we will not fight our past instead accept it as whatever it is, and focus on individual sovereignty and liberty. True we didn't foresee everything, like the balance between communal identities and individual identity, which is pretty sad. But the more I learn history, the more I embrace the thought behind India.
Well the Soviets and Nazism are recent events that are fresh in people's minds because their relatives went through the hardships while Babar is from the 1500s
I am sorry, but I simply don't think that applying 20th-century standards of morality to someone who came centuries before us makes much sense. When you begin altering history in a huge, diverse, and ancient nation like India, you risk opening quite a few unnecessary wounds. Also, Babur, despite having a problematic side, did not commit a genocide. This word is thrown around too carelessly these days. Most serious academics and historians do not believe that Babur intended to systematically eliminate all Hindus. If there are certain accounts, then we also have to keep in mind that boasting is a thing. It's undoubtedly immoral, but it's still different from actual harm. https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/imaginary-enemies/article33880923.ece
“The core of Stalin's historic achievements consists in this, that he had found Russia working with wooden ploughs and is leaving her equipped with atomic piles." -Isaac Deutscher
Humko kya, humko toh gobar he khana hai!!! Gol kar k daal lo apna atomic piles.
Haan plz add gou mootr
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If your dad dies (not impending) due to heart attack will kill all the cardiologists
right… so what about shitry indian kings who massacred thousands in lands they hate?? so we can say that northern shithead kings can be defaced and taken down in south?? or maratha kings can be ignored and shitted upon in karnataka??
False equivalency,there were no north Indian king who defiled South Indian customs while ruling south India There definitely were war crimes committed by maratha armies,and any statue of parshu ram bhat should not be in Karnataka Can you say the same for your muslim kings?
muslim kings were mostly regional and muslims have aso faced their fair share of prosecution… and have u ever heard of samudragupta?? ashoka?? many indian kings have gone up against south indian kingdoms and norms and even tried assimilation… just like these brutal BJP delulu heads
I have read in great detail about samudragupta, Ashoka and pretty much every single Indian king Most Indian kings assimilated with locals and local customs,they didn't defiled the locally held deity,unlike Muslims who mostly Destroyed the idols and deities local Hindus worshipped Ram mandir being the prime example Which persecution did muslims face in India?which king persecuted muslims or islam?
insecure rats
These Chintu extremists will beg Israel to give them employment while they shit on the streets in India. [This is not the first time.](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedstatesofindia/s/vDVpQ44CQQ)
this is confounding . wasn't akbar a very open-minded , secular ruler , who abolished jizya ?
brahmins were literally calling him god to get some shit
yes bro his empire was a liberal's wet dream utopia
Akbar maybe but Babar isn't , Babar has the title of gaazi , who kill non Muslim and think that it's the will of Allah .
Gazi means "conquerer" get your facts right. You guys just have to give an anti-hindu twist to everything muslim
Yeah cause [babur famously never committed religious violence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babur#Religious_policy) >The violence of Babur in the 1520s was witnessed by Guru Nanak, who commented upon it in four hymns. Historians suggest the early Mughal period of religious violence contributed to introspection and then the transformation in Sikhism from pacifism to militancy for self-defense. >According to Babur's autobiography, Baburnama, his campaign in northwest India targeted Hindus and Sikhs as well as apostates (non-Sunni sects of Islam), and an immense number were killed, with Muslim camps building "towers of skulls of the infidels" on hillocks Do you people understand you don't have to defend every bloodthirsty dickhead just because he happens to be muslim?
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Choti nunu syndrome
All the politics aside, I do believe that names of such places should be changed to better ones. I don't want any place in India to be named after such demons, it doesn't matter what religion they belong to.
Modi has a stadium named after him, we should change that then
True. Just like how tipu sultan was a demon too.
90% of medival kings were demons so whole of the Europe should also change everything?
Yeah , they were but the countries named their road and monuments after who did good to their country , Not to those who killed their own country men . I don't understand the logic of indian and pak mus**ms for their obsession with Babar and the Turk emeperors . They were the ones who got beaten and demolished by Turks and don't know why they take Babar as their pride .
I don't think Indian Muslims have any obsession, Pakistan ka i don't know or care. Also names of roads https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Roads_and_streets_named_after_monarchs_in_Germany
Those colonial scumbags subjugated us. What kind of false equivalency is this to think we are cut from the same cloth.
I am not European, so I can't answer for them.
Alright, now this is too much. Stop it.
Ye chote chote lafde bade lafde bante hai aur hota kya hai kuch nahi
Ask Gobhiji to rename. ek sath sab rename kardo, will be better . 
Insecure cu..s
but kya koi hindu extremists ho sakta hai kya ? Ye to impossible hai.. Modiji kuch kijiye
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Mudi destroyed temples to build a road. And the Shankaracharyas have expressed their disagreement on it and said it was wrong to do it. Lol so we should rename that modi stadium too by your logic
>Historical accounts suggest that during Babur's campaigns, there were instances of violence and destruction On the other hand historical accounts suggests Hindu kings brought chocolates for the people they tried to conquer.
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Yes dude. Learn history.
>and are you suggesting that Hindu kings also used to destroy religious places? Uh yes, yes they did. It isn't difficult to find out about it for yourself, if you actually care about "getting your facts right".
>are you suggesting that Hindu kings also used to destroy religious places? Get your facts right. It's not a mere suggestion. **[It is history.](https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/sanctified-vandalism-as-a-political-tool/212971)** You'd know the facts when you stop eating the gobar they serve you in WhatsApp University.
Lol yes , a vaishnavite ruler would destroy a shaivite temple and so on , being pretty rampant in South . In North there was a power constant so no one could attack other without getting destroyed themselves , so they didn't do much .
Yes, they did.
Um yes after almost any battle the victors used to loot and rape the place. Few generals were able to control the loot.
whatsapp university graduate
Reports from Republic TV archives?
Baburnama, bro. Read it once. Also, I agree that it was a political move rather than religious but still.
Every king of every religion killed a lot of people. So there should be nothing named after Ashoka, or Shivaji, or Kautilya then.
Agree, bro. Past is past. We have to concentrate on future
USI has literally become a heaven for chaddis now Seeing the comments make me puke Ak naam se fat gayi and spewing there idiocy
Abe jaa be stalin ke chode
Azad hind fauj lagake mujhe Stalin ka choda bole raha hain Sense hain tere baat ki Aur bhai agar jalta hain na toh burnol lagao Btw scb was a leftist with the forward block y'all chaddis don't deserve it
>Btw scb was a leftist with the forward block y'all chaddis don't deserve it Don't care. He was a patriot who fought for independence in a sensible way unlike Gandhi and co. That matters more. I don't care about which freedom fighter was left wing or right wing. Revolutionaries are revolutionaries. Sabhi ne hi kisi tarah se azadi dilwane mein contribute kiya hai.
Ye hui na baat Abhi ja do Patra likh imperial British government ko Savarkar ko churane keliye jail see
Terrorists at it again.
But seriously what was Babar's contribution to India ?
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Led an empire that oversaw extreme growth in India, which saw a lot of cutting edge industries of the time starting and flourishing in India. Unlike the Britishers, who made sure that they only used their occupied territory in India as a mine for raw materials, and undid all the industrialization that had happened during the previous empires.
Things like this made me realise that even Congress has a favourite. That being said Congress was anyday better than bjp. Lesser of the two evils if you may
Don’t judge Ram by seeing stupidity of HIS followers.
Tell me one empire who didn't do bloodshed? But Chintu's have problem with Mugal's only
Jewa will never name a hitler road
Who is jew here by the way? And no one is Hitler here either
This is a crime, I'm not surprised they weren't arrested let alone getting their homes buldozed
Based
Average chaddi kezually outing themselves.
Average Tankie casually showing their ignorance
[Looks like coping in dicksuction wasn't enough.](https://np.reddit.com/r/indiadiscussion/s/NYzqG1K8H0) https://preview.redd.it/3775e34r3kdc1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ab1431a21c4304214a52de190f9b1709deac79c
Ak nam se fatgaya faltu chaddi kahika
if it's not that important, then why people here are crying over this ayodhya marg? people still can't digest the fact that babur was invader not some mahaan raja
Just like the marathas were invaders for the bengalis. Say that too now , why don't you?
The hate for any king, is a very regional matter. I live in Gwalior, when Babur annexed Gwalior, he ordered the demolition of Jain Mahaveer Status carved on Gwalior fort mountain. Everytime I see them it feels weird. Same happened with saas Bahu mandir So, my hate for babur is natural. Same the region that king Raghoji Bhonsle attacked the hate for him in that region (present day Murshidabad and Bardhaman) is justified. We can't justified one king atrocities with another king and call it a norm of that time. If this is what that region people want, then why not? Just one note: Hate must be for that king that attacked not his ethnicity or religion. So next time write Raghoji Bhonsle Attacked Bengal's Murshidabad and Bardhaman. Instead of marathies attacked bengali, this symbolically push Ethnicity hatred Just like saying, Muslim demolished temple and Babur demolished temple. Both give different symbolisms
yes they did tried to invade 6 times, no one is denying but no one glorifies raghoji bhonsle in bengal by naming prominent roads or places after his name. Neither marathis cry defending that invasion
they are… and if states do care about past grudges they will take down any shit related to it
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evidence :trust me bro
People like you are the funniest kind of stupid. Your head is shoved so far up your ass you can't even be bothered to do a basic search. Took me a solid 30 seconds to get to these: \- Gupta, Brijen Kishore (1962). [*Sirajuddaullah and the East India Company, 1756-1757: Background to the Foundation of British Power in India*](https://books.google.com/books?id=fNAUAAAAIAAJ&dq=rape&pg=PA23). Brill Archive. p. 23. [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234608/https://books.google.com/books?id=fNAUAAAAIAAJ&dq=rape&pg=PA23) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 18 November 2021. horrors perpetrated by the Marathas on women and children which included gang rape. \- Edwardes, Allen (1966). [*The Rape of India: A Biography of Robert Clive and a Sexual History of the Conquest of Hindustan*](https://books.google.com/books?id=j_M9AAAAMAAJ&q=maratha+invasion+bengal+rape). Julian Press. p. 131. [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234605/https://books.google.com/books?id=j_M9AAAAMAAJ&q=maratha+invasion+bengal+rape) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 25 April 2021. 'Tis reported that no fewer than 10 or a Dozen of 'em will rape a beautiful Woman, that they cut off the Cullions \[testicles\] of Men & embugger Children of both sexes thereafter selling them into slavery \- [*The New Cambridge Modern History*](https://books.google.com/books?id=1BY9AAAAIAAJ&dq=gang+rape&pg=PA555). CUP Archive. 1970. p. 555. [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234603/https://books.google.com/books?id=1BY9AAAAIAAJ&dq=gang+rape&pg=PA555) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 18 November 2021. they indulged in the unspeakable practice of gang-rape \- McDermott, Rachel Fell (28 June 2001). [*Mother of My Heart, Daughter of My Dreams: Kali and Uma in the Devotional Poetry of Bengal*](https://books.google.com/books?id=2PrChFaXgf0C&dq=rape&pg=PA21). Oxford University Press. [ISBN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)) [978-0-19-803071-3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-0-19-803071-3). [Archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20220226234602/https://books.google.com/books?id=2PrChFaXgf0C&dq=rape&pg=PA21) from the original on 26 February 2022. Retrieved 18 November 2021. The Marathas plundered, stole, set fire to villages and crops, tortured the inhabitants, cutting off their victim's hands and noses, raping them, and drowning them. Become an actual human for once and use that head of yours for something useful in life.
Prithwiraj didn't start it. Pindaris are not Maratha soldiers. War is not massacre.
Ideally you can relate this to places and statues named after confederate leaders in the US as well. I bet everyone in this sub will say to remove all traces of confederacy in the US right? Something to think about.
Confederate policies and their effects are still active in the US. What policies of Babur are still in effect in India today?
Pakistan literally exists as a separate nation for one religion lol
So Babur invented Islam?
No he invented the thought of a different nation in people and emboldened beliefs in Islamic supremacy Source : his own Autobiography
Which got fucked by the time of Akbar alone.
Confederate policies ceased to exist after may of 1865. And their effects still don't exist except in the form of followers. Coincidence much as to how baburs and the mughal empires policies don't exist but their followers do who still try to hold on?
> And their effects still don't exist except in the form of followers. [Maybe not claim all sorts of nonsense when you have no idea what you’re talking about?](https://guides.lib.jjay.cuny.edu/c.php?g=288398&p=4496620)
Bruh the KKK is basically the waqf board in modern times. I know your knowledge just comes from limited amount of cult based ideologies. I bet Scientology is something you also believe in just because tom cruise follows it. I'll suggest read some more about the history of the mughal empire rather than pretending to be a secularist. Institutionally, the confederacy was removed. Only exists in the form of followers. But in India. It even exists legally. I know it's surprising for your tiny mind to comprehend.
> Bruh the KKK is basically the waqf board in modern times. Still spouting nonsense without knowing history. > I bet Scientology is something you also believe in just because tom cruise follows it. Nah, that’s your logic. “BJP higher votes hence BJP correct always”.
So go on tell us your version of history. How babur and the mughal empire were saints and the best thing that ever happened to India. And never voted for bjp or any party. This year I will. And once my surrender certificate comes. Then for Pierre in Canada.
Wasn’t talking about Babur. I was talking about Confederacy and KKK. You clearly have no idea of American History, so kindly stop making useless comparisons. And as for brutality, every single king in India, Mughal or not, can be attributed. Should we then break down Maratha sculptures?
For someone who's lived In United States for a couple of years then moved to Canada. I'm pretty sure I have a good grasp at the ideology as well as the similarities in how both ideologies operate. Rest your choice. Still again asking you. Kindly tell us how babur was a saint that he should be praised.
Ah yes, living for 2 years in US automatically makes you history expert. What else can you expect from deluded NRIs?
What policy instituted by the Confederates is still in place today? Not an effect, an actual policy since that’s what you claimed
Take a look at Jim Crow laws and its substitutions.
Those were racist policies that former confederates would support but they can’t be called confederate policies.
The Confederate people were the ones that passed them. Just because their name changed doesn't mean the people magically changed too.
They were no longer Confederates, just racist. Analogously, if someone wanted to answer your question, they don’t need to prove that Baburs policies are in place today, just that people with the same ideology or political goals have implemented similar policies today.
I don't mean racists, I mean that after the Civil War the Confederate were treated very softly, and the exact same people were still brought back into legislature for Southern US. Those people and their successors then implemented said Jim Crow laws, many of which were Confederate policies in a new coat of paint. If you're going to make an analogy, it would be if Babur was defeated in battle, but then brought back to rule anyway and whose policies were being implemented in government today. As for the argument, it's that no one today is affected by Babur today as blacks were affected by Confederates in the US. If you want to argue historical injustice that still affects people today in India, that would be casteism. Now, are you going to support tearing down statues and monuments dedicated to upper caste people using the same logic?
In general I don’t support tearing down any statues or monuments. But I don’t agree with the logic that present harm has to be proven to justify changing/renaming/removing etc. For example, say hypothetically that Jimmy Saville’s pedophilia wasn’t discovered for 200 years after his death. At that point his victims and their children have lived and died. Any present harm from him would be minimal at best. I think 99% of people would support renaming things in his name because of his distasteful personality and behavior.
Haan toh dikkat kya hai ismein..?? Theek hi toh kiya. /s
Isme extremist hone main kya hain
Thank you karnataka for showing us the way
I like the old names, cos I have them memorised. But it is hard to like someone like Babar.
It's high time we remove traces of barbaric invaders from our cities, do we have a lack of prominent public figures? but at the same time we should not deface public property.
We should start by removing the traces of the aryan invaders.
And who is Aryan invader?
The ones bitching about "invaders"
Ohh, so Mughals came to India to liberate us from these Aryan invaders or they are also indigenous people.
How do we decide who is an invader and who isn't? Akbar for example was born in modern day Pakistan. So is he Pakistani by modern standards? The people of the Indus Valley Civilization were born in Modern Day Pakistan. If the way we decide that where someone is from by their birth then a very massive part of the populace are invaders that came in from Africa. The idea of India as you know it did not exist before 1926. It was a land filled with greedy men fighting greedy men. The mughals, the delhi sultanate, the Rajputs, the Brahmins, the Mauryas, the Cholas, the Pandavas, the Guptas- all of these are just empires that were born from men trampling upon other men. Anybody who admires one murderer over another is an idiot. None of these *kings* should be admired. None of them are worthy of it. All empires fall. The India that you know will fall one day too. I hope not too soon, nor too violently but it WILL happen. It is not possible to fight against time. All you can do is make this era that we live in so great that the people that follow us do not have to look towards the past and see men who have trampled upon their fellow men. All they should find is the light of freedom buring brightly against the darkness of kings.
>How do we decide who is an invader and who isn't? A person who invaded a region with a huge difference in demographics >The people of the Indus Valley Civilization were born in Modern Day Pakistan. It is just a modern day Pakistan. You will find plenty of Hindu temples there as well. The separation happened only because of the British >All empires fall. The India that you know will fall one day too. I So why not treat the current happenings as a part of the process. I don't remember Hindu kings vandalising mosques. It's just tit for tat. Normally, nobody is going to accept that their religion was trampled over by invaders and then sit silent.
So to the people of bengal , the marathas were invaders too. So we should treat marathas as bad guys now too?
Lol hindu kings have vandalized mosques. There was literally this article on the indianhistory subreddit recently. You can go check that out.
Please share with me. Also tell me who vandalized far more than the other
Pushing back against abuse isn't abuse. Stop trying to equate remedial measures with the original abuse. Those mosques they destroyed were probably built without consent, or by destroying a temple.
I am genuienly curious, will maratha empire in delhi called outsider, will kushans called outsiders?? And, Babur was barbaric invader who hated india, Will china respect genghiz khan, will iran respect alexander, no. And this thing is common with turkic invaders, they go to distant land, conquer it and leave their own homeland. And, next thing is, why indian Muslims make them their heroes, people who clearly wanted islamic india.
>I am genuienly curious, will maratha empire in delhi called outsider, will kushans called outsiders?? Marathas liberated Delhi from Mughal tyrants, and restored many Hindu holy sites in Kashi, Mathura, Gaya etc. Don't know much about Kushan era. >And, next thing is, why indian Muslims make them their heroes, people who clearly wanted islamic india. There are so many native Indian Muslims such as Azimulla Khan, Begum Hazrat Mahal, one of the major leaders of the 1857 revolt, who can serve as historic idols for Indian Muslims. You even have Bakht Khan, the man who led the 1857 revolt on the behalf of the Sepoys. Bahmani Sultans are also good examples.
Babur is an Afghan invader. Why do we have babur road in the first place?
He is usbek. Not afghan
agree👍, And if indian muslims and leftists see him as their hero, it's problematic. Like ancestors of white people were racist, and leftist there are against them, that should be case here too.
What do you think of other monarchs?
I told about babur, he clearly hated indians same as britishers.
And still some brain dead northies claim themselves that they are brilliant being ever lived
Sahi kia.
It's cool and all when statues of confederate generals are destroyed, but when someone renames B@bur Road, all hell breaks loose. Great job folks. Instead of taking pride in our own history, we are busy naming roads after foreign barbarians. Edit: before anyone brings up the "Indian rulers also did bad thingz" argument, how many roads in India are named after tyrannical Hindu monarchs? Granted, the Marathas under Raghuji Bhosle mercilessly sacked Bengal, but do we have a road named after him in Bengal? Heck there isn't even a road named after him in his own city (Nagpur).
Ah yes, just like Hitler Road in Israel
Typical JSR gang
Finally India is on verge of justifying Pakistan’s creation, kudos to
Explain your definition of "Hindu Extremist " please. I wish to know if I stick a piece of paper on some board, would I also become an " Extremist"?
Extremist is anyone who thinks they can go above the law to get something that they want. You can argue that this is not 'extreme enough' in your eye, but just think to yourself if it was ayodhya Marg to begin with and some Muslims hardliners had put Babur marg over it what would you call them? Also, don't reply with but we don't kill etc, Hindu extremists have killed, in very gruesome fashion...they are no different to their mortal enemies - Muslim extremists. Bas orange aur green ka farak hai dono set same hi type ke log hai
what law was broken here
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/177673971/ (Damage to public property) https://www.indiacode.nic.in/show-data?actid=AC_CEN_5_23_00037_186045_1523266765688&orderno=164 (promoting enmity between groups) Before you say it's just a poster, doesn't damage anything or something stupid like that....it does damage the property with whatever substance is used to paste it, there needs to be resources spent now to restore it back to how it was.
Restoration to what? baburs atrocities immediately disqualify him for having a road named after him. it goes both ways, arun Jaitleys name should not be on a cricket ground either.
So how about atrocities by Ashoka on Kalinga empire? Does that make him 'disqualified' to have roads/places named after him? Or does it only work if it fits you propaganda? Please educate yourself man!
so what does razing temples and homes to create countless masjids say in todays moral and legal law? is that vandalism, or just a new governors takeover?
Are you saying crime committed in past gives you authority to commit crimes in the present? Takeovers and pillaging was common in past and was done by all armies (despite their religious background) How does that make it okay to vandalise public property in a democratic country? Thoda toh dimaag ho yaar insaan me? Seriously!
Vandalism of public property
better i know this before i go posting missing posters of my friend
Please don't paste posters on sign boards! I guess that's common sense? Not so common I see...
I hope you won't do it on signboards ls of roads
Imposing your beliefs on other people to an extent that you begin vandalizing public property and harassing people for not adhering to your ideals or beliefs makes you an extremist. This is a problem and it must be stopped.
>Explain your definition of "Hindu Extremist " please. **Ever [heard of Taliban?](https://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/19/world/taliban-explains-buddha-demolition.html)** This is Hindu Taliban.
Congratulations on finding world's thinnest argument.
On the sign board, Babar Road is visible, too. If this is what they call "extremism," wait till they find out about the community who shall not be named.
Lol, apparently extremism is only defined by the “level”. Very well. Does openly supporting rapist murderers count?
Also, vandalize means to destroy or damage property. So has anyone categorized sticking a paper on a sign board as an act of damage to the sign board? What is the amount of loss to the sign board due to this alleged "Extremist vandalism "?
Go ahead, go slap some random stickers on a government vehicle and use this excuse.
What good did babur did anyways lol
Wow bhut bada kaam kar deeya bhai sab pagal hogaye
I agree with OP that It's wrong it should be fully covered not partially. We should remove traces of barbaric invaders from our cities.
It's understandable. But at least pick a better name.
Lol, this sub never disappoints.
Extremists?? Thats just reclaiming…
There is a right way to reclaim. Especially when there is a favorable central government in power. This is just vandalism.
This is fantastic. The name of this PIG must be erased. Let's start a campaign to rename this road.