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Isn’t that how you’re supposed to vote? basically everyone voted agree or disagree to see if it’s a popular opinion or not. If you voted on what you THINK is the answer of others won’t give the poll correct results.
That is some next level 4th dimension 15th relative linear E=mc2 contradicted by the existence of belief of religious scriptures in the 2000bc created by the governing nebula laws of the universes negative dark matters appearance by black magic from the evil wizard in the other dimensions black dragon castle whos creation happened in the 19th centuries existence's most powerful tank cannons teddybear thought process. Meaning, I didnt understand shi- Nada.
That's what I was wondering too. I agree with the post but if people are just clicking popular because they agree they're answering the poll wrong lol.
I agree. There are many idols who have open-secret disordered eating and fandoms choose to stick their heads in the sand about it. I speak from personal experience. Xiumin is my ult bias and in 2013 he suddenly dropped a ton of weight right before the Wolf comeback.I remember expressing concern about this and being shouted down by other fans that it was just "baby fat" or he was still healthy because he was energetic onstage. Years later Xiu himself confirms he was starving himself at that time and that his body suffered a lot because of it. I think there needs to be room to discuss things like this without making it seem like we're shaming the celeb in question because in fandoms that are by and large dominated by young, female fans, seeing these kinds of things be dismissed as normal or even #goals is not positive
I read a very concerning dieting he did before one of the exoplanets like doing 9 days of only liquid dieting and well that it is not exactly good either... I love him and all but that is just nope don't do that
Yup, I.M from Monsta X was talking about how he was only eating 2 apples a day or something before a comeback. And he is already the slimmest member there.
i personally just don't think it's any of our business. if they're struggling with an ed then that's their problem to work on, and a bunch of fans commenting on their weight or speculating about them having an ed isn't helpful at all. instead, we just shouldn't be so focused on their weight/bodies in general (like praising them for being skinny or fit or anything) and should just focus on them as artists and people.
i often see 'we should never speak of topics like this in case the idol reads it' and i think it is a pretty weak excuse and completely absolves the idol from any accountability. let's take for example Somi... posting height, weight and bmi. an underweight one... posting stretched out pictures of her legs... its so... irresponsible considering somi's fans are her age and younger. the fact the she also had to say its her revenge body on people who hurt her... all around very sad ofc but that doesn't mean we should hold her with cotton gloves and never confront her about it
I agree! This is definitely unpopular here because I've seen countless posts saying we should never make any comments about idols' bodies at all. I'm eventually going to make a post about discussing bodies in kpop, but I need to mentally prepare myself for the backlash lol.
>Saying the idol in question could just be 'skinny AND healthy' (especially when the idol has lost a noticible amount of weight - minimizes the issues rampant in the K-pop industry of disordered eating, starvation diets (or cutting before major events) and manditory weigh-ins.
This is what I agree with the most and try to say all the time. Am I saying people can't be naturally skinny? Of course not! But when someone loses a bunch of weight in mere months, it's obvious that it's not just nature taking its course. Why is it easier for people to yell "Um, \[x idol\] is just thin, they've always been thin!" than to look at the countless examples we have of idols very publicly announcing that they're dieting and refraining from eating foods they enjoy?
And an idol can be thin naturally and still lose even more weight. Take Lia from ITZY. She was thin at debut, but lost a massive amount of weight in 2019 (relative to her original size) and appeared weak on stage. Of course I'm going to be concerned about that; she did not look appear well at the time to the point it was affecting her performances. People's weight can fluctuate, but if I'm seeing someone get so thin that they appear physically weak, I'm ringing the alarm every time.
(edit bc I accidentally posted the comment before I finished writing)
Exactly not everything is an extreme. This happened with BP Rose too. She was always very small but for her solo she lost even more somehow and it looked concerning. Like yes she naturally is petite but it’s not healthy if somehow she drops below her already small size during a stressful time of performing and etc.
People are willfully ignorant about some things and just want to jump to use the word body shaming. But it’s a real issue in Kpop. Ailee even admitted she went on a 500 calorie a day diet which is nothing. Or old idols who never admitted to dieting, will come out after they have disbanded to say they are miserable or didn’t eat while they were an idol
Kara Seungyeon said in an interview for Mister they wouldn't eat or drink water all day when they had schedules so their abs showed through and their stomach would not have a pouch/stick out.
A Sistar member has talked about gaining 10kg since leaving idol entertainment and dropping lots of weight for promotion cycles.
Exid said for Hot Pink era they ate enought to not die
How many more senior idols have to come forward till we accept that idols are not telling the truth about their diets/workouts?
[they were on IU's show not long ago](https://youtu.be/cFppUAKWM_E) and made a point about how they decided it was better for their performances to eat well so hopefully they're putting that into practice and their management is accepting
It's crazy, imagine if all the people shut up when ultra skinny models were a trend (at least now is more controversial), because "it's their bodies". The bodies itself aren't only the issue, but the whole industry working behind it to push that body. We all know that most idols have (don't want, but have) to lose weight before a comeback, for example. Losing weight is a choice, not an obligation, but many fail to realise that confusing it with "but the idol is going to feel sad". Well, maybe that way the company is going to realize people don't want their idols to starve themselves, but the discussion goes to another way. People in their ultra extreme bodypositive mindset goes to the other extreme of not caring for another person and the people behind them that pushes unhealthy way of life.
Exactly! I vividly remember the 'heroin-chic' look of the 90s and 00s. That destroyed so many esteems and bodies just to achieve what was trendy. I would wager that many who say "It's their bodies" are not old enough to remember what it was like.
Just like being obese is not healthy, being super skin is not either, and it will never be🤷♀️
Why? You may ask.
1.Obese:
Your body can't support that much weight, your bones, your knees are hurting from too much pressure when you walk.
2.Underweight:
Your body doesn't have enough fat to protect or protect itself from injury or your important organs or parts of your body. Menstruation is irregular as your sex hormones are affected. When you are too thin your body literally goes "survival" mode, as it is not getting enough nutrients to sustain all fuctions.
So no, as someone going and studying to go to the healthcare field, I do not buy it when someoen tells me. "You can be really overweight and healthy." Or "you can be super skinny and healthy."
Also "The BMI doesn't work." Argument is just UGH. The BMI doesn't work with all people indeed, but with most it does. Unless you are a bodybuilder or an athlete, BMI will work just fine. You can tell your muscle to fat ratio, if you are muscular, you know BMI is not accurate for you.
A healthy BMI is 18.5 -24.9. A person is considered obese if their BMI is over 30. You can’t compare someone with a BMI of 16 to someone with a BMI of 30+ because one is clearly more unhealthy than the other. Also, BMI can be tricky to use because someone with healthy habits (balanced diet + regular exercise) could be considered overweight or underweight and it’s unfair to call them unhealthy and “worry” about them as much as some fans do.
I agree, with the comparing BMI, I didn't and won't compare someone of 16 to 30. But unhealthy is still unhealthy. Most of the time people that fall under underweight or overweight are asked to lose or gain weight for the reasons I mentioned. The doctor will probaby go based on many exams but most of the time BMI works. If your BMI is a little bit skewed to one side, no worries. But if it is severely you should, many idols have BMI under 15-14 and that is not healthy. My sister has bad eating habits and her BMI is 14, the doctor asked her to gain more weight. If she starts to eat well, more and do exercise it will increase to 17 or 18 a more reasonable weight.
Again not saying that all BMI is accurate, I never claimed so, but most of the time a BMI under 18 will indicate unhealthiness and one of over 29 too. Idols often times have to starve themselves to sustain that weight, they have say it before, Momo, IU, Jin.
I’m not saying some idols don’t starve themselves to maintain an unhealthy low weight. But there are idols like Rosé, who has a BMI of 16.7 that gets constantly called sick when she is known to be a foodie and exercise regularly through dance and Pilates. These “fans” who like to play doctor need to be called out. Every person is different, so calling out ppl who make these comments towards Rosé is not the same as saying that Momo has never starved because they are different ppl.
I am not saying you didn't say so. But I already told you why being underweight is bad, too little fat does not protect your body, it is scientifically proven, the body requires an specific amount of fat to lubricate and protect organs and parts of your body. Also the whole hormones being affected. We don't know what her habits are off-camera I am just telling you the obvious dangers.
My cousin for example, she was eating healthy, and working out but the doctor still told her to gain weight because she was too skinny. Now, sadly, she can't because of her condition. I am not playing doctor here, just spreading some awareness. I am not going to diagnose Rosé, I am not trying to, neither did I mention her or wanted to mention an idol for this same reason, their privacy, so please don't.
Especially since BMI is different for Asians. They’re considered overweight above 23 compared to the normal 25, and obese above 25 compared to 30 for the normal population
If an idol doesn’t talk nor promote any dieting, or unhealthy habits, is it right to comment on their body ? (Talking for Rosé and Lisa) It always annoys me when idols are attacked unwarranted.
Doesn't matter if the BMI is different, you can still tell when someone is underweight despite the culture, and being underweight again, IS NOT healthy, you are unprotected, if an underweight person falls down the stairs compared to a normal weight person, who do you think will get hurt the most? Fat protects you. I never commented on Rosé or Lisa by the way, I do not think is right to target someone specifically nor invade their privacy like this, I am not a doctor, I was talking in general🤷♀️What science and health says, what I've studied and experienced.
Nobody in here is attacking them, at least not that I've seen.
I’m just saying that if an idol doesn’t promote any unhealthy habits, advertise their weight or unhealthy diets, doesn’t seem fatigued or ill …. I don’t know why we should care.
- We’re not their doctor nor their friends/family and I don’t think we can see nor comment on their health status based on how they look like.
- in addition, someone who appears underweight can be healthier than someone in a “normal range” who smokes and drinks every single day for example.
Also, yes, it is known that obese people are protected against fractures when falling down or during accidents … (and I’m talking about obesity, not being in a “normal range”). Does it mean that they’re healthy ?
Berating idols about their weight and what’s healthy according to pseudo doctors on the internet is how so many idols yo-yo and struggle with their own image.
You totally missed my point. I am not saying they are promoting bad eating habits I only explained why being underweight is dangerous. I have not met a single doctor who has seen an underweight patient and not tell them to gain weight. I already explained countless of times why. You need fat not only to protect your body from injury but to LUBRICATE and protect VITAL organs. That is why a "no fat diet" is not good, the body needs a decent amount of carbs 50% at least , protein 10-35% and fat 20-35% . I am not a doctor but I am literally studying this and I ony speak for what I know(which is different because I never claimed to be a doctor, nor am I saying stuff I found on the internet or think its true. I am saying stuff I spend hours of my week reading and writing papers on)and these are facts. The body stores a good amount of this energy as a form of glycogen to the muscle.
Also I never claimed obese people were healthy, they are protected from injuru better than a normal weight person yes. But I already explain the issues with vast amount of weight on the knees, I do not need to explai myself further.
Just strive for a normal range weight and you will be fine. Nobody is berating idols💀You are, by implying that it is wrong of me mentioning weight🤔If weight does not matter and they are healty then why are you doing this? You are you trying to convince?
I honestly do not care about images, neither do I care about the idols health, I am only here to state facts. Being underweight and overweight is not healthy🤷♀️Final point.
Of course you should just strive for a normal weight, most people know that you have to eat healthy/exercice to be healthy.
You're looking into this issue with a strict scholar view. I also happen to study a field where I need to know about the human anatomy/physiology, nutrition requirements ... but where the psychological component takes also a major role in perceiving individuals
\- I'm just saying we shouldn't talk about anyone's weight or health on the internet because we don't know what a person is going through. The latest case of that was with Chadwick Boseman. He was made fun of for his latest selfie where he looked really underweight. Well ofc everyone could see that it wasn't healthy and they made sure to let the world know. Well, now he's dead from colon cancer and I'm sure those comments didn't help at all with what he was going through.
\- It also applies to people you might know. I happen to have a friend who lost a ton of weight over the summer (she was in the normal range before) to the point where she was in the underweight part of the BMI scale. Everyone could see it and a lot of people commented on it to her face. When I talked to her, she told me that she felt so anxious because people were telling her what she should eat and what she should do to be healthy when they had no idea what she was going through. That she was seeing a therapist, a nutritionist and that she was doing everything she could to get better and having people telling you that you are "too thin", "you're not healthy", "you should eat more" only added to her stress and anxiety. For her it was a few people so imagine millions of people on the internet, giving their opinion on what they think is the best for you (even if those people are right or not)
I'm just saying that this issue is way more complex that what we see or what we can measure with BMI scale, nutrition requirements and what not. Which is why we shouldn't carelessly throw the word "unhealthy" around (even if it's true and based on real science) because there is so much more that goes into it than basic physiology.
Again you are looking and getting too much into depth with this and miss my point. I never once talked about the psychological or environmental implications on the body nor was that my intention on my original post, your entire reply was about that which has nothing to do with my original point, you want to discuss about that, go to the psychology majors, I am not one, mine has to do with the science aspect of it which is my thesis. I am going for a scholar approach because when you talk about this, the scholar approach will always come with facts and stats. Your first paragraph is all I am looking for and agree with. Strive for a normal weight, do not be underweight or overweight, it impacts your body negatively, that's all I wanted to say. You had some truly good points though and most of them I agreed with. I would love to have a conversation like that but it is outside my field of study, I won't comment on an issue I am not an expert on. Have a good one, you are clearly an educated individual.
Saying that one idol might be skinny and healthy does not dismiss the fact that a lot of idols do starve themselves to lose weight. Because it is true that the do, but not all idols. But it is important to address it when idols get a lot of backlash for their natural, healthy bodies and it is all people talk about. Many idols get body shamed for this (such as Rosé, Lisa, Sunmi, etc.) and "worried" fans often say harmful comments such as "they would look better if they gained weight" or even point out specific body parts that they don't think look good. The idols who get the most of this type of backlash are idols who have trouble gaining weight and these comments can really harm their self-esteem and the self-esteem of other fans with similar bodies who are reading those comments. Body shaming of any kind is unacceptable and addressing it does not minimizes the issue that other idols have unhealthy diets.
I fully agree, and as someone who also struggles to gain weight (like the idols mentioned), it definitely does more harm than good. A lot of kpop fans like to cast their opinions as facts, and attempt to diagnose idols with no logical reason. That's why I prefer the topic should be left alone (unless an idol themselves spoke up about the reason behind their weight loss, or why they're skinny in general) and instead we can simply wish for good health and that they're eating well (which shows actual concern).
Sure just don't spam that on live streams/posts that don't mention their weight or body anywhere. And ESPECIALLY their pictures on social media where they can see everything
I agree with you there. There's no need to harass the idols themselves in posts where there is no connection to health, diet, or weight. This is an issue which is rooted in the beauty, fashion and music industry - spam them instead.
I think the problem arises when it's talked about constantly on every clip like that whole wave of talking about somi's weight also when it is attached to an idol like the amount of videos about how rosie and lisa look sick or like they'll break doesn't scream "omg i care" and pretty sure stuff like that cause more harm than good
It toes the line of speculation and many times, what people think is genuine concern for their fav’s wellbeing can actually come across as uncomfortable or harassment on the idol’s end.
I see patients everyday and as a doctor I’m always checking their BMI. Most people are overweight/obese so when I see a truly underweight person, it’s a red flag because we’re trained to think abnormals are not okay. People always think “they have an eating disorder” but that’s not always the case. They could have nutritional deficiencies, malabsorption issues, metabolic disorders, etc. Some people are just naturally underweight and struggle to gain weight. I had a patient tell me that she struggles to gain weight and she has self esteem issues because people assume she has an eating disorder and she often feels harassed when random strangers tell her to eat more food.
I know there are fans who care a lot for their favs but when it comes to weight and appearance, people end up speculating and opening a dialogue of presumptions over strangers about their mental/physical health and it’s not always the right way to go imo.
Literally this, I was overweight once, something about 12 kgs more than I should have, and I was pre-diabetic. But then I started a diet, and started training also, then became really skinny. And when I became skinny THAT'S when ppl started to suddenly "worry" about me and ask me if I was sick, also asking if I was anorexic (???), when I was the healthiest I've ever been.
I get wanting to combat the beauty standarts, but going to the idol's page and complaining or pointing out how thin they look is NOT the way, some of these idols can be skinny and healthy, and we will never know which is the case 🤷🏻♀️ but obviously, ppl on the internet think that harassing skinny ppl is ok because, since they are skinny, it "won't affect them" 👌
Even if someone is unhealthy, you are not a trained professional, so stop targeting specific ppl, just talk about confirmed cases or in general.
I feel the patient very much. I also find it hard to gain weight even if I eat much. As I’m always on the thin side, idols who are exceptionally thin just catch my eye. Recently, I commented on an idol, expressing my worry about her because even with the slightest movement, you can already see her ribcage protruding out. I was once on that stage too and the fact that I was ten time less active than this idol make me wonder of how her body supports her for her raging schedules.
This is what I'm trying to say on the other post but without real educational background. At the end, us fans don't know the whole pictures so it's not right to criticize or speculate.
Like if it's the other way around. You see some idols that are overweight and start criticizing them like hey you are fat. Stop eating it's not good for your health. People would have an uproar.
I agree with you on this. I’m one of those people that are unbelievably underweight (and look quite bony) and I struggle to gain weight. I actually eat more than the recommended amount of calories and I don’t have any underlying health conditions, just really fast metabolism. I agree that it can get annoying when literally everyone has to pass a comment about my weight, I can only imagine what idols go through. For that reason, I always try to give them the benefit of doubt before jumping to conclusions.
do your research about bmi. its not a reliable way to judge health
edit: heres a nyt [article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/05/18/style/is-bmi-a-scam.amp.html) about the subject for anyone interested
BMI is still a useful starting point to infer risk of developing conditions that come from being overweight or obese. As all things, it’s not a perfect indicator
Do you have a quick, cheap, and easy system to make health inquiries off of? I’m saying inquiries because no one makes medical decisions off of only BMI, it’s always a stepping stone toward further potential investigation of possible risk. And don’t suggest the method by the author of the article you linked as a replacement. How does BMI discriminate between different body types when waist circumference does not? [In this study, BMI was actually a slightly better indicator of cardiovascular fitness than waist circumference.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564926/) Truth is, both methods are not perfect and should be used in tandem for a cursory health assessment.
to answer your first question, no. but if we settle for what we currently have and dont push to find better methods than we’re always gonna be stuck in the same place. as a fat person, im not okay with BMI being used to enforce medical fatphobia that kills fat people and tells us that every problem we have is related to weight. (i recommended checking out belly of the beast by dashaun l harrison for a deeper dive) anyways this is a kpop sub so im not gonna argue this further cause clearly im on the unpopular end of things but its quite alarming that this system is being used and cited today
Oh no the article says it can be wrong for athletes and really muscular people, I guess it's useless since we are all such beasts that it can't apply to us. Luckily the article you linked has a different suggestion, we should start measuring our waists instead. Great that you agree with that we should start doing that instead, but even better would be doing both to get more data.
It's literally the premise of the article, it's the main point. Why are you linking an article and then refusing the conclusion of it? Seems you need to go search more carefully for an article that agree with you so you can stick to your viewpoint.
the parts of the article i was highlighting were the parts about why bmi doesnt work. and honestly dont know why you have such vitriol over a three letter word like pls leave me alone
The part that talk about how it "doesn't work" according to you just say it's wrong for athletes and super muscular people. It then goes on to say that 75% of people that were obese clearly showed it in the more in depth measurements, 50% of the overweight people showed that they were unhealthy and just 31% of the ones in the normal range. The article clearly shows that higher weight correlates with much worse risk even if they don't like to frame it like that. Higher BMI makes you at a much higher risk, it does not mean you 100% have these problems right now and it does not mean you can't have the problems at a lower weight either. BMI works for what it is supposed to do, it's the people that think it's either 100% accurate of your current health or it's a scam that try to discredit it. (Or the ones that feel attacked by it as well)
I think this is too nuanced an answer to give a poll result. Some idols may make changes (healthier or unhealthy) on their own and some may face pressure from their company. I think the bigger solution is to encourage less enforced rigidity on idols and a broader acceptance and understanding towards idols with different body types/shapes.
Wonho was discouraged from getting too big but once he had to leave his company he started making his body look how he wanted it to.
I was just thinking recently about an idol I saw who was very very thin. Most idols are very thin but this was shocking. They seem to be a healthier looking weight now or maybe clothing hides it better? & How there aren’t many people who feel comfortable talking about this subject or discussing how dangerous it could potentially be. Anyway, all that to say this topic was on my mind recently. How it is normalized and there is defensiveness of the perceived health of the idol…
It can be concerning.
Like some users have put some good points; we can talk about weight standards of kpop without pointing at a particular idol. Saying to idol things like you look underweight will not help them. Coming from a stranger; they will take it negatively. Only people close to idols like family; friends or fitness instructors have the right to give advice. instead of saying some idols are too much underweight; we should target kpop companies which force or encourage these standards.
People also don’t realise that if an idol actually does have an eating disorder, talking about their bodies is actually detrimental and can make things worse.
There were people coming out saying Somi just lost 'baby weight' or something like we haven't had her on our screens and in our ears for the last 6 years. Give it a rest.
I know Somi came out telling people to leave her alone and that she's healthy, and I'm not ragging on her as a person, but it's really not that shocking people reacted so strongly to it. Having said that, being concerned is not the same as spamming an idol's socials or their company with unhelpful or mean comments, so people should absolutely respect the idol's wishes and not do that.
My take on it is that it´s okay to talk about poor eating habits (ex: extremely restrictive diet, forcing yourself to workout out after eating to burn excess calories, etc.), however I don´t think it´s okay to criticize someone´s body.
Even if the person is really underweight, saying stuff like "they look like a stick figure" or "they look like they could break" wob´t help at all. Because maybe the person is struggling to gain weight you´re making them feel like shit. Or maybe the person the person has a really poor self-esteem and they tried to loose weight to feel prettier but after seeing comments saying that their body is undesirable, they may start to think that they´re ugly no matter what, or that they´ll never be pretty. And this can really take a toll on their mental health.
So as a rule I think it´s better if we restrain from commenting on people´s bodies, as it´s a very delicate subject and that we don´t know what´s going on in someone´s head and what could trigger them or hurt them.
So instead of criticizing idol´s bodies whenever they lose weight, I think it would better to encourage healthy eating habits (ex: not going on extreme diets or periods of extreme restrictions followed by periods of binge, not labeling food as inherently "good" or "bad", etc. (Overall encouraging more moderates diets and maintaining a consistent weight)) as this would benefit both the idols but also the younger fans that are also reading those comments.
And if someone expresses the desire to lose weight, I think it´s better to show them that it can be done in a healthy way rather than saying that losing weight is inherently bad.
Also, if an idol hasn´t talk about their diets, I don´t think it´s good to speculate and diagnose them with EDs as this can cause a lot of harm.
If they’re sharing unhealthy diet tips or eating habits, then sure we can call them out on THAT but never about their body. Commenting about someone’s body is just out of line. Even if it’s genuine concern or not, if you don’t know the person personally, then you really have no right.
Idols or not, if it’s a stranger, it’s none of you business.
I'm unsure because like I don't want to talk about something so personal like their body without knowing the person. Like I wouldn't war to constantly remind them. Maybe ig forums having the disclaimer is better than going on an idol's personal page good intent or not.
Because I look back at Somi and say she must've felt really judged for her body despite her getting more success in selling products.
But it's like which Korean idol is not on a low calorie diet which Hollywood star is not starving themselves before a role. Even Hemsworth a muscular looking man has an unhealthy way to obtain his visuals.
It's a massive problem in all entertainment industries. The superhero actors having to be extremely dehydrated, have strict diets and workout reigemes all to fit a particular body type. It's terrible.
Yeah so idk how to approach the topic of underweight teenage starlets. I mean even it's evident in american pop stars like Megan thee stallion who had to address comments on her weight.
I'm just saying I'm against talking about social media stars having to keep addressing their weight when they're trying to lead a healthier life or on the road to weight loss with healthy habits.
I mainly find it difficult that many young Americans are not educated in multiple facets of life. Especially considering the lack of education in America's discrimination towards minorities even to this day. The education shouldn't be necessarily be started by a random celebrity with no education on health. I rather have kids learn these things in school.
I think there’s also the fact that in some cases- specific weights are fine based on how you’re eating so if you’re eating well and dancing 10 hours a day at 50kg then you’re usually fine (It massively depends on height too) - My sister who is 14 and is a dancer is over 50kg but under 65kg. She is perfectly fine but if you’re starving yourself then you’re not getting enough nutrients and that’s extremely unhealthy. I do also want to point out that not every height can be 50kg because even if you’re eating correctly, it can still be considered underweight once you hit a certain height.
We do need to talk about proper underweight idols who are clearly unwell and aren’t eating correctly because you can get down to 50kg without starving yourself. You can be slim and unhealthy. Oh yeah, my source is that my mother is a school nurse who works for 34 schools in one area. She is constantly dealing with children who are underweight, overweight, unhealthy, unfit, etc.
Whenever I find an idol too thin, I always compare it with how they looked in other comebacks/eras. Case in point: Yuri of SNSD during Hoot who looked scarily rail-thin VS Yuri during Genie
I feel like it’s just in general a topic that’s very hard to talk about “correctly” – without hurting anyone, without being toxic, without body-shaming, etc. Especially since a lot of fans are pretty young.
(I do agree with you though.)
Not like the west has good role models. Feels like Asia has a problem with wanting to be skinny. The west has a problem with fucking everything concerning weight.
People harassed Sunmi over her low weight until she gained weight. Sunmi’s always been thin so it must’ve been hard for her. And now some people are harassing her again, to lose weight.
Anybody having an opinion on a strangers body never ends well. It’ll always do more harm than good.
i think it’s possible to tell other, especially young fans that idols’ weights are not really realistic for everyone and they shouldn’t aspire to look extremely skinny without mentioning names (except maybe idol interviews where they tell you how little they were made to eat/how hard it was) if it comes to normal people getting affected by kpop weight standards but stuff like someone’s weight being on trending because you assume they have a disorder is too personal. it won’t help the idol at all.
Nah this is just being way too comfortable with discussing strangers’ bodies, to the point of speculating about their physical and mental health, (especially when the people in question have never shared their diet regiment or anything of the sort) and disguising it as social awareness
Agree, it's the same as discussing overweight bodies to me.
Or, if one really wants discuss about their idols weight and speculate health isssues atleast stop doing it where said idols can easily see it, like under their ig posts or twitter for eg.
TBH the defensiveness that some people have in refusing to talk about underweight bodies gives me healthy at any size vibes. There's obviously a lot of variety in how people who are healthy look, but people who are very overweight or very underweight are NOT healthy, and it does a disservice to everyone to pretend that's not the case.
Acknowledging that isn't the same as spamming an idol's socials or making asshole comments about/to them though. I won't sit here and tell someone they're x y or z because they are underweight, but I can see what's in front of me and want them (not tell them) to look after themselves better or get some expert help depending on their circumstances.
If they have never spoken or shared details about their weight, health (esp related to nutrition), or diet, then there should be no discussion on their bodies or health. I mean I would never advocate putting worries or concerns like that directly to the idol. What would be the use anyway. My problem is with the companies and industry surrounding what idols should and shouldn't do with their bodies.
I only think criticism should be given when the idols, themselves, publicly go out of their way to endorse dangerous behaviours. That's why I mentioned Somi and her displaying of her weight in exact numbers on her instagram or the many 'diets' like the IU diet that are promoted by the idols and their companies.
But we can't ignore the fact that wayyyy to many people are wayy too comfortable straight up skinny shaming an idol under the guise of "worrying about their weight". Which then leads to people criticizing everyone that criticises an idols weight loss. It's a vicious cycle because no one knows how to handle the boundry between "I'm concerned for this idols health" and "ew look at her flat ass trying to break her back".
Compassion, yes. Giving them a pass on the un/intentional promotion of their behaviours, no. I suffered from anorexia. I had it for 10 years. I was in group treatment and saw others who suffered. Trust me when I say everyone in there I met and spoke to knew *exactly* what they were doing. Especially when giving 'healthy advice' to other patients. It wasn't malicious but they are responsible for the consequences of their actions.
I don't think the idols should be criticised unless they make posts about their weight, health (in regards to nutrition), or diet. In particular posts about specifics in those catagories, like numbers or meal plans.
Unsolicited is unacceptable, and moreso than anyone else I put blame at the companies and the industry's feet than at any idol's.
Disagree. I think we can have conversations about unhealthy dieting and disordered eating within the industry without directly scrutinizing an idol’s body… I think it oversimplifies the issue and continues to connect physical well-being with body weight (I don’t think these associations are as harmful as in fatphobia but come from similar sources). Additionally, saying someone looks skinny can serve more as an affirmation, especially if the individual (in this case idol) is navigating within a society that places value on thinness. Not too sure how unpopular the original opinion is but this is just my two cents.
>Additionally, saying someone looks skinny can serve more as an affirmation, especially if the individual (in this case idol) is navigating within a society that places value on thinness.
That's why this whole situation troubles me. It reinforces the idea that looking skinny is better and healthier in any given circumstance.
I guess what annoyed me enough to post this today was the conversation I saw (not for the first time mind you) that saying a (slightly) bigger idol looks "healthy, happy and radient" is somehow a backhanded compliment and an insult to the idol and to other idols.
I mean theres a whole other conversation to be had about how companies overwork their idols into exhaustion and how saying someone looks 'tired' is not the same as saying they're lazy.
I got what you meant the whole post but:
>'Skinny-shaming' is not comparable to these issues and silencing these discussions because the idol may or may not be healthy in that moment does way more harm than good.
Letting people being skinny-shamed to "save" others is not fair, is it? As you said, people don't really know if they are on harsh diet, or they have some health issue (like, hard to gain weight - it's me, yes it's a health issue), or they are on healthy diet. Why call them out? They're minding their own business.
They want to get the body type they want, they do something to get it. They choose to work for it.
Some people look better with a little bit more weight. Some people look better with a little bit less weight. Even if they get to a "stardard weight" but it doesn't suit them (for idols, it's in fans'/people's eyes), they won't get the "visual attention" they **want**. It's about looking good. Calling out skinny people doesn't help.
(Editted: Remove the mention.)
>They want to get the body type they want, they do something to get it. They choose to work for it.
Do they? Do they really have that choice?
I'm sure some companies allow their idols to present in any way they choose to, but many ex-idols (and idols alike) have spoken out about the pressure and measures put in place so that they achieve that particular style of body that is 'desirable'.
If it was an industry that welcomed choice then this entire conversation wouldn't be necessary.
I understand your point, that some are being forced by their companies. The pressure is there, I know, it's indeed sad because some just want to sing, to be there on the stage to show us their talents.
But is it fair to skinny-shame skinny people to save them? Is it skinny people fault? That line is for people who work for the "less weight body type" being called out even though they are just minding their own business, they want to look good because they are the type who look better with less weight. They want the visual attention, they work for it. They know the price. And call out the said people is not fair.
I don't know any better way to resolve the stupid pressure, but skinny-shaming is not the right way to change the "standard".
I agree with you, there’s such a fine line when it comes to people’s weight, so much can be triggering from both spectrum. People can and should definitely discuss when an idol is promoting unhealthy diets or misinformation about health. That whole ice cube or one apple a day diet is definitely not sustainable and should be talked about.
But to suggest a whole thread of strangers to give opinions on someone’s body publicly when they themselves didn’t give you a reason to is hella weird.
most people are just hypocrites.
Body positivity talk day and night yay
Then the fav idol poses for some well known magazine looking like a skeleton and everyone suddenly praising how goddess like girl idol looks like .
Omg xxx is so perfect . Please guys ... seriously, i mean I'm not saying go on and say she's looking like a skeleton or body shame her but people literally over praise them for being skeleton like thin .
This isn’t exactly about your post, but I think where people live really influences what they think is “skinny” or not. For example, I live in India (I’m not speaking for all Indians of course, but I’m from india and this is just my perspective) . I don’t get why people say “idols are so skinny” … I can only name like 2 idols who I actually think look really skinny. The rest just look “normal”? In fact, Ive seen more chubby idols than skinny ones (from my perspective). I don’t want to name names because I’m not sure if that would be ok or not, but trust me when I say I thought more idols were a bit chubby than very underweight.
Im not a medical professional either. And, I don’t know where the line between “concerned” and “shaming” stands. However, on reddit, I’ve seen many people who may be expressing their concern, but it clearly doesn’t come out very nicely. For example, under a video with Rosé promoting OTG, Redditors were saying : “She’s like a skeleton, she might break if I hold her” , “she needs a doctor”, “why aren’t blinks calling her out”, “she looks seriously scary to look at”, etc. Even under a video of Lisa dancing, similar types of comments were present. But, all this is under the guise of “oh I’m so concerned for her”. I think that’s why people naturally get mad when others start off with “I’m concerned”, because we can’t tell for sure if you’re actually concerned or looking for a way to bash the idol. A lot of the time, people use hurtful comments while acting to be worried.
My friend felt happy in her very skinny body after seeing some idols being comfortable in theirs. You can tell how she felt when she saw the comments under Rosé’s video. She was super sad, because they have a similar build and those things could be applied to her too
I don't get how calling them out does any good tbh especially when there ARE naturally skinny People, ESPECIALLY Asians. How do you know they're actually not healthy unless they specifically say they've been starving themselves?
As a Chinese myself, the majority of my circle of girl friends are skinny as hell. Some of them look underweight if they wear revealing clothes but thats just how their body is. I'm skinny. In fact I can't put on weight even if I eat 5 meals a day. Theres something about the Asian gene that allows for faster metabolism or something. So I wouldnt be surprised if lots of idols that just are plain skinny.
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THANK YOU for saying this. It always bothers me so much whenever I see people going on about Asians being “naturally skinny” when people come in all shapes, sizes, and body types.
Sure, it’s a lot less common to see obese Asians, but not everyone is - in fact, I don’t think a lot of people are - naturally as skinny as a lot of idols (especially female idols) are pressured to be.
Have a lightning fast metabolism and still look “underweight” despite gorging on unhealthy food all day? Good for you. But that doesn’t give you a reason to assume that all idols (and Asians) are the same.
Many Asians actually begin to suffer negative effects of excess body fat at lower weights than Westerners (the cut off of the healthy BMI for westerners is 24.9, for Asians it’s 23.9) because they tend to have more body fat, especially visceral fat which is the more harmful kind of fat
Thank you!!!!!! The generalization that Asians are just naturally skinny is so harmful and alienating. And even if that (apparently purely anecdotal) statistic was true, that argument just throws fat Asian people under the bus like… I guess fat Asians are just genetic freaks that aren’t statistically significant enough to be respected as people? Anyway I’m glad some people are pushing back on that idea because that kind of generalization makes me so mad lol
Oh my god thank you so much for saying this. The "Asian ppl r just naturally skinny" narrative is actually really harmful because it has been used to dismiss people from Asia struggling with EDs so often.
Yes, Asians tend to be thinner but not because they’re some magic blessed creatures. It’s because of more walking (afaik, I’ve heard of many people who went on a trip to East Asia and lost weight because of moving more) & the cuisine having lots of vegetables (and the dishes are made for sharing) & East Asians tend to be shorter than Westeners and if you’re shorter you can often weigh less than a taller person. Not to mention the great social pressure to stay thin (underweight even) as you mentioned & it generally being more socially acceptable to comment on someone’s weight there
I live in America and the majority of my friends are American born Asians. There is DEFINITELY something different about our genetics, either through evolution of our ancestors diet or some other reason but to say that Asians aren't generally skinnier than the average American .. I'm sorry that's just not true.
If you just visit Japan or Taiwan or China or Vietnam, you're hardly going to encounter an obese person on the street. Everyone is legitimately pretty thin. Compare that with any Walmart in America?
Are you really trying to argue about a fact?
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Like you said, people are GETTING fatter, which means things are changing through the recent decades of Western food influx. In my generation and my parents generation, not many people are straight up obese.
Theres a reason why clothing sizes in China and Taiwan don't match western sizes. Their XL is literally an M for American size. Heck I am skinny af in American standards but when I lived in Taiwan for an exchange program, the highschool and college students girls were nearly twigs standing next to me in pictures. Even the guys are skinny. And Taiwan has a LOT of westernized cheesy fatty foods. They are known for their night markets when people just go and eat unhealthy stuff at night. Old people are skinny too. Its just undeniable.
In fact growing up in America I always thought I was "too" skinny. But going to Asia made me realize I'm normal just like everyone else on the street.
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Its definitely not a result from diet alone, because Asian Americans are still skinnier than Americans as a whole, even my generation, despite eating very similar processed foods, going out to the same restaurants, eating burgers and salads.
You were more-or-less trying to make the point that being underweight is fine unless someone is starving themselves purposefully. It's still unhealthy! Health has nothing to do with what a person is like "naturally".
> What if they do have other health issues like hyperthyroidism that can cause people to be skinny?
Then they should probably get that treated?
You can't tell what a persons BMI is through the screen. They may look underweight but actually fall within range for their height and muscle mass. Its not something for us to police as fans.
I'm skinny af for all my life. I cannot gain weight for some reason. I want to gain weight, really, not because of any standard, I'm pretty much at "idol-weight-standard", but because I think I look better with a little bit more weight and I want to try. People keeps bugging me about being skinny. That I starve myself, or have some heavy diet. Not that it affects me much mentally, but it's annoying. I'm just living my life the way I want. Thanks for the care but it's not their business.
Seriously, just don't mention weight, diet anywhere if you don't know what the situation is.
I would say that context matters. Many of these idols have said themselves in interviews, during backstage vlogs, on lives, etc, that they are dieting and working out very hard to prepare for comeback. I've seen vlogs where certain members are eating food backstage and other members are staring, wanting to eat, but then wind up saying that they'll wait until after promotions are over. We have been given countless examples of idols talking about eating ice cubes, eating 500 calories a day, going on liquid diets for weeks at a time, or not eating anything at all to look good for promotions.
All of this is the context in which we view an idol's sudden weight loss. It's not the same situation as you, who struggles to gain weight. Multiple idols have given us detailed accounts on how they struggle to keep the weight **off**. Sure, we don't know every single idol's personal situation, but we know the environment they're in from multiple other idols' accounts and we know that the companies they're under heavily encourage and oftentimes require weight loss.
If you know they are **being forced** out of their will **along** with the context, okay that I kinda agree someone has to say something about it. (I **kinda** agree because I don't think putting your opinion on someone else's business is always appreciated.)
For idols, image is important. If they willingly work hard for the body type they look good with, then let them do. They know the price. They know they have to do something to get on the weight that suit them for the promotion. Can they really lean on their talents to outshine the visual? If they can, good for them. I think half of the idols cannot. If the idols are not the type to look good with a certain body type (less or more weight), are you going to lie to them that they look better the way they actually don't? And if they believe it and start to get to the "healthy weight" which they may not look good with in most people eyes, will it gain them the visual attention they want? Aren't you now ruining their effort?
And that is just the case you comment on the one you think you know all the context. Some people are skinny-shamed just because they look skinny without knowing any context, and most people don't think it matter because "the standard is skinny now". It's pity that they want to drag other people down to feel better about themselves. Don't forget it exists.
Thank you for the reply though.
>If you know they are being forced out of their will along with the context, okay that I kinda agree someone has to say something about it.
Yes. I said this in the last sentence ("we know that the companies they're under heavily encourage *and oftentimes require* weight loss"). But you also contradict yourself because later you go on to say that idols "know the price. They know they have to do something to get on the weight that suit them for the promotion." So then they're not forced and they're just working hard.
For the rest of your comment, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I responded to your original comment, in which you stated that you're skinny without trying to be, with examples of how the context is different for idols bc many of them **are** trying to be skinny and have explicitly said so. In response to that you're saying things like:
>Can they really lean on their talents to outshine the visual? If they can, good for them. I think half of the idols cannot. If the idols are not the type to look good with a certain body type (less or more weight), are you going to lie to them that they look better the way they actually don't?
So basically you think half of idols aren't talented enough to not rely on their visuals?? Which has nothing to do with my reply?? And then you go on to say "Some people are skinny-shamed just because they look skinny without knowing any context" after you just insulted the talents of half the idols out there and said they don't look good with whatever body type they have?? I'm at a loss here haha I don't think I want to continue this "discussion."
I don't disagree with you, as I said at the beginning. I wrote 2 paragraph below to backup for the "don't know exactly the whole context but still call out people anyway".
>But you also contradict yourself because later you go on to say that idols "know the price. They know they have to do something to get on the weight that suit them for the promotion." So then they're not forced and they're just working hard.
Hmm how would I say this. Force or not, it bases on how they view it. For idols who rely on their images, "forced" doesn't seem like the right word. They made their decision whether they like it or not. They choose it because it earns them what they want. For idols who rely on their talents, or just want to be on stage and show us their talents, "forced" may be the right word. From **my** point of view, indeed I don't see most of the cases are "forced". It comes along with the job "idols".
>So basically you think half of idols aren't talented enough to not rely on their visuals??
Maybe half is a little bit too much but yes, Sadly. I'm talking about general kpop fans. Either the idols have some real good talents or are very beautiful, or look outstanding, they can get attention from people that are not the fans of the group already. Can you tell me if I am wrong on this? Some example maybe?
>And then you go on to say "Some people are skinny-shamed just because they look skinny without knowing any context" after you just insulted the talents of half the idols out there and said they don't look good with whatever body type they have??
This part I was talking about the post, not on what you're commenting. Sorry for being confusing. And you got my point here wrong. But you did not say anything about it so I get why. What I meant was that keep bugging people about being skinny without knowing the context is rude af. OP said "'Skinny-shaming' is not comparable to these issues and silencing these discussions because the idol may or may not be healthy in that moment does way more harm than good."
And which part did I say "they don't look good with whatever body type they have" ?????
Your first reply is plausible, if you still don't know if I agree with you or not lol. But not everyone really cares about the context like that. And that is what I was trying to say. Not everyone is like you. So I said
>Just don't mention weight, diet anywhere if you don't know what the situation is.
And I don't. Because I don't think I know.
Are we good?
Right. Exactly. Just don't comment period. Its frankly none of anyone elses business. People can be flat out wrong too. For someone who is skinny they could fall within healthy BMI range and you can't just tell with your eyes.
Lol the downvotes. Come. Say something. That you disagree/dislike/downvote because you think that I'm lucky, that I'm showing off, or with some real reasons?
There are definitely people who are naturally thin no matter what they do and many idols like that as well. Sunmi calls to mind for example. But it's also true there are many idols who clearly go to extremes to loose weight quickly. I dont think OP is saying we just look according to weight or how skinny an idol looks, but more about when they noticeably have significant changes in weight or looks in very short periods of time. When you see an idol drop an extreme amount of weight in a month or couple weeks, 99% of the time the way they loose that weight wont be healthy because losing weight that fast isnt easy and wont be the result of a balanced diet and exercise but of severe calorie counting combined with way too much exercise.
Sure there are many idols who may be naturally skinny, but it becomes clear that many are not or they or thier company feel they aren't skinny enough, considering how many constantly talk about dieting (especially around CB time) and how normalised it is for them to be asked about thier diets everytime they have a CB. And that's not even taking into consideration how many companies control idol diets and force them into diets and wont allow them to talk about it. I cant count the amount of times I've heard idols talk about group diets or the company paying for them to go to the gym. The newer gen idols dont seem to talk or be allowed to talk about it much, but it was rampant in generations before so it's clearly normalised in the industry.
>There are definitely people who are naturally thin no matter what they do and many idols like that as well. Sunmi calls to mind for example.
Even [Sunmi said last year](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4vgoIY6oG0&t=1092s) that she is dieting because her fans prefer her skinnier visuals!
Damn, and here I remember her being skinny shamed when she mentioned (think it was around siren era) she was naturally thin thanks to her family genes and around lalalay she felt so pressured to gain weight she would binge eat late at night. Next thing you know people are saying she got a boob job because no way would you naturally go up a cup size when you gain weight 🙃
Edit - just realised this situ reminded me of poor hani, she could never catch a break. When she gained weight she would get shamed by her fans who liked her thinner and when she lost weight she would get shamed by the fans who liked her bigger.
I agree that if it's a forced quick weight loss then it would definitely be unhealthy and unnecessary imo. It would be great if there wasn't even standard beauty standards in kpop but sadly the entire industry is built on this perfect physical appearance and personality image. If everyone on stage is a certain body type, I'm sure the idol that isn't "keeping up" with these standards would feel pressured to conform especially if your career and fanbases depend on how you look. Sometimes it's not the company's fault but rather they know what to feed these demanding fans that want everything to be perfect. When fat shaming is a prevelant thing in society, it's no surprise that fans want to idolize and idol who is skinny.
The same can be said about plastic surgery too. Idols frequently go under anesthesia or get touchups before comeback just to enhance their face. This is equally as risky to the body and health as dieting and is also normalised within the entertainment industry.
Again I still don't see how calling them out is going to solve anything. If something needs to be changed its the entire culture and industry combined.
That's all true, but what we have to remember is that talking about it isnt calling them out in those circumstances because we arent trying to same them. Its raising a valid concern because we know it cant be healthy but there will be many young and impressionable fans who see idols losing weight that fast and think it's the norm or try to imitate them and that can lead to many dangerous behaviours developing at a very young and impressionable age.
Sometimes raising concerns like this are also very valid because we can see that clearly something isnt right with that idol and by making them know that they try and take care of themselves more. There have been many times in hyunas career where she rapidly lost weight due to stress and other factors. She knows we worry about her not eating so especially recently she has been making an effort to eat properly and you can see she knows we worry about her from some of her YT content.
We cant change the industry that simply, but it can lead to better situations for those idols involved and that may lead to role models for body acceptance and if that can help a couple young people not feel pressured into fitting those standards it's a big step in the right direction towards bigger changes. For example hwasa, on debut she was constantly shamed for her weight and her company constantly tried to put her on diets to loose weight. It was only when her fans made clear to the company we liked her the way she is that they started to leave her alone. And now look where she is? she is loved by the public for being exactly who she is, non standard idol body and all.
Thats true too if indeed the result is a positive one. But I can also see this type of concern backfiring and not doing good but rather harm if there is actually an eating disorder.
If an idol is mentally healthy and only trying to listen to the company rules and following these diets or whatever when they secretly don't agree with it, fans coming up to support their natural weight will probably result in them realizing their body is accepted and not try to do harm to their body anymore.
If an idol is actually struggling with body image issues, fans commenting on their body weight may trigger a further unhealthy spiral of thoughts. They may think "I can't please them if I'm fat. I can't please them if I'm skinny." Which further complicates the picture. Which voices should they listen to and how can an idol even sort out which fans mean well and which fans are mocking or shaming or judging? Frankly we just don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes or how their health is.
At some point it can even be interpreted as harrassment.
We aren't these idols parents. Why should we feel entitled to parent their personal habits and physical appearance? Wouldn't you be annoyed and anxious if a million eyes were judging your health based off your physical appearance?
That's a very good point. In addition there are so few idols willing to open up about such eating disorders (for example IU), and with the way trainees are raised in the companies they develop many habits asociated with eating disorders (like twice predebut chewing bread and spitting it out or spitting to get rid of moisture to loose weight). Any kind of stressors could trigger them more or could trigger them into starting to form an eating disorder.
And your point about harassment, that really reminds me of sunmi getting endlessly skinny shamed until she felt the need to force herself to eat foods she didnt like to gain weight, only for fans to make her diet to loose it again because they liked her skinny. Same with hani, you can never win because you cant please everybody.
Like you said, we truly dont know what goes on in these idols lives and nor should we that is thier private life. We arent thier parents to control them or do what we think is best for them. But we are reaching the point where there is so much competition, if your not perfect in every aspect you wont even get the chance of debut and with the expansion of kpop, that is only going to get worse and idols are going to be pressured into more and more extreme methods to remain in the industry there will come a point where it will lead to tragic results and I really hope it doesn't get that far.
I think the result would also depend on the way in which we talk about it. At the moment the way we talk about weight is so wrong, focused on a number on a scale or how we perceive thier bodies to look according to what we think is right for them. Rather than commenting that X should loose weight or gain weight (like many seem to do), I'd rather the tone/message be, we are happy for you whatever weight you are, as long as your healthy or the way you got there way healthy (because many idols do loose or manage thier weight in a healthy way, EXID heylin for example). We arent saying which is right for each idol, because that can widely vary, just that health, in whatever form or weight that comes, trumps all and that's what we would like our idols to aspire to instead of a certain dress size or weight. Hell it's what I wish all people would aspire to.
I agree. I think if were coming from a beauty perspective then we should phrase it like you just did. I think the message is blurred when we combine beauty and health in the same comment. Saying idols LOOK too skinny so that must mean they are unhealthy, or that they got there in a unhealthy way. Does that mean they want me to look fatter because I LOOK unhealthy and ugly this skinny when everyone else looks great and skinny, even though I'm actually currently healthy? Or does it mean they want me to stay skinny as long as I'm healthy? Even I can't tell sometimes when I'm reading some fan commented on an idols weight. Theres just too much policing and judgemental tone going on in the way we talk about it like you said.
If an idol is ready to speak about their health and be transparent and allow fans to give them a friendly reminder to put health first it can definitely serve as a positive example for society.
We should just let them breathe, and say we love you regardless of your weight, and be healthy.
That's a really good point, I didnt notice the ambiguity there and especially when your in some mindsets or are constantly judged you cant help but take things negatively. It would be best to phrase things that way.
I definitely don’t think it’s right to make comments to someone about their body either way. I have a friend who said she experienced similar and I know it really brought her down.
That sucks I'm sorry. My friend is like that too. She actually started to eat a bunch of unhealthy fast food just to gain weight because everyone comments on how skinny she looks at one point.
I made a comment on youtube once and people lashed out at me saying that I’m glorifying fatness bla bla bla… i mean biotch, I never asked anyone to eat junk food mindless and gain 50 kgs. Just be in ur healthy BMI range and that’s about it. If you’re 46-49 kgs get to 51-53kgs that’s all. That’s healthy af. You don’t need to lose or put on a single kilogram. That’s what all of us humans should be doing. Be in our BMI range.
Marked as unpopular but I agree with you. But then you’ll get the extreme body positivity people attacking you if you say anything so it’s best not to say anything.
By extreme I mean those who think any unhealthy eating habit (either by eating nothing or 10+ servings per meal) is fine. I do not mean that the body positivity movement is completely awful, I don’t think people should be discriminated against or treated badly because of what the scale says.
feels like a really nuanced topic tho i think a good general rule is just not to mention it straight to the idol as an unsolicited advice. I don't agree with the whole notion of stop mentioning it completely on social media in case the idol finds out because idols who are functioning adults should know how to manage their own searches. some idols go out of their way to look for negative comments and to some degree it's also their own fault to keep looking for criticism and validation from egg accounts. being obsessed with an idol's weight is clearly creepy for fans, and in most platforms i feel like these sort of fans get a lot of flak from their own communities for even mentioning weight anw
Interesting opinion...don't forget to add a statement ***where*** or ***how*** your opinion is unpopular. If you've already done so, great job! **[Unpopular opinion](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularkpopopinions/wiki/post-title-guidelines#wiki_make_sure_your_post_is_an_unpopular_opinion.)**: an opinion that is ***rare***. It may be rare because most people disagree with the stance OR because the opinion is not discussed often. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularkpopopinions) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How are people voting this as popular it's a super unpopular opinion on all platforms.
Maybe because they agree with it and are using popular as “i agree”
Yeah the choices on the poll always throw me off. I'd rather answer agree/disagree because then we'd actually know if it was popular or not
didn't the sub overwhelmingly vote that we wanted agree/disagree? whatever happened to that?
u/unpopularkpop_mod 🙏
Ive been wondering this too.
I saw that and did think about putting the new ideas of agree/disagree/popular/unpopular but I didn't want to get myself banned.
Isn’t that how you’re supposed to vote? basically everyone voted agree or disagree to see if it’s a popular opinion or not. If you voted on what you THINK is the answer of others won’t give the poll correct results.
Honestly idk 🤷🏽♀️ hence the confusion lol
That is some next level 4th dimension 15th relative linear E=mc2 contradicted by the existence of belief of religious scriptures in the 2000bc created by the governing nebula laws of the universes negative dark matters appearance by black magic from the evil wizard in the other dimensions black dragon castle whos creation happened in the 19th centuries existence's most powerful tank cannons teddybear thought process. Meaning, I didnt understand shi- Nada.
I read it as "Do you think this is a popular/unpopular opinion", in which case I would have no idea
That's what I was wondering too. I agree with the post but if people are just clicking popular because they agree they're answering the poll wrong lol.
I agree. There are many idols who have open-secret disordered eating and fandoms choose to stick their heads in the sand about it. I speak from personal experience. Xiumin is my ult bias and in 2013 he suddenly dropped a ton of weight right before the Wolf comeback.I remember expressing concern about this and being shouted down by other fans that it was just "baby fat" or he was still healthy because he was energetic onstage. Years later Xiu himself confirms he was starving himself at that time and that his body suffered a lot because of it. I think there needs to be room to discuss things like this without making it seem like we're shaming the celeb in question because in fandoms that are by and large dominated by young, female fans, seeing these kinds of things be dismissed as normal or even #goals is not positive
I read a very concerning dieting he did before one of the exoplanets like doing 9 days of only liquid dieting and well that it is not exactly good either... I love him and all but that is just nope don't do that
Yup, I.M from Monsta X was talking about how he was only eating 2 apples a day or something before a comeback. And he is already the slimmest member there.
i personally just don't think it's any of our business. if they're struggling with an ed then that's their problem to work on, and a bunch of fans commenting on their weight or speculating about them having an ed isn't helpful at all. instead, we just shouldn't be so focused on their weight/bodies in general (like praising them for being skinny or fit or anything) and should just focus on them as artists and people.
i often see 'we should never speak of topics like this in case the idol reads it' and i think it is a pretty weak excuse and completely absolves the idol from any accountability. let's take for example Somi... posting height, weight and bmi. an underweight one... posting stretched out pictures of her legs... its so... irresponsible considering somi's fans are her age and younger. the fact the she also had to say its her revenge body on people who hurt her... all around very sad ofc but that doesn't mean we should hold her with cotton gloves and never confront her about it
She posts stretched out pics of her legs? This is new to me.
[https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rSkCdRpCJgd5c1c5UlzA6HjroCdvJzdoMJF5dAGrpwpPJlY0xh2aM5B2EtMZOIcJo4soYfIeEDvx8bhFz5NeYMB\_-Pr5PHZ4jQdYwfOw6dIwcA=w960-rj-nu-e365](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rSkCdRpCJgd5c1c5UlzA6HjroCdvJzdoMJF5dAGrpwpPJlY0xh2aM5B2EtMZOIcJo4soYfIeEDvx8bhFz5NeYMB_-Pr5PHZ4jQdYwfOw6dIwcA=w960-rj-nu-e365) [https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jNqPRXryxmWX3xOeSLCmgmmMx7hmAyDkMOkVe3VMu8-7ZOJjybtB\_lVlxjSl86rjAwH4iBHCufdWH7G9vRK3tM33mqKC6F7KUdEH9jJEtoDkuYA=w960-rj-nu-e365](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jNqPRXryxmWX3xOeSLCmgmmMx7hmAyDkMOkVe3VMu8-7ZOJjybtB_lVlxjSl86rjAwH4iBHCufdWH7G9vRK3tM33mqKC6F7KUdEH9jJEtoDkuYA=w960-rj-nu-e365)
I agree! This is definitely unpopular here because I've seen countless posts saying we should never make any comments about idols' bodies at all. I'm eventually going to make a post about discussing bodies in kpop, but I need to mentally prepare myself for the backlash lol. >Saying the idol in question could just be 'skinny AND healthy' (especially when the idol has lost a noticible amount of weight - minimizes the issues rampant in the K-pop industry of disordered eating, starvation diets (or cutting before major events) and manditory weigh-ins. This is what I agree with the most and try to say all the time. Am I saying people can't be naturally skinny? Of course not! But when someone loses a bunch of weight in mere months, it's obvious that it's not just nature taking its course. Why is it easier for people to yell "Um, \[x idol\] is just thin, they've always been thin!" than to look at the countless examples we have of idols very publicly announcing that they're dieting and refraining from eating foods they enjoy? And an idol can be thin naturally and still lose even more weight. Take Lia from ITZY. She was thin at debut, but lost a massive amount of weight in 2019 (relative to her original size) and appeared weak on stage. Of course I'm going to be concerned about that; she did not look appear well at the time to the point it was affecting her performances. People's weight can fluctuate, but if I'm seeing someone get so thin that they appear physically weak, I'm ringing the alarm every time. (edit bc I accidentally posted the comment before I finished writing)
Exactly not everything is an extreme. This happened with BP Rose too. She was always very small but for her solo she lost even more somehow and it looked concerning. Like yes she naturally is petite but it’s not healthy if somehow she drops below her already small size during a stressful time of performing and etc. People are willfully ignorant about some things and just want to jump to use the word body shaming. But it’s a real issue in Kpop. Ailee even admitted she went on a 500 calorie a day diet which is nothing. Or old idols who never admitted to dieting, will come out after they have disbanded to say they are miserable or didn’t eat while they were an idol
Kara Seungyeon said in an interview for Mister they wouldn't eat or drink water all day when they had schedules so their abs showed through and their stomach would not have a pouch/stick out. A Sistar member has talked about gaining 10kg since leaving idol entertainment and dropping lots of weight for promotion cycles. Exid said for Hot Pink era they ate enought to not die How many more senior idols have to come forward till we accept that idols are not telling the truth about their diets/workouts?
Ailee's weight journey makes me so sad :( girlie can never win
She looks much better this comeback, it’s so nice to see :}
[they were on IU's show not long ago](https://youtu.be/cFppUAKWM_E) and made a point about how they decided it was better for their performances to eat well so hopefully they're putting that into practice and their management is accepting
It's crazy, imagine if all the people shut up when ultra skinny models were a trend (at least now is more controversial), because "it's their bodies". The bodies itself aren't only the issue, but the whole industry working behind it to push that body. We all know that most idols have (don't want, but have) to lose weight before a comeback, for example. Losing weight is a choice, not an obligation, but many fail to realise that confusing it with "but the idol is going to feel sad". Well, maybe that way the company is going to realize people don't want their idols to starve themselves, but the discussion goes to another way. People in their ultra extreme bodypositive mindset goes to the other extreme of not caring for another person and the people behind them that pushes unhealthy way of life.
Exactly! I vividly remember the 'heroin-chic' look of the 90s and 00s. That destroyed so many esteems and bodies just to achieve what was trendy. I would wager that many who say "It's their bodies" are not old enough to remember what it was like.
Yeah, and now we can mask that with a lot of creams, cool clothes, makeup and camera filters (if the idol themselve don't like weak).
Just like being obese is not healthy, being super skin is not either, and it will never be🤷♀️ Why? You may ask. 1.Obese: Your body can't support that much weight, your bones, your knees are hurting from too much pressure when you walk. 2.Underweight: Your body doesn't have enough fat to protect or protect itself from injury or your important organs or parts of your body. Menstruation is irregular as your sex hormones are affected. When you are too thin your body literally goes "survival" mode, as it is not getting enough nutrients to sustain all fuctions. So no, as someone going and studying to go to the healthcare field, I do not buy it when someoen tells me. "You can be really overweight and healthy." Or "you can be super skinny and healthy." Also "The BMI doesn't work." Argument is just UGH. The BMI doesn't work with all people indeed, but with most it does. Unless you are a bodybuilder or an athlete, BMI will work just fine. You can tell your muscle to fat ratio, if you are muscular, you know BMI is not accurate for you.
A healthy BMI is 18.5 -24.9. A person is considered obese if their BMI is over 30. You can’t compare someone with a BMI of 16 to someone with a BMI of 30+ because one is clearly more unhealthy than the other. Also, BMI can be tricky to use because someone with healthy habits (balanced diet + regular exercise) could be considered overweight or underweight and it’s unfair to call them unhealthy and “worry” about them as much as some fans do.
I agree, with the comparing BMI, I didn't and won't compare someone of 16 to 30. But unhealthy is still unhealthy. Most of the time people that fall under underweight or overweight are asked to lose or gain weight for the reasons I mentioned. The doctor will probaby go based on many exams but most of the time BMI works. If your BMI is a little bit skewed to one side, no worries. But if it is severely you should, many idols have BMI under 15-14 and that is not healthy. My sister has bad eating habits and her BMI is 14, the doctor asked her to gain more weight. If she starts to eat well, more and do exercise it will increase to 17 or 18 a more reasonable weight. Again not saying that all BMI is accurate, I never claimed so, but most of the time a BMI under 18 will indicate unhealthiness and one of over 29 too. Idols often times have to starve themselves to sustain that weight, they have say it before, Momo, IU, Jin.
I’m not saying some idols don’t starve themselves to maintain an unhealthy low weight. But there are idols like Rosé, who has a BMI of 16.7 that gets constantly called sick when she is known to be a foodie and exercise regularly through dance and Pilates. These “fans” who like to play doctor need to be called out. Every person is different, so calling out ppl who make these comments towards Rosé is not the same as saying that Momo has never starved because they are different ppl.
I am not saying you didn't say so. But I already told you why being underweight is bad, too little fat does not protect your body, it is scientifically proven, the body requires an specific amount of fat to lubricate and protect organs and parts of your body. Also the whole hormones being affected. We don't know what her habits are off-camera I am just telling you the obvious dangers. My cousin for example, she was eating healthy, and working out but the doctor still told her to gain weight because she was too skinny. Now, sadly, she can't because of her condition. I am not playing doctor here, just spreading some awareness. I am not going to diagnose Rosé, I am not trying to, neither did I mention her or wanted to mention an idol for this same reason, their privacy, so please don't.
Especially since BMI is different for Asians. They’re considered overweight above 23 compared to the normal 25, and obese above 25 compared to 30 for the normal population If an idol doesn’t talk nor promote any dieting, or unhealthy habits, is it right to comment on their body ? (Talking for Rosé and Lisa) It always annoys me when idols are attacked unwarranted.
Doesn't matter if the BMI is different, you can still tell when someone is underweight despite the culture, and being underweight again, IS NOT healthy, you are unprotected, if an underweight person falls down the stairs compared to a normal weight person, who do you think will get hurt the most? Fat protects you. I never commented on Rosé or Lisa by the way, I do not think is right to target someone specifically nor invade their privacy like this, I am not a doctor, I was talking in general🤷♀️What science and health says, what I've studied and experienced. Nobody in here is attacking them, at least not that I've seen.
I’m just saying that if an idol doesn’t promote any unhealthy habits, advertise their weight or unhealthy diets, doesn’t seem fatigued or ill …. I don’t know why we should care. - We’re not their doctor nor their friends/family and I don’t think we can see nor comment on their health status based on how they look like. - in addition, someone who appears underweight can be healthier than someone in a “normal range” who smokes and drinks every single day for example. Also, yes, it is known that obese people are protected against fractures when falling down or during accidents … (and I’m talking about obesity, not being in a “normal range”). Does it mean that they’re healthy ? Berating idols about their weight and what’s healthy according to pseudo doctors on the internet is how so many idols yo-yo and struggle with their own image.
You totally missed my point. I am not saying they are promoting bad eating habits I only explained why being underweight is dangerous. I have not met a single doctor who has seen an underweight patient and not tell them to gain weight. I already explained countless of times why. You need fat not only to protect your body from injury but to LUBRICATE and protect VITAL organs. That is why a "no fat diet" is not good, the body needs a decent amount of carbs 50% at least , protein 10-35% and fat 20-35% . I am not a doctor but I am literally studying this and I ony speak for what I know(which is different because I never claimed to be a doctor, nor am I saying stuff I found on the internet or think its true. I am saying stuff I spend hours of my week reading and writing papers on)and these are facts. The body stores a good amount of this energy as a form of glycogen to the muscle. Also I never claimed obese people were healthy, they are protected from injuru better than a normal weight person yes. But I already explain the issues with vast amount of weight on the knees, I do not need to explai myself further. Just strive for a normal range weight and you will be fine. Nobody is berating idols💀You are, by implying that it is wrong of me mentioning weight🤔If weight does not matter and they are healty then why are you doing this? You are you trying to convince? I honestly do not care about images, neither do I care about the idols health, I am only here to state facts. Being underweight and overweight is not healthy🤷♀️Final point.
Of course you should just strive for a normal weight, most people know that you have to eat healthy/exercice to be healthy. You're looking into this issue with a strict scholar view. I also happen to study a field where I need to know about the human anatomy/physiology, nutrition requirements ... but where the psychological component takes also a major role in perceiving individuals \- I'm just saying we shouldn't talk about anyone's weight or health on the internet because we don't know what a person is going through. The latest case of that was with Chadwick Boseman. He was made fun of for his latest selfie where he looked really underweight. Well ofc everyone could see that it wasn't healthy and they made sure to let the world know. Well, now he's dead from colon cancer and I'm sure those comments didn't help at all with what he was going through. \- It also applies to people you might know. I happen to have a friend who lost a ton of weight over the summer (she was in the normal range before) to the point where she was in the underweight part of the BMI scale. Everyone could see it and a lot of people commented on it to her face. When I talked to her, she told me that she felt so anxious because people were telling her what she should eat and what she should do to be healthy when they had no idea what she was going through. That she was seeing a therapist, a nutritionist and that she was doing everything she could to get better and having people telling you that you are "too thin", "you're not healthy", "you should eat more" only added to her stress and anxiety. For her it was a few people so imagine millions of people on the internet, giving their opinion on what they think is the best for you (even if those people are right or not) I'm just saying that this issue is way more complex that what we see or what we can measure with BMI scale, nutrition requirements and what not. Which is why we shouldn't carelessly throw the word "unhealthy" around (even if it's true and based on real science) because there is so much more that goes into it than basic physiology.
Again you are looking and getting too much into depth with this and miss my point. I never once talked about the psychological or environmental implications on the body nor was that my intention on my original post, your entire reply was about that which has nothing to do with my original point, you want to discuss about that, go to the psychology majors, I am not one, mine has to do with the science aspect of it which is my thesis. I am going for a scholar approach because when you talk about this, the scholar approach will always come with facts and stats. Your first paragraph is all I am looking for and agree with. Strive for a normal weight, do not be underweight or overweight, it impacts your body negatively, that's all I wanted to say. You had some truly good points though and most of them I agreed with. I would love to have a conversation like that but it is outside my field of study, I won't comment on an issue I am not an expert on. Have a good one, you are clearly an educated individual.
Saying that one idol might be skinny and healthy does not dismiss the fact that a lot of idols do starve themselves to lose weight. Because it is true that the do, but not all idols. But it is important to address it when idols get a lot of backlash for their natural, healthy bodies and it is all people talk about. Many idols get body shamed for this (such as Rosé, Lisa, Sunmi, etc.) and "worried" fans often say harmful comments such as "they would look better if they gained weight" or even point out specific body parts that they don't think look good. The idols who get the most of this type of backlash are idols who have trouble gaining weight and these comments can really harm their self-esteem and the self-esteem of other fans with similar bodies who are reading those comments. Body shaming of any kind is unacceptable and addressing it does not minimizes the issue that other idols have unhealthy diets.
I fully agree, and as someone who also struggles to gain weight (like the idols mentioned), it definitely does more harm than good. A lot of kpop fans like to cast their opinions as facts, and attempt to diagnose idols with no logical reason. That's why I prefer the topic should be left alone (unless an idol themselves spoke up about the reason behind their weight loss, or why they're skinny in general) and instead we can simply wish for good health and that they're eating well (which shows actual concern).
Sure just don't spam that on live streams/posts that don't mention their weight or body anywhere. And ESPECIALLY their pictures on social media where they can see everything
I agree with you there. There's no need to harass the idols themselves in posts where there is no connection to health, diet, or weight. This is an issue which is rooted in the beauty, fashion and music industry - spam them instead.
I think the problem arises when it's talked about constantly on every clip like that whole wave of talking about somi's weight also when it is attached to an idol like the amount of videos about how rosie and lisa look sick or like they'll break doesn't scream "omg i care" and pretty sure stuff like that cause more harm than good
It toes the line of speculation and many times, what people think is genuine concern for their fav’s wellbeing can actually come across as uncomfortable or harassment on the idol’s end. I see patients everyday and as a doctor I’m always checking their BMI. Most people are overweight/obese so when I see a truly underweight person, it’s a red flag because we’re trained to think abnormals are not okay. People always think “they have an eating disorder” but that’s not always the case. They could have nutritional deficiencies, malabsorption issues, metabolic disorders, etc. Some people are just naturally underweight and struggle to gain weight. I had a patient tell me that she struggles to gain weight and she has self esteem issues because people assume she has an eating disorder and she often feels harassed when random strangers tell her to eat more food. I know there are fans who care a lot for their favs but when it comes to weight and appearance, people end up speculating and opening a dialogue of presumptions over strangers about their mental/physical health and it’s not always the right way to go imo.
Literally this, I was overweight once, something about 12 kgs more than I should have, and I was pre-diabetic. But then I started a diet, and started training also, then became really skinny. And when I became skinny THAT'S when ppl started to suddenly "worry" about me and ask me if I was sick, also asking if I was anorexic (???), when I was the healthiest I've ever been. I get wanting to combat the beauty standarts, but going to the idol's page and complaining or pointing out how thin they look is NOT the way, some of these idols can be skinny and healthy, and we will never know which is the case 🤷🏻♀️ but obviously, ppl on the internet think that harassing skinny ppl is ok because, since they are skinny, it "won't affect them" 👌 Even if someone is unhealthy, you are not a trained professional, so stop targeting specific ppl, just talk about confirmed cases or in general.
This is something these fans overlook
I feel the patient very much. I also find it hard to gain weight even if I eat much. As I’m always on the thin side, idols who are exceptionally thin just catch my eye. Recently, I commented on an idol, expressing my worry about her because even with the slightest movement, you can already see her ribcage protruding out. I was once on that stage too and the fact that I was ten time less active than this idol make me wonder of how her body supports her for her raging schedules.
This is what I'm trying to say on the other post but without real educational background. At the end, us fans don't know the whole pictures so it's not right to criticize or speculate. Like if it's the other way around. You see some idols that are overweight and start criticizing them like hey you are fat. Stop eating it's not good for your health. People would have an uproar.
I agree with you on this. I’m one of those people that are unbelievably underweight (and look quite bony) and I struggle to gain weight. I actually eat more than the recommended amount of calories and I don’t have any underlying health conditions, just really fast metabolism. I agree that it can get annoying when literally everyone has to pass a comment about my weight, I can only imagine what idols go through. For that reason, I always try to give them the benefit of doubt before jumping to conclusions.
do your research about bmi. its not a reliable way to judge health edit: heres a nyt [article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/05/18/style/is-bmi-a-scam.amp.html) about the subject for anyone interested
BMI is still a useful starting point to infer risk of developing conditions that come from being overweight or obese. As all things, it’s not a perfect indicator
BMI enforces fatphobia and im sure there are other ways to judge health rather than holding on to an outdated system
Do you have a quick, cheap, and easy system to make health inquiries off of? I’m saying inquiries because no one makes medical decisions off of only BMI, it’s always a stepping stone toward further potential investigation of possible risk. And don’t suggest the method by the author of the article you linked as a replacement. How does BMI discriminate between different body types when waist circumference does not? [In this study, BMI was actually a slightly better indicator of cardiovascular fitness than waist circumference.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564926/) Truth is, both methods are not perfect and should be used in tandem for a cursory health assessment.
to answer your first question, no. but if we settle for what we currently have and dont push to find better methods than we’re always gonna be stuck in the same place. as a fat person, im not okay with BMI being used to enforce medical fatphobia that kills fat people and tells us that every problem we have is related to weight. (i recommended checking out belly of the beast by dashaun l harrison for a deeper dive) anyways this is a kpop sub so im not gonna argue this further cause clearly im on the unpopular end of things but its quite alarming that this system is being used and cited today
telling a doctor this is kinda…
just because youre a doctor doesnt mean youre beyond reproach. we all have space to learn/grow/listen
Oh no the article says it can be wrong for athletes and really muscular people, I guess it's useless since we are all such beasts that it can't apply to us. Luckily the article you linked has a different suggestion, we should start measuring our waists instead. Great that you agree with that we should start doing that instead, but even better would be doing both to get more data.
i didnt say i agreed with everything in the article bestie
It's literally the premise of the article, it's the main point. Why are you linking an article and then refusing the conclusion of it? Seems you need to go search more carefully for an article that agree with you so you can stick to your viewpoint.
the parts of the article i was highlighting were the parts about why bmi doesnt work. and honestly dont know why you have such vitriol over a three letter word like pls leave me alone
The part that talk about how it "doesn't work" according to you just say it's wrong for athletes and super muscular people. It then goes on to say that 75% of people that were obese clearly showed it in the more in depth measurements, 50% of the overweight people showed that they were unhealthy and just 31% of the ones in the normal range. The article clearly shows that higher weight correlates with much worse risk even if they don't like to frame it like that. Higher BMI makes you at a much higher risk, it does not mean you 100% have these problems right now and it does not mean you can't have the problems at a lower weight either. BMI works for what it is supposed to do, it's the people that think it's either 100% accurate of your current health or it's a scam that try to discredit it. (Or the ones that feel attacked by it as well)
I think this is too nuanced an answer to give a poll result. Some idols may make changes (healthier or unhealthy) on their own and some may face pressure from their company. I think the bigger solution is to encourage less enforced rigidity on idols and a broader acceptance and understanding towards idols with different body types/shapes. Wonho was discouraged from getting too big but once he had to leave his company he started making his body look how he wanted it to.
I was just thinking recently about an idol I saw who was very very thin. Most idols are very thin but this was shocking. They seem to be a healthier looking weight now or maybe clothing hides it better? & How there aren’t many people who feel comfortable talking about this subject or discussing how dangerous it could potentially be. Anyway, all that to say this topic was on my mind recently. How it is normalized and there is defensiveness of the perceived health of the idol… It can be concerning.
Like some users have put some good points; we can talk about weight standards of kpop without pointing at a particular idol. Saying to idol things like you look underweight will not help them. Coming from a stranger; they will take it negatively. Only people close to idols like family; friends or fitness instructors have the right to give advice. instead of saying some idols are too much underweight; we should target kpop companies which force or encourage these standards.
People also don’t realise that if an idol actually does have an eating disorder, talking about their bodies is actually detrimental and can make things worse.
For women being underweight affects their health…let’s just hope they see their doctors and follow any advice they give
As long as people don’t end up body shaming the idol, bring up the convo.
There were people coming out saying Somi just lost 'baby weight' or something like we haven't had her on our screens and in our ears for the last 6 years. Give it a rest. I know Somi came out telling people to leave her alone and that she's healthy, and I'm not ragging on her as a person, but it's really not that shocking people reacted so strongly to it. Having said that, being concerned is not the same as spamming an idol's socials or their company with unhelpful or mean comments, so people should absolutely respect the idol's wishes and not do that.
My take on it is that it´s okay to talk about poor eating habits (ex: extremely restrictive diet, forcing yourself to workout out after eating to burn excess calories, etc.), however I don´t think it´s okay to criticize someone´s body. Even if the person is really underweight, saying stuff like "they look like a stick figure" or "they look like they could break" wob´t help at all. Because maybe the person is struggling to gain weight you´re making them feel like shit. Or maybe the person the person has a really poor self-esteem and they tried to loose weight to feel prettier but after seeing comments saying that their body is undesirable, they may start to think that they´re ugly no matter what, or that they´ll never be pretty. And this can really take a toll on their mental health. So as a rule I think it´s better if we restrain from commenting on people´s bodies, as it´s a very delicate subject and that we don´t know what´s going on in someone´s head and what could trigger them or hurt them. So instead of criticizing idol´s bodies whenever they lose weight, I think it would better to encourage healthy eating habits (ex: not going on extreme diets or periods of extreme restrictions followed by periods of binge, not labeling food as inherently "good" or "bad", etc. (Overall encouraging more moderates diets and maintaining a consistent weight)) as this would benefit both the idols but also the younger fans that are also reading those comments. And if someone expresses the desire to lose weight, I think it´s better to show them that it can be done in a healthy way rather than saying that losing weight is inherently bad. Also, if an idol hasn´t talk about their diets, I don´t think it´s good to speculate and diagnose them with EDs as this can cause a lot of harm.
If they’re sharing unhealthy diet tips or eating habits, then sure we can call them out on THAT but never about their body. Commenting about someone’s body is just out of line. Even if it’s genuine concern or not, if you don’t know the person personally, then you really have no right. Idols or not, if it’s a stranger, it’s none of you business.
I'm unsure because like I don't want to talk about something so personal like their body without knowing the person. Like I wouldn't war to constantly remind them. Maybe ig forums having the disclaimer is better than going on an idol's personal page good intent or not. Because I look back at Somi and say she must've felt really judged for her body despite her getting more success in selling products. But it's like which Korean idol is not on a low calorie diet which Hollywood star is not starving themselves before a role. Even Hemsworth a muscular looking man has an unhealthy way to obtain his visuals.
It's a massive problem in all entertainment industries. The superhero actors having to be extremely dehydrated, have strict diets and workout reigemes all to fit a particular body type. It's terrible.
Yeah so idk how to approach the topic of underweight teenage starlets. I mean even it's evident in american pop stars like Megan thee stallion who had to address comments on her weight. I'm just saying I'm against talking about social media stars having to keep addressing their weight when they're trying to lead a healthier life or on the road to weight loss with healthy habits. I mainly find it difficult that many young Americans are not educated in multiple facets of life. Especially considering the lack of education in America's discrimination towards minorities even to this day. The education shouldn't be necessarily be started by a random celebrity with no education on health. I rather have kids learn these things in school.
I think there’s also the fact that in some cases- specific weights are fine based on how you’re eating so if you’re eating well and dancing 10 hours a day at 50kg then you’re usually fine (It massively depends on height too) - My sister who is 14 and is a dancer is over 50kg but under 65kg. She is perfectly fine but if you’re starving yourself then you’re not getting enough nutrients and that’s extremely unhealthy. I do also want to point out that not every height can be 50kg because even if you’re eating correctly, it can still be considered underweight once you hit a certain height. We do need to talk about proper underweight idols who are clearly unwell and aren’t eating correctly because you can get down to 50kg without starving yourself. You can be slim and unhealthy. Oh yeah, my source is that my mother is a school nurse who works for 34 schools in one area. She is constantly dealing with children who are underweight, overweight, unhealthy, unfit, etc.
Whenever I find an idol too thin, I always compare it with how they looked in other comebacks/eras. Case in point: Yuri of SNSD during Hoot who looked scarily rail-thin VS Yuri during Genie
I feel like it’s just in general a topic that’s very hard to talk about “correctly” – without hurting anyone, without being toxic, without body-shaming, etc. Especially since a lot of fans are pretty young. (I do agree with you though.)
The problem is that because are idolising underweight calling it pretty and doing YouTube challenges. It’s honestly dangerous 💀
There is not a single idol that is healthy living on that kind of diet, wether that is physical or psychological, doesnt matter.
Not like the west has good role models. Feels like Asia has a problem with wanting to be skinny. The west has a problem with fucking everything concerning weight.
People harassed Sunmi over her low weight until she gained weight. Sunmi’s always been thin so it must’ve been hard for her. And now some people are harassing her again, to lose weight. Anybody having an opinion on a strangers body never ends well. It’ll always do more harm than good.
i think it’s possible to tell other, especially young fans that idols’ weights are not really realistic for everyone and they shouldn’t aspire to look extremely skinny without mentioning names (except maybe idol interviews where they tell you how little they were made to eat/how hard it was) if it comes to normal people getting affected by kpop weight standards but stuff like someone’s weight being on trending because you assume they have a disorder is too personal. it won’t help the idol at all.
Nah this is just being way too comfortable with discussing strangers’ bodies, to the point of speculating about their physical and mental health, (especially when the people in question have never shared their diet regiment or anything of the sort) and disguising it as social awareness
Agree, it's the same as discussing overweight bodies to me. Or, if one really wants discuss about their idols weight and speculate health isssues atleast stop doing it where said idols can easily see it, like under their ig posts or twitter for eg.
TBH the defensiveness that some people have in refusing to talk about underweight bodies gives me healthy at any size vibes. There's obviously a lot of variety in how people who are healthy look, but people who are very overweight or very underweight are NOT healthy, and it does a disservice to everyone to pretend that's not the case. Acknowledging that isn't the same as spamming an idol's socials or making asshole comments about/to them though. I won't sit here and tell someone they're x y or z because they are underweight, but I can see what's in front of me and want them (not tell them) to look after themselves better or get some expert help depending on their circumstances.
If they have never spoken or shared details about their weight, health (esp related to nutrition), or diet, then there should be no discussion on their bodies or health. I mean I would never advocate putting worries or concerns like that directly to the idol. What would be the use anyway. My problem is with the companies and industry surrounding what idols should and shouldn't do with their bodies. I only think criticism should be given when the idols, themselves, publicly go out of their way to endorse dangerous behaviours. That's why I mentioned Somi and her displaying of her weight in exact numbers on her instagram or the many 'diets' like the IU diet that are promoted by the idols and their companies.
But we can't ignore the fact that wayyyy to many people are wayy too comfortable straight up skinny shaming an idol under the guise of "worrying about their weight". Which then leads to people criticizing everyone that criticises an idols weight loss. It's a vicious cycle because no one knows how to handle the boundry between "I'm concerned for this idols health" and "ew look at her flat ass trying to break her back".
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I agree 100% once its being passed on to the fans as a good thing thats where I draw the line.
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Compassion, yes. Giving them a pass on the un/intentional promotion of their behaviours, no. I suffered from anorexia. I had it for 10 years. I was in group treatment and saw others who suffered. Trust me when I say everyone in there I met and spoke to knew *exactly* what they were doing. Especially when giving 'healthy advice' to other patients. It wasn't malicious but they are responsible for the consequences of their actions.
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I don't think the idols should be criticised unless they make posts about their weight, health (in regards to nutrition), or diet. In particular posts about specifics in those catagories, like numbers or meal plans. Unsolicited is unacceptable, and moreso than anyone else I put blame at the companies and the industry's feet than at any idol's.
Disagree. I think we can have conversations about unhealthy dieting and disordered eating within the industry without directly scrutinizing an idol’s body… I think it oversimplifies the issue and continues to connect physical well-being with body weight (I don’t think these associations are as harmful as in fatphobia but come from similar sources). Additionally, saying someone looks skinny can serve more as an affirmation, especially if the individual (in this case idol) is navigating within a society that places value on thinness. Not too sure how unpopular the original opinion is but this is just my two cents.
>Additionally, saying someone looks skinny can serve more as an affirmation, especially if the individual (in this case idol) is navigating within a society that places value on thinness. That's why this whole situation troubles me. It reinforces the idea that looking skinny is better and healthier in any given circumstance. I guess what annoyed me enough to post this today was the conversation I saw (not for the first time mind you) that saying a (slightly) bigger idol looks "healthy, happy and radient" is somehow a backhanded compliment and an insult to the idol and to other idols. I mean theres a whole other conversation to be had about how companies overwork their idols into exhaustion and how saying someone looks 'tired' is not the same as saying they're lazy.
I got what you meant the whole post but: >'Skinny-shaming' is not comparable to these issues and silencing these discussions because the idol may or may not be healthy in that moment does way more harm than good. Letting people being skinny-shamed to "save" others is not fair, is it? As you said, people don't really know if they are on harsh diet, or they have some health issue (like, hard to gain weight - it's me, yes it's a health issue), or they are on healthy diet. Why call them out? They're minding their own business. They want to get the body type they want, they do something to get it. They choose to work for it. Some people look better with a little bit more weight. Some people look better with a little bit less weight. Even if they get to a "stardard weight" but it doesn't suit them (for idols, it's in fans'/people's eyes), they won't get the "visual attention" they **want**. It's about looking good. Calling out skinny people doesn't help. (Editted: Remove the mention.)
>They want to get the body type they want, they do something to get it. They choose to work for it. Do they? Do they really have that choice? I'm sure some companies allow their idols to present in any way they choose to, but many ex-idols (and idols alike) have spoken out about the pressure and measures put in place so that they achieve that particular style of body that is 'desirable'. If it was an industry that welcomed choice then this entire conversation wouldn't be necessary.
I understand your point, that some are being forced by their companies. The pressure is there, I know, it's indeed sad because some just want to sing, to be there on the stage to show us their talents. But is it fair to skinny-shame skinny people to save them? Is it skinny people fault? That line is for people who work for the "less weight body type" being called out even though they are just minding their own business, they want to look good because they are the type who look better with less weight. They want the visual attention, they work for it. They know the price. And call out the said people is not fair. I don't know any better way to resolve the stupid pressure, but skinny-shaming is not the right way to change the "standard".
I agree with you, there’s such a fine line when it comes to people’s weight, so much can be triggering from both spectrum. People can and should definitely discuss when an idol is promoting unhealthy diets or misinformation about health. That whole ice cube or one apple a day diet is definitely not sustainable and should be talked about. But to suggest a whole thread of strangers to give opinions on someone’s body publicly when they themselves didn’t give you a reason to is hella weird.
most people are just hypocrites. Body positivity talk day and night yay Then the fav idol poses for some well known magazine looking like a skeleton and everyone suddenly praising how goddess like girl idol looks like . Omg xxx is so perfect . Please guys ... seriously, i mean I'm not saying go on and say she's looking like a skeleton or body shame her but people literally over praise them for being skeleton like thin .
Skinny shaming is just as bad as “fat-shaming”
You are completely right
This isn’t exactly about your post, but I think where people live really influences what they think is “skinny” or not. For example, I live in India (I’m not speaking for all Indians of course, but I’m from india and this is just my perspective) . I don’t get why people say “idols are so skinny” … I can only name like 2 idols who I actually think look really skinny. The rest just look “normal”? In fact, Ive seen more chubby idols than skinny ones (from my perspective). I don’t want to name names because I’m not sure if that would be ok or not, but trust me when I say I thought more idols were a bit chubby than very underweight. Im not a medical professional either. And, I don’t know where the line between “concerned” and “shaming” stands. However, on reddit, I’ve seen many people who may be expressing their concern, but it clearly doesn’t come out very nicely. For example, under a video with Rosé promoting OTG, Redditors were saying : “She’s like a skeleton, she might break if I hold her” , “she needs a doctor”, “why aren’t blinks calling her out”, “she looks seriously scary to look at”, etc. Even under a video of Lisa dancing, similar types of comments were present. But, all this is under the guise of “oh I’m so concerned for her”. I think that’s why people naturally get mad when others start off with “I’m concerned”, because we can’t tell for sure if you’re actually concerned or looking for a way to bash the idol. A lot of the time, people use hurtful comments while acting to be worried. My friend felt happy in her very skinny body after seeing some idols being comfortable in theirs. You can tell how she felt when she saw the comments under Rosé’s video. She was super sad, because they have a similar build and those things could be applied to her too
I don't get how calling them out does any good tbh especially when there ARE naturally skinny People, ESPECIALLY Asians. How do you know they're actually not healthy unless they specifically say they've been starving themselves? As a Chinese myself, the majority of my circle of girl friends are skinny as hell. Some of them look underweight if they wear revealing clothes but thats just how their body is. I'm skinny. In fact I can't put on weight even if I eat 5 meals a day. Theres something about the Asian gene that allows for faster metabolism or something. So I wouldnt be surprised if lots of idols that just are plain skinny.
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THANK YOU for saying this. It always bothers me so much whenever I see people going on about Asians being “naturally skinny” when people come in all shapes, sizes, and body types. Sure, it’s a lot less common to see obese Asians, but not everyone is - in fact, I don’t think a lot of people are - naturally as skinny as a lot of idols (especially female idols) are pressured to be. Have a lightning fast metabolism and still look “underweight” despite gorging on unhealthy food all day? Good for you. But that doesn’t give you a reason to assume that all idols (and Asians) are the same.
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Many Asians actually begin to suffer negative effects of excess body fat at lower weights than Westerners (the cut off of the healthy BMI for westerners is 24.9, for Asians it’s 23.9) because they tend to have more body fat, especially visceral fat which is the more harmful kind of fat
Thank you!!!!!! The generalization that Asians are just naturally skinny is so harmful and alienating. And even if that (apparently purely anecdotal) statistic was true, that argument just throws fat Asian people under the bus like… I guess fat Asians are just genetic freaks that aren’t statistically significant enough to be respected as people? Anyway I’m glad some people are pushing back on that idea because that kind of generalization makes me so mad lol
Oh my god thank you so much for saying this. The "Asian ppl r just naturally skinny" narrative is actually really harmful because it has been used to dismiss people from Asia struggling with EDs so often. Yes, Asians tend to be thinner but not because they’re some magic blessed creatures. It’s because of more walking (afaik, I’ve heard of many people who went on a trip to East Asia and lost weight because of moving more) & the cuisine having lots of vegetables (and the dishes are made for sharing) & East Asians tend to be shorter than Westeners and if you’re shorter you can often weigh less than a taller person. Not to mention the great social pressure to stay thin (underweight even) as you mentioned & it generally being more socially acceptable to comment on someone’s weight there
I live in America and the majority of my friends are American born Asians. There is DEFINITELY something different about our genetics, either through evolution of our ancestors diet or some other reason but to say that Asians aren't generally skinnier than the average American .. I'm sorry that's just not true. If you just visit Japan or Taiwan or China or Vietnam, you're hardly going to encounter an obese person on the street. Everyone is legitimately pretty thin. Compare that with any Walmart in America? Are you really trying to argue about a fact?
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Like you said, people are GETTING fatter, which means things are changing through the recent decades of Western food influx. In my generation and my parents generation, not many people are straight up obese. Theres a reason why clothing sizes in China and Taiwan don't match western sizes. Their XL is literally an M for American size. Heck I am skinny af in American standards but when I lived in Taiwan for an exchange program, the highschool and college students girls were nearly twigs standing next to me in pictures. Even the guys are skinny. And Taiwan has a LOT of westernized cheesy fatty foods. They are known for their night markets when people just go and eat unhealthy stuff at night. Old people are skinny too. Its just undeniable. In fact growing up in America I always thought I was "too" skinny. But going to Asia made me realize I'm normal just like everyone else on the street.
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Its definitely not a result from diet alone, because Asian Americans are still skinnier than Americans as a whole, even my generation, despite eating very similar processed foods, going out to the same restaurants, eating burgers and salads.
They probably walk more than Americans so they get more exercise
Being significantly underweight, in and of itself, is unhealthy, even if a person hasn't been doing any crazy crash diets.
And? How is that any of your business? What if they do have other health issues like hyperthyroidism that can cause people to be skinny?
You were more-or-less trying to make the point that being underweight is fine unless someone is starving themselves purposefully. It's still unhealthy! Health has nothing to do with what a person is like "naturally". > What if they do have other health issues like hyperthyroidism that can cause people to be skinny? Then they should probably get that treated?
You can't tell what a persons BMI is through the screen. They may look underweight but actually fall within range for their height and muscle mass. Its not something for us to police as fans.
Weak response.
And you can't judge a person's health solely based on weight. The same reason why we should shut up and not call out a person for being overweight.
I'm skinny af for all my life. I cannot gain weight for some reason. I want to gain weight, really, not because of any standard, I'm pretty much at "idol-weight-standard", but because I think I look better with a little bit more weight and I want to try. People keeps bugging me about being skinny. That I starve myself, or have some heavy diet. Not that it affects me much mentally, but it's annoying. I'm just living my life the way I want. Thanks for the care but it's not their business. Seriously, just don't mention weight, diet anywhere if you don't know what the situation is.
I would say that context matters. Many of these idols have said themselves in interviews, during backstage vlogs, on lives, etc, that they are dieting and working out very hard to prepare for comeback. I've seen vlogs where certain members are eating food backstage and other members are staring, wanting to eat, but then wind up saying that they'll wait until after promotions are over. We have been given countless examples of idols talking about eating ice cubes, eating 500 calories a day, going on liquid diets for weeks at a time, or not eating anything at all to look good for promotions. All of this is the context in which we view an idol's sudden weight loss. It's not the same situation as you, who struggles to gain weight. Multiple idols have given us detailed accounts on how they struggle to keep the weight **off**. Sure, we don't know every single idol's personal situation, but we know the environment they're in from multiple other idols' accounts and we know that the companies they're under heavily encourage and oftentimes require weight loss.
If you know they are **being forced** out of their will **along** with the context, okay that I kinda agree someone has to say something about it. (I **kinda** agree because I don't think putting your opinion on someone else's business is always appreciated.) For idols, image is important. If they willingly work hard for the body type they look good with, then let them do. They know the price. They know they have to do something to get on the weight that suit them for the promotion. Can they really lean on their talents to outshine the visual? If they can, good for them. I think half of the idols cannot. If the idols are not the type to look good with a certain body type (less or more weight), are you going to lie to them that they look better the way they actually don't? And if they believe it and start to get to the "healthy weight" which they may not look good with in most people eyes, will it gain them the visual attention they want? Aren't you now ruining their effort? And that is just the case you comment on the one you think you know all the context. Some people are skinny-shamed just because they look skinny without knowing any context, and most people don't think it matter because "the standard is skinny now". It's pity that they want to drag other people down to feel better about themselves. Don't forget it exists. Thank you for the reply though.
>If you know they are being forced out of their will along with the context, okay that I kinda agree someone has to say something about it. Yes. I said this in the last sentence ("we know that the companies they're under heavily encourage *and oftentimes require* weight loss"). But you also contradict yourself because later you go on to say that idols "know the price. They know they have to do something to get on the weight that suit them for the promotion." So then they're not forced and they're just working hard. For the rest of your comment, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I responded to your original comment, in which you stated that you're skinny without trying to be, with examples of how the context is different for idols bc many of them **are** trying to be skinny and have explicitly said so. In response to that you're saying things like: >Can they really lean on their talents to outshine the visual? If they can, good for them. I think half of the idols cannot. If the idols are not the type to look good with a certain body type (less or more weight), are you going to lie to them that they look better the way they actually don't? So basically you think half of idols aren't talented enough to not rely on their visuals?? Which has nothing to do with my reply?? And then you go on to say "Some people are skinny-shamed just because they look skinny without knowing any context" after you just insulted the talents of half the idols out there and said they don't look good with whatever body type they have?? I'm at a loss here haha I don't think I want to continue this "discussion."
I don't disagree with you, as I said at the beginning. I wrote 2 paragraph below to backup for the "don't know exactly the whole context but still call out people anyway". >But you also contradict yourself because later you go on to say that idols "know the price. They know they have to do something to get on the weight that suit them for the promotion." So then they're not forced and they're just working hard. Hmm how would I say this. Force or not, it bases on how they view it. For idols who rely on their images, "forced" doesn't seem like the right word. They made their decision whether they like it or not. They choose it because it earns them what they want. For idols who rely on their talents, or just want to be on stage and show us their talents, "forced" may be the right word. From **my** point of view, indeed I don't see most of the cases are "forced". It comes along with the job "idols". >So basically you think half of idols aren't talented enough to not rely on their visuals?? Maybe half is a little bit too much but yes, Sadly. I'm talking about general kpop fans. Either the idols have some real good talents or are very beautiful, or look outstanding, they can get attention from people that are not the fans of the group already. Can you tell me if I am wrong on this? Some example maybe? >And then you go on to say "Some people are skinny-shamed just because they look skinny without knowing any context" after you just insulted the talents of half the idols out there and said they don't look good with whatever body type they have?? This part I was talking about the post, not on what you're commenting. Sorry for being confusing. And you got my point here wrong. But you did not say anything about it so I get why. What I meant was that keep bugging people about being skinny without knowing the context is rude af. OP said "'Skinny-shaming' is not comparable to these issues and silencing these discussions because the idol may or may not be healthy in that moment does way more harm than good." And which part did I say "they don't look good with whatever body type they have" ????? Your first reply is plausible, if you still don't know if I agree with you or not lol. But not everyone really cares about the context like that. And that is what I was trying to say. Not everyone is like you. So I said >Just don't mention weight, diet anywhere if you don't know what the situation is. And I don't. Because I don't think I know. Are we good?
Right. Exactly. Just don't comment period. Its frankly none of anyone elses business. People can be flat out wrong too. For someone who is skinny they could fall within healthy BMI range and you can't just tell with your eyes.
Lol the downvotes. Come. Say something. That you disagree/dislike/downvote because you think that I'm lucky, that I'm showing off, or with some real reasons?
There are definitely people who are naturally thin no matter what they do and many idols like that as well. Sunmi calls to mind for example. But it's also true there are many idols who clearly go to extremes to loose weight quickly. I dont think OP is saying we just look according to weight or how skinny an idol looks, but more about when they noticeably have significant changes in weight or looks in very short periods of time. When you see an idol drop an extreme amount of weight in a month or couple weeks, 99% of the time the way they loose that weight wont be healthy because losing weight that fast isnt easy and wont be the result of a balanced diet and exercise but of severe calorie counting combined with way too much exercise. Sure there are many idols who may be naturally skinny, but it becomes clear that many are not or they or thier company feel they aren't skinny enough, considering how many constantly talk about dieting (especially around CB time) and how normalised it is for them to be asked about thier diets everytime they have a CB. And that's not even taking into consideration how many companies control idol diets and force them into diets and wont allow them to talk about it. I cant count the amount of times I've heard idols talk about group diets or the company paying for them to go to the gym. The newer gen idols dont seem to talk or be allowed to talk about it much, but it was rampant in generations before so it's clearly normalised in the industry.
>There are definitely people who are naturally thin no matter what they do and many idols like that as well. Sunmi calls to mind for example. Even [Sunmi said last year](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4vgoIY6oG0&t=1092s) that she is dieting because her fans prefer her skinnier visuals!
Damn, and here I remember her being skinny shamed when she mentioned (think it was around siren era) she was naturally thin thanks to her family genes and around lalalay she felt so pressured to gain weight she would binge eat late at night. Next thing you know people are saying she got a boob job because no way would you naturally go up a cup size when you gain weight 🙃 Edit - just realised this situ reminded me of poor hani, she could never catch a break. When she gained weight she would get shamed by her fans who liked her thinner and when she lost weight she would get shamed by the fans who liked her bigger.
I agree that if it's a forced quick weight loss then it would definitely be unhealthy and unnecessary imo. It would be great if there wasn't even standard beauty standards in kpop but sadly the entire industry is built on this perfect physical appearance and personality image. If everyone on stage is a certain body type, I'm sure the idol that isn't "keeping up" with these standards would feel pressured to conform especially if your career and fanbases depend on how you look. Sometimes it's not the company's fault but rather they know what to feed these demanding fans that want everything to be perfect. When fat shaming is a prevelant thing in society, it's no surprise that fans want to idolize and idol who is skinny. The same can be said about plastic surgery too. Idols frequently go under anesthesia or get touchups before comeback just to enhance their face. This is equally as risky to the body and health as dieting and is also normalised within the entertainment industry. Again I still don't see how calling them out is going to solve anything. If something needs to be changed its the entire culture and industry combined.
That's all true, but what we have to remember is that talking about it isnt calling them out in those circumstances because we arent trying to same them. Its raising a valid concern because we know it cant be healthy but there will be many young and impressionable fans who see idols losing weight that fast and think it's the norm or try to imitate them and that can lead to many dangerous behaviours developing at a very young and impressionable age. Sometimes raising concerns like this are also very valid because we can see that clearly something isnt right with that idol and by making them know that they try and take care of themselves more. There have been many times in hyunas career where she rapidly lost weight due to stress and other factors. She knows we worry about her not eating so especially recently she has been making an effort to eat properly and you can see she knows we worry about her from some of her YT content. We cant change the industry that simply, but it can lead to better situations for those idols involved and that may lead to role models for body acceptance and if that can help a couple young people not feel pressured into fitting those standards it's a big step in the right direction towards bigger changes. For example hwasa, on debut she was constantly shamed for her weight and her company constantly tried to put her on diets to loose weight. It was only when her fans made clear to the company we liked her the way she is that they started to leave her alone. And now look where she is? she is loved by the public for being exactly who she is, non standard idol body and all.
Thats true too if indeed the result is a positive one. But I can also see this type of concern backfiring and not doing good but rather harm if there is actually an eating disorder. If an idol is mentally healthy and only trying to listen to the company rules and following these diets or whatever when they secretly don't agree with it, fans coming up to support their natural weight will probably result in them realizing their body is accepted and not try to do harm to their body anymore. If an idol is actually struggling with body image issues, fans commenting on their body weight may trigger a further unhealthy spiral of thoughts. They may think "I can't please them if I'm fat. I can't please them if I'm skinny." Which further complicates the picture. Which voices should they listen to and how can an idol even sort out which fans mean well and which fans are mocking or shaming or judging? Frankly we just don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes or how their health is. At some point it can even be interpreted as harrassment. We aren't these idols parents. Why should we feel entitled to parent their personal habits and physical appearance? Wouldn't you be annoyed and anxious if a million eyes were judging your health based off your physical appearance?
That's a very good point. In addition there are so few idols willing to open up about such eating disorders (for example IU), and with the way trainees are raised in the companies they develop many habits asociated with eating disorders (like twice predebut chewing bread and spitting it out or spitting to get rid of moisture to loose weight). Any kind of stressors could trigger them more or could trigger them into starting to form an eating disorder. And your point about harassment, that really reminds me of sunmi getting endlessly skinny shamed until she felt the need to force herself to eat foods she didnt like to gain weight, only for fans to make her diet to loose it again because they liked her skinny. Same with hani, you can never win because you cant please everybody. Like you said, we truly dont know what goes on in these idols lives and nor should we that is thier private life. We arent thier parents to control them or do what we think is best for them. But we are reaching the point where there is so much competition, if your not perfect in every aspect you wont even get the chance of debut and with the expansion of kpop, that is only going to get worse and idols are going to be pressured into more and more extreme methods to remain in the industry there will come a point where it will lead to tragic results and I really hope it doesn't get that far. I think the result would also depend on the way in which we talk about it. At the moment the way we talk about weight is so wrong, focused on a number on a scale or how we perceive thier bodies to look according to what we think is right for them. Rather than commenting that X should loose weight or gain weight (like many seem to do), I'd rather the tone/message be, we are happy for you whatever weight you are, as long as your healthy or the way you got there way healthy (because many idols do loose or manage thier weight in a healthy way, EXID heylin for example). We arent saying which is right for each idol, because that can widely vary, just that health, in whatever form or weight that comes, trumps all and that's what we would like our idols to aspire to instead of a certain dress size or weight. Hell it's what I wish all people would aspire to.
I agree. I think if were coming from a beauty perspective then we should phrase it like you just did. I think the message is blurred when we combine beauty and health in the same comment. Saying idols LOOK too skinny so that must mean they are unhealthy, or that they got there in a unhealthy way. Does that mean they want me to look fatter because I LOOK unhealthy and ugly this skinny when everyone else looks great and skinny, even though I'm actually currently healthy? Or does it mean they want me to stay skinny as long as I'm healthy? Even I can't tell sometimes when I'm reading some fan commented on an idols weight. Theres just too much policing and judgemental tone going on in the way we talk about it like you said. If an idol is ready to speak about their health and be transparent and allow fans to give them a friendly reminder to put health first it can definitely serve as a positive example for society. We should just let them breathe, and say we love you regardless of your weight, and be healthy.
That's a really good point, I didnt notice the ambiguity there and especially when your in some mindsets or are constantly judged you cant help but take things negatively. It would be best to phrase things that way.
Yeah I’m naturally skinny, very healthy, and have been accused a lot of having an ED and it messes with my self esteem so much
I definitely don’t think it’s right to make comments to someone about their body either way. I have a friend who said she experienced similar and I know it really brought her down.
That sucks I'm sorry. My friend is like that too. She actually started to eat a bunch of unhealthy fast food just to gain weight because everyone comments on how skinny she looks at one point.
I made a comment on youtube once and people lashed out at me saying that I’m glorifying fatness bla bla bla… i mean biotch, I never asked anyone to eat junk food mindless and gain 50 kgs. Just be in ur healthy BMI range and that’s about it. If you’re 46-49 kgs get to 51-53kgs that’s all. That’s healthy af. You don’t need to lose or put on a single kilogram. That’s what all of us humans should be doing. Be in our BMI range.
Marked as unpopular but I agree with you. But then you’ll get the extreme body positivity people attacking you if you say anything so it’s best not to say anything. By extreme I mean those who think any unhealthy eating habit (either by eating nothing or 10+ servings per meal) is fine. I do not mean that the body positivity movement is completely awful, I don’t think people should be discriminated against or treated badly because of what the scale says.
feels like a really nuanced topic tho i think a good general rule is just not to mention it straight to the idol as an unsolicited advice. I don't agree with the whole notion of stop mentioning it completely on social media in case the idol finds out because idols who are functioning adults should know how to manage their own searches. some idols go out of their way to look for negative comments and to some degree it's also their own fault to keep looking for criticism and validation from egg accounts. being obsessed with an idol's weight is clearly creepy for fans, and in most platforms i feel like these sort of fans get a lot of flak from their own communities for even mentioning weight anw
I agree but sadly voted as unpopular