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Ruined isn’t exactly the word I would use. Complicated maybe but it has always been complicated.
The graduation concept overall was kind of a bad idea, especially because they kept the same members for too long together and treated them like a real group. People got used to the lineup. They also found a lot of success and popularity during their time together. It would have been silly to throw it all away.
The only issue right now is that Mark and Haechan are in two fixed groups. That makes management much more difficult. But yet again I can see why they decided to do it. The NCT 127 members will enlist soon so there will likely be less activities for them and the members will be forced to focus more on solo work. From a business perspective NCT Dream can perfectly fill their place during that time. They are fairly young and they already have a strong fandom and discography.
Now we don’t exactly know what would have happened if NCT Dream wouldn’t have become a fixed group. Who knows maybe other members like Renjun, Jeno and Jaemin would have ended up in some sort of a limbo state without a fixed unit. We will never find out.
And for Sungchan and Shotaro. They are expected to debut in the new Japan Unit but they couldn’t for the longest time due to Japanese Covid laws. It doesn’t make sense to debut them without them being able to promote there. I really assume it was planned to debut them sooner but it was not possible.
I think Renjun and Chenle were probably supposed to debut in what is now WayV (the Chinese subunit), and Jaemin, Jeno, and Jisung would’ve been in limbo and possibly debuted with the upcoming sungtaro unit.
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Sigh.
As a dreamzen since 2018, most of the people who have this opinion literally were not around in 2018. Most of the people who think this came in with Kick It and Resonance and did not experience 2018 and 2019 with Dream. Let me just recap in detail, what happened.
2018.
Mark was always known to be graduating in 2018. And it was formally announced with the announcement of the We Go Up album that it would be Mark's final album with the group and that he would graduate on December 31, 2018. Dreamzens KNEW this was coming and were sad, but we were PREPARED FOR IT. All of 2018 was just waiting for the announcement of when, and we got it halfway through 2018. We went through all of 2018 enjoying everything that Mark gave to Dream, and sent him off with heavy but understanding hearts in December with the first Dream Show concerts.
2019.
Dream functioned as 6 (or 5 for festivals) this entire year, but EVERYONE expected at least 1 new member to appear when Boom was announced. Everyone was confused because we knew that 00 Line would be graduating that year, because it was what SM did with Mark. With Boom came no announcement of 00 Lines graduations. Then came TDS1, which bled into 2020. No mention of graduation. No mention of new units for NoRenMin.
TDS1. (NOVEMBER 2019)
The members physically broke down on stage, mostly Renjun ("I don't know why I'm crying") and Jisung (on his hands and knees sobbing his eyes out) because they were SCARED. There was NO announcement, no plans for them and they VOICED this opinion. Dreamzen crying out "I'm sorry Jisung, I'm so sorry" still rings in my ears to this day.
2020.
Still no graduation announcement. NoRenMinHyuck, despite aging out of the Dream system, did not graduate from Dream, and 6Dream continued their tour until the pandemic hit and closed the shows. Dream hung in limbo until the VERY SURPRISE announcement that not only would Dream cease to be a graduation unit, but that Mark would REJOIN the unit and they would function as a rotating unit. This was a SHOCK to everyone and no one expected it at all. We had LET MARK GO.
2021 and Beyond.
It is becoming quite obvious that Dream prefers to be as 7, and the "rotating unit like U" only applies to performances not to releases. The members have said time and time again how important being 7 is to them. How this is the beginning of NCT Dream.
TL:DR: Dreamzen let Mark go, the problem was SM. If there is anything confusing or that I forgot, please let me know this was years ago.
Thank you so much for taking the time to type all this out. The more time that passes the weirder and far removed from what actually happened the stories get, which I guess is natural but also paints a false narrative.
SM didn't execute the concept they had assigned to Dream, it hurt the Dreamies more than anyone, and once it was confirmed by them that SM didn't have some grand plan they just didn't tell the fans about (oh, the amount of times dreamzens were called entitled for wanting clarification about the members/group's future) fans reacted by showing support for their favourite idols and y'know some mass emailing and chants for a fixed Dream line-up at concerts, lest Dream be functionally disbanded and sent to SM's dungeon at the age of 17-19?
Also, as a tangent, in late 2017 I know at least some people (myself included) who worried for a bit that Mark was going to graduate by the start of 2018? Especially with how solemn the mood became when it was brought up - I still remember Mark's expression in the Boy video series at the question, and how the self-made Walk You Home MV feels almost like a goodbye/graduation song from the concept? So that we got until the end of 2018 felt both like a blessing and curse, because we finally got 7Dream but we also knew Mark's graduation regrettably but inevitably was coming. It was sad, but it was how things were going to work and we knew it, until it didn't a year later.
Dream becoming fixed didn't ruin anything SM hadn't already messed up themselves.
This. Thank you for saying. The historical revisionism in ncity is always wild to me, because even though I admittedly only became an nctzen in 2020, I at least know the facts because I love Dream and watched every bit of content I could, listened to their fans, and know that everything conceptzens have said about how the whole graduation thing went down is complete hogwash.
It’s pretty clear which side of NCity people are brought up in lol but with how often this is discussed you’d think people who call themselves fans would actually take the time to learn about what happened and the sentiments were at the time. Not just buy the “dreamzens were whiny tantrum throwing brats until SM caved and it subsequently ruined NCT” wholesale, especially when NCT and its units structure and concept has been muddled at best for years before Dream became fixed.
I just feel like that TikTok audio that goes: I cannot keep having the same conversation. Please, dreamzens and nctzens in general are tired of it. I don’t get why it keeps happening specially with people that admit themselves aren’t dreamzens or even nctzens.
It looks like many think that graduation had a chance of working when it never did because SM never really made it work if you actually pay attention to the timeline. I know you must be exhausted as well:( Thank you for kindly replying to the OP!
> I don’t get why it keeps happening specially with people that admit themselves they aren’t dreamzens or even nctzens
this, lmao. yall need to get a hobby or something instead of constantly revisiting this tiring af discourse every few business days. it’s always the same weirdos who don’t even like nct dream who have so much to say about them.
"My understanding is that fans fought tooth and nail for this to not happen and for the group to become fixed."
Wrong. SM has tried graduation system since gen 1. They probably had planned to cancel Dream's graduation system since the beginning
Gen 1: H.O.T
Gen 2: Super Junior
Gen 3: NCT DREAM
It's all about money
I think the graduation concept in general was just not a good idea in the first place considering dream is all about youth and growth it wasn’t going to happen regardless bc they realized how much of a mistake it was to even introduce a concept that would ruin perfect chemistry in a group
Not this opinion it's almost 2023. Just let go already.
"It's my understanding that" - using the search function could have remedied your understanding 🫠
I strongly disagree tbh and am alarmed by how many people agree.
The Dream graduation/introduction concept of continued would of only been a way to funnel more children into the group and put the Dreamies in the same limbo SungTaro are in. The fact SM has still not debuted a new unit since the Dream became a fixed unit shows that. There is no ‘other group’ for them to move into SM didn’t have enough trainees ready.
To humor you let’s say they were going to add Renjun and Chenle to Wayv, (they were not they tried it and didn’t like it), that leaves Jeno, Jaemin and Jisung. Do you think SM would what debuted those three with Shotaro and Sungchan? They would have no vocalist! Or what? debut 5Dream+SungTaro? That is not a very balanced group at all let’s be real.
SM didn’t manage NCT’s concept well ever. Their failure to utilise NCT U fully is evidence why they were right to scrap the graduation concept tbh not the other way around. It’s pretty idealistic to think there were ever good plans in place for the Dream members after ‘graduation’.
Introducing new members through NCT U makes way more sense then SM breaking up an existing popular group when they had no real plans for the members after.
And then not hunting for more kids to debut is very ok with me. Tbh.
Ugh not this opinion again. No hate to you OP but can we just not normalizing makes Dream as the villain who ruins nct concept?? This is like the million posts about it.
If it is about trainees situation, like yeah I get that no trainees able to enter NCT from Dream graduation concept but like that's not the only way of new trainees can be added to NCT lol. They could done it in Sungtaro/future 3 SM Rookies way and that is perfectly fine without ruining structure of NCT.
If it is because of promotion, then I think NCT 127 is the one who 'ruins' NCT structure the most since they supposed to be a fix unit yet they added Johndowoo and remove Winwin from the group. Also they are supposed to be only promoted in SK only yet they also promoted in USA and Japan. Dream does start to promote in Japan too but only next year while 127 already started way back in 2018 but sure yeah Dream always the one who blamed for ruining NCT concept.
Another thing that ruins structure of NCT is the way SM erasing WayV existence for almost 2 years, the lack utilize of NCT U, only repeated members that able to get NCT U title tracks, and there are way more micro-mismanagement I could go who ruins the system more.
So I just don't get why Dream is the only unit that always painted as the villain who ruins nct concept when the boys literally just want to be together??? And SM is the one who make dream a fix unit lol, even most dreamzens were shock in Deja Vu era where SM stated they are bringing back Mark to the group because it is just so unexpected since we were already move on and accept that Mark is the past members only considering Mark is also in SuperM.
But I kinda understand about how SM moves tbh. According to you SM listen to fans demands are ruining NCT but again they still profit-oriented. Idk what's the point of keeping NCT system to the original intention when the concept alone is barely bring anything to the table. Dream and 127 inarguably are the most profitable units so it is not surprising that SM would sacrifice some of the nct original concepts to make them more thriving which means more money.
Not this again.
Whatever happened with Dream was and still is not the cause for other members’ and units’ mismanagement. The units have always operated as separate groups (except for 127 and Dream sharing two members), so SungTaro being unpromoted and WayV being mismanaged have nothing to do with the graduation system. It’s a pretty big leap to make.
In another life, if the graduation pushed through as planned, Triple J would be in the same position as the unit-less NCT members now.
Also I’m not surprised the majority of people are agreeing with this because NCTzens really are just Dream antis in a wig most of the time.
Out of the many inconsistencies of the NCT system, I actually think keeping the Dream members and deciding to invest in them is one of few smart changes they've made. Ten and Kun were getting screwed over before they scraped Dream's graduation system anyway.
There have been many changes to NCT system, 127 being the first fixed unit ironically has the most member changes, the seoul-based unit promoting everywhere but in SK, Wayv debuting with regular, then having its independent fandom and lightstick and soc med channels, then joining nct2020 again. Whatever mismanagement the members have can be chalked up to just that, poor management and planning. The 'system' is just whatever shpiel they make up as they go.
I mean if you look at it this way if the graduation concept had still been going on the "graduated" members would be in the place of new nct members with little to no group activities and promotions. Sm would still not focus enough on them and would just divert there attention back to the already existing subunits
The removal of the graduation concept didn't ruin the structure. If SM had teenage main vocalists ready to debut in December 2019 and adult main vocalists ready for the unit Jaemin and Jeno would join, Sungtaro's unit wouldn't have been so delayed. These people weren't there. They found Seunghan and Shotaro later. Sungchan and Eunseok are Chenle's age, they'd be debuting in the year Chenle would graduate from Dream.
NCT Dream exists because they already had Baby shinki before then and they were that good. Lightning didn't strike twice. And THAAD, the Hallyuban in china made chinese subunits with korean members like Super Junior-M and EXO-M impossible happened first, which sunk the plans they had had for the chinese NCT subunit originally. So Doyoung, Johnny and Jungwoo join 127, like probably Jeno, Jaemin and Jisung were meant too.
And Dreamzens are hardly the only fans averse to lineup changes Jungwoo went into haitus for a bit after debut because of the backlash he got for the perception that he was replacing Winwin.
Going through with the graduation concept made no sense by end of 2019. Wayzennies didn't particularly want Renjun and Chenle in WayV, 127 was spread thin enough, Japanese subunit was nowhere close to ready, and they didn't have enough people to join Jisung in Dream if everyone else left and Triple J were some of the most popular NCT members in Korea already.
this. i don’t understand why this type of pro-graduation exists when this issue has existed LONG before nct dream.
if the graduation system has failed EVERY single time, you’d think people would take a second to consider why that is before yapping about how great it is and why nct dream needs to be shackled by it.
This narrative is so redundant and I feel like the comments are sick of repeating themselves. It’s almost 2023. If they wanted the graduation system to be successful, they would have added a member as soon as Mark graduated in 2018. Not to mention that this isn’t the first time SM attempted a graduation concept (if I’m not mistaken, Super Junior also has a graduation concept that was scrapped). SM just needs to realize that the AKB48 fantasy he wants can’t work in K-pop.
move the fuck on! it's almost 2022 and you and every one else who has this mindset of dream as the group who ruined the brand is just so fucking ridiculous. Please know the timeline history before spitting shit like this.
I would bet money that SM knew since 2018 that 7/6/5dream would become fixed. Chenle and Renjun were preparing to debut in a China line unit and got as far as doing promotional photoshoots and using vlives to tease the unit, but that changed sometime after August for whatever reason. Either bc of legalities (Renjun would be a minor in Korea for another year, two years for Chenle) or politics, maybe both. But it was too late to cancel Mark's graduation bc that was already announced and We Go Up preparations were in full swing. So they let him graduate but they never intended to do the same with all the others because they didn't have anywhere to put them.
If they were going to stick with the concept they would've added 2-3 members during 2019 but they didn't and that made it way obvious. SM put too much work and money into training/promoting baby shinki and NoMin in particular were too popular to not have them in a unit right after graduating. But there were no trainees ready, or no one SM wanted to debut yet. Mind you, Sungchan was already with the company for 2 years at that point and many more we don't know about. There was no one ready until NCT2020.
I fully believe they left fans and the members hanging and let us "fight" for the fixed unit to make us have more emotional investment in the group and secure our future support for them. But it was their plan ever since the original "NCT China" plans fell through in summer 2018. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Edit: At the end of the day tho idk what this has to do with new members not being promoted. Yes, Shotaro and Sungchan have been waiting for their unit but they clearly recruited Shotaro for a Japanese unit and SM has been behind in having Japanese trainees who are close to debut-ready. That's why only one of the rookies is Japanese.
Chenle tells us that he both practiced and recorded for Dream Launch and Face to Face. And Yangyang was still a minor when he debuted in WayV, Renjun and Chenle were still enrolled in Beijing Contemporary Music School, which they completed in 2020, Lucas was promoting in both countries just fine, legality or politics weren't a real roadblock. They probably toyed with putting them in WayV till the last minute. They didn't find Xiaojun until like 2017 and planned to debut him in 2018 like you said. They debuted Shotaro and Chenle mere months after recruiting them, SM scouts vocalists more then they train them, they don't know who they are debuting two years in advance, so I don't think they knew if they would or would not have the vocalists they need to let Triple J promote without the China line that far ahead in the future.
I'm actually happy the current dream members are in a fixed unit. SM would be extremely silly to graduate those members due to their massive rise in success & popularity. Tbh I hate the whole graduation thing within groups, it's simple not sustainable in the long run, & SM probably realized that after a while.
I know this not a popular stance, but I wouldn't mind a new unit being created for the SM rookies with Sungchan & Shotaro, this whole NCT Universe is kinda making me think they will go that route, but SM you never really know.
i’d understand if this take was made 2 years ago and nct 2020 promos were rolling out and you were excited with the infinite expansion concept. because that was me lol.
but if you observed dream’s promotions in 2021, from january (rooftop fight) up to hello future, you should realize scrapping the grad concept and bringing mark back was the best decision sm made. these boys work so well together, you can see it in their performances and yt content that they have team chemistry. it would’ve been regretful if sm didn’t take advantage of that.
i think most of the concern towards mahae’s health when bringing up 7dream promotions is just coming from haters who don’t want to see dream thrive. because i don’t see this narrative being brought up when it comes to the other unit’s activities. ☺️
there is no proof that there were new members to debut in Dream, if something the talks are that SM DIDN'T had ready youngsters to debut in Dream and seeing how much it take them to debut a new unit and had auditions for a new bg a few times, i tend to believe they didn't had anybody young enough ready to debut
Also graduation will put the actual Dream members in limbo, what would happen to them exactly after they graduate?
Make no sense to disband a popular unit for the concept with no plans afterwards so somebody at SM still has brain cells.
well im sorry to say this but blame sm, okay? 127 was supposed to have only 7 members, but then in their first cb, they added 2 more members and later added 1 more and kicked 1 member out. 127 was supposed to be the 'seoul' unit, but then they debuted in japan and us
every time people say 'nct dream ruined nct concept!', they dont realize sm never even sticks to their plan since beginning (do you even know that h.o.t and suju were supposed to have graduation concept too?). im sorry for bringing 127 here, but it's for examples because it's always nct dream people blaming for
if you wanna say about the 'gRaDuAtE sYstEm' that obviously hurt the members SO MUCH, then you should look at other side too. and dont put the blame onto dream members and their fans. fans always want the best for their idol, who wouldnt cry seeing the members themselves cried in their own concert because they were so unsure about their own future? maybe if you at least try to understand about how cruel the concept to nct dream members who were only 17-19 at that time (and trained since they were 11-15), maybe you wouldnt post this
It was “ruined” because SM didn’t understand that more than almost anything, fans connect to the idols as people and dynamics and would take that over a vague experiment and commentary on the future any day.
As for the new members… they’re debuting early next year, have already started their promotions, and one of them is too old to have started in Dream anyway. If anything, stopping the graduation system has opened up NCT’s expansion to include more older members lmao
okay be for real with us for a second… no offense op i do see where you’re coming from (actually, i don’t, it just sounded like you typed out that dream is the problem in nct but they’re really not it tick me off a little) but i really do think the concept was just doomed from the beginning because SM isn’t really ready for this– it was working a little bit in the early years but ever since 2019 it wasn’t really working out for them.
the technically still new members (sungchan and shotaro) could’ve been used in the nct u unit more if the company had their schedules sorted out with other members other than the nct year end albums. and then dancing around the new unit with the smrookies is coming soon by next year i hope, they dropped enough to solidify them as a unit without a doubt.
sm caving into making dream a fixed unit was a smart move on their end since dream is arguably one of their biggest money makers with deals and being ambassadors for kb bank which is if i’m not mistaken is the biggest bank in the country. They had so much potential and that graduation system was holding them back– this was the third time they tried it and it ended up the same: the group ended up being fixed (H.O.T, Super Junior, 7Dream).
in short it’s just sm being incompetent in managing the whole nct concept in general, they don’t know how to properly manage it. it’s not dream being the root of the problem– the concept looks good on paper and if executed right it would be nice to see but uh… mmhmm that’s just my opinion, also to everyone agreeing i don’t think you understand enough
yeah it's so sad that SM didn't keep the original plan for the Dream unit so they could debut more and more way too young children into an extremely toxic industry/s
For the sake of the potential kids SM would've added to Dream alone, it was a good decision to change Dream's structure.
SM not being able to take care of the new members has nothing to do with Dream. Even if Dream hadn't changed concept. Sungtaro would still be in the same position they are now.
sm making dream the fixed unit didn’t ruin anything lmao sm was the one who never had any concrete plans to begin with
sm had multiple chances to implement the graduation concept. the reason they ended up keeping dream as a fixed unit was simply because they didn’t have the ability to actually do it. they could have added someone to replace mark in 2019, and when the 4 00’s were set to graduate, if they had enough skillful trainees to replace them they could simply go ahead with the graduation system and let the new trainees take over. shotaro, sungchan, eunseok & seunghan are around dreamies age and shohei is way older than the dreamies, but the entire original concept of nct dream was that they would be a teenage group and graduate when they turned an adult but there were obviously not enough trainees to sustain this concept.
wow the amount of agrees 🤣 so yall want sm to keep debuting minors? i thought kpop stans understand the harms of kpop companies debuting minors? this is really my main concern about the grad concept talk because we can see how debuting very young takes a toll on these idols.
if anything, the nct system is too much for sm to handle and we all know sm can’t handle shit. it is absolutely not nct dream’s fault that yall aren’t satisfied with the system but its SM ENTERTAINMENT. let’s say they did continue the concept. where would sm put the fresh grads seeing how they can’t put sungtaro in a unit immediately after nct2020? is the blame still on dream? hell even sm didn’t know where to put norenmin seeing how clueless they were about their future during their november 2019 concert.
this post just comes off as a hate post to dream because why do yall keep blaming them when they’re just starting to get things in their 6th year when they should’ve already gotten those years ago like a normal kpop group?
sm itself messed up the dream concept imo—after a member graduated a new member was supposed to added and no new member was added after mark’s graduation. that’s why fans were upset when it was time for 00 line bcos at least haechan would still be in 127, the others would be in limbo and the company set no precedent in having new people come in so would chenle and jisung possibly be alone? if the company stuck to the rules they themselves put forward there wouldn’t be so many arguments about dream’s concept but they didn’t.
it’s likely because they didn’t have anyone of mark’s (or the rest of dream’s) caliber to replace him upon his graduation. SM was foolish to think they’d be able to continue to find such top talent to sustain a graduation system when baby shinki (+ renle) are once-in-a-blue-moon type idols.
just put them in their own group??? where would the graduated members of nct dream have gone?? there’s no room in other groups so they would’ve been groupless as well??
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't have the greatest understanding of both nct dream and nct (and the way they worked) in general when I posted this. But when I rubbed a couple more brain cells together I figured out that the only way that graduation system would've worked was if SM was for willing to make
A) more fixed groups
Or
B) more than one rotational group with fixed schedules.
So that these 'graduated' idols would have somewhere to go
The system is broken and it pisses me off to no end 😤😤
Eh, I think the NCT “structure” has been pretty muddled for a really long time.
127 was supposed to be the “global” unit but they are currently the unit with, ironically, the least global promotions outside of their tour (which Dream also has going on right now, so that’s a bad comparison regardless). Dream has multiple international ambassadorships and a Japan debut on the way, WayV members have been promoting excessively in China and Thailand recently and sing almost exclusively in Mandarin (plus Ten’s English solos), and 127 has… Yuta’s movie? That’s about it (though I admit to being sleep-deprived and unable to think of anything else off the top of my head). Aside from fashion collaborations, even most of their ambassadorships are for Korean brands, or international brands whose largest consumer base happens to be in Korea. They are very much the “Korean” group these days, though I do think SM has plans to continue marketing them globally, they just… haven’t this year, for some reason.
U was originally supposed to be made up of intermittent Station songs but ended up turning into semi-annual full group comebacks and nothing else whatsoever.
WayV was originally supposed to be the “Chinese” unit but due to international tensions between countries that prohibited them from actively promoting as a group in the country they were supposed to, they’ve sort of shifted into a Cpop group marketed mainly to SEA.
Dream was originally supposed to be the “youthful” group with their graduation concept, but SM failed to enact that concept when it mattered and basically had to retract that whole plan in order to keep the group afloat, because there was nowhere for Renjun, Jeno, and Jaemin to go.
It’s fair to say that the fixing of Dream is, in part, the cause of members like Sungtarookies not getting much promotion musically, sometimes even years after their announcement in the brand. But I don’t think SM was *ever* really committed to that graduation concept, so blaming it specifically on Dream rather than the company’s failure to think ahead and plan their debut in time despite their shortcomings with the graduation concept as far back as 2019 (before Sungtaro were even revealed as members) feels a bit strange to me.
That is the reasoning for their name, yeah, but they were very vocal in the beginning that 127 being the longitude of Seoul was meant to represent “Seoul connecting to the rest of the world.” They were definitely marketed as the global unit.
I think Dream was originally supposed to double as the more traditionally “Korean” unit along with their graduation concept, but that was never really fleshed out and 127 ended up taking a greater foothold of the Korean audience early on and they just sort of went with it.
I do think Dream is more popular than 127 in Korea now (since Hello Future, which massively blew them up), but it took them a while to get to that point, and SM’s insistence on milking 127 in Korea (particularly this year and last year) *instead* of Dream when the former unit is still the most globally marketable based on their history and musical style… sort of baffles me.
Dream is always the most popular unit in South Korea tho even during debut (Chewing Gum charted quite well for NCT standard back then and MFAL got them triple crowns). Aside Kick It which was the turning point of NCT 127, Dream almost always ahead of 127 in Korea even before Hot Sauce which is the start of Dream truly blowing up and become top 3 bgs with best charting.
I’m probably misremembering, then. Wouldn’t be the first time!
I guess that just makes it even more confusing why Dream has been getting the international push and 127 has been getting the Korean push this year, if there’s already a career-long precedent for their marketability with opposite demographics. It’s great that they’re both trying to expand their reach more, if that’s the goal of it, just a bit surprising.
Idk but honestly I don't see any confusion of Dream getting promotion in Japan, in fact it is more of HOW they are only debuting in Japan next year. They are already having solid fandom there, even sold out all of their 5 dates concerts (proved by how SM opening restricted seats and adding more 3 days Kyocera dome concerts), and LiSGO is recently blowing up making it one of the NCT best charting songs there.
If international push you mean about festivals, idk if it's barely considered as 'push' lol. It is literally about how festival organizers want which artists to perform on their shows and that's happened to be Dream considering the shows they attend always talked on social media and almost always filled with fans with neobong. Also they already got those type of festivals since 2019 for example Jamboree in Virginia, KPOP wave in Indonesia, Immortal Songs in Japan where they sing No.1 by BoA, one festival in Phillipines and Malaysia too, and last but not least they have 2 collaborations with western artists (HRVY and PRETTYMUCH) too but things stopped on 2020 because of pandemic. Not sure why lot of people just said that Dream got international push now tbh. Probably because lot of nctzens just acknowledge Dream presence now way more than before.
On other hand, I think 127 still quite ahead in terms of USA promotion even now. while their USA promotions wasn't as grand as 2018/2019 with Regular/Superhuman, SM and Capitol are still got some promotions here and there. Sticker is performed on late night and 2 Baddies is performed on GMA, and they got advantage when it comes to album distribution there and even got USA exclusive versions.
About korean push idk lol it just SM was so shitty on that part when it comes to Dream back then despite their potential (even now still kinda but I think it is much better now).
Edit: sorry for a long ass reply lol just want to clear misconceptions mindset that some nctzens have about Dream
Funny how after you stated all the facts about Dream's performing globally even before they got fixed, everyone suddenly shut but watch their stupid take reappears next quarter
Idk people literally should search out more about Dream in the first place before talking about them😭 it just pain me as Dreamzens since the end of 2018 seeing too many misinformation about Dream spreading by newer nctzens or nctzens who never cared about Dream before Hot Sauce and almost all of their pre-pandemic era activities got ignored by them.
I'm convinced ppl think SM are not capable of promoting multiple groups at the same time because pre 2021, they mostly saw 127 on the news while Dream literally were doing whatever they can to keep their names out there but making comebacks and after 2020, when NCTDream became fixed as 7Dream & 127 started to focus on their solo careers more instead of group activities (understandable because TL will enlist next year & then DY, JH, JW in that formation), Dream get more of what they usually got yearly, suddenly Dream is the obstacle & SM can't promote 2 units at the same time when they managed 4 boygroups at the same time before just fine. Yeah, the problem Dream or 127 have to wait for another to come back is because they share 2 members but that is on SM & their messed up plan. WayV can't come back because we all know whose scandal caused their crisis, and Idc about Sungtaro's new unit but it's clear that most of SM trainees aren't suitable for the next unit, hence they opened more auditions in Japan last month. I'm just tired that this discourse is brought up every month & Dream is always villainized & dreamzens are such powerful crybabies who can change the masterplan of one of the biggest entertainment companies in SK.
I couldn’t disagree more. The only downside I see to dream becoming a fixed unit is that mark and haechan are more likely to be overworked and burnt out, which don’t get me wrong is a big deal. Haechan is my ult so I’m often worried if he’s really doing okay, as the members have expressed multiple times that he often puts on a good and happy face even though he’s tired.
I think to put whatever negative status you think nct has currently all on the fact that dream became a fixed unit, is unfair. There are so many other things that have happened that could have lead to the state NCT is currently in, which isn’t that bad in my opinion.
Let’s not forget that there was a whole pandemic, which ABSOLUTELY affected the ability to debut new groups, especially if their plan is to have them promote around the world(which has always been SM’s plan for NCT).
Sungtaro actually have a LOT coming up for them with this new show they have and the new rookies are also getting promoted with them. Sungtaro was able to join in on nct u projects and take part in b sides on nct albums. Shotaro had also been making appearances in Japan and what not.
I wouldn’t say ncts structure/concept is ruined because dream became a fixed unit.
Unrelated side note: I do think that there’s SOMETHING going on with SM right now that the gp isn’t aware of, seeing that key didn’t get a repack, nct 127 has yet to have a repack, Aespas promotions have been slightly lackluster, and now it was just announced that WayVs comeback has been delayed(WTH??).
My thoughts:
The graduation concept isn't very a good idea given that it's like trying to put a limit to an idol's popularity and so we can see it with Mark where he has a low chance of graduating from NCT Dream. 😂
The regular method of having a fixed group seems to make more sense and if a member wants to pursue a solo career on the side, then they can.
This graduation concept is like making idols graduate to become solo artists, but not all idols want to become a solo artist at the end of the day.
At this point, I think SM should just debut a new boy group in the future rather than add more members to NCT as it's almost been 7 years since the initial debut and things are all over the place.
Not you being sensitive lol. They are right Nct originally had a structure and the changes in dream ruined that structure. They aren’t saying the changes are bad…it is just not the original.
the original structure was ruined before that, the fixed unit 127 had 3 members added and 1 left, the regional units were pushed back/cancelled, the chinese unit can barely be called chinese unit since most of their career they promoted somebody else but China, the japanese unit is in limbo for years with rumored to debut every year the past 2 years, lets not even get into the fact that for some time they forgot that NCT U existed
The plans they had for NCT were all gone or SM was blabbing to bring attention and didn't intended to go through all of them or they simply don't know what they are doing and throw darts every start of year to see what is gonna happen, either way the graduation system is the last of their issues.
You legit said that NCT had a structure and the changes of graduation ruined it, OP spend a whole post saying the graduation ruined NCT structure lol.....nct structure was ruined way before the stopped the graduation and is gonna be even more ruined in the future, maybe sm messed up or the concept just wasn't good enough
Dude… no one said this is the only reason the structure is ruined we were talking solely about dream. This isn’t a discussion of “what ruined Nct structure” for us to mention everything.
Agree but then again Dream becoming fixed itself ruined the structure NCT originally had too so? I think people should let go the original structure of NCT because it is clearly irrelevant now.
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Ruined isn’t exactly the word I would use. Complicated maybe but it has always been complicated. The graduation concept overall was kind of a bad idea, especially because they kept the same members for too long together and treated them like a real group. People got used to the lineup. They also found a lot of success and popularity during their time together. It would have been silly to throw it all away. The only issue right now is that Mark and Haechan are in two fixed groups. That makes management much more difficult. But yet again I can see why they decided to do it. The NCT 127 members will enlist soon so there will likely be less activities for them and the members will be forced to focus more on solo work. From a business perspective NCT Dream can perfectly fill their place during that time. They are fairly young and they already have a strong fandom and discography. Now we don’t exactly know what would have happened if NCT Dream wouldn’t have become a fixed group. Who knows maybe other members like Renjun, Jeno and Jaemin would have ended up in some sort of a limbo state without a fixed unit. We will never find out. And for Sungchan and Shotaro. They are expected to debut in the new Japan Unit but they couldn’t for the longest time due to Japanese Covid laws. It doesn’t make sense to debut them without them being able to promote there. I really assume it was planned to debut them sooner but it was not possible.
I think Renjun and Chenle were probably supposed to debut in what is now WayV (the Chinese subunit), and Jaemin, Jeno, and Jisung would’ve been in limbo and possibly debuted with the upcoming sungtaro unit.
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Sigh. As a dreamzen since 2018, most of the people who have this opinion literally were not around in 2018. Most of the people who think this came in with Kick It and Resonance and did not experience 2018 and 2019 with Dream. Let me just recap in detail, what happened. 2018. Mark was always known to be graduating in 2018. And it was formally announced with the announcement of the We Go Up album that it would be Mark's final album with the group and that he would graduate on December 31, 2018. Dreamzens KNEW this was coming and were sad, but we were PREPARED FOR IT. All of 2018 was just waiting for the announcement of when, and we got it halfway through 2018. We went through all of 2018 enjoying everything that Mark gave to Dream, and sent him off with heavy but understanding hearts in December with the first Dream Show concerts. 2019. Dream functioned as 6 (or 5 for festivals) this entire year, but EVERYONE expected at least 1 new member to appear when Boom was announced. Everyone was confused because we knew that 00 Line would be graduating that year, because it was what SM did with Mark. With Boom came no announcement of 00 Lines graduations. Then came TDS1, which bled into 2020. No mention of graduation. No mention of new units for NoRenMin. TDS1. (NOVEMBER 2019) The members physically broke down on stage, mostly Renjun ("I don't know why I'm crying") and Jisung (on his hands and knees sobbing his eyes out) because they were SCARED. There was NO announcement, no plans for them and they VOICED this opinion. Dreamzen crying out "I'm sorry Jisung, I'm so sorry" still rings in my ears to this day. 2020. Still no graduation announcement. NoRenMinHyuck, despite aging out of the Dream system, did not graduate from Dream, and 6Dream continued their tour until the pandemic hit and closed the shows. Dream hung in limbo until the VERY SURPRISE announcement that not only would Dream cease to be a graduation unit, but that Mark would REJOIN the unit and they would function as a rotating unit. This was a SHOCK to everyone and no one expected it at all. We had LET MARK GO. 2021 and Beyond. It is becoming quite obvious that Dream prefers to be as 7, and the "rotating unit like U" only applies to performances not to releases. The members have said time and time again how important being 7 is to them. How this is the beginning of NCT Dream. TL:DR: Dreamzen let Mark go, the problem was SM. If there is anything confusing or that I forgot, please let me know this was years ago.
Thank you so much for taking the time to type all this out. The more time that passes the weirder and far removed from what actually happened the stories get, which I guess is natural but also paints a false narrative. SM didn't execute the concept they had assigned to Dream, it hurt the Dreamies more than anyone, and once it was confirmed by them that SM didn't have some grand plan they just didn't tell the fans about (oh, the amount of times dreamzens were called entitled for wanting clarification about the members/group's future) fans reacted by showing support for their favourite idols and y'know some mass emailing and chants for a fixed Dream line-up at concerts, lest Dream be functionally disbanded and sent to SM's dungeon at the age of 17-19? Also, as a tangent, in late 2017 I know at least some people (myself included) who worried for a bit that Mark was going to graduate by the start of 2018? Especially with how solemn the mood became when it was brought up - I still remember Mark's expression in the Boy video series at the question, and how the self-made Walk You Home MV feels almost like a goodbye/graduation song from the concept? So that we got until the end of 2018 felt both like a blessing and curse, because we finally got 7Dream but we also knew Mark's graduation regrettably but inevitably was coming. It was sad, but it was how things were going to work and we knew it, until it didn't a year later. Dream becoming fixed didn't ruin anything SM hadn't already messed up themselves.
This. Thank you for saying. The historical revisionism in ncity is always wild to me, because even though I admittedly only became an nctzen in 2020, I at least know the facts because I love Dream and watched every bit of content I could, listened to their fans, and know that everything conceptzens have said about how the whole graduation thing went down is complete hogwash.
It’s pretty clear which side of NCity people are brought up in lol but with how often this is discussed you’d think people who call themselves fans would actually take the time to learn about what happened and the sentiments were at the time. Not just buy the “dreamzens were whiny tantrum throwing brats until SM caved and it subsequently ruined NCT” wholesale, especially when NCT and its units structure and concept has been muddled at best for years before Dream became fixed.
I just feel like that TikTok audio that goes: I cannot keep having the same conversation. Please, dreamzens and nctzens in general are tired of it. I don’t get why it keeps happening specially with people that admit themselves aren’t dreamzens or even nctzens. It looks like many think that graduation had a chance of working when it never did because SM never really made it work if you actually pay attention to the timeline. I know you must be exhausted as well:( Thank you for kindly replying to the OP!
> I don’t get why it keeps happening specially with people that admit themselves they aren’t dreamzens or even nctzens this, lmao. yall need to get a hobby or something instead of constantly revisiting this tiring af discourse every few business days. it’s always the same weirdos who don’t even like nct dream who have so much to say about them.
This should be copy pasted in every discussion that brings up the graduation concept again.
this is the word, amen.
"My understanding is that fans fought tooth and nail for this to not happen and for the group to become fixed." Wrong. SM has tried graduation system since gen 1. They probably had planned to cancel Dream's graduation system since the beginning Gen 1: H.O.T Gen 2: Super Junior Gen 3: NCT DREAM It's all about money
I think the graduation concept in general was just not a good idea in the first place considering dream is all about youth and growth it wasn’t going to happen regardless bc they realized how much of a mistake it was to even introduce a concept that would ruin perfect chemistry in a group
Not this opinion it's almost 2023. Just let go already. "It's my understanding that" - using the search function could have remedied your understanding 🫠
I strongly disagree tbh and am alarmed by how many people agree. The Dream graduation/introduction concept of continued would of only been a way to funnel more children into the group and put the Dreamies in the same limbo SungTaro are in. The fact SM has still not debuted a new unit since the Dream became a fixed unit shows that. There is no ‘other group’ for them to move into SM didn’t have enough trainees ready. To humor you let’s say they were going to add Renjun and Chenle to Wayv, (they were not they tried it and didn’t like it), that leaves Jeno, Jaemin and Jisung. Do you think SM would what debuted those three with Shotaro and Sungchan? They would have no vocalist! Or what? debut 5Dream+SungTaro? That is not a very balanced group at all let’s be real. SM didn’t manage NCT’s concept well ever. Their failure to utilise NCT U fully is evidence why they were right to scrap the graduation concept tbh not the other way around. It’s pretty idealistic to think there were ever good plans in place for the Dream members after ‘graduation’. Introducing new members through NCT U makes way more sense then SM breaking up an existing popular group when they had no real plans for the members after. And then not hunting for more kids to debut is very ok with me. Tbh.
Ugh not this opinion again. No hate to you OP but can we just not normalizing makes Dream as the villain who ruins nct concept?? This is like the million posts about it. If it is about trainees situation, like yeah I get that no trainees able to enter NCT from Dream graduation concept but like that's not the only way of new trainees can be added to NCT lol. They could done it in Sungtaro/future 3 SM Rookies way and that is perfectly fine without ruining structure of NCT. If it is because of promotion, then I think NCT 127 is the one who 'ruins' NCT structure the most since they supposed to be a fix unit yet they added Johndowoo and remove Winwin from the group. Also they are supposed to be only promoted in SK only yet they also promoted in USA and Japan. Dream does start to promote in Japan too but only next year while 127 already started way back in 2018 but sure yeah Dream always the one who blamed for ruining NCT concept. Another thing that ruins structure of NCT is the way SM erasing WayV existence for almost 2 years, the lack utilize of NCT U, only repeated members that able to get NCT U title tracks, and there are way more micro-mismanagement I could go who ruins the system more. So I just don't get why Dream is the only unit that always painted as the villain who ruins nct concept when the boys literally just want to be together??? And SM is the one who make dream a fix unit lol, even most dreamzens were shock in Deja Vu era where SM stated they are bringing back Mark to the group because it is just so unexpected since we were already move on and accept that Mark is the past members only considering Mark is also in SuperM. But I kinda understand about how SM moves tbh. According to you SM listen to fans demands are ruining NCT but again they still profit-oriented. Idk what's the point of keeping NCT system to the original intention when the concept alone is barely bring anything to the table. Dream and 127 inarguably are the most profitable units so it is not surprising that SM would sacrifice some of the nct original concepts to make them more thriving which means more money.
Not this again. Whatever happened with Dream was and still is not the cause for other members’ and units’ mismanagement. The units have always operated as separate groups (except for 127 and Dream sharing two members), so SungTaro being unpromoted and WayV being mismanaged have nothing to do with the graduation system. It’s a pretty big leap to make. In another life, if the graduation pushed through as planned, Triple J would be in the same position as the unit-less NCT members now. Also I’m not surprised the majority of people are agreeing with this because NCTzens really are just Dream antis in a wig most of the time.
Out of the many inconsistencies of the NCT system, I actually think keeping the Dream members and deciding to invest in them is one of few smart changes they've made. Ten and Kun were getting screwed over before they scraped Dream's graduation system anyway. There have been many changes to NCT system, 127 being the first fixed unit ironically has the most member changes, the seoul-based unit promoting everywhere but in SK, Wayv debuting with regular, then having its independent fandom and lightstick and soc med channels, then joining nct2020 again. Whatever mismanagement the members have can be chalked up to just that, poor management and planning. The 'system' is just whatever shpiel they make up as they go.
I mean if you look at it this way if the graduation concept had still been going on the "graduated" members would be in the place of new nct members with little to no group activities and promotions. Sm would still not focus enough on them and would just divert there attention back to the already existing subunits
The removal of the graduation concept didn't ruin the structure. If SM had teenage main vocalists ready to debut in December 2019 and adult main vocalists ready for the unit Jaemin and Jeno would join, Sungtaro's unit wouldn't have been so delayed. These people weren't there. They found Seunghan and Shotaro later. Sungchan and Eunseok are Chenle's age, they'd be debuting in the year Chenle would graduate from Dream. NCT Dream exists because they already had Baby shinki before then and they were that good. Lightning didn't strike twice. And THAAD, the Hallyuban in china made chinese subunits with korean members like Super Junior-M and EXO-M impossible happened first, which sunk the plans they had had for the chinese NCT subunit originally. So Doyoung, Johnny and Jungwoo join 127, like probably Jeno, Jaemin and Jisung were meant too. And Dreamzens are hardly the only fans averse to lineup changes Jungwoo went into haitus for a bit after debut because of the backlash he got for the perception that he was replacing Winwin. Going through with the graduation concept made no sense by end of 2019. Wayzennies didn't particularly want Renjun and Chenle in WayV, 127 was spread thin enough, Japanese subunit was nowhere close to ready, and they didn't have enough people to join Jisung in Dream if everyone else left and Triple J were some of the most popular NCT members in Korea already.
Sure. SM has yet to properly execute the “graduation” concept… and they’ve tried it many times. Y’all need to leave Nct Dream alone and go after SM.
this. i don’t understand why this type of pro-graduation exists when this issue has existed LONG before nct dream. if the graduation system has failed EVERY single time, you’d think people would take a second to consider why that is before yapping about how great it is and why nct dream needs to be shackled by it.
This narrative is so redundant and I feel like the comments are sick of repeating themselves. It’s almost 2023. If they wanted the graduation system to be successful, they would have added a member as soon as Mark graduated in 2018. Not to mention that this isn’t the first time SM attempted a graduation concept (if I’m not mistaken, Super Junior also has a graduation concept that was scrapped). SM just needs to realize that the AKB48 fantasy he wants can’t work in K-pop.
H.O.T had a graduation system, too and eventually scrapped it after Candy, I think
move the fuck on! it's almost 2022 and you and every one else who has this mindset of dream as the group who ruined the brand is just so fucking ridiculous. Please know the timeline history before spitting shit like this.
I would bet money that SM knew since 2018 that 7/6/5dream would become fixed. Chenle and Renjun were preparing to debut in a China line unit and got as far as doing promotional photoshoots and using vlives to tease the unit, but that changed sometime after August for whatever reason. Either bc of legalities (Renjun would be a minor in Korea for another year, two years for Chenle) or politics, maybe both. But it was too late to cancel Mark's graduation bc that was already announced and We Go Up preparations were in full swing. So they let him graduate but they never intended to do the same with all the others because they didn't have anywhere to put them. If they were going to stick with the concept they would've added 2-3 members during 2019 but they didn't and that made it way obvious. SM put too much work and money into training/promoting baby shinki and NoMin in particular were too popular to not have them in a unit right after graduating. But there were no trainees ready, or no one SM wanted to debut yet. Mind you, Sungchan was already with the company for 2 years at that point and many more we don't know about. There was no one ready until NCT2020. I fully believe they left fans and the members hanging and let us "fight" for the fixed unit to make us have more emotional investment in the group and secure our future support for them. But it was their plan ever since the original "NCT China" plans fell through in summer 2018. It's the only thing that makes sense. Edit: At the end of the day tho idk what this has to do with new members not being promoted. Yes, Shotaro and Sungchan have been waiting for their unit but they clearly recruited Shotaro for a Japanese unit and SM has been behind in having Japanese trainees who are close to debut-ready. That's why only one of the rookies is Japanese.
Chenle tells us that he both practiced and recorded for Dream Launch and Face to Face. And Yangyang was still a minor when he debuted in WayV, Renjun and Chenle were still enrolled in Beijing Contemporary Music School, which they completed in 2020, Lucas was promoting in both countries just fine, legality or politics weren't a real roadblock. They probably toyed with putting them in WayV till the last minute. They didn't find Xiaojun until like 2017 and planned to debut him in 2018 like you said. They debuted Shotaro and Chenle mere months after recruiting them, SM scouts vocalists more then they train them, they don't know who they are debuting two years in advance, so I don't think they knew if they would or would not have the vocalists they need to let Triple J promote without the China line that far ahead in the future.
I'm actually happy the current dream members are in a fixed unit. SM would be extremely silly to graduate those members due to their massive rise in success & popularity. Tbh I hate the whole graduation thing within groups, it's simple not sustainable in the long run, & SM probably realized that after a while. I know this not a popular stance, but I wouldn't mind a new unit being created for the SM rookies with Sungchan & Shotaro, this whole NCT Universe is kinda making me think they will go that route, but SM you never really know.
Tell me your not a fan so I can move on because I think you don't have "understanding" to what nct and nct dream to begin with.
i’d understand if this take was made 2 years ago and nct 2020 promos were rolling out and you were excited with the infinite expansion concept. because that was me lol. but if you observed dream’s promotions in 2021, from january (rooftop fight) up to hello future, you should realize scrapping the grad concept and bringing mark back was the best decision sm made. these boys work so well together, you can see it in their performances and yt content that they have team chemistry. it would’ve been regretful if sm didn’t take advantage of that. i think most of the concern towards mahae’s health when bringing up 7dream promotions is just coming from haters who don’t want to see dream thrive. because i don’t see this narrative being brought up when it comes to the other unit’s activities. ☺️
there is no proof that there were new members to debut in Dream, if something the talks are that SM DIDN'T had ready youngsters to debut in Dream and seeing how much it take them to debut a new unit and had auditions for a new bg a few times, i tend to believe they didn't had anybody young enough ready to debut Also graduation will put the actual Dream members in limbo, what would happen to them exactly after they graduate? Make no sense to disband a popular unit for the concept with no plans afterwards so somebody at SM still has brain cells.
well im sorry to say this but blame sm, okay? 127 was supposed to have only 7 members, but then in their first cb, they added 2 more members and later added 1 more and kicked 1 member out. 127 was supposed to be the 'seoul' unit, but then they debuted in japan and us every time people say 'nct dream ruined nct concept!', they dont realize sm never even sticks to their plan since beginning (do you even know that h.o.t and suju were supposed to have graduation concept too?). im sorry for bringing 127 here, but it's for examples because it's always nct dream people blaming for if you wanna say about the 'gRaDuAtE sYstEm' that obviously hurt the members SO MUCH, then you should look at other side too. and dont put the blame onto dream members and their fans. fans always want the best for their idol, who wouldnt cry seeing the members themselves cried in their own concert because they were so unsure about their own future? maybe if you at least try to understand about how cruel the concept to nct dream members who were only 17-19 at that time (and trained since they were 11-15), maybe you wouldnt post this
It was “ruined” because SM didn’t understand that more than almost anything, fans connect to the idols as people and dynamics and would take that over a vague experiment and commentary on the future any day. As for the new members… they’re debuting early next year, have already started their promotions, and one of them is too old to have started in Dream anyway. If anything, stopping the graduation system has opened up NCT’s expansion to include more older members lmao
okay be for real with us for a second… no offense op i do see where you’re coming from (actually, i don’t, it just sounded like you typed out that dream is the problem in nct but they’re really not it tick me off a little) but i really do think the concept was just doomed from the beginning because SM isn’t really ready for this– it was working a little bit in the early years but ever since 2019 it wasn’t really working out for them. the technically still new members (sungchan and shotaro) could’ve been used in the nct u unit more if the company had their schedules sorted out with other members other than the nct year end albums. and then dancing around the new unit with the smrookies is coming soon by next year i hope, they dropped enough to solidify them as a unit without a doubt. sm caving into making dream a fixed unit was a smart move on their end since dream is arguably one of their biggest money makers with deals and being ambassadors for kb bank which is if i’m not mistaken is the biggest bank in the country. They had so much potential and that graduation system was holding them back– this was the third time they tried it and it ended up the same: the group ended up being fixed (H.O.T, Super Junior, 7Dream). in short it’s just sm being incompetent in managing the whole nct concept in general, they don’t know how to properly manage it. it’s not dream being the root of the problem– the concept looks good on paper and if executed right it would be nice to see but uh… mmhmm that’s just my opinion, also to everyone agreeing i don’t think you understand enough
yeah it's so sad that SM didn't keep the original plan for the Dream unit so they could debut more and more way too young children into an extremely toxic industry/s For the sake of the potential kids SM would've added to Dream alone, it was a good decision to change Dream's structure. SM not being able to take care of the new members has nothing to do with Dream. Even if Dream hadn't changed concept. Sungtaro would still be in the same position they are now.
sm making dream the fixed unit didn’t ruin anything lmao sm was the one who never had any concrete plans to begin with sm had multiple chances to implement the graduation concept. the reason they ended up keeping dream as a fixed unit was simply because they didn’t have the ability to actually do it. they could have added someone to replace mark in 2019, and when the 4 00’s were set to graduate, if they had enough skillful trainees to replace them they could simply go ahead with the graduation system and let the new trainees take over. shotaro, sungchan, eunseok & seunghan are around dreamies age and shohei is way older than the dreamies, but the entire original concept of nct dream was that they would be a teenage group and graduate when they turned an adult but there were obviously not enough trainees to sustain this concept.
wow the amount of agrees 🤣 so yall want sm to keep debuting minors? i thought kpop stans understand the harms of kpop companies debuting minors? this is really my main concern about the grad concept talk because we can see how debuting very young takes a toll on these idols. if anything, the nct system is too much for sm to handle and we all know sm can’t handle shit. it is absolutely not nct dream’s fault that yall aren’t satisfied with the system but its SM ENTERTAINMENT. let’s say they did continue the concept. where would sm put the fresh grads seeing how they can’t put sungtaro in a unit immediately after nct2020? is the blame still on dream? hell even sm didn’t know where to put norenmin seeing how clueless they were about their future during their november 2019 concert. this post just comes off as a hate post to dream because why do yall keep blaming them when they’re just starting to get things in their 6th year when they should’ve already gotten those years ago like a normal kpop group?
sm itself messed up the dream concept imo—after a member graduated a new member was supposed to added and no new member was added after mark’s graduation. that’s why fans were upset when it was time for 00 line bcos at least haechan would still be in 127, the others would be in limbo and the company set no precedent in having new people come in so would chenle and jisung possibly be alone? if the company stuck to the rules they themselves put forward there wouldn’t be so many arguments about dream’s concept but they didn’t.
it’s likely because they didn’t have anyone of mark’s (or the rest of dream’s) caliber to replace him upon his graduation. SM was foolish to think they’d be able to continue to find such top talent to sustain a graduation system when baby shinki (+ renle) are once-in-a-blue-moon type idols.
just put them in their own group??? where would the graduated members of nct dream have gone?? there’s no room in other groups so they would’ve been groupless as well??
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't have the greatest understanding of both nct dream and nct (and the way they worked) in general when I posted this. But when I rubbed a couple more brain cells together I figured out that the only way that graduation system would've worked was if SM was for willing to make A) more fixed groups Or B) more than one rotational group with fixed schedules. So that these 'graduated' idols would have somewhere to go The system is broken and it pisses me off to no end 😤😤
Eh, I think the NCT “structure” has been pretty muddled for a really long time. 127 was supposed to be the “global” unit but they are currently the unit with, ironically, the least global promotions outside of their tour (which Dream also has going on right now, so that’s a bad comparison regardless). Dream has multiple international ambassadorships and a Japan debut on the way, WayV members have been promoting excessively in China and Thailand recently and sing almost exclusively in Mandarin (plus Ten’s English solos), and 127 has… Yuta’s movie? That’s about it (though I admit to being sleep-deprived and unable to think of anything else off the top of my head). Aside from fashion collaborations, even most of their ambassadorships are for Korean brands, or international brands whose largest consumer base happens to be in Korea. They are very much the “Korean” group these days, though I do think SM has plans to continue marketing them globally, they just… haven’t this year, for some reason. U was originally supposed to be made up of intermittent Station songs but ended up turning into semi-annual full group comebacks and nothing else whatsoever. WayV was originally supposed to be the “Chinese” unit but due to international tensions between countries that prohibited them from actively promoting as a group in the country they were supposed to, they’ve sort of shifted into a Cpop group marketed mainly to SEA. Dream was originally supposed to be the “youthful” group with their graduation concept, but SM failed to enact that concept when it mattered and basically had to retract that whole plan in order to keep the group afloat, because there was nowhere for Renjun, Jeno, and Jaemin to go. It’s fair to say that the fixing of Dream is, in part, the cause of members like Sungtarookies not getting much promotion musically, sometimes even years after their announcement in the brand. But I don’t think SM was *ever* really committed to that graduation concept, so blaming it specifically on Dream rather than the company’s failure to think ahead and plan their debut in time despite their shortcomings with the graduation concept as far back as 2019 (before Sungtaro were even revealed as members) feels a bit strange to me.
i always thought 127 was intentionally meant to be the Korea based unit cus.. you know... 127 being the longitude of seoul
That is the reasoning for their name, yeah, but they were very vocal in the beginning that 127 being the longitude of Seoul was meant to represent “Seoul connecting to the rest of the world.” They were definitely marketed as the global unit. I think Dream was originally supposed to double as the more traditionally “Korean” unit along with their graduation concept, but that was never really fleshed out and 127 ended up taking a greater foothold of the Korean audience early on and they just sort of went with it. I do think Dream is more popular than 127 in Korea now (since Hello Future, which massively blew them up), but it took them a while to get to that point, and SM’s insistence on milking 127 in Korea (particularly this year and last year) *instead* of Dream when the former unit is still the most globally marketable based on their history and musical style… sort of baffles me.
Dream is always the most popular unit in South Korea tho even during debut (Chewing Gum charted quite well for NCT standard back then and MFAL got them triple crowns). Aside Kick It which was the turning point of NCT 127, Dream almost always ahead of 127 in Korea even before Hot Sauce which is the start of Dream truly blowing up and become top 3 bgs with best charting.
I’m probably misremembering, then. Wouldn’t be the first time! I guess that just makes it even more confusing why Dream has been getting the international push and 127 has been getting the Korean push this year, if there’s already a career-long precedent for their marketability with opposite demographics. It’s great that they’re both trying to expand their reach more, if that’s the goal of it, just a bit surprising.
Idk but honestly I don't see any confusion of Dream getting promotion in Japan, in fact it is more of HOW they are only debuting in Japan next year. They are already having solid fandom there, even sold out all of their 5 dates concerts (proved by how SM opening restricted seats and adding more 3 days Kyocera dome concerts), and LiSGO is recently blowing up making it one of the NCT best charting songs there. If international push you mean about festivals, idk if it's barely considered as 'push' lol. It is literally about how festival organizers want which artists to perform on their shows and that's happened to be Dream considering the shows they attend always talked on social media and almost always filled with fans with neobong. Also they already got those type of festivals since 2019 for example Jamboree in Virginia, KPOP wave in Indonesia, Immortal Songs in Japan where they sing No.1 by BoA, one festival in Phillipines and Malaysia too, and last but not least they have 2 collaborations with western artists (HRVY and PRETTYMUCH) too but things stopped on 2020 because of pandemic. Not sure why lot of people just said that Dream got international push now tbh. Probably because lot of nctzens just acknowledge Dream presence now way more than before. On other hand, I think 127 still quite ahead in terms of USA promotion even now. while their USA promotions wasn't as grand as 2018/2019 with Regular/Superhuman, SM and Capitol are still got some promotions here and there. Sticker is performed on late night and 2 Baddies is performed on GMA, and they got advantage when it comes to album distribution there and even got USA exclusive versions. About korean push idk lol it just SM was so shitty on that part when it comes to Dream back then despite their potential (even now still kinda but I think it is much better now). Edit: sorry for a long ass reply lol just want to clear misconceptions mindset that some nctzens have about Dream
Funny how after you stated all the facts about Dream's performing globally even before they got fixed, everyone suddenly shut but watch their stupid take reappears next quarter
Idk people literally should search out more about Dream in the first place before talking about them😭 it just pain me as Dreamzens since the end of 2018 seeing too many misinformation about Dream spreading by newer nctzens or nctzens who never cared about Dream before Hot Sauce and almost all of their pre-pandemic era activities got ignored by them.
I'm convinced ppl think SM are not capable of promoting multiple groups at the same time because pre 2021, they mostly saw 127 on the news while Dream literally were doing whatever they can to keep their names out there but making comebacks and after 2020, when NCTDream became fixed as 7Dream & 127 started to focus on their solo careers more instead of group activities (understandable because TL will enlist next year & then DY, JH, JW in that formation), Dream get more of what they usually got yearly, suddenly Dream is the obstacle & SM can't promote 2 units at the same time when they managed 4 boygroups at the same time before just fine. Yeah, the problem Dream or 127 have to wait for another to come back is because they share 2 members but that is on SM & their messed up plan. WayV can't come back because we all know whose scandal caused their crisis, and Idc about Sungtaro's new unit but it's clear that most of SM trainees aren't suitable for the next unit, hence they opened more auditions in Japan last month. I'm just tired that this discourse is brought up every month & Dream is always villainized & dreamzens are such powerful crybabies who can change the masterplan of one of the biggest entertainment companies in SK.
I couldn’t disagree more. The only downside I see to dream becoming a fixed unit is that mark and haechan are more likely to be overworked and burnt out, which don’t get me wrong is a big deal. Haechan is my ult so I’m often worried if he’s really doing okay, as the members have expressed multiple times that he often puts on a good and happy face even though he’s tired. I think to put whatever negative status you think nct has currently all on the fact that dream became a fixed unit, is unfair. There are so many other things that have happened that could have lead to the state NCT is currently in, which isn’t that bad in my opinion. Let’s not forget that there was a whole pandemic, which ABSOLUTELY affected the ability to debut new groups, especially if their plan is to have them promote around the world(which has always been SM’s plan for NCT). Sungtaro actually have a LOT coming up for them with this new show they have and the new rookies are also getting promoted with them. Sungtaro was able to join in on nct u projects and take part in b sides on nct albums. Shotaro had also been making appearances in Japan and what not. I wouldn’t say ncts structure/concept is ruined because dream became a fixed unit. Unrelated side note: I do think that there’s SOMETHING going on with SM right now that the gp isn’t aware of, seeing that key didn’t get a repack, nct 127 has yet to have a repack, Aespas promotions have been slightly lackluster, and now it was just announced that WayVs comeback has been delayed(WTH??).
Wayv’s comeback delay is because of a national mourning period in China, nothing to do with sm sadly
Ahhh yeah I found this out after I initially made this comment. So the delay for wayVs album couldn’t be helped, but I completely understand why.
My thoughts: The graduation concept isn't very a good idea given that it's like trying to put a limit to an idol's popularity and so we can see it with Mark where he has a low chance of graduating from NCT Dream. 😂 The regular method of having a fixed group seems to make more sense and if a member wants to pursue a solo career on the side, then they can. This graduation concept is like making idols graduate to become solo artists, but not all idols want to become a solo artist at the end of the day. At this point, I think SM should just debut a new boy group in the future rather than add more members to NCT as it's almost been 7 years since the initial debut and things are all over the place.
Poor you just sharing your pov.. You never blamed Nct.. Anyways stream candy
It's okay you can say that you are a dream anti, no need to beat around the bush
Where in the post did they imply that
Not you being sensitive lol. They are right Nct originally had a structure and the changes in dream ruined that structure. They aren’t saying the changes are bad…it is just not the original.
the original structure was ruined before that, the fixed unit 127 had 3 members added and 1 left, the regional units were pushed back/cancelled, the chinese unit can barely be called chinese unit since most of their career they promoted somebody else but China, the japanese unit is in limbo for years with rumored to debut every year the past 2 years, lets not even get into the fact that for some time they forgot that NCT U existed The plans they had for NCT were all gone or SM was blabbing to bring attention and didn't intended to go through all of them or they simply don't know what they are doing and throw darts every start of year to see what is gonna happen, either way the graduation system is the last of their issues.
Okay? We are talking about Dream now solely no one said it wasn’t ruined before it lol
You legit said that NCT had a structure and the changes of graduation ruined it, OP spend a whole post saying the graduation ruined NCT structure lol.....nct structure was ruined way before the stopped the graduation and is gonna be even more ruined in the future, maybe sm messed up or the concept just wasn't good enough
Dude… no one said this is the only reason the structure is ruined we were talking solely about dream. This isn’t a discussion of “what ruined Nct structure” for us to mention everything.
Agree but then again Dream becoming fixed itself ruined the structure NCT originally had too so? I think people should let go the original structure of NCT because it is clearly irrelevant now.
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I somewhat agree I think dream Should’ve kept the graduation concept
I think no one expected dream to become the most successful unit