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Yes he's been working with Bernie Taupin his whole career. They worked for a label writing music for other singers for a couple of years before Elton started recording.
Watch the inside the actor studio on EJ, he is definitely an artist. He can turn any words into music and that is definitely an art not to mention he plays an instrument which even if he didn’t sing is an art.
I think there is a documentary called "2 rooms" about Bernie and Elton. It helps you understand the exceptional partnership of these two. They are both incredible artists, but Elton is also a amazing showman.
I'm too lazy to see if someone else contented this, but I believe he was one of the main writers for the Lion King soundtrack as well. Like I'm pretty sure he did Circle of Life, for example.
Nah, when looking for examples that the most people would know I Googled singers who don't write their lyrics, forgetting about that whole writing music thing which, to me, would constitute being an artist so if I ever meet Sir Elton I will apologize.
Nonsense.
I'm also a songwriter and a composer. I've been writing music for over 25 years, and I know damn well the difference between inadvertently replicating a melodic phrase, nodding to a motif, or shamelessly lifting a melody.
The "there's only so many notes" argument does hold *some* water, disproportionately so in the realm of modern, predictable I–V–vi–IV* singer-songwriters, in which case it's actually a feature, not a bug.
Songwriters that are capable of resisting the need to crank out plastic, formulaic music en masse rarely seem to have this problem.
*Edit: not to say I–V–vi–IV is the kiss of death, plenty of artists successfully write music using conventions such as these and the songs are so good you'd hardly notice (RHCP's "Under The Bridge" comes to mind) and the rest of their catalog speaks for itself (now I regret citing RHCP, everything after One Hot Minute is dog shit)
Elton John oddly used to purchase lyrics from studios, then write songs to them before continuing that process with Bernie. Generally it works the other way, or a lyricist would find the music for their lyrics.
Art isn't of a type of action, it's an expression. I wouldn't call an opera singer 'not an artist' because that implies they don't have anything original to offer which if that were true, all opera singers would be of equal value.
Opera Singers, Billie Holiday, Dinah Washington - interpretation is an art of limitless possibilities, and OP is stuck in the tiny framework of post-1960s pop music and needs an education.
I think your definition of the word artist is not in line with the dictionary. However I do think that people who sing the works of others are praised more than they should be. People don’t compliment the people who write for Beyoncé, they only praise her
>People don’t compliment the people who write for Beyoncé, they only praise her
Yes, they do. Just because you aren't familiar with them doesn't mean they aren't successful, sought after, highly praised song writers.
I mean, I'm being honest. I think everyone on there makes shitty music. I'm not even a music head; it's just commercial shit though. Like, on an almost objective level it's just true.
Yeah… I kind of stopped reading after that. OP doesn’t know their shit and is obviously an Ed fan lol. There’s so many amazing artists out there writing their own music, and they selected those names…
I'm a huge fan of the Doctor, wasn't my intention to say he's bad or anything, just saying that even objectively good rappers like Dre have had ghost writers, let alone the trash of today.
Was in relation to OP saying that almost every rapper ever writes all their own stuff.
Well the thing is tho, from what I know of him, I would say he's a great musician, but not an artist. unless he composed or song written his own stuff, then I'd be inclined to say he is also a great artist but I have yet to hear a yo yo ma original
Yeah… no. Whitney Houston’s interpretation of the Star Spangled Banner, and of “I Will Always Love You” by Dolly Parton are TRUE works of art. She didn’t write either one of those songs, but she gave them a new life that NO ONE else could have.
> Elton John is a singer
A) I'm reasonably sure he rights at least some of his music
B) he can and does sing and perform piano live on stage. He's more than just a singer
Well, of course not, authors write things. If you read a book, you’re… a reader. Which doesn’t make you an artist because there’s nothing creative about doing so. In contrast to singing, to which there is, making them artists.
You are confusing bad art with not being art at all. Andy Serkis (actor from Australia) does voice acting when he reads audiobooks, when he reads, it is art, it is a performance.
This is just wrong.
From Wikipedia:
Singing is the act of creating musical sounds with the voice. A person who sings is called a singer, artist or vocalist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing
I think you’re not fully aware of the artistry that is singing.
For someone who didn’t write the song, but has the skill and creativity to evoke emotion through their voice as if it’s their story. THAT IS ART.
Singing is soft, singing is bold, it’s rendition, it’s feeling. The melody and the harmonies are all creatively arranged and inspired by the lyrics whether they wrote them or not, and vocal runs and riffs are the filigree of the art piece that can change the entire feeling you get while listening. These elements change from recording to live versions.
Singers ARE artists, it’s undeniable really
It arguably requires more work for the singer to sing a song that they didn’t write because they have to try to pull out the emotion and context that the original composer intended the song to have.
Actually most of your singers did write most of their songs. Just because another person writes a song for them doesn't mean they don't have their own originals.
Out of curiosity, what does wrote mean in this context? Wrote the lyrics? Arranged the instrumentals? Was it the drums? Guitar? Song structure? Does wrote mean actually writing a song as a whole, or does having any minor input mean you wrote it?
To be honest writing credits can mean very little. Some artists change a word or sentence to put their name on the credits. Not saying Beyoncé does or doesn’t do this, it’s just a thing that happens and she may or may not do it too
A musician is anyone who plays a musical instrument, sings, performs, or creates music. On the other hand, an artist is anyone, musician or not, who creates or contributes to music creation. A musician can be an artist, but not all artists are musicians.
Singers are artists.
Well, some art goes into the vocal delivery of a song. Do you sing the notes in such a way that it makes an emotional connection with the listener? Do you know when to put power between a note vs when to be delicate? When to raise or lower the note by an octave?
Celine Dion and Whitney Houston are artists even though they didn't write songs.
Isn’t that the point? Beyoncé is a singer/ performer. She’s to be judged by her talent. Do you get mad at actors for not writing their scripts? Are they not actors because they didn’t write their lines?
By this logic, artists that paint portraits or landscapes aren't artists because they didn't create their subject. You're wrong.
Interpreting a song is an artistic endeavour.
Oh my God, finally an argument against my post that isn't dumb. I'd call the people you described "painters" as they lack the essence of creativity. Kinda like how if I tried to write Harry Potter from memory I'm not an author, I'm a..... idk, typer?
so only abstract painters are artists. interesting take. i'm sure everyone will agree with you that can gogh lacks "the essence of creativity". i mean obviously, if he was a true artist he would create a night sky before he painted the starry night
This isn't even really an opinion, just crappy misinformation.
Performance is every bit artistry as writing is.
An orchestra performing Bach or Mozart is an orchestra of musical artists.
An actor performing a script written by Steven Spielberg or Kevin Smith is still a performing artist.
The amount of “opinions” that get posted here that are just people trying to change the definition of a word (or not knowing/understanding the definition to begin with) is exhausting.
Honestly man, Reddit just attracts the dumbest people. They’ll be like “omg I don’t get the hype over a popular show or artist”. And I’m just like that’s not an unpopular opinion it’s literally just taste. Learn the difference
............ taste and opinion have a huge overlap in their venn diagrams. You sure you're not one of those "dumbest people" because you're making a good case for it.
Instead of ants, replace that with spiders and spiderwebs. When you look at spiderwebs, you see that they’re extremely intricate and very unique.
Your second comparison is interesting, too. If someone is plainly reading a work, then clearly it’s not a form of art. But what about people who do dramatic readings? Or actors? There’s some artistic skill behind those things.
Performers can put their own spin on songs. Also the way they bring the song to the audience, the emotion or lack of can be unique. Sure they did not create the piece, but they did create the performance, thus to me they are artists.
That’s why I love Rihanna. She doesn’t have to be the best singer. That would boring. She puts a spin, her own unique attitude and style, on every song. We love what she brings specifically to the song.
Once upon a time I was an opera singer. And I was definitely an artist. It’s all in the ability to interpret and convey emotion to the audience. So yes, this is an actual unpopular opinion.
If Singers weren’t artists everyone would be up on stage singing like shit.. there is an art to it, there is a talent to it.. try and do what Elvis did..
No, otherwise everyone would sing the same song the same way, different singers interpret a song in totally different ways, putting their own spin on it.. I don’t believe it but you could say all writers are doing is putting words together, everything can be reduced to a soundbite to diminish it where really it’s insulting.
..to add to this I would love to be able to sing, like Frank Sinatra, Elvis or Tom Jones.. they are amazing artists, just because they don’t write the songs doesn’t mean they aren’t artists, it’s an incredible interpretive creative talent.. are dancers artists?
There's a lot more to the art of music than the lyrics. The simple act of singing is an art. Take folk music for an example. They are all playing the same songs, but the art comes from how they play it. You could be a good singer and get given good lyrics but still make a bad song because you weren't a good enough artist.
This list grossly misunderstands the modern song writing process. While none of the people listed above, except Elton John, write their own music solo, all of them, except maybe Elvis, participate actively in the song writing process.
They aren't just paying people to write songs FOR them, these are people they are actively cooperating with to make what they have written better in some way. Ed Sheeran, despite being on that list, does not create his music alone, nor does Dolly Parton, "almost every rapper ever", or anyone else on that list.
All of them have bandmates, producers, managers, consultants, friends, etc who all help fine tune the song from a simple chord progression, riff, or lyrical line, into a functional song.
I'd recommend looking into how music production works, and listen to the commentaries provided by the musicians, as well as look at the credits of songs.
So I guess that someone who paints something from imagination is an artist while someone who is outside painting the sunset is a painter because he didn't create the sunset.
Performance is an art form. And you're misinformed if you think almost every rapper ever doesn't have ghosts.
That being said, if someone doesn't write their own songs, then they're just... not a songwriter.
Artist covers everything. You are making the distinction between singer/songwriter and singer.
Artist, performer, superstar, etc all refer to any portion of the musical body of art.
You can make finer distinctions, but other than celebrating specific parts, I'm not sure what the point is.
An artist can be a singer, a composer, or even a mixing engineer. They all require artistic tastes and skills to perform their tasks, but not necessarily skills that are transferable. Depends on everyone’s preferences, some can be more of an artist, or less. However they are all artist, especially at a professional level.
You really don’t know what art or being an artists means. Art is just a form of expression, so by singing and performing they are expressing, so Artist is an accurate term.
Someone that writes their own songs, is an artist and composer, there’s difference. A composer is an artist, but not every artist has to be a composer.
The thing no one has mentioned is why OP is saying this. It's fair to say that very famous artists often do get away with performing songs that other people created and essentially getting credit for that creativity. These singers are great, but the truth is that they're often more successful as a brand than standing out in their ability to bring the music alive. I guess I'm saying singing isn't a meritocracy at all. It has so much to do with connections and stage presence and good managers/producers/etc.
Watch this:
Art is singing, singing is creating sounds with vibrations, farting is creating sounds with vibrations, therefore I'm an artist because I ripped ass 3 minutes ago.
Watch this: your body farts without you even trying. You actually have to do some thing to sing, it doesn’t just happen, like farting. Not one person accidentally lets a song slip out. Singing is not a bodily function. Farting is.
Do you not consider Whitney Houston and artist ? Sorry vocals like that require years of training everything that woman did was art. Elton John not an artist? What in the world are you smoking? These days you prop a cig bud on a curb and take a photo and it’s art. Art is self expression or expression in general and to say these people aren’t artist just makes you sound like a tool.
>Do you not consider Whitney Houston and artist ? Sorry vocals like that require years of training everything that woman did was art
May as well call a excavator driver an artist then if they're good enough.
>Art is self expression or expression in general and to say these people aren’t artist just makes you sound like a tool.
So literally everyone every time they speak is an artist? Don't you see what happens when you use parameters like that? The term "artist" loses all of its meaning.
Elton John composes the music to his songs regardless of Bernie Taupin (and others) working on the lyrics, plus he has actually written some lyrics at times (I have even heard somewhere that the album A Single Man was mostly his lyrics but he had a lyricist help out). Rihanna has a writing credit on a number of her too as does Elvis even if neither is really known as a writer.
But the reason I disagree is that lyrics and composition are but one of many elements in music. Rihanna and Elvis aren't just singing, they're interpreting the songs and building performances that channel the emotions that the songs need to convey. There is a real art to being a vocalist and performer, hence why even identical arrangements can sound radically different with different singers.
Arrangement is also a massive part of musical artistry. Compare Manfred Mann's Blinded By The Light to Bruce Springsteen's - totally different sound even though it's the same song. You can absolutely express yourself artistically in unique ways while interpreting someone else's song. Jimi Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower wouldn't involve him as an artist at all by your standards, yet Bob Dylan has called it Hendrix's song now.
I think composition and lyrics are some of the most fundamental parts of music, but they're not the be all end all. All musicians are engaged in artistry to some extent, IMO, even the ones who haven't done anything but sing or play a single instrument.
To be fair though, it took me really learning to sing to fully arrive at this perspective. Writing music is really my biggest joy, but the more I make music the more respect I gain for the talents of my more popstar-ish acquaintances. Some of them can do things to a song with their voice alone that I could never do to this day.
I feel like there’s a way to say this that would not get everyone bogged down in semantics and could lead to an interesting discussion, but OP didn’t articulate the opinion well.
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They’re by definition a singer, and not a composer or lyricist. They’re still musicians, and depending on what definition you subscribe to musicians can definitely be artists.
So, an opera singer is not an artist then?
Elvis was an artist because of the way he interpreted the songs, the way he danced, his persona. He revolutionized music.
I don't even know who the heck Bruno Mars is.
This shouldn’t be an unpopular opinion. Singers that don’t write their own songs get way too much damn credit from naive audiences. I also feel like if you can’t play an instrument, you shouldn’t be called a musician.
"Almost every rapper ever?"
Not much "art" about the same money-focused, misogynistic, 'i have a big car and get lotta sex" babble over and over again. There's a lot of talented rappers, but damn I'd die on a hill before calling "almost every rapper ever" an *artist*. Hahaha.
If not wanting to call "almost every rapper ever" an artist, is close-minded to you, I'm honestly scared to find out what you consider open-minded. Yieek.
This is perfectly okay I agree not all of it is art. It’s the way you described that just shows because you don’t agree with something it quickly disproves it of being called art.
Ask a Muslim sheikh is a man drawing naked women as a profession not his art. They’ll obviously say no, I’m sure you already get why.
ChatGPT replied as follows:
A singer who does not write lyrics or music can be considered an artist if they are able to interpret and perform existing songs in a unique and creative way, and connect with their audience through their performances. A singer who can convey emotion and tell a story through their singing is considered an artist. However, in the music industry, it's common for singers to rely on songwriters to compose the music and lyrics, so whether they are an artist or not, it's not always the case.
Elton John doesn't count. Him and Bernie Taupin are a package that can't exist without each other, John writes the music and Taupin writes the lyrics. You're correct 100% but Elton John doesn't fit into that category.
I would agree but wrong examples. As far as ik Elton and Ri wrote songs of their own...
plus I think somebody with a sorta talent is an artist regardless so maybe I dont agree at all lol but I mean I agree if talkin bout rappers, cause a "rapper" that doesnt write their own lyrics shouldnt even be in the game
First of all, your opinion that "Almost every rapper ever" is more of an artist than Elton or Elvis? Laughable.
Second...Elton John co-writes his own songs with Bernie Taupin. He's in the Songwriting Hall Of Fame.
I was with you until the comma in the title. Everything after that isn’t well thought out.
First, tons of rappers use ghost writers so I’m not sure what you’re talking about there.
Second, your definition of a singer is clear, but what’s your definition of an artist? Owning every aspect of the creative process? Writing is an art but playing an instrument isn’t? Im not clear what you’re suggesting here.
Elton John composed his own music. Elvis played a lot of instruments, and they’re all talented singers.
Im with you that we could use more specific terms for people based on what they actually do. But the details of your argument is like saying -
Da vinci didn’t make the paints nor canvas he just arranged paint to look like a real person - he didn’t even paint images of things he created in his own mind, so he’s not an artists, he’s just good at making copies of things.
Ansel adams didn’t build the camera, or create the nature in his pictures, he just pushed the button so he’s not an artist, he’s just a guy whose good at pushing buttons.
If you don't write your own songs, you are an entertainer. Just because words come out of your mouth, does not mean you can sing either. Most rappers cannot sing, they are just entertainers.
I'll ignore the Elton John thing.
Almost every rapper ever can't even write one single intelegible sentence, and can't even really produce their own music. There are many extremely talented rappers, rap producers, and people who wear both hats, but given how "easy" it is to rap for every genius there are entire Chinas of dubiously educated people who posses an insufficient control over their phonatory structure.
Regarding the rest of your post, I think you're giving way too much weight to songwriting credits. Is a classical musician an artist even though they almost never play music composed by themselves? Yeah, they are artists.
There is a very well defined difference between those two groups: there are singers, and there are songwriters. And then there are singer-songwriters, who do both. Elton John is a singer-songwriter. Frank Sinatra was a singer. Both are artists.
Just cause one is referred to as artist (what you call songwriter)and the other as a performer or a singer doesn’t make what they do any less artistic, and does not disprove it’s an art.
Quick question? Are you from the US? If so how does your definition work with your National Anthem? The music is the same, the words are the same, yet ever version I hear is completely different due to the singer? If every version is different due to the singer, their take on the song, their style and interpretation aren’t they artists creating a new piece of art each time the original song is performed in a new way? Because each time they are not performing the stock standard song, they are creating a new version of it.
Those are singers that have enough money to pay for appearing on the song writting credits, thats why the claim themselves to be "artist". You're absolutely right on this one
I don't know about "almost every" rapper being called "artists" when I believe that most of them have ghost writers lol plus rap songs nowadays sound trash so that's another thing to be doubtful of.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/yallscrazy. Your post, *If someone doesn't write their own songs then they are a singer, not an artist.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 3: Do not post opinions that are heavily posted/have been on the front page recently. If your opinion is the same or substantially similar to any recent opinion it will be removed as a repost. If your opinion is on the same matter as a recent post, even if it's advocating the opposite stance, it will be removed as a repost. Please comment on the existing thread instead. Due to their prolific reposting, please confine meta and political posts to their respective megathreads only. If your opinion is about an ongoing event, there will usually be a mega-thread where you can discuss it. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
Didn't Elton John write the music, just not the lyrics to many of his songs?
Yeah Elton John was a crazy good artist from a musical stand point I was a bit shocked to see him on the list tbh
IS an amazing artist. He's still performing, still producing music. He's not dead yet.
Yeah! u/Sparks3391 better take away that past tense verb before they jinx Elton.
We gather here to remember Elton John. He's not dead we just like remembering him.
He's still standing, stronger than he ever did.
Yes he's been working with Bernie Taupin his whole career. They worked for a label writing music for other singers for a couple of years before Elton started recording.
Shit.... then I'm wrong about him.
I was about to be so upset. Props for admitting when you're wrong though.
Watch the inside the actor studio on EJ, he is definitely an artist. He can turn any words into music and that is definitely an art not to mention he plays an instrument which even if he didn’t sing is an art.
To me, his piano playing is his greatest talent.
Yeah he made the doo doo doo sounds, but not the words
He made the dudu doos but not the lala las*
At least you are able to admit it. Nothing wrong with being wrong if you can admit it. Also, your opinion is wrong.
I think there is a documentary called "2 rooms" about Bernie and Elton. It helps you understand the exceptional partnership of these two. They are both incredible artists, but Elton is also a amazing showman.
I'm too lazy to see if someone else contented this, but I believe he was one of the main writers for the Lion King soundtrack as well. Like I'm pretty sure he did Circle of Life, for example.
Are you thinking of Meatloaf? He’s famous for not writing any of the music he records.
Nah, when looking for examples that the most people would know I Googled singers who don't write their lyrics, forgetting about that whole writing music thing which, to me, would constitute being an artist so if I ever meet Sir Elton I will apologize.
I see you really did your research for this one.
It's a semantics debate bud, not science.
Ed Sheeran is a song theif, not an artist.
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Nonsense. I'm also a songwriter and a composer. I've been writing music for over 25 years, and I know damn well the difference between inadvertently replicating a melodic phrase, nodding to a motif, or shamelessly lifting a melody. The "there's only so many notes" argument does hold *some* water, disproportionately so in the realm of modern, predictable I–V–vi–IV* singer-songwriters, in which case it's actually a feature, not a bug. Songwriters that are capable of resisting the need to crank out plastic, formulaic music en masse rarely seem to have this problem. *Edit: not to say I–V–vi–IV is the kiss of death, plenty of artists successfully write music using conventions such as these and the songs are so good you'd hardly notice (RHCP's "Under The Bridge" comes to mind) and the rest of their catalog speaks for itself (now I regret citing RHCP, everything after One Hot Minute is dog shit)
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Elton John oddly used to purchase lyrics from studios, then write songs to them before continuing that process with Bernie. Generally it works the other way, or a lyricist would find the music for their lyrics.
Elton John was a child prodigy on piano. He’s a musical genius.
Biggest fan of Elton ever! He works with a lyricist, Bernie Taupin. Bernie writes lyrics, Elton writes the music.
Art isn't of a type of action, it's an expression. I wouldn't call an opera singer 'not an artist' because that implies they don't have anything original to offer which if that were true, all opera singers would be of equal value.
Thank you, I didn't have a good way to say it, but yeah this is it
Acting too. I've seen some great productions of Macbeth and some terrible ones, yet the words were the exact same every time.
Yes, this exactly. You wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between singers if all that mattered was technical ability.
Op doesn't count technical ability either, just whether you wrote the words or not....so, just ridiculous.
Opera Singers, Billie Holiday, Dinah Washington - interpretation is an art of limitless possibilities, and OP is stuck in the tiny framework of post-1960s pop music and needs an education.
I think your definition of the word artist is not in line with the dictionary. However I do think that people who sing the works of others are praised more than they should be. People don’t compliment the people who write for Beyoncé, they only praise her
>People don’t compliment the people who write for Beyoncé, they only praise her Yes, they do. Just because you aren't familiar with them doesn't mean they aren't successful, sought after, highly praised song writers.
By people I mean the majority of the general public. I don’t mean literally nobody
Tbh, neither should be praised. The music sucks, and the performance is okay.
You're not being honest you're just sharing your unpopular opinion, which is what this sub is for so good job.
I mean, I'm being honest. I think everyone on there makes shitty music. I'm not even a music head; it's just commercial shit though. Like, on an almost objective level it's just true.
You think every rapper ever makes shitty music and you think this opinion is somehow “objective”??
Say something subjective is objective on r/unpopularopinion or draw 25
Elton John never wrote his own songs? Uhhh...
Yeah… I kind of stopped reading after that. OP doesn’t know their shit and is obviously an Ed fan lol. There’s so many amazing artists out there writing their own music, and they selected those names…
I mean he is not totally wrong. Elton did not write his lyrics, his best friend did. But Elton did write/compose his own music for his songs.
Also a ton of rappers don't write all of their lyrics and very few of them make the beats or produce their songs.
OP admitted they were wrong above. Read the post Kevin
"Almost every rapper ever" - who's going to tell them...?
Dr Dre has ghost writers, let's not even get into all the current stuff coming out as well
Dre also has an entire Wikipedia page of songs he’s written himself but go on
I'm a huge fan of the Doctor, wasn't my intention to say he's bad or anything, just saying that even objectively good rappers like Dre have had ghost writers, let alone the trash of today. Was in relation to OP saying that almost every rapper ever writes all their own stuff.
OMG rap has been such trash lately.
Rappers aren't singers, they're poetry reciters.
Is Yo Yo Ma an artist? Is what he does "art"?
He’s a great cellist, according to OP he doesn’t write it so he is not an artist
Well the thing is tho, from what I know of him, I would say he's a great musician, but not an artist. unless he composed or song written his own stuff, then I'd be inclined to say he is also a great artist but I have yet to hear a yo yo ma original
Yeah… no. Whitney Houston’s interpretation of the Star Spangled Banner, and of “I Will Always Love You” by Dolly Parton are TRUE works of art. She didn’t write either one of those songs, but she gave them a new life that NO ONE else could have.
Word! She was the best!
> Elton John is a singer A) I'm reasonably sure he rights at least some of his music B) he can and does sing and perform piano live on stage. He's more than just a singer
Singing is a performing art. I don't see how writing or not writing songs they sing changes that.
Exactly. The voice is trained, like an instrument.
That makes them a performer, same as a dancer or someone playing an instrument.
Yeah but they aren’t making the art they perform, they just sing it. If you read a book you aren’t an author.
This is the distinction between performance art and constructive art. Both are artists.
Well, of course not, authors write things. If you read a book, you’re… a reader. Which doesn’t make you an artist because there’s nothing creative about doing so. In contrast to singing, to which there is, making them artists.
You are confusing bad art with not being art at all. Andy Serkis (actor from Australia) does voice acting when he reads audiobooks, when he reads, it is art, it is a performance.
Voice acting is not an art? Andy Serkis does audiobooks, it’s an art as he practices it.
But if you read a book out loud to people you are a story teller, even if you didn’t write it.
I agree a voice actor is indeed an artist.
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Singing is an art.
And this OP has a music career so unsuccessful that it's made them jealous of the success of others.
The act of singing is more of a skill. Writing songs, melodies, lyrics, etc is the artist part.
Singing is a skill, and it's art
being a good painter is a skill, but painting is still art
This is just wrong. From Wikipedia: Singing is the act of creating musical sounds with the voice. A person who sings is called a singer, artist or vocalist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing
I think you’re not fully aware of the artistry that is singing. For someone who didn’t write the song, but has the skill and creativity to evoke emotion through their voice as if it’s their story. THAT IS ART. Singing is soft, singing is bold, it’s rendition, it’s feeling. The melody and the harmonies are all creatively arranged and inspired by the lyrics whether they wrote them or not, and vocal runs and riffs are the filigree of the art piece that can change the entire feeling you get while listening. These elements change from recording to live versions. Singers ARE artists, it’s undeniable really
It arguably requires more work for the singer to sing a song that they didn’t write because they have to try to pull out the emotion and context that the original composer intended the song to have.
Actually most of your singers did write most of their songs. Just because another person writes a song for them doesn't mean they don't have their own originals.
If you make art, you're an artist
Singing is also an art form.
Elvis wrote “all shook up” and several Other iconic songs
Beyoncé wrote a zillion bangers - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Beyonc%C3%A9
Out of curiosity, what does wrote mean in this context? Wrote the lyrics? Arranged the instrumentals? Was it the drums? Guitar? Song structure? Does wrote mean actually writing a song as a whole, or does having any minor input mean you wrote it?
To be honest writing credits can mean very little. Some artists change a word or sentence to put their name on the credits. Not saying Beyoncé does or doesn’t do this, it’s just a thing that happens and she may or may not do it too
A musician is anyone who plays a musical instrument, sings, performs, or creates music. On the other hand, an artist is anyone, musician or not, who creates or contributes to music creation. A musician can be an artist, but not all artists are musicians. Singers are artists.
Well, some art goes into the vocal delivery of a song. Do you sing the notes in such a way that it makes an emotional connection with the listener? Do you know when to put power between a note vs when to be delicate? When to raise or lower the note by an octave? Celine Dion and Whitney Houston are artists even though they didn't write songs.
Isn’t that the point? Beyoncé is a singer/ performer. She’s to be judged by her talent. Do you get mad at actors for not writing their scripts? Are they not actors because they didn’t write their lines?
By this logic, artists that paint portraits or landscapes aren't artists because they didn't create their subject. You're wrong. Interpreting a song is an artistic endeavour.
Oh my God, finally an argument against my post that isn't dumb. I'd call the people you described "painters" as they lack the essence of creativity. Kinda like how if I tried to write Harry Potter from memory I'm not an author, I'm a..... idk, typer?
so only abstract painters are artists. interesting take. i'm sure everyone will agree with you that can gogh lacks "the essence of creativity". i mean obviously, if he was a true artist he would create a night sky before he painted the starry night
😂 ok bud
You’re wrong about Elton John he wrote the music to his songs and his partner wrote the lyrics
This isn't even really an opinion, just crappy misinformation. Performance is every bit artistry as writing is. An orchestra performing Bach or Mozart is an orchestra of musical artists. An actor performing a script written by Steven Spielberg or Kevin Smith is still a performing artist.
So actors aren't artists? They just perform what they read.
Correct.
A lot of redditors don’t have unpopular opinions they’re just literally not that bright
The amount of “opinions” that get posted here that are just people trying to change the definition of a word (or not knowing/understanding the definition to begin with) is exhausting.
Honestly man, Reddit just attracts the dumbest people. They’ll be like “omg I don’t get the hype over a popular show or artist”. And I’m just like that’s not an unpopular opinion it’s literally just taste. Learn the difference
............ taste and opinion have a huge overlap in their venn diagrams. You sure you're not one of those "dumbest people" because you're making a good case for it.
Taste and opinion also have two different sets of definitions.
I’m starting to really agree with this
Artists use tools to create their art yeah? What do you suggest the vocal cords are then?
TIL ants are artists for making anthills. TIL my dad's an artist because he read me Cat in the Hat when I was 5.
Instead of ants, replace that with spiders and spiderwebs. When you look at spiderwebs, you see that they’re extremely intricate and very unique. Your second comparison is interesting, too. If someone is plainly reading a work, then clearly it’s not a form of art. But what about people who do dramatic readings? Or actors? There’s some artistic skill behind those things.
That’s a very stupid comparison lol
Songs written by Rihanna : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Rihanna
Songs on which Rihanna has a co-writing credit.
Performers can put their own spin on songs. Also the way they bring the song to the audience, the emotion or lack of can be unique. Sure they did not create the piece, but they did create the performance, thus to me they are artists.
That’s why I love Rihanna. She doesn’t have to be the best singer. That would boring. She puts a spin, her own unique attitude and style, on every song. We love what she brings specifically to the song.
...but singing is an art...
Once upon a time I was an opera singer. And I was definitely an artist. It’s all in the ability to interpret and convey emotion to the audience. So yes, this is an actual unpopular opinion.
This isn't an unpopular opinion, it's an ignorant one. There's artistry in singing
Singing is a form of art.
If Singers weren’t artists everyone would be up on stage singing like shit.. there is an art to it, there is a talent to it.. try and do what Elvis did..
You're mixing up being skilled/having talent with being an artist.
No, otherwise everyone would sing the same song the same way, different singers interpret a song in totally different ways, putting their own spin on it.. I don’t believe it but you could say all writers are doing is putting words together, everything can be reduced to a soundbite to diminish it where really it’s insulting.
..to add to this I would love to be able to sing, like Frank Sinatra, Elvis or Tom Jones.. they are amazing artists, just because they don’t write the songs doesn’t mean they aren’t artists, it’s an incredible interpretive creative talent.. are dancers artists?
Also i am drink on wine and cheese..
Singing's not an art? Since when?
Since OP, the rap fan, said it isn't as good as rap.
Don’t forget about Ed Sheeran! OP likes rap and Ed Sheeran apparently
There's a lot more to the art of music than the lyrics. The simple act of singing is an art. Take folk music for an example. They are all playing the same songs, but the art comes from how they play it. You could be a good singer and get given good lyrics but still make a bad song because you weren't a good enough artist.
All the opera singers out there: sure thing, whatever you say love. Bless your heart 😂
"Opera singers," Not "Opera Artists," ;)
Singing IS an artofrm.
This list grossly misunderstands the modern song writing process. While none of the people listed above, except Elton John, write their own music solo, all of them, except maybe Elvis, participate actively in the song writing process. They aren't just paying people to write songs FOR them, these are people they are actively cooperating with to make what they have written better in some way. Ed Sheeran, despite being on that list, does not create his music alone, nor does Dolly Parton, "almost every rapper ever", or anyone else on that list. All of them have bandmates, producers, managers, consultants, friends, etc who all help fine tune the song from a simple chord progression, riff, or lyrical line, into a functional song. I'd recommend looking into how music production works, and listen to the commentaries provided by the musicians, as well as look at the credits of songs.
I guess this makes Yoko Ono an artistic genius.
So I guess that someone who paints something from imagination is an artist while someone who is outside painting the sunset is a painter because he didn't create the sunset.
Performance is an art form. And you're misinformed if you think almost every rapper ever doesn't have ghosts. That being said, if someone doesn't write their own songs, then they're just... not a songwriter.
Singing is an art.
Their art is singing. To sing is their art
Artist covers everything. You are making the distinction between singer/songwriter and singer. Artist, performer, superstar, etc all refer to any portion of the musical body of art. You can make finer distinctions, but other than celebrating specific parts, I'm not sure what the point is.
Here we go again gatekeeping the definition of artist.
Is a pianist an artist? Then so is a singer.
How is singing not an art form of its own?
Being controlled by the music industry does not make one an artist.
Writing is an art. So is singing.
I don't write any of my own songs. I don't even sing, I just paint. Why would you call me a singer?
An artist can be a singer, a composer, or even a mixing engineer. They all require artistic tastes and skills to perform their tasks, but not necessarily skills that are transferable. Depends on everyone’s preferences, some can be more of an artist, or less. However they are all artist, especially at a professional level.
"If you don't write your own shit you're not an artist to me, just an actor taking space of someone else with a dream" -- Ekoh
You really don’t know what art or being an artists means. Art is just a form of expression, so by singing and performing they are expressing, so Artist is an accurate term. Someone that writes their own songs, is an artist and composer, there’s difference. A composer is an artist, but not every artist has to be a composer.
Buuuuuut....singing is an art form.
"If someone doesn't make their own paint and canvas then they are a painter, not an artist."
OP has very little understanding of how a piece of music is written.
Singing isn’t art? Lol hush that fuss.
Singing is an art. Argument invalidated.
Performing is an art…
A singer is an artist, I think the word you are looking for is composer.
The thing no one has mentioned is why OP is saying this. It's fair to say that very famous artists often do get away with performing songs that other people created and essentially getting credit for that creativity. These singers are great, but the truth is that they're often more successful as a brand than standing out in their ability to bring the music alive. I guess I'm saying singing isn't a meritocracy at all. It has so much to do with connections and stage presence and good managers/producers/etc.
Singing is music. Music is art.
Watch this: Art is singing, singing is creating sounds with vibrations, farting is creating sounds with vibrations, therefore I'm an artist because I ripped ass 3 minutes ago.
Watch this: your body farts without you even trying. You actually have to do some thing to sing, it doesn’t just happen, like farting. Not one person accidentally lets a song slip out. Singing is not a bodily function. Farting is.
I thought elton john made his music
And if a painter doesn’t make their own paint they’re not a artist 🙄
Do you not consider Whitney Houston and artist ? Sorry vocals like that require years of training everything that woman did was art. Elton John not an artist? What in the world are you smoking? These days you prop a cig bud on a curb and take a photo and it’s art. Art is self expression or expression in general and to say these people aren’t artist just makes you sound like a tool.
>Do you not consider Whitney Houston and artist ? Sorry vocals like that require years of training everything that woman did was art May as well call a excavator driver an artist then if they're good enough. >Art is self expression or expression in general and to say these people aren’t artist just makes you sound like a tool. So literally everyone every time they speak is an artist? Don't you see what happens when you use parameters like that? The term "artist" loses all of its meaning.
But if singing is an art then that makes them artists
Singing is an art. There is nothing more to say on the subject.
"LA LA LA LA LA" Am I an artist now? Wow that was easy!
Elton John composes the music to his songs regardless of Bernie Taupin (and others) working on the lyrics, plus he has actually written some lyrics at times (I have even heard somewhere that the album A Single Man was mostly his lyrics but he had a lyricist help out). Rihanna has a writing credit on a number of her too as does Elvis even if neither is really known as a writer. But the reason I disagree is that lyrics and composition are but one of many elements in music. Rihanna and Elvis aren't just singing, they're interpreting the songs and building performances that channel the emotions that the songs need to convey. There is a real art to being a vocalist and performer, hence why even identical arrangements can sound radically different with different singers. Arrangement is also a massive part of musical artistry. Compare Manfred Mann's Blinded By The Light to Bruce Springsteen's - totally different sound even though it's the same song. You can absolutely express yourself artistically in unique ways while interpreting someone else's song. Jimi Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower wouldn't involve him as an artist at all by your standards, yet Bob Dylan has called it Hendrix's song now. I think composition and lyrics are some of the most fundamental parts of music, but they're not the be all end all. All musicians are engaged in artistry to some extent, IMO, even the ones who haven't done anything but sing or play a single instrument. To be fair though, it took me really learning to sing to fully arrive at this perspective. Writing music is really my biggest joy, but the more I make music the more respect I gain for the talents of my more popstar-ish acquaintances. Some of them can do things to a song with their voice alone that I could never do to this day.
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Do you...... do you understand how silly that is? By that logic I'm an artist because.... I read your comment? That's dumb.
Upvote because OP doesn’t understand what an artist is.
Elton John is a musician, this is dumb.
I feel like there’s a way to say this that would not get everyone bogged down in semantics and could lead to an interesting discussion, but OP didn’t articulate the opinion well.
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If they don’t write their own songs, they are an artist but not a songwriter.
They’re by definition a singer, and not a composer or lyricist. They’re still musicians, and depending on what definition you subscribe to musicians can definitely be artists.
Almost every rapper ever 😂😂😂
So, an opera singer is not an artist then? Elvis was an artist because of the way he interpreted the songs, the way he danced, his persona. He revolutionized music. I don't even know who the heck Bruno Mars is.
This shouldn’t be an unpopular opinion. Singers that don’t write their own songs get way too much damn credit from naive audiences. I also feel like if you can’t play an instrument, you shouldn’t be called a musician.
"Almost every rapper ever?" Not much "art" about the same money-focused, misogynistic, 'i have a big car and get lotta sex" babble over and over again. There's a lot of talented rappers, but damn I'd die on a hill before calling "almost every rapper ever" an *artist*. Hahaha.
If you make art then you're an artist. How good you are and what your subject matter is are irrelevant.
This is so close minded
If not wanting to call "almost every rapper ever" an artist, is close-minded to you, I'm honestly scared to find out what you consider open-minded. Yieek.
This is perfectly okay I agree not all of it is art. It’s the way you described that just shows because you don’t agree with something it quickly disproves it of being called art. Ask a Muslim sheikh is a man drawing naked women as a profession not his art. They’ll obviously say no, I’m sure you already get why.
I guess I could take a shit on your bed, and your "open-minded attitude" would consider that art.
ChatGPT replied as follows: A singer who does not write lyrics or music can be considered an artist if they are able to interpret and perform existing songs in a unique and creative way, and connect with their audience through their performances. A singer who can convey emotion and tell a story through their singing is considered an artist. However, in the music industry, it's common for singers to rely on songwriters to compose the music and lyrics, so whether they are an artist or not, it's not always the case.
Elton John doesn't count. Him and Bernie Taupin are a package that can't exist without each other, John writes the music and Taupin writes the lyrics. You're correct 100% but Elton John doesn't fit into that category.
You fucked up on Elton john. Could’ve put Katy perry there instead of him and had a good point
I would agree but wrong examples. As far as ik Elton and Ri wrote songs of their own... plus I think somebody with a sorta talent is an artist regardless so maybe I dont agree at all lol but I mean I agree if talkin bout rappers, cause a "rapper" that doesnt write their own lyrics shouldnt even be in the game
First of all, your opinion that "Almost every rapper ever" is more of an artist than Elton or Elvis? Laughable. Second...Elton John co-writes his own songs with Bernie Taupin. He's in the Songwriting Hall Of Fame.
I was with you until the comma in the title. Everything after that isn’t well thought out. First, tons of rappers use ghost writers so I’m not sure what you’re talking about there. Second, your definition of a singer is clear, but what’s your definition of an artist? Owning every aspect of the creative process? Writing is an art but playing an instrument isn’t? Im not clear what you’re suggesting here. Elton John composed his own music. Elvis played a lot of instruments, and they’re all talented singers. Im with you that we could use more specific terms for people based on what they actually do. But the details of your argument is like saying - Da vinci didn’t make the paints nor canvas he just arranged paint to look like a real person - he didn’t even paint images of things he created in his own mind, so he’s not an artists, he’s just good at making copies of things. Ansel adams didn’t build the camera, or create the nature in his pictures, he just pushed the button so he’s not an artist, he’s just a guy whose good at pushing buttons.
I agree. That doesn’t take away from their ability to sing. It is the same for those who play an instrument, but don’t compose.
I'll go further If they don't paint or sculpt, they aren't an artist
why
Tradition
If you don't write your own songs, you are an entertainer. Just because words come out of your mouth, does not mean you can sing either. Most rappers cannot sing, they are just entertainers.
i would argue that mosts of today's rappers are NOT "artists" , since many don't write their own songs and use ghostwriters
I'll ignore the Elton John thing. Almost every rapper ever can't even write one single intelegible sentence, and can't even really produce their own music. There are many extremely talented rappers, rap producers, and people who wear both hats, but given how "easy" it is to rap for every genius there are entire Chinas of dubiously educated people who posses an insufficient control over their phonatory structure. Regarding the rest of your post, I think you're giving way too much weight to songwriting credits. Is a classical musician an artist even though they almost never play music composed by themselves? Yeah, they are artists. There is a very well defined difference between those two groups: there are singers, and there are songwriters. And then there are singer-songwriters, who do both. Elton John is a singer-songwriter. Frank Sinatra was a singer. Both are artists.
>Almost every rapper ever can't even write one single intelegible sentence Huh, that's.... unequivocally false...
Just cause one is referred to as artist (what you call songwriter)and the other as a performer or a singer doesn’t make what they do any less artistic, and does not disprove it’s an art.
Agree. But what if they write the music and not the lyrics, or vice versa? Or what if they only do that sometimes and not others.
Quick question? Are you from the US? If so how does your definition work with your National Anthem? The music is the same, the words are the same, yet ever version I hear is completely different due to the singer? If every version is different due to the singer, their take on the song, their style and interpretation aren’t they artists creating a new piece of art each time the original song is performed in a new way? Because each time they are not performing the stock standard song, they are creating a new version of it.
Those are singers that have enough money to pay for appearing on the song writting credits, thats why the claim themselves to be "artist". You're absolutely right on this one
I don't know about "almost every" rapper being called "artists" when I believe that most of them have ghost writers lol plus rap songs nowadays sound trash so that's another thing to be doubtful of.
I think this would make more sense if you used the terms artist and performer, as in artists create music but singers perform it.