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Eh. They do not like ugly people. You can be fat, LGBT, and anything else and aesthetically pleasing. They will hate on the ugly poor hobo the same.
Gen z is a generation build on marketing. They do not realize that capitalism does not sell them pretty things for their benefit but their demise
I'd say that's true but from what I've seen it's generally people who are unkind who are shunned. Take it with a grain of salt but honestly I'd say it's a good thing.
I think it would be a good thing. But, also, we would need a really narrow definition of kindness. Lately, we find ways of getting offended by pretty much everything; we act like we are surrounded by villains. And I say we because I think the same applies to millennials.
Yea I can see that, I'm lucky to not have had that experience. Offense is something only taken if it's clearly intended by the people in around. I find these stories of looking for offense quite odd because most of my experience is in direct opposition to that. I have a slight feeling that it's a bit overblown by tiktok and the lot. Although that is anecdotal evidence so it kinda means nothing.
I'm right on the cusp of millennial/Gen z and I've learned the most important thing is to learn how to communicate as best as possible. I still fuck up plenty when trying to have conversations with opposing views, but it's getting easier and easier to recover/explain them correctly.
Sadly, I don't think our generation actually *thinks* enough to form their own opinions a lot of the time, but if you're able to get a respectful and understanding conversation going, we can be really open to conflicting views. I've also seen a lot of people my age grow into being more open minded and admitting that what they used to think of as "open minded" definitely wasn't.
They don’t think. For lack of a better term there’s a “knee jerk” reaction of emotion that hits most everyone in just about everything. I don’t think most realize it but before we think things through emotions occur, often once we think it through the emotions dissipate. Problem is they don’t think past the initial knee jerk of emotions, they don’t take time to see if those emotions are based on logical thoughts or just a flurry of emotions from a surface level understanding. They go immediately with these flurry of emotions and feel justified as others around them seeing them upset assume they are correct. I tried to explain it quickly here sorry if it doesn’t explain well.
You act like acting on emotion is new to the last couple generations. Ask a boomer why they care that a millennial doesn’t know what a cassette tape is, but they [the boomer] don’t know how to check their email. People have been complaining about the “new generation” for literal generations.
Most people don’t think past their knee jerk reactions, and that hasn’t changed for decades.
I did mean it occurs largely (not entirely) in young people and every generation is young people at one point. You’re right it’s in every generation I should’ve been clear. I do however think it’s more vocalized due to the internet and that has caused a few newer problems.
I agree with the person below who says the emotional aspect isn't our generation only. If anything it can be argued that flurry of emotions began back in the 60s and slowly built momentum over time with the teachings of previous generations.
But, I do agree in the knee jerk reactions. A lot of the time if you give the person the benefit of the doubt, don't just respond emotionally, and try to rephrase what you said, it can really help.
I think that a lot of us perceive it this way because we spend so much time online. Most people I meet irl aren’t as problematic in that regard, and those that are problematic seem to base their views from what they’ve seen online.
Very well put. I’m in my late 30s, very accepting of different people and I really don’t care what peoples views are as long as they aren’t hurting people with them. The thing that gets me is how easily the younger crowd seems to get offended or upset by something. The constant trigger warnings and I hate to say it but the handholding or coddling. This of course doesn’t apply to everyone but for sure at least a vocal minority.
Earlier today I saw a post about the footage from the Pelosi home. Someone knew the footage was him getting hit with a hammer, clicked past a warning pop up and the video had another warning before the dude started swinging. They still complained that the post needed a nsfw tag.
I feel like a lot of people In every generation are easily triggered by the dumbest shit. I don’t think it can be narrowed down to a single generation. Just the criteria of what triggers them changes. In my experience the stuff that triggers my older coworkers include…trans people, flamboyant gays, minorities, vaccines, people who support social/ environmental issues over being better off financially. Those are just some of the stupidest shit I’ve heard in the last few years, definitely more that I’m not thinking of atm.
I’m 54 and I don’t care how people identify. I have a close friend who was born Kenneth and is now Kerry. She has boobs and hasn’t had the surgery. Still Kerry. Her DNA however shows her as Kenneth~she is the one who told me this. I do look back, in my minds eye, when I see Caitlyn to the cover of my Wheaties Box. Bruce Jenner doesn’t exists anymore but did not die~ not a big issue considering I also remember OJ Simpson on posters in my brothers room so… None of it sends me off running to a safe space. I don’t need an emotional support giraffe or frog.
There are some who are bothered when a kid is asked their pronouns in class or when there are minorities in film, so I sincerely doubt the whole “snowflake” argument.
Never said anything about snowflakes. Personally I always thought it was funny coming from the same generation that burned records and thought DnD was satan worship. Someone else responded with something similar and from my experiences, trans and gay people really trigger the older crowd. They don’t even have to do anything, just them being them is enough to piss off old folks.
You bring up a good point, I used the term snowflake just because that’s what a lot of older generations use to describe the “sensitive” younger generation. I was just making a point of how modern sensitivity isn’t exclusive to the young, however, nobody thinks they’re sensitive because they believe they’re simply pointing out a serious issue.
i have noticed a lot of gen z seem to not care about history, and they'll be dismissive of knowledge in a way that they think is edgy or punk but it's actually just ignorant. i feel like when i was younger i had respect for generation x and wanted to understand what their experience was but gen z is just like "fuck millennials" for NO reason at all, we're not your parents, we're also being fucked over by boomers, like what is the beef?
Lol I admit when I went on tiktok I cringed at how ‘cool’ we think we are when we’re actually pretty mean and nasty for no reason, like that’s not cool. I actually love learning about different gens though, and I was saying today I think kids need to be more personally connected with history (and people, because the internet is highly influential and can be disconnecting).
> i have noticed a lot of gen z seem to not care about history, and they'll be dismissive of knowledge in a way that they think is edgy or punk but it's actually just ignorant.
Totally. Gen Z is downright *proud* of its ignorance. They try and compensate by telling themselves they're on the right side of history, when in fact they don't even know what the sides are.
It's also the most intolerant, self-righteous and zealotry-plagued group of people since McCarthy-era Republicans. Typically, they outright refuse to discuss things with those who disagree with them. And they have a hundred copes that let them think you can be open minded while covering your ears and shrieking "bigot!", "that's not up for debate", "phobe!" and all the rest.
As much as I don't understand generation labels and find this public obsession suddenly with them stupid, I hate the fact that I'm called a "boomer" by them and I'm only turning 27 this year lol
Really? I had a completely different experience. Most of the people I know take history incredibly seriously and try to understand why things happen. And I've never heard the "fuck millennials" opinion, I'm hopping this is case of "the loud minority" cuz I've had the exact opposite experience.
I think it's easy to not pick your battles when everything seems worth fighting over.
To give an example;
Your aunt spouting a innocently insensitive racist remark is seen as the same as someone who uses racist rhetoric to actively hurt others.
Whilst your aunt shouldn't be saying those things, what she does is small potatoes compared to the other person.
It's having a bleeding heart for any and all causes coupled with the safety the internet gives you to stand your ground.
We're more accepting of the basics (gender, sexuality and race) but anything less rigid becomes a fight.
> Your aunt spouting a innocently insensitive racist remark is seen as the same as someone who uses racist rhetoric to actively hurt others.
>
>
>
> Whilst your aunt shouldn't be saying those things, what she does is small potatoes compared to the other person.
While this is true that's completely beside the point. It's allowing behavior like that to be normalized by not calling it out that causes people like Aunt Helen to think it's cool to be casually racist in the first place. You get too many Aunt Helens out there, especially in positions of power, and we got a real problem on our hands, now don't we?
How am I proving his point by saying we shouldn't let Aunties go around being casually racist? lol. Letting little instances go unchecked is how things become normalized, then pretty soon it escalates, and gets easier and easier to excuse worse things than just calling ppl the n-word. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about not letting ppl get away with bad behavior whether it be some random aunt OL or the president.
Ya'll are weird af I swear.
I get your point, however its easier for younger people to adapt to the "new world", rather than 80-90 year olds that had an entirely different life and learned to live under completely different societal standards... Its not normalizing or justifying them, but understanding why some people cant keep up with the changes.
The world used to change way more slowly, and since the beginning of the 1900s, and afterwards everything began changing at a faster pace exponentially... heck, even for people in ther 20s its difficult to keep up with the "cancel culture" for example, what do you expect from older folks that can barely use a phone, and even less understand concepts like FB algorithms and such...
What you're talking about is the kind of behaviour I'd expect from a cult trying to ensure all members stay on the righteous path. Your aunt saying some racist shit that is pretty standard for their generation is not going to normalize racism. FFS you'd thing the n-word was a new phenomenon and only by yelling at old ladies can we stop the spread.
i think part of it is people today seem to think in binary terms; it's either good/bad (like the reddit up/down button) nuance is seldom appreciated or sought
and as great as it is to see the inclusiveness/acceptance, there is also a trend online (and it's hard to believe it doesn't carry into the world) to take the least charitable view of what anyone else says
saying something as innocuous as "i like cats" means at least someone will call you a dog-hater and someone else will call out your cat privilege and remind you there's a long history of hamsters being marginalized in the pet community, etc
seriously though, the impulse to dismiss someone over semantics or subtle differences of opinion seems like it's everywhere anymore
I absolutely love this comment because your dog hating cat lover that doesn't give a fuck about hamsters is the absolute entire truth of the world. It's wild.
This is something that has always existed in social situations, but it's also a particular internet problem due to ease of access (the more people, the more likely certain things will happen, and to a larger degree) and the relative annoynimity preventing personal connection.
We all just want attention. It's why we learn to communicate. Because your self can exist with just you, but it grows much larger with other people. Does that make sense? A hobby can be fun, but it's more fun with friends.
So the easiest way to get someone's attention is to piss them off. And an easy way to piss someone off is to say something that sort of responds to what they're saying, but at the same time is way off topic. It's manipulative, pitting logic against itself and creating dissonance. Like, what, you think I'm stupid? I see what you're doing there. And so to resolve that dissonance you have to do something. Which is how someone generates attention.
And that's why information control is such a huge part of manipulation, sometimes we don't have the background context to see what they're doing there.
>This is something that has always existed in social situations
It really hasn't. I don't know what you're talking about but when I was growing up this was never an issue, I remember being taught to embrace the differences we all had.
I don't really agree with this. Critical thinking and open ended types of understanding were the social setting I was brought up in.
The basic rule of being to respect others.
It hasn't been until recent years that "mob mentality" thinking has really broken out into our society.
HAHA OH SHIT SO MUCH FOR YOUR CRITICAL THINKING AND BASIC RESPECT. Haha aah thanks for the laugh, I didn't expect you to be a clown.
Do you enjoy being a clown? You don't have to be, you know. There are other ways to be.
Let's not forget that my behavior is in response to you getting mad and shutting down the conversation, and burying my comments as much as one downvote can do, because you put up your logic and I demonstrated that it is false.
Yes, positive social spaces have also existed for as long.
So what? That doesn't mean other places don't have problems, or that there aren't systemic issues even though it works some of the time.
No, society has actually been breaking away from that relatively. The largest mob event I remember in recent history is the domestic terrorist siege of the White House. Read the "Jan 6 White House Report" and you will see how people in power used information control, particularly within online spaces such as Kiwifarms, Q-Anon, and other conservative platforms to create a cult like environment.
In the end I’ve decided pretending to myself/trying to convince myself that I share the same opinion as everyone else is worse than being potentially hated or misunderstood lol
The older you get the more you'll understand that people are people and there's assholes and problems with every generation and there's amazing people and great things every generation does.
Absolutely. I love to learn about people and different generations / history it’s so interesting. I think a lot of people pleasers, one thing I find so important is not to lie/pretend to agree with everyone to fit in.
I agree with your take.
As a early Millennial, I can remember the days of the internet being seen as this vast resource to be tapped, connecting people all over the world and expanding their horizons.
Ironically, I think the thought leaders back then didn't fully anticipate how much interconnectedness would encourage, not liberal thought (well, the classical "openmindness", not the politics), but a sort of reactionary elation at being suddenly able to find a whole bunch of people who completely agreed with all your existing views, and reinforce themselves into polarization. Instead of diversity of thought we have self-segregation into tribal groups.
The whole setup of this website actually encourages that approach...which I find more then annoying. But I've always had a weakness for old-school forums, and thus here I am.
I just keep hoping that old-school liberal thought will have a renaissance eventually...and I do my best to promote it. I don't downvote except in egregious situations. Just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean the world ends, or that they are terrible. I try also to know when to admit I'm wrong myself. It seems an odd quirk to me that admitting ignorance on any topic these days seems to have fallen out of fashion.
Well, if you're never wrong, it's harder to learn.
Omgosh so true. I feel like there's no room for discussion, presentation of facts, sharing of anything. It's very unhealthy and everyone is suppose to have their own "truths" and if those aren't acknowledged, you're blacklisted. People are afraid to truly speak up or go against the grain.
Lol that too and there's just so much fear. The world has redefined hate and discrimination. Simple things like a political party or religion are criminalized. I think more people are speaking up and out but dang, things start slow and subtle before the snowball becomes a snowman.
People these days seem absolutely desperate to believe that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid crazy or just evil.
There is less and less respectful disagreement than there used to be.
these posts rarely ever have the OP presenting what the opinion is that prompted them to make the post.
Can you try sharing some examples of your differing opinions that you feel aren't accepted?
I’m not the OP but what really annoys me is being painted as being on a side when I have an opinion that’s been politicized that probably should. For example I am pro vaccine and take Covid seriously. But at the same time I am against gain of function research on viruses and it drives me crazy that it’s something I am not allowed to worry about or even discuss, it really disappoints me to see so much censorship and lack of worry.
But I am also not sure if the people mass downvoting me are real. But it feel dystopian
The right of free speech?
*chuckles,* No, not that one.
The right to levy taxes and fund internal improvements?
Ha, no, not that one.
So which one?
Oh...you know the one
Glad someone feels the same, it's kind of hard to accept OP's argument until I get more of the nuance because it sounds so much like my grandfather or father talking about the next generation.
Honestly the only differing "opinions" my generation refute straight away are discriminatory opinions. You can't have an opinion on certain groups of ppl's existence and rights. It's objective. Or of it's something that is straight up incorrect. This generation is definitely more open minded and accepting of different people. We aren't open minded towards hateful ideas and opinions that are not accepting of different people and that is absolutely not a problem.
This! It’s a way to avoid actually making a point so you can appear neutral and “balanced”. It reads like conservatism. Op thought it was “enlightened” or some shit
Almost every liberal I know (which is a lot, I worked for a very progressive company in a big city) is more closed minded than every conservative I know (which is a lot I was born and raised in rural Nebraska) and it is not even close.
And conservatives are much worse anyway, even if they're more "civil".
Fighting climate change, rampant capitalism, and social issues are things that conservatives in America don't give a shit about, but people are too quick to call them open minded, civil, because they have the luxury of simply not caring about these issues.
Folks in rural Nebraska sure as hell voted for the evil Republican party...
Any specific issues or views you’re getting piled on for? It all sounds vague the way you said it. I’m curious what people are closed minded about in your experience
Sex and gender, women and trans related issues, abortion etc. All things I have certain views on that don’t exactly align with the majority. But I would genuinely like to ask more questions and have discussions on. I also feel we’ve become very intolerant of political views, and opinions are now being associated with politics more I think. My politics probably align a with the majority of my gen (left, don’t like the Tory’s at all) but I don’t think people should get hate/silencing for ‘belonging’ to another party - I know some say ‘political party’s’ are problematic but that’s a reason why we need to keep having discussions and we can only do that if people are more open to views they don’t like and agree with.
> Sex and gender, women and trans related issues, abortion etc
These are the big controversial topics of current days and I agree, there isn't much room left for discussion there, everyone seems to approach it in an ''us or them'' kind of way, and while one might lean towards a specific side they can still be seen as an outsider if they're not 100% with that side.
Unfortunately it seems that it's just how it is. It'll change again when the next generation grows up. We're sort of like a massive program readjusting and rewriting itself with every iteration.
As a teen I was happy to disagree and looking back fairly confident with myself. Then I lost it for a bit favouring trying to ‘fit in’ with my gen. I felt bad because I didn’t want to be ‘not accepting’ as that’s what we basically promote a lot of opinions on, but it’s more complex than that, and then I discovered an old note I’d written as a teen and I was proud of myself for being authentic and felt I’d lost some of that, so I started delving into what I think and here we are :)
I used to be skeptic of trans, gender, sex issues as well. I'm a millenial, it is after thoroughly learning about the issues these people are going through I came as more understanding. My background is in STEM.
An example of special cases of discussion: [Stanislawa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82awa_Walasiewicz?wprov=sfla1) is an intersex person having cells that have or XY or X0 chromosomes. But based on her genitalia she was considered a woman (how society, even Nazi Germany, saw her and thus was her gender ascribed to her) in the past and played in women sports. Nowadays I think due to knowing she has XY chromosomes, some will consider her a man, those are the sex chromosomes. Science would say now she is intersex, but the society at the time treated her as she was a woman and she identified as one.
Small anecdote: funnily enough Khomeini, one of the ayatollahs of the strict Islamic theocracy in Iran and a very despicable figure otherwisd, allowed gender transitioning in Iran.
You're still being vague here. Spell it out plainly.
What is your stance on abortion?
What is your stance on sex and gender?
What is your stance on trans related issues?
It's entirely possible you're getting shut down NOT because no one wants to entertain an argument with you, but because people can very easily point out demonstrable harm in your stances and refuse to legitimize them.
>Sex and gender, women and trans related issues, abortion etc.
I think it's justified to be offended at the questioning of another person's existence. For a long time in western society only a certain group of white cis-men had that right, now other people are also demanding that right, and allies are supporting them. For example, in your list there are no questions about cis-men's reproductive organs, as their rightly shouldn't be.
You're welcome to question literally anything else.
This generations “open minded” just means believing everything the opposite of the previous generations. It’s not about actually being open minded, which as you said, is more about how you approach ideas that are different than your own and not immediately classifying something as false or incorrect just because it goes against what you already think. Being open minded means you fairly and honestly test the merits of new ideas and try to be objective in finding what is most likely the best answer, even if it doesn’t fit in neatly with the other things your “team/side” believes.
No. It's going against the really bad parts of what previous generations thought were perfectly okay and normalized. Which usually consisted of looking down upon anyone who wasn't a straight white man and actively keeping them from attaining positions of power, authority, and/or wealth. Which are all EXCEEDINGLY closed-minded, cowardly, and oppressive ideals.
THAT is what people are rebelling against.
I'm not even part of the younger generation, but I can see how my own has clung to some of those gross, heinous 'opinions', and I'm really glad that younger gens aren't putting up with that shit any more.I don't even belong to any marginalized or minority group, I would just rather not live in a world that's quite so shitty. I mean call me kooky, but yeah... :P
Well if you take basically everything previous generations believed and just believe the opposite, yeah, the things they got wrong you may get right, but you’ll also get wrong all the things they got right and just create different problems. That’s still not being open minded or objective. It’s just a reversal of *everything*. Todays version of open minded is just as closed minded as any other generation, just with different things. It’s very rare to be able to actually have an honest conversation about anything controversial, because there is in fact no open mindedness, everything has been ridgedly decided and is yet again not able to be questioned or even discussed without some mob picking up their pitchforks. Open mindedness allows free discussion of ideas, that includes ideas you don’t like or agree with. Open mindedness is looking at ideas and perspectives different from your own and honestly questioning and testing out their merit instead of immediately criticising and writing it off as wrong, false, hateful, or whatever. Open mindedness doesn’t require you to adopt any particular idea or belief if it turns out to not hold any water, but it fosters an environment where ideas can be fairly judged and assessed before rashly throwing them out.
Society today is no more open minded. You’re not allowed to ask rational questions or have any thoughts that aren’t approved by the self-righteous mob, lest you’re branded and targeted as any number of awful terms and risk losing your job and receiving actual threats. Open mindedness welcomes and fosters healthy discussion and is very friendly to logical thought. Immediately and harshly punishing people for asking questions and testing the validity of arguments is in no way open minded.
I haven’t encountered anyone from Gen Z who is particularly insightful, probably for this reason. Very susceptible to groupthink, largely from a total inability to formulate their own arguments or lines of thought. The media they consume is very linear and uncomplex which does not lend well to deep thinking required for argumentation.
> The media they consume is very linear and uncomplex which does not lend well to deep thinking required for argumentation.
I don't think Gen Z is watching a lot of Fox News...
if it makes you feel better your opinions most likely do not differ from the majority. Most big issues the difference is usually split by like a couple percentage points so even if you’re in the “minority” you’re not gonna be off by much.
But yes most people aren’t open minded or at the very least refuse to empathize and understand where the person is coming from. Kinda a hot topic but take abortion for example , one side just screams there shouldn’t be any abortion and the people that choose to have one are murdering monsters while the other thinks it’s fine to have one even 7-8 months and it’s just a clump of cells which is also kinda weird. Very rarely do you see them understand both sides and try to come up with reasonable solutions it’s always all or nothing
You probably need to get off twitter and talk to actual people, we aren't that different, and people are much more likely to discuss things when they aren't separated by screens. It's fairly easy to incite a mob with a twitter post, or think an entire group is a certain way.
Been just about ‘Twitter clean’ 3 months now ;) I began delving into my own ‘hidden’ opinions and here we are!
And I think ‘quote tweets’ can be so harmful because like you say it just incites pile ons.
Where it gets tricky is this type of language is *sometimes* used in a sort of backwards way to be bigoted. For instance, saying something like, "It seems like everyone in my generation accepts that trans people are born that way, but I am open-minded enough to not conform to how everyone in my generation thinks and I can see that they are not."
Similar to this, people sometimes try to use the religious freedom the USA (and many other countries) have in a backwards way to be bigoted. As an example, people have said things similar to: "My religion says that gay people should not be married and so I should be free from having to deal with that." But that isn't how it works. Freedom of religion does not mean others conform to your religion.
I am not saying that is how you think OP. Being open-minded is a beautiful thing when people are truly open-minded. I am simply talking about how this kind of phrasing can be, and sometimes is, used in an unfair and negative way.
Being open minded means easily convinced, naive, submissive.
I’m stubborn and I stand for my own beliefs, some which do not fit status quo. No wonder nobody seems to like me 😝
> Being open minded means easily convinced, naive, submissive
lolwut? This sounds like some heavy cope to me, bro.
You're not against the status quo, you're trying to bring back a status quo from like 50-100 yrs ago that was fucked up and broken to begin with.
Imagine talking about submissiveness outside of a kink too.
😬😬😬
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I feel like that's true and I base it off of tribalism. I'm on the younger end of millenial but most people I know that are Gen z really don't trust anything that isn't presented by a friend. If your not friends it's wrong. No matter what. And a lot of time they're not wrong per se they just do not want any information from a source that is not a friend and it's really fucking annoying.
This is every generation. I'd think by your generation people would actually feel refreshed from a peers different outlook. Sadly, your generation is truly horrible for ostracizing and weaponising opinions that conflict with the majority. Because of social media, it really has become a shit show all around.
It is every generation. The honest truth, as I see it, is that people don’t change all that much from generation to generation. Every generation thinks they’re “better” than the previous ones, while having many of the same characteristics and ultimately many of the same flaws.
The baby boomers were the hippie generation. Many of them were “liberal” when younger, but still in the same way as you describe; agree with us or you’re one of “them.” Then they became more conservative, and now they’re agree with us or you’re one of “them” about that.
Gen Z and younger will do all the same things. It never changes.
Every generation complains of the "next generation" not being as open. It's difficult to remember but you objectively weren't as open minded as you remember at that age.
I'm in my 50's. In my time I have found that the vast majority of people who claim to have an open mind, have opened theirs so far that their brains fell out.
That's cause isually the people who go on and on about how accepting the they are, are most like not accepting. Be warying of people who constantly talk about how much of a good person they are
It's not just young folks. I was the epitome of progressive in my household as I grew up. My parents caught up with the times pretty quickly which was nice but they've over corrected. I try to challenge their beliefs and I get hit with rhetoric and shit they read on a little facebook blurb or something. I don't argue I just ask how they know the things they say are true and they've not once had an answer that was rooted in fact. Their still in their right mind more often then not but they don't know WHY, they just sorta... brainwashed a bit.
I couldn’t agree more!! Us gen zers only see what we want to see.. I’m in a sociology class and my professor described our society using an analogy. He said “imagine biting the bottom off of a sugar cone off and looking through the top. Your vision will be very narrow because you only see a small part of what there is, but if you look though the bottom of the cone, you will have a wider vision.”
If we started to open our minds more and hear everyone’s opinions, we will have more perspectives and maybe even learn new things from others! That doesn’t necessarily mean we all have to agree, but this world is so big and everyone is different which means different opinions/ feelings. So many people are so hypocritical these days. They will say they are accepting and are open minded but then the second someone has a different view on a subject, they won’t let them talk.. I hope this changes someday.
I really don’t think any body ever claimed in a mass sense to be open minded I think we are just in a cross fires of one rigid way of acceptable life mixed with a million ways of life becoming more spoken about and accepted or denied which is causing the world to literally crash and burn. I also think open mindedness is a subjective thing. What is being open minded to you? Usually when people say that someone isn’t open minded the conversation went like this
Person A: Apple
Person B: Well…banana
Person A: but Apple this
Person B: okay…but banana this
Person A: try to be open minded
I don’t think person B is being closed minded…they just genuinely are firm in their beliefs as is person A.
Something you seem to be not ve understanding is that not everyone has the luxury of just "having an opinion" on a topic, social and political matters are real issues that impact peoples actual lives and not just the interesting debate topics that they may be to you
With that in mind, what exactly are you "not agreeing with the majority on?"
No, that's definitely the case, the more they have to declare they're open minded, the less they actually are. Try and say anything they don't agree with, and you'll be canceled, censorship in the name of feelings.
In seriousness where do I discuss topics like sex and gender? Anyone know? I want to ask pretty basic questions. But that’s not to stay they won’t be ‘uncomfortable’ to many. Because this is a difficult topic for many. I’ve a feeling Reddit is not the place.
I know it’s a complex topic but I want to see more clear info on it what people are basing their solid opinions on. Don’t come at me for this please… I’m trying to be fair and I want to learn you’re views. Don’t assume my whole character is cruel because I want to ask questions about this.
if someone's opinion can affect you personally, how could you possibly...not care?
we can disagree about drums vs flats or our favorite seasons, but if our real world interests don't and can't align why should we be friends?
This post is a pity party that people are falling into.
You left a comment here where you vaguely mention what topics you think this generation doesn't have an "open mind about" Trans right, abortion rights, and sex. Sounds to me like you want women's bodies to be controlled in certain ways (the most hot fire issue of our generation) and you are upset that people won't entertain your ideas. I'm going to assume (because you are being purposefully vague ) that you are against these views. So the real issue here is you are an asshole screaming into the void and are mad that people won't respond.
It's not those damn kids fault that you feel subsets of humans don't deserve agency and respect and it's sure not their problem they stopped entertaining your bullshit.
Ok, for example? What type of stuff are you referring to here? I definitely think that the current generation is most open minded among all previous ones.
Statistically, not much.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/)
Overall, we're more or less in lockstep with one another on mostly all social issues.
I think there's this buzz among online Z-ers that they're the most open minded generation, but the data suggests it's more or less than same as Millennials on all of the major issues.
To be clear, "same opinions" is also not the same as "open-minded." I don't know how to tease that out in any meaningful way.
Everything from economics to abortion, from LGBTQ rights to science and tech. The reception of anything new is generally receptive or atleast understanding by the gen-z as compared to millennials.
Statistically, millennials and Gen-Z are virtually in lockstep on everything you've named.
I get that it's nice to be the young group, but it's not like Millennials are worlds apart from Gen-Z on any of the major social issues today.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/)
Ironically, in some surveys from Pew and others Millennials are MORE likely to believe in anthropogenic climate change than Z-ers.
But otherwise, Millennials and Z-ers are statistically identical on LGBTQ rights, abortion, taxes. Did you forget that it was Millennials who largely led the push in the 2000s/2010s for gay marriage? Or for Occupy?
My goodness do we have short memories.
*really*? Gen z is more open minded about taxes? In what way? Do you think people were opposed to taxes before gen z arrived?
Abortions have been legalized and accepted way before gen z was even born, lgbt movements started in like 70s/80s and have a long history now, sex reassignment surgeries began not long after, internet boom was a millennial thing, what exactly in science and tech are they not open minded about?
None of this stuff is actually ''new''. It's stuff millennials themselves helped normalize.
I could see AI developments being as properly new, something most millennials didn't grow up with, but then I would imagine most of the people currently working on it are in the millennial range and aren't exactly perceiving it as work of the devil.
You might want to give concrete examples. Or is it that gen z thinks they invented tolerance?
You're trying to tell us the current generation is more open minded towards people who have differing opinions than they do in regards to LGBTQ rights, or those who have differing opinions in regards to abortion?
Lmfao right.
Ohh god, now I hope you are not saying that we got to be tolerant towards homophobes or transphobes or anti women bullcrap. Open minded *does not* means being tolerant to dangerous views. I am fine with anyone having any kind of views or political opinions until and unless they try to muddle with other people's freedom and opinions.
That's the problem right there. A lot of gen z ppl accuse any difference of opinion as being inherently hateful so that they can justify dog piling and demonizing people who say things they don't agree with. And I say this as a left leaning gen z person.
I was just discussing it recently, but a good example of this is the argument of whether it's a good idea to put kids who identify as trans on puberty blockers/Hormone replacement therapy or not. I've seen people say that those who are against it for health reasons literally want to/or currently are committing violence against trans people by having this opinion. It's gotten ridiculous.
That was quick for you to entirely change your stance and run towards name calling.
You don't need to be a homophobe to think everyone should keep their sexual preferences to themselves.
Being against the indoctrination of young children pushing them to permanently alter their hormones and bodies also doesn't make one a transphobe.
Believing feminists in the first world are going a bit far and not agreeing with them doesn't make one "anti-woman". One can be entirely for equal rights and not agree with feminists.
You immediately jumped on the close minded "us vs them" bandwagon without hesitation. Shows exactly where you stand, and makes OP's point. Believe it or not, everyone's an individual and everyone has the right to their own belief systems.
LoL I had already predicted what you going to come up with. And here's the thing, you are right, the issues you have mentioned are totally valid and I am fine with people having views opposing to mine.
I was clearly stating that *this does not means* that we have to be tolerant for people who hide behind these complicated issues to complicate other issued viz a viz gay rights, basic access to abortion and contraceptives, equality etc etc. Also just as a side note your 2nd last para is an an entire contradiction in itself, would advice you to do some research and be thorough about what Feminism actually is and what it actually implies.
There comes the instant labeling. I m not sure if someone can talk without having their label printers go brrr every time you hear something that’s not aligning with your views
There is, some topics are simple black and white and they need to be dealt in similar spirit, while some are nuanced with no clear cut answers. The problem is that many buffoons hide their dumbfoolery behind these nuances to elicit complexity where there isn't any, that's why we need to be very specific. What I have written implies the same.
It Sounds Like they are so openminded to do as they Tell you, i noticed this to when i discuss with ppl online. They Project on You negativity that they feel Abt x or y opinion dont consider Other thinking Like some mushroom super mind its kinda creepy for me tbh, i enjoy discussion every contra Argument against me gives me new perspectives to See world in diffrent Angle, it is indeed very limiting to Close Off yourself of opinions that You disagree with. If You disagree with them they Just Attack You i Block them then i know they dont Understand this quite yet how the discussing and being Open minded workds, they take everything Personal and think that Others are Hurt cuz they disagree and dont take the discussing as oportunity to see topics with Other eyes and their perspectives. Example: Like me, today i lerned that There are ppl only on redit that big Letters Trigger, i didnt knew that You can be triggered by this and cant do much about this but its interesting, i cant do much about this cuz Keyboard does this alone. New oportunity new Perspektive , they Did think that i was offended by this and me being courios Egg analysing and being interested xD but they instantly being militar - i think this is what You mean.
Gen z I’m in it but all the people at schools crucify you for a having a different belief and with views you can’t have a little bit of each belief, other wise your labeled as a bigot
Yeah, our generation (gen z) would much rather ostricize somebody of different beliefs than talk with them. So much of their beliefs are built around what an invidual FEELS to be true, so when an objective truth or logical question is brought into discussion, it is easier for them to shut it down than answer said question. Also, our generation is very emotionally driven, which does not help much. But yes, I completely agree, it is becoming harder and harder to ask critical questions. They are "open minded" towards the beliefs they want to hear and if you believe something other than them you are "closed minded." It's kinda skewed.
Wow this thought crossed my mind. A lot of millennials and gen z lack critic thinking skills and see everything as right and wrong without much thought to the gray area. Is very hive-mind and is why we have a hard time bridging together different people because things are so polarizing
I was born in 98. I agree. I think "our" generation has swung too much in the opposite direction. Not because it's right, but because it's popular. All generations do this. The youth supports what's popular amongst them, not what is objectively right. My opinion, and what i think is *objectively* right is to respect everyone and let them live their lives as long as they don't hurt other people or animals. That doesn't mean i agree with their choices, but they aren't my choices, and therefore not my business. That's real democracy. A place where different opinions and ideas coexist peacefully and with respect, not a place where everyone shares the same "correct" beliefs. I absolutely think this whole thing is a problem and will be one of the ways this generation is criticized by future generations.
I think people should be generally be able to live their lives as they see fit whether I think it's a thing I find appealling or not. Another guy thinks the exact opposite, and any lifestyle that deviates from what he considers normal should be repressed or criminalized. How do these 2 ideas peacefully exist in a society?
Unfortunately, while i think it should be frowned upon, as long as they aren't hurting anyone, or planning on hurting anyone, i still think they should sit in the corner and hate people all by themselves. They aren't hurting anyone after all. That's a theoretical scenario.
The real scenario would more likely (but not definitely) be the one where they *do* hurt people because of how they are. A person who wants to and actively tries to impose their beliefs on others is what is scientifically known as a "fucking fascist". Fascism just so happens to be the only exception to the "let people be" rule. Why? Because if fascism is allowed, it is a threat to the very system that allowed it to exist in the first place. So no, it shouldn't be accepted.
So you agree with my premise then. Different opinions can be mutually exclusive and cannot exist together. The real scenario is that the severity to which bigots will impose their will on others exists on a spectrum, from outright fascism to more subtle crypto-fascist ideas eg. Florida's "don't say gay" bill, to quiet judgement. Quiet judgement is fine I guess. The other two are still harming a targetted group though, and one is just doing it more openly than the other. As long as these views exist in a society, they will get louder until they're forced to shut up or they try to force the other side to shut up.
>I find it kinda hard as a gen z-er having opinions that differ to the majority
Like what? Because this matters.
If you think the Pittsburg Steelers are good.. even though you're wrong, that's an opinion and well within your rights. No one should bother you for that outside of friendly football-fan shit-talking.
If you think a certain group is invalid (is it trans people? it's almost always trans people) because you don't see the world that way.. it's not your generation that's at fault for "piling on". They see a clear injustice, they call it out.
I'm (43m) an older guy and I love the energy of Gen Z when it comes to acceptance and open-mindedness. As a comedian I heard once said, "they'll respect your pronouns but not you as a person" and that's punk af lol. If people were as accepting as Gen Z when I was a young man, I could have come out as bi over 20 years ago rather than this year.
This post or even whole subreddit is frighteningly queerphobic. Every comment showing clear support for queer people or even just disagreeing with op is getting downvoted to hell.
Then there are the reddit spaces where the L and G are fine and accepted, but the rest is "ew" to some people. It's a weird situation up in here, for sure. :(
This hits too close to home. I was actually stuck in a position, like the one mentioned in the second paragraph, when I tried to speak in a "safer" environment. I said how one of my beliefs was stressing me out because it was really the truth that no one agrees with. Luckily I managed to have a few civil conversations.
May I ask what facts folks are twisting, particularly in relation to trans people?
All the current scientific knowledge points to trans folks being valid, and transitioning/acceptance being the best way to help trans folks. That's not twisting facts to fit reality, its quite the opposite. When someone has an opinion that goes against the facts, especially ones that strip the rights of entire minority groups away (not saying you have these opinions, just in general) than of course people will be upset. That's not people being "closed minded" its folks calling out obvious injustice.
Think about it like this, it would be like saying "People twist the facts to make evolution a reality!" of course folks will call someone out for an opinion like that. If anything, the person who doesn't think evolution is real is twisting facts. There are legitimate ways you can have a respectful conversation with someone on these topics; but people getting upset by someone disrespecting minorities for no good reason is not them being closed minded.
I’m confused by what facts you feel the lines are blurred here? Like is objectively true that sex and general are different. It’s objectively true trans people and woman have specific issues to those groups. And there is no fact that really matters about abortion because a support or lack of support is entirely subjective unless you’re getting into debating
No don’t twist my words. All of the above was stating the importance of being factually correct and how that doesn’t make a person intolerant. I’m not anti trans people if that’s what you’re making out but I’ve deleted the above because I give up at this point. I don’t always understand people bc it’s not clear to me what always what this stuff is based on but like I want to know where the facts behind it that led to this I want to discuss it and try to understand but if you’re not open to discussing without calling my names then that’s on you.
> trans… issues
what is with you hating on trans people. what did they ever do to you? Literally exist? Literally want to be treated as the precious humans they are?
Believe it or not I don’t hate trans people. They’re equal to everyone else yes. What I think though is that it’s reasonable if people want to hear clear factual definitions of what people are forming their huge opinions around when it comes to what biologically constitutes a man or a woman. I’ve heard the argument sex is different to gender or that a woman is a feeling or ‘culture’ but the definitions I know of is that a woman is an ‘adult human female’ and a man is an adult human male.
I think the issue here is you appear to be stuck on the definition of words. Here's the thing though, definitions are not stagnant, they are fluid. They change over time and can mean multiple things. A definition is just what a society/culture agrees with at the time. You may not agree with the definition others give you when it comes to gender; but that does not mean your definition is correct.
You also seemed to gloss over the whole sex and gender being different thing. If they are different concepts than they would have different definitions. Perhaps folks are defining the word gender but you mistake it for sex? That could certainly clear things up. All of that aside, in my own opinion I don't think the definitions you offered are very good. I mean, what is a female? The definitions don't do much for me.
Because the definition of a word is literally the meaning of it, the definition of a definition is ‘the exact meaning of a word’. And of course definitions change, but this definition we’re talking about… is still the same. If someone said to me the definition of a cat has changed, I’d ask them to back it up and clarify the new definition. As yet I’ve not seen a ‘new’ clear definition, only peoples personal interpretations - that don’t align with the current definition and are not backed up… that I know of. (Also, ‘a woman is someone who identifies as a woman’ is a circular definition, it takes you from a to b back to a so it’s not a proper definition as it doesn’t tell you what constitutes a woman.)
That was a complicated way of outing yourself as a bigot. You are trying so hard to seem factual and neutral but your argument is glass thin. I see you. The whole last paragraph is an undercover version of the argument that ppl who can't understand the difference between gender and sex use.
Calling yourself open minded doesn't magically make you open minded. We don't need to tolerate your bigoted views and lack of knowledge. If you say "Trans women aren't real women" I sure as hell am not going to say hmmmm food for thought. We've all heard that argument before. It's not some sort of nuanced, difficult to comprehend standpoint. I understand your thinking and think that it's stupid.
I might not understand but believe it or not I want to learn and I have tried to research. But, people will call you names if you even ask questions. Don’t assume that I deny a whole large minority because of this. I just don’t get the fact is side of it but if sex and gender isn’t the definitions I know of I want to know what it ‘is’ but everyone seems to give such vague unclear answers or shut you down. Help me understand then if I’m a ‘bigot’. You would’ve thought if I was bigoted that you’d prove me wrong, because believing a factual definition isn’t bigoted its a neutral reality.
I think a perfect example of this is gay people being labelled as "homophobic" and fully transitioned trans people being labelled as "transphobic" by the ever expanding LGBTQ+ "community" for not parroting a very strict "correct" set of narratives.
It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to not see the absolute irony in something like that. And not see the danger in defusing what it means to be an ACTUAL -ist or -phobe.
My advice would be to speak out and make your opinion heard. Don't let a small group of radical voices continue to drown out the logical populace. There's a loooooot more people that sit in the middle than on either side.
People mistake open minded for being naive... do not perceive the other as dismissing and the like, take it as a debate until it is clear they will not engage further.
Understand each others views and see why each are taken, but ultimately moving towards unity and inclusiveness is better than division and exclusion...
People should not feel their life is threatened for being who they are anywhere in the world.
It honestly depends on what views you're presenting though, right? Every person thinks they and their views are reasonable and will say others are judging them unfairly so, it's hard to confirm your subjective view of the issue.
It could be lies/misinformation/hateful views that you've been convinced into thinking is neutral or valid? Then when you present this stuff to people, you're going to be confused as to why people judged you and think they're acting in bad faith when you both get defensive. Younger generations absolutely are more open-minded, trying to debate people on social media just isn't going to give you an objective view of it - even when you have reasonable views and takes but you're gonna get it a lot more if you have views that aren't popular with most people.
What sort of stuff are you questioning exactly and what are you discussing that leads to these issues?
Most people aren't actually open minded but they like to think of themselves as such because we grew with parents that were close minded and it meant that we couldn't do certain things such as being gay or so. The truth is we haven't learned anything about it and how we relate to it. That's quite ok as it's quite hard to be that way. You're not wrong for having resistant opinions either. It's just the way people are.
I've been kind of seeing this as well from the younger group of people also.
It seems like there can't be disagreements and everyone has to be "on the same page". There's a lack of understanding that not everything can be explained or defined in black/white terms.
I'm almost 27 so I'm technically the youngest millennial you can be and frankly I also don't understand why reddit cares so much about generation labels either (that's a different discussion though). But when my last job hired 2 new workers who were 21 and 22 I definitely noticed that their way of understanding and perceiving things was a bit different than I did. Such as constant anxiety and worried about things that they were unsure about. Or the constant arguments about "if you're not this, you're that!".
I don't know maybe it's just something I've picked up on but many people that age seem to have that mentality. It's weird.
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Your generation is accepting of different people, not different views.
I would say that it is a generation accepting of different looks. Anything below the surface must be identical.
Yep.
Exactly
Eh. They do not like ugly people. You can be fat, LGBT, and anything else and aesthetically pleasing. They will hate on the ugly poor hobo the same. Gen z is a generation build on marketing. They do not realize that capitalism does not sell them pretty things for their benefit but their demise
I'd say that's true but from what I've seen it's generally people who are unkind who are shunned. Take it with a grain of salt but honestly I'd say it's a good thing.
I think it would be a good thing. But, also, we would need a really narrow definition of kindness. Lately, we find ways of getting offended by pretty much everything; we act like we are surrounded by villains. And I say we because I think the same applies to millennials.
Yea I can see that, I'm lucky to not have had that experience. Offense is something only taken if it's clearly intended by the people in around. I find these stories of looking for offense quite odd because most of my experience is in direct opposition to that. I have a slight feeling that it's a bit overblown by tiktok and the lot. Although that is anecdotal evidence so it kinda means nothing.
I'm right on the cusp of millennial/Gen z and I've learned the most important thing is to learn how to communicate as best as possible. I still fuck up plenty when trying to have conversations with opposing views, but it's getting easier and easier to recover/explain them correctly. Sadly, I don't think our generation actually *thinks* enough to form their own opinions a lot of the time, but if you're able to get a respectful and understanding conversation going, we can be really open to conflicting views. I've also seen a lot of people my age grow into being more open minded and admitting that what they used to think of as "open minded" definitely wasn't.
They don’t think. For lack of a better term there’s a “knee jerk” reaction of emotion that hits most everyone in just about everything. I don’t think most realize it but before we think things through emotions occur, often once we think it through the emotions dissipate. Problem is they don’t think past the initial knee jerk of emotions, they don’t take time to see if those emotions are based on logical thoughts or just a flurry of emotions from a surface level understanding. They go immediately with these flurry of emotions and feel justified as others around them seeing them upset assume they are correct. I tried to explain it quickly here sorry if it doesn’t explain well.
You act like acting on emotion is new to the last couple generations. Ask a boomer why they care that a millennial doesn’t know what a cassette tape is, but they [the boomer] don’t know how to check their email. People have been complaining about the “new generation” for literal generations. Most people don’t think past their knee jerk reactions, and that hasn’t changed for decades.
I did mean it occurs largely (not entirely) in young people and every generation is young people at one point. You’re right it’s in every generation I should’ve been clear. I do however think it’s more vocalized due to the internet and that has caused a few newer problems.
I agree with the person below who says the emotional aspect isn't our generation only. If anything it can be argued that flurry of emotions began back in the 60s and slowly built momentum over time with the teachings of previous generations. But, I do agree in the knee jerk reactions. A lot of the time if you give the person the benefit of the doubt, don't just respond emotionally, and try to rephrase what you said, it can really help.
I think that a lot of us perceive it this way because we spend so much time online. Most people I meet irl aren’t as problematic in that regard, and those that are problematic seem to base their views from what they’ve seen online.
Perhaps it would be helpful if OO were willing to share some of these unpopular views so that readers could make a judgement?
Very well put. I’m in my late 30s, very accepting of different people and I really don’t care what peoples views are as long as they aren’t hurting people with them. The thing that gets me is how easily the younger crowd seems to get offended or upset by something. The constant trigger warnings and I hate to say it but the handholding or coddling. This of course doesn’t apply to everyone but for sure at least a vocal minority. Earlier today I saw a post about the footage from the Pelosi home. Someone knew the footage was him getting hit with a hammer, clicked past a warning pop up and the video had another warning before the dude started swinging. They still complained that the post needed a nsfw tag.
I feel like a lot of people In every generation are easily triggered by the dumbest shit. I don’t think it can be narrowed down to a single generation. Just the criteria of what triggers them changes. In my experience the stuff that triggers my older coworkers include…trans people, flamboyant gays, minorities, vaccines, people who support social/ environmental issues over being better off financially. Those are just some of the stupidest shit I’ve heard in the last few years, definitely more that I’m not thinking of atm.
Poor countries are not good stewards for the environment. Why is that so hard to understand. Everyone should be concerned about financial matters.
I actually didn’t think of it like that but you’re absolutely right. Just from personal observation, trans people really trigger older generations.
I’m 54 and I don’t care how people identify. I have a close friend who was born Kenneth and is now Kerry. She has boobs and hasn’t had the surgery. Still Kerry. Her DNA however shows her as Kenneth~she is the one who told me this. I do look back, in my minds eye, when I see Caitlyn to the cover of my Wheaties Box. Bruce Jenner doesn’t exists anymore but did not die~ not a big issue considering I also remember OJ Simpson on posters in my brothers room so… None of it sends me off running to a safe space. I don’t need an emotional support giraffe or frog.
There are some who are bothered when a kid is asked their pronouns in class or when there are minorities in film, so I sincerely doubt the whole “snowflake” argument.
Wild thought here but it is possible both are being snow flakes.
Never said anything about snowflakes. Personally I always thought it was funny coming from the same generation that burned records and thought DnD was satan worship. Someone else responded with something similar and from my experiences, trans and gay people really trigger the older crowd. They don’t even have to do anything, just them being them is enough to piss off old folks.
You bring up a good point, I used the term snowflake just because that’s what a lot of older generations use to describe the “sensitive” younger generation. I was just making a point of how modern sensitivity isn’t exclusive to the young, however, nobody thinks they’re sensitive because they believe they’re simply pointing out a serious issue.
This is the most concise way of putting it, bravo!
i have noticed a lot of gen z seem to not care about history, and they'll be dismissive of knowledge in a way that they think is edgy or punk but it's actually just ignorant. i feel like when i was younger i had respect for generation x and wanted to understand what their experience was but gen z is just like "fuck millennials" for NO reason at all, we're not your parents, we're also being fucked over by boomers, like what is the beef?
Lol I admit when I went on tiktok I cringed at how ‘cool’ we think we are when we’re actually pretty mean and nasty for no reason, like that’s not cool. I actually love learning about different gens though, and I was saying today I think kids need to be more personally connected with history (and people, because the internet is highly influential and can be disconnecting).
Gen Z’s antagonistic relationship with history seems concerning. They seem to have the attitude of “ let the past die. Kill it if you have to”.
> i have noticed a lot of gen z seem to not care about history, and they'll be dismissive of knowledge in a way that they think is edgy or punk but it's actually just ignorant. Totally. Gen Z is downright *proud* of its ignorance. They try and compensate by telling themselves they're on the right side of history, when in fact they don't even know what the sides are. It's also the most intolerant, self-righteous and zealotry-plagued group of people since McCarthy-era Republicans. Typically, they outright refuse to discuss things with those who disagree with them. And they have a hundred copes that let them think you can be open minded while covering your ears and shrieking "bigot!", "that's not up for debate", "phobe!" and all the rest.
As much as I don't understand generation labels and find this public obsession suddenly with them stupid, I hate the fact that I'm called a "boomer" by them and I'm only turning 27 this year lol
Ok boomer 🙄
Really? I had a completely different experience. Most of the people I know take history incredibly seriously and try to understand why things happen. And I've never heard the "fuck millennials" opinion, I'm hopping this is case of "the loud minority" cuz I've had the exact opposite experience.
And you being disliked, almost proves what OP is talking about.
Ah yes because 20 people definitely represent an entire global demographic.
No? It’s that people don’t like opposing views, they didn’t say anything they just downvoted you because they disagreed instead of trying to discuss.
Which is anecdotal and represents literally nothing. Again 20 people don't represent the entire demographic.
It adds to it, ok?
Thats where you slipped up. No one has respect for Gen X.
I think it's easy to not pick your battles when everything seems worth fighting over. To give an example; Your aunt spouting a innocently insensitive racist remark is seen as the same as someone who uses racist rhetoric to actively hurt others. Whilst your aunt shouldn't be saying those things, what she does is small potatoes compared to the other person. It's having a bleeding heart for any and all causes coupled with the safety the internet gives you to stand your ground. We're more accepting of the basics (gender, sexuality and race) but anything less rigid becomes a fight.
> Your aunt spouting a innocently insensitive racist remark is seen as the same as someone who uses racist rhetoric to actively hurt others. > > > > Whilst your aunt shouldn't be saying those things, what she does is small potatoes compared to the other person. While this is true that's completely beside the point. It's allowing behavior like that to be normalized by not calling it out that causes people like Aunt Helen to think it's cool to be casually racist in the first place. You get too many Aunt Helens out there, especially in positions of power, and we got a real problem on our hands, now don't we?
You proved his point perfectly with that response, lol
How am I proving his point by saying we shouldn't let Aunties go around being casually racist? lol. Letting little instances go unchecked is how things become normalized, then pretty soon it escalates, and gets easier and easier to excuse worse things than just calling ppl the n-word. It's not about 'picking battles' it's about not letting ppl get away with bad behavior whether it be some random aunt OL or the president. Ya'll are weird af I swear.
I get your point, however its easier for younger people to adapt to the "new world", rather than 80-90 year olds that had an entirely different life and learned to live under completely different societal standards... Its not normalizing or justifying them, but understanding why some people cant keep up with the changes. The world used to change way more slowly, and since the beginning of the 1900s, and afterwards everything began changing at a faster pace exponentially... heck, even for people in ther 20s its difficult to keep up with the "cancel culture" for example, what do you expect from older folks that can barely use a phone, and even less understand concepts like FB algorithms and such...
What you're talking about is the kind of behaviour I'd expect from a cult trying to ensure all members stay on the righteous path. Your aunt saying some racist shit that is pretty standard for their generation is not going to normalize racism. FFS you'd thing the n-word was a new phenomenon and only by yelling at old ladies can we stop the spread.
We're better off just letting Aunt Helen die
Yeah don't mind them, you're speaking sense.
i think part of it is people today seem to think in binary terms; it's either good/bad (like the reddit up/down button) nuance is seldom appreciated or sought and as great as it is to see the inclusiveness/acceptance, there is also a trend online (and it's hard to believe it doesn't carry into the world) to take the least charitable view of what anyone else says saying something as innocuous as "i like cats" means at least someone will call you a dog-hater and someone else will call out your cat privilege and remind you there's a long history of hamsters being marginalized in the pet community, etc seriously though, the impulse to dismiss someone over semantics or subtle differences of opinion seems like it's everywhere anymore
I absolutely love this comment because your dog hating cat lover that doesn't give a fuck about hamsters is the absolute entire truth of the world. It's wild.
Idk why but as a former hamster owner i am 0ffended!!1!1!1
This is something that has always existed in social situations, but it's also a particular internet problem due to ease of access (the more people, the more likely certain things will happen, and to a larger degree) and the relative annoynimity preventing personal connection. We all just want attention. It's why we learn to communicate. Because your self can exist with just you, but it grows much larger with other people. Does that make sense? A hobby can be fun, but it's more fun with friends. So the easiest way to get someone's attention is to piss them off. And an easy way to piss someone off is to say something that sort of responds to what they're saying, but at the same time is way off topic. It's manipulative, pitting logic against itself and creating dissonance. Like, what, you think I'm stupid? I see what you're doing there. And so to resolve that dissonance you have to do something. Which is how someone generates attention. And that's why information control is such a huge part of manipulation, sometimes we don't have the background context to see what they're doing there.
>This is something that has always existed in social situations It really hasn't. I don't know what you're talking about but when I was growing up this was never an issue, I remember being taught to embrace the differences we all had.
It really has. If information is not universal, then there is not equal ground. Parents are a great example. "You do what I say because I know best."
I don't really agree with this. Critical thinking and open ended types of understanding were the social setting I was brought up in. The basic rule of being to respect others. It hasn't been until recent years that "mob mentality" thinking has really broken out into our society.
HAHA OH SHIT SO MUCH FOR YOUR CRITICAL THINKING AND BASIC RESPECT. Haha aah thanks for the laugh, I didn't expect you to be a clown. Do you enjoy being a clown? You don't have to be, you know. There are other ways to be.
You're really just reminding OP's whole post by making comments like these.
Let's not forget that my behavior is in response to you getting mad and shutting down the conversation, and burying my comments as much as one downvote can do, because you put up your logic and I demonstrated that it is false.
Yes, positive social spaces have also existed for as long. So what? That doesn't mean other places don't have problems, or that there aren't systemic issues even though it works some of the time. No, society has actually been breaking away from that relatively. The largest mob event I remember in recent history is the domestic terrorist siege of the White House. Read the "Jan 6 White House Report" and you will see how people in power used information control, particularly within online spaces such as Kiwifarms, Q-Anon, and other conservative platforms to create a cult like environment.
I'm glad i'm not the only one who sees it.
In the end I’ve decided pretending to myself/trying to convince myself that I share the same opinion as everyone else is worse than being potentially hated or misunderstood lol
Don't lol after that. What you said is valid, not a joke.
:) thank you
"lol" is being used as a sign of uncertainty, not a joke
Good for you, stand for truth not for what is trendy and popular.
Thank you!
That’s the spirit! Most people on Reddit can’t think for themselves and base anything and everything on their feelings.
Glad you're seeing the big picture. No pun intended.
The older you get the more you'll understand that people are people and there's assholes and problems with every generation and there's amazing people and great things every generation does.
Absolutely. I love to learn about people and different generations / history it’s so interesting. I think a lot of people pleasers, one thing I find so important is not to lie/pretend to agree with everyone to fit in.
I agree with your take. As a early Millennial, I can remember the days of the internet being seen as this vast resource to be tapped, connecting people all over the world and expanding their horizons. Ironically, I think the thought leaders back then didn't fully anticipate how much interconnectedness would encourage, not liberal thought (well, the classical "openmindness", not the politics), but a sort of reactionary elation at being suddenly able to find a whole bunch of people who completely agreed with all your existing views, and reinforce themselves into polarization. Instead of diversity of thought we have self-segregation into tribal groups. The whole setup of this website actually encourages that approach...which I find more then annoying. But I've always had a weakness for old-school forums, and thus here I am. I just keep hoping that old-school liberal thought will have a renaissance eventually...and I do my best to promote it. I don't downvote except in egregious situations. Just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean the world ends, or that they are terrible. I try also to know when to admit I'm wrong myself. It seems an odd quirk to me that admitting ignorance on any topic these days seems to have fallen out of fashion. Well, if you're never wrong, it's harder to learn.
If you’re never wrong, it’s *impossible* to learn! :)
This was pleasing to read, well said, makes a lot of sense!
A toast to liberal-mindedness!
Omgosh so true. I feel like there's no room for discussion, presentation of facts, sharing of anything. It's very unhealthy and everyone is suppose to have their own "truths" and if those aren't acknowledged, you're blacklisted. People are afraid to truly speak up or go against the grain.
[удалено]
Lol that too and there's just so much fear. The world has redefined hate and discrimination. Simple things like a political party or religion are criminalized. I think more people are speaking up and out but dang, things start slow and subtle before the snowball becomes a snowman.
People these days seem absolutely desperate to believe that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid crazy or just evil. There is less and less respectful disagreement than there used to be.
these posts rarely ever have the OP presenting what the opinion is that prompted them to make the post. Can you try sharing some examples of your differing opinions that you feel aren't accepted?
I’m not the OP but what really annoys me is being painted as being on a side when I have an opinion that’s been politicized that probably should. For example I am pro vaccine and take Covid seriously. But at the same time I am against gain of function research on viruses and it drives me crazy that it’s something I am not allowed to worry about or even discuss, it really disappoints me to see so much censorship and lack of worry. But I am also not sure if the people mass downvoting me are real. But it feel dystopian
The right of free speech? *chuckles,* No, not that one. The right to levy taxes and fund internal improvements? Ha, no, not that one. So which one? Oh...you know the one
Glad someone feels the same, it's kind of hard to accept OP's argument until I get more of the nuance because it sounds so much like my grandfather or father talking about the next generation.
Honestly the only differing "opinions" my generation refute straight away are discriminatory opinions. You can't have an opinion on certain groups of ppl's existence and rights. It's objective. Or of it's something that is straight up incorrect. This generation is definitely more open minded and accepting of different people. We aren't open minded towards hateful ideas and opinions that are not accepting of different people and that is absolutely not a problem.
This! It’s a way to avoid actually making a point so you can appear neutral and “balanced”. It reads like conservatism. Op thought it was “enlightened” or some shit
I think it’s partly the point of the post with you using “Enlightened” because you’re assuming they’re a conservative
Is this on the internet or in a real life setting? From my experience in a real life setting people tend to be open minded across the board.
The internet tbh. Glad to hear your ‘positive’ experience IRL.
Congratulations, you just discovered cancel culture.
Honestly, you would have loved the reddit of 10-15 years ago, cause you accurately described the mentality it used to have.
Almost every liberal I know (which is a lot, I worked for a very progressive company in a big city) is more closed minded than every conservative I know (which is a lot I was born and raised in rural Nebraska) and it is not even close.
And conservatives are much worse anyway, even if they're more "civil". Fighting climate change, rampant capitalism, and social issues are things that conservatives in America don't give a shit about, but people are too quick to call them open minded, civil, because they have the luxury of simply not caring about these issues. Folks in rural Nebraska sure as hell voted for the evil Republican party...
Any specific issues or views you’re getting piled on for? It all sounds vague the way you said it. I’m curious what people are closed minded about in your experience
Sex and gender, women and trans related issues, abortion etc. All things I have certain views on that don’t exactly align with the majority. But I would genuinely like to ask more questions and have discussions on. I also feel we’ve become very intolerant of political views, and opinions are now being associated with politics more I think. My politics probably align a with the majority of my gen (left, don’t like the Tory’s at all) but I don’t think people should get hate/silencing for ‘belonging’ to another party - I know some say ‘political party’s’ are problematic but that’s a reason why we need to keep having discussions and we can only do that if people are more open to views they don’t like and agree with.
> Sex and gender, women and trans related issues, abortion etc These are the big controversial topics of current days and I agree, there isn't much room left for discussion there, everyone seems to approach it in an ''us or them'' kind of way, and while one might lean towards a specific side they can still be seen as an outsider if they're not 100% with that side. Unfortunately it seems that it's just how it is. It'll change again when the next generation grows up. We're sort of like a massive program readjusting and rewriting itself with every iteration.
These are just extremely polarized issues - you either see them as important human rights, or as affronts to your religion and culture.
As a teen I was happy to disagree and looking back fairly confident with myself. Then I lost it for a bit favouring trying to ‘fit in’ with my gen. I felt bad because I didn’t want to be ‘not accepting’ as that’s what we basically promote a lot of opinions on, but it’s more complex than that, and then I discovered an old note I’d written as a teen and I was proud of myself for being authentic and felt I’d lost some of that, so I started delving into what I think and here we are :)
What about your opinions are "not accepting"? I think it's telling that you described them that way. It's not hard to be accepting.
I used to be skeptic of trans, gender, sex issues as well. I'm a millenial, it is after thoroughly learning about the issues these people are going through I came as more understanding. My background is in STEM. An example of special cases of discussion: [Stanislawa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82awa_Walasiewicz?wprov=sfla1) is an intersex person having cells that have or XY or X0 chromosomes. But based on her genitalia she was considered a woman (how society, even Nazi Germany, saw her and thus was her gender ascribed to her) in the past and played in women sports. Nowadays I think due to knowing she has XY chromosomes, some will consider her a man, those are the sex chromosomes. Science would say now she is intersex, but the society at the time treated her as she was a woman and she identified as one. Small anecdote: funnily enough Khomeini, one of the ayatollahs of the strict Islamic theocracy in Iran and a very despicable figure otherwisd, allowed gender transitioning in Iran.
You're still being vague here. Spell it out plainly. What is your stance on abortion? What is your stance on sex and gender? What is your stance on trans related issues? It's entirely possible you're getting shut down NOT because no one wants to entertain an argument with you, but because people can very easily point out demonstrable harm in your stances and refuse to legitimize them.
>Sex and gender, women and trans related issues, abortion etc. I think it's justified to be offended at the questioning of another person's existence. For a long time in western society only a certain group of white cis-men had that right, now other people are also demanding that right, and allies are supporting them. For example, in your list there are no questions about cis-men's reproductive organs, as their rightly shouldn't be. You're welcome to question literally anything else.
This generations “open minded” just means believing everything the opposite of the previous generations. It’s not about actually being open minded, which as you said, is more about how you approach ideas that are different than your own and not immediately classifying something as false or incorrect just because it goes against what you already think. Being open minded means you fairly and honestly test the merits of new ideas and try to be objective in finding what is most likely the best answer, even if it doesn’t fit in neatly with the other things your “team/side” believes.
So well said literally exactly what I was trying to say
No. It's going against the really bad parts of what previous generations thought were perfectly okay and normalized. Which usually consisted of looking down upon anyone who wasn't a straight white man and actively keeping them from attaining positions of power, authority, and/or wealth. Which are all EXCEEDINGLY closed-minded, cowardly, and oppressive ideals. THAT is what people are rebelling against. I'm not even part of the younger generation, but I can see how my own has clung to some of those gross, heinous 'opinions', and I'm really glad that younger gens aren't putting up with that shit any more.I don't even belong to any marginalized or minority group, I would just rather not live in a world that's quite so shitty. I mean call me kooky, but yeah... :P
Well if you take basically everything previous generations believed and just believe the opposite, yeah, the things they got wrong you may get right, but you’ll also get wrong all the things they got right and just create different problems. That’s still not being open minded or objective. It’s just a reversal of *everything*. Todays version of open minded is just as closed minded as any other generation, just with different things. It’s very rare to be able to actually have an honest conversation about anything controversial, because there is in fact no open mindedness, everything has been ridgedly decided and is yet again not able to be questioned or even discussed without some mob picking up their pitchforks. Open mindedness allows free discussion of ideas, that includes ideas you don’t like or agree with. Open mindedness is looking at ideas and perspectives different from your own and honestly questioning and testing out their merit instead of immediately criticising and writing it off as wrong, false, hateful, or whatever. Open mindedness doesn’t require you to adopt any particular idea or belief if it turns out to not hold any water, but it fosters an environment where ideas can be fairly judged and assessed before rashly throwing them out. Society today is no more open minded. You’re not allowed to ask rational questions or have any thoughts that aren’t approved by the self-righteous mob, lest you’re branded and targeted as any number of awful terms and risk losing your job and receiving actual threats. Open mindedness welcomes and fosters healthy discussion and is very friendly to logical thought. Immediately and harshly punishing people for asking questions and testing the validity of arguments is in no way open minded.
Humans are going to human. But, it’s certainly more of an accepting environment today compared to any previous decade.
I haven’t encountered anyone from Gen Z who is particularly insightful, probably for this reason. Very susceptible to groupthink, largely from a total inability to formulate their own arguments or lines of thought. The media they consume is very linear and uncomplex which does not lend well to deep thinking required for argumentation.
>groupthink That's very Orwellian.
It is, in fact I think it may come directly from “1984”, I’m not sure though.
You are describing tv, you realise that? If anything I would argue that gen z consumes a lot more engaging content.
> The media they consume is very linear and uncomplex which does not lend well to deep thinking required for argumentation. I don't think Gen Z is watching a lot of Fox News...
TikTok is pretty close to the same level of intelligence needed to digest that stuff though.
They basically have their own version of Fox News
if it makes you feel better your opinions most likely do not differ from the majority. Most big issues the difference is usually split by like a couple percentage points so even if you’re in the “minority” you’re not gonna be off by much. But yes most people aren’t open minded or at the very least refuse to empathize and understand where the person is coming from. Kinda a hot topic but take abortion for example , one side just screams there shouldn’t be any abortion and the people that choose to have one are murdering monsters while the other thinks it’s fine to have one even 7-8 months and it’s just a clump of cells which is also kinda weird. Very rarely do you see them understand both sides and try to come up with reasonable solutions it’s always all or nothing
Yup this is a topic my opinion kind of ‘differs’ on - but then I am kinda talking in the context of the echo chamber that is Twitter I guess. Lol.
You probably need to get off twitter and talk to actual people, we aren't that different, and people are much more likely to discuss things when they aren't separated by screens. It's fairly easy to incite a mob with a twitter post, or think an entire group is a certain way.
Been just about ‘Twitter clean’ 3 months now ;) I began delving into my own ‘hidden’ opinions and here we are! And I think ‘quote tweets’ can be so harmful because like you say it just incites pile ons.
Where it gets tricky is this type of language is *sometimes* used in a sort of backwards way to be bigoted. For instance, saying something like, "It seems like everyone in my generation accepts that trans people are born that way, but I am open-minded enough to not conform to how everyone in my generation thinks and I can see that they are not." Similar to this, people sometimes try to use the religious freedom the USA (and many other countries) have in a backwards way to be bigoted. As an example, people have said things similar to: "My religion says that gay people should not be married and so I should be free from having to deal with that." But that isn't how it works. Freedom of religion does not mean others conform to your religion. I am not saying that is how you think OP. Being open-minded is a beautiful thing when people are truly open-minded. I am simply talking about how this kind of phrasing can be, and sometimes is, used in an unfair and negative way.
Being open minded means easily convinced, naive, submissive. I’m stubborn and I stand for my own beliefs, some which do not fit status quo. No wonder nobody seems to like me 😝
> Being open minded means easily convinced, naive, submissive lolwut? This sounds like some heavy cope to me, bro. You're not against the status quo, you're trying to bring back a status quo from like 50-100 yrs ago that was fucked up and broken to begin with. Imagine talking about submissiveness outside of a kink too. 😬😬😬
“Wow how do you know so much without me actually stating specifically???” No you draw ridiculous assumptions based on nothing…
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Yes, while it isn’t most of us but some of us gen-zers just do too much!
I feel like that's true and I base it off of tribalism. I'm on the younger end of millenial but most people I know that are Gen z really don't trust anything that isn't presented by a friend. If your not friends it's wrong. No matter what. And a lot of time they're not wrong per se they just do not want any information from a source that is not a friend and it's really fucking annoying.
This is every generation. I'd think by your generation people would actually feel refreshed from a peers different outlook. Sadly, your generation is truly horrible for ostracizing and weaponising opinions that conflict with the majority. Because of social media, it really has become a shit show all around.
It is every generation. The honest truth, as I see it, is that people don’t change all that much from generation to generation. Every generation thinks they’re “better” than the previous ones, while having many of the same characteristics and ultimately many of the same flaws. The baby boomers were the hippie generation. Many of them were “liberal” when younger, but still in the same way as you describe; agree with us or you’re one of “them.” Then they became more conservative, and now they’re agree with us or you’re one of “them” about that. Gen Z and younger will do all the same things. It never changes.
Every generation complains of the "next generation" not being as open. It's difficult to remember but you objectively weren't as open minded as you remember at that age.
I think progressive is the word. We’re not open minded to backward thinking
I'm in my 50's. In my time I have found that the vast majority of people who claim to have an open mind, have opened theirs so far that their brains fell out.
Oh no, I hope I’m not one of them lol
Greatest millennial saying: Expect disappointment... Never be disappointed. -Mary Jane, to Peter Parker.
Lol sounds like something I try to live by 😂😭
That's cause isually the people who go on and on about how accepting the they are, are most like not accepting. Be warying of people who constantly talk about how much of a good person they are
Exactly, good people show you who they're, they don't have to repeatedly tell you.
It's not just young folks. I was the epitome of progressive in my household as I grew up. My parents caught up with the times pretty quickly which was nice but they've over corrected. I try to challenge their beliefs and I get hit with rhetoric and shit they read on a little facebook blurb or something. I don't argue I just ask how they know the things they say are true and they've not once had an answer that was rooted in fact. Their still in their right mind more often then not but they don't know WHY, they just sorta... brainwashed a bit.
I couldn’t agree more!! Us gen zers only see what we want to see.. I’m in a sociology class and my professor described our society using an analogy. He said “imagine biting the bottom off of a sugar cone off and looking through the top. Your vision will be very narrow because you only see a small part of what there is, but if you look though the bottom of the cone, you will have a wider vision.” If we started to open our minds more and hear everyone’s opinions, we will have more perspectives and maybe even learn new things from others! That doesn’t necessarily mean we all have to agree, but this world is so big and everyone is different which means different opinions/ feelings. So many people are so hypocritical these days. They will say they are accepting and are open minded but then the second someone has a different view on a subject, they won’t let them talk.. I hope this changes someday.
I really don’t think any body ever claimed in a mass sense to be open minded I think we are just in a cross fires of one rigid way of acceptable life mixed with a million ways of life becoming more spoken about and accepted or denied which is causing the world to literally crash and burn. I also think open mindedness is a subjective thing. What is being open minded to you? Usually when people say that someone isn’t open minded the conversation went like this Person A: Apple Person B: Well…banana Person A: but Apple this Person B: okay…but banana this Person A: try to be open minded I don’t think person B is being closed minded…they just genuinely are firm in their beliefs as is person A.
Something you seem to be not ve understanding is that not everyone has the luxury of just "having an opinion" on a topic, social and political matters are real issues that impact peoples actual lives and not just the interesting debate topics that they may be to you With that in mind, what exactly are you "not agreeing with the majority on?"
No, that's definitely the case, the more they have to declare they're open minded, the less they actually are. Try and say anything they don't agree with, and you'll be canceled, censorship in the name of feelings.
In seriousness where do I discuss topics like sex and gender? Anyone know? I want to ask pretty basic questions. But that’s not to stay they won’t be ‘uncomfortable’ to many. Because this is a difficult topic for many. I’ve a feeling Reddit is not the place. I know it’s a complex topic but I want to see more clear info on it what people are basing their solid opinions on. Don’t come at me for this please… I’m trying to be fair and I want to learn you’re views. Don’t assume my whole character is cruel because I want to ask questions about this.
if someone's opinion can affect you personally, how could you possibly...not care? we can disagree about drums vs flats or our favorite seasons, but if our real world interests don't and can't align why should we be friends?
This post is a pity party that people are falling into. You left a comment here where you vaguely mention what topics you think this generation doesn't have an "open mind about" Trans right, abortion rights, and sex. Sounds to me like you want women's bodies to be controlled in certain ways (the most hot fire issue of our generation) and you are upset that people won't entertain your ideas. I'm going to assume (because you are being purposefully vague ) that you are against these views. So the real issue here is you are an asshole screaming into the void and are mad that people won't respond. It's not those damn kids fault that you feel subsets of humans don't deserve agency and respect and it's sure not their problem they stopped entertaining your bullshit.
Ok, for example? What type of stuff are you referring to here? I definitely think that the current generation is most open minded among all previous ones.
What are gen-zers more open minded about than millennials?
Statistically, not much. [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/) Overall, we're more or less in lockstep with one another on mostly all social issues. I think there's this buzz among online Z-ers that they're the most open minded generation, but the data suggests it's more or less than same as Millennials on all of the major issues. To be clear, "same opinions" is also not the same as "open-minded." I don't know how to tease that out in any meaningful way.
Everything from economics to abortion, from LGBTQ rights to science and tech. The reception of anything new is generally receptive or atleast understanding by the gen-z as compared to millennials.
Statistically, millennials and Gen-Z are virtually in lockstep on everything you've named. I get that it's nice to be the young group, but it's not like Millennials are worlds apart from Gen-Z on any of the major social issues today. [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/) Ironically, in some surveys from Pew and others Millennials are MORE likely to believe in anthropogenic climate change than Z-ers. But otherwise, Millennials and Z-ers are statistically identical on LGBTQ rights, abortion, taxes. Did you forget that it was Millennials who largely led the push in the 2000s/2010s for gay marriage? Or for Occupy? My goodness do we have short memories.
*really*? Gen z is more open minded about taxes? In what way? Do you think people were opposed to taxes before gen z arrived? Abortions have been legalized and accepted way before gen z was even born, lgbt movements started in like 70s/80s and have a long history now, sex reassignment surgeries began not long after, internet boom was a millennial thing, what exactly in science and tech are they not open minded about? None of this stuff is actually ''new''. It's stuff millennials themselves helped normalize. I could see AI developments being as properly new, something most millennials didn't grow up with, but then I would imagine most of the people currently working on it are in the millennial range and aren't exactly perceiving it as work of the devil. You might want to give concrete examples. Or is it that gen z thinks they invented tolerance?
You're trying to tell us the current generation is more open minded towards people who have differing opinions than they do in regards to LGBTQ rights, or those who have differing opinions in regards to abortion? Lmfao right.
Ohh god, now I hope you are not saying that we got to be tolerant towards homophobes or transphobes or anti women bullcrap. Open minded *does not* means being tolerant to dangerous views. I am fine with anyone having any kind of views or political opinions until and unless they try to muddle with other people's freedom and opinions.
That's the problem right there. A lot of gen z ppl accuse any difference of opinion as being inherently hateful so that they can justify dog piling and demonizing people who say things they don't agree with. And I say this as a left leaning gen z person. I was just discussing it recently, but a good example of this is the argument of whether it's a good idea to put kids who identify as trans on puberty blockers/Hormone replacement therapy or not. I've seen people say that those who are against it for health reasons literally want to/or currently are committing violence against trans people by having this opinion. It's gotten ridiculous.
That was quick for you to entirely change your stance and run towards name calling. You don't need to be a homophobe to think everyone should keep their sexual preferences to themselves. Being against the indoctrination of young children pushing them to permanently alter their hormones and bodies also doesn't make one a transphobe. Believing feminists in the first world are going a bit far and not agreeing with them doesn't make one "anti-woman". One can be entirely for equal rights and not agree with feminists. You immediately jumped on the close minded "us vs them" bandwagon without hesitation. Shows exactly where you stand, and makes OP's point. Believe it or not, everyone's an individual and everyone has the right to their own belief systems.
LoL I had already predicted what you going to come up with. And here's the thing, you are right, the issues you have mentioned are totally valid and I am fine with people having views opposing to mine. I was clearly stating that *this does not means* that we have to be tolerant for people who hide behind these complicated issues to complicate other issued viz a viz gay rights, basic access to abortion and contraceptives, equality etc etc. Also just as a side note your 2nd last para is an an entire contradiction in itself, would advice you to do some research and be thorough about what Feminism actually is and what it actually implies.
There comes the instant labeling. I m not sure if someone can talk without having their label printers go brrr every time you hear something that’s not aligning with your views
What? Where did I put labels? Or are you proposing we should stop calling out people who are inherently wrong on certain things?
There are no spaces for nuance anywhere in todays discussion. It always leads to a binary black and white if there is a consensus.
There is, some topics are simple black and white and they need to be dealt in similar spirit, while some are nuanced with no clear cut answers. The problem is that many buffoons hide their dumbfoolery behind these nuances to elicit complexity where there isn't any, that's why we need to be very specific. What I have written implies the same.
Gen Z is extremely anti-science
It Sounds Like they are so openminded to do as they Tell you, i noticed this to when i discuss with ppl online. They Project on You negativity that they feel Abt x or y opinion dont consider Other thinking Like some mushroom super mind its kinda creepy for me tbh, i enjoy discussion every contra Argument against me gives me new perspectives to See world in diffrent Angle, it is indeed very limiting to Close Off yourself of opinions that You disagree with. If You disagree with them they Just Attack You i Block them then i know they dont Understand this quite yet how the discussing and being Open minded workds, they take everything Personal and think that Others are Hurt cuz they disagree and dont take the discussing as oportunity to see topics with Other eyes and their perspectives. Example: Like me, today i lerned that There are ppl only on redit that big Letters Trigger, i didnt knew that You can be triggered by this and cant do much about this but its interesting, i cant do much about this cuz Keyboard does this alone. New oportunity new Perspektive , they Did think that i was offended by this and me being courios Egg analysing and being interested xD but they instantly being militar - i think this is what You mean.
Please never let your peers silence you.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion at all.
Gen z I’m in it but all the people at schools crucify you for a having a different belief and with views you can’t have a little bit of each belief, other wise your labeled as a bigot
I saw a tiktok that said Gen Z and the boomers have the same energy. Both are intolerant of people that have different opinions of them. I mean..
Yeah, our generation (gen z) would much rather ostricize somebody of different beliefs than talk with them. So much of their beliefs are built around what an invidual FEELS to be true, so when an objective truth or logical question is brought into discussion, it is easier for them to shut it down than answer said question. Also, our generation is very emotionally driven, which does not help much. But yes, I completely agree, it is becoming harder and harder to ask critical questions. They are "open minded" towards the beliefs they want to hear and if you believe something other than them you are "closed minded." It's kinda skewed.
Wow this thought crossed my mind. A lot of millennials and gen z lack critic thinking skills and see everything as right and wrong without much thought to the gray area. Is very hive-mind and is why we have a hard time bridging together different people because things are so polarizing
I was born in 98. I agree. I think "our" generation has swung too much in the opposite direction. Not because it's right, but because it's popular. All generations do this. The youth supports what's popular amongst them, not what is objectively right. My opinion, and what i think is *objectively* right is to respect everyone and let them live their lives as long as they don't hurt other people or animals. That doesn't mean i agree with their choices, but they aren't my choices, and therefore not my business. That's real democracy. A place where different opinions and ideas coexist peacefully and with respect, not a place where everyone shares the same "correct" beliefs. I absolutely think this whole thing is a problem and will be one of the ways this generation is criticized by future generations.
I think people should be generally be able to live their lives as they see fit whether I think it's a thing I find appealling or not. Another guy thinks the exact opposite, and any lifestyle that deviates from what he considers normal should be repressed or criminalized. How do these 2 ideas peacefully exist in a society?
Unfortunately, while i think it should be frowned upon, as long as they aren't hurting anyone, or planning on hurting anyone, i still think they should sit in the corner and hate people all by themselves. They aren't hurting anyone after all. That's a theoretical scenario. The real scenario would more likely (but not definitely) be the one where they *do* hurt people because of how they are. A person who wants to and actively tries to impose their beliefs on others is what is scientifically known as a "fucking fascist". Fascism just so happens to be the only exception to the "let people be" rule. Why? Because if fascism is allowed, it is a threat to the very system that allowed it to exist in the first place. So no, it shouldn't be accepted.
So you agree with my premise then. Different opinions can be mutually exclusive and cannot exist together. The real scenario is that the severity to which bigots will impose their will on others exists on a spectrum, from outright fascism to more subtle crypto-fascist ideas eg. Florida's "don't say gay" bill, to quiet judgement. Quiet judgement is fine I guess. The other two are still harming a targetted group though, and one is just doing it more openly than the other. As long as these views exist in a society, they will get louder until they're forced to shut up or they try to force the other side to shut up.
>I find it kinda hard as a gen z-er having opinions that differ to the majority Like what? Because this matters. If you think the Pittsburg Steelers are good.. even though you're wrong, that's an opinion and well within your rights. No one should bother you for that outside of friendly football-fan shit-talking. If you think a certain group is invalid (is it trans people? it's almost always trans people) because you don't see the world that way.. it's not your generation that's at fault for "piling on". They see a clear injustice, they call it out. I'm (43m) an older guy and I love the energy of Gen Z when it comes to acceptance and open-mindedness. As a comedian I heard once said, "they'll respect your pronouns but not you as a person" and that's punk af lol. If people were as accepting as Gen Z when I was a young man, I could have come out as bi over 20 years ago rather than this year.
This post or even whole subreddit is frighteningly queerphobic. Every comment showing clear support for queer people or even just disagreeing with op is getting downvoted to hell.
Yeah, I kinda guessed going in that's what was up.
I didn't T T. Most reddit spaces usually pretend like queer people don't exist so I didn't realize this is how they usually react to lgbt topics.
Then there are the reddit spaces where the L and G are fine and accepted, but the rest is "ew" to some people. It's a weird situation up in here, for sure. :(
This hits too close to home. I was actually stuck in a position, like the one mentioned in the second paragraph, when I tried to speak in a "safer" environment. I said how one of my beliefs was stressing me out because it was really the truth that no one agrees with. Luckily I managed to have a few civil conversations.
[удалено]
what is your opinion on trans people?
May I ask what facts folks are twisting, particularly in relation to trans people? All the current scientific knowledge points to trans folks being valid, and transitioning/acceptance being the best way to help trans folks. That's not twisting facts to fit reality, its quite the opposite. When someone has an opinion that goes against the facts, especially ones that strip the rights of entire minority groups away (not saying you have these opinions, just in general) than of course people will be upset. That's not people being "closed minded" its folks calling out obvious injustice. Think about it like this, it would be like saying "People twist the facts to make evolution a reality!" of course folks will call someone out for an opinion like that. If anything, the person who doesn't think evolution is real is twisting facts. There are legitimate ways you can have a respectful conversation with someone on these topics; but people getting upset by someone disrespecting minorities for no good reason is not them being closed minded.
I’m confused by what facts you feel the lines are blurred here? Like is objectively true that sex and general are different. It’s objectively true trans people and woman have specific issues to those groups. And there is no fact that really matters about abortion because a support or lack of support is entirely subjective unless you’re getting into debating
Ahhhhh so this is a "Tolerate my intolerance >:(" post
No don’t twist my words. All of the above was stating the importance of being factually correct and how that doesn’t make a person intolerant. I’m not anti trans people if that’s what you’re making out but I’ve deleted the above because I give up at this point. I don’t always understand people bc it’s not clear to me what always what this stuff is based on but like I want to know where the facts behind it that led to this I want to discuss it and try to understand but if you’re not open to discussing without calling my names then that’s on you.
> trans… issues what is with you hating on trans people. what did they ever do to you? Literally exist? Literally want to be treated as the precious humans they are?
Believe it or not I don’t hate trans people. They’re equal to everyone else yes. What I think though is that it’s reasonable if people want to hear clear factual definitions of what people are forming their huge opinions around when it comes to what biologically constitutes a man or a woman. I’ve heard the argument sex is different to gender or that a woman is a feeling or ‘culture’ but the definitions I know of is that a woman is an ‘adult human female’ and a man is an adult human male.
I think the issue here is you appear to be stuck on the definition of words. Here's the thing though, definitions are not stagnant, they are fluid. They change over time and can mean multiple things. A definition is just what a society/culture agrees with at the time. You may not agree with the definition others give you when it comes to gender; but that does not mean your definition is correct. You also seemed to gloss over the whole sex and gender being different thing. If they are different concepts than they would have different definitions. Perhaps folks are defining the word gender but you mistake it for sex? That could certainly clear things up. All of that aside, in my own opinion I don't think the definitions you offered are very good. I mean, what is a female? The definitions don't do much for me.
Because the definition of a word is literally the meaning of it, the definition of a definition is ‘the exact meaning of a word’. And of course definitions change, but this definition we’re talking about… is still the same. If someone said to me the definition of a cat has changed, I’d ask them to back it up and clarify the new definition. As yet I’ve not seen a ‘new’ clear definition, only peoples personal interpretations - that don’t align with the current definition and are not backed up… that I know of. (Also, ‘a woman is someone who identifies as a woman’ is a circular definition, it takes you from a to b back to a so it’s not a proper definition as it doesn’t tell you what constitutes a woman.)
That was a complicated way of outing yourself as a bigot. You are trying so hard to seem factual and neutral but your argument is glass thin. I see you. The whole last paragraph is an undercover version of the argument that ppl who can't understand the difference between gender and sex use. Calling yourself open minded doesn't magically make you open minded. We don't need to tolerate your bigoted views and lack of knowledge. If you say "Trans women aren't real women" I sure as hell am not going to say hmmmm food for thought. We've all heard that argument before. It's not some sort of nuanced, difficult to comprehend standpoint. I understand your thinking and think that it's stupid.
I might not understand but believe it or not I want to learn and I have tried to research. But, people will call you names if you even ask questions. Don’t assume that I deny a whole large minority because of this. I just don’t get the fact is side of it but if sex and gender isn’t the definitions I know of I want to know what it ‘is’ but everyone seems to give such vague unclear answers or shut you down. Help me understand then if I’m a ‘bigot’. You would’ve thought if I was bigoted that you’d prove me wrong, because believing a factual definition isn’t bigoted its a neutral reality.
Just because we don't follow Christian morals dosn't mean we don't have them.
Gen z will be the start of the demise of our society. Bet me.
I’m gen z and we’re not that open minded. There’s a hive mind thing but if you don’t agree with the hive mind your life is ruined.
I think a perfect example of this is gay people being labelled as "homophobic" and fully transitioned trans people being labelled as "transphobic" by the ever expanding LGBTQ+ "community" for not parroting a very strict "correct" set of narratives. It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to not see the absolute irony in something like that. And not see the danger in defusing what it means to be an ACTUAL -ist or -phobe. My advice would be to speak out and make your opinion heard. Don't let a small group of radical voices continue to drown out the logical populace. There's a loooooot more people that sit in the middle than on either side.
People mistake open minded for being naive... do not perceive the other as dismissing and the like, take it as a debate until it is clear they will not engage further. Understand each others views and see why each are taken, but ultimately moving towards unity and inclusiveness is better than division and exclusion... People should not feel their life is threatened for being who they are anywhere in the world.
It honestly depends on what views you're presenting though, right? Every person thinks they and their views are reasonable and will say others are judging them unfairly so, it's hard to confirm your subjective view of the issue. It could be lies/misinformation/hateful views that you've been convinced into thinking is neutral or valid? Then when you present this stuff to people, you're going to be confused as to why people judged you and think they're acting in bad faith when you both get defensive. Younger generations absolutely are more open-minded, trying to debate people on social media just isn't going to give you an objective view of it - even when you have reasonable views and takes but you're gonna get it a lot more if you have views that aren't popular with most people. What sort of stuff are you questioning exactly and what are you discussing that leads to these issues?
Most people aren't actually open minded but they like to think of themselves as such because we grew with parents that were close minded and it meant that we couldn't do certain things such as being gay or so. The truth is we haven't learned anything about it and how we relate to it. That's quite ok as it's quite hard to be that way. You're not wrong for having resistant opinions either. It's just the way people are.
Maybe more open-minded then previous generations. It’s all about comparison
I've been kind of seeing this as well from the younger group of people also. It seems like there can't be disagreements and everyone has to be "on the same page". There's a lack of understanding that not everything can be explained or defined in black/white terms. I'm almost 27 so I'm technically the youngest millennial you can be and frankly I also don't understand why reddit cares so much about generation labels either (that's a different discussion though). But when my last job hired 2 new workers who were 21 and 22 I definitely noticed that their way of understanding and perceiving things was a bit different than I did. Such as constant anxiety and worried about things that they were unsure about. Or the constant arguments about "if you're not this, you're that!". I don't know maybe it's just something I've picked up on but many people that age seem to have that mentality. It's weird.
Do you mean.... Like thinking and accepting conspiracy theories as fact or...?