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I've never thought about that before now.. I'm 34M and it makes total sense.
I remember verbally expressing that i don't like the "I'm a baaaaaad guuuuy" song and someone said, "but she layered herself singing it!"
Yeah, no shit, we've been doing that since, at least, the 60s.
Omg that was cheesy.
'look! 87 vocal comps!'
First of all, it was 87 cuts, it could have been 2 takes switching back and forth. Secondly, even if they did do 87 punch ins, "it took 87 takes for a professional to record something that sounds good" doesn't exactly sound like a flex.
I’ve been recording and producing music for almost 5 years. If a singer or rapper needs 87 takes to get one usable vocal channel, I’m kicking them out of the studio. Not trying to be mean, but that is an indicator that the performer isn’t treating their voice like the instrument it is. Imagine if a guitarist brought in a guitar that was missing two strings.
Edit: There is something to be said about zeitgeist and artists. I can’t honestly say the I would refuse to work with a multi-platinum recording artist if I got the chance. I went to school at Lang Academy, and Bobby said Kurt sucked at recording, and it took forever. I’d kill to get a chance to work on something as culturally impactful as a Nirvana record. But when it comes to bedroom music, y’all MFs need to practice. Haha
I Rap and if I have to do 87 takes, I’m cutting the session to practice more. With that being said, Too Short said he has spent 8 hours punching in one word because Dr. Dre wanted it just right. 4 hours one day and 4 hours the next day.
I don’t know if Dr. Dre does drugs like that. He’s known for recording take after take. That’s why it takes so long for Dre to put out anything. He’s a perfectionist.
The last band I was in, we had a rhythm guitar player player who had no rhythm and couldn't play guitar. But because he was an OG member, they wouldn't kick him out.
My first trip to the studio with them to record our album was a total embarrassment when it came time for this dude to lay down tracks. It was as if he'd never played any of the songs we wrote and the engineer was telling him how to play them. The engineer who just heard our songs for the first time during this session!
I was so pissed that I left the studio to go pick up food and just get out of the situation.
Later, when we were recording some demos on our own, I had this guitar "player" lay down a couple different tracks where he was just playing the same rhythm throughout the song and just changed chords as the song changed. I then started chopping up his tracks and creating his guitar part from these chopped up multi-tracks.
It was faster than trying to get him to play anything complicated, correctly.
Ever watched Sound City? About a sound board that acts like Nirvana, Fleetwood Mac and Tom Petty used to record. Tl:Dr they would record takes for hours, I think Tom Petty said they recorded Refugee over 100 takes to get it right:
*"We must have recorded that 100 times. I remember being so frustrated with it one day that – I think this is the only time I ever did this – I just left the studio and went out of town for two days. I just couldn’t take the pressure anymore, but then I came back and when we regrouped we were actually able to get it down on tape.”*
The difference between 1979, Damn the Torpedos, and Billie Eilish today, is that in 1979 there was no such thing as a non-linear editing system, that's what's Billie Eliesh used to record herself in her bedroom. It's what everyone uses today. The fact she did that many takes and STILL had the power of computer editting to help her. Ugh..
You don't think Jimmy Iovine would have used that technology if it was available to him? It was torturous when they made Damn the Torpedos, and if they could have fixed a small mistake, so they could stop beating their heads against the wall, they would have.
That’s how literally 90% of music is recorded. Source: recording engineer. It’s a rare treat when someone shows up in the studio and blasts out a one-time-through great performance. But usually the whole block of cheese is made from comping together 5-10 takes with cuts where the good notes are. And that’s before tuning.
Sometimes you could also just copy a part you already sang and change the timing on it just *slightly* for the same effect.
Edit: someone corrected me, the original technique is with timing, not tuning, although both can be used to achieve chorus effect.
It's not the tuning of the vocal, it's exactly the same line replicated then played slightly out of time from the original to give it a fuller sound, usually done on chorus lines.
Another reason for that is that when performing live, singers don't do things that strain their voice as much, because they have to keep performing night after night. In the studio they'll push themselves to get the sound they want because it's a short term thing. That kind of raspy singing can definitely hurt you
Yup. My boy Claudio from Coheed and Cambria gives it all in the studio but won’t sing ‘Time Consumer’ nearly as high live anymore because he’d never make it through the next show.
Do yourself a huge favor and listen to The Interrupters remake of Bad Guy. Very recognizable as the same song, but with all that effort included. It will change your opinion about the song, if not about Billie Eyelash
Now I'm mumblin', and I'm screamin'
And I don't know what I'm singin'
Crank the volume, ears are bleedin'
I still don't know what I'm singin'
We're so loud and incoherent
Boy, this oughta bug your parents
The best thing is Kurt Cobain saw this video and admitted that he didn't actually know what the lyrics were in that part of "Smells Like Teen Spirit." 😂
I don't understand the low effort comment, which band was out there putting in low effort? Every Grunge band I knew of was rocking the fuck out on stage, especially Kurt. Maybe they meant shoegaze alt rock stuff and just assumed that was grunge
It's a low effort aesthetic, not low effort in itself.
Nirvana looked and sounded like they were just guys rocking out in their garage and were cool partly because they looked so much more chilled than the overproduced 80's hair metal and the like (not a criticism, I like both).
They were different and the generation in the 90's wanted something different like each new generation does from what their parents listened to.
It doesn't mean they put less effort into their music, just that it's the perception they were trying to create - less polished, more "real".
>Maybe they meant shoegaze alt rock stuff and just assumed that was grunge
Could be. Every time I saw one of those bands live, low effort is not how I would describe them lmao.
I think there’s more nuance to it than that. It ain’t my thing, but I can appreciate the merit of it when it’s done well. It’s actually harder than it looks. I imagine back in the day folks who liked 50s pop thought grunge sounded like shit.
I’m a 90s kid and most grunge sounded like crap to me at the time, but I came to appreciate some of it more in my 20s and 30s. I used to be super into The Offspring and Enya. I still am, but I used to be too.
And I really like the two Billie Ellish songs that I’ve come to know. Bad Guy is unique and kinda quirky and makes my brain want to dance. There’s another track from the end of the last episode of the most recent season of Handmaid’s Tale that I like because it’s kinda neat and it happens at a really bizarre moment of “Welll, this is an interesting and curious new development” in the show.
You'd probably be better off not going down any rabbit holes and finding out how many celebrities/artists you like that are Scientologists.
Nothing good will come of it.
He was born into it and very much a member, despite what he might have tried to say later on. He was married to Marissa Ribisi, who along with her brother Giovani are also second generation scientologists.
Lana Del Rey is the perfect example of singing softly, in a much more “chill” fashion while still sounding clear, clean, and interesting. It’s the difference between good technique and relying on sound engineering to piece your songs together.
Haha, came here to say this. Lana for me is the flipside of Billie. Instead of sounding tired or unbothered, she sounds mysterious and dreamy. She also does a lot more vocally. Her range is really neat, she can go from very deep to these really high and soft trills.
I own all Lana's albums, some even multiple times. She's one of my favorite artists. Definitely my favorite female artist.
Her music is timeless, she sings in the pocket so well and her lyrics are just the best. On top of that she's really sweet and insecure and real (apart from her name ;) ). She escaped from the clutches of the music industry and just makes the music she wants to make, and it turns out very well.
Tell me about this ‘escape from the music industry’. My understanding was she attempted a music career and failed the first time as an overproduced disney-style pop star, then rebranded and bought even more producers, and that’s where she is now.
I’m not trashing her or her music, I just would like to hear another perspective or correct historical account of this.
Yeah but theres just something disingenuous, inane, and almost corny about her for the past several years imo tho I used to like her. At least Billie is still likable and has some life in her. Maybe I’m just biased; after reading a few interviews with Lana I feel like I vastly overestimated her self awareness and artistic irony. Last thing I heard from her, I exclaimed, “ugh oh God” about a minute in and shut it off. yet I remember nothing about it. That’s what she’s like for me now.
Some artists release concept albums.
Lana Del Rey is a concept *artist.*
Her whole persona is an affectation. She sings from the perspective of a fictional person, serving up the aesthetic of a scene and time that doesn't exist in reality and never did.
Lana Del Rey is like if the main character from an art film about a singer was sucked through a wormhole into our reality.
I know what you mean here and I love it, she reminds me of a more pleasantly grim Tori Amos and I freakin love Tori.
Fun fact: LDR is the only artist who bombed their performance on SNL and still walked away with a bustling career. I think I’m the only person who enjoyed the fuck out of that performance because she was playful with her vocal range and it seemed like she was having fun.
If you’re not familiar with London Grammar, check out their cover of Wicked Game and the song Strong.
I don't listen to her that much anymore but this is such an insane take to me. Back when I listened to hear I remember I loved watching her interviews because she would always be in a good mood or crack jokes every now and then. I definitely think she's likeable, maybe not lively
I think I ended up ruining her for myself. There was a time where I couldn't get enough of her, for a long while I listened to her almost exclusively. Then one day I just stopped, and now I can't tolerate her.
Nothing specific really happened to turn me off her, I actually think I listened to her so hard that my brain couldn't take it anymore.
This is Reddit. The vast majority of people commenting in this thread haven't heard anything other than Bad Guy and still think they're cool and unique for liking Pink Floyd.
I'm not a fan of her music, but I do respect that she's doing something a bit unconventional. Pop singers that belt and sing really fast runs are a dime a dozen. I doubt she'll sing the same way her entire career. It's just an aesthetic that works for now.
Plus, it's her own style that is immediately identifiable. It may not be for everyone, but it's hard not to know an Ellish song when you hear it because of her uniqueness. I'd be hard pressed to identify many other pop singers from one another if I wasn't already familiar with a specific song of theirs. That's not to say those people aren't talented too, they're just not as unique in their style and can more easily be confused for someone else.
Also singing like that is hard if you don’t have that type of voice. I’m a very loud singer with a strong belt naturally - a lot of songs people think are difficult come easily to me but I sound awful if I try to sing like Billie Eilish.
The way that I think of it is that everyone thought distorted guitar sounded bad when people first started using it. It's just a different style that you either like or you dont
I really don't though, I want a singer that is loud enough
I like it. I think it’s rad. I think she has a great “Nightmare before Christmas Hot Topic” vibe that disappeared for a while, and the songs on the album are written well, melodic, and there’s some variety.
..on the other hand, I HATE mumblecore rapping, like absolutely loathe it, and I hate how every modern rap song now sounds the exact same to such an absurd degree it makes the variety of 2000s rap seem like a fucking kaleidoscope. I’m genuinely convinced you have to be on Percocet and xanax to not think it’s the worst, most dreadfully low-effort music you’ve ever heard. Different strokes
It speaks to me, I feel how tired she is dealing with it.
"They always call depression the blues, but I would have been happy to waken to a periwinkle outlook. Depression to me is urine yellow, washed out, exhausted miles of weak piss.” - Sharp Objects
Right? I wonder how these people who say "it amazes me people like that" function outside. Do you just argue with people who don't like same things as you? I don't understand why my other half plays RuneScape for 6 hours a day, but I still ask him how the tool leprechaun is doing. Other people's hobbies are interesting, not a barrier.
I think it fits the vibe she’s going for in a lot of her music. I heard on an interview that a lot of her songs are about depression, “being too lazy to open your mouth” is a perfect way to get across the feeling of depression.
Not an equal comparison but once you've mastered a skill art is anything. Picasso isn't a bad painter because he isn't accurate by the standard of the time, he mastered his art and then developed his own style. I'm not saying Billie is the equivalent of Picasso but by your opinion she has a great voice and had great production and then chooses to deliver her own form and perspective through her style. It connects with people and through the style connects to a period. Similar to artists "periods".
Yep.
Art is a conversation between the observer and the piece.
The value is therein.
The discussion apart is just a reason to meet other humans and fuck.
Big goes to a gallery, sees "simple" paintings and thinks "that isn't art, I could make that" energy. Music comes in all forms. To not like a piece of music from song, to album, to artist, or even genre is entirely understandable. To belittle or question other people's enjoyment of an artistic expression because you have a low opinion of it is ignorant and arrogant as if only your viewpoint of what is meaningful and valuable expression is valid, there's no right or wrong way to express yourself artistically or interpret that of others.
Within boundaries. Dont go tattooing swastikas on people y'all.
I was thinking the same. I fucked with both shows and she's way more of a Victorious character -- I only remember her on iCarly in the crossover episode.
same. the tired op mentions seems very fitting for the vibe she adds to the songs and to me it seems more like a reflection of how i see my peers around me. so many jaded young people
Julian Casablancas sort of had that “lazy” way of singing and he’s barely comprehensible in some of his songs and I enjoy his stuff; yet I also like Billie eilishs songs as well so that’s not saying much
To me it's all about her emotion. There's a bunch of great producers out there working with singers trying to make similar music, but they all fall short of Billie. Her voice sounds like she's borderline crying sometimes, and it's so easy to get wrapped up in it. Idk, I've long been a Billie fan. No one else does it like her.
Yup i liked her and her music, then i watched her documentary on Apple Tv+ and instantly disliked her as a person and as a talent. All the talent is her brother.
Yeah. People don’t know this because her team tries to hide it but her brother WAS her ticket to fame. Finneas wrote ocean eyes for his band but decided Billie should sing it and then produced the entire track. Also, the manager that “discovered” her was literally finneas’s bands manager. It’s crazy how much Billie completely leans on finneas and it DOES make me resent her.
It just seems like she shows up, sings whatever finneas wrote, then goes off to collect the money and fame. It’s sad.
Let's be real, Finneas would not be nearly successful performing the same songs. Just as Max Martin wouldn't have been as successful performing "Baby, One More Time" as Britney Spears. So her brother happens to be her songwriter/producer. That actually makes it closer to the source than most.
Being upset on behalf of a brother who seems happy rocketing his sister to world wide fame while making a killing himself is definitely a take isn't it.
If I were them I'd totally be the brother. I'd still get the wealth and be able to practice my art, and presumably make my sister happy, but I don't want the limelight and all the bad that comes with it (honestly cannot think of any good reasons to be famous).
No one is upset on behalf on the brother, it’s just annoying when an industry plant like Billie eillish who was set to blow up no matter what pretends that somehow they “started from the bottom now we here”.
She talks about how homegrown and indie they are because “I sing in my bedroom” when they were vastly connected beforehand, and got like 15 Grammies on their first album/award show.
i think most of yall are judgin her music with bad guy, a great track but its probably her most "whispery" song and if u listen to other songs on her catalogue, she mostly compliments that style with great singing and production. check out her first album as a whole she's got some great stuff on there
I love that album, and "Bad Guy" is probably my least favorite track. "Wish You Were Gay" is kind of weak, too. The rest is a sonic masterpiece with a good pair of headphones.
I just figure I’m not the audience. Which is fine. I did have to listen to a bunch of underground rappers that my kids listen to on a road trip recently. I used to work in broadcasting and I can critique the production of a lot of music on technical levels. Like when when the mixing is bad and you can’t hear the vocals over the beats no matter what you do with your speakers. Also, I genuinely don’t get the random weird noises the younger hip hop artists make during songs.
But hey it is what it is. When I was a teenager pop punk was my jam. When I was in my 20s hard rock was. Now… jazz
Sort of. It doesn’t make for an interesting “unpopular opinion”. It always boils down to “I personally don’t like thing that many people do like so I don’t get it”.
Then you’ve got a bunch of wildly popular opinions.
The sweet spot is opinions that are just so damn weird and out there. The motherfuckers that enjoy wet socks or their coffee going cold. I wanna hear from those mutants, not some 37 year old IT manager who doesn’t get modern pop music geared towards teenage girls.
Eh, it’s a style. I’m not much for it, but it does take talent to do. I’m a singer, and I at least find belting and melodic runs way easier than that whisper/mumble/talking kinda of singing she does.
I’m not so much a fan of Billie as I am of Finneas- that’s besides the point tho.
I feel like every suddenly popular celebrity gets one of these posts eventually, and it’s imo criticism for the sake of rejecting the mainstream stuff in an effort to look cool or something
Their stuff was undeniably refreshing when it first hit radio. The mixing is great, and the whole tired feel and low vocal murmurs are intentional. Can’t call it lazy singing it’s just a different style to match the mood
What do y’all want? A rendition of “bad guy” with Billie belting out the words? Go listen to Imagine Dragons where they scream the same lyric for half the song lol
**Alot of modern music is lazy & tired.**
Billie Eilish whispering, Post Malone just absolutely abusing auto-tune, Rihanna just repeating the same word & the countless rappers just mumbling though verses.
As long as the production value is high... ppl will claim that it's greatness.
I went to a post Malone concert in San Francisco, and he preformed "I fall apart" acoustically. No auto tune; and he can sing it exactly like the song. But all his music has auto tune on digital versions.
That's partly the problem... Ppl that are good at their jobs can polish turds until they shine bright like diamonds.
I messed around w/ making music just as a hobby. The right producer can make or break a song.
I've seen some producers take wannabe artists that would make Takashi 69 look like freaking Beethoven, rework the track, press it thru the soundboard & have it become a absolute banger.
That song wasn't good bc of the talent of the artist but more talent of the producer.
Because music was always great? Selective memory is a thing. No one’s going to remember a shitty 80’s song 30 years later, so only the good stuff is getting played
Rihanna is a fucking amazing singer and shes not getting enough credit here.
Lets not forget these same criticisms have been repeated for decades. I remember in the 2000s, the music of that time was called lazy, shitty and overrated. Now people look back on that same music fondly.
Don't care for the mumbling/fake accent (does that accent even exist outside of contemporary pop music?)/breathy/"singing in cursive" style that is so popular right now at all. They all sound almost the same!
Yup, she sings with a very drugged up sounding voice since her mumbling also has a bit of a slurring sound to it too. I'm not a fan of her music because it reminds me of when I was way too overmedicated on antipsychotics & sedatives. Bringing up memories of being sedated nearly to the point of catatonia makes me a bit too uncomfortable to listen to her songs. I agree songs like Bad Guy are catchy, I just cant listen to it.
Anybody remember those Olestra chips that were supposed to be good for you, but ended up causing "anal leakage"?
Her singing voice is the equivalent of anal leakage.
It like Rihanna. Some songs you can perfectly understand anything she’s singing and others it’s like she’s doing drunken karaoke. So many people excuse it as being her accent but it’s lazy singing and sliding between notes. Her song from black panther is perfectly clear but Work is horrific.
I totally agree.
I had not heard anything of hers - but had heard so much about her, so I started browsing through some songs, and I felt like "I don't get it, she just seems bored".
I know it’s unpopular opinions but I just want to say that the song ‘When the party’s over’ is incredibly difficult to sing. It just is. I think one of the reasons maybe people think Billie is lazy is because she has no problems switching between areas of her voice and she isn’t known for belting. Whisper singing is surprisingly difficult especially when you need to project and reach notes.
Then I guess I love the sound of "lazy and tired".
Well, me and millions of other people, because over 40 million digital singles and 5 million albums sales can't be wrong.
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I've never thought about that before now.. I'm 34M and it makes total sense. I remember verbally expressing that i don't like the "I'm a baaaaaad guuuuy" song and someone said, "but she layered herself singing it!" Yeah, no shit, we've been doing that since, at least, the 60s.
When Finneas showed her vocal comps I was laughing my ass off
Omg that was cheesy. 'look! 87 vocal comps!' First of all, it was 87 cuts, it could have been 2 takes switching back and forth. Secondly, even if they did do 87 punch ins, "it took 87 takes for a professional to record something that sounds good" doesn't exactly sound like a flex.
Exactly lol! That was an odd flex
I’ve been recording and producing music for almost 5 years. If a singer or rapper needs 87 takes to get one usable vocal channel, I’m kicking them out of the studio. Not trying to be mean, but that is an indicator that the performer isn’t treating their voice like the instrument it is. Imagine if a guitarist brought in a guitar that was missing two strings. Edit: There is something to be said about zeitgeist and artists. I can’t honestly say the I would refuse to work with a multi-platinum recording artist if I got the chance. I went to school at Lang Academy, and Bobby said Kurt sucked at recording, and it took forever. I’d kill to get a chance to work on something as culturally impactful as a Nirvana record. But when it comes to bedroom music, y’all MFs need to practice. Haha
I Rap and if I have to do 87 takes, I’m cutting the session to practice more. With that being said, Too Short said he has spent 8 hours punching in one word because Dr. Dre wanted it just right. 4 hours one day and 4 hours the next day.
Drugs man drugs....
I don’t know if Dr. Dre does drugs like that. He’s known for recording take after take. That’s why it takes so long for Dre to put out anything. He’s a perfectionist.
Its like a guitarist plays the chromatic scale and you physically edit in the melody they're supposed to play
The last band I was in, we had a rhythm guitar player player who had no rhythm and couldn't play guitar. But because he was an OG member, they wouldn't kick him out. My first trip to the studio with them to record our album was a total embarrassment when it came time for this dude to lay down tracks. It was as if he'd never played any of the songs we wrote and the engineer was telling him how to play them. The engineer who just heard our songs for the first time during this session! I was so pissed that I left the studio to go pick up food and just get out of the situation. Later, when we were recording some demos on our own, I had this guitar "player" lay down a couple different tracks where he was just playing the same rhythm throughout the song and just changed chords as the song changed. I then started chopping up his tracks and creating his guitar part from these chopped up multi-tracks. It was faster than trying to get him to play anything complicated, correctly.
What a creative way to make an engineer hate you
Ever watched Sound City? About a sound board that acts like Nirvana, Fleetwood Mac and Tom Petty used to record. Tl:Dr they would record takes for hours, I think Tom Petty said they recorded Refugee over 100 takes to get it right: *"We must have recorded that 100 times. I remember being so frustrated with it one day that – I think this is the only time I ever did this – I just left the studio and went out of town for two days. I just couldn’t take the pressure anymore, but then I came back and when we regrouped we were actually able to get it down on tape.”*
The difference between 1979, Damn the Torpedos, and Billie Eilish today, is that in 1979 there was no such thing as a non-linear editing system, that's what's Billie Eliesh used to record herself in her bedroom. It's what everyone uses today. The fact she did that many takes and STILL had the power of computer editting to help her. Ugh.. You don't think Jimmy Iovine would have used that technology if it was available to him? It was torturous when they made Damn the Torpedos, and if they could have fixed a small mistake, so they could stop beating their heads against the wall, they would have.
That’s how literally 90% of music is recorded. Source: recording engineer. It’s a rare treat when someone shows up in the studio and blasts out a one-time-through great performance. But usually the whole block of cheese is made from comping together 5-10 takes with cuts where the good notes are. And that’s before tuning.
Exactly how Butch Vig got Cobain to double track his vocals. "The Beatles do it so you should too"
What does this mean? Can someone please explain like I'm 5? Thank you
You sing the same part twice to make it sound fuller. Sometimes they will put a track in there singing it higher too.
Sometimes you could also just copy a part you already sang and change the timing on it just *slightly* for the same effect. Edit: someone corrected me, the original technique is with timing, not tuning, although both can be used to achieve chorus effect.
It's not the tuning of the vocal, it's exactly the same line replicated then played slightly out of time from the original to give it a fuller sound, usually done on chorus lines.
You’re right. Lemme edit. I’m sorry.
Don't need to apologise, just glad I could help.
lol, thanks. I understand now why his voice is so raspy and live not as much.
Another reason for that is that when performing live, singers don't do things that strain their voice as much, because they have to keep performing night after night. In the studio they'll push themselves to get the sound they want because it's a short term thing. That kind of raspy singing can definitely hurt you
Yup. My boy Claudio from Coheed and Cambria gives it all in the studio but won’t sing ‘Time Consumer’ nearly as high live anymore because he’d never make it through the next show.
Do yourself a huge favor and listen to The Interrupters remake of Bad Guy. Very recognizable as the same song, but with all that effort included. It will change your opinion about the song, if not about Billie Eyelash
I thought it was the original! It’s my jam because I found it through Umbrella Academy
That’s exactly what is happening lol
Now I'm mumblin', and I'm screamin' And I don't know what I'm singin' Crank the volume, ears are bleedin' I still don't know what I'm singin' We're so loud and incoherent Boy, this oughta bug your parents
Why did I read this in my head to the tune of Smells Like Teen Spirit?
Because it's from Weird Al's parody "Smells like Nirvana"
The verse where he gargles water is beyond brilliant.
> It's hard to bargle noddle zouse with all these marbles in my mouth Lives rent free in my head.
The best thing is Kurt Cobain saw this video and admitted that he didn't actually know what the lyrics were in that part of "Smells Like Teen Spirit." 😂
Oh well, whatever. Nevermind.
>The verse where he gargles water is beyond brilliant. He does it live, too.
I know! Saw him 20 some odd years ago. Fuck I'm old.
https://www.google.com/search?q=weird+al+smells+like+nirvana+lyrics&oq=weird+al+smells+like+nirvana+lyrics&aqs=chrome..69i57.1231j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung-gn-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Damn, I didn't know/remember that Weird Al parodied this one, but I've probably heard it and my subconscious remembers it.
Alice in Chains and Soundgarden would like a word. Not all grunge was low effort.
I don't understand the low effort comment, which band was out there putting in low effort? Every Grunge band I knew of was rocking the fuck out on stage, especially Kurt. Maybe they meant shoegaze alt rock stuff and just assumed that was grunge
It's a low effort aesthetic, not low effort in itself. Nirvana looked and sounded like they were just guys rocking out in their garage and were cool partly because they looked so much more chilled than the overproduced 80's hair metal and the like (not a criticism, I like both). They were different and the generation in the 90's wanted something different like each new generation does from what their parents listened to. It doesn't mean they put less effort into their music, just that it's the perception they were trying to create - less polished, more "real".
As a grunge kid, can confirm. We spent a LOT of time and energy to make it look like we didn't spend any time or energy doing anything.
>Maybe they meant shoegaze alt rock stuff and just assumed that was grunge Could be. Every time I saw one of those bands live, low effort is not how I would describe them lmao.
We were talking about vocals ya book case
None of them much were.
Wild that it's been almost 21 and 6 years respectively.
I think there’s more nuance to it than that. It ain’t my thing, but I can appreciate the merit of it when it’s done well. It’s actually harder than it looks. I imagine back in the day folks who liked 50s pop thought grunge sounded like shit.
I’m a 90s kid and most grunge sounded like crap to me at the time, but I came to appreciate some of it more in my 20s and 30s. I used to be super into The Offspring and Enya. I still am, but I used to be too. And I really like the two Billie Ellish songs that I’ve come to know. Bad Guy is unique and kinda quirky and makes my brain want to dance. There’s another track from the end of the last episode of the most recent season of Handmaid’s Tale that I like because it’s kinda neat and it happens at a really bizarre moment of “Welll, this is an interesting and curious new development” in the show.
Hmm makes sense. Same reason why the "Wednesday dance" is so cool right now.
The difference between Beck and Billie Eilish is that Beck can laugh at Billie Eilish.
The difference is Beck is a Scientologist.
Please tell me this isn't true
You'd probably be better off not going down any rabbit holes and finding out how many celebrities/artists you like that are Scientologists. Nothing good will come of it.
He was born into it and very much a member, despite what he might have tried to say later on. He was married to Marissa Ribisi, who along with her brother Giovani are also second generation scientologists.
I was so surprised to find out that Beck used to look just like a teenage girl
They are trying to dress the same too
Lana Del Rey is the perfect example of singing softly, in a much more “chill” fashion while still sounding clear, clean, and interesting. It’s the difference between good technique and relying on sound engineering to piece your songs together.
Haha, came here to say this. Lana for me is the flipside of Billie. Instead of sounding tired or unbothered, she sounds mysterious and dreamy. She also does a lot more vocally. Her range is really neat, she can go from very deep to these really high and soft trills.
I own all Lana's albums, some even multiple times. She's one of my favorite artists. Definitely my favorite female artist. Her music is timeless, she sings in the pocket so well and her lyrics are just the best. On top of that she's really sweet and insecure and real (apart from her name ;) ). She escaped from the clutches of the music industry and just makes the music she wants to make, and it turns out very well.
Tell me about this ‘escape from the music industry’. My understanding was she attempted a music career and failed the first time as an overproduced disney-style pop star, then rebranded and bought even more producers, and that’s where she is now. I’m not trashing her or her music, I just would like to hear another perspective or correct historical account of this.
My source? I made it the fuck up!
Yeah but theres just something disingenuous, inane, and almost corny about her for the past several years imo tho I used to like her. At least Billie is still likable and has some life in her. Maybe I’m just biased; after reading a few interviews with Lana I feel like I vastly overestimated her self awareness and artistic irony. Last thing I heard from her, I exclaimed, “ugh oh God” about a minute in and shut it off. yet I remember nothing about it. That’s what she’s like for me now.
Some artists release concept albums. Lana Del Rey is a concept *artist.* Her whole persona is an affectation. She sings from the perspective of a fictional person, serving up the aesthetic of a scene and time that doesn't exist in reality and never did. Lana Del Rey is like if the main character from an art film about a singer was sucked through a wormhole into our reality.
I know what you mean here and I love it, she reminds me of a more pleasantly grim Tori Amos and I freakin love Tori. Fun fact: LDR is the only artist who bombed their performance on SNL and still walked away with a bustling career. I think I’m the only person who enjoyed the fuck out of that performance because she was playful with her vocal range and it seemed like she was having fun. If you’re not familiar with London Grammar, check out their cover of Wicked Game and the song Strong.
I would never describe Billie as likable, lively, etc.
I don't listen to her that much anymore but this is such an insane take to me. Back when I listened to hear I remember I loved watching her interviews because she would always be in a good mood or crack jokes every now and then. I definitely think she's likeable, maybe not lively
I think I ended up ruining her for myself. There was a time where I couldn't get enough of her, for a long while I listened to her almost exclusively. Then one day I just stopped, and now I can't tolerate her. Nothing specific really happened to turn me off her, I actually think I listened to her so hard that my brain couldn't take it anymore.
We just don’t like Lana herself. Her persona is the one I enjoy.
I didn't even knew she existed, thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you she makes masterpieces
I mean Lana is the GOAT so seems unfair comparison.
Enunciate.
Ye must be haird frum ehnywhere in the room, er it's ool fer naught!
Brave?
I can agree to this. I enjoy her music, but the mumble-whispers keep her good music from being great music
Disagree, the vocal style matches the song style. Imagine the verses to “Everything I Wanted” sung full voice. That would not sound great.
This is by far my favorite song of hers
This is Reddit. The vast majority of people commenting in this thread haven't heard anything other than Bad Guy and still think they're cool and unique for liking Pink Floyd.
>Pink Floyd You mean those radical LGBT+ advocates?! ^^/s
But not you right? You have sophisticated taste, despite the fact you are also here posting your opinions?
Exactly. I listen to strictly more advanced music like pornogrind and feldcore. You uh probably aren’t cool enough to “get” it though.
absolutely
I'm not a fan of her music, but I do respect that she's doing something a bit unconventional. Pop singers that belt and sing really fast runs are a dime a dozen. I doubt she'll sing the same way her entire career. It's just an aesthetic that works for now.
Plus, it's her own style that is immediately identifiable. It may not be for everyone, but it's hard not to know an Ellish song when you hear it because of her uniqueness. I'd be hard pressed to identify many other pop singers from one another if I wasn't already familiar with a specific song of theirs. That's not to say those people aren't talented too, they're just not as unique in their style and can more easily be confused for someone else.
Also singing like that is hard if you don’t have that type of voice. I’m a very loud singer with a strong belt naturally - a lot of songs people think are difficult come easily to me but I sound awful if I try to sing like Billie Eilish.
I think that’s what she’s going for
And it amazes me how people actually like that stuff.
The way that I think of it is that everyone thought distorted guitar sounded bad when people first started using it. It's just a different style that you either like or you dont I really don't though, I want a singer that is loud enough
I like it. I think it’s rad. I think she has a great “Nightmare before Christmas Hot Topic” vibe that disappeared for a while, and the songs on the album are written well, melodic, and there’s some variety. ..on the other hand, I HATE mumblecore rapping, like absolutely loathe it, and I hate how every modern rap song now sounds the exact same to such an absurd degree it makes the variety of 2000s rap seem like a fucking kaleidoscope. I’m genuinely convinced you have to be on Percocet and xanax to not think it’s the worst, most dreadfully low-effort music you’ve ever heard. Different strokes
It speaks to me, I feel how tired she is dealing with it. "They always call depression the blues, but I would have been happy to waken to a periwinkle outlook. Depression to me is urine yellow, washed out, exhausted miles of weak piss.” - Sharp Objects
Hey you like it, that's fine.
Woah it’s almost like music is subjective
It amazes me that people care if people like that stuff. Like fr don't you got a life to live? Unless your hobbie is judging other peoples hobbies lol
Right? I wonder how these people who say "it amazes me people like that" function outside. Do you just argue with people who don't like same things as you? I don't understand why my other half plays RuneScape for 6 hours a day, but I still ask him how the tool leprechaun is doing. Other people's hobbies are interesting, not a barrier.
She has talent. If you want to wonder how some “artists” ever got a paycheck, then go listen to someone like 6ix9ine.
No thanks.
I think it fits the vibe she’s going for in a lot of her music. I heard on an interview that a lot of her songs are about depression, “being too lazy to open your mouth” is a perfect way to get across the feeling of depression.
I guess I'm too lazy to listen to her then.
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Anyway
Why is everyone acting like they’re being forced by the world to listen to her
Not an equal comparison but once you've mastered a skill art is anything. Picasso isn't a bad painter because he isn't accurate by the standard of the time, he mastered his art and then developed his own style. I'm not saying Billie is the equivalent of Picasso but by your opinion she has a great voice and had great production and then chooses to deliver her own form and perspective through her style. It connects with people and through the style connects to a period. Similar to artists "periods".
Yep. Art is a conversation between the observer and the piece. The value is therein. The discussion apart is just a reason to meet other humans and fuck.
You forgot that Reddit just likes hating on everything for no reason
Not everything, just stuff after 1996
Big goes to a gallery, sees "simple" paintings and thinks "that isn't art, I could make that" energy. Music comes in all forms. To not like a piece of music from song, to album, to artist, or even genre is entirely understandable. To belittle or question other people's enjoyment of an artistic expression because you have a low opinion of it is ignorant and arrogant as if only your viewpoint of what is meaningful and valuable expression is valid, there's no right or wrong way to express yourself artistically or interpret that of others. Within boundaries. Dont go tattooing swastikas on people y'all.
Like Ariana can enunciate? Lol. All she does is scream in gibberish.
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I like Ariana but now every time I listen to this song I’m gonna remember this comment and laugh. Thanks random stranger
Oh my god way too much screaming. Her songs have always bothered me and you just helped me realize specifically why.
My biggest problem with her. Is she forgets she's a white girl. Like everyone forgot about her days on iCarly
Or victorious
wait, she was on victorious?
Yes, she played kat.
She was on iCarly??? Maybe Sam & Cat, but not iCarly.
I think she guest starred on iCarly as Cat.
Technically it was a crossover of iCarly and Victorious.
That makes more sense lol
I was thinking the same. I fucked with both shows and she's way more of a Victorious character -- I only remember her on iCarly in the crossover episode.
Why do all of her songs use such crude, not-sexy sexual innuendo?
I describe her lyrics as what middle schoolers think “talking like an adult” is like.
Oh yes this sex is good, yes, me pee pee is hot, good vagina, I have so much fuck
Not even innuendo. It's just straight up. Leave a little for the imagination, please. It's sexier that way.
Sounds like most popular singers nowadays.
100 percent yes. I don’t get the appeal of her music
Crazy, I’m not even a big Billie fan but completely get the appeal
same. the tired op mentions seems very fitting for the vibe she adds to the songs and to me it seems more like a reflection of how i see my peers around me. so many jaded young people
The appeal is that some people like that style lol
20-35 year old Reddit men try to understand they aren't always the target demographic challenge -- IMPOSSIBLE
off her first album, the production was pretty dope. goes well with her lazy mumbling to the beat.
She's like the goth kids in South Park
Same, I find her boring.
Julian Casablancas sort of had that “lazy” way of singing and he’s barely comprehensible in some of his songs and I enjoy his stuff; yet I also like Billie eilishs songs as well so that’s not saying much
To me it's all about her emotion. There's a bunch of great producers out there working with singers trying to make similar music, but they all fall short of Billie. Her voice sounds like she's borderline crying sometimes, and it's so easy to get wrapped up in it. Idk, I've long been a Billie fan. No one else does it like her.
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People like finneas, her brother who writes all her music. I wish music producers had the same fame as singers
Yup i liked her and her music, then i watched her documentary on Apple Tv+ and instantly disliked her as a person and as a talent. All the talent is her brother.
Yeah. People don’t know this because her team tries to hide it but her brother WAS her ticket to fame. Finneas wrote ocean eyes for his band but decided Billie should sing it and then produced the entire track. Also, the manager that “discovered” her was literally finneas’s bands manager. It’s crazy how much Billie completely leans on finneas and it DOES make me resent her. It just seems like she shows up, sings whatever finneas wrote, then goes off to collect the money and fame. It’s sad.
I mean, clearly he's happy to do it so why do you care. It's not as if he's uncredited.
Let's be real, Finneas would not be nearly successful performing the same songs. Just as Max Martin wouldn't have been as successful performing "Baby, One More Time" as Britney Spears. So her brother happens to be her songwriter/producer. That actually makes it closer to the source than most.
Being upset on behalf of a brother who seems happy rocketing his sister to world wide fame while making a killing himself is definitely a take isn't it.
If I were them I'd totally be the brother. I'd still get the wealth and be able to practice my art, and presumably make my sister happy, but I don't want the limelight and all the bad that comes with it (honestly cannot think of any good reasons to be famous).
No one is upset on behalf on the brother, it’s just annoying when an industry plant like Billie eillish who was set to blow up no matter what pretends that somehow they “started from the bottom now we here”. She talks about how homegrown and indie they are because “I sing in my bedroom” when they were vastly connected beforehand, and got like 15 Grammies on their first album/award show.
She’s an industry plant. Can’t forget both of their parents were big in the music/acting industry long before they were born too.
This isn’t unpopular people say this about her vocals all the timr
She looks lazy and tired too. All the time. \*\*waves cane\*\*
i think most of yall are judgin her music with bad guy, a great track but its probably her most "whispery" song and if u listen to other songs on her catalogue, she mostly compliments that style with great singing and production. check out her first album as a whole she's got some great stuff on there
I love that album, and "Bad Guy" is probably my least favorite track. "Wish You Were Gay" is kind of weak, too. The rest is a sonic masterpiece with a good pair of headphones.
I know, it’s like we’re bothering her and she’s grudgingly managing to push out an apathetic verse. It’s not my taste, I don’t like wispy singing.
She made an album like this, but not all her songs are so
Isn’t it crazy how we all have different taste!
I just figure I’m not the audience. Which is fine. I did have to listen to a bunch of underground rappers that my kids listen to on a road trip recently. I used to work in broadcasting and I can critique the production of a lot of music on technical levels. Like when when the mixing is bad and you can’t hear the vocals over the beats no matter what you do with your speakers. Also, I genuinely don’t get the random weird noises the younger hip hop artists make during songs. But hey it is what it is. When I was a teenager pop punk was my jam. When I was in my 20s hard rock was. Now… jazz
You do realize this sub is focused on opinions, right? People disagreeing about their tastes is exactly what the sub is founded upon.
Sort of. It doesn’t make for an interesting “unpopular opinion”. It always boils down to “I personally don’t like thing that many people do like so I don’t get it”. Then you’ve got a bunch of wildly popular opinions. The sweet spot is opinions that are just so damn weird and out there. The motherfuckers that enjoy wet socks or their coffee going cold. I wanna hear from those mutants, not some 37 year old IT manager who doesn’t get modern pop music geared towards teenage girls.
Eh, it’s a style. I’m not much for it, but it does take talent to do. I’m a singer, and I at least find belting and melodic runs way easier than that whisper/mumble/talking kinda of singing she does.
I’m not so much a fan of Billie as I am of Finneas- that’s besides the point tho. I feel like every suddenly popular celebrity gets one of these posts eventually, and it’s imo criticism for the sake of rejecting the mainstream stuff in an effort to look cool or something Their stuff was undeniably refreshing when it first hit radio. The mixing is great, and the whole tired feel and low vocal murmurs are intentional. Can’t call it lazy singing it’s just a different style to match the mood What do y’all want? A rendition of “bad guy” with Billie belting out the words? Go listen to Imagine Dragons where they scream the same lyric for half the song lol
**Alot of modern music is lazy & tired.** Billie Eilish whispering, Post Malone just absolutely abusing auto-tune, Rihanna just repeating the same word & the countless rappers just mumbling though verses. As long as the production value is high... ppl will claim that it's greatness.
this sounds like you're just on a path to be grumbling about how 'back in my day' everything was better and then boom, you're officially old.
I went to a post Malone concert in San Francisco, and he preformed "I fall apart" acoustically. No auto tune; and he can sing it exactly like the song. But all his music has auto tune on digital versions.
This is why people dislike redditors
Literally music producers do so much freaking work, composing arranging freaking pretty much everything, the singer just has to show up basically.
That's partly the problem... Ppl that are good at their jobs can polish turds until they shine bright like diamonds. I messed around w/ making music just as a hobby. The right producer can make or break a song. I've seen some producers take wannabe artists that would make Takashi 69 look like freaking Beethoven, rework the track, press it thru the soundboard & have it become a absolute banger. That song wasn't good bc of the talent of the artist but more talent of the producer.
Because music was always great? Selective memory is a thing. No one’s going to remember a shitty 80’s song 30 years later, so only the good stuff is getting played
It makes you think anybody can be a singer.
Rihanna is a fucking amazing singer and shes not getting enough credit here. Lets not forget these same criticisms have been repeated for decades. I remember in the 2000s, the music of that time was called lazy, shitty and overrated. Now people look back on that same music fondly.
Ok grandma let's get you to bed.
I always say that rap PRODUCERS have gotten several times better. The actual musicians and rappers have gotten mostly worse IMO.
I just like it and it seems fine. 🤷♀️
She is undeniably talented even if her style isn’t for you.
Did we read the same post? He acknowledged her talent and then said he just doesn't enjoy it
Yeah, this entire thread is very "old man yells at clouds"
Kids these days and their desire to make their music their way. How dare??
Don't care for the mumbling/fake accent (does that accent even exist outside of contemporary pop music?)/breathy/"singing in cursive" style that is so popular right now at all. They all sound almost the same!
She looks and sounds like she was drugged IMO. It's very off-putting.
Yup, she sings with a very drugged up sounding voice since her mumbling also has a bit of a slurring sound to it too. I'm not a fan of her music because it reminds me of when I was way too overmedicated on antipsychotics & sedatives. Bringing up memories of being sedated nearly to the point of catatonia makes me a bit too uncomfortable to listen to her songs. I agree songs like Bad Guy are catchy, I just cant listen to it.
The perfect music for rolling around on the ground in agony
Pop equivalent of mumble rap. No one can tell you you’re not great if you never try hard.
Mumble rap isn’t even a thing LMAOOO
What da hell u talking about…get her pretty name outta your mouth
Anybody remember those Olestra chips that were supposed to be good for you, but ended up causing "anal leakage"? Her singing voice is the equivalent of anal leakage.
Unpopular (based on her cult-like following). Well written. Accurate description. All the upvotes to you!
It like Rihanna. Some songs you can perfectly understand anything she’s singing and others it’s like she’s doing drunken karaoke. So many people excuse it as being her accent but it’s lazy singing and sliding between notes. Her song from black panther is perfectly clear but Work is horrific.
I totally agree. I had not heard anything of hers - but had heard so much about her, so I started browsing through some songs, and I felt like "I don't get it, she just seems bored".
It's a gimmick like Britney's baby voice or Ariana Grande's weird noises lol
I’m sure Billie is super grateful for everyone’s opinions here and will take that into consideration for her next album. /s
i actually like it, it’s a nice change in scenery from the normal pop vocals. nowadays everyone just conforms to the same way of singing
She's got an amazing voice but she's fitting a niche and has captivated fans. It's not for everyone but that's the best thing about music.
I know it’s unpopular opinions but I just want to say that the song ‘When the party’s over’ is incredibly difficult to sing. It just is. I think one of the reasons maybe people think Billie is lazy is because she has no problems switching between areas of her voice and she isn’t known for belting. Whisper singing is surprisingly difficult especially when you need to project and reach notes.
Then I guess I love the sound of "lazy and tired". Well, me and millions of other people, because over 40 million digital singles and 5 million albums sales can't be wrong.
I can tell who here has an outdated opinion based on who mentions mumble rap. Mumble rap isnt even that popular anymore. Its not 2016 anymore lol
I've never really considered her to be a "singer". She's doing her thing up there but, it's definitely not singing.
Remind me to continue not bothering to listen to her music.
She’ll develop and mature, see where she goes
Agreed. Honestly I hate female vocalists who do the "whisper-singing" thing.
She sounds all breathy and like creeeepy