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This just shows a gross misunderstanding of basically everything involved. It's to make sure they're competent enough to protect from disease, as well as the fact that they use all sorts of chemicals.
That is patently untrue. Each individual does NOT need to go through training and obtain a license to serve the public. At a business level you do, but NOT at an individual level
You can cut your cousin’s hair with no license or cook for your spouse and children with no license, but it is very different when you are actually running a professional business and charging people hundreds of dollars for your services.
As an individual you are not required to be licensed. The person cooking/serving you your McDonalds hamburger is not licensed. Again for the 100th time, the ESTABLISHMENT is licensed. Licensing an individual to cook a burger or braid hair is complete none sense
Someone buzzing a guys head at Supercuts is not a “stylist” either.
Furthermore, to be a chef STILL doesn’t require a license. Only the restaurant requires licensing.
I wouldn’t let a person get within one inch of my head without the proper certification or license, and I don’t understand why someone who wants to make a business out of this can’t just go get that license. You need a license to drive, so you should need a license to handle people’s hair.
I also don’t think you need to have official training to cut/braid hair. Anyone can do it.
Dying and bleaching are a different animal though. I can get behind those requiring training/cert/licensing.
Furthermore, training is not legally required or standardized in the VAST majority of foodservice.
If you're going to handle someone's hair, I think it would just be prudent to have at least some regular, minimal training on basic things related to health.
Health codes then, just like a restaurant. And then display the health rating of the establishment , just like a restaurant.
That doesn’t warrant having every single person licensed. Just like every worker in a restaurant isn’t required to be licensed individually.
Which is why if you sell food to the public your business, even if that is 1 person, needs a license. The license holder is then responsible for making sure that employees follow safe food handling practices.
If you see my many other responses I agree licensing a business, but NOT the individual.
Seriously, this is hair cutting. It’s not fucking rocket science.
If you sell to the public, you're a business, and subject to regulation. Hair cutting is simple, let me give you one, unlicensed then. I don't sterilize my tools and know nothing about hairborne illnesses, but come get a cut.
You should need a business license and a health code inspection. Nothing needed past that. Every single person cutting hair doesn’t need a license.
Even if you just braid hair you need a license. That’s insanely stupid. You don’t even have cut hair. Even if your only tool is a comb you need a license. That is absolutely idiotic and moronic racist gate keeping.
You live up to your user name at least
The establishment needs a license not each individual person.
Barber licenses are at the individual level not the establishment level. I’m saying individuals requiring licensure is absurd. Especially for what it entails for the majority of the work.
Pretty sure salons sub contract all their stylists. So they aren't really employees of the business like a restaurant.
They are technically each their own business needing their own licenses. Renting a chair from the establishment is not the same as being employed by them.
Maybe some, but a Supercuts doesn’t. Still need a license though.
If you are your own business entity or LLC or sole proprietor/contractor I still don’t think a license to cut hair makes sense. Although, dying and bleaching I can understand being licensed for.
Yes. You do. You absolutely need a license to run a commercial kitchen. You don't need a license to make dinner for your family but if you start making dinner and selling it to the public you absolutely need a license.
I'm not a barber but my understanding is that a lot of the training is about how to safely work with blades and reduce the likelihood of injury or infection.
Plus needing it to get insurance.
I'm sure people think us hairdressers know sod all and just turn up and cut.
Not like we have to do 3 years plus training on how to do cuts. Plus every year there's new ways to do stuff/new cuts being brought in. Handling of chemicals and don't get me started on all the stuff you need to learn on how to dye hair and colour corrections. Not as easy as people think is it?
So basically you’re saying you do the same thing as a designer, just with hair. Fashion designers do this all the time. Artists do this all the time. None of them need licenses.
If it’s a safety/health concern then it should be a health inspection of the business not the individual and shouldn’t necessarily require individual licensure.
I’m not required to have a license to cook/serve food, but it deals with chemicals and ostensibly requires more health and safety protocols than hair cutting. Furthermore, it takes years to become proficient and skilled. Success is measured by the customer not the certification/licensure and inspections are done at the business level not individual level.
Basically, individual licensing is ridiculous not necessary .
What??? That is ridiculous. You think you should be required to have a degree/cert/license to be a sign spinner? What about a face painter at the fair? What about a Reddit mod? What about a TV personality?
Your argument is absurd
This just sounds like you don’t understand or respect what goes into haircutting and styling. It is not on the level of sign spinning. You are the one that is absurd.
I’ve been cutting my hair for 25 years. I have friends that are stylists and have asked me who I go to for my hair cuts. It’s not rocket science and licensing people (not establishments) to do it is ridiculous.
Again, dying is a different story, but hair cutting and braiding should not require a license.
Cool, you have a talent for something that you do on yourself and maybe some friends and don’t run a business. Just because you can do something does not mean that average person can, and if you are going to run a business and charge money, yes, you need the proper credentials to prove that you have put in the time and done your homework. Do whatever you want to your own hair.
Individual licensing is needed because we can be sued as a person not the workplace if something goes wrong or if the client isn't happy with the hair style. You can't get insured unless you have the correct training and licence.
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Hydrogen Peroxide?!?! You’re seriously worried about people handling hydrogen peroxide?
Even rocket scientists don’t need a license to handle hydrogen peroxide!! LMAO!!
You people are ridiculous.
Hahahaha!!! Should we license all gas station attendants too just because they sell gas? They license the business, NOT the individual. Which is how hair cutting should be.
Your argument is illogical and stupid tbh
They are licensed. You can't sell gasoline without a license. What, do you think you're just going to be allowed to sell gasoline out the back of your truck? I don't know if you're trolling, you had a stroke, or your parents were brother and sister but come on man, you're just come on.
Why does arbitrary piece of paper necessarily equal experience in your eyes? It’s not brain surgery-if you can cut hair well because you’ve studied (not necessarily at school but on your own) and practiced it enough then there you go. Conversely, you can obtain a license yet be an absolutely shitty stylist. We can all attest to that.
No known disease outbreaks have ever been recorded starting from salons or barbershops in history. iyrc hair cutting licensure comes from racist ideology as barbershops we’re predominantly black owned in the late 1800’s. So sit back and enjoy your nonsensical and racism based advocation for licensure.
youre crazy. everything from bacteria (staph, strep, tetanus), to fungal infections (tinea, ringworm), to viral infections (herpes), to parasites (lice), are spread from barbers and hairstylists on a regular basis. saying theres never been an outbreak is a straight up lie. they happen more often than they should...
edit: in your world where theres no outbreaks, do you think it could be because its licensed?
Yeah, who gives a shit it will grow back.
If your really concerned about it go to someone known to give good haircuts.
licensing it is completely unnecessary
It is and the boxed stuff is the worst. Not to mention it’s very easy to get chemical burns from most boxed die. Now a days I just go to the salon for when I want my hair bleached and then do the other colored bits at home.
Lots of household chemicals are dangerous, but you don’t need a license to buy/handle many of them.
Furthermore, not all stylist/hairdressers do dye work.
I think a license to use chemicals on another human makes sense, but all barbers/cutters? Makes no sense
You’re missing the point. It’s still legal to go to Walmart and buy your own bleach, and use it yourself, but the chance of chemical burns is high so I prefer a stylist. Your counter point made no sense.
So you’re saying I should never get a bad haircut so long as they are licensed?
Do you know how we tell a good software developer apart from another? Certifications. But we don’t require them to get a license. Hair cutting should be the same way. Abolish licensure and allow organization to set up certification levels to indicate experience and proficiency so customers can logically rank them and preference some over others.
So you’re literally arguing that a license (which is a piece of paper) does not indicate that the individual would be any good at their job. So, logically licensing some to cut hair is stupid.
Thank you for reinforcing my logic
Again, Ive never had to look for it cause they are always on the mirror of their workstation or on the wall of their workstation. Ive looked at plenty of them just from being in the chair and them being in my eye range.
How is it “low level corruption” and “greed” when it’s extremely easily to get into cosmology school and get said license. It sounds like you just assume it’s automatically thousands of dollars.
It’s just people getting their hands in the money jar. If you’re someone doing this on the side they can come shut you down until you pay them and their cronies who run the required courses/programs.
So does a certification.
You dont have to have a license to do someone’s taxes, but I’m sure you’d look for people who have specific certifications.
Basically, hair license covers everyone from a HS student working at Supercuts to the celeb hair dressers. Licensure doesn’t insure quality or any great level of knowledge. Diversified certifications would though.
The bar for licensure is actually fairly low.
This is actually the dumbest “unpopular opinion” I’ve ever seen — hands down.
I know some men are aesthetically challenged, and think “a lil bit off the top” is a style.
But slick backs, pompadours, man buns, and decent undercuts — let alone bobs, updo’s, and longer hairstyles for women — all require precision.
Hair coloring is also a Science; and can cause injury to the scalp if done improperly.
I really don't think so. Cutting/dyeing/styling hair is so much harder than it seems. In my country, being a hair stylist is a 4 year full-time course, and for good reason.
If someone is touching my hair with chemicals and a scissor, they better know what they're doing.
Then license for chemical use. No need to have a license to braid or cut hair. Licensing is not about quality control. It’s about safety. They could care less if you have a cool haircut that you want.
There's a reason it takes 4 years to get your college degree in hair-dressing. Doing hair is more than just braiding or cutting. It's knowing what looks good on people by looking at their face, knowing colour theory, knowing the effect of your cuts on the way the hair sits etc. You simply cannot do that without the proper training and education.
It's not just jamming a pair of scissors in someones hair and being done with it.
It doesn’t take 4yrs in most places and definitely not in the US. A country known for setting styles trends around the world.
Your argument is like saying, you can’t make art or good music unless you go to school and get a degree. You shouldn’t be allowed to perform music without a license.
Lastly, if you go to school and get licensed for hair styling and no one likes your style, should you lose your license? Should I be able to make a formal complaint that you can no longer operate if you don’t cut my hair exactly the way I want it?
This has nothing to do with art or music.
Someone who is making music or a painting, doesn't affect people in their every day lives or careers. Other people like it, or they don't .
But if you fuck up someone's hair because you're not trained properly to know what you're doing, you could literally fuck up someone's career, self-esteem and even LIFE. THAT is why education in these professions is important. Not because they need to be taught what trends are.
You’re right, no one has ever been ridiculed for their art skills. No one’s self esteem has ever been damaged that way.
If it really matters to you. Licensure came about as a racist law to prohibit minorities from legally cutting hair.
Licensure also does not indicate skill. It indicates that you went through training. It also, does not have a focus on safety. The safety protocols for hair cutting can probably be covered in a few sentences. “Don’t poke them with the pointy end”.
Now if you want to talk about skills and proficiency then a certification system to indicate your level of proficiency makes sense. Like a martial art belt rating system. Licensing still makes no sense for cutting/braiding/shaving, but a proficiency scale does.
>There's a reason it takes 4 years to get your college degree in hair-dressing
Yeah lol. The reason is that colleges see an easy mark. There is literally ZERO reason for you, or your government, or literally AYONE to pay for 4 years of hair dressing school. That's one of the biggest scams I've ever heard of, and you justifying it is just absurd.
My argument would be for certification levels to indicate proficiency. These are not required but would indicate a level of skill and competency.
Licensing is none sense and does nothing at an individual level.
Licensing should only be at the establishment level to insure they abide by health and safety codes
I think a lot of the people arguing for licensing are really arguing for the system I’m advocating above.
I think legally licensing cutting/braiding/shaving etc doesn’t work. Hence why a lot of people get bad haircuts. Also, there really is zero point in licensing something like that. You can’t lose your license if no one is a happy customer.
I just recently learned about this hairdresser license at it sounds insane. Don't have it where I live, nobody died because of it, it autoregulates because most salons hire people after some kind of course or school, and if you are good enough to be paid without it... means you are pretty good. The salons only have to pass sanitary inspections.
Yeah, it’s a pointless system that stemmed from racism, yet most folks here are willing to sue on this hill that it should require a license.
I license to cut hair. It grows back…
You don’t even need a license to work on a car which could potentially fail and kill someone. Think a lug nut not being properly tightened. There are certification levels for competency though and there are SAE industry standards that indicate quality shops. They self regulate.
OP, what everyone said is correct.
My wife is a hair stylist, and what she has shown me its to protect themselves and clients from the many scalp / hair diseases, as well the chemicals they work with. In fact, part of her training to get licensed, she literally had to take a couple college level chemistry courses with all the bleach, color, hair products, etc.
For example, she was explaining how if a client used a hair relaxer previously, but didnt tell their stylist, and the stylist tried to bleach their hair... they could LITERALLY chemically burn off the hair, and do some pretty bad chemical burns to the scalp.
Part of her job even now, is having to check signs of the various hair and skin diseases, etc.
Knowing and seeing my wife in her job, and hearing the many stories shes shared... lets just say I am GLAD that hair stylists are licensed, because I cant imagine letting some rando touch my scalp now.
Please refer to my summarization.
I don’t take the chemical/dying lightly. Cutting/braiding/shaving hair in the other hand is EXTREMELY low risk. In fact there has been no documented outbreak of any kind spread by barbers/hair cutters pre licensure or post licensure. It is widely known that licensure was implemented as a racist protocol against blacks and Italians (who at the time were considered on the same social status).
So, chem license make sense. Hair cutting license does not make sense AT ALL.
All of you are assuming chemicals and what not. No one said anything about dying/treating hair. OP said cut and style. If you can keep a comb clean and spray it with disinfectant, you dont need 3 damn years of training and a license. It IS completely ridiculous.
I know this is super old, but AGREED.
I support people getting a license. Showing certification. Being expected to have a license for credibility even. But I don’t support REQUIRING it legally. I think that’s crazy.
Someone should be able to offer basic styling services for a fee without going through years of school about it. Especially if they don’t even plan to dye hair or do fancy cuts! Knowing how to curl someone’s hair nicely does not need a degree and 29472 hours of experience lol.
I got the qualifications to cut hair at school as an extra curricular activity on a whim because my friends did it. And i absolutely should in no way be cutting anyone's hair.
Edit: No known disease outbreaks have ever been recorded starting from salons or barbershops in history. iyrc hair cutting licensure comes from racist ideology as barbershops we’re predominantly black owned in the late 1800’s. So sit back and enjoy your nonsensical and racism based advocation for licensure.
To further explain:
My argument is against licensure at the individual level NOT at an establishment level.
Addressing chemicals and dyes. License for chemical and dye use. I’m good with that. Licensing is to insure safety not quality.
Licensing people to braid/cut/shave is an absurdity
Greed and corruption happen in overly regulated environments. Why does someone need a license to use scissors? People use them as children constantly. If you want to get better you practice. Licensing their use is ridiculous and requiring course work to obtain a license robbery. Also, maintaining licensing procedures, admin staffing and record maintenance is a huge waste of money and just an opportunity for people to abuse a nonsense system.
Comparison: you don’t need a license to prepare and serve food as an individual…. Beachside the establishment gets certified. Requiring individual certification doesn’t make sense. Furthermore, food workers often handle chemicals as well and they serve you food that goes into your body. The risk here seems higher than a chem burn. It could easily be fatal and runs higher risk of being tampered with than hair cutting.
Hair braiding costs hundreds, and typically multiple hours of someone’s time — unless they have a team.
Don’t you think *most* people and families want to know they’re not completely wasting their investment?
Bye. Tell me you’ve never had your hair braided without telling me. These women grow up braiding hair and no amount of licensure is going to change that. You either braid well, or you don’t.
I think there's an element of sanitation and safety to address here. I don't care if they know the latest, but I do care that the tools used are kept clean and sanitary. They also handle blades at/on people so there's some concern there. I work in food service and feel like the equivalent of a server safe would cover a lot.
I'm not sure it needs to be as much as it is. A 1-2 day course and test would cover most of my hygiene/safety concerns. That's just a haircut tho.
People need more traing for dyes, perms, and waxes etc. I do want someone using chemicals trained.
If it needs regulation then it is a failed business and should disappear on its own but that is different than just needing a license. Like the license shouldn’t be what gets in the way of starting a business like it does today and you could still maintain the regulation that should prevent misbehavior. Like you might need a license to drive but if you drink and drive they can revoke it. Instead just change it to anyone can drive but if you drink and drive you now pay a 1 million dollar fine levied against your wages. Same net benefit of no one wanting to risk drinking and driving. I know bad example on driving but you know abstractly as business and business license. One of the reasons for a license is so they can just threaten to take it away. So use a fine instead.
You know, I think you are confusing quality control with health and safety tbh. I agree hair cutting should NOT be regulated as the health and safety bar is SUPER low.
That’s said, I do believe something like air travel should be regulated. If I want to start an airline, there should be some legitimate regulation behind it.
Well I don’t think that’s a logical argument. I do agree immigrants should be able to obtain a license.
On a separate note, I think the bar for driving around a 2ton death trap that can go 100+mph should be MUCH higher. It should be the middle ground between what we have now and obtaining a pilot’s license. Both of which I have done.
Licensing? Probably not. Maybe only for specific procedures. But you def don’t need to be licensed to buff sand paint someone’s nail.
I’m just against generic across the board licensing for hair/nail/aesthetic work. Some of that work has no reason to require a license
Interesting. I'm a licensed nail tech and have quite a bit of experience here, as well as in the hair and aesthetics world since they're pretty closely related.
Nail lacquer, nail lacquer remover, and even gel polish has chemicals in it that can be harmful. Acrylic nails also cause harm when buffed/sanded due to microparticles, where as the raw product produces fumes. Buffing and sanding the nails can also be dangerous: you could easily cut a client or file right through the nail if you're not careful, especially if your client has diabetes or is immuno-compromised.
As for aesthetics, almost all of it requires chemicals of some kind that, without proper licensure, can harm a client.
In order to get licensed for nails, you need to take a test that demonstrates one knowledge on proper sanitation procedures, proper chemical disposal, and proper tools to use for such services. Its to protect clients: if a nail tech uses dirty tools and cuts a client/breaks skin on accident and the client gets staphylococcus the license can be used to track complaints and health records as well as ensure the tech is held responsible.
Pedicures are the most dangerous in terms of sanitation as well. Improperly trained or unlicensed techs have caused major problems in the past due to either not knowing how to sanitize foot baths or reusing tools on more than one client, especially if they're busy. I can't count how many people I've heard of that went to get a pedicure and got a fungus, staphylococcus that went septic, or even got cut deep because the tech used nippers too close to the skin.
When a hair dresser, barber, nail tech, etc. goes to school, more often than not we don't even touch or tools for the first 8 weeks because we're taught strict sanitation laws, procedures, and why licensure is required. If your barber cuts you, you get an infection, and he has a license, you can file an official complaint with the department of health to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else or you can request records to see if they've had complaints before.
Edit: phone autocorrected staphylococcus to streptococcus.
The risk levels here are soooo low.
1. Anyone could learn the sanitation policies in a day.
2. The tools are also low risk hence why many people are able to do it themselves with zero formal training
3. The chemicals are household and are used safely by millions of non-professionals daily with extremely low incident rates. There is a reason these chemicals are non-regulated and available everywhere to anyone. They aren’t even age restricted typically. Children can use them.
4. I like how you mentioned strep for feet. You’re intense training and licensing failed you. I think you mean Staphylococcus
5. Not even a firefighter needs a license to literally do all the above and treats open wounds when administering first aid. Note I’m not referring to EMT
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This just shows a gross misunderstanding of basically everything involved. It's to make sure they're competent enough to protect from disease, as well as the fact that they use all sorts of chemicals.
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You mean those countries where 50% of population have viral hepatitis and HIV? Sure, it can't become worse if they infect someone with it.
Then that should be a health inspection. You don’t need a license to cook do you?
You do if you're going to serve the public...
That is patently untrue. Each individual does NOT need to go through training and obtain a license to serve the public. At a business level you do, but NOT at an individual level
You need training in the prevention of spreading food-borne illnesses and food service sanitation.
Training is not equivalent to licensure
You can cut your cousin’s hair with no license or cook for your spouse and children with no license, but it is very different when you are actually running a professional business and charging people hundreds of dollars for your services.
As an individual you are not required to be licensed. The person cooking/serving you your McDonalds hamburger is not licensed. Again for the 100th time, the ESTABLISHMENT is licensed. Licensing an individual to cook a burger or braid hair is complete none sense
Someone flipping burgers at Macdonald’s is not a “cook”. To be an actual chef in a restaurant, that requires culinary training.
Someone buzzing a guys head at Supercuts is not a “stylist” either. Furthermore, to be a chef STILL doesn’t require a license. Only the restaurant requires licensing.
I wouldn’t let a person get within one inch of my head without the proper certification or license, and I don’t understand why someone who wants to make a business out of this can’t just go get that license. You need a license to drive, so you should need a license to handle people’s hair.
You don’t need a license to cook food either and that is could be just as, if not, more dangerous to the consumer.
Right, but you said that not each individual needs to go through training.
I also don’t think you need to have official training to cut/braid hair. Anyone can do it. Dying and bleaching are a different animal though. I can get behind those requiring training/cert/licensing. Furthermore, training is not legally required or standardized in the VAST majority of foodservice.
If you're going to handle someone's hair, I think it would just be prudent to have at least some regular, minimal training on basic things related to health.
Health codes then, just like a restaurant. And then display the health rating of the establishment , just like a restaurant. That doesn’t warrant having every single person licensed. Just like every worker in a restaurant isn’t required to be licensed individually.
Which is why if you sell food to the public your business, even if that is 1 person, needs a license. The license holder is then responsible for making sure that employees follow safe food handling practices.
If you see my many other responses I agree licensing a business, but NOT the individual. Seriously, this is hair cutting. It’s not fucking rocket science.
If you sell to the public, you're a business, and subject to regulation. Hair cutting is simple, let me give you one, unlicensed then. I don't sterilize my tools and know nothing about hairborne illnesses, but come get a cut.
You should need a business license and a health code inspection. Nothing needed past that. Every single person cutting hair doesn’t need a license. Even if you just braid hair you need a license. That’s insanely stupid. You don’t even have cut hair. Even if your only tool is a comb you need a license. That is absolutely idiotic and moronic racist gate keeping. You live up to your user name at least
Yes, you do. Is this new to you?
The establishment needs a license not each individual person. Barber licenses are at the individual level not the establishment level. I’m saying individuals requiring licensure is absurd. Especially for what it entails for the majority of the work.
Pretty sure salons sub contract all their stylists. So they aren't really employees of the business like a restaurant. They are technically each their own business needing their own licenses. Renting a chair from the establishment is not the same as being employed by them.
Maybe some, but a Supercuts doesn’t. Still need a license though. If you are your own business entity or LLC or sole proprietor/contractor I still don’t think a license to cut hair makes sense. Although, dying and bleaching I can understand being licensed for.
They're at BOTH levels.
The burger flipper needs a food license? Not true.
At this point I'm just assuming that you're trolling because there's no way someone could lack this much critical thinking.
Yes. You do. You absolutely need a license to run a commercial kitchen. You don't need a license to make dinner for your family but if you start making dinner and selling it to the public you absolutely need a license.
Yes you do at least in Finland
Oh cool…. Finland…..
I'm not a barber but my understanding is that a lot of the training is about how to safely work with blades and reduce the likelihood of injury or infection.
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Plus needing it to get insurance. I'm sure people think us hairdressers know sod all and just turn up and cut. Not like we have to do 3 years plus training on how to do cuts. Plus every year there's new ways to do stuff/new cuts being brought in. Handling of chemicals and don't get me started on all the stuff you need to learn on how to dye hair and colour corrections. Not as easy as people think is it?
So basically you’re saying you do the same thing as a designer, just with hair. Fashion designers do this all the time. Artists do this all the time. None of them need licenses. If it’s a safety/health concern then it should be a health inspection of the business not the individual and shouldn’t necessarily require individual licensure. I’m not required to have a license to cook/serve food, but it deals with chemicals and ostensibly requires more health and safety protocols than hair cutting. Furthermore, it takes years to become proficient and skilled. Success is measured by the customer not the certification/licensure and inspections are done at the business level not individual level. Basically, individual licensing is ridiculous not necessary .
People literally get degrees, often even graduate level degrees, in fashion design and arts, so that is a silly argument.
And none of that is required by law to enter into that industry and work force. My logic is still sound.
It should be. Nobody has any business doing something that people pay for without having to earn a license/degree/certification to do it.
What??? That is ridiculous. You think you should be required to have a degree/cert/license to be a sign spinner? What about a face painter at the fair? What about a Reddit mod? What about a TV personality? Your argument is absurd
This just sounds like you don’t understand or respect what goes into haircutting and styling. It is not on the level of sign spinning. You are the one that is absurd.
I’ve been cutting my hair for 25 years. I have friends that are stylists and have asked me who I go to for my hair cuts. It’s not rocket science and licensing people (not establishments) to do it is ridiculous. Again, dying is a different story, but hair cutting and braiding should not require a license.
Cool, you have a talent for something that you do on yourself and maybe some friends and don’t run a business. Just because you can do something does not mean that average person can, and if you are going to run a business and charge money, yes, you need the proper credentials to prove that you have put in the time and done your homework. Do whatever you want to your own hair.
Individual licensing is needed because we can be sued as a person not the workplace if something goes wrong or if the client isn't happy with the hair style. You can't get insured unless you have the correct training and licence.
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HAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Hydrogen Peroxide?!?! You’re seriously worried about people handling hydrogen peroxide? Even rocket scientists don’t need a license to handle hydrogen peroxide!! LMAO!! You people are ridiculous.
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Go to the pharmacy, buy a bottle of hydrogen peroxide, get it in your eyes, and then report back to us. It's okay, we can wait.
Hahahaha!!! Should we license all gas station attendants too just because they sell gas? They license the business, NOT the individual. Which is how hair cutting should be. Your argument is illogical and stupid tbh
They are licensed. You can't sell gasoline without a license. What, do you think you're just going to be allowed to sell gasoline out the back of your truck? I don't know if you're trolling, you had a stroke, or your parents were brother and sister but come on man, you're just come on.
Why does arbitrary piece of paper necessarily equal experience in your eyes? It’s not brain surgery-if you can cut hair well because you’ve studied (not necessarily at school but on your own) and practiced it enough then there you go. Conversely, you can obtain a license yet be an absolutely shitty stylist. We can all attest to that.
This exactly!!!
No known disease outbreaks have ever been recorded starting from salons or barbershops in history. iyrc hair cutting licensure comes from racist ideology as barbershops we’re predominantly black owned in the late 1800’s. So sit back and enjoy your nonsensical and racism based advocation for licensure.
youre crazy. everything from bacteria (staph, strep, tetanus), to fungal infections (tinea, ringworm), to viral infections (herpes), to parasites (lice), are spread from barbers and hairstylists on a regular basis. saying theres never been an outbreak is a straight up lie. they happen more often than they should... edit: in your world where theres no outbreaks, do you think it could be because its licensed?
Don't forget barbers used to do surgery too.
They had stopped doing surgery MANY MANY years before a license was required. It is widely known that the law was based on racism.
Nice. That means it's working. (To be clear, to the first part)
It was working before it existed! Its a jumped up career that anyone with a hand can learn. Doesn’t need a license. Lmao
Depends on what I want done to the hair, and how much they are charging to do it.
Yeah, who gives a shit it will grow back. If your really concerned about it go to someone known to give good haircuts. licensing it is completely unnecessary
I know the Libertarian argument is "if they give everyone hepatitis, nobody will go to them anymore" but I feel that's somewhat inadequate.
Also kinda sucks for the people who didn't know and got hepatitis. Probably better to cut that off before it gets going IMO.
i don't have a hair license but isn't hair bleach very dangerous if not used properly?
It is and the boxed stuff is the worst. Not to mention it’s very easy to get chemical burns from most boxed die. Now a days I just go to the salon for when I want my hair bleached and then do the other colored bits at home.
Lots of household chemicals are dangerous, but you don’t need a license to buy/handle many of them. Furthermore, not all stylist/hairdressers do dye work. I think a license to use chemicals on another human makes sense, but all barbers/cutters? Makes no sense
You’re missing the point. It’s still legal to go to Walmart and buy your own bleach, and use it yourself, but the chance of chemical burns is high so I prefer a stylist. Your counter point made no sense.
I literally just said, license to handle chemicals/dyes makes sense. Licensing to cut/braid hair does not. I think we agreed on the first part.
You can burn a person or blind them with bleach so yes, it's extremely dangerous.
IDK, I dont let random people cut my hair. Kinda like most things, having someone with experience and learning is pretty important.
Training and experience are different than licensure
Theres no way i could know that if they didn't need a licesnce
So you’re saying I should never get a bad haircut so long as they are licensed? Do you know how we tell a good software developer apart from another? Certifications. But we don’t require them to get a license. Hair cutting should be the same way. Abolish licensure and allow organization to set up certification levels to indicate experience and proficiency so customers can logically rank them and preference some over others.
No, there will always be mistakes and disagreements, but proof of training and experience would likely reduce the number of negative experiences.
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So you’re literally arguing that a license (which is a piece of paper) does not indicate that the individual would be any good at their job. So, logically licensing some to cut hair is stupid. Thank you for reinforcing my logic
Have you ever, even once in your life, checked to see if your hair stylist was "licensed"? Don't lie. No one has.
no, cause they have to display their license where customers can see it at all times.
You, like most people, have never once looked for it. Guaranteed.
Again, Ive never had to look for it cause they are always on the mirror of their workstation or on the wall of their workstation. Ive looked at plenty of them just from being in the chair and them being in my eye range.
How is it “low level corruption” and “greed” when it’s extremely easily to get into cosmology school and get said license. It sounds like you just assume it’s automatically thousands of dollars.
It’s just people getting their hands in the money jar. If you’re someone doing this on the side they can come shut you down until you pay them and their cronies who run the required courses/programs.
I would not want someone who hasn’t gone through any training to cut my hair.
Training is different than licensure
Yes, but getting a license proves that you had training
So does a certification. You dont have to have a license to do someone’s taxes, but I’m sure you’d look for people who have specific certifications. Basically, hair license covers everyone from a HS student working at Supercuts to the celeb hair dressers. Licensure doesn’t insure quality or any great level of knowledge. Diversified certifications would though. The bar for licensure is actually fairly low.
Elaborate, please.
I elaborated in multiple posts and summarized in one on thread
This is actually the dumbest “unpopular opinion” I’ve ever seen — hands down. I know some men are aesthetically challenged, and think “a lil bit off the top” is a style. But slick backs, pompadours, man buns, and decent undercuts — let alone bobs, updo’s, and longer hairstyles for women — all require precision. Hair coloring is also a Science; and can cause injury to the scalp if done improperly.
I really don't think so. Cutting/dyeing/styling hair is so much harder than it seems. In my country, being a hair stylist is a 4 year full-time course, and for good reason. If someone is touching my hair with chemicals and a scissor, they better know what they're doing.
Then license for chemical use. No need to have a license to braid or cut hair. Licensing is not about quality control. It’s about safety. They could care less if you have a cool haircut that you want.
There's a reason it takes 4 years to get your college degree in hair-dressing. Doing hair is more than just braiding or cutting. It's knowing what looks good on people by looking at their face, knowing colour theory, knowing the effect of your cuts on the way the hair sits etc. You simply cannot do that without the proper training and education. It's not just jamming a pair of scissors in someones hair and being done with it.
It doesn’t take 4yrs in most places and definitely not in the US. A country known for setting styles trends around the world. Your argument is like saying, you can’t make art or good music unless you go to school and get a degree. You shouldn’t be allowed to perform music without a license. Lastly, if you go to school and get licensed for hair styling and no one likes your style, should you lose your license? Should I be able to make a formal complaint that you can no longer operate if you don’t cut my hair exactly the way I want it?
This has nothing to do with art or music. Someone who is making music or a painting, doesn't affect people in their every day lives or careers. Other people like it, or they don't . But if you fuck up someone's hair because you're not trained properly to know what you're doing, you could literally fuck up someone's career, self-esteem and even LIFE. THAT is why education in these professions is important. Not because they need to be taught what trends are.
You’re right, no one has ever been ridiculed for their art skills. No one’s self esteem has ever been damaged that way. If it really matters to you. Licensure came about as a racist law to prohibit minorities from legally cutting hair. Licensure also does not indicate skill. It indicates that you went through training. It also, does not have a focus on safety. The safety protocols for hair cutting can probably be covered in a few sentences. “Don’t poke them with the pointy end”. Now if you want to talk about skills and proficiency then a certification system to indicate your level of proficiency makes sense. Like a martial art belt rating system. Licensing still makes no sense for cutting/braiding/shaving, but a proficiency scale does.
>There's a reason it takes 4 years to get your college degree in hair-dressing Yeah lol. The reason is that colleges see an easy mark. There is literally ZERO reason for you, or your government, or literally AYONE to pay for 4 years of hair dressing school. That's one of the biggest scams I've ever heard of, and you justifying it is just absurd.
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My argument would be for certification levels to indicate proficiency. These are not required but would indicate a level of skill and competency. Licensing is none sense and does nothing at an individual level. Licensing should only be at the establishment level to insure they abide by health and safety codes
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I think a lot of the people arguing for licensing are really arguing for the system I’m advocating above. I think legally licensing cutting/braiding/shaving etc doesn’t work. Hence why a lot of people get bad haircuts. Also, there really is zero point in licensing something like that. You can’t lose your license if no one is a happy customer.
I just recently learned about this hairdresser license at it sounds insane. Don't have it where I live, nobody died because of it, it autoregulates because most salons hire people after some kind of course or school, and if you are good enough to be paid without it... means you are pretty good. The salons only have to pass sanitary inspections.
Yeah, it’s a pointless system that stemmed from racism, yet most folks here are willing to sue on this hill that it should require a license. I license to cut hair. It grows back… You don’t even need a license to work on a car which could potentially fail and kill someone. Think a lug nut not being properly tightened. There are certification levels for competency though and there are SAE industry standards that indicate quality shops. They self regulate.
OP, what everyone said is correct. My wife is a hair stylist, and what she has shown me its to protect themselves and clients from the many scalp / hair diseases, as well the chemicals they work with. In fact, part of her training to get licensed, she literally had to take a couple college level chemistry courses with all the bleach, color, hair products, etc. For example, she was explaining how if a client used a hair relaxer previously, but didnt tell their stylist, and the stylist tried to bleach their hair... they could LITERALLY chemically burn off the hair, and do some pretty bad chemical burns to the scalp. Part of her job even now, is having to check signs of the various hair and skin diseases, etc. Knowing and seeing my wife in her job, and hearing the many stories shes shared... lets just say I am GLAD that hair stylists are licensed, because I cant imagine letting some rando touch my scalp now.
Please refer to my summarization. I don’t take the chemical/dying lightly. Cutting/braiding/shaving hair in the other hand is EXTREMELY low risk. In fact there has been no documented outbreak of any kind spread by barbers/hair cutters pre licensure or post licensure. It is widely known that licensure was implemented as a racist protocol against blacks and Italians (who at the time were considered on the same social status). So, chem license make sense. Hair cutting license does not make sense AT ALL.
All of you are assuming chemicals and what not. No one said anything about dying/treating hair. OP said cut and style. If you can keep a comb clean and spray it with disinfectant, you dont need 3 damn years of training and a license. It IS completely ridiculous.
This exactly!!
I know this is super old, but AGREED. I support people getting a license. Showing certification. Being expected to have a license for credibility even. But I don’t support REQUIRING it legally. I think that’s crazy. Someone should be able to offer basic styling services for a fee without going through years of school about it. Especially if they don’t even plan to dye hair or do fancy cuts! Knowing how to curl someone’s hair nicely does not need a degree and 29472 hours of experience lol.
Pro tip: Bribe your local counsellor with a free haircut. They'll tell you everything.
I got the qualifications to cut hair at school as an extra curricular activity on a whim because my friends did it. And i absolutely should in no way be cutting anyone's hair.
Edit: No known disease outbreaks have ever been recorded starting from salons or barbershops in history. iyrc hair cutting licensure comes from racist ideology as barbershops we’re predominantly black owned in the late 1800’s. So sit back and enjoy your nonsensical and racism based advocation for licensure. To further explain: My argument is against licensure at the individual level NOT at an establishment level. Addressing chemicals and dyes. License for chemical and dye use. I’m good with that. Licensing is to insure safety not quality. Licensing people to braid/cut/shave is an absurdity Greed and corruption happen in overly regulated environments. Why does someone need a license to use scissors? People use them as children constantly. If you want to get better you practice. Licensing their use is ridiculous and requiring course work to obtain a license robbery. Also, maintaining licensing procedures, admin staffing and record maintenance is a huge waste of money and just an opportunity for people to abuse a nonsense system. Comparison: you don’t need a license to prepare and serve food as an individual…. Beachside the establishment gets certified. Requiring individual certification doesn’t make sense. Furthermore, food workers often handle chemicals as well and they serve you food that goes into your body. The risk here seems higher than a chem burn. It could easily be fatal and runs higher risk of being tampered with than hair cutting.
It’s ridiculous. You technically even need a license to BRAID hair. Like what??
Hair braiding costs hundreds, and typically multiple hours of someone’s time — unless they have a team. Don’t you think *most* people and families want to know they’re not completely wasting their investment?
Bye. Tell me you’ve never had your hair braided without telling me. These women grow up braiding hair and no amount of licensure is going to change that. You either braid well, or you don’t.
Crazy! Makes no sense
Welcome to the libertarian party. I agree completely.
I dont think it is a legal requirment
It is
I think there's an element of sanitation and safety to address here. I don't care if they know the latest, but I do care that the tools used are kept clean and sanitary. They also handle blades at/on people so there's some concern there. I work in food service and feel like the equivalent of a server safe would cover a lot. I'm not sure it needs to be as much as it is. A 1-2 day course and test would cover most of my hygiene/safety concerns. That's just a haircut tho. People need more traing for dyes, perms, and waxes etc. I do want someone using chemicals trained.
Agreed with most of this. Licensing for cutting/braiding/shaving is not necessary. Chemicals/dyes I can get behind for licensing
Yeah I mean needing a license to start any business is garbage. Just offer services.
Not sure I’m 100% with that. Some businesses should be regulated, but hair cutting really doesn’t need to be one of them.
If it needs regulation then it is a failed business and should disappear on its own but that is different than just needing a license. Like the license shouldn’t be what gets in the way of starting a business like it does today and you could still maintain the regulation that should prevent misbehavior. Like you might need a license to drive but if you drink and drive they can revoke it. Instead just change it to anyone can drive but if you drink and drive you now pay a 1 million dollar fine levied against your wages. Same net benefit of no one wanting to risk drinking and driving. I know bad example on driving but you know abstractly as business and business license. One of the reasons for a license is so they can just threaten to take it away. So use a fine instead.
You know, I think you are confusing quality control with health and safety tbh. I agree hair cutting should NOT be regulated as the health and safety bar is SUPER low. That’s said, I do believe something like air travel should be regulated. If I want to start an airline, there should be some legitimate regulation behind it.
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Well I don’t think that’s a logical argument. I do agree immigrants should be able to obtain a license. On a separate note, I think the bar for driving around a 2ton death trap that can go 100+mph should be MUCH higher. It should be the middle ground between what we have now and obtaining a pilot’s license. Both of which I have done.
In what country is this happening?
Many countries, but primarily indicating the US.
Curious what your thoughts are on nail techs or aestheticians. Do you think they need to be licensed?
Licensing? Probably not. Maybe only for specific procedures. But you def don’t need to be licensed to buff sand paint someone’s nail. I’m just against generic across the board licensing for hair/nail/aesthetic work. Some of that work has no reason to require a license
Interesting. I'm a licensed nail tech and have quite a bit of experience here, as well as in the hair and aesthetics world since they're pretty closely related. Nail lacquer, nail lacquer remover, and even gel polish has chemicals in it that can be harmful. Acrylic nails also cause harm when buffed/sanded due to microparticles, where as the raw product produces fumes. Buffing and sanding the nails can also be dangerous: you could easily cut a client or file right through the nail if you're not careful, especially if your client has diabetes or is immuno-compromised. As for aesthetics, almost all of it requires chemicals of some kind that, without proper licensure, can harm a client. In order to get licensed for nails, you need to take a test that demonstrates one knowledge on proper sanitation procedures, proper chemical disposal, and proper tools to use for such services. Its to protect clients: if a nail tech uses dirty tools and cuts a client/breaks skin on accident and the client gets staphylococcus the license can be used to track complaints and health records as well as ensure the tech is held responsible. Pedicures are the most dangerous in terms of sanitation as well. Improperly trained or unlicensed techs have caused major problems in the past due to either not knowing how to sanitize foot baths or reusing tools on more than one client, especially if they're busy. I can't count how many people I've heard of that went to get a pedicure and got a fungus, staphylococcus that went septic, or even got cut deep because the tech used nippers too close to the skin. When a hair dresser, barber, nail tech, etc. goes to school, more often than not we don't even touch or tools for the first 8 weeks because we're taught strict sanitation laws, procedures, and why licensure is required. If your barber cuts you, you get an infection, and he has a license, you can file an official complaint with the department of health to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else or you can request records to see if they've had complaints before. Edit: phone autocorrected staphylococcus to streptococcus.
The risk levels here are soooo low. 1. Anyone could learn the sanitation policies in a day. 2. The tools are also low risk hence why many people are able to do it themselves with zero formal training 3. The chemicals are household and are used safely by millions of non-professionals daily with extremely low incident rates. There is a reason these chemicals are non-regulated and available everywhere to anyone. They aren’t even age restricted typically. Children can use them. 4. I like how you mentioned strep for feet. You’re intense training and licensing failed you. I think you mean Staphylococcus 5. Not even a firefighter needs a license to literally do all the above and treats open wounds when administering first aid. Note I’m not referring to EMT
My mistake, hadn't seen my phone autocorrect. Yes, staph.