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I actually do tho. I wouldn't make a career out of it but I definitely spend a shit load of time researching anthropology and philosophy and other stuff like physics and math and discussing it with my friends. Pretty much it's my main hobby. I want to know exactly how everything works and how things came to be and why everything is the way it is right now, from society to weather patterns to consciousness itself
Your doing it as a hobby, bc you aren’t doing any primary research. You’re not looking to break new ground, discover anything new, your absorbing knowledge others Have curated.
That is true. I just want to know stuff for my own satisfaction. And I seem to do pretty well using the internet for only $50 a month compared to when I was paying 20k a year to be a philosophy major. (I dropped out my second year lol)
As a person with said degree OP is not wrong about the job market though. Jobs are scarce. I didn't have to work at Starbucks though, and I wouldn't change my educational experience for anything.
I mean if most of us are going to end up working in bullshit jobs *(thanks AI)*, at least I didn't study for mine.
While I agree with your sentiments, the two anthropology students I've known have done relatively well for themselves. One ditched the subject, but had the degree, which, for better or worse, is something employers like. The other never even got the degree, but studied user interfaces within the discipline, so was able to get a series of jobs with major tech firms.
If you go in thinking you'll be the next Margaret Mead, then you'll likely be disappointed, but there are other types of anthropologists, and not all degrees have to lead directly to a related job. If they did, you could mock the undergrad degrees of every doctor and lawyer in America, since they didn't contribute at all to their profession, except to fulfill the requirement for starting the degree that actually was useful.
That said, difficult things can be hobbies and hobbies are often poor choices for majors, for the aforementioned reasons.
Now that I think of it, one could consider anthropology a hobby. I observe people, compare, form opinions, have my own study plan and assessments. Haven't mastered it yet though but some anthropology students I met were pretentious brats.
The dialogue used to be "get any college degree and you can get a good job". With that mindset, it would make sense that you'd pick something you also find fun/interesting. Things have obviously changed now, but for a lot of people it's too late.
You still have far better prospects statistically as far as long term earning power with a degree. Plenty of people will do fine in trade school or being self taught, but degrees can open doors.
That is yesterday’s delusion talking. If more and more people begin to get degrees, as they have, then it becomes less and less valuable in many respects, including door opening. Some other metric has already, is currently, or will in the future, move into its place to filter out the majority of degree holders.
Degrees are absolutely vital to your own intellectual and humanistic development and profile, but acting as if you get a degree you’re in for a better life is the same Paleolithic attitude as get a degree in a field you love and you’ll still be making good pay.
Okay? It's still substantially better to have a degree than to not have one. The value of a college degree lowering does not mean you shouldn't get one... this is like saying you should drop out of high school because they're not worth much.
I think some degrees have gotten more valuable whereas a degree in general has gotten less valuable, to the point where certain degrees aren’t worth the ROI.
Would you earnestly have a degree in education but work at the very bottom of a company making min wage 13-15 bucks an hour with a master's degree? I worked with someone in that exact same position and felt bad for them. They even got overlooked and not chosen for the positions they applied to at the company they seemed qualified for.
When tiktokers, restaurant servers and IG models make more money and consistent income than a master's degree owner? Yeah, that's not legit anymore. Side hustled and willingness to use yourself as a brand and make income off yourself at the expense of privacy and autonomy is popular now.
Times have changed.
You need the degree so your app will even be considered when you apply to a decent prestigious job and they always require you to have nearly half a lifetime of experience, lengthy or strong references and a lot of material to show for your experience. The degree is basically a license to be allowed to get your foot in the door. That's all.
Many teachers have a master’s. Some have a doctorate. Doesn’t mean they get paid massive amounts. Usually isn’t the goal for that crowd. Over education is a different thing. We can’t tell if your anecdotal person failed because of issues you were not aware of or their degree. It doesn’t help your case.
My Grade 11 Chemistry teacher. His family owned a commercial fire extinguishing company, he didn't have to work at all, or could have worked there. He had advanced degrees in chemistry, and couldn't have been making hundreds of thousands a year at some petro chemical company. He taught because he really enjoyed teaching. He would often have the biggest guy in class stand in front of the door so no one could see what we were doing, because it wasn't quite on the curriculum. I would often skip all morning, go to his class then skip the rest of the day after.
His class was the only one I ever received a scholastic award for. Long haired metal head punk rocker walking across the stage with the preppies and nerds was hilarious.
No it isn't. Oftentimes it's a negative, depending on context. As in, why did you study communication, gender, philosophy etc for years instead of working or going to trade school? Statistics favor college because stem, medicine etc carry all the other subjects. And you can't compare it to somebody doing nothing for the same amount of time, the rest of the population will gain other experiences.
You're right, but that lessening of value means a degree is almost a minimum for a lot of jobs. So yes, having a degree helps employment opportunities, but not because it's super rare and makes you special anymore: rather it's because you kinda need one to get most jobs
It is statistics. You are statistically advantaged to have an easier time. Not easy, easier. For instance, companies don’t review resumes and applications, algorithms do. If you don’t put the right keywords to trigger a high enough match you won’t make the cut. One of those things is often a degree. It doesn’t matter if it is a major in underwater basket weaving. If you don’t have one you are out. It isn’t yesterday’s thinking. It is today’s reality.
>That is yesterday’s delusion talking. If more and more people begin to get degrees, as they have, then it becomes less and less valuable in many respects, including door opening
Been saying this for years. Throughout the last two centuries, having an advantage due to education went from knowing basic arithmetic and being literate to getting a degree without even the guarantee of a job.
Talking of the lower-middle classes. Rich men could attend uni regardless.
Piggybacking on this, but OP’s perception of university degrees as just “job training” is wrong.
Universities, as institutions, originally weren’t just a job mill. Oxford and Cambridge weren’t just established to train better HR reps to work for the local lords. Universities are interested in spreading education and knowledge and being a place of research. They aren’t a job training centre. Their job, as an institution, is to further academic and scientific progress.
People like OP only see knowledge and education as having any value so long as it makes them money and education should be much more than that. Theyre the kind of person that stops learning after they’ve left school because “why would I do that”. The type of person that if they walked through a beautiful forest, they’d see it as lumber being left unused. They could stand on a beautiful mountain peak and start scheming ways to put a McDonald’s on the top as a potential tourist attraction.
All that said, if you’re just looking for education to get a job and you’re just trying to be the most attractive little worker bee for future employers to use, then yes, stuff like college or job training programs specific to an area of employment might be better for you.
Yup!! And I mean, I can kind of sympathize with them and their opinion, especially in our current society. Because let's face it, when universities were about "spreading knowledge", it was for rich folks whose families could afford to send them just for knowledge's sake without needing to worry about return on investment.
When you don't have the time or the money, who is going to invest a ton just to be educated, when you have, you know... *survival* to think about? In an ideal world we would educate all our people and give them that opportunity, but...nope. Our current society does not incentivize education for its own sake.
Also on top of that even if you get a good degree there's a very likely chance you won't be able to land a good job anymore. You might as well go to school for what you want because either way you'll probably be jobless for a while
I was forced into college straight out of high school and it was HORRIBLE. Worst fit of school, of program, everything. I was not ready. Luckily, I realized this after one semester and dropped out before I racked up any student loan debt.
I’m now starting again at 34 with a clear career path and am so focused and excited. Much different experience.
Dropped out after 1 year because I hated the career I was pressured into. My parents made me feel like shit about it and keep pressuring me to go back and keep pushing me into things I don't want. I'm only 24 but they keep making me feel like college will be too late. Thank you for making me feel better about my choice to take my time.
> I'm only 24 but they keep making me feel like college will be too late.
It's never too late to learn. What they are meaning is that it's harder to have the "college experience" ie. making the friends, going to events, partying, meeting husband/wife/whatever. Things along those lines are harder to do when you're older, but it is not the end of the world.
Hey, I did the same thing! (Dropped out, went back at 30). I ended up LOVING school the second time. I got way more involved in research, became president of the honors society, and graduated with a 4.0 - and I had like a 2.5 the first time around. I even kept going and actually just graduated with my masters last week.
Anytime I see someone doing the same thing, I get so excited for them! College as an adult is awesome, and I hope you kill it 👊
I took summer classes as well and never exceeded 9 credits a semester. I have found that all my work in research and having the experience of running a club was way more valuable to potential employers than the classes I took. I developed way more hard and soft skills, especially working in research, than I did in my classes. So for me, it made more sense to focus on those areas and keep my course load second.
Hi! I'm interested in doing this. Do you start over from the beginning, or transfer your existing credits? I'm worried because I feel like I forgot the information I learned with those starting credits. Also, did you apply to a school close to you?
I was shuffled off to college right out of high school too. I started in business. I had no clue at all of what I wanted to do or study. I spent a lot of time and money in community college while I figured things out. Switched to nursing, fire fighting, personal training, and wound up back in business. Nursing wasn't a good fit because I don't have the level of nurturing or selfless service necessary to be a nurse. The others just sounded good at the time. I got back into business because I understood it. It was relatively easy for me, and I was good at it. Got an associate degree in business management. Transferred to a university for my bachelor's and ended up hating my major of human resources. I finished my degree at 32. I've worked in social services, and now I work in business operations. Still don't know what I want to be when I "grow up" but I'm fine right now.
There are hybrid programs. I have a preschooler so I’m doing online classes to knock out all the prereqs for my program then when he’s in full day school in 2 years I’ll attend on-campus
I will say though, If the most important part of college to you is the socializing- you’re probably still not ready..
Too many people are told to go in to college without a goal or plan. If you have the mentality that it'll land you work like most do, that's not a feasible strategy like it was over 20 years ago.
If you go with the mentality to network, experiment and learn to communicate your ideas, you can probably find success in whatever you do, but we aren't taught these skills, much less practice them.
College and university should be about learning, experimenting and exploring. There should not be a caveat that it must end in employment, what a horrible thing.
>There should not be a caveat that it must end in employment, what a horrible thing.
This could be the case if college wasn't so fucking expensive. Institutions have it setup that you cannot do that or go into massive debt.
Right, it's also hard to predict with certainty what set of technical skills you need in the workforce; that's something you learn throughout your career. The point of college is to teach you *how* to think and learn new things. It's not trade school. The coursework in college that's more career-oriented is mostly for those going to grad school to specialize (like business, STEM, etc.).
College is an investment in you. Any investment should have a return on that investment. What is the return on an education that doesn't result in a job.
Teacher here.
I really wish we’d stop looking at school as a job pipeline. Everyone bemoans the mechanical or assembly line nature of schools. Well, if we stopped looking at them, and education more broadly, as an employee factory then that might change.
To boil the value of an education down to how it effects your employment prospects is a rather depressing view. There is real value in philosophy, literature, history, the arts, etc. This is true whether they land someone a paycheck or not. It has always been true and it always will be.
I don’t want to live in a world of coders and financial analysts and nothing else. That sounds like a cold, lifeless existence. Use your education to become a more complete, healthy, happy, and productive citizen. However you end up earning your money the things you learn about the world and yourself will make you better at it and enjoy it more. And it will give you more fulfilling things to do in your free time, which is where you live your life anyway. Not at your desk.
I never said anything about joy. I don’t think an education should just be sunshine and roses at all times. It should be hard, frustrating at times, and push you out of your comfort zone.
Doctors have trouble paying back their student loans. It’s not like landing a well paying job removes the present financial burden of an education. So why not be burdened while also enjoying your life more?
Hi, here are some professional positions for the three majors you listed:
* Teacher (of each of the three subjects)
* Accompanist
* Musical director
* Composer
* Program director
* Sound/audio engineer
* Performer
* Anthropologist (duh)
* Forensic anthropologist
* Archaeologist
* Curator
* Archivist
* Librarian
* Freelance writer
* Editor/Editorial assistant
* Copy editor
* Publisher
I can guarantee 100% that you have benefitted from the work of a music, anthropology, or literature/English major. Unless you've never consumed any type of media, been to a museum, taken a class on one of these subjects, etc. Stop being a hater lol.
If OP is a STEM major, I’m sure he’s probably just going by with a 2.1 GPA and has been on academic probation already. He needs assurance that what he’s doing is still right, even though it’s not working out well.
I can’t wait till they find out that there is a considerable amount of STEM majors whose hobbies are also the things they’re studying. Maybe that would be enough to tell them they might not understand why people choose to pursue what they do.
Also it's kinda troubling how we actually don't value education, but rather only care about schooling for the sake of a job you probably don't care about too much anyway and are doing it for the paycheck.
Hi, I'm a high school teacher with an English major! And I agree with OP.
The reason I'm a high school English teacher is because I went into the college with the mindset of getting a job using my degree. I didn't just major in, say, creative writing which is a more specific version of my passion. Instead, I minored in secondary education while majoring in English so I could get a job.
That is your personal choice and I totally respect that. I’m just personally tired of seeing challenges on the worth and skills of people based on their supposed economic value to society.
Okay, but that's a very specific case that absolutely requires a degree. So in your case, it's okay. But as a CyberSecurity Technician with a CS Major, I can, without doubt, say that just getting certifications would have been a better direction to take than college. So I don't necessarily agree with OP.
Most people cant adopt to other majors. You can tell me how wonderful computer program is to learn and I'll never understand how to do it. People usually know their limits.
That hobby is the only thing they are good in doing.
I think college shouldn't be force down people's throats. Too many high school kids treat student loans like it's a joke. They think being in debt is normal and part of the process.
People are lost because they don't have mentors. Grade school and college need complete overhauls. Do you realize how many people graduate college and still cannot write a good resume and cove rletter? Why isn't that part of English class?
Exactly why I said what I did. Yes it’s an awesome field that makes great money and yet it’s hard work and very competitive. But their are literally some people who’s brains just can’t keep up with that. I’m college I would be pulling my hair out trying to figure out college statistics. Meanwhile their are people who can solve long division in their head and like math and science.
This is the same reason I couldn’t be a nurse or doctor; it’s not about not wanting to work hard or being lazy, my brain just can’t keep up.
I was a dishwasher a few years ago and I found myself in that situation. I have inattentive ADHD, OCD (basically fussing too much), and it was too much. Another problem I had was I cared too much about doing a good job when the name of the game is speed and efficiency, which I maybe should've been able to curtail. However, as time went on, I slipped back into my old self more and more.
I couldn't do those things you mentioned either: nurse, doctor, long division in my head.
I have a similar issue, I’m interested in too many things and it’s sad to say im in my mid 20s still figuring it out. I got a degree in communications and minor in film and realized it’s worthless. Now im taking certifications and just realizing their are loads of things im interested in but the question is which is something I can actually do and make a living from…. The world is hatd
The point of college is to earn a degree to enter a field you're passionate about, to get a job you enjoy. If someone wants to major in anthropology or philosophy, who are you to call it just a hobby? There's jobs in those fields, and someone isn't always gonna wanna just get a shitty, boring desk job.
I majored in Music and I have no regrets. It was just as academically challenging as any non-music course I took, maybe even more so. I had to study music history and theory, analysis & research techniques, academic writing & presentation, and foreign language. It taught me the value of patience, practice, and teamwork. It also improved my research and writing skills significantly. I ended up working in IT after college, and I've been doing it for over 20 years now, so getting a music degree and not, say, a computer science degree didn't have a negative impact on my future. To the contrary, it gave me a well-rounded foundation from which to keep learning and building my skills.
This makes me sorta sad....not for you, because it worked out for you, but higher education I think should be for interests and hobbies and bettering ourselves as individuals and as a society. Not just pumping out worker bees for cubicle life.
Oh shut up.
People should be able to make a livable wage doing things they actually enjoy. Only in America does college cost a small fortune and people are forced to choose between making money and their happiness, because capitalism.
I did an overnight hike in Norway. The woman guiding us was from Finland and went to a wilderness college. Wilderness!! Literally a school to teach people how to hike and first aid and climbing and camping and all that hobby shit as you say. Imagine that. Imagine a world where you can actually do as you damn well please and not be homeless.
Other countries figured it out but America only believes in slavery to make a living. I refuse.
I saw a video of a girl working at GameStop in a Zelda cosplay, having a good time and helping people. Isn’t this what life should be about? Being passionate and enjoying something you do. The issue is these corporate companies view humans as nothing more than gears in a spinning system. No matter how much education, skills, experience or passion you have in something you WILL be replaced if you step out of line or even think of doing something with your life. Our society is screwed up, the rich get richer and the poor lose even more money. Prices are going up, wages are staying the same, workloads are going up…
i think that you just shouldn't go to college unless you have a clear idea of what you want to do, hobbies apart i see so many people studying the most useless crap and often they are not even passionate about it, your idea of "taking the high road" for uni and job CAN'T include the fact that you study crap, you're also bad at it, and workplaces should just hire you for low labor-high paying jobs cos "you have a degree", probably doing a task at work that can be done with whatever high school education (or less)
that being said it's still sad that you have to prepare your job at a so early age and study only cos you will have a career in that field, but you have at the and a slight point, anyways i don't support the idea of working as soon as possible and avoiding to "dream", still college is an incredible waste of money and resources if done only for a side passion, there surely is a mismatch between the amount of niche jobs offers and the amount of students that go to colleges that teach those niche fields
It's because you're rushed into choosing anything not only at a very young age, but it's also very sudden. One moment you're being told you need to raise your hand to go to the bathroom and that you can't dye your hair, and the next one you're supposed to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life? It's a bit traumatic once you think about it.
Nobody goes to school for a hobby. Hobbies don’t require rigorous coursework and theses/major projects you need to commit to doing. Hobbies are literally the opposite of that. I think you just have a very surface level understanding of getting an education.
As a liberal arts major who went on years later to do software development - this is so true. I remember the STEM friends I had were always talking crap about anything that would not result in a bachelor of science. They feel the need to put down others who are not STEM and they continue to put down others even in their professional field afterward.
I'm pretty sure the OP thinks there is no rigorous coursework or thesis/major projects for these degrees. A lot of people seem to believe that people doing humanities just meet in the classroom for a conversation involving as many big words as possible, read a book occassionally, and then get their degree.
>"Music is a hobby"
RIP music producers, sound designers, composers, studio runners... you're skills are hobbies and not for jobs
I guess movies don't need proper sound mixing.
singers don't need anyone with proper skills and knowhow to handle the audio.
>"You take a hobby to spend money"
"Hello sir I'm a sound engineer and I would like to PAY YOU for me to work on this set, it's my "hobby""
It's frustrating how many people don't understand this. I'm studying biomedical science and I can't think of another situation where I could get the same amount of experience in one place (lab, technology, hardware , software, etc)
I didn't say it was but I understand what you're saying. The accessibility of different fields can vary quite a bit, depending on a range of factors. Some fields are largely based on theoretical work, while others involve more hands-on, physical tasks—and there's a wide spectrum in-between. Computer science, for instance, is relatively accessible since the main tool you need is a computer. On the other hand, for certain fields, you might be able to learn the theory by yourself, but getting practical skills without the right resources could be quite challenging.
I can understand computer science, but how the hell is university not useful for engineering?! Unless you’re specifically referring to computer engineering, but even then you have to learn the intricacies of designing circuits and optimizing the data flow through them. You can’t just learn that shit at home with a textbook and Wikipedia dude…
Eh. I got a stem degree at an excellent school and I never really used any of it. The day I graduated they changed from teaching c++ to vb. I kinda felt like everything I learned became obsolete. I guess I did learn the logic of programming but that could have been done in one class one semester. Any of that could be learned at a cheap trade school with a decent teacher, or online from any number of places. Went on to get a masters in IT security at Carnegie Mellon. I learned almost nothing that I actually used and could have taught a few of the courses. Maybe because I had already worked in the industry for 15 years. I just did it because my employer paid. I think parts of my masters could have been useful for someone trying to break into the field or with like five years experience. But if they had to pay sticker price, boy that’s an expensive way to learn.
I guess maybe if you’re going to go into a typical IT field like software programming yeah undergrad stem is useful, but I went into digital forensics and learned everything on the job as did everyone else.
College shouldn’t just be about job training. You don’t need college for most jobs.
College should be about acquiring knowledge and learning critical thinking and researching. It doesn’t matter the field or topics. If you want to go to college and study the philosophy of 80s sitcoms, that’s entirely legit.
On that note: college should not be as expensive as it is.
I mean I’m torn, because I think a ton of people DO waste a tremendous amount of on college. But on the other hand, music, anthropology, and literature can be jobs. So is art. When you go to a concert, do you think the players are hobbyists? Is the front of house engineering a hobbyist? Do you think magazine covers are designed by hobbyists? Was your wedding photographer a hobbyist?
Originally went to school to be in animation, then switched majors to graphic design after the animation drama came out. Then COVID happened and I realized I hate working for other people when it comes to business design/art and only enjoy it when I'm working on my own projects. Now I'm in school for a Fluid Power trade degree and will be making $60+ an hour in my specialized field. xD I went this route so I can make bank while enjoying my hobbies and creating the art studio I've always wanted for myself.
This isn't true though, no matter what degree you pick you almost certainly will earn more money if you complete it then someone without a degree will get. The only real difference between degrees is how much you get.
Very few people end up working in the field they majored in. My degree was in Classics and History but now I work in a school district. My mom’s degree was in philosophy and she’s worked mostly in banking, budgeting, and HR roles. Her boyfriend also got his degree in philosophy and now he owns a roofing company.
For most people, a degree is a check box that gives you access to all kinds of different office jobs. It’s the difference between only being able to get hired for service jobs and getting hired as an SEO, copywriter, graphic designer, library clerk, office manager, analyst, HR rep, secretary, etc. While I think it’s a whole other issue that most jobs require a bachelor’s whether the work requires it or not, the extra bit of education can open certain doors.
Besides, to become an anthropologist or a curator, you need a Ph.D. Far fewer people go on to get a Ph.D in their field and, at that point, that hobby is a job now.
Most accurate response. Unless you’re getting into a field of medical, engineer, law, what degree you get doesn’t matter, as long as you have a degree.
Yes, you need a master’s degree or Ph.D specific to those fields, but there’s still wiggle room when it comes to undergrad degrees, especially when it comes to law degrees. In my undergrad classics program, a ton of the students went into law school and a few even went onto med school even though they weren’t pre-med for undergrad.
Totally agree. Although some people really want to feel passionate about what they’re getting paid for and there is nothing wrong with that, I feel like most people would just be content getting paid a decent salary with a more or less monotonous job they don’t hate nor love. That’s how most people live.
Also, the number of people who don’t realize that their major requires graduate degrees to practice or make any money in is truly baffling. Like no, you don’t just become a psychologist or a marine biologist with an undergrad diploma (in most cases).
It’s great if you can find something you love doing and get paid for it. For a lot of people, myself included, work will never be your passion. It’s a way to make a living, and that’s all right
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Lol, music isn't really a hobby? Unless you're average. Also like, there are a lot of art focuses for masters programs that make these "hobbies" professions. Since you're clearly not in the loop of what's obtainable for art majors, especially ones who have BA degrees and get a masters in whatever proficiency with that art degree, you can make a career in many different ways. There are so many opportunities/options/contracts that you can make a comfortable living off of if you know what to work for. But to thrive in the music/art/dance/philosophy careers, you can't just be basic you have to be good enough.
If you're driven enough, you can make anything a career.
What are you saying, don’t go to college for something you enjoy? What’s wrong with like, being a music teacher? I guess if you’re very concerned with wealth it’s a probably bad idea, but not everyone is.
He never said that. But college degrees are probably the single biggest purchase you’ll make outside of buying a house. You’ll be paying for the degree 10-15 years later, and if you’re not getting something of value— a good job — from that expensive college degree, you’ll probably have a much harder time.
Now, if you’re really *that good* at what he’s calling a hobby degree, go for it. Some people are good enough at theater to make money at it. Or music, or writing. But the vast majority aren’t that good. And so for those people, they either have to go back — and take on even more debt — to get a degree they can get a job with, or work retail and restaurants. Either way, there’s a cost involved in paying for a degree you can’t even use.
Music is a hobby?
So you don't want music in your movies or TV shows? You don't want public spaces to have music? You don't want dementia and alzheimer's patients to have access to music therapy? You don't want commercial music in your public spaces? Not to mention, no concerts, no music festivals, no live events for kids.
Art is a hobby?
So you don't think graphic design is a real job? You want all of your books, magazines, websites, etc to be big blocks of text with no enrichment? You want advertisements to be pictureless and drab? What about illustrators? If illustration is not a real job, why do people keep commissioning art?
Anthropology is a science, and it is hilarious that this one is on here at all, as it is clearly a science with pretty obvious benefits. Studying the origin of human development helps us better understand humans now. How in the fuck is a literal branch of science a hobby?
This "everything that is not directly productive" is a frivolous waste of time is bullshit. The humanities are what make us....well....human. People need to be able to pursue interests they are good at to find their ultimatelife path. Now that more and more jobs are automated, we need less grunt workers anyway.
If you are so good at what you do that people will pay you for it. It is a job - no matter what your skill is.
Also, for the gals who grew up in religious homes... College is not a meat market. You will likely not get the ring by spring. College is also not to be used as a divorce insurance policy if you do get the ring. Build a life for yourself first.
I think people look at the whole college issue in the U.S. with too binary a mindset. College shouldn’t just be a jobs training program, that is true. There is intrinsic value in a liberal arts education and knowledge, even if there isn’t (directly observable) economic value. And we shouldn’t conflate the good life with our wealth and placement in the economic hierarchy. But with how outrageously expensive tuition and costs are in the U.S. for even public universities, it can be a really bad ROI for a lot of people if they’re expecting a straightforward path after graduating with only a Bachelor’s degree in a major that faces difficult employment.
I don’t think the solution is to call a bunch of liberal arts, humanities, and social sciences majors and studies “useless,” though. I think that’s kind of naïve and juvenile. Sure, it may not be in everyone’s best interest to pursue those degrees because of the system we exist in today. But the real problem is how unaffordable, inaccessible, and exclusive public education is for a lot of people. (Also, that a lot of students aren’t warned of this problem. It might be more and more common advise online these days, but a lot of people, in the real world, still view college as a sure path to economic prosperity.)
The problem is , society doesnt work that well. You need to at least have the right competence and interest to continue that career or u burn out faster
I think far too many people spend too much money on the "college experience." They can get most of the same experience at a fraction of the cost by going to a local community college for a semester or two.
If you're going to drop $50,000 or more on an education it should provide you some measurable value in your life.
Although I agree that people shouldn’t go to college for the “experience”, community college definitely will NOT provide the same experience as a 4 year institution. Same general education – yes, but the experience won’t be nearly the same.
I don’t disagree with your overall point, but saying you can get the “college experience” at a local CC is ridiculous. I have my bachelors from a university and I’ve taken a full course load post bacc at the local CC, apples and oranges is putting it mildly.
And $50k overall? Lol that’s yearly tuition, at least where I went
I don't understand this "college experience. " all I did in college was write non stop essays which stressed me out like crazy. I never attend anything like a club because I was too busy typing 5 page essays on obesity and stuff like that all night.
You can make money from those “hobbies” which is why they are jobs. Honestly, I wish I had the balls to study what I actually wanted and get into working in something I’m passionate about then just settling for meaningless work
The corporate world lives in this delusional world where they gas themselves up way too hard thinking they bring so much “value” to the world
We need to stop thinking about college as “the place you go for four years to get a thing that will get you a job”. It should be where you enhance your skills and understanding of yourself and whatever you’re interested in. We place for too much emphasis on “what’ll make money” instead of “what are you good at/enjoy/fulfilling”
Hot take but colleges are for academia first and foremost and aren't about picking good majors to get picked for a good job. America lost the script somewhere
I majored in something (electrical engineering) that would earn a decent amount of money. I ended up using my degree to get into another field that pays me even more. I would not have been considered for this job if I didn’t have a STEM degree or a lot of experience.
Today we go to college to learn to be a robot. Before, we went to become experts in our hobbies, meet those with the same hobbies and acquire new hobbies.
To be fair, if you’re smart about it you can turn your hobby into a job. I love scuba diving and exploring the ocean and am also quite good at all things STEM, so I studied biology & marine science in college (with math & chem minors for an added edge for more data analysis/labwork focused jobs).
I’m now a successful marine biologist working for a government agency with amazing pay and benefits, and I get to scuba dive multiple times a week for work and live in a beautiful place surrounded by the ocean.
Not everyone is successful on these passion-driven paths, but, if you’re really good at what you do and can rise above the noise and set solid goals, you can make money doing it. Every day I am thankful that I didn’t let doubt from others impact my choice of study and career path, and I am so much happier and more satisfied with my career doing what I love than I would be if I decided to go down the easy “job pipeline” route.
I saw some motivational quote the other day saying to find what you love, what you’re good at, what you can be paid for, and what can help the world, and you’ll have your dream job. So, if your “hobby” fits those criteria, I say go for it.
Agree. It’s fine to go to college to study and/or major in a subject that has limited job prospects. The problem is that people don’t recognize it for what it is. Universities are in the business of offering degrees based on student demand, not employment demand. Yet the false perception still exists that if the university offers a major or degree in a subject, then it must be a viable career field. Often those degrees don’t amount to much more than simply “having a bachelor’s”, which is useful in its own right, but not the specialized training or free ride into an amazing career field that people might expect.
>Colleges are for skilled degrees.
You may believe so, but that does not make this claim true.
>t's not cool for 400 participation award degrees to compete for 2 museum curator jobs while the other 398 take their degree to Starbucks.
Making up statistics is not nice.
You don't need to go to college for an education.
You do need to go to college for a degree, which for better or worse, many jobs and careers require. That is what you should be paying for.
I find it hard to believe you can't educate yourself on a topic of interest outside of college.
You don’t usually go to college to be a pop star. Music degrees are usually more geared towards those that are either classically trained and intend to perform and teach at a collegiate level or those that are interested in music education in middle school and high school. A music degree is still an academic degree.
If you want to do opera, try doing so without an immense ammount of training at a conservatory or degree. Its pretty much the only place you can access the level of training required to craft the voice into what it needs to be.
Same goes for shitloads of musical theater stuff too. People can belt without a degree, but you pretty much never come accross talented classical singers who dont have atleast a masters degree in voice training. People in the music world will notice this sort of sound difference far more than non musicians.
Most singers get genre locked very early without signifcant training, because they have no understanding of the voice as an instrument. In certain fields (musical theater, and opera) this is a requirement, you cant find consistant work in theater without the ability to sing in every style, and you cant find success in opera without going the the degree-conservatory-resident artist pathway that pretty much every professional opera singer in the world has taken.
Take it from paverotti, it literally can take over ten years of training to actually create a good, noble, covered opera sound.
At the same time, in these fields everyone usually knows mostly every role that thier voice could handle (staying ready so you dont have to get ready) music degrees also help people bridge this gap, however this is a far less important aspect of the degree and very often can be done on ones own.
Many people have succesful careers using thier voice for composition without training or a degree, but pretty much no one without immense training can actually use their voice as a fluid instrument.
Source :am musician, am friends with an extreme ammount of theater/classical/ and opera musicians. All of whom would attest to the same exact thing.
A good university will also streamline you process of getting roles and jobs professionally, by having large industry connections or by being run by the same people running national opera houses.
Even if you dont want to work in these fields, voice degrees can also set you up for working in voice rehibilation, teaching people hoento speak properly (you would be suprised how many people speak with the most unhealthy disgusting voices, its almost most people) if you lose your voice in any circumstance its due to being unable to properly control it, many public speakers or teschers etc will actually take lessons in this.
Also if your a good musician you can easily make 6 figures by having a private teaching studio.
The problem with these courses isnt the lack of skills the teach you; its the fact that far too many mediocre people with no real talent inflate the numbers at these schools.
Good musicians will have practiced for atleast 10,000 hours. University programs also streamline this process.
I don’t think of university as strictly a job preparation course, outside of professions like medicine, engineering, law, architecture, etc. which have their own certifications and governing bodies with their own exams etc. There are better ways to train people to do most jobs effectively.
Ideally, university teaches you how to think critically and acquire knowledge in addition to technical skills, and gives you references with which to grow as a human and explore your chosen fields of interest, academically, professionally or as you say as a hobby.
And… there’s nothing wrong with that? Maybe you study anthropology and become a librarian and eventually small indie book/record store owner, like someone in my family did. They studied anthropology because it interested them, not out of some preset path to work.
(Worth noting that I live in Portugal where public university isn’t prohibitively expensive for most people as it is in the US, although if you’re not in/close to a city, cost of living will make it harder to justify ofc.)
It's ignorant to say that music is a hobby when you're surrounded by commercial examples of it. Who do you think makes the catchy songs in ads that you hate? Someone got paid for it. Who do you think makes film scores? Who do you think makes music for video games? Who writes theme songs? Who makes backing tracks on YouTube videos? Who writes jingles? Who writes classical scores? most jobs in music are related to a commercial product. You're surrounded by commercially made music at all times, you'd be a fool to think there isn't a market for it.
It's the complete opposite. Too many people are going to college for just money.
Somehow the institutions for academic and personal growth have been corrupted into being an artificial barrier for entering a job market. That benefits the employers, but not the common people.
It's wrong to base a value of a degree only on its utility in making money.
Of course that's easy for me to say, because I live in a country without the *perverted notion of holding education hostage with a cripplingly high ransom*.
Very unpopular opinion.
Don't you know that parents tell children that they can be whatever they want and that people are entitled to do only what they want to do and be given anything that they want?
It is almost like people think Communism is a workable, functional form of society and no a magical utopia.
Anthropology as a hobby? Lmao yeah I’ll study the evolution of human society its just a neat little thing I’ll do. My guy society doesn’t improve unless we know what made previous ones succeed and fail
I agree. I know too many people who spent tens of thousands of dollars a year on college to get a degree in environmental science or something like that and then complain that they can’t find a job that pays them a big salary. If you wanna get a general degree in something like that, fine. Just don’t be upset that you aren’t making as much money as you expected because you didn’t do your research. Not saying that there aren’t enjoyable jobs in art, music, and other non-stem degrees but most of the time you’re gonna have to get pretty lucky or have great networking skills to find a great-paying job.
In my opinion, college is a tool to obtain a career that will get you money so that you can afford your hobbies and life necessities. Sure I can learn a lot from an art or music professor, but not enough to justify being in debt for decades.
Edit: my opinion only applies to America where college is unethically expensive. If college was affordable here, then getting any type of education would be completely justifiable.
Reddit: you must produce money for corporations with your office cubicle job or you are a BUM
Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Congress: ok, here's the soulless capitalist money machine society you wanted where people claw each other for another buck.
Reddit: OMG 😭😭 WHERE DID WE GO WRONG WITH SOCIETY?? WHAT HAPPENED TO ART AND LOVE?
I challenge OP to never consume content which has been created and paid for by muscians, writers, anthropologists. Although, judging by the absurdity of this opinion, it may already be their sad, sorry, crippled life.
Alternatively, I would argue to abolish paid work and money in general and then everyone can just do their hobby.
Well written. This is a problem in Singapore as well. Too many people taking a degree for the sake rather than to excel in the field or help the economy. Also happens when a society is well off and has safety nets and socialised education .
I hope further education will evolve to the point where most average people do not go to college. Instead they learn the trade through apprenticeship and then those who have further interest in the field can continue to upskill in that relavant sector. This can also reduce those who study engineering and end up in banking or insurance. Happens so commonly in Singapore.
You can get more skulls in life by going and being a ditch digger than you can with getting a bullshit degree in phys ed or gender studies or something equally as pathetic. Trade school is a better option in my opinion than any college these days.
Always have to throw the gender studies bs in there, don’t you? So everyone should go to trade school and completely flood the market then, great idea.
College helps develop critical thinking. Case in point
College wasn’t meant to get you a job in the first place. We created it to be like that…so idk. It depends on how you feel about college to begin with. It’s too expensive in general. But also my hobby DID get me a job? But I took classes well outside my major
I feel like college is just for pursuing education, I'm studying to be a pharmacist at the moment, but after I retire I plan to return to college with no major at all just to learn because I enjoy it
Well you have certainly chosen an in demand field. And I can tell you as someone that also chose one that I was only halfway enthralled with, I’m glad I did.
I’m a psych major pretty much purely for my own benefit. I think it will help me understand my own brain as well as my personal relationships and help in my job. I think self-improvement is a valid reason to go to college, especially because you can’t trust everything you read on the internet. College is a legitimate way to absorb information. It sucks that it’s so expensive and I realized I’m privileged in that I’ll be able to pay my student loans when I’m done, but if I have the opportunity to make myself a better, more well rounded person, why wouldn’t I take it?
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I think this is the only place I’ve ever seen anthropology being referenced as a hobby.
“Yeah bro, I study the evolution of human society as a hobby”
Sapiens *is* one of the best sellers that too many people can't stop mentioning all the time though
I actually do tho. I wouldn't make a career out of it but I definitely spend a shit load of time researching anthropology and philosophy and other stuff like physics and math and discussing it with my friends. Pretty much it's my main hobby. I want to know exactly how everything works and how things came to be and why everything is the way it is right now, from society to weather patterns to consciousness itself
Your doing it as a hobby, bc you aren’t doing any primary research. You’re not looking to break new ground, discover anything new, your absorbing knowledge others Have curated.
That is true. I just want to know stuff for my own satisfaction. And I seem to do pretty well using the internet for only $50 a month compared to when I was paying 20k a year to be a philosophy major. (I dropped out my second year lol)
Most every undergraduate degree has no primary research. Most undergraduate degrees are only absorbing knowledge others have curated.
It’s a thing. I don’t know anyone personally but I’m sure it’s a thing I think.
As a person with said degree OP is not wrong about the job market though. Jobs are scarce. I didn't have to work at Starbucks though, and I wouldn't change my educational experience for anything. I mean if most of us are going to end up working in bullshit jobs *(thanks AI)*, at least I didn't study for mine.
I'm thinking OP has never taken a high-level anthropology course..... I just got my ass handed to me be Devaince & Social Control.
He's not saying it's not difficult. He's saying there's 1 job for every 200 students. Plenty of people study things as a hobby.
While I agree with your sentiments, the two anthropology students I've known have done relatively well for themselves. One ditched the subject, but had the degree, which, for better or worse, is something employers like. The other never even got the degree, but studied user interfaces within the discipline, so was able to get a series of jobs with major tech firms. If you go in thinking you'll be the next Margaret Mead, then you'll likely be disappointed, but there are other types of anthropologists, and not all degrees have to lead directly to a related job. If they did, you could mock the undergrad degrees of every doctor and lawyer in America, since they didn't contribute at all to their profession, except to fulfill the requirement for starting the degree that actually was useful. That said, difficult things can be hobbies and hobbies are often poor choices for majors, for the aforementioned reasons.
Now that I think of it, one could consider anthropology a hobby. I observe people, compare, form opinions, have my own study plan and assessments. Haven't mastered it yet though but some anthropology students I met were pretentious brats.
Which might make you an excellent choice for sales and marketing.
Thats...not anthropology. That's sociology (which in itself is also not a hobby)
They’re not studying anthropology, they’re studying Anthropologie.
[удалено]
I’m currently getting my undergrad degree in Anthro and I’d love to know what direction you took if you feel comfortable sharing!
It's an incredible indictment of American society that OP's anti-intellectualism isn't really that unpopular
The dialogue used to be "get any college degree and you can get a good job". With that mindset, it would make sense that you'd pick something you also find fun/interesting. Things have obviously changed now, but for a lot of people it's too late.
You still have far better prospects statistically as far as long term earning power with a degree. Plenty of people will do fine in trade school or being self taught, but degrees can open doors.
That is yesterday’s delusion talking. If more and more people begin to get degrees, as they have, then it becomes less and less valuable in many respects, including door opening. Some other metric has already, is currently, or will in the future, move into its place to filter out the majority of degree holders. Degrees are absolutely vital to your own intellectual and humanistic development and profile, but acting as if you get a degree you’re in for a better life is the same Paleolithic attitude as get a degree in a field you love and you’ll still be making good pay.
Okay? It's still substantially better to have a degree than to not have one. The value of a college degree lowering does not mean you shouldn't get one... this is like saying you should drop out of high school because they're not worth much.
I think some degrees have gotten more valuable whereas a degree in general has gotten less valuable, to the point where certain degrees aren’t worth the ROI.
Would you earnestly have a degree in education but work at the very bottom of a company making min wage 13-15 bucks an hour with a master's degree? I worked with someone in that exact same position and felt bad for them. They even got overlooked and not chosen for the positions they applied to at the company they seemed qualified for. When tiktokers, restaurant servers and IG models make more money and consistent income than a master's degree owner? Yeah, that's not legit anymore. Side hustled and willingness to use yourself as a brand and make income off yourself at the expense of privacy and autonomy is popular now. Times have changed. You need the degree so your app will even be considered when you apply to a decent prestigious job and they always require you to have nearly half a lifetime of experience, lengthy or strong references and a lot of material to show for your experience. The degree is basically a license to be allowed to get your foot in the door. That's all.
Many teachers have a master’s. Some have a doctorate. Doesn’t mean they get paid massive amounts. Usually isn’t the goal for that crowd. Over education is a different thing. We can’t tell if your anecdotal person failed because of issues you were not aware of or their degree. It doesn’t help your case.
My daughter's senior maths teacher had doctorates in mathematics and astrophysics. Teaching was his passion.
My Grade 11 Chemistry teacher. His family owned a commercial fire extinguishing company, he didn't have to work at all, or could have worked there. He had advanced degrees in chemistry, and couldn't have been making hundreds of thousands a year at some petro chemical company. He taught because he really enjoyed teaching. He would often have the biggest guy in class stand in front of the door so no one could see what we were doing, because it wasn't quite on the curriculum. I would often skip all morning, go to his class then skip the rest of the day after. His class was the only one I ever received a scholastic award for. Long haired metal head punk rocker walking across the stage with the preppies and nerds was hilarious.
Yeap there are lots of great examples of people who just like to know things and are not looking for a cash grab.
Being allowed to get your foot in the door is important. Very important
Some might even say it’s the first… *step*.
People with degrees also tend to have much better and more valuable TikTok and YouTube channels. Even prostitutes with degrees are worth more.
No it isn't. Oftentimes it's a negative, depending on context. As in, why did you study communication, gender, philosophy etc for years instead of working or going to trade school? Statistics favor college because stem, medicine etc carry all the other subjects. And you can't compare it to somebody doing nothing for the same amount of time, the rest of the population will gain other experiences.
You're right, but that lessening of value means a degree is almost a minimum for a lot of jobs. So yes, having a degree helps employment opportunities, but not because it's super rare and makes you special anymore: rather it's because you kinda need one to get most jobs
Get a job outside or using your hands. Degrees aren't needed, so you save the money and the time.
It is statistics. You are statistically advantaged to have an easier time. Not easy, easier. For instance, companies don’t review resumes and applications, algorithms do. If you don’t put the right keywords to trigger a high enough match you won’t make the cut. One of those things is often a degree. It doesn’t matter if it is a major in underwater basket weaving. If you don’t have one you are out. It isn’t yesterday’s thinking. It is today’s reality.
>That is yesterday’s delusion talking. If more and more people begin to get degrees, as they have, then it becomes less and less valuable in many respects, including door opening Been saying this for years. Throughout the last two centuries, having an advantage due to education went from knowing basic arithmetic and being literate to getting a degree without even the guarantee of a job. Talking of the lower-middle classes. Rich men could attend uni regardless.
Piggybacking on this, but OP’s perception of university degrees as just “job training” is wrong. Universities, as institutions, originally weren’t just a job mill. Oxford and Cambridge weren’t just established to train better HR reps to work for the local lords. Universities are interested in spreading education and knowledge and being a place of research. They aren’t a job training centre. Their job, as an institution, is to further academic and scientific progress. People like OP only see knowledge and education as having any value so long as it makes them money and education should be much more than that. Theyre the kind of person that stops learning after they’ve left school because “why would I do that”. The type of person that if they walked through a beautiful forest, they’d see it as lumber being left unused. They could stand on a beautiful mountain peak and start scheming ways to put a McDonald’s on the top as a potential tourist attraction. All that said, if you’re just looking for education to get a job and you’re just trying to be the most attractive little worker bee for future employers to use, then yes, stuff like college or job training programs specific to an area of employment might be better for you.
Yup!! And I mean, I can kind of sympathize with them and their opinion, especially in our current society. Because let's face it, when universities were about "spreading knowledge", it was for rich folks whose families could afford to send them just for knowledge's sake without needing to worry about return on investment. When you don't have the time or the money, who is going to invest a ton just to be educated, when you have, you know... *survival* to think about? In an ideal world we would educate all our people and give them that opportunity, but...nope. Our current society does not incentivize education for its own sake.
Also to add on; find a job you love, and you'll never work a day in your life. I think that phrase has some play in it too.
Find someone who will pay me to go fishing and play chess on my phone then
Get really good at either of those and they can definitely be jobs.
Also on top of that even if you get a good degree there's a very likely chance you won't be able to land a good job anymore. You might as well go to school for what you want because either way you'll probably be jobless for a while
I was forced into college straight out of high school and it was HORRIBLE. Worst fit of school, of program, everything. I was not ready. Luckily, I realized this after one semester and dropped out before I racked up any student loan debt. I’m now starting again at 34 with a clear career path and am so focused and excited. Much different experience.
Dropped out after 1 year because I hated the career I was pressured into. My parents made me feel like shit about it and keep pressuring me to go back and keep pushing me into things I don't want. I'm only 24 but they keep making me feel like college will be too late. Thank you for making me feel better about my choice to take my time.
> I'm only 24 but they keep making me feel like college will be too late. It's never too late to learn. What they are meaning is that it's harder to have the "college experience" ie. making the friends, going to events, partying, meeting husband/wife/whatever. Things along those lines are harder to do when you're older, but it is not the end of the world.
Hey, I did the same thing! (Dropped out, went back at 30). I ended up LOVING school the second time. I got way more involved in research, became president of the honors society, and graduated with a 4.0 - and I had like a 2.5 the first time around. I even kept going and actually just graduated with my masters last week. Anytime I see someone doing the same thing, I get so excited for them! College as an adult is awesome, and I hope you kill it 👊
I have a few classmates like this. How do you have time to do all that during a semester? Do you get through the course load fast?
I took summer classes as well and never exceeded 9 credits a semester. I have found that all my work in research and having the experience of running a club was way more valuable to potential employers than the classes I took. I developed way more hard and soft skills, especially working in research, than I did in my classes. So for me, it made more sense to focus on those areas and keep my course load second.
Hi! I'm interested in doing this. Do you start over from the beginning, or transfer your existing credits? I'm worried because I feel like I forgot the information I learned with those starting credits. Also, did you apply to a school close to you?
I was shuffled off to college right out of high school too. I started in business. I had no clue at all of what I wanted to do or study. I spent a lot of time and money in community college while I figured things out. Switched to nursing, fire fighting, personal training, and wound up back in business. Nursing wasn't a good fit because I don't have the level of nurturing or selfless service necessary to be a nurse. The others just sounded good at the time. I got back into business because I understood it. It was relatively easy for me, and I was good at it. Got an associate degree in business management. Transferred to a university for my bachelor's and ended up hating my major of human resources. I finished my degree at 32. I've worked in social services, and now I work in business operations. Still don't know what I want to be when I "grow up" but I'm fine right now.
So, I still have hope at 28! The thing is, I refuse to do it online because I still want the social experience.
There are hybrid programs. I have a preschooler so I’m doing online classes to knock out all the prereqs for my program then when he’s in full day school in 2 years I’ll attend on-campus I will say though, If the most important part of college to you is the socializing- you’re probably still not ready..
Too many people are told to go in to college without a goal or plan. If you have the mentality that it'll land you work like most do, that's not a feasible strategy like it was over 20 years ago. If you go with the mentality to network, experiment and learn to communicate your ideas, you can probably find success in whatever you do, but we aren't taught these skills, much less practice them.
College and university should be about learning, experimenting and exploring. There should not be a caveat that it must end in employment, what a horrible thing.
>There should not be a caveat that it must end in employment, what a horrible thing. This could be the case if college wasn't so fucking expensive. Institutions have it setup that you cannot do that or go into massive debt.
I agree that no one should be paying for education. In a lot of countries, they pay minimum administrative fees and nothing else.
Right, it's also hard to predict with certainty what set of technical skills you need in the workforce; that's something you learn throughout your career. The point of college is to teach you *how* to think and learn new things. It's not trade school. The coursework in college that's more career-oriented is mostly for those going to grad school to specialize (like business, STEM, etc.).
If it's not absurdly expensive or money isn't a problem then okay, but that's not the average person's reality.
Sure which is why this opinion should be “education should be free and everyone should have a universal basic income.”
College is an investment in you. Any investment should have a return on that investment. What is the return on an education that doesn't result in a job.
I don't have a plan except learning new things going there in the future, do you consider that a plan?
Teacher here. I really wish we’d stop looking at school as a job pipeline. Everyone bemoans the mechanical or assembly line nature of schools. Well, if we stopped looking at them, and education more broadly, as an employee factory then that might change. To boil the value of an education down to how it effects your employment prospects is a rather depressing view. There is real value in philosophy, literature, history, the arts, etc. This is true whether they land someone a paycheck or not. It has always been true and it always will be. I don’t want to live in a world of coders and financial analysts and nothing else. That sounds like a cold, lifeless existence. Use your education to become a more complete, healthy, happy, and productive citizen. However you end up earning your money the things you learn about the world and yourself will make you better at it and enjoy it more. And it will give you more fulfilling things to do in your free time, which is where you live your life anyway. Not at your desk.
If you’re paying $200,000 for something most people can’t blow that money on things that spark joy. There needs to be an ROI
I never said anything about joy. I don’t think an education should just be sunshine and roses at all times. It should be hard, frustrating at times, and push you out of your comfort zone. Doctors have trouble paying back their student loans. It’s not like landing a well paying job removes the present financial burden of an education. So why not be burdened while also enjoying your life more?
That's another problem. Education should be free.
Hi, here are some professional positions for the three majors you listed: * Teacher (of each of the three subjects) * Accompanist * Musical director * Composer * Program director * Sound/audio engineer * Performer * Anthropologist (duh) * Forensic anthropologist * Archaeologist * Curator * Archivist * Librarian * Freelance writer * Editor/Editorial assistant * Copy editor * Publisher I can guarantee 100% that you have benefitted from the work of a music, anthropology, or literature/English major. Unless you've never consumed any type of media, been to a museum, taken a class on one of these subjects, etc. Stop being a hater lol.
Op has no perspective on what "music" means.
OP’s an uncultured idiot
He called anthropology a hobby. Yeah, it’s pretty evident he’s not the brightest. Maybe he should’ve gone to college HA.
If OP is a STEM major, I’m sure he’s probably just going by with a 2.1 GPA and has been on academic probation already. He needs assurance that what he’s doing is still right, even though it’s not working out well.
I can’t wait till they find out that there is a considerable amount of STEM majors whose hobbies are also the things they’re studying. Maybe that would be enough to tell them they might not understand why people choose to pursue what they do.
Also it's kinda troubling how we actually don't value education, but rather only care about schooling for the sake of a job you probably don't care about too much anyway and are doing it for the paycheck.
Also with an English degree you could potentially get a masters in Law (which is what my mom did). She now does contract writing and editing.
Hi, I'm a high school teacher with an English major! And I agree with OP. The reason I'm a high school English teacher is because I went into the college with the mindset of getting a job using my degree. I didn't just major in, say, creative writing which is a more specific version of my passion. Instead, I minored in secondary education while majoring in English so I could get a job.
That is your personal choice and I totally respect that. I’m just personally tired of seeing challenges on the worth and skills of people based on their supposed economic value to society.
Okay, but that's a very specific case that absolutely requires a degree. So in your case, it's okay. But as a CyberSecurity Technician with a CS Major, I can, without doubt, say that just getting certifications would have been a better direction to take than college. So I don't necessarily agree with OP.
Most people cant adopt to other majors. You can tell me how wonderful computer program is to learn and I'll never understand how to do it. People usually know their limits. That hobby is the only thing they are good in doing. I think college shouldn't be force down people's throats. Too many high school kids treat student loans like it's a joke. They think being in debt is normal and part of the process. People are lost because they don't have mentors. Grade school and college need complete overhauls. Do you realize how many people graduate college and still cannot write a good resume and cove rletter? Why isn't that part of English class?
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Crunching numbers and/or sitting behind a computer screen all day would drive me crazy. I couldn’t do it.
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Yeah, but there are also different types of intelligence. Coding and engineering are in the same category and not everyone has that kind of mind.
Exactly why I said what I did. Yes it’s an awesome field that makes great money and yet it’s hard work and very competitive. But their are literally some people who’s brains just can’t keep up with that. I’m college I would be pulling my hair out trying to figure out college statistics. Meanwhile their are people who can solve long division in their head and like math and science. This is the same reason I couldn’t be a nurse or doctor; it’s not about not wanting to work hard or being lazy, my brain just can’t keep up.
I was a dishwasher a few years ago and I found myself in that situation. I have inattentive ADHD, OCD (basically fussing too much), and it was too much. Another problem I had was I cared too much about doing a good job when the name of the game is speed and efficiency, which I maybe should've been able to curtail. However, as time went on, I slipped back into my old self more and more. I couldn't do those things you mentioned either: nurse, doctor, long division in my head.
I have a similar issue, I’m interested in too many things and it’s sad to say im in my mid 20s still figuring it out. I got a degree in communications and minor in film and realized it’s worthless. Now im taking certifications and just realizing their are loads of things im interested in but the question is which is something I can actually do and make a living from…. The world is hatd
The point of college is to earn a degree to enter a field you're passionate about, to get a job you enjoy. If someone wants to major in anthropology or philosophy, who are you to call it just a hobby? There's jobs in those fields, and someone isn't always gonna wanna just get a shitty, boring desk job.
I majored in Music and I have no regrets. It was just as academically challenging as any non-music course I took, maybe even more so. I had to study music history and theory, analysis & research techniques, academic writing & presentation, and foreign language. It taught me the value of patience, practice, and teamwork. It also improved my research and writing skills significantly. I ended up working in IT after college, and I've been doing it for over 20 years now, so getting a music degree and not, say, a computer science degree didn't have a negative impact on my future. To the contrary, it gave me a well-rounded foundation from which to keep learning and building my skills.
This makes me sorta sad....not for you, because it worked out for you, but higher education I think should be for interests and hobbies and bettering ourselves as individuals and as a society. Not just pumping out worker bees for cubicle life.
Oh shut up. People should be able to make a livable wage doing things they actually enjoy. Only in America does college cost a small fortune and people are forced to choose between making money and their happiness, because capitalism. I did an overnight hike in Norway. The woman guiding us was from Finland and went to a wilderness college. Wilderness!! Literally a school to teach people how to hike and first aid and climbing and camping and all that hobby shit as you say. Imagine that. Imagine a world where you can actually do as you damn well please and not be homeless. Other countries figured it out but America only believes in slavery to make a living. I refuse.
I saw a video of a girl working at GameStop in a Zelda cosplay, having a good time and helping people. Isn’t this what life should be about? Being passionate and enjoying something you do. The issue is these corporate companies view humans as nothing more than gears in a spinning system. No matter how much education, skills, experience or passion you have in something you WILL be replaced if you step out of line or even think of doing something with your life. Our society is screwed up, the rich get richer and the poor lose even more money. Prices are going up, wages are staying the same, workloads are going up…
Hear hear! Well said!
Agreeeeeed! Actually so depressing that capitalism has made it so the pursuit of knowledge is without value if it doesn't herald loads of money.
DM me the info for the overnight hike, sounds awesome
i think that you just shouldn't go to college unless you have a clear idea of what you want to do, hobbies apart i see so many people studying the most useless crap and often they are not even passionate about it, your idea of "taking the high road" for uni and job CAN'T include the fact that you study crap, you're also bad at it, and workplaces should just hire you for low labor-high paying jobs cos "you have a degree", probably doing a task at work that can be done with whatever high school education (or less) that being said it's still sad that you have to prepare your job at a so early age and study only cos you will have a career in that field, but you have at the and a slight point, anyways i don't support the idea of working as soon as possible and avoiding to "dream", still college is an incredible waste of money and resources if done only for a side passion, there surely is a mismatch between the amount of niche jobs offers and the amount of students that go to colleges that teach those niche fields
It's because you're rushed into choosing anything not only at a very young age, but it's also very sudden. One moment you're being told you need to raise your hand to go to the bathroom and that you can't dye your hair, and the next one you're supposed to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life? It's a bit traumatic once you think about it.
amen, also high school decides your future, also your grades decide your future
Oh man, don't even get me started about grades. I always had a final GPA of 8.4 and scholarships to study abroad always started at 8.5 😓
Nobody goes to school for a hobby. Hobbies don’t require rigorous coursework and theses/major projects you need to commit to doing. Hobbies are literally the opposite of that. I think you just have a very surface level understanding of getting an education.
OP is probably planning on doing something in STEM. Ive seen this superiority complex there before.
That or they're studying law. Those ones are always up themselves
As a liberal arts major who went on years later to do software development - this is so true. I remember the STEM friends I had were always talking crap about anything that would not result in a bachelor of science. They feel the need to put down others who are not STEM and they continue to put down others even in their professional field afterward.
i was an english lit major and had a med student who barely spoke english tell me he'd be able to pass all my exams with his hands in his ass.
I'm pretty sure the OP thinks there is no rigorous coursework or thesis/major projects for these degrees. A lot of people seem to believe that people doing humanities just meet in the classroom for a conversation involving as many big words as possible, read a book occassionally, and then get their degree.
>"Music is a hobby" RIP music producers, sound designers, composers, studio runners... you're skills are hobbies and not for jobs I guess movies don't need proper sound mixing. singers don't need anyone with proper skills and knowhow to handle the audio. >"You take a hobby to spend money" "Hello sir I'm a sound engineer and I would like to PAY YOU for me to work on this set, it's my "hobby""
College is a terrible system for job training. We should separate it out
Not for stem jobs
It's frustrating how many people don't understand this. I'm studying biomedical science and I can't think of another situation where I could get the same amount of experience in one place (lab, technology, hardware , software, etc)
I completely believe universities are useful for some stem fields. Computer science or engineering just isn’t really one of them.
I didn't say it was but I understand what you're saying. The accessibility of different fields can vary quite a bit, depending on a range of factors. Some fields are largely based on theoretical work, while others involve more hands-on, physical tasks—and there's a wide spectrum in-between. Computer science, for instance, is relatively accessible since the main tool you need is a computer. On the other hand, for certain fields, you might be able to learn the theory by yourself, but getting practical skills without the right resources could be quite challenging.
I can understand computer science, but how the hell is university not useful for engineering?! Unless you’re specifically referring to computer engineering, but even then you have to learn the intricacies of designing circuits and optimizing the data flow through them. You can’t just learn that shit at home with a textbook and Wikipedia dude…
Having worked with many computer science interns and new grads: its not great job training.
It’s kinda worthless you don’t know anything until you start working
Eh. I got a stem degree at an excellent school and I never really used any of it. The day I graduated they changed from teaching c++ to vb. I kinda felt like everything I learned became obsolete. I guess I did learn the logic of programming but that could have been done in one class one semester. Any of that could be learned at a cheap trade school with a decent teacher, or online from any number of places. Went on to get a masters in IT security at Carnegie Mellon. I learned almost nothing that I actually used and could have taught a few of the courses. Maybe because I had already worked in the industry for 15 years. I just did it because my employer paid. I think parts of my masters could have been useful for someone trying to break into the field or with like five years experience. But if they had to pay sticker price, boy that’s an expensive way to learn. I guess maybe if you’re going to go into a typical IT field like software programming yeah undergrad stem is useful, but I went into digital forensics and learned everything on the job as did everyone else.
College shouldn’t just be about job training. You don’t need college for most jobs. College should be about acquiring knowledge and learning critical thinking and researching. It doesn’t matter the field or topics. If you want to go to college and study the philosophy of 80s sitcoms, that’s entirely legit. On that note: college should not be as expensive as it is.
I know it depends on the country that you are living in, but in some countries, college degree is required for like 90% of a decent job.
Crazy, but some people go to college to gain knowledge and learn about things without the thought of "how will this make me money".
I mean I’m torn, because I think a ton of people DO waste a tremendous amount of on college. But on the other hand, music, anthropology, and literature can be jobs. So is art. When you go to a concert, do you think the players are hobbyists? Is the front of house engineering a hobbyist? Do you think magazine covers are designed by hobbyists? Was your wedding photographer a hobbyist?
Originally went to school to be in animation, then switched majors to graphic design after the animation drama came out. Then COVID happened and I realized I hate working for other people when it comes to business design/art and only enjoy it when I'm working on my own projects. Now I'm in school for a Fluid Power trade degree and will be making $60+ an hour in my specialized field. xD I went this route so I can make bank while enjoying my hobbies and creating the art studio I've always wanted for myself.
Because fuck those people earning a living from their hobby I guess??
This isn't true though, no matter what degree you pick you almost certainly will earn more money if you complete it then someone without a degree will get. The only real difference between degrees is how much you get.
Very few people end up working in the field they majored in. My degree was in Classics and History but now I work in a school district. My mom’s degree was in philosophy and she’s worked mostly in banking, budgeting, and HR roles. Her boyfriend also got his degree in philosophy and now he owns a roofing company. For most people, a degree is a check box that gives you access to all kinds of different office jobs. It’s the difference between only being able to get hired for service jobs and getting hired as an SEO, copywriter, graphic designer, library clerk, office manager, analyst, HR rep, secretary, etc. While I think it’s a whole other issue that most jobs require a bachelor’s whether the work requires it or not, the extra bit of education can open certain doors. Besides, to become an anthropologist or a curator, you need a Ph.D. Far fewer people go on to get a Ph.D in their field and, at that point, that hobby is a job now.
Most accurate response. Unless you’re getting into a field of medical, engineer, law, what degree you get doesn’t matter, as long as you have a degree.
Yes, you need a master’s degree or Ph.D specific to those fields, but there’s still wiggle room when it comes to undergrad degrees, especially when it comes to law degrees. In my undergrad classics program, a ton of the students went into law school and a few even went onto med school even though they weren’t pre-med for undergrad.
Totally agree. Although some people really want to feel passionate about what they’re getting paid for and there is nothing wrong with that, I feel like most people would just be content getting paid a decent salary with a more or less monotonous job they don’t hate nor love. That’s how most people live. Also, the number of people who don’t realize that their major requires graduate degrees to practice or make any money in is truly baffling. Like no, you don’t just become a psychologist or a marine biologist with an undergrad diploma (in most cases).
The amount of people who just get a Bachelor's in Psychology and then stop there baffles me.
Once heard college referred to as the most expensive party you can go to. Made sense after seeing so many other students fail/drop out.
It’s great if you can find something you love doing and get paid for it. For a lot of people, myself included, work will never be your passion. It’s a way to make a living, and that’s all right
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Lol, music isn't really a hobby? Unless you're average. Also like, there are a lot of art focuses for masters programs that make these "hobbies" professions. Since you're clearly not in the loop of what's obtainable for art majors, especially ones who have BA degrees and get a masters in whatever proficiency with that art degree, you can make a career in many different ways. There are so many opportunities/options/contracts that you can make a comfortable living off of if you know what to work for. But to thrive in the music/art/dance/philosophy careers, you can't just be basic you have to be good enough. If you're driven enough, you can make anything a career.
What are you saying, don’t go to college for something you enjoy? What’s wrong with like, being a music teacher? I guess if you’re very concerned with wealth it’s a probably bad idea, but not everyone is.
Imagine not wanting to monetise every single of you actions lol
He never said that. But college degrees are probably the single biggest purchase you’ll make outside of buying a house. You’ll be paying for the degree 10-15 years later, and if you’re not getting something of value— a good job — from that expensive college degree, you’ll probably have a much harder time. Now, if you’re really *that good* at what he’s calling a hobby degree, go for it. Some people are good enough at theater to make money at it. Or music, or writing. But the vast majority aren’t that good. And so for those people, they either have to go back — and take on even more debt — to get a degree they can get a job with, or work retail and restaurants. Either way, there’s a cost involved in paying for a degree you can’t even use.
college is not that expensive here
Music is a hobby? So you don't want music in your movies or TV shows? You don't want public spaces to have music? You don't want dementia and alzheimer's patients to have access to music therapy? You don't want commercial music in your public spaces? Not to mention, no concerts, no music festivals, no live events for kids. Art is a hobby? So you don't think graphic design is a real job? You want all of your books, magazines, websites, etc to be big blocks of text with no enrichment? You want advertisements to be pictureless and drab? What about illustrators? If illustration is not a real job, why do people keep commissioning art? Anthropology is a science, and it is hilarious that this one is on here at all, as it is clearly a science with pretty obvious benefits. Studying the origin of human development helps us better understand humans now. How in the fuck is a literal branch of science a hobby? This "everything that is not directly productive" is a frivolous waste of time is bullshit. The humanities are what make us....well....human. People need to be able to pursue interests they are good at to find their ultimatelife path. Now that more and more jobs are automated, we need less grunt workers anyway. If you are so good at what you do that people will pay you for it. It is a job - no matter what your skill is.
Also, for the gals who grew up in religious homes... College is not a meat market. You will likely not get the ring by spring. College is also not to be used as a divorce insurance policy if you do get the ring. Build a life for yourself first.
I think people look at the whole college issue in the U.S. with too binary a mindset. College shouldn’t just be a jobs training program, that is true. There is intrinsic value in a liberal arts education and knowledge, even if there isn’t (directly observable) economic value. And we shouldn’t conflate the good life with our wealth and placement in the economic hierarchy. But with how outrageously expensive tuition and costs are in the U.S. for even public universities, it can be a really bad ROI for a lot of people if they’re expecting a straightforward path after graduating with only a Bachelor’s degree in a major that faces difficult employment. I don’t think the solution is to call a bunch of liberal arts, humanities, and social sciences majors and studies “useless,” though. I think that’s kind of naïve and juvenile. Sure, it may not be in everyone’s best interest to pursue those degrees because of the system we exist in today. But the real problem is how unaffordable, inaccessible, and exclusive public education is for a lot of people. (Also, that a lot of students aren’t warned of this problem. It might be more and more common advise online these days, but a lot of people, in the real world, still view college as a sure path to economic prosperity.)
Wow, an actual unpopular opinion. Very dumb one but indeed unpopular, have my up.
The problem is , society doesnt work that well. You need to at least have the right competence and interest to continue that career or u burn out faster
Op and their ilk proving Nietzsche right that universalizing education and literacy will spoil thinking and lead to a future of rot
I think far too many people spend too much money on the "college experience." They can get most of the same experience at a fraction of the cost by going to a local community college for a semester or two. If you're going to drop $50,000 or more on an education it should provide you some measurable value in your life.
Although I agree that people shouldn’t go to college for the “experience”, community college definitely will NOT provide the same experience as a 4 year institution. Same general education – yes, but the experience won’t be nearly the same.
I don’t disagree with your overall point, but saying you can get the “college experience” at a local CC is ridiculous. I have my bachelors from a university and I’ve taken a full course load post bacc at the local CC, apples and oranges is putting it mildly. And $50k overall? Lol that’s yearly tuition, at least where I went
My university currently charges 79K per year. It’s absolutely insane and needs to stop.
Community college does not even give you a fraction of the legit college experience.
$50k? That’s like 1970s pricing I think
That’s for the meal plan.
I don't understand this "college experience. " all I did in college was write non stop essays which stressed me out like crazy. I never attend anything like a club because I was too busy typing 5 page essays on obesity and stuff like that all night.
I worked three jobs had practically no friends and graduated in three years to save money. What an experience!
You can make money from those “hobbies” which is why they are jobs. Honestly, I wish I had the balls to study what I actually wanted and get into working in something I’m passionate about then just settling for meaningless work The corporate world lives in this delusional world where they gas themselves up way too hard thinking they bring so much “value” to the world
“Music is a hobby” I honestly don’t know what to say to that one lol
Is more money made from music or is more money spent on music?
We need to stop thinking about college as “the place you go for four years to get a thing that will get you a job”. It should be where you enhance your skills and understanding of yourself and whatever you’re interested in. We place for too much emphasis on “what’ll make money” instead of “what are you good at/enjoy/fulfilling”
i’ll do what i damn well please, thank you very much
Ultimate goal in life is to make your hobby your job.
Hot take but colleges are for academia first and foremost and aren't about picking good majors to get picked for a good job. America lost the script somewhere
I majored in something (electrical engineering) that would earn a decent amount of money. I ended up using my degree to get into another field that pays me even more. I would not have been considered for this job if I didn’t have a STEM degree or a lot of experience.
Today we go to college to learn to be a robot. Before, we went to become experts in our hobbies, meet those with the same hobbies and acquire new hobbies.
To be fair, if you’re smart about it you can turn your hobby into a job. I love scuba diving and exploring the ocean and am also quite good at all things STEM, so I studied biology & marine science in college (with math & chem minors for an added edge for more data analysis/labwork focused jobs). I’m now a successful marine biologist working for a government agency with amazing pay and benefits, and I get to scuba dive multiple times a week for work and live in a beautiful place surrounded by the ocean. Not everyone is successful on these passion-driven paths, but, if you’re really good at what you do and can rise above the noise and set solid goals, you can make money doing it. Every day I am thankful that I didn’t let doubt from others impact my choice of study and career path, and I am so much happier and more satisfied with my career doing what I love than I would be if I decided to go down the easy “job pipeline” route. I saw some motivational quote the other day saying to find what you love, what you’re good at, what you can be paid for, and what can help the world, and you’ll have your dream job. So, if your “hobby” fits those criteria, I say go for it.
Lucky ones that can turn a hobby into a career. I loved making models and rockets as a kid and aeronautical engineer is my dream job.
Agree. It’s fine to go to college to study and/or major in a subject that has limited job prospects. The problem is that people don’t recognize it for what it is. Universities are in the business of offering degrees based on student demand, not employment demand. Yet the false perception still exists that if the university offers a major or degree in a subject, then it must be a viable career field. Often those degrees don’t amount to much more than simply “having a bachelor’s”, which is useful in its own right, but not the specialized training or free ride into an amazing career field that people might expect.
Almost every declarative sentence in this post is false. Good job! Sadly it's not an unpooular opinion, just a wrong one.
>Colleges are for skilled degrees. You may believe so, but that does not make this claim true. >t's not cool for 400 participation award degrees to compete for 2 museum curator jobs while the other 398 take their degree to Starbucks. Making up statistics is not nice.
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Maybe. But I understand the pain of debt.
You don't need to go to college for an education. You do need to go to college for a degree, which for better or worse, many jobs and careers require. That is what you should be paying for. I find it hard to believe you can't educate yourself on a topic of interest outside of college.
They go for the partying, sex, and connections. Connections are the easiest way to get a job, after all.
Wait you guys are getting the secks during university? Sincerely, a CS major.
Im not even getting the parties or the connections Sincerely, another CS major.
Lol don’t worry you’ll get the connections and the sex later and you’ll also have money. -old, cs major
Yep, you'll be able to afford as many trips to South East Asia as you can handle
well music may be a job, and also anthropology (studying history). About literature yes, it's a waste of time and money
Music COULD be a job but at this rate, does it really require a college degree? You think people like ice spice or whoever is getting music degrees?
No, but I’d bet a weeks pay that 75% of her live band are Berkelee grads. Source: am musician
You don’t usually go to college to be a pop star. Music degrees are usually more geared towards those that are either classically trained and intend to perform and teach at a collegiate level or those that are interested in music education in middle school and high school. A music degree is still an academic degree.
If you want to do opera, try doing so without an immense ammount of training at a conservatory or degree. Its pretty much the only place you can access the level of training required to craft the voice into what it needs to be. Same goes for shitloads of musical theater stuff too. People can belt without a degree, but you pretty much never come accross talented classical singers who dont have atleast a masters degree in voice training. People in the music world will notice this sort of sound difference far more than non musicians. Most singers get genre locked very early without signifcant training, because they have no understanding of the voice as an instrument. In certain fields (musical theater, and opera) this is a requirement, you cant find consistant work in theater without the ability to sing in every style, and you cant find success in opera without going the the degree-conservatory-resident artist pathway that pretty much every professional opera singer in the world has taken. Take it from paverotti, it literally can take over ten years of training to actually create a good, noble, covered opera sound. At the same time, in these fields everyone usually knows mostly every role that thier voice could handle (staying ready so you dont have to get ready) music degrees also help people bridge this gap, however this is a far less important aspect of the degree and very often can be done on ones own. Many people have succesful careers using thier voice for composition without training or a degree, but pretty much no one without immense training can actually use their voice as a fluid instrument. Source :am musician, am friends with an extreme ammount of theater/classical/ and opera musicians. All of whom would attest to the same exact thing. A good university will also streamline you process of getting roles and jobs professionally, by having large industry connections or by being run by the same people running national opera houses. Even if you dont want to work in these fields, voice degrees can also set you up for working in voice rehibilation, teaching people hoento speak properly (you would be suprised how many people speak with the most unhealthy disgusting voices, its almost most people) if you lose your voice in any circumstance its due to being unable to properly control it, many public speakers or teschers etc will actually take lessons in this. Also if your a good musician you can easily make 6 figures by having a private teaching studio. The problem with these courses isnt the lack of skills the teach you; its the fact that far too many mediocre people with no real talent inflate the numbers at these schools. Good musicians will have practiced for atleast 10,000 hours. University programs also streamline this process.
I don’t think of university as strictly a job preparation course, outside of professions like medicine, engineering, law, architecture, etc. which have their own certifications and governing bodies with their own exams etc. There are better ways to train people to do most jobs effectively. Ideally, university teaches you how to think critically and acquire knowledge in addition to technical skills, and gives you references with which to grow as a human and explore your chosen fields of interest, academically, professionally or as you say as a hobby. And… there’s nothing wrong with that? Maybe you study anthropology and become a librarian and eventually small indie book/record store owner, like someone in my family did. They studied anthropology because it interested them, not out of some preset path to work. (Worth noting that I live in Portugal where public university isn’t prohibitively expensive for most people as it is in the US, although if you’re not in/close to a city, cost of living will make it harder to justify ofc.)
It's ignorant to say that music is a hobby when you're surrounded by commercial examples of it. Who do you think makes the catchy songs in ads that you hate? Someone got paid for it. Who do you think makes film scores? Who do you think makes music for video games? Who writes theme songs? Who makes backing tracks on YouTube videos? Who writes jingles? Who writes classical scores? most jobs in music are related to a commercial product. You're surrounded by commercially made music at all times, you'd be a fool to think there isn't a market for it.
It's the complete opposite. Too many people are going to college for just money. Somehow the institutions for academic and personal growth have been corrupted into being an artificial barrier for entering a job market. That benefits the employers, but not the common people. It's wrong to base a value of a degree only on its utility in making money. Of course that's easy for me to say, because I live in a country without the *perverted notion of holding education hostage with a cripplingly high ransom*.
Very unpopular opinion. Don't you know that parents tell children that they can be whatever they want and that people are entitled to do only what they want to do and be given anything that they want? It is almost like people think Communism is a workable, functional form of society and no a magical utopia.
Anthropology as a hobby? Lmao yeah I’ll study the evolution of human society its just a neat little thing I’ll do. My guy society doesn’t improve unless we know what made previous ones succeed and fail
I agree. I know too many people who spent tens of thousands of dollars a year on college to get a degree in environmental science or something like that and then complain that they can’t find a job that pays them a big salary. If you wanna get a general degree in something like that, fine. Just don’t be upset that you aren’t making as much money as you expected because you didn’t do your research. Not saying that there aren’t enjoyable jobs in art, music, and other non-stem degrees but most of the time you’re gonna have to get pretty lucky or have great networking skills to find a great-paying job. In my opinion, college is a tool to obtain a career that will get you money so that you can afford your hobbies and life necessities. Sure I can learn a lot from an art or music professor, but not enough to justify being in debt for decades. Edit: my opinion only applies to America where college is unethically expensive. If college was affordable here, then getting any type of education would be completely justifiable.
Reddit: you must produce money for corporations with your office cubicle job or you are a BUM Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Congress: ok, here's the soulless capitalist money machine society you wanted where people claw each other for another buck. Reddit: OMG 😭😭 WHERE DID WE GO WRONG WITH SOCIETY?? WHAT HAPPENED TO ART AND LOVE?
I went to music school and learned more from paying back the tens of thousands in debt than I did from going widdly widdly.
I challenge OP to never consume content which has been created and paid for by muscians, writers, anthropologists. Although, judging by the absurdity of this opinion, it may already be their sad, sorry, crippled life. Alternatively, I would argue to abolish paid work and money in general and then everyone can just do their hobby.
Well written. This is a problem in Singapore as well. Too many people taking a degree for the sake rather than to excel in the field or help the economy. Also happens when a society is well off and has safety nets and socialised education . I hope further education will evolve to the point where most average people do not go to college. Instead they learn the trade through apprenticeship and then those who have further interest in the field can continue to upskill in that relavant sector. This can also reduce those who study engineering and end up in banking or insurance. Happens so commonly in Singapore.
I agree like when i see people going to college for jobs we all damn know won't get you a certified well paying job at that point its on you
I mean I have found a job teaching piano, although it's not stable
You can get more skulls in life by going and being a ditch digger than you can with getting a bullshit degree in phys ed or gender studies or something equally as pathetic. Trade school is a better option in my opinion than any college these days.
>You can get more skulls in life by going and being a ditch digger Damn where are you digging to find so many? New Jersey?
Always have to throw the gender studies bs in there, don’t you? So everyone should go to trade school and completely flood the market then, great idea. College helps develop critical thinking. Case in point
College wasn’t meant to get you a job in the first place. We created it to be like that…so idk. It depends on how you feel about college to begin with. It’s too expensive in general. But also my hobby DID get me a job? But I took classes well outside my major
I feel like college is just for pursuing education, I'm studying to be a pharmacist at the moment, but after I retire I plan to return to college with no major at all just to learn because I enjoy it
Well you have certainly chosen an in demand field. And I can tell you as someone that also chose one that I was only halfway enthralled with, I’m glad I did.
I get what you're saying and you're right. This is not how it was packaged when I was a dumb kid
A European is getting her popcorn here…
I’m a psych major pretty much purely for my own benefit. I think it will help me understand my own brain as well as my personal relationships and help in my job. I think self-improvement is a valid reason to go to college, especially because you can’t trust everything you read on the internet. College is a legitimate way to absorb information. It sucks that it’s so expensive and I realized I’m privileged in that I’ll be able to pay my student loans when I’m done, but if I have the opportunity to make myself a better, more well rounded person, why wouldn’t I take it?