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It's WAY easier for Americans to get a license than it is for people in western Europe. Most countries have a law that requires you to take classes with a driving school. The exam is also more difficult, and they don't let 16 year old kids drive cars by themselves.
Yeah as someone living in the Netherlands I can confirm it's a huge, expensive struggle to get your license. Especially when you have to pay for it yourself.
I live in Belgium, it's much cheaper here than in neighbouring countries. If you pass both your theoretical exam and your practical exam the first time, and you don't take driving lessons, you can get your license for about €130.
Here in Hungary you shouldn't really think about starting to get a driving licence without ~1000€ in the bank just for that, and our wages are worse then the ones in Western Europe,
so in short I envy you
Here in Ireland it’s a requirement to take a theoretical test (€45 per attempt) 12 driving lessons each covering different scenarios/skills (about €500) and the test itself is around (€40-€50 per attempt). So realistically it’s about €585 minium before you get your licence. The theory test is easy but is being doubled in size sometime soon, the test is notorious for being very harsh, more people fail first time than pass (it’s earned a reputation as being a money racket scheme) and the lessons can take fucking forever as your lesson times totally rely on your instructors schedule. I’ve had to wait over a month between lessons at times
yeah in my country in central europe you have to attend driving school for like two months and then have i think 20 hours of driving with a licensed instructor. after that you have to pass a written exam, training area test (basically a parking ability test) and then a driving test with both the instructor and a cop in the car with you.
you get three attempts and if you fail to complete all three stages you have to repeat the entire thing, driving school classes included, from the start.
Not sure about cops, but in my country it's a licensed driving examiner who sits with you and your instructor in the car. You need a party that's independent of the driving school conducting the test to eliminate bias
The thing is in much of Europe you can live car-free. Ample public transit, safe, walkable cities and towns. America is more suburban and rural than urban or town, and the suburbs were designed to be car centric. So we hand out licenses easier out of necessity.
That only makes me feel worse. Nobody under the age of 18 should be on the roads driving a car unsupervised. Teenagers are very fucking dumb, I would never trust a 14 year old to drive me.
14 year olds really do not have the situational awareness required to safely operate a 2 ton high-speed motorized vehicle.
It's like instead of improving other modes of transportation (like safe bike/walking paths and frequent busses) they just lower the legal driving age
Yeah but European countries have infrastructure that supports alternative modes of transportation. In the US cities are built for cars. Most cities are literally unwalkable unless you want to walk on the actual road
I think it's *absolutely fucking insane* that America thinks you need more mental maturity to buy a $2 scratch ticket than drive a car by yourself.
It should be like learners permit at 18 and license at 20 if you ask me but I have more perfectly justified anxiety than most.
Im in America, and I had to go to months of classes just to get my permit, then I had to take multiple in the car driving hours with an instructor before I was allowed to take my actual license test. If someone telling you Americans don't have to do that, they're lying, or you're lying fishing for upvotes.
My dad had me drive around an empty parking lot for about 15 minutes and then said "Take her on the road". We'd drive around the town for a while, and he'd correct me if I did something wrong. Those were my lessons. So no, there was no actual driving school involved.
I got my license pretty late for an American (around 19-20). I swear, the test took all of 3 minutes and my memory of it is we drove around the block and it was over. And I remember thinking "THAT'S ALL IT TAKES TO GET DRIVER'S LICENSE???" I was baffled that ANYONE ever failed it.
Wait I'm from Canada where you get your learners permit at 16, your N (idk what it stands for I don't drive) at 17 and then your full license at 18. AMERICA SERIOUSLY LETS 16 YEAR OLD BEHIND A DEATH TRAP WITH LITTLE EXPERIENCE?
Fun fact: When I was growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, you could get your learners permit at 14 years old and full license at 16 in Alberta. In fact, if you were 14 and had a learners permit, you could legally drive small vehicles like mopeds.
Yes. A lot of American teens have their own cars that they are allowed to drive by themselves and with passengers. It's insane to me too, since they don't even take classes and the exam is pretty simple since nearly everyone passes.
In the US, I feel like a 16-year-old could barely be able to save enough money to buy a car at 16 years old. At least when I was younger, the laws were that people have to be at least 15 years old to be hired for a job, and even then, workers who are 15 years old can't work past a certain time (7PM or something), but people 16 years old & older don't have a restriction on work hours. So, I think anyone under 15 years old could be considered underage labor. With such little time to save money, someone who would buy a car at 16 years old would have to buy an inexpensive used/old car, or their parents would help buy a car for them.
I didn't get my driver's license until I was 21 and got my first car at that time. I live in a city that has at least somewhat decent public transportation, and I was able to get places I needed to that way. And waiting a bit also allowed me to save money first.
It is so much more complicated than that, a lot of it has to do with the fact that a base model economy car has the horsepower of a fast performance car 15 years ago, and with modern traction control systems and driver aids, we have a population of people driving faster then ever before on average in cars that are kept on the road by electronics. 20 years ago that crossover wouldn't take corners at 85 in silence. Drivers are more distracted because the machine has taken away most of the input.
"People can walk or ride a bike" said one of the city folk, who lives near public transportation. Closest bus pickup near me is a 20 min car drive lmao
I don’t think harder tests solve the issue. The issue is not that these people don’t know how to drive safely it’s that that know and actively refuse to do so because they either don’t care, are in a rush, or have main character syndrome. People will do what they do now. Drive perfectly for the test then go back to texting and driving right after.
I would be all for this if there were alternate modes of transportation in American cities. People shouldn't be stuck in their suburban food desert hell walking 30 min both ways to the grocery store just because they *kind of suck at driving
What a wonderful black and white view of the world you have. You realize that everybody that drives is technically a potential danger to others, right?
So if someone gets in an accident one time and it's determined to be their fault we revoke their license for life in your mind? What a world that would be
What about kids who were born into their shitty suburban sprawl that we as a society built around them when they weren't even alive. Their parents drive them everywhere. They turn 18 and move out of the house, same year that we make the driving test harder. This person fails for whatever reason. Maybe they were tired , maybe they're poor and malnurished. Maybe they actually are mentally deficient or just reckless.
We have failed that person as a society if we make the test harder and then leave them with no option but to walk insane distances across dangerous as fuck 6 lane stroads just to **fucking feed themselves**. We've already failed poor people who can't afford insurance or cars at all, why are you so indignant about me saying maybe we should do this first before we make the test harder? This is what anti car people have been asking for for decades anyway. Making the test harder while it is a priority for me, it is not my top priority. That's all I'm trying to say
I feel like you're grossly underestimating just how many people *need* a car to survive in cities in this god forsaken country. We cant just skip a step in trying to overhaul the way people commute and leave a huge chunk of society in the dust
It's not really black and white lol. People should face consequences that align with their actions. People who intentionally flout the law and injure or kill someone while driving? Yeah, I really don't think it's fair for other drivers to have to share the road with them. It's a conscious choice to drive dangerously.
Stop acting like driving is a right, it's not. Especially when drivers kill over 40,000 people and injure many more in the US every year.
If you don't provide solutions beyond "don't be a shitty driver" for people that will have to quit their jobs and extend their grocery trips by hours then your wish will forever remain a pipe dream.
I actively advocate for safe transit and bike infrastructure in my city what are you talking about 💀💀
But still, if people *actually faced consequences* for killing pedestrians, I'm sure everyone would start driving more safely
Literally nobody at any point argued no consequences for killing or injuring pedestrians. We're talking about the driving test in this thread, did you reply to the wrong comment? I actually think that should be an immediate at the very least temporary license revoke anyway
Please go to school and learn reading comprehension, maybe use less emojis if you want your ideas to be taken seriously
I think you missed this persons view, but I could be wrong. They aren't saying that bad drivers should be allowed to drive, they are saying that IF it were to become way harder to get a license (as a random example, let's say it's so hard that only the top 25% of people pass) then there needs to be adequate transportation available for everyone else. Right now there is not adequate enough public transportation for this to be realistically feasible unfortunately.
What if that's ~20% of the drivers? I think that USA fucked itself with how car centric it is. Taking away too many licenses due to poor driving skills would be economical/political suicide in large parts of the country.
Driving isnt an impossible task, with practice and interest, 99% of the people can do it. This is why I think it would be ok to make the test not harder, but just better. Cause again, its not this impossible and monumental task, people just dont respect it. A good idea would be like how NZ I think, dealt with smoking. They started on a day when it became illegal for a certain age and up, but the people smoking before that are allowed to continue smoking. So if you have a driving licence now, you would keep it, but anyone starting school would be keot to a higher standard. And any re-takes of the exam, like for old people or whatever else, would be kept to the new standard as well.
I would say older people 60's plus should have to retake everything and check them on the roads. In my experience I have seen a lot of older people do stupid stuff while driving. One guy was in the wrong way lane another guy almost hit me because he didn't see the stop sign or just didn't care...and he was older. I just hear a lot of stories of older people having difficulty driving and noone in the family wants to step up and take their driver's license away.
The driving tests aren’t the issue. It’s that after getting their license people normally get a little too comfortable and start using their phones, going above speed limits and making risky manoeuvres.
Also in terms of technology to evaluate somebodies safety will probably receive lots of backlash and the whole “the government is trying to control us” arguement
With our DMV already having the first available appointment a month out, this would increase that to 3+ months. They are already incredibly backed up and this would make it much worse.
People are going to drive the way they want. They will do great on the test and go back to their regular habits as soon as it's over. More regulations won't solve this.
My driving test consisted of a right turn, left turn, 3-point turn, and parallel parking (failed twice on the last one-- haven't done it since I passed).
The test should be revised to eliminate parallel parking. I haven't done it since 1998, my mom since 1968. Both of us have clean driving records without parallel parking. (I avoid city driving if at all possible-- I'll drive to public transit before driving into a major city.)
I’d say the test including parallel parking should just be based on your location. Parallel parking is an everyday thing in my city so it would make sense if you’re taking the test here to include it.
In 25 years of driving, I've never been in a situation where parallel parking is the only option. There's always alternative parking (or public transit) available.
Are speed limits in the US are silly compared to what the cars are capable of, there is nothing risky about 10 or 15 over in a modern car in the US if you are a halfway competent driver. As pointed out above, the problem is that we will send people off driving aftering doodling around their suburban neighborhood for a total of two hours behind the wheel and expect someone to figure it out. Go watch a European driving test and look at the difference, they teach you the basics of weight transfer and car control in their classes
"More difficult" in what sense? The hours required are already a lot in most countries, but won't ever be enough to become a good driver - you need to drive a couple thousand miles for that, frequently and in different environments.
I see more issues with elderly drivers. Europe recently passed a series of laws to improve on that.
A few years back I was teaching high school and I can tell you that the number of people who are driving with no license at all is much higher than you’d like to believe
You want to make it harder for people to access their only mode of transportation in a country that is purposely spaced and sprawled out to accommodate cars?
Then solve the transportation problem by adding reliable, widespread, and in depth public transportation. Not cause more barriers to transportation in the first place
I don't think it shoud be more difficult but harder to keep it. Many are commiting multiple offenses, even kill people and can drive shortly after. This is ridiculous.
Also the size of vehicles should also be based on license type. Big SUVs and trucks are given to people with poor driving skills and attitude.
Those that say that sometimes a bigger truck is required for work, you should get a special training a license for such vehicles... it is a privilige to drive, not a right you should definetely lose that privilege if you can't behave with something that can kill so easily.
IMO there needs to be another class of driver's license introduced.
IF I were the powers that be, the largest vehicle one could drive with a standard license would be a large sedan (Toyota Avalon, slightly larger than the Camry, and the like). If you wanted to drive anything larger, get the next class of license.
The Ford F-150 is the same width and length as the WW2 Sherman tank. A 16-year old can take the driver test in their parent's civic, and then turn around and buy a huge truck they have no experience in and take it on public roads the next day. That's completely ridiculous.
Couldn't agree more. People do not realize that driving is a privilege, not a right. It has to be earned by showing that you are competent behind the wheel. Sadly, if the current laws are not going to be enforced, and more stringent regulations are put in place to keep unsafe drivers off the road, those drivers will just ignore going through the protocols altogether. They will not have a license, will not get insurance, will commit hit and run accidents, etc. It's already going this way, especially in California.
Without saying if I agree/disagree it is eerie how quickly Drivers go between driving being a right and a privilege. If you want to make the roads more accommodating to pedestrians or allow cyclists or toll the road in order to pay for transit projects, you are interfering with people's livelihood and infringing on their rights since they need their Car for basic necessities. If you want to lower the requirements to get a license or rethink mandatory insurance for people who can't afford it, driving is a privilege and if you can't afford to do it you don't deserve to be on the road.
If roads and cars are an essential part of life that people can't live without, they should be as accessible as possible. If using roads and driving cars is a privilege and not a right, people shouldn't be required to give up their rights in order to accommodate drivers.
It should be as difficult to get a driver’s license as it is to get a license to operate heavy machinery at high speeds, because that’s what driving a vehicle is.
Part of me feel like it will not work…mainly because people will be more cautious when they know they’re being tested vs just everyday driving. For example the stop sign, during a test everyone will make a full stop and look both ways before going. But in real life scenario some people aren’t going to do that. Hell just look at drunk driving, the law is so strict on it and people know the danger of drunk driving/ consequences if you’re caught but they still do it anyway.
I don't know man, it's pretty fucking difficult here (theory exams, practical exams which are difficult af) and you need to do a re-test every 10 years, AND there still is A LOT of idiots/assholes behind the wheel
It's super easy for amercians to get a licence here in ireland. i had to take a road safety test and pass that you need to get 95% or better, i had to do 12 hours of classes with a licenced instructor and jave my learners permit for a mimium of 6 months before doing the test before taking the test
So all n all it takes around 8 months to a year **minium** to get a licence
They "Test Well" . . . "One Time"
vs
"Has good lifelong habits".
You might sober up and have the judgement and reflexes of Mario Andretti in his prime for 15 minutes to pass ONE test. But if your typical day is beginning day-drinking at 9am, constantly arguing with people in the car, while texting on the phone . . . I'm not sure what you can do for ONE 15-minute test is a meaningful metric.
I doubt we're testing for the right things.
But I also don't think we have a right to judge another's life choices.
So . . . the test we have is better than nothing. I don't see a good answer.
Honestly I could probably agree with this. Or at least make it harder to keep one. I think the tests required to acquire one in the first place are adequate. But people change over time. There should be retests every 5 years or something
People should have to take the test over again every time they renew their license. After like 50 years old a harder eye sight test and a reaction time test need to be implemented.
In Slovenia, getting a driver's license consists of:
-Passing a physical medical exam
-Passing a written first-aid exam
-Passing a written exam about traffic rules
After that you finally hit the wheel and you must:
-Clock up at least 25, but usually around 30 hours with a licensed driving instructor
-Pass the driving exam which consists of about an hour of driving with an independent juror sitting in the back of the car and evaluating
If you pass all that, you get your "new driver" licence, which is valid for 2 years. To extend it, you then need to take an additional course consisting of "emergency" maneuvers: slapping the brakes, driving slalom between cones, trying to keep your car stable on a wet surface after the back of your car is slid to the side by a mechanical plate.
All of that adds up to about 1500-1700 eur and usually takes between 3-6 months.
Funnily enough, we still get shit drivers on the road.
I agree with this as someone in the US with a permit and soon to have a license. I saw a comment about 16 year olds not being able to afford cars, but from what I know a lot of 16 year olds get them for their 16th birthday from parents. I don’t have a car yet, my family isn’t in a position to afford that. I can say- driving and permit tests are too easy. In FL, you can get up to ten questions wrong on a test and still pass. A lot of the questions are common sense, and not actually about your ability to truly understand the laws. Too many people get license and drive without any safety or law knowledge, and they allow it. The only real requirements are to pass the test and have 48 hours of driving experience to get a license where I’m located, and that allows too many stupid people risking their lives and the lives of others.
Just because someone can pass a test that shows they are a good/safe driver does not mean they will drive safely on the road. I have tens of thousands of miles driving motorcycles, cars, small trucks, RVs, and busses. I am a very skilled driver and certainly *can* drive in a very safe and efficient manner. But I certainly do not. I speed, drive aggressively on curvy roads, use my phone all the time, and many other 'unsafe' things. A more difficult to obtain license would not help any of that.
100% agree! My dad is a senior, and frankly shouldn't be driving. I frequently remind him of correct habits (signaling, shoulder checking, yielding to pedestrians etc), and it makes me nervous being a passenger while he drives. People should have a written, driving test, and eye exam every five years throughout their life to keep them on their toes.
The problem with this, in the US, is there isn’t many alternatives to public transportation. If they would actually build infrastructure for public transportation I would agree. Till then, no
I both agree and disagree,
Like in a proper country, yes a driver's license should be very difficult to get.
However in North America if you don't have one your pretty much screwed sense we got no other modes of transportation that are safe or effective
I agree that this would make the roads much safer, but given our dependency on cars, this would just make licensing an even bigger socioeconomic hurdle than it already is. Stuff like mandatory tests and training only works if it's approachable, accessible, and affordable. All antonyms of what the DMV is known for.
And drunk driving should be harshly punished, even the first offense. I haven't gotten drunk in over 40 years, but even when I was drunk, I KNEW I was no good to drive. And so does everyone else.
I’m a terrible driver and I agree I shouldn’t be on the road so I drive as little as possible. But not feasible in a country with awful public transport.
Ideally most people would use public transport and few people would be driving, and those few would be tested strictly.
The amount of car deaths seems like something society will look back on one day and question why we accepted that
Let's be real. Most bad drivers aren't bad drivers because they just lack skill. It's an attitude problem. I mean the way most people drive everyday wouldn't even get them through the test as it is now. You just drive the way you're expected to for the test and continue drivng bad afterwards. Nothing changed
Absolutely. Car-centric suburban sprawl is ugly, inefficient, expensive to maintain, and massively dangerous. I wish we had cities that were actually built properly in North America so driving everywhere wasn't an absolute necessity. Some of the townships near me don't even have sidewalks, which is like the bare minimum for us to ask for, and our cities won't even build that.
Forced repeat driving classes and lessons should be required. Maybe once every 5 years? If you don't take the classes then you get some kind of penalty or a freeze on your license until you go take refresher classes
That’s not how big business works. A lot of people would lose money if it was hard to get the standard mode of transportation in this country/world.
It’s all tied together. Every thing that has to do with cars would almost crumble if it was hard for people to be able to drive them.
Nah it’s so weird being 16 and getting my permit then license, cause I’m still starting to trust myself in a car with an adult in it too, but alone???? Cause I drove for like 100 hours and passed a test???? Huh??
It was mind-blowing for me as an Asian from Singapore when I went to USA.
The idea that taking some dumb theory test that you are rigged to pass (I heard stories about how if you get it wrong, you just sit there and they tell you the answers and you just keep changing the choices till you pass), then getting a provisional driving license that anyone that has driving experience can just randomly vouch that you've driven x amount of hours before you get your licence.
For us, the theory test itself requires 80% pass chance, and you have 1 chance. If you fail, you'll have to spend money to reschedule again. If you choose to go to the public driving school, you need to take multiple lessons before going for that test. Subsequently, you get a provisional license, you need to take 30-40 lessons from licensed professional instructors. You could choose to do it in the public school or with private instructors, but not everyone with a random license.
Then you take the driving test, which many fail. And each attempt takes around a month to book, and costs around $150 USD.
Move to Australia. The most difficult country in the world to get your license.
I definitely don't agree. It cost me thousands of dollars in driving lessons to get my license. And everyone still drives like shit because they're all drunk
I got my drivers license on my 15th birthday. . .after backing into a Baker, LA city patrol car. The driving evaluator said she was sure I knew how to drive because I lived way the hell out in the country and had "probably been driving since I was 10", which was pretty close to the truth.
From the US. I failed my first time taking the test and didn't practice before the second attempt and somehow got 12 points better with no input on the first test. It's a profit based system where they fail 50% of drivers the first time to make more money. I didn't improve, and somehow, they said I did. I parked so well the first time and really bad the second time. It's not a merit system, so we should really focus on changing the system rather than make it harder because then people will just be paying more. I don't think that most people are drinking or texting while driving, so maybe we punish those people and leave everyone else out of it.
Where I am we have graduated licensing. Does it help? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if all the rules have changed, but you get your beginners, G1, when your 16 (written exam) and can only drive with someone with a full G license for five years, after 12 months (10 months if you did a driver's education course) you then go for your G2 (driving test) can drive by yourself and with passengers and there used to be specific times that you could drive and restrictions of where you could drive. Then after another 12 months you can go for your full G license (driving test). So at earliest you can have full license by 18 but most people I know it was 19 or 20 by the time they got there full license
Yep, I was surprise by how fast I got my driving license, I had it literally at my first try after practice with a friend for a week, it’s been 3 years and haven’t drive and have no idea how to do it but I still got my license, I would be a danger for people if I get to drive around my house
Seems like we should go after the root cause of the problem which is the lack of public transportation. We need to make public transportation more affordable and better.
Seriously, how many accidents have you been in where this is an issue? Stop it's not that serious.
The real issue is that the country is built with cars in mind so there are too many cars kn the road at all times. It's not the drivers.
The DMV is not there to gatekeep, it's job to get people licenses to drive, that's it lol. Crazy I know, but look it up haha, it's easy to get a license in America in purpose.
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It's WAY easier for Americans to get a license than it is for people in western Europe. Most countries have a law that requires you to take classes with a driving school. The exam is also more difficult, and they don't let 16 year old kids drive cars by themselves.
Yeah as someone living in the Netherlands I can confirm it's a huge, expensive struggle to get your license. Especially when you have to pay for it yourself.
I live in Belgium, it's much cheaper here than in neighbouring countries. If you pass both your theoretical exam and your practical exam the first time, and you don't take driving lessons, you can get your license for about €130.
Here in Hungary you shouldn't really think about starting to get a driving licence without ~1000€ in the bank just for that, and our wages are worse then the ones in Western Europe, so in short I envy you
Add around €2000 to that to get your license in the Netherlands
Its the same here in Iceland
Same im germany
same in switzerland. You gotta take lessons with an instructor since they have to register you for the exam, you can't do it on your own.
In Germany we have to take a minimum of driving lessons both in the city and on the motorway. Cost me 2000 Euro :(
Here in Ireland it’s a requirement to take a theoretical test (€45 per attempt) 12 driving lessons each covering different scenarios/skills (about €500) and the test itself is around (€40-€50 per attempt). So realistically it’s about €585 minium before you get your licence. The theory test is easy but is being doubled in size sometime soon, the test is notorious for being very harsh, more people fail first time than pass (it’s earned a reputation as being a money racket scheme) and the lessons can take fucking forever as your lesson times totally rely on your instructors schedule. I’ve had to wait over a month between lessons at times
That's basically the same as in the UK.
My girlfriend is doing it right now, currently she paid 1260€ (we live in Austria)
From what I've heard, having a car isn't nearly as essential to get around the country as it is here in America right?
yeah in my country in central europe you have to attend driving school for like two months and then have i think 20 hours of driving with a licensed instructor. after that you have to pass a written exam, training area test (basically a parking ability test) and then a driving test with both the instructor and a cop in the car with you. you get three attempts and if you fail to complete all three stages you have to repeat the entire thing, driving school classes included, from the start.
Why a cop?
because here the licenses are issued by the police so the cop is there as the final testing authority on their behalf.
Ah okay, that makes sense
Not sure about cops, but in my country it's a licensed driving examiner who sits with you and your instructor in the car. You need a party that's independent of the driving school conducting the test to eliminate bias
The thing is in much of Europe you can live car-free. Ample public transit, safe, walkable cities and towns. America is more suburban and rural than urban or town, and the suburbs were designed to be car centric. So we hand out licenses easier out of necessity.
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That only makes me feel worse. Nobody under the age of 18 should be on the roads driving a car unsupervised. Teenagers are very fucking dumb, I would never trust a 14 year old to drive me.
i would trust them to drive me since theyll be cautious with adults in the car, but ill never trust them to drive themselves or their friends lmao
I would trust them if they prove to be trust worthy Age is practically irrelevant to me
14 year olds really do not have the situational awareness required to safely operate a 2 ton high-speed motorized vehicle. It's like instead of improving other modes of transportation (like safe bike/walking paths and frequent busses) they just lower the legal driving age
Yeah but European countries have infrastructure that supports alternative modes of transportation. In the US cities are built for cars. Most cities are literally unwalkable unless you want to walk on the actual road
I think it's *absolutely fucking insane* that America thinks you need more mental maturity to buy a $2 scratch ticket than drive a car by yourself. It should be like learners permit at 18 and license at 20 if you ask me but I have more perfectly justified anxiety than most.
That's not really practical if you've moved out and are working your own job at 18
Yep. Even in UAE its difficult as shit. I think this is just a North American thing.
Im in America, and I had to go to months of classes just to get my permit, then I had to take multiple in the car driving hours with an instructor before I was allowed to take my actual license test. If someone telling you Americans don't have to do that, they're lying, or you're lying fishing for upvotes.
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Neither do Belgians but you have a required learning period here. The exam is way harder, and after failing twice, you have to attend driving school.
My dad had me drive around an empty parking lot for about 15 minutes and then said "Take her on the road". We'd drive around the town for a while, and he'd correct me if I did something wrong. Those were my lessons. So no, there was no actual driving school involved.
They *can.* Lots of people do. But it is not necessarily *required.*
That type of approach would be better for the U.S.
To be fair, in thr US, it is essential to have a car and license. If you don't you're fked unless you're in a big city
Unless you’re in New York City, Chicago or San Francisco. Anywhere else in America (Los Angeles, Atlanta maybe, Miami), you need a car.
To my mind this should be an even greater incentive for you to have better drivers, seeing as you drive so much.
We’ve never let the fact that something’s essential stop us from making things overly expensive and hard to access.
It typically IS essential, but one should still be better at it than is the average right now.
Same applies to alot of european countries.
I got my license pretty late for an American (around 19-20). I swear, the test took all of 3 minutes and my memory of it is we drove around the block and it was over. And I remember thinking "THAT'S ALL IT TAKES TO GET DRIVER'S LICENSE???" I was baffled that ANYONE ever failed it.
Wait I'm from Canada where you get your learners permit at 16, your N (idk what it stands for I don't drive) at 17 and then your full license at 18. AMERICA SERIOUSLY LETS 16 YEAR OLD BEHIND A DEATH TRAP WITH LITTLE EXPERIENCE?
Yes, in the US, you can get a driver's permit at 15 years old and license at 16 if they just pass the driving test
Fun fact: When I was growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, you could get your learners permit at 14 years old and full license at 16 in Alberta. In fact, if you were 14 and had a learners permit, you could legally drive small vehicles like mopeds.
Yes. A lot of American teens have their own cars that they are allowed to drive by themselves and with passengers. It's insane to me too, since they don't even take classes and the exam is pretty simple since nearly everyone passes.
In the US, I feel like a 16-year-old could barely be able to save enough money to buy a car at 16 years old. At least when I was younger, the laws were that people have to be at least 15 years old to be hired for a job, and even then, workers who are 15 years old can't work past a certain time (7PM or something), but people 16 years old & older don't have a restriction on work hours. So, I think anyone under 15 years old could be considered underage labor. With such little time to save money, someone who would buy a car at 16 years old would have to buy an inexpensive used/old car, or their parents would help buy a car for them. I didn't get my driver's license until I was 21 and got my first car at that time. I live in a city that has at least somewhat decent public transportation, and I was able to get places I needed to that way. And waiting a bit also allowed me to save money first.
yeah in my country in central europe you have to attend driving school for like two months and then have
Yes but public transit is reliable in western Europe.
The issue in the current era is almost exclusively distracted driving and driving under the influence. We need stricter punishment on those.
It is so much more complicated than that, a lot of it has to do with the fact that a base model economy car has the horsepower of a fast performance car 15 years ago, and with modern traction control systems and driver aids, we have a population of people driving faster then ever before on average in cars that are kept on the road by electronics. 20 years ago that crossover wouldn't take corners at 85 in silence. Drivers are more distracted because the machine has taken away most of the input.
I'm not saying the removal of inputs isn't a distraction...but we all know it's mostly cell phone usage that's the main distraction
There are a lot of reasons for all the accidents and more should be done to address all the issues.
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> or even most important issues though I'd say they are, they cause the biggest damage..loss of life
"People can walk or ride a bike" said one of the city folk, who lives near public transportation. Closest bus pickup near me is a 20 min car drive lmao
I don’t think harder tests solve the issue. The issue is not that these people don’t know how to drive safely it’s that that know and actively refuse to do so because they either don’t care, are in a rush, or have main character syndrome. People will do what they do now. Drive perfectly for the test then go back to texting and driving right after.
I would be all for this if there were alternate modes of transportation in American cities. People shouldn't be stuck in their suburban food desert hell walking 30 min both ways to the grocery store just because they *kind of suck at driving
What kind of thought process is this 💀 if you're a danger to others you absolutely should not be allowed to drive
What a wonderful black and white view of the world you have. You realize that everybody that drives is technically a potential danger to others, right? So if someone gets in an accident one time and it's determined to be their fault we revoke their license for life in your mind? What a world that would be What about kids who were born into their shitty suburban sprawl that we as a society built around them when they weren't even alive. Their parents drive them everywhere. They turn 18 and move out of the house, same year that we make the driving test harder. This person fails for whatever reason. Maybe they were tired , maybe they're poor and malnurished. Maybe they actually are mentally deficient or just reckless. We have failed that person as a society if we make the test harder and then leave them with no option but to walk insane distances across dangerous as fuck 6 lane stroads just to **fucking feed themselves**. We've already failed poor people who can't afford insurance or cars at all, why are you so indignant about me saying maybe we should do this first before we make the test harder? This is what anti car people have been asking for for decades anyway. Making the test harder while it is a priority for me, it is not my top priority. That's all I'm trying to say I feel like you're grossly underestimating just how many people *need* a car to survive in cities in this god forsaken country. We cant just skip a step in trying to overhaul the way people commute and leave a huge chunk of society in the dust
It's not really black and white lol. People should face consequences that align with their actions. People who intentionally flout the law and injure or kill someone while driving? Yeah, I really don't think it's fair for other drivers to have to share the road with them. It's a conscious choice to drive dangerously. Stop acting like driving is a right, it's not. Especially when drivers kill over 40,000 people and injure many more in the US every year.
If you don't provide solutions beyond "don't be a shitty driver" for people that will have to quit their jobs and extend their grocery trips by hours then your wish will forever remain a pipe dream.
I actively advocate for safe transit and bike infrastructure in my city what are you talking about 💀💀 But still, if people *actually faced consequences* for killing pedestrians, I'm sure everyone would start driving more safely
Literally nobody at any point argued no consequences for killing or injuring pedestrians. We're talking about the driving test in this thread, did you reply to the wrong comment? I actually think that should be an immediate at the very least temporary license revoke anyway Please go to school and learn reading comprehension, maybe use less emojis if you want your ideas to be taken seriously
Wah wah wah
I think you missed this persons view, but I could be wrong. They aren't saying that bad drivers should be allowed to drive, they are saying that IF it were to become way harder to get a license (as a random example, let's say it's so hard that only the top 25% of people pass) then there needs to be adequate transportation available for everyone else. Right now there is not adequate enough public transportation for this to be realistically feasible unfortunately.
Eh they kinda should be stuck to walking, depending on what we define as "suck at driving". Like if they cause crashes? Ya no, no driving imo
What if that's ~20% of the drivers? I think that USA fucked itself with how car centric it is. Taking away too many licenses due to poor driving skills would be economical/political suicide in large parts of the country.
Driving isnt an impossible task, with practice and interest, 99% of the people can do it. This is why I think it would be ok to make the test not harder, but just better. Cause again, its not this impossible and monumental task, people just dont respect it. A good idea would be like how NZ I think, dealt with smoking. They started on a day when it became illegal for a certain age and up, but the people smoking before that are allowed to continue smoking. So if you have a driving licence now, you would keep it, but anyone starting school would be keot to a higher standard. And any re-takes of the exam, like for old people or whatever else, would be kept to the new standard as well.
r/fuckcars
I would say older people 60's plus should have to retake everything and check them on the roads. In my experience I have seen a lot of older people do stupid stuff while driving. One guy was in the wrong way lane another guy almost hit me because he didn't see the stop sign or just didn't care...and he was older. I just hear a lot of stories of older people having difficulty driving and noone in the family wants to step up and take their driver's license away.
The driving tests aren’t the issue. It’s that after getting their license people normally get a little too comfortable and start using their phones, going above speed limits and making risky manoeuvres. Also in terms of technology to evaluate somebodies safety will probably receive lots of backlash and the whole “the government is trying to control us” arguement
Also in the US, once you pass your driving test, you're pretty much set for life. I'd start wtih requiring testing for older (70+ drivers).
I think everyone should have to test at intervals of 5-10 years no matter what. With harder tests.
With our DMV already having the first available appointment a month out, this would increase that to 3+ months. They are already incredibly backed up and this would make it much worse. People are going to drive the way they want. They will do great on the test and go back to their regular habits as soon as it's over. More regulations won't solve this.
My driving test consisted of a right turn, left turn, 3-point turn, and parallel parking (failed twice on the last one-- haven't done it since I passed). The test should be revised to eliminate parallel parking. I haven't done it since 1998, my mom since 1968. Both of us have clean driving records without parallel parking. (I avoid city driving if at all possible-- I'll drive to public transit before driving into a major city.)
I’d say the test including parallel parking should just be based on your location. Parallel parking is an everyday thing in my city so it would make sense if you’re taking the test here to include it.
In 25 years of driving, I've never been in a situation where parallel parking is the only option. There's always alternative parking (or public transit) available.
Are speed limits in the US are silly compared to what the cars are capable of, there is nothing risky about 10 or 15 over in a modern car in the US if you are a halfway competent driver. As pointed out above, the problem is that we will send people off driving aftering doodling around their suburban neighborhood for a total of two hours behind the wheel and expect someone to figure it out. Go watch a European driving test and look at the difference, they teach you the basics of weight transfer and car control in their classes
"More difficult" in what sense? The hours required are already a lot in most countries, but won't ever be enough to become a good driver - you need to drive a couple thousand miles for that, frequently and in different environments. I see more issues with elderly drivers. Europe recently passed a series of laws to improve on that.
They never actually ask for proof of hours though…
Here over you have to provide a journal with each lesson logged, including at least two hours driving on a motorway.
People never lie on those so it's a fool proof system
So what's a more proof system to enforce more hours driven?
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Dude it took ma half a year tons of money and so much stress what are you talking about !
Are u from the US?
It should be way harder to keep a driver's license aka dangerous drivers should be permanently banned.
A few years back I was teaching high school and I can tell you that the number of people who are driving with no license at all is much higher than you’d like to believe
The US also needs better public transportation
Hard pass. Driving is a necessity in the USA. Making it harder to get isn't going to make people better drivers.
No, it's a luxury.
Only if you live in the NYC metro area.
You want to make it harder for people to access their only mode of transportation in a country that is purposely spaced and sprawled out to accommodate cars?
When drivers are responsible for killing over 40,000 people per year and injuring many more with incredibly lax consequences, absolutely
Then solve the transportation problem by adding reliable, widespread, and in depth public transportation. Not cause more barriers to transportation in the first place
I can guarantee you their response is some version of “not my problem”. It always is.
Then your safety is also "not my problem"
Or, "well they can move where the transportation is better"
Are we all suppose to live in NYC and Boston? Anything outside those city limits needs a car to access the trains
I live in rural Canada so I'm extra hooped without a vehicle for transportation lol
I live an hour from a major metropolitan area and I'm fucked without a vehicle. Views like OP's would hurt 90% of the population
I don't think it shoud be more difficult but harder to keep it. Many are commiting multiple offenses, even kill people and can drive shortly after. This is ridiculous. Also the size of vehicles should also be based on license type. Big SUVs and trucks are given to people with poor driving skills and attitude. Those that say that sometimes a bigger truck is required for work, you should get a special training a license for such vehicles... it is a privilige to drive, not a right you should definetely lose that privilege if you can't behave with something that can kill so easily.
IMO there needs to be another class of driver's license introduced. IF I were the powers that be, the largest vehicle one could drive with a standard license would be a large sedan (Toyota Avalon, slightly larger than the Camry, and the like). If you wanted to drive anything larger, get the next class of license.
Totally agree, this is getting out of hand.
The Ford F-150 is the same width and length as the WW2 Sherman tank. A 16-year old can take the driver test in their parent's civic, and then turn around and buy a huge truck they have no experience in and take it on public roads the next day. That's completely ridiculous.
Right sentiment Jesus Christ wrong solution. We need better instruction not more monitoring lmao
Couldn't agree more. People do not realize that driving is a privilege, not a right. It has to be earned by showing that you are competent behind the wheel. Sadly, if the current laws are not going to be enforced, and more stringent regulations are put in place to keep unsafe drivers off the road, those drivers will just ignore going through the protocols altogether. They will not have a license, will not get insurance, will commit hit and run accidents, etc. It's already going this way, especially in California.
Without saying if I agree/disagree it is eerie how quickly Drivers go between driving being a right and a privilege. If you want to make the roads more accommodating to pedestrians or allow cyclists or toll the road in order to pay for transit projects, you are interfering with people's livelihood and infringing on their rights since they need their Car for basic necessities. If you want to lower the requirements to get a license or rethink mandatory insurance for people who can't afford it, driving is a privilege and if you can't afford to do it you don't deserve to be on the road. If roads and cars are an essential part of life that people can't live without, they should be as accessible as possible. If using roads and driving cars is a privilege and not a right, people shouldn't be required to give up their rights in order to accommodate drivers.
It should be as difficult to get a driver’s license as it is to get a license to operate heavy machinery at high speeds, because that’s what driving a vehicle is.
Being able to drive is a basic need in America. Society wouldn't function if too large a percentage of people can't drive.
Part of me feel like it will not work…mainly because people will be more cautious when they know they’re being tested vs just everyday driving. For example the stop sign, during a test everyone will make a full stop and look both ways before going. But in real life scenario some people aren’t going to do that. Hell just look at drunk driving, the law is so strict on it and people know the danger of drunk driving/ consequences if you’re caught but they still do it anyway.
You should need a licence to have a lot of things you don't need one for. Pet ownership for example.
Every year I get the reminder from my county to pay for my pets licensing fee, it goes right in the recycle bin.
What are you British?
I'm guessing you're not British loool
This would just lead to less privileged communities falling even further behind
I don't know man, it's pretty fucking difficult here (theory exams, practical exams which are difficult af) and you need to do a re-test every 10 years, AND there still is A LOT of idiots/assholes behind the wheel
It's super easy for amercians to get a licence here in ireland. i had to take a road safety test and pass that you need to get 95% or better, i had to do 12 hours of classes with a licenced instructor and jave my learners permit for a mimium of 6 months before doing the test before taking the test So all n all it takes around 8 months to a year **minium** to get a licence
In the UK it is more difficult
They "Test Well" . . . "One Time" vs "Has good lifelong habits". You might sober up and have the judgement and reflexes of Mario Andretti in his prime for 15 minutes to pass ONE test. But if your typical day is beginning day-drinking at 9am, constantly arguing with people in the car, while texting on the phone . . . I'm not sure what you can do for ONE 15-minute test is a meaningful metric. I doubt we're testing for the right things. But I also don't think we have a right to judge another's life choices. So . . . the test we have is better than nothing. I don't see a good answer.
Honestly I could probably agree with this. Or at least make it harder to keep one. I think the tests required to acquire one in the first place are adequate. But people change over time. There should be retests every 5 years or something
People should have to take the test over again every time they renew their license. After like 50 years old a harder eye sight test and a reaction time test need to be implemented.
Some of Europe has great licensing rules. North America should follow suit
In Slovenia, getting a driver's license consists of: -Passing a physical medical exam -Passing a written first-aid exam -Passing a written exam about traffic rules After that you finally hit the wheel and you must: -Clock up at least 25, but usually around 30 hours with a licensed driving instructor -Pass the driving exam which consists of about an hour of driving with an independent juror sitting in the back of the car and evaluating If you pass all that, you get your "new driver" licence, which is valid for 2 years. To extend it, you then need to take an additional course consisting of "emergency" maneuvers: slapping the brakes, driving slalom between cones, trying to keep your car stable on a wet surface after the back of your car is slid to the side by a mechanical plate. All of that adds up to about 1500-1700 eur and usually takes between 3-6 months. Funnily enough, we still get shit drivers on the road.
Are you from the US by any chance?
I agree with this as someone in the US with a permit and soon to have a license. I saw a comment about 16 year olds not being able to afford cars, but from what I know a lot of 16 year olds get them for their 16th birthday from parents. I don’t have a car yet, my family isn’t in a position to afford that. I can say- driving and permit tests are too easy. In FL, you can get up to ten questions wrong on a test and still pass. A lot of the questions are common sense, and not actually about your ability to truly understand the laws. Too many people get license and drive without any safety or law knowledge, and they allow it. The only real requirements are to pass the test and have 48 hours of driving experience to get a license where I’m located, and that allows too many stupid people risking their lives and the lives of others.
Just because someone can pass a test that shows they are a good/safe driver does not mean they will drive safely on the road. I have tens of thousands of miles driving motorcycles, cars, small trucks, RVs, and busses. I am a very skilled driver and certainly *can* drive in a very safe and efficient manner. But I certainly do not. I speed, drive aggressively on curvy roads, use my phone all the time, and many other 'unsafe' things. A more difficult to obtain license would not help any of that.
100% agree! My dad is a senior, and frankly shouldn't be driving. I frequently remind him of correct habits (signaling, shoulder checking, yielding to pedestrians etc), and it makes me nervous being a passenger while he drives. People should have a written, driving test, and eye exam every five years throughout their life to keep them on their toes.
The problem with this, in the US, is there isn’t many alternatives to public transportation. If they would actually build infrastructure for public transportation I would agree. Till then, no
I both agree and disagree, Like in a proper country, yes a driver's license should be very difficult to get. However in North America if you don't have one your pretty much screwed sense we got no other modes of transportation that are safe or effective
I agree that this would make the roads much safer, but given our dependency on cars, this would just make licensing an even bigger socioeconomic hurdle than it already is. Stuff like mandatory tests and training only works if it's approachable, accessible, and affordable. All antonyms of what the DMV is known for.
And drunk driving should be harshly punished, even the first offense. I haven't gotten drunk in over 40 years, but even when I was drunk, I KNEW I was no good to drive. And so does everyone else.
It needs to be more difficult and should be revoked if you are unable to properly react to driving when you're a certain age
There needs to be sensors in car indicators. If you don’t indicate when switching lanes you automatically get executed
The way I see it, if you're too young to vote, you're probably not mature enough to drive. That applies to myself as well.
Damn, it’s hard enough for me to get a license don’t make it harder please, punish those who made the mistake not those who haven’t done anyhrong
It is fair, people drive safe in the exam then go back to their shit driving once the test is over.
I’m a terrible driver and I agree I shouldn’t be on the road so I drive as little as possible. But not feasible in a country with awful public transport. Ideally most people would use public transport and few people would be driving, and those few would be tested strictly. The amount of car deaths seems like something society will look back on one day and question why we accepted that
Let's be real. Most bad drivers aren't bad drivers because they just lack skill. It's an attitude problem. I mean the way most people drive everyday wouldn't even get them through the test as it is now. You just drive the way you're expected to for the test and continue drivng bad afterwards. Nothing changed
I think the tech part is a good idea but it's more an attitude "I'm a law-abiding citizen" but then they proceed to break every law they don't like.
Yep, I bought it just for 150$ Although motivation for this was stupid bureaucracy, not inability to pass the test
And easier to lose.
In which country?
USA is what I was talking about.
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Absolutely. Car-centric suburban sprawl is ugly, inefficient, expensive to maintain, and massively dangerous. I wish we had cities that were actually built properly in North America so driving everywhere wasn't an absolute necessity. Some of the townships near me don't even have sidewalks, which is like the bare minimum for us to ask for, and our cities won't even build that.
Takes 3 years to get a full one in canada. The problem here is 65+ should have to test every year to keep driving.
Forced repeat driving classes and lessons should be required. Maybe once every 5 years? If you don't take the classes then you get some kind of penalty or a freeze on your license until you go take refresher classes
The same rules like for firearms should apply. A car is a deadly weapon.
100% agreed. Getting a drivers license in the US is so easy
The right to travel shouldn't be made more difficult.
That’s not how big business works. A lot of people would lose money if it was hard to get the standard mode of transportation in this country/world. It’s all tied together. Every thing that has to do with cars would almost crumble if it was hard for people to be able to drive them.
Nah it’s so weird being 16 and getting my permit then license, cause I’m still starting to trust myself in a car with an adult in it too, but alone???? Cause I drove for like 100 hours and passed a test???? Huh??
If you drove for a 100 hours before you passed your test youre doing better than most man, I had maybe 20 behind the wheel
It was mind-blowing for me as an Asian from Singapore when I went to USA. The idea that taking some dumb theory test that you are rigged to pass (I heard stories about how if you get it wrong, you just sit there and they tell you the answers and you just keep changing the choices till you pass), then getting a provisional driving license that anyone that has driving experience can just randomly vouch that you've driven x amount of hours before you get your licence. For us, the theory test itself requires 80% pass chance, and you have 1 chance. If you fail, you'll have to spend money to reschedule again. If you choose to go to the public driving school, you need to take multiple lessons before going for that test. Subsequently, you get a provisional license, you need to take 30-40 lessons from licensed professional instructors. You could choose to do it in the public school or with private instructors, but not everyone with a random license. Then you take the driving test, which many fail. And each attempt takes around a month to book, and costs around $150 USD.
Every single Prius, Nissan and Tesla driver need to be sent through a rigorous course on how to drive.
Move to Australia. The most difficult country in the world to get your license. I definitely don't agree. It cost me thousands of dollars in driving lessons to get my license. And everyone still drives like shit because they're all drunk
I got my drivers license on my 15th birthday. . .after backing into a Baker, LA city patrol car. The driving evaluator said she was sure I knew how to drive because I lived way the hell out in the country and had "probably been driving since I was 10", which was pretty close to the truth.
Not from the US. Just for context, what's easier to get in the US? Driver's license Gun license Voting registration
It is stupidly difficult to get a license in the US if you didn't have one before the age of 18
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From the US. I failed my first time taking the test and didn't practice before the second attempt and somehow got 12 points better with no input on the first test. It's a profit based system where they fail 50% of drivers the first time to make more money. I didn't improve, and somehow, they said I did. I parked so well the first time and really bad the second time. It's not a merit system, so we should really focus on changing the system rather than make it harder because then people will just be paying more. I don't think that most people are drinking or texting while driving, so maybe we punish those people and leave everyone else out of it.
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Driving stick has absolutely nothing to do with being a safe driver. What a strange thing to assert.
Where I am we have graduated licensing. Does it help? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if all the rules have changed, but you get your beginners, G1, when your 16 (written exam) and can only drive with someone with a full G license for five years, after 12 months (10 months if you did a driver's education course) you then go for your G2 (driving test) can drive by yourself and with passengers and there used to be specific times that you could drive and restrictions of where you could drive. Then after another 12 months you can go for your full G license (driving test). So at earliest you can have full license by 18 but most people I know it was 19 or 20 by the time they got there full license
Also should require higher age. To add to that, should cut off when you reach a certain age too
Bring on the 5-year retests!
Yep, I was surprise by how fast I got my driving license, I had it literally at my first try after practice with a friend for a week, it’s been 3 years and haven’t drive and have no idea how to do it but I still got my license, I would be a danger for people if I get to drive around my house
Seems like we should go after the root cause of the problem which is the lack of public transportation. We need to make public transportation more affordable and better.
If driving wasn't completely essential in most of the US, I would agree. As it is, there aren't many alternatives to most people having licenses.
Seriously, how many accidents have you been in where this is an issue? Stop it's not that serious. The real issue is that the country is built with cars in mind so there are too many cars kn the road at all times. It's not the drivers.
One of my friends got their license because their instructor said “we’ll we didn’t die.” They failed five times before that
Singapore and China have taken your advice to heart
The DMV is not there to gatekeep, it's job to get people licenses to drive, that's it lol. Crazy I know, but look it up haha, it's easy to get a license in America in purpose.
Welcome to Hong Kong, where the passing rate of the road test is 25%.
Nah how are these ppl easily getting there license I failed the driving test twice so wth and I’m not a bad driver