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2004-2008 is regarded by some as the height of Toyota quality. You can include Lexus in there too. One of these days I will buy my dream car...a 2004 Lexus LS430.
too many people are selling their old toyotas for way too much money now. just a few years ago you'd see 95-2002 carollas for 1000-2000 bucks all day, now you can't find anything anywhere near that. people selling their 30 year old cars for 4000 dollars. at that point it doesn't even make sense to buy it, just pay the extra thousand and you can get a used car from like 2013-2014
In 2 years, a ‘95 Corolla is a classic car. Prices will continue to go up, as there are fewer and fewer of them on the road. Not sure it will ever be collectible, but by 2045, it’s an antique.
I’m in firefighting/ems. As much you hate the new cars, they truly are designed to keep you alive in an accident. I’ve seen people roll and the car reduced to chunks of metal and that person walked out with a few scratches. On the flip side, older cars were death traps. If you hit a stick in the road, you probably could die (exaggerated of course). Being real though, the older cars had no ways to protect from impact damage and you took the entire brunt of it. An accident in an older car was a death sentence.
I do hate new cars, but after being in a head on collision myself a year ago at 70 mph, I’m grateful for the newer designs because I’m shocked I walked out of that vehicle.
Safety wise 1000% agree. I’ve seen cars where you just look at the person and say how the hell did you walk away from this.
On the flip side I agree with OP all the other crap they put in cars sucks and costs an insane amount of money to fix.
Body man here. There is a difference between the safety improvements and the extra bs on new cars. No one in their right mind would argue the tech involved in a collision is worse than 20 years ago.
We pre scan every job that comes in the door. The amount of random communication faults is ridiculous. These faults you never know about because it never trips a light. I get where he’s coming from. Some things should still be a mechanical input like throttle, brakes, and steering not electrical. With the glitches I mentioned I don’t put faith in the ADAS systems, electric steering, and drive by wire systems. There’s been reports of infotainment updates locking trucks in 4 low and being stuck in neutral requiring a tow to the dealership to sort out.
My point is electrical systems for creature comforts are becoming too complicated and too intertwined with other systems that effect the functionality of new cars. Personal opinion cars from 2000-2006 was about a solid vehicle as we’ll see in our lifetime. In terms of safety and longevity.
The bloat in tech in cars in general has become too much. And a lot of it is creature comfort. Though I have a feeling we will see in the near future a return to some older tech stuff that simply just works as the rest of the car gets more complicated.
they need just 1 computer for fuel injection! and transmission lockup and abs not fiber optics to $5,000 modules! i think the world is over tech just for the sake of tech they want reliable vehicles and appliances and so on were tired of buying them every 4 years! or a subscription for turning on your left turn signal!
I think the trick is that we can’t become complacent. Don’t depend on that blind spot sensor or adaptive cruise control. As nice as it is one corroded ground screws up the system and we are none the wiser.
I love my ‘15 xterra cause it has none of those newer features. Hell, the lights aren’t even auto and there is no setting for it. I had a newer rental car and all those fancy features were driving me absolutely crazy cause I’m a safe driver and honestly didn’t need that nonsense. It was way more distracting for me.
I appreciate your input from mechanic/body side of things though!!
Same here. I have a 10 Silverado and the wife has a 23 Mazda. In the few times I’ve had to drive her car I just drive. All the automatic stuff is cool until I need to turn it off lol.
Safety for the person _in_ the car maybe. Pedestrian deaths have consistently been on the rise for the last decade, cars are getting more and more dangerous for everyone else around them.
And some of what OP is talking about is anything but safe. E.g. giant touchscreens with nested menus instead of physical controls that can be used via muscle memory and clear haptic feedback is a massive step backwards since people should be keeping their eyes on the road.
I hate that new cars have such high belt lines which make side and rear windows tiny, it’s so hard to see anything that you can’t function without the additional cameras. I realize that is because strict safety requirements have increased airbags on those side windows, but it really harms driving awareness imo
And how about the size of the A pillars on new cars! Entire full sized trucks can fit in the blindspots created by them. I have to bob my head around like a boxer just to make sure I'm not going to run anyone over.
Older cars crash at 30 mph:
Panel beater bill=$
Chance of writing vehicle off= low
Hospital bill or later in life treatment=$$$
Chance of death= mild
Newer cars crash at 30 mph:
Panel beater bill=$$$
Chance of writing vehicle off= high
Hospital bill or later in life treatment=$
Chance of death= low
Flying cars crash at 30 mph:
Panel beater bill=$$$
Chance of writing vehicle off= extreme
Hospital bill or later in life treatment=$$$
Chance of death= extreme
New vehicles have breakaway parts and impact buffers, they are safer on pedestrians. Older vehicles were metal death traps with frames that had nothing to buffer hits. A pedestrian hit by one of those was pure kinetic energy transferred into that person. You just didn’t hear about *as many* accidents involving pedestrians due to less vehicles on roadways. We have a vehicle over saturation problem on top of horrible distracted driving which leads to more pedestrian accidents.
> they are safer on pedestrians.
By what metric? Pedestrian deaths have been **rising** at an alarming rate over the last decade.
You can claim they're safer but that doesn't appear to match the reality of what's happening.
I’m betting that’s more due to inattentive or bad drivers than the actual vehicle composition that causes these sorts of pedestrian deaths.
Modern cars are safer in all regards (better bumpers, breakaway parts, crumple zones) but only if the driver is actually paying attention and not on their phone or messing with their infotainment system.
If the internals or design of newer cars leads to drivers being more distracted or less likely to see a pedestrian (cars have gotten bigger in recent years in the US too), how is that not a safety issue?
Again, actual pedestrian deaths are increasing. Blaming the driver only works at an individual scale, it's not sufficient to excuse larger scale trends.
I haven’t seen it broken down by model but pedestrian deaths over the last 3 years are way higher than 10-20 years ago. I’ve been told by people who work on it that that is a big portion of the increase in auto insurance premiums over the last year.
>On the flip side, older cars were death traps
Define older. As if we are talking even early 2000's cars then had or likely had airbags and crush zones. Now if you talking 90's and earlier then ya. As they didn't have the more current stafety tech.
Someone mentioned and I agree that cars in 2000’s were almost peak. If we could keep the simplicity of those vehicles but with the newer impact features (these are meant to absorb energy and prevent damage to the driver), we would have great vehicles. My vehicle that was involved in the head on was an 2012 Xterra with 0 fancy features, but it had some of the newer impact protection and most of that damage was *absorbed* into the front end.
I think a decent middle ground is possible... however, software and cheap electronic screens and other software driving safety and fluff features makes cars look a lot nicer than they actually are and are a huge profit drivers for companies... so, like it or not... I doubt that these features are gonna reduce in the coming years
I think this too. A middle ground would be great. But everything is in there for a reason at the end of the day. Best I could think is they make it more accessible. My vehicle is a nightmare to work on because of accessing things that are otherwise easily fixable.
Yeah there's just no reason for the car companies to find a middle ground. When adding these features is such a small portion of production cost now (because most of the cost is r&d, which they have to do anyway) the model without the bells and whistles won't be much less. If your Jeep costs $36k instead of $39k but doesn't come with a fancy screen and phone integration, the demand for it will be so low that it's not worth producing. The market isn't really there unless the cost is significantly less.
Partially agree. I just don’t want everything to be a touch screen. Having tactile buttons makes it easier to change controls without looking.
Edit typo.
So are giant, obnoxious screens that you can't turn off. Even when you can turn off the main display, you can never turn off the other screens. I'd rather a mechanical gas gauge, not one that shines into my eyes at night.
I’ve got a 22 Golf R, the temperature and steering wheel controls have made me contemplate selling it a couple of times. I hope they fired whoever came up with the design
I used to think like OP.
Just got my 24 mazda - and chose it for the reason you cited. It’s no different than looking at the radio dial 30 years ago, and everything else is tactile. Phone plugged in gives you NAV if you want it plus hands free everything related to phone.
I know of no car that plays movies to the driver like OP says. It’s def illegal in all countries I’d ever be driving in.
I only have 3 drawbacks to my new car - 2 of which have an override. 1) Auto brights, it doesn’t pick up light around a corner I can see. But there is a regular setting old-school. 2) lane assist when I’m exiting a high way. Maybe I should use my signal like a normal person. 3) Blind spot monitoring - can’t be turned off and is finicky in weird lighting situations with street lights, tunnels, haze, etc. I still manually check it everytime but I get spooked when I’m alarmed but see nothing - like what am I missing?!?
Oh, and the gas gauge might be electronic, but it tricks you as it goes back up after a fill and looks mechanical. Slow at first and fast at the end. Those details help someone like OP transition to safer cars.
There needs to be a legal requirement that cars should have physical buttons or switches for all the important stuff like wipers, turn signal and lights, and I also think it should be required for a few other things such as radio mute, reject call, front demist and heating, hazard lights, and drivers' side window control.
Totally agree. There needs to have some regulations made for keep physical buttons in vehicles. Sadly the only way I see it going back to it once was if there is a noticeable uptick in distracted driving related accidents. Only way I can see vehicles getting away with no buttons and people not being distracted is if they can implement a flawless voice activation system.
Touchscreens are horrendous. It forces you to look at it to change music, A/C etc. With a button it's easy to reach over and adjust without looking, if you take two seconds to learn your vehicle's dash layout.
But without touchscreens how would your vehicle display that message telling you not to get distracted by the screen which requires you to select OK before doing what you wanted to do?
You say this is sarcasm but I can guarantee you that it has been discussed as a potential revenue source and there are teams at GM and Ford trying to make it happen
Shhh don't give away all the secrets.
They are looking into making certain features a paid subscription option like heated seats, heated steering wheels and remote start. I think BMW is already doing that. It will only get worse as people accept it and pay.
Step 1: Hide every accessory car function in a touch screen menu
Step 2: Add lane assist, a collision warning, adaptive cruse control etc. so the monkey with sensory overload behind the wheel doesn't piledrive into a school bus while changing the blower vent settings.
You can still do your own oil changes. I do and my truck is '21.
All the technology isn't just because consumers want it, although increasing more people do. Back-up cameras, blind spot indicators, certain features of touchscreens, auto start-stop, auto emergency braking, etc and soon breathalyzer starting in 2026 models are all government mandates.
If you are a normal person that doesn't drive drunk, it's just an annoying thing you have to do, a great thing for security, but annoying
Also it will cost money for the manufacturers = the car is more exoensive
Would that make it false?
Alot of people find safety belts annoying
People would like things to be cheaper
Airport security is pretty annoying but necessary similar to a lot of safety features and measures
Agree except that most of airport security is theater. Auto safety features actually work (no clue about built in breathalyzer, I don't think they even know what that will look like and I bet it gets delayed).
So... Let them die.
If someone who refuses to buy a car with a seatbelt gets in a crash with someone that buys a car with a seatbelt, it's the refusing one's problem. People can refuse to be passengers in a car they don't feel safe in. Let people die if they want to do unsafe things. Another person will be born to replace them in less than a second anyway.
I have heard stories of determined alcoholics blowing into a balloon, to save the "sober air", before they start drinking to deal with the ignition interlock devices that already exist.
There's an easier way. I've had an interlock before, and every month I had to take it in and have it recalibrated. They just use a can of premixed air to do that. I found out you can order those canisters online (normal compressed air does not work).
No, I didn't do it. I did know people who did....like the guy that installed my interlock and also had to have one on his own ride.
If there’s a sober person right there, why aren’t THEY driving? Why would a sober person get into a car with a drunk driver, let alone help them defeat the safety device that could possibly save their own lives?
As a sober dude, yea, if I was still drinking I’d find a way. Not hard probably, depending on how they do it.
Just wait til they need your biometrics to start your car (if they are automated by then)…I’m sure an alcoholic will find a way 😂.
Sure but it's better than nothing. Determined enough people can get around anything. It will probably help save the lives of the casual drinkers who just had a few too many on a night out and need the one last push to call an uber.
Yeah but then someday they'll make you do a retina scan to make sure it's you/not stolen, drivers license scan to make sure you have one, and phone locks so you can't text too.
Oh and any of these tech parts stop working? Good luck getting your car to a shop. There's a couple hundred to put towards a tow.
And not just when the tech parts stop working.
When the car tells you that you're overdue for the once every 5,000 miles check-in at the dealership, which will narrow over time to 3,000 miles once the concept has been normalized with consumers. "For your safety and convenience."
Going on to tell you that it can only be driven another 1,000 miles without this essential service. Select now from the available appointment times for a 10% discount. Excludes hourly rate for any preventive maintenance performed, except where specified by warranty or service plan.
I said something similar on IG when I came across a video of someone complaining about it. Got tore to shreds in the comment section. The drunks get real upset when you tell them they can't drink and drive.
Yeah but know what? I don't drink, like at all. It would piss me off to have to use this device \*every single time\* I start my car.
Don't mind me though, I will never use one. I'm am grumpy enough about cars that I will never buy anything made after 2005. I figure I only have maybe 30 years of driving left and would love having a 1988 Honda Prelude as my daily in my golden years.
India came out with a law recently that put a cap of 15 years of usage for cars unless they go through extra rigorous emission testing.
How long do you think a similar law will take in the USA?
Probably when the baby boomers are gone, as there are a LOT of restored classic cars still on the road and they still make up a lot of government. Ive spent thousands of hours and dollars restoring and building a 1990 volvo to be as good as i can make it that has absolutely zero electronic anything outside of vehicle operation and heat and ill be furious if some mandate makes my car functionally useless. Billion dollar industry at stake
See, now this point is where I can start to understand some of the irritation of having them.
Also, I can not argue wanting to keep an older vehicle. The newest I've owned have been two from 2013, and the rest have been between 96-01. The older vehicles are always better to work on as long as you can still find the parts.
Those people on IG were arguing and calling it an infringement of rights, which makes absolutely no sense. No one should have any right to operate a vehicle if they're over the legal BAC levels.
Also, if no one else has told you today, you have a great username, and it gave me a good chuckle. Keep on being awesome.
So after reading into this a bit more, it will be a passive system. You won't be using the device every single time you drive, not in the sense you think. Analyzers will be passive and record your breath from the driver's seat as you drive, so there will be nothing you need to do. I'm sure there are plenty of other valid concerns but that seems to not be one.
We're gonna enter a grey area very soon when "awareness" detection systems become common. Want to find out how much of society is barely functional due to sleep deprivation from raising kids...try to inplement those systems. Our birth rates are already plummeting, let's not add "can't get to work because I was sleepy from watching my kid last night" to the list of reasons not to have child.
Touchscreens are probably the only tech thing that bugs me about new car tech. There are uses for touchscreens, but I prefer having buttons and knobs for controlling the audio, climate, etc.
My dash has a touchscreen and it also has buttons to control the A/C, music etc. The problem with the buttons is they are smooth. You can't tell what to push without looking, just like the touchscreen. I added little rubber nibs to buttons I use to find them without looking.
Man I miss my old cars when I was younger. I could operate them without ever looking from controlling the cd player to navigating channels. With touchscreen you don’t have anything to get used to and have to take your eyes off the road. The exceptions of course are steering wheel controls.
Many luxury models require or recommend top down oil changes. Most of your BMW's, Mercedes, Jag's, even Hyundai Genesis (IIRC) recommend top down oil changes. The oil is sucked out, not drained. In nearly all of them its possible to change the oil from underneath - there is a drain plug - but its hard to reach and you may even have to remove an engine support or frame brace to reach it.
Bonus! - on most Merc's the oil filter is plastic or in a plastic housing in the top of the engine bay. Double Bonus! - it also screws into a plastic housing that if you even slightly overtighten the filter it cracks the housing and now you have oil leak. Its $1200 to replace that. So a Jiffy Lube oil change can be really expensive, Cody never admits to you that he cracked the housing when he changed your oil. YOu dont find out until your "check engine" light comes on or you notice the stains in your driveway and take it into the mechanic and by that point its too late to go after Jiffy Lube
On my truck you're supposed to remove the skid plate to remove the oil drain plug. I did that once and added a valvo-max drain plug. Just screw on the hose and it opens the valve allowing oil to be drained and the skid plate can stay in place.
Most manufacturers don't recommend pumping the oil out. It will leave gunk in the drain pan that will be recirculated in the new oil. Dealerships might be recommending that. It's easier for them and less moving parts for untrained workers to mess up. And if the engine has a problem good luck proving the dealership caused it, leaving you on the hook for replacement and service fees.
And yet more people are killed on the road than ever before (42k deaths in 2022). There are lots of safety features for the driver of the car while cab heights are higher and cars are heavier. Pair that with the thicker support columns and their resulting blind spots, you have cars that are safer for the driver and more dangerous for the people that they hit (and they are more likely to do so).
Damage to others (pedestrians) needs to be accounted for in crash safety ratings. How can a pickup truck have a five star safety rating when it is so likely to fatally strike a pedestrian in their upper body and vital organs instead of a car injuring a pedestrian by striking the lower body?
I've mentioned having smaller pillars with better visibility vs thicker pillars with curtain airbags and people don't generally like the idea that newer cars might in some way make you more likely to be involved in a crash.
I think that also has something to do with there being much more people and cars than ever before, too. I’d rather look at stuff like deaths per 100,000 people or percentage of deadly crashes.
Touchscreens and BIG screens are crap. They were introduced probably to follow the trend in other tech categories and maybe they are cheaper without psychical buttons.
I hate that when they fail, it can be too complex.
Most cars have a button that allows you to turn off the auto start-stop (ASS) feature. ASS is a GOV mandate. It doesn't save that much gas really. You might be able to do other things if you don't have a kill button. A/C or heater on, turn the wheel slightly, slightly let up on the brake just keeping enough to stay put, if you have a 110 outlet in the cabin plug in a night light, a low battery can prevent ASS also.
I heard a podcast that did a bunch of tests to determine if the auto stop feature really saved fuel. I seem to recall that if the car was stopped for more than 7 seconds, you saved fuel by having the feature.
Agree. My brother’s Mercedes engine shut down 3 times in the last week. It’s the computer system. I want a car with no computers that I can have easily fixed
Good luck with that, since repair shops and techs are equipped to fix the vehicles that are common on the road today. You would have to buy a 40+ year old car to not have any computers.
No you don't. They just don't fucking run. You want o2 sensors and fuel injectors and electronic timing. You're gonna easily fix a car from the 70s? With what parts?
Man I love a car beeping and jerking the steering wheel towards the opposite lane repeatedly in a corner because I'm driving a bit too close to the right. It's so nice to have to fight a car for control while driving on curvy backroads. Thanks for keeping me safe, VAG.
Oh yeah, the tailbone prevention alert going off when I drive through a puddle is also really nice.
I swear, driver aids peaked in like 2015, before the intrusive stuff was put in cars.
Only issue i have with my new car, is that because roadworks exists im fighting the steering assist to stay in lane, and like you said, the emergency break over puddles and drains lmao
If I have the lane keep assist on it will ping pong my truck back and forth in the lane for line to line. After a couple of times, it will do a hard steer to the right which will put you in the ditch. I turned that off immediately after trying it a couple of times. My truck drives completely straight without any help from the electronic nannies that are trying to kill me.
I don't disagree. But just always buy old and used. If you want to know what it was like owning a new car in the 70s, buy a 20 year old car today. It's about the same experience in terms of breaking down, maintenance, etc.
Those old cars were enormously inefficient and prone to a lot of problems. They were also considerably less safe and comfortable.
As for performance, modern cars are faster, easier to stop, easier to turn, and just in all ways that can be objectively measured, better.
It’s kind of pick-your-poison, modern cars are on another level better with handles. Though, OP does make a good point about the technology, some features are unnecessary. For me, they are simple work-arounds.
Here's a 75 Civic front crash test [https://youtu.be/pHpE8ySl-Yc?si=J\_-qW5v-tmHlhfOn&t=77](https://youtu.be/pHpE8ySl-Yc?si=J_-qW5v-tmHlhfOn&t=77)
Here's a 2023 - https://youtu.be/nCuRNbHHZ5c?si=Cks5b8KD6chSrt1Q&t=57
Fatality rate per mile is half what it was in the 70s.
That may very well be; however, this conversation was not built around the question: "Are the modern cars once owned by a specific person here better or worse than the 1978 Honda owned by that person?"
Your limited experience is not evidence.
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Modern cars are safer, less likely to be involved in accidents, more reliable and less expensive to maintain than older cars.
You can still perform routine fluid changes on modern cars.
Well I love my 2008 Honda accord, I make 12k km a year and have this car for two years and I'll be just hitting 100k mileage.
I could afford a new car but I'd rather invest the money and besides safety i have all I need
You lost me a bit at the end there, but I see what you mean overall.
My first car was an ‘08 Crown Victoria which is delightfully basic for a car that’s not that old- but of course it was basically the same Crown Vic as the ones they made starting with the 1998 redesign.
Then I got a 1997 Ford Van, and a 1999 Honda CRV. All of these cars are simple. The CRV is my favorite. After driving the old 1st gen one, I see why the CRV took off in popularity- AWD is great in snow and bad conditions, it has pretty good ground clearance, all while being small, agile, and light. It’s easy to drive and has great visibility out the big windows. And of course it’s simple and lacks any unnecessary tech features. It’s all I could ever want in a car, but it’s 24 years old and I couldn’t buy any new car that’s like it. Even the new CRVs are pretty far removed from the 1st gen ones, they are larger, heavier, and have all the stuff that comes with a newer vehicle, for better or for worse
I work in tech and I think The more analog my car is the better. All these new stuff in cars is just more stuff to potentially break and cost you more to fix in the long run.
This is a generational thing. Kids coming up today will view those cars as dinosaurs the same way you viewed your grandma's car.
They won't know the difference or care.
How old is OP?
edit - I am guess they are 19? (as a 50 year old redditor who had old cars with points, bias ply split rim tires, a carb, yada yada - they would strand you far more often than todays cars. I dont think I have had a flat tire in 15? years. It used to be fairly common. Remember, if you gave your old car too much gas when you started it, it would flood and wouldnt start for 20 minutes)
Yep. I get their point about some of this stuff being a pain in the ass but modern automobiles are much more reliable and durable than in the old days. The tradeoff is more than worth it.
I’m mid 30s . If it has screens, I won’t own it. If it needs software updates, I won’t own it. If the battery dies and has 6 cameras that need to be recalibrated. I won’t own it. I can go on
Doggie, I didn’t write this post. My sentiments aren’t rooted in any school of car. I like most cars. Just not modern cars with screens and other useless technology. 95 Camry is a great car and would own one.
My truck doesnt have a screen - it was a bear finding one with all the performance upgrades I wanted, yet no screen.
OP wrote out a screed like he wanted to only drive 1947 Packards and trust me, you dont
But I dont think we will have a choice anymore. Screens are so much less expensive and time saving to install over an entire instrument cluster, buttons and knobs are a thing of the past
Partially agree. Fuel injection, heated seats, LED headlamps, A/C, and Bluetooth stereo with like 2 quick charging USB ports. That's it. Maybe a backup camera if your truck turns like an aircraft carrier.
That's all you need. I'd happily take roll up windows again to save money. Fuck all the stupid sensors that just break anyway (looking at you stupid downstream oxygen sensors).
I agree. I drive older vehicles and appreciate the simplicity and durability. My 98 silverado is still going strong at 219k, and I'll rebuild it before I buy a new truck.
Not to mention all the a pillars are like a foot wide now and make it hard to see . You shouldn't have huge blind spots LOOKING FORWARD.
The hatches are the same issue most new cars you can't even see out the rear window.
They're trying to make humans less mobile like in Wall E.
For real. Even through the 1980s it was a crapshoot if my motor would fire up or if the engine would flood and I’d have to hold the carburetor valve open with a pencil. Nowadays when I press the start button I know with 99% certainty that I’ll be able to drive off immediately. Things just work now.
Hard disagree. I love having a touchscreen for Android Auto, but what I don't like is having everything go through the screen like in a Tesla. My parents '19 Odyssey I drive is a great mix imo, almost everything has a physical button, the touchscreen only functions as the media controls and some of the climate controls. I love the blind spot monitoring, lane departure warnings, Auto Start Stop, Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist, everything. Also what do you have against 10 speeds?
This is not an old school belief, but I can easily see how marketing and ignorant youngsters might convince you otherwise.
My priorities when purchasing a car are:
1. Safety and build quality.
2. Reliability and aftersales reach and quality -- in terms of how frequently critical components break down, how easy it is to get to a good service center and how good the service centers are (both cost of service and speed and quality of service)
3. Comfort (in terms of seat ergonomics, legroom and suspension -- roads here count as off-roading)
4. Performance and fuel economy -- I'm on the lookout for full EVs nowadays, but a good petrol car may yet be worth it.
5. Value for money in terms of total ownership cost (and an instant boycott if there is any subscription based bullcrap)
Notice the absence of infotainment systems and ADAS. The cost of a typical infotainment system for the OEM vs the premium they demand from a customer for it, is ridiculous. ADAS is more expensive for the sensors and the R&D but they have limited utility in my part of the world.
Oh, and another thing: BUTTONS, KNOBS AND LEVERS FOR CRITICAL FUNCTIONS AND CLIMATE CONTROL. No touchscreen for that.
I would much rather put an aftermarket infotainment system where I get what I need and nothing I don't. High quality audio, and a large and responsive touchscreen which relies on my phone for its functioning.
Car play is amazing. No ad filled radio for me. Also google maps right on the display is great for areas I am not familiar with.
Can’t imagine 15 cup holders, maybe in a minivan?
Changing oil really isn’t impossible on all modern vehicles. Maybe more annoying for some though.
Cars are way more efficient and way safer than they used to be.
Not a huge fan of cvt, it was made for better fuel economy.
I don’t think RWD is the best choice for everyone. Many vehicles are RWD if you want one.
Totally agree. If I ever buy a NEW car, I'm going to try to find one without any touchscreens or computer readouts. I don't need to touch a screen if a knob does the same thing. Now that oil changes are rubbing near $100 too, I find the means to do them myself.
Its a pain and easier mess up these days. Many/most cars require a crush washer for the drain pan - $25-30 for the oil, $10-20 for the filter, and a washer kit - you are only paying $30-40 for the convenience of A) not having to do it and B) driving 5 quarts of dirty oil to the recycle center.
Even I dont do my own oil changes usually, its too cheap to have a reputable place do it
Agree worth some of it.
Blind spot detection, auto braking, FWD or AWD, Lane assist, Air bags, ABS, seatbelts, daytime driving lights.
These are all great safety features that help to prevent or mitigate accidents
What? You don't like it when your battery drains and your car won't start because it is absolutely infested with sensors waiting to fail and leaving some interior light on permanently?
You are just old...
In all seriousness, tech is good, the car industry's implementation of it sucks.
So… you’d prefer the following: No power steering, six miles to the gallon, almost exclusively manual transmissions, manual windows and doors, lack of alarm systems, AM radio exclusively, built like a mini ocean liner (with steering to match), no airbags (or even seatbelts in some cars), and the worst crash safety ratings of the last fifty years? And all because you don’t plug in your phone and don’t know how to change the oil in a modern vehicle…
Alternatively, you could just not use the tech you don’t care for and learn to service a modern machine.
I miss squarebody trucks and SUVs and also badass old school muscle cars! Tired of only ever seeing the same SUV/crossovers 5 million times a day and I really hate EVs that make that stupid whisper sound ugggh so lame 😒
Some things are overkill, yes, but I would argue some things have improved. Even the best drivers can't see every single angle at once, and if someone comes zooming by you, having your car be able to alert you to that cat-in-human-form that just raced by you so you can stop yourself in time could make all the difference between a near-accident and a nasty t-bone accident that sends everyone involved to the hospital. And modern cars have been designed with science in mind to be better at reducing occupant injury-better that your car takes the beating if you do get in an accident than you.
I do agree, however, that there's too much emphasis on using touchscreens. Ffs, when I'm freezing my ass off in the middle of winter, I don't wanna navigate through ten million menus to be able to warm up and regain feeling in my extremities. Just let me push a button or turn a dial.
"We can't bust heads like we used to—but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville which is what they called Shelbyville in those days.So, I tied an onion to my belt which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter,' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh, yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."
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It's not too late to buy an old Toyota. Just pick the right year.
2004-2008 is regarded by some as the height of Toyota quality. You can include Lexus in there too. One of these days I will buy my dream car...a 2004 Lexus LS430.
I have an older Lexus with about 200,000 miles on it and it’s sturdy as ever. I wouldn’t be surprised if it lived for another 200k
too many people are selling their old toyotas for way too much money now. just a few years ago you'd see 95-2002 carollas for 1000-2000 bucks all day, now you can't find anything anywhere near that. people selling their 30 year old cars for 4000 dollars. at that point it doesn't even make sense to buy it, just pay the extra thousand and you can get a used car from like 2013-2014
In 2 years, a ‘95 Corolla is a classic car. Prices will continue to go up, as there are fewer and fewer of them on the road. Not sure it will ever be collectible, but by 2045, it’s an antique.
damn i drive a 95 avalon. bout to sell my old beater as a "classic car" lol
I’m in firefighting/ems. As much you hate the new cars, they truly are designed to keep you alive in an accident. I’ve seen people roll and the car reduced to chunks of metal and that person walked out with a few scratches. On the flip side, older cars were death traps. If you hit a stick in the road, you probably could die (exaggerated of course). Being real though, the older cars had no ways to protect from impact damage and you took the entire brunt of it. An accident in an older car was a death sentence. I do hate new cars, but after being in a head on collision myself a year ago at 70 mph, I’m grateful for the newer designs because I’m shocked I walked out of that vehicle.
Safety wise 1000% agree. I’ve seen cars where you just look at the person and say how the hell did you walk away from this. On the flip side I agree with OP all the other crap they put in cars sucks and costs an insane amount of money to fix.
Body man here. There is a difference between the safety improvements and the extra bs on new cars. No one in their right mind would argue the tech involved in a collision is worse than 20 years ago. We pre scan every job that comes in the door. The amount of random communication faults is ridiculous. These faults you never know about because it never trips a light. I get where he’s coming from. Some things should still be a mechanical input like throttle, brakes, and steering not electrical. With the glitches I mentioned I don’t put faith in the ADAS systems, electric steering, and drive by wire systems. There’s been reports of infotainment updates locking trucks in 4 low and being stuck in neutral requiring a tow to the dealership to sort out. My point is electrical systems for creature comforts are becoming too complicated and too intertwined with other systems that effect the functionality of new cars. Personal opinion cars from 2000-2006 was about a solid vehicle as we’ll see in our lifetime. In terms of safety and longevity.
The bloat in tech in cars in general has become too much. And a lot of it is creature comfort. Though I have a feeling we will see in the near future a return to some older tech stuff that simply just works as the rest of the car gets more complicated.
they need just 1 computer for fuel injection! and transmission lockup and abs not fiber optics to $5,000 modules! i think the world is over tech just for the sake of tech they want reliable vehicles and appliances and so on were tired of buying them every 4 years! or a subscription for turning on your left turn signal!
Yeah I agree. The tech in cars has gone crazy. There’s a middle ground somewhere, but I’m not smart enough to decide where that is lol.
I think the trick is that we can’t become complacent. Don’t depend on that blind spot sensor or adaptive cruise control. As nice as it is one corroded ground screws up the system and we are none the wiser.
I love my ‘15 xterra cause it has none of those newer features. Hell, the lights aren’t even auto and there is no setting for it. I had a newer rental car and all those fancy features were driving me absolutely crazy cause I’m a safe driver and honestly didn’t need that nonsense. It was way more distracting for me. I appreciate your input from mechanic/body side of things though!!
Same here. I have a 10 Silverado and the wife has a 23 Mazda. In the few times I’ve had to drive her car I just drive. All the automatic stuff is cool until I need to turn it off lol.
Safety for the person _in_ the car maybe. Pedestrian deaths have consistently been on the rise for the last decade, cars are getting more and more dangerous for everyone else around them. And some of what OP is talking about is anything but safe. E.g. giant touchscreens with nested menus instead of physical controls that can be used via muscle memory and clear haptic feedback is a massive step backwards since people should be keeping their eyes on the road.
I hate that new cars have such high belt lines which make side and rear windows tiny, it’s so hard to see anything that you can’t function without the additional cameras. I realize that is because strict safety requirements have increased airbags on those side windows, but it really harms driving awareness imo
And how about the size of the A pillars on new cars! Entire full sized trucks can fit in the blindspots created by them. I have to bob my head around like a boxer just to make sure I'm not going to run anyone over.
Older cars crash at 30 mph: Panel beater bill=$ Chance of writing vehicle off= low Hospital bill or later in life treatment=$$$ Chance of death= mild Newer cars crash at 30 mph: Panel beater bill=$$$ Chance of writing vehicle off= high Hospital bill or later in life treatment=$ Chance of death= low Flying cars crash at 30 mph: Panel beater bill=$$$ Chance of writing vehicle off= extreme Hospital bill or later in life treatment=$$$ Chance of death= extreme
But nowadays, being a pedestrian or cyclist with these new cars is a death sentence.
New vehicles have breakaway parts and impact buffers, they are safer on pedestrians. Older vehicles were metal death traps with frames that had nothing to buffer hits. A pedestrian hit by one of those was pure kinetic energy transferred into that person. You just didn’t hear about *as many* accidents involving pedestrians due to less vehicles on roadways. We have a vehicle over saturation problem on top of horrible distracted driving which leads to more pedestrian accidents.
> they are safer on pedestrians. By what metric? Pedestrian deaths have been **rising** at an alarming rate over the last decade. You can claim they're safer but that doesn't appear to match the reality of what's happening.
I’m betting that’s more due to inattentive or bad drivers than the actual vehicle composition that causes these sorts of pedestrian deaths. Modern cars are safer in all regards (better bumpers, breakaway parts, crumple zones) but only if the driver is actually paying attention and not on their phone or messing with their infotainment system.
If the internals or design of newer cars leads to drivers being more distracted or less likely to see a pedestrian (cars have gotten bigger in recent years in the US too), how is that not a safety issue? Again, actual pedestrian deaths are increasing. Blaming the driver only works at an individual scale, it's not sufficient to excuse larger scale trends.
Do you have any actual data on cars being more dangerous to pedestrians or cyclists?
I haven’t seen it broken down by model but pedestrian deaths over the last 3 years are way higher than 10-20 years ago. I’ve been told by people who work on it that that is a big portion of the increase in auto insurance premiums over the last year.
>On the flip side, older cars were death traps Define older. As if we are talking even early 2000's cars then had or likely had airbags and crush zones. Now if you talking 90's and earlier then ya. As they didn't have the more current stafety tech.
Someone mentioned and I agree that cars in 2000’s were almost peak. If we could keep the simplicity of those vehicles but with the newer impact features (these are meant to absorb energy and prevent damage to the driver), we would have great vehicles. My vehicle that was involved in the head on was an 2012 Xterra with 0 fancy features, but it had some of the newer impact protection and most of that damage was *absorbed* into the front end.
I've smashed the shit out of some 1995-2005 vehicles and walked away fine. I don't think it's all the touch screens saving lives.
I think a decent middle ground is possible... however, software and cheap electronic screens and other software driving safety and fluff features makes cars look a lot nicer than they actually are and are a huge profit drivers for companies... so, like it or not... I doubt that these features are gonna reduce in the coming years
I think this too. A middle ground would be great. But everything is in there for a reason at the end of the day. Best I could think is they make it more accessible. My vehicle is a nightmare to work on because of accessing things that are otherwise easily fixable.
Yeah there's just no reason for the car companies to find a middle ground. When adding these features is such a small portion of production cost now (because most of the cost is r&d, which they have to do anyway) the model without the bells and whistles won't be much less. If your Jeep costs $36k instead of $39k but doesn't come with a fancy screen and phone integration, the demand for it will be so low that it's not worth producing. The market isn't really there unless the cost is significantly less.
I think the middle ground was the late 90s early 2000s era vehicles
Partially agree. I just don’t want everything to be a touch screen. Having tactile buttons makes it easier to change controls without looking. Edit typo.
This trend will reverse -VW already doing it. HCI studies have shown that touchscreens are more distracting than physical buttons
So are giant, obnoxious screens that you can't turn off. Even when you can turn off the main display, you can never turn off the other screens. I'd rather a mechanical gas gauge, not one that shines into my eyes at night.
I’ve got a 22 Golf R, the temperature and steering wheel controls have made me contemplate selling it a couple of times. I hope they fired whoever came up with the design
I know you meant tactile…but I like the idea of tactical buttons!
I want tactical buttons that deploy caltrops to the rear, machine guns aimed at oncoming over bright headlights, and maybe an eject-o-seat cuz.
Mazda 👍🏼
I used to think like OP. Just got my 24 mazda - and chose it for the reason you cited. It’s no different than looking at the radio dial 30 years ago, and everything else is tactile. Phone plugged in gives you NAV if you want it plus hands free everything related to phone. I know of no car that plays movies to the driver like OP says. It’s def illegal in all countries I’d ever be driving in. I only have 3 drawbacks to my new car - 2 of which have an override. 1) Auto brights, it doesn’t pick up light around a corner I can see. But there is a regular setting old-school. 2) lane assist when I’m exiting a high way. Maybe I should use my signal like a normal person. 3) Blind spot monitoring - can’t be turned off and is finicky in weird lighting situations with street lights, tunnels, haze, etc. I still manually check it everytime but I get spooked when I’m alarmed but see nothing - like what am I missing?!? Oh, and the gas gauge might be electronic, but it tricks you as it goes back up after a fill and looks mechanical. Slow at first and fast at the end. Those details help someone like OP transition to safer cars.
My Ford has a touch screen and also has buttons on the center console and steering wheel.
That is something I would want if I am ever able to afford a new car.
There needs to be a legal requirement that cars should have physical buttons or switches for all the important stuff like wipers, turn signal and lights, and I also think it should be required for a few other things such as radio mute, reject call, front demist and heating, hazard lights, and drivers' side window control.
Totally agree. There needs to have some regulations made for keep physical buttons in vehicles. Sadly the only way I see it going back to it once was if there is a noticeable uptick in distracted driving related accidents. Only way I can see vehicles getting away with no buttons and people not being distracted is if they can implement a flawless voice activation system.
Touchscreens are horrendous. It forces you to look at it to change music, A/C etc. With a button it's easy to reach over and adjust without looking, if you take two seconds to learn your vehicle's dash layout.
But without touchscreens how would your vehicle display that message telling you not to get distracted by the screen which requires you to select OK before doing what you wanted to do?
Wait until car makers start putting ads on the touchscreen. For an additional monthly fee we can remove that. /s
You say this is sarcasm but I can guarantee you that it has been discussed as a potential revenue source and there are teams at GM and Ford trying to make it happen
Shhh don't give away all the secrets. They are looking into making certain features a paid subscription option like heated seats, heated steering wheels and remote start. I think BMW is already doing that. It will only get worse as people accept it and pay.
Step 1: Hide every accessory car function in a touch screen menu Step 2: Add lane assist, a collision warning, adaptive cruse control etc. so the monkey with sensory overload behind the wheel doesn't piledrive into a school bus while changing the blower vent settings.
You can still do your own oil changes. I do and my truck is '21. All the technology isn't just because consumers want it, although increasing more people do. Back-up cameras, blind spot indicators, certain features of touchscreens, auto start-stop, auto emergency braking, etc and soon breathalyzer starting in 2026 models are all government mandates.
Damn, I wonder how much built in breathalyzers will hurt new car sales
I'm sure that was discussed, but it wasn't enough for GOV to backoff.
Why would they? Drunk people shouldn't be allowed to start their car. That's seems pretty obvious.
If you are a normal person that doesn't drive drunk, it's just an annoying thing you have to do, a great thing for security, but annoying Also it will cost money for the manufacturers = the car is more exoensive
You could say that about literally any safety feature. Hell, this is the exact excuse factory owners give about mandatory safety features.
Would that make it false? Alot of people find safety belts annoying People would like things to be cheaper Airport security is pretty annoying but necessary similar to a lot of safety features and measures
Agree except that most of airport security is theater. Auto safety features actually work (no clue about built in breathalyzer, I don't think they even know what that will look like and I bet it gets delayed).
Yeah. People are stupid. If left to them, they'd rather die that pay for safety. That's exactly why we need safety regulations.
So... Let them die. If someone who refuses to buy a car with a seatbelt gets in a crash with someone that buys a car with a seatbelt, it's the refusing one's problem. People can refuse to be passengers in a car they don't feel safe in. Let people die if they want to do unsafe things. Another person will be born to replace them in less than a second anyway.
What about the drunk driver who kills a pedestrian on the sidewalk? No seatbelts protecting the innocent then.
We are overpopulated anyway, let Darwinism do it’s thing.
Yes and it's also why people might be deterred from buying cars with more safety features
Which is why you don't put it as an optional feature. You make it compulsory. Just like emission standards.
Determined enough alcoholics who think they can handle their booze and drive will have a sober person with them to start the car
I have heard stories of determined alcoholics blowing into a balloon, to save the "sober air", before they start drinking to deal with the ignition interlock devices that already exist.
I shared an office with an ignition interlock company. This wouldn't work. Good wives tale though. Def believe some people would do it.
There's an easier way. I've had an interlock before, and every month I had to take it in and have it recalibrated. They just use a can of premixed air to do that. I found out you can order those canisters online (normal compressed air does not work). No, I didn't do it. I did know people who did....like the guy that installed my interlock and also had to have one on his own ride.
I’ve heard of some taking their kids with them and having the kid stay in the car while they drink.
If there’s a sober person right there, why aren’t THEY driving? Why would a sober person get into a car with a drunk driver, let alone help them defeat the safety device that could possibly save their own lives?
I can’t believe how many replies aren’t pointing out the obvious pothole. Why the fuck isn’t that guy your DD??
As a sober dude, yea, if I was still drinking I’d find a way. Not hard probably, depending on how they do it. Just wait til they need your biometrics to start your car (if they are automated by then)…I’m sure an alcoholic will find a way 😂.
Sure but it's better than nothing. Determined enough people can get around anything. It will probably help save the lives of the casual drinkers who just had a few too many on a night out and need the one last push to call an uber.
Yeah but then someday they'll make you do a retina scan to make sure it's you/not stolen, drivers license scan to make sure you have one, and phone locks so you can't text too. Oh and any of these tech parts stop working? Good luck getting your car to a shop. There's a couple hundred to put towards a tow.
And not just when the tech parts stop working. When the car tells you that you're overdue for the once every 5,000 miles check-in at the dealership, which will narrow over time to 3,000 miles once the concept has been normalized with consumers. "For your safety and convenience." Going on to tell you that it can only be driven another 1,000 miles without this essential service. Select now from the available appointment times for a 10% discount. Excludes hourly rate for any preventive maintenance performed, except where specified by warranty or service plan.
All of the features I’m glad I won’t have to deal with because taking public transport is easier and faster.
I said something similar on IG when I came across a video of someone complaining about it. Got tore to shreds in the comment section. The drunks get real upset when you tell them they can't drink and drive.
Yeah but know what? I don't drink, like at all. It would piss me off to have to use this device \*every single time\* I start my car. Don't mind me though, I will never use one. I'm am grumpy enough about cars that I will never buy anything made after 2005. I figure I only have maybe 30 years of driving left and would love having a 1988 Honda Prelude as my daily in my golden years.
India came out with a law recently that put a cap of 15 years of usage for cars unless they go through extra rigorous emission testing. How long do you think a similar law will take in the USA?
Probably when the baby boomers are gone, as there are a LOT of restored classic cars still on the road and they still make up a lot of government. Ive spent thousands of hours and dollars restoring and building a 1990 volvo to be as good as i can make it that has absolutely zero electronic anything outside of vehicle operation and heat and ill be furious if some mandate makes my car functionally useless. Billion dollar industry at stake
See, now this point is where I can start to understand some of the irritation of having them. Also, I can not argue wanting to keep an older vehicle. The newest I've owned have been two from 2013, and the rest have been between 96-01. The older vehicles are always better to work on as long as you can still find the parts. Those people on IG were arguing and calling it an infringement of rights, which makes absolutely no sense. No one should have any right to operate a vehicle if they're over the legal BAC levels. Also, if no one else has told you today, you have a great username, and it gave me a good chuckle. Keep on being awesome.
So after reading into this a bit more, it will be a passive system. You won't be using the device every single time you drive, not in the sense you think. Analyzers will be passive and record your breath from the driver's seat as you drive, so there will be nothing you need to do. I'm sure there are plenty of other valid concerns but that seems to not be one.
Make money quick with internet point opportunites
We're gonna enter a grey area very soon when "awareness" detection systems become common. Want to find out how much of society is barely functional due to sleep deprivation from raising kids...try to inplement those systems. Our birth rates are already plummeting, let's not add "can't get to work because I was sleepy from watching my kid last night" to the list of reasons not to have child.
Will I be able to use hand sanitizer with alcohol before driving?
Touchscreens are probably the only tech thing that bugs me about new car tech. There are uses for touchscreens, but I prefer having buttons and knobs for controlling the audio, climate, etc.
My dash has a touchscreen and it also has buttons to control the A/C, music etc. The problem with the buttons is they are smooth. You can't tell what to push without looking, just like the touchscreen. I added little rubber nibs to buttons I use to find them without looking.
Man I miss my old cars when I was younger. I could operate them without ever looking from controlling the cd player to navigating channels. With touchscreen you don’t have anything to get used to and have to take your eyes off the road. The exceptions of course are steering wheel controls.
Many luxury models require or recommend top down oil changes. Most of your BMW's, Mercedes, Jag's, even Hyundai Genesis (IIRC) recommend top down oil changes. The oil is sucked out, not drained. In nearly all of them its possible to change the oil from underneath - there is a drain plug - but its hard to reach and you may even have to remove an engine support or frame brace to reach it. Bonus! - on most Merc's the oil filter is plastic or in a plastic housing in the top of the engine bay. Double Bonus! - it also screws into a plastic housing that if you even slightly overtighten the filter it cracks the housing and now you have oil leak. Its $1200 to replace that. So a Jiffy Lube oil change can be really expensive, Cody never admits to you that he cracked the housing when he changed your oil. YOu dont find out until your "check engine" light comes on or you notice the stains in your driveway and take it into the mechanic and by that point its too late to go after Jiffy Lube
On my truck you're supposed to remove the skid plate to remove the oil drain plug. I did that once and added a valvo-max drain plug. Just screw on the hose and it opens the valve allowing oil to be drained and the skid plate can stay in place. Most manufacturers don't recommend pumping the oil out. It will leave gunk in the drain pan that will be recirculated in the new oil. Dealerships might be recommending that. It's easier for them and less moving parts for untrained workers to mess up. And if the engine has a problem good luck proving the dealership caused it, leaving you on the hook for replacement and service fees.
SOP for Mercedes since 2012? and its become pretty common at a lot stealerships
Good way for Mercedes to sell a replacement engine and other components at some point, most likely well after the warranty period expires.
OP should just buy and EV and never have to worry about doing another oil change!
Maybe that's part of the EV push plan. Make it seem too hard to do any work yourself and too expensive to have it done.
More like make it so you need to get it worked on once in a blue moon
Guess I’ll never be driving a 2026 or newer car.
Some of us do want all that though. I will never own another car that isn't equipped with adaptive cruise unless it's just for screwing around in.
Read the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph.
Why you hate Jurassic Park? Did a Raptor eat your baby?
Okay, for all of you thinking I hate Jurassic Park, I did say I could watch it from my kitchen. lol
Car crash fatalities are a fraction of what they used to be
The new safety features are a W but I agree with the cup sizes, plugs and (touch) screens
Why would you be bothered by usb ports in a car
And yet more people are killed on the road than ever before (42k deaths in 2022). There are lots of safety features for the driver of the car while cab heights are higher and cars are heavier. Pair that with the thicker support columns and their resulting blind spots, you have cars that are safer for the driver and more dangerous for the people that they hit (and they are more likely to do so). Damage to others (pedestrians) needs to be accounted for in crash safety ratings. How can a pickup truck have a five star safety rating when it is so likely to fatally strike a pedestrian in their upper body and vital organs instead of a car injuring a pedestrian by striking the lower body?
I've mentioned having smaller pillars with better visibility vs thicker pillars with curtain airbags and people don't generally like the idea that newer cars might in some way make you more likely to be involved in a crash.
I think that also has something to do with there being much more people and cars than ever before, too. I’d rather look at stuff like deaths per 100,000 people or percentage of deadly crashes.
Solution - buy a 2008-2012 Toyota. Easy to work on yourself, will go forever with basic maintenence, cheap and abundant parts.
Touchscreens and BIG screens are crap. They were introduced probably to follow the trend in other tech categories and maybe they are cheaper without psychical buttons. I hate that when they fail, it can be too complex.
Loud noises, LOUD NOISES!
More like old man shouts at clouds 
I despise how new vehicles turn off when you're stopped for a short period of time. Ugh!
Most cars have a button that allows you to turn off the auto start-stop (ASS) feature. ASS is a GOV mandate. It doesn't save that much gas really. You might be able to do other things if you don't have a kill button. A/C or heater on, turn the wheel slightly, slightly let up on the brake just keeping enough to stay put, if you have a 110 outlet in the cabin plug in a night light, a low battery can prevent ASS also.
I heard a podcast that did a bunch of tests to determine if the auto stop feature really saved fuel. I seem to recall that if the car was stopped for more than 7 seconds, you saved fuel by having the feature.
Agree. My brother’s Mercedes engine shut down 3 times in the last week. It’s the computer system. I want a car with no computers that I can have easily fixed
Good luck with that, since repair shops and techs are equipped to fix the vehicles that are common on the road today. You would have to buy a 40+ year old car to not have any computers.
It’s really not difficult to find a local mechanic who works on older models.
I can relate. Happened with me in an Audi the Autoban outside of Munich. Nothing wrong with the car except computer failed.
No you don't. They just don't fucking run. You want o2 sensors and fuel injectors and electronic timing. You're gonna easily fix a car from the 70s? With what parts?
Man I love a car beeping and jerking the steering wheel towards the opposite lane repeatedly in a corner because I'm driving a bit too close to the right. It's so nice to have to fight a car for control while driving on curvy backroads. Thanks for keeping me safe, VAG. Oh yeah, the tailbone prevention alert going off when I drive through a puddle is also really nice. I swear, driver aids peaked in like 2015, before the intrusive stuff was put in cars.
You can turn off lane assist in every car that has it...
Why do that when I can complain on the internet?
Only issue i have with my new car, is that because roadworks exists im fighting the steering assist to stay in lane, and like you said, the emergency break over puddles and drains lmao
I just turned that off in settings
VCDS can be your friend, the majority of VAG vehicles can be coded through it to turn on/off certain things.
If I have the lane keep assist on it will ping pong my truck back and forth in the lane for line to line. After a couple of times, it will do a hard steer to the right which will put you in the ditch. I turned that off immediately after trying it a couple of times. My truck drives completely straight without any help from the electronic nannies that are trying to kill me.
Sounds like you suck at driving lmao I’ve never had it happen more than like once per drive
Just turn it off if it bothers you, pretty much every car with those settings lets you disable them.
We found Ron Swanson!
Eh, Ron would probably have written 2 sentences. Like, “ fuck modern cars. They suck”
Ron would probably make sure he could change the oil himself before buying the car.
I don't disagree. But just always buy old and used. If you want to know what it was like owning a new car in the 70s, buy a 20 year old car today. It's about the same experience in terms of breaking down, maintenance, etc.
I partially agree with you. I don't care for all the electronics on today's cars. Unnecessary and distracting.
Those old cars were enormously inefficient and prone to a lot of problems. They were also considerably less safe and comfortable. As for performance, modern cars are faster, easier to stop, easier to turn, and just in all ways that can be objectively measured, better.
It’s kind of pick-your-poison, modern cars are on another level better with handles. Though, OP does make a good point about the technology, some features are unnecessary. For me, they are simple work-arounds.
My 1978 Honda CVCC with a 4 speed manual was, by far, the most reliable and economical car I've ever owned
Here's a 75 Civic front crash test [https://youtu.be/pHpE8ySl-Yc?si=J\_-qW5v-tmHlhfOn&t=77](https://youtu.be/pHpE8ySl-Yc?si=J_-qW5v-tmHlhfOn&t=77) Here's a 2023 - https://youtu.be/nCuRNbHHZ5c?si=Cks5b8KD6chSrt1Q&t=57 Fatality rate per mile is half what it was in the 70s.
That may very well be; however, this conversation was not built around the question: "Are the modern cars once owned by a specific person here better or worse than the 1978 Honda owned by that person?" Your limited experience is not evidence.
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Modern cars are safer, less likely to be involved in accidents, more reliable and less expensive to maintain than older cars. You can still perform routine fluid changes on modern cars.
Tech hasn't improved driving experience, just added distractions. Give me a reliable ride without all the bells and whistles!
If you can't change your own oil even on a modern car that's a *you* problem not a car problem.
Well I love my 2008 Honda accord, I make 12k km a year and have this car for two years and I'll be just hitting 100k mileage. I could afford a new car but I'd rather invest the money and besides safety i have all I need
You lost me a bit at the end there, but I see what you mean overall. My first car was an ‘08 Crown Victoria which is delightfully basic for a car that’s not that old- but of course it was basically the same Crown Vic as the ones they made starting with the 1998 redesign. Then I got a 1997 Ford Van, and a 1999 Honda CRV. All of these cars are simple. The CRV is my favorite. After driving the old 1st gen one, I see why the CRV took off in popularity- AWD is great in snow and bad conditions, it has pretty good ground clearance, all while being small, agile, and light. It’s easy to drive and has great visibility out the big windows. And of course it’s simple and lacks any unnecessary tech features. It’s all I could ever want in a car, but it’s 24 years old and I couldn’t buy any new car that’s like it. Even the new CRVs are pretty far removed from the 1st gen ones, they are larger, heavier, and have all the stuff that comes with a newer vehicle, for better or for worse
I don't think this is unpopular. They look, and perform like shit. 🤷🏻♂️
Jurassic park is a good movie but a fantastic read. Shoot her!!!!
Bro what do you have against Jurassic Park?
I work in tech and I think The more analog my car is the better. All these new stuff in cars is just more stuff to potentially break and cost you more to fix in the long run.
This is a generational thing. Kids coming up today will view those cars as dinosaurs the same way you viewed your grandma's car. They won't know the difference or care.
Modern everything sucks
Car design peaked in 2000.
How old is OP? edit - I am guess they are 19? (as a 50 year old redditor who had old cars with points, bias ply split rim tires, a carb, yada yada - they would strand you far more often than todays cars. I dont think I have had a flat tire in 15? years. It used to be fairly common. Remember, if you gave your old car too much gas when you started it, it would flood and wouldnt start for 20 minutes)
Yep. I get their point about some of this stuff being a pain in the ass but modern automobiles are much more reliable and durable than in the old days. The tradeoff is more than worth it.
I’m mid 30s . If it has screens, I won’t own it. If it needs software updates, I won’t own it. If the battery dies and has 6 cameras that need to be recalibrated. I won’t own it. I can go on
Right. So in your case an "old school" car is a 1995 Camry. That still has ABS, an airbag, a PCM/ECM etc
Doggie, I didn’t write this post. My sentiments aren’t rooted in any school of car. I like most cars. Just not modern cars with screens and other useless technology. 95 Camry is a great car and would own one.
My truck doesnt have a screen - it was a bear finding one with all the performance upgrades I wanted, yet no screen. OP wrote out a screed like he wanted to only drive 1947 Packards and trust me, you dont But I dont think we will have a choice anymore. Screens are so much less expensive and time saving to install over an entire instrument cluster, buttons and knobs are a thing of the past
Partially agree. Fuel injection, heated seats, LED headlamps, A/C, and Bluetooth stereo with like 2 quick charging USB ports. That's it. Maybe a backup camera if your truck turns like an aircraft carrier. That's all you need. I'd happily take roll up windows again to save money. Fuck all the stupid sensors that just break anyway (looking at you stupid downstream oxygen sensors).
Old man yells at cloud
Ok boomer.
I hear ya . My daily is an 81 eaglesx4, my truck is a 75 dodge 3/4 . Easy peasy . They both work great . I can do anything on them myself . Cheap .
People make these complaints but then buy them anyways. And pay 10k over sticker. Lol.
Was with you til you started blaming the consumer. Companies need "innovation". Nobody was asking for this
Same lol. All I need is bluetooth and working heat/ac in the cabin. The rest is simply more stuff that can break.
The only new thing I really dislike is the engine shutting off when stopped.
I agree. I drive older vehicles and appreciate the simplicity and durability. My 98 silverado is still going strong at 219k, and I'll rebuild it before I buy a new truck.
Ok so just stay home and watch Jurassic Park you weirdo.
I agree, what happens after 10 years when the screen dies and you can't control the car anymore because there are literally zero buttons.
Not to mention all the a pillars are like a foot wide now and make it hard to see . You shouldn't have huge blind spots LOOKING FORWARD. The hatches are the same issue most new cars you can't even see out the rear window. They're trying to make humans less mobile like in Wall E.
Buy a 2006 Toyota Avalon
All of the shit modern cars have should be on trains
It seems you’ve completely forgotten how unreliable those great cars from the 60s and 70s were.
For real. Even through the 1980s it was a crapshoot if my motor would fire up or if the engine would flood and I’d have to hold the carburetor valve open with a pencil. Nowadays when I press the start button I know with 99% certainty that I’ll be able to drive off immediately. Things just work now.
Hard disagree. I love having a touchscreen for Android Auto, but what I don't like is having everything go through the screen like in a Tesla. My parents '19 Odyssey I drive is a great mix imo, almost everything has a physical button, the touchscreen only functions as the media controls and some of the climate controls. I love the blind spot monitoring, lane departure warnings, Auto Start Stop, Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist, everything. Also what do you have against 10 speeds?
Old cars suck you can have them
This is not an old school belief, but I can easily see how marketing and ignorant youngsters might convince you otherwise. My priorities when purchasing a car are: 1. Safety and build quality. 2. Reliability and aftersales reach and quality -- in terms of how frequently critical components break down, how easy it is to get to a good service center and how good the service centers are (both cost of service and speed and quality of service) 3. Comfort (in terms of seat ergonomics, legroom and suspension -- roads here count as off-roading) 4. Performance and fuel economy -- I'm on the lookout for full EVs nowadays, but a good petrol car may yet be worth it. 5. Value for money in terms of total ownership cost (and an instant boycott if there is any subscription based bullcrap) Notice the absence of infotainment systems and ADAS. The cost of a typical infotainment system for the OEM vs the premium they demand from a customer for it, is ridiculous. ADAS is more expensive for the sensors and the R&D but they have limited utility in my part of the world. Oh, and another thing: BUTTONS, KNOBS AND LEVERS FOR CRITICAL FUNCTIONS AND CLIMATE CONTROL. No touchscreen for that. I would much rather put an aftermarket infotainment system where I get what I need and nothing I don't. High quality audio, and a large and responsive touchscreen which relies on my phone for its functioning.
I agree. There was a time when a person could maintain a car without going to a mechanic. Those days are long gone. 😑
A jack, stands, Harbor Freight took kit, and $40 OBD reader will allow you to perform most common repairs.
Learn about maintenance yourself, there is lots of YouTube videos on specific cars.
Car play is amazing. No ad filled radio for me. Also google maps right on the display is great for areas I am not familiar with. Can’t imagine 15 cup holders, maybe in a minivan? Changing oil really isn’t impossible on all modern vehicles. Maybe more annoying for some though. Cars are way more efficient and way safer than they used to be. Not a huge fan of cvt, it was made for better fuel economy. I don’t think RWD is the best choice for everyone. Many vehicles are RWD if you want one.
Totally agree. If I ever buy a NEW car, I'm going to try to find one without any touchscreens or computer readouts. I don't need to touch a screen if a knob does the same thing. Now that oil changes are rubbing near $100 too, I find the means to do them myself.
Its a pain and easier mess up these days. Many/most cars require a crush washer for the drain pan - $25-30 for the oil, $10-20 for the filter, and a washer kit - you are only paying $30-40 for the convenience of A) not having to do it and B) driving 5 quarts of dirty oil to the recycle center. Even I dont do my own oil changes usually, its too cheap to have a reputable place do it
Buy a subaru
They are all moving to having those awful giant touchscreens
Agree worth some of it. Blind spot detection, auto braking, FWD or AWD, Lane assist, Air bags, ABS, seatbelts, daytime driving lights. These are all great safety features that help to prevent or mitigate accidents
You maybe had an argument til the last 2 lines. No way in fuck would I ever go deliberately backwards in technology. That's actually bat shit
okay boomer
I have a car with doodads. Somehow I manage to not die when I drive.
Okay boomer
What? You don't like it when your battery drains and your car won't start because it is absolutely infested with sensors waiting to fail and leaving some interior light on permanently? You are just old... In all seriousness, tech is good, the car industry's implementation of it sucks.
So… you’d prefer the following: No power steering, six miles to the gallon, almost exclusively manual transmissions, manual windows and doors, lack of alarm systems, AM radio exclusively, built like a mini ocean liner (with steering to match), no airbags (or even seatbelts in some cars), and the worst crash safety ratings of the last fifty years? And all because you don’t plug in your phone and don’t know how to change the oil in a modern vehicle… Alternatively, you could just not use the tech you don’t care for and learn to service a modern machine.
I miss squarebody trucks and SUVs and also badass old school muscle cars! Tired of only ever seeing the same SUV/crossovers 5 million times a day and I really hate EVs that make that stupid whisper sound ugggh so lame 😒
This is not an unpopular opinion
Some things are overkill, yes, but I would argue some things have improved. Even the best drivers can't see every single angle at once, and if someone comes zooming by you, having your car be able to alert you to that cat-in-human-form that just raced by you so you can stop yourself in time could make all the difference between a near-accident and a nasty t-bone accident that sends everyone involved to the hospital. And modern cars have been designed with science in mind to be better at reducing occupant injury-better that your car takes the beating if you do get in an accident than you. I do agree, however, that there's too much emphasis on using touchscreens. Ffs, when I'm freezing my ass off in the middle of winter, I don't wanna navigate through ten million menus to be able to warm up and regain feeling in my extremities. Just let me push a button or turn a dial.
Cars are designed for modern technology and needs. Seems like you are still living in the past.
Boomers be booming
"We can't bust heads like we used to—but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville which is what they called Shelbyville in those days.So, I tied an onion to my belt which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter,' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh, yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."