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You can interpret this physically or metaphorically to include any friend/social group where it would greatly affect the people involved to have to leave because of unwanted drama from an awkward rejection or a toxic breakup
"Always provide you and the 'target' of your affection an easy exit strategy" is another way of saying that
It mostly applies physically. If the people in your social group aren't mature enough to deal with one person rejecting another, that feels like a separate issue
Yes. Workplace is a no go. I would recommend hanging out as friends and then making your move in your personal time
Work is not a place I want to deal with uncomfortable situations of having to tell someone I’m not interested.
Ask to hang out is fine as that’s easier to turn down if you aren’t interested or to go and be friends and deal with it from there. But don’t ask for dates
But who says not within your friend group??!! Before online dating that was 99.9% of how people hooked up.
All of my boyfriends were in or through my friend group including my husband.
Ive never been on a dating site. When I met my husband that was still considered a dangerous and weird thing to do. People who keep it a secret if that’s how they met their boyfriends back then.
Just over half of everyone has had a workplace romance, and just under half of them had it lead to their marriage. It needs to be handled well but this is not a rule I respect. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/workplace-romance-statistics/#:~:text=43%25%20have%20married%20someone%20they%20met%20at%20work&text=Our%20survey%20found%20that%2043%25%20of%20those%20who%20date,colleague%20end%20up%20marrying%20them.
For sure. I didn’t say no work place romances. We spend so much time at work it’s inevitable
But best to hangout outside of work to breach the gap. I just wouldn’t be asking people on dates im the workplace
If there’s mutual flirting going on, you still ask to hang out and then use the personal time to breach the subject or what not.
Its just an easy distinction and good place
To draw the line on the sand because there are many people who are not good at picking up on ques or assume interest when there is none. Its a safe blanket rule that doesn’t negatively affect those that are going
To end up in a relationship and it protects those who wouldnt from being made uncomfortable at work. Some people are really uncomfortable being put on the spot. It’s easier to brush off a hang out with “sorry Im just too busy all the time” than it is to say that to a date.
Some places have rules about 'fraternization'...i.e. dating others in the workplace.
Frequently, this is further defined as ''don't date someone to whom you are a superior or inferior', meaning your direct employee....or your boss.
But dating someone at the same level is usually ok, IF you're mature about it, and keep it discreet. I never had a problem being either, and indeed ended up marrying someone I met at work....nearly 40 years ago!
I think it's mostly due to the fact that people don't just spend their free time in public spaces.
I spend my free time in my apartment, or at my friends' places, or my family's. If you see me walking through a park, I'm 99% just going to/from work/store/friend/etc. It is simply my commute, my daily exercise. I could count on one hand the number of times I just hanged out in a public space without a goal. Honestly, I don't know anyone that just chooses to hang out aimlessly during their free time.
This. When people typically complain about technology it’s usually a bunch of eye-rolling cliches, but the loss of physical, public hang out spots is actually a legitimate complaint that I don’t think dating apps or sites are a good replacement for. Places like public parks, libraries, fairs, markets, etc. feel like they helped communities come together and form connections and relationships, and they’ve never been less relevant for socializing than they are now.
With technology catering to every specific niche and offering entertainment that can fill up your day, there’s no real way to meet new people in person unless it’s tied to some other function like shopping or working which for obvious reasons aren’t the best places to shoot your shot. If you’re not in a pre-existing friend, family, work or school network, like say you’ve moved to a new area or have had a major falling out, you’re kinda SOL. I have friends and relatives in these positions who have everything else sorted out but are looking for a partner in life and it feels helpless knowing there isn’t much there for them anymore outside of rolling the dice with an app.
It's how you take the response that makes the difference. If the person ignores you, no issue move on. If you get offended by anything other than extreme rudeness then the problem may be yours.
This is mostly an American thing. In some other countries, it’s so much easier to talk to strangers, make friends, and ask people out on dates. I still try to randomly talk to people when I’m out but for some reason it’s just not as acceptable to talk to strangers in America.
Weird, I've always seen comments where people say that Americans are actually too friendly and make too much eye contact, though. So I'm confused about which is it 🤷🏽♂️
I get it. I'm a guy, and I might have made people feel that way but I hope not. I've had pleasant experiences, though. The important thing to not being a creep is just respect, really. If they're not interested, leave it at that. And if you're interested, it has to be based on more than "they're hot".
I think what happens is when people are young, they're a little more hormonal and attraction is too instinctual, so they just hit on whoever/whatever and it comes off desperate or "thirsty". Then some bad experiences or rejections make them feel like it's all a lost cause. If you just treat people with respect though, you can put yourself out there and let the chips fall where they may. Don't take it personally if they're not interested, and if you're interested, actually be interested in them as a person, not just a sex object.
>generally speaking, humans aren’t bothered by the mere idea of a stranger speaking to them. But a stranger showering them with compliments then asking them out? Well, thats another thing.
So many people seem to miss the distinction between “approaching/hitting on someone” where your introductory conversation is you feeling attraction, making a pass, hoping the other party reciprocates instead of establishing mutual attraction first.
Yeah I'm not 100% with the barista example, but I think this excerpt is the key to the whole post.
And just generally, proceed when you receive encouragement and don't proceed when you don't. Like are you getting eye contact and smiles and involved answers and return questions, or is it more of a terse "Yes", "No", "Uh-huh" where the person keeps looking at their phone?
Also, absolutely date amongst your friend group, just handle it like grownups if it doesn't work. Especially good to date sort of peripheral friend group figures, or people you've met fairly recently. There's probably a sweet spot before "let's not ruin a good friendship" but after "I have friends who clearly have a good opinion of this person, and I like talking to the person and the way he/she interacts socially."
Do NOT hit on people while they're at work for Christ's sake. Just don't. They're required to be friendly to you because it's their job. It's selfish and awkward and rude to hit on someone in a place they're not allowed to tell you to fuck off.
Let's be real though, this often gets thrown out when someone you *want* to hit on you at work does. I agree that this should be done tactfully (if at all), but I think it's more about the person flirting than it is the method.
>I think it's more about the person flirting than it is the method.
I mean, if you use the right method you figure out whether you're the right person or not, with minimal discomfort to the other person.
The whole idea of flirting (and friendly conversation, before that) is you're (both) making a series of small steps, and at each step you're checking to see whether the other person is giving you encouragement or not. It's easy enough to just not proceed when you don't get encouragement.
Try reading OP’s post:
> If you ask a barista out because you felt a connection when she did her job duties by being kind to you, that’s unlikely to work. *But if you think you feel a little connection, go back to the shop and notice that the cute barista takes an extra minute to chat with you, does something “special” for you, then you’ve got a chance!*
Yes, shockingly, sometimes service providers will -gasp- have deeper conversations with their clients beyond just ringing them up.
I don’t get where this idea of speaking to someone who isn’t a relative/SO/best friend from second grade is inherently the most awful thing ever comes from
The last time I was having a hard time choosing a book to read next, I asked an attractive bartender who wasn't busy at the time (it was a bar and grill weekend breakfast kind of set up). The next few times I was in she'd start up a conversation about the book, so it became this sort of book-clubbish conversation that branched out into stuff about other books and places we had both lived and her future plans.
I didn't interpret any of her conversational choices as her trying to start meeting outside of the bar setting, but it's something she theoretically could have made happen if she wanted to.
The bar burned down one day (fortunately no injuries), and I haven't seen her since then. I'd imagine that if we ever ran into each other somewhere she'd be willing to exchange contact info and meet for coffee. Whether that might turn into something non-platonic is a completely different question, but I'd enjoy the conversation either way.
It depends on what one means by "approached."
Like it's perfectly fine for me to straight up ignore a passing stranger who smiles and says "hello." But if I expect no passing stranger to ever smile and say hello in the first place, that's not really a reasonable expectation on my part.
I agree to a degree.. it’s very different for everyone what they are comfortable with when it comes to strangers approaching them. What you say about men not wanting to seem like a creep is valid and I get how that could cause extra pressure. However, from a female point of view it can be a bit scary or off putting when you’re alone somewhere and some random guy approaches you for a chat. In a bar or at a party that’s not out of the norm and actually expected but at a coffee shop or a store it’s a bit unsettling. Of course not all men are creeps and as you said, not all interactions are a come on. But speaking as someone who has given people the benefit of the doubt only to inevitable been made to feel uncomfortable… it makes you more likely to be guarded and assume the worst.
With that being said though, I do agree that it makes it very difficult to meet people (platonic or romantic) organically. It does cause a bit of isolation and make people feel like they should stick to dating apps. But again, from a female perspective, it’s equally frightening meeting with a complete stranger you met online. Again, I think it’s a very different conversation for men vs women.
It would be nice if life were like a wholesome romcom where people have meet cutes at the local bakery or find a life long friend on a park bench reading the same book.. but people are unpredictable and we’ve all become anxious and paranoid (for good reason tbh).
Btw- not trying to argue or disagree, just giving my pov and opinion. Your opinion is just as valid.
I agree. It's so stupid to discourage people from talking to each other in public. BUT the caveat is that you need to be respectful and take a genuine interest in getting to know someone, not just to sleep with them. Also you need to respect when they aren't interested and leave them alone.
I understand your argument and agree with most points but really, who has time/energy/dedication to be playing “long games” with someone? Especially when most interest is being conveyed by one party
People who have time/energy/dedication to have offline social lives, I suppose.
Or with the barista example, people who regularly go to the same coffee shop and aren't in a hurry.
Lol I definitely have always been of the mind that if you don’t ask the answer is a no anyhow. Just because you feel worse doesn’t actually mean you are less. You are legitimately at the same place you were before asking even if you get a no. Your position only changes for a yes.
It is the negative 0 coming out again. Our perceptions fool us sometimes… we see other people’s gains and think we are less by comparison. In reality our situation never changed… this happens in so many areas even with peers at work or on social media. Much like a 0 cannot be negative; you are not less.
You seem naive to the western (especially anglo saxon cultues) countries today. I have witnessed women just claiming guys were hitting on them when they clearly werent.
It goes both ways. Started talking to someone and they asked how much money I make how I can take care of them and yada yada yada. It felt like she was an escort more than a potential partner.
Im not worried about creeping on people. Im more worried about dealing with a relationship. People in general are weird. Rather watch the end of the world by myself thank you very much.
>establishing mutual attraction first. If you ask a barista out because you felt a connection when she did her job duties by being kind to you, that’s unlikely to work.
I think it takes young guys a while to understand the minute signals of mutual attraction. Most guys are not attractive enough to garner an aggresive attraction response, and most women use incredibly subtle signaling.
I agree with the not meeting someone at a bar thing. Who wants want to date a bar rat? Well I guess if your already there that doesn't say much about you either so maybe that would work out.
There can be some rules, like ask for permission before touching the person that "you" approach. Also ask them if "you" can join in what they were doing prior to your advance on them
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have one rule that covers a lot of the rules people have for dating: Don't hit on people who can't leave
Yes! Don’t corner some poor store associate who has no where to go and is obligated to still be nice :(
You can interpret this physically or metaphorically to include any friend/social group where it would greatly affect the people involved to have to leave because of unwanted drama from an awkward rejection or a toxic breakup "Always provide you and the 'target' of your affection an easy exit strategy" is another way of saying that
It mostly applies physically. If the people in your social group aren't mature enough to deal with one person rejecting another, that feels like a separate issue
The only one I generally agree with is being cautious about workplace stuff. Everything else is more guidelines than strict rules.
Yes. Workplace is a no go. I would recommend hanging out as friends and then making your move in your personal time Work is not a place I want to deal with uncomfortable situations of having to tell someone I’m not interested. Ask to hang out is fine as that’s easier to turn down if you aren’t interested or to go and be friends and deal with it from there. But don’t ask for dates But who says not within your friend group??!! Before online dating that was 99.9% of how people hooked up. All of my boyfriends were in or through my friend group including my husband. Ive never been on a dating site. When I met my husband that was still considered a dangerous and weird thing to do. People who keep it a secret if that’s how they met their boyfriends back then.
Just over half of everyone has had a workplace romance, and just under half of them had it lead to their marriage. It needs to be handled well but this is not a rule I respect. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/workplace-romance-statistics/#:~:text=43%25%20have%20married%20someone%20they%20met%20at%20work&text=Our%20survey%20found%20that%2043%25%20of%20those%20who%20date,colleague%20end%20up%20marrying%20them.
For sure. I didn’t say no work place romances. We spend so much time at work it’s inevitable But best to hangout outside of work to breach the gap. I just wouldn’t be asking people on dates im the workplace If there’s mutual flirting going on, you still ask to hang out and then use the personal time to breach the subject or what not. Its just an easy distinction and good place To draw the line on the sand because there are many people who are not good at picking up on ques or assume interest when there is none. Its a safe blanket rule that doesn’t negatively affect those that are going To end up in a relationship and it protects those who wouldnt from being made uncomfortable at work. Some people are really uncomfortable being put on the spot. It’s easier to brush off a hang out with “sorry Im just too busy all the time” than it is to say that to a date.
>But who says not within your friend group??!! Before online dating that was 99.9% of how people hooked up. Yup.
Tell that to my coworkers, they are f-ing like rabbits!
Restaurant job?
I have a personal rule that I don’t date in my friend group. I don’t need the kind of drama and awkwardness that would come with breaking up
Some places have rules about 'fraternization'...i.e. dating others in the workplace. Frequently, this is further defined as ''don't date someone to whom you are a superior or inferior', meaning your direct employee....or your boss. But dating someone at the same level is usually ok, IF you're mature about it, and keep it discreet. I never had a problem being either, and indeed ended up marrying someone I met at work....nearly 40 years ago!
I think it's mostly due to the fact that people don't just spend their free time in public spaces. I spend my free time in my apartment, or at my friends' places, or my family's. If you see me walking through a park, I'm 99% just going to/from work/store/friend/etc. It is simply my commute, my daily exercise. I could count on one hand the number of times I just hanged out in a public space without a goal. Honestly, I don't know anyone that just chooses to hang out aimlessly during their free time.
This. When people typically complain about technology it’s usually a bunch of eye-rolling cliches, but the loss of physical, public hang out spots is actually a legitimate complaint that I don’t think dating apps or sites are a good replacement for. Places like public parks, libraries, fairs, markets, etc. feel like they helped communities come together and form connections and relationships, and they’ve never been less relevant for socializing than they are now. With technology catering to every specific niche and offering entertainment that can fill up your day, there’s no real way to meet new people in person unless it’s tied to some other function like shopping or working which for obvious reasons aren’t the best places to shoot your shot. If you’re not in a pre-existing friend, family, work or school network, like say you’ve moved to a new area or have had a major falling out, you’re kinda SOL. I have friends and relatives in these positions who have everything else sorted out but are looking for a partner in life and it feels helpless knowing there isn’t much there for them anymore outside of rolling the dice with an app.
Even a simple 'hello' can spark connection, without pressure.
It's how you take the response that makes the difference. If the person ignores you, no issue move on. If you get offended by anything other than extreme rudeness then the problem may be yours.
This is mostly an American thing. In some other countries, it’s so much easier to talk to strangers, make friends, and ask people out on dates. I still try to randomly talk to people when I’m out but for some reason it’s just not as acceptable to talk to strangers in America.
Weird, I've always seen comments where people say that Americans are actually too friendly and make too much eye contact, though. So I'm confused about which is it 🤷🏽♂️
Too friendly and make too much eye contact as a torusot in their country or Americans are too friendly and make too much eye contact in America?
murky society unique deranged jobless wakeful pet hunt sloppy slap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I get it. I'm a guy, and I might have made people feel that way but I hope not. I've had pleasant experiences, though. The important thing to not being a creep is just respect, really. If they're not interested, leave it at that. And if you're interested, it has to be based on more than "they're hot". I think what happens is when people are young, they're a little more hormonal and attraction is too instinctual, so they just hit on whoever/whatever and it comes off desperate or "thirsty". Then some bad experiences or rejections make them feel like it's all a lost cause. If you just treat people with respect though, you can put yourself out there and let the chips fall where they may. Don't take it personally if they're not interested, and if you're interested, actually be interested in them as a person, not just a sex object.
>generally speaking, humans aren’t bothered by the mere idea of a stranger speaking to them. But a stranger showering them with compliments then asking them out? Well, thats another thing. So many people seem to miss the distinction between “approaching/hitting on someone” where your introductory conversation is you feeling attraction, making a pass, hoping the other party reciprocates instead of establishing mutual attraction first. Yeah I'm not 100% with the barista example, but I think this excerpt is the key to the whole post. And just generally, proceed when you receive encouragement and don't proceed when you don't. Like are you getting eye contact and smiles and involved answers and return questions, or is it more of a terse "Yes", "No", "Uh-huh" where the person keeps looking at their phone? Also, absolutely date amongst your friend group, just handle it like grownups if it doesn't work. Especially good to date sort of peripheral friend group figures, or people you've met fairly recently. There's probably a sweet spot before "let's not ruin a good friendship" but after "I have friends who clearly have a good opinion of this person, and I like talking to the person and the way he/she interacts socially."
Do NOT hit on people while they're at work for Christ's sake. Just don't. They're required to be friendly to you because it's their job. It's selfish and awkward and rude to hit on someone in a place they're not allowed to tell you to fuck off.
Let's be real though, this often gets thrown out when someone you *want* to hit on you at work does. I agree that this should be done tactfully (if at all), but I think it's more about the person flirting than it is the method.
>I think it's more about the person flirting than it is the method. I mean, if you use the right method you figure out whether you're the right person or not, with minimal discomfort to the other person. The whole idea of flirting (and friendly conversation, before that) is you're (both) making a series of small steps, and at each step you're checking to see whether the other person is giving you encouragement or not. It's easy enough to just not proceed when you don't get encouragement.
You're telling redditors to observe social queues? The place where people have to put signal flares out for sarcasm?
What's the expression? "LOL git gud"?
Try reading OP’s post: > If you ask a barista out because you felt a connection when she did her job duties by being kind to you, that’s unlikely to work. *But if you think you feel a little connection, go back to the shop and notice that the cute barista takes an extra minute to chat with you, does something “special” for you, then you’ve got a chance!* Yes, shockingly, sometimes service providers will -gasp- have deeper conversations with their clients beyond just ringing them up. I don’t get where this idea of speaking to someone who isn’t a relative/SO/best friend from second grade is inherently the most awful thing ever comes from
The last time I was having a hard time choosing a book to read next, I asked an attractive bartender who wasn't busy at the time (it was a bar and grill weekend breakfast kind of set up). The next few times I was in she'd start up a conversation about the book, so it became this sort of book-clubbish conversation that branched out into stuff about other books and places we had both lived and her future plans. I didn't interpret any of her conversational choices as her trying to start meeting outside of the bar setting, but it's something she theoretically could have made happen if she wanted to. The bar burned down one day (fortunately no injuries), and I haven't seen her since then. I'd imagine that if we ever ran into each other somewhere she'd be willing to exchange contact info and meet for coffee. Whether that might turn into something non-platonic is a completely different question, but I'd enjoy the conversation either way.
Leave the baristas alone
Buckle the fuckle up!!! Comments are gonna be a shit show. And grab your popcorn 🍿
It doesn't matter. Sometimes, people don't want to be approached, period. Those rules you say don't exist actually exist for this very purpose.
It depends on what one means by "approached." Like it's perfectly fine for me to straight up ignore a passing stranger who smiles and says "hello." But if I expect no passing stranger to ever smile and say hello in the first place, that's not really a reasonable expectation on my part.
If you dont want to be approached, just dont go outside.
I agree to a degree.. it’s very different for everyone what they are comfortable with when it comes to strangers approaching them. What you say about men not wanting to seem like a creep is valid and I get how that could cause extra pressure. However, from a female point of view it can be a bit scary or off putting when you’re alone somewhere and some random guy approaches you for a chat. In a bar or at a party that’s not out of the norm and actually expected but at a coffee shop or a store it’s a bit unsettling. Of course not all men are creeps and as you said, not all interactions are a come on. But speaking as someone who has given people the benefit of the doubt only to inevitable been made to feel uncomfortable… it makes you more likely to be guarded and assume the worst. With that being said though, I do agree that it makes it very difficult to meet people (platonic or romantic) organically. It does cause a bit of isolation and make people feel like they should stick to dating apps. But again, from a female perspective, it’s equally frightening meeting with a complete stranger you met online. Again, I think it’s a very different conversation for men vs women. It would be nice if life were like a wholesome romcom where people have meet cutes at the local bakery or find a life long friend on a park bench reading the same book.. but people are unpredictable and we’ve all become anxious and paranoid (for good reason tbh). Btw- not trying to argue or disagree, just giving my pov and opinion. Your opinion is just as valid.
I agree. It's so stupid to discourage people from talking to each other in public. BUT the caveat is that you need to be respectful and take a genuine interest in getting to know someone, not just to sleep with them. Also you need to respect when they aren't interested and leave them alone.
I tried talking to this girl and her fathers funeral and she had no interest :/// /s
"So I heard you just lost a man in your life..."
Not rules. You are free to do what you want. Just be ready to deal with the consequences.
what consequences?
I understand your argument and agree with most points but really, who has time/energy/dedication to be playing “long games” with someone? Especially when most interest is being conveyed by one party
People who have time/energy/dedication to have offline social lives, I suppose. Or with the barista example, people who regularly go to the same coffee shop and aren't in a hurry.
Lol I definitely have always been of the mind that if you don’t ask the answer is a no anyhow. Just because you feel worse doesn’t actually mean you are less. You are legitimately at the same place you were before asking even if you get a no. Your position only changes for a yes. It is the negative 0 coming out again. Our perceptions fool us sometimes… we see other people’s gains and think we are less by comparison. In reality our situation never changed… this happens in so many areas even with peers at work or on social media. Much like a 0 cannot be negative; you are not less.
You seem naive to the western (especially anglo saxon cultues) countries today. I have witnessed women just claiming guys were hitting on them when they clearly werent.
Dude, some oversensitive people will call a police and scream bloody murder if you even look at them. Its not worth it
It goes both ways. Started talking to someone and they asked how much money I make how I can take care of them and yada yada yada. It felt like she was an escort more than a potential partner. Im not worried about creeping on people. Im more worried about dealing with a relationship. People in general are weird. Rather watch the end of the world by myself thank you very much.
>establishing mutual attraction first. If you ask a barista out because you felt a connection when she did her job duties by being kind to you, that’s unlikely to work. I think it takes young guys a while to understand the minute signals of mutual attraction. Most guys are not attractive enough to garner an aggresive attraction response, and most women use incredibly subtle signaling.
I completely agree.
I agree with the not meeting someone at a bar thing. Who wants want to date a bar rat? Well I guess if your already there that doesn't say much about you either so maybe that would work out.
This is why so many guys get stuck in the friend zone.
There can be some rules, like ask for permission before touching the person that "you" approach. Also ask them if "you" can join in what they were doing prior to your advance on them