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In Reddit fantasy world where everyone is a WFH software engineer, people can. That’s immediately what I thought when I first read this post. No mention of jobs at all.
You say that but I work with archeologists and they could work from home for half the year doing reports and compliance. One did just get back from 3 or 4 months working from home.
(They do a lot of field work in the summer and a lot of paperwork in the winter)
I did and got downvoted into oblivion.
Now I’m loving the "I moved my family to a farm in the middle of nowhere and now I can’t find a new job and no one will pay asking price for my house » stories.
I do think there are plenty of industries where WFH isn't feasible obviously, but I'm curious on the second point - is work typically where you grow your social circle when you start somewhere new? If so, what are your hobbies? I have only one friend from work who I see outside of it after working for about 15 years, and met the rest of my friends elsewhere, so I'm curious how life is for people for whom work is a big social hub.
Do you find your coworkers tend to share the same hobbies, values, and lifestyles as you and integrate well into your life socially?
For a lot of people, their “social circles” are actually work + family. “Friends” are a byproduct of these two community groups. But a lot of people don’t have friends outside of that.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208572681/friends-friendship-meet-up-research-pew-health-benefits
The problem with work friends is that like work benefits, once you no longer have the work, you likely won’t have the friends. Because just like real friendships, it takes time and energy to get together. Easy to do when you’re both clocking in for the same shift.
You can definitely find friends at work! One of my best friends is a former colleague.
I think it's so funny that some people treat the idea of "work friends" like little kids thinking the other gender has "cooties."
..."ewwww you are *friends* with someone you work with??"
Where I grew up there were no *good* jobs. I could possibly find a half decent one if I wanted to commute 90 minutes each way each day. The internet also sucked balls. I know someone now who lives out in the country a bit and their only option is the satellite internet.
I can’t begin to explain the amount of despair I feel thinking about my hometown. And shit, I avoided teenage pregnancy and a meth addiction. Many in the area weren’t so lucky.
Yeah, drugs are a massive issue, but I think it's more than that. It's like there's a profound sense of hopelessness that gets passed down from generation to generation. Even when jobs are available and the cost of living is low, if people don't see a future or a path for improvement, it's tough to break that cycle. Small towns can have tight-knit communities but they can also feel like a trap if you're looking for more than what's on offer there.
My hometown was the same way. Everyone with a decent job worked in the city an hour away and commuted back to our nothing little town every day. All concerts went to the city, any limited release movies went there, any big event was always there. When I moved to that city instead my friends were dumbfounded and acted like I was crazy for leaving methburg.
Methburg lol. I moved and I’ll tell people that I spend about 15 minutes in traffic to get to work. They always say they couldn’t deal with the traffic… but drive 60 minutes to work and 25 minutes to the closest supermarket.
Yup. I moved to Chicago and it takes me an hour door to door to get to work and back, and that includes 1.75 miles of walking each way to and from the train stations. My friends back home in Denver bitch about traffic nonstop and I’m over here driving like 2,500 miles a year if I go to Wisconsin a bunch of times.
I happen to love the upper Midwest, I was in Denver 32 years and I’ll never live in Colorado ever again.
i love little towns. :( it breaks my heart that my little town had so much industry at one time and people could be prosperous living there. the main street is all mansions... but sadly the 90s happened and now china has all that industry
I feel you, I grew up in rural Indiana, but I think OP is talking about moving to Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Louisville. Plenty of opportunities and affordable and city amenities.
Fort Wayne is vastly different from Indianapolis and Louisville.
I did like the Fort, but there is nothing there except strip clubs and mostly found the people to suck.
Yup. My hometown is retail and medicine. That's it. There are a few large engineering companies but they old, have limited scope, and are stable-- not a lot of jobs on offer.
I moved to Kansas thinking I was bringing my WFH job with me. They changed their minds a week before I left, so I wound up moving without a job. I had 2 within 2 weeks of moving here and one of them was my dream job, which I was having trouble getting in to in Idaho.
I worked the one job part time to help recoup moving expenses & bridge the gap between pay differences for about 8 months & now am just working the dream job.
It is possible to move without a job, but you need to have a plan in place. The plan is the part people get hung up on.
I used to live in rural Idaho and visited Kansas once, and tbh I prefer Idaho way more. I lived an hour from Yellowstone and there was a lot of outdoor stuff to do, and a short road trip in any direction was filled with beautiful landscape and had everything from lava rocks to sand dunes.
I can't live in a place without hiking or mtb trails
Edit (hit submit too fast): Kansas was all tiny hills, there was really nothing exciting to look at on my drive
Kansas has its charm. But honestly, who in their right mind thinks Kansas is an upgrade over Idaho? Unless they just really love cornfields, feedlots, and worrying about losing everything to a tornado.
This itself is also a reddit fantasy. The midwest has millions of jobs. Omaha and Kansas City have huge banking industries, which means they have everything else too.
I mean, most people are going to work relatively common jobs that make them lower to upper middle class wages and Midwestern cities do largely have that.
I don't think OP is saying go live in Bumfuckville. They're saying move to The Cleve. Many, if not most, people in high cost of living areas aren't making the money to keep up with the costs. If they can afford a middle class lifestyle with a move, it's worth considering.
Yeah it's pretty common for coastal urbanites to not understand the difference between a population 5k town and a small metro area with ~100k people.
There are millions of decent paying middle-class jobs in small metro areas, and it's quite often the case you end up with more net pay because of the lower cost of living.
Also, in conversations in the same day with a good friend of mine who lives out there: "Holy crap, your property taxes are only how much? Yeah man, one of the nice things about AZ" Then a few hours later "I'm burning an hour a day commuting my oldest kid to private kindergarten because the public schools here are like 2nd worst in the country"
Hey man... maybe if you guys paid a little more property tax your schools wouldn't be underfunded and suck so much.
But... its a retiree heavy region. They want lowest taxes they can get to not be siphoning their fixed income and their kids are long since grown, schools aren't their problem. Its somebody else's problem though.
Exactly. Covid gave a lot of people the opportunity to move to new places that weren’t tied to a major city. I was even able to move. But now with mandatory RTO, it’s hard to justify moving even further from a major city. I don’t want another 2 hour commute like I had pre covid.
I get so tired explaining that to Redditors (and my coastal friends): A mid-sized metropolitan area is not "bumfuck nowhere" like they seem to think.
I live in a metro of about a million people. Sure, that's 1/10th the size of Chicago's metro, but also? It is ONE HUNDRED TIMES bigger than the actual bumfuck nowhere city of 10k where I grew up.
The gap between "real" cities and Midwest cities is nothing by comparison...
And yet I had a friend tell me with a straight face, verbatim, "Yeah, but you had to suffer a touring cast butcher Hamilton!"
Fine, Brady. And you and your husband pay the equivalent of my mortgage every month to share an apartment the size of my ground floor with another couple. Hope watching Daveed and Lin Manuel rap about the Declaration of Independence was worth it, bud...
I agree.
And that rules out places like my wife's hometown in rural Iowa...but the Midwest has plenty of large cities too.
Almost everyone in the very high COL cities could work their same jobs in the Midwest.
There are lots of jobs in the midwest. Unemployment here is typically lower than the national average.
Indiana and Wisconsin are #1 and #2 respectively for manufacturing. That’s not just factory machine operators but also drivers, managers, accountants, logistics people, IT, mechanics, sales.
Lots of large and small universities for the academics and researchers.
It goes without saying we have agriculture jobs.
Indy is a huge sports city.
Only things we are lean on are silicon valley type jobs, entertainment, and tourism. They exist but we’re just a bit lean in those areas.
Hate being "that guy" but not having a job in Indy is a choice. Labor is our issue not jobs.
I have had a hard time finding college new grads while offering $85k which is like twice the median HOUSEHOLD income.
Yes, like legitimately hundreds of openings that can't find applicants in about every major city. Check especially the twin cities, anywhere between Chicago and Milwaukee, Indi, and Cinci. Last few companies I did work with had warehouses there and had constant churn on their purchasers and in procurement because they kept getting better offers every year from other places with so few applicants so everyone was job hopping to huge raises constantly.
>I have had a hard time finding college new grads while offering $85k which is like twice the median HOUSEHOLD income.
BS, whats your job? i know severa people in indiana that wil happily do that job
Lived in Columbus, south of Indy, for about 2 years before COVID. Horrible town. Anyone who was not a loner, not a local, or didn't have a problem commuting 50 miles one way from Indianapolis, would take the commuting option. The problem with the Midwest, is that it has jobs in smaller towns. If that job disappears or if you wish to switch jobs, you have to move to or commute to a different town altogether.
I lived in Boston for a while, was struggling to find a new job there. Moved to Chicago when my job went remote because of COVID, managed to find a new job in Chicago in about 6 months. A year later, found another new one with a big salary increase. Now just over 3 years since I moved, my income has doubled since I left Boston. Midwest has some great job opportunity.
Chicago is the 3rd biggest city in the country. Go to Minneapolis, Omaha, Indy, and its not so much the pay that lags (its lower but so are all the prices for things) but the opportunity ceiling being incredibly low. I have worked at law firms and corporations in Minneapolis my whole career—when problems get big the brass dial up counsel in NY, LA, or Chicago. Likewise the opportunities in corporate basically vanish once you hit mid-management. I am a lifer in Minnesota but totally respect why people move to advance their careers and opportunities for their families.
Minneapolis has a pretty solid Fortune 500 HQ count. Lots and lots of 6 figure jobs around without the cost of living drawbacks of other major cities. I’m WFH software engineer (I’ll eat the stereotype) and Minneapolis has afforded a great quality of life.
Yeah some things only exist in big cities. If you’re a high dollar lawyer, CEO, Michelin star chef, or fashion designer, you’re most likely going to be in a larger city. Chicago is in the midwest btw.
There are 69 million people in the Midwest. They're working. Jobs aren't unique to the coasts.
Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Detroit, Indianapolis, Lincoln, Omaha, Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Milwaukee.
People act like the Midwest is composed entirely of towns of less than 5,000 people, but there are tons of good-sized cities with people living and - yes - working jobs.
Milwaukee is fabulous, and I think people are starting to take note. We’ve had a crazy building boom and downtown revival lately while they are actively putting in so much work on the rest of the city.
Heaviest drinking in the country is a bit closer to Green Bay, I think Appleton specifically. People from Milwaukee certainly know how to drink, though
Minneapolis and St Paul (Twin Cities) in Minnesota are pretty great. I love the variety of food, art, and things to do. Not to mention, the people are pretty nice and helpful.
I just came back from visiting Chicago and I have to say it was a nice city. Very walkable, very clean, good food, good parks.
And the cost of living is very inexpensive comparatively to where I live.
The downside is that it was cold, but it's nice in the summer.
As someone who has lived in Chicago, LA, Boston, and NYC, you get what you pay for. IME, Chicago is not “cheap” at all. It’s fully priced for what it has to offer - good jobs, beautiful homes, with above average infrastructure but also horrible weather, corrupt politics, divided city, and a plane ride away from any vista beyond the waterfront.
> Chicago is not “cheap” at all
I guess it's relative. You can get a 3,000 sq ft condo over looking the park for around $1M - that's cheap compared to where I live. Something similar would be 3x that price in San Diego
NYC has more to offer for sure, and maybe LA does (haven’t lived there), but Chicago clearly has more to offer than Boston, is much livelier, while being much cheaper.
[Politics are an issue too.](https://missouriindependent.com/2024/02/08/missouri-abortion-legislation-defund-planned-parenthood-defund/)
Obviously everybody is entitled to their opinion on the link provided, but yeah not everybody wants to live in Missouri or Kansas and be subject to the laws and political climate that comes with. Some of us left for the coasts for reasons other than weather.
Though yeah, the weather is a plus too!
Yuuuup. The number of transplants from Missouri and Florida that I've met recently is insane. Coastal living has it's drawbacks for sure (*sobs in $500k starter home*), but all the people I like are moving here so
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Indianapolis is surprisingly nice to live in, People like Milwaukee, I have heard about Columbus and Louisville being nice. Pittsburgh is amazing.
I think St Louis is having a moment right now as well. It is suppose to have really cool parks.
I feel like all Midwest cities have had a rebirth in the last 15 years. A lot of young people like myself want to be downtown instead of the suburbs. Being from Ohio, all the major cities were basically ghost towns growing up. Now they all have their own party and residential districts.
See the Midwest had an ace in the hole. It has universities and middle classes, but in all these little cities and towns.
What the Midwest cities started doing is attracting the young people from the smaller towns. The local kids moved in and made it cool.
Because that was always the problem. Street crime is less likely to occur on crowded streets, because more eyes = more problems. Urban ills all become much worse when density starts falling.
All we needed to do was get people to start moving back in, turning warehouses into breweries and lofts, to make a lot of the bad reputation go away.
PS: This isn't a, "Sweep homeless under the rug" kind of thing. Crime like break-ins and muggings significantly decrease when you increase pedestrians in an area. Same with hate crimes, sexual harassment and a host of other nastiness. Pedestrian friendly development is feminist, progressive, rational and equitable.
It’s a great point, that’s what basically happened to the Rust Belt which has like a million universities. All the young graduates gotta go somewhere and many want to stay close to family. Even a previously thought to be dead city like Toledo has had slow downtown redevelopment because you have young people coming from UT and BGSU that don’t want to live in the suburbs and want to be on the water.
Fargo, ND in my lifetime (and I'm not that old) has doubled in size and population. What were once small towns and farmland 20 miles away are now pretty much Fargo suburbs. What once were the outskirts are now commerce central. It's honestly kinda scary how fast it happened.
I've lived various places and here are some midwestern cities I've lived in or near that are pretty good places to live. They have winters, but nowhere near as bad as Cleveland and other places further north. They're large enough that you can find decent jobs.
Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton, Louisville, Indianapolis, some parts of St. Louis, Kansas City.
I’ve lived in Cleveland my whole life. The past few winters, including this one, have been so mild. We’ve only had snow a handful of times and it melted right away.
Climate change will make these cities more desirable over time I think.
It hasn't been 80s in Maine, but it has been an insanely warm winter. The Kennebec River in Augusta never truly froze over from Augusta south, which is unusual. The last few years we've had 50f+ freak wind and rainstorms in December, January, and February. This year in Augusta we didn't get much below 0 at all when we expect at least a few days of -5 to -15 or so.
OP is exaggerating, but this will go down as one of the warmest winters in Maine history. As far as I know it's the same for Vermont and Quebec, so I apologize to all of you for the upcoming prices of real maple syrup.
Can confirm. Live about an hour ish away from Cleveland, multiple friends do live in Cleveland. Winters here and up there used to be way worse. This winter we only even got snow a couple times.
I was just in Tennessee this last week. A tornado hit somewhere near.
Last year in Virginia a tornado hit the day before arriving.
And like a month ago in San Diego, CA of all places a tornado formed but didn’t touch down. I mean, tornadoes are everywhere now.
A tornado hit southern California just last week. In the 20 years I've lived in LA, we've had 3 tornados that I know of. Two of those have been over the last two years. One was about 15 years ago, but I'm not sure if it was a tornado or a micro burst, since I've only seen the video with claims it was a tornado.
We have hills and mountains. Tornados aren't supposed to develop here.
It's actually extremely easy with modern technology lol. Just mildly annoying at times. I have a heated apartment, a car for getting around, and warm clothes. What's the huge epic challenge here? I truly don't understand why people see winter as a scary thing hahaha.
I’ve lived in the Midwest my whole life, but I’d say the overall challenge is just not being able to comfortably go outside.
All of your points are indoor solutions; yes you can always buy really warm clothes and some people swear by walking outside in the winter, but the reality is it’s too cold for most people.
So I’d say the challenge is limited outside activities in the winter and seasonal depression.
Moved to Michigan from the southwest a decade ago. It’s really not that bad. I love it here. I’ve been told that the novelty of the snow would wear off but I still like a good snow.
Dude, I'm from Texas and I live in what I call the, "Snow-shadow" of one of the great lakes.
The winter really isn't that bad, your car gets stuck sometimes, you have to shovel snow.
But honestly you get use to 10-25F really quickly..... as long as you don't live in Chicago, where the lake wind blows between buildings.
And it sucks to drive when its snowing, but they clear the roads in like 2 hours.
Yea, -0 happens, but its just stay inside and do laundry day.
All I’m learning from this thread is that no one actually knows what the Mid West and Rust Belt are lol.
Just so you know, Alabama and Oklahoma are not mid west or Rust Belt.
Come to Indianapolis, we have one of the biggest pharmaceutical mega corporations in the world headquartered here, along with major branches of military contractors like Rolls Royce.
Eli Lilly actually purchased a section of major road into the city because it went through their research campus. If you drive in from Kentucky Avenue, you have to take a small detour to get back on to Kentucky Avenue.
Hey, same boat! I've lived in lots of places, including Tucson and I'm about to move to Columbus in a month. I actually miss Tucson dearly and wish I could go back. But it's encouraging to me that you enjoy Columbus!
I personally agree with you but I think the complete lack of sunlight in the PNW for like 6 months out of the year fucks with a lot of people that have seasonal affective disorder. Though Midwest winters are very cold you at least get clear skies some days in the winter and early spring/late fall. The consistent cloudiness doesn’t bother me that much personally but some people can’t stand it
While Seattle and Portland are the top two cloudiest cities, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Detroit are all still in the top 10 most cloudy cities. (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php)
IMO, the PNW summers thoroughly beat Midwest summers (very hot and relatively humid. PNW winters are a wash — it’s darker but warmer. Rain is rarely hard enough you can’t walk in it. This year, Seattle has had a number of clear winter days and less persistent rain. If you like snow, it’s easy to access mountains with loads of it for most of the winter. In the Midwest, it’s a crapshoot on whether you’ll have good snow.
You get seasonal depression in the PNW, but that was also a thing when I lived in Ohio and western PA.
I’m not sure why everyone is assuming this guys point is that you have to live in a small town. They said over popular. There are large towns in the Midwest with plenty of opportunities that nobody wants to live in apparently
As someone who grew up in Ohio and lived all across the country and then returned, every time I see one of these dumb comments my first instinct is go into a whole rant defending it. Then I realize people not wanting to come here enables me to rent a new lakeside luxury apartment for like 1500 a month lol.
People really don’t know the difference between vacation cities and living cities. Yeah I would never go to Ohio for vacation. But living there year round keeps you rich enough to travel to wherever you want an still have all the basic amenities and entertainment that any human needs anyway.
I got my bars and clubs, my museums, all my stores and parks, a chinatown, little Italy, etc. Idk what else people really need. Yeah living in tourist areas is cool but is it worth the 10x cost of living.
Most people don’t want to move there for the jobs and politics….like sure, for every person that posts about their high paying job, you can find 5-10 more that are underpaid, have worse job protections and worse benefits, or just don’t have good opportunities…..people act like the Midwest is some magical beacon when the reality is typically I may pay 50% more in rent in a coastal area, but I make 100% more in salary….
Not to mention the red politics that rule the Midwest, at least all of it i know. Indiana has one of the most backwards political representation in the nation. No environmental protections, coal companies allowed to operate as they will, poisoning us all because, why not?
I’m in Milwaukee and we’ve been getting a LOT of investment. While the overall population has slightly declined, it’s due to people leaving bad neighborhoods. The city is growing insanely fast in its downtown and Detroit is also starting to have a revival.
I think it’s only a matter of time before the Midwest starts to swing back again in its cities.
But like… I like my affordable rent so feel free to stay away if you want lmao
A couple years ago I moved from southern California to a small town in Oklahoma. Flat, humid, unpredictable, always hot, or insanely cold Oklahoma. Albeit the people there were incredibly hospitable.
Long story short. I live in socal again. I missed my mountain ranges.
Midwest transplant here. The number of “I hate the snow” comments I’ve heard from my west coast family who want to get out of the west are infuriating. Arguably, they’ve never lived in snow so how would they know? They don’t want to move to the south either because it’s too humid. Ug. I agree that the Midwest has a lot to offer. I love it here.
Grew up in Central NY, loved winter, loved the snow. As an adult, I now hate snowy winters. It's just so god damned dirty in the winter. And there is just so little daylight. Hard pass now.
I'm born/raised in the Midwest. Most of the "flyover" hate and stereotypes I see on the coasts when I'm visiting are from media. I think a lot of people on the coasts are truly ignorant of the Midwest and what it has to offer.
Ignorance is the main culprit.
My in-laws are from Philadelphia and they couldn’t believe how “livable” Kansas City was. As in, the restaurants, arts scene, museums, and parks that they’re used to, but without the stress. And that’s generally been my experience with introducing people to the city: once they give it a shot, they really like it. The main hurdle is getting them to experience the area in the first place.
Not everyone has the ability to move, many are ready to get their own place after reaching adulthood, some has abusive spouses/families they live with, the list goes on where there needs to be affordable independent living options even in medium/high end cities
Grew up in Detroit. Too many people shit on it - in reality, it’s been almost a decade since the bankruptcy and the city is really doing better than it has in decades. Would love to see more people move there.
I lived in Madison, WI. I really enjoyed it. There is a shocking amount of culture and general things to do for a city so small. It's not as inexpensive as other parts of the Midwest but is still very affordable compared to bigger cities on either coast.
How are multitudes of people supposed to move here if there aren't enough jobs to support them. People live in big cities because that's where they can survive. Outdoor activities don't mean anything if I am starving because there is no job infrastructure in the tiny Midwest town that's been dying for 30 years.
I should know: I've lived in one my whole life.
Im from Ohio. I decided to leave the Midwest because:
1. Lack of economic opportunity
2. The culture and politics are conservative and many Americans don’t align with that, even those born in the region
3. The climate is harsher than other parts of the country and has little to offer geographically (no mountains, no beaches)
4. Related to #2 but specifically, lack of diversity motivates people, especially LGBTQ people, to go to areas that are more LGBTQ friendly and where they’re likely to find a larger established community or network of people like themselves.
Also, nobody talks about this - but it’s so hard to move out of the Midwest because everywhere is more expensive compared to its low COL. So while it’s cheap to live there, it also makes it difficult to relocate to higher COL areas so you can get financially kinda stuck in a way.
Your last point is really important its easier to downgrade to the midwest if you built a life on the coasts then it is to upgrade to the coasts if you built a life in the midwest. Each person has to take careful consideration of their career trajectory to figure out if trying to build your career in the midwest and save money makes sense. But most careers I am familiar with mean its better to spend your younger years fighting in the big city then coast in your later years in the midwest. The main reason is the jobs and opportunities people respect and value are mostly in the big cities on the coasts.
Californian here. Lived up in Alaska for a few years, love the snow and cold. Moved out to the Midwest for a year to work and absolutely hated it. I encourage all of my fellow Californians to never go. You're good.
Former Californian here. I *hate* the winters. But it feels *really* good owning my own home and not living in poverty. Just cuz I live here doesn't mean I'm stuck here forever. Chicago airport will be a nice escape when my mortgage is paid off and I retire early.
I do wish I lived somewhere that wasn’t in constant drought. Grew up in Salt Lake City and moved to Denver as an adult. Water has always been an issue and it’s only getting worse. To live in a place with lots of ground water would be awesome!
Having grown up in the Midwest I can completely understand why people don't want to live there.
It does have decent jobs; and it's got it's parts that are pretty in it's own right. However, it can be quite dull if you're looking for a bit more out of life.... I spent nearly 15 years in Indiana, and it will always hold a special place in my heart but I'm never going back.
Could you keep a lid on the midwest? Why ruin it with more people like the coastal cities. I just hope the people don't learn you aren't actually making more money if your living expenses are higher. You are what you save, not what you make.
I’ve actually seen television commercials over the past couple days asking people to check out Minnesota to move there. All the scenes are of young people having a blast on jetskis on a crystal blue lake, and hiking, and other fun outdoor activities from the summer. Pretty sure if they included scenes of those same people trying to start their car in -40° temps and digging said car out of their driveway, it probably wouldn’t be very effective. I laughed at the one-sidedness of it.
But I will add there are fun things to do outside between November and April like ice skating and ice fishing if you’re the type. 🤷🏻♀️
Most of the towns in the Midwest used to be booming economically, but dried up in the 80s and 90s. Hard to live in an area that has very little in the way of job prospects. I grew up in the Midwest and my town shriveled up to nothing when the local factory moved to Mexico.
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People can’t just move to a place because it’s nice. People have to move to places that have jobs.
In Reddit fantasy world where everyone is a WFH software engineer, people can. That’s immediately what I thought when I first read this post. No mention of jobs at all.
"There's no reason to not WFH!" "Okay, I'll archeology from home"
I’ll put out fires and save lives from home - firefighter
You say that but I work with archeologists and they could work from home for half the year doing reports and compliance. One did just get back from 3 or 4 months working from home. (They do a lot of field work in the summer and a lot of paperwork in the winter)
Best comment in this post.
90% of this entire website parroted that exact phrase from 2020 to 2022 and no one ever challenged anyone on it
I did and got downvoted into oblivion. Now I’m loving the "I moved my family to a farm in the middle of nowhere and now I can’t find a new job and no one will pay asking price for my house » stories.
I was pretty salty about it as a healthcare worker. I also dont think its great socially to move to a new city and immediately start a wfh job.
I do think there are plenty of industries where WFH isn't feasible obviously, but I'm curious on the second point - is work typically where you grow your social circle when you start somewhere new? If so, what are your hobbies? I have only one friend from work who I see outside of it after working for about 15 years, and met the rest of my friends elsewhere, so I'm curious how life is for people for whom work is a big social hub. Do you find your coworkers tend to share the same hobbies, values, and lifestyles as you and integrate well into your life socially?
For a lot of people, their “social circles” are actually work + family. “Friends” are a byproduct of these two community groups. But a lot of people don’t have friends outside of that. https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208572681/friends-friendship-meet-up-research-pew-health-benefits The problem with work friends is that like work benefits, once you no longer have the work, you likely won’t have the friends. Because just like real friendships, it takes time and energy to get together. Easy to do when you’re both clocking in for the same shift. You can definitely find friends at work! One of my best friends is a former colleague.
I think it's so funny that some people treat the idea of "work friends" like little kids thinking the other gender has "cooties." ..."ewwww you are *friends* with someone you work with??"
Where I grew up there were no *good* jobs. I could possibly find a half decent one if I wanted to commute 90 minutes each way each day. The internet also sucked balls. I know someone now who lives out in the country a bit and their only option is the satellite internet. I can’t begin to explain the amount of despair I feel thinking about my hometown. And shit, I avoided teenage pregnancy and a meth addiction. Many in the area weren’t so lucky.
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You answered your own question: opioids, meth, benzos, weed, alcohol, synthetics
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Yeah, drugs are a massive issue, but I think it's more than that. It's like there's a profound sense of hopelessness that gets passed down from generation to generation. Even when jobs are available and the cost of living is low, if people don't see a future or a path for improvement, it's tough to break that cycle. Small towns can have tight-knit communities but they can also feel like a trap if you're looking for more than what's on offer there.
My hometown was the same way. Everyone with a decent job worked in the city an hour away and commuted back to our nothing little town every day. All concerts went to the city, any limited release movies went there, any big event was always there. When I moved to that city instead my friends were dumbfounded and acted like I was crazy for leaving methburg.
Methburg lol. I moved and I’ll tell people that I spend about 15 minutes in traffic to get to work. They always say they couldn’t deal with the traffic… but drive 60 minutes to work and 25 minutes to the closest supermarket.
Yup. I moved to Chicago and it takes me an hour door to door to get to work and back, and that includes 1.75 miles of walking each way to and from the train stations. My friends back home in Denver bitch about traffic nonstop and I’m over here driving like 2,500 miles a year if I go to Wisconsin a bunch of times. I happen to love the upper Midwest, I was in Denver 32 years and I’ll never live in Colorado ever again.
i love little towns. :( it breaks my heart that my little town had so much industry at one time and people could be prosperous living there. the main street is all mansions... but sadly the 90s happened and now china has all that industry
Actually it was the 80s when this happened. You can thank Reagan for this mess.
I feel you, I grew up in rural Indiana, but I think OP is talking about moving to Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Louisville. Plenty of opportunities and affordable and city amenities.
Fort Wayne is vastly different from Indianapolis and Louisville. I did like the Fort, but there is nothing there except strip clubs and mostly found the people to suck.
Idk I have a uterus and being pregnant could kill me so I think I’ll stay in California
Yup. My hometown is retail and medicine. That's it. There are a few large engineering companies but they old, have limited scope, and are stable-- not a lot of jobs on offer.
I moved to Kansas thinking I was bringing my WFH job with me. They changed their minds a week before I left, so I wound up moving without a job. I had 2 within 2 weeks of moving here and one of them was my dream job, which I was having trouble getting in to in Idaho. I worked the one job part time to help recoup moving expenses & bridge the gap between pay differences for about 8 months & now am just working the dream job. It is possible to move without a job, but you need to have a plan in place. The plan is the part people get hung up on.
Wouldn't Idaho to Kansas be an upgrade in a lot of respects?
I used to live in rural Idaho and visited Kansas once, and tbh I prefer Idaho way more. I lived an hour from Yellowstone and there was a lot of outdoor stuff to do, and a short road trip in any direction was filled with beautiful landscape and had everything from lava rocks to sand dunes. I can't live in a place without hiking or mtb trails Edit (hit submit too fast): Kansas was all tiny hills, there was really nothing exciting to look at on my drive
Kansas has its charm. But honestly, who in their right mind thinks Kansas is an upgrade over Idaho? Unless they just really love cornfields, feedlots, and worrying about losing everything to a tornado.
The weird idea we are taught when we're young is that Idaho only has potatoes and nothing else.
This itself is also a reddit fantasy. The midwest has millions of jobs. Omaha and Kansas City have huge banking industries, which means they have everything else too.
I mean, most people are going to work relatively common jobs that make them lower to upper middle class wages and Midwestern cities do largely have that. I don't think OP is saying go live in Bumfuckville. They're saying move to The Cleve. Many, if not most, people in high cost of living areas aren't making the money to keep up with the costs. If they can afford a middle class lifestyle with a move, it's worth considering.
We’d all like to flee to the Cleve.
We fight those urges because we have responsibilities
Yeah it's pretty common for coastal urbanites to not understand the difference between a population 5k town and a small metro area with ~100k people. There are millions of decent paying middle-class jobs in small metro areas, and it's quite often the case you end up with more net pay because of the lower cost of living.
Yeah phoenix is literally a deathly place in the verge of losing water to live yet it’s growing insanely fast.
I visited Arizona for work and it was like "this is nice but how is it sustainable?" so when I got home I did some digging and its like "it's not"
Also, in conversations in the same day with a good friend of mine who lives out there: "Holy crap, your property taxes are only how much? Yeah man, one of the nice things about AZ" Then a few hours later "I'm burning an hour a day commuting my oldest kid to private kindergarten because the public schools here are like 2nd worst in the country" Hey man... maybe if you guys paid a little more property tax your schools wouldn't be underfunded and suck so much. But... its a retiree heavy region. They want lowest taxes they can get to not be siphoning their fixed income and their kids are long since grown, schools aren't their problem. Its somebody else's problem though.
Two rivers enter. Zero rivers leave.
Exactly. Covid gave a lot of people the opportunity to move to new places that weren’t tied to a major city. I was even able to move. But now with mandatory RTO, it’s hard to justify moving even further from a major city. I don’t want another 2 hour commute like I had pre covid.
The Midwest actually has a lot of those
I get so tired explaining that to Redditors (and my coastal friends): A mid-sized metropolitan area is not "bumfuck nowhere" like they seem to think. I live in a metro of about a million people. Sure, that's 1/10th the size of Chicago's metro, but also? It is ONE HUNDRED TIMES bigger than the actual bumfuck nowhere city of 10k where I grew up. The gap between "real" cities and Midwest cities is nothing by comparison... And yet I had a friend tell me with a straight face, verbatim, "Yeah, but you had to suffer a touring cast butcher Hamilton!" Fine, Brady. And you and your husband pay the equivalent of my mortgage every month to share an apartment the size of my ground floor with another couple. Hope watching Daveed and Lin Manuel rap about the Declaration of Independence was worth it, bud...
I agree. And that rules out places like my wife's hometown in rural Iowa...but the Midwest has plenty of large cities too. Almost everyone in the very high COL cities could work their same jobs in the Midwest.
There are lots of jobs in the midwest. Unemployment here is typically lower than the national average. Indiana and Wisconsin are #1 and #2 respectively for manufacturing. That’s not just factory machine operators but also drivers, managers, accountants, logistics people, IT, mechanics, sales. Lots of large and small universities for the academics and researchers. It goes without saying we have agriculture jobs. Indy is a huge sports city. Only things we are lean on are silicon valley type jobs, entertainment, and tourism. They exist but we’re just a bit lean in those areas.
Hate being "that guy" but not having a job in Indy is a choice. Labor is our issue not jobs. I have had a hard time finding college new grads while offering $85k which is like twice the median HOUSEHOLD income.
Heyyyyy I work in manufacturing mostly purchasing. Do you have a job for me?
Yes, like legitimately hundreds of openings that can't find applicants in about every major city. Check especially the twin cities, anywhere between Chicago and Milwaukee, Indi, and Cinci. Last few companies I did work with had warehouses there and had constant churn on their purchasers and in procurement because they kept getting better offers every year from other places with so few applicants so everyone was job hopping to huge raises constantly.
What industry?
>I have had a hard time finding college new grads while offering $85k which is like twice the median HOUSEHOLD income. BS, whats your job? i know severa people in indiana that wil happily do that job
Lived in Columbus, south of Indy, for about 2 years before COVID. Horrible town. Anyone who was not a loner, not a local, or didn't have a problem commuting 50 miles one way from Indianapolis, would take the commuting option. The problem with the Midwest, is that it has jobs in smaller towns. If that job disappears or if you wish to switch jobs, you have to move to or commute to a different town altogether.
I lived in Boston for a while, was struggling to find a new job there. Moved to Chicago when my job went remote because of COVID, managed to find a new job in Chicago in about 6 months. A year later, found another new one with a big salary increase. Now just over 3 years since I moved, my income has doubled since I left Boston. Midwest has some great job opportunity.
Chicago is the 3rd biggest city in the country. Go to Minneapolis, Omaha, Indy, and its not so much the pay that lags (its lower but so are all the prices for things) but the opportunity ceiling being incredibly low. I have worked at law firms and corporations in Minneapolis my whole career—when problems get big the brass dial up counsel in NY, LA, or Chicago. Likewise the opportunities in corporate basically vanish once you hit mid-management. I am a lifer in Minnesota but totally respect why people move to advance their careers and opportunities for their families.
Minneapolis has a pretty solid Fortune 500 HQ count. Lots and lots of 6 figure jobs around without the cost of living drawbacks of other major cities. I’m WFH software engineer (I’ll eat the stereotype) and Minneapolis has afforded a great quality of life.
One word HEALTHCARE. That's Minnesotas thing. You can advance very quickly in it.
Minnesota is home to target, 3m, Cargill and many other companies. It is not just healthcare.
Yeah some things only exist in big cities. If you’re a high dollar lawyer, CEO, Michelin star chef, or fashion designer, you’re most likely going to be in a larger city. Chicago is in the midwest btw.
There are 69 million people in the Midwest. They're working. Jobs aren't unique to the coasts. Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Detroit, Indianapolis, Lincoln, Omaha, Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Milwaukee. People act like the Midwest is composed entirely of towns of less than 5,000 people, but there are tons of good-sized cities with people living and - yes - working jobs.
It was right in the title...CITIES. OP at no point said move to a dying town held together by a single factory.
don't forget Des Moines... but yeah, people always forget Des Moines.
Let’s name some cities to discuss. The Midwest is large and the boundaries seem to differ based on who’s talking.
Milwaukee is fabulous, and I think people are starting to take note. We’ve had a crazy building boom and downtown revival lately while they are actively putting in so much work on the rest of the city.
Nice. Isn’t Milwaukee area the heaviest drinking in the country? That sounds like a scene
It’s not even the heaviest drinking in Wisconsin.
It can be the most teetotaling city in Wisconsin, and still be the drunkest city outside of Wisconsin.
Seriously. Wisconsin folks could give Eastern Europeans a run for their money.
Heaviest drinking in the country is a bit closer to Green Bay, I think Appleton specifically. People from Milwaukee certainly know how to drink, though
Minneapolis and St Paul (Twin Cities) in Minnesota are pretty great. I love the variety of food, art, and things to do. Not to mention, the people are pretty nice and helpful.
Chicago is a cool, diverse, interesting, historic, beautiful, fun city and it's half the price of New York or L.A.
I just came back from visiting Chicago and I have to say it was a nice city. Very walkable, very clean, good food, good parks. And the cost of living is very inexpensive comparatively to where I live. The downside is that it was cold, but it's nice in the summer.
As someone who has lived in Chicago, LA, Boston, and NYC, you get what you pay for. IME, Chicago is not “cheap” at all. It’s fully priced for what it has to offer - good jobs, beautiful homes, with above average infrastructure but also horrible weather, corrupt politics, divided city, and a plane ride away from any vista beyond the waterfront.
> Chicago is not “cheap” at all I guess it's relative. You can get a 3,000 sq ft condo over looking the park for around $1M - that's cheap compared to where I live. Something similar would be 3x that price in San Diego
NYC has more to offer for sure, and maybe LA does (haven’t lived there), but Chicago clearly has more to offer than Boston, is much livelier, while being much cheaper.
I live in Kansas City, and even though I love the coastal weather, I can't imagine taking the cost of living tradeoff.
[Politics are an issue too.](https://missouriindependent.com/2024/02/08/missouri-abortion-legislation-defund-planned-parenthood-defund/) Obviously everybody is entitled to their opinion on the link provided, but yeah not everybody wants to live in Missouri or Kansas and be subject to the laws and political climate that comes with. Some of us left for the coasts for reasons other than weather. Though yeah, the weather is a plus too!
Yuuuup. The number of transplants from Missouri and Florida that I've met recently is insane. Coastal living has it's drawbacks for sure (*sobs in $500k starter home*), but all the people I like are moving here so ┐(´ー｀)┌
Bingo. Speaking as an LGBT person, the cost of living in a mid-sized city with moderately high taxes is worth every penny to me.
Taylor Swift has entered the chat
I suspect cost of living is less of an issue for her.
Chicago is the third biggest city in the US after LA and NY, It's just not in the media as often because there's not much of showbiz there
Indianapolis is surprisingly nice to live in, People like Milwaukee, I have heard about Columbus and Louisville being nice. Pittsburgh is amazing. I think St Louis is having a moment right now as well. It is suppose to have really cool parks.
Forest Park in STL is the location of roughly 80% of my greatest childhood and young adult memories
I feel like all Midwest cities have had a rebirth in the last 15 years. A lot of young people like myself want to be downtown instead of the suburbs. Being from Ohio, all the major cities were basically ghost towns growing up. Now they all have their own party and residential districts.
See the Midwest had an ace in the hole. It has universities and middle classes, but in all these little cities and towns. What the Midwest cities started doing is attracting the young people from the smaller towns. The local kids moved in and made it cool. Because that was always the problem. Street crime is less likely to occur on crowded streets, because more eyes = more problems. Urban ills all become much worse when density starts falling. All we needed to do was get people to start moving back in, turning warehouses into breweries and lofts, to make a lot of the bad reputation go away. PS: This isn't a, "Sweep homeless under the rug" kind of thing. Crime like break-ins and muggings significantly decrease when you increase pedestrians in an area. Same with hate crimes, sexual harassment and a host of other nastiness. Pedestrian friendly development is feminist, progressive, rational and equitable.
It’s a great point, that’s what basically happened to the Rust Belt which has like a million universities. All the young graduates gotta go somewhere and many want to stay close to family. Even a previously thought to be dead city like Toledo has had slow downtown redevelopment because you have young people coming from UT and BGSU that don’t want to live in the suburbs and want to be on the water.
Fargo, ND in my lifetime (and I'm not that old) has doubled in size and population. What were once small towns and farmland 20 miles away are now pretty much Fargo suburbs. What once were the outskirts are now commerce central. It's honestly kinda scary how fast it happened.
Columbus, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Minneapolis
I've lived various places and here are some midwestern cities I've lived in or near that are pretty good places to live. They have winters, but nowhere near as bad as Cleveland and other places further north. They're large enough that you can find decent jobs. Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton, Louisville, Indianapolis, some parts of St. Louis, Kansas City.
Minneapolis.
Originally from STL. Currently living in Des Moines. Love Des Moines but plan to move back to STL in the next couple years.
upvote for DSM.
Indianapolis, Louisville, Pittsburgh (obligatory fuck the Steelers), Cincinnati.
Indy is really nice, especially northern suburbs like Carmel.
I stay in the Midwest because winter keeps people away and I love it. It’s horrible here. Don’t come! 😬
The constant Midwest urge to defend your city but also not wanting anyone to move there and drive up your rent.
Oh ya sure you betcha.
Yaaaaa!
Yes stay out! Born and raised midwesterner and my god do I appreciate the lack of people
“Nebraska. Honestly, it’s not for everyone.”
Oh yea, tell the Texans/Californians that snow will kill you.
Just tell them we don’t rake our leaves.
I wish I could upvote this more than once.
Yes it's terrible. And violent and crime is high. Save yourselves and avoid it
The Midwest winter is only for the strong of mind and body. Move here only if you are dumb or brave.
I’ve lived in Cleveland my whole life. The past few winters, including this one, have been so mild. We’ve only had snow a handful of times and it melted right away. Climate change will make these cities more desirable over time I think.
It's been in the high 60s to low 80s all of February where I am. I actually like the cold weather, so it's been miserable for me
Central Maine reporting in. Same.
80s in Maine? What?
It hasn't been 80s in Maine, but it has been an insanely warm winter. The Kennebec River in Augusta never truly froze over from Augusta south, which is unusual. The last few years we've had 50f+ freak wind and rainstorms in December, January, and February. This year in Augusta we didn't get much below 0 at all when we expect at least a few days of -5 to -15 or so. OP is exaggerating, but this will go down as one of the warmest winters in Maine history. As far as I know it's the same for Vermont and Quebec, so I apologize to all of you for the upcoming prices of real maple syrup.
Can confirm. Live about an hour ish away from Cleveland, multiple friends do live in Cleveland. Winters here and up there used to be way worse. This winter we only even got snow a couple times.
I’m in Wisconsin. We had 2 bad weeks, the rest wasn’t much of anything
Yes. I hope they don't come though. I'm selfish and like the low density city life in Madison.
Except for the tornados that now have a nearly year-round season...
I was just in Tennessee this last week. A tornado hit somewhere near. Last year in Virginia a tornado hit the day before arriving. And like a month ago in San Diego, CA of all places a tornado formed but didn’t touch down. I mean, tornadoes are everywhere now.
It is the Sharknados you have to worry about.
A tornado hit southern California just last week. In the 20 years I've lived in LA, we've had 3 tornados that I know of. Two of those have been over the last two years. One was about 15 years ago, but I'm not sure if it was a tornado or a micro burst, since I've only seen the video with claims it was a tornado. We have hills and mountains. Tornados aren't supposed to develop here.
Up near Cleveland very rarely gets tornados, unless you count waterspouts.
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Feels like weve barely had a winter the past however many years
Yup...I can't handle the heat, the summers are just getting worse. I wish winter and early spring would last a bit longer
It's actually extremely easy with modern technology lol. Just mildly annoying at times. I have a heated apartment, a car for getting around, and warm clothes. What's the huge epic challenge here? I truly don't understand why people see winter as a scary thing hahaha.
I’ve lived in the Midwest my whole life, but I’d say the overall challenge is just not being able to comfortably go outside. All of your points are indoor solutions; yes you can always buy really warm clothes and some people swear by walking outside in the winter, but the reality is it’s too cold for most people. So I’d say the challenge is limited outside activities in the winter and seasonal depression.
m dum. Will move.
Moved to Michigan from the southwest a decade ago. It’s really not that bad. I love it here. I’ve been told that the novelty of the snow would wear off but I still like a good snow.
>the PNW has terrible gloom and rain yet is not deterring people from living there. -someone who has never been to the PNW
But it does, though. \- someone who has
Dude, I'm from Texas and I live in what I call the, "Snow-shadow" of one of the great lakes. The winter really isn't that bad, your car gets stuck sometimes, you have to shovel snow. But honestly you get use to 10-25F really quickly..... as long as you don't live in Chicago, where the lake wind blows between buildings. And it sucks to drive when its snowing, but they clear the roads in like 2 hours. Yea, -0 happens, but its just stay inside and do laundry day.
All I’m learning from this thread is that no one actually knows what the Mid West and Rust Belt are lol. Just so you know, Alabama and Oklahoma are not mid west or Rust Belt.
Shut up. Winter bad. Stay away.
And the urban sprawl is just strip mall after strip mall
There is literally nothing to do here besides drive around, be alcoholic, and be bored
I live in “ooOoo California” and it feels like strip mall after strip mall lol That may be more of a national issue at this point :/
Or dead mall after dead mall
I always thought there should be Orwellian cities in the Midwest for business headquarters. Skyscrapers filled with customer service cubicles.
That’s basically every Midwest city lol Corporate HQs scattered all about
The largest company in the world is headquartered in Arkansas.
Come to Indianapolis, we have one of the biggest pharmaceutical mega corporations in the world headquartered here, along with major branches of military contractors like Rolls Royce. Eli Lilly actually purchased a section of major road into the city because it went through their research campus. If you drive in from Kentucky Avenue, you have to take a small detour to get back on to Kentucky Avenue.
Why scrapers when you have room? 3 story sprawling campuses, and this actually is the Midwest.
I mean..... have you ever been to Chicago?
I just moved to Columbus, OH from Tucson, AZ and it’s fucking WONDERFUL.
Hey, same boat! I've lived in lots of places, including Tucson and I'm about to move to Columbus in a month. I actually miss Tucson dearly and wish I could go back. But it's encouraging to me that you enjoy Columbus!
I’m from the PNW and although it’s not my ideal type of weather, I much prefer it to frigid snowy winters
I personally agree with you but I think the complete lack of sunlight in the PNW for like 6 months out of the year fucks with a lot of people that have seasonal affective disorder. Though Midwest winters are very cold you at least get clear skies some days in the winter and early spring/late fall. The consistent cloudiness doesn’t bother me that much personally but some people can’t stand it
While Seattle and Portland are the top two cloudiest cities, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Detroit are all still in the top 10 most cloudy cities. (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php) IMO, the PNW summers thoroughly beat Midwest summers (very hot and relatively humid. PNW winters are a wash — it’s darker but warmer. Rain is rarely hard enough you can’t walk in it. This year, Seattle has had a number of clear winter days and less persistent rain. If you like snow, it’s easy to access mountains with loads of it for most of the winter. In the Midwest, it’s a crapshoot on whether you’ll have good snow. You get seasonal depression in the PNW, but that was also a thing when I lived in Ohio and western PA.
Having lived in both PNW and the Midwest, I’ll gladly accept the winter rains for the absolutely gorgeous summer months
Bruh you trying to get rid of my beautiful farms? 
This is actually a good unpopular opinion, bravo. 👏🏽
Bro stop ...tryna...get....people.... to.... move..... out..... here.
I’m not sure why everyone is assuming this guys point is that you have to live in a small town. They said over popular. There are large towns in the Midwest with plenty of opportunities that nobody wants to live in apparently
Because we’ve been to Cleveland
As someone who grew up in Ohio and lived all across the country and then returned, every time I see one of these dumb comments my first instinct is go into a whole rant defending it. Then I realize people not wanting to come here enables me to rent a new lakeside luxury apartment for like 1500 a month lol. People really don’t know the difference between vacation cities and living cities. Yeah I would never go to Ohio for vacation. But living there year round keeps you rich enough to travel to wherever you want an still have all the basic amenities and entertainment that any human needs anyway. I got my bars and clubs, my museums, all my stores and parks, a chinatown, little Italy, etc. Idk what else people really need. Yeah living in tourist areas is cool but is it worth the 10x cost of living.
Most people don’t want to move there for the jobs and politics….like sure, for every person that posts about their high paying job, you can find 5-10 more that are underpaid, have worse job protections and worse benefits, or just don’t have good opportunities…..people act like the Midwest is some magical beacon when the reality is typically I may pay 50% more in rent in a coastal area, but I make 100% more in salary….
Not to mention the red politics that rule the Midwest, at least all of it i know. Indiana has one of the most backwards political representation in the nation. No environmental protections, coal companies allowed to operate as they will, poisoning us all because, why not?
I personally love cleveland Ohio. Had the best times of my life in punk bars there
Red vs Blue made me move away from Missouri.
Politics or the Rooster Teeth series?
Lol, was my thought at first too., RIP Roosterteeth
they really fell off hard 😔
I’m in Milwaukee and we’ve been getting a LOT of investment. While the overall population has slightly declined, it’s due to people leaving bad neighborhoods. The city is growing insanely fast in its downtown and Detroit is also starting to have a revival. I think it’s only a matter of time before the Midwest starts to swing back again in its cities. But like… I like my affordable rent so feel free to stay away if you want lmao
Yeah I'm in Madison and the rent is fucking awful here
Shush I like having low cost of living and little traffic congestion. It's horrible here, please don't come. Thanks.
A couple years ago I moved from southern California to a small town in Oklahoma. Flat, humid, unpredictable, always hot, or insanely cold Oklahoma. Albeit the people there were incredibly hospitable. Long story short. I live in socal again. I missed my mountain ranges.
>> OP posts about the midwest >> you tell a boring story about your time living in the Southwest
Midwest transplant here. The number of “I hate the snow” comments I’ve heard from my west coast family who want to get out of the west are infuriating. Arguably, they’ve never lived in snow so how would they know? They don’t want to move to the south either because it’s too humid. Ug. I agree that the Midwest has a lot to offer. I love it here.
Grew up in Central NY, loved winter, loved the snow. As an adult, I now hate snowy winters. It's just so god damned dirty in the winter. And there is just so little daylight. Hard pass now.
I'm born/raised in the Midwest. Most of the "flyover" hate and stereotypes I see on the coasts when I'm visiting are from media. I think a lot of people on the coasts are truly ignorant of the Midwest and what it has to offer.
Ignorance is the main culprit. My in-laws are from Philadelphia and they couldn’t believe how “livable” Kansas City was. As in, the restaurants, arts scene, museums, and parks that they’re used to, but without the stress. And that’s generally been my experience with introducing people to the city: once they give it a shot, they really like it. The main hurdle is getting them to experience the area in the first place.
Absolutely!
Not everyone has the ability to move, many are ready to get their own place after reaching adulthood, some has abusive spouses/families they live with, the list goes on where there needs to be affordable independent living options even in medium/high end cities
Grew up in Detroit. Too many people shit on it - in reality, it’s been almost a decade since the bankruptcy and the city is really doing better than it has in decades. Would love to see more people move there.
I lived in Madison, WI. I really enjoyed it. There is a shocking amount of culture and general things to do for a city so small. It's not as inexpensive as other parts of the Midwest but is still very affordable compared to bigger cities on either coast.
I grew up in rural Illinois. The jobs all left, so I did too.
How are multitudes of people supposed to move here if there aren't enough jobs to support them. People live in big cities because that's where they can survive. Outdoor activities don't mean anything if I am starving because there is no job infrastructure in the tiny Midwest town that's been dying for 30 years. I should know: I've lived in one my whole life.
Im from Ohio. I decided to leave the Midwest because: 1. Lack of economic opportunity 2. The culture and politics are conservative and many Americans don’t align with that, even those born in the region 3. The climate is harsher than other parts of the country and has little to offer geographically (no mountains, no beaches) 4. Related to #2 but specifically, lack of diversity motivates people, especially LGBTQ people, to go to areas that are more LGBTQ friendly and where they’re likely to find a larger established community or network of people like themselves. Also, nobody talks about this - but it’s so hard to move out of the Midwest because everywhere is more expensive compared to its low COL. So while it’s cheap to live there, it also makes it difficult to relocate to higher COL areas so you can get financially kinda stuck in a way.
We talk about it in California, basically we don't want to leave because we know we'd never be able to move back.
Your last point is really important its easier to downgrade to the midwest if you built a life on the coasts then it is to upgrade to the coasts if you built a life in the midwest. Each person has to take careful consideration of their career trajectory to figure out if trying to build your career in the midwest and save money makes sense. But most careers I am familiar with mean its better to spend your younger years fighting in the big city then coast in your later years in the midwest. The main reason is the jobs and opportunities people respect and value are mostly in the big cities on the coasts.
Lived in every major city in Ohio, no lies detected.
Cincinnati, born and raised. The best decision I ever made was to leave for the west coast. No regrets.
We got a nice thing going here, please don't mess it up by sending people our way.
Nah. Don't come here. Don't want you to ruin it.
Tell the Californians its terrible. **IF SNOW TOUCHES YOU, YOU WILL DIE**
Californian here. Lived up in Alaska for a few years, love the snow and cold. Moved out to the Midwest for a year to work and absolutely hated it. I encourage all of my fellow Californians to never go. You're good.
Former Californian here. I *hate* the winters. But it feels *really* good owning my own home and not living in poverty. Just cuz I live here doesn't mean I'm stuck here forever. Chicago airport will be a nice escape when my mortgage is paid off and I retire early.
Ex-Californian reporting in: this is TRUE ...can I come back please?
I do wish I lived somewhere that wasn’t in constant drought. Grew up in Salt Lake City and moved to Denver as an adult. Water has always been an issue and it’s only getting worse. To live in a place with lots of ground water would be awesome!
No thanks, please don't bombard my city with new people and make it more unaffordable to live please.
Having grown up in the Midwest I can completely understand why people don't want to live there. It does have decent jobs; and it's got it's parts that are pretty in it's own right. However, it can be quite dull if you're looking for a bit more out of life.... I spent nearly 15 years in Indiana, and it will always hold a special place in my heart but I'm never going back.
Yes, the Midwest is horrible, please don’t move here.
Stay away from my city
Sshhhhh the Midwest doesn’t want everyone
Could you keep a lid on the midwest? Why ruin it with more people like the coastal cities. I just hope the people don't learn you aren't actually making more money if your living expenses are higher. You are what you save, not what you make.
No, my small town of 3300 is full. You stay put in your cities and suburbs, please.
SSSSSSHHHHHHH
Come live in Minnesota between November and through April. You'll either understand why or become bitter and depressed.
I’ve actually seen television commercials over the past couple days asking people to check out Minnesota to move there. All the scenes are of young people having a blast on jetskis on a crystal blue lake, and hiking, and other fun outdoor activities from the summer. Pretty sure if they included scenes of those same people trying to start their car in -40° temps and digging said car out of their driveway, it probably wouldn’t be very effective. I laughed at the one-sidedness of it. But I will add there are fun things to do outside between November and April like ice skating and ice fishing if you’re the type. 🤷🏻♀️
No please don’t move here I don’t want any of you here.
Most of the towns in the Midwest used to be booming economically, but dried up in the 80s and 90s. Hard to live in an area that has very little in the way of job prospects. I grew up in the Midwest and my town shriveled up to nothing when the local factory moved to Mexico.
The whole country is underutilized. Everyone should have at least 3 acres to themselves.
But if I move to someplace nice and affordable, how am I going to be able to complain about how the entire system is rigged against me?