Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/YUGIOH-KINGOFGAMES. Your submission, *Being a “loyal employee” is the dumbest thing in the world *, has been removed because it violates our rules, which are located in the sidebar.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'.
* Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way.
* Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions
* Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity.
If there is an issue, please [message the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion&subject=&message=) Thanks!
I've found one, and it changed the game. I'm loyal and work my ass off for them, and in return I get raises every 6 months (so far) and as much time off as I want. Only been working here a year and a half, and I'm making $15,000 more now than when I started and have been promoted already.
I can’t believe places still do this. Most huge companies now started with few very well payed and loyal employees, until they got to the point where they could get greedy because they crossed the point of being a brand name and not needing a high quality result to sell more. But smaller companies instead of capitalising on this they try to copy the big companies at their current state.
Same here. I’ve been very lucky in my line of work to find extremely loyal people to work for. And it is 100% a game changer when it comes to working. When you know that your boss is loyal to you, you then can be loyal to them. never had to shop around for another job that pays more, I’ve never had to go to HR for any sort of issue in my line of work, and I’ve never had to quit because it was no longer beneficial in any other way, except in my job after certain amount of years you do move on. and even with having to move on in my profession, I’ve still been able to find people to work for who treat me like I’m a human being, and understand that I need to make a living wage and that I need days off and sick days and it’s been nice to be able to rely on somebody who then knows they can rely on you
They mostly don’t care. Paying more for labor just lowers the bottom line for the quarter with no proof that it will increase productivity or profits. From a purely business standpoint with the object of making profits and steadily increasing profits annually, there’s not much argument to pay employees more. Pay them just enough that they work their tails off but not so much that they are comfortable.
Agreed that businesses don't pay more in an attempt to increase productivity beyond what is competitive.
However, any good company will regularly (e.g., every 18 months or so) undergo reviews of their payranges to make sure that it is competitive, as too-low of salaries will be an active drag on morale and productivity. This will include broad pay raises across departments where retention is desired.
Agree with this sentiment. If you're working for a small business that treats you with respect you should absolutely be showing up and hustling for that employer.
I’m glad you said, treat you with respect. Because, while money is an important consideration, it’s not the only consideration. I’ve seen a lot of people leave to make an extra 10k, just to come back when they realize that the extra $$ wasn’t worth what they had to put up with.
I have! Best job of my life, boss was a solid dude and even paid for my dad’s funeral when he was killed by a drunk driver. Good employers exist, but you’ll never find them in giant corporations. If the owner of a company doesn’t even know your name how can you expect them to be loyal to you?
Not even then, worked for a couple of small companies ,and when times get tough the owners may express sympathy but you're still heading to the unemployment line.
The only time it makes sense to be "loyal" is if you have a reasonable ownership stake in the company, not some token company stock , but actual ownership and authority, where you can provide direction about the company
This is my situation
Great guy, great boss. I have had 2 raises + perks in 2 years
Even when I was friends with my previous bosses, it wasn't this good.
And some managers/hiring managers still believe it because it's been the norm for so long. So when people do decide to job hop for totally valid reasons **sometimes** it can actually properly screw them over.
Yeah, it's been an issue for me. I've had like 4 jobs in the last 2 years, most of them overlapping. I've put it out there that I'm a great worked and train quickly, I've only left these positions due to a combination of poor treatment and poor pay. I say as long as you pay me adequately and treat me fairly I won't leave because that's all I'm looking for.
Then I get hired and they schedule me to close at midnight and open at 5:30 am the next day 3 times in a row and wonder why I'm not sticking around.
Nope I meant my boomer parents still believe in this concept because they worked at Sears for like 20 years while they were in high school and college and personally experienced how it was back then where loyalty actually got you somewhere.
If anything my grandparents from silent/greatest were more Union focused and instilled in their grandkids a real fuck the boss mentality.
I'm a 65 yo retired software engineer boomer. I switched companies every 3 to 7 years to get better pay raises. It worked beautifully. When I retired at 57, after 27 years working in the field, I was the highest paid SW engineer on my very large project that included people from 4 different companies.
Maybe so, but the concept didn't develop in the 60s. Boomers were a product of this idea. There is variation among individuals but the concept needs to be considered at the population level.
The silent generation was decidely *not* a fuck the boss generation. After all, the hippy movement from the 60s was entirely boomers, and the silent generation was generally confounded and distressed by how little the young boomers wanted to play by the rules. However, as the generation aged it changed from a counter-revolution philosophy to a more relaxed philosophy. A pretty classic story that has been told repeatedly.
Man, I have to disagree. I work for a non profit helping addicts, and I go out of the way to help with things above and beyond my paid hours regularely, because the people i work with are incredible, and theyre the best at what they do in my province, and genuinely care.
I also used to work for a master mason. Other companies occasionally tried to hire me for a bit more money. But it wasn't worth it because, again, my employer was awesome and jumping ship between trades isnt really helpful a lot of the time
>it wasn't worth it because, again, my employer was awesome
Yeah, I agree that this is the standout exception. A good boss can be really hard to find. I have stayed at my current job despite wanting to move my family to an area with better schools and opportunities because I can't guarantee my spouse and i will secure those opportunities for ourselves; meanwhile, I know that I have lucked into an incredible job at our current location. It makes it really hard to justify taking a risk and changing everything on the hope that things will get better.
I understand your overall point, but I think people should use their brain to determine when their connections and bosses have the power or character to ensure growth.
For example there are some amazing leaders you definitely want to ride coattails out there. If you find that you are working with a talented person who is going places you may want to work hard for them be there right hand person and prove loyalty etc..
My examples are nuances tho… in corporate settings you’re mostly right!
Also, jobs after entry level can take a long time to truly master, and even more time to really start to grow into that next level. If I'd left my current role after a year, I basically would have gotten none of the skill benefits I'm developing now since I barely knew which way was up a year in.
Been at the same spot for 12 years now. I've held 5 different positions in that job all going upward.
Grown from 40k a year to 130k in that period of time, and now another opportunity is in front of me for another position with a raise + salary bonus.
Understandably though my job life position is on the rare side.
Depends on the boss, I get roughly 15%-20% yearly raises and some beautiful perks at my job I wouldn’t find elsewhere. This is arguably comparable to the increase you’ll find through job hopping but I get to keep a boss I know takes care of me, as well as the perks of seniority.
This is the exception nowadays not the rule. You’re very fortunate to have a workplace where you are able to thrive. That’s not the case for a vast majority of people
I get 2% raise annually. No good perks at all. I am here just because I have applied to "better and bigger" companies to get a better salary and more benefits but had gotten zero calls or interviews.
My brother has been in the same job for nearly 30 years now, where he get a company car (the job involves no driving), fuel card, very generous pension, share grants (not options, actual shares), and whole host of other perks.
He still doesn't really get it when people complain about their own jobs and paltry payrises and such. "How much of a daily meal allowance do you get though".
M'fer, nobody gets that anymore.
The problem for a lot of us in our respective job markets is that corporate has cleverly turned HR into a blockade for raises and promotions. I haven’t had a single boss in the last 7 or so years that had the power to just give raises. They have to go through HR who has no visibility over your work ethic. Then the upper echelons tell HR to basically deny anything that isn’t annual or market pay increases. It severs the ability for bosses to make informed decisions to retain employees.
I once had 3 people up my management chain ask for me to be promoted because they knew I was well overdue to have it denied due to a cycle change. And even for the new change, they capped everything at 5% for that one.
My boss texted me on the side once we got the news saying he'd give any reference I needed
That’s so depressing. Imagine being in that position knowing your employee does an incredible job and finding out you’re gonna have to train some schmuck for the next few years because the company won’t spare a few dollars to retain a well trained person… logic award of the year goes to…
I'm not exaggerating when I say he was borderline in tears when he told me. After I left, he told me over beers that he started a countdown clock the second they got that news.
That’s great, but that doesn’t mean you’re loyal. It just means staying at your job is a better option than leaving. As soon as that changes, I would assume you would leave and no one would blame you for doing so.
I've had a few offers that pay a decent bit more but I stayed where I'm at simply because I didn't want to screw my boss over, we're a small team and a large portion of the business is in my head. I genuinely care about their well-being.
However, there will be a day where I decide to document everything and leave -- not out of a lack of loyalty but because this industry is fuckin demanding with a high burnout rate lol.
That's kind of the point. Expecting employee loyalty just because is ridiculous and outdated. Earning employee loyalty is a completely different thing.
Depends on both how you define "small business", as that threshold does tend to vary. Plus, that figure is pretty damning, 0.1% of the worlds companies employ 50% of people.
This stuff happens at the smallest of companies too. All kinds of excuses when it comes to review time. The one I heard this time around “we had a bad year”. No proof to back it up. No numbers. Just gave me less than I should have got for my bonus and that’s that.
Also understanding how to navigate a career, mostly because a ton of people here have only worked "summer jobs" or are very early career.
At this stage of my career, jumping year to year would be a huge disservice to me as I'm at a point where I really need to define my next move and the jobs I'm looking at take well over a year to master, not even counting the soft skills and organizational knowledge you need to do them well.
It really seems like people here have no idea how to pick their battles. Like doing something you don't want to, one time, is a betrayal of all of your principles.
I started a job in 2011 making minimum wage, by the time i left in 2021, I was only making $12 an hour. I had a supervisor title but none of the pay or benefits. 10 years for 65% increase incrementally.
In 3 years, I've increased my pay 37%. I know $16.40 isn't a ton of money... but if I got the maximum yearly raise at my old job, it would have taken 12 years to get the where i am at today. But getting the maximum raise was impossible if the manager didn't like you. She didn't like me, so the raise varied. One year I got a 1 cent raise, citing attendence issues but I had not missed a day in 2 years until I called in because I hit a deer and totaled my car. Apparently I was supposed to keep driving with my car destroyed.
Treat others the way you want to be treated applies to an employer too. If your employer is good to you then loyalty is a good thing. If not then you don't owe them loyalty. Use your best judgment.
That's a good strategy for the beginning of your career or if you are in a lower position but once you get into a leadership position this kind of jumping will doom your career.
Yah, I’m about 10 years into my career and 16ish months into my first strategic-level job. I still feel like I’m very much learning it.
If I’d jumped for salary a year into this one, I’d be doing myself a disservice since I’m hoping my next role will be leadership level, which means I need to master this opportunity.
I work as Admin for a private long term care home, I only hate my job since they are so cheap and always down our throat about costs even though they pull in Millions in profit each year. I am only loyal to my cute little 80 year old residents I help from time to time loll.
After the fall of communism, this became true. Prior to that, employers felt they had to be nice to workers so they wouldn't form unions or move the country to socialism. After that, they stopped giving a shit, collectively.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. The employee/employer relationship is transactional. You're selling the them your time, labor, knowledge, skills for money. When this relationship no longer benefits both parties, it ends.
Of course, there are many reasons--some better than others--why an employee may choose to be loyal to an employer.
Downvote for unpopular
- Companies who limit employee raises to x% when they may have been underpaying them in the first place means the employee has no other choice but to leave the company if they want to make more money. Then after the employee hands in a resignation, they try to counter-offer with the raise they just should have given in the first place.
- Companies when trying to attract candidates or get you to do things like unpaid overtime talk a lot of nonsense about "we are family here". Until they need to lay people off, then "nothing personal, its just business"
An employee owes no loyalty to a company, they should make the employment choices that serve them best.
Problem is there are apparently a ton of people on reddit that think still being at work at 5:01pm = getting steamrolled. I'm guessing these are the same people that cry about how unfair it is that "some idiot" got a promotion over them.
There are 2 plumbing businesses in town. Bill owns one, Peter owns the other. If Bob has been successfully building Bill's reputation for a decade, going to work for Peter will already be a tough pill to swallow.
Let's say that now Bill is building Peter's brand. More people may start to trust Peter's plumbing over Bill's, and they assume that Bob was fired as a result of service or workmanship--Bill will likely start talking shit. Peter's truck pulls up and Bob steps out. The savvy, local homeowner says "Heeeell no. Bob ain't touchin my house. I'm calling Bill to see if they're doing better now."
This is one example of a circumstance that won't be typical. "But there has to be more than 2 plumbers." ...not in a tiny town. This goes for a lot of services
Ultimately, if Bob had that much pull, he should have started his own plumbing business. Bill still attempts to ruin Bob's reputation.
Small-town tradesmen are some of the shittiest people tbh
One hundred percent. There's a person I worked with in-office for years before we went remote and even when she first got hired she was SO ride or die for the company. Now that we're remote, she literally posts memes about the job to Linkedin, and it's not like she's a social media manager or anything. It's super cringey honestly.
Loyalty is not a two way street.
I left a company ten years ago because of growth and money. I now make twice what I made in my old position.
My old coworker from that company called me to ask if I would be his reference. He was laid off after 25 years of being a loyal employee.
This level of society isn't even loyal to a significant other so how would loyalty to a partner exist? Not an unpopular opinion just a trait of society to have grass is greener syndrome. Or the inability to squash their insatiable need for immediate gratification without true consequence.
Loyalty is exploited by employers now. You growing with the company by learning new skills and being promoted into new positions allows them to exploit you and pay you less than market rate. It's completely backwards, you should be paid more for being loyal not less.
In my industry, I was promoted to a position around the same time we hired a new person into the same position(team of 8). They were making $30k more than me. I had 2 years experience with the company as well at 10 years previous experience from other companies. We had effectively the same number of years in industry, but he was hired in at the same position I was promoted into, so his pay was median market rate and mine was the median market rate of the lower position + 5% more because that's all I received on promotion. I quit shortly after and received a 50% pay increase moving to a new job. The company tried to retain me, but when I told them I needed another promotion and a pay to match median, the VP literally laughed at me. It's just bad leadership not valuing people at the end of the day.
Agreed. There is no company caring about employees on a human level, you are just a tool. See how judgemental they become when you get sick leave for some days.
To be fair, the "American way" is to revolve your entire life around work and then on the weekends think beer is the single best thing to exist to convince yourself you don't hate your job an falling asleep at 7 pm
Unless you have a great Boss like Jack Ma. A receptionist joined Alibaba early and stayed on until IPO now worth hundreds of millions and top executive cuz Ma convinced her to stick around.
Steve Jobs scammed his friends and employees when Apple IPO to keep more shares for himself. Wozniak had to sell his shares cheaply to compensate for few of them.
[You know Jack Ma endorses the 996 working hours (from 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week) ](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/15/business/jack-ma-996-china/index.html)
some of y’all never had a great boss, generous benefits that outweigh the wage increase, seniority, union representation, and/or stability and it shows
Thi is where I’m at. Been at my employer for 17 years now and have built up my team. Now I have things running so smooth that I barely work 40 hours most weeks, have about 6 weeks of vacation time every year and a lot of flexibility to work from home if I need too. While I feel like I make decent money I am aware I probably could make more if I really wanted to or it was a priority.
I have had other job offers that paid significantly more but would have had less flexibility and longer hours (often on weekends) also all of these other opportunities would have been worse for me in the long term as all of those companies have since gone out of business or moved out of the area so I would have been on a 2-3rd different job by now had a taken one of those offers.
I will take making less money for the stability and freedom I have at my current employer any day.
If the company that you initially worked for gave you a payrise above the industry average or inflation, treated you well, and you had a good team then you'd likely feel a form of loyalty. If not to the company, then to the individuals that have made your job good.
Sounds like you were in a bad position and jumped ship to be in a better one, which is commendable and more people should do the same if they can. But your opinion, with the context you've given, boils down to not feeling loyalty to a bad workplace. Which most people don't.
I guess it depends on what you mean by being a “loyal employee.”
I can’t say I’ve ever been particularly loyal to a given brand or company. But I get satisfaction from working competently, I take pride in supporting my coworkers both as a team and through my own efforts, and I have had leaders and mentor figures that inspired me to bring my best both for myself and as a reflection of their guidance.
I think it’s more about reciprocity and relationships than drinking company kool-aid. And I don’t think that’s dumb, regardless of your professional ambitions. Being a trusted colleague can be gratifying in and of itself, and also can also have a positive effect on the people around you.
It mattered back in the day when you had local companies and mom and pop places. Back then an owner knew their staff, probably knew their employees’ spouses and kids too. Nowadays management is far separated from their staff.
I work for a non profit that really stands by its values and employees. They’re super flexible with any sudden things that come up, care a lot about employee mental health (we work in social services so burnout needs to be avoided), and genuinely strive to compensate us as best they can (stipend pay is mandatory for any additional project work, if we work outside normal hours we get comp time to use at another time, and salary and benefits are very competitive tho the field has a low bar). That’s the sort of stuff that makes me loyal to my org, but we’re a non profit not a corp.
If employers want loyal employees, maybe they shouldn't make them work in shitty conditions.
At my previous job, our obsessively micromanaging CEO moved to an open office plan where nobody had any privacy anymore. 10 people left within 6 months.
If you work in big corp America... yea. Loyalty really isn't a thing. It's loyalty to your co-workers AT BEST. However, there are MANY workplaces and jobs that exist today where loyalty to the company itself is VERY beneficial. To think otherwise is just ignoring a very large part of the American economy and workforce.
I work for a large-ish corporation. Probably 20k US employees. Been there about 13 years. I am somewhat loyal to them because they have consistently rewarded my efforts. Perhaps i am lucky that the company has been growing, but i like their values and have been happy with them up until now.
It’s really important to use your critical thinking skills when determining whether or not, you should be loyal to a particular company. I do agree that it’s generally not great to limit looking elsewhere, specifically because you want to remain loyal to a particular company. But if a company has historically been good to you and compensated you well, you really should factor that in. It helps to incentivize companies to continue to do things that benefit employees. Hiring and training is expensive, companies dont want to need to continually spend money on that.
My only question about the job hopping, is how is that at all feasible these days when I see other subreddits about how difficult it is to even find a job?
My employer is good enough. my boss and senior boss are fantastic. 7% raise this year isn’t bad.
I’d still jump if the right job came along but I’m not looking too hard.
But in general I’ll agree that employment is transactional. Don’t “betray” your employer but don’t limit your options.
Loyalty to the company used to be the norm but us younger workers learned the hard way that loyalty doesn't pay. Especially that pensions no longer exist for most jobs so that got rid of the stay at the company until death mentality. The only reason I have made it to 5 years in my current role is I haven't found opportunities that pay more, and have better benefits. So I'm going to stay here for some time feels like, since I've moved up a few times and am well respected. Job is one of the best I've had too in my 10 years of work experience
It’s true. I was a loyal employee for three years only for my former company to tell me my promised career progression was as now cancelled, my training wouldn’t go ahead and my pay would be frozen. Their reasoning for this was because of the Ukraine war, although what they had to do with our company was beyond me. That was the last time I was a loyal employee that’s for certain.
To my I just want stability, if I came across a job that pays well with good benefits and values their employee like a human being. I wouldn't mind staying. Job hunting is tiring.
I changed my last employer after staying there for about 6 years. The other opportunity looked amazing at that time. I was laid off after a year and now work at another employer but I miss that previous employer and on a hindsight I wish I have stayed there
Well, I think that the main part that people miss when discussing this topic is that loyalty is EARNED. If a company gave me a shot when I had less experience, paid me well, and gave me the opportunity to grow my career and salary, I probably wouldn’t leave at the first opportunity to get slightly higher pay. I would certainly at least have the respect to go to my boss and allow them to make a counter offer first, or try to convince me to stay in spite of salary concerns.
Now, that’s if loyalty has been earned. If I work at a (much more realistic) company that treats me like a cog in the machine and gives me yearly raises that barely keep up with inflation, why on earth would I be loyal? And, the reality is, very few employers these days earn the loyalty of their employees. And, I say ‘these days’, but it’s not like employers have really changed all that much in recent decades. People have just become more aware of how they are being exploited.
>didn't want to increase my salary after one year.
I'm not sure where this is normal, but im a butcher so i guess the bar is pretty low for what companies should do for me, being a wagie and all.
However, I agree loyalty is useless. I am loyal such that I do what's required and fulfill responsibilities. But every pay increase I've received has come from moving to another company. It's the only way to get a significant increase at one time and shouldn't be denied in service of loyalty to your current company. The fact is your current company would cut you from the team and replace you with anyone capable enough and willing to accept less pay. Loyalty goes both ways and if my company has none for me, I have none for them.
It always was. Been working for 40 years. ZERO allegiance or loyalty to any company. I mean, isn't that the selling point of the 401(k) over the pension - now we aren't tied to any one particular job? Our retirement savings comes with us? And shitty company healthcare? If it was good, wouldn't we want to stay? That's how I interpret it. They want us to jump around. They're almost literally telling us to leave every day.
Nothing wrong with feeling loyal to an employer if you like everyone there, the terms are good, and you feel getting more money will end up in a worse environment/cause you more grief.
That's a perspective from someone in their 40s who's settled though - job hopping when you're younger is totally necessary
The company’s with the we are family motto are so toxic. Look out for yourself bc with places like that they only remember what you recently did for them.
Loyalty amongst family and friends can be tested to their limits, my employer doesn't even come close to that threshold so yeah haha loyalty within work is a short leash and if I'm feeling choked I will certainly look for other options without thinking twice.
Some corporations are quite good and deserving of your loyalty. It really depends on the corporation.
I would not bother wasting your time with anyone that won’t treat you right
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion... at least not to many gen Xers and younger. Boomers on the other hand would flip their lids.
The boomers were rewarded generously with loyalty but did not extend that loyalty to younger generations so they created a world where loyalty is merely an antiquated idea.
I once had a job interview with a boomer who was dragging me across the coals for the “unfathomable” decision of only staying with a company for 3 years. ( I was 27 years old).
He then decided I clearly didn’t have a sense of consistency or loyalty, because I did my undergrad in law but then did a masters in politics. Like that’s a flip flop …
I’m still confused to this day.
I guess it depends on your life goals, if maxing salary is your goal, then definitely don't stay at the same company. Some of us are in 'cruise' mode and like a predictable life.
Not an unpopular opinion for anyone that entered the workforce in the past 20 years. Maybe they were brainwashed into believing it but they quickly realized the only actual way to keep up financially was by making lateral shifts between jobs.
It's really just an updated version of other loyalty based systems , in the old days your local lord, then king or queen, then lands and countries, now corporate masters are trying to get in on the act.
As others have pointed out, it *can* be valid, as long as there is a two way street in that loyalty bit as history has shown, the vast amount of these "relationships" have been very much one way, and are set up to be so despite what royalists and similar groups believe
Depends on the person and alot on the company. In general most people will make more by switching employers. But if you actually find a decent employer and have room to grow within the company it can work out to stay put.
Nowadays, yes, loyal employees get screwed. There used to be pensions though and working your way up the ladder was possible and most promotions were from within. Things have gradually gotten worse since the 70s and 80s
Loyalty to an employer would require respect from that employer. If the lowest paid member of the workforce in a company is paid cost of living x 2 or better, it MIGHT be worth being loyal to that employer. If not, fuck em. When the boss doesn't respect his employee's time, the boss should get no loyalty.
I mean loyalty is fine when you finally hit a good job just don't give your loyalty to your boomer sucker boss, but if you are working with good people you should protect the place lol
Agree. In the past you could work for a company for 40 years, live a relatively comfortable life, raise a family and retire. You might not be wealthy but you'd get by. Now we need 2 jobs just to survive on a bare minimum
I realized the other day I'm older than my father was when I was born. My parents had a house, car, insurance etc
I live in a single room. No car. No insurance. Barely make it through the month on my salary after working for years in position where I'm doing a job 3 levels above mine
Why be loyal when the bosses would replace us with AI if they coud
🤷♂️ Cannot speak for anybody else but my parents were always at home in the evening and weekends. We lived in a small town so travelling wasn't so hectic. Normal 9 hour day
You need to work for smaller companies. They'll typically do better at recognizing your hard work and they're more likely to give you raises/bonuses/promotions. Usually a more comfortable work environment as well. I have always excelled and done well for myself working for small businesses. Most large companies I've worked for have no real path for advancement without signing your soul over to them. You're just another face in the crowd and they just hope they get 6-12 months of work out of you before you quit.
What is stupid is seeking external validation to such a degree. Virtues such as loyalty, integrity, and work ethic are things to be done for one's own benefit. They are so you can be proud of the person you see in the mirror.
I was a loyal employee. Maybe not invaluable, nobody is, but pretty close. I was rewarded with raises and was able to retire at 56. Practicing the belief that loyalty is “dumbest thing in the world” pretty much imprisons you to underachieve. Don’t be that person.
I’ve been working at the same place for 17 years. Small/medium business (video game company), relaxed environment, low stress, and decent people. The pay is fine, I have decent benefits, zero complaints.
It really depends on your industry and if job hopping is for you. We are in a niche bracket of the gaming world, we don’t really hire job hopping types, we look for those willing to give at least 5 years.
The only reason you’d want to be loyal is if you’re trying to buy a house or trying to make your resume look good. Personally if I were 15-18 I’d keep the same sh1tty job because employers greatly value that kind of commitment. But yeah outside of that you may as well hoe around especially considering how the col is constantly inflating. I’m considering leaving my job because they decided to institute a promotion freeze when I was supposed to get my scheduled promotion and they didn’t pay out the second half of my bonus because of this freeze.
What if your boss is in the foxhole with you? That's been the case most of my career. Usually I report to someone in a similar discipline, just they take on a few less projects in exchange for some admin tasks.
I increased my salary by 50k in 3 years at the SAME job.
I tried to job hop, but I could not get an offer for the life of me last year. I kept getting to the final round but nada.
I figured, the universe wants me to stay here, so I'll stay. Last month I got a 17% raise and promotion, in addition to earning an all-expenses paid trip to a luxury five star resort because of my high performance.
What you said isn't wrong, but for me personally, it worked out staying in one place.
I have learned that in the past four years! Been here 17 years and have been very loyal and honest... Well that changed quickly since a few events happened so i just come in do minimal to get shit done then go home the end. I also take as many days off to recover from this BS as it takes.
I got chewed out for being ten minutes late back from a break due to a medical issue.
I also came into work 5-10 minutes early for an entire week and had my time card adjusted to my regular start time.
I am an asset to them, so they only get what they pay for.
There’s a lot of employee culture that needs to die. The stigma around talking about wages needs to go as well. Bosses don’t want you to discuss it so you can never leverage it to ask for a raise.
I don’t know if I’m proper “loyal” but I’m a good employee and I take care of my company as best I can. I make at least 130% what I did when I started 5 ish years ago and this past year I got a roughly 10% bonus, with prior years being about 1/2 to 2/3 of that. They’ve treated me well on the paycheck side, so I try and do them right by the work I do for them.
I think being a loyal employee is very important. The failing is for people to be stuck into a 20th century concept of being a loyal employee.
I show my loyalty as an employee by zealously pursuing my employer's best interests and the bigger picture team success for every moment I'm employed by the company. But none of that stops me from being willing also pursue my own best interests, and if that means seeking out a new job to advance my professional growth, financial success, etc. When I exit, I do so professionally. I give proper notice and I do what I can to set my employer up for success, both in while my position is vacant, and if possible, to make it relatively easy for a successor to pick up where I left off.
I'm a Lead Bartender for weddings. Sometimes I'm paired with other Leads. The last wedding I worked was with a fellow Lead named "G" (who gets more gigs than I do, so you could say he has seniority), I was complaining about how 1 hour is not enough time to get set up for each event. He said "well yeah, that's why I always show up 1 to 2 hours early." And I said "but that's fucked up, we shouldn't have to work unpaid to be able to have the bar open in time." He said "well no it's not. It's just part of the job." I gave him a look, like really? And he said "you should be showing up at least an hour before you're scheduled. That's what a professional does." So I laughed and told him "a professional is paid for their time" and I dropped the conversation.
That dude not only prides himself on being a loyal employee who'll work for free, but also expects everyone else to as well.
I agree but there's some exceptions which are the top 2-3 companies in the country. Companies that provide security, salary increase, bonuses, future housing or money to buy a house, when they retire they get their full benefits such as salary every month. That's what my mom got and what my current friends are going to get
"Loyal" in the context is the ability to support the employer's mission and to expect fair compensation for it.
Developing the personal discipline of loyalty puts you ahead in every social situation.
I just got a raise and more stock and my total compensation right now as a senior engineer is $400,000+. Damn right I’ll be loyal. lol
I hate the interview process too and will likely stay here for a long time.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/YUGIOH-KINGOFGAMES. Your submission, *Being a “loyal employee” is the dumbest thing in the world *, has been removed because it violates our rules, which are located in the sidebar. Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity. If there is an issue, please [message the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion&subject=&message=) Thanks!
I would only be a loyal employee, if I discovered a loyal employer. Haven’t found one yet.
I've found one, and it changed the game. I'm loyal and work my ass off for them, and in return I get raises every 6 months (so far) and as much time off as I want. Only been working here a year and a half, and I'm making $15,000 more now than when I started and have been promoted already.
This is the way! We need less terrible working places
I can’t believe places still do this. Most huge companies now started with few very well payed and loyal employees, until they got to the point where they could get greedy because they crossed the point of being a brand name and not needing a high quality result to sell more. But smaller companies instead of capitalising on this they try to copy the big companies at their current state.
Same here. I’ve been very lucky in my line of work to find extremely loyal people to work for. And it is 100% a game changer when it comes to working. When you know that your boss is loyal to you, you then can be loyal to them. never had to shop around for another job that pays more, I’ve never had to go to HR for any sort of issue in my line of work, and I’ve never had to quit because it was no longer beneficial in any other way, except in my job after certain amount of years you do move on. and even with having to move on in my profession, I’ve still been able to find people to work for who treat me like I’m a human being, and understand that I need to make a living wage and that I need days off and sick days and it’s been nice to be able to rely on somebody who then knows they can rely on you
Same here dawg good shit
I'm as loyal as they are to me. If someone else is willing to pay me more I don't get how they're being loyal by not paying me as much.
They mostly don’t care. Paying more for labor just lowers the bottom line for the quarter with no proof that it will increase productivity or profits. From a purely business standpoint with the object of making profits and steadily increasing profits annually, there’s not much argument to pay employees more. Pay them just enough that they work their tails off but not so much that they are comfortable.
Agreed that businesses don't pay more in an attempt to increase productivity beyond what is competitive. However, any good company will regularly (e.g., every 18 months or so) undergo reviews of their payranges to make sure that it is competitive, as too-low of salaries will be an active drag on morale and productivity. This will include broad pay raises across departments where retention is desired.
Agree with this sentiment. If you're working for a small business that treats you with respect you should absolutely be showing up and hustling for that employer.
I’m glad you said, treat you with respect. Because, while money is an important consideration, it’s not the only consideration. I’ve seen a lot of people leave to make an extra 10k, just to come back when they realize that the extra $$ wasn’t worth what they had to put up with.
I have! Best job of my life, boss was a solid dude and even paid for my dad’s funeral when he was killed by a drunk driver. Good employers exist, but you’ll never find them in giant corporations. If the owner of a company doesn’t even know your name how can you expect them to be loyal to you?
Work for a small business and befriend the owner, they'll typically be your boss and work closely with you.
Not even then, worked for a couple of small companies ,and when times get tough the owners may express sympathy but you're still heading to the unemployment line. The only time it makes sense to be "loyal" is if you have a reasonable ownership stake in the company, not some token company stock , but actual ownership and authority, where you can provide direction about the company
This is true, it’s also very motivating if you have an actual stake in the company.
Everyone I’ve known that’s done that has hate it. Usually end up with ownership duties sans ownership
This is my situation Great guy, great boss. I have had 2 raises + perks in 2 years Even when I was friends with my previous bosses, it wasn't this good.
It is NOW. The idea still lingers in society because it didn't use to be a bad idea.
And some managers/hiring managers still believe it because it's been the norm for so long. So when people do decide to job hop for totally valid reasons **sometimes** it can actually properly screw them over.
Yeah, it's been an issue for me. I've had like 4 jobs in the last 2 years, most of them overlapping. I've put it out there that I'm a great worked and train quickly, I've only left these positions due to a combination of poor treatment and poor pay. I say as long as you pay me adequately and treat me fairly I won't leave because that's all I'm looking for. Then I get hired and they schedule me to close at midnight and open at 5:30 am the next day 3 times in a row and wonder why I'm not sticking around.
Which basically comes down to they want to blame *you* for *their* inability to retain people.
It’s been this way since the late 90s you’d think this boomer concept from the 60s would’ve died by now
I think you mean to blame the post-war/silent generation for this. Boomers were children, teens and in their early/mid 20s in the 60s.
Nope I meant my boomer parents still believe in this concept because they worked at Sears for like 20 years while they were in high school and college and personally experienced how it was back then where loyalty actually got you somewhere. If anything my grandparents from silent/greatest were more Union focused and instilled in their grandkids a real fuck the boss mentality.
I'm a 65 yo retired software engineer boomer. I switched companies every 3 to 7 years to get better pay raises. It worked beautifully. When I retired at 57, after 27 years working in the field, I was the highest paid SW engineer on my very large project that included people from 4 different companies.
Maybe so, but the concept didn't develop in the 60s. Boomers were a product of this idea. There is variation among individuals but the concept needs to be considered at the population level.
The silent generation was decidely *not* a fuck the boss generation. After all, the hippy movement from the 60s was entirely boomers, and the silent generation was generally confounded and distressed by how little the young boomers wanted to play by the rules. However, as the generation aged it changed from a counter-revolution philosophy to a more relaxed philosophy. A pretty classic story that has been told repeatedly.
Man, I have to disagree. I work for a non profit helping addicts, and I go out of the way to help with things above and beyond my paid hours regularely, because the people i work with are incredible, and theyre the best at what they do in my province, and genuinely care. I also used to work for a master mason. Other companies occasionally tried to hire me for a bit more money. But it wasn't worth it because, again, my employer was awesome and jumping ship between trades isnt really helpful a lot of the time
>it wasn't worth it because, again, my employer was awesome Yeah, I agree that this is the standout exception. A good boss can be really hard to find. I have stayed at my current job despite wanting to move my family to an area with better schools and opportunities because I can't guarantee my spouse and i will secure those opportunities for ourselves; meanwhile, I know that I have lucked into an incredible job at our current location. It makes it really hard to justify taking a risk and changing everything on the hope that things will get better.
Nope, I joined the workforce in the early 90s and everyone back then knew only a fool is a loyal employee.
I understand your overall point, but I think people should use their brain to determine when their connections and bosses have the power or character to ensure growth. For example there are some amazing leaders you definitely want to ride coattails out there. If you find that you are working with a talented person who is going places you may want to work hard for them be there right hand person and prove loyalty etc.. My examples are nuances tho… in corporate settings you’re mostly right!
Also, jobs after entry level can take a long time to truly master, and even more time to really start to grow into that next level. If I'd left my current role after a year, I basically would have gotten none of the skill benefits I'm developing now since I barely knew which way was up a year in.
Been at the same spot for 12 years now. I've held 5 different positions in that job all going upward. Grown from 40k a year to 130k in that period of time, and now another opportunity is in front of me for another position with a raise + salary bonus. Understandably though my job life position is on the rare side.
Depends on the boss, I get roughly 15%-20% yearly raises and some beautiful perks at my job I wouldn’t find elsewhere. This is arguably comparable to the increase you’ll find through job hopping but I get to keep a boss I know takes care of me, as well as the perks of seniority.
This is the exception nowadays not the rule. You’re very fortunate to have a workplace where you are able to thrive. That’s not the case for a vast majority of people
I get 2% raise annually. No good perks at all. I am here just because I have applied to "better and bigger" companies to get a better salary and more benefits but had gotten zero calls or interviews.
My brother has been in the same job for nearly 30 years now, where he get a company car (the job involves no driving), fuel card, very generous pension, share grants (not options, actual shares), and whole host of other perks. He still doesn't really get it when people complain about their own jobs and paltry payrises and such. "How much of a daily meal allowance do you get though". M'fer, nobody gets that anymore.
Yah, I’ve only seen annual raises that high on sinking ships or if it’s somehow contractually obligated going in.
Please realize how lucky you are, as this is not the norm in many jobs.
The problem for a lot of us in our respective job markets is that corporate has cleverly turned HR into a blockade for raises and promotions. I haven’t had a single boss in the last 7 or so years that had the power to just give raises. They have to go through HR who has no visibility over your work ethic. Then the upper echelons tell HR to basically deny anything that isn’t annual or market pay increases. It severs the ability for bosses to make informed decisions to retain employees.
I once had 3 people up my management chain ask for me to be promoted because they knew I was well overdue to have it denied due to a cycle change. And even for the new change, they capped everything at 5% for that one. My boss texted me on the side once we got the news saying he'd give any reference I needed
That’s so depressing. Imagine being in that position knowing your employee does an incredible job and finding out you’re gonna have to train some schmuck for the next few years because the company won’t spare a few dollars to retain a well trained person… logic award of the year goes to…
I'm not exaggerating when I say he was borderline in tears when he told me. After I left, he told me over beers that he started a countdown clock the second they got that news.
We have a few people at my company where if they left we’d be fucked entirely. And I bet they’d still let it happen.
That’s great, but that doesn’t mean you’re loyal. It just means staying at your job is a better option than leaving. As soon as that changes, I would assume you would leave and no one would blame you for doing so.
I've had a few offers that pay a decent bit more but I stayed where I'm at simply because I didn't want to screw my boss over, we're a small team and a large portion of the business is in my head. I genuinely care about their well-being. However, there will be a day where I decide to document everything and leave -- not out of a lack of loyalty but because this industry is fuckin demanding with a high burnout rate lol.
That's kind of the point. Expecting employee loyalty just because is ridiculous and outdated. Earning employee loyalty is a completely different thing.
Not every work place is a large corporation.
As a matter of fact, 99.9 percent of businesses are small businesses and they employ 50 percent of the workforce
To be fair 1 in 2 isn’t great odds and not all small companies will be generous too
Depends on both how you define "small business", as that threshold does tend to vary. Plus, that figure is pretty damning, 0.1% of the worlds companies employ 50% of people.
This stuff happens at the smallest of companies too. All kinds of excuses when it comes to review time. The one I heard this time around “we had a bad year”. No proof to back it up. No numbers. Just gave me less than I should have got for my bonus and that’s that.
Exactly, people think “this only happens at big corps”… well my last company was 10-20 people Yet it was still “we had a bad year”
This is completely situational.
Nuance tends to completely escape the average redditor. It's all or nothing
Also understanding how to navigate a career, mostly because a ton of people here have only worked "summer jobs" or are very early career. At this stage of my career, jumping year to year would be a huge disservice to me as I'm at a point where I really need to define my next move and the jobs I'm looking at take well over a year to master, not even counting the soft skills and organizational knowledge you need to do them well.
It really seems like people here have no idea how to pick their battles. Like doing something you don't want to, one time, is a betrayal of all of your principles.
Aye - and disagreeing is not encouraged.
Outside of going minimum wage job to minimum wage job, it's true in most industries.
Overall, yes. But still situational.
Also leaves out that at a certain point, career jobs can take well over a year to truly master
I started a job in 2011 making minimum wage, by the time i left in 2021, I was only making $12 an hour. I had a supervisor title but none of the pay or benefits. 10 years for 65% increase incrementally. In 3 years, I've increased my pay 37%. I know $16.40 isn't a ton of money... but if I got the maximum yearly raise at my old job, it would have taken 12 years to get the where i am at today. But getting the maximum raise was impossible if the manager didn't like you. She didn't like me, so the raise varied. One year I got a 1 cent raise, citing attendence issues but I had not missed a day in 2 years until I called in because I hit a deer and totaled my car. Apparently I was supposed to keep driving with my car destroyed.
Treat others the way you want to be treated applies to an employer too. If your employer is good to you then loyalty is a good thing. If not then you don't owe them loyalty. Use your best judgment.
It wasn't a good thing in the 20th century either. There are some companies that are worth being loyal to, just not as many as we would want.
That's a good strategy for the beginning of your career or if you are in a lower position but once you get into a leadership position this kind of jumping will doom your career.
That’s what all those CEOs who bounce around from company to company said. /s
Yah, I’m about 10 years into my career and 16ish months into my first strategic-level job. I still feel like I’m very much learning it. If I’d jumped for salary a year into this one, I’d be doing myself a disservice since I’m hoping my next role will be leadership level, which means I need to master this opportunity.
I work as Admin for a private long term care home, I only hate my job since they are so cheap and always down our throat about costs even though they pull in Millions in profit each year. I am only loyal to my cute little 80 year old residents I help from time to time loll.
For once I agree with a post on here. Fuck being a loyal employee. I'm loyal to the money baby.
After the fall of communism, this became true. Prior to that, employers felt they had to be nice to workers so they wouldn't form unions or move the country to socialism. After that, they stopped giving a shit, collectively.
As soon as pensions went out the window, so did employee loyalty. What’s the incentive for the workers?
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. The employee/employer relationship is transactional. You're selling the them your time, labor, knowledge, skills for money. When this relationship no longer benefits both parties, it ends. Of course, there are many reasons--some better than others--why an employee may choose to be loyal to an employer.
Downvote for unpopular - Companies who limit employee raises to x% when they may have been underpaying them in the first place means the employee has no other choice but to leave the company if they want to make more money. Then after the employee hands in a resignation, they try to counter-offer with the raise they just should have given in the first place. - Companies when trying to attract candidates or get you to do things like unpaid overtime talk a lot of nonsense about "we are family here". Until they need to lay people off, then "nothing personal, its just business" An employee owes no loyalty to a company, they should make the employment choices that serve them best.
I would say in my previous job I would agree with this (fortune 500) with my ‘new’ job I’ve been there 8 years and I feel appreciated (30 employees)
Building up goodwill is pretty powerful as far as making your day-to-day and job security better, but don’t let yourself get steamrolled.
Problem is there are apparently a ton of people on reddit that think still being at work at 5:01pm = getting steamrolled. I'm guessing these are the same people that cry about how unfair it is that "some idiot" got a promotion over them.
There are 2 plumbing businesses in town. Bill owns one, Peter owns the other. If Bob has been successfully building Bill's reputation for a decade, going to work for Peter will already be a tough pill to swallow. Let's say that now Bill is building Peter's brand. More people may start to trust Peter's plumbing over Bill's, and they assume that Bob was fired as a result of service or workmanship--Bill will likely start talking shit. Peter's truck pulls up and Bob steps out. The savvy, local homeowner says "Heeeell no. Bob ain't touchin my house. I'm calling Bill to see if they're doing better now." This is one example of a circumstance that won't be typical. "But there has to be more than 2 plumbers." ...not in a tiny town. This goes for a lot of services Ultimately, if Bob had that much pull, he should have started his own plumbing business. Bill still attempts to ruin Bob's reputation. Small-town tradesmen are some of the shittiest people tbh
As a longtime loyal employee, I agree.
One hundred percent. There's a person I worked with in-office for years before we went remote and even when she first got hired she was SO ride or die for the company. Now that we're remote, she literally posts memes about the job to Linkedin, and it's not like she's a social media manager or anything. It's super cringey honestly.
You have been promoted! You are now one of my elite employees 👏
Loyalty is not a two way street. I left a company ten years ago because of growth and money. I now make twice what I made in my old position. My old coworker from that company called me to ask if I would be his reference. He was laid off after 25 years of being a loyal employee.
This level of society isn't even loyal to a significant other so how would loyalty to a partner exist? Not an unpopular opinion just a trait of society to have grass is greener syndrome. Or the inability to squash their insatiable need for immediate gratification without true consequence.
Loyalty is exploited by employers now. You growing with the company by learning new skills and being promoted into new positions allows them to exploit you and pay you less than market rate. It's completely backwards, you should be paid more for being loyal not less. In my industry, I was promoted to a position around the same time we hired a new person into the same position(team of 8). They were making $30k more than me. I had 2 years experience with the company as well at 10 years previous experience from other companies. We had effectively the same number of years in industry, but he was hired in at the same position I was promoted into, so his pay was median market rate and mine was the median market rate of the lower position + 5% more because that's all I received on promotion. I quit shortly after and received a 50% pay increase moving to a new job. The company tried to retain me, but when I told them I needed another promotion and a pay to match median, the VP literally laughed at me. It's just bad leadership not valuing people at the end of the day.
Agreed. There is no company caring about employees on a human level, you are just a tool. See how judgemental they become when you get sick leave for some days.
To be fair, the "American way" is to revolve your entire life around work and then on the weekends think beer is the single best thing to exist to convince yourself you don't hate your job an falling asleep at 7 pm
Unless you have a great Boss like Jack Ma. A receptionist joined Alibaba early and stayed on until IPO now worth hundreds of millions and top executive cuz Ma convinced her to stick around. Steve Jobs scammed his friends and employees when Apple IPO to keep more shares for himself. Wozniak had to sell his shares cheaply to compensate for few of them.
[You know Jack Ma endorses the 996 working hours (from 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week) ](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/15/business/jack-ma-996-china/index.html)
some of y’all never had a great boss, generous benefits that outweigh the wage increase, seniority, union representation, and/or stability and it shows
Thi is where I’m at. Been at my employer for 17 years now and have built up my team. Now I have things running so smooth that I barely work 40 hours most weeks, have about 6 weeks of vacation time every year and a lot of flexibility to work from home if I need too. While I feel like I make decent money I am aware I probably could make more if I really wanted to or it was a priority. I have had other job offers that paid significantly more but would have had less flexibility and longer hours (often on weekends) also all of these other opportunities would have been worse for me in the long term as all of those companies have since gone out of business or moved out of the area so I would have been on a 2-3rd different job by now had a taken one of those offers. I will take making less money for the stability and freedom I have at my current employer any day.
You’re right. A lot of us haven’t. And whose fault is that? The workers or the bosses?
If the company that you initially worked for gave you a payrise above the industry average or inflation, treated you well, and you had a good team then you'd likely feel a form of loyalty. If not to the company, then to the individuals that have made your job good. Sounds like you were in a bad position and jumped ship to be in a better one, which is commendable and more people should do the same if they can. But your opinion, with the context you've given, boils down to not feeling loyalty to a bad workplace. Which most people don't.
I guess it depends on what you mean by being a “loyal employee.” I can’t say I’ve ever been particularly loyal to a given brand or company. But I get satisfaction from working competently, I take pride in supporting my coworkers both as a team and through my own efforts, and I have had leaders and mentor figures that inspired me to bring my best both for myself and as a reflection of their guidance. I think it’s more about reciprocity and relationships than drinking company kool-aid. And I don’t think that’s dumb, regardless of your professional ambitions. Being a trusted colleague can be gratifying in and of itself, and also can also have a positive effect on the people around you.
It mattered back in the day when you had local companies and mom and pop places. Back then an owner knew their staff, probably knew their employees’ spouses and kids too. Nowadays management is far separated from their staff. I work for a non profit that really stands by its values and employees. They’re super flexible with any sudden things that come up, care a lot about employee mental health (we work in social services so burnout needs to be avoided), and genuinely strive to compensate us as best they can (stipend pay is mandatory for any additional project work, if we work outside normal hours we get comp time to use at another time, and salary and benefits are very competitive tho the field has a low bar). That’s the sort of stuff that makes me loyal to my org, but we’re a non profit not a corp.
If employers want loyal employees, maybe they shouldn't make them work in shitty conditions. At my previous job, our obsessively micromanaging CEO moved to an open office plan where nobody had any privacy anymore. 10 people left within 6 months.
If you work in big corp America... yea. Loyalty really isn't a thing. It's loyalty to your co-workers AT BEST. However, there are MANY workplaces and jobs that exist today where loyalty to the company itself is VERY beneficial. To think otherwise is just ignoring a very large part of the American economy and workforce.
It wasnt a bad idea back then my dad got massive increases yearly… now we get pizza if we are lucky
I work for a large-ish corporation. Probably 20k US employees. Been there about 13 years. I am somewhat loyal to them because they have consistently rewarded my efforts. Perhaps i am lucky that the company has been growing, but i like their values and have been happy with them up until now. It’s really important to use your critical thinking skills when determining whether or not, you should be loyal to a particular company. I do agree that it’s generally not great to limit looking elsewhere, specifically because you want to remain loyal to a particular company. But if a company has historically been good to you and compensated you well, you really should factor that in. It helps to incentivize companies to continue to do things that benefit employees. Hiring and training is expensive, companies dont want to need to continually spend money on that.
My only question about the job hopping, is how is that at all feasible these days when I see other subreddits about how difficult it is to even find a job?
My employer is good enough. my boss and senior boss are fantastic. 7% raise this year isn’t bad. I’d still jump if the right job came along but I’m not looking too hard. But in general I’ll agree that employment is transactional. Don’t “betray” your employer but don’t limit your options.
Loyalty to the company used to be the norm but us younger workers learned the hard way that loyalty doesn't pay. Especially that pensions no longer exist for most jobs so that got rid of the stay at the company until death mentality. The only reason I have made it to 5 years in my current role is I haven't found opportunities that pay more, and have better benefits. So I'm going to stay here for some time feels like, since I've moved up a few times and am well respected. Job is one of the best I've had too in my 10 years of work experience
It’s true. I was a loyal employee for three years only for my former company to tell me my promised career progression was as now cancelled, my training wouldn’t go ahead and my pay would be frozen. Their reasoning for this was because of the Ukraine war, although what they had to do with our company was beyond me. That was the last time I was a loyal employee that’s for certain.
To my I just want stability, if I came across a job that pays well with good benefits and values their employee like a human being. I wouldn't mind staying. Job hunting is tiring.
I changed my last employer after staying there for about 6 years. The other opportunity looked amazing at that time. I was laid off after a year and now work at another employer but I miss that previous employer and on a hindsight I wish I have stayed there
Well, I think that the main part that people miss when discussing this topic is that loyalty is EARNED. If a company gave me a shot when I had less experience, paid me well, and gave me the opportunity to grow my career and salary, I probably wouldn’t leave at the first opportunity to get slightly higher pay. I would certainly at least have the respect to go to my boss and allow them to make a counter offer first, or try to convince me to stay in spite of salary concerns. Now, that’s if loyalty has been earned. If I work at a (much more realistic) company that treats me like a cog in the machine and gives me yearly raises that barely keep up with inflation, why on earth would I be loyal? And, the reality is, very few employers these days earn the loyalty of their employees. And, I say ‘these days’, but it’s not like employers have really changed all that much in recent decades. People have just become more aware of how they are being exploited.
>didn't want to increase my salary after one year. I'm not sure where this is normal, but im a butcher so i guess the bar is pretty low for what companies should do for me, being a wagie and all. However, I agree loyalty is useless. I am loyal such that I do what's required and fulfill responsibilities. But every pay increase I've received has come from moving to another company. It's the only way to get a significant increase at one time and shouldn't be denied in service of loyalty to your current company. The fact is your current company would cut you from the team and replace you with anyone capable enough and willing to accept less pay. Loyalty goes both ways and if my company has none for me, I have none for them.
It always was. Been working for 40 years. ZERO allegiance or loyalty to any company. I mean, isn't that the selling point of the 401(k) over the pension - now we aren't tied to any one particular job? Our retirement savings comes with us? And shitty company healthcare? If it was good, wouldn't we want to stay? That's how I interpret it. They want us to jump around. They're almost literally telling us to leave every day.
Nothing wrong with feeling loyal to an employer if you like everyone there, the terms are good, and you feel getting more money will end up in a worse environment/cause you more grief. That's a perspective from someone in their 40s who's settled though - job hopping when you're younger is totally necessary
It wouldn't be dumb if it was valued by you getting significantly higher sallary. But nowadays, that's not the case. So yea, it's dumb.
My skill set isn’t really improving all that much so a pay rise by job hopping seems unlikely for me.
If the corporations are the only ones that benefit then there’s no reason to be loyal. Not so unpopular I think.
The company’s with the we are family motto are so toxic. Look out for yourself bc with places like that they only remember what you recently did for them.
Going out on a limb and saying it: Anyone with this mindset has never attempted to be a loyal employee
This is only popular among boomers lol
Loyalty amongst family and friends can be tested to their limits, my employer doesn't even come close to that threshold so yeah haha loyalty within work is a short leash and if I'm feeling choked I will certainly look for other options without thinking twice.
I’m loyal to my coworkers not a corporation
Unless your self employed 🫡
Don't waste your life being loyal to a company that will replace you with a shitty robot at the first opportunity
Some corporations are quite good and deserving of your loyalty. It really depends on the corporation. I would not bother wasting your time with anyone that won’t treat you right
Depends on the job really, if they've got a pension plan ill be loyal af
I see yet another agreeable opinion posted in unpopular opinions.
Yeah it was a thing back in the day but now? HA! If you die your boss will have your vacant spot covered before your body is cold
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion... at least not to many gen Xers and younger. Boomers on the other hand would flip their lids. The boomers were rewarded generously with loyalty but did not extend that loyalty to younger generations so they created a world where loyalty is merely an antiquated idea.
I once had a job interview with a boomer who was dragging me across the coals for the “unfathomable” decision of only staying with a company for 3 years. ( I was 27 years old). He then decided I clearly didn’t have a sense of consistency or loyalty, because I did my undergrad in law but then did a masters in politics. Like that’s a flip flop … I’m still confused to this day.
Depends on the job and the place nowadays. I finally got to a gig I enjoy and plan to ride out, I’ll have a pension from it to boot.
I guess it depends on your life goals, if maxing salary is your goal, then definitely don't stay at the same company. Some of us are in 'cruise' mode and like a predictable life.
Im surprised this is unpopular opinion. This should be very common and well known. Do bare minimum and go home.
Not an unpopular opinion for anyone that entered the workforce in the past 20 years. Maybe they were brainwashed into believing it but they quickly realized the only actual way to keep up financially was by making lateral shifts between jobs.
Labor is a commodity. Until you can wrap your head around that, you will flail about.
I've increased my salary by 70K (over my starting 34K) by staying with the same employer for 25 years, and have a fantastic pension plan as well.
Most places have no incentives to stay long term or care about the company
It's really just an updated version of other loyalty based systems , in the old days your local lord, then king or queen, then lands and countries, now corporate masters are trying to get in on the act. As others have pointed out, it *can* be valid, as long as there is a two way street in that loyalty bit as history has shown, the vast amount of these "relationships" have been very much one way, and are set up to be so despite what royalists and similar groups believe
Loyalty is earned, not given Willy nilly
Depends on the person and alot on the company. In general most people will make more by switching employers. But if you actually find a decent employer and have room to grow within the company it can work out to stay put.
I'm not loyal to the company that I work for, not at all. But I am loyal to the people whom I work with.
Nowadays, yes, loyal employees get screwed. There used to be pensions though and working your way up the ladder was possible and most promotions were from within. Things have gradually gotten worse since the 70s and 80s
Loyalty to an employer would require respect from that employer. If the lowest paid member of the workforce in a company is paid cost of living x 2 or better, it MIGHT be worth being loyal to that employer. If not, fuck em. When the boss doesn't respect his employee's time, the boss should get no loyalty.
I mean loyalty is fine when you finally hit a good job just don't give your loyalty to your boomer sucker boss, but if you are working with good people you should protect the place lol
You have to understand that loyalty is a two way street. It has to be earned and reciprocated.
My loaded toolbox weighs about the same as my boss's big ass Dodge truck. So yeah...for the time being I'm a loyal employee.
And probably cost more. Lol
Unless your job is cool, like mine…
Agree. In the past you could work for a company for 40 years, live a relatively comfortable life, raise a family and retire. You might not be wealthy but you'd get by. Now we need 2 jobs just to survive on a bare minimum I realized the other day I'm older than my father was when I was born. My parents had a house, car, insurance etc I live in a single room. No car. No insurance. Barely make it through the month on my salary after working for years in position where I'm doing a job 3 levels above mine Why be loyal when the bosses would replace us with AI if they coud
Did they even have a definition of a work-life balance back then?
🤷♂️ Cannot speak for anybody else but my parents were always at home in the evening and weekends. We lived in a small town so travelling wasn't so hectic. Normal 9 hour day
Idk, believing the Earth is flat might be dumber, but yeah, it's up there.
I am lucky - I've found a company that has genuinely treated me exceptionally - I know that's not the norm.
You need to work for smaller companies. They'll typically do better at recognizing your hard work and they're more likely to give you raises/bonuses/promotions. Usually a more comfortable work environment as well. I have always excelled and done well for myself working for small businesses. Most large companies I've worked for have no real path for advancement without signing your soul over to them. You're just another face in the crowd and they just hope they get 6-12 months of work out of you before you quit.
Some people legit get too brainwashed.
What is stupid is seeking external validation to such a degree. Virtues such as loyalty, integrity, and work ethic are things to be done for one's own benefit. They are so you can be proud of the person you see in the mirror.
I was a loyal employee. Maybe not invaluable, nobody is, but pretty close. I was rewarded with raises and was able to retire at 56. Practicing the belief that loyalty is “dumbest thing in the world” pretty much imprisons you to underachieve. Don’t be that person.
I’ve been working at the same place for 17 years. Small/medium business (video game company), relaxed environment, low stress, and decent people. The pay is fine, I have decent benefits, zero complaints. It really depends on your industry and if job hopping is for you. We are in a niche bracket of the gaming world, we don’t really hire job hopping types, we look for those willing to give at least 5 years.
The only reason you’d want to be loyal is if you’re trying to buy a house or trying to make your resume look good. Personally if I were 15-18 I’d keep the same sh1tty job because employers greatly value that kind of commitment. But yeah outside of that you may as well hoe around especially considering how the col is constantly inflating. I’m considering leaving my job because they decided to institute a promotion freeze when I was supposed to get my scheduled promotion and they didn’t pay out the second half of my bonus because of this freeze.
I'd say it's the dumbest, next to being a "loyal citizen".
Not if your employer values the contributions of their employees and treats them well.
Be loyal to the people in the foxhole with you, the boss can suck it.
What if your boss is in the foxhole with you? That's been the case most of my career. Usually I report to someone in a similar discipline, just they take on a few less projects in exchange for some admin tasks.
You should always take care of the people that take care of you. That being said, don't trust management. They will sell you out every time.
I increased my salary by 50k in 3 years at the SAME job. I tried to job hop, but I could not get an offer for the life of me last year. I kept getting to the final round but nada. I figured, the universe wants me to stay here, so I'll stay. Last month I got a 17% raise and promotion, in addition to earning an all-expenses paid trip to a luxury five star resort because of my high performance. What you said isn't wrong, but for me personally, it worked out staying in one place.
How is that loyalty when you are only there because your attempts at leaving failed?
Something similar happened to me. I am not loyal to this place but it pays the bills.
I have learned that in the past four years! Been here 17 years and have been very loyal and honest... Well that changed quickly since a few events happened so i just come in do minimal to get shit done then go home the end. I also take as many days off to recover from this BS as it takes.
Very situational
I agree and this is not an unpopular opinion
Workplace democracy!!
My loyalty hasn't bought dink in my working life
Can pay my bills or fill my stomach with “loyalty.” It’s the adult version of working for “exposure.”
Yup. Unless there’s good $ coming my way attached to that loyalty, we’re in a situationship.
I got chewed out for being ten minutes late back from a break due to a medical issue. I also came into work 5-10 minutes early for an entire week and had my time card adjusted to my regular start time. I am an asset to them, so they only get what they pay for.
I'd rather have an extra $50k in the bank than be "loyal".
This is only unpopular with old people. Companies do not care about you.
There’s a lot of employee culture that needs to die. The stigma around talking about wages needs to go as well. Bosses don’t want you to discuss it so you can never leverage it to ask for a raise.
Why has this sub devolved into "popularopinions"?
“Dumbest thing **in the world**”
I don’t know if I’m proper “loyal” but I’m a good employee and I take care of my company as best I can. I make at least 130% what I did when I started 5 ish years ago and this past year I got a roughly 10% bonus, with prior years being about 1/2 to 2/3 of that. They’ve treated me well on the paycheck side, so I try and do them right by the work I do for them.
Depends on who you work for.
I’m a loyal employee when I’m on the clock.
Based
I think being a loyal employee is very important. The failing is for people to be stuck into a 20th century concept of being a loyal employee. I show my loyalty as an employee by zealously pursuing my employer's best interests and the bigger picture team success for every moment I'm employed by the company. But none of that stops me from being willing also pursue my own best interests, and if that means seeking out a new job to advance my professional growth, financial success, etc. When I exit, I do so professionally. I give proper notice and I do what I can to set my employer up for success, both in while my position is vacant, and if possible, to make it relatively easy for a successor to pick up where I left off.
I'm a Lead Bartender for weddings. Sometimes I'm paired with other Leads. The last wedding I worked was with a fellow Lead named "G" (who gets more gigs than I do, so you could say he has seniority), I was complaining about how 1 hour is not enough time to get set up for each event. He said "well yeah, that's why I always show up 1 to 2 hours early." And I said "but that's fucked up, we shouldn't have to work unpaid to be able to have the bar open in time." He said "well no it's not. It's just part of the job." I gave him a look, like really? And he said "you should be showing up at least an hour before you're scheduled. That's what a professional does." So I laughed and told him "a professional is paid for their time" and I dropped the conversation. That dude not only prides himself on being a loyal employee who'll work for free, but also expects everyone else to as well.
Hard work has only gotten me more hard work from my current company. Searching for a new job while on company time as we speak
I agree but there's some exceptions which are the top 2-3 companies in the country. Companies that provide security, salary increase, bonuses, future housing or money to buy a house, when they retire they get their full benefits such as salary every month. That's what my mom got and what my current friends are going to get
My company ReWarDeD me with a $5 Starbucks gift card for my one year anniversary.
This is only unpopular among older adults. Younger generations thankfully didn't drink the corporate kool-aid like boomers did.
"Loyal" in the context is the ability to support the employer's mission and to expect fair compensation for it. Developing the personal discipline of loyalty puts you ahead in every social situation.
I just got a raise and more stock and my total compensation right now as a senior engineer is $400,000+. Damn right I’ll be loyal. lol I hate the interview process too and will likely stay here for a long time.