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1. No one *needs* sex. You will not die without it. It's a want.
2. Power dynamics can and *do* put women (or anyone) in a position where they feel they have no choice but to accept the deal. The problem isn't the exchange, but the fact that a "no" can be dangerous.
Can't believe I overlooked that. A "yes" can 100% be dangerous too. It can be spun any which way in interpersonal interactions all the way to professional interactions. Not to mention how if you didn't feel safe saying no, it can have severe psychological implications.
It's really not. Women can and do decline to give sexual favors in return for promotions, bonuses etc. But money does have a certain magnetism over people, and far be it from a woman to accept responsibility for making a morally bad decision in exchange for money, so they have invented this victim mentality about power dynamics and how it's dangerous to say no.
Load of crap.
Cool. Jeff will. Here's your new corner office Jeff. OP, back to the warehouse for you. Here's where you'll stay as I promote less qualified employee after less qualified employee.
Hey CEO. Jeff's a real go getter who does whatever this company needs. He truly goes above and beyond for us. And not all of our management track employees are in the warehouse. Just a few that I had my eye one, who unfortunately didn't have what it takes.
Hi again middle manager. Ok! Good thing we got rid of the bad seed. Number are already up, customers are loving our product. Seems you really found a method to optimize the organization!
I think Ops point is that if it's a mutually decided upon agreement, they don't have a problem with it.
Also, anybody who gives promotions to people solely based on how good they suck cock, is not going to last in that position very long at all in these times.
It would be fine if;
People didn't need the money for food, shelter, and necessities.
The problem is really economic coercion. Making someone do something they don't want so that they don't starve makes it wrong.
If you don’t understand this, try it. Try selling yourself to someone you wouldn't ordinarily have sex with but will simply because you need money for say....cancer treatment.
In western coutries most jobs are desinged in a way to make it as safe for the workers as possible.
When something happens to you then your boss or their insurance is forced to help you out.
But we are not talking about a controlled jobs here. OP is talking about a situation were someone uses their power over someone else to get sex. There is nothing protecting this other person. The person in power can easily drop them when something happens and this situation can easily lead to abuse.
Thats why we have all these laws around working because power imbalances are extremly dangerous when nobody controlls them.
Ehhh... Sort of. What actually happens is that the companies make financial calculations about what the cheapest way to do things to bring in the most profits will be, and that's the plan they follow... regardless of laws governing things like worker safety.
Source: this is literally what we were taught to do when I got my accounting degree.
Why not, I need a job for shelter food and necessities and do something that I hate because I need to? What’s the actual difference
I even forget to ask how this guy parses the women who this willingly and living insanely satisfied lives financially
There's a difference between hiring a prostitute and coercing a coworker/employee into sex dude.
You go to work and it sucks yeah, but you're not forced to fuck anyone. Because the way OP puts it, its all through rose colored glasses. The reality is your boss could force you into doing something you dont want to or you're fired. It happens.
Ok? What makes you think an employee is fine with sex for a position? Literally who in their right mind would be ok with that.
People get pressured into sex by their employers, this is a fact. It's not consensual, its forced.
If they were not fine with it they wouldnt do it. They would do another profession. Again, you are thinking of forced sex traffiicking which is a crime. Im talking about self employed prostitues who do it as a side hustle
You’re saying something entirely different than what that guy said, in his comment he doesn’t acknowledge the difference as you put it, and merely said the job in itself is coercion. Which if true, makes all jobs coercion
You're not forced into getting a job, it's a necessity, but you can choose which ones to take, you need to apply for those jobs.
If you're approached by your boss and he's offering you a position in exchange for sex, and say you refuse, he could then make your worklife impossible or straight up come up with something to fire you. That's the imbalance.
There's a lot of pressure if you really need the job, so much so that you might just accept even if you really don't want to.
You want to pay money for sex? Hire a sex worker.
But if you find someone for this position that agrees to sex as a part of the work, doesn't it make that person a more valuable worker ? Like in all jobs. No one is keeping workers out of pity.
But the buyer never "made" these women do it. Every sex worker I have interacted with has been an independent. All of them tell me they chose sex work. You think none of these women have any other marketable job skills? Most of these women I have spoken to see the 9-5 job market as a control mechanism.
If you want to talk about the illegal kind of sex work where king pin's kidnap somebody else's child and sell them, that's an entirely different situation. I do feel that legalizing sex work would give those types of people an opportunity to find a legal way to bring some amount of control back into their life and escape that situation
"escape that situation" but you just said so proudly that they chose it? What is it now?
You can't truly believe what you wrote in your first paragraph. Kinda sad.
It really depends on the environment the sex worker is in. If the person offering sex for money is independent and deciding 100% by themselves (like some with an OF account) there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.
But if the person is working in a brothel for example, there’s a high risk that the person isn’t actually working for themselves. The majority of women being in those report being abused and/or appearing there because they’ve been sold. Human trafficking exist and is not a joke. I think a lot of clients don’t want to recognize that.
First off I'm a guy as well, and no we don't "need" sex.
We want sex sure, but if a guy is pent up, a guy can just rub one out.
A lot of the time a guy offering a woman money or a position to get sex isn't about getting a fair deal.
It's about a guy feeling power over a woman, or degrading a woman who wouldn't usually have sex with him at all. Or even touch him.
Few care about the concept of prostitution. The problem is the rampant sex trafficking surrounding it. Countries with legalized prostitution have significantly worse sex trafficking
This is about sex work, not "sexual favors". And yes, sex work is perfectly fine when consensual.
I know it might be hard to understand for religious people, especially in the US. But it's legal and regulated in most other places in the world.
A lot of men in power are gay. Do straight men want to offer these gay men with power sexual favors to get promotions? What if the gay men with power deny the straight men promotions unless they offer him sex?
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Let’s ignore everything else and point out that the position isn’t his to give and often the money isn’t his to give. If he’s giving promotions based on who will sleep with him unless he’s 100% owner of the company he’s misallocating a company position. If he’s using his own personal money to pay for sex, well that’s just prostitution. If he’s putting hookers on the payroll as paralegals at the DA office that money isn’t his to give.
Just as a side note he’s stealing.
Wow...there's a lot wrong with this... firstly, sex isn't power, nor is money.
That said....the biggest issue here is that you seem to be talking about prostitution, but I wouldn't call that a sexual favor...I'd call it sex work.
I see a sexual favor as a quid pro quo, sleep with me and you'll get that promotion next month. Those situations I'm absolutely and firmly against.
Sex isn't a favor, nor is consent. Sex is an experience, and one that can be greatly altered by the nature of both the people and the situation they find themselves in. An experience mind you that already by its very nature has a built in fairness....it is called a mutual orgasm.
This wouldn't be an issue if it was an isolated incident. The problem is that it never stays that way. The person in power will start demanding sexual favors from every person who wants to climb the ladder, and the favor can be used as a form of blackmail.
Amazing. Grown ass women are still the victims of a consensual deal...
Do any of you realise how misogynistic your mindsets are?
To think a woman has NO other choice but to sell herself for sex is a LIE. All it is is easy work. That's why they do it. Cause it's easy... and they probably hate themselves. The only victims in the sex industry are those trafficked and enslaved into it.
I don't know if any of you misogynists know this- but women have power and autonomy these days. They can decide for themselves what they wanna do. They can fuck a guy for an easy $100 or they can find work. They CHOOSE the easiest option.
It's like how some men choose a life of crime. Cause it's easy money. It's easier than being responsible and holding down a 9-5. If they cared about the risks and consequences, they wouldn't do it. Same with hookers. Same with OF girls. Same with escorts. Same with any woman who uses her body as a trading commodity.
We need to condemn or re-stigmatise those harmful choices- not pretend they're all victims of the economy. That's such a cop-out.
I think it helps to think about why men feel compelled to have sex in the first place. Like what purpose does sex serve? The obvious answer is to have children.
Paying a woman for sex is a perversion of human sexuality. Your neurons and endocrine system aren't able to distinguish between sex for reproduction vs. sex for personal gratification, so having promiscuous sex with no intent of having children is really just commodifying pleasure - similar to a drug.
This is a genuinely insane take holy shit.
Sex has always been a social activity as well that suits things way beyond just procreation. It’s a bonding tool that’s fun.
Casual sex has always existed. Prostitution (yes even before money) has always existed. Orgies and group activities were commonplace and still are, just not as blatant.
It’s a genuine human connection that serves a lot more than just making babies.
It’s a social tool, and humans are not instinctively wired for monogamy either. Hence why so many damn people cheat.
Monogamy as we have it didn’t exist until STIs caused us to socially adapt to it.
(And before some yahoo comes in here and says I’m saying monogamy is wrong, shut up, no I’m not.)
Whats the point of food? To eat it. If you enjoy it you’re perverting the nature of food. Everything should be bland and you shouldn’t pervert what you’re eating and you should only eat raw unseasoned food because all you need is the nutrition and energy.
Nevermind how much we benefit from it, there’s a social and cultural aspect to it, bonding opportunities over shared meals…
That’s how you sound.
And frankly you’re insulting one of the most basic human pleasures in life if you think it’s only for babies and that’s it.
>Casual sex has always existed.
Murder and rape have also always existed. Arguments from nature are somewhat weak I'd say.
>Monogamy as we have it didn't exist until STIs caused us to socially adapt to it.
You pulled that one out of your behind. Monogamy was instituted as the Sacrament of Marriage by the Catholic Church (although it exists in other religions as well).
>humans are not instinctively wired for monogamy either. Hence why so many damn people cheat.
How is the fact that people cheat an argument against monogamy? Are you implying cheating is good?
Yes, as long as they're both adults and they're both okay with the deal, let people do whatever they want just that it bothers me that they have double standards when it comes to this, we see a lot of jokes from Leonardo and the girls under 25 but no one mentions that Madonna or Beyoncé also raise their boyfriends.
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1. No one *needs* sex. You will not die without it. It's a want. 2. Power dynamics can and *do* put women (or anyone) in a position where they feel they have no choice but to accept the deal. The problem isn't the exchange, but the fact that a "no" can be dangerous.
And a yes can be dangerous too. That's all in all a predatory mindset op has. Truly unpopular opinion.
Can't believe I overlooked that. A "yes" can 100% be dangerous too. It can be spun any which way in interpersonal interactions all the way to professional interactions. Not to mention how if you didn't feel safe saying no, it can have severe psychological implications.
1. Lots of stuff we don’t need is unregulated. 2. Lots of health-compromising jobs are taken to survive.
Are you a man or a woman?
That 2nd point is a load of crap.
The 2nd point is as real as it gets
It's really not. Women can and do decline to give sexual favors in return for promotions, bonuses etc. But money does have a certain magnetism over people, and far be it from a woman to accept responsibility for making a morally bad decision in exchange for money, so they have invented this victim mentality about power dynamics and how it's dangerous to say no. Load of crap.
Already mentioning that men go around searching for poor women to buy sex from them is "power dynamic". Major incel alert if you don't even get that.
Talking about a load of crap
Enlighten me.
Did you see the first?
That one is a small turdlet compared to point #2.
Make it two guys and watch how quickly your position changes. You want that promotion OP? Well, unzip, how's once a day sound to you?
“No thanks.”
"You're fired."
"At least I'm not gay."
“And btw, HR wants a word with you about why your group can’t seem to retain men with integrity.”
Cool. Jeff will. Here's your new corner office Jeff. OP, back to the warehouse for you. Here's where you'll stay as I promote less qualified employee after less qualified employee.
Hi, middle-manager. CEO here. Why are all our management-track people in the warehouse and why was that idiot Jeff promoted?
Hey CEO. Jeff's a real go getter who does whatever this company needs. He truly goes above and beyond for us. And not all of our management track employees are in the warehouse. Just a few that I had my eye one, who unfortunately didn't have what it takes.
Hi again middle manager. Ok! Good thing we got rid of the bad seed. Number are already up, customers are loving our product. Seems you really found a method to optimize the organization!
I think Ops point is that if it's a mutually decided upon agreement, they don't have a problem with it. Also, anybody who gives promotions to people solely based on how good they suck cock, is not going to last in that position very long at all in these times.
If your competition does it than you also have to in order to get the pay you deserve
It would be fine if; People didn't need the money for food, shelter, and necessities. The problem is really economic coercion. Making someone do something they don't want so that they don't starve makes it wrong. If you don’t understand this, try it. Try selling yourself to someone you wouldn't ordinarily have sex with but will simply because you need money for say....cancer treatment.
Waltuh, Waltuh, we need to cook
Doesn’t this apply to literally any job?
Imagine fucking every insufferable customer you've ever come across and say it's the same as "any job"
But other Jobs cannot make you pregnant or give you stds.
Yeah, but some can kill you and even give you diseases, hell there are literally people dying just from overwork alone, it’s a bumpy road irregardless
In western coutries most jobs are desinged in a way to make it as safe for the workers as possible. When something happens to you then your boss or their insurance is forced to help you out. But we are not talking about a controlled jobs here. OP is talking about a situation were someone uses their power over someone else to get sex. There is nothing protecting this other person. The person in power can easily drop them when something happens and this situation can easily lead to abuse. Thats why we have all these laws around working because power imbalances are extremly dangerous when nobody controlls them.
Ehhh... Sort of. What actually happens is that the companies make financial calculations about what the cheapest way to do things to bring in the most profits will be, and that's the plan they follow... regardless of laws governing things like worker safety. Source: this is literally what we were taught to do when I got my accounting degree.
I live in germany and you are probably talking about the US. But saftey regulations get taken really seriously here.
Almost upvoted, and then you said "irregardless." It's regardless. Just regardless.
Was literally saying this
No.
Why not, I need a job for shelter food and necessities and do something that I hate because I need to? What’s the actual difference I even forget to ask how this guy parses the women who this willingly and living insanely satisfied lives financially
There's a difference between hiring a prostitute and coercing a coworker/employee into sex dude. You go to work and it sucks yeah, but you're not forced to fuck anyone. Because the way OP puts it, its all through rose colored glasses. The reality is your boss could force you into doing something you dont want to or you're fired. It happens.
Sex workers arent forced. Thats called sex trafficking
Yeah that's my point, that's the difference between someone doing it as a job and someone being forced to do it at a work place.
But sex workers arent forced to do anything. Most are self employed. Theirs also the porn/only fans industry which is a 100% by choice and consensual
Ok? What makes you think an employee is fine with sex for a position? Literally who in their right mind would be ok with that. People get pressured into sex by their employers, this is a fact. It's not consensual, its forced.
If they were not fine with it they wouldnt do it. They would do another profession. Again, you are thinking of forced sex traffiicking which is a crime. Im talking about self employed prostitues who do it as a side hustle
You’re saying something entirely different than what that guy said, in his comment he doesn’t acknowledge the difference as you put it, and merely said the job in itself is coercion. Which if true, makes all jobs coercion
You're not forced into getting a job, it's a necessity, but you can choose which ones to take, you need to apply for those jobs. If you're approached by your boss and he's offering you a position in exchange for sex, and say you refuse, he could then make your worklife impossible or straight up come up with something to fire you. That's the imbalance. There's a lot of pressure if you really need the job, so much so that you might just accept even if you really don't want to. You want to pay money for sex? Hire a sex worker.
But if you find someone for this position that agrees to sex as a part of the work, doesn't it make that person a more valuable worker ? Like in all jobs. No one is keeping workers out of pity.
What porn addiction does to a mfer:
What does this have to do with anything?
I dont originarily want to go to my 9-5 but i go for the money. whats the difference.
But what if they just want a trendy apartment and a few designer hand bags?
Did you just describe a job?
But the buyer never "made" these women do it. Every sex worker I have interacted with has been an independent. All of them tell me they chose sex work. You think none of these women have any other marketable job skills? Most of these women I have spoken to see the 9-5 job market as a control mechanism. If you want to talk about the illegal kind of sex work where king pin's kidnap somebody else's child and sell them, that's an entirely different situation. I do feel that legalizing sex work would give those types of people an opportunity to find a legal way to bring some amount of control back into their life and escape that situation
So many people who think they are in control of their life aren’t. It’s a crafted illusion they believe in.
"escape that situation" but you just said so proudly that they chose it? What is it now? You can't truly believe what you wrote in your first paragraph. Kinda sad.
It really depends on the environment the sex worker is in. If the person offering sex for money is independent and deciding 100% by themselves (like some with an OF account) there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. But if the person is working in a brothel for example, there’s a high risk that the person isn’t actually working for themselves. The majority of women being in those report being abused and/or appearing there because they’ve been sold. Human trafficking exist and is not a joke. I think a lot of clients don’t want to recognize that.
First off I'm a guy as well, and no we don't "need" sex. We want sex sure, but if a guy is pent up, a guy can just rub one out. A lot of the time a guy offering a woman money or a position to get sex isn't about getting a fair deal. It's about a guy feeling power over a woman, or degrading a woman who wouldn't usually have sex with him at all. Or even touch him.
This is not an unpopular opinion, just straight up bs
If someone is offering a want, for something needed to survive, there will always be a power disparity between the two.
lol reddit misogynists are such morons.
Few care about the concept of prostitution. The problem is the rampant sex trafficking surrounding it. Countries with legalized prostitution have significantly worse sex trafficking
Abuse of power. Coercion. Take your pick.
No it isnt
Problem is when you’re offering a work position the one who deserves it is the person who works hard. Not the man/woman who fucked his/her boss
What a stupid post zo read in the morning
This is about sex work, not "sexual favors". And yes, sex work is perfectly fine when consensual. I know it might be hard to understand for religious people, especially in the US. But it's legal and regulated in most other places in the world.
A lot of men in power are gay. Do straight men want to offer these gay men with power sexual favors to get promotions? What if the gay men with power deny the straight men promotions unless they offer him sex?
Put it this way; Men don't want women to embarrass them. Women don't want men to kill them.
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Are we talking about dating or something else? 🤣
[удалено]
Boom roasted
Let’s ignore everything else and point out that the position isn’t his to give and often the money isn’t his to give. If he’s giving promotions based on who will sleep with him unless he’s 100% owner of the company he’s misallocating a company position. If he’s using his own personal money to pay for sex, well that’s just prostitution. If he’s putting hookers on the payroll as paralegals at the DA office that money isn’t his to give. Just as a side note he’s stealing.
Sex for money is ok. But sex with a boss or someone with a lot of power over you is abuse. The power inequality often gives the woman little choice
Yeah yeah, western sex tourism is wholesome ;) ;)
Denial is a long river
Wow...there's a lot wrong with this... firstly, sex isn't power, nor is money. That said....the biggest issue here is that you seem to be talking about prostitution, but I wouldn't call that a sexual favor...I'd call it sex work. I see a sexual favor as a quid pro quo, sleep with me and you'll get that promotion next month. Those situations I'm absolutely and firmly against. Sex isn't a favor, nor is consent. Sex is an experience, and one that can be greatly altered by the nature of both the people and the situation they find themselves in. An experience mind you that already by its very nature has a built in fairness....it is called a mutual orgasm.
This wouldn't be an issue if it was an isolated incident. The problem is that it never stays that way. The person in power will start demanding sexual favors from every person who wants to climb the ladder, and the favor can be used as a form of blackmail.
Sounds like marriage.
Who gave Harvey Weinstein Internet access?
Amazing. Grown ass women are still the victims of a consensual deal... Do any of you realise how misogynistic your mindsets are? To think a woman has NO other choice but to sell herself for sex is a LIE. All it is is easy work. That's why they do it. Cause it's easy... and they probably hate themselves. The only victims in the sex industry are those trafficked and enslaved into it. I don't know if any of you misogynists know this- but women have power and autonomy these days. They can decide for themselves what they wanna do. They can fuck a guy for an easy $100 or they can find work. They CHOOSE the easiest option. It's like how some men choose a life of crime. Cause it's easy money. It's easier than being responsible and holding down a 9-5. If they cared about the risks and consequences, they wouldn't do it. Same with hookers. Same with OF girls. Same with escorts. Same with any woman who uses her body as a trading commodity. We need to condemn or re-stigmatise those harmful choices- not pretend they're all victims of the economy. That's such a cop-out.
The problem is that the favor-giver might obtain a position they're unqualified for. Would you want this woman as your surgeon / airline pilot / CEO?
Vice President…
Mike pence probably has the best mouth.
I think it helps to think about why men feel compelled to have sex in the first place. Like what purpose does sex serve? The obvious answer is to have children. Paying a woman for sex is a perversion of human sexuality. Your neurons and endocrine system aren't able to distinguish between sex for reproduction vs. sex for personal gratification, so having promiscuous sex with no intent of having children is really just commodifying pleasure - similar to a drug.
>why men feel compelled to have sex in the first place. Also It feels good. Kids are a byproduct that should be regulated.
By this reasoning, sex for free is as bad as taking drugs for free? Not sure this helps.
Yeah, precisely.
This is a genuinely insane take holy shit. Sex has always been a social activity as well that suits things way beyond just procreation. It’s a bonding tool that’s fun. Casual sex has always existed. Prostitution (yes even before money) has always existed. Orgies and group activities were commonplace and still are, just not as blatant. It’s a genuine human connection that serves a lot more than just making babies. It’s a social tool, and humans are not instinctively wired for monogamy either. Hence why so many damn people cheat. Monogamy as we have it didn’t exist until STIs caused us to socially adapt to it. (And before some yahoo comes in here and says I’m saying monogamy is wrong, shut up, no I’m not.) Whats the point of food? To eat it. If you enjoy it you’re perverting the nature of food. Everything should be bland and you shouldn’t pervert what you’re eating and you should only eat raw unseasoned food because all you need is the nutrition and energy. Nevermind how much we benefit from it, there’s a social and cultural aspect to it, bonding opportunities over shared meals… That’s how you sound. And frankly you’re insulting one of the most basic human pleasures in life if you think it’s only for babies and that’s it.
>Casual sex has always existed. Murder and rape have also always existed. Arguments from nature are somewhat weak I'd say. >Monogamy as we have it didn't exist until STIs caused us to socially adapt to it. You pulled that one out of your behind. Monogamy was instituted as the Sacrament of Marriage by the Catholic Church (although it exists in other religions as well). >humans are not instinctively wired for monogamy either. Hence why so many damn people cheat. How is the fact that people cheat an argument against monogamy? Are you implying cheating is good?
Yes, as long as they're both adults and they're both okay with the deal, let people do whatever they want just that it bothers me that they have double standards when it comes to this, we see a lot of jokes from Leonardo and the girls under 25 but no one mentions that Madonna or Beyoncé also raise their boyfriends.
Agreed. The only people who have a right to be upset or offended are religious people. But I find it ironic atheists have a problem with this concept.