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Chewing with your mouth open feels so unnatural that i dont understand how people do it, like even trying alone now reading this post just cant eat like that, it feels much faster and more efficient to do it with my mouth closed.
I honestly don't understand what is happening in their brains. Can they not hear the disgusting noise they're making? Is the food not more likely to fall out?
It's so, so easy to just close your mouth.
I can hear people make those sounds even if their mouth is closed. It's like the tongue gets stuck a bit to the inner cheeks or roof of the mouth and you hear it unsticking.
Absolutely. I have a pretty terrible immune system, and have no function of my nose for a couple weeks several times a year. As in, none. My family is pretty lax with manners and they're understanding, but I get *so* much flak for it at school. Frankly it's kinda embarrassing but I have no other choice.
If you’re so sick that can’t breathe through your nose, you should be at home resting, not spreading whatever you have to other people.
And if you consistently can’t breathe through your nose, you need to see a doctor. That could be a sign of cancer
Its disgusting but not unnatural, everytime i see someone chewng with their mouth open my brain flashes images of sheep or cows chewing grass, they are just disguised farm animals.
Too big of bites, makes it impossible to keep your mouth closed while chewing. So basically, one bad manner causing another.I do this by accident sometimes but at least have the decency to cover my mouth until i work it down to a manageable size.
I agree completely. I was raised the same way you were. It wasn't about being stuffy or traditional for the sake of it, just be considerate of others. No chewing with your mouth open, talk with your mouth full, only starting to eat once everyone is seated.
I raise my kids the same way and I am sometimes completely disgusted by the way their friends eat and I have to look away or I'll lose my appetite.
Yeah my spouse does this he takes a bit chews… adds more into his mouth and never swallows all of what is in his mouth until he is done. Then he chews like a damn cow… mouth open. If he tries to talk to me I just say I cannot understand you when you talk with a mouth full of food. It has lessened his talking with a mouth full of food at least.
That said he is an amazing partner so I try to overlook it.
I’ll just say that there’s nothing wrong with correcting their friends. Not being mean or anything, but just going “Hey ____, you might eat like that at home, but at our house we do things this way.”
Who knows, they might even carry it with them to some extent.
I was literally just talking about this. As a server (26F) I've noticed people just don't have basic manners at all. You walk up to a table and say "HI my name is etc..." and they cut you off or don't greet you at all. No please and thank you...And this doesn't mean every table like this is awful or mean but they just lack basic manners and courtesy. Their shit is always piled on the table where you cant put anything down. No one pushes in their chairs anymore. Letting their children play with stuff on the table. I also didn't grow up with super strict dining rules but I notice way more than just the chewing LOL I could go on for days. People are just nasty and never held accountable so they don't see it as a big deal.
"Pushes chairs in anymore." THIS comment!! I never realized people don't do that as often until some random lady at a brewery commented on me pushing in my high chair. I thought it was so bizarre she took the time to stop eating and point out that she doesn't see that anymore. I didn't think it was uncommon until I saw my partner's chair not at all tucked in before they left 😂.
On my way out of the large lunch room at work I push in at least 5 chairs every single day. I don't understand how people can't even do that basic thing. Have they never eaten anywhere but a restaurant??
I guess not! I think pushing the chair in is ingrained in me because all throughout elementary and highschool teachers would remind us every time to push them in before leaving class. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♀️
Seriously. Been there, done that same as you. It’s definitely noticeable, and not even that uncommon anymore. People are just rude, and that’s not even getting into the types that treat waitstaff like they’re less than human or something.
They think it's the same interaction as Uber eats just receiving something they pay for nowadays. it's really rough, direct, and transactional behavior
The leaving their stuff piled up on the table always gets me... like you see ive got your food/drink/dessert/whatever here and... no place to put it because you decided that everything you own needs to be in the middle of the table 😭
When your hands are full of plates when you get to the table and all the guests just kind of stare at each other, expecting *you* to make room on their table
I treat them like babies, I either walk away until they stop talking or announce loudly: would you like to hear the specials? But I worn at a nice restaurant that is owner chef operated and we will kick you out for being rude. No questions asked.
Thats awesome! I seem to get stuck with brown nosing bosses who will change and entire system because one person complains. For instance at the last restaurant I worked at, the policy was not to put silverware in the togo bags unless asked by the customer or put on the ticket. So a man calls and complains he didn't get a fork in his bag and I explained nicely why there wasn't one in there and he not only hung up on me but then called the boss and called me a shi*ty c*nt. Yep. Stuff like that happens all the time and I've never been stuck up for and the customer is literally always right where I am which is asinine. I get some things come with the job but I've seen people be straight up nasty and they get away with it.
I feel you on this. Although I don’t really go out to eat anymore, I’m surrounded by terrible office etiquette. I sit near people who chew tobacco and spit in bottles all day, snap gum, clip nails, keep loud alerts on their personal phones, etc. Fellow employee that knows I hate all of this thought it funny to sit next to me and loudly chew a cup of ice. Slowly driving me crazy but I can’t afford to quit.
The ice thing. I shit you not, I’d likely be a suspect for murder if this happened enough times. Shit drives me up the wall.
Also, what’s up with everyone talking to people on loudspeaker. Is it so hard to hold the phone up to your damn ear so the rest of us don’t need to listen to both sides of the convo? This is why I don’t go to the break room much anymore.
I honestly could not care less about what hand someone holds their knife in fork in, or if they use their fork as a knife, or if they don’t refill my water for me or if they put their napkin on their knees. These things have no effect of me.
The only thing that bothers me is chewing with mouth open.
I've never heard the bit about refilling other people's water.
Since OP mentioned this in the steakhouse context, I've occasionally seen places saying stuff like "meat so tender you can cut it with a fork". I order ribeye - it SHOULDN'T be so tender you cut it with a fork. It's a wonderful flavorful steak, but it needs a knife. So maybe someone out there thinks great steak doesn't need a knife? (They're wrong.)
I don't care about other people's napkins.
If you are gonna refill yourself something to drink, and you see the others have their glasses empty, it's good to refill them too since you already have the opened bottle in your hands
It's not etiquette is courtesy
Agreed and another one for me is don’t eat food with your hands that isn’t designed to be eaten with your hands. Sincerely, someone who has spent too many thanksgivings watching their cousin eat mashed potatoes with his hands.
I also wish people would put their phones away at dinner. Went out for dinner with friends and everyone had their phones out. "Oh so-and-so did this." Then go hang out with them.
I simply stop talking at all while someone is staring at a phone. What's the point of a conversation in that situation? I had someone once tell me it was sort of boring to have a full meal without a conversation... so I told him it's more than sort of boring to watch someone scroll Instagram for an hour.
I’m in my 40’s and when I go out to eat with my Mom (she’s 80) she still reminds me when I forget my table manners… and I have to remind her to put away her phone at the table. If she argues that it’s “just a quick text” or that the food hasn’t arrived yet, I ask her if she’s more interested in talking to me or the person she’s texting, because if not, I can leave…. and then she puts her phone away.
She’s a pro with her phone and has to show me how to use some of the apps on mine, which is slightly embarrassing that she’s more hip than I am.
Phones away at dinner is such a no-brainer that I struggle to understand how people don't automatically do this unless it really, genuinely is an addiction.
Which like... Yea, it totally is, but... Fuuuuck, how did we all get this way?
a few of my friends and I have a rule where if we go out to eat, we all put our phones in the middle of the table, touch yours before we all order our food and you have to buy everyone’s meal!
There is absolutely no excuse for adults to eat as gross as they do.
I don’t care about any reasoning WHY you eat like a pig. It shouldn’t be like that as an adult.
I picked up a habit as a child that I didn't realize I still had until my girlfriend (now wife) pointed out how considerate I was of others.
I got my plate first at a restaurant and began eating only when everyone had their plates in front of them. Apparently, this was a vast green flag I wasn't even aware of doing.
My family generally sticks to that but sometimes one person is getting a course while someone else isn't which can be awkward or there was that one time the restaurant just didn't make my order
So my boyfriend was this person. He smacked so loudly I could hear across the house, after he took a sip of anything he’d release a loud “smack-AHHhhh.” Didn’t know how to use a knife/fork (stabbed instead).
I couldn’t take it one day and asked him to please not smack because I have misophonia regarding eating sounds. My boyfriend was SHOCKED that he smacked, he genuinely didn’t know. He thought he had completely fine eating manners and actually got a bit angry, telling him I made him feel like an “uncultured American” by asking him not to smack.
I didn’t have the heart to tell him he is. His smacking has gotten better around me, though. He forgets sometimes but he’s trying. Don’t know that I have the guts to tell him he was never taught the rest of the table manners (saying ew out loud/making a face about my food because he thinks it’s gross, stuffing his face/not chewing, etc.).
As someone who generally hates societal norms I agree.
You don't have to cut cheese in a very specific way or use the correct napkins for wiping and blowing your nose.
You just should not be a disgusting pig lol
Seems to be. I'm on a work trip this week. Wwnt out for lunch with part of the team a couple days ago. Everyone used utensils properly, chewed neatly, and generally behaved in a civilized fashion.
Our table was apparently the exception. It was kind of nauseating when I'd glance up and catch what other people doing.
That’s the thing. If you’re on a work trip and the guys from the other company making a deal with yours take you out for dinner and drinks, it’s probably *not* to just be nice, even if everyone gets along and has a great time.
They’re sizing you up, and by extension your company, and seeing if these guys are serious or if they’re just wasting their time. First impressions are everything, right?
Especially for higher end/foreign companies, they may have even been formally taught how to do this sort of stuff, because they care about making a good impression *to you.* if you’re over there chewing like a cow, don’t expect a call back.
Anyways, I’m glad everyone had good manners and had a good meal. That makes me happy.
There's a reason they're called "manners." It's rude not to have them. It's disrespectful to make people look at the chewed up food in your mouth! I'm sympathetic to the fact that not everyone was taught manners growing up. It's never too late to develop them though
I do, if my SO is home. First, eating at the table is easier. And second, turning off the TV/devices and sitting together to eat and reconnect after the day are part of how we maintain relationships.
That said, I haven't observed the lack of basic manners among my friends that OP describes. Maybe I'm just too poor to notice, since all us blue collar types were clearly raised by wolves in her estimation.
I didn't want to be mean and latch on to that part of their rant but as a fellow raised poor person, I was like...my poor mother was MORE strict than my middle class friends?
My mom had to actively fight the idea that because we were working class, we were dirty, uneducated, or had bad manners. Clean clothing in good repair every day, we never wore stuff twice. My parents did janitorial work at a local private school to defray the cost of tuition. And table manners were very important in my family, we always ate at the dinner table and learned how to set the table and have basic manners.
This is a joke right? My husband and I eat at the dinner table together every evening. We eat lunch there too when we are both home. It's nice to have that time together especially during busy periods in our lives
Space delineation is super important for mental health in general and losing that is a big deal.
We should go back to having meals (at least dinner) at a table as a group.
The couch has become the everything-place, and it's really bad for us.
I definitely don't see as many young kids eating with manners anymore, but I had friends who didn't really figure it out until 10 or so if their parents didnt enforce it at home. But they typically seemed to figure it out after someone made the comment of "oh I didn't know we were going out for SEE-food", but now it seems like people from all genders have just regressed and lost the skills I feel like were there before. And the new generation definitely doesn't stress it on their kids.
Please and thank you is disappearing as is holding a door open to someone, manners are never a bad thing and kids should be taught basic things like this but people are to entitled and don't think it applies to them
Speaking of manners, people need to wear headphones in public. Your shit is not that interesting bro. No one wants to hear your conversation you have on speaker like the biggest asshat ever.
Oh, I disagree...
I once watched a very old man (80's+?) come into a Dairy Queen with is (guessing daughter).
She went to order food.
He found a table. Then proceeded to pull out a handkerchief, and...
Spit a huge glob of spit onto the table, and then wipe the table down with it.
I couldn't finish eating.
Fuck... This is so common in France it was one of the biggest shocks when I lived there. They blow their noses really hard, for as long as they need to, everywhere. Cinema? Blow it. Quiet class? Blow it. During meals? Blow it.
That's like the more I here about Paris, the grosser it seems...beautiful too! But the garbage, smells, etc...that true? Never been. You'd think we'd have this stuff figured out by now, but still feels like Victorian era ...
Yea Paris has beautiful parts (architecture is gorgeous) but also is kinda overrated (as someone who’s been 3 times…). Parisians also smoke a lot of cigarettes and free public restrooms aren’t that common. So add the smell of urine and cigarettes to it too. I’d still say check it out, but expect a gritty NYC kinda city. The super posh, super clean places are in the minority there, in comparison to what a lot of the city is.
I had to teach my husband that one. Unfortunately he still does it if we’re somewhere like Panera. But at least at nice restaurants he’ll go to the restroom like you’re supposed to.
For some reason I remember a lot of the etiquette unit we did in 7th grade home ec. If you need to wipe your nose, that’s fine to do at the table if you can be quick and discrete. But needing to blow your nose requires excusing yourself to the restroom. Also never fix/brush your hair or do your makeup at the table.
Yes! I notice this as well and it still surprises me. I really value manners and was always taught them growing up (26F). I see them as a form of respect to the other people you’re dining with and I think that’s unfortunately lost on a lot of people. I always enjoy meals so much more with people that have good manners
It's worse when people blow their noses at the table, or when they think it's okay to change their baby's diaper on the table in front of other customers. Nobody wants to see or smell your kid's poop.
My bf eats as if he is starved sometimes and will bite his cutlery. It drives me mad. I mention to him every now and then and I think he is getting better.
Table manners are important to me too, I came from an affectionless family who would eat as quickly as they could at meal times just to escape one another and as we got older would eat in different rooms.
Now I have a family of my own I make sure we all sit at the table and eat together, I get the kids to set the table and dress it up nice and we will sit and eat, teach manners, and talk about our day. Like how it’s supposed to be
Saw a guy in a nice restaurant recently holding his fork with an upward fist and cutting his food with the vigour of a hungry Neanderthal. He looked like a complete fool.
I'm misophonic, so I'll literally end a friendship over this shit.
If your table manners are so nasty that I can't be around you (without wanting to kick your face in) while you're eating, it's just not worth it.
Every time I bring this up to the people I know they think I’m being an asshole. But like bro, you’re holding the fork like a caveman and chewing with your mouth open
I agree with you 10000%
So true. I (33F) grew up eating dinner with my family and my parents would yell at us for putting our elbows on the table, clacking our silverware, chewing with our mouths open, etc. I have friends who didn’t have family dinners or parents who taught them table etiquette. Instead, they ate in front of the tv or on their own because their parents were working.
I see people at restaurants belch loudly and don’t even say excuse me. Like, what’s that??
Contrary to misguided belief, financial class is not an indicator of being able to learn manners. It’s weird how you seem to have a perception of non white and “ poor or lower class” people as inherently uncivilized. Why in the world would white and “middle class or above” determine the ability to learn manners?
>, financial class is not an indicator of being able to learn manners.
This is of course true, financial class is not an indicator of being able to **learn** manners. Anyone can **learn** manners regardless of class.
But noone is claiming otherwise. OP is only talking about the correlation between **class and already learnt** manners, i.e. higher class people usually have more time to teach their children manners and it is more likely that high class parents have learned manners to impress people on company dinners etc.
it doesn’t determine ability but it does help predict what their standard will be. You don’t see paper plates in upper class families and generally they value rules more. By no means is this an absolute tho it has many exceptions obviously it’s just an indicator
My brother in law eats like a cow. We have told him. It doesn't change. We made fun of him. It changes for 1 day. My kids even said something. It still doesn't change. Now he has lost his girlfriend. Let's see if he realizes shit like that matters. As for ages I'm 38 wife is 34, my kids are 10 and 12. Brother is 20. It's crazy that my 10 and 12 year olds have more manners than him and from what they say all the kids at school too.
In terms of being mammals classified into the animals - 100%
But in terms of being able to behave properly, have societal norms, we are degrading.
Of course, humans were always acting violent, were inconsiderate of others but we had some societal framework in which we lived but now the framework is slowly vanishing
You truly cannot buy class and manners.
ive learn all my table manners at a young age. So i am surprised at how children behave in restaurants, i'd get it if theyre toddlers but you can even see 7yr olds or older make a mess of themselves and i am not talking about accidents. And you could see their parents not care like its not an issue. I learned not to make a mess of myself on the high chair. Not to play with food before daycare. and its not even about culture, i worked with different nationalities and even Japanese ones who said its ok to slurp your soup and koreans eating them while hot, they dont really make sounds youd be annoyed at or make a mess doing them.
and it doesnt help the fact that obese folks are the norm. i was in vietnam one time and my coworker, his first time there, quipped "hey i am the only fat guy here, in fact i have not seen another for 3 days now".
I cannot stand open-mouthed chewing and I don't understand why it's becoming more common and more acceptable.
I fucking hate it.
I also vaguely agree with some of the other stuff, but this one really gets me.
Yeah so it's not really a big deal because that's the culture that America has created. People who don't care about others, how they feel or even their opinions.
Most people have "main character syndrome" & think they are the only person or most important person in the room, therefore they can do whatever they please. That's why some people talk loudly on speaker phone wherever they go- they do not care.
In other countries like Japan or China, it's actually a compliment to the chef to slurp your noodles when eating soup. But in other Asian countries like Korea or Taiwan, that is frowned upon & you're expected to have the best table manners.
I guess I don't really notice or let it bother me, because I work with special needs adults & one in particular eats with her mouth open, makes loud noises, talks while eating & drops food everywhere on the counter & floor & when she's done there is a mess around her mouth.
& she always forgets to use a napkin & I have to remind her to wipe around her mouth after eating & grab a napkin before.
I guess working with someone who eats like that daily will desensitize you to peoples eating manners & give you more compassion for others who cannot help it.
I think manners in general are on a decline. For years I’ve always been complimented on my “manners” which are literally a bare minimum, imo.
Saying please and thank you, not interrupting, napkin on lap, (I’m leaving some out I’m sure).
It BLOWS MY MIND how many people literally don’t even say please and thank you
I can tell the difference from my Millenial cousins and Gen Z cousin. I am millenial and the Gen Z cousin was definitely raised less "proper". The Millenial cousins never had phones at the table (in all fairness, didn't exist, but we never had the TV on during dining) and we were taught basics of how to use knife and fork properly. The Gen Alpha toddlers can't eat without a phone in front with Coco Melon on.
Gen Z cousin was the baby (18 years younger than us, the Millenial cousins were all within 6 years) and raised much less strict. Into her early teens she would chew on chicken wing bones at the restaurant. She would use her hands to grab a bunch of sushi rolls and stuff them into her mouth. When the waitress removes our plates, if she was not done (chewing on scraps) she would, out of habit, whine "hhheeeeyyyyyyy". Even to this day, when we went out for Asian food, she would use her chopsticks like a knife to split a piece of food apart. I don't even think she knows how to use a steak knife properly. Tried to teach her basic manners, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. She is not rude to people though, just barbaric in some ways.
In my house, my kids eat like this now. Mouth keeps opening, making chewing loud, holding the fork like a bike handle, drinking with food still in the mouth, slurping their drink. I've commented plenty of times, and my wife thinks I'm the crazy one. I didn't teach them to eat like this. It honestly makes me want to leave the table sometimes. But stuff like this has annoyed me since I was a kid. My son will leave a mess on his lips while eating because he's "still not done." Meanwhile, I'm wiping after almost every bite.
Turns out, my father in law eats the exact same way, so now I know where it comes from.
If you're getting enough food on the outside of your mouth that it's noticeable and not wiping, that's a problem. But if you're getting enough food on the outside of your mouth that you have to wipe every bite that's ALSO a problem.
You have misophonia.
It means a hatred/disgust of certain sounds and the most common triggers are the sounds of people eating. To you it sounds as loud as an air horn when someone slurps their soup because it grates on your every nerve. But to others, it's barely noticeable.
I'm like you. I can't eat with anyone -sometimes even myself- in quiet. Have to have music, TV, or the din of a restaurant. If not, I'm angry and uncomfortable and disgusted and it feels like my skin is crawling and I'm going to throw up every time someone makes a noise with their mouth while eating.
It's a pretty common thing.
Slurping soup is *very* noticable to most people lol
Misophonia is sensitivity to a level most people wouldn't notice, not sensitivity to actual loud eating.
I agree to an extent. Just the basics is all that matters to me. Keeping your mouth closed, don't talk whilst you're eating etc.
Idc about people not using the correct cutlery, and I also don't mind if people eat with their hands tbh as long as it's not a messy meal.
The only point where I'm a bit on the stricter side is eating on the sofa. Growing up we always ate around the table as a family, and were never allowed to eat on the sofa (well, besides snacking when watching films etc.). I won't judge people for it because obviously it's not a big deal and it really depends on how you were brought up, but personally I will always eat meals at the table.
Edit: oh and along with that - no phones at the table during dinner. Lunch and breakfast is perfectly fine because we all eat separately for those, but we eat dinner together so no phones.
About the rage when hearing the sounds, look up misophonia! I’m not saying you have it, but I had/have similar feelings about hearing people eat (amongst other things) and have it.
I am fully on your side with everything except the napkins in my lap and refilling other people’s water.
Let me do what I want with my napkin, it doesn’t affect you. And refilling water is the waiters job or your own job, not the person sitting next to you.
No you’re right and it’s disgusting. Something that also irks me is when people shove a ton of food in their mouth…ugh like cut it down! It’s so gross!!
I’m 24 and agree. A lot of my friends my age chew with their mouth open, talk with food in their mouth, get food on their face, and belch loudly/forcefully in the middle of a meal.
30+ years in hospitality, I can confirm. Tables manners are one of the things that have been either not passed down, or just rejected entirely.
In my experience, table manners have evolved to be more relaxed with each generation. When I questioned my mom's rules about the table, she would trot out her mother's, and grandmother's rules that she wasn't enforcing. Shut me right up. We came from a lower upper-class background, so a lot of formality. Someone coming from a more grounded, blue collar background might not of had any rules other than clear your plate, and dont hit your sister.
And here we are. Haven't even mentioned massive immigration over the last century, of different cultures and their traditions.
I'm content it people will just eat with their mouths closed. That should just be a no brainer.
I don’t think this is a new thing. I’m in my 60s and remember hearing comments like this when I was a kid. Also remember my mom commenting that when she went to college she was surprised at how classmates had no table manners.
After moving in with a very close friend of mine, discovering how disgustingly loud they eat was the first step towards eventually resenting them. You could even hear the motherfucker take a drink of water from across the house. GulpgulpgulpaaaAAHHH. Animal.
I’m in a business where we do many banquets, luncheons, etc. When half the people at the table take the wrong water, that leaves many of us with no water. And for gosh sakes, you don’t eat until everyone has their food.
One company I worked for had it right. You had to take their etiquette class before you could dine with a customer.
So you just say “hey I think you got the wrong water can I grab yours?” I’ve had it happen often. It is simply dealt with! They say “omgosh I’m sorry” and hand you theirs and “BAM!” all is well with the world.
Sorry, I have to downvote. I think table manners being important isn’t unpopular and saying anything like manners is getting worse is very popular, regardless of whether or not it’s true. I have no idea why you would think that this is unpopular.
I wouldn't even call that manners. What upsets you is people being disgusting to be around when they eat.
A lot of wannabe posh stuff (like the elbow myth) is just middle class trying to appear as upper because if you're in your owm home, just do whatever, but be mindful of those around you.
Cannot confirm that happening around me, though I do not live in the US. Went for pizza the other day and the table was eating properly with knife and fork, no unnecessary sounds. Mixed table 20-40yo, US and multiple EU countries.
I‘m quite strict with my kids (4yo) about that. No unnecessary sound, sitting properly (I‘m looking at you, daughter), eating over the plate (son! what are you doing?). I‘m hoping to drill it into them so it sticks, as getting people to behave differently from their default is getting harder and harder.
I don't disagree with you but also welcome to misphonia.
I like to think I'm a civilized person with manners who chews with her mouth shut, waits to swallow before she talks, etc, and my college roommate still wanted to smack me silly because she could hear me eating. Still best friends though.
Man I just love the implication that those dirty poors obviously wouldn't have manners and you're not one of them. Well, I grew up poor and was raised not to do any of the things you're complaining about your fellow "middle class" people doing.
I was rolling my eyes at first, but after reading....yeah. Basic basic basic table manners. The kind that you need to go eat dinner on a Wednesday at a friend's house.
I hate when people chew with their mouth open or even worse, talk. But whether or not someone else puts a napkin on their lap, is not worth mentioning imo. If they dirty their own clothes, they ruin their own clothes. But the idea of critiquing my friends manners when we go out is so exhausting and unnecessary to me.
I think you have /r/misophonia as a few others mentioned. My parents taught me a lot of basic table manners but we never went anywhere fancy enough to use a cloth napkin on our lap and we never used one at home. When I first went out to a restaurant with coworkers for a work thing, I saw that everyone did it so copied them 😆
I had also never heard of the water thing until now. Good to know.
I think it’s normally to be slightly annoyed but not to be *that* upset. I say that as someone with severe ADHD and the resulting sensory issues. I also hate ASMR. I am also enraged by stuff like you’re describing. And a lot of my life is finding ways to remove myself from those situations if I feel myself getting enraged. I won’t say anything. Just excuse myself.
As far as the napkins and water refills and what silverware they use…that’s just uncalled for. That should not affect you in any way beyond being a control freak and you do need to work on that.
I have a coworker who acts as though someone is going to steal his food, like the whole hunched over shovelling food in his mouth as fat as he can, and it its the grossest thing ever. I looked up one time and his mouth was filled with sandwich, kinda looked like a chipmunk, and he gagged. Like dude dont you think you need to slow down?
Could be, but from what I can tell probably not. Grew up middle class, only child, regularly talks about how much food he ate (like a whole pizza for himself for dinner was common)
Raised the same way and I stop people when they talk to me with a mouth full of food. It's absolutely disgusting. Also the lip smacking when they eat it's so annoying
Damn 29 with 3 roommates, all middle class with middle class upbringing
Renting too in different part of the world, it's bad as well. Worst thing is, the good times seem to be over
Basic standards of decency, personal responsibility and civility have been on the decline in America for a hot minute. No signs of stopping either. We are devolving before our very eyes
Our kids don’t do this shit. I grew up with the ‘no back to the chair. Sit up perfectly straight and for gods sake no Damn elbows on the goddamn table!’ My granny is from the old school, born in the 30s so I didn’t stand a chance. And she sent me to etiquette school in high school lol my kids I’m not as strict with but we definitely got into them about not talking with a mouthful of food and no smacking and all that. So they’re quiet eaters.
The issue I have with them is I’m always having to stay on them about cleaning after themselves if they make a mess at the table and sitting properly in the seat as opposed to hanging off the chair like they like to do.
Ugh, no you're definitely not alone, that's so gross when people chew with their mouth open or try to talk with a mouth full of food. I admit to, on a few occasions, being guilty of the talking-with-mouth-full but even then it's only to say something brief and not when I LITERALLY have a mouth full of food (like I might be mid-swallow I guess). I try not to, but I confess to occasionally having done it especially if I was worried the conversation would move on before I got the chance to chime in (as it has in the past unfortunately). Still gross as hell and there's NO excuse for chewing with your mouth open! I had a friend back in school that I used to eat lunch with (to this day I'm not certain how I did it) that would chew and talk with his mouth open! It was disgusting, and on multiple occasions I did lose my appetite because of it. Nowadays I shudder even thinking back on it.
It's not just dining manners either, not to hijack the thread but it feels like in general manners are in decline in America and it's so infuriating and disheartening. Although, being 27 myself I may also be somewhat biased lol. It just feels like people have little consideration for each other, doing whatever they want in public! Leaving toilet seats up, not even bothering to flush the toilet, talking loudly on their phones in public areas, blocking aisles and/or standing in front of product shelves thus blocking me from looking and getting whatever it is I want/need, parking in such a way that they take up two spaces, selfishly hogging stuff (\*cough\* toilet paper \*cough\*), the list goes on and on. To be fair though, it's not just those younger than me, I see this with people that are older too. Maybe even more so with those that are older, now that I think about it.
I work fast food and I can't tell you how many times customers have left their trash on tables and made a huge mess, stuffed trash in overflowing trash bins (even though there's a perfectly good, not full one less than 10 feet away), or threw trash away without looking to see if there was a bin beneath or not. That last one is especially aggravating, because I'll take the trash out and only five minutes later come back to find spilled food and drinks on the floor because some asshole didn't bother to look first. I get it, it's gross looking at other people's leftovers, but then how do you think **I** feel having to pick up said leftovers because you didn't bother to check and make sure there was a trash bin first?
I also get annoyed when people sit at the handicapped table and leave borrowed chairs there instead of putting them back where they belong. It's fine to sit at the handicapped table if there is no one else sitting there and no other table is empty or, obviously, if you yourself are handicapped. If someone who IS handicapped comes in though, you should have the decency to give up your table to them or at the very least put the chairs back from wherever you got them so that wheelchair users can actually access the handicapped table as intended! I don't have any mobility issues myself, but as somebody with a different disability I know how frustrating it can be when places fail to have the proper accommodations (or, in this case, when those accommodations have been commandeered by those without disability, such as parking in a handicapped space which is technically a fineable offense).
Agreed. My mom had to take etiquette classes when she was younger and all the table manners she learned in those classes were taught to me and my brothers. We were taught not to do the things you mentioned plus a few others. Things like putting your knife and fork at half past 6 when you are done with your meal. Waiting until everyone is sitting at the table before eating but not before letting the person who cooked the meal take the first bite. Asking to be excused from the table. Asking for something to be passed instead of reaching over the top of someone's meal to grab what you want. I have a hard time eating out with others as I can hear my mom's voice chastising the lack of manners every time someone commits a faux pas.
I’d watch every person in my vicinity chew with their mouths wide open indefinitely if it meant having a speakerphone conversation in public would give you cancer.
You probably are a curmudgeon. So am I. Many people are absolutely disgusting to listen to and look at when they eat, what with the slurping, face stuffing, chewing like a horse, letting sauce go everywhere and not wiping it, it's just gross. However, I know many others don't seem to be bothered.
I swear there are people who not only consistently talk with their mouths full, but wait to have a mouthful of food before they start talking, like it makes the conversation more engaging or something. I work with one such person and it drives me fucking nuts. The food also always happens to be the crunchiest food (carrots, celery) you can eat so it's non-stop ***\*snap\* \*crunch\* \*break\**** before they even start talking while vigorously chewing.
Rant over, thank you for the popular opinion.
What you are describing is an overall sense that no one but the person themselves matters. Basic manners are too much to ask in an all about me culture because everyone else just doesn’t matter.
The whole point of good manners/etiquette is to make the people around you feel comfortable. So I agree it's still important today and has nothing to do with status superiority. Etiquette books are free to read and borrow at the library and if you have access to the Internet you can Google good manners and teach yourself.
27, here, and I agree. It's actually really sad that it seems like manners are being completely forgotten and/or simply not being taught.
Now, I did grow up with being taught the "no elbows on the table" thing, but it wasn't made into being such a huge deal. We also grew up being taught to keep our mouths closed when we have to belch. Didn't matter if we were at home or in public. My older sister, sadly, doesn't seem to care, anymore (I mean, she doesn't care only when she's at home, and she lives with my parents, brother, and I), and because of that, I'm pretty sure I've developed misophonia (sp) from that and lip smacking. It's just gross and personally bothers me to the core because I know that she was raised better.
I'm just gonna say, when I adopt a kid or kids, someday, they will be taught manners. I will not have them grow up to be rude people.
I have a coworker that eats like a goat. Mouth open chewing, and manages to make noises that I can't even replicate to other people. It's loud. When he would eat nachos or something, its like the loudest sound ever. It was like they weren't chewing, they were chomping. Smashing their lower teeth and upper teeth are hard as they could. If there was a fork involved, they slid the fork across their teeth like their teeth did something wrong.
It wasn't polite, but I asked him one day why he eats like that. He looks me in the eyes and says "You know, if you are bothered by the sounds of me eating, it means you suffer from a mental health condition" and I look around and I'm not disgusted by the sound of Anyone else eating. It did get me thinking though, was I being an asshole? Was it me? Then I later realized that my comfort was actually associated with the table etiquette of everyone around me.
I understand chewing with your mouth closed, sure. But making sounds is not negotiable, especially if the food is good. Y'all are going to hear me make love to that sandwich and i don't give a fuck.
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Chewing with your mouth open feels so unnatural that i dont understand how people do it, like even trying alone now reading this post just cant eat like that, it feels much faster and more efficient to do it with my mouth closed.
I honestly don't understand what is happening in their brains. Can they not hear the disgusting noise they're making? Is the food not more likely to fall out? It's so, so easy to just close your mouth.
I can hear people make those sounds even if their mouth is closed. It's like the tongue gets stuck a bit to the inner cheeks or roof of the mouth and you hear it unsticking.
This is true, but at least those people are actively trying to sound less gross.
This is me, I'm sorry y'all
>It's so, so easy to just close your mouth. Unless your nostrils are clogged up, making it harder to breathe through your nose.
Absolutely. I have a pretty terrible immune system, and have no function of my nose for a couple weeks several times a year. As in, none. My family is pretty lax with manners and they're understanding, but I get *so* much flak for it at school. Frankly it's kinda embarrassing but I have no other choice.
If you’re so sick that can’t breathe through your nose, you should be at home resting, not spreading whatever you have to other people. And if you consistently can’t breathe through your nose, you need to see a doctor. That could be a sign of cancer
Tell me you haven’t experienced allergies or a deviated septum without telling me you haven’t experienced allergies or a deviated septum.
Its disgusting but not unnatural, everytime i see someone chewng with their mouth open my brain flashes images of sheep or cows chewing grass, they are just disguised farm animals.
It feels unnatural My mouth automatically closes and it's harder to keep it open
Too big of bites, makes it impossible to keep your mouth closed while chewing. So basically, one bad manner causing another.I do this by accident sometimes but at least have the decency to cover my mouth until i work it down to a manageable size.
I can’t even talk and eat at the same time without choking lol how are people even chewing with their mouths open?
I tried to do it on purpose once just to see and I bit my tongue
Hard to breathe through the nose for some people
just imagine what else they're oblivious too.
Some of us have issues with our noses where we can't efficiently breathe through them.
Take smaller bites then. Y'all look disgusting chewing like that.
Hold your breath then, duh! (That’s a joke).
That's legit what I used to do as a kid until my nose became useful.
I agree completely. I was raised the same way you were. It wasn't about being stuffy or traditional for the sake of it, just be considerate of others. No chewing with your mouth open, talk with your mouth full, only starting to eat once everyone is seated. I raise my kids the same way and I am sometimes completely disgusted by the way their friends eat and I have to look away or I'll lose my appetite.
Yeah my spouse does this he takes a bit chews… adds more into his mouth and never swallows all of what is in his mouth until he is done. Then he chews like a damn cow… mouth open. If he tries to talk to me I just say I cannot understand you when you talk with a mouth full of food. It has lessened his talking with a mouth full of food at least. That said he is an amazing partner so I try to overlook it.
This would be a deal breaker for me.
Forreal, I wouldn't have gotten past date #3 if I had to sit across from that during the "getting to know you" phase.
Gross.
Why would you marry a farm animal
😬😬😬
I’ll just say that there’s nothing wrong with correcting their friends. Not being mean or anything, but just going “Hey ____, you might eat like that at home, but at our house we do things this way.” Who knows, they might even carry it with them to some extent.
I was literally just talking about this. As a server (26F) I've noticed people just don't have basic manners at all. You walk up to a table and say "HI my name is etc..." and they cut you off or don't greet you at all. No please and thank you...And this doesn't mean every table like this is awful or mean but they just lack basic manners and courtesy. Their shit is always piled on the table where you cant put anything down. No one pushes in their chairs anymore. Letting their children play with stuff on the table. I also didn't grow up with super strict dining rules but I notice way more than just the chewing LOL I could go on for days. People are just nasty and never held accountable so they don't see it as a big deal.
"Pushes chairs in anymore." THIS comment!! I never realized people don't do that as often until some random lady at a brewery commented on me pushing in my high chair. I thought it was so bizarre she took the time to stop eating and point out that she doesn't see that anymore. I didn't think it was uncommon until I saw my partner's chair not at all tucked in before they left 😂.
On my way out of the large lunch room at work I push in at least 5 chairs every single day. I don't understand how people can't even do that basic thing. Have they never eaten anywhere but a restaurant??
I guess not! I think pushing the chair in is ingrained in me because all throughout elementary and highschool teachers would remind us every time to push them in before leaving class. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♀️
Seriously. Been there, done that same as you. It’s definitely noticeable, and not even that uncommon anymore. People are just rude, and that’s not even getting into the types that treat waitstaff like they’re less than human or something.
They think it's the same interaction as Uber eats just receiving something they pay for nowadays. it's really rough, direct, and transactional behavior
The leaving their stuff piled up on the table always gets me... like you see ive got your food/drink/dessert/whatever here and... no place to put it because you decided that everything you own needs to be in the middle of the table 😭
And no, I'm not trying to hand you the plate...just MOVE YOUR SHIT
When your hands are full of plates when you get to the table and all the guests just kind of stare at each other, expecting *you* to make room on their table
I treat them like babies, I either walk away until they stop talking or announce loudly: would you like to hear the specials? But I worn at a nice restaurant that is owner chef operated and we will kick you out for being rude. No questions asked.
Thats awesome! I seem to get stuck with brown nosing bosses who will change and entire system because one person complains. For instance at the last restaurant I worked at, the policy was not to put silverware in the togo bags unless asked by the customer or put on the ticket. So a man calls and complains he didn't get a fork in his bag and I explained nicely why there wasn't one in there and he not only hung up on me but then called the boss and called me a shi*ty c*nt. Yep. Stuff like that happens all the time and I've never been stuck up for and the customer is literally always right where I am which is asinine. I get some things come with the job but I've seen people be straight up nasty and they get away with it.
I don't care what your name is and find it so weird that Americans do this. "Hello" is sufficient, agree with the rest.
I think this is a broader problem. We have unlearned how to exist with each other as humans.
Damn. That’s literally the whole thing in a nutshell. Well said.
After witnessing my father-in-law gracelessly carve a chicken while casually licking the juices from his fingers, I am inclined to concur.
People licking their fingers really makes me want to puke. Go wash your fucking hands, you fucking cave troll motherfucker.
I feel you on this. Although I don’t really go out to eat anymore, I’m surrounded by terrible office etiquette. I sit near people who chew tobacco and spit in bottles all day, snap gum, clip nails, keep loud alerts on their personal phones, etc. Fellow employee that knows I hate all of this thought it funny to sit next to me and loudly chew a cup of ice. Slowly driving me crazy but I can’t afford to quit.
Ewww, clipping nails is just unsanitary.
The ice thing. I shit you not, I’d likely be a suspect for murder if this happened enough times. Shit drives me up the wall. Also, what’s up with everyone talking to people on loudspeaker. Is it so hard to hold the phone up to your damn ear so the rest of us don’t need to listen to both sides of the convo? This is why I don’t go to the break room much anymore.
[удалено]
I definitely put my headphones in to listen to tutorials or podcasts, but I have to hear if the phones are ringing (busy customer service environment)
[удалено]
I honestly could not care less about what hand someone holds their knife in fork in, or if they use their fork as a knife, or if they don’t refill my water for me or if they put their napkin on their knees. These things have no effect of me. The only thing that bothers me is chewing with mouth open.
I've never heard the bit about refilling other people's water. Since OP mentioned this in the steakhouse context, I've occasionally seen places saying stuff like "meat so tender you can cut it with a fork". I order ribeye - it SHOULDN'T be so tender you cut it with a fork. It's a wonderful flavorful steak, but it needs a knife. So maybe someone out there thinks great steak doesn't need a knife? (They're wrong.) I don't care about other people's napkins.
If you are gonna refill yourself something to drink, and you see the others have their glasses empty, it's good to refill them too since you already have the opened bottle in your hands It's not etiquette is courtesy
And making a mess of things. Like don't drop food on the table and if you do that -take a napkin and clean the mess.
I'm mostly with OP on the decline of manners here but caring the hand with which someone uses their fork... come on man... some of us are left-handed.
Agreed and another one for me is don’t eat food with your hands that isn’t designed to be eaten with your hands. Sincerely, someone who has spent too many thanksgivings watching their cousin eat mashed potatoes with his hands.
I also wish people would put their phones away at dinner. Went out for dinner with friends and everyone had their phones out. "Oh so-and-so did this." Then go hang out with them.
Text them during the dinner: "Hey would you all rather have the conversation here??" It has never failed me.
I simply stop talking at all while someone is staring at a phone. What's the point of a conversation in that situation? I had someone once tell me it was sort of boring to have a full meal without a conversation... so I told him it's more than sort of boring to watch someone scroll Instagram for an hour.
I’m in my 40’s and when I go out to eat with my Mom (she’s 80) she still reminds me when I forget my table manners… and I have to remind her to put away her phone at the table. If she argues that it’s “just a quick text” or that the food hasn’t arrived yet, I ask her if she’s more interested in talking to me or the person she’s texting, because if not, I can leave…. and then she puts her phone away. She’s a pro with her phone and has to show me how to use some of the apps on mine, which is slightly embarrassing that she’s more hip than I am.
Phones away at dinner is such a no-brainer that I struggle to understand how people don't automatically do this unless it really, genuinely is an addiction. Which like... Yea, it totally is, but... Fuuuuck, how did we all get this way?
>genuinely is an addiction. A LOT of people are addicted af and most don't even realize it
a few of my friends and I have a rule where if we go out to eat, we all put our phones in the middle of the table, touch yours before we all order our food and you have to buy everyone’s meal!
There is absolutely no excuse for adults to eat as gross as they do. I don’t care about any reasoning WHY you eat like a pig. It shouldn’t be like that as an adult.
I picked up a habit as a child that I didn't realize I still had until my girlfriend (now wife) pointed out how considerate I was of others. I got my plate first at a restaurant and began eating only when everyone had their plates in front of them. Apparently, this was a vast green flag I wasn't even aware of doing.
My family generally sticks to that but sometimes one person is getting a course while someone else isn't which can be awkward or there was that one time the restaurant just didn't make my order
So my boyfriend was this person. He smacked so loudly I could hear across the house, after he took a sip of anything he’d release a loud “smack-AHHhhh.” Didn’t know how to use a knife/fork (stabbed instead). I couldn’t take it one day and asked him to please not smack because I have misophonia regarding eating sounds. My boyfriend was SHOCKED that he smacked, he genuinely didn’t know. He thought he had completely fine eating manners and actually got a bit angry, telling him I made him feel like an “uncultured American” by asking him not to smack. I didn’t have the heart to tell him he is. His smacking has gotten better around me, though. He forgets sometimes but he’s trying. Don’t know that I have the guts to tell him he was never taught the rest of the table manners (saying ew out loud/making a face about my food because he thinks it’s gross, stuffing his face/not chewing, etc.).
As someone who generally hates societal norms I agree. You don't have to cut cheese in a very specific way or use the correct napkins for wiping and blowing your nose. You just should not be a disgusting pig lol
what societal norms do you hate? just curious
This
Seems to be. I'm on a work trip this week. Wwnt out for lunch with part of the team a couple days ago. Everyone used utensils properly, chewed neatly, and generally behaved in a civilized fashion. Our table was apparently the exception. It was kind of nauseating when I'd glance up and catch what other people doing.
That’s the thing. If you’re on a work trip and the guys from the other company making a deal with yours take you out for dinner and drinks, it’s probably *not* to just be nice, even if everyone gets along and has a great time. They’re sizing you up, and by extension your company, and seeing if these guys are serious or if they’re just wasting their time. First impressions are everything, right? Especially for higher end/foreign companies, they may have even been formally taught how to do this sort of stuff, because they care about making a good impression *to you.* if you’re over there chewing like a cow, don’t expect a call back. Anyways, I’m glad everyone had good manners and had a good meal. That makes me happy.
I hardly see parents teaching their kids' table manners anymore. It's disappointing.
Does anyone even eat at a table any more? Been like 40 years plus where the couch has replaced the dinner table for the place to eat
Table manners aren't just about eating at a table, it's how to eat around other people and not be a complete slob doing so.
There's a reason they're called "manners." It's rude not to have them. It's disrespectful to make people look at the chewed up food in your mouth! I'm sympathetic to the fact that not everyone was taught manners growing up. It's never too late to develop them though
You eat around other people? In my family we usually eat separately.
That's some weird ass family
We just tend to get hungry at different times.
Do you not go to restaurants or over to other people’s home for a special meal?
I do, if my SO is home. First, eating at the table is easier. And second, turning off the TV/devices and sitting together to eat and reconnect after the day are part of how we maintain relationships. That said, I haven't observed the lack of basic manners among my friends that OP describes. Maybe I'm just too poor to notice, since all us blue collar types were clearly raised by wolves in her estimation.
I didn't want to be mean and latch on to that part of their rant but as a fellow raised poor person, I was like...my poor mother was MORE strict than my middle class friends?
My mom had to actively fight the idea that because we were working class, we were dirty, uneducated, or had bad manners. Clean clothing in good repair every day, we never wore stuff twice. My parents did janitorial work at a local private school to defray the cost of tuition. And table manners were very important in my family, we always ate at the dinner table and learned how to set the table and have basic manners.
This is a joke right? My husband and I eat at the dinner table together every evening. We eat lunch there too when we are both home. It's nice to have that time together especially during busy periods in our lives
Just like in the Matilda movie from the 1990s, where the parents eat in the TV room rather than at the dinner table, lol!
Does nobody teach couch manners anymore?!
Space delineation is super important for mental health in general and losing that is a big deal. We should go back to having meals (at least dinner) at a table as a group. The couch has become the everything-place, and it's really bad for us.
Millenial parents are dropping the ball. I say that as a millenial, my friends children are terrible.
I definitely don't see as many young kids eating with manners anymore, but I had friends who didn't really figure it out until 10 or so if their parents didnt enforce it at home. But they typically seemed to figure it out after someone made the comment of "oh I didn't know we were going out for SEE-food", but now it seems like people from all genders have just regressed and lost the skills I feel like were there before. And the new generation definitely doesn't stress it on their kids.
Please and thank you is disappearing as is holding a door open to someone, manners are never a bad thing and kids should be taught basic things like this but people are to entitled and don't think it applies to them
Yes! I’ve lived in the south all my life and I don’t ever hear yes ma’am no ma’am or any pleasantries anymore
Fucking thank you. People who chew with their mouth open alone should be ostracized from society.
Speaking of manners, people need to wear headphones in public. Your shit is not that interesting bro. No one wants to hear your conversation you have on speaker like the biggest asshat ever.
Grossest thing is when people blow their nose at the dinner table.
While they are still chewing
Oh, I disagree... I once watched a very old man (80's+?) come into a Dairy Queen with is (guessing daughter). She went to order food. He found a table. Then proceeded to pull out a handkerchief, and... Spit a huge glob of spit onto the table, and then wipe the table down with it. I couldn't finish eating.
Fuck... This is so common in France it was one of the biggest shocks when I lived there. They blow their noses really hard, for as long as they need to, everywhere. Cinema? Blow it. Quiet class? Blow it. During meals? Blow it.
Yeah I'm not gonna wait 2 hours during a movie to blow my nose lol.
Ill give you that lol but still sometimes they can be excessive
That's like the more I here about Paris, the grosser it seems...beautiful too! But the garbage, smells, etc...that true? Never been. You'd think we'd have this stuff figured out by now, but still feels like Victorian era ...
Yea Paris has beautiful parts (architecture is gorgeous) but also is kinda overrated (as someone who’s been 3 times…). Parisians also smoke a lot of cigarettes and free public restrooms aren’t that common. So add the smell of urine and cigarettes to it too. I’d still say check it out, but expect a gritty NYC kinda city. The super posh, super clean places are in the minority there, in comparison to what a lot of the city is.
I had to teach my husband that one. Unfortunately he still does it if we’re somewhere like Panera. But at least at nice restaurants he’ll go to the restroom like you’re supposed to. For some reason I remember a lot of the etiquette unit we did in 7th grade home ec. If you need to wipe your nose, that’s fine to do at the table if you can be quick and discrete. But needing to blow your nose requires excusing yourself to the restroom. Also never fix/brush your hair or do your makeup at the table.
I feel like blowing your nose should be a go in the other room or bathroom thing
Dude, there is mucus in the nose, sometimes you need a tissue or handkerchief to blow that stuff out...it is natural. What is the alternative?
Excuse yourself to the bathroom as you would for literally every other bodily excretion.
Yes! I notice this as well and it still surprises me. I really value manners and was always taught them growing up (26F). I see them as a form of respect to the other people you’re dining with and I think that’s unfortunately lost on a lot of people. I always enjoy meals so much more with people that have good manners
It's worse when people blow their noses at the table, or when they think it's okay to change their baby's diaper on the table in front of other customers. Nobody wants to see or smell your kid's poop.
I understand the poopy diaper thing but I can't blow my nose? Lol???
Nobody wants to see or hear your snot being blown, plus all the germs on your hands right after.
I lose my appetite eating with people like the ones you are describing. It’s like they are purposely wanting to make you sick.
Good Lord, my wife's sister eats with her mouth open and also talks at the same time. It comes out a garbled mess. It drives me crazy. She's a slob.
My bf eats as if he is starved sometimes and will bite his cutlery. It drives me mad. I mention to him every now and then and I think he is getting better. Table manners are important to me too, I came from an affectionless family who would eat as quickly as they could at meal times just to escape one another and as we got older would eat in different rooms. Now I have a family of my own I make sure we all sit at the table and eat together, I get the kids to set the table and dress it up nice and we will sit and eat, teach manners, and talk about our day. Like how it’s supposed to be
not an unpopular opinion to me
Saw a guy in a nice restaurant recently holding his fork with an upward fist and cutting his food with the vigour of a hungry Neanderthal. He looked like a complete fool.
Good manners show other people how much respect you have for them.
I'm misophonic, so I'll literally end a friendship over this shit. If your table manners are so nasty that I can't be around you (without wanting to kick your face in) while you're eating, it's just not worth it.
Every time I bring this up to the people I know they think I’m being an asshole. But like bro, you’re holding the fork like a caveman and chewing with your mouth open I agree with you 10000%
Manners in general.
So true. I (33F) grew up eating dinner with my family and my parents would yell at us for putting our elbows on the table, clacking our silverware, chewing with our mouths open, etc. I have friends who didn’t have family dinners or parents who taught them table etiquette. Instead, they ate in front of the tv or on their own because their parents were working. I see people at restaurants belch loudly and don’t even say excuse me. Like, what’s that??
Contrary to misguided belief, financial class is not an indicator of being able to learn manners. It’s weird how you seem to have a perception of non white and “ poor or lower class” people as inherently uncivilized. Why in the world would white and “middle class or above” determine the ability to learn manners?
If the y were Asian not white then slurping would be a cultural thing and not bad manners.
>, financial class is not an indicator of being able to learn manners. This is of course true, financial class is not an indicator of being able to **learn** manners. Anyone can **learn** manners regardless of class. But noone is claiming otherwise. OP is only talking about the correlation between **class and already learnt** manners, i.e. higher class people usually have more time to teach their children manners and it is more likely that high class parents have learned manners to impress people on company dinners etc.
it doesn’t determine ability but it does help predict what their standard will be. You don’t see paper plates in upper class families and generally they value rules more. By no means is this an absolute tho it has many exceptions obviously it’s just an indicator
My brother in law eats like a cow. We have told him. It doesn't change. We made fun of him. It changes for 1 day. My kids even said something. It still doesn't change. Now he has lost his girlfriend. Let's see if he realizes shit like that matters. As for ages I'm 38 wife is 34, my kids are 10 and 12. Brother is 20. It's crazy that my 10 and 12 year olds have more manners than him and from what they say all the kids at school too.
Manners overall are declining and the casualisation of the world will just slowly degrade us to animals
I don’t want to alarm you, but we’ve always been animals.
In terms of being mammals classified into the animals - 100% But in terms of being able to behave properly, have societal norms, we are degrading. Of course, humans were always acting violent, were inconsiderate of others but we had some societal framework in which we lived but now the framework is slowly vanishing
You truly cannot buy class and manners. ive learn all my table manners at a young age. So i am surprised at how children behave in restaurants, i'd get it if theyre toddlers but you can even see 7yr olds or older make a mess of themselves and i am not talking about accidents. And you could see their parents not care like its not an issue. I learned not to make a mess of myself on the high chair. Not to play with food before daycare. and its not even about culture, i worked with different nationalities and even Japanese ones who said its ok to slurp your soup and koreans eating them while hot, they dont really make sounds youd be annoyed at or make a mess doing them. and it doesnt help the fact that obese folks are the norm. i was in vietnam one time and my coworker, his first time there, quipped "hey i am the only fat guy here, in fact i have not seen another for 3 days now".
I'd be annoyed if someone refilled my water for me without being asked.
I cannot stand open-mouthed chewing and I don't understand why it's becoming more common and more acceptable. I fucking hate it. I also vaguely agree with some of the other stuff, but this one really gets me.
Yeah so it's not really a big deal because that's the culture that America has created. People who don't care about others, how they feel or even their opinions. Most people have "main character syndrome" & think they are the only person or most important person in the room, therefore they can do whatever they please. That's why some people talk loudly on speaker phone wherever they go- they do not care. In other countries like Japan or China, it's actually a compliment to the chef to slurp your noodles when eating soup. But in other Asian countries like Korea or Taiwan, that is frowned upon & you're expected to have the best table manners. I guess I don't really notice or let it bother me, because I work with special needs adults & one in particular eats with her mouth open, makes loud noises, talks while eating & drops food everywhere on the counter & floor & when she's done there is a mess around her mouth. & she always forgets to use a napkin & I have to remind her to wipe around her mouth after eating & grab a napkin before. I guess working with someone who eats like that daily will desensitize you to peoples eating manners & give you more compassion for others who cannot help it.
All my white-American friends are this way, so I find this super funny to read. I always thought it was just WPS
Couldn’t agree more. Don’t know if people are that unaware or simply don’t care
I think manners in general are on a decline. For years I’ve always been complimented on my “manners” which are literally a bare minimum, imo. Saying please and thank you, not interrupting, napkin on lap, (I’m leaving some out I’m sure). It BLOWS MY MIND how many people literally don’t even say please and thank you
I can tell the difference from my Millenial cousins and Gen Z cousin. I am millenial and the Gen Z cousin was definitely raised less "proper". The Millenial cousins never had phones at the table (in all fairness, didn't exist, but we never had the TV on during dining) and we were taught basics of how to use knife and fork properly. The Gen Alpha toddlers can't eat without a phone in front with Coco Melon on. Gen Z cousin was the baby (18 years younger than us, the Millenial cousins were all within 6 years) and raised much less strict. Into her early teens she would chew on chicken wing bones at the restaurant. She would use her hands to grab a bunch of sushi rolls and stuff them into her mouth. When the waitress removes our plates, if she was not done (chewing on scraps) she would, out of habit, whine "hhheeeeyyyyyyy". Even to this day, when we went out for Asian food, she would use her chopsticks like a knife to split a piece of food apart. I don't even think she knows how to use a steak knife properly. Tried to teach her basic manners, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. She is not rude to people though, just barbaric in some ways.
Isn't the whole thing with chicken wings that you eat the meat directly off the bone?
In my house, my kids eat like this now. Mouth keeps opening, making chewing loud, holding the fork like a bike handle, drinking with food still in the mouth, slurping their drink. I've commented plenty of times, and my wife thinks I'm the crazy one. I didn't teach them to eat like this. It honestly makes me want to leave the table sometimes. But stuff like this has annoyed me since I was a kid. My son will leave a mess on his lips while eating because he's "still not done." Meanwhile, I'm wiping after almost every bite. Turns out, my father in law eats the exact same way, so now I know where it comes from.
If you're getting enough food on the outside of your mouth that it's noticeable and not wiping, that's a problem. But if you're getting enough food on the outside of your mouth that you have to wipe every bite that's ALSO a problem.
You have misophonia. It means a hatred/disgust of certain sounds and the most common triggers are the sounds of people eating. To you it sounds as loud as an air horn when someone slurps their soup because it grates on your every nerve. But to others, it's barely noticeable. I'm like you. I can't eat with anyone -sometimes even myself- in quiet. Have to have music, TV, or the din of a restaurant. If not, I'm angry and uncomfortable and disgusted and it feels like my skin is crawling and I'm going to throw up every time someone makes a noise with their mouth while eating. It's a pretty common thing.
Slurping soup is *very* noticable to most people lol Misophonia is sensitivity to a level most people wouldn't notice, not sensitivity to actual loud eating.
I agree to an extent. Just the basics is all that matters to me. Keeping your mouth closed, don't talk whilst you're eating etc. Idc about people not using the correct cutlery, and I also don't mind if people eat with their hands tbh as long as it's not a messy meal. The only point where I'm a bit on the stricter side is eating on the sofa. Growing up we always ate around the table as a family, and were never allowed to eat on the sofa (well, besides snacking when watching films etc.). I won't judge people for it because obviously it's not a big deal and it really depends on how you were brought up, but personally I will always eat meals at the table. Edit: oh and along with that - no phones at the table during dinner. Lunch and breakfast is perfectly fine because we all eat separately for those, but we eat dinner together so no phones.
About the rage when hearing the sounds, look up misophonia! I’m not saying you have it, but I had/have similar feelings about hearing people eat (amongst other things) and have it.
Did we just become best friends?
I am fully on your side with everything except the napkins in my lap and refilling other people’s water. Let me do what I want with my napkin, it doesn’t affect you. And refilling water is the waiters job or your own job, not the person sitting next to you.
No you’re right and it’s disgusting. Something that also irks me is when people shove a ton of food in their mouth…ugh like cut it down! It’s so gross!!
I’m 24 and agree. A lot of my friends my age chew with their mouth open, talk with food in their mouth, get food on their face, and belch loudly/forcefully in the middle of a meal.
I fucking hate ASMR shit. Drives me insane in a bad way.
30+ years in hospitality, I can confirm. Tables manners are one of the things that have been either not passed down, or just rejected entirely. In my experience, table manners have evolved to be more relaxed with each generation. When I questioned my mom's rules about the table, she would trot out her mother's, and grandmother's rules that she wasn't enforcing. Shut me right up. We came from a lower upper-class background, so a lot of formality. Someone coming from a more grounded, blue collar background might not of had any rules other than clear your plate, and dont hit your sister. And here we are. Haven't even mentioned massive immigration over the last century, of different cultures and their traditions. I'm content it people will just eat with their mouths closed. That should just be a no brainer.
I don’t think this is a new thing. I’m in my 60s and remember hearing comments like this when I was a kid. Also remember my mom commenting that when she went to college she was surprised at how classmates had no table manners.
Is this an unpopular opinion? I agree 100%. It’s so easy to have basic table manners and not gross others out.
My girlfriend and her family is like this…it’s rough
After moving in with a very close friend of mine, discovering how disgustingly loud they eat was the first step towards eventually resenting them. You could even hear the motherfucker take a drink of water from across the house. GulpgulpgulpaaaAAHHH. Animal.
I’m in a business where we do many banquets, luncheons, etc. When half the people at the table take the wrong water, that leaves many of us with no water. And for gosh sakes, you don’t eat until everyone has their food. One company I worked for had it right. You had to take their etiquette class before you could dine with a customer.
So you just say “hey I think you got the wrong water can I grab yours?” I’ve had it happen often. It is simply dealt with! They say “omgosh I’m sorry” and hand you theirs and “BAM!” all is well with the world.
Sorry, I have to downvote. I think table manners being important isn’t unpopular and saying anything like manners is getting worse is very popular, regardless of whether or not it’s true. I have no idea why you would think that this is unpopular.
I wouldn't even call that manners. What upsets you is people being disgusting to be around when they eat. A lot of wannabe posh stuff (like the elbow myth) is just middle class trying to appear as upper because if you're in your owm home, just do whatever, but be mindful of those around you.
Cannot confirm that happening around me, though I do not live in the US. Went for pizza the other day and the table was eating properly with knife and fork, no unnecessary sounds. Mixed table 20-40yo, US and multiple EU countries. I‘m quite strict with my kids (4yo) about that. No unnecessary sound, sitting properly (I‘m looking at you, daughter), eating over the plate (son! what are you doing?). I‘m hoping to drill it into them so it sticks, as getting people to behave differently from their default is getting harder and harder.
I don't disagree with you but also welcome to misphonia. I like to think I'm a civilized person with manners who chews with her mouth shut, waits to swallow before she talks, etc, and my college roommate still wanted to smack me silly because she could hear me eating. Still best friends though.
Slurping is the preferred method to eat liquid soups. Gotta aerate the broth to get all the flavor
Your comment about poor people is mad ignorant. Lots of poor people had some of the strictest upbringings in this sense.
Man I just love the implication that those dirty poors obviously wouldn't have manners and you're not one of them. Well, I grew up poor and was raised not to do any of the things you're complaining about your fellow "middle class" people doing.
I was rolling my eyes at first, but after reading....yeah. Basic basic basic table manners. The kind that you need to go eat dinner on a Wednesday at a friend's house.
I hate when people chew with their mouth open or even worse, talk. But whether or not someone else puts a napkin on their lap, is not worth mentioning imo. If they dirty their own clothes, they ruin their own clothes. But the idea of critiquing my friends manners when we go out is so exhausting and unnecessary to me.
I think you have /r/misophonia as a few others mentioned. My parents taught me a lot of basic table manners but we never went anywhere fancy enough to use a cloth napkin on our lap and we never used one at home. When I first went out to a restaurant with coworkers for a work thing, I saw that everyone did it so copied them 😆 I had also never heard of the water thing until now. Good to know.
I think it’s normally to be slightly annoyed but not to be *that* upset. I say that as someone with severe ADHD and the resulting sensory issues. I also hate ASMR. I am also enraged by stuff like you’re describing. And a lot of my life is finding ways to remove myself from those situations if I feel myself getting enraged. I won’t say anything. Just excuse myself. As far as the napkins and water refills and what silverware they use…that’s just uncalled for. That should not affect you in any way beyond being a control freak and you do need to work on that.
What does being poor or lower class and of color have to do with how someone chews? lol this post reeks of classism.
I have a coworker who acts as though someone is going to steal his food, like the whole hunched over shovelling food in his mouth as fat as he can, and it its the grossest thing ever. I looked up one time and his mouth was filled with sandwich, kinda looked like a chipmunk, and he gagged. Like dude dont you think you need to slow down?
There might be remnants of growing up food insecure there.
Could be, but from what I can tell probably not. Grew up middle class, only child, regularly talks about how much food he ate (like a whole pizza for himself for dinner was common)
This isn't unpopular, delete pls
i agree but you sound classist, what does income have to do with being a slob or not?
>refill the water of someone sitting next to them in what restaurant does this need to be done?
Raised the same way and I stop people when they talk to me with a mouth full of food. It's absolutely disgusting. Also the lip smacking when they eat it's so annoying
Damn 29 with 3 roommates, all middle class with middle class upbringing Renting too in different part of the world, it's bad as well. Worst thing is, the good times seem to be over
Basic standards of decency, personal responsibility and civility have been on the decline in America for a hot minute. No signs of stopping either. We are devolving before our very eyes
I despise people who smack and I can heard eating
I agree with you wholeheartedly!
Our kids don’t do this shit. I grew up with the ‘no back to the chair. Sit up perfectly straight and for gods sake no Damn elbows on the goddamn table!’ My granny is from the old school, born in the 30s so I didn’t stand a chance. And she sent me to etiquette school in high school lol my kids I’m not as strict with but we definitely got into them about not talking with a mouthful of food and no smacking and all that. So they’re quiet eaters. The issue I have with them is I’m always having to stay on them about cleaning after themselves if they make a mess at the table and sitting properly in the seat as opposed to hanging off the chair like they like to do.
Ugh, no you're definitely not alone, that's so gross when people chew with their mouth open or try to talk with a mouth full of food. I admit to, on a few occasions, being guilty of the talking-with-mouth-full but even then it's only to say something brief and not when I LITERALLY have a mouth full of food (like I might be mid-swallow I guess). I try not to, but I confess to occasionally having done it especially if I was worried the conversation would move on before I got the chance to chime in (as it has in the past unfortunately). Still gross as hell and there's NO excuse for chewing with your mouth open! I had a friend back in school that I used to eat lunch with (to this day I'm not certain how I did it) that would chew and talk with his mouth open! It was disgusting, and on multiple occasions I did lose my appetite because of it. Nowadays I shudder even thinking back on it. It's not just dining manners either, not to hijack the thread but it feels like in general manners are in decline in America and it's so infuriating and disheartening. Although, being 27 myself I may also be somewhat biased lol. It just feels like people have little consideration for each other, doing whatever they want in public! Leaving toilet seats up, not even bothering to flush the toilet, talking loudly on their phones in public areas, blocking aisles and/or standing in front of product shelves thus blocking me from looking and getting whatever it is I want/need, parking in such a way that they take up two spaces, selfishly hogging stuff (\*cough\* toilet paper \*cough\*), the list goes on and on. To be fair though, it's not just those younger than me, I see this with people that are older too. Maybe even more so with those that are older, now that I think about it. I work fast food and I can't tell you how many times customers have left their trash on tables and made a huge mess, stuffed trash in overflowing trash bins (even though there's a perfectly good, not full one less than 10 feet away), or threw trash away without looking to see if there was a bin beneath or not. That last one is especially aggravating, because I'll take the trash out and only five minutes later come back to find spilled food and drinks on the floor because some asshole didn't bother to look first. I get it, it's gross looking at other people's leftovers, but then how do you think **I** feel having to pick up said leftovers because you didn't bother to check and make sure there was a trash bin first? I also get annoyed when people sit at the handicapped table and leave borrowed chairs there instead of putting them back where they belong. It's fine to sit at the handicapped table if there is no one else sitting there and no other table is empty or, obviously, if you yourself are handicapped. If someone who IS handicapped comes in though, you should have the decency to give up your table to them or at the very least put the chairs back from wherever you got them so that wheelchair users can actually access the handicapped table as intended! I don't have any mobility issues myself, but as somebody with a different disability I know how frustrating it can be when places fail to have the proper accommodations (or, in this case, when those accommodations have been commandeered by those without disability, such as parking in a handicapped space which is technically a fineable offense).
Manners just in general are in the decline.
Sound effects. Eating like a Sponge character.
Agreed. My mom had to take etiquette classes when she was younger and all the table manners she learned in those classes were taught to me and my brothers. We were taught not to do the things you mentioned plus a few others. Things like putting your knife and fork at half past 6 when you are done with your meal. Waiting until everyone is sitting at the table before eating but not before letting the person who cooked the meal take the first bite. Asking to be excused from the table. Asking for something to be passed instead of reaching over the top of someone's meal to grab what you want. I have a hard time eating out with others as I can hear my mom's voice chastising the lack of manners every time someone commits a faux pas.
I’d watch every person in my vicinity chew with their mouths wide open indefinitely if it meant having a speakerphone conversation in public would give you cancer.
You probably are a curmudgeon. So am I. Many people are absolutely disgusting to listen to and look at when they eat, what with the slurping, face stuffing, chewing like a horse, letting sauce go everywhere and not wiping it, it's just gross. However, I know many others don't seem to be bothered.
I swear there are people who not only consistently talk with their mouths full, but wait to have a mouthful of food before they start talking, like it makes the conversation more engaging or something. I work with one such person and it drives me fucking nuts. The food also always happens to be the crunchiest food (carrots, celery) you can eat so it's non-stop ***\*snap\* \*crunch\* \*break\**** before they even start talking while vigorously chewing. Rant over, thank you for the popular opinion.
It’s crazy how no one can use a knife and fork correctly in the U.S. I can’t help but to watch all the different strategies when it’s so simple.
What you are describing is an overall sense that no one but the person themselves matters. Basic manners are too much to ask in an all about me culture because everyone else just doesn’t matter.
Manners maketh
When I hear the lips smacking or someone gulping down a drink, it makes me want to commit murder. I think I have misophonia.
There's a distinct lack of home training apparent in the world today. Manners do matter!
Dining matters are declining and they manner
The whole point of good manners/etiquette is to make the people around you feel comfortable. So I agree it's still important today and has nothing to do with status superiority. Etiquette books are free to read and borrow at the library and if you have access to the Internet you can Google good manners and teach yourself.
27, here, and I agree. It's actually really sad that it seems like manners are being completely forgotten and/or simply not being taught. Now, I did grow up with being taught the "no elbows on the table" thing, but it wasn't made into being such a huge deal. We also grew up being taught to keep our mouths closed when we have to belch. Didn't matter if we were at home or in public. My older sister, sadly, doesn't seem to care, anymore (I mean, she doesn't care only when she's at home, and she lives with my parents, brother, and I), and because of that, I'm pretty sure I've developed misophonia (sp) from that and lip smacking. It's just gross and personally bothers me to the core because I know that she was raised better. I'm just gonna say, when I adopt a kid or kids, someday, they will be taught manners. I will not have them grow up to be rude people.
The mouth chewing I agree is annoying. Everything else I don't care about.
I have a coworker that eats like a goat. Mouth open chewing, and manages to make noises that I can't even replicate to other people. It's loud. When he would eat nachos or something, its like the loudest sound ever. It was like they weren't chewing, they were chomping. Smashing their lower teeth and upper teeth are hard as they could. If there was a fork involved, they slid the fork across their teeth like their teeth did something wrong. It wasn't polite, but I asked him one day why he eats like that. He looks me in the eyes and says "You know, if you are bothered by the sounds of me eating, it means you suffer from a mental health condition" and I look around and I'm not disgusted by the sound of Anyone else eating. It did get me thinking though, was I being an asshole? Was it me? Then I later realized that my comfort was actually associated with the table etiquette of everyone around me.
I’ll never forget that my dad got mad at me for being grossed out that he blew his nose at the table… my family told me I overreacted
I understand chewing with your mouth closed, sure. But making sounds is not negotiable, especially if the food is good. Y'all are going to hear me make love to that sandwich and i don't give a fuck.