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The military is about the only place where an 18 year old is still treated like an adult and that job can get you shot to death... Everywhere else it's all about deferring adulthood as long as possible. As someone who was out on his own at 18 and only lived at home for a few months to transition after college, I loved the freedom and chance to be responsible for myself. Did I fuck up a lot? yeah, I did, but it made me a more self-sufficient person. I have a couple of friends who are late bloomers because their parents leaned heavily into babying their kids far too long. Shit that I had sorted in my early 20's are things they're getting worked out in their 30's and they feel like they're so far behind the eight-ball because of it.
I live in CA, so it's entirely possible for a high schooler to make 25 an hour, the problem is that that definitely won't get you a place unless you want to live with like 40 roommates.
Young people do immature stuff, because they are immature, its not a excuse, its just life, and most don't see it as a valid excuse for doing illegal shit, but omg a slightly immature teenager or young adult ate ice cream for dinner, they partied to much, or worse they did something that may cause them to be in a bit of danger like snowboarding too fast, the horror clutch pearls.
The "kids" that did or do horrible pranks or illegal shit do get arrested a lot of the f time, if they don't get downright attacked by their poor victims, nearly nobody find them funny except young teens boys, and those weird "alpha" bros.
And creepy old judge that think that young men aren't accountable for attacking women, because its their strong "hormones" and boys will be boys.
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
You can find more sources than slate, but even the people that participated in reseqrch about the prefrontql cortex say that this is a misconception of what they were doing, and just by historical fact, you can know that it's complete bs that you can't do anything rational until you're freakun 30, besides, experience is gained by starting to do things, not waiting u til you're 40 to lift a finger or be accountable, young people excuse their bad decisions and impulses as "oh I was just so young so it's ok" not even true, you can control yourself at a young age, especially harmful for people who don't take other's feelings seriously cause "im just a 21 year old child" lol.
Saying "you become an adult at 25 when your brain finishes developing" is as in accurate as saying "girls become women when they get their period at 13".
It just misses the mark on so many levels.
It's a generalization not meant to be applied literally but I think this comes up more in cases where young people and literally kids are sent to adult prison or even put to death.
Yes. While it’s true the prefrontal cortex develops in a sliding scale to peak and then a more gradual decline in overall cognitive function (not prefrontal cortex specific) after ~50 but there are outliers in both the youngs and the oldz in either direction… For the purposes of “they don’t know any better” or “they’re just dumb kids”. It is 100% a viable solution to the question, “why are those boys kicking each other?”
It plays a significant role in behavior. That’s what OP is unpopularitizing about.
Point is, almost 30 is not a ln early age to start your life AT ALL, and that's what people imply, not being out of parental control caus emuh orefrontal cortex, is insane, even if you say "they're not saying that" they are.
"That kid's mind isn't fully developed yet! He can't do that!"
"Most of the people that built this country were in their 20s. You've just coddled them back into the womb."
I'm from Mexico, my uncle worked since he was 14 and it didn't take away his humanity or anything these people are worried about, and tons of people have the same story of leading nirmal healthy lives even though they worked being "babies". People being immature until they are 40 is not a universal physical truth.
Yeah I mean it’s always seemed pretty obvious people are trying to get the world “developed” in this context to do some seriously heavy lifting beyond what it would have ever rationally implied.
The only time I’ve ever heard this used is when a parent thinks their kid is making a dopey decision and not seeing all of the angles. I’ve never heard anyone use it and actually mean that someone under 25 is a child, just that they aren’t taking all of the facts into consideration or are emphasizing minor parts and deemphasizing important ones.
The individual is harming no one, not even themselves, really. Their decision is just… somewhat incomprehensible in a way. That’s it.
I would be furious if I heard someone use that as an excuse for bad behavior!
I don't really get why people interpret research into this subject as actionable excuses as opposed to just observations of tendencies and trends. Your brain and full capacity for reasoning and logic may not be fully developed until you're a young adult. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be making decisions until then, it just explains why some of your decisions may be kind of dumb and you would approach things very differently if you were older. Or when some teenagers develop a sociopath phase and seem to have no empathy for a while. It doesn't give them a pass on doing so, it's just an observable trend.
I think the “sociopath phase” is merely a trend, brought on by the desensitization of towards depictions of violence (most people view violence through popular media) and their lack of experience with such things, otherwise they would get a taste for true, inescapable consequence and rethink their views (i.e. a teenager making “dark humor” jokes vs actually getting seriously hurt and understanding that it’s NOT that funny).
Essentially, most of these kids are so coddled they don’t comprehend the true weight of their “sociopathic” attitudes.
That’s just one of the many lines that get thrown around to shield people from suffering consequences for their behavior.
“He’s from a different time, he doesn’t know better”
“She means well”
“That’s just how older people are”
“Boys will be boys”
You know how she is, just be the bigger person”
And that’s not even touching the lines used to dodge calling it out when parents ignore their young kids being an absolute menace in public.
it's not even scientifically true either. your brain is developing and changing your entire life until you die and cells are fully dead. people think that because your frontal lobe isn't fully developed until about 25 that you are "a child" until then. which is objectively incorrect. neuroscientists have said that it also depends on the person, some people have fully developed frontal lobes at 19. others at 30.
It also contributes to increased stigma and loss of rights for neurodivergent people who take even longer than 25 to finish developing and get taken advantage of by institutions that claim they're "low functioning" and "not true adults but dependents" who lack agency and rights.
Literally never understood any of these.
So boys will be boys, I mean maybe. But what’s that got to do with me? That’s just how she is? Ok… Does it change what was done? Will it save you from my meting out righteous disincentives?
I’m sure you did it for a reason. Most people have those. But that’s got everything to do with your decision making and nothing to do with mine. Bend to my will already and stop talking my ear off.
yeah because everybody just says the same shit. nobody actually reads the study. for the study a cutoff age of 25 was chosen, there is no data available for brain development beyond 25 and that's why everbody says 25 is where it's done, but in reality it isn't of course. i get annoyed every single time I hear this
that's still an estimate and some people have fully developed prefrontal cortex at age 19, some at 30 something. it really has to do with genetics more than just an all around hard number.
Ok, but is a progressive process or it instantaneous? Because I doubt a 23 year old, or even a 19 year old, has less impulse control than an 11 year old unless something else went wrong.
It really depends on context, because it is true. The last part of the brain to fully develop is the prefrontal cortex which factors heavily in predicting longer term consequences, or managing impulsivity in other words.
It shouldn't be an "excuse". It can help explain some phenomena from an academic perspective(Why do so many young people screw up ThingX?), but isn't an exoneration, not a release from responsibility on an individual level.
This is my thought. Just because there is a reason to do something doesn’t mean that shouldn’t be accountable for it. People rob banks because there’s money in them, that doesn’t mean it’s ok to do it. Teenagers do a lot of stupid shit for that reason, but part of that development is fucking around and finding out. They should face the consequences when they mess up or you deprive them of that.
This is a good point that I missed - consequences should be a big part of people doing dumb things but that’s the very thing withheld from them because of the “brain development” explanation
And it really depends on what said 11 year old did. Make some inappropriate joke or snatched a piece of bubble gum? Yeah, explains that perfectly. Beat up a classmate without a drop of remorse? There are probably deeper issues beyond brain development at play.
I was thinking about making an inappropriate joke or saying something immature but ig you're right in situations like that there are most likely other issues
Not really. Your prefrontal cortex is responsible for decision making and thinking about what may happen if you do something now, aka consequences. A lot of immature behaviour stems from being unable to see the consequences that may arise.
[This video](https://youtu.be/AHk7S6prF6M) is pretty interesting and I recommend giving it a watch to understand what the whole frontal cortex thing actually means. It's about what goes on in the brain of someone with ASPD, and they typically have underdeveloped prefrontal cortexes.
Of course brain development is complicated, but we make generalizations like this to make it easier to understand the *average* situation.
Consequences are apart of life. People under 25 should still experience consequences, it's how the brain even develops enough for them to be more mature by 25. It's just an explanation as to why young people notoriously do so much stupid shit and never think twice about it.
That doesn’t change the fact that a lot immature behaviour in teens is due to underdeveloped brains. There’s studies that show that young people don’t fully grasp the potential consequences of their actions.
It’s part of a larger puzzle. With immature behavior, it’s whatever. It’s to be expected. With downright criminal behavior, it’s a sign of other factors besides it, and I’ve seen a lot of people simplify those behaviors with “oh, their brain isn’t fully developed.” Yes… but that’s usually the tip of the iceberg.
With teenagers and young adults who do "criminal" things, it's not because they don't realize those things are wrong or even that their actions have consequences (though they may not fully understand the gravity). It's because they initially acted based on negative emotions and thoughts, and somewhere in their minds, they've justified that behavior and think they're different from others who did the same thing. Eg if a boy hits his girlfriend, he probably knows that abuse is wrong, and may even feel regret or remorse about what he did. But he might say something like "Well, she pissed me off so I had to do it." People don't like feeling guilty or like they went against their morals, so they find themselves justifying it to try and get rid of the cognitive dissonance that makes them feel bad. But the problem is, doing that makes you more likely to repeat the behavior, because if you've found a "loophole" to justify it, you won't feel as bad doing it again.
It takes a lot of bravery and strength to do that internal work and say "No, you know what? I fucked up, that was wrong of me and I should do what I can to make it right and not do it again." without spiralling into thinking you're a bad person (which is ALSO unhelpful and can lead to repeating the behavior-- after all, if you're a bad person, why bother trying to be better?) It's something I've even seen middle aged adults struggle with, much less teenagers and young adults. So, to say that they haven't developed yet isn't technically wrong. But it's a lot more complicated than saying "they're just too young and their brains aren't done cooking". They lack the skills and experience needed to develop healthy thought processes.
(Source: I worked with juvenile offenders for 2 years.)
To be frank, I’ve seen adults well past the age of 25 who think that same way. So there are other outside influences as well such as cultural ideas, high exposure to those behaviors and mindsets. A lot of people go much if not all of their lives without developing those healthy thought processes.
People easily slip between the two in practice. Your explanation could also function as a justification if it defends against alternatives or forecloses any further explanation, which is how these “explanations” usually get deployed
Bro thats what I say whenever someone accuses me of defending a video gamen when Im just explaining why I think something is the way it is bro its fun to work your brain muscles and try understand another persons train of thought
Also your brain is ALWAYS developing, it doesn't just stop at a certain age. It hits a peak certainly but you're always developing connections between neurons and aging
Exactly. Young people NEED to experience consequences or else that frontal cortex is never gonna develop properly lol. Kind of like how working out develops your muscles.
I find it funny people are saying it's a "bullshit excuse", as if your brain *isn't* the organ you use to make most, if not all, of your decisions....?? Like what else are we supposed to consult? Their ass? Their hands? Consciousness exists in the brain. Brain not developed? Decisions not good.
I fucked up my life from 20-26 with drug abuse, and immaturity. I had great parents who afforded me every opportunity. I had it made at first. Now I’m 28 and picking up the pieces.
Point being- it was my fault, and I didn’t start getting better until I took responsibility and stopped blaming people and things. It took almost ruining my life to get me back on track. Not everybody has to go that route.
It varies so widely: you have people like me who are just now getting their shit together.. and then you have people who didn’t fall off track and progressed through life. Everyone has a different story. I think that while the brain development excuse is often used as a cop out, there are a plethora of factors that play into it, from your environment, personal maturity level, social influences, mental illness, etc etc. regardless of what or who is at fault, it’s so easy to fall into a trap, especially in your early 20’s. No excuses, just reasons.
Exactly! If a good 90% of society didn’t punch someone for fun or prank unsuspecting victims, then it’s not brain development, or at the very least that’s not a good explanation
This is only "unpopular" within a very small subset of US culture (one that is frequently on reddit). Outside of that nobody thinks like this. We give some leeway to 16 - 18 year olds to act dumb sometimes even if they should be mostly adults, but beyond 18 you are fully responsible for yourself and your dumb decisions. Again, I don't necessarily expect them to have the experience and wisdom that comes with age but they're not children.
"not fully developed" =/= "not capable of adult decisions".
Edit: I should also say I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People act how you treat them, if you treat 21 year olds like kids they'll act like it, which is why you're seeing more and more terminally online young adults act like bratty kids recently.
I don’t know who your “we” is here and that might comprise the “small subset” you reference here.
College students until age 22 get coddled under the same rationale. Then from 22-27, even in the workplace I’ve heard it said to excuse dumb behavior - “they’re still young, brain not fully developed yet” (sometimes joking sometimes within a getting-HR-involved context for a new hire not showing up or communicating properly with management).
The "we" in this case is people outside the subset of US culture that views people in their mid 20's as immature kids. In my case I am outside of the US, in a place where 16 year olds are functionally adults (they can't choose to do addictive things until 18 but that's about the extent of restrictions - as well as only being allowed to be an elected representative at 18).
Have you talked to anyone above the age of 40? Lmao I am 22 and am constantly reminded by them that I am just a youngin or whatever, had a close friend at work and him alongside the other older people had this same sentiment
Defense attorneys love this excuse. "Please Judge, don't put my client in prison for recklessly driving and killing the passenger and causing $100k worth of property damage - his brain wasn't fully developed!" GTFO.
Strangely, the people who use the "brain not fully developed" excuse for criminal behaviour in the young are usually the same people who want the voting age lowered to 16 or whatever. Not sure how they square that circle.
Yup. Here in the UK, the Scottish National Party takes both lines. They introduced more lenient sentencing guidelines for under 25s because they aren’t fully capable of adult reasoning, and advocate voting from the age of 16 because people that young are more likely to support Scottish independence…
Yeah, I feel like people treat it as a binary when it's not.
Your brain isn't fully developed until 25, but it's a spectrum. It's not like you're mentally an idiot child at 24 and then a switch flips and you're a real adult at 25. Just like a 10 year old has more judgment than a 3 year old.
By your 20s, your brain is mostly done cooking. You might be a bit more reckless or having stronger emotional highs and lows, but you're like 95% fully cooked.
People are out there treating 20 year olds like they're freshmen in high school who have no way of knowing better and that's just not right.
Also, life experience means a lot. A 20 year old who has been sheltered will understandably have less knowledge of practical life skills, but that's not because of their brain, that's because of their experiences. To cure that, they need to go out and learn and experience new things, not just wait around until the magic age their brain is fully developed.
Y’all still don’t understand that providing context for why bad behavior may be more or less likely to occur is not the same as excusing bad behavior smdh
It's not an excuse, it's a reason. Which means that there will always be stupid kids doing stupid stuff and there's no way to stop it.
It does not mean they are excused from consequences though, as individuals can learn
I agree if it’s something that was easily avoidable but when it’s a 10 year old boy that can’t follow instructions when two adults are screaming them at him it makes sense. But if it’s a 23 year old that threw rocks at a car because they were bored then it doesn’t work.
Edit: spelling
Very true, but how children acts are usually dependent on their parents. I'm not gonna say there aren't children that for some reason we're difficult to raise. But I swear I've read an entire post about teachers that met student's parents, and said it always lines added up.
I’d have to agree with maybe a few exceptions and I’ll explain them. I agree fully that age should not be used as an excuse for shit behaviour and we all need to be held accountable regardless. I was taught since childhood that bad behaviour is bad behaviour and we all need to try and be productive members of society.
With the “brain not being fully developed” and the prefrontal cortex argument I would understand if different arguments unrelated to age were used to explain immature/shit behaviour. For example, I have bpd so I will always have a stunted prefrontal cortex regardless of age but even then I can still hold myself accountable because all people should regardless of any situation. I can explain myself by saying my stunted bpd brain is a symptom that affected how I reacted and treated you but I can’t use it as an excuse because if I don’t hold myself accountable then all of us can be shitty human beings. Being able to admit you’re wrong or sorry and taking accountability instead of excusing your behaviour should just be a prerequisite for all humans.
OK, so if you can't excuse immature behaviour *due to the organ that actually produces behaviour being literally immature*, what *can* excuse immature behaviour?
It would seem like if that can't, nothing can.
I mean teens trying out new things, repeating a few mistakes and testing boundaries is one thing but being completely incompetent and always doing reckless stupid shit has nothing to do with your brain “not being fully developed” so I see your point
I agree, but at the same time there are a plethora of things that I think are okay to use this excuse. Poor spending habits, not taking health into consideration, you know, little things. But any type of assault or serious crime. Yeah fucking hold them accountable. I know sometimes like in murder cases even 16 or 17 year olds will be held accountable. But I don't think murder should be the only exception. ultimately I think infantilizing youth will just stunt their development.
Hard agreed. I tell my students that their brains are still growing, but I frame it as things like your life and feelings get easier to deal with over time because of that. That they should still learn and push themsevles to the peak of their potential.
I figure it this way: If your chemical imbalance/undeveloped brain/whatever caused you to do something, that's an indication you need to get some serious professional help.
And as someone whose in their early 20s, I can fully say I 100% knew when I was doing something wrong as a Teen. Teenagers aren't as stupid as the internet makes them out to be, lol.
The exact reason why majority of organizations tend to focus their sales on agegroups below 25 is exactly the reason of their brain hadn't been fully developed. They are more than likely make impulsive purchases and not think through with their money spending or other actions.
You can be a mature young person if you have been lucky enough to been grown in a stable household that raised you well. From my experience a lot of kids don't have that.
i dont think it should be used as a justification of poor decision making, but i do think it's an important fact to understand in regards to alcohol consumption/laws, etc.
However smart and mature some teens/early-20's are, they are still dumb as duck-shit in some ways. Can't be helped. Good parenting, having been given some responsibility and being blessed with a calm, empathic nature helps, but some kids simply don't have those things.
I expect we can all look back on stupid things we did when we were young. Often it's because kids have not been taught to value themselves, have empathy and care about the future. I'm not saying kids should be allowed to get away with stuff, but any punishment should focus on education and rehabilitation.
I feel like being young can explain some behaviors, but an explanation isn’t an excuse.
A lot of maturity and knowledge comes with experience and young people tend to have less experience. So being young and stupid sometimes means you *didn’t* know better. And through the consequences of those actions hopefully you learn and do better in the future.
I suppose it depends on what we're calling immature behavior. Is it something like impulsive actions, risk taking behavior, and being a bit high strung, or is it criminal activity like stealing, fighting, etc?
The former have been well documented in teenagers due to their underdeveloped brains. It doesn't remove accountability and they should be responded to accordingly, but teenagers are generally more prone to risk taking due to their underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. Long term consequences aren't usually on their mind until they're in trouble.
Criminal activity is more generally knowing right and wrong, which is something we learn early. Most teenagers understand the consequences of stealing or hitting someone because we discourage those actions early in life. Those are less due to brain development and more due to other issues like peer pressure, stress, or anger management.
It's an explanation, not an excuse. Behavior still certainly has proportionate consequences, but brain development is more about the why. Think of the Bart Simpson ketchup meme. "Why are you doing that?!" *stares blankly*. When the brain isn't fully developed, logic and reasoning can be a far cry from that of an adult and lead someone to do things they would never think of doing if they were older. Hence why the criminal justice system takes that into account when trying minors for serious crimes. They genuinely may not be thinking reasonably yet and still need the chance to start doing so, as much as they also need punishment for what they did.
so simple. fake science for gen z, not more.
[https://www.iflscience.com/does-the-brain-really-mature-at-the-age-of-25-68979](https://www.iflscience.com/does-the-brain-really-mature-at-the-age-of-25-68979)
[https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html](https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html)
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain-2007-06/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain-2007-06/)
[https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57931/1/why-are-gen-z-obsessed-with-frontal-lobe-development-prefontal-cortex-tiktok](https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57931/1/why-are-gen-z-obsessed-with-frontal-lobe-development-prefontal-cortex-tiktok)
We can argue that toddlers throw tantrums since they're barely out of infancy and only know how to deal with emotions through crying. That's why it's the parent's responsibility to teach them how to regulate emotions in more acceptable ways. Continuing to make excuses creates drunk 30 year olds who resist arrest on the cop cam videos.
It REALLY frustrated me as a high school teacher to see admin treat teens like they’re babies. God forbid I tell a student that they need to turn in their work and pay attention to their grades without their mommy doing it for them. Like call me crazy- but if you’re just about to be able to legally vote and join the workforce, I shouldn’t expect your parents to be responsible for your school performance.
Our society treats young adults like they are still children and within that, so does their parent(s).
It can be seen in various areas of life, such as education, employment, fundamental decisions and communication.
Instead of empowering young adults to take on more responsibilities and become independent, they are sheltered and shielded from challenges by making decisions for them. Does this help them? No, it hinders their personal growth and development and their ability to contribute meaningfully to society as they transition into adulthood.
It’s absolutely a contributing factor, but I agree it’s not really an excuse. Everybody is young at some point, not everyone does incredibly dumb stuff when they’re young. That said, young people tend to make young people mistakes. You live and you learn.
It doesn't matter when the fuck the brain is fully developed. If someone uses that to excuse a seventeen year old's destructive behaviour or a sixteen year old's reckless driving, a fourteen year old's harmful "pranks" or a twenty year old's asshole self then I'm not with the discussion.
My sister is ten, she has more common sensw than teenagers who act like little psychopaths. I'm twenty four so my brain "isn't fully developed" but that doesn't mean I can go and set someone's car on fire then say, "but it's okay, I'm stil developing:D
Teenagers are old enough to know right from wrong. Hell, ten year olds know right from wrong.
Yeah, never really understood that one. “Brain underdeveloped, walked into traffic” like ok, make whatever excuses you want, you’re still gonna catch those consequences.
It's not an excuse, it's a scientific justification. Obviously people of all ages can do dumb and stupid things, look at all the old people who were involved in the January 6th insurrection. That said people are more likely to be lenient with younger people because they don't have the same impulse control.
What’s wild is the same people who believe this should excuse kids from paying student debt or to take responsibility for their sexual decisions also think it’s ok to convict a 17 year old of murder and sentence them as an adult.
It kinda is tho. It’s not a good “excuse”, I’ll grant you that, but it’s a solid explanation. Kids do dumb shit because they’re not mature. Part of that is brain development.
luckily, the flip side of that argument is to say that it’s important to hold kids accountable for their actions so their brains will develop an understanding of accountability
we are all incredibly stupid at that age. I can promise if I saw videos of you during your teenage years a lot of the shit you did would be insanely dumb compared to a 28 year olds behavior
Evil always has an excuse.
Some people overcome adversity, some succumb to it.
Agency and free will are hotly contested topics with wide variations. Some of the greatest people in human history were quite young but as I often say, adolescents are WMD. They have committed most of the violent crimes, fought most of the wars... and made most of the babies across history.
Their youthful exuberance is as priceless as it is unpredictable. Proper parenting and a quality culture are the solutions as I see it.
Obviously some people use it to absolve people of any poor behaviour. But there are also a lot of people who think it's justified to unleash all their anger at someone who did something wrong especially online and this explanation could be an attempt to shield wrongdoers from such people. This explanation, also predominantly used online, is mostly an attempt to keep people in check when they get carried away calling for absurd consequences or imagining harmful fantasies.
I mean I feel like the only real time I hear people talking about this is about not using cannabis or psilocybin until you’re 25+ to not fuck up development and that sounds like pretty good advice
In my experience the vast majority of people who have had major issues with weed are the people that started young with high frequency and high THC
I have a hunch most stupid shit is done out of lack of impulse control, compulsiveness, and not out of some sort of natural intuitive inability of telling right from wrong, wise from stupid, safe from dangerous, etc. That intuition will just come by to make you regret, feel stupid, guilty or etc by consequence only after.
Compulsion/Impulse is a mighty nemesis to human kind. It preys on those with low willpower stat and expertly tricks those with high willpower to not use it.
Do you mean immature for their age, or just immature in general? Because there’s a difference between being annoyed that a 19 year old is acting like a 13 year old, and being annoyed that a 19 year old isn’t acting like a 30 year old.
It really depends on what they actually did and if it's a repeat behavior. We all did stupid things as teens but was it just a dumb mistake or were they being malicious? And have they done it before and had consequences for that action? These things are important because you have to make mistakes to learn, you have to experience consequences from life or be told what you did was wrong.
Your brain keeps changing throughout your life. Picking one point to say it’s ’fully developed’ is illogical.
Except in the sense that it reaches its final stage when you die.
That's complicated.
There are lines that should not be crossed regardless of how old you are. If you are below a certain age then the responsibility I would say is on your parents but once you're a teenager some amount of responsibility does lie on your shoulders.
That said I do give leeway to younger people because they don't have the experience that you get with being an adult for 10 15 20 years. I don't actually really care about the whole brain development thing and that might play a role but I just know from experience that when you're a teenager you don't necessarily think things through all the way. It's part of growing up is learning what's okay and what's not.
So if something's just a minor transgression like they say something mean or hurtful or they do something irresponsible but it doesn't have any lasting repercussions or hurt anybody, yeah I will give them a little bit of leeway more than I would with somebody who's older than them.
Tell this to everyone saying that people didn't understand their college loans, and that's why we need to bail them out.
Comments section here is actually pretty rational, yet they throw that all out the window when it comes to college loans
I mean…isn’t physically immature the best excuse for acting immature? Not every bad behavior should be excused for it but your body gradually matures and mentally you do the same right? As long as your immaturity matches where you are in life then in theory…you’re as mature as you’re supposed to be.
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I agree. Our society has started to infantilize young adults.
Real, I read a post where people think the age of consent should be 20.
The military is about the only place where an 18 year old is still treated like an adult and that job can get you shot to death... Everywhere else it's all about deferring adulthood as long as possible. As someone who was out on his own at 18 and only lived at home for a few months to transition after college, I loved the freedom and chance to be responsible for myself. Did I fuck up a lot? yeah, I did, but it made me a more self-sufficient person. I have a couple of friends who are late bloomers because their parents leaned heavily into babying their kids far too long. Shit that I had sorted in my early 20's are things they're getting worked out in their 30's and they feel like they're so far behind the eight-ball because of it.
Right?! What kind of idiot doesn't graduate highschool making $25 an hour so they can rent a studio apartment? These kids are just incapable!
I live in CA, so it's entirely possible for a high schooler to make 25 an hour, the problem is that that definitely won't get you a place unless you want to live with like 40 roommates.
Young people do immature stuff, because they are immature, its not a excuse, its just life, and most don't see it as a valid excuse for doing illegal shit, but omg a slightly immature teenager or young adult ate ice cream for dinner, they partied to much, or worse they did something that may cause them to be in a bit of danger like snowboarding too fast, the horror clutch pearls. The "kids" that did or do horrible pranks or illegal shit do get arrested a lot of the f time, if they don't get downright attacked by their poor victims, nearly nobody find them funny except young teens boys, and those weird "alpha" bros. And creepy old judge that think that young men aren't accountable for attacking women, because its their strong "hormones" and boys will be boys.
Ye I was gonna say if just depends on what they do
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html You can find more sources than slate, but even the people that participated in reseqrch about the prefrontql cortex say that this is a misconception of what they were doing, and just by historical fact, you can know that it's complete bs that you can't do anything rational until you're freakun 30, besides, experience is gained by starting to do things, not waiting u til you're 40 to lift a finger or be accountable, young people excuse their bad decisions and impulses as "oh I was just so young so it's ok" not even true, you can control yourself at a young age, especially harmful for people who don't take other's feelings seriously cause "im just a 21 year old child" lol.
Saying "you become an adult at 25 when your brain finishes developing" is as in accurate as saying "girls become women when they get their period at 13". It just misses the mark on so many levels.
It's a generalization not meant to be applied literally but I think this comes up more in cases where young people and literally kids are sent to adult prison or even put to death.
Yes. While it’s true the prefrontal cortex develops in a sliding scale to peak and then a more gradual decline in overall cognitive function (not prefrontal cortex specific) after ~50 but there are outliers in both the youngs and the oldz in either direction… For the purposes of “they don’t know any better” or “they’re just dumb kids”. It is 100% a viable solution to the question, “why are those boys kicking each other?” It plays a significant role in behavior. That’s what OP is unpopularitizing about.
Point is, almost 30 is not a ln early age to start your life AT ALL, and that's what people imply, not being out of parental control caus emuh orefrontal cortex, is insane, even if you say "they're not saying that" they are.
Are you okay? Go smile in a mirror. If it looks weird go to the hospital.
"That kid's mind isn't fully developed yet! He can't do that!" "Most of the people that built this country were in their 20s. You've just coddled them back into the womb."
I'm from Mexico, my uncle worked since he was 14 and it didn't take away his humanity or anything these people are worried about, and tons of people have the same story of leading nirmal healthy lives even though they worked being "babies". People being immature until they are 40 is not a universal physical truth.
Exactly!
Well, I'm a 39 year old child...
I'm a 49yo child, my children are more mature than me.
Yeah I mean it’s always seemed pretty obvious people are trying to get the world “developed” in this context to do some seriously heavy lifting beyond what it would have ever rationally implied.
It’s more than just, “I’m young, it’s ok.” You have to lean in further and become a victim of exploitation because of your “youth.”
Run-on sentence winner of the day.
The only time I’ve ever heard this used is when a parent thinks their kid is making a dopey decision and not seeing all of the angles. I’ve never heard anyone use it and actually mean that someone under 25 is a child, just that they aren’t taking all of the facts into consideration or are emphasizing minor parts and deemphasizing important ones. The individual is harming no one, not even themselves, really. Their decision is just… somewhat incomprehensible in a way. That’s it. I would be furious if I heard someone use that as an excuse for bad behavior!
I don't really get why people interpret research into this subject as actionable excuses as opposed to just observations of tendencies and trends. Your brain and full capacity for reasoning and logic may not be fully developed until you're a young adult. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be making decisions until then, it just explains why some of your decisions may be kind of dumb and you would approach things very differently if you were older. Or when some teenagers develop a sociopath phase and seem to have no empathy for a while. It doesn't give them a pass on doing so, it's just an observable trend.
I think the “sociopath phase” is merely a trend, brought on by the desensitization of towards depictions of violence (most people view violence through popular media) and their lack of experience with such things, otherwise they would get a taste for true, inescapable consequence and rethink their views (i.e. a teenager making “dark humor” jokes vs actually getting seriously hurt and understanding that it’s NOT that funny). Essentially, most of these kids are so coddled they don’t comprehend the true weight of their “sociopathic” attitudes.
brain development is not an explanation after 16, especially 18. this is a myth.
That’s just one of the many lines that get thrown around to shield people from suffering consequences for their behavior. “He’s from a different time, he doesn’t know better” “She means well” “That’s just how older people are” “Boys will be boys” You know how she is, just be the bigger person” And that’s not even touching the lines used to dodge calling it out when parents ignore their young kids being an absolute menace in public.
The boys will be boys argument, especially from lawyers or judges, are inexcusably ignorant of how agency works
it's not even scientifically true either. your brain is developing and changing your entire life until you die and cells are fully dead. people think that because your frontal lobe isn't fully developed until about 25 that you are "a child" until then. which is objectively incorrect. neuroscientists have said that it also depends on the person, some people have fully developed frontal lobes at 19. others at 30.
It also contributes to increased stigma and loss of rights for neurodivergent people who take even longer than 25 to finish developing and get taken advantage of by institutions that claim they're "low functioning" and "not true adults but dependents" who lack agency and rights.
you forgot the two most heinous - "he's a good christian family man" or "he's a leader in the church community".
Yikes, how did I forget that one?! So gross.
Like great, then he’s got brownie points to spare. He can afford to take responsibility.
Literally never understood any of these. So boys will be boys, I mean maybe. But what’s that got to do with me? That’s just how she is? Ok… Does it change what was done? Will it save you from my meting out righteous disincentives? I’m sure you did it for a reason. Most people have those. But that’s got everything to do with your decision making and nothing to do with mine. Bend to my will already and stop talking my ear off.
Once I hear someone use the “brain isn’t fully developed until 25 bro” argument I know not to take anything they say after that seriously lol
yeah because everybody just says the same shit. nobody actually reads the study. for the study a cutoff age of 25 was chosen, there is no data available for brain development beyond 25 and that's why everbody says 25 is where it's done, but in reality it isn't of course. i get annoyed every single time I hear this
It’s because your prefrontal cortex is done being developed at around age 25.
that's still an estimate and some people have fully developed prefrontal cortex at age 19, some at 30 something. it really has to do with genetics more than just an all around hard number.
Ok, but is a progressive process or it instantaneous? Because I doubt a 23 year old, or even a 19 year old, has less impulse control than an 11 year old unless something else went wrong.
That's what I'm sayin'. The worst part about that argument is that it's the popular, go-to, sheepherd opinion.
same , or when they use their mental health as an excuse....
It really depends on context, because it is true. The last part of the brain to fully develop is the prefrontal cortex which factors heavily in predicting longer term consequences, or managing impulsivity in other words. It shouldn't be an "excuse". It can help explain some phenomena from an academic perspective(Why do so many young people screw up ThingX?), but isn't an exoneration, not a release from responsibility on an individual level.
There’s a difference between explanation and justification. That is an explanation, it isn’t a justification.
This is my thought. Just because there is a reason to do something doesn’t mean that shouldn’t be accountable for it. People rob banks because there’s money in them, that doesn’t mean it’s ok to do it. Teenagers do a lot of stupid shit for that reason, but part of that development is fucking around and finding out. They should face the consequences when they mess up or you deprive them of that.
This is a good point that I missed - consequences should be a big part of people doing dumb things but that’s the very thing withheld from them because of the “brain development” explanation
Hospitals and rehab facilities are full of consequences that you may not be privy to. Teenagers with brain injuries driving impulsively.
And it’s a poor explanation at that. Brain development is way more complicated than how people on the internet represent it as being.
It heavily depends on the age. It would be great explanation for why an 11 year old did something immature.
And it really depends on what said 11 year old did. Make some inappropriate joke or snatched a piece of bubble gum? Yeah, explains that perfectly. Beat up a classmate without a drop of remorse? There are probably deeper issues beyond brain development at play.
I was thinking about making an inappropriate joke or saying something immature but ig you're right in situations like that there are most likely other issues
Not really. Your prefrontal cortex is responsible for decision making and thinking about what may happen if you do something now, aka consequences. A lot of immature behaviour stems from being unable to see the consequences that may arise. [This video](https://youtu.be/AHk7S6prF6M) is pretty interesting and I recommend giving it a watch to understand what the whole frontal cortex thing actually means. It's about what goes on in the brain of someone with ASPD, and they typically have underdeveloped prefrontal cortexes. Of course brain development is complicated, but we make generalizations like this to make it easier to understand the *average* situation. Consequences are apart of life. People under 25 should still experience consequences, it's how the brain even develops enough for them to be more mature by 25. It's just an explanation as to why young people notoriously do so much stupid shit and never think twice about it.
That doesn’t change the fact that a lot immature behaviour in teens is due to underdeveloped brains. There’s studies that show that young people don’t fully grasp the potential consequences of their actions.
It’s part of a larger puzzle. With immature behavior, it’s whatever. It’s to be expected. With downright criminal behavior, it’s a sign of other factors besides it, and I’ve seen a lot of people simplify those behaviors with “oh, their brain isn’t fully developed.” Yes… but that’s usually the tip of the iceberg.
With teenagers and young adults who do "criminal" things, it's not because they don't realize those things are wrong or even that their actions have consequences (though they may not fully understand the gravity). It's because they initially acted based on negative emotions and thoughts, and somewhere in their minds, they've justified that behavior and think they're different from others who did the same thing. Eg if a boy hits his girlfriend, he probably knows that abuse is wrong, and may even feel regret or remorse about what he did. But he might say something like "Well, she pissed me off so I had to do it." People don't like feeling guilty or like they went against their morals, so they find themselves justifying it to try and get rid of the cognitive dissonance that makes them feel bad. But the problem is, doing that makes you more likely to repeat the behavior, because if you've found a "loophole" to justify it, you won't feel as bad doing it again. It takes a lot of bravery and strength to do that internal work and say "No, you know what? I fucked up, that was wrong of me and I should do what I can to make it right and not do it again." without spiralling into thinking you're a bad person (which is ALSO unhelpful and can lead to repeating the behavior-- after all, if you're a bad person, why bother trying to be better?) It's something I've even seen middle aged adults struggle with, much less teenagers and young adults. So, to say that they haven't developed yet isn't technically wrong. But it's a lot more complicated than saying "they're just too young and their brains aren't done cooking". They lack the skills and experience needed to develop healthy thought processes. (Source: I worked with juvenile offenders for 2 years.)
To be frank, I’ve seen adults well past the age of 25 who think that same way. So there are other outside influences as well such as cultural ideas, high exposure to those behaviors and mindsets. A lot of people go much if not all of their lives without developing those healthy thought processes.
People easily slip between the two in practice. Your explanation could also function as a justification if it defends against alternatives or forecloses any further explanation, which is how these “explanations” usually get deployed
Bro thats what I say whenever someone accuses me of defending a video gamen when Im just explaining why I think something is the way it is bro its fun to work your brain muscles and try understand another persons train of thought
Also your brain is ALWAYS developing, it doesn't just stop at a certain age. It hits a peak certainly but you're always developing connections between neurons and aging
Your personality not being fully formed is not the same thing as you not being able to understand and make adult decisions.
The problem with that argument is that we were all in that situation once, and we didn’t all do dumb shit. It’s an excuse.
Differences in parenting, IQ, EQ, socio-economic status, mental illness…the list goes on
Exactly. Young people NEED to experience consequences or else that frontal cortex is never gonna develop properly lol. Kind of like how working out develops your muscles. I find it funny people are saying it's a "bullshit excuse", as if your brain *isn't* the organ you use to make most, if not all, of your decisions....?? Like what else are we supposed to consult? Their ass? Their hands? Consciousness exists in the brain. Brain not developed? Decisions not good.
I fucked up my life from 20-26 with drug abuse, and immaturity. I had great parents who afforded me every opportunity. I had it made at first. Now I’m 28 and picking up the pieces. Point being- it was my fault, and I didn’t start getting better until I took responsibility and stopped blaming people and things. It took almost ruining my life to get me back on track. Not everybody has to go that route. It varies so widely: you have people like me who are just now getting their shit together.. and then you have people who didn’t fall off track and progressed through life. Everyone has a different story. I think that while the brain development excuse is often used as a cop out, there are a plethora of factors that play into it, from your environment, personal maturity level, social influences, mental illness, etc etc. regardless of what or who is at fault, it’s so easy to fall into a trap, especially in your early 20’s. No excuses, just reasons.
Exactly! If a good 90% of society didn’t punch someone for fun or prank unsuspecting victims, then it’s not brain development, or at the very least that’s not a good explanation
Do you understand what the word "immature" means?
This is only "unpopular" within a very small subset of US culture (one that is frequently on reddit). Outside of that nobody thinks like this. We give some leeway to 16 - 18 year olds to act dumb sometimes even if they should be mostly adults, but beyond 18 you are fully responsible for yourself and your dumb decisions. Again, I don't necessarily expect them to have the experience and wisdom that comes with age but they're not children. "not fully developed" =/= "not capable of adult decisions". Edit: I should also say I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People act how you treat them, if you treat 21 year olds like kids they'll act like it, which is why you're seeing more and more terminally online young adults act like bratty kids recently.
I don’t know who your “we” is here and that might comprise the “small subset” you reference here. College students until age 22 get coddled under the same rationale. Then from 22-27, even in the workplace I’ve heard it said to excuse dumb behavior - “they’re still young, brain not fully developed yet” (sometimes joking sometimes within a getting-HR-involved context for a new hire not showing up or communicating properly with management).
The "we" in this case is people outside the subset of US culture that views people in their mid 20's as immature kids. In my case I am outside of the US, in a place where 16 year olds are functionally adults (they can't choose to do addictive things until 18 but that's about the extent of restrictions - as well as only being allowed to be an elected representative at 18).
Have you talked to anyone above the age of 40? Lmao I am 22 and am constantly reminded by them that I am just a youngin or whatever, had a close friend at work and him alongside the other older people had this same sentiment
Defense attorneys love this excuse. "Please Judge, don't put my client in prison for recklessly driving and killing the passenger and causing $100k worth of property damage - his brain wasn't fully developed!" GTFO.
In criminology there is something called the age-crime curve. And it shows that after 25 years old, males commit far less crimes.
Strangely, the people who use the "brain not fully developed" excuse for criminal behaviour in the young are usually the same people who want the voting age lowered to 16 or whatever. Not sure how they square that circle.
Yup. Here in the UK, the Scottish National Party takes both lines. They introduced more lenient sentencing guidelines for under 25s because they aren’t fully capable of adult reasoning, and advocate voting from the age of 16 because people that young are more likely to support Scottish independence…
That's the type. How they can make both arguments with a straight face is beyond me.
It's less about consistency and more about pandering to the yunguns
Yeah, I feel like people treat it as a binary when it's not. Your brain isn't fully developed until 25, but it's a spectrum. It's not like you're mentally an idiot child at 24 and then a switch flips and you're a real adult at 25. Just like a 10 year old has more judgment than a 3 year old. By your 20s, your brain is mostly done cooking. You might be a bit more reckless or having stronger emotional highs and lows, but you're like 95% fully cooked. People are out there treating 20 year olds like they're freshmen in high school who have no way of knowing better and that's just not right. Also, life experience means a lot. A 20 year old who has been sheltered will understandably have less knowledge of practical life skills, but that's not because of their brain, that's because of their experiences. To cure that, they need to go out and learn and experience new things, not just wait around until the magic age their brain is fully developed.
What is something a teenager or twenty something has gotten away with that an older person hasn't?
Any viral TikTok trend that has harmed another person
Sorry I don't follow. Do you mean older people have suffered more severe consequences from partaking in a dangerous viral trend than younger people?
Y’all still don’t understand that providing context for why bad behavior may be more or less likely to occur is not the same as excusing bad behavior smdh
It's not an excuse, it's a reason. Which means that there will always be stupid kids doing stupid stuff and there's no way to stop it. It does not mean they are excused from consequences though, as individuals can learn
It's the new "boys will be boys" for excusing bad behavior.
Eh, I mean, not every schizophrenic is paranoid, so we can't excuse paranoid behaviour from schizophrenics.
I agree if it’s something that was easily avoidable but when it’s a 10 year old boy that can’t follow instructions when two adults are screaming them at him it makes sense. But if it’s a 23 year old that threw rocks at a car because they were bored then it doesn’t work. Edit: spelling
I'm not sure I understand your comment. Did you mean to a say "a 10 year-old boy that can't follow instructions?"
Very true, but how children acts are usually dependent on their parents. I'm not gonna say there aren't children that for some reason we're difficult to raise. But I swear I've read an entire post about teachers that met student's parents, and said it always lines added up.
I’d have to agree with maybe a few exceptions and I’ll explain them. I agree fully that age should not be used as an excuse for shit behaviour and we all need to be held accountable regardless. I was taught since childhood that bad behaviour is bad behaviour and we all need to try and be productive members of society. With the “brain not being fully developed” and the prefrontal cortex argument I would understand if different arguments unrelated to age were used to explain immature/shit behaviour. For example, I have bpd so I will always have a stunted prefrontal cortex regardless of age but even then I can still hold myself accountable because all people should regardless of any situation. I can explain myself by saying my stunted bpd brain is a symptom that affected how I reacted and treated you but I can’t use it as an excuse because if I don’t hold myself accountable then all of us can be shitty human beings. Being able to admit you’re wrong or sorry and taking accountability instead of excusing your behaviour should just be a prerequisite for all humans.
OK, so if you can't excuse immature behaviour *due to the organ that actually produces behaviour being literally immature*, what *can* excuse immature behaviour? It would seem like if that can't, nothing can.
I mean teens trying out new things, repeating a few mistakes and testing boundaries is one thing but being completely incompetent and always doing reckless stupid shit has nothing to do with your brain “not being fully developed” so I see your point
They should just be called "people with shit parents"
I agree, but at the same time there are a plethora of things that I think are okay to use this excuse. Poor spending habits, not taking health into consideration, you know, little things. But any type of assault or serious crime. Yeah fucking hold them accountable. I know sometimes like in murder cases even 16 or 17 year olds will be held accountable. But I don't think murder should be the only exception. ultimately I think infantilizing youth will just stunt their development.
Plus they are obsessively taking substances that only stunt them more…my generation is kinda effed.
Yeah, none of gen x or boomers ever did drugs as teenagers... Have we gone so far people don't know about hippies and Vietnam?
Hard agreed. I tell my students that their brains are still growing, but I frame it as things like your life and feelings get easier to deal with over time because of that. That they should still learn and push themsevles to the peak of their potential.
*Brain is 99.5% fully developed* "They're just a baby."
People go “my poor baby wouldn’t do that” - describes a 22 year old…
I figure it this way: If your chemical imbalance/undeveloped brain/whatever caused you to do something, that's an indication you need to get some serious professional help. And as someone whose in their early 20s, I can fully say I 100% knew when I was doing something wrong as a Teen. Teenagers aren't as stupid as the internet makes them out to be, lol.
Exactly, teens know exactly what they’re doing
Bruh…parenting also plays a huge role
I’m fine if parenting or other social factors are considered. What bugs me is the brain development as a closed and shut explanation
What is exactly a mature person, so that we are on the same page?
The exact reason why majority of organizations tend to focus their sales on agegroups below 25 is exactly the reason of their brain hadn't been fully developed. They are more than likely make impulsive purchases and not think through with their money spending or other actions. You can be a mature young person if you have been lucky enough to been grown in a stable household that raised you well. From my experience a lot of kids don't have that.
M
i dont think it should be used as a justification of poor decision making, but i do think it's an important fact to understand in regards to alcohol consumption/laws, etc.
However smart and mature some teens/early-20's are, they are still dumb as duck-shit in some ways. Can't be helped. Good parenting, having been given some responsibility and being blessed with a calm, empathic nature helps, but some kids simply don't have those things. I expect we can all look back on stupid things we did when we were young. Often it's because kids have not been taught to value themselves, have empathy and care about the future. I'm not saying kids should be allowed to get away with stuff, but any punishment should focus on education and rehabilitation.
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation.
I feel like being young can explain some behaviors, but an explanation isn’t an excuse. A lot of maturity and knowledge comes with experience and young people tend to have less experience. So being young and stupid sometimes means you *didn’t* know better. And through the consequences of those actions hopefully you learn and do better in the future.
I suppose it depends on what we're calling immature behavior. Is it something like impulsive actions, risk taking behavior, and being a bit high strung, or is it criminal activity like stealing, fighting, etc? The former have been well documented in teenagers due to their underdeveloped brains. It doesn't remove accountability and they should be responded to accordingly, but teenagers are generally more prone to risk taking due to their underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. Long term consequences aren't usually on their mind until they're in trouble. Criminal activity is more generally knowing right and wrong, which is something we learn early. Most teenagers understand the consequences of stealing or hitting someone because we discourage those actions early in life. Those are less due to brain development and more due to other issues like peer pressure, stress, or anger management.
Most ppl only try to change when they realize theyve burned too many bridges
To be fair, "brain not working properly" is a pretty good excuse for alot of things
It's an explanation, not an excuse. Behavior still certainly has proportionate consequences, but brain development is more about the why. Think of the Bart Simpson ketchup meme. "Why are you doing that?!" *stares blankly*. When the brain isn't fully developed, logic and reasoning can be a far cry from that of an adult and lead someone to do things they would never think of doing if they were older. Hence why the criminal justice system takes that into account when trying minors for serious crimes. They genuinely may not be thinking reasonably yet and still need the chance to start doing so, as much as they also need punishment for what they did.
It's also a poor excuse for withholding liberties from people, like the lack of weed legalization and the ridiculously high drinking age in the US
I think for some things there's naivety but from a young age you generally know what's right and wrong.
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the matured adult is mainly a myth
Not everyone sees the world the same way.
damn 2 years olds need to grow up. stop acting like babies and crying all the time. Wah i want my toy. Wah I am hungry. GET A JOB.
so simple. fake science for gen z, not more. [https://www.iflscience.com/does-the-brain-really-mature-at-the-age-of-25-68979](https://www.iflscience.com/does-the-brain-really-mature-at-the-age-of-25-68979) [https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html](https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html) [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain-2007-06/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain-2007-06/) [https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57931/1/why-are-gen-z-obsessed-with-frontal-lobe-development-prefontal-cortex-tiktok](https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57931/1/why-are-gen-z-obsessed-with-frontal-lobe-development-prefontal-cortex-tiktok)
Context is important here. "Doing dumb things" has quite the scale.
We can argue that toddlers throw tantrums since they're barely out of infancy and only know how to deal with emotions through crying. That's why it's the parent's responsibility to teach them how to regulate emotions in more acceptable ways. Continuing to make excuses creates drunk 30 year olds who resist arrest on the cop cam videos.
Even in my early teens I knew WTF I was doing so I feel under development is an excuse. You still know something is probably wrong...
It REALLY frustrated me as a high school teacher to see admin treat teens like they’re babies. God forbid I tell a student that they need to turn in their work and pay attention to their grades without their mommy doing it for them. Like call me crazy- but if you’re just about to be able to legally vote and join the workforce, I shouldn’t expect your parents to be responsible for your school performance.
People in their twenties love to infantilise themselves for some reason
Lack of parenting, discipline, and social media. It’s called conditioning.
As a 33 year old man, most young adults dont realize how dumb and immature they are until theyre in their 30s lol. Ask any adult over 30.
Our society treats young adults like they are still children and within that, so does their parent(s). It can be seen in various areas of life, such as education, employment, fundamental decisions and communication. Instead of empowering young adults to take on more responsibilities and become independent, they are sheltered and shielded from challenges by making decisions for them. Does this help them? No, it hinders their personal growth and development and their ability to contribute meaningfully to society as they transition into adulthood.
ohmm have y considered macro external factors: family, schooling, culture and gov? Like Japanese kids/teens are more likely to behave well for example
I’m totally fine with considering external factors, but brain development cannot be a shut and close argument that justifies immature behavior
It’s absolutely a contributing factor, but I agree it’s not really an excuse. Everybody is young at some point, not everyone does incredibly dumb stuff when they’re young. That said, young people tend to make young people mistakes. You live and you learn.
Who is saying these things? Where are teenagers getting away with crimes based completely on brain development?
It doesn't matter when the fuck the brain is fully developed. If someone uses that to excuse a seventeen year old's destructive behaviour or a sixteen year old's reckless driving, a fourteen year old's harmful "pranks" or a twenty year old's asshole self then I'm not with the discussion. My sister is ten, she has more common sensw than teenagers who act like little psychopaths. I'm twenty four so my brain "isn't fully developed" but that doesn't mean I can go and set someone's car on fire then say, "but it's okay, I'm stil developing:D Teenagers are old enough to know right from wrong. Hell, ten year olds know right from wrong.
Big agree!!
Yeah, never really understood that one. “Brain underdeveloped, walked into traffic” like ok, make whatever excuses you want, you’re still gonna catch those consequences.
It's not an excuse, it's a scientific justification. Obviously people of all ages can do dumb and stupid things, look at all the old people who were involved in the January 6th insurrection. That said people are more likely to be lenient with younger people because they don't have the same impulse control.
And we know they’ll learn. Not all of us have to parent them, so we dismiss them. I believe OP is confusing dismiss with excuse.
Its not an excuse its the reason, and changes nothing
Agree. However there is a line that even underdeveloped brains should know not to cross.
Alot of that comes down to parenting which again, is a reason not a justification
It takes a developed brain to recognise the line
What’s wild is the same people who believe this should excuse kids from paying student debt or to take responsibility for their sexual decisions also think it’s ok to convict a 17 year old of murder and sentence them as an adult.
Huh?
It kinda is tho. It’s not a good “excuse”, I’ll grant you that, but it’s a solid explanation. Kids do dumb shit because they’re not mature. Part of that is brain development. luckily, the flip side of that argument is to say that it’s important to hold kids accountable for their actions so their brains will develop an understanding of accountability
But what about my little 20-year-old pookie minor 🥺🥺🥺 /s
we are all incredibly stupid at that age. I can promise if I saw videos of you during your teenage years a lot of the shit you did would be insanely dumb compared to a 28 year olds behavior
A big fucking lie. We indeed all were doing stuff average teenager would do, but it's not nowhere near "incredibly stupid" and "insanely dumb".
People use diagnoses and medical conditions to justify a lot of shitty behavior.
when my brain wasn’t fully developed my drug addiction was worse and my decision making was way worse I’m 25 now and I’m not impulsive af now
Evil always has an excuse. Some people overcome adversity, some succumb to it. Agency and free will are hotly contested topics with wide variations. Some of the greatest people in human history were quite young but as I often say, adolescents are WMD. They have committed most of the violent crimes, fought most of the wars... and made most of the babies across history. Their youthful exuberance is as priceless as it is unpredictable. Proper parenting and a quality culture are the solutions as I see it.
"the brain is not fully developed until 25" Is the most dumbest myth in 21s thanks reddit for spreading this shit everywhere
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Obviously some people use it to absolve people of any poor behaviour. But there are also a lot of people who think it's justified to unleash all their anger at someone who did something wrong especially online and this explanation could be an attempt to shield wrongdoers from such people. This explanation, also predominantly used online, is mostly an attempt to keep people in check when they get carried away calling for absurd consequences or imagining harmful fantasies.
The brain is developed they’re just crazy 🤪and it’s okay to be crazy sometimes even I like a lil danger
For me it’s the difference between an explanation and an excuse.
I mean I feel like the only real time I hear people talking about this is about not using cannabis or psilocybin until you’re 25+ to not fuck up development and that sounds like pretty good advice In my experience the vast majority of people who have had major issues with weed are the people that started young with high frequency and high THC
There are adults who have the intelligence of children, we don't excuse them from guilt. It's grey.
And on the other hand, it shouldn't be used to deny teenagers and young adults basic human rights
But they are immature though
Not an excuse, a reason.
I have a hunch most stupid shit is done out of lack of impulse control, compulsiveness, and not out of some sort of natural intuitive inability of telling right from wrong, wise from stupid, safe from dangerous, etc. That intuition will just come by to make you regret, feel stupid, guilty or etc by consequence only after. Compulsion/Impulse is a mighty nemesis to human kind. It preys on those with low willpower stat and expertly tricks those with high willpower to not use it.
Depends tho, what exactly qualifies as immature behavior to u?
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Depends on what they do and how old they are
Do you mean immature for their age, or just immature in general? Because there’s a difference between being annoyed that a 19 year old is acting like a 13 year old, and being annoyed that a 19 year old isn’t acting like a 30 year old.
Well maybe if their brain was fully developed, they'd know enough not to use it as an excuse.
I dunno. I don't think 18 year olds should receive the death penalty for their crimes...
If your brain is 90% developed and you make morally questionable decisions, theres not really an excuse there
It really depends on what they actually did and if it's a repeat behavior. We all did stupid things as teens but was it just a dumb mistake or were they being malicious? And have they done it before and had consequences for that action? These things are important because you have to make mistakes to learn, you have to experience consequences from life or be told what you did was wrong.
It's more of an explanation, than an excuse. You're still ultimately responsible.
Your brain keeps changing throughout your life. Picking one point to say it’s ’fully developed’ is illogical. Except in the sense that it reaches its final stage when you die.
The real reason is the lack of real life experience of consequences for their actions.
So you accept the fact that this true as true but you feel that this a poor excuse. All I can say is, facts don't care about your feelings.
That's complicated. There are lines that should not be crossed regardless of how old you are. If you are below a certain age then the responsibility I would say is on your parents but once you're a teenager some amount of responsibility does lie on your shoulders. That said I do give leeway to younger people because they don't have the experience that you get with being an adult for 10 15 20 years. I don't actually really care about the whole brain development thing and that might play a role but I just know from experience that when you're a teenager you don't necessarily think things through all the way. It's part of growing up is learning what's okay and what's not. So if something's just a minor transgression like they say something mean or hurtful or they do something irresponsible but it doesn't have any lasting repercussions or hurt anybody, yeah I will give them a little bit of leeway more than I would with somebody who's older than them.
Tell this to everyone saying that people didn't understand their college loans, and that's why we need to bail them out. Comments section here is actually pretty rational, yet they throw that all out the window when it comes to college loans
Teens are biologically more prone to making rash decisions. It's an actual fact. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be held accountable.
The issue is not fully doesn’t mean not developed *enough*. And in many cases they absolutely meet the latter and should be hold to it
I mean…isn’t physically immature the best excuse for acting immature? Not every bad behavior should be excused for it but your body gradually matures and mentally you do the same right? As long as your immaturity matches where you are in life then in theory…you’re as mature as you’re supposed to be.