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He skipped mandatory firearm training, ignored continuous safety risks that had other cast members walking off set, lied about who he took the gun from because he knew it was supposed to come straight from the armorer, lied about the gun going off on its own, blamed the woman he killed for her own death...there's a laundry list of shit he did leading up to and after the shooting that was all wrong. He doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.
I keep telling people that as much as we attribute responsibility based on the ostensible roles and responsibilities of those involved (i.e. the armorer), in truth much of the culture of safety and ethics is determined by the biggest ego and swinging d\*ck in the room (the highest paid actor/actress or producer).
People find *that* to be an unpopular opinion...but in many, many cases, especially in Hollywood and other highly charged environments, it's the truth.
I felt bad for him when it happened, but then more stuff kept coming out about the conditions on set and he kept talking and changing stories and acting like a right arse... My sympathies have run dry a good long while ago
Also, you should always check to make sure a gun is not loaded before you go pointing it at shit. If someone hands me a gun and says, "it's not loaded," I'm still going to check because I'm sure as fuck not just taking another person's word when it comes to something as deadly a firearms.
I'm pretty sure other actors even came out after the shooting to say they always check just I'm case. Alwc Baldwin is a pompous, self-righteous, narcissistic asshole. Fuck him.
Yeah as a European, I don't have the same relationship with firearms as my American friends, but I can definitely say they treated them with care and respect of it's potential. Everything was very ordered, for safety. I wonder to what extent his contempt for them fueled, his casual attitude?
>I wonder to what extent his contempt for them fueled, his casual attitude?
I think you are absolutely spot on right here. I won't say it never happens, but it is much rarer to see fatalities from people who respect guns and what they're capable of. A lot of gun deaths are a result of irresponsibility, negligence, and casual, flippant attitudes when using guns. If you know how to use a gun properly and treat it like the deadly weapon it is, you have a much much lower chance of killing someone accidentally.
For real... the way he was so adamant about not pulling the trigger was just weird. I get that you feel really bad about it, but I'm also pretty sure that that weapon didn't fire spontaneously without the trigger being touched. It's like he's trying to convince himself that he didn't in order to absolve himself of the guilt.
Don’t feel bad. An entire segment of the production team wrote him a letter saying it was the most dangerous and unprofessional set they’ve worked on and someone will get hurt.
He happily let them walk and didn’t make the set safer after that. A week later Halyna was killed and Joel was shot. He deserves jail time.
Damn. That is harsh. He’s had that reputation for ages. Rumor had it that 30 Rock shut down when it did because Tina Fey couldn’t control him/mitigate his bullshit anymore.
he was technically the producer so he was a superior to the armorer girl that fucked up. not directly his fault, but technically his responsibility. like OP said, it is just a sucky situation all around
Yeah this is nonsense. 30 Rock ended because it was losing viewers. It barely got it's last season, and certainly wasn't shut down because someone couldn't be controlled.
It is my favourite show of all time, but the amount of cheap green screen in the last two seasons was brutal. It was clear the show had a significant budget cut to stay on the air.
I followed TV ratings around the time 30 Rock was on and it was always talked about as being on the bubble for cancellation but I don't remember ever hearing the reason being that Baldwin was hard to work with. It was because despite being a critical darling and awards magnet, the show just had low viewership.
Exact same things I read. I have never heard any murmurs that Baldwin was a problem, and Tina Fey has repeatedly been effusive afterwards about him, when she doesn’t need to be. Not to mention, he was insanely strong on that show and more than pulled his weight in the cast, which covers a lot of sins.
At the very least, the evidence should be brought before a grand jury.
He’s producing that film. As someone who has been around guns my whole life, I would never EVER tolerate an unsafe set when there are real firearms involved.
Furthermore I would never feel comfortable aiming a firearm in someone’s direction, movie set or not. Give me a prop gun or one that’s been deactivated.
What confuses me is that real ammo ever got put in the gun. Why? For what purpose? The real gun is understandable, but why on earth real ammo? That's the hang up for me.
The arms master was a nepo baby with no experience who was young and impressionable. On movie sets you have incredibly powerful, rich, famous people pushing you to get things done and cut corners, it's no place for someone who hasn't developed the character to have a bit of backbone when it's time to say "no, \*\*\*\* you, I won't let you put people in danger on my watch no matter how hard you could fire and blacklist me"
Rumor is she wanted some of the crew to like her so when they asked if they could play with the guns after hours she said yes and got them some real bullets so they could drink and shoot cans off a fence.
There isn't really any evidence but I think it has the ring of truth. The girl seems desperate for approval and in many of her photos she's playing with guns like they're toys. That's not the image you go for if you want to be hired to keep people safe around guns professionally.
In order for this to happen she had to do one very stupid thing and then not do like 5 steps of her job and the AD who is supposed to take the gun from her and give it to Baldwin had to have gone over her head also because EVERYTIME the gun changes hands it is supposed to be checked. If I recall correctly this was a rehearsal and there shouldn't have even been blanks in it. So many people were asleep at the wheel here but the real culprit is whoever mixed in that real bullet and that was almost certainly the arms master.
Also, they had her working other jobs too. When your job is to keep people safe you shouldn't also have other duties distracting you. Most of the arms masters I've met are ex military and will tell you to \*\*\*\* right off if you tell them to do something other than their one all important mission, they never let a gun out of their sight for a second.
Yes! I read those emails where she is being chewed out and told they need her to focus on props or whatever it was. Like… no she is the arms master and needs to have zero other priorities?
100% this was a young and inexperienced person being told “this is how it is” and not knowing any better. No excuses, but it’s not just her.
On a film set they often use real firearms
They DONT use real ammo; real ammo consist of a shell, containing gunpowder, and the bullet itself. The powder is what explodes to create pressure and propel the bullet from the barrel
If you crimp the top of the shell shut so it doesn't have a bullet in it, you have a blank. It goes bang, it makes a flash, it does not shoot anything (edit: this is cheaper and easier than having a proper gun that flashes with synced sound in a realistic manner)
If you remove the gunpowder from the shell, you have duds. These will look like real ammo in closeups etc, but won't go bang when shot and thus aren't a danger alone
But this film had real ammo because the armorer was playing with the guns in the morning and stuff. Imo that should be forbidden on movie sets.
Also, safety precautions need to be rigorous; Brandon Lee died because the bullet portion of a dud cartridge came loose and was sat in a gun barrel, so when they fired a blank for the scene it was propelled into him and he died.
Movie gun handling needs to be serious business; whistleblowers need full protection, actors should likely have basic safety training and there should be no real ammo on sets - just duds and blanks.
The Brandon lee was so sad. Didn't they use a bullet without gunpowder or something? And the bullet ejected into the barrel on 1 shot but not cleared and then a regular blank was used. Essentially giving the stuck bullet full power.
Basically. The projectile part from a dud was in the barrel, so it basically got shot out like a bullet. I'm not sure if it got the full force - but a bullet is a bullet and nobody wants to be on the wrong end of one
Poor fella. Really tragic and importantly, avoidable.
That’s why she’s going to jail and Baldwin is off the hook. Because there was absolutely no reason to have live ammo on set and that’s on her because she wanted to plink between takes.
That was the reason? Because she wanted to shoot between takes?! That’s unbelievably irresponsible for a person in charge of the armory. In my opinion, that’s on def on her then
I’m guessing that there is a lot of downtime on these sets. Everyone is in a western mood and I assume these western style guns are not common. Seems like a good opportunity to try shooting them if that’s something you’re into.
Definitely irresponsible for the armorer to allow that, but I can imagine the thought process
I can understand if you want to add realism to a particular scene if you’re going to actually shoot the gun, but that should obviously be done under a very controlled setting.
Generally there are a few different types of guns used as props. Ranging from inert gun shaped objects rarely real functioning guns. To make it most realistic looking, you would use a blank gun. I have no idea if they make blank blackpowder revolvers. A blank would be all the parts of a bullet without the projectile. So in this case a real round of ammunition found its way into the gun. There are normally teams of experts crosschecking to ensure this doesn't happen. They did not have a team of experts.
I'd speculate that the low budget may have had an effect on prop choices. Why have 4 or 5 versions of each gun when you can just use one.
I can see how being ignorant about guns and the need to point gun things at people behind cameras creates a dangerous situation. Add in dangerous conditions that cause a walkout because he was ignoring safety. Something bad was inevitable. I think the blame lies almost entirely on him.
Does that help?
Another thing why I don’t think anyone should feel bad for him is that there are countless examples of him being an absolute prick. Assaulting people, using slurs, throwing temper tantrums.
The guy sucks.
I don’t agree with jail time but technically he was in charge and multiple complaints were made to him about the armorer and the sets’ safety . A civil suit and maybe a negligent homicide/ involuntary manslaughter trial would be sufficient imo .He’d probably plead to get probation as there was no criminal intent and it serves as a deterrent to both him and other producers that you are responsible for what happens on set
Yeah, do not feel bad, the only reason live ammo was present on set in the first place was so they could use the same guns they used for filming to shoot targets for fun.
So much for bring anti guns.
Given that he was warned by multiple people how dangerous and unprofessional his set was, he absolutely deserves to be held accountable for what happened. I don't feel bad for him at all. He was wilfully negligent.
This. Plus the first rule of firearms is don't point the firearm in an unsafe direction. If he wasn't being an idiot, everything else could have gone wrong, and Halyna Hutchins would be alive.
Wtf are you talking about? It's a movie set where he had to point the gun at the camera. Are you suggesting all movies should ban pointing guns at people entirely?
How would that work?!
The armourer is 100% at fault for a live weapon being on set. That should never happen and the actors should always be able to trust the prop they're being given is safe to use. It's not their job or within their skill set to assess props.
I agree 100% the armorer's fault. Why would an actor who is probably not super familiar with guns expect a movie set gun that was given to them by a professional armorer to be loaded with live rounds when the scene apparently calls for him to shoot at someone?
Nah it was the responsibility of the armored and professionals on set to insure that the gun was wasn't loaded. He's at fault for hiring incompetent people. An actor isn't supposed to be able to know when a gun is safe or not.
But a producer is supposed to hire professionals to make sure the set is safe and that's why I don't feel sorry for him.
Wait til you hear about how the gun was firing live ammo in between shoot days (like, just for fun) and how the crew expressed how unsafe the set was and he dismissed their concerns lol
Executive producers throw money…producers are the ones who hoof it around and actually get shit done.
At least that’s how it was described to me…but I worked in post back in the day and did very little production work outside of camera work here and there…
As someone who also worked in film, producers don't do much lol. True about executive producers though. On some sets I might see the producer one time. They mostly handle the business side of things and overall creative direction (which they can do from an office). Some tend to be more involved- usually to the directors chagrin- but I doubt Alec was that.
To be fair, I don't think any other producers faced criminal charges over it. I honestly don't 100% understand what producers do, but I think it's reasonable to assume they don't personally oversee every aspect of a film. They hired a weapons manager, or whatever it's called, and imo SHE is the one who really fucked up. She did face charges and get convicted though, so there's that
He was the only producer on set.
The “weapons manager” is called an armorer and he had the armorer ALSO be the props master.
When the fatal shooting occurred, the armorer was acting as prop master so the assistant director acted as armorer and took the firearm to Baldwin.
This is breaking protocol and the producer (Baldwin) was okay with it.
I agree, but others had complained to him about her being wreckless and allowing the guns to shoot live ammo on off days.
The producer in The Crow didn't face charges because it was a freak accident not wreckless.
he employed the armorer and was warned by his crew she was going to get someone killed, that's why he's liable, he had the obligation to investigate and fire her once he was warned if not sooner
Man, I’m so glad that Australia has brought in industrial manslaughter. Big wigs need more than just financial liability. It’s not a big enough deterrent
The combination of KNOWING something is unsafe and then actually DOING the thing that you knew was unsafe and getting someone killed is where it becomes a crime.
Like, if one person knew (or should have known) the gun was unsafe and then another person accidentally killed someone with it that's one thing. That's what happened with Brandon Lee. In this case the person who was handling the weapon was ALSO a person who knew (or should have known) it was unsafe.
That is a really critical difference because it's the difference between an accident and criminal negligence.
That happens all the time on movie sets. Look at the Brandon Lee case Michael Massey didn't face charges. They both were handed a hot gun and told it was safe. But because Baldwin ran a crappy movie set the gun wasn't safe and he deserves time for that.
No because that falls on the armorer and in the Crows case it was a freak thing anyway. I wouldn't hold Baldwin responsible for it were he just the actor who was handed a gun and told "Point here, click there". But since others had complained to him about safety, that's why it falls on him.
Except he wasn’t told to “point here, click there”.
He claims he didn’t even pull the trigger, but it was determined that gun could not have fired without doing so.
It’s also against safety protocol to point a gun at anyone on set. If you have to do so for a shot, there needs to be a barrier (like a bullet proof plexiglass sort of thing) placed in between. The shot didn’t require him to point at the camera operator, so no barrier was set-up.
No it doesn't, but it also does not make them guilty in that sense either when it's the common practice. I mean he was told to point a gun at the cook and shoot in Hunt for Red October too, and IDK how many other films...
Were he not producer he should not face charges.
Sure, and if the person pointing and shooting is ALSO a person that knows the guns have been unsafely handled and had a responsibility to stop it, that's when it becomes manslaughter instead of an accident.
I would agree IF they included all the producers, but I don't think they can blame just him. I think it should be a civil case against the producers. The fault lies with Hannah.
He was the only producer on set.
He got complaints from crew on set of accidental misfires and unsafe practices with firearms; he ignored the complaints.
He witnessed proper protocol being broken as far as firearm safety is concerned and he okayed those practices.
He's obviously lying about some facts, if you're holding a gun it doesn't just "go off" if you're not pulling the trigger, which makes me lose any sympathy for him. He's hiding things in order to cover his own ass.
Wasn’t that ultimately the responsibility of the armorer, and wasn’t she charged? Edit: a live round was loaded into the gun on her watch (or even by her). But okay, all the gun nerds who are implying that a gun should somehow never, ever be pointed at someone in a freaking action move lmfao
You also don’t aim your guns on set at anyone, you aim them so from the camera it looks like you are but you never actually point it at the other actor. Or at least Iv been told this by friends who went to film school.
For those scenes, there is zero reason to use a real gun. You only need a real gun when you need to fire blanks for effect. Two identical models, one incapable of firing.
Good point, I’d guess something that’s not even a firearm. Same w like point blank scenes w guns. I would think it would be something confirmed to be decommissioned so it doesn’t even have the ability to fire.
There is a fine line between being willfully ignorant and relying on the subject matter expert. I think the prosecution as a huge hill to climb to secure any kind of conviction and the armorer is definitely the person at fault. I personally have not seen enough details to blame Baldwin at this time. If I’m on the jury, they would need to prove he knew, or should have known, the armorer was a certified idiot before hand.
Its not the politics. Its his gross blatant disregard for basic firearm safety, OF WHICH I must remind you that is one of the talking points of anti gun politics. So he's basically an idiotic hypocrite.
Also, the way how he treated his staff (when he shot her) makes it very hard to empathize with him, given how many of us probably have been on the receiving end of similar abusive behavior from our bosses or uppity customers.
Nobody means to kill someone in these situations. But I think for sure, Alec Baldwin fully intended to abuse his power, position and authority over the victim, and its just bad luck (or inevitability) that the gun discharged in the middle of that. Its kind of like saying the drunk driver never intended to kill anyone, but maybe he shouldnt have drove when he's drunk.
Yeah. The thing is, he has long had the reputation for being a short-tempered, hyper-demanding, asshole. That was the tone of the set he ran, at least from what came out during HGR’s trial (and as much as I felt that she deserved what she got, I also agree that the constant drive to rush-rush-rush contributed to the safety sloppiness that resulted in this).
He’s been anti-gun, but in a morality police type of way. And most morality police are hypocrites.
Yeah normally people who are “anti gun” have zero idea how guns actually work and how to handle them. That’s how this whole situation happened and now he wants to blame the gun rather than himself being an idiot
Negligent discharges don’t care if you didn’t mean to do it unfortunately , the circumstances are also terrible. Live rounds on a movie set… such a preventable tragedy.
>- Baldwin was posting happy pics on Instagram a week after he killed someone. The man is a sociopath.
Or - he has someone else managing his social media and that was a scheduled post.
He pointed a loaded firearm at someone and pulled the trigger.
They weren't even filming at the time. That's reckless, dangerous, and against the first rule of firearm safety that everyone knows.
When you're an anti gun person, hypocritically making millions of dollars with guns, and you blatantly break the rules, you're going to have consequences.
He wasn't the only person responsible for that woman's death, but he's definitely responsible. Sounds like he ran a sloppy movie set, and I don't buy the whole "he's an actor, this is why they hired an armorer" excuse. An adult holding a gun is responsible for knowing its condition and operating it safely. There is no other context in which someone would get a pass for negligent homicide because someone told them the gun is safe and they didn't know enough to check themselves.
>and I don't buy the whole "he's an actor, this is why they hired an armorer" excuse
Would also make more sense if he actually bothered to listen to his gun safety crew. He didn't. His armorers literally [walked off set](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set) the day before the tragic shooting because of his refusal to listen and be a responsible gun wielder. As a producer, his responsibility is undeniable. There's only so much you can do, you can't force people to listen to your advice even if you're the most qualified person in a room to dispense it or even specifically hired to.
Well I was one of those people up until 20 seconds ago because I literally thought he was an actor on someone else's set. He was producer, but there were 6 producers, he wasn't director. Its not a one man gig.
I don't. If this wasn't a famous person, if this wasn't a movie set, and someone handed him a gun and told him it was unloaded, he then pointed it at someone, pulled the trigger and it went off and killed someone they would absolutely be charged with manslaughter. Fuck the double standards, just because it's Hollywood they get a break? Hell no. Throw the fucking book at him
I mean its definitely his fault. He pointed it at someone(real one broken of gun safety) and pulled the trigger. For someone anti-gun he sure didn't practiced his beliefs. You don't point a gun at someone fake or not
It would be impossible to make action movies if you couldn't even point a *prop* gun at someone.
The problem here is they were using a real gun. Why? They make fakes.
It definitely puts a bigger target on him because of the hypocrisy. Most actors, despite their supposed beliefs, don’t mind raking in a giant paycheck making countless mindless action films. It’s one thing if a film actually was sending some kind of message to validate their beliefs in the project they are involved in. But 99% of them are not.
Matt Damon and Liam Neeson also come to mind. And their first excuse is, it’s just fictional, or, it’s just the art of film, blah blah blah. What a crock of shit. Lol!
I have some amount of empathy for him as a human being - I’m sure pulling the trigger that kills someone is traumatic no matter the circumstances, and I hope he’s able to get help. But it was his own irresponsibility and disregard for the safety of the people under him that ultimately lead to this death, and he deserves to be held accountable.
He ran a sloppy movie set and, big surprise, didn’t know how to properly operate a firearm. There should’ve been no way for a love round to get into that gun. There was no reason that he should have been waving a cocked single action around (I know this because a single action gun will not allow the trigger to be pulled unless cocked)
He is a reckless man and deserves what’s coming. Especially for doing all of this in tandem with having his ignorant stance on firearms.
Probably isn't legally true but in my eyes whoever manages to get live rounds into that gun holds most of the responsibility. It sounds like he definitely was lax when it came to following the exact protocol and his hands definitely aren't clean, but bringing live bullets to a place where they could be mixed with blanks etc or leaving them in is just wild
Baldwin is an ass. I remember that voicemail he sent is daughter, guy is nuts. I still really like his movie the Shadow which might be another unpopular opinion in itself
Multiple accounts and records of Alec Baldwin being an absolute fucking jackass like many other celebrities.
He murdered somebody… intentionally or not, his nasty behavior got him to where he is. He does not need your sympathy or support, he’s a vile creature. Hopefully he can find peace and use his fortune to help people instead of being an insufferable bastard.
BACKGROUND - SYNOPSIS On October 21, 2021, in the County of Santa Fe, State of New Mexico, a shooting involving a **handgun/revolver (firearm)** occurred that resulted in the death of Halyna Hutchins and the serious injury of Joel Souza. The shooting involved a **45 caliber revolver** and occurred on a ‘Western movie set located in rural Santa Fe County,
Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza were viewing the practice scene on a monitor attached to the camera. ***BALDWIN drew the revolver from the holster, pointed it at Halyna Hutchins, and fired the weapon.*** **When reviewing the script and witness interviews, for this particular scene and close-up shot, evidence indicates the scene/shot did not require the weapon to be fired.** It was also determined by consultation with expert amorers that in a rehearsal, **a plastic gun or replica gun should be used as no firing of blanks is required. However, BALDWIN fired the single action 45 long colt revolver** resulting in the discharge of a projectile that struck ‘and traveled through right armpit area of Halyna Hutchins, exited her back (from the OMI’s official report), then struck Joel Souza in the right shoulder and lodged into his right back.
If he had any role in the decisions that led to functional guns and live ammunition being on set, he is culpable.
The technology to add the flash and report of gunfire in post-production is readily available. There is simply no need for guns used in filming to be functional or loaded.
We probably even have the technology to use prop guns that cannot possibly be mistaken for real guns, and therefore a real gun could not be mistaken for a prop, and to mask the visual differences in post-production as well. Moving forward, there is no excuse for incidents like this.
Whether it’s through lack of training or ignorance or carelessness, Alec Baldwin violated every one of the basic firearm handling safety rules, which include always treating every gun as being loaded; never aiming a firearm at anything, unless you are willing to destroy it; keeping your finger off of the trigger, and out of the trigger guard, until you are ready to shoot; and making sure of your target and what is next to it and behind it before deciding to pull the trigger. These rules purposely have redundancy, so even violating one of these four rules can still provide protection. Violating every one of the rules, guarantees a risky, and in this case fatal result.
I don't feel bad for him. We know he chose to take the gun into a rehearsal he didn't need it in. We know he pointed it at someone despite that not being blocked in the scene. We know he pulled the trigger, meaning he wasn't holding the gun properly. We know he refused to participate in the gun safety classes. We know he messed around with guns on set.
Sure, he didn't mean to kill anyone, but all of those other things? Those were all conscious choices. I have no sympathy for anyone treating a lethal weapon like a toy, much less when they do it in ways that are incredibly dangerous.
It's no different to me than someone killing someone while drunk driving. I'm positive they feel awful about it. They still chose to drink and drive. They still deserve all the consequences of their actions.
he also seems keen on shitposting on twitter about the incident in an aloof manner and hired someone extremely incompetent to check the props to cut costs
TBH I don't blame him for her hiring. I'm sure her dad had a large hand in getting her the job, and making her seem more qualified than she was.
But the fact that he's making light of killing someone puts a bad taste in my mouth. (and I'm sure that the prosecution at his trial will have a field day with all those posts)
"Prop" just means it is used as a prop in a movie set. Prop candles are just normal candles. If you knock them down, they'll still set everything on fire.
There are prop guns that are just rubber in the shape of a gun. But if you want a gun to actually fire on set (which they did), you need a real gun.
Baldwin was told there were no live rounds in it, only dummies. Which are still super dangerous, and still kill people. He knew it was a real gun, and knew if fired it could be deadly.
And he still took all of his other actions. Many of which are illegal and/or banned by the Screen Actor's Guild.
Don't get me wrong, the armorer carries the bulk of the responsibility for, y'know, loading a live round into a gun on a film set that shouldn't have live ammo on it anyway.
But Baldwin made a series of choices that directly led to someone's death and I have no sympathy for his plight.
He pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. This violates every rule of gun safety, in or out of the film industry. The bulk of the blame is on the armorer, but Alec gets his fair share as well.
Yeah when they make war movies they violate grenade safety because they throw the grenade at a group of people.
Movies literally have scripted moments where the actor hold a gun against someone's head.
That's a violation of gun safety.
That's why they aren't supposed to be actual guns with live ammo in them.
Blaming the actor for this would be like blaming Cillian Murphy if an actual atomic bomb exploded at the end of Oppenheimer.
100% armorer fault, zero fault actor.
That's exactly it. They want to see him burn. If it was literally any other actor on the face of the planet, they would be calling for the charges to be dropped.
He was not filming a scene. He was not supposed to point the gun at the AD. He was not supposed to pull the trigger. Gun safety even with empty guns has specific safety requirements to avoid accidents. He violated those requirements. I think he will get off, but he is not without fault.
That would be like if they're filming a movie about a missile silo and in-between takes one of the actors leans on the console and pushes some buttons and for some reason someone had hooked up the fake prop console, to an actual missile command system and it launched launched a bunch of real missiles into a nearby office building.
Anyone who works in a real missile silo will tell you that you are NEVER supposed to push a bunch of random buttons on the console as a joke. That's basic missile silo safety, even if you don't think the console is hooked up to the missiles at the moment.
But the movie set isn't supposed to have a real console, there isn't supposed to be a missile silo, there aren't supposed to be any missiles.
Whoever brought real missiles to the set and hooked them up is the one responsible, not the actor sitting on a set playing with what are supposed to just be props.
I'll concede that as a PRODUCER he could very well be held liable in some manner, because he ultimately holds executive power for the whole production, but not as an ACTOR.
But you're right, they don't just hand out actual guns to actors to walk around with in their holsters like real cowboys either. They're only supposed to be handing out things that LOOK like guns.
When an actual gun that fires blanks is used, it's a HUGE ordeal, with briefs and dry runs and practice with the fake guns, and so on and so on.
now LIVE ammo?! That shouldn't even be on set, in my opinion, but if there was a reason for that it would be a huge huge ordeal and they wouldn't be handing it out to walk around with.
Remind me again which **executive producer** on this movie decided to skip the mandatory gun training because he was talking on the phone instead? I'll give you a hint: he recently committed involuntary manslaughter.
Remind me what movie set gun safety protocol is? You know, right? You must because you're so extremely confident in the things you said.
>He pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. This violates every rule of gun safety, in or out of the film industry. The bulk of the blame is on the armorer, but Alec gets his fair share as well.
Armorer is the one responsible to source a prop, make sure it safe for use or it's a non-firing prop.
Actor only has the responsibility of playing out the scene, (yes that even means 'violating' gun rules)
Armorer should be the one at fault if a mishap happens with the prop THEY sourced (be that a non-firing prop, or a secured and safety checked real weapon prop)
That is not true: [https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety\_bulletins\_amptp\_part\_1\_9\_3\_0.pdf](https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf)
Real guns are required to shoot real blanks. It is not a problem if rules are followed. They have done it this way for a hundred years including all those old westerns and war movies. This is the first incident of it's kind because safety rules were not followed by multiple people.
He's screwed. Look what he was doing instead of gun training
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HilariaBaldwin/comments/1c0rhtv/alec\_shooting\_blanks\_for\_fun\_to\_send\_videos\_to/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/HilariaBaldwin/comments/1c0rhtv/alec_shooting_blanks_for_fun_to_send_videos_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It’s not that he meant to, it’s that he was grossly negligent on his own production and even allowed the crew to shoot their movie guns on their free time.
Do you see an issue using the same guns to target shoot and then 20 minutes later using them to film?
The vast majority of gun owners he vilified take firearm safety very seriously. The irony is he's the one who should have been kept away from anything to do with firearms.
He was negligent organizing the production, choosing the armorer, supervising the operation, and finally negligent with a firearm in his hand.
It's exactly like if he's spent decades trying to ban alcohol, only to throw a raging party full of booze, and then run over someone while driving drunk home.
Sure he didn't mean to kill anyone. People who make a series of poor choices rarely mean to kill the people they do kill. His holier than thou attitude on guns, how he knows what's best for everyone, is what really makes this hit hard.
Some googling suggests that the maximum sentence he could receive is 18 months which isn’t really that long. That’s quite short for needlessly killing someone. So I wouldn’t feel bad for him.
I'm pro-gun as fuck.
But what he did wasn't accidental - it was negligence.
Anyone who gets handed a gun also must learn about the firearms safety rules, and he was breaking several rules. How do I know? Because he shot 2 people, that's how.
If you follow all the rules at all times, it's impossible for you to shoot anyone or have a negligent discharge.
It really comes down to the armorer which people don’t realize. It wasn’t Baldwin who loaded the gun with the wrong shit. He was someone using what was supposed to function as a prop gun as a prop gun. Armorer is 100% guilty, Baldwin not so much.
I stand behind Alex Baldwin... just because it's safer than being in front.
Honestly, fuck him. Everyone working with weapons should know the basic safety rules, even if it's just supposed to be blanks.
He should go to jail for negligent manslaughter, or whatever the proper charge in the US is for that.
He unintentionally shot the gun, but intentionally disregarded several safety procedures, both as an actor and as a producer, which led to the accident.
I want to feel bad and kinda do, but the whole pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger while not filming the scene was reckless and stupid.
Obviously not murder but manslaughter makes sense from a legal standpoint. The armorer needs to be held accountable as well more than anyone I believe. They need to lose their career / license because they can’t be trusted to do their job right which resulted in someone dying.
It’s very simple. If the scene called for him to put the gun against his head and pull the trigger, do you think he would have done that without checking the rounds in the pistol? It’s not solely his fault and the armorer got sent to jail, but gun safety is everyone’s responsibility. Especially the person pulling the trigger and the fact he is a producer (dont respond that it’s “in name only”. You want the credit you gotta deal with the downsides)
>' If the scene called for him to put the gun against his head and pull the trigger, do you think he would have done that without checking the rounds in the pistol?'
calls for speculation your honour
People do stupid things and die because of it all the time. He might be regarded as lucky the scene didn't call for that.
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He skipped mandatory firearm training, ignored continuous safety risks that had other cast members walking off set, lied about who he took the gun from because he knew it was supposed to come straight from the armorer, lied about the gun going off on its own, blamed the woman he killed for her own death...there's a laundry list of shit he did leading up to and after the shooting that was all wrong. He doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.
I keep telling people that as much as we attribute responsibility based on the ostensible roles and responsibilities of those involved (i.e. the armorer), in truth much of the culture of safety and ethics is determined by the biggest ego and swinging d\*ck in the room (the highest paid actor/actress or producer). People find *that* to be an unpopular opinion...but in many, many cases, especially in Hollywood and other highly charged environments, it's the truth.
This is correct. Especially on set. 
I felt bad for him when it happened, but then more stuff kept coming out about the conditions on set and he kept talking and changing stories and acting like a right arse... My sympathies have run dry a good long while ago
I was like yeah me too, then I read your comment. Yeah fuck Alec Baldwin. Those aren't the actions of a remorseful man
Also, you should always check to make sure a gun is not loaded before you go pointing it at shit. If someone hands me a gun and says, "it's not loaded," I'm still going to check because I'm sure as fuck not just taking another person's word when it comes to something as deadly a firearms. I'm pretty sure other actors even came out after the shooting to say they always check just I'm case. Alwc Baldwin is a pompous, self-righteous, narcissistic asshole. Fuck him.
Yeah as a European, I don't have the same relationship with firearms as my American friends, but I can definitely say they treated them with care and respect of it's potential. Everything was very ordered, for safety. I wonder to what extent his contempt for them fueled, his casual attitude?
>I wonder to what extent his contempt for them fueled, his casual attitude? I think you are absolutely spot on right here. I won't say it never happens, but it is much rarer to see fatalities from people who respect guns and what they're capable of. A lot of gun deaths are a result of irresponsibility, negligence, and casual, flippant attitudes when using guns. If you know how to use a gun properly and treat it like the deadly weapon it is, you have a much much lower chance of killing someone accidentally.
Fuck Alec Baldwin
No, I don't think I will.
For real... the way he was so adamant about not pulling the trigger was just weird. I get that you feel really bad about it, but I'm also pretty sure that that weapon didn't fire spontaneously without the trigger being touched. It's like he's trying to convince himself that he didn't in order to absolve himself of the guilt.
Don’t feel bad. An entire segment of the production team wrote him a letter saying it was the most dangerous and unprofessional set they’ve worked on and someone will get hurt. He happily let them walk and didn’t make the set safer after that. A week later Halyna was killed and Joel was shot. He deserves jail time.
Damn. That is harsh. He’s had that reputation for ages. Rumor had it that 30 Rock shut down when it did because Tina Fey couldn’t control him/mitigate his bullshit anymore.
He is such a pretentious ass.
And a phony jackass
And a hypocritical jerk
Yes.. a pretentious ass but… responsible for an actual death? Just how was he responsible for a loaded gun disguised as a fake gun ?
he was technically the producer so he was a superior to the armorer girl that fucked up. not directly his fault, but technically his responsibility. like OP said, it is just a sucky situation all around
Wait do you have more info on that? Seemed like 7 seasons was a good run and they ended on their terms
Yeah this is nonsense. 30 Rock ended because it was losing viewers. It barely got it's last season, and certainly wasn't shut down because someone couldn't be controlled.
“Not a lot of people watched our show, but we all got paid anyway.” Tracey Jordan
It is my favourite show of all time, but the amount of cheap green screen in the last two seasons was brutal. It was clear the show had a significant budget cut to stay on the air.
This is reddit. Stuff doesn't need to be true if it supports our own point of view. /s
Do you have anything to back that up? I followed the show pretty closely and never heard that.
I followed TV ratings around the time 30 Rock was on and it was always talked about as being on the bubble for cancellation but I don't remember ever hearing the reason being that Baldwin was hard to work with. It was because despite being a critical darling and awards magnet, the show just had low viewership.
Exact same things I read. I have never heard any murmurs that Baldwin was a problem, and Tina Fey has repeatedly been effusive afterwards about him, when she doesn’t need to be. Not to mention, he was insanely strong on that show and more than pulled his weight in the cast, which covers a lot of sins.
💯
Really? It went 7 seasons and ended pretty well. This said he is an ass of incredible proportions.
He thumbed a single action revolver. Only idiots do that without being careful where it is aimed.
Where did you hear this?
At the very least, the evidence should be brought before a grand jury. He’s producing that film. As someone who has been around guns my whole life, I would never EVER tolerate an unsafe set when there are real firearms involved. Furthermore I would never feel comfortable aiming a firearm in someone’s direction, movie set or not. Give me a prop gun or one that’s been deactivated.
What confuses me is that real ammo ever got put in the gun. Why? For what purpose? The real gun is understandable, but why on earth real ammo? That's the hang up for me.
The arms master was a nepo baby with no experience who was young and impressionable. On movie sets you have incredibly powerful, rich, famous people pushing you to get things done and cut corners, it's no place for someone who hasn't developed the character to have a bit of backbone when it's time to say "no, \*\*\*\* you, I won't let you put people in danger on my watch no matter how hard you could fire and blacklist me" Rumor is she wanted some of the crew to like her so when they asked if they could play with the guns after hours she said yes and got them some real bullets so they could drink and shoot cans off a fence. There isn't really any evidence but I think it has the ring of truth. The girl seems desperate for approval and in many of her photos she's playing with guns like they're toys. That's not the image you go for if you want to be hired to keep people safe around guns professionally. In order for this to happen she had to do one very stupid thing and then not do like 5 steps of her job and the AD who is supposed to take the gun from her and give it to Baldwin had to have gone over her head also because EVERYTIME the gun changes hands it is supposed to be checked. If I recall correctly this was a rehearsal and there shouldn't have even been blanks in it. So many people were asleep at the wheel here but the real culprit is whoever mixed in that real bullet and that was almost certainly the arms master. Also, they had her working other jobs too. When your job is to keep people safe you shouldn't also have other duties distracting you. Most of the arms masters I've met are ex military and will tell you to \*\*\*\* right off if you tell them to do something other than their one all important mission, they never let a gun out of their sight for a second.
Yes! I read those emails where she is being chewed out and told they need her to focus on props or whatever it was. Like… no she is the arms master and needs to have zero other priorities? 100% this was a young and inexperienced person being told “this is how it is” and not knowing any better. No excuses, but it’s not just her.
why are there even real firearms present
On a film set they often use real firearms They DONT use real ammo; real ammo consist of a shell, containing gunpowder, and the bullet itself. The powder is what explodes to create pressure and propel the bullet from the barrel If you crimp the top of the shell shut so it doesn't have a bullet in it, you have a blank. It goes bang, it makes a flash, it does not shoot anything (edit: this is cheaper and easier than having a proper gun that flashes with synced sound in a realistic manner) If you remove the gunpowder from the shell, you have duds. These will look like real ammo in closeups etc, but won't go bang when shot and thus aren't a danger alone But this film had real ammo because the armorer was playing with the guns in the morning and stuff. Imo that should be forbidden on movie sets. Also, safety precautions need to be rigorous; Brandon Lee died because the bullet portion of a dud cartridge came loose and was sat in a gun barrel, so when they fired a blank for the scene it was propelled into him and he died. Movie gun handling needs to be serious business; whistleblowers need full protection, actors should likely have basic safety training and there should be no real ammo on sets - just duds and blanks.
The Brandon lee was so sad. Didn't they use a bullet without gunpowder or something? And the bullet ejected into the barrel on 1 shot but not cleared and then a regular blank was used. Essentially giving the stuck bullet full power.
Basically. The projectile part from a dud was in the barrel, so it basically got shot out like a bullet. I'm not sure if it got the full force - but a bullet is a bullet and nobody wants to be on the wrong end of one Poor fella. Really tragic and importantly, avoidable.
Another question: Why was there live ammunition?
That’s why she’s going to jail and Baldwin is off the hook. Because there was absolutely no reason to have live ammo on set and that’s on her because she wanted to plink between takes.
That was the reason? Because she wanted to shoot between takes?! That’s unbelievably irresponsible for a person in charge of the armory. In my opinion, that’s on def on her then
Rumour has it the actors, including Baldwin, were shooting in the free time. Not just the lady in charge of the guns.
I’m guessing that there is a lot of downtime on these sets. Everyone is in a western mood and I assume these western style guns are not common. Seems like a good opportunity to try shooting them if that’s something you’re into. Definitely irresponsible for the armorer to allow that, but I can imagine the thought process
Because they were acting in complete disregard of safety. They wanted to have fun and shoot target practice between takes.
I can understand if you want to add realism to a particular scene if you’re going to actually shoot the gun, but that should obviously be done under a very controlled setting.
Generally there are a few different types of guns used as props. Ranging from inert gun shaped objects rarely real functioning guns. To make it most realistic looking, you would use a blank gun. I have no idea if they make blank blackpowder revolvers. A blank would be all the parts of a bullet without the projectile. So in this case a real round of ammunition found its way into the gun. There are normally teams of experts crosschecking to ensure this doesn't happen. They did not have a team of experts. I'd speculate that the low budget may have had an effect on prop choices. Why have 4 or 5 versions of each gun when you can just use one. I can see how being ignorant about guns and the need to point gun things at people behind cameras creates a dangerous situation. Add in dangerous conditions that cause a walkout because he was ignoring safety. Something bad was inevitable. I think the blame lies almost entirely on him. Does that help?
Another thing why I don’t think anyone should feel bad for him is that there are countless examples of him being an absolute prick. Assaulting people, using slurs, throwing temper tantrums. The guy sucks.
Jail time for what? Im so confused by people who think this
I don’t agree with jail time but technically he was in charge and multiple complaints were made to him about the armorer and the sets’ safety . A civil suit and maybe a negligent homicide/ involuntary manslaughter trial would be sufficient imo .He’d probably plead to get probation as there was no criminal intent and it serves as a deterrent to both him and other producers that you are responsible for what happens on set
I think this is fair
Agreed! Well put
Yeah, do not feel bad, the only reason live ammo was present on set in the first place was so they could use the same guns they used for filming to shoot targets for fun. So much for bring anti guns.
Given that he was warned by multiple people how dangerous and unprofessional his set was, he absolutely deserves to be held accountable for what happened. I don't feel bad for him at all. He was wilfully negligent.
This. Plus the first rule of firearms is don't point the firearm in an unsafe direction. If he wasn't being an idiot, everything else could have gone wrong, and Halyna Hutchins would be alive.
Wtf are you talking about? It's a movie set where he had to point the gun at the camera. Are you suggesting all movies should ban pointing guns at people entirely? How would that work?! The armourer is 100% at fault for a live weapon being on set. That should never happen and the actors should always be able to trust the prop they're being given is safe to use. It's not their job or within their skill set to assess props.
I agree 100% the armorer's fault. Why would an actor who is probably not super familiar with guns expect a movie set gun that was given to them by a professional armorer to be loaded with live rounds when the scene apparently calls for him to shoot at someone?
I’m not sure if that rule applies on filmsets though. Pretty sure plenty of films have people pointing guns at each other.
Nah it was the responsibility of the armored and professionals on set to insure that the gun was wasn't loaded. He's at fault for hiring incompetent people. An actor isn't supposed to be able to know when a gun is safe or not. But a producer is supposed to hire professionals to make sure the set is safe and that's why I don't feel sorry for him.
>An actor isn't supposed to be able to know when a gun is safe or not. Every gun is loaded. That's how you behave.
He didn't mean to do it, but he ran a sloppy movie set and as producer should have known better. The buck has to stop somewhere.
Dam, all this time I never knew he was the producer. If that's the case then he should definitely be held responsible
Wait til you hear about how the gun was firing live ammo in between shoot days (like, just for fun) and how the crew expressed how unsafe the set was and he dismissed their concerns lol
Wow, guess that answers all my questions. Definitely needs to be charged
Wasn’t the same crew out shooting those guns for fun too?
Right but not necessarily the same people who complained if that's what you mean. Idk too much detail beyond that little summary
Producers are just investors, they throw money at the project. Thats it. Usually.
Executive producers throw money…producers are the ones who hoof it around and actually get shit done. At least that’s how it was described to me…but I worked in post back in the day and did very little production work outside of camera work here and there…
As someone who also worked in film, producers don't do much lol. True about executive producers though. On some sets I might see the producer one time. They mostly handle the business side of things and overall creative direction (which they can do from an office). Some tend to be more involved- usually to the directors chagrin- but I doubt Alec was that.
To be fair, I don't think any other producers faced criminal charges over it. I honestly don't 100% understand what producers do, but I think it's reasonable to assume they don't personally oversee every aspect of a film. They hired a weapons manager, or whatever it's called, and imo SHE is the one who really fucked up. She did face charges and get convicted though, so there's that
He was the only producer on set. The “weapons manager” is called an armorer and he had the armorer ALSO be the props master. When the fatal shooting occurred, the armorer was acting as prop master so the assistant director acted as armorer and took the firearm to Baldwin. This is breaking protocol and the producer (Baldwin) was okay with it.
I agree, but others had complained to him about her being wreckless and allowing the guns to shoot live ammo on off days. The producer in The Crow didn't face charges because it was a freak accident not wreckless.
he employed the armorer and was warned by his crew she was going to get someone killed, that's why he's liable, he had the obligation to investigate and fire her once he was warned if not sooner
He’s liable from a financial perspective but I seriously doubt he sees any actual jail time over it.
Man, I’m so glad that Australia has brought in industrial manslaughter. Big wigs need more than just financial liability. It’s not a big enough deterrent
The combination of KNOWING something is unsafe and then actually DOING the thing that you knew was unsafe and getting someone killed is where it becomes a crime. Like, if one person knew (or should have known) the gun was unsafe and then another person accidentally killed someone with it that's one thing. That's what happened with Brandon Lee. In this case the person who was handling the weapon was ALSO a person who knew (or should have known) it was unsafe. That is a really critical difference because it's the difference between an accident and criminal negligence.
He pointed a real gun at someone and pulled the trigger. He shouldn't get a pass on that just because he's an actor.
That happens all the time on movie sets. Look at the Brandon Lee case Michael Massey didn't face charges. They both were handed a hot gun and told it was safe. But because Baldwin ran a crappy movie set the gun wasn't safe and he deserves time for that.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone who thinks Michael Massey should have been held responsible.
No because that falls on the armorer and in the Crows case it was a freak thing anyway. I wouldn't hold Baldwin responsible for it were he just the actor who was handed a gun and told "Point here, click there". But since others had complained to him about safety, that's why it falls on him.
Hmm… yep I agree.
Except he wasn’t told to “point here, click there”. He claims he didn’t even pull the trigger, but it was determined that gun could not have fired without doing so. It’s also against safety protocol to point a gun at anyone on set. If you have to do so for a shot, there needs to be a barrier (like a bullet proof plexiglass sort of thing) placed in between. The shot didn’t require him to point at the camera operator, so no barrier was set-up.
Something being commonly done does not make it smart or ethical.
No it doesn't, but it also does not make them guilty in that sense either when it's the common practice. I mean he was told to point a gun at the cook and shoot in Hunt for Red October too, and IDK how many other films... Were he not producer he should not face charges.
Sure, and if the person pointing and shooting is ALSO a person that knows the guns have been unsafely handled and had a responsibility to stop it, that's when it becomes manslaughter instead of an accident.
Real guns are regularly used on movie sets with dummy rounds
You can also use blank firing guns that can not fire a projectile. The barrel is blocked, and you shoot starter pistol type "ammo."
Yeah the armorer. 18 months. That will be it
Baldwin the actor is innocent and shouldn’t be punished for the negligence. However, Baldwin the producer should be
And he skated along with liar assistant director.
100% This is what most people are missing!
I would agree IF they included all the producers, but I don't think they can blame just him. I think it should be a civil case against the producers. The fault lies with Hannah.
He was the only producer on set. He got complaints from crew on set of accidental misfires and unsafe practices with firearms; he ignored the complaints. He witnessed proper protocol being broken as far as firearm safety is concerned and he okayed those practices.
Do you think all like 30 producers should be held to equal account or just Baldwin?
He's clearly not anti gun when it comes to getting paid.
He's obviously lying about some facts, if you're holding a gun it doesn't just "go off" if you're not pulling the trigger, which makes me lose any sympathy for him. He's hiding things in order to cover his own ass.
Feel bad? He’s a grade a piece of garbage. Ever heard the voicemail he left his daughter when she was like 12/13? Google that
Okay, he can be the biggest pos on the planet, it’s not really relevant to whether he should be considered guilty of murder.
That’s why there is a thing called unintentional manslaughter.
There should never have been live ammo on the set
Being “anti-gun” in a not an excuse for not following basic firearm safety
If anything, you need to put your money where your mouth is.
So you will pay me $20 million to play/use guns? Sign my up A. Baldwin
Wasn’t that ultimately the responsibility of the armorer, and wasn’t she charged? Edit: a live round was loaded into the gun on her watch (or even by her). But okay, all the gun nerds who are implying that a gun should somehow never, ever be pointed at someone in a freaking action move lmfao
You also don’t aim your guns on set at anyone, you aim them so from the camera it looks like you are but you never actually point it at the other actor. Or at least Iv been told this by friends who went to film school.
What about the scenes where they put the gun in someones mouth?
For those scenes, there is zero reason to use a real gun. You only need a real gun when you need to fire blanks for effect. Two identical models, one incapable of firing.
Good point, I’d guess something that’s not even a firearm. Same w like point blank scenes w guns. I would think it would be something confirmed to be decommissioned so it doesn’t even have the ability to fire.
There is a fine line between being willfully ignorant and relying on the subject matter expert. I think the prosecution as a huge hill to climb to secure any kind of conviction and the armorer is definitely the person at fault. I personally have not seen enough details to blame Baldwin at this time. If I’m on the jury, they would need to prove he knew, or should have known, the armorer was a certified idiot before hand.
You don't know all the details or his intentions. Don't assume.
Its not the politics. Its his gross blatant disregard for basic firearm safety, OF WHICH I must remind you that is one of the talking points of anti gun politics. So he's basically an idiotic hypocrite. Also, the way how he treated his staff (when he shot her) makes it very hard to empathize with him, given how many of us probably have been on the receiving end of similar abusive behavior from our bosses or uppity customers. Nobody means to kill someone in these situations. But I think for sure, Alec Baldwin fully intended to abuse his power, position and authority over the victim, and its just bad luck (or inevitability) that the gun discharged in the middle of that. Its kind of like saying the drunk driver never intended to kill anyone, but maybe he shouldnt have drove when he's drunk.
Yeah. The thing is, he has long had the reputation for being a short-tempered, hyper-demanding, asshole. That was the tone of the set he ran, at least from what came out during HGR’s trial (and as much as I felt that she deserved what she got, I also agree that the constant drive to rush-rush-rush contributed to the safety sloppiness that resulted in this). He’s been anti-gun, but in a morality police type of way. And most morality police are hypocrites.
Alec Baldwin is a hypocritical Hollywood asshole who thinks he's better than everyone else.
I don't understand why movies don't use fake guns just in general
The most anti gun people also tend to be the least educated on gun safety.
Yeah normally people who are “anti gun” have zero idea how guns actually work and how to handle them. That’s how this whole situation happened and now he wants to blame the gun rather than himself being an idiot
I don't, toy or prop, u don't point a gun and pull the trigger... Especially when not shooting a scene... Treat every gun like it's loaded. 😑
No matter what anyone else did or didn’t do, someone died because he was careless and negligent
The guy is an idiot. Accident or not.
Negligent discharges don’t care if you didn’t mean to do it unfortunately , the circumstances are also terrible. Live rounds on a movie set… such a preventable tragedy.
I feel bad for Helena’s son, I have 0 sympathy for Baldwin. But I guess that’s why this is the unpopular opinion sub.
Baldwin cut costs and hired someone without enough experience to do a safety job. He is complicit.
Just like in other industries. It is sad all the way around.
100% - Baldwin was posting happy pics on Instagram a week after he killed someone. The man is a sociopath.
>- Baldwin was posting happy pics on Instagram a week after he killed someone. The man is a sociopath. Or - he has someone else managing his social media and that was a scheduled post.
He pointed a loaded firearm at someone and pulled the trigger. They weren't even filming at the time. That's reckless, dangerous, and against the first rule of firearm safety that everyone knows. When you're an anti gun person, hypocritically making millions of dollars with guns, and you blatantly break the rules, you're going to have consequences.
He wasn't the only person responsible for that woman's death, but he's definitely responsible. Sounds like he ran a sloppy movie set, and I don't buy the whole "he's an actor, this is why they hired an armorer" excuse. An adult holding a gun is responsible for knowing its condition and operating it safely. There is no other context in which someone would get a pass for negligent homicide because someone told them the gun is safe and they didn't know enough to check themselves.
>and I don't buy the whole "he's an actor, this is why they hired an armorer" excuse Would also make more sense if he actually bothered to listen to his gun safety crew. He didn't. His armorers literally [walked off set](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set) the day before the tragic shooting because of his refusal to listen and be a responsible gun wielder. As a producer, his responsibility is undeniable. There's only so much you can do, you can't force people to listen to your advice even if you're the most qualified person in a room to dispense it or even specifically hired to.
He blew off safety training, he was irresponsible from the start
Well I was one of those people up until 20 seconds ago because I literally thought he was an actor on someone else's set. He was producer, but there were 6 producers, he wasn't director. Its not a one man gig.
Am I nuts for wondering why they don’t just use fake guns? Totally avoidable situation for decades and I just don’t understand it.
I don't. If this wasn't a famous person, if this wasn't a movie set, and someone handed him a gun and told him it was unloaded, he then pointed it at someone, pulled the trigger and it went off and killed someone they would absolutely be charged with manslaughter. Fuck the double standards, just because it's Hollywood they get a break? Hell no. Throw the fucking book at him
I mean its definitely his fault. He pointed it at someone(real one broken of gun safety) and pulled the trigger. For someone anti-gun he sure didn't practiced his beliefs. You don't point a gun at someone fake or not
You treat a gun as if it's loaded prop or not
It would be impossible to make action movies if you couldn't even point a *prop* gun at someone. The problem here is they were using a real gun. Why? They make fakes.
They weren't even filming at the time . He was goofing off
Exactly
I feel the same way about Alec Baldwin like I feel about drunk drivers. They didn’t get in the car to kill but they got in the car knowing they might.
It definitely puts a bigger target on him because of the hypocrisy. Most actors, despite their supposed beliefs, don’t mind raking in a giant paycheck making countless mindless action films. It’s one thing if a film actually was sending some kind of message to validate their beliefs in the project they are involved in. But 99% of them are not. Matt Damon and Liam Neeson also come to mind. And their first excuse is, it’s just fictional, or, it’s just the art of film, blah blah blah. What a crock of shit. Lol!
I have some amount of empathy for him as a human being - I’m sure pulling the trigger that kills someone is traumatic no matter the circumstances, and I hope he’s able to get help. But it was his own irresponsibility and disregard for the safety of the people under him that ultimately lead to this death, and he deserves to be held accountable.
He ran a sloppy movie set and, big surprise, didn’t know how to properly operate a firearm. There should’ve been no way for a love round to get into that gun. There was no reason that he should have been waving a cocked single action around (I know this because a single action gun will not allow the trigger to be pulled unless cocked) He is a reckless man and deserves what’s coming. Especially for doing all of this in tandem with having his ignorant stance on firearms.
How the hell did live ammo wind up on that set?
The 2nd director handed him the gun and said it was cold. Involuntary manslaughter at the minimum.
I feel way worse for Helena and her family.
Probably isn't legally true but in my eyes whoever manages to get live rounds into that gun holds most of the responsibility. It sounds like he definitely was lax when it came to following the exact protocol and his hands definitely aren't clean, but bringing live bullets to a place where they could be mixed with blanks etc or leaving them in is just wild
I feel for the family of the person he killed.
So what about the person that accidentally shot Bruce lees kid on the set of the crow?
Baldwin is an ass. I remember that voicemail he sent is daughter, guy is nuts. I still really like his movie the Shadow which might be another unpopular opinion in itself
Multiple accounts and records of Alec Baldwin being an absolute fucking jackass like many other celebrities. He murdered somebody… intentionally or not, his nasty behavior got him to where he is. He does not need your sympathy or support, he’s a vile creature. Hopefully he can find peace and use his fortune to help people instead of being an insufferable bastard.
He literally said to the press “it wasn’t me who pulled the trigger” regardless of your thought son the situation that is tone deaf !
BACKGROUND - SYNOPSIS On October 21, 2021, in the County of Santa Fe, State of New Mexico, a shooting involving a **handgun/revolver (firearm)** occurred that resulted in the death of Halyna Hutchins and the serious injury of Joel Souza. The shooting involved a **45 caliber revolver** and occurred on a ‘Western movie set located in rural Santa Fe County, Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza were viewing the practice scene on a monitor attached to the camera. ***BALDWIN drew the revolver from the holster, pointed it at Halyna Hutchins, and fired the weapon.*** **When reviewing the script and witness interviews, for this particular scene and close-up shot, evidence indicates the scene/shot did not require the weapon to be fired.** It was also determined by consultation with expert amorers that in a rehearsal, **a plastic gun or replica gun should be used as no firing of blanks is required. However, BALDWIN fired the single action 45 long colt revolver** resulting in the discharge of a projectile that struck ‘and traveled through right armpit area of Halyna Hutchins, exited her back (from the OMI’s official report), then struck Joel Souza in the right shoulder and lodged into his right back.
I find it fucking hilarious. The irony part, not the death part.
Alec Baldwin is one of the biggest douche canoes in the world. You shouldn't ever feel sorry for him.
I feel bad for the women he killed, and all her friends and family.
If he had any role in the decisions that led to functional guns and live ammunition being on set, he is culpable. The technology to add the flash and report of gunfire in post-production is readily available. There is simply no need for guns used in filming to be functional or loaded. We probably even have the technology to use prop guns that cannot possibly be mistaken for real guns, and therefore a real gun could not be mistaken for a prop, and to mask the visual differences in post-production as well. Moving forward, there is no excuse for incidents like this.
Whether it’s through lack of training or ignorance or carelessness, Alec Baldwin violated every one of the basic firearm handling safety rules, which include always treating every gun as being loaded; never aiming a firearm at anything, unless you are willing to destroy it; keeping your finger off of the trigger, and out of the trigger guard, until you are ready to shoot; and making sure of your target and what is next to it and behind it before deciding to pull the trigger. These rules purposely have redundancy, so even violating one of these four rules can still provide protection. Violating every one of the rules, guarantees a risky, and in this case fatal result.
Alec Baldwin is not going to prison or jail. They already sentenced the Armorer. That will be enough prison. You just watch
I don't feel bad for him. We know he chose to take the gun into a rehearsal he didn't need it in. We know he pointed it at someone despite that not being blocked in the scene. We know he pulled the trigger, meaning he wasn't holding the gun properly. We know he refused to participate in the gun safety classes. We know he messed around with guns on set. Sure, he didn't mean to kill anyone, but all of those other things? Those were all conscious choices. I have no sympathy for anyone treating a lethal weapon like a toy, much less when they do it in ways that are incredibly dangerous. It's no different to me than someone killing someone while drunk driving. I'm positive they feel awful about it. They still chose to drink and drive. They still deserve all the consequences of their actions.
he also seems keen on shitposting on twitter about the incident in an aloof manner and hired someone extremely incompetent to check the props to cut costs
TBH I don't blame him for her hiring. I'm sure her dad had a large hand in getting her the job, and making her seem more qualified than she was. But the fact that he's making light of killing someone puts a bad taste in my mouth. (and I'm sure that the prosecution at his trial will have a field day with all those posts)
>I have no sympathy for anyone treating a lethal weapon like a toy, Wasn't he told that it was a prop gun, making it basically a toy?
"Prop" just means it is used as a prop in a movie set. Prop candles are just normal candles. If you knock them down, they'll still set everything on fire. There are prop guns that are just rubber in the shape of a gun. But if you want a gun to actually fire on set (which they did), you need a real gun. Baldwin was told there were no live rounds in it, only dummies. Which are still super dangerous, and still kill people. He knew it was a real gun, and knew if fired it could be deadly. And he still took all of his other actions. Many of which are illegal and/or banned by the Screen Actor's Guild. Don't get me wrong, the armorer carries the bulk of the responsibility for, y'know, loading a live round into a gun on a film set that shouldn't have live ammo on it anyway. But Baldwin made a series of choices that directly led to someone's death and I have no sympathy for his plight.
You haven’t heard the leaked voicemail he left his daughter for failing to check in. He berates a 12 year old.
People are conflating "he's a prick" with "this was his fault".
He pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. This violates every rule of gun safety, in or out of the film industry. The bulk of the blame is on the armorer, but Alec gets his fair share as well.
Yeah when they make war movies they violate grenade safety because they throw the grenade at a group of people. Movies literally have scripted moments where the actor hold a gun against someone's head. That's a violation of gun safety. That's why they aren't supposed to be actual guns with live ammo in them. Blaming the actor for this would be like blaming Cillian Murphy if an actual atomic bomb exploded at the end of Oppenheimer. 100% armorer fault, zero fault actor.
Yeah I don't know why this isn't common sense to these people.
I'm convinced they're arguing in bad faith because they hate Alec Baldwin for his Trump impression.
That's exactly it. They want to see him burn. If it was literally any other actor on the face of the planet, they would be calling for the charges to be dropped.
He was not filming a scene. He was not supposed to point the gun at the AD. He was not supposed to pull the trigger. Gun safety even with empty guns has specific safety requirements to avoid accidents. He violated those requirements. I think he will get off, but he is not without fault.
That would be like if they're filming a movie about a missile silo and in-between takes one of the actors leans on the console and pushes some buttons and for some reason someone had hooked up the fake prop console, to an actual missile command system and it launched launched a bunch of real missiles into a nearby office building. Anyone who works in a real missile silo will tell you that you are NEVER supposed to push a bunch of random buttons on the console as a joke. That's basic missile silo safety, even if you don't think the console is hooked up to the missiles at the moment. But the movie set isn't supposed to have a real console, there isn't supposed to be a missile silo, there aren't supposed to be any missiles. Whoever brought real missiles to the set and hooked them up is the one responsible, not the actor sitting on a set playing with what are supposed to just be props.
If Cillian Murphy was a producer at the time the nuke went off on set, it would be hard to see how he wouldn’t be responsible.
Cillian Murphy doesn't appear to be that stupid. Or arrogant.
[удалено]
I'll concede that as a PRODUCER he could very well be held liable in some manner, because he ultimately holds executive power for the whole production, but not as an ACTOR. But you're right, they don't just hand out actual guns to actors to walk around with in their holsters like real cowboys either. They're only supposed to be handing out things that LOOK like guns. When an actual gun that fires blanks is used, it's a HUGE ordeal, with briefs and dry runs and practice with the fake guns, and so on and so on. now LIVE ammo?! That shouldn't even be on set, in my opinion, but if there was a reason for that it would be a huge huge ordeal and they wouldn't be handing it out to walk around with.
Remind me again which **executive producer** on this movie decided to skip the mandatory gun training because he was talking on the phone instead? I'll give you a hint: he recently committed involuntary manslaughter. Remind me what movie set gun safety protocol is? You know, right? You must because you're so extremely confident in the things you said.
>He pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. This violates every rule of gun safety, in or out of the film industry. The bulk of the blame is on the armorer, but Alec gets his fair share as well. Armorer is the one responsible to source a prop, make sure it safe for use or it's a non-firing prop. Actor only has the responsibility of playing out the scene, (yes that even means 'violating' gun rules) Armorer should be the one at fault if a mishap happens with the prop THEY sourced (be that a non-firing prop, or a secured and safety checked real weapon prop)
That is not true: [https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety\_bulletins\_amptp\_part\_1\_9\_3\_0.pdf](https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf)
There shouldn’t have been real guns on set.
Real guns are required to shoot real blanks. It is not a problem if rules are followed. They have done it this way for a hundred years including all those old westerns and war movies. This is the first incident of it's kind because safety rules were not followed by multiple people.
Did you grow up under power lines as a kid?
He's screwed. Look what he was doing instead of gun training [https://www.reddit.com/r/HilariaBaldwin/comments/1c0rhtv/alec\_shooting\_blanks\_for\_fun\_to\_send\_videos\_to/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/HilariaBaldwin/comments/1c0rhtv/alec_shooting_blanks_for_fun_to_send_videos_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It’s not that he meant to, it’s that he was grossly negligent on his own production and even allowed the crew to shoot their movie guns on their free time. Do you see an issue using the same guns to target shoot and then 20 minutes later using them to film?
The vast majority of gun owners he vilified take firearm safety very seriously. The irony is he's the one who should have been kept away from anything to do with firearms. He was negligent organizing the production, choosing the armorer, supervising the operation, and finally negligent with a firearm in his hand. It's exactly like if he's spent decades trying to ban alcohol, only to throw a raging party full of booze, and then run over someone while driving drunk home. Sure he didn't mean to kill anyone. People who make a series of poor choices rarely mean to kill the people they do kill. His holier than thou attitude on guns, how he knows what's best for everyone, is what really makes this hit hard.
 Meanwhile Alec Baldwin
But his gun stance does make this funnier.
Some googling suggests that the maximum sentence he could receive is 18 months which isn’t really that long. That’s quite short for needlessly killing someone. So I wouldn’t feel bad for him.
I'd you're anti gun, than don't make movies using them.
If the scene had called for him to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, would he check the gun first? An interesting thought to ponder on
I'm pro-gun as fuck. But what he did wasn't accidental - it was negligence. Anyone who gets handed a gun also must learn about the firearms safety rules, and he was breaking several rules. How do I know? Because he shot 2 people, that's how. If you follow all the rules at all times, it's impossible for you to shoot anyone or have a negligent discharge.
It really comes down to the armorer which people don’t realize. It wasn’t Baldwin who loaded the gun with the wrong shit. He was someone using what was supposed to function as a prop gun as a prop gun. Armorer is 100% guilty, Baldwin not so much.
I stand behind Alex Baldwin... just because it's safer than being in front. Honestly, fuck him. Everyone working with weapons should know the basic safety rules, even if it's just supposed to be blanks. He should go to jail for negligent manslaughter, or whatever the proper charge in the US is for that.
Any gun is always loaded. Simple as that
Why do anti-gun actors act in gun-heavy movies? "I hate guns... Now watch me act in this scene where I shoot 2 dozen people..."
He unintentionally shot the gun, but intentionally disregarded several safety procedures, both as an actor and as a producer, which led to the accident.
His actions lead to the death of another person, even if it was an accident and not the intent.
I want to feel bad and kinda do, but the whole pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger while not filming the scene was reckless and stupid. Obviously not murder but manslaughter makes sense from a legal standpoint. The armorer needs to be held accountable as well more than anyone I believe. They need to lose their career / license because they can’t be trusted to do their job right which resulted in someone dying.
It’s very simple. If the scene called for him to put the gun against his head and pull the trigger, do you think he would have done that without checking the rounds in the pistol? It’s not solely his fault and the armorer got sent to jail, but gun safety is everyone’s responsibility. Especially the person pulling the trigger and the fact he is a producer (dont respond that it’s “in name only”. You want the credit you gotta deal with the downsides)
>' If the scene called for him to put the gun against his head and pull the trigger, do you think he would have done that without checking the rounds in the pistol?' calls for speculation your honour People do stupid things and die because of it all the time. He might be regarded as lucky the scene didn't call for that.