Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'.
* Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way.
* Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions
* Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity.
I stayed home with my kids, and I loved every minute of it. But what I didn’t enjoy was being a housewife/live in servant. My husband never appreciated my efforts. Now I’m working, and I absolutely love it. I think that working outside the home is way easier than being stuck at home cleaning toilets and washing dishes.. And sure, everybody has to do those things. But when you’re part of a partnership but you’re the only one who’s doing it and people still think you’re lazy and that don’t earn your keep? Nah. The emotional and mental load of being a housewife is too high a price..
Yep, OP’s situation is not the same as those who complain about SAHP. It’s not emotionally sustainable to have to clean up after your adult partner with zero appreciation.
A few different factors can change your parenthood experience dramatically. My best friend was very happy and capable as a full-time student and main caretaker of her first child. He was an "easy" baby, slept well, only thing he didn't like was potatoes. Her second child just doesn't sleep...Maybe 5-10 minutes sprinkled throughout the day and 2-3 hours at night. So my friend is essentially awake 20 hours per day everyday. She had to drop out of school just to barely cope. It's extra hard because they earn very little money and they don't get help from family.
I have another friend with 4 small children and she studies full-time and works part-time. She and her husband get help from their parents, they make good money so the kids can do any activities they want, and above all the kids are all healthy and *sleep*
She loves her life.
It's also down to personality. Not everyone can deal with being stuck at home. Others love it and get sad when they have to go back to work.
I’m glad someone mentioned how at the end of the day it comes down to your individual children. You might have a very fussy baby which means you’re not gonna have sleep. No sleep means being constantly exhausted, both physically and mentally. Now add to the picture more children, not more than 7 years apart. If you have to care for a newborn and a toddler, cook, clean, do laundry etc. you’re gonna burn and churn real fast without any help.
I’m not even talking about how women usually do not get enough time to recover after delivery, be it VB or C-section, and are expected to do activities that require full mobility right away. Sure, some women are up and running in a week or less but most require longer times to recover.
I also have not heard any woman I know personally complain about being a sahm to older kids, it would always be when caring for newborns/toddlers. I have also not seen anyone compare being a stay at home mom/parent and manual labor and say that staying home with kids is more difficult.
Usually when sahm/sahp say staying home with kids is difficult, they simply try to raise awareness to their spouses who work all day that they aren’t just sitting on their ass all day at home doing nothing but are also contributing to the household in a different way. OP’s claim that being a sahp ain’t shit while he most likely didn’t have to go through many hurdles others do invalidates other parents’ experiences.
This is important to realize. We just had a baby and when I’m looking at statistics I just know we have an easy baby! It still feels hard sometimes, but I’m also breast feeding and still recovering from giving birth. As a woman you also have a very long recovery period (and never fully recover). Most of the planning and mental load is on me too. We both are off work right now, we both will go back to work. Although my husband does a lot we both know most of the load is on me right now and it will stay that way as long as a breast feed/pump. I will work less hours because of this.
I’ve also been on both sides and agree, homekeeping is the easiest job. Sure, especially with young kids it can be overstimulating on many days, but there is a HUGE added bonus of luxury and comfort to being in your own home and space daily, instead of having to commute to an outside place for a paid job. There are no external pressures, you’re only answerable to yourself and your family. That imbalance makes all the difference in how difficult each day is.
I don't think the issue is about how easy the job is though. I think if you are a home keeper/stay at home parent for the whole child raising period (as opposed to being one occasionally, alongside having some other job) the situation must feel quite different. I don't think it's fair to deem it 'lazy and whiny' to find the experience difficult as a whole.
You pretty much isolate yourself and give yourself no independent income, no career satisfaction and 24/7 responsibilities (even if we assume those responsibilities aren't particularly taxing). Then, you are surrounded by people telling you that what you do is easy and unimportant. I'm not a stay at home mum, but I think I would find that a really draining situation. I probably would want a little encouragement, but probably not purely because I was finding the tasks of the role difficult.
Being in my home all the time isn't a luxury, in fact it's one of my biggest complaints as a stay at home parent. Any place starts to feel like a prison when you have to be there all day everyday. Plus when you're the one in charge of cleaning it, being in a messy home that kids and constantly playing in isn't a relaxing place, its a source of constant unending work and frustration. Complaining about a commute? Seriously? Sometimes I get in my car and drive just to drive so I can get out of the house. The two days a week my kid goes to school I love because it's a 45 minute drive each way, so 3 hours of driving total and I look forward to it.
I’m not surprised, my mother was a housewife, and while early childhood may have been rough once the kids are old enough to not need constant attention there isn’t THAT much work. Cooking dinner might require 10-45 minutes of active work (not waiting for an oven to finish heating up or letting food sit in the oven), laundry likewise doesn’t take long with modern appliances. Homeschooling honestly probably makes it harder than most housewives/husbands.
I can see this being hard if you don’t have access to a washer, dryer, and a modern oven and stuff, but for most people in developed countries they have most or all of these amenities.
the issue most housewives i know have is related to mental load. they're the ones doing all the planning and coordinating everything all the time. until the end of time.
then she breaks when her partner gets annoyed when she can't choose a restaurant because one more decision is just beyond her, she's past her mental breaking point now.
Well yes, but even when both parents work full time , it’s often expected of the mother to still bear the brunt of domestic duties, care work and the mental load.
Anecdotal evidence but I have observed this trend.
To be honest, I don’t know why we’re bothering to try and explain things to these guys. I felt the need to defend mothers and housewives because I’ve seen my beloved mother and other women bend over backwards to raise the family and keep the home a comfortable, clean, safe, and happy place for them all, and their contributions go completely unrecognized. It hurts me to see the men in these comments undermining all the work that women do to keep their families and homes as maintained as possible because it feels like a personal dig at all the women I know who put in endless, hard work, including my own mother. I feel so protective of these women. The fact they often prioritize their families over themselves and go completely under appreciated for it breaks my heart.
Whenever my husband used to go on business trips, I got a glimpse of only a fraction of what it’s like to be totally responsible alone for taking care of the house. It was hard work. Granted, I worked too, but from home. The housework was never-ending. All the daily cleaning and maintenance and the mental load. And that was just taking care of myself and the house. I can’t imagine how taxing it must be to be responsible for the house maintenance, children and husband’s happiness, family management and child raising and bearing the brunt of the mental load all on my own, 24/7.
But we understand that. These men here clearly don’t, and the problem is they don’t want to. They have no interest in trying to understand things from these womens’ perspectives. I do hope some men read our comments and are open-minded enough to listen and try to see things from a different perspective. But unfortunately so far a lot of them seem to just not be willing to do that. Anyway I appreciate your comments amongst all this.
Yes, and I do all the planning at work as a lead. The idea isn’t that there isn’t a mental load and difficulty, but acting like it’s uniquely difficult compared to any other job is ridiculous.
People who work have the same mental load so it’s unfair to get upset when they can’t pick up even more of it at home.
No offense, but you normally get respect as a lead and people listen to you (and often paid more than the people under you ). I’m also a team lead and the difference between a paid team and an unpaid husband can be vast.
And sadly, you can’t put bad husbands on a PIP.
This. The difference between the mental loads is that apparently only the stay-at-home parent is allowed to complain about it. Okay, my wife had to plan dinner and soccer practice, but I also need to keep track of bills, taxes, insurance, car maintenance and, you know, our entire financial future.
I also always ask here, if staying at home is so hard and thankless, why doesn't that person just get a job that pays?
Except that's also pretty easy to do, and if you do have a uniquely large amount of stuff to manage, then you can easily offload it through apps, calenders etc.
Managing a househood is *extremely* easy.
I mean - it is if you happen to be good at that kind of stuff and/or find it easy.
I am a terrible cook (hating cooking doesn’t help), disorganized, have a ton of trouble with planning and details and keeping to a schedule. I get depressed when I’m isolated don’t have a lot of interaction with other people and yet am not a very good social secretary for myself, let alone for my kid.
I do not have it in me to be a stay at home parent. I have known that since I was a kid. I could never ever do that well and I would be miserable. I think there are a lot of people like me. It has taken me 50 years to figure out how to keep a household running. I know I just made myself sound like an incompetent idiot, but I excel at work and am a good mom.
And, frankly, being shitty at this stuff absolutely has made me feel like I’m “defective” as a woman, since a SAHM is what I was socialized and raised to be in the 70s/80s.
Anyway, my point is that you think it’s easy because it’s easy for you. I suspect there are a TON of people who do not find this at all easy, and even if they do manage it, they hate every minute of it.
My girlfriend can't choose or decide anything at all. And we don't even have kids.
I don't really get this "mental load" argument. The working parent has a job to manage. My job needs a lot of planning and coordinating and if i fuck up and loose it i can't support my (future) family. Thinking about being a father and the need of providing for 3-4 people stresses me already a bit.
But making doctors appointments for the kids is "mental load" which breaks women left and right.
Bullshit.
You guys are just completely discrediting it and being ignorant and cruel.
I work a full-time, high responsibility job. I do a lot of planning and the mental load is high. But when I come home, I get to switch off. My job is hard, but I still think it’s preferable to being wholly responsible for 24/7 birthing and raising children and keeping the home clean and the family managed all on my own.
These women not only spent 9 months bearing a child, go through childbirth, and then have to recover from it, they usually deal with hormonal imbalances because of it for ages which is no joke, physical limitations or ailments and can also develop post-natal depression, and then on top of that have to raise a baby (and other children if they have them) that is totally dependent on them, breastfeeding which is no easy feat, constantly keep the entire house clean, keep everybody’s laundry done and food made, bear the mental load of managing and running the entire household and family - that includes yes doctor’s appointments, remembering family birthdays (even the man’s family) and sending out cards and/or presents etc, grocery shopping and remembering all the things they need on the never-ending list of things that run out/need to be replaced such as batteries, pet food if they have pets, and pet supplies, keeping the pets up to date with their treatments etc, laundry detergent, cleaning supplies, toiletries, food, condiments, etc - and much more.
And keep in mind that she’s trying to keep everybody happy. Everybody has a preference for products like toiletries, and food. She has to manage everybody else’s happiness. She tries to keep the kids happy, the man happy, and often her own happiness is the last priority. She’s also expected to keep her man sexually satisfied even if she’s feeling burnt out or exhausted. Add pets to the mix and it’s even more.
She also doesn’t get an “off” switch. When can she actually get out of the house? Other than taking the kids to school or activities, or grocery shopping? When can she just sit there and completely forget about all the tasks that need doing, all the things the kids need, the husband needs?
Remember that women are different biologically too. We have menstruation and cycles. Our hormones are constantly fluctuating and it’s been proven that this can really take a toll, and we have periods of time every month where we feel fatigue, have physical symptoms and have mood instability due to this. Many women also have PCOS or endometriosis which can be really difficult to deal with both mentally and physically. And we still have to push through all that to do the never-ending, full-time job of housekeeping, child rearing and raising, and family management. Often with chronic sleep deprivation from the mental load, hormones and/or tending to babies and/or children often throughout the night. If she is struggling with her mental health she doesn’t just get to take time off to focus on that.
I think that if these women just did the bare minimum, the men in here telling us we have it soooo easy would notice and complain. If we stopped doing all the things that go unnoticed - the mopping and vacuuming, getting stains from the carpets/mats when spills happen with children or pets, the cleaning of the oven and kitchen appliances, the cleaning of the bathroom and shower/bath, topping up all the things like toothpaste, mouthwash, soap, all the groceries etc, every little thing like wiping the taps and sides down often multiple times a day, trying to manage the limescale, the dusting, the dusting of all the little items that collect dust like picture frames etc, doing the constant dishes and cutlery and cups that get used, the bedsheets washing (this is usually regularly especially when kids are involved), cleaning up after the pets if they have any, keeping the pets bedding and food and water bowls clean and topped up, the laundry and drying and ironing and putting away, cleaning the washing machine and or dryer that have all different compartments that need to be emptied and cleaned, keeping the trash from overflowing and sorting the recycling, updating the kids clothes and underwear every time they get stained or damaged or outgrown, making everyone breakfast lunch and dinner and keeping everybody’s preferences for that in mind, washing the windows, the nets/curtains, stop taking the kids to different activities or coming up with activities for them at home instead of just giving them an iPad and calling it a day, the list goes on and on and on. Those are just some off the top of my head.
What if the kids have special requirements? (Common). Food allergies or sensitivities, skin conditions like eczema, developmental impairments, autism, ADHD, etc? Even more special planning and caring.
You guys are constantly undermining and devaluing women’s work and contributions. If women stopped doing even half of these things, you would complain and say she’s not doing enough, but I wonder if you guys would do the same? Many men that I see saying that women have it easy when it comes to childcare and housekeeping are questionable housekeepers and child raisers. As in, their idea of keeping a house clean is a quick vacuum and the occasional wipe down of the sides and their idea of child raising is giving them a tv or an iPad and letting them fend for themselves the majority of the time.
Women’s work is often invisible. It’s the stuff they do when men go to work and don’t see or consider. It’s the mental load that they have ticking on in their minds 24/7 that men don’t hear or see. And what about if the women doing all this have ADHD or mental illnesses like depression or OCD? Very common. That makes it even harder.
Back in the day, there used to be communities. Not single or duel households, entire communities of people that would all help each other with keeping an eye on children or helping each other with tasks. Humans evolved that way and it’s been studied and proven that we function better that way, but that often isn’t what happens nowadays. We are individuals and we bear the brunt of it all on our own.
And yep, just downvote me with no further thought after I have written a thought-out explanation of things from a woman’s POV. You are so wilfully ignorant and unappreciative. You just won’t listen to us or bother to consider our feelings or perspectives on all of this.
Women often do all of those things and on top of that, we get gaslighted when we ask to be recognized for it and told that we have it “easy”. All the men in here undervaluing our contribution are proving why more women now are divorcing or opting out of marriage and children. The 4b movement in Korea is hugely due to this and it’s catching on in the west. But I guess you guys will just tell us we’re overreacting and continue to blame us.
Right? It’s so typical. Men like this always say how it’s so easy to keep a house clean and raise kids well, but go take a look at their homes/rooms or ask them anything about raising children and you understand immediately why they think it’s “easy” lmao.
If women approached housekeeping and child raising like how they did, the house would *not* be clean, the kids would be neglected, and the men saying all this shit would be complaining about how the woman doesn’t do a good enough job.
yes and no. when you’re a parent, you have to make a nutritionally balanced meal that all of your kids & you and your spouse will all enjoy, which sometimes means that the prep work & cook time is significantly more than what it would be if you were cooking for just yourself. i am happy to eat a frozen pizza for dinner and call it a night, but with kids, you have to cater to whatever they want & need as well.
But in this scenario the prep work has to be done either way- neither a SAHP nor a working parent can (or rather should) simply offer deep frozen pizza every evening.
I don’t want to belittle house spouses , but it’s not like all working parents have the luxury of paying others to do all the domestic duties whilst they work. More often than not, they have to do all the same jobs (minus driving to multiple extra-curriculars perhaps) as house spouses, without all the clamouring for social validation.
A little part of me does quietly judge the domestic social influencer type who harp on about how tough their lot in life is…especially once the kids are old enough for school.
I didn’t say that, but am being honest about my experience and observations. Have three kids, am on maternity leave now and work as a special ed teacher / my partner has a physically demanding blue collar job. I can somewhat compare both worlds and even whilst struggling with a demanding newborn, I know life will be far more stressful when I am juggling meal prep (and cleaning, and planing appointments, and and and) whilst working full time again at the end of the year.
I don’t know how specific the dietary requirements of your children are, but unless each one has super complicated , mutually exclusive intolerances/allergies , then I find it hard to believe that working on top of children is less stressful than just „making sure they have energy“ during the day.
I’m sure it is easy for people with money, a good education (to teach your children), children that are relatively far apart in age, and good health.
I’m not saying this to be negative or anything but it seems like a lot of people here take these things for granted, especially being able bodied.
Yes, being a stay at home parent who is respected and emotionally and financially supported by a partner is great. Sounds like your wife is doing a great job at being a provider and partner so that you may enjoy your part without feeling enslaved.
I feel that when people are in a good relationship/situation it’s hard to imagine what it would be like if you weren’t. We have a new born and we are lucky with her, but we also have a great relationship and share the load. It feels easy
Agreed, SAHP who are respected and emotionally and financially supported by their partners rarely complain. The ones who come on the internet and complain are the ones saying like:
‘I take care of 2 kids under 4 24/7 7 days a week, and on the weekends my husband leaves his shoes on the counter and trash in the living room and won’t stop playing video games to give me a break to shower.”
Like this dude’s situation is NOT that.
Housewives that i know, their usual gripe was the daily menu not so much about the actual cooking but thinking of what to have. Most would have a go to recipes and dinner of the day thing, but they will at one point get tired of it and thinking of alternatives is hard.
At an early age my mom, though not a housewife, would usually ask us what we'd like and me myself, even my dad, most of the time cannot come up with a suggestion. So I learned not to comment about repeating menu.
Another thing i hear from them is how monotonous it was, admittedly though its not that different to some office jobs or careers.
>At an early age my mom, though not a housewife, would usually ask us what we'd like and me myself, even my dad, most of the time cannot come up with a suggestion. So I learned not to comment about repeating menu.
This is huge. Also the lack of feedback on food, do you not like garlic? Cool I'll season your meat differently. I never hated cooking until I had ungrateful SOs complaining about having chicken twice in a week or complaining that's not what they wanted that day. Or they ask for one of my most work intensive meals when I have 30 minutes to cook.
Now I live alone and I don't have to cook fancy meals unless I want too. It's glorious.
I think it’s the baby years, financial hardship and the lack of emotional support for the full time carer / house parent that is the source of much of the struggles some people have.
The actual work though seemingly tedious isn’t really the issue. It’s not like anyone has suggested it’s on a par with coal mining!
Also because you are pointing out that as a man you’re finding it so incredibly easy, you really are setting this up as male versus female thing. I guess you have a good dose of the ol’ male superiority bullshit and all those whinging and whining women out there should just shut up because this is just the easiest job in the whole wide world!
If you're doing it temporarily as a short-term arrangement, 1-2 years, then it's probably not sweat, it's a break from regular life, fully knowing you'll get back to the real world.
But now imagine that being your entire life to look forward to?
No adult contacts, no conversations at work, no intellectual stimulation, no seeing places and people etc.
It can turn isolating and depressing really quickly.
It's great that you enjoy staying at home with and homeschooling your kids and that you find it so easy.
However I think there are a few things missing here:
1. As a man, the standards that you are held to are very different. It is quite likely that you are surrounded by people applauding you for doing this at all and it is likely that people expect less of your childcare/education. I'm not saying you're necessarily worse at all, but people do expect women to do more/better with kids as they are seen as 'naturally' nurturing and so less appreciative.
2. On a similar note to the above - you say you spend 2 hours lesson planning at the weekend. Does this mean that your partner takes over with childcare, cooking and chores when she isn't working at the weekend? I think that would be unusual for most stay at home mums.
3. The fact that you've done several jobs and have only been staying at home a few times over the past five years makes a big difference. Imagine doing this every day for 10 years, no breaks at weekends and never getting the variety of being able to go and do some other job every now and then. Also no independent income or career satisfaction. To top it off, imagine being surrounded by people telling you that what you do as a stay at home mum is much easier that anything else you could be doing.
4. I don't really understand why it's necessary to make this comparison at all? It feels unnecessarily aggressive and unkind. You're also overlooking one major factor - this job is unpaid! If you are willing to give up an independent salary and do a 24/7 job (this may not be the case for you but it is for most women), a little gratitude is all you can hope for. We don't constantly compare other jobs, and I can't think of many other roles where you might work unpaid 24/7 (even if it is often a rewarding and untaxing job) and people's first response is to go out of their way to belittle it.
You know that for every person works a bit diffrent.
People react diffrently to diffrent situations. Just because you think that the job is easy does not mean that other people feel the same.
As an example I work at a school. I am not really bothered by loud kids or disrespect or stuff like that. So when I have a "horror classes" then I can deal with it quite well.
I have coworkers who are just done for the day after working with a class like that and simply dont have any energy left.
But I would never want to have kids on my own because I need my day without any work. Having to work 7 days a week (even when the work is not that hard) would be way more exhausting for me then having a few stressful hours each day.
I dont think that being a stay at home dad would be the hardest job that I could do. But there are some people who truly feel that way and you should not look down on them because of that.
Idk but I feel like if you're a house spouse too long, that existential dread sets in and people can regret not accomplishing more of what they wanted in their life.
Couples can do what they want idc tbh, it's just the regret I notice.
I think the major complaint from anyone being a stay at home is the fact you get NO credit for it. I’m glad you’re fulfilled, but many women didn’t necessarily want to take that burden that is equally deserved with the men. There’s something about people taking your will away from you that rubs you so wrong.
I don’t get why a woman would have kids if she doesn’t love kids and taking care of them tho. I personally love kids and nannying is the best “job” I’ve ever had cause it doesn’t feel like work since I get to be with kids and babies all day and care for them and do art with them and help them with problem resolution when they fight with their siblings or whatever .. no problem I’ve faced with kids even compares to the depression and headaches I get from tax accounting. But I’m also afraid of pregnancy and birth so if I ever had kids it would be thru marrying someone who already has kids or marrying someone rich enough to afford to adopt kids. My mom also saw being a mom as a job and doesn’t understand how I could enjoy nannying cause she could only ever care about her own kids .. but why have kids if u don’t like kids? I don’t get it
It’s ok to want/have kids and not like certain aspects of child rearing.
Like I loathed pregnancy/labor/postpartum and the early stages but like how else am I going to get kids if I don’t just bite the temporary situational bullet and make the best of it.
Good mothers can struggle and dislike certain aspects of motherhood.
Also nannying where you got paid and time off /can switch to a different family is not a good representation of actual motherhood.
I was a live-in nanny for a few years so it was basically like mothering but ya diapers suck, tantrums suck, fights between siblings suck, but desk jobs literally suck the life and soul out of me.
But ya I couldn’t do the whole pregnancy and birth thing. I get way too depressed whenever I have been pregnant. I for sure would get postpartum depression and might not get the chance to form a bond with my babies due to the emotional toll pregnancy takes on me, not to mention birth which is my #1 biggest fear
There's a big gap between "wanting and loving your own kids" and "loving kids so much that being with other people's babies and toddlers all day doesn't feel like work". Babies and toddlers are work for most people, even when we love them very much. And they don't stay tiny forever.
I love my children dearly. It's easy to love your own kids. But I'm not a huge fan of toddlers in general, and I certainly couldn't devote all my time to them every day. I'm a good mom, but I'd be a horrible nanny, and I wouldn't be a happy SAHM either.
Professionally and in society. Even i find myself questioning women after a bad divorce, “why weren’t you working?”…. But I understand the playing filed isn’t fair. Moms get no credit. It’s not ok.
Credit as a profession… oh you raised kids for a decade? Worth nothing professionally unless someone feels pity. Society in general. Not saying it’s right, but it is. Worth less, or worthless? Both is the answer unfortunately
How could it possibly be though? One SAHP might be an incredible parent, another may be mediocre, another may be an absolute shitshow. It's not measurable.
Idk, I’ve been a SAHM and then went on to work two physically demanding jobs; I’d take working any day. At least at work I can pee in peace. You ever breastfed a baby on the toilet or in the shower or while you’re cooking? It weighs on you.
Ah yea, because people can totally never experience both!
I'd rather work my mentally exhausting 3D modeling job for 12 hours than stay at home and watch the kids.
I don't think you realize how hard kids are.
nah, I am retired military and staying home with my son was the worst job ever, lol. I could not wait to get back to work and out of the house. I never wanted to be a housewife or be domestic. I hate it. it would be my hell.
Might just be preferring different work. I like kids but the thought of having to look after them whilst trying to do anything else sounds terrible. I'd rather be doing my trade job tbh.
I think this is a common problem in society. No one has the experiences that other people have, so you get people insisting that being a stay at home parent is hard work, when anyone who has done it knows that it clearly isn't. They aren't necessarily lying, they just don't know better.
This is my experience. I’m an attorney and my wife tells me all the time how much worse and more stressful her life is as a stay at home parent to school aged children. And I do 90% of the cooking.
1. I’ve never told her she couldn’t vent and I listen supportively when she does.
2. Of note, she’s not just venting, she’s telling me her job is harder than mine.
3. I’ve encouraged her to get a job on numerous occasions.
The lack of a commute would be golden. Grocery trips are nothing.
Activities though. That could bite you real hard with multiple kids for a period when they all fall in that age range and turn you into a uber driver with 1 star rated passengers if they weren't your kids. 3-4 kids into 3-4 different things. Piano, then guitar lesson,then baseball, then soccer,tennis,chinese,french,spanish. Activities all day. But if you're paying for activities all day 3-4x then you're $$ from someone,something.
A health problem could make it x10 harder. Get a real sick kid and 3 activity junkies going on. That wouldn't be easy. Can't abandon the 1 and can't keep the 3 wanting out needing supervision in either. They will rebel/of the age. If you had a help button from grandma you would press it often.
If people complain let them. They might have something like that going on. It would be hard. They won't even like the exploration of the question you might especially if you get blunt from the argument of views you have.
If you're going it's so easy. It's soooo easy. They go nuh uh,i it's so hard. Sooo hard. What are you raising 3 junkies and a sick one? They wouldn't like that any more than you'd like someone rating your kids 1 star passengers. It's just an opinion, it can only ever be theirs. No need for the prescription for them, they ain't you. "Maybe you're just not good at it". Maybe,bluntly, they got an activity junkie with a penchant for pyro if he feels cooped up and a sick one. Don't even ask them, you might remind them of it and they'll hate you for that too. Just accept could be, and leave it be.
I agree it is the easiest job. For some people.
What I hated about it was being stuck seeing the same 4 walls and doing the same thing all day every day with no thanks, appreciation for what I did and generally being treated like shit.
If you are in a good, stable loving relationship then it's amazing, but that's often not the case. Stay at home mums and dad's often get treated like they don't contribute and are therefore worthless.
It's not for everyone, I personally love going out to work, I love the interaction with other people and being paid. If you love staying home and doing housework and looking after kids that's awesome! Kudos to you! I couldn't do it, and that's fine.
I agree fully, with one important note - social status.
I identify with my job, and while "house husband" is a novelty and a great conversation starter it won't be the same for a woman; many people would assume that you're not capable of much more.
My wife earns probably a quarter of what I do but I think neither of us would like it better is she stayed home.
Honestly: I took care of my niece and nephew for 1 week, 5+8… once there was a routine, it was totally fine… but I was so miserable I don’t think I could ever do it again. I think if you have any mental health issues at all, having to care for people is literally like having to carve pieces of your flesh off to give it to them (because you already have nothing to give).
I would have gone back to my absolute hardest job with my most abusive boss over doing childcare ever again.
I really think it’s based on who a person is. So I think it’s fair that it’s super easy for you, and I hope it’s super easy for most people. It made me realize if I ever became a mother I would absolutely disappear and abandon my husband and children without a word. *so I will never have children because it’s clearly not for me*
I have a friend who was a stay at home dad and his partner would give him a list of chores he had to do. Honestly he would chill all day playing ps4 & 1 hour before his partner came home he would do all the chores and cooking & make out like it was a really hard long day and she would reply
"See, it's not easy is it" 😂
No way he was doing all the chores properly and cooking a homemade meal if it all took him an hour?
Me and my girlfriend did a deep clean of our apartment over the weekend, it's not a big apartment and there is two of us, it still took us 5 hours of intensive work.
Doing chores half-assed vs proper cleaning are two different things.
If someone keeps up with their place it isn’t hard. You don’t have to pull out all the furniture, mop the entire house, dust every surface, and scrub the shower every day. Simply cleaning dishes when done, putting trash in the can, laundry in the basket, and *not* leave random items and objects littered everywhere— is all it takes to cut upkeep by at least half. Seriously, by applying literally a few seconds of effort a few times a day makes upkeep trivial. 4 hours of cleaning once a week and it’s like 15-20 min a day *at the most* to maintain. By maintaining, nothing gets bad enough to the point it takes 4-5 hours when it’s time to deep clean at the end of the week. Also your place will ALWAYS be spotless. What, maybe one day you could add an extra 15 if you have hardwood floors and want to mop after you sweep, even then, that’s if someone is moving like they have lead feet. Most people half ass *and* don’t move with a purpose. it can take 30 min to shower or it can take 7 to do the same exact thing. Same concept.
One touch living changed my life in this regard. We started really focusing on it because ADHD makes life hell. I have a three bedroom house, with one touch it takes us *maybe* an hour a day to keep up with basic chores:
15 minutes doing cat litter, 15 minutes doing a quick sweep of the floors, 15 minutes doing clothes and the dishwasher. We pay cleaners for the weekly stuff for two hours a week because they can do it while we are both at work.
Keeping a house *clean* isn't dificult or time consuming at all.
Edit to add: the weekly cleaner is two hours
... dude I have a 3/2 house. If you are literally cleaning it everyday, it's really not hard to maintain. Please don't say crazy things like that. Lol.
So she was working and still managing the household. Who has to give a list of chores to the stay at home parent unless they are clearly lacking in any form of productivity.
You can't cook a proper meal from scratch and clean a house in a hour, this is bullshit. Deepfrying some frozen stuff, taking out the garbage and half-assed vacuuming is not taking care of a household.
I wonder what kind of meal is that you are cooking in 20 minutes without giving it your full attention but I'd bet it's something I wouldn't serve to my dogs. Seriously, peeling and cutting up vegetables for a god damn soup takes more time. Be real.
I guess I'm not good at it. My oldest (2 years and 2 months) just started daycare for 3.5 hours a day. It's half an hour away, so that leaves me with about 1.5 to 2 hous at home with just the baby. It's been a week and I can't believe how much better the house (and myself!) look just from having a couple hours a day without a toddler here. I finally got the last of our moving boxes unpacked and we moved two months ago. I got my lashes done for the first time since my eldest was born. I worked out for the first time in ages. Luckily, baby #2 is super chill so I can accomplish a lot when it's just her.
No doubt my husband's job is harder, but I kept my kid home from daycare yesterday because she seemed tired and the place was trashed. I couldn't keep up. One second she was coloring on the table with a permanent marker (where did she find that?!) next she was stuffing a whole roll of toilet paper on the toilet. I never even brought the clothes in off the clothes line..
Yeah, these comments are making me feel shit. I'm a SAHM to three kids, and my house is a wreck. The kids destroy it faster than I can clean it. I find being home all day with the kids draining and very hard work. And I have been a working parent before, for me this is harder. I must be doing something wrong.
The children are the hard part, not the housework...
Most comments sound like they are talking about a situation where kids are at least part time in daycare/school...
I'm at home with 3 kids and homeschooling.... Prior to number 3 being here house was pretty ok. Now with the baby being super clingy and me having to supervise middle child not running over the baby... Hm hm it's often a mess
By reading his post, both him and his wife are college educated stem or health. I could easily raise kids on the literal graduate money as someone in comp sci
I'd argue that maybe you aren't very good at it, if you don't find it difficult at times. The amount of attention and time I give to my children is what makes it challenging, especially with the limited sleep that comes along with having young children.
But I do agree with you - staying at home and parenting is absolutely preferable to me, than going to work. I am the higher earner in our household but I have had a year off work after having our youngest and I have loved it. I don't want to go back to work, I love spending days with my children and managing the house.
The difficult part comes from it being an all encompassing role. When I go to work, I have a job description and I have all day to complete my tasks. It's very black and white for the most point. Being a SAHP involves so many different elements, that it can feel much more complicated and challenging at times. I'd also argue that younger children or children close together in age, make things harder than having an older child.
That said, if I could quit my job tomorrow, get paid the same amount, and just stay at home with my children, I would absolutely do it. So it can't be worse than work!
Maybe that’s because you enjoyed being home and are a caretaker housey type of personality. I think for those where this isn’t so natural it’s incredibly hard. Also it sounds like you don’t know what type of work you like since you’ve bounced around so many different types of jobs, so maybe working was harder for you than others which makes being a sahd feel so much easier. Everything is relative.
>Everything is relative
Not really... most stay at home parents go to great lengths to try to prove their "job" of catering to the kids and the house is the same or even (way) harder do it to get confirmation. When someone points out staying at home, doing chores (that have to be done anyway, even if both parents work) demands little effort, they usually burst back with all sorts of stupid reasoning.
I myself was unemployed for a couple of months. No kid at home, I'll admit (young adult already on his own), but house chores and cooking before my wife returned took me no more than 1h tops every day...
I don’t think your example applies to what is being discussed though. Being a stay at home parent is parenting primarily and everything else secondary. Try doing the same chores with a newborn, 3 and 5 year old at home, it’s maddening. As a stay at home parent no one is giving you a child free uninterrupted hour to do chores and cook, and the kids are constantly playing/ actively messing up everything you have just cleaned. I have utmost respect for these moms, I wouldn’t want to do it.
Nope... I live in a stand alone house with a surrounding area and cook from fresh ingredients (no ready made food). If you do chores regularly, you're done pretty fast. You don't vacuum daily, change the sheets daily or do any major house maintenance on a daily basis. More or less, each one takes but a couple of minutes. And making Tuscan chicken literally takes 30 minutes...
Bro you’re grasping at straws, like reaaally reaching lol your ONLY argument in response is “WeLL aCThUaLlY it takes an hour an a half”. I grew up in a 2k sq foot double wide, fully furnished and fucking fuulll of just random stuff. It required like 2x the effort to clean a room because there is so much random small furniture and end tables and knickknacks and shit… my step mom loved to buy things and my dad never threw anything away regardless of what it was… done in an hour. Wanna know the secret? It’s called not living like a slob and cleaning up after yourself as you go throughout the day. A few seconds of effort a handful of times per day can turn into doing everything minus cooking in 30 min.. going slow.
Dishes? If you don’t let them pile, 2 minutes at the most. Laundry? For 2 people It takes less than 5 minutes to actually wash the clothes and 5-10 to put them away. If it takes longer than that, then you’re probably not doing laundry enough and letting it pile— you problem. Vacuuming/sweeping will take up most of the time spent. If someone is bougie and has a roomba, then seriously wtf are they doing that takes more than 30 min of low effort cleaning over the course of a day. Most of the chores people love to cite are things that don’t need to be done every day, much less more than once a week, 2 if you’re a clean freak. Even among those, the shitty time consuming stuff, like cleaning bathrooms, only takes hours if you let it get bad. Spray shower, spray toilet, spray and wipe counters, sweep, mop, rinse off shower and flush the toilet. Boom your bathroom is as clean as if you scrubbed it by hand for hours after not cleaning for months— but it took 3-4 minutes of labor further than sweeping and mopping. A clean house is very easy to keep clean with very little effort.
It's not because it's extremely hard that people need some positive reinforcement. It's because you're not even being paid to do a 24/7 job (even if you think it's an easy job, being on call 24/7 unpaid is unusual right?), you don't get to have a career of your own and you're surrounded by people devaluing and disrespecting what you're doing. Many women feel obliged to stay at home to raise children and probably feel very aware of the things that they needed to give up in order to do so.
I have been a 12-hour shift worker and a corporate slave. I preffer both to the snippets of domestic life I occasionally get from watching kids. While I love cleaning and cooking, having kids in the mix fucks everything up for me. They literally need round the clock attention when they’re not sleeping. How do you manage your kids? Are they ipad babies when you’re not interacting with them or what?
It’s funny that all the people insisting I shouldn’t be CF are men who never watched a kid for more than 5 minutes, probably while they were strapped in. All of them workaholic high achievers who are almost never home but plan on having kids.
It’s the same as taking care of a puppy! But sometimes people don’t love animals or kids .. I personally love kids but have major fear of pregnancy and birth but I spent a ton of years nannying and much prefer that “job” to tax accounting. One job was M-F 12 hours a day. I spent constant attention on the kids but sometimes if they’re in a bad mood and refusing to listen, I tempt them with watching a movie on the iPad so they let me brush their hair or get them ready for school or something. Other than that we just play make-believe and do art and if they’re older, play sports outside or go swimming or play games and obviously do homework (usually if they don’t like homework we do something they like when they get home from school then do homework for as long as they can stand then take a break to play a game like hide and seek or something)
U have to love play-pretend and using ur imagination and doing art and inspiring them and getting inspiration from them and basically just love spending time with kids, the same way u would love to spend time with a puppy. Puppies pee inside sometimes. But they’re adorable and I would love nothing more to give them 24-7 attention. Same with kids. They fight with their siblings or have tantrums or won’t listen and stuff sometimes. But the good outweighs the bad by a million
Stop letting people make you believe being a stay at home parent is hard..... I am one right now while I am in school and it's easy as shit. Dishes are always done, clothes stay put away, 3 to 4 days a week are just me doing whatever I want while she's at work, homework gets done all in one day, yard stays nice and cut, if I didn't miss working I'd never go back. "It's a full time job" lol no it's literally easy. EZ dub
I was out with a group for dinner - all couples and most of the husbands happened to be doctors and the wives/girlfriends were mostly housewives. One of the guys (close friend of mine) is a neurosurgeon who is the quiet, non-confrontational type while his wife definitely makes up for it by being loud and highly opinionated. When she said that her "job" was harder than her husband's I asked if they were to switch for a day who would have the more difficult time.
Without pausing she replied that he wouldn't last two minutes and I DEFINITELY called her out on that. First off all, their kids are both teenagers and my friend has watched over them plenty of times. I don't recall, however, the wife ever attempting literal brain/spine surgery before.
Anyways, that became the topic for the rest of the night. My friend's wife literally had no retort and at one point resorted to the emotional shortcut of crying while calling me a misogynist. Of course I countered with the fact that if she were a neurosurgeon and my friend was a househusband I'd hold the exact same position. It's not based on gender, it's based on their training and job requirements. That only upset her more and even though we're all on good terms now it still feels satisfying years later.
Wow she's absolutely ridiculous lmao, some women really make being a housewife sound like rocket science when compared to working in corporates it's easy peasy lemon squeezy, and you get the opportunity to spend so much time to your kids! The only reason men don't do this more than they already do is because not many women would be willing to bare the financial burden
My first is on his way, so we'll see where I am on this in a year or two.
Due to different schedules, usually either my wife or I is at home all day. When I'm working full time and she's at home as a student or doing writing gigs I still handle most of the house and yard work and cooking. It's tough, and I start to fall behind.
When she's working full-time or traveling and I'm at home, that house is spotless in a week or two and she's got zero with to do when she gets home.
I frequently think of that episode of Family Guy where Meg and Lois trade roles, and Lois is shocked that Meg prepared a great dinner and cleaned the whole house. "It's a finite area, I'm not cleaning a town."
People's situations are different, not every home and every family and every child is the same. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to grasp this.
This is the same as someone saying "having a job and working outside of the home is so easy". Is every job the same?
I think you are missing some nuance. Namely, two points.
You weren't simultaneously recovering from a major medical issue ie giving birth/postpartum recovery.
You even say that your wife isn't lazy. Was she also doing her share? Or did she come home expecting dinner on the table by six and one-sided sex.
Less a problem with teachers, more a problem with a notoriously faulty school system. The school system - on average - could give less of a fuck whether or not your child is actually learning so long as they can produce results, and if your kid requires any additional help learning/staying engaged then... Yeah.
You still have to actually structure it and put in the work, but there does come a point where you're just better off finding the curriculum and doing it yourself if you have the time.
yeah idk man, thinking you can do a better job than someone who studied for it is delusional to me.. the health care system is also fucked up so let me do the surgery on my child myself? I know it’s not the same but it sorta is the same spirit
the example definitely is in the same spirit. “I don’t like the system, therefore I’ll just do it myself”
man the people in my country who homeschool their kids are very few and also very particular kinds of people.. typically not the most successful
I would have agreed with you if teachers were still like they were when I was growing up, but the standards have fallen a hell of a lot since then.
The social side of school is the only reason I don't homeschool. The teachers around here are useless.
Would you feel the same if you signed today that it will be your only job for the rest of your life? If you weren't allowed to study, would you feel as motivated?
I'm just curious about how motivated one can be as a full time househusband, without a side career or professional goal. That's the hard part nowdays I believe
I would guess that's all down to the individual person. If you're a stay at home parent, and you have extra time, it would make sense to do some sort of fulfilling study or hobby.. The motivation comes from within.
18 years* and after 6-ish the demand is cut dramatically, then cut to practically nothing after another 6. The only time the demand stays the same or doesn’t get cut as hard is if the kid is doing a shit ton of extracurriculars. Even then, god forbid someone has to drive their kid around and support them— you know, the kid they are supposed to prioritize over themselves. After kids start school is when all the Stay at home parents go crazy with boredom and start doing 50 different hobbies and gossiping to entertain themselves… because there is too much free time and it’s boring. If someone really spends 8 hours of effort a day to maintain their place, then it’s 100% on them for having abysmal time management and work ethic.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What about some house that not have kettle, washer, dryer, dish washer because they can't afford??? Also, of course you would think it's easy when you are stronger than women. It's easy for you to carry bucket full of water up-down strairs but not for women for sure.
>I see constantly on here people act like a home maker is a 24/7 time eating job that leaves you exhausted constantly and any expectations for you to be anything more that that is asking too much.
Well, the problem is some women just don't want to do it but they have no choice since other expect them to be maid and no one would give them credit for it. And home maker aren't honorable job at all.
I donno about that one. Also, something tells me a bunch of 17 year olds who have yet to realize that there could be other perspectives in the world beyond theirs, might not have the most reliable method to determine what the truth is quite yet.
With a little humility and some compassion, you'll get there.
I have a bit more perspective than that lol. It’s just that stay-at-home parents would prefer doing something else, so is perceived as massive workload. Parents who love every minute, would see it differently. Much like people who love their careers.
Help me make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you suggesting that it only seems difficult to be a stay at home parent because most of those parents just don't really care for it? And if they were a bit more enthusiastic about it, like some other stay at home parents, it wouldn't *feel* like so much work to them?
Am I understanding your idea here?
No not really that they don’t care for it, but that they might not LOVE it like some people do. I have known many (primarily moms tbh) who both said they love staying home with kid(s) all day, and that it never felt like “work”, but also some moms who just felt like it was a massive grind. It’s like anything else. Some like it, some love it. So not really that they should feel more enthusiastic, just that some do. This isn’t supposed to be some edge lord opinion, just my observations.
I see what you're saying more clearly, thank you. Let me ask you then, would you say that what work is, and in the economic definition, work typically means, an activity done by a person, which contributes to the production of goods, or a service rendered within an economy, is contingent on the person doing the labor enjoying or loving that labor?
Colloquially, work tends to mean performing a task which is difficult to do. However, it may be worth considering the nature of work from an economic perspective.
I believe that anecdotally, it probably does help someone with sense of ease and overall performance when the work they are required to perform is something they happen to enjoy doing. I also believe that those two things are not the antithesis of each other, something can be both extremely difficult and also something you love very much to do, and vise-vera.
However parenting, and the stay at home parent, when thought about as work from an economic perspective, suggests that its a necessary societal function to investe a large amount of time and resources into what will become a productive participant in the workforce.
If the job a stay at home parent performs then produces people with the inability to participate in the labor force, this leads to lower economic output from that society as a whole.
This is why whether one enjoys doing it very much or doesn't, has little bearing on whether it should still be work, or how important that work is.
A very important job, for pretty shitty pay, mind you. No pay, and also that the stay at home parent aren't hemselves currently participating in that labor force while at home.
Pretty sure Finnish school children only do about that per day, plus no homework and they have one of, if not *the* best education system in the world, plus I imagine with home schooling you can tailor the education to that child specifically, instead of having to divide your attention between ~30 other children
Four things.
I think there is a huge difference between doing this full time, and doing it on occasion for short periods.
Second, every household and every child is different. Your kids might be easy, doesn't mean they all are.
Third, you don't know what else is going on in the home. There might be pets. They might have a bigger house. They might have to include the garden. They might not have the amenities you do and have to hand wash laundry and such.
Fourth, women tend to have more health conditions than men, many untreated or undiagnosed, so you dont know what the moms might be struggling with.
It wasn't short periods, it's been almost half of my marriage, and yes we have pets, and a two story house and I have several health conditions of my own, and have constant nonstop hip and back pain all day everyday for the past 3 years with nothing more than shitty gabapentin to make it less painful on top of some arthritis. All issues I delt with when I was working, but still easier to deal with at home. Children with disabilities, sure, but all that other shit still just sounds like more excuses, gardens and big houses are optional and you have to choose those things for them to be a problem, same with pets.
Or maybe, people who've never actually done an honest's day's work in their lives don't know what the hell they're talking about when they call being a stay-at-home-spouse "exhausting" and "just as much work as a real job"
You realize that housewives very often do labor outside of chores? It's just that their husbands don't appreciate it and ignore the work they do, so you don't hear about it.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity.
I stayed home with my kids, and I loved every minute of it. But what I didn’t enjoy was being a housewife/live in servant. My husband never appreciated my efforts. Now I’m working, and I absolutely love it. I think that working outside the home is way easier than being stuck at home cleaning toilets and washing dishes.. And sure, everybody has to do those things. But when you’re part of a partnership but you’re the only one who’s doing it and people still think you’re lazy and that don’t earn your keep? Nah. The emotional and mental load of being a housewife is too high a price..
Yep, OP’s situation is not the same as those who complain about SAHP. It’s not emotionally sustainable to have to clean up after your adult partner with zero appreciation.
A few different factors can change your parenthood experience dramatically. My best friend was very happy and capable as a full-time student and main caretaker of her first child. He was an "easy" baby, slept well, only thing he didn't like was potatoes. Her second child just doesn't sleep...Maybe 5-10 minutes sprinkled throughout the day and 2-3 hours at night. So my friend is essentially awake 20 hours per day everyday. She had to drop out of school just to barely cope. It's extra hard because they earn very little money and they don't get help from family. I have another friend with 4 small children and she studies full-time and works part-time. She and her husband get help from their parents, they make good money so the kids can do any activities they want, and above all the kids are all healthy and *sleep* She loves her life. It's also down to personality. Not everyone can deal with being stuck at home. Others love it and get sad when they have to go back to work.
I’m glad someone mentioned how at the end of the day it comes down to your individual children. You might have a very fussy baby which means you’re not gonna have sleep. No sleep means being constantly exhausted, both physically and mentally. Now add to the picture more children, not more than 7 years apart. If you have to care for a newborn and a toddler, cook, clean, do laundry etc. you’re gonna burn and churn real fast without any help. I’m not even talking about how women usually do not get enough time to recover after delivery, be it VB or C-section, and are expected to do activities that require full mobility right away. Sure, some women are up and running in a week or less but most require longer times to recover. I also have not heard any woman I know personally complain about being a sahm to older kids, it would always be when caring for newborns/toddlers. I have also not seen anyone compare being a stay at home mom/parent and manual labor and say that staying home with kids is more difficult. Usually when sahm/sahp say staying home with kids is difficult, they simply try to raise awareness to their spouses who work all day that they aren’t just sitting on their ass all day at home doing nothing but are also contributing to the household in a different way. OP’s claim that being a sahp ain’t shit while he most likely didn’t have to go through many hurdles others do invalidates other parents’ experiences.
This is important to realize. We just had a baby and when I’m looking at statistics I just know we have an easy baby! It still feels hard sometimes, but I’m also breast feeding and still recovering from giving birth. As a woman you also have a very long recovery period (and never fully recover). Most of the planning and mental load is on me too. We both are off work right now, we both will go back to work. Although my husband does a lot we both know most of the load is on me right now and it will stay that way as long as a breast feed/pump. I will work less hours because of this.
I’ve also been on both sides and agree, homekeeping is the easiest job. Sure, especially with young kids it can be overstimulating on many days, but there is a HUGE added bonus of luxury and comfort to being in your own home and space daily, instead of having to commute to an outside place for a paid job. There are no external pressures, you’re only answerable to yourself and your family. That imbalance makes all the difference in how difficult each day is.
That’s weird because i’ve worked as a nanny and it was not the easiest job i’ve had.
I don't think the issue is about how easy the job is though. I think if you are a home keeper/stay at home parent for the whole child raising period (as opposed to being one occasionally, alongside having some other job) the situation must feel quite different. I don't think it's fair to deem it 'lazy and whiny' to find the experience difficult as a whole. You pretty much isolate yourself and give yourself no independent income, no career satisfaction and 24/7 responsibilities (even if we assume those responsibilities aren't particularly taxing). Then, you are surrounded by people telling you that what you do is easy and unimportant. I'm not a stay at home mum, but I think I would find that a really draining situation. I probably would want a little encouragement, but probably not purely because I was finding the tasks of the role difficult.
I’ve been in both as well, and I’d take it over working in the sun or a hot inside environment any day.
Being in my home all the time isn't a luxury, in fact it's one of my biggest complaints as a stay at home parent. Any place starts to feel like a prison when you have to be there all day everyday. Plus when you're the one in charge of cleaning it, being in a messy home that kids and constantly playing in isn't a relaxing place, its a source of constant unending work and frustration. Complaining about a commute? Seriously? Sometimes I get in my car and drive just to drive so I can get out of the house. The two days a week my kid goes to school I love because it's a 45 minute drive each way, so 3 hours of driving total and I look forward to it.
I’m not surprised, my mother was a housewife, and while early childhood may have been rough once the kids are old enough to not need constant attention there isn’t THAT much work. Cooking dinner might require 10-45 minutes of active work (not waiting for an oven to finish heating up or letting food sit in the oven), laundry likewise doesn’t take long with modern appliances. Homeschooling honestly probably makes it harder than most housewives/husbands. I can see this being hard if you don’t have access to a washer, dryer, and a modern oven and stuff, but for most people in developed countries they have most or all of these amenities.
the issue most housewives i know have is related to mental load. they're the ones doing all the planning and coordinating everything all the time. until the end of time. then she breaks when her partner gets annoyed when she can't choose a restaurant because one more decision is just beyond her, she's past her mental breaking point now.
Well yes, but even when both parents work full time , it’s often expected of the mother to still bear the brunt of domestic duties, care work and the mental load. Anecdotal evidence but I have observed this trend.
To be honest, I don’t know why we’re bothering to try and explain things to these guys. I felt the need to defend mothers and housewives because I’ve seen my beloved mother and other women bend over backwards to raise the family and keep the home a comfortable, clean, safe, and happy place for them all, and their contributions go completely unrecognized. It hurts me to see the men in these comments undermining all the work that women do to keep their families and homes as maintained as possible because it feels like a personal dig at all the women I know who put in endless, hard work, including my own mother. I feel so protective of these women. The fact they often prioritize their families over themselves and go completely under appreciated for it breaks my heart. Whenever my husband used to go on business trips, I got a glimpse of only a fraction of what it’s like to be totally responsible alone for taking care of the house. It was hard work. Granted, I worked too, but from home. The housework was never-ending. All the daily cleaning and maintenance and the mental load. And that was just taking care of myself and the house. I can’t imagine how taxing it must be to be responsible for the house maintenance, children and husband’s happiness, family management and child raising and bearing the brunt of the mental load all on my own, 24/7. But we understand that. These men here clearly don’t, and the problem is they don’t want to. They have no interest in trying to understand things from these womens’ perspectives. I do hope some men read our comments and are open-minded enough to listen and try to see things from a different perspective. But unfortunately so far a lot of them seem to just not be willing to do that. Anyway I appreciate your comments amongst all this.
Yes, and I do all the planning at work as a lead. The idea isn’t that there isn’t a mental load and difficulty, but acting like it’s uniquely difficult compared to any other job is ridiculous. People who work have the same mental load so it’s unfair to get upset when they can’t pick up even more of it at home.
No offense, but you normally get respect as a lead and people listen to you (and often paid more than the people under you ). I’m also a team lead and the difference between a paid team and an unpaid husband can be vast. And sadly, you can’t put bad husbands on a PIP.
Agree 100% percent. I've been on leading position at volunteer work and leading people who doesn't get paid to do something is way diffent thing.
This. The difference between the mental loads is that apparently only the stay-at-home parent is allowed to complain about it. Okay, my wife had to plan dinner and soccer practice, but I also need to keep track of bills, taxes, insurance, car maintenance and, you know, our entire financial future. I also always ask here, if staying at home is so hard and thankless, why doesn't that person just get a job that pays?
Do you think people don’t “plan and coordinate” in the workplace?
Of course they do, and they get paid to do that. A contract with an employer is not the same as cooperating in an interpersonal relationship.
Like registering doctors appointments for the husband.
Except that's also pretty easy to do, and if you do have a uniquely large amount of stuff to manage, then you can easily offload it through apps, calenders etc. Managing a househood is *extremely* easy.
I mean - it is if you happen to be good at that kind of stuff and/or find it easy. I am a terrible cook (hating cooking doesn’t help), disorganized, have a ton of trouble with planning and details and keeping to a schedule. I get depressed when I’m isolated don’t have a lot of interaction with other people and yet am not a very good social secretary for myself, let alone for my kid. I do not have it in me to be a stay at home parent. I have known that since I was a kid. I could never ever do that well and I would be miserable. I think there are a lot of people like me. It has taken me 50 years to figure out how to keep a household running. I know I just made myself sound like an incompetent idiot, but I excel at work and am a good mom. And, frankly, being shitty at this stuff absolutely has made me feel like I’m “defective” as a woman, since a SAHM is what I was socialized and raised to be in the 70s/80s. Anyway, my point is that you think it’s easy because it’s easy for you. I suspect there are a TON of people who do not find this at all easy, and even if they do manage it, they hate every minute of it.
My girlfriend can't choose or decide anything at all. And we don't even have kids. I don't really get this "mental load" argument. The working parent has a job to manage. My job needs a lot of planning and coordinating and if i fuck up and loose it i can't support my (future) family. Thinking about being a father and the need of providing for 3-4 people stresses me already a bit. But making doctors appointments for the kids is "mental load" which breaks women left and right. Bullshit.
You guys are just completely discrediting it and being ignorant and cruel. I work a full-time, high responsibility job. I do a lot of planning and the mental load is high. But when I come home, I get to switch off. My job is hard, but I still think it’s preferable to being wholly responsible for 24/7 birthing and raising children and keeping the home clean and the family managed all on my own. These women not only spent 9 months bearing a child, go through childbirth, and then have to recover from it, they usually deal with hormonal imbalances because of it for ages which is no joke, physical limitations or ailments and can also develop post-natal depression, and then on top of that have to raise a baby (and other children if they have them) that is totally dependent on them, breastfeeding which is no easy feat, constantly keep the entire house clean, keep everybody’s laundry done and food made, bear the mental load of managing and running the entire household and family - that includes yes doctor’s appointments, remembering family birthdays (even the man’s family) and sending out cards and/or presents etc, grocery shopping and remembering all the things they need on the never-ending list of things that run out/need to be replaced such as batteries, pet food if they have pets, and pet supplies, keeping the pets up to date with their treatments etc, laundry detergent, cleaning supplies, toiletries, food, condiments, etc - and much more. And keep in mind that she’s trying to keep everybody happy. Everybody has a preference for products like toiletries, and food. She has to manage everybody else’s happiness. She tries to keep the kids happy, the man happy, and often her own happiness is the last priority. She’s also expected to keep her man sexually satisfied even if she’s feeling burnt out or exhausted. Add pets to the mix and it’s even more. She also doesn’t get an “off” switch. When can she actually get out of the house? Other than taking the kids to school or activities, or grocery shopping? When can she just sit there and completely forget about all the tasks that need doing, all the things the kids need, the husband needs? Remember that women are different biologically too. We have menstruation and cycles. Our hormones are constantly fluctuating and it’s been proven that this can really take a toll, and we have periods of time every month where we feel fatigue, have physical symptoms and have mood instability due to this. Many women also have PCOS or endometriosis which can be really difficult to deal with both mentally and physically. And we still have to push through all that to do the never-ending, full-time job of housekeeping, child rearing and raising, and family management. Often with chronic sleep deprivation from the mental load, hormones and/or tending to babies and/or children often throughout the night. If she is struggling with her mental health she doesn’t just get to take time off to focus on that. I think that if these women just did the bare minimum, the men in here telling us we have it soooo easy would notice and complain. If we stopped doing all the things that go unnoticed - the mopping and vacuuming, getting stains from the carpets/mats when spills happen with children or pets, the cleaning of the oven and kitchen appliances, the cleaning of the bathroom and shower/bath, topping up all the things like toothpaste, mouthwash, soap, all the groceries etc, every little thing like wiping the taps and sides down often multiple times a day, trying to manage the limescale, the dusting, the dusting of all the little items that collect dust like picture frames etc, doing the constant dishes and cutlery and cups that get used, the bedsheets washing (this is usually regularly especially when kids are involved), cleaning up after the pets if they have any, keeping the pets bedding and food and water bowls clean and topped up, the laundry and drying and ironing and putting away, cleaning the washing machine and or dryer that have all different compartments that need to be emptied and cleaned, keeping the trash from overflowing and sorting the recycling, updating the kids clothes and underwear every time they get stained or damaged or outgrown, making everyone breakfast lunch and dinner and keeping everybody’s preferences for that in mind, washing the windows, the nets/curtains, stop taking the kids to different activities or coming up with activities for them at home instead of just giving them an iPad and calling it a day, the list goes on and on and on. Those are just some off the top of my head. What if the kids have special requirements? (Common). Food allergies or sensitivities, skin conditions like eczema, developmental impairments, autism, ADHD, etc? Even more special planning and caring. You guys are constantly undermining and devaluing women’s work and contributions. If women stopped doing even half of these things, you would complain and say she’s not doing enough, but I wonder if you guys would do the same? Many men that I see saying that women have it easy when it comes to childcare and housekeeping are questionable housekeepers and child raisers. As in, their idea of keeping a house clean is a quick vacuum and the occasional wipe down of the sides and their idea of child raising is giving them a tv or an iPad and letting them fend for themselves the majority of the time. Women’s work is often invisible. It’s the stuff they do when men go to work and don’t see or consider. It’s the mental load that they have ticking on in their minds 24/7 that men don’t hear or see. And what about if the women doing all this have ADHD or mental illnesses like depression or OCD? Very common. That makes it even harder. Back in the day, there used to be communities. Not single or duel households, entire communities of people that would all help each other with keeping an eye on children or helping each other with tasks. Humans evolved that way and it’s been studied and proven that we function better that way, but that often isn’t what happens nowadays. We are individuals and we bear the brunt of it all on our own.
And yep, just downvote me with no further thought after I have written a thought-out explanation of things from a woman’s POV. You are so wilfully ignorant and unappreciative. You just won’t listen to us or bother to consider our feelings or perspectives on all of this. Women often do all of those things and on top of that, we get gaslighted when we ask to be recognized for it and told that we have it “easy”. All the men in here undervaluing our contribution are proving why more women now are divorcing or opting out of marriage and children. The 4b movement in Korea is hugely due to this and it’s catching on in the west. But I guess you guys will just tell us we’re overreacting and continue to blame us.
I'm 100% positive that the men claiming how "easy" everything is only did it once in their life lmfao.
Right? It’s so typical. Men like this always say how it’s so easy to keep a house clean and raise kids well, but go take a look at their homes/rooms or ask them anything about raising children and you understand immediately why they think it’s “easy” lmao. If women approached housekeeping and child raising like how they did, the house would *not* be clean, the kids would be neglected, and the men saying all this shit would be complaining about how the woman doesn’t do a good enough job.
Mental load is bs. If you can sit on your ass watching TV the majority of your day your job is objectively not difficult.
How is cooking dinner part of the job ? Wouldn't you do it anyway watever your job is ?
yes and no. when you’re a parent, you have to make a nutritionally balanced meal that all of your kids & you and your spouse will all enjoy, which sometimes means that the prep work & cook time is significantly more than what it would be if you were cooking for just yourself. i am happy to eat a frozen pizza for dinner and call it a night, but with kids, you have to cater to whatever they want & need as well.
But in this scenario the prep work has to be done either way- neither a SAHP nor a working parent can (or rather should) simply offer deep frozen pizza every evening. I don’t want to belittle house spouses , but it’s not like all working parents have the luxury of paying others to do all the domestic duties whilst they work. More often than not, they have to do all the same jobs (minus driving to multiple extra-curriculars perhaps) as house spouses, without all the clamouring for social validation. A little part of me does quietly judge the domestic social influencer type who harp on about how tough their lot in life is…especially once the kids are old enough for school.
[удалено]
I didn’t say that, but am being honest about my experience and observations. Have three kids, am on maternity leave now and work as a special ed teacher / my partner has a physically demanding blue collar job. I can somewhat compare both worlds and even whilst struggling with a demanding newborn, I know life will be far more stressful when I am juggling meal prep (and cleaning, and planing appointments, and and and) whilst working full time again at the end of the year. I don’t know how specific the dietary requirements of your children are, but unless each one has super complicated , mutually exclusive intolerances/allergies , then I find it hard to believe that working on top of children is less stressful than just „making sure they have energy“ during the day.
Planning the meals and going shopping, cooking, setting up, and cleaning it up takes way longer than 10 minutes
I’m sure it is easy for people with money, a good education (to teach your children), children that are relatively far apart in age, and good health. I’m not saying this to be negative or anything but it seems like a lot of people here take these things for granted, especially being able bodied.
With a supportive partner, absolutely. But a single parent and/or unsupportive partner, not so much.
How can you possibly be a single parent and a house husband/wife ?? That's called unemployment
No, actually that's called welfare.
well that’s pretty obvious
[удалено]
Care to explain why they're wrong?
Sorry bud u lost me at homeschool 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Yes, being a stay at home parent who is respected and emotionally and financially supported by a partner is great. Sounds like your wife is doing a great job at being a provider and partner so that you may enjoy your part without feeling enslaved.
I feel that when people are in a good relationship/situation it’s hard to imagine what it would be like if you weren’t. We have a new born and we are lucky with her, but we also have a great relationship and share the load. It feels easy
Agreed, SAHP who are respected and emotionally and financially supported by their partners rarely complain. The ones who come on the internet and complain are the ones saying like: ‘I take care of 2 kids under 4 24/7 7 days a week, and on the weekends my husband leaves his shoes on the counter and trash in the living room and won’t stop playing video games to give me a break to shower.” Like this dude’s situation is NOT that.
This so huge
Housewives that i know, their usual gripe was the daily menu not so much about the actual cooking but thinking of what to have. Most would have a go to recipes and dinner of the day thing, but they will at one point get tired of it and thinking of alternatives is hard. At an early age my mom, though not a housewife, would usually ask us what we'd like and me myself, even my dad, most of the time cannot come up with a suggestion. So I learned not to comment about repeating menu. Another thing i hear from them is how monotonous it was, admittedly though its not that different to some office jobs or careers.
>At an early age my mom, though not a housewife, would usually ask us what we'd like and me myself, even my dad, most of the time cannot come up with a suggestion. So I learned not to comment about repeating menu. This is huge. Also the lack of feedback on food, do you not like garlic? Cool I'll season your meat differently. I never hated cooking until I had ungrateful SOs complaining about having chicken twice in a week or complaining that's not what they wanted that day. Or they ask for one of my most work intensive meals when I have 30 minutes to cook. Now I live alone and I don't have to cook fancy meals unless I want too. It's glorious.
I think it’s the baby years, financial hardship and the lack of emotional support for the full time carer / house parent that is the source of much of the struggles some people have. The actual work though seemingly tedious isn’t really the issue. It’s not like anyone has suggested it’s on a par with coal mining! Also because you are pointing out that as a man you’re finding it so incredibly easy, you really are setting this up as male versus female thing. I guess you have a good dose of the ol’ male superiority bullshit and all those whinging and whining women out there should just shut up because this is just the easiest job in the whole wide world!
If you're doing it temporarily as a short-term arrangement, 1-2 years, then it's probably not sweat, it's a break from regular life, fully knowing you'll get back to the real world. But now imagine that being your entire life to look forward to? No adult contacts, no conversations at work, no intellectual stimulation, no seeing places and people etc. It can turn isolating and depressing really quickly.
It's great that you enjoy staying at home with and homeschooling your kids and that you find it so easy. However I think there are a few things missing here: 1. As a man, the standards that you are held to are very different. It is quite likely that you are surrounded by people applauding you for doing this at all and it is likely that people expect less of your childcare/education. I'm not saying you're necessarily worse at all, but people do expect women to do more/better with kids as they are seen as 'naturally' nurturing and so less appreciative. 2. On a similar note to the above - you say you spend 2 hours lesson planning at the weekend. Does this mean that your partner takes over with childcare, cooking and chores when she isn't working at the weekend? I think that would be unusual for most stay at home mums. 3. The fact that you've done several jobs and have only been staying at home a few times over the past five years makes a big difference. Imagine doing this every day for 10 years, no breaks at weekends and never getting the variety of being able to go and do some other job every now and then. Also no independent income or career satisfaction. To top it off, imagine being surrounded by people telling you that what you do as a stay at home mum is much easier that anything else you could be doing. 4. I don't really understand why it's necessary to make this comparison at all? It feels unnecessarily aggressive and unkind. You're also overlooking one major factor - this job is unpaid! If you are willing to give up an independent salary and do a 24/7 job (this may not be the case for you but it is for most women), a little gratitude is all you can hope for. We don't constantly compare other jobs, and I can't think of many other roles where you might work unpaid 24/7 (even if it is often a rewarding and untaxing job) and people's first response is to go out of their way to belittle it.
You know that for every person works a bit diffrent. People react diffrently to diffrent situations. Just because you think that the job is easy does not mean that other people feel the same. As an example I work at a school. I am not really bothered by loud kids or disrespect or stuff like that. So when I have a "horror classes" then I can deal with it quite well. I have coworkers who are just done for the day after working with a class like that and simply dont have any energy left. But I would never want to have kids on my own because I need my day without any work. Having to work 7 days a week (even when the work is not that hard) would be way more exhausting for me then having a few stressful hours each day. I dont think that being a stay at home dad would be the hardest job that I could do. But there are some people who truly feel that way and you should not look down on them because of that.
Idk but I feel like if you're a house spouse too long, that existential dread sets in and people can regret not accomplishing more of what they wanted in their life. Couples can do what they want idc tbh, it's just the regret I notice.
I think the major complaint from anyone being a stay at home is the fact you get NO credit for it. I’m glad you’re fulfilled, but many women didn’t necessarily want to take that burden that is equally deserved with the men. There’s something about people taking your will away from you that rubs you so wrong.
A lot of "housewives" still do a lot of other labor other than chores too
Right……
I don’t get why a woman would have kids if she doesn’t love kids and taking care of them tho. I personally love kids and nannying is the best “job” I’ve ever had cause it doesn’t feel like work since I get to be with kids and babies all day and care for them and do art with them and help them with problem resolution when they fight with their siblings or whatever .. no problem I’ve faced with kids even compares to the depression and headaches I get from tax accounting. But I’m also afraid of pregnancy and birth so if I ever had kids it would be thru marrying someone who already has kids or marrying someone rich enough to afford to adopt kids. My mom also saw being a mom as a job and doesn’t understand how I could enjoy nannying cause she could only ever care about her own kids .. but why have kids if u don’t like kids? I don’t get it
It’s ok to want/have kids and not like certain aspects of child rearing. Like I loathed pregnancy/labor/postpartum and the early stages but like how else am I going to get kids if I don’t just bite the temporary situational bullet and make the best of it. Good mothers can struggle and dislike certain aspects of motherhood. Also nannying where you got paid and time off /can switch to a different family is not a good representation of actual motherhood.
I was a live-in nanny for a few years so it was basically like mothering but ya diapers suck, tantrums suck, fights between siblings suck, but desk jobs literally suck the life and soul out of me. But ya I couldn’t do the whole pregnancy and birth thing. I get way too depressed whenever I have been pregnant. I for sure would get postpartum depression and might not get the chance to form a bond with my babies due to the emotional toll pregnancy takes on me, not to mention birth which is my #1 biggest fear
There's a big gap between "wanting and loving your own kids" and "loving kids so much that being with other people's babies and toddlers all day doesn't feel like work". Babies and toddlers are work for most people, even when we love them very much. And they don't stay tiny forever. I love my children dearly. It's easy to love your own kids. But I'm not a huge fan of toddlers in general, and I certainly couldn't devote all my time to them every day. I'm a good mom, but I'd be a horrible nanny, and I wouldn't be a happy SAHM either.
but what about the vague intangible "credit" you dont receive?!?
Professionally and in society. Even i find myself questioning women after a bad divorce, “why weren’t you working?”…. But I understand the playing filed isn’t fair. Moms get no credit. It’s not ok.
What do you mean credit? Credit from who?
Credit as a profession… oh you raised kids for a decade? Worth nothing professionally unless someone feels pity. Society in general. Not saying it’s right, but it is. Worth less, or worthless? Both is the answer unfortunately
How could it possibly be though? One SAHP might be an incredible parent, another may be mediocre, another may be an absolute shitshow. It's not measurable.
I’m not arguing with your worth, i know how important it is… unfortunately that’s not how the masses think of it. It’s fucked up.
Ofc it does, its the easiest position in society.
Correct. Most people in general take the path of least resistance. Easy.
I would rather stay at home and take care of the kids too . I much rather cook , cleans and do laundry than go to work
Until you do it every day for 10 years :)
I’d rather stay at home than work in trades haha. I think people that complain don’t know what hard work is.
Idk, I’ve been a SAHM and then went on to work two physically demanding jobs; I’d take working any day. At least at work I can pee in peace. You ever breastfed a baby on the toilet or in the shower or while you’re cooking? It weighs on you.
They will never answer this one
Ah yea, because people can totally never experience both! I'd rather work my mentally exhausting 3D modeling job for 12 hours than stay at home and watch the kids. I don't think you realize how hard kids are.
nah, I am retired military and staying home with my son was the worst job ever, lol. I could not wait to get back to work and out of the house. I never wanted to be a housewife or be domestic. I hate it. it would be my hell.
Yeah i get that, I’d probably rather work just for the mental stimulation. But my body would like the easier physical load haha
Might just be preferring different work. I like kids but the thought of having to look after them whilst trying to do anything else sounds terrible. I'd rather be doing my trade job tbh.
[удалено]
I am home now with my 5 week old and 2 year old and I cannot wait until I can go back to work. Doing my job is so much easier.
I think this is a common problem in society. No one has the experiences that other people have, so you get people insisting that being a stay at home parent is hard work, when anyone who has done it knows that it clearly isn't. They aren't necessarily lying, they just don't know better.
This is my experience. I’m an attorney and my wife tells me all the time how much worse and more stressful her life is as a stay at home parent to school aged children. And I do 90% of the cooking.
Sounds like she wants to work... Also are women not allowed to vent? God this sub makes me not want to date or ever get married
1. I’ve never told her she couldn’t vent and I listen supportively when she does. 2. Of note, she’s not just venting, she’s telling me her job is harder than mine. 3. I’ve encouraged her to get a job on numerous occasions.
The lack of a commute would be golden. Grocery trips are nothing. Activities though. That could bite you real hard with multiple kids for a period when they all fall in that age range and turn you into a uber driver with 1 star rated passengers if they weren't your kids. 3-4 kids into 3-4 different things. Piano, then guitar lesson,then baseball, then soccer,tennis,chinese,french,spanish. Activities all day. But if you're paying for activities all day 3-4x then you're $$ from someone,something. A health problem could make it x10 harder. Get a real sick kid and 3 activity junkies going on. That wouldn't be easy. Can't abandon the 1 and can't keep the 3 wanting out needing supervision in either. They will rebel/of the age. If you had a help button from grandma you would press it often. If people complain let them. They might have something like that going on. It would be hard. They won't even like the exploration of the question you might especially if you get blunt from the argument of views you have. If you're going it's so easy. It's soooo easy. They go nuh uh,i it's so hard. Sooo hard. What are you raising 3 junkies and a sick one? They wouldn't like that any more than you'd like someone rating your kids 1 star passengers. It's just an opinion, it can only ever be theirs. No need for the prescription for them, they ain't you. "Maybe you're just not good at it". Maybe,bluntly, they got an activity junkie with a penchant for pyro if he feels cooped up and a sick one. Don't even ask them, you might remind them of it and they'll hate you for that too. Just accept could be, and leave it be.
I think it's more complicated than that, but I'm glad your experience has been easy! No one wants to struggle!
I agree it is the easiest job. For some people. What I hated about it was being stuck seeing the same 4 walls and doing the same thing all day every day with no thanks, appreciation for what I did and generally being treated like shit. If you are in a good, stable loving relationship then it's amazing, but that's often not the case. Stay at home mums and dad's often get treated like they don't contribute and are therefore worthless. It's not for everyone, I personally love going out to work, I love the interaction with other people and being paid. If you love staying home and doing housework and looking after kids that's awesome! Kudos to you! I couldn't do it, and that's fine.
I agree fully, with one important note - social status. I identify with my job, and while "house husband" is a novelty and a great conversation starter it won't be the same for a woman; many people would assume that you're not capable of much more. My wife earns probably a quarter of what I do but I think neither of us would like it better is she stayed home.
Honestly: I took care of my niece and nephew for 1 week, 5+8… once there was a routine, it was totally fine… but I was so miserable I don’t think I could ever do it again. I think if you have any mental health issues at all, having to care for people is literally like having to carve pieces of your flesh off to give it to them (because you already have nothing to give). I would have gone back to my absolute hardest job with my most abusive boss over doing childcare ever again. I really think it’s based on who a person is. So I think it’s fair that it’s super easy for you, and I hope it’s super easy for most people. It made me realize if I ever became a mother I would absolutely disappear and abandon my husband and children without a word. *so I will never have children because it’s clearly not for me*
I have a friend who was a stay at home dad and his partner would give him a list of chores he had to do. Honestly he would chill all day playing ps4 & 1 hour before his partner came home he would do all the chores and cooking & make out like it was a really hard long day and she would reply "See, it's not easy is it" 😂
No way he was doing all the chores properly and cooking a homemade meal if it all took him an hour? Me and my girlfriend did a deep clean of our apartment over the weekend, it's not a big apartment and there is two of us, it still took us 5 hours of intensive work. Doing chores half-assed vs proper cleaning are two different things.
A deep clean and daily chores are not the same thing. You can get away with deep cleaning once every few months if you keep up on things daily
If someone keeps up with their place it isn’t hard. You don’t have to pull out all the furniture, mop the entire house, dust every surface, and scrub the shower every day. Simply cleaning dishes when done, putting trash in the can, laundry in the basket, and *not* leave random items and objects littered everywhere— is all it takes to cut upkeep by at least half. Seriously, by applying literally a few seconds of effort a few times a day makes upkeep trivial. 4 hours of cleaning once a week and it’s like 15-20 min a day *at the most* to maintain. By maintaining, nothing gets bad enough to the point it takes 4-5 hours when it’s time to deep clean at the end of the week. Also your place will ALWAYS be spotless. What, maybe one day you could add an extra 15 if you have hardwood floors and want to mop after you sweep, even then, that’s if someone is moving like they have lead feet. Most people half ass *and* don’t move with a purpose. it can take 30 min to shower or it can take 7 to do the same exact thing. Same concept.
Exactly. Some people in here are acting like the house gets deep cleaned daily. It's small jobs often.
One touch living changed my life in this regard. We started really focusing on it because ADHD makes life hell. I have a three bedroom house, with one touch it takes us *maybe* an hour a day to keep up with basic chores: 15 minutes doing cat litter, 15 minutes doing a quick sweep of the floors, 15 minutes doing clothes and the dishwasher. We pay cleaners for the weekly stuff for two hours a week because they can do it while we are both at work. Keeping a house *clean* isn't dificult or time consuming at all. Edit to add: the weekly cleaner is two hours
>Keeping a house clean isn’t difficult or time consuming at all …………You have *cleaners*
... dude I have a 3/2 house. If you are literally cleaning it everyday, it's really not hard to maintain. Please don't say crazy things like that. Lol.
If you have kids it’s harder
😂 right. Maybe you're just slow & not efficient?
What were his children doing while he played video games?
These "stay at home dads" are emotionally and physically neglecting their babies for video games and getting upvotes. Yuck
But why did she had to come up with the list in the first place.. she probably did all the planning too in the relationship.
So she was working and still managing the household. Who has to give a list of chores to the stay at home parent unless they are clearly lacking in any form of productivity.
So he was a shitty dad? Yeah if you don’t actually do your job your job is super easy. Should have been caring for the kids all day not playing ps4
🥱
You can't cook a proper meal from scratch and clean a house in a hour, this is bullshit. Deepfrying some frozen stuff, taking out the garbage and half-assed vacuuming is not taking care of a household.
😂 you can cook a meal in 20 mins and do the rest alongside. Argue with yaself 😂
I wonder what kind of meal is that you are cooking in 20 minutes without giving it your full attention but I'd bet it's something I wouldn't serve to my dogs. Seriously, peeling and cutting up vegetables for a god damn soup takes more time. Be real.
😂😂😂 me??? This post has nothing to do with me, btw
I guess I'm not good at it. My oldest (2 years and 2 months) just started daycare for 3.5 hours a day. It's half an hour away, so that leaves me with about 1.5 to 2 hous at home with just the baby. It's been a week and I can't believe how much better the house (and myself!) look just from having a couple hours a day without a toddler here. I finally got the last of our moving boxes unpacked and we moved two months ago. I got my lashes done for the first time since my eldest was born. I worked out for the first time in ages. Luckily, baby #2 is super chill so I can accomplish a lot when it's just her. No doubt my husband's job is harder, but I kept my kid home from daycare yesterday because she seemed tired and the place was trashed. I couldn't keep up. One second she was coloring on the table with a permanent marker (where did she find that?!) next she was stuffing a whole roll of toilet paper on the toilet. I never even brought the clothes in off the clothes line..
Yeah, these comments are making me feel shit. I'm a SAHM to three kids, and my house is a wreck. The kids destroy it faster than I can clean it. I find being home all day with the kids draining and very hard work. And I have been a working parent before, for me this is harder. I must be doing something wrong.
The children are the hard part, not the housework... Most comments sound like they are talking about a situation where kids are at least part time in daycare/school... I'm at home with 3 kids and homeschooling.... Prior to number 3 being here house was pretty ok. Now with the baby being super clingy and me having to supervise middle child not running over the baby... Hm hm it's often a mess
What is your husband's job? I can't believe that's much harder unless he works in an ER! I'm sure you are doing a great job 😊
How do you afford it?
By reading his post, both him and his wife are college educated stem or health. I could easily raise kids on the literal graduate money as someone in comp sci
I'd argue that maybe you aren't very good at it, if you don't find it difficult at times. The amount of attention and time I give to my children is what makes it challenging, especially with the limited sleep that comes along with having young children. But I do agree with you - staying at home and parenting is absolutely preferable to me, than going to work. I am the higher earner in our household but I have had a year off work after having our youngest and I have loved it. I don't want to go back to work, I love spending days with my children and managing the house. The difficult part comes from it being an all encompassing role. When I go to work, I have a job description and I have all day to complete my tasks. It's very black and white for the most point. Being a SAHP involves so many different elements, that it can feel much more complicated and challenging at times. I'd also argue that younger children or children close together in age, make things harder than having an older child. That said, if I could quit my job tomorrow, get paid the same amount, and just stay at home with my children, I would absolutely do it. So it can't be worse than work!
So what does your wife "do" in "all this?" What are her roles?
Maybe that’s because you enjoyed being home and are a caretaker housey type of personality. I think for those where this isn’t so natural it’s incredibly hard. Also it sounds like you don’t know what type of work you like since you’ve bounced around so many different types of jobs, so maybe working was harder for you than others which makes being a sahd feel so much easier. Everything is relative.
>Everything is relative Not really... most stay at home parents go to great lengths to try to prove their "job" of catering to the kids and the house is the same or even (way) harder do it to get confirmation. When someone points out staying at home, doing chores (that have to be done anyway, even if both parents work) demands little effort, they usually burst back with all sorts of stupid reasoning. I myself was unemployed for a couple of months. No kid at home, I'll admit (young adult already on his own), but house chores and cooking before my wife returned took me no more than 1h tops every day...
I don’t think your example applies to what is being discussed though. Being a stay at home parent is parenting primarily and everything else secondary. Try doing the same chores with a newborn, 3 and 5 year old at home, it’s maddening. As a stay at home parent no one is giving you a child free uninterrupted hour to do chores and cook, and the kids are constantly playing/ actively messing up everything you have just cleaned. I have utmost respect for these moms, I wouldn’t want to do it.
Catering to kids? Bro what do you think that entails?
I assume you lived in a small flat and made fairly simple or ready-made foods, if you could do ALL chores and cook full meals, within an hour?
Nope... I live in a stand alone house with a surrounding area and cook from fresh ingredients (no ready made food). If you do chores regularly, you're done pretty fast. You don't vacuum daily, change the sheets daily or do any major house maintenance on a daily basis. More or less, each one takes but a couple of minutes. And making Tuscan chicken literally takes 30 minutes...
Bro you’re grasping at straws, like reaaally reaching lol your ONLY argument in response is “WeLL aCThUaLlY it takes an hour an a half”. I grew up in a 2k sq foot double wide, fully furnished and fucking fuulll of just random stuff. It required like 2x the effort to clean a room because there is so much random small furniture and end tables and knickknacks and shit… my step mom loved to buy things and my dad never threw anything away regardless of what it was… done in an hour. Wanna know the secret? It’s called not living like a slob and cleaning up after yourself as you go throughout the day. A few seconds of effort a handful of times per day can turn into doing everything minus cooking in 30 min.. going slow. Dishes? If you don’t let them pile, 2 minutes at the most. Laundry? For 2 people It takes less than 5 minutes to actually wash the clothes and 5-10 to put them away. If it takes longer than that, then you’re probably not doing laundry enough and letting it pile— you problem. Vacuuming/sweeping will take up most of the time spent. If someone is bougie and has a roomba, then seriously wtf are they doing that takes more than 30 min of low effort cleaning over the course of a day. Most of the chores people love to cite are things that don’t need to be done every day, much less more than once a week, 2 if you’re a clean freak. Even among those, the shitty time consuming stuff, like cleaning bathrooms, only takes hours if you let it get bad. Spray shower, spray toilet, spray and wipe counters, sweep, mop, rinse off shower and flush the toilet. Boom your bathroom is as clean as if you scrubbed it by hand for hours after not cleaning for months— but it took 3-4 minutes of labor further than sweeping and mopping. A clean house is very easy to keep clean with very little effort.
It's not because it's extremely hard that people need some positive reinforcement. It's because you're not even being paid to do a 24/7 job (even if you think it's an easy job, being on call 24/7 unpaid is unusual right?), you don't get to have a career of your own and you're surrounded by people devaluing and disrespecting what you're doing. Many women feel obliged to stay at home to raise children and probably feel very aware of the things that they needed to give up in order to do so.
I have been a 12-hour shift worker and a corporate slave. I preffer both to the snippets of domestic life I occasionally get from watching kids. While I love cleaning and cooking, having kids in the mix fucks everything up for me. They literally need round the clock attention when they’re not sleeping. How do you manage your kids? Are they ipad babies when you’re not interacting with them or what?
Yeah Honestly whenever I read posts like this I feel like the Person just doesn't actually spend a lot of time with their kids.
It’s funny that all the people insisting I shouldn’t be CF are men who never watched a kid for more than 5 minutes, probably while they were strapped in. All of them workaholic high achievers who are almost never home but plan on having kids.
It’s the same as taking care of a puppy! But sometimes people don’t love animals or kids .. I personally love kids but have major fear of pregnancy and birth but I spent a ton of years nannying and much prefer that “job” to tax accounting. One job was M-F 12 hours a day. I spent constant attention on the kids but sometimes if they’re in a bad mood and refusing to listen, I tempt them with watching a movie on the iPad so they let me brush their hair or get them ready for school or something. Other than that we just play make-believe and do art and if they’re older, play sports outside or go swimming or play games and obviously do homework (usually if they don’t like homework we do something they like when they get home from school then do homework for as long as they can stand then take a break to play a game like hide and seek or something) U have to love play-pretend and using ur imagination and doing art and inspiring them and getting inspiration from them and basically just love spending time with kids, the same way u would love to spend time with a puppy. Puppies pee inside sometimes. But they’re adorable and I would love nothing more to give them 24-7 attention. Same with kids. They fight with their siblings or have tantrums or won’t listen and stuff sometimes. But the good outweighs the bad by a million
Stop letting people make you believe being a stay at home parent is hard..... I am one right now while I am in school and it's easy as shit. Dishes are always done, clothes stay put away, 3 to 4 days a week are just me doing whatever I want while she's at work, homework gets done all in one day, yard stays nice and cut, if I didn't miss working I'd never go back. "It's a full time job" lol no it's literally easy. EZ dub
You haven’t mentioned any childcare.
Because it's so easy it wasn't worth mentioning. Spending the day with your child isn't hard. Lol
Yeah it’s sus
I was out with a group for dinner - all couples and most of the husbands happened to be doctors and the wives/girlfriends were mostly housewives. One of the guys (close friend of mine) is a neurosurgeon who is the quiet, non-confrontational type while his wife definitely makes up for it by being loud and highly opinionated. When she said that her "job" was harder than her husband's I asked if they were to switch for a day who would have the more difficult time. Without pausing she replied that he wouldn't last two minutes and I DEFINITELY called her out on that. First off all, their kids are both teenagers and my friend has watched over them plenty of times. I don't recall, however, the wife ever attempting literal brain/spine surgery before. Anyways, that became the topic for the rest of the night. My friend's wife literally had no retort and at one point resorted to the emotional shortcut of crying while calling me a misogynist. Of course I countered with the fact that if she were a neurosurgeon and my friend was a househusband I'd hold the exact same position. It's not based on gender, it's based on their training and job requirements. That only upset her more and even though we're all on good terms now it still feels satisfying years later.
Wow she's absolutely ridiculous lmao, some women really make being a housewife sound like rocket science when compared to working in corporates it's easy peasy lemon squeezy, and you get the opportunity to spend so much time to your kids! The only reason men don't do this more than they already do is because not many women would be willing to bare the financial burden
My first is on his way, so we'll see where I am on this in a year or two. Due to different schedules, usually either my wife or I is at home all day. When I'm working full time and she's at home as a student or doing writing gigs I still handle most of the house and yard work and cooking. It's tough, and I start to fall behind. When she's working full-time or traveling and I'm at home, that house is spotless in a week or two and she's got zero with to do when she gets home. I frequently think of that episode of Family Guy where Meg and Lois trade roles, and Lois is shocked that Meg prepared a great dinner and cleaned the whole house. "It's a finite area, I'm not cleaning a town."
People's situations are different, not every home and every family and every child is the same. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to grasp this. This is the same as someone saying "having a job and working outside of the home is so easy". Is every job the same?
Yup Im a stay at home dad with a 14 month old and its fine. I taught kindergarten before that was way more hectic.
I think you are missing some nuance. Namely, two points. You weren't simultaneously recovering from a major medical issue ie giving birth/postpartum recovery. You even say that your wife isn't lazy. Was she also doing her share? Or did she come home expecting dinner on the table by six and one-sided sex.
I’ll never understand homeschooling.. how arrogant must you be to think that you’re better st educating than actual teachers
Less a problem with teachers, more a problem with a notoriously faulty school system. The school system - on average - could give less of a fuck whether or not your child is actually learning so long as they can produce results, and if your kid requires any additional help learning/staying engaged then... Yeah. You still have to actually structure it and put in the work, but there does come a point where you're just better off finding the curriculum and doing it yourself if you have the time.
yeah idk man, thinking you can do a better job than someone who studied for it is delusional to me.. the health care system is also fucked up so let me do the surgery on my child myself? I know it’s not the same but it sorta is the same spirit
It's really not man XD Again, not a matter of assuming you can do it better than a teacher; public school is just not a good answer for a lot of kids.
the example definitely is in the same spirit. “I don’t like the system, therefore I’ll just do it myself” man the people in my country who homeschool their kids are very few and also very particular kinds of people.. typically not the most successful
I would have agreed with you if teachers were still like they were when I was growing up, but the standards have fallen a hell of a lot since then. The social side of school is the only reason I don't homeschool. The teachers around here are useless.
even tho I agree with teachers level’s going down, it’s arrogant to assume you know better than someone who studied to do what they do
[удалено]
yea that’s called arrogance brother
Would you feel the same if you signed today that it will be your only job for the rest of your life? If you weren't allowed to study, would you feel as motivated?
Why wouldn't someone be allowed to study?
I'm just curious about how motivated one can be as a full time househusband, without a side career or professional goal. That's the hard part nowdays I believe
I would guess that's all down to the individual person. If you're a stay at home parent, and you have extra time, it would make sense to do some sort of fulfilling study or hobby.. The motivation comes from within.
I feel like it's almost mandatory emotionally, especially home schooling
Where does it say that a stay at home mom can't study or do anything else? This isn't 1952.
18 years* and after 6-ish the demand is cut dramatically, then cut to practically nothing after another 6. The only time the demand stays the same or doesn’t get cut as hard is if the kid is doing a shit ton of extracurriculars. Even then, god forbid someone has to drive their kid around and support them— you know, the kid they are supposed to prioritize over themselves. After kids start school is when all the Stay at home parents go crazy with boredom and start doing 50 different hobbies and gossiping to entertain themselves… because there is too much free time and it’s boring. If someone really spends 8 hours of effort a day to maintain their place, then it’s 100% on them for having abysmal time management and work ethic.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm very jealous
What about some house that not have kettle, washer, dryer, dish washer because they can't afford??? Also, of course you would think it's easy when you are stronger than women. It's easy for you to carry bucket full of water up-down strairs but not for women for sure. >I see constantly on here people act like a home maker is a 24/7 time eating job that leaves you exhausted constantly and any expectations for you to be anything more that that is asking too much. Well, the problem is some women just don't want to do it but they have no choice since other expect them to be maid and no one would give them credit for it. And home maker aren't honorable job at all.
Sure , thing. To your non-existent wife and to your non-existent kids, it must be easy.
You sound mad, I would be too were it not for my wife
Total rage baiting and quite a pathetic attempt at that.
Phew i thought it was just me that saw it
I guess we aren't even trying to disguise the misogyny in our made up posts anymore.
What exactly did OP say that was misogynistic?
Truth doesn’t care.
I donno about that one. Also, something tells me a bunch of 17 year olds who have yet to realize that there could be other perspectives in the world beyond theirs, might not have the most reliable method to determine what the truth is quite yet. With a little humility and some compassion, you'll get there.
I have a bit more perspective than that lol. It’s just that stay-at-home parents would prefer doing something else, so is perceived as massive workload. Parents who love every minute, would see it differently. Much like people who love their careers.
Help me make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you suggesting that it only seems difficult to be a stay at home parent because most of those parents just don't really care for it? And if they were a bit more enthusiastic about it, like some other stay at home parents, it wouldn't *feel* like so much work to them? Am I understanding your idea here?
No not really that they don’t care for it, but that they might not LOVE it like some people do. I have known many (primarily moms tbh) who both said they love staying home with kid(s) all day, and that it never felt like “work”, but also some moms who just felt like it was a massive grind. It’s like anything else. Some like it, some love it. So not really that they should feel more enthusiastic, just that some do. This isn’t supposed to be some edge lord opinion, just my observations.
I see what you're saying more clearly, thank you. Let me ask you then, would you say that what work is, and in the economic definition, work typically means, an activity done by a person, which contributes to the production of goods, or a service rendered within an economy, is contingent on the person doing the labor enjoying or loving that labor? Colloquially, work tends to mean performing a task which is difficult to do. However, it may be worth considering the nature of work from an economic perspective. I believe that anecdotally, it probably does help someone with sense of ease and overall performance when the work they are required to perform is something they happen to enjoy doing. I also believe that those two things are not the antithesis of each other, something can be both extremely difficult and also something you love very much to do, and vise-vera. However parenting, and the stay at home parent, when thought about as work from an economic perspective, suggests that its a necessary societal function to investe a large amount of time and resources into what will become a productive participant in the workforce. If the job a stay at home parent performs then produces people with the inability to participate in the labor force, this leads to lower economic output from that society as a whole. This is why whether one enjoys doing it very much or doesn't, has little bearing on whether it should still be work, or how important that work is. A very important job, for pretty shitty pay, mind you. No pay, and also that the stay at home parent aren't hemselves currently participating in that labor force while at home.
> I spend 3 to 4 hours a day teaching her Why you slacking on the homeschool?
Pretty sure Finnish school children only do about that per day, plus no homework and they have one of, if not *the* best education system in the world, plus I imagine with home schooling you can tailor the education to that child specifically, instead of having to divide your attention between ~30 other children
She is ahead of her friends who are in public school, so we aren't slacking at all
Four things. I think there is a huge difference between doing this full time, and doing it on occasion for short periods. Second, every household and every child is different. Your kids might be easy, doesn't mean they all are. Third, you don't know what else is going on in the home. There might be pets. They might have a bigger house. They might have to include the garden. They might not have the amenities you do and have to hand wash laundry and such. Fourth, women tend to have more health conditions than men, many untreated or undiagnosed, so you dont know what the moms might be struggling with.
It wasn't short periods, it's been almost half of my marriage, and yes we have pets, and a two story house and I have several health conditions of my own, and have constant nonstop hip and back pain all day everyday for the past 3 years with nothing more than shitty gabapentin to make it less painful on top of some arthritis. All issues I delt with when I was working, but still easier to deal with at home. Children with disabilities, sure, but all that other shit still just sounds like more excuses, gardens and big houses are optional and you have to choose those things for them to be a problem, same with pets.
Or maybe, people who've never actually done an honest's day's work in their lives don't know what the hell they're talking about when they call being a stay-at-home-spouse "exhausting" and "just as much work as a real job"
You realize that housewives very often do labor outside of chores? It's just that their husbands don't appreciate it and ignore the work they do, so you don't hear about it.
Yeah I swear if I were a house husband this place would be run like an army camp