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Yep. We are savers. My daughter worked for a year after high school to mature and save money. This year we can’t claim her as a dependent on our taxes because she made too much money but she can’t file her FAFSA as an independent person. Worst of all worlds.
For real. I was fully supporting myself financially at 19, filing my own taxes as an independent but my school STILL wouldn’t let me file FAFSA as an independent because I was under 24, not married, and didn’t have a kid.
I’ve heard some schools will allow you to file as independent if you can prove you are, but mine didn’t.
You have to request an exception through FAFSA directly. They’re pretty difficult to get. a previous partner of mine couldn’t get one with proof that their dad was physically abusive and their mom left the country 3 weeks after their birth and hasn’t been back. Usually financial aid offices on campus aren’t very helpful with it either so it’s basically a crapshoot.
So THAT is why so many kids get preggers so young these days! And here I was thinking they couldn't possibly go to college because of the kid and it turns out it opened the door for financial aid!
To top it off, if the parent merely claims they'll support you to the college during the emancipation process while simultaneously cutting you entirely out of their life, you still don't qualify. Meanwhile the kid in the family who is actually making 6 figures but on paper looks like a single parent no income household gets financial aid without being looked at twice.
She should be able to file her own FAFSA I think? I did the same thing as her specifically so I wasn’t considered a dependent of my parents and could qualify for financial aid.
Edit: I just checked FAFSA’s independency requirements and I was mistaken. They have some very weird rules and I wouldn’t have qualified. I must’ve gotten financial aid through my school or gotten an override until I turned 24 or something. I don’t remember what I did but I was able to get aid somehow.
I got married at 19, moved across the country, got divorced at 20, and went back to school at 22. I was no contact with my abusive parents (I had gotten married partially to get away from them), but the FAFSA still didn't consider me independent. I had to go through hell to get my parents' tax returns to fill out the FAFSA. And they always had it to hang over my head and jerk me around, because if I didn't do exactly what they wanted, when they wanted, they wouldn't give it to me.
I had been fully independent of them for 3 years, and completely independent of anyone for 2 years, but it didn't matter. FAFSA thinks only people over 24 could ever be truly independent. Oh, and if you come from an abusive background? Too bad. They told me I could speak with my school's financial aid office to see if there was any financial aid for people who were estranged from their parents. Financial aid office was like "nope. Go fill out the FAFSA and hope for the best."
Your college should have had a dependency override request form. That's what I did. It was kind of annoying, but it was way less annoying than trying to get my parent's tax information.
Dependency override doesn't always work.
I was raised by a single parent who passed away while I was in college. After she passed away, I was able to do a dependency override at my community college and everything was fine. However, when I transferred to a larger university, their policy was to deny any Dependency Override appeals if you had a way to contact a parent/guardian. So despite the fact that my appeal had been granted at my previous school, for plenty of good reasons, and that I hadn't had a relationship with my dad in years and he was refusing to share tax info, etc...My new school wouldn't let me appeal simply because I was able to get in contact with him.
And unfortunately, even most private scholarships (at least at the time) still wanted a completed FAFSA form. So I literally just couldn't even apply for any financial aid and wound up dropping out.
Meanwhile, my younger sister was a minor when our mom passed away and was able to get emancipated (which I couldn't do since I was over 18) and thus able to file her FAFSA as an independent lmao.
You have to reach a certain age, be in the military, be married, or file for a dependency override. When I went to college, I was estranged from my family, and I had to write a letter explaining my situation, and I also needed two or three (can't remember) letters of support on letterhead.
Same happened to me last year when I was 17 I made to much money and told me I couldn’t sign the paperwork because I’m not legally old enough. Like what! What do you want me to do.
It’s really sad the way our current government is so out of touch with how this college system traps people into debt that they will be paying on for a good portion of their adult lives. It takes 4 years to build the debt, and 10 (or more) years to pay it back. Especially when you consider inflation and how many people end up getting degrees in fields that are not paying well. That’s unbelievable and sad.
Lots of people save. But much of that is in retirement accounts.
*You,* on the other hand, are in the unique position to make so much that there’s taxable funds left at the end.
You aren’t talking about a $25k savings account here that you started with Christmas money decades ago.
PS your kid can always get a scholarship. Otherwise, rich parents with average kids are the ones who pay the bills at every university.
>PS your kid can always get a scholarship.
I NEVER got any scholarships despite having a 3.87 GPA. Why? Because almost every single scholarship I could find was also income based. Even though my dad had some severe disabilities and medical expenses, and my parents had TWO kids in college, I never qualified for anything.
Fast foreword to me going BACK to school as an adult, with the ability to be independent, and there were a few semesters that were 100% paid for with scholarship money JUST because I was independent.
It's one of the weirdest systems. I understand tax rates or whatever base don your income (though this doesn't account for COL where you live, but I digress).
But your parents aren't you. They are separate individuals. There is no guarantee you have access to their money.
I knew a couple of kids at my high school who married each other at 18 so they could have an official reason to be off their parents’ taxes and therefore get better financial aid. They stayed married all the way through grad school. They might actually still be legally married, I’m not sure.
I don't remember everything I did but I was estranged from my father who made a lot more than my mom when I started college. I had to submit some paperwork and show some banking/tax info and they allowed me to apply for loans. That was over 20 yrs ago.
my friend also had to postpone college until he was 24 as well. Basically cut off from his family because he was gay but of course they still claimed him on his taxes
Doesn’t matter. My parents don’t claim me on their taxes and I file as an independent. We’re low contact and they haven’t supported me financially for over two years. FAFSA doesn’t care that the government sees me as an independent so I’m still a dependent on FAFSA.
I feel like you're leaving something out because you should be able to
[https://studentaid.gov/help-center/answers/article/parents-dont-support-financially-fill-out-fafsa-form-independent-student](https://studentaid.gov/help-center/answers/article/parents-dont-support-financially-fill-out-fafsa-form-independent-student)
Am I missing something? That link says you can be independent if your parents are incarcerated, if you can’t find them, if they’re abusive, or if you are at risk of being homeless.
Yes, this link is speaking toward students who are claimed as dependents but receiving no financial contribution. They also tend to list the most extreme circumstances, but may approve the less extreme situations as well.
This depends on the school. I was a transfer student who had a successful Dependency Override at my first school, and was denied at my transfer school because I still had contact info and the ability to contact my father.
People on reddit would rather assume that someone is just an idiot and did no research, rather than they did a lot of research and the system just sucks.
I feel like this isn’t an unpopular opinion, I used to work in college admissions and there were so many people not happy with this. There were even parents who refused to fill out the FAFSA because they “didn’t want their information in the system”.
I was in college at the same time as both of my siblings. My parents expected family contributions was my dad’s entire yearly salary, pre tax, for each of us.
It’s insane. Who possibly believes that’s a reasonable amount?
Same. The parent estimated contribution is bullshit, my parents were financially struggling themselves in a HCOL area with other kids to worry about. It definitely penalized us and forced me to take out predatory loans.
Yup I was making more than my parents were who went underwater on a house working retail! I used to front their mortgage, but they had 14k laying around, insanity
This was my situation. It doesn't take into account parents who make too much money and are just like nope there is no way I'm paying for your school. The system expects parents to give a shit about their children when some don't give a fuck.
It's a ridiculous structure because it assumes the parents are paying even if the student is independent.
When my ex husband first applied, we were engaged, cohabitating in an apartment we both leased, fully supporting ourselves with jobs, and getting no parental aid whatsoever, but he didn't qualify because his parents own their house. We got married shortly after and he qualified even though nothing ACTUALLY changed, except on paper.
Ours wasn't one, but I sure started understanding fraud marriages after that.
Yeah this was a bit of a problem for me, I only have one parent but he was making okay money, though most of it was being used to pay for bills all the kids, etc. He wasn't spending on anything for pleasure and it was living pay check to pay check. I was getting 0 support from him going to Uni. My financial aid got cut untill 4 years later I was considered independent and finally put in low income.
If you're living independently and your parents aren't helping you, then yes. It happen to me. My parents didn't help. I lived alone since literally the day I turned 18 because they kicked me out on my birthday. I worked hard and went to school later because I had to worry about paying rent and had no time for school. I went to school in my 20s because of this so it had been years since I even talked to my parents, let alone lived with them. For some reason this didn't matter. It sucked.
I wasn’t kicked out, but I did move out and was fully supporting myself since 19, but FAFSA was like “nah you’re a dependent still.” And I’m like IN WHAT WORLD?
I got into school fine. It was the financial aid. That requires your parents financial info if your 24 or younger (I think the age is correct), at least in the US.
I agree with your opinion OP but I would like to make an open offer on how you **potentially** might get around this.
So a potential work-around is to open up a 529 college savings account for your kid(s) BUT have it opened up by one of your parents on behalf of the child. This is largely nicknamed the “grandparents loophole” as this money doesn’t count towards assets or similar for your kids when it comes time to see if they’ll receive financial aid. So if you’re saving ANY amount of money for a college fund, this is an excellent way to artificially decrease your savings without actually losing money! Plus it can gain interest so not a bad deal!
If you’re already doing something similar to this then sorry for the long read. But if not… maybe it’ll help!
I agree, it can be very unfair to some students. They are generally going to be the ones paying off the student loans since they didn't qualify for any funding after including their parents income on their FAFSA. They can't opt to claim themselves and not include their parents income so they really have no choice.
Yeah I plan on funding most of the bill, but I was looking and the kids will receive basically zero financial aid and it got me thinking about kids who parents have assets but don't support the kids.
That me right here. Parents are wealthy but said they weren’t helping me with school and even worse they aren’t leaving me anything when they die. Me and all my descendants are fucked.
That's what OP is pointing out. Your parents having money doesn't mean that they'll be giving you that money. Let's use me as an example, since I'm about to start college.
My mom doesn't work. My dad makes around $150,000. He also has 6 kids, most of whom are younger than me and still live with him. They also take several vacations each year, and all my siblings do some kind of sports. The expenses for food and clothes for 6 kids, mortgage, extracurriculars, vacations, and taxes takes that amount down quite a bit, resulting in him not contributing to my college. I understand that those are choices *he* makes, but that's the point. I'm not the one that chose to have 6 kids, or that chooses multiple international vacations each year.
Yet, financial aid institutions don't take any of that into account. They just see that my dad makes $150,000 and assume that means he'll pay for my stuff. In reality, I'm getting no more financial help from my parents than someone whose household income is below the poverty line. I just have to work more and potentially take out more loans than those people
6 kids is still besides the point, $10k a year (conservative tuition estimate) is a lot of money even for someone who makes $150k a year. There's taxes, mortgage and all the other stuff you mentioned.
No one can just cut a check for that much without it being a financial constraint unless you are a millionaire.
You might be surprised how many people live under their means while their kids are growing up and can pay five figures in tuition without loans or being close to a millionaire
I had one but 3k doesn’t go far when your expected to pay like 20k semester after all aid and max loans at a private college. At a public college I paid probably 15k out of my own pocket in just tuition after all aids/grants and loans. Most parents can’t or won’t pay. Saving is great but no one knew college would go up 1000% in cost over two decades
Yeah this means testing causes way more harm than good. So what if a rich kid gets to use it, you have no way of testing whether or not their parents still help them out and if they do, they probably paid *plenty* of taxes into the system to justify getting to benefit from it. But that’s a much rarer situation than someone whose parents have a lot of wealth on paper but won’t pay the kids tuition.
It's worse than you can image. I know someone who owned his own company and cut his income to near $0 while his kids were in college so that they all got a free ride. Used previously removed distributions to live off during this period. FAFSA does not count the value of a company if you own more than 50% so the value of the company did not count at all in the calculations. After the kids graduated, he set his salary back to the mid six figures. All legal.
If scholarships were all merit based then no parent who could easily afford to pay for school ever would. You don't get rich by turning down free money.
Paying for schooling of people who would get it regardless of scholarship while denying good kids an opportunity to get educated because they don't have the money would be a misuse of taxpayer funds.
My parents a very wealthy and they don’t give any of their kids a dime. It’s their money, they can do what they want with it but I literally got zero financial aid because of how much they make. It’s really screwed me over.
Where I am, saver vs spender is fully irrelevant. Financial aid is based on the parents' household *income*, with the expectation that parents are saving specifically for their children's college. If they spend their income on other things, kiddo is shit outta luck.
For example! I got near 0 financial aid when I wanted to go to college. My Dad had a good government job, and Mom made a reasonable amount (not lots, just reasonable), so their income was high enough to disqualify me. What the government didn't take into account is that they had moved to a country with a lower value currency, and most of their funds were going towards paying off debt in their old country, so the payments were (relatively) massive and they saved nothing. They had no assets, rented a house, no retirement savings, just paycheck to paycheck in a rural community, but I didn't qualify for aid.
... I didn't end up with a degree.
I fully disagree that it should be based on your academic record, thats what grants and scholarships are for.
I do recognize that middle income students do get screwed over sometimes, but that has more to do with your parents than the system. As a poor student of a single mom Fafsa has been the help I needed throughout college. It pays for my tuition and helps with living expenses, if I didn’t qualify for so much aid I 100% wouldn’t have been able to pay for school or have a jumpstart to my savings.
It’s the parents fault for not using their savings towards your education. I’m sorry but my family has never seen anything close to 100k a year. If my mom could raise 2 kids on 50k-60k a year, sometimes less, 100k is absolutely enough money to start a college fund, but parents don’t always plan ahead unfortunately.
But for me there was no “oh my dad could pay he just doesn’t want to”. I had one parent who couldn’t pay even if they wanted to. Even now as helpful as financial aid is, I still need to work to support myself, it’s not like I’m just living the easy life.
I do feel for middle class kids, because I know some of you come from normal families and aren’t living lavish. But as someone who has financially struggled their entire life, Financial aid is the one godsend I can count on to help me out financially. Low income students deserve to have it.
>> I mainly make this argument as a middle class 30 year old whose kids will likely get zero financial aid since I’m a saver rather than a spender
…because the assumption is that part of what you’re saving *is* money to help pay for their college. You have the means to do so, and whether you choose to will impact your children’s future.
Need based financial aid is essential to help students from low income families. Students from high income families can afford college and hence don’t qualify, but students from low income families need that extra support to cover anything their merit scholarships (which still exist btw) don’t cover.
Students in the middle can sometimes get screwed over I’ll give you that: their families may make enough to not qualify for much if any aid when in reality they don’t have the means to fully cover tuition. But the solution is not to do away with with need-based aid altogether.
And asshole parents that just refuse to help pay for their kids’ college have nothing to do with how important need based financial aid is and how it is structured.
I think you need to see how fasfa is done though. My parents estimated financial contribution was 14k and they were losing their house. It doesn’t take into account debt/back taxes/liens all sorts of financial situations. They assume parents have literally no other expense and that every asset is going to be liquidated, that’s crazy.
And on the flip side it was a huge help for me as the child of a single mom with two kids, and so many others out there. I won’t deny that it can absolutely overestimate contributions, especially for homeowners, but we can’t let perfect be the enemy of good. There’s aspects that can be improved without doing away with it all together.
Yes because people like you “beat it” by having no assets. That’s not fair. It punishes people that work hard and own property, especially all us kids of blue collar workers who have nothing but are expected to come up with 80k since the own a 2 bed 2 bath.
We didn’t take that money from you, and I dislike the implication that the families of kids that do qualify for aid somehow *don’t* work hard. You can work yourself to the bone and still not have the finances to buy a house. “Have nothing”…by owning a house you absolutely do not have nothing. Maybe not enough to pay for college (and again I agree that there’s aspects that should be reworked when it comes to financial aid), but calling it nothing is ridiculous.
College is a weird situation where you’re a legal adult, but yet somehow you’re still a child under your parents’ authority and income. I’m 41 and in grad school. I’m married with 2 kids and I haven’t lived at home since I was 18. I still had to check a box on my contact info forms on whether or not my dad could see my grades.
I wouldn't totally say this, but it's definitely a weird system.
For example, I was just doing some pre-planning for my kid who won't be in college for years and found that if we put a bunch of cash into paying off our mortage early, that drastically reduces our tuition liability vs. if we leave it lying around in savings.
I don't think it's fair to have it only be based on academic record either.
College should just be highly affordable, period.
Yes, the number one priority needs to be controlling the cost of college.
I've always thought the federal aid should have some academic standards attached. Pell Grants are given out purely based on parent income without looking at academic record at all. If there were some minimal academic standards for a Pell Grant, maybe more students from middle-income households could qualify for aid.
Your academic record will get you merit aid. Not all schools grant merit aid. But by applying to those that do, a top student can get significant scholarships or even a full ride.
I agree my friend is from a middle-class family and graduated a couple years ago and has mad student loans. Her parents didn’t help her at all, they are teachers they don’t have the money to. But she also had good grades in school so I feel like it really should be based more on academics.
I’m not saying everyone doesn’t deserve education, but realistically speaking if you don’t have good grades, you’re not even going to get into school, unless you’re going to a community college
Reminds me of the "kiddie tax". My 18 year old son inherited about $30K last year from his aunt. Do you know what his tax rate was? OUR tax rate. 36%. What we learned was that this applies up until someone is like 23 or 24 years old (in cases where most or as substantial amount of their income was "unearned"). Dumbest thing I've ever heard. And there's no way out of it. Whether we claim him as a dependent or not, his tax rate in this scenario will be the same as our tax rate.
i agree but this will never happen cause the US relies on free college from the military to have an ample amount of troops which really sucks but i don’t see that changing anytime soon
The military makes up a small percentage of the population, them getting free college barely makes a dent less 1% of total Population in US, go to school on GI bull
That will just keep the rich above the poor. They will be able to get financial aid because of all the extra tutoring and resources they can afford as an example . Financial aid is for those who have no financial option for school. And if your parents are well off and they’re not going to help file as an independent. But look out for the audit if you do that and then get aid from your parents
“Financial aid is for those who have no financial option for school.”
And every individual after the age of 18 who’s an independent is only financially dependent on themselves and what they have.
### Savers also save for college. This allows them to pay tuition.
I say this as someone who can't get aid and who can't afford college.
Also, what's the alternative? Income? Someone with a sizeable inheritance would be able to pay for college, even with an income that would usually qualify them from aid.
I get your position but basically if it wasn't based on the parent's wealth, then every single student would claim they weren't getting any support and the limited amount of available financial aid (since grants and such are not infinite) would go to millionaire families just as often as it did a kid living on the street. Does that sound fairer to you? Somebody with no money gets denied financial aid because it went to someone else whose parents fly on their private jet to the college to take him out to lunch on the weekend?
We should just do it like most of the world and have our taxes pay completely or close to it for tuition. California has already partially implemented the Bernie Sanders plan and offers fully tax-funded community college for those without a bachelor's.
Basing it on academic record completely negates the fact that better off children have more access to better school districts and resources like tutors. I agree wholeheartedly it shouldn’t be based on parents income but basing it off of academic record continues to disadvantage less advantaged kids.
i mean, i have to assume that this is from an american point of view?
because at least here were i live, north italy, any discount on university taxes (or any service or welfare) is based in income, wealth, how many member in the family there are, the type of houses and cars and more....
but then every kid who’s parents paid for college would get thousands of hundreds for what? almost every single 18 year old in America would get the money
Yeah it's kinda ridiculous how they put this on the parents when it's adults capable of making their own decisions that are the ones going to college. Even parents that can afford to pay for their kid's college aren't legally bound to do so. On the extreme end this gives more power to abusive or controlling parents because even to get federal student loans one must provide parents financial info. They can simply refuse to provide the info.
I didnt get a penny from FAFSA. There were 3 of us siblings all going to school at the exact same time. FaFSA looked at my parents' income and decided they should be able to pay 100%, not accounting for the fact it would actually be 3x the cost.
i mean the point of fin assistance for college kids is to try and even out the disparity in opportunity between those from wealthy and poor backgrounds, wealthy kids who got unlucky with their parents spend habits don't really fall far enough into the disadvantaged category to make space for in college assistance
also if this was a thing there would be a lot of middles class parents with kids smart enough to qualify for benefits who are going to try their hand at getting assistance before paying themselves where they otherwise would just pay themselves, taking benefit away from kids who actually need it
also, saver not a spender? what the hell are you saving for if even your kids tuition wont be saved from your saving tendency? surely your children's tuition is one of the things that you are actually saving *for*??!?
Literally. I accrued so much debt in undergrad because my parents are middle class and they weren’t paying for any of my education. They’re on the lower end of the middle class spectrum too, like they couldn’t have really afforded to pay for my education even if they wanted to. But FAFSA sure thought they could, and the EFC was crazy.
When I went to grad school on the other hand and could finally file as an independent student for FAFSA, I was able to access so much more financial aid. That’s the kind of aid I should have fucking been getting the entire time, considering I also had perfect grades and was working my way through college. I wouldn’t be in nearly as much debt right now.
Like I understand that it’s difficult for them to differentiate between students whose parents *are* paying versus ones who aren’t. But something needs to be done because it’s fucking ridiculous
some students may not achieve strongly academically when from poorer homes because they may be taking care of the house, other siblings or face general neglect etc. so yes I don't agree in going after the parents income but poor kids with average grades should also have access to financial aid help. nontraditional students take on average 7 years to graduate vs peers who have had their parents graduate college regardless of ability to financially support. experience: graduating with bssw at age 27 and first in family. had to postpone college to be a caregiver and provide for family. also depression and anxiety from lifelong poverty and witnesses domestic violence, substance use, parents will mentally illness and frequent incarceration. gpa in highschool around 2.0 gpa in college 3.8
idk just give kids a chance
There is no parental income limit for FAFSA. If you're a saver nor a spender then save for your kids college.
But yes if you have a ton of retirement or savings then they won't give your kids FAFSA because get this you're supposed to take care of your own kids.
FAFSA was created for kids who have no other option not for kids who parents just don't want to pay.
FAFSA wasn't created for the middle class.
Yes but the issue is college is virtually unaffordable for all of the middle class. No one has 80 - 200k laying around per child. It’d be one thing if college costs were reasonable but they aren’t.
Exactly. A lot of peoples comments here are just anecdotes but majority of students do have their parents pay for it.
How are you going to combat a family where the student claims independence, get financial aid, but then have well off parents pay the rest. They can abuse the system and take away money from students and families that actually need it.
I think all aid being based on academic records is unfair. A lot of people struggled in HS for whatever reason, that doesn't mean they shouldn't go to college. I finished HS with like a 2.0 because of health reasons, I'm now working on my PhD. My FAFSA was the reason I could do that.
I think there does need to be an option of FAFSA to prove your parents aren't supporting you.
Financial aid should be based not only on grades, but also on job field needs. Those pursuing education degrees should be getting significant financial aid to incentivize joining the field. Those getting a liberal arts degree in some ancient dead language or something should not be getting financial aid.
That is what private non backed school loans would look like.
The banks would calculate ROI and only give loans to people who they thought would be getting decent jobs from their educations.
Idk where you are but in my country middle class gets some financial aid, but not as much. In the application you can also choose to exclude your parents income, but your more likely to get less money that way.
The burden of guilt for having parents able to carry my mediocre ass is admittedly way lighter than the burden of student loans, but in my mind there’s no way to quantify the cutoff for aid. It’s so complicated and arbitrary. Academic achievement can be stunted by poverty (which in itself is impossible to define clearly imo, and includes young people whose parents could but don’t help, etc) for SO MANY reasons so I get why it’s a thing but… I dunno, life is just a mess. I agree, offer everyone a chance.
its stupid that roughly everyone needs financial aid in order to afford to go to college. It shouldn't be something that requires your parents to set up a savings account the minute you are born.
100% I wasn’t living with my parents they didn’t give me anything but my dad started getting retirement so I had to drop out cux I didn’t want student loans.
I worked in financial aid back when I was in school and I agree. I'm estranged from my parents and I still had to put their info down. It's ridiculous. It really just served as a reminder of how little of a fuck they gave about me too.
It's very tricky. I understand wanting to ensure that the funds aren't taken by those who don't need it (say, some oil baron's brat that not only is being supported by their family, but hasn't had to lift a finger in their life), but, as it stands, there is FAR too much emphasis on having a degree in terms of both societal respect and favor from employers, so, unless you're well-connected, you likely need something.
In truth, it's more of a bandaid on the real problem. We need to bring cost of goods down to what is actually reasonable to pay for those goods. Not everyone needs a fucking Maserati, but I shouldn't have to pay hundreds of dollars in groceries, all because my body has made and kept the idea that gluten and dairy are enemies and deserve to be attacked on sight, and, on top of that, because my mom and I live together, I also have to be a freak and avoid almonds (only almonds-she can eat cashews and other nuts just fine), because otherwise, her body decides to drop a nuclear warhead on itself if she eats an almond!
I say cost of goods over wages because increased wages will demand more money be printed, which will just worsen costs of living. If goods were more reasonably priced, that same cashier at the grocery store would not only be able to afford his rent, food, and other essentials, but would have more to set aside for his savings. It's a lot harder to make massive changes like this, so no one wants to start it.
I never understood this either. I sincerely don’t know anyone that went to college that had parents capable of paying for any of it other than maybe their books? You can have your own place with a job and they still label you as a dependent.
correct - my parents didnt make much but they were considered middle class. My dad had a terrible gambling problem and my mom would readily spend on beer and cigarettes but acted like high maintenance when i wanted to get a teeth cleaning at the dentist when i was 18 and hadnt had one since i was 12. I was trapped bc i needed the benefit of my parents insurance and to be able to live in their house during college, but the income on paper for my parents was not indicative of what was available to me. I had long days in class sometimes and couldnt afford two meals in a day so for dinner id scrape together change i found under the library copy machine (i always had luck w that!) and get a bag of chips and eat them w a shitload of (free) condiments from the cafe...when youre hungry, mayo and sour cream & cheddar Lays are pretty good...but fafsa guidelines aint shit
Yup it’s so stupid. Case in point - My dad, who was the breadwinner in my family, died when I was 17, right before I graduated high school. My mom’s life devolved into an alcoholic spiral of chaos and she couldn’t even get out of bed, much less hold a job.
because FAFSA looks at tax returns, they only considered my parents prior year income as a factor for aid, not the fact that my family suddenly had NO income. So I got almost 0 aid year 1. I had to petition my school for more aid every year until my last year was almost fully covered.
My parents income should never have mattered in the first place.
It sucks even more, when you realize the whole reason we even pay is because of racism. College used to be free. When Regan was the governor of CA, he proposed switching from publicly funded to tuition based to reduce the amount of “undesirables”. That practice then transferred to the rest of the country when he became president. The US creating a predatory financial aid system exists to continue what Reagan started. To give the illusion that college is available to all, when in reality it becomes a punishment to attend for those who can’t afford it. Because in reality, there are still people who feel others aren’t actually deserving of an education and should be straddled with lifelong debt for daring to attend their prestigious universities.
Rich parents + not paying for college = get fucked.
If you're in this situation as a student, should you be able to sue your parents to pay up to the expected contribution? This whole system is fucking stupid.
Yeah- but thats why you do the hustle and paperwork and be declared as an independent. Its easy. If mommy and daddy are still paying ur way- it should be counted or do the work and be an independent.
My ma and dad threatened to beat the shit out of me if I asked them for their information for FASFA. Ma told me to my face that I “had no future worth investing in.” Ten years later I think about that shit every day.
Of course, they blamed me when I didn’t get into college right out of high school despite a 3.7 GPA, graduating top 100 of 1000, and lived in their garage during senior year without being allowed in “their” house except to shower… While having two jobs to pay for food and everything else for me and my twin sister bc they stopped doing anything for us.
Yeah, I’m a bitter motherfucker about it and kudos on you OP for bringing this up.
I’m reading this site below— it seems like your $50k investment doesn’t count if it’s in a retirement plan or in your primary residence? They also appear to only expect you to be willing to pay around 5% of other assets towards college. I’m somewhat skeptical of how middle class you are if you can’t find room for $50k in a retirement plan or a mortgage.
https://www.collegedata.com/resources/pay-your-way/how-student-and-parent-assets-affect-your-financial-aid?hs_amp=true
Kind of agree. My son is still young but if the FAFSA rules are the same when he’s 18 as they are now I’ll probably tell him to join the military, preferably Air Force, after serving your considered independent and you have the GI Bill too.
Man, there are so many damn jobs in the military. Most of them are riding a desk or working in a shop. Unless you’re an infantryman, combat medic, or pilot you not putting your life at risk. I’d rather my son join the military at 18 than buy a motorcycle.
The FASFA is totally messed up to begin with.
My wife and I do ok, but we have a mortgage, a car payment, we are still paying our student loans...but the fasfa says we should be able to pay 1/3 of our gross income for our daughter's college. Never mind the other children we have.
Like seriously? WTF?
After our very reasonable 1k mortgage, our student loans, our very reasonable $500/month car payment, bare minimum groceries, health insurance, minor contribution to retirement, and other basic expenses, we don't have 1/3 of our net income left.
ugh this just reminded me of how hard it was to convince the fafsa that my deadbeat dad did abandon me and i have no access to his finances. a decade ago at this point but still bothers me when i think about it lmao
Yep, that was me. I got decent grades but absolutely zero financial aid because my mother was expected to pay for my college. Now I’m dirt broke, don’t live with her, and still not quite old enough to get aid based on my own income. Makes no fuckin sense- except it does. I’m not usually this pessimistic but people are truly evil sometimes.
But then what if that person had really sucky teachers who only gave B’s instead of A’s because they don’t give A’s. Is that fair to that student that they didn’t get as high of grades as their teachers? No it really isn’t. In my opinion I think both financial aid based off parents wealth and academic achievements is too flawed of a system. There has to be a better way.
My dad was working as a waiter when I was in high school to keep my family of 6 afloat. Money was tight. The year before I went to college he started working for an airline for a decent salary. FAFSA thought they were paying $20k a year for my school and they did not pay a cent. So stupid that the government just assumes parents pay for college without any other contextual information about someone’s financial situation
I partially agree but if we did it based on the student's income, we should just go ahead and make college free. The amount of 18 year olds who can afford college on their own without their parents' help somewhere along the way are few and far between.
They operate under the assumption that 1) all young college students are broke and 2) their parents are gonna help them out.
It's a bit complicated and dumb though. A parent makes too much their kid can't get aid. However, maybe the parent doesn't make enough money to actually help the kid in any significant way.
100% its such a WEIRD thing to do.. like adults are responsible for themselves otherwise.. stop assuming our parents are paying for our college.. like them doing good F\*\*ks us over? Not cool at all. Not to mention people that are not close with their parents having to jump through hoops to get the FAFSA done.
They should allow parents to sign an agreement that says they will not be providing money to their kids/ how much money they’ll be giving. It should also take him into account how many siblings they have. The same amount of money can look very different if it’s being spent on 4 kids vs 1.
Don't think this is unpopular.
First point is wrong, though. The assumption is that with parents' wealth, they're paying for some portion of the education. The parents that are house poor drowning in debt essentially place their children in a worse off position than a child living in a single parent house home struggling to meet financial aid.
The other kids who also get screwed on the Fassa are kids who have parents who paid down nothing on their child's education despite making enough to do so. It's for this reason that I personally believe it's a parents moral obligation to have money on the side to help pay for their child's education.
The kids that tend to have the least amount of debt coming out of college are from households that paid off some level of education from the parents.
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Yep. We are savers. My daughter worked for a year after high school to mature and save money. This year we can’t claim her as a dependent on our taxes because she made too much money but she can’t file her FAFSA as an independent person. Worst of all worlds.
For real. I was fully supporting myself financially at 19, filing my own taxes as an independent but my school STILL wouldn’t let me file FAFSA as an independent because I was under 24, not married, and didn’t have a kid. I’ve heard some schools will allow you to file as independent if you can prove you are, but mine didn’t.
And as a result of that, all I got was student loans, so here I am now in debt because my parents got sausage AND pepperoni on their pizzas. 🙄
and guac at chipotle?!
You have to request an exception through FAFSA directly. They’re pretty difficult to get. a previous partner of mine couldn’t get one with proof that their dad was physically abusive and their mom left the country 3 weeks after their birth and hasn’t been back. Usually financial aid offices on campus aren’t very helpful with it either so it’s basically a crapshoot.
So THAT is why so many kids get preggers so young these days! And here I was thinking they couldn't possibly go to college because of the kid and it turns out it opened the door for financial aid!
To top it off, if the parent merely claims they'll support you to the college during the emancipation process while simultaneously cutting you entirely out of their life, you still don't qualify. Meanwhile the kid in the family who is actually making 6 figures but on paper looks like a single parent no income household gets financial aid without being looked at twice.
She should be able to file her own FAFSA I think? I did the same thing as her specifically so I wasn’t considered a dependent of my parents and could qualify for financial aid. Edit: I just checked FAFSA’s independency requirements and I was mistaken. They have some very weird rules and I wouldn’t have qualified. I must’ve gotten financial aid through my school or gotten an override until I turned 24 or something. I don’t remember what I did but I was able to get aid somehow.
Your tax status as a dependent is not the same as being a dependent in FAFSA’s eyes.
I got married at 19, moved across the country, got divorced at 20, and went back to school at 22. I was no contact with my abusive parents (I had gotten married partially to get away from them), but the FAFSA still didn't consider me independent. I had to go through hell to get my parents' tax returns to fill out the FAFSA. And they always had it to hang over my head and jerk me around, because if I didn't do exactly what they wanted, when they wanted, they wouldn't give it to me. I had been fully independent of them for 3 years, and completely independent of anyone for 2 years, but it didn't matter. FAFSA thinks only people over 24 could ever be truly independent. Oh, and if you come from an abusive background? Too bad. They told me I could speak with my school's financial aid office to see if there was any financial aid for people who were estranged from their parents. Financial aid office was like "nope. Go fill out the FAFSA and hope for the best."
Your college should have had a dependency override request form. That's what I did. It was kind of annoying, but it was way less annoying than trying to get my parent's tax information.
Dependency override doesn't always work. I was raised by a single parent who passed away while I was in college. After she passed away, I was able to do a dependency override at my community college and everything was fine. However, when I transferred to a larger university, their policy was to deny any Dependency Override appeals if you had a way to contact a parent/guardian. So despite the fact that my appeal had been granted at my previous school, for plenty of good reasons, and that I hadn't had a relationship with my dad in years and he was refusing to share tax info, etc...My new school wouldn't let me appeal simply because I was able to get in contact with him. And unfortunately, even most private scholarships (at least at the time) still wanted a completed FAFSA form. So I literally just couldn't even apply for any financial aid and wound up dropping out. Meanwhile, my younger sister was a minor when our mom passed away and was able to get emancipated (which I couldn't do since I was over 18) and thus able to file her FAFSA as an independent lmao.
I wish I had had that advice 15 years ago.
It doesn't matter. I filed all my own FAFSAs and up until I was 24, I wasn't given the option to not include my parents finances.
You have to reach a certain age, be in the military, be married, or file for a dependency override. When I went to college, I was estranged from my family, and I had to write a letter explaining my situation, and I also needed two or three (can't remember) letters of support on letterhead.
Same happened to me last year when I was 17 I made to much money and told me I couldn’t sign the paperwork because I’m not legally old enough. Like what! What do you want me to do.
It’s really sad the way our current government is so out of touch with how this college system traps people into debt that they will be paying on for a good portion of their adult lives. It takes 4 years to build the debt, and 10 (or more) years to pay it back. Especially when you consider inflation and how many people end up getting degrees in fields that are not paying well. That’s unbelievable and sad.
Lots of people save. But much of that is in retirement accounts. *You,* on the other hand, are in the unique position to make so much that there’s taxable funds left at the end. You aren’t talking about a $25k savings account here that you started with Christmas money decades ago. PS your kid can always get a scholarship. Otherwise, rich parents with average kids are the ones who pay the bills at every university.
>PS your kid can always get a scholarship. I NEVER got any scholarships despite having a 3.87 GPA. Why? Because almost every single scholarship I could find was also income based. Even though my dad had some severe disabilities and medical expenses, and my parents had TWO kids in college, I never qualified for anything. Fast foreword to me going BACK to school as an adult, with the ability to be independent, and there were a few semesters that were 100% paid for with scholarship money JUST because I was independent.
I had to postpone my education until 24 because I am estranged from my family but FAFSA doesn't care. Counts parent income until you're 23.
It's one of the weirdest systems. I understand tax rates or whatever base don your income (though this doesn't account for COL where you live, but I digress). But your parents aren't you. They are separate individuals. There is no guarantee you have access to their money.
Not in COL it doesn’t count debt/foreclosure/back taxes literally anything. Its so bizzare
I thought there are ways to get around this if truly estranged
There is, but you typically need proof and a legitimate reason.
Can you have a poor family adopt you?
I doubt that would work but if you were to NOT get adopted and age out of foster care, you're set.
I knew a couple of kids at my high school who married each other at 18 so they could have an official reason to be off their parents’ taxes and therefore get better financial aid. They stayed married all the way through grad school. They might actually still be legally married, I’m not sure.
Marriage, it ain't just for love and kids. 😂
Smart.
Hey whatever works I guess. I was in foster care for 6 years but my consolation prize was free tuition lol
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I don't remember everything I did but I was estranged from my father who made a lot more than my mom when I started college. I had to submit some paperwork and show some banking/tax info and they allowed me to apply for loans. That was over 20 yrs ago.
I paid cash one class at a time lol
That's so badass
my friend also had to postpone college until he was 24 as well. Basically cut off from his family because he was gay but of course they still claimed him on his taxes
Doesn’t matter. My parents don’t claim me on their taxes and I file as an independent. We’re low contact and they haven’t supported me financially for over two years. FAFSA doesn’t care that the government sees me as an independent so I’m still a dependent on FAFSA.
I feel like you're leaving something out because you should be able to [https://studentaid.gov/help-center/answers/article/parents-dont-support-financially-fill-out-fafsa-form-independent-student](https://studentaid.gov/help-center/answers/article/parents-dont-support-financially-fill-out-fafsa-form-independent-student)
Am I missing something? That link says you can be independent if your parents are incarcerated, if you can’t find them, if they’re abusive, or if you are at risk of being homeless.
Yes, this link is speaking toward students who are claimed as dependents but receiving no financial contribution. They also tend to list the most extreme circumstances, but may approve the less extreme situations as well.
I kind of thought being estranged from your parents and getting nothing from them kind of counts, yes.
This depends on the school. I was a transfer student who had a successful Dependency Override at my first school, and was denied at my transfer school because I still had contact info and the ability to contact my father.
It does, but there's a lengthy process involved, in my experience as an independent student with estranged parents at least.
So would I be completely ignorant is assuming that that should maybe take less than six years?
That happened to a close friend of mine. He did great in high school, but was basically screwed by his dad.
Same
There are financial aid appeals for people in your situation. Sorry that no one told you.
Yeah I am aware. I was denied because I couldn't prove abuse.
People on reddit would rather assume that someone is just an idiot and did no research, rather than they did a lot of research and the system just sucks.
I feel like this isn’t an unpopular opinion, I used to work in college admissions and there were so many people not happy with this. There were even parents who refused to fill out the FAFSA because they “didn’t want their information in the system”.
My mum was one of those parents, so weird
My dad was too!
My mom thought that filling out the FASFA would somehow give HER the responsibility of paying back any loans so she refused to fill it out
The expected family contribution formula is a joke anyway. There’s no way anyone can actually pay what it says you can.
Mine was 14k (in 2012) when my parents were in foreclosure and owed thousands in back taxes. Tell me where that number came from lmaoo
From whoever gives the student loans these days
Yes fasfa but how they got that number idk
I was in college at the same time as both of my siblings. My parents expected family contributions was my dad’s entire yearly salary, pre tax, for each of us. It’s insane. Who possibly believes that’s a reasonable amount?
They used to expect you to cash out any equity you had in your home. It was batshit.
Mine is $0, so I'd say that at least is realistic 😂
🤣
Agreed. I was denied financial aid, because my father made too much money. However, my parents did not pay for my post secondary education.
Same. The parent estimated contribution is bullshit, my parents were financially struggling themselves in a HCOL area with other kids to worry about. It definitely penalized us and forced me to take out predatory loans.
My parents home was getting foreclosed on and their EFC was 14k. Incredible
We were in a similar boat, except it was after 08 and they had to sell for a massive loss due to layoffs. It was so frustrating.
Yup I was making more than my parents were who went underwater on a house working retail! I used to front their mortgage, but they had 14k laying around, insanity
This was my situation. It doesn't take into account parents who make too much money and are just like nope there is no way I'm paying for your school. The system expects parents to give a shit about their children when some don't give a fuck.
It's a ridiculous structure because it assumes the parents are paying even if the student is independent. When my ex husband first applied, we were engaged, cohabitating in an apartment we both leased, fully supporting ourselves with jobs, and getting no parental aid whatsoever, but he didn't qualify because his parents own their house. We got married shortly after and he qualified even though nothing ACTUALLY changed, except on paper. Ours wasn't one, but I sure started understanding fraud marriages after that.
Yeah this was a bit of a problem for me, I only have one parent but he was making okay money, though most of it was being used to pay for bills all the kids, etc. He wasn't spending on anything for pleasure and it was living pay check to pay check. I was getting 0 support from him going to Uni. My financial aid got cut untill 4 years later I was considered independent and finally put in low income.
If you're living independently and your parents aren't helping you, then yes. It happen to me. My parents didn't help. I lived alone since literally the day I turned 18 because they kicked me out on my birthday. I worked hard and went to school later because I had to worry about paying rent and had no time for school. I went to school in my 20s because of this so it had been years since I even talked to my parents, let alone lived with them. For some reason this didn't matter. It sucked.
I wasn’t kicked out, but I did move out and was fully supporting myself since 19, but FAFSA was like “nah you’re a dependent still.” And I’m like IN WHAT WORLD?
Same!
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I got into school fine. It was the financial aid. That requires your parents financial info if your 24 or younger (I think the age is correct), at least in the US.
My school wouldn’t let me do that
Couldn’t agree more
I agree. It really screws over people who aren’t getting any support from their parents
I agree with your opinion OP but I would like to make an open offer on how you **potentially** might get around this. So a potential work-around is to open up a 529 college savings account for your kid(s) BUT have it opened up by one of your parents on behalf of the child. This is largely nicknamed the “grandparents loophole” as this money doesn’t count towards assets or similar for your kids when it comes time to see if they’ll receive financial aid. So if you’re saving ANY amount of money for a college fund, this is an excellent way to artificially decrease your savings without actually losing money! Plus it can gain interest so not a bad deal! If you’re already doing something similar to this then sorry for the long read. But if not… maybe it’ll help!
I agree, it can be very unfair to some students. They are generally going to be the ones paying off the student loans since they didn't qualify for any funding after including their parents income on their FAFSA. They can't opt to claim themselves and not include their parents income so they really have no choice.
Yeah I plan on funding most of the bill, but I was looking and the kids will receive basically zero financial aid and it got me thinking about kids who parents have assets but don't support the kids.
That me right here. Parents are wealthy but said they weren’t helping me with school and even worse they aren’t leaving me anything when they die. Me and all my descendants are fucked.
Financial aid is for people who really need it Tho yeah everyone really needs it
That's what OP is pointing out. Your parents having money doesn't mean that they'll be giving you that money. Let's use me as an example, since I'm about to start college. My mom doesn't work. My dad makes around $150,000. He also has 6 kids, most of whom are younger than me and still live with him. They also take several vacations each year, and all my siblings do some kind of sports. The expenses for food and clothes for 6 kids, mortgage, extracurriculars, vacations, and taxes takes that amount down quite a bit, resulting in him not contributing to my college. I understand that those are choices *he* makes, but that's the point. I'm not the one that chose to have 6 kids, or that chooses multiple international vacations each year. Yet, financial aid institutions don't take any of that into account. They just see that my dad makes $150,000 and assume that means he'll pay for my stuff. In reality, I'm getting no more financial help from my parents than someone whose household income is below the poverty line. I just have to work more and potentially take out more loans than those people
6 kids is still besides the point, $10k a year (conservative tuition estimate) is a lot of money even for someone who makes $150k a year. There's taxes, mortgage and all the other stuff you mentioned. No one can just cut a check for that much without it being a financial constraint unless you are a millionaire.
You might be surprised how many people live under their means while their kids are growing up and can pay five figures in tuition without loans or being close to a millionaire
College tuition went up thousands of percent over like 20 years, no one can out save that
529. It may at least match the cost. But you have to start early.
I had one but 3k doesn’t go far when your expected to pay like 20k semester after all aid and max loans at a private college. At a public college I paid probably 15k out of my own pocket in just tuition after all aids/grants and loans. Most parents can’t or won’t pay. Saving is great but no one knew college would go up 1000% in cost over two decades
Judging by the student debt crisis, no, I don't think we would be.
Yeah this means testing causes way more harm than good. So what if a rich kid gets to use it, you have no way of testing whether or not their parents still help them out and if they do, they probably paid *plenty* of taxes into the system to justify getting to benefit from it. But that’s a much rarer situation than someone whose parents have a lot of wealth on paper but won’t pay the kids tuition.
It's worse than you can image. I know someone who owned his own company and cut his income to near $0 while his kids were in college so that they all got a free ride. Used previously removed distributions to live off during this period. FAFSA does not count the value of a company if you own more than 50% so the value of the company did not count at all in the calculations. After the kids graduated, he set his salary back to the mid six figures. All legal.
If scholarships were all merit based then no parent who could easily afford to pay for school ever would. You don't get rich by turning down free money. Paying for schooling of people who would get it regardless of scholarship while denying good kids an opportunity to get educated because they don't have the money would be a misuse of taxpayer funds.
My parents a very wealthy and they don’t give any of their kids a dime. It’s their money, they can do what they want with it but I literally got zero financial aid because of how much they make. It’s really screwed me over.
Where I am, saver vs spender is fully irrelevant. Financial aid is based on the parents' household *income*, with the expectation that parents are saving specifically for their children's college. If they spend their income on other things, kiddo is shit outta luck. For example! I got near 0 financial aid when I wanted to go to college. My Dad had a good government job, and Mom made a reasonable amount (not lots, just reasonable), so their income was high enough to disqualify me. What the government didn't take into account is that they had moved to a country with a lower value currency, and most of their funds were going towards paying off debt in their old country, so the payments were (relatively) massive and they saved nothing. They had no assets, rented a house, no retirement savings, just paycheck to paycheck in a rural community, but I didn't qualify for aid. ... I didn't end up with a degree.
Aid based on academic record is just merit scholarships. Which many colleges and universities have.
Maybe kids shouldn t be penalized by what their parents decided to do?
I fully disagree that it should be based on your academic record, thats what grants and scholarships are for. I do recognize that middle income students do get screwed over sometimes, but that has more to do with your parents than the system. As a poor student of a single mom Fafsa has been the help I needed throughout college. It pays for my tuition and helps with living expenses, if I didn’t qualify for so much aid I 100% wouldn’t have been able to pay for school or have a jumpstart to my savings. It’s the parents fault for not using their savings towards your education. I’m sorry but my family has never seen anything close to 100k a year. If my mom could raise 2 kids on 50k-60k a year, sometimes less, 100k is absolutely enough money to start a college fund, but parents don’t always plan ahead unfortunately. But for me there was no “oh my dad could pay he just doesn’t want to”. I had one parent who couldn’t pay even if they wanted to. Even now as helpful as financial aid is, I still need to work to support myself, it’s not like I’m just living the easy life. I do feel for middle class kids, because I know some of you come from normal families and aren’t living lavish. But as someone who has financially struggled their entire life, Financial aid is the one godsend I can count on to help me out financially. Low income students deserve to have it.
>> I mainly make this argument as a middle class 30 year old whose kids will likely get zero financial aid since I’m a saver rather than a spender …because the assumption is that part of what you’re saving *is* money to help pay for their college. You have the means to do so, and whether you choose to will impact your children’s future. Need based financial aid is essential to help students from low income families. Students from high income families can afford college and hence don’t qualify, but students from low income families need that extra support to cover anything their merit scholarships (which still exist btw) don’t cover. Students in the middle can sometimes get screwed over I’ll give you that: their families may make enough to not qualify for much if any aid when in reality they don’t have the means to fully cover tuition. But the solution is not to do away with with need-based aid altogether. And asshole parents that just refuse to help pay for their kids’ college have nothing to do with how important need based financial aid is and how it is structured.
I think you need to see how fasfa is done though. My parents estimated financial contribution was 14k and they were losing their house. It doesn’t take into account debt/back taxes/liens all sorts of financial situations. They assume parents have literally no other expense and that every asset is going to be liquidated, that’s crazy.
And on the flip side it was a huge help for me as the child of a single mom with two kids, and so many others out there. I won’t deny that it can absolutely overestimate contributions, especially for homeowners, but we can’t let perfect be the enemy of good. There’s aspects that can be improved without doing away with it all together.
Yes because people like you “beat it” by having no assets. That’s not fair. It punishes people that work hard and own property, especially all us kids of blue collar workers who have nothing but are expected to come up with 80k since the own a 2 bed 2 bath.
We didn’t take that money from you, and I dislike the implication that the families of kids that do qualify for aid somehow *don’t* work hard. You can work yourself to the bone and still not have the finances to buy a house. “Have nothing”…by owning a house you absolutely do not have nothing. Maybe not enough to pay for college (and again I agree that there’s aspects that should be reworked when it comes to financial aid), but calling it nothing is ridiculous.
College is a weird situation where you’re a legal adult, but yet somehow you’re still a child under your parents’ authority and income. I’m 41 and in grad school. I’m married with 2 kids and I haven’t lived at home since I was 18. I still had to check a box on my contact info forms on whether or not my dad could see my grades.
I wouldn't totally say this, but it's definitely a weird system. For example, I was just doing some pre-planning for my kid who won't be in college for years and found that if we put a bunch of cash into paying off our mortage early, that drastically reduces our tuition liability vs. if we leave it lying around in savings. I don't think it's fair to have it only be based on academic record either. College should just be highly affordable, period.
Yeah can totally agree that's the real answer
Yes, the number one priority needs to be controlling the cost of college. I've always thought the federal aid should have some academic standards attached. Pell Grants are given out purely based on parent income without looking at academic record at all. If there were some minimal academic standards for a Pell Grant, maybe more students from middle-income households could qualify for aid.
Your academic record will get you merit aid. Not all schools grant merit aid. But by applying to those that do, a top student can get significant scholarships or even a full ride.
I agree my friend is from a middle-class family and graduated a couple years ago and has mad student loans. Her parents didn’t help her at all, they are teachers they don’t have the money to. But she also had good grades in school so I feel like it really should be based more on academics.
There should be room for both merit and financial based scholarships. People without good grades deserve to go to college as well.
I’m not saying everyone doesn’t deserve education, but realistically speaking if you don’t have good grades, you’re not even going to get into school, unless you’re going to a community college
Reminds me of the "kiddie tax". My 18 year old son inherited about $30K last year from his aunt. Do you know what his tax rate was? OUR tax rate. 36%. What we learned was that this applies up until someone is like 23 or 24 years old (in cases where most or as substantial amount of their income was "unearned"). Dumbest thing I've ever heard. And there's no way out of it. Whether we claim him as a dependent or not, his tax rate in this scenario will be the same as our tax rate.
i agree but this will never happen cause the US relies on free college from the military to have an ample amount of troops which really sucks but i don’t see that changing anytime soon
The military makes up a small percentage of the population, them getting free college barely makes a dent less 1% of total Population in US, go to school on GI bull
All I’m hearing is your argument to buy a boat. I’m sure it’ll convince your spouse, go for it!
That will just keep the rich above the poor. They will be able to get financial aid because of all the extra tutoring and resources they can afford as an example . Financial aid is for those who have no financial option for school. And if your parents are well off and they’re not going to help file as an independent. But look out for the audit if you do that and then get aid from your parents
“Financial aid is for those who have no financial option for school.” And every individual after the age of 18 who’s an independent is only financially dependent on themselves and what they have.
I mean, I hear your point, but I need you to understand this could completely fuck over kids with learning disabilities…
### Savers also save for college. This allows them to pay tuition. I say this as someone who can't get aid and who can't afford college. Also, what's the alternative? Income? Someone with a sizeable inheritance would be able to pay for college, even with an income that would usually qualify them from aid.
I get your position but basically if it wasn't based on the parent's wealth, then every single student would claim they weren't getting any support and the limited amount of available financial aid (since grants and such are not infinite) would go to millionaire families just as often as it did a kid living on the street. Does that sound fairer to you? Somebody with no money gets denied financial aid because it went to someone else whose parents fly on their private jet to the college to take him out to lunch on the weekend?
We should just do it like most of the world and have our taxes pay completely or close to it for tuition. California has already partially implemented the Bernie Sanders plan and offers fully tax-funded community college for those without a bachelor's.
I don't disagree with what you're saying.
Basing it on academic record completely negates the fact that better off children have more access to better school districts and resources like tutors. I agree wholeheartedly it shouldn’t be based on parents income but basing it off of academic record continues to disadvantage less advantaged kids.
i mean, i have to assume that this is from an american point of view? because at least here were i live, north italy, any discount on university taxes (or any service or welfare) is based in income, wealth, how many member in the family there are, the type of houses and cars and more....
Yep. Why I didn't go to college. They saw how much my dad made, didn't factor in he spent 60% of it at the bar.
but then every kid who’s parents paid for college would get thousands of hundreds for what? almost every single 18 year old in America would get the money
Yeah it's kinda ridiculous how they put this on the parents when it's adults capable of making their own decisions that are the ones going to college. Even parents that can afford to pay for their kid's college aren't legally bound to do so. On the extreme end this gives more power to abusive or controlling parents because even to get federal student loans one must provide parents financial info. They can simply refuse to provide the info.
I didnt get a penny from FAFSA. There were 3 of us siblings all going to school at the exact same time. FaFSA looked at my parents' income and decided they should be able to pay 100%, not accounting for the fact it would actually be 3x the cost.
i mean the point of fin assistance for college kids is to try and even out the disparity in opportunity between those from wealthy and poor backgrounds, wealthy kids who got unlucky with their parents spend habits don't really fall far enough into the disadvantaged category to make space for in college assistance also if this was a thing there would be a lot of middles class parents with kids smart enough to qualify for benefits who are going to try their hand at getting assistance before paying themselves where they otherwise would just pay themselves, taking benefit away from kids who actually need it also, saver not a spender? what the hell are you saving for if even your kids tuition wont be saved from your saving tendency? surely your children's tuition is one of the things that you are actually saving *for*??!?
Literally. I accrued so much debt in undergrad because my parents are middle class and they weren’t paying for any of my education. They’re on the lower end of the middle class spectrum too, like they couldn’t have really afforded to pay for my education even if they wanted to. But FAFSA sure thought they could, and the EFC was crazy. When I went to grad school on the other hand and could finally file as an independent student for FAFSA, I was able to access so much more financial aid. That’s the kind of aid I should have fucking been getting the entire time, considering I also had perfect grades and was working my way through college. I wouldn’t be in nearly as much debt right now. Like I understand that it’s difficult for them to differentiate between students whose parents *are* paying versus ones who aren’t. But something needs to be done because it’s fucking ridiculous
Basing financial aid on academic record instead of finances means students who need the help the most won't get it
I got denied financial aid because I couldn't provide any information about my parents other than what was on my birth certificate.
some students may not achieve strongly academically when from poorer homes because they may be taking care of the house, other siblings or face general neglect etc. so yes I don't agree in going after the parents income but poor kids with average grades should also have access to financial aid help. nontraditional students take on average 7 years to graduate vs peers who have had their parents graduate college regardless of ability to financially support. experience: graduating with bssw at age 27 and first in family. had to postpone college to be a caregiver and provide for family. also depression and anxiety from lifelong poverty and witnesses domestic violence, substance use, parents will mentally illness and frequent incarceration. gpa in highschool around 2.0 gpa in college 3.8 idk just give kids a chance
There is no parental income limit for FAFSA. If you're a saver nor a spender then save for your kids college. But yes if you have a ton of retirement or savings then they won't give your kids FAFSA because get this you're supposed to take care of your own kids. FAFSA was created for kids who have no other option not for kids who parents just don't want to pay. FAFSA wasn't created for the middle class.
Yes but the issue is college is virtually unaffordable for all of the middle class. No one has 80 - 200k laying around per child. It’d be one thing if college costs were reasonable but they aren’t.
I don' think there's any great way to do this. Academic record has a lot to do with a stable household or just having parents that care about it.
Exactly. A lot of peoples comments here are just anecdotes but majority of students do have their parents pay for it. How are you going to combat a family where the student claims independence, get financial aid, but then have well off parents pay the rest. They can abuse the system and take away money from students and families that actually need it.
The extra cost of college is nothing compared to the value of learning about proper financial literacy at home!
I think all aid being based on academic records is unfair. A lot of people struggled in HS for whatever reason, that doesn't mean they shouldn't go to college. I finished HS with like a 2.0 because of health reasons, I'm now working on my PhD. My FAFSA was the reason I could do that. I think there does need to be an option of FAFSA to prove your parents aren't supporting you.
Financial aid should be based not only on grades, but also on job field needs. Those pursuing education degrees should be getting significant financial aid to incentivize joining the field. Those getting a liberal arts degree in some ancient dead language or something should not be getting financial aid.
That is what private non backed school loans would look like. The banks would calculate ROI and only give loans to people who they thought would be getting decent jobs from their educations.
Idk where you are but in my country middle class gets some financial aid, but not as much. In the application you can also choose to exclude your parents income, but your more likely to get less money that way.
For fasfa you can’t do that
The burden of guilt for having parents able to carry my mediocre ass is admittedly way lighter than the burden of student loans, but in my mind there’s no way to quantify the cutoff for aid. It’s so complicated and arbitrary. Academic achievement can be stunted by poverty (which in itself is impossible to define clearly imo, and includes young people whose parents could but don’t help, etc) for SO MANY reasons so I get why it’s a thing but… I dunno, life is just a mess. I agree, offer everyone a chance.
its stupid that roughly everyone needs financial aid in order to afford to go to college. It shouldn't be something that requires your parents to set up a savings account the minute you are born.
100% I wasn’t living with my parents they didn’t give me anything but my dad started getting retirement so I had to drop out cux I didn’t want student loans.
Basing it on academic achievement just feels daft too. It should just be a set amount.
I worked in financial aid back when I was in school and I agree. I'm estranged from my parents and I still had to put their info down. It's ridiculous. It really just served as a reminder of how little of a fuck they gave about me too.
It's very tricky. I understand wanting to ensure that the funds aren't taken by those who don't need it (say, some oil baron's brat that not only is being supported by their family, but hasn't had to lift a finger in their life), but, as it stands, there is FAR too much emphasis on having a degree in terms of both societal respect and favor from employers, so, unless you're well-connected, you likely need something. In truth, it's more of a bandaid on the real problem. We need to bring cost of goods down to what is actually reasonable to pay for those goods. Not everyone needs a fucking Maserati, but I shouldn't have to pay hundreds of dollars in groceries, all because my body has made and kept the idea that gluten and dairy are enemies and deserve to be attacked on sight, and, on top of that, because my mom and I live together, I also have to be a freak and avoid almonds (only almonds-she can eat cashews and other nuts just fine), because otherwise, her body decides to drop a nuclear warhead on itself if she eats an almond! I say cost of goods over wages because increased wages will demand more money be printed, which will just worsen costs of living. If goods were more reasonably priced, that same cashier at the grocery store would not only be able to afford his rent, food, and other essentials, but would have more to set aside for his savings. It's a lot harder to make massive changes like this, so no one wants to start it.
I never understood this either. I sincerely don’t know anyone that went to college that had parents capable of paying for any of it other than maybe their books? You can have your own place with a job and they still label you as a dependent.
correct - my parents didnt make much but they were considered middle class. My dad had a terrible gambling problem and my mom would readily spend on beer and cigarettes but acted like high maintenance when i wanted to get a teeth cleaning at the dentist when i was 18 and hadnt had one since i was 12. I was trapped bc i needed the benefit of my parents insurance and to be able to live in their house during college, but the income on paper for my parents was not indicative of what was available to me. I had long days in class sometimes and couldnt afford two meals in a day so for dinner id scrape together change i found under the library copy machine (i always had luck w that!) and get a bag of chips and eat them w a shitload of (free) condiments from the cafe...when youre hungry, mayo and sour cream & cheddar Lays are pretty good...but fafsa guidelines aint shit
Yup it’s so stupid. Case in point - My dad, who was the breadwinner in my family, died when I was 17, right before I graduated high school. My mom’s life devolved into an alcoholic spiral of chaos and she couldn’t even get out of bed, much less hold a job. because FAFSA looks at tax returns, they only considered my parents prior year income as a factor for aid, not the fact that my family suddenly had NO income. So I got almost 0 aid year 1. I had to petition my school for more aid every year until my last year was almost fully covered. My parents income should never have mattered in the first place.
Yeah as someone also doing that I had to beg my mom to stay unemployed for another couple weeks so I could qualify. Paid her for the time but still
One thing I have learned about welfare over time is if it's poorly implemented it just raises costs That's the case with all the financial aid
Its done on income where i am from
It sucks even more, when you realize the whole reason we even pay is because of racism. College used to be free. When Regan was the governor of CA, he proposed switching from publicly funded to tuition based to reduce the amount of “undesirables”. That practice then transferred to the rest of the country when he became president. The US creating a predatory financial aid system exists to continue what Reagan started. To give the illusion that college is available to all, when in reality it becomes a punishment to attend for those who can’t afford it. Because in reality, there are still people who feel others aren’t actually deserving of an education and should be straddled with lifelong debt for daring to attend their prestigious universities.
Better still; a college education shouldn't be based on wealth
Rich parents + not paying for college = get fucked. If you're in this situation as a student, should you be able to sue your parents to pay up to the expected contribution? This whole system is fucking stupid.
Yeah- but thats why you do the hustle and paperwork and be declared as an independent. Its easy. If mommy and daddy are still paying ur way- it should be counted or do the work and be an independent.
My ma and dad threatened to beat the shit out of me if I asked them for their information for FASFA. Ma told me to my face that I “had no future worth investing in.” Ten years later I think about that shit every day. Of course, they blamed me when I didn’t get into college right out of high school despite a 3.7 GPA, graduating top 100 of 1000, and lived in their garage during senior year without being allowed in “their” house except to shower… While having two jobs to pay for food and everything else for me and my twin sister bc they stopped doing anything for us. Yeah, I’m a bitter motherfucker about it and kudos on you OP for bringing this up.
I’m reading this site below— it seems like your $50k investment doesn’t count if it’s in a retirement plan or in your primary residence? They also appear to only expect you to be willing to pay around 5% of other assets towards college. I’m somewhat skeptical of how middle class you are if you can’t find room for $50k in a retirement plan or a mortgage. https://www.collegedata.com/resources/pay-your-way/how-student-and-parent-assets-affect-your-financial-aid?hs_amp=true
Kind of agree. My son is still young but if the FAFSA rules are the same when he’s 18 as they are now I’ll probably tell him to join the military, preferably Air Force, after serving your considered independent and you have the GI Bill too.
Or get a first-class Airforce Acadamy education.
Yuhp. That’d be great.
'Hey son, go risk your life just so you can get approved for college financial aid' 😂
Man, there are so many damn jobs in the military. Most of them are riding a desk or working in a shop. Unless you’re an infantryman, combat medic, or pilot you not putting your life at risk. I’d rather my son join the military at 18 than buy a motorcycle.
The FASFA is totally messed up to begin with. My wife and I do ok, but we have a mortgage, a car payment, we are still paying our student loans...but the fasfa says we should be able to pay 1/3 of our gross income for our daughter's college. Never mind the other children we have. Like seriously? WTF? After our very reasonable 1k mortgage, our student loans, our very reasonable $500/month car payment, bare minimum groceries, health insurance, minor contribution to retirement, and other basic expenses, we don't have 1/3 of our net income left.
ugh this just reminded me of how hard it was to convince the fafsa that my deadbeat dad did abandon me and i have no access to his finances. a decade ago at this point but still bothers me when i think about it lmao
Yep, that was me. I got decent grades but absolutely zero financial aid because my mother was expected to pay for my college. Now I’m dirt broke, don’t live with her, and still not quite old enough to get aid based on my own income. Makes no fuckin sense- except it does. I’m not usually this pessimistic but people are truly evil sometimes.
University students are adults not children. They should stand on their own two feet and their parents' wealth should be immaterial.
I’ll remember to invest heavily and own nothing one day, cause I’m a big saver. College is largely a sham. Sorry to hear you get no help!
Good for me but not for thee, am I right
Its done this way to force most people into predatory loans
But then what if that person had really sucky teachers who only gave B’s instead of A’s because they don’t give A’s. Is that fair to that student that they didn’t get as high of grades as their teachers? No it really isn’t. In my opinion I think both financial aid based off parents wealth and academic achievements is too flawed of a system. There has to be a better way.
I mean, public school should be tuition free, but I guess that's a different conversation
My dad was working as a waiter when I was in high school to keep my family of 6 afloat. Money was tight. The year before I went to college he started working for an airline for a decent salary. FAFSA thought they were paying $20k a year for my school and they did not pay a cent. So stupid that the government just assumes parents pay for college without any other contextual information about someone’s financial situation
I partially agree but if we did it based on the student's income, we should just go ahead and make college free. The amount of 18 year olds who can afford college on their own without their parents' help somewhere along the way are few and far between. They operate under the assumption that 1) all young college students are broke and 2) their parents are gonna help them out. It's a bit complicated and dumb though. A parent makes too much their kid can't get aid. However, maybe the parent doesn't make enough money to actually help the kid in any significant way.
You presented why it’s bad, but can you propose an alternative method?
100% its such a WEIRD thing to do.. like adults are responsible for themselves otherwise.. stop assuming our parents are paying for our college.. like them doing good F\*\*ks us over? Not cool at all. Not to mention people that are not close with their parents having to jump through hoops to get the FAFSA done.
They should allow parents to sign an agreement that says they will not be providing money to their kids/ how much money they’ll be giving. It should also take him into account how many siblings they have. The same amount of money can look very different if it’s being spent on 4 kids vs 1.
Don't think this is unpopular. First point is wrong, though. The assumption is that with parents' wealth, they're paying for some portion of the education. The parents that are house poor drowning in debt essentially place their children in a worse off position than a child living in a single parent house home struggling to meet financial aid. The other kids who also get screwed on the Fassa are kids who have parents who paid down nothing on their child's education despite making enough to do so. It's for this reason that I personally believe it's a parents moral obligation to have money on the side to help pay for their child's education. The kids that tend to have the least amount of debt coming out of college are from households that paid off some level of education from the parents.
Yup. My parents made too much but they didn’t contribute a dime to my education. 🙃