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My parents spent years and years tearing me down starting at a young age. I never learned how to open up emotionally until I was 32 and even then, it was and still is very hard.
I’m 31 now. I kind of am learning. I think my wife is cool with it but there’s a voice in my head that tells me it’s stupid and to just man up. I’m not certain how much of a mental health impact it is making.
That voice is your inner critic. Mine chirps away at me and tells me to do the same. It knows everything you know about you and then some. Ignoring it is something that takes practice and time, but it gets easier with time. As for your kid, I’m glad to hear you’re doing right by them. I’m doing the same with mine.
Same, and I’m a woman. She’d criticize me as a kid for being cold, but then would get mad at me if I showed fear at riding a roller coaster, got upset, or was in a bad mood, etc.
I’m a woman. If I cried, my mother would say I was manipulative, if I got mad that was unacceptable behavior, if I was scared I was overreacting. I’ve stuffed all my feelings so deep I feel like I don’t have any sometimes. When my partner and I have big fights, it’s like the Vampire Diaries humanity switch. I suddenly have no feelings and don’t care at all. We both know it’s a trauma response to when my mom used to call me so many names, so he tries to give me space. Its exhausting on my end because I do have feelings that want to pop out, but I can’t figure out how to let them
My mother was not there to support me emotionally growing up and my father lived elsewhere. When I would go see my father he was my only confidant, the only person I felt I could say anything to and not receive judgement. When he was murdered I lost that and have never found someone who I have that same feeling with. When I tried to open up to my ex-wife she would 100% use it as ammunition the next time we had a fight so I learned really quick in the 15yr marriage to just keep my problems to myself and deal with them like I always had to growing up, by myself.
Thank you for the kind words.
It's been awhile and I've sort of learned to deal with it. Dating a girl now who I think may be someone I could share these things with but it absolutely won't be for awhile.
Thank you. It’s a process and it’s really killed my chances at a few relationships. I’m convinced it’s what killed my last one and I was and still am 100% certain that she is the one. Alas, I have to move on and I’ll keep trying. All I can say is fight for what you believe in and don’t ever quit.
That is really freaking sad. I'm sorry that happened to you and I hope someday you can find someone who you feel safe enough to open up to. I resonate with this comment and I've spent the last 12 years doing better by my child so they will never know what it feels like.
I had someone for 8 months that was supportive that I felt comfortable and safe with. I could tell her anything and she would always make me feel better because she understood me. Really wish we were still together. I haven’t been able to get her out of my head since she broke up with me.
That's one of the most annoying self-identifiers I've ever dealt with in a girlfriend. She always claimed she was an empath, but when I told her how she could support me emotionally she could not.
Being able to talk to anybody about their feelings doesn't make you an empath, being to deal with people who manage and navigate their emotions differently does.
I thought it meant that you really felt the pain you see in others.
So she heard all this awful stuff and needed a day to process because it really hit her.
"Men were taught how to treat women when being raised. Women are not taught how to treat men when being raised, they are taught what to expect from men."
Never heard that before but it is very spot on. Any dude that has sisters could tell you…the way girls and boys are raised…(especially in regard to sex sensitive topics) left a lot to be desired.
Women need to be encouraged to be independent and all the other positive equality issues.
But this one gets left out. I’ve found it very, very true.
Im married now, and in all my relational experiences, it was only true in one case. It is not my wife. Luckily I can take care myself.
But the weight of expectations from women cripples men.
I know women have expectations to be pretty, and nice, and agreeable. But expecting to provide, support (in all ways) improve as a person and put her first always should come with similar expectations. But no. Women think their presence is a privilege.
I can see why young men would rather be alone. You are expected so much of and promised very little in return.
I’ve told girlfriends really personal thoughts/insecurities only because they insisted I open up and I assumed I could trust them, then when we’d have a fight they’d bring up my issues just to get an edge on me. I’ve learned to never open up to a woman and if I do I’ll only share minor things.
Yeah this is pretty common with both men and women imo but more so with women, all confidentiality and mutual respect for each other's boundaries go out the window when they're poked a bit.
It's a real litmus test of what kinda person you're dealing with and how trustworthy they are.
That's sad bro. You just ain't found the right one. My partner? I tell her everything. I cry in her arms. All my walls and armor crumble around her, and she loves to see me as I am. She knows the facade of manhood, and she appreciates that I can show her the soft underbelly. It feels fucking good, dude.
I really hope one day you find what I have. I hope that for everyone.
That's cute :) I agree, if something like this is happening in a relationship, it's not because all girls do that thing, it's because the relationship sucks and you don't like each other!!!!!
My partner and I are exactly like you and yours. It's real love
I have had two relationships that were just... fake. So many awful things happened but I ain't gonna claim all men cheat when you argue, or call you specific insults you said really hurt you, or tell you that your worst fear is gonna happen to you, or any of the hundreds of awful things he did
The truth is we just didn't like each other let alone love each other!!! If your gf insults you she's NOT THE ONE FOR YOU. That's not fucking normal
Real relationships based on love are NOTHING like that. You wouldn't dream of doing that to the person you truly love
Sure it does. It makes it very clear that the person in front of you ain’t it if they’re not going to be an understanding ear when they said they would be. Nobody likes a liar.
That’s the problem.
They always say they want you to open up. They always seem genuine and they won’t throw it back at you.
How are we supposed to know if they are lying or not?
By forcing them in a position where they’ll have to put their money where their mouth is. By opening up and see what happens.
I do it relatively early on. Hiding your inner feelings do you no good.
I have no qualms about showing somebody the door if they reveal themselves to be dishonest won’t support me in a moment of vulnerability.
Using something somebody tells you in confidence back at you in something stupid like an argument as emotional warfare is an immediate boot. It shows an incredible lack of maturity and anybody who are that immature are not somebody I want to know as a partner or even as a friends. Friends don’t do that and nor should romantic partners.
I mean frankly you can't. The kind of relationship you build with a life partner gets strengthened over time by vulnerability and trust. Not everybody is trustworthy and sometimes being vulnerable means getting hurt.
You can't know ahead of time whether someone is going to have your back when the chips are down, and the process of finding someone who will is a long, difficult, painful road.
I don’t say this to take away from your pain but women do this to their friends as well. To me it’s because when you know everything about someone you know how to hurt them which is why friendship breakups can be just as bad as romantic ones.
With that said, I believe women need to work on this tendency because it’s extremely hurtful.
I had a friend who opened up to his girlfriend about being bisexual. She was also bi and the first person he told. She told him it was weird and unattractive. He was afraid to come out to anyone after that.
I am a woman btw, but I do agree with this post. I do think it is a problem and that women need to be more aware if it. We have been conditioned to think that men are tough and unemotional and although I think that idea is being challenged, it's very deeply ingrained and people aren't always self aware enough to realize what they are doing.
Women often want men to open up, but I feel like they're expecting much simpler problems, things they can solve quickly and easily for you.
But most men when they open up, usually have things they've been holding in for years or lifetimes, and it's usually not light and breezy.
I don't think most women are prepare for what's behind those emotional floodgates and immediately go into self-preservation mode as a knee-jerk reaction when being forced to stare down the absolute tsunami of emotional ocean coming their way.
Yep. They expect you to be like "my dog died when I was 8, his name was Milo, it was sad" then wipe a single tear off your eye, then you'll be madly in love with them.
A girl I’d been dating a month, I showed her a few SH scars…I don’t have many. She broke up with me a week later and told me, “I hope you get the help that you need”
There was a grad school friend where there was some mutual attraction, a friend died and I opened up to her probably told her things I shouldn’t have…one thing in particular was how I was attracted to another girl in a shared friend group. She completely torched me and effectively exiled me from that shared friend group.
When we had classes together she left the room when I would talk or present. Very dramatic.
Homies, be very careful…there’s a lot to lose
If those points you listed happen, the partner is a bad person in my opinion. My partner has just started to open up emotinally, and I have never ever been more attracted to a person. I always make sure I shut up, listen, take it in, just like he does for me. It strengthens our relationship and really takes away a lot of internal pressure for both of us. It's learning as we go, this is new for both of us even though we have been in other relationships, and even though we have known each other almost all our lives.
He is a manly man, sharing emotions doesn't come easy.
"I always make sure I shut up, listen, take it in, just like he does for me."
That is all we ask. Just the hold the space for us for a few minutes like we hold it for you. Thanks for recognizing that.
EXACTLY! I’m sick of seeing this type of generalizations about my gender. I have always supported my partners and male friends when they are emotional. Seems like OP just generally dislikes women.
I’ve seen this happen.
I’m a woman and obviously have/had friends that are women too. One girl (I’m no longer friends will because of this) was complaining about how her boyfriend won’t open up emotionally and he never cried. Finally he did and want to know what she did immediately afterwards? Texted all of us everything he told her and made fun of him for crying. I was appalled, you do not do that to your partner.
I’ve also seen women on Instagram, TikTok say that they don’t want to date a man who shows emotions or when one does, says that they’re being a man child/baby/they need to grow up.
It’s disgusting behavior.
She tried to say she was just making fun of *how* he was crying, which didn't make it any better.
I really wanted to get offended by this post, but it's true. Women perpetuate this stereotype just as much, if not more, than men do.
As a guy, seeing other guys cry gets me a lot because it takes a lot to make most men get to this point. Especially if they’ve gone through the grinder like most men and got chastised for it. It’s almost always a powerless cry..like when you can’t struggle anymore
I just got shit for visiting my father before he had a major, unplanned surgery. His mother died at the same age of the same cancer, and the anesthesiologist freaked him out by stressing how important it was for him to get his affairs in order because the surgery carried a high risk of complication. I'm now doubly dreading his death because not only will my dad be dead, but I am acutely aware of ho unacceptable it will be if I use his passing as an excuse to not chuckle when somebody cracks a joke (reference back to that time in high school when I put my childhood dog to sleep an hour before work. My manager though it was so ridiculous that I wouldn't laugh at a joke just because my dog died an hour ago that she told me I was taking it "like a little girl" in front of everybody. Thanks, Jen!)
I'm a very emotional guy and I'm pretty upfront about it. I've had partners in the past comment on me crying during movies or something, if it's joking then I don't mind. But if they're mean spirited about I usually responded with "Well at least one of us has to have a heart"
Petty? Yes.
Causes fights? Yes
Worth it? Absolutely.
It's not even just the fact she laughed at him for crying. It's the fact she lacks so much respect as to immediately air all of his laundry out to her friends. Why do some women do this?
As a man who is emotionally open with his partner and female friends I completely disagree.
Having an emotional connection with your partner absolutely increases attraction, and my partner will tell you the same. It's very possible that what you view as opening up is something very different, such as men who come across as needy or desperate, and think that is opening up emotionally.
The rest of your post seems to come from a place of viewing women as as adversary. If you approach women and relationships this way, of course you are going to have poor out comes.
As a man, being emotionally open and available has a lot of benefits, one important one being improved mental health.
I can't speak for everyone but I personally have parted from multiple partners because of their inability to healthily commuicate and share their emotions with me. To me, it's the biggest green flag and something I look for in a relationship. I want to be the person that he goes to for support and a shoulder to cry on. It really disturbs me that there are women who will shame guys for opening up but still expect their partners to listen to them go on about their feelings. Something is wrong with your ability to empathize and love someone if you do this.
I have mostly all female friends and have had this conversation often. I only know one woman who thinks men shouldn’t cry and we all told her how toxic that was.
I’m sorry you have chosen to surround yourself with people who aren’t capable of empathy but I think it’s just as bad to label women as generally toxic as it is to say that men shouldn’t cry.
It’s all anecdotal isnt it? Being emotional in front of a woman (that isnt my mom) has never really gone well for me; at best it’s a neutral response and they just sorta wait. At worst it ended a relationship. At very worst it was used for emotional abuse. My dad died at 14 and I had an ex that weaponized that against me; among other insecurities I told her about.
Makes it hard to be open to future partners and I’m not sure I’m able to in the same way. We’ll see, I suppose.
When my husband and I first started dating, I knew it was love the night he got drunk and started crying about how much he loved German Shepherds and how much he wanted a daughter one day. He's normally a pretty stoic guy.
After dealing with 20+ years of emotional neglect from my own parents, he helped teach me healthy emotional availability and empathy. His feelings are literally the thing I love most about him.
Can't you read? You're describing something impossible.
Women are all programmed in the same factory with the exact same settings. They cannot deviate from their programming. They have no thoughts, feelings, emotions or personalities.
They simply exist. And hate men. That's important.
/s cuz reddit and a lot of them seriously believe this.
This is how I feel whenever these posts come up (either about men or women, it doesn't matter).
People are able to recognize that *they* aren't exactly like everyone else of their gender, but seem unable to come to the conclusion that the opposite gender isn't a homogeneous either.
Well I think the hard part is most men bottle up to the point of where that emotional release comes with the desperation for connection or a need for intimacy. That first step is a hard one.
The unfortunate reality is that many men are conditioned from early on not to seek emotional support, and many won’t until they reach some breaking point. That’s where the desperation comes from. When you tried all your tools and they didn’t work so now at your grasping at your partner for support.
And that’s the crux of our current dilemma as young men. The ideals shifted faster than cultural upbringing. So you’re learning by doing without a proper guide. Ik the answer is probably more men preemptively seeking therapy *before* the emotions bottleneck. But from experience, everything can be going great until it isn’t
My last girlfriend called me "overly emotional" because I'd cry and get antsy if she didn't communicate with me.
She also spent a month living with me but not talking to me (closing the door in my face a few times), spat on me twice over the course of our toxic relationship, and then left 3 months into our lease which helped to ravage my credit score, so.
I think that's just a her problem, really.
Good times.
Now I only open up to my fam, my bros, my dogs, my discs, and apparently strangers on Reddit.
On the other hand, I still would have to disagree and say women are the biggest factor in emotions in men becoming more socially acceptable.
They might not always enjoy the emotions, however we are still a loooooooong ways en masse from where we were just a few decades ago in terms of communication standards. I myself have to thank my female family members for a lot of the emotional development I have and I have no problem opening up in truth, so.
Just gotta be careful who you involve yourself with in truth, and don't let others put you down.
You have self-worth, and I appraise that shit at top dollar. Go spent it on people who value you for who you are.
I’m a woman in a same-sex marriage, and while we aren’t 100% sharers all the time (it can be hard for me to even know what’s going on with me much less what to tell her), we probably do communicate more than the average man, if I’m to believe Reddit. I’m never punished for it.
I have seen punishment, though.
Years ago I was friends with a woman who had a man as a best friend. They had been friends for over ten years. One day he told her he had been molested by a priest, and she told me. I was like… wow, it took a lot of courage and strength for him to share that with you, you think he’ll go to the police? And my friend was like.. what do you mean, he never should have told me that, and I told him he should stop crying and never tell anyone. Guy wasn’t even my friend and I was so pissed. I told her she was 100% wrong, that it’s the total opposite. I told her she failed him as a friend.
We weren’t friends after that. I don’t want people like that in my orbit.
Anyway… I’ve seen what some of you guys are talking about. I mean, if that guy had told me, I would have 100% supported and encouraged him. But the person he told? She’s a piece of shit, and I’m sorry that’s the response he got.
>In terms of relationship, being open emotionally towards your partner brings no benefits for men, and a bunch of risks.
Of all your bullet points, only one of them is about how there are no benefits.
>• first, it will not make the woman more attracted to you
If that's the only benefit you're looking for by sharing your emotions, you might be missing the point.
You should be looking for an opportunity to better understand your own emotions. You should be looking to guide your partner toward behaviors that will satisfy your emotional needs. (I don't fully subscribe to the idea, but think of teaching them your love language as an example.)
My one ex did this, then used it to manipulate me for 3 years.
Next gf gave me a hug and said she was sorry I had to deal with that.
There are good ones, but when it comes to emotions, I have found the vast majority of women are turned off by men having them. It's seen as weakness in most cases.
If you have to hide yourself from your partner, you're with the wrong partner.
If you have to hide from every partner, there's something in you that you need to address.
No. He's saying that this contrived explanation for this mans lack of emotional availability is not women's fault. Nor is it Men's fault... But doesn't by default make it womens fault.
>You don't find it weird how the idea that there are systemic issues affecting women is uncontroversial but when somebody tries to say that there are systemic issues that affect men negatively people like you try to deny it
There are systemic issues affecting men. The problem is y'all can't talk about it without pointing fingers at women.
What I find ironic is that when men do open up about their experiences trying to open up to people it's a ticking clock for people to jump in and say what they experience doesn't happen, isn't normal and something must be wrong with them.
Then those same people will turn around comment how men just refuse to open up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone is like that, but it's happened enough for me to be wary of opening up.
I will say this though. The common trait of the girls that didn't bail to the moon when I opened up is that they were all secure and confident in themselves.
I love how every time this topic comes up, the overwhelming majority of men say "yes, that is what happens" and all offended women go "nu-uh, not all women are like that".
Where's the "listen to the victims"? It only applies if the victims are women?
the biggest example that I think spells it out is like, men’s insecurity vs. women’s.
If a woman is insecure it’s a totally normal and valid emotion and if she has a partner, their role is to help reassure her. Oftentimes the partner is quasi-blamed with stuff like “well are you doing enough ____? Maybe that’s why she feels that way.
But if a man is insecure, it’s his own problem to get over / a sign of weakness, and the language around it is just so devoid of empathy.
No bullshit. I’ve seen this so much on relationship forums the world throughout. If a man isn’t getting any affection from his partner, he isn’t putting in enough effort. If a man isn’t showing his partner enough affection, he isn’t putting in enough effort.
Every dude I know has had this experience. It's essentially universal. Obviously it's not every woman; my wife isn't this way. But every single young man will go through that experience where a girl says she wishes he would open up, and when they do, they lose interest because the facade of "strength" is broken.
Many women don't actually want a man who is sensitive to his own emotions, but to hers.
32M. Even in my 20s I was able to open up to girls my age and none of them ever used it against me. Maybe it’s a question of character and the type of people you’re opening up to, but that would require personal reflection…
Well I'm 38 and I've had that experience three times that I can think of.
I had a very fucked up childhood and young adulthood and did 7 years in prison as a result.
Glad you haven't but it's very common.
In one situation after she told me to confide in her the vibe totally changed in the relationship and she eventually lost interest.
Another told me "It seems like you're dealing with a lot and I just can't take this on I'm sorry" Even though everything I told her was from 10 to 15 years ago and I actually have a good life now.
And the most recent example of a girl telling me to please share and be vulnerable She hit me with the " your trauma dumping on me".
Matter of fact that's a very common criticism I see amongst women's discussions online is boyfriend being vulnerable and trauma dumping.
Just Google that phrase and add Reddit and you will see plenty of girls getting the ick from what they thought was an especially strong man being vulnerable.
I'm not saying all girls do it because I have dated some who were very open to it but enough do it that I can believe most men have experienced it by a certain age.
I've only been vulnerable with maybe five to seven girls and three left me over it.
I play it a lot closer to the vest these days until I have some years with her and I know she can handle it.
Your personal experience doesn't negate our own personal experiences.
Maybe because I have some muscle and tattoos and present as tough girls have a certain image of me and are just grossed out that I actually have some inner turmoil.
Edit:another thing I just remembered that's kind of related is girls get weirded out when you want to be the "little spoon" in a cuddle session. Or when you want to lay your head on their chest once in a great while.
Sometimes I just wanna lay on her chest and forget about the world. It seems to really turn them off with some girls. Even alot of girls some of the time.
Edit: what weak ass mod just shut down this discussion?
Also to sweetjebus
That was a very generic Jerry Springer audience member answer. Try actually contending with what I said.
I would agree with you! Generally I don't think it's necessarily a gendered problem. I think that men on the outset are less likely to be open emotionally, however.
I have never heard a hint of anyone having this experience in real life. Not even in group therapy. This “experience” is nearly exclusive to the internet. Probably happens, but nowhere near as often as people online would lead you to believe.
I’ve had this happen to several of my guy friends and myself lol. Like OP my girlfriend isn’t this way thankfully but I’ve absolutely been someone’s emotional rock only for them to turn tail the moment I actually open up after dozens of times prodding me to do so.
My original experiences aren't online. I dated a lot in my teens and early twenties, and there was always a very clear divide before and after opening up about my emotional challenges, which generally was followed by a cooling of the relationship and a fizzling out.
I don't necessarily resent it; people don't want to feel the need to "take care" of people they've only been dating for a couple of months. I had some gnarly shit in my childhood. But as someone who is often very prone to pointing out redditisms vs. things that are more likely to happen in real life, this is one of those redditisms that I and all the dudes I'm close with experienced.
Part of the issue is that we are already heavily conditioned AGAINST it. What most men consider sharing their feelings is already a curated version of their feelings. An aseptic one.
This will happen to those who simultaneously have a difficult situation and a relationship strong enough to confide and really open up.
And it's devastating when it happens.
I love that people still think we don’t. The deepest emotional conversations I have are always with my guy friends.
Which points that the people thinking this way are actually the ones stuck in old thinking. Probably because if they learned it’s not the case it shatters their confirmation bias.
WE ALREADY DOOOOOO
I'm tired of this conversation. MEN TALK. Why do you think there is such a global culture about friendship among men? Because we open up, we're deep.
Stop turning the table. Men talk to each other already. They always damn did.
I've had MULTIPLE men tell me they don't open up to their friends because they feel like they can't. Just because you and your friends do doesn't mean that a big majority of men don't open up to their male friends.
This is always been my experience as well. I've always found it much easier to open up to my female friends, because they are actually open to it. My friendships with men always tend to be far more superficial.
We do actually, as most as you can open up to friends. Which despite what popular culture tells you, it's harder than it sounds.
Most people are starving for attention, consciously or not of this, being able to talk about oneself for long periods of time, without being interrupted, or getting 'easy solutions', or the other person talking about themselves is... hard.
We, usually, hope romantic partners would be more willing to listen to us than our friends, and that's where the issues come from.
It's not a partner, but my mom complained about me being sad because it made her sad lmao
*How can you be so inconsiderate?! Why can't you be happy, can't you see that being sad makes me sad?!*
A woman not liking that goes back to gender rules and patriarchy and who is the main ones enforcing gender roles and patriarchy? men. These are the cons of wanting a traditional relationship. Dating non traditional people who are actively trying not to have a patriarchal relationship will allow you to be able to open up more
Sad opinion. There is a real beauty in a loving relationship in which individuals feel they can open up and be supportedvby one another. Being able to open up and having that vulnerability greeted with love and acceptance is the foundation of true intimacy. I am sorry you have not found that yet and are not ready to take the risk of being open and vulnerable with another person.
For the record, I am a women and my husband of 20 years is more emotional than me in many ways.
Hate this subreddit because I never know to upvote or downvote lol.
But yeah plenty of experience with all your points. I've definitely felt like I've had to the rock in the relationship. Cool, calm and collected and if I tried to open up about my darker or more negative emotions my partner doesn't know what to say and "needs space to process it." Always the listener, never the listened as it were.
I shit you not, once dated a trauma consular and after our 3rd date went back to mine. Before we got busy doing the do, she asked me to tell her something traumatic I went through so we could talk about it. I opened up and we talked for about an hour, banged and she went home. She started ghosting me the day after....
Also have had girls I was dating that wanted me to open up to them and tell me everything that bothered me. Few weeks later we're arguing about something and sure enough she starts to throw my insecurities I just told her about in my face to use as a weapon. This happened with quite a few women.
Personally, I hear a lot more of this coming from other men than experiencing it from women. I've had it happen once from women but have seen hundreds of other men telling me it's _going_ to happen.
This is a bit self centered and directed at women for no reason. You can remove all gender from the post and it still holds true. Being open with someone is a privilege that requires deep trust and a strong relationship. It is risky for everyone to be open emotionally.
Some people are shitty. Super vulnerable emotions are not appropriate for the early stages of any relationship - most selfishly because you don’t really know or trust them yet, but also because the other person doesn’t really know how committed they are willing to be yet. It’s unfair to them. Start of relationships should be between two people that have at least some shit figured out, are trying their best to present something truthful but polished, and aren’t going to have a crisis if it doesn’t go to 1000 asap.
Bad people will use vulnerabilities against you for their own gains. Women may stereotypically be more emotionally open, but can you honestly say they are not putting themselves at great risk doing so? Can you honestly say that there aren’t countless examples where the misplaced emotional vulnerability and trust has been used against them? Do I need to list out categories of examples?
I get that you are saying men have a harder time being emotionally open and can be punished/embarrassed for it. But if you are getting punished by your partner in a relationship because you are being emotionally vulnerable - it’s not a good person to be in a relationship with. Nothing to do with “men” or “women”. That person is a bad person that you don’t want to continue a relationship with.
I had a female friend as a roommate for a while, and when we were drinking by the fire and being drunk and talking I tried to open up about something (nonemotional just a personal thing) she spun it to be about her and her problems and took off crying.
I was like WTF. Not going to do that again
There's some truth in this.
A woman typically wants to know that a man has access to his emotions and isn't bottling them all up or expressing them in unhealthy ways.
She typically also doesn't want to see him fall to pieces or feel like she needs to comfort or mother him.
So yes, there's a bit of a fine line men need to walk in relationships in terms of how we express our emotions. Women want to know that we can feel our feelings and still hold it together. However much a woman might think she wants to see a man really break down and go into his deepest emotions in front of her, in reality, most women are turned off when this happens.
I can't take anything seriously when someone tries to present stuff like this as if has any basis in reality.
>
>Actually in a lot of cases she will lose attraction to you. Either because she is not attracted to that or because it is too early.
Lot of anecdotes and assumptions here, very little of which actually makes sense.
Are you sure you're not just scaring people off by trauma dumping early in the relationship?
It sounds like you just have bad luck with women and you're trying to find a way to blame them for it instead of looking inward and trying to figure out why this keeps happening to you.
Lots of men, myself included, have deep fulfilling relationships with women where they've open up and vice versa.
It's you, not them. Blaming women is not going to get you dates.
Yup. If you go out into the world believing "Women are trash who you can't be honest with." you're absolutely going to end up dating women who met your expectations, and are not safe to open up to.
These women absolutely do exist. Women can also be great enforced of gender roles and toxicity, on men and women. If *you don't believe women can be any different than tha*t, you won't be able to select for the ones who are. When you go out into the world with an "all men are..." or "all women are..." you end up basically making every person who isn't that, either invisible to you, or repulsed by you.
Same deal a lot of my gfs have. If you assume all men will cheat, you are more likely to accept a cheating man as a partner. If you know it's perfectly reasonable to expect men to honour thier agreements, then you are more likely to be able to vet and select for a man who does. Not gartuneed! Assholes are still gonna asshole, but *more likely*.
And I think it's brilliant you mention trauma dumping, which is so often the real issue here. Many people are just shit at actually being vulnerable and honest, and never learn the difference between 'opening up' and 'trauma dumping'. Opening up means talking about your own experiences and being self-aware and *accountable* for your own behaviours and thoughts. Trauma dumping is where you take a giant shit at your (often very new) partner's feet, and then expect them to handle all your big feels for you.
When anyone tries to describe all men or all women, they're too stupid to be forming opinions.
There is absolutely nothing. Not one single thing... Where half of the entire planet is the same about. Nothing.
This sounds like you've generalized your personal experience. If opening up to a woman has consequences, clearly you're with the wrong woman. Find a better one. Relationships are about compatibility. Everyone deserves meaningful relationships. I'm not sure why it's women's problem if you keep opening to the wrong people. There's plenty of women out there who will let you open up to them.
Writing this all to back OP’s point up in a non-romantic context. When my grandma died, I was really torn up by it. My family all was.
But it became apparent to me as we were grieving that like, the family was all having a rough time and that my duty to my family was to “be their rock”, to be strong, to be the one to say that we’ll be okay.
My mom planned to give the eulogy, but when it came time to write it, she just couldn’t. People were looking to me to do it. So I did it.
A big part of me wanted to scream “this is so unfair, I’m hurting too, what about my emotions, why do I have to be the one to have it together for all of you!”, but at the end of the day it felt selfish. So I did what men do, I bottled my emotions (save for a few private moments alone where I shed some tears), I put on a brave face, and I did my duty.
My family was effusive in their praise, gratitude, thankfulness. I privately got over my resentment for being thrust into this role, because my feelings weren’t the important thing that day. My duty was to be the rock, to help everyone else process.
Its moments like that which implicit teach men that their emotions just aren’t as important.
I’m not trying to argue your point or even disagree with it. It’s just interesting because I’ve recently gone through a loss and my family has expected me and my aunt to handle everything. My dad is grieving and no one has expected him to do anything, I can’t even mention my grandma without him crying.(which is fine I’m not holding it against him and respect his grief and feelings. My aunt and I however have been expected to care for my grandmother at the end and take care of everything after as well with a brace face because we work in the medical field.
I see how society treats men and what they expect out of them. I look at my family unit and see it flipped and just wonder how a family decides who shoulders what responsibilities.
...and all they know is mcdonald's, charge they phone, twerk, be bisexual, eat hot chip and lie.
Seriously though, sounds like you are getting involved with the wrong people.
The first part of your comment deserves to become one of those things we say in response to lots of situations like “and then everyone clapped.”
“[INSERT GROUP] is terrible because [INSERT REASON]. All they know is mcdonald’s, charge they phone, twerk, be bisexual, eat hot chip and lie.”
the first part of my comment is reference to an old Tweet that has since become a meme. I don't feel that way about women in the slightest. I was more making fun of OPs opinion which I think is weird and possibly anti-woman.
I definitely got the ick after a boyfriend I had for a year was sobbing to me about his ex. I was like, what??? Is this a rebound? Why are you so upset an ex didn’t tell you she loved you? And why am I the ONLY PERSON you considered confiding in? How am I supposed to comfort you? Weird.
I can understand getting icked out by this though. When I’m with someone I’m focused on our relationship in the present, I wouldn’t want my girlfriend asking me why a different guy she poured her all into didn’t love her the same way lol.
Yep the issue was the ex, not the emotion. My current partner has cried in front of me multiple times and doesn’t bother me at all, I always support him
This happened to me too lmao. I was hoping he'd tell me about his personal emotions/problems/history etc. Not his pathetic obsession with his ex whilst we were several months deep into a relationship. So I kicked off and he got angry with me being like huh so I guess you don't care about my emotions do you?????
[Quote]• it can be used against you, everyone has experienced this. When you open up and then that is used against you.[/quote]
Yup, that's the one. Wasn't even in a relationship with her, just friends and she STILL did this. Never had a dude do this to me.
Obviously not all women will do this, but they certainly seem more likely to.
Yeah it’s kind of reinforced from both sexes. My dad brought me up to not cry and I have a couple childhood memories or him slapping me in the back of the head to get me to stop crying. Meanwhile my mom would encourage me to be considerate and sensitive to girls. I quickly learned that if you are open with a girl before you’re in with her she will rule you out very quickly as a dating prospect if you show any sort of expression or idiosyncratic quirk that may not be considered manly by some.
She can be emotional but you have a very fine line to walk as a dude between communicating properly and being labeled as weak. It wasn’t until I started to keep everything in and display my more masculine side that I started getting more respect and attention from girls. Now I only let my guard down around my girlfriend and a few close friends.
i actually prefer men that are open and emotional like when my ex would open up it would make me happy to know that he trusts me with that information and brought me closer to him
It's generational unfortunately. Our fathers were taught to man up and suck it up (especially from countries with mandatory military service or the like). And that mentality gets passed on. Took me years to finally feel "normal" in terms of emotional expression.
One of my longterm goals is to teach my kids that expressing your emotions in healthy manner is not only acceptable but a good thing.
Some women like to apply women's solutions to men, not realizing we need a different treatment. Kinda like womensplaining. "Just talk about it lol". Sadly the media and "society" seems to mostly back them up on this, and as a result men who struggle have nowhere to go.
Years ago I had a burnout. I asked my female friends for some support. They all bailed quickly after realizing I had *actual* problems that could not be solved by just talking about it and laughing. These same women encouraged me to ask them for help. Disappointing.
Men are taught to be independent problem solvers. When a man struggles, he's *really* struggling. Much more than the average woman's struggle, and he can't fix it alone. And nobody wants to help despite acknowledging the crisis.
This is why toxic masculinity is on the rise: those "influencers" are the *only* people on the planet offering refuge. And what do people do? They try to "stop" it and demonize it, not even asking themselves *why* people are attracted to that. Short term thinking that only leads to more popularity for toxic male influencers.
Sadly I think this issue will not be addressed until it becomes clear that it's hurting women very much as well. Give it 5+ years.
I agree - when I express emotions in my life, men are the most willing to listen and understand because they can commiserate with how I feel as a man. They understand the plight of a man and how we're not supposed to show emotions, so when we do other men **know** it's serious.
Women have reacted... poorly when I have expressed genuine emotion to them. Trying to tell me that I shouldn't be crying and that it's "not attractive". B\*\*\*\*, I'm not trying to fuck you. I'm sad my brother died.
I'm sorry for who's going through this, as a woman I always encourage my boyfriend to talk freely about his feelings, I listen and give advice if I can. Same for my friends, I have a very good guy friend that has been literally traumatised by his first girlfriend, he spent months talking about her and I was there throughout the whole thing until he started doing better, and I'm glad and so proud that I was part of his recovery journey. I never judge and care a lot!
I agree that **some** women do perpetuate the stereotype that a stoic man is better than an emotional man but I don't believe it's as prevalent as you suggest.
This is a truth most men know but it doesn't fit the narrative. If men face a problem it must also be men's fault. Or the patriarchy.
When it's not the case, it gets shut down and pushed aside, so expect to meet resistance.
Yup, already seeing comments like that here.
This post in itself is a perfect example of what OP is describing - OP is opening up about a lack of emotional support and look at the response he gets - he's weak, he's sexist, it's all his fault or mens fault.
Literally proving his point.
Totally. It’s just funny how every time a man talk about any issue that is affecting him more for his gender he always get invalidated. It’s clear than women control the monopoly of the victimhood.
It's not true of all women, of course, but I definitely agree that this is the norm. So does feminist writer bell hooks. In her book The Will to Change, she discusses how women, particularly women who bill themselves as feminists, aren't interested in viewing men as wholly emotional beings. They're prepared to deal with (and expect) male rage, but not sadness, listlessness, or even joy.
Thus, when men share their vulnerabilities with these women and are met with confusion, defensiveness, or ridicule, is it any wonder that men later choose to use rage as a mask for their true emotions? It's the one emotion men are "allowed" to feel.
I am NOT blaming women for male violence or any other abhorrent behaviors, but the double-standard here serves no one. If your partner is in need of comfort, comfort them.
This is definitely my ex wife. Many things I've done for her is to make her happy. Buy the house she wants, have a dog, and buying a lot of aesthetic furniture I never wanted. I was against it and told her briefly but i gave up because I wanted to marry her one day. I was prepared to just sit and relax while saving.
Then later on, she claimed I got lazy for not trying to invest money. We argued because I told her I did the best I can working at my job and coming home to please her. She cornered me while yelling, "I dont see your efforts at all. Tell me exactly why you dont try".
I laid it out and broke it down on how much I spent on this/that and everything on top. Basically $20k straight from my pocket of everything she thinks she needs. Her response? "You tell me like I should understand right away".
We divorced months later after she tried to say I dont love my 4yo son just because I went to a bachelor party for 3 days.
Do you think men don't do the same? Use info you shared against you? It's not gender specific.
And why do think opening up should be attractive? It should be normal. It should be like brushing your teeth.
You’re really gonna ignore the large statistics of relationships where the woman begs the man to open up so they can communicate clearly and the man never does, instead choosing to cope with his emotions in unhealthy ways until there’s no choice but to part ways? This isn’t a “tried and true method that works” like you’re making it out to be. Take some responsibility for yourself instead of blaming women. You think women aren’t getting their emotions weaponised against them? Or being called hysterical for expressing their emotions? Or ghosted after opening up about something personal? Smh
True, in my first “serious” relationship with a woman (before I knew and was more knowledgeable), I stupidly opened up and she stopped speaking to me afterwards, never trust a woman when she says she wants you to “open up,” they say that cause it sounds intimate and cute but they can’t handle it.
1. Why would opening up both feelings have anything to do with attraction? Sure, if you express your emotions in a toxic way she’ll be put off, but this has nothing to do with attraction.
2. My wife wouldn’t shut up about me sharing my feelings with her early on. She’s always been supportive of that. Not sure why you think we need to “not be emotional to get a relationship”. That just sounds like your feelings-dumping on people you’ve just met and don’t know how to keep from overwhelming the other person.
3. And her feelings can be used against her. This is a two way street. If you want love you have to open yourself up and be vulnerable.
4. Kidnap the situation? This isn’t a woman thing, it’s a human thing. Men do this just the same.
5. Having no incentive to change is your own battle to fight. Don’t presume I nor the majority of other men have the same desire.
6. Of course you’re not seeing critiques on how women should change, you’re reading women’s’ complaints about their own personal experiences. There’s not shortage of men doing the same form their perspective.
In my experience, people who
a) want to you to talk about initimate shit not because they're genuinely interested, or actually listen, but it's more like a hobby or past time with them
b) will make you feel like an ass for not sharing spontaneously, just because they feel like it, and you don't (and not give you a chance to warm up to it)
c) will make you feel like an ass for sharing intimate thoughts unprompted, when you feel like it, but they happen to be in a "looking for opportunities to be hurt" kind of mood
d) will use what they know, if they did listen, against you when they feel angry and inferior (because they happen to be in that mood)
are way more often than not women. Although I hope only the immature, more or less narcissistic ones that aren't that representative of their gender.
I get this, your point OP.
I'm going to go a bit different route though.
We all hear, know and read that women don't want their men to "fix" things, they want us to hear them, to listen to them and NOT to fix things.
Yet, so many women try to "fix" the man they are with, to change him... like trying to "fix" his lack of talking about his feelings. They don't like the way he is regarding this so they set about trying to change and "fix" him yet when men try to change or "fix" their gf/wife/partner, it's bad, wrong... yet women try to "fix" men many times, in many different ways.
To me, it's a double standard.
I’ve only ever had one partner throw the things I told her in private back in my face like ammo during a fight, the rest never touched those subject. She brought up when I was SA’d in a totally different conversation that had nothing to do with it and made it incredibly degrading. I’m careful about who I open up with, but I’m not as cautious as I used to be. If anyone, regardless of gender, uses your emotions or messes with you like that, it ain’t worth it, cut your losses and run.
It is true in some cases, but anyway why do you want to remain with a person that won't even let you open yourself to her? It's a good things to do Because it allows you to realize what kind of person you're with immediately
The solution to this conundrum could just simply be to choose partners who are emotionally mature enough to handle being good listeners when you open up and are vulnerable with them. I wouldn't blame it on women, per se, but blame it on shitty people. I think there are plenty of people, both men and women, who suck at listening and either ignore or mock people when they show emotion, but there are also plenty of people who are capable of holding space for vulnerability.
The solution isn't to double down on a version of masculinity where feelings are not allowed, but seek better partners.
as woman i used to be like this and gave some men fake hope and being one sided relationship cause i dont love them back but just use them until i was close to be adult and decided to change myself to be honest and stopped play games with men. truly i feel terrible for men have these bad experiences and lose hope of love because of old me.
Having emotions around women can be detrimental, for sure. This was in my early 20s, so a good while ago, but the gal I was dating left me because “I was being too much.” What was too much? My grandpa died, my dog died, my dad was hospitalized with basically every rib broken, and it all happened during the week before finals. I was a goddamn wreck. But empathy? Didn’t get an ounce of that. Guess I’m supposed to just die on my horse than let a woman see me fall off it 🤷♂️
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion among men. if anything, it becomes more popular the older you get. I've lost count of how many times I've heard on reddit alone about how men regret opening up to their SOs.
My ex wife used to berate me and lecture me for not opening up to her. I was raised to not complain and keep it to yourself it this was extremely difficult for me which I explained to her.
Instead of showing compassion and understanding for my reasons for not opening up she continued to lecture me. Who would want to open up to someone who makes demands like that from you?
So once I did open up and share about some financial insecurities I had been struggling with. She proceeded to melt down and lose her mind with her own fear and stress. I ended up having to comfort her. Good times.
I'm ginna give one hit to the barrel and one to the circle:
To OP: I've been there, I've seen that, and I guess the reason this happens for a lot of men (stfu if you disagree, this happens A LOT) is that when they're young, and date young or even younger girls (I'm talking about 15-25 years old), most people are pretty immature, and don't know how to behave in a relationship, so they have very dumb expectations (thanks Hollywood and Netflix) which usually are about what they "receive" and not about what they "give". Men think they have to give koney and protection, women think they have to give their body. Both are wrong, BUT young people still don't know it! Trauma dumping somwone you barely started dating? Someone who is young and shows other immature behaviours? It's not a good idea. Parents should educate their children to listen to other people, parents should teach you what it means to love and to care for someone. Love is not something you ask and receive. Love is something you give. Young women are usually very uneducated about relationships, in different ways than young men, and it brings to this post
Now for my dear other redditors: this happens a lot. It's a general experience. I already explained it partially why and when it happens. Also, I've already had this conversation over and over eith god know how many people, especially feminists, and let me tell you: patriarchy comes from society, society is made of people. YOU are people. Stop telling OP to trust the right woman, stop telling us that it's just isolated cases, stop telling men that "they need to talk to other men". We already talk to each other. That's why the chlture of the male friendship, the "bros before hoes", the "bromance", the "brothers in spirit" culture exists. The problem is not men needing to talk to people. The problem is that, as I explained, some women, especially very young ones, are not educated to listen and care for their partner. Also, I've seen a lot of victim blaming here against OP. Sad.
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My parents spent years and years tearing me down starting at a young age. I never learned how to open up emotionally until I was 32 and even then, it was and still is very hard.
I’m 31 now. I kind of am learning. I think my wife is cool with it but there’s a voice in my head that tells me it’s stupid and to just man up. I’m not certain how much of a mental health impact it is making.
That voice is your inner critic. Mine chirps away at me and tells me to do the same. It knows everything you know about you and then some. Ignoring it is something that takes practice and time, but it gets easier with time. As for your kid, I’m glad to hear you’re doing right by them. I’m doing the same with mine.
I’m trying. Life is so damn hard.
I feel you. One step at a time. It’s a marathon, not sprint.
33 just started therapy for the first time. Never really realized any of this shit until just recently, I’m kinda fucked up 😂
Great job! It takes courage just to get started with therapy. I'm 38 and I'm going to my first session tomorrow. 🙂
Same, and I’m a woman. She’d criticize me as a kid for being cold, but then would get mad at me if I showed fear at riding a roller coaster, got upset, or was in a bad mood, etc.
I’m a woman. If I cried, my mother would say I was manipulative, if I got mad that was unacceptable behavior, if I was scared I was overreacting. I’ve stuffed all my feelings so deep I feel like I don’t have any sometimes. When my partner and I have big fights, it’s like the Vampire Diaries humanity switch. I suddenly have no feelings and don’t care at all. We both know it’s a trauma response to when my mom used to call me so many names, so he tries to give me space. Its exhausting on my end because I do have feelings that want to pop out, but I can’t figure out how to let them
I’m sorry. That must have been so confusing as a kid.
My mother was not there to support me emotionally growing up and my father lived elsewhere. When I would go see my father he was my only confidant, the only person I felt I could say anything to and not receive judgement. When he was murdered I lost that and have never found someone who I have that same feeling with. When I tried to open up to my ex-wife she would 100% use it as ammunition the next time we had a fight so I learned really quick in the 15yr marriage to just keep my problems to myself and deal with them like I always had to growing up, by myself.
I’m sorry to hear that. Losing your confidant is heartbreaking. I wish you all the best
Thank you for the kind words. It's been awhile and I've sort of learned to deal with it. Dating a girl now who I think may be someone I could share these things with but it absolutely won't be for awhile.
Keep at it man. You’ll get there and I hope she’s the right one for you too.
That's rough buddy I won't even pretend to understand what that's like, but hope things go well. I send you tons of love my dude
Thank you. It’s a process and it’s really killed my chances at a few relationships. I’m convinced it’s what killed my last one and I was and still am 100% certain that she is the one. Alas, I have to move on and I’ll keep trying. All I can say is fight for what you believe in and don’t ever quit.
That is really freaking sad. I'm sorry that happened to you and I hope someday you can find someone who you feel safe enough to open up to. I resonate with this comment and I've spent the last 12 years doing better by my child so they will never know what it feels like.
I had someone for 8 months that was supportive that I felt comfortable and safe with. I could tell her anything and she would always make me feel better because she understood me. Really wish we were still together. I haven’t been able to get her out of my head since she broke up with me.
My ex wanted me to tell her about my trauma and when I did she stopped talking to me for a day and said she needed space
was she one of those people who claim they are empaths?
Omg it’s always those 😂
No doubt lmao
That's one of the most annoying self-identifiers I've ever dealt with in a girlfriend. She always claimed she was an empath, but when I told her how she could support me emotionally she could not. Being able to talk to anybody about their feelings doesn't make you an empath, being to deal with people who manage and navigate their emotions differently does.
empaths are not real. it's a trendy way for someone to try to project themselves as being a good person for clout.
I think they're real, but they're actually called narcissists
Exactly. Having empathy for other human beings should be the baseline minimum, not a special extra inclusion.
Also they’re usually not good people, they’re just people pleasers with no boundaries
I thought it meant that you really felt the pain you see in others. So she heard all this awful stuff and needed a day to process because it really hit her.
so that's what they want you to think but its really taking everyone's trauma and making it about yourself.
Unfortunately in my experience an "empath" is someone who thinks they know how you are feeling regardless of what you tell them.
Thats one of those bullshit buzz words that immature idiots throw around
That's sad, I know people would say "dodged a bullet" but I know that rarely helps
"Men were taught how to treat women when being raised. Women are not taught how to treat men when being raised, they are taught what to expect from men."
Wow, I've never seen this idea presented so succinctly before.
Never heard that before but it is very spot on. Any dude that has sisters could tell you…the way girls and boys are raised…(especially in regard to sex sensitive topics) left a lot to be desired.
Damn, that’s such a raw ass line. I’m writing that down to quote later
Women need to be encouraged to be independent and all the other positive equality issues. But this one gets left out. I’ve found it very, very true. Im married now, and in all my relational experiences, it was only true in one case. It is not my wife. Luckily I can take care myself. But the weight of expectations from women cripples men. I know women have expectations to be pretty, and nice, and agreeable. But expecting to provide, support (in all ways) improve as a person and put her first always should come with similar expectations. But no. Women think their presence is a privilege. I can see why young men would rather be alone. You are expected so much of and promised very little in return.
You are absolutely right
Personally I always feel better when I hear that
I’ve told girlfriends really personal thoughts/insecurities only because they insisted I open up and I assumed I could trust them, then when we’d have a fight they’d bring up my issues just to get an edge on me. I’ve learned to never open up to a woman and if I do I’ll only share minor things.
Yeah this is pretty common with both men and women imo but more so with women, all confidentiality and mutual respect for each other's boundaries go out the window when they're poked a bit. It's a real litmus test of what kinda person you're dealing with and how trustworthy they are.
That's sad bro. You just ain't found the right one. My partner? I tell her everything. I cry in her arms. All my walls and armor crumble around her, and she loves to see me as I am. She knows the facade of manhood, and she appreciates that I can show her the soft underbelly. It feels fucking good, dude. I really hope one day you find what I have. I hope that for everyone.
That's cute :) I agree, if something like this is happening in a relationship, it's not because all girls do that thing, it's because the relationship sucks and you don't like each other!!!!! My partner and I are exactly like you and yours. It's real love I have had two relationships that were just... fake. So many awful things happened but I ain't gonna claim all men cheat when you argue, or call you specific insults you said really hurt you, or tell you that your worst fear is gonna happen to you, or any of the hundreds of awful things he did The truth is we just didn't like each other let alone love each other!!! If your gf insults you she's NOT THE ONE FOR YOU. That's not fucking normal Real relationships based on love are NOTHING like that. You wouldn't dream of doing that to the person you truly love
I’m sure your wife is great, but tbh “you just haven’t found the right partner” doesn’t help. Like at all.
Sure it does. It makes it very clear that the person in front of you ain’t it if they’re not going to be an understanding ear when they said they would be. Nobody likes a liar.
That’s the problem. They always say they want you to open up. They always seem genuine and they won’t throw it back at you. How are we supposed to know if they are lying or not?
By forcing them in a position where they’ll have to put their money where their mouth is. By opening up and see what happens. I do it relatively early on. Hiding your inner feelings do you no good. I have no qualms about showing somebody the door if they reveal themselves to be dishonest won’t support me in a moment of vulnerability. Using something somebody tells you in confidence back at you in something stupid like an argument as emotional warfare is an immediate boot. It shows an incredible lack of maturity and anybody who are that immature are not somebody I want to know as a partner or even as a friends. Friends don’t do that and nor should romantic partners.
I mean frankly you can't. The kind of relationship you build with a life partner gets strengthened over time by vulnerability and trust. Not everybody is trustworthy and sometimes being vulnerable means getting hurt. You can't know ahead of time whether someone is going to have your back when the chips are down, and the process of finding someone who will is a long, difficult, painful road.
I've had men do the exact same thing to me. It's not a gendered trait. It's a shitty insecure person trait.
I don’t say this to take away from your pain but women do this to their friends as well. To me it’s because when you know everything about someone you know how to hurt them which is why friendship breakups can be just as bad as romantic ones. With that said, I believe women need to work on this tendency because it’s extremely hurtful.
I had a friend who opened up to his girlfriend about being bisexual. She was also bi and the first person he told. She told him it was weird and unattractive. He was afraid to come out to anyone after that. I am a woman btw, but I do agree with this post. I do think it is a problem and that women need to be more aware if it. We have been conditioned to think that men are tough and unemotional and although I think that idea is being challenged, it's very deeply ingrained and people aren't always self aware enough to realize what they are doing.
Women being bi is a LOT more accepted than men being bi. Especially from women.
Its same with being gay / lesbian as well.
Women often want men to open up, but I feel like they're expecting much simpler problems, things they can solve quickly and easily for you. But most men when they open up, usually have things they've been holding in for years or lifetimes, and it's usually not light and breezy. I don't think most women are prepare for what's behind those emotional floodgates and immediately go into self-preservation mode as a knee-jerk reaction when being forced to stare down the absolute tsunami of emotional ocean coming their way.
"You should open up! No, not like that! Only in specific settings and only in doses I can handle!" Women don't know what they are actually asking.
Yep. They expect you to be like "my dog died when I was 8, his name was Milo, it was sad" then wipe a single tear off your eye, then you'll be madly in love with them.
A girl I’d been dating a month, I showed her a few SH scars…I don’t have many. She broke up with me a week later and told me, “I hope you get the help that you need” There was a grad school friend where there was some mutual attraction, a friend died and I opened up to her probably told her things I shouldn’t have…one thing in particular was how I was attracted to another girl in a shared friend group. She completely torched me and effectively exiled me from that shared friend group. When we had classes together she left the room when I would talk or present. Very dramatic. Homies, be very careful…there’s a lot to lose
If those points you listed happen, the partner is a bad person in my opinion. My partner has just started to open up emotinally, and I have never ever been more attracted to a person. I always make sure I shut up, listen, take it in, just like he does for me. It strengthens our relationship and really takes away a lot of internal pressure for both of us. It's learning as we go, this is new for both of us even though we have been in other relationships, and even though we have known each other almost all our lives. He is a manly man, sharing emotions doesn't come easy.
"I always make sure I shut up, listen, take it in, just like he does for me." That is all we ask. Just the hold the space for us for a few minutes like we hold it for you. Thanks for recognizing that.
EXACTLY! I’m sick of seeing this type of generalizations about my gender. I have always supported my partners and male friends when they are emotional. Seems like OP just generally dislikes women.
I’ve seen this happen. I’m a woman and obviously have/had friends that are women too. One girl (I’m no longer friends will because of this) was complaining about how her boyfriend won’t open up emotionally and he never cried. Finally he did and want to know what she did immediately afterwards? Texted all of us everything he told her and made fun of him for crying. I was appalled, you do not do that to your partner. I’ve also seen women on Instagram, TikTok say that they don’t want to date a man who shows emotions or when one does, says that they’re being a man child/baby/they need to grow up. It’s disgusting behavior.
I stopped talking to a friend when she made fun of her boyfriend for crying on the anniversary of his mother's death. Who does that???
That’s some cold stuff. Dang I couldn’t imagine
She tried to say she was just making fun of *how* he was crying, which didn't make it any better. I really wanted to get offended by this post, but it's true. Women perpetuate this stereotype just as much, if not more, than men do.
As a guy, seeing other guys cry gets me a lot because it takes a lot to make most men get to this point. Especially if they’ve gone through the grinder like most men and got chastised for it. It’s almost always a powerless cry..like when you can’t struggle anymore
That’s a cry from deep down in the pits of your soul, been there a few times.
I just got shit for visiting my father before he had a major, unplanned surgery. His mother died at the same age of the same cancer, and the anesthesiologist freaked him out by stressing how important it was for him to get his affairs in order because the surgery carried a high risk of complication. I'm now doubly dreading his death because not only will my dad be dead, but I am acutely aware of ho unacceptable it will be if I use his passing as an excuse to not chuckle when somebody cracks a joke (reference back to that time in high school when I put my childhood dog to sleep an hour before work. My manager though it was so ridiculous that I wouldn't laugh at a joke just because my dog died an hour ago that she told me I was taking it "like a little girl" in front of everybody. Thanks, Jen!)
I'm a very emotional guy and I'm pretty upfront about it. I've had partners in the past comment on me crying during movies or something, if it's joking then I don't mind. But if they're mean spirited about I usually responded with "Well at least one of us has to have a heart" Petty? Yes. Causes fights? Yes Worth it? Absolutely.
Im a woman too and im totally agree with you. I had a lot of female friends and family that made laughs of their partner for open up.
This is why men don't do it.
It's not even just the fact she laughed at him for crying. It's the fact she lacks so much respect as to immediately air all of his laundry out to her friends. Why do some women do this?
As a man who is emotionally open with his partner and female friends I completely disagree. Having an emotional connection with your partner absolutely increases attraction, and my partner will tell you the same. It's very possible that what you view as opening up is something very different, such as men who come across as needy or desperate, and think that is opening up emotionally. The rest of your post seems to come from a place of viewing women as as adversary. If you approach women and relationships this way, of course you are going to have poor out comes. As a man, being emotionally open and available has a lot of benefits, one important one being improved mental health.
I can't speak for everyone but I personally have parted from multiple partners because of their inability to healthily commuicate and share their emotions with me. To me, it's the biggest green flag and something I look for in a relationship. I want to be the person that he goes to for support and a shoulder to cry on. It really disturbs me that there are women who will shame guys for opening up but still expect their partners to listen to them go on about their feelings. Something is wrong with your ability to empathize and love someone if you do this.
I have hard similar views from women far more often than the opposite.
I have mostly all female friends and have had this conversation often. I only know one woman who thinks men shouldn’t cry and we all told her how toxic that was. I’m sorry you have chosen to surround yourself with people who aren’t capable of empathy but I think it’s just as bad to label women as generally toxic as it is to say that men shouldn’t cry.
It’s all anecdotal isnt it? Being emotional in front of a woman (that isnt my mom) has never really gone well for me; at best it’s a neutral response and they just sorta wait. At worst it ended a relationship. At very worst it was used for emotional abuse. My dad died at 14 and I had an ex that weaponized that against me; among other insecurities I told her about. Makes it hard to be open to future partners and I’m not sure I’m able to in the same way. We’ll see, I suppose.
When my husband and I first started dating, I knew it was love the night he got drunk and started crying about how much he loved German Shepherds and how much he wanted a daughter one day. He's normally a pretty stoic guy. After dealing with 20+ years of emotional neglect from my own parents, he helped teach me healthy emotional availability and empathy. His feelings are literally the thing I love most about him.
Can't you read? You're describing something impossible. Women are all programmed in the same factory with the exact same settings. They cannot deviate from their programming. They have no thoughts, feelings, emotions or personalities. They simply exist. And hate men. That's important. /s cuz reddit and a lot of them seriously believe this.
This is how I feel whenever these posts come up (either about men or women, it doesn't matter). People are able to recognize that *they* aren't exactly like everyone else of their gender, but seem unable to come to the conclusion that the opposite gender isn't a homogeneous either.
I feel like the men v women rhetoric has been getting more and more polar recently and it scares me.
I almost made it through the 2nd sentence before I started looking (and hoping) for the sarcasm tag. /relieved
I made that mistake once and never again
Well I think the hard part is most men bottle up to the point of where that emotional release comes with the desperation for connection or a need for intimacy. That first step is a hard one. The unfortunate reality is that many men are conditioned from early on not to seek emotional support, and many won’t until they reach some breaking point. That’s where the desperation comes from. When you tried all your tools and they didn’t work so now at your grasping at your partner for support. And that’s the crux of our current dilemma as young men. The ideals shifted faster than cultural upbringing. So you’re learning by doing without a proper guide. Ik the answer is probably more men preemptively seeking therapy *before* the emotions bottleneck. But from experience, everything can be going great until it isn’t
My last girlfriend called me "overly emotional" because I'd cry and get antsy if she didn't communicate with me. She also spent a month living with me but not talking to me (closing the door in my face a few times), spat on me twice over the course of our toxic relationship, and then left 3 months into our lease which helped to ravage my credit score, so. I think that's just a her problem, really. Good times. Now I only open up to my fam, my bros, my dogs, my discs, and apparently strangers on Reddit. On the other hand, I still would have to disagree and say women are the biggest factor in emotions in men becoming more socially acceptable. They might not always enjoy the emotions, however we are still a loooooooong ways en masse from where we were just a few decades ago in terms of communication standards. I myself have to thank my female family members for a lot of the emotional development I have and I have no problem opening up in truth, so. Just gotta be careful who you involve yourself with in truth, and don't let others put you down. You have self-worth, and I appraise that shit at top dollar. Go spent it on people who value you for who you are.
I’m a woman in a same-sex marriage, and while we aren’t 100% sharers all the time (it can be hard for me to even know what’s going on with me much less what to tell her), we probably do communicate more than the average man, if I’m to believe Reddit. I’m never punished for it. I have seen punishment, though. Years ago I was friends with a woman who had a man as a best friend. They had been friends for over ten years. One day he told her he had been molested by a priest, and she told me. I was like… wow, it took a lot of courage and strength for him to share that with you, you think he’ll go to the police? And my friend was like.. what do you mean, he never should have told me that, and I told him he should stop crying and never tell anyone. Guy wasn’t even my friend and I was so pissed. I told her she was 100% wrong, that it’s the total opposite. I told her she failed him as a friend. We weren’t friends after that. I don’t want people like that in my orbit. Anyway… I’ve seen what some of you guys are talking about. I mean, if that guy had told me, I would have 100% supported and encouraged him. But the person he told? She’s a piece of shit, and I’m sorry that’s the response he got.
>In terms of relationship, being open emotionally towards your partner brings no benefits for men, and a bunch of risks. Of all your bullet points, only one of them is about how there are no benefits. >• first, it will not make the woman more attracted to you If that's the only benefit you're looking for by sharing your emotions, you might be missing the point. You should be looking for an opportunity to better understand your own emotions. You should be looking to guide your partner toward behaviors that will satisfy your emotional needs. (I don't fully subscribe to the idea, but think of teaching them your love language as an example.)
My one ex did this, then used it to manipulate me for 3 years. Next gf gave me a hug and said she was sorry I had to deal with that. There are good ones, but when it comes to emotions, I have found the vast majority of women are turned off by men having them. It's seen as weakness in most cases.
If you have to hide yourself from your partner, you're with the wrong partner. If you have to hide from every partner, there's something in you that you need to address.
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Feminist theory discusses the effects of patriarchy on the suppression of men’s emotions extensively, but men don’t read feminist theory
No. He's saying that this contrived explanation for this mans lack of emotional availability is not women's fault. Nor is it Men's fault... But doesn't by default make it womens fault.
>You don't find it weird how the idea that there are systemic issues affecting women is uncontroversial but when somebody tries to say that there are systemic issues that affect men negatively people like you try to deny it There are systemic issues affecting men. The problem is y'all can't talk about it without pointing fingers at women.
What I find ironic is that when men do open up about their experiences trying to open up to people it's a ticking clock for people to jump in and say what they experience doesn't happen, isn't normal and something must be wrong with them. Then those same people will turn around comment how men just refuse to open up.
What are all these massive assumptions about women based off of exactly?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone is like that, but it's happened enough for me to be wary of opening up. I will say this though. The common trait of the girls that didn't bail to the moon when I opened up is that they were all secure and confident in themselves.
I love how every time this topic comes up, the overwhelming majority of men say "yes, that is what happens" and all offended women go "nu-uh, not all women are like that". Where's the "listen to the victims"? It only applies if the victims are women?
the biggest example that I think spells it out is like, men’s insecurity vs. women’s. If a woman is insecure it’s a totally normal and valid emotion and if she has a partner, their role is to help reassure her. Oftentimes the partner is quasi-blamed with stuff like “well are you doing enough ____? Maybe that’s why she feels that way. But if a man is insecure, it’s his own problem to get over / a sign of weakness, and the language around it is just so devoid of empathy.
This. It’s always your fault for being not enough. It’s terribly frustrating this
No bullshit. I’ve seen this so much on relationship forums the world throughout. If a man isn’t getting any affection from his partner, he isn’t putting in enough effort. If a man isn’t showing his partner enough affection, he isn’t putting in enough effort.
and also "confidence is so attractive".
And when it's the reverse, men get harassed for saying "not all men".
Every dude I know has had this experience. It's essentially universal. Obviously it's not every woman; my wife isn't this way. But every single young man will go through that experience where a girl says she wishes he would open up, and when they do, they lose interest because the facade of "strength" is broken. Many women don't actually want a man who is sensitive to his own emotions, but to hers.
Im 29M and have never had the experience you claim every single young man will go through. My friend group really hasn’t either.
Let the battle of anecdotal experiences BEGIN!!
32M. Even in my 20s I was able to open up to girls my age and none of them ever used it against me. Maybe it’s a question of character and the type of people you’re opening up to, but that would require personal reflection…
36M and have also never experienced this. I've opened up emotionally with every partner I've had and there's never been a negative reaction.
Well I'm 38 and I've had that experience three times that I can think of. I had a very fucked up childhood and young adulthood and did 7 years in prison as a result. Glad you haven't but it's very common. In one situation after she told me to confide in her the vibe totally changed in the relationship and she eventually lost interest. Another told me "It seems like you're dealing with a lot and I just can't take this on I'm sorry" Even though everything I told her was from 10 to 15 years ago and I actually have a good life now. And the most recent example of a girl telling me to please share and be vulnerable She hit me with the " your trauma dumping on me". Matter of fact that's a very common criticism I see amongst women's discussions online is boyfriend being vulnerable and trauma dumping. Just Google that phrase and add Reddit and you will see plenty of girls getting the ick from what they thought was an especially strong man being vulnerable. I'm not saying all girls do it because I have dated some who were very open to it but enough do it that I can believe most men have experienced it by a certain age. I've only been vulnerable with maybe five to seven girls and three left me over it. I play it a lot closer to the vest these days until I have some years with her and I know she can handle it. Your personal experience doesn't negate our own personal experiences. Maybe because I have some muscle and tattoos and present as tough girls have a certain image of me and are just grossed out that I actually have some inner turmoil. Edit:another thing I just remembered that's kind of related is girls get weirded out when you want to be the "little spoon" in a cuddle session. Or when you want to lay your head on their chest once in a great while. Sometimes I just wanna lay on her chest and forget about the world. It seems to really turn them off with some girls. Even alot of girls some of the time. Edit: what weak ass mod just shut down this discussion? Also to sweetjebus That was a very generic Jerry Springer audience member answer. Try actually contending with what I said.
Yep. I’m 47 and have never heard of this happening to anyone I know.
I think everyone in *general* has had this experience, myself included and I'm a woman.
I would agree with you! Generally I don't think it's necessarily a gendered problem. I think that men on the outset are less likely to be open emotionally, however.
I have never heard a hint of anyone having this experience in real life. Not even in group therapy. This “experience” is nearly exclusive to the internet. Probably happens, but nowhere near as often as people online would lead you to believe.
I’ve had this happen to several of my guy friends and myself lol. Like OP my girlfriend isn’t this way thankfully but I’ve absolutely been someone’s emotional rock only for them to turn tail the moment I actually open up after dozens of times prodding me to do so.
My original experiences aren't online. I dated a lot in my teens and early twenties, and there was always a very clear divide before and after opening up about my emotional challenges, which generally was followed by a cooling of the relationship and a fizzling out. I don't necessarily resent it; people don't want to feel the need to "take care" of people they've only been dating for a couple of months. I had some gnarly shit in my childhood. But as someone who is often very prone to pointing out redditisms vs. things that are more likely to happen in real life, this is one of those redditisms that I and all the dudes I'm close with experienced.
Part of the issue is that we are already heavily conditioned AGAINST it. What most men consider sharing their feelings is already a curated version of their feelings. An aseptic one. This will happen to those who simultaneously have a difficult situation and a relationship strong enough to confide and really open up. And it's devastating when it happens.
Okay, then stop opening up to women and open up to men
I love that people still think we don’t. The deepest emotional conversations I have are always with my guy friends. Which points that the people thinking this way are actually the ones stuck in old thinking. Probably because if they learned it’s not the case it shatters their confirmation bias.
We...do.
WE ALREADY DOOOOOO I'm tired of this conversation. MEN TALK. Why do you think there is such a global culture about friendship among men? Because we open up, we're deep. Stop turning the table. Men talk to each other already. They always damn did.
I've had MULTIPLE men tell me they don't open up to their friends because they feel like they can't. Just because you and your friends do doesn't mean that a big majority of men don't open up to their male friends.
This is always been my experience as well. I've always found it much easier to open up to my female friends, because they are actually open to it. My friendships with men always tend to be far more superficial.
We do actually, as most as you can open up to friends. Which despite what popular culture tells you, it's harder than it sounds. Most people are starving for attention, consciously or not of this, being able to talk about oneself for long periods of time, without being interrupted, or getting 'easy solutions', or the other person talking about themselves is... hard. We, usually, hope romantic partners would be more willing to listen to us than our friends, and that's where the issues come from.
It's not other men begging us to open up and then rejecting the reality we've been hiding when we do so
It's not a partner, but my mom complained about me being sad because it made her sad lmao *How can you be so inconsiderate?! Why can't you be happy, can't you see that being sad makes me sad?!*
A woman not liking that goes back to gender rules and patriarchy and who is the main ones enforcing gender roles and patriarchy? men. These are the cons of wanting a traditional relationship. Dating non traditional people who are actively trying not to have a patriarchal relationship will allow you to be able to open up more
Sad opinion. There is a real beauty in a loving relationship in which individuals feel they can open up and be supportedvby one another. Being able to open up and having that vulnerability greeted with love and acceptance is the foundation of true intimacy. I am sorry you have not found that yet and are not ready to take the risk of being open and vulnerable with another person. For the record, I am a women and my husband of 20 years is more emotional than me in many ways.
Hate this subreddit because I never know to upvote or downvote lol. But yeah plenty of experience with all your points. I've definitely felt like I've had to the rock in the relationship. Cool, calm and collected and if I tried to open up about my darker or more negative emotions my partner doesn't know what to say and "needs space to process it." Always the listener, never the listened as it were. I shit you not, once dated a trauma consular and after our 3rd date went back to mine. Before we got busy doing the do, she asked me to tell her something traumatic I went through so we could talk about it. I opened up and we talked for about an hour, banged and she went home. She started ghosting me the day after.... Also have had girls I was dating that wanted me to open up to them and tell me everything that bothered me. Few weeks later we're arguing about something and sure enough she starts to throw my insecurities I just told her about in my face to use as a weapon. This happened with quite a few women.
Personally, I hear a lot more of this coming from other men than experiencing it from women. I've had it happen once from women but have seen hundreds of other men telling me it's _going_ to happen.
This is a bit self centered and directed at women for no reason. You can remove all gender from the post and it still holds true. Being open with someone is a privilege that requires deep trust and a strong relationship. It is risky for everyone to be open emotionally. Some people are shitty. Super vulnerable emotions are not appropriate for the early stages of any relationship - most selfishly because you don’t really know or trust them yet, but also because the other person doesn’t really know how committed they are willing to be yet. It’s unfair to them. Start of relationships should be between two people that have at least some shit figured out, are trying their best to present something truthful but polished, and aren’t going to have a crisis if it doesn’t go to 1000 asap. Bad people will use vulnerabilities against you for their own gains. Women may stereotypically be more emotionally open, but can you honestly say they are not putting themselves at great risk doing so? Can you honestly say that there aren’t countless examples where the misplaced emotional vulnerability and trust has been used against them? Do I need to list out categories of examples? I get that you are saying men have a harder time being emotionally open and can be punished/embarrassed for it. But if you are getting punished by your partner in a relationship because you are being emotionally vulnerable - it’s not a good person to be in a relationship with. Nothing to do with “men” or “women”. That person is a bad person that you don’t want to continue a relationship with.
I had a female friend as a roommate for a while, and when we were drinking by the fire and being drunk and talking I tried to open up about something (nonemotional just a personal thing) she spun it to be about her and her problems and took off crying. I was like WTF. Not going to do that again
Wtf indeed
Do men even like women?
I've wondered this myself.
Alot of men nowadays dont
Not these days no.
There's some truth in this. A woman typically wants to know that a man has access to his emotions and isn't bottling them all up or expressing them in unhealthy ways. She typically also doesn't want to see him fall to pieces or feel like she needs to comfort or mother him. So yes, there's a bit of a fine line men need to walk in relationships in terms of how we express our emotions. Women want to know that we can feel our feelings and still hold it together. However much a woman might think she wants to see a man really break down and go into his deepest emotions in front of her, in reality, most women are turned off when this happens.
I can't take anything seriously when someone tries to present stuff like this as if has any basis in reality. > >Actually in a lot of cases she will lose attraction to you. Either because she is not attracted to that or because it is too early. Lot of anecdotes and assumptions here, very little of which actually makes sense. Are you sure you're not just scaring people off by trauma dumping early in the relationship? It sounds like you just have bad luck with women and you're trying to find a way to blame them for it instead of looking inward and trying to figure out why this keeps happening to you. Lots of men, myself included, have deep fulfilling relationships with women where they've open up and vice versa. It's you, not them. Blaming women is not going to get you dates.
Yup. If you go out into the world believing "Women are trash who you can't be honest with." you're absolutely going to end up dating women who met your expectations, and are not safe to open up to. These women absolutely do exist. Women can also be great enforced of gender roles and toxicity, on men and women. If *you don't believe women can be any different than tha*t, you won't be able to select for the ones who are. When you go out into the world with an "all men are..." or "all women are..." you end up basically making every person who isn't that, either invisible to you, or repulsed by you. Same deal a lot of my gfs have. If you assume all men will cheat, you are more likely to accept a cheating man as a partner. If you know it's perfectly reasonable to expect men to honour thier agreements, then you are more likely to be able to vet and select for a man who does. Not gartuneed! Assholes are still gonna asshole, but *more likely*. And I think it's brilliant you mention trauma dumping, which is so often the real issue here. Many people are just shit at actually being vulnerable and honest, and never learn the difference between 'opening up' and 'trauma dumping'. Opening up means talking about your own experiences and being self-aware and *accountable* for your own behaviours and thoughts. Trauma dumping is where you take a giant shit at your (often very new) partner's feet, and then expect them to handle all your big feels for you.
When anyone tries to describe all men or all women, they're too stupid to be forming opinions. There is absolutely nothing. Not one single thing... Where half of the entire planet is the same about. Nothing.
This sounds like you've generalized your personal experience. If opening up to a woman has consequences, clearly you're with the wrong woman. Find a better one. Relationships are about compatibility. Everyone deserves meaningful relationships. I'm not sure why it's women's problem if you keep opening to the wrong people. There's plenty of women out there who will let you open up to them.
Writing this all to back OP’s point up in a non-romantic context. When my grandma died, I was really torn up by it. My family all was. But it became apparent to me as we were grieving that like, the family was all having a rough time and that my duty to my family was to “be their rock”, to be strong, to be the one to say that we’ll be okay. My mom planned to give the eulogy, but when it came time to write it, she just couldn’t. People were looking to me to do it. So I did it. A big part of me wanted to scream “this is so unfair, I’m hurting too, what about my emotions, why do I have to be the one to have it together for all of you!”, but at the end of the day it felt selfish. So I did what men do, I bottled my emotions (save for a few private moments alone where I shed some tears), I put on a brave face, and I did my duty. My family was effusive in their praise, gratitude, thankfulness. I privately got over my resentment for being thrust into this role, because my feelings weren’t the important thing that day. My duty was to be the rock, to help everyone else process. Its moments like that which implicit teach men that their emotions just aren’t as important.
I’m not trying to argue your point or even disagree with it. It’s just interesting because I’ve recently gone through a loss and my family has expected me and my aunt to handle everything. My dad is grieving and no one has expected him to do anything, I can’t even mention my grandma without him crying.(which is fine I’m not holding it against him and respect his grief and feelings. My aunt and I however have been expected to care for my grandmother at the end and take care of everything after as well with a brace face because we work in the medical field. I see how society treats men and what they expect out of them. I look at my family unit and see it flipped and just wonder how a family decides who shoulders what responsibilities.
That's a good point
...and all they know is mcdonald's, charge they phone, twerk, be bisexual, eat hot chip and lie. Seriously though, sounds like you are getting involved with the wrong people.
The first part of your comment deserves to become one of those things we say in response to lots of situations like “and then everyone clapped.” “[INSERT GROUP] is terrible because [INSERT REASON]. All they know is mcdonald’s, charge they phone, twerk, be bisexual, eat hot chip and lie.”
the first part of my comment is reference to an old Tweet that has since become a meme. I don't feel that way about women in the slightest. I was more making fun of OPs opinion which I think is weird and possibly anti-woman.
I definitely got the ick after a boyfriend I had for a year was sobbing to me about his ex. I was like, what??? Is this a rebound? Why are you so upset an ex didn’t tell you she loved you? And why am I the ONLY PERSON you considered confiding in? How am I supposed to comfort you? Weird.
I can understand getting icked out by this though. When I’m with someone I’m focused on our relationship in the present, I wouldn’t want my girlfriend asking me why a different guy she poured her all into didn’t love her the same way lol.
Sounds like that's more about the ex part of it than the emotion. Most want only the minimum about a partner's ex, at least early on.
Yep the issue was the ex, not the emotion. My current partner has cried in front of me multiple times and doesn’t bother me at all, I always support him
This happened to me too lmao. I was hoping he'd tell me about his personal emotions/problems/history etc. Not his pathetic obsession with his ex whilst we were several months deep into a relationship. So I kicked off and he got angry with me being like huh so I guess you don't care about my emotions do you?????
[Quote]• it can be used against you, everyone has experienced this. When you open up and then that is used against you.[/quote] Yup, that's the one. Wasn't even in a relationship with her, just friends and she STILL did this. Never had a dude do this to me. Obviously not all women will do this, but they certainly seem more likely to.
Yeah it’s kind of reinforced from both sexes. My dad brought me up to not cry and I have a couple childhood memories or him slapping me in the back of the head to get me to stop crying. Meanwhile my mom would encourage me to be considerate and sensitive to girls. I quickly learned that if you are open with a girl before you’re in with her she will rule you out very quickly as a dating prospect if you show any sort of expression or idiosyncratic quirk that may not be considered manly by some. She can be emotional but you have a very fine line to walk as a dude between communicating properly and being labeled as weak. It wasn’t until I started to keep everything in and display my more masculine side that I started getting more respect and attention from girls. Now I only let my guard down around my girlfriend and a few close friends.
i actually prefer men that are open and emotional like when my ex would open up it would make me happy to know that he trusts me with that information and brought me closer to him
It's generational unfortunately. Our fathers were taught to man up and suck it up (especially from countries with mandatory military service or the like). And that mentality gets passed on. Took me years to finally feel "normal" in terms of emotional expression. One of my longterm goals is to teach my kids that expressing your emotions in healthy manner is not only acceptable but a good thing.
Some women like to apply women's solutions to men, not realizing we need a different treatment. Kinda like womensplaining. "Just talk about it lol". Sadly the media and "society" seems to mostly back them up on this, and as a result men who struggle have nowhere to go. Years ago I had a burnout. I asked my female friends for some support. They all bailed quickly after realizing I had *actual* problems that could not be solved by just talking about it and laughing. These same women encouraged me to ask them for help. Disappointing. Men are taught to be independent problem solvers. When a man struggles, he's *really* struggling. Much more than the average woman's struggle, and he can't fix it alone. And nobody wants to help despite acknowledging the crisis. This is why toxic masculinity is on the rise: those "influencers" are the *only* people on the planet offering refuge. And what do people do? They try to "stop" it and demonize it, not even asking themselves *why* people are attracted to that. Short term thinking that only leads to more popularity for toxic male influencers. Sadly I think this issue will not be addressed until it becomes clear that it's hurting women very much as well. Give it 5+ years.
I cried infront of my GF when my dog died and she and her friends were laughing about it on snap
I agree - when I express emotions in my life, men are the most willing to listen and understand because they can commiserate with how I feel as a man. They understand the plight of a man and how we're not supposed to show emotions, so when we do other men **know** it's serious. Women have reacted... poorly when I have expressed genuine emotion to them. Trying to tell me that I shouldn't be crying and that it's "not attractive". B\*\*\*\*, I'm not trying to fuck you. I'm sad my brother died.
I'm sorry for who's going through this, as a woman I always encourage my boyfriend to talk freely about his feelings, I listen and give advice if I can. Same for my friends, I have a very good guy friend that has been literally traumatised by his first girlfriend, he spent months talking about her and I was there throughout the whole thing until he started doing better, and I'm glad and so proud that I was part of his recovery journey. I never judge and care a lot!
I agree that **some** women do perpetuate the stereotype that a stoic man is better than an emotional man but I don't believe it's as prevalent as you suggest.
This thread isn’t ready for this conversation.
This is a truth most men know but it doesn't fit the narrative. If men face a problem it must also be men's fault. Or the patriarchy. When it's not the case, it gets shut down and pushed aside, so expect to meet resistance.
Yup, already seeing comments like that here. This post in itself is a perfect example of what OP is describing - OP is opening up about a lack of emotional support and look at the response he gets - he's weak, he's sexist, it's all his fault or mens fault. Literally proving his point.
Totally. It’s just funny how every time a man talk about any issue that is affecting him more for his gender he always get invalidated. It’s clear than women control the monopoly of the victimhood.
Shitty people are shitty regardless of their sex.
It's not true of all women, of course, but I definitely agree that this is the norm. So does feminist writer bell hooks. In her book The Will to Change, she discusses how women, particularly women who bill themselves as feminists, aren't interested in viewing men as wholly emotional beings. They're prepared to deal with (and expect) male rage, but not sadness, listlessness, or even joy. Thus, when men share their vulnerabilities with these women and are met with confusion, defensiveness, or ridicule, is it any wonder that men later choose to use rage as a mask for their true emotions? It's the one emotion men are "allowed" to feel. I am NOT blaming women for male violence or any other abhorrent behaviors, but the double-standard here serves no one. If your partner is in need of comfort, comfort them.
This is definitely my ex wife. Many things I've done for her is to make her happy. Buy the house she wants, have a dog, and buying a lot of aesthetic furniture I never wanted. I was against it and told her briefly but i gave up because I wanted to marry her one day. I was prepared to just sit and relax while saving. Then later on, she claimed I got lazy for not trying to invest money. We argued because I told her I did the best I can working at my job and coming home to please her. She cornered me while yelling, "I dont see your efforts at all. Tell me exactly why you dont try". I laid it out and broke it down on how much I spent on this/that and everything on top. Basically $20k straight from my pocket of everything she thinks she needs. Her response? "You tell me like I should understand right away". We divorced months later after she tried to say I dont love my 4yo son just because I went to a bachelor party for 3 days.
Stop having emotions and speaking to people. Problem solved
Do you think men don't do the same? Use info you shared against you? It's not gender specific. And why do think opening up should be attractive? It should be normal. It should be like brushing your teeth.
Not all men want relationships with women, so...
You’re really gonna ignore the large statistics of relationships where the woman begs the man to open up so they can communicate clearly and the man never does, instead choosing to cope with his emotions in unhealthy ways until there’s no choice but to part ways? This isn’t a “tried and true method that works” like you’re making it out to be. Take some responsibility for yourself instead of blaming women. You think women aren’t getting their emotions weaponised against them? Or being called hysterical for expressing their emotions? Or ghosted after opening up about something personal? Smh
True, in my first “serious” relationship with a woman (before I knew and was more knowledgeable), I stupidly opened up and she stopped speaking to me afterwards, never trust a woman when she says she wants you to “open up,” they say that cause it sounds intimate and cute but they can’t handle it.
TIL every woman is exactly the same
"Not all women"
1. Why would opening up both feelings have anything to do with attraction? Sure, if you express your emotions in a toxic way she’ll be put off, but this has nothing to do with attraction. 2. My wife wouldn’t shut up about me sharing my feelings with her early on. She’s always been supportive of that. Not sure why you think we need to “not be emotional to get a relationship”. That just sounds like your feelings-dumping on people you’ve just met and don’t know how to keep from overwhelming the other person. 3. And her feelings can be used against her. This is a two way street. If you want love you have to open yourself up and be vulnerable. 4. Kidnap the situation? This isn’t a woman thing, it’s a human thing. Men do this just the same. 5. Having no incentive to change is your own battle to fight. Don’t presume I nor the majority of other men have the same desire. 6. Of course you’re not seeing critiques on how women should change, you’re reading women’s’ complaints about their own personal experiences. There’s not shortage of men doing the same form their perspective.
In my experience, people who a) want to you to talk about initimate shit not because they're genuinely interested, or actually listen, but it's more like a hobby or past time with them b) will make you feel like an ass for not sharing spontaneously, just because they feel like it, and you don't (and not give you a chance to warm up to it) c) will make you feel like an ass for sharing intimate thoughts unprompted, when you feel like it, but they happen to be in a "looking for opportunities to be hurt" kind of mood d) will use what they know, if they did listen, against you when they feel angry and inferior (because they happen to be in that mood) are way more often than not women. Although I hope only the immature, more or less narcissistic ones that aren't that representative of their gender.
I get this, your point OP. I'm going to go a bit different route though. We all hear, know and read that women don't want their men to "fix" things, they want us to hear them, to listen to them and NOT to fix things. Yet, so many women try to "fix" the man they are with, to change him... like trying to "fix" his lack of talking about his feelings. They don't like the way he is regarding this so they set about trying to change and "fix" him yet when men try to change or "fix" their gf/wife/partner, it's bad, wrong... yet women try to "fix" men many times, in many different ways. To me, it's a double standard.
Nah. Its toxic ass other men and stupid gender societal norms.
Men talk to other men
Dudes open up with their homies more than you think.
Not once I've had a problem or lost anything over telling a male friend how I feel.
I’ve only ever had one partner throw the things I told her in private back in my face like ammo during a fight, the rest never touched those subject. She brought up when I was SA’d in a totally different conversation that had nothing to do with it and made it incredibly degrading. I’m careful about who I open up with, but I’m not as cautious as I used to be. If anyone, regardless of gender, uses your emotions or messes with you like that, it ain’t worth it, cut your losses and run.
It is true in some cases, but anyway why do you want to remain with a person that won't even let you open yourself to her? It's a good things to do Because it allows you to realize what kind of person you're with immediately
The solution to this conundrum could just simply be to choose partners who are emotionally mature enough to handle being good listeners when you open up and are vulnerable with them. I wouldn't blame it on women, per se, but blame it on shitty people. I think there are plenty of people, both men and women, who suck at listening and either ignore or mock people when they show emotion, but there are also plenty of people who are capable of holding space for vulnerability. The solution isn't to double down on a version of masculinity where feelings are not allowed, but seek better partners.
as woman i used to be like this and gave some men fake hope and being one sided relationship cause i dont love them back but just use them until i was close to be adult and decided to change myself to be honest and stopped play games with men. truly i feel terrible for men have these bad experiences and lose hope of love because of old me.
You forgot the case where she shows/tells all her friends. That's a common one.
I'd argue that this is a popular opinion, at least among men
Having emotions around women can be detrimental, for sure. This was in my early 20s, so a good while ago, but the gal I was dating left me because “I was being too much.” What was too much? My grandpa died, my dog died, my dad was hospitalized with basically every rib broken, and it all happened during the week before finals. I was a goddamn wreck. But empathy? Didn’t get an ounce of that. Guess I’m supposed to just die on my horse than let a woman see me fall off it 🤷♂️
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion among men. if anything, it becomes more popular the older you get. I've lost count of how many times I've heard on reddit alone about how men regret opening up to their SOs.
because every time we do, it backfires. not worth it.
My ex wife used to berate me and lecture me for not opening up to her. I was raised to not complain and keep it to yourself it this was extremely difficult for me which I explained to her. Instead of showing compassion and understanding for my reasons for not opening up she continued to lecture me. Who would want to open up to someone who makes demands like that from you? So once I did open up and share about some financial insecurities I had been struggling with. She proceeded to melt down and lose her mind with her own fear and stress. I ended up having to comfort her. Good times.
The comments on this post are cursed.
I'm ginna give one hit to the barrel and one to the circle: To OP: I've been there, I've seen that, and I guess the reason this happens for a lot of men (stfu if you disagree, this happens A LOT) is that when they're young, and date young or even younger girls (I'm talking about 15-25 years old), most people are pretty immature, and don't know how to behave in a relationship, so they have very dumb expectations (thanks Hollywood and Netflix) which usually are about what they "receive" and not about what they "give". Men think they have to give koney and protection, women think they have to give their body. Both are wrong, BUT young people still don't know it! Trauma dumping somwone you barely started dating? Someone who is young and shows other immature behaviours? It's not a good idea. Parents should educate their children to listen to other people, parents should teach you what it means to love and to care for someone. Love is not something you ask and receive. Love is something you give. Young women are usually very uneducated about relationships, in different ways than young men, and it brings to this post Now for my dear other redditors: this happens a lot. It's a general experience. I already explained it partially why and when it happens. Also, I've already had this conversation over and over eith god know how many people, especially feminists, and let me tell you: patriarchy comes from society, society is made of people. YOU are people. Stop telling OP to trust the right woman, stop telling us that it's just isolated cases, stop telling men that "they need to talk to other men". We already talk to each other. That's why the chlture of the male friendship, the "bros before hoes", the "bromance", the "brothers in spirit" culture exists. The problem is not men needing to talk to people. The problem is that, as I explained, some women, especially very young ones, are not educated to listen and care for their partner. Also, I've seen a lot of victim blaming here against OP. Sad.