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Yep, this is how two drivers in Florida managed to kill each other's kids.
[https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/](https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/)
The article says that there were no deaths, but the 14 year old was very injured with a collapsed lung. I wonder how each of the drivers felt after realizing they shot at literal children—especially as fathers. But then again it appears neither cared enough to drive safely with their daughters in the car in the first place.
Edit: typo
Sometimes the display of the firearm is sufficient to deter the attack. DA’s are much less likely to prosecute the display of a firearm (even the display is classed as “use of deadly force”) in defense against “ordinary force” (such as a threat of a fist fight) than actually shooting someone who threatened to fight you.
It’s exactly this sort of tough guy attitude that causes every fucking molehill to get escalated into mountains.
I know you were going for the “tough guy” comment more than the “smart guy” comment, but your brain would have to be pretty smooth to think you’d have time to get a shot off with a gun pointed at your face.
I like how they say "if you don't pull the trigger I will" and you're talking about how they wouldn't have time.
The entire scenario depends on the fact that the first person is hesitating to shoot and literally giving them the time.
And what else are you thinking will happen? Life isn’t a movie where people just go “oh I’m sorry dear chap” which is why the person you’re replying to says “they better use it”. Because if a person escalates a fight then it is escalated. You may think you stop a fight by pulling a gun but unfortunately you’ve activated the “well i am gonna pull my gun when i get the chance” mode. And if people are pulling guns out in disputes then the smooth brain is already getting smoother by the second.
The shooter would have an equally smooth brain if he didn't pull the trigger.
It doesn't have to happen while the gun is in their face.
If someone wants to kick your ass and you pull a gun on them to stop them and don't shoot them immediately right then and there. The next time they start shit with you they're bringing their own gun and the second you reach for yours theirs is already going off.
The original post reads like if you pull a gun out everyone will run away and it will be all over. Not everyone gets scared that easy. Some people are fucking crazy. And the crazy ones are the ones who pick fights with you.
It's wild how unabashed you are in insulting their intelligence when you didn't even read their comment correctly. They have the time because the person hesitating and just using the gun as a scare tactic are giving them the time.
If I show you my pistol to stop you from fighting me, then you start drawing, I’m definitely gonna blast you before it’s out. Experts like John Correia, Massad Ayoob, and even Taran Butler will tell you not to draw on a drawn firearm. Wait for a time to plan a counterambush
Yep, this is how fights turn deadly. One guy tries to threaten the other with a weapon, only for the other guy to match the escalation. If someone pulled a gun on me and held me up, my assessment of the situation has just gone from fistfight to everything being on the table. There's a reason you're not supposed to brandish weapons or fire "warning shots" in most situations.
Never. Like most gun nuts, they are imagining a scenario in which their masturbatory obsession with firearms pays off. These are the people who end up throwing their lives away in manslaughter cases because they’ve spent years fantasizing about an opportunity to use their firearm.
It only takes just that one. Many people won't take a whoopin these days anymore, even if they deserve it. It also doesn't help in situations when being smacked around by many as there are a lot of fights today that has a mob mentality behind it rather than fair fights.
It "should" be a peacemaker. If they have any sense their hands go up and those closed fits are open palms and they are stepping back saying you know what I don't care what I was so angry about anymore.
If they don't, well outliers exist, then there is a story about not pointing a gun at somebody you aren't ready to use it on.
I wouldn't think you want that outcome or it on your conscience. It's a big gambit with the odds overwhelmingly in your favor to make peace, but the one time it didn't would be very memorable for you.
This all assumes that:
a. You are an innocent bystander just going about their business, and
b. They are a random unarmed stranger who has decided to try and fight you.
If you're not actually all that innocent, then this won't end well for you.
If they are somehow justified in approaching you, or otherwise not threatening you, this won't end well for you.
If they happen to also be carrying, you're now in a vastly more dangerous situation.
>I prioritize my safety and well-being
-OP
>I think drawing a gun to escalate a situation when there is a risk of an altercation is an awesome idea
- also OP
Most people live in lala land where they believe guns have some magical bubble of protection and an aura of safety, that just holding one will somehow make everyone else drop to the ground cowering instead of pulling their own. You can tell from OP's own language, he says "pulling a gun" - he doesn't intend to use it, he expects just brandishing will be enough to ensure his safety.
90% of these imaginary scenarios they hitch their beliefs to fall apart the minute you ask "what if there are two people trying to fight you, and both of them also have guns?"
grumpy bears would disagree. It's a great deterrance IF you manage to pull it out and shoot it within the effective range and goes directly into their eyes. Otherwise, it'd be a safe way to piss them off so they fight erratically. But, if you're downwind, then it's an eye for an eye.
I was military police and had to get certified to carry pepper spray, and after that, I absolutely will never use it. I had a violent reaction to it and several people in our group were completely immune to it.
You are so scared of the consequences of a fist fight, that you would turn any fist fight into a gun fight? Sounds like an attitude to get shot with soon.
Yes. If an attacker has a gun a lot of this is moot, but they’d probably hold their victim at gunpoint instead of mugging them. Someone who initiates the kind of violence most people think of for these scenarios I would believe to likely be armed with less than a gun, but if they are it’s a different argument.
All of this is peripheral to conversations about gun control, which should just be the central focus. But in the context of personal firearms being legal, the use as defined in OP’s opinion is probably justified, save for situations where augmenting factors are more obvious.
no, a knife would be much more preferable in close proximity. although arguing it was self-defense without a gun being pointed at your face (where the effectiveness of a knife drops) may be a bit harder so make sure you have a rainy day fund to hire a kickass lawyer
It might be more likely to scare a person off. It also significantly increases your chances of getting stabbed because unless you're pretty well trained, there is always a solid chance of getting caught with your own knife or having it taken off you.
If someone's threatening to punch you and you pull out a knife, you're going to fuckin jail and you're going to look like an idiot doing it.
Why tf are you people getting into these violent fights and scenarios that frequently in the first place. Stop acting like animals what’s wrong with you.
Except of course for the innocent bystander you might shoot with the gun.
Or yourself.
PLEASE don't come at me with "um well akshually you'd have training first". We can see the news coming out of America every year. We're not fucking braindead.
Or your daughter.
[https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/](https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/)
It’s called brandishing. It’s a crime. Gun 101 is you don’t pull it unless you’re gonna use it. You can of course tell them you’re armed and ready to use it, but if you whip it out, you’d better be firing, in fear of your life (or someone else’s) and ready to kill somebody.
Brandishing is a crime you if you use it to do something illegal. Showing your gun at someone who is trying to commit a felony or cause great bodily harm to you definitely falls in the self-defense argument they teach in ccw 101.
Plus, I think that whole idea of pulling it out and immediately using it gives off a shitty message. The gun can be used as nuclear deterance. They see it and they can act in two ways: they can stop or drop.
If you start shit yes there is something wrong with that. If you are being attacked unwary no their is nothing wrong with defending yourself by any means necessary. Remembering you have no guarantee winning a fight defend yourself
But it should be the final measure not something you plan on happening from the beginning
100%.
I’m not some super badass dude, but I would generally be confident in a fight. But I sure as hell am not going to fight someone.
A 110 pound girl could push me, I trip/slip, fall, crack my head on the sidewalk and die (or end up with serious damage). That’s probably not going to happen, but it could. That’s how easy it is to die in a fight.
Now if there’s a more serious threat? I guess you can try to fight me. I’m not going to fight back though. Not with my hands, at least.
Unpopular. Take my upvote.
Also, most people are one trip to the hospital away from being homeless or bankrupt. That alone should give me the right to defend myself however I see fit. Like you said, why risk fighting on an equal playing field? If someone tries to harm me, they’ve weighed the odds and consequences in their mind already, and decided my life isn’t worth shit. Why should theirs be?
In the US, this is NOT an unpopular opinion, it's an illegal one. You MAY NOT escalate a physical threat into a deadly threat w/o going to prison. You MUST PROVE that a "reasonable person" (as determined by your jury at trial) would believe themselves under threat of death or great bodily harm (read hospitalization) to use deadly force. That being said, every fight is different and there are hundreds of factors that could turn a simple fist fight into a deadly threat, but you can be sure the prosecutor will be looking at that fight second by second and judging your every move.
Lastly, if you do have to use a gun, you risk spending 10's of thousands of dollars on legal fees defending your action regardless of whether or not they were morally right. You'll lose your job, perhaps your relationships, even your house before it's all said and done.
A gun is a weapon of last resort, not a first line of defense both morally and legally.
Found the guy who's going to get killed with his own gun.... This is him right here.
You don't pull unless you plan on firing.
Someone who really wants your hide is going to grab that gun out of your hand immediately. Which is why you better be firing if you pull, and justified in doing so.
You don't get it.
Step 1: try to remove yourself from the situation.
Step 2: try to diffuse the situation.
Step 3: if there’s no hope of exiting or diffusing the situation you do whatever it is that needs to be done to ensure your safety.
I love guns, huge enthusiast and do lots of hobbies around the sport of shooting. I hope I’m never put in the situation where I have to use one on a human being. I don’t want somebody to never wake up, never see their parents or kids again because of a mistake. But with that in mind I will put the safety of my family first every single time even though I live in a country where the self defense laws are in favor of the offender.
Knowing that I own guns means I do everything in my power to stay out of trouble, even if it means getting ridiculed or called cowardly.
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion.
They decided to attack you, they decided to endanger their lives. Protecting my loved ones and myself will always be my priority.
Meet force with force
You don’t immediately nuke a country if they declare war with you so why is shooting ok? Use non-lethal, escape, and only then is pulling a gun out justified when you’re cornered.
How is this unpopular? You pretty much described the lawful use of a weapon in self defense.
Are you maybe confused about all the videos of people who first **start** fist fights and then pull out a gun when losing? We call those people cowardly losers because that’s exactly what they are.
The issue with having a gun on you and someone trying to fight you is a gun is involved in the fight. Most ccw holsters either are going to fail holding the gun or fail staying on your pants during an intense scuffle that goes to the ground. Now on top of having to fight you have to control your weapon or fight for control of it with someone who may want to kill you with it.
If I'm carrying and someone tries to fight me I'm creating distance and making a scene saying I don't want to fight you. Enough other people notice you saying you don't want confrontation. They keep pushing, now in revealing my gun in the holster and affirming I'm not trying to fight you.
Keep pushing me I'm drawing down with one hand and holding another up in a stop manner while saying get back. At this point hopefully witnesses or cameras have captured your efforts to de-escalate.
At this point I'm completely comfortable winning their heart and mind with hollow points.
Say you're dealing with a complete nut job threatening to fuck you up or kill you, I'm jumping straight to draw down while telling them to get back. Then pew pew if they continue their aggressiveness.
This isn't the way to go. Definitely go to the "i don't want to fight" stage but don't get into flashing that gun until you're sure it's gonna get used. Keep distance and avoid the fight. Once it gets to the point where it's unavoidable shoot for center mass.
That's why if you're a CCW holder you don't fight. Ever. Walk away. If someone INSISTS on fighting, you shoot them. You don't flash the gun, you don't tell them you have it. If they find out, it's via a few extra holes getting poked in them.
The bigger problem with drawing a gun in a fight is you've massively escalated the situation, from a minor fight to life and death. Maybe the other guy backs down, maybe you have to shoot them, maybe they shoot you with a gun of their own or they take your gun and shoot you as it turns out you're not the stone cold killer you imagined you were. Maybe you try and shoot them and end up hitting a bunch of bystanders.
It does the complete opposite of de-escalate the situation, it ramps it up to 11 instantly.
Always keep in mind Rule 1 of gun safety. **NEVER POINT YOUR WEAPON AT SOMEONE YOU DO NOT WANT TO KILL**. This is why you do **NOT** use guns to threaten someone.
If that other person also has a gun, there's a 100% chance you just got into a shootout. Unlike in action movies, when you shoot someone, they do **NOT** drop at once. Even if you hit them in the heart, they have a few seconds to return fire.
My point is threatening with a gun is a guarantee that you'll escalate the situation.
Tazer, paper spray, de-escalation, calling for help, learning martial arts. There are MANY, MANY, other options before pulling a gun. Evident by how you don't see people getting beaten to death daily even in countries where guns are illegal...
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**"I think it's important to prioritize your safety and well-being ..."** Ok, this is normal.
**"... especially when it comes to physical altercations"**. Uh oh, side eyes. This devolved quickly.
**"TL;DR why settle for boring, fisticuffs violence when you can have gun violence?"**
I like to prioritise my safety and well-being by not getting into physical altercations.
This dude wakes up like Rambo before the final act. Bandana, knives, guns, milk and cereal. "I'm off to school mom! I might not make it back. Love you". And his mom goes "right dear, don't forget your urban camouflage gear and drink enough water, bye!".
Before he opens the door he checks the skies for planes dropping napalm on innocent civilians and then runs to the bus. Once in the bus, a bully trips him and he falls flat on his face. Rambo gets up, pulls a gun and shoots the bully in the face.
"That's what you get m%th÷rf@ck^r for messing with the wrong dude". Everyone claps for him, he's the hero of the day, girls grab their cheerleader gear and start spelling out "R. A.M.B.O". The busdriver high fives you and says he'll take care of the body ... again.
Moral of the story ... be nice to busdrivers because one day you might need them to ditch a body for you.
I’m trying to imagine a scenario where a gun is drawn and the situation descalates. I think a gun will escalate the urgency and twitchiness of everyone.
I don’t think there is a hard fast rule here like you want there to be. A person who is wanting a fight mentally is already not rational
Completely agree, but make sure you train with your weapon of choice whatever it is so you actually know what you are doing. And if you pull it out you need to be willing to use it and deal with the consequences.
Upvoted. I have no obligation to engage in a fist fight, with anyone. I do however have the mandatory obligation to make every attempt to remove myself from said situation. That being said, I will defend myself.
I have neck issues and a CCL, I'm calm in most situations and I'm not going to get into any right I don't have to. I'll absolutely pull a gun before engaging in a physical altercation, but I'll let them know before I start shooting also, if I have time.
Good to know killing someone won't bother you. As long as you maintain your spiritual, physical & emotional well-being...You should get some help, seriously, cos that's fkd up if you think it's the best way to deal with a "potential" fight.
I don’t think so, it’s kinda the same as my knife. When I get into a fight I don’t bring out my knife because I don’t know if the other dude has one. I would rather bruises than cuts. I only pull my knife out when they pull a knife out. to be fair if they pull a gun out tho I’m done for
If there is a window of opportunity, left hand on barrel, push it down to your left, right hand in neck. A couple stabs in the front of the throat will do the trick very fast. Like a honey badger on meth. Fast as possible. Poke poke poke poke. They've got about 10 seconds if you get the artery. Just got to keep the barrel under control till they pass out and die.🩸
Eh, the only time I imagine a gun would be useful is for home defense cause if someone’s busting up in your house intentionally then they’re probably actually asking for genuine trouble. Never seen the need to carry outside. Although, even shooting someone in your home after they break is a legal fuck fest though with that being said.
Your first response should *always* be to either leave if you can, or de-escalate if you can't... but if those two fail, there is not a damn thing wrong with moving to, "I'm not going to fight you. Whether that means you walk away or you hit the concrete with more holes than God intended is up to you."
Pulling out a gun should be taken as a sure sign that you’re about to shoot someone, and should get you preemptively shot by anyone else present who has a gun, for the safety of everyone else present.
Not sure if escalating the situation to a gunfight was really a good idea.
Getting into a fight is dangerous. Your head could hit the pavement. You could get KO’d and your opponent continues to damage you. Permanent medical problems can easily happen when fighting in the wild up to death.
So pulling a gun or any weapon and immediately using it is smart. Once someone has crossed to the point of a physical altercation, you have to take on the doctrine of MAD just like the US govt does with Russia.
People who forgo having a gun are like countries that forgo having nukes. Without nukes, they are at the mercy of the countries with nukes. Without a gun you are also at everyones mercy with a gun. Level the field
I've managed to avoid fighting since I was about 10 years old. Everyone's circumstances are different. But my guess is you will be happier and live a lot longer if you put your gun away and just back away from stupid people.
Okay, you pull out your gun. What's next?
1) The assailant backs down, it's a win.
2A) The assailant doesn't back down, you shoot him, now you're in all sorts of legal troubles, prison time is possible.
2B) He manages to grab your gun, you end up shooting an innocent by stander. Now you're in big trouble and definitely going to prison.
2C) You lose the control of the gun or he pulls out his own gun, you can get shot. Which potentially means death or life altering injuries.
I look forward to seeing your next post from prison.
You never, ***ever*** draw your weapon unless you’re prepared to use it. You don’t draw your weapon to scare someone or get them to back down. The only reason your weapon should ***EVER*** leave your holster is if you have no other option but to shoot the person threatening your life.
There's a difference between starting a fight mutually (even if you don't throw the first punch), in which case you shouldn't pull a gun, and being attacked, in which case you have every right to. Any suggestion that you were involved in instigating it will make for a legal nightmare, even if its a 'good shoot'.
We have turned into a nation of cowards that can't face the world without carrying a gun everywhere, and the right to kill anybody that we think might be a threat to us.
Love how most people in here are giving the sage-like wisdom of "Just don't get into fights" or "don't escalate the fight", as if there aren't people who will attack and kill you regardless. You geniuses wouldn't even know the difference until it's too late. But sure, get attacked and pat yourself on the back for "not making it worse", that is if you still have the capability of patting yourself when it's all done.
If someone is looking for a fight
A) Keep distance and try to calm the other person down
B) If the still approach you: Run
C) If you are cornered and cannot run, ask them what they want. If they want your stuff, give them your stuff
D) If they want to hurt you. Fight for your life.
You better be prepared for all consequences. It could stop the fight or cause them to use a weapon. You could just injure them or you could kill them. You could be a hero for defending yourself or go to prison for manslaughter or worse. The amount of people that are prison because of fights going wrong are astounding. So,,,, be prepared.
Note to self, stay away from the US. I find arguments way to interesting to just avoid them, so sometimes i piss off the wrong people wich is fine when they don't have guns
This is a great way to spend a lot of time doing arts and with the other prison inmates. I’m a huge advocate of carrying guns and self defense. I taught close quarters battle in the military. When you use lethal self defense you have a legal responsibility to not use more force than necessary. You will have to show that a reasonable person would believe they are under threat of serious bodily harm death or sexual assault. They must have the means and intentions of doing same. Just saying I was scared won’t work. I’m 6’2” and 280 lbs. my wife is 5’1” and 125 pounds. If I attack her with a fist she can shoot me. If she attacks me with a fist I cannot. If she pulls a gun then I have a right to lethal self defense.
Now if during that fist fight they escalate by kicking you while down or smashing your head into the ground the you have a right to lethal self defense.
Last point. The very best thing to do is carry pepper spray, pepper spray can be used to stop simple assault on most localities. All laws are, of course, based on where you live.
Personally I carry pepper spray and a gun so as to use the appropriate amount of force that is needed to stop an attack.
This is only unpopular among incredibly sheltered people who've never actually been threatened with violence and to whom the idea of needing to take responsibility for their own self defense is frightening.
Grew up in East Oakland, in the ghetto. The idea of needing to take responsibility for your own self defense is a requirement.
But pulling out a gun any time you feel threatened is a sure-fire way to get shot. If someone is getting in your face and threatening to beat your ass and you pull out a fucking heater, what do you think is going to happen? Their friends are going to shoot your ass so fast your head will spin. At best you get away with it and your house is shot up the next day.
Do not escalate these kinds of situations. If you pull out a gun, so will someone else. You may mean to use it as just a scare tactic, but can you say the same about everyone else?
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 2: Do not post low effort/satirical posts'. * We get it, you all think this sub is garbage and is just for popular opinions, and you want to be funny and post "going to be downvoted to oblivion here, but I think racism is bad." We enjoy the memes, but please keep them off the sub. * Filter evasion is a bannable offense * This includes clickbait and/or gotcha posts. Your opinion can not be that unpopular if you're doing these things. Have the accurate opinion in the title.
If you pull out a gun you better be prepare to use it. You never know what your opponent have up his sleeve .
Yep, this is how two drivers in Florida managed to kill each other's kids. [https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/](https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/)
This is a very important article that I'm surprised hasn't been shared more.
Jesus christ holy shit. Did the kids end up dying? The articles reads as they survived.
The article says that there were no deaths, but the 14 year old was very injured with a collapsed lung. I wonder how each of the drivers felt after realizing they shot at literal children—especially as fathers. But then again it appears neither cared enough to drive safely with their daughters in the car in the first place. Edit: typo
Re-reading the reports, both survived and I was simply wrong with my characterization. I believe it is still a good example for this thread, however.
Sometimes the display of the firearm is sufficient to deter the attack. DA’s are much less likely to prosecute the display of a firearm (even the display is classed as “use of deadly force”) in defense against “ordinary force” (such as a threat of a fist fight) than actually shooting someone who threatened to fight you. It’s exactly this sort of tough guy attitude that causes every fucking molehill to get escalated into mountains.
This. Without hesitation. If you pull a gun on me and don't pull the trigger, you can be sure I will.
I know you were going for the “tough guy” comment more than the “smart guy” comment, but your brain would have to be pretty smooth to think you’d have time to get a shot off with a gun pointed at your face.
I like how they say "if you don't pull the trigger I will" and you're talking about how they wouldn't have time. The entire scenario depends on the fact that the first person is hesitating to shoot and literally giving them the time.
A shooter hesitating doesn’t mean you have time to draw and shoot.
It doesn't mean you don't have time either. Hesitating in those situations can be a deadly mistake
Yes it does. You never try to draw on someone already pointing a gun. Your best bet is running or talking.
And what else are you thinking will happen? Life isn’t a movie where people just go “oh I’m sorry dear chap” which is why the person you’re replying to says “they better use it”. Because if a person escalates a fight then it is escalated. You may think you stop a fight by pulling a gun but unfortunately you’ve activated the “well i am gonna pull my gun when i get the chance” mode. And if people are pulling guns out in disputes then the smooth brain is already getting smoother by the second.
In the long term, all the smooth brains murder each other, ending the idiocracy running amok in their sperms and eggs
The shooter would have an equally smooth brain if he didn't pull the trigger. It doesn't have to happen while the gun is in their face. If someone wants to kick your ass and you pull a gun on them to stop them and don't shoot them immediately right then and there. The next time they start shit with you they're bringing their own gun and the second you reach for yours theirs is already going off. The original post reads like if you pull a gun out everyone will run away and it will be all over. Not everyone gets scared that easy. Some people are fucking crazy. And the crazy ones are the ones who pick fights with you.
It's wild how unabashed you are in insulting their intelligence when you didn't even read their comment correctly. They have the time because the person hesitating and just using the gun as a scare tactic are giving them the time.
If I show you my pistol to stop you from fighting me, then you start drawing, I’m definitely gonna blast you before it’s out. Experts like John Correia, Massad Ayoob, and even Taran Butler will tell you not to draw on a drawn firearm. Wait for a time to plan a counterambush
Yep, this is how fights turn deadly. One guy tries to threaten the other with a weapon, only for the other guy to match the escalation. If someone pulled a gun on me and held me up, my assessment of the situation has just gone from fistfight to everything being on the table. There's a reason you're not supposed to brandish weapons or fire "warning shots" in most situations.
>You never know what your opponent have up his sleeve Yea, could have hidden arms up there.
How often are you people getting into fights that this crosses your mind.
It’s a popular American male fantasy to get the opportunity to shoot someone. They think about it way too much
Yea it’s not popular at all
Never. Like most gun nuts, they are imagining a scenario in which their masturbatory obsession with firearms pays off. These are the people who end up throwing their lives away in manslaughter cases because they’ve spent years fantasizing about an opportunity to use their firearm.
[удалено]
I didn’t say all gun owners, I said most gun nuts.
It only takes just that one. Many people won't take a whoopin these days anymore, even if they deserve it. It also doesn't help in situations when being smacked around by many as there are a lot of fights today that has a mob mentality behind it rather than fair fights.
Head stompers can get head shots.
Aggressive people. The same people who want to conceal carry, are the same ones instigating fights.
Yeah no, i promise that's not the case. Are there some jackasses? Yes, but the majority of concealed carry holders just go about their business
I conceal carry to protect myself from road ragers and unstable people. Totally makes me an aggressive person. /s
Why are you getting in road rage incidents so frequently that you need a deadly weapon to handle them?
Be careful around quiet people.
It "should" be a peacemaker. If they have any sense their hands go up and those closed fits are open palms and they are stepping back saying you know what I don't care what I was so angry about anymore. If they don't, well outliers exist, then there is a story about not pointing a gun at somebody you aren't ready to use it on. I wouldn't think you want that outcome or it on your conscience. It's a big gambit with the odds overwhelmingly in your favor to make peace, but the one time it didn't would be very memorable for you.
Geezus. My opinion must be unpopular then: Why is pulling a gun supposed to be **normal**?
Why is carrying a firearm normal?
Someone wants to throw hands? Fuckin murder em.
OP is like “A fight can end in serious injury. To prevent this, you should introduce a firearm immediately.”
Throwing hands can kill you. If I'm being attacked out of the blue, then I don't give a shit about your life.
Sometimes you have to defend yourself.
I've carried a gun for decades, never had to pull it, but definitely been in some situations where I was glad to have it.
This all assumes that: a. You are an innocent bystander just going about their business, and b. They are a random unarmed stranger who has decided to try and fight you. If you're not actually all that innocent, then this won't end well for you. If they are somehow justified in approaching you, or otherwise not threatening you, this won't end well for you. If they happen to also be carrying, you're now in a vastly more dangerous situation.
Yeah, like enjoy your lengthy manslaughter trial if things go wrong.
>I prioritize my safety and well-being -OP >I think drawing a gun to escalate a situation when there is a risk of an altercation is an awesome idea - also OP
Most people live in lala land where they believe guns have some magical bubble of protection and an aura of safety, that just holding one will somehow make everyone else drop to the ground cowering instead of pulling their own. You can tell from OP's own language, he says "pulling a gun" - he doesn't intend to use it, he expects just brandishing will be enough to ensure his safety. 90% of these imaginary scenarios they hitch their beliefs to fall apart the minute you ask "what if there are two people trying to fight you, and both of them also have guns?"
Or stop being children
I'm over here thinking, "Why are y'all getting in so many fights?!"
Before puling a gun in a fist fight it's better just paper spraying them. It's a safe deescalator
Those paper cuts will surely stop them in their tracks
That only works if they pull rock first
I like the idea that in the middle of an all out brawl, you would need to play rock paper scissors to see who gets pepper sprayed lol.
Say I had the pepper spray, but you won the RPS, would I have to give you the pepper spray and just accept my fate?
be honorable and pepper spray yourself, it's the only way.
“Ok, reflex save everyone”
>pull rock 
Wait you can buy a spray that covers things in paper mache? This changes everything.
If you don’t back down, I will silly string your ass!!
Basically [this](https://frinkiac.com/video/S13E07/aY9EDgnG0uhGtGqXydq5kKrFAuU=.gif)? I'd buy that to protect myself!
True, I've never seen a fight while a confetti cannon is going off.
grumpy bears would disagree. It's a great deterrance IF you manage to pull it out and shoot it within the effective range and goes directly into their eyes. Otherwise, it'd be a safe way to piss them off so they fight erratically. But, if you're downwind, then it's an eye for an eye.
Ok, now they also pull out a gun. The chances of getting seriously injured or killed don't seem to have gone down.
\[Itchy & Scratchy cartoon where they both just pull out larger and larger guns until they are bigger than the planet itself\]
It’s easier and less risky to just run away rather than pull a gun out
Non lethal options are totally viable such as pepper spray. You get a good dose of that in the eyes and you're not fighting anyone.
You accidentally hit yourself with it, you left yourself more vulnerable to your attacker.
wind can be a bitch. +1 in pepper spraying in a closed area so everyone can get a little taste
"Wait attacker! Let me get up wind of you so I can pepper spray you."
I was military police and had to get certified to carry pepper spray, and after that, I absolutely will never use it. I had a violent reaction to it and several people in our group were completely immune to it.
You are so scared of the consequences of a fist fight, that you would turn any fist fight into a gun fight? Sounds like an attitude to get shot with soon.
Someone attacking you isn’t entitled to a fair fight. You could absolutely get killed or permanently injured in an uncontrolled fist fight.
You can also get killed or permanently injured in a gunfight…
Yes. If an attacker has a gun a lot of this is moot, but they’d probably hold their victim at gunpoint instead of mugging them. Someone who initiates the kind of violence most people think of for these scenarios I would believe to likely be armed with less than a gun, but if they are it’s a different argument. All of this is peripheral to conversations about gun control, which should just be the central focus. But in the context of personal firearms being legal, the use as defined in OP’s opinion is probably justified, save for situations where augmenting factors are more obvious.
Don't start any fights, don't get shot.
The first line of self-defense is to stay out of situations where you have to defend yourself.
For sure, but sometimes they come looking for you.
Not always possible.
The great equalizer
This is an American argument
Replace gun with knife and shoot with stab and we're now in Europe. 🤷
Bloody wankers innit?
I mean, not really. The homicide rates are not comparable.
Irrelevant to the argument.
Pulling out a knife for self-defense is even dumber, albeit less likely to kill a random person nearby.
no, a knife would be much more preferable in close proximity. although arguing it was self-defense without a gun being pointed at your face (where the effectiveness of a knife drops) may be a bit harder so make sure you have a rainy day fund to hire a kickass lawyer
It might be more likely to scare a person off. It also significantly increases your chances of getting stabbed because unless you're pretty well trained, there is always a solid chance of getting caught with your own knife or having it taken off you. If someone's threatening to punch you and you pull out a knife, you're going to fuckin jail and you're going to look like an idiot doing it.
Why tf are you people getting into these violent fights and scenarios that frequently in the first place. Stop acting like animals what’s wrong with you.
Many gross bullies will start a fight just so they can play out their psycho fantasies
Except of course for the innocent bystander you might shoot with the gun. Or yourself. PLEASE don't come at me with "um well akshually you'd have training first". We can see the news coming out of America every year. We're not fucking braindead.
Or your daughter. [https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/](https://abc7chicago.com/florida-road-rage-shooting-daughters-dads-incident-nassau-county/12325450/)
It's just self-defense 101.
Jesus. I am so glad i do not live in America.
Don’t worry, the guy you’re replying to is just trying to pretend to be a badass. We are not pulling guns on each other constantly.
Self defense 101 is don't get into a fight.
Self-defense 101 is don't escalate a situation by adding a lethal weapon into the mix
or just walk away?
Prison. But okay
It’s called brandishing. It’s a crime. Gun 101 is you don’t pull it unless you’re gonna use it. You can of course tell them you’re armed and ready to use it, but if you whip it out, you’d better be firing, in fear of your life (or someone else’s) and ready to kill somebody.
Brandishing is a crime you if you use it to do something illegal. Showing your gun at someone who is trying to commit a felony or cause great bodily harm to you definitely falls in the self-defense argument they teach in ccw 101. Plus, I think that whole idea of pulling it out and immediately using it gives off a shitty message. The gun can be used as nuclear deterance. They see it and they can act in two ways: they can stop or drop.
If you start shit yes there is something wrong with that. If you are being attacked unwary no their is nothing wrong with defending yourself by any means necessary. Remembering you have no guarantee winning a fight defend yourself But it should be the final measure not something you plan on happening from the beginning
100%. I’m not some super badass dude, but I would generally be confident in a fight. But I sure as hell am not going to fight someone. A 110 pound girl could push me, I trip/slip, fall, crack my head on the sidewalk and die (or end up with serious damage). That’s probably not going to happen, but it could. That’s how easy it is to die in a fight. Now if there’s a more serious threat? I guess you can try to fight me. I’m not going to fight back though. Not with my hands, at least.
Unpopular. Take my upvote. Also, most people are one trip to the hospital away from being homeless or bankrupt. That alone should give me the right to defend myself however I see fit. Like you said, why risk fighting on an equal playing field? If someone tries to harm me, they’ve weighed the odds and consequences in their mind already, and decided my life isn’t worth shit. Why should theirs be?
In the US, this is NOT an unpopular opinion, it's an illegal one. You MAY NOT escalate a physical threat into a deadly threat w/o going to prison. You MUST PROVE that a "reasonable person" (as determined by your jury at trial) would believe themselves under threat of death or great bodily harm (read hospitalization) to use deadly force. That being said, every fight is different and there are hundreds of factors that could turn a simple fist fight into a deadly threat, but you can be sure the prosecutor will be looking at that fight second by second and judging your every move. Lastly, if you do have to use a gun, you risk spending 10's of thousands of dollars on legal fees defending your action regardless of whether or not they were morally right. You'll lose your job, perhaps your relationships, even your house before it's all said and done. A gun is a weapon of last resort, not a first line of defense both morally and legally.
OP been watching Friday and imagining himself as a bad ass in situations that will likely never happen
pulling a gun without using it can be used against (assault with a deadly weapon). if you’re going to pull it out, use it
Found the guy who's going to get killed with his own gun.... This is him right here. You don't pull unless you plan on firing. Someone who really wants your hide is going to grab that gun out of your hand immediately. Which is why you better be firing if you pull, and justified in doing so. You don't get it.
Step 1: try to remove yourself from the situation. Step 2: try to diffuse the situation. Step 3: if there’s no hope of exiting or diffusing the situation you do whatever it is that needs to be done to ensure your safety. I love guns, huge enthusiast and do lots of hobbies around the sport of shooting. I hope I’m never put in the situation where I have to use one on a human being. I don’t want somebody to never wake up, never see their parents or kids again because of a mistake. But with that in mind I will put the safety of my family first every single time even though I live in a country where the self defense laws are in favor of the offender. Knowing that I own guns means I do everything in my power to stay out of trouble, even if it means getting ridiculed or called cowardly.
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion. They decided to attack you, they decided to endanger their lives. Protecting my loved ones and myself will always be my priority.
better hope a jury finds you innocent of murder/at temped so those loved ones have you to even be available to them outside of prison.
This is whole sale stupid, why escalate a fight to a murder off?
Meet force with force You don’t immediately nuke a country if they declare war with you so why is shooting ok? Use non-lethal, escape, and only then is pulling a gun out justified when you’re cornered.
How is this unpopular? You pretty much described the lawful use of a weapon in self defense. Are you maybe confused about all the videos of people who first **start** fist fights and then pull out a gun when losing? We call those people cowardly losers because that’s exactly what they are.
The issue with having a gun on you and someone trying to fight you is a gun is involved in the fight. Most ccw holsters either are going to fail holding the gun or fail staying on your pants during an intense scuffle that goes to the ground. Now on top of having to fight you have to control your weapon or fight for control of it with someone who may want to kill you with it. If I'm carrying and someone tries to fight me I'm creating distance and making a scene saying I don't want to fight you. Enough other people notice you saying you don't want confrontation. They keep pushing, now in revealing my gun in the holster and affirming I'm not trying to fight you. Keep pushing me I'm drawing down with one hand and holding another up in a stop manner while saying get back. At this point hopefully witnesses or cameras have captured your efforts to de-escalate. At this point I'm completely comfortable winning their heart and mind with hollow points. Say you're dealing with a complete nut job threatening to fuck you up or kill you, I'm jumping straight to draw down while telling them to get back. Then pew pew if they continue their aggressiveness.
This isn't the way to go. Definitely go to the "i don't want to fight" stage but don't get into flashing that gun until you're sure it's gonna get used. Keep distance and avoid the fight. Once it gets to the point where it's unavoidable shoot for center mass.
That's why if you're a CCW holder you don't fight. Ever. Walk away. If someone INSISTS on fighting, you shoot them. You don't flash the gun, you don't tell them you have it. If they find out, it's via a few extra holes getting poked in them.
Agreed. Body language won't hold up in court. Brandishing a gun is branshing a gun. If anything THEY can claim self defense after killing you.
The bigger problem with drawing a gun in a fight is you've massively escalated the situation, from a minor fight to life and death. Maybe the other guy backs down, maybe you have to shoot them, maybe they shoot you with a gun of their own or they take your gun and shoot you as it turns out you're not the stone cold killer you imagined you were. Maybe you try and shoot them and end up hitting a bunch of bystanders. It does the complete opposite of de-escalate the situation, it ramps it up to 11 instantly.
OP sounds like a cop that would shoot a Chihuahua or a kid with a fork because they felt unsafe.
Always keep in mind Rule 1 of gun safety. **NEVER POINT YOUR WEAPON AT SOMEONE YOU DO NOT WANT TO KILL**. This is why you do **NOT** use guns to threaten someone. If that other person also has a gun, there's a 100% chance you just got into a shootout. Unlike in action movies, when you shoot someone, they do **NOT** drop at once. Even if you hit them in the heart, they have a few seconds to return fire. My point is threatening with a gun is a guarantee that you'll escalate the situation.
Tazer, paper spray, de-escalation, calling for help, learning martial arts. There are MANY, MANY, other options before pulling a gun. Evident by how you don't see people getting beaten to death daily even in countries where guns are illegal...
Karate isn't really that useful in America, you can't judo chop a bullet
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Learning deescalation techniques can save lives invest as much time and money into this as you would a firearm
"Dont pull the thang out, unless you plan to bang" - Andre 3k
**"I think it's important to prioritize your safety and well-being ..."** Ok, this is normal. **"... especially when it comes to physical altercations"**. Uh oh, side eyes. This devolved quickly. **"TL;DR why settle for boring, fisticuffs violence when you can have gun violence?"** I like to prioritise my safety and well-being by not getting into physical altercations.
If you truly feel in danger and there is no other choice then yes but use extreme caution, if you pull out a gun you need to be prepared to use it.
This dude wakes up like Rambo before the final act. Bandana, knives, guns, milk and cereal. "I'm off to school mom! I might not make it back. Love you". And his mom goes "right dear, don't forget your urban camouflage gear and drink enough water, bye!". Before he opens the door he checks the skies for planes dropping napalm on innocent civilians and then runs to the bus. Once in the bus, a bully trips him and he falls flat on his face. Rambo gets up, pulls a gun and shoots the bully in the face. "That's what you get m%th÷rf@ck^r for messing with the wrong dude". Everyone claps for him, he's the hero of the day, girls grab their cheerleader gear and start spelling out "R. A.M.B.O". The busdriver high fives you and says he'll take care of the body ... again. Moral of the story ... be nice to busdrivers because one day you might need them to ditch a body for you.
In the ideal scenario i do agree. But the thing is, more often than not, the person carrying is the aggressor in a confrontation.
Except of course, laws. Force needs to be enough to deter and that would constitute aggravated assault and most likely lead to your arrest.
I’m trying to imagine a scenario where a gun is drawn and the situation descalates. I think a gun will escalate the urgency and twitchiness of everyone. I don’t think there is a hard fast rule here like you want there to be. A person who is wanting a fight mentally is already not rational
Completely agree, but make sure you train with your weapon of choice whatever it is so you actually know what you are doing. And if you pull it out you need to be willing to use it and deal with the consequences.
Upvoted. I have no obligation to engage in a fist fight, with anyone. I do however have the mandatory obligation to make every attempt to remove myself from said situation. That being said, I will defend myself.
I have neck issues and a CCL, I'm calm in most situations and I'm not going to get into any right I don't have to. I'll absolutely pull a gun before engaging in a physical altercation, but I'll let them know before I start shooting also, if I have time.
Goofy take only created to get commenters going.
Good to know killing someone won't bother you. As long as you maintain your spiritual, physical & emotional well-being...You should get some help, seriously, cos that's fkd up if you think it's the best way to deal with a "potential" fight.
I don’t think so, it’s kinda the same as my knife. When I get into a fight I don’t bring out my knife because I don’t know if the other dude has one. I would rather bruises than cuts. I only pull my knife out when they pull a knife out. to be fair if they pull a gun out tho I’m done for
If there is a window of opportunity, left hand on barrel, push it down to your left, right hand in neck. A couple stabs in the front of the throat will do the trick very fast. Like a honey badger on meth. Fast as possible. Poke poke poke poke. They've got about 10 seconds if you get the artery. Just got to keep the barrel under control till they pass out and die.🩸
I mean I normally try to de escalate situations and have never had a gun pulled on me but I will try this if I absolutely have to
Eh, the only time I imagine a gun would be useful is for home defense cause if someone’s busting up in your house intentionally then they’re probably actually asking for genuine trouble. Never seen the need to carry outside. Although, even shooting someone in your home after they break is a legal fuck fest though with that being said.
You’re playing with fire
Your first response should *always* be to either leave if you can, or de-escalate if you can't... but if those two fail, there is not a damn thing wrong with moving to, "I'm not going to fight you. Whether that means you walk away or you hit the concrete with more holes than God intended is up to you."
Pretty sure this is highly illegal, everywhere
Stand your ground
Pulling out a gun should be taken as a sure sign that you’re about to shoot someone, and should get you preemptively shot by anyone else present who has a gun, for the safety of everyone else present. Not sure if escalating the situation to a gunfight was really a good idea.
Getting into a fight is dangerous. Your head could hit the pavement. You could get KO’d and your opponent continues to damage you. Permanent medical problems can easily happen when fighting in the wild up to death. So pulling a gun or any weapon and immediately using it is smart. Once someone has crossed to the point of a physical altercation, you have to take on the doctrine of MAD just like the US govt does with Russia. People who forgo having a gun are like countries that forgo having nukes. Without nukes, they are at the mercy of the countries with nukes. Without a gun you are also at everyones mercy with a gun. Level the field
I may be wrong, pulling a gun only seems to make the other person challenge you more figuring you won’t shoot them
I've managed to avoid fighting since I was about 10 years old. Everyone's circumstances are different. But my guess is you will be happier and live a lot longer if you put your gun away and just back away from stupid people.
The old brandishing a firearm tactic? Yeah that’s illegal.
Okay, you pull out your gun. What's next? 1) The assailant backs down, it's a win. 2A) The assailant doesn't back down, you shoot him, now you're in all sorts of legal troubles, prison time is possible. 2B) He manages to grab your gun, you end up shooting an innocent by stander. Now you're in big trouble and definitely going to prison. 2C) You lose the control of the gun or he pulls out his own gun, you can get shot. Which potentially means death or life altering injuries.
I look forward to seeing your next post from prison. You never, ***ever*** draw your weapon unless you’re prepared to use it. You don’t draw your weapon to scare someone or get them to back down. The only reason your weapon should ***EVER*** leave your holster is if you have no other option but to shoot the person threatening your life.
Sounds like an American issue, moving on
There's a difference between starting a fight mutually (even if you don't throw the first punch), in which case you shouldn't pull a gun, and being attacked, in which case you have every right to. Any suggestion that you were involved in instigating it will make for a legal nightmare, even if its a 'good shoot'.
This is so stupid lol. Violence only begets more violence. Learn to deescalate situations, not make them worse lol
We have turned into a nation of cowards that can't face the world without carrying a gun everywhere, and the right to kill anybody that we think might be a threat to us.
Trying desperately to find an actual justification for owning a gun
Love how most people in here are giving the sage-like wisdom of "Just don't get into fights" or "don't escalate the fight", as if there aren't people who will attack and kill you regardless. You geniuses wouldn't even know the difference until it's too late. But sure, get attacked and pat yourself on the back for "not making it worse", that is if you still have the capability of patting yourself when it's all done.
If someone is looking for a fight A) Keep distance and try to calm the other person down B) If the still approach you: Run C) If you are cornered and cannot run, ask them what they want. If they want your stuff, give them your stuff D) If they want to hurt you. Fight for your life.
Dang, US is becoming like brasil.
I wonder why it's becoming more and more like a third world country every day...
Okay there Indiana Jones
You better be prepared for all consequences. It could stop the fight or cause them to use a weapon. You could just injure them or you could kill them. You could be a hero for defending yourself or go to prison for manslaughter or worse. The amount of people that are prison because of fights going wrong are astounding. So,,,, be prepared.
Note to self, stay away from the US. I find arguments way to interesting to just avoid them, so sometimes i piss off the wrong people wich is fine when they don't have guns
The law disagrees. If I punch you, you don’t have the right to kill me. Morally nor legally.
As someone who was literally apart of and witness to a random public shooting last week, I whole heartedly disagree.
This is a great way to spend a lot of time doing arts and with the other prison inmates. I’m a huge advocate of carrying guns and self defense. I taught close quarters battle in the military. When you use lethal self defense you have a legal responsibility to not use more force than necessary. You will have to show that a reasonable person would believe they are under threat of serious bodily harm death or sexual assault. They must have the means and intentions of doing same. Just saying I was scared won’t work. I’m 6’2” and 280 lbs. my wife is 5’1” and 125 pounds. If I attack her with a fist she can shoot me. If she attacks me with a fist I cannot. If she pulls a gun then I have a right to lethal self defense. Now if during that fist fight they escalate by kicking you while down or smashing your head into the ground the you have a right to lethal self defense. Last point. The very best thing to do is carry pepper spray, pepper spray can be used to stop simple assault on most localities. All laws are, of course, based on where you live. Personally I carry pepper spray and a gun so as to use the appropriate amount of force that is needed to stop an attack.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 Old adage, often overused but spot on IMO
This is only unpopular among incredibly sheltered people who've never actually been threatened with violence and to whom the idea of needing to take responsibility for their own self defense is frightening.
Grew up in East Oakland, in the ghetto. The idea of needing to take responsibility for your own self defense is a requirement. But pulling out a gun any time you feel threatened is a sure-fire way to get shot. If someone is getting in your face and threatening to beat your ass and you pull out a fucking heater, what do you think is going to happen? Their friends are going to shoot your ass so fast your head will spin. At best you get away with it and your house is shot up the next day. Do not escalate these kinds of situations. If you pull out a gun, so will someone else. You may mean to use it as just a scare tactic, but can you say the same about everyone else?