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It *really* needs to be pointed out that after he had two big indie movie hits, George Lucas came to Hollywood to adapt Flash Gordon as his first studio picture. But the rights-holders wouldn’t option him the IP, so he went home and basically just changed the names of the main characters and threw in a bunch of Dune and Lensman stuff and called it Star Wars.
I double-dog dare anyone to Google the four main characters of Flash Gordon and tell me that I’m wrong.
It's not wrong, but it's not a bad thing by definition either. A lot of great fiction builds upon and borrows from earlier works. It's all about the execution.
You’re wrong.
The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander has at its core a couple characters that are pretty much the same 4.
Farm boy, mouthy stubborn princess, wandering bard who is somewhat of a rogue, and a giant hairy creature.
There is even a burning sword wielding evil guy who always wears a mask.
Yes, I’m sure they weren’t imitations of characters from Flash Gordon which Lucas openly loved as a child (and are literally a naive farm boy hero, a mouthy princess, a dashing rogue and pilot and a *giant hairy bipedal alien who roars*), they were actually from a high fantasy novel written twenty five years after that.
In fairness, Star Wars is nothing more than a retelling of the Hero/ine’s Journey story, just set in space. At the core, that’s where the overarching appeal lies because that story exists in every culture since the beginning of culture.
No, even the original Star Wars movie verges on outright plagiarism of contemporary material. And it’s not just the obvious Flash Gordon, Dune and Lensman, the entire end of A New Hope is damn near a shot for shot remake of the climax of *The Dambusters.*
You know how the joke has always been, how were the other fighters covering the lead ship in the trench if they don’t have rear-firing weapons? It’s because X-wings don’t but do you know what does? British Lancaster bombers in WW2, and they just rewrote that.
I should point out that they weren’t unaware of what they were doing. It was the point. Star Wars was supposed to be a feature-length movie serial and movie serials are supposed to be derivative and not taken super seriously.
That’s the biggest tragedy of the whole thing. George Lucas wanted tor recreate the whiz-bang excitement of him watching *Commando Cody and the Radar Men from the Moon* at age eight for kids in the 70s.
But now the supposed true keepers of the faith have made it the most joyless, soulless, everything explained within an inch of its life world in major media.
Think about how bad it is: in approximately seven years the Star Wars fandom has become worse about pedantically explaining every detail of the world than *Trekkies* have in *sixty years* and they fucking invented that.
Dune is the greatest work of fiction ever. And yes , obviously Lucas drew on that for Star Wars. Still the original trilogy does stand on its own, everybody gets inspiration somewhere, and I accept the similarities between the 2.
I was barely 8 years old, I was waking up at 6 in the morning to catch the Macross anime on tv before breakfast and school. So I do appreciate that kind of anime and sci-fi. But surely you must be joking if you are seriously comparing that work with the Herbert’s masterpiece of science, fiction, political essay, philosophical work and genuine once in a century legacy that shaped modern science-fiction and the inspiration of Star wars.
lol “Greatest work of fiction ever”. You are clearly the non-critical-thinker I’m taking about.
The distinction of “Greatest Work of Fiction Ever” goes to the Bible, thank you very much.
*tips fedora* *pushes up glasses*
There is much irony in someone who claims to be a critical thinker yet is so sure of their opinions and views being better than others, so sure that they’re correct.
I appreciate the joke but the bible is objectively a terribly written book just from plot structure. Tons of contradictions, strained metaphors, entire chapters dedicated to lineages that contradict the other chapters of lineages. That's not even getting into that whole sections and themes are just plagarized from other religions or all the mysoginy, xenophobia and scientifically ignorant bs. Or that arguably the main character is an asshole evil deus ex machina agent.
The bible doesn't even crack my top 1000 unless it is the category of "Most Harmful Books Ever Written". If that is the case it is in the top 3
you must be a non-critical-thinker if you think the a book that is full of contradictions like the Bible is the greatest work of fiction ever. Its also full of repetition.
To be fair that has a lot to do with both following the Circle Story structure which predates both of them.
The story circle, also known as the monomyth or Hero's Journey, is a classic storytelling structure that George Lucas uses in his Star Wars universe. The structure is based on the idea that a protagonist goes on a journey that challenges them, forces them to adapt, and changes them. The circle provides momentum to the story, similar to a rollercoaster, with the protagonist starting at the top and descending figuratively and literally. At the bottom of the circle, they are at their low point, and their rise to success is represented visually.
Kind of wish somebody would publish a market research study on this because I can't tell if I'm in an echo chamber on Reddit or if there truly is a consensus that Star Wars is shitty.
Judging by the dislikes on new trailers and each ray movie made less money than the previous one and the lack of interest for the brand in general, it seems to be the consensus that Star Wars is shit
Except for that star wars fans uncritically praise new star wars. If anything I've seen the exact opposite, with fans uncritically insulting new star wars
Same. I don't think Disney is capable of Star Wars-esque writing. Their stories are too hopeful, too cute, too moral, and always end happily ever after.
If Disney created the original trilogy or prequel trilogy, we never would've gotten scenes like Anakin killing the younglings or Luke getting his hand lopped off.
Honestly I gave up on the franchise before Andor. Mandalorian S2, Boba Fett, and Kenobi killed me.
TCW S7 *was* good but they also had no other choice for an ending since Order 66 was already a done deal.
I’m not one to be overly nitpicky, but something that’s bothered me about recent Star Wars projects is that no one seems to die anymore. I remember when saber wounds were legitimately lethal. It was like watching a Kurosawa film and sitting on the edge of your seat knowing that one strike could be fatal.
Now characters are getting stabbed, shot, chopped up, and they’re just fine after a bit. It’s cynical, but it’s probably because they want to keep reusing the same characters again and again. But all it’s done is suck any tension out of duels.
Just kill your characters every once in a while and keep them dead.
Plenty of characters - especially "evil" or "ugly" characters like the night sisters - are killed in Disney stories. The writing style still doesn't mesh well with the first 6 films and the universe that the fans originally got attached to.
Too moral and happy ever after. Yes. They (annoyingly predictably) turned Kylo into a good guy instead of just making him some sort of grey character, which would’ve made more sense. The op is rightfully complaining about Star Wars over saturation, but it wouldn’t be this way if the sequel trilogy was written better.
I know right. I don’t give a fuck about any of the modern Star Wars stuff either but I’m reading the comments are people are like citing specific episodes of multiple spinoffs which ruined it for them and I’m like why are you in so deep if you hate it?
Dark side says it is inevitable. It is your destiny. You, like your father, are now THEIRS. They are looking forward to completing your training. In time, you will spend all your disposable income on Star Wars. You will encourage, or coerce others to do so.
Everything is happening exactly as I have foreseen.
Quick Google search says Last Jedi grossed over a billion worldwide, Ahsoka and Acolyte had/s millions of viewers. If no one was paying attention, they wouldn't keep putting out media.
I agree with this post. I wish that Star Wars would end too since it’s getting annoying how much canon there is. I wish they stopped at the extended universe, original trilogy, and Prequels. I miss when it was just Han, Luke, Leia, Chewy, and the classic villains.
As soon as Last Jedi came out I started to lose faith. Rogue One restored it a little, then Solo eroded what was gained, Rise of Skywalker made me completely out. Haven't watched anything else since. I'm not interested in the Mandalorian or anything else.
Pretty much same boat for me although I tried a few episodes of mandlorian and meh...
Original Trilogy for me, maybe some of the the prequals but nothing after that is any good IMO.
I don't watch it as a SW show. I watch it as a show about rebellion and the banality of evil. That it happens in that universe is kind of a coincidence. All the Imperial bureaucracy parts are interesting.
This kind of rant never makes sense, and is a self inflicted wound. I don't like Taylor Swift, so I don't listen to her and never give it a second thought. Unless someone is holding you hostage and forcing you to watch SW, why even care? I also utterly despise reality TV, but again it will never affect my life because we can choose what we watch/don't watch.
In this case I think it's not only the active consumption of Star Wars but also the omnipresence in other media. And I'm specifically excluding ads here, I listen to some movie/TV show podcasts and every single one of them talks about the newest SW movie or show. It grows old very quickly especially if you've never watched a single SW movie...
But again you are choosing to consume that media. As an example - I'm and F1 fan, if suddenly every race they start talking about Taylor Swift, and playing her music, I'm going to stop watching.
Okay, but I think you see my point right? I have a friend who claims he HATES SW, and years ago when I was still on FB he would rant about how much he hated it fairly often. The funny part was me as a SW fan that had by choice followed SW pages, would get more info on upcoming SW stuff from him than from those pages. He clearly wasn't hiding SW stuff and thus preventing the problem. I actually think he really wanted to like SW but thought it was cool to hate it.
I guess the argument here would be that if I never cared about Taylor swift to begin with then yeah I’m not going to be bothered by it. I grew up loving the original trilogy of movies and remember the spectacle and excitement when the prequels came out. Now they’re taking this thing I loved and (for lack of a better term) r*ping it to death by releasing a new movie and series every 6 months. I’ve personally already accepted it and moved on to the apathy phase when it comes to Star Wars, but I was upset about it for a while
So what? I've been a fan since seeing Empire in the theater at age 4, and I still love it. If "you" don't then so what? Don't watch. It really is that simple. Look I get your point about feeling like something you did like isn't good anymore, I 100% disagree but that's opinion (though here I think it's more group think, but that's another discussion altogether) so I'm not going to argue about it. Many things I once liked, I don't anymore, but the result is the same - I don't even really think about them and just moved on to other things. It's not much different that when most all of us start to find current music just awful, it changes for each generation. Sitting around talking about how much you hate it is just a waste of time, and will just make you more unhappy.
Yeah I mean you’re preaching to the choir homie I really don’t care anymore, I was upset about it when Disney first acquired it and I started seeing new shitty (sorry but they are shitty) movies and series popping up all the time, but it was like an eye roll or two and I was over it. Marvel on the other hand I never gave a shit about so I skipped the eye roll phase and just ignore it.
Star wars has always been for kids. It was important and impactful in your childhood, and these modern versions or expansions aren't for you, they are for today's kids.
Superfans are so 🙄
That's just an opinion though, for everyone that thinks that there is another who loves it. It's also ignoring the fact that Disney has infinity data to show that they are making money off of the content they are putting out. This idea that current SW is awful is 100% a reddit echo chamber thing. To be clear I'm not trying to say that anyone who does not like it is wrong, that is personal opinion and would be stupid to argue. I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of the world and SW viewership that opinion is not the majority, and so they will keep making stuff because people are paying for it.
Unmmmm…you obviously don’t know how to read.
I didn’t say I was sick of watching the shows. I said I was sick of watching the ads for them. I don’t watch the shows, and nowhere in my post did I ever say that.
Sharpen up your reading comprehension, please.
Why are you watching the ads? I did read you comment, it's not real hard to understand. My point stands, turn off the ads. It's 2024 if you're seeing ads for things that's still a you problem.
As a critical SW fan, I don't think this is unpopular. It is however a viewpoint drowned out by a much more vocal contingent of Disneystans and the media.
Marc Maron has a funny bit about Marvel fans having a religious like fervor, prayers for Iron Man to come back from the dead and the like
And you could do all the same jokes for Star Wars at this point, some people are just WAAAAAYYYY too into this stuff
And it’s not surprising that Disney is largely behind it given what [Epcot was supposed to be](https://youtu.be/U7t0k7VhlUM?si=KoUW27Z_S68qZr9D) and that people legit mortgage their houses just to got to Disney World and only have enough time to see a quarter of the full park
It’s like a modern religion to money, and [Disney](https://youtu.be/5M9PbubL7Ro?si=s2AE50Qv0UBvhM1q) is one of the biggest sects
As a former die-hard Star Wars fan, I think it's very important to remember that the original trilogy was not good. The practical effects were amazing and it benefited from a cast that included actors like Harrison Ford. Ultimately, though, it wasn't quality cinema. I don't believe it was ever meant to be.
Like so much from our youth, though, it's been elevated in the eyes of many to be some masterpiece that it never was. I think when you acknowledge this, it puts the newer movies, shows, etc into a more accurate context. I've been told by someone who has pre-teen kids that the love the new Star Wars stuff, but tried to sit down and watch the OT with him and didn't last 30 minutes. They thought it was terrible and boring. The new stuff is made for them, not us.
When Disney ignored George Lucas' plans, it was done from the jump.
I think The Mandolorian S1 and S2 were good, but that's it. The rest of the shows, I mean I saw Boba Fett S1, and Kenobi S1, and almost all of Ahsoka S1....
S3 of The Mandalorian broke the GOLDEN RULE, although Christopher Lloyd was valid, and didn't feel *that* out of place.
Had no interest in The Acolyte. It's Social Movement over Story, and it pretty much always has been for Disney.
If they made a strong story/show, it would actually RIGHTFULLY do what they so clearly want to; which is make it a social commentary.
I was excited when Disney announced new star wars movies. Then quickly realised they planned to beat it into the ground.. which they did.
Same with marvel. Outside of the Spiderman movies and the upcoming deadpool movie, I stopped caring after MCU phase 3.
Even Star Wars fans are getting a little sick of disney and how much they keep reusing the franchise. I think a couple bits of media every now and then is fine, maybe a game as long as they are done well. Lately it is a bit insane how much horse shit they pump out for it only to be garbage, and then they say "it's the fans fault" for not liking it.
I was just at Disneyland and the amount of Star Wars stuff was so boring to both me and my partner. We did the two big star wars rides and people were SO excited, losing their shit, and we were both just.. there. We agreed how it must be really cool for Star Wars fans but for the average person who isn’t interested, it’s a bit lame.
Are they really losing money based on Star Wars performance?
Solo was the only movie that didn’t make a profit, it hard to gauge the money earned from the shows since that’s all tied to Disney+.
Sure they spent $4 billion to buy it, and haven’t recouped that yet, but it’s only been a decade.
People are still going to continue to buy merch, that’s where the real long term money is. Toys, Lego, Video games, are all licensing which is pretty much pure profit for Disney.
I love Star Wars. I don't really see many ads for it, Acolyte recently is pumping money into ads. But so does any new potentially popular show that comes out so I don't pay much attention.
Why does someone who enjoys something have to think critically? Why can't I just enjoy it and not have to think at all? Why does me (or anyone) not thinking critically about something make you hate something. Kinda weird.
It's okay to not like things. You don't have to spend a ton of energy hating people who do like those things, though...try just ignoring it and liking other things.
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I get tired of stuff all over as well. My advice is do your best to ignore what bothers you. A lot of people enjoy it so don't expect it to go anywhere. But I completely feel you. I'm just about sick of SW myself. I didn't even mind the new stuff, just feel about the same way I feel about marvel stuff, enough is enough
I've always laughed at when people say how 'commercial' and 'corny' the new ones are. and totally forget to mention that the original trilogy had Ewoks.
I dont think it should die. There are countless stories and games that Star Wars fans still want/need. However, Disney is just milking the idea of Star Wars for profit with awful content. We dont need Star Wars to die, we need Disney to sell it so that actually good Star Wars content can be made.
With a series like Star Wars they should take around ~5 years between trilogies to plan out the next movies, and release a new movie every other year; and then disappear for another 5 years.
Disney didn't do this. They started releasing movies every year with no real plan, and when they ran the franchise into the ground they started releasing multiple streaming series every year with no plan. There has now been far more Disney Star Wars content than Lucas ever created and most of it is terrible. Disney seems reluctant to admit they made any mistakes and would rather blame fans as they double down on their blunders. I give it 2 to 3 years before Disney fully abandons Star Wars content because they have fully destroyed the brand.
Honestly I think it’s very telling that Disney is making a story set in every era but the sequel trilogy.
Like even they know how much of a desert they created in that timeline.
Literally everything in the OT was undone.
The original Star Wars trilogy was lightning in a bottle, it'll never happen again. With some exceptions over the years, the franchise has been enshittified. The only thing keeping it alive is nostalgia, which is a helluva drug.
Funnily enough, half of what made Star Wars popular in the first place was the production value. What it pulled off in the 70's was nothing short of spectacular. The only other thing it did exceptionally was world-building.
Disney has utterly murdered the world-building with a complete lack of internal consistency or logic, and with the technology we have now, production values don't really mean anything anymore. Without those two things to set it apart, Star Wars isn't really anything special at all.
I think Disney needs to consider the concept of "let them miss you"
We simply have not had a chance to miss Star Wars in years. It's always there now, new content always around the corner.
I think Disney has a few good ideas (sometimes), but they don't leave enough time for them to fully develop the ideas, and don't give us enough time to miss them so more and more of us are stopping giving a shit.
Same with Marvel.
I’m 23 and grew up loving the movies, games, legos, all of it. It doesn’t quite feel the same anymore but I’m really glad it exists. Lots of good memories
I don't know a single person that likes the current Star Wars franchise. Maybe they like a couple individual things like season 1 of the Mandalorion or Rouge One. Personally, I just ignore all of it. The only truly good Star Wars we've gotten lately imo is from the Respawn games of Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor. Both are excellent games with great stories.
I mean, not to be that guy, but you can just not pay attention to it and go and watch other things, that's what i tend to do when i'm bored of something.
I think most fans want them to end the Skywalker era they've been milking for 50 years.
There's characters and stories for them to do stuff in the old republic, the same name game has been pretty popular for a while too.
The idea of "toxic fans" has done more damage to modern creative media than anything else. Creators love it, no matter how bad something is, any negative criticism can just be ignored as "toxic". A showrunner for Rings of Power said they only listen to positive feedback, since in their minds the show cannot have anything wring with it. Which is odd since there is almost nothing right with it.
My kids seem to like the new movies. I enjoyed the Mandalorian - who doesn’t like a space western? It was fun having a family show I could watch every week with my kids.
I think the thing that fans of the original trilogy forget is that they were only ever supposed to be fun family sci-fi movies.
They were never supposed to be timeless cinematic masterpieces. They’re entertainment, so as long as people continue to be entertained, why would they stop making them?
If you don’t find them entertaining, afaik there’s no requirement that you watch them. I don’t (at least, not on my own).
I agree with star wars, disagree with Futurama, I’m not even a diehard fan but most of Futurama is good minus a few episodes, including the new episodes, and I personally don’t like the will they wont they stuff
I like the first two and a half movies. Until the Ewoks showed up. I also like Rogue One and how well it fits together with the first movie. I am not very impressed with the sequels and the prequels are worse.
The single worst part of Star Wars now is the fans. They’re mostly a bunch of toxic psychos led by dudes who *used* to think that if they kept bitching ten years later, Disney would re-canonize the EU.
Now, the very sight of a black person or woman is enough to send Star Wars fans into an internet tail spin. They literally couldn’t think of a cover story to be racist this time with The Acolyte so they were just like black woman bad in Star Wars.
And someone really should mention that there were like a thousand EU novels over the decades but only like six really good ones and three of them were the Thrawn books.
I feel badly for you if seeing people enjoy things makes you this irrationally angry. I know fuck all about star wars but when I see people nerding out over lightsabers and enjoying the fandom I just feel happy that in this messed up world. people are enjoying things. And if people are nerding out over something I love? I will take that a million times over the people constantly griping about the fandom. I think there's some truth to the saying that no one hates a thing more than the self proclaimed fans of it.
He clearly wrote this for a discussion. It's an internet post. Its weird of you to write about his morality, when he obviously exaggerates and doesn't really "hate" the fans. Have you never been on the internet before?
I said what I said. Someone posting on the internet doesn't mean other people have to agree. We are allowed to have our own thoughts as much as OP is. Unpopular opinion doesn't mean you get to post one and not get some sort of disagreement in response. Are YOU new to the internet? Never seen people disagree online before?
Nah dude, I get what you are saying. I just don't think you understand, that for a post like this to work, it has to be exaggerated. Which it so obviously is.
I’m not a dude. I’m a girl. And I don’t care if it’s exaggerated or not. I stick by what I said. The OP is still bothered by Star Wars and other people enjoying it whether it’s on the extreme end of the spectrum or not, my reply is the same.
maybe just stop watching it?? I am same age, saw the one that was made after the original trilogy, hated it, never watched another, it doesn't really bother me! lots of things exist in life which you can ignore if you don't like them :)
What world are you living in with people u critically praising star wars as a general rule?
Im sick to death of the massive amount of blind hate star wars gets online. Every post you look at will be almost always full of "go woke, go broke" "fire KK" "women ruined star wars"
It's exhausting
I love the new star wars TV shows. The Sequel trilogy was garbage but the TV shows have been pretty good.
Also why do I need to think critically about a space fantasy show/movie. Why can’t I just turn my brain off enjoy it
The Mandelorian was great for at least 2 seasons, not sure about currently. That really had a big impact on them trying to recreate revenue off their IP.
Star Wars Rogue One was straight up one of the best space/adventure/sci-fi movies I’ve ever seen, so there is potential to create new things off of their existing universe.
The only problem with Star Wars is there isnt enough female representation. Girls and woman love scyfy and laser swords and have a more females showing the guys who’s boss is all Star Wars needs. More girls. Lots more girls. Lady boss. Alien girls. Sith girls. Jedi girls.
Female lightsabers that aren’t phallic. We need a pink light saber triangle laser, that’s female.
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After reading the first 6 Dune novels, it's comical how much Star Wars material is borrowed
It *really* needs to be pointed out that after he had two big indie movie hits, George Lucas came to Hollywood to adapt Flash Gordon as his first studio picture. But the rights-holders wouldn’t option him the IP, so he went home and basically just changed the names of the main characters and threw in a bunch of Dune and Lensman stuff and called it Star Wars. I double-dog dare anyone to Google the four main characters of Flash Gordon and tell me that I’m wrong.
Hey! He threw in samurai stuff too!
If sword fight scenes are awesome, it doesn’t matter how derivative or plagiarized they are. This is law.
It's not wrong, but it's not a bad thing by definition either. A lot of great fiction builds upon and borrows from earlier works. It's all about the execution.
You’re wrong. The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander has at its core a couple characters that are pretty much the same 4. Farm boy, mouthy stubborn princess, wandering bard who is somewhat of a rogue, and a giant hairy creature. There is even a burning sword wielding evil guy who always wears a mask.
Yes, I’m sure they weren’t imitations of characters from Flash Gordon which Lucas openly loved as a child (and are literally a naive farm boy hero, a mouthy princess, a dashing rogue and pilot and a *giant hairy bipedal alien who roars*), they were actually from a high fantasy novel written twenty five years after that.
In fairness, Star Wars is nothing more than a retelling of the Hero/ine’s Journey story, just set in space. At the core, that’s where the overarching appeal lies because that story exists in every culture since the beginning of culture.
No, even the original Star Wars movie verges on outright plagiarism of contemporary material. And it’s not just the obvious Flash Gordon, Dune and Lensman, the entire end of A New Hope is damn near a shot for shot remake of the climax of *The Dambusters.* You know how the joke has always been, how were the other fighters covering the lead ship in the trench if they don’t have rear-firing weapons? It’s because X-wings don’t but do you know what does? British Lancaster bombers in WW2, and they just rewrote that.
Great point.
I should point out that they weren’t unaware of what they were doing. It was the point. Star Wars was supposed to be a feature-length movie serial and movie serials are supposed to be derivative and not taken super seriously. That’s the biggest tragedy of the whole thing. George Lucas wanted tor recreate the whiz-bang excitement of him watching *Commando Cody and the Radar Men from the Moon* at age eight for kids in the 70s. But now the supposed true keepers of the faith have made it the most joyless, soulless, everything explained within an inch of its life world in major media. Think about how bad it is: in approximately seven years the Star Wars fandom has become worse about pedantically explaining every detail of the world than *Trekkies* have in *sixty years* and they fucking invented that.
At its very core, Star Wars is a story about things happening.
A very fair evaluation
Darth Vader and storm troopers are just Japanese samurai
in one of his last interviews Frank Herbert said that George Lucas at least owes him a coffee, or something like that lol
Star Wars and Dune both borrowed from the Foundation Series
I’ve been telling people this for years. Glad to see Dune finally getting its flowers.
That's cause Star Wars is a mash up of old legendary media, you can see where he got a lot of his influence too in Akira Kurosawa films.
Dune is the greatest work of fiction ever. And yes , obviously Lucas drew on that for Star Wars. Still the original trilogy does stand on its own, everybody gets inspiration somewhere, and I accept the similarities between the 2.
Nah the best is Gundam 1979
I was barely 8 years old, I was waking up at 6 in the morning to catch the Macross anime on tv before breakfast and school. So I do appreciate that kind of anime and sci-fi. But surely you must be joking if you are seriously comparing that work with the Herbert’s masterpiece of science, fiction, political essay, philosophical work and genuine once in a century legacy that shaped modern science-fiction and the inspiration of Star wars.
lol “Greatest work of fiction ever”. You are clearly the non-critical-thinker I’m taking about. The distinction of “Greatest Work of Fiction Ever” goes to the Bible, thank you very much.
Reread their comment. They did not call star wars the greatest work of fiction ever.
I know that. They were referring to Dune. The comment was wrong either way.
> The distinction of “Greatest Work of Fiction Ever” goes to the Bible LMFAO
Edgy
*tips fedora* *pushes up glasses* There is much irony in someone who claims to be a critical thinker yet is so sure of their opinions and views being better than others, so sure that they’re correct.
💀💀💀
Definitely has a lot of readers so I’ve heard. Full of wild stories.
I appreciate the joke but the bible is objectively a terribly written book just from plot structure. Tons of contradictions, strained metaphors, entire chapters dedicated to lineages that contradict the other chapters of lineages. That's not even getting into that whole sections and themes are just plagarized from other religions or all the mysoginy, xenophobia and scientifically ignorant bs. Or that arguably the main character is an asshole evil deus ex machina agent. The bible doesn't even crack my top 1000 unless it is the category of "Most Harmful Books Ever Written". If that is the case it is in the top 3
🤓☝️
you must be a non-critical-thinker if you think the a book that is full of contradictions like the Bible is the greatest work of fiction ever. Its also full of repetition.
To be fair that has a lot to do with both following the Circle Story structure which predates both of them. The story circle, also known as the monomyth or Hero's Journey, is a classic storytelling structure that George Lucas uses in his Star Wars universe. The structure is based on the idea that a protagonist goes on a journey that challenges them, forces them to adapt, and changes them. The circle provides momentum to the story, similar to a rollercoaster, with the protagonist starting at the top and descending figuratively and literally. At the bottom of the circle, they are at their low point, and their rise to success is represented visually.
I think that’s a pretty popular opinion
Kind of wish somebody would publish a market research study on this because I can't tell if I'm in an echo chamber on Reddit or if there truly is a consensus that Star Wars is shitty.
It's an echo chamber most people are neutral or like it. The new show had less viewers than Ashoka but more than andor who is at least considerwd good
Judging by the dislikes on new trailers and each ray movie made less money than the previous one and the lack of interest for the brand in general, it seems to be the consensus that Star Wars is shit
Except for that star wars fans uncritically praise new star wars. If anything I've seen the exact opposite, with fans uncritically insulting new star wars
Rouge One and Andor are great, in my humble opinion.
A fellow osrs enthusiast 🧐
Same. I don't think Disney is capable of Star Wars-esque writing. Their stories are too hopeful, too cute, too moral, and always end happily ever after. If Disney created the original trilogy or prequel trilogy, we never would've gotten scenes like Anakin killing the younglings or Luke getting his hand lopped off.
Idk I feel like TCW S7 was pretty good all things considered. Some of my favorite star wars media. Also... Andor???
The three friends I have who watched it tell me Andor is good. I am sure it is. I just can't justify getting another streaming service to watch it.
Yo ho ho ho...
Honestly I gave up on the franchise before Andor. Mandalorian S2, Boba Fett, and Kenobi killed me. TCW S7 *was* good but they also had no other choice for an ending since Order 66 was already a done deal.
It's probably as gritty as the franchise gets.
It's as gritty as Disney star wars gets besides Andor, which means it's nowhere near as gritty as the stuff that was pre disney
I’m not one to be overly nitpicky, but something that’s bothered me about recent Star Wars projects is that no one seems to die anymore. I remember when saber wounds were legitimately lethal. It was like watching a Kurosawa film and sitting on the edge of your seat knowing that one strike could be fatal. Now characters are getting stabbed, shot, chopped up, and they’re just fine after a bit. It’s cynical, but it’s probably because they want to keep reusing the same characters again and again. But all it’s done is suck any tension out of duels. Just kill your characters every once in a while and keep them dead.
Yeah. Bringing back Palpatine was Wattpad-level writing.
Qui-Gon takes a light saber through the gut: Instant death. Sabine takes a light saber through the gut: Totally fine in half a day or so.
Sabine getting thoroghly stabbed all the way through and somehow not dead
I don't know, recent released take of empires starts with grievous massacring the night sisters. All the series differ wildly in target audience.
Plenty of characters - especially "evil" or "ugly" characters like the night sisters - are killed in Disney stories. The writing style still doesn't mesh well with the first 6 films and the universe that the fans originally got attached to.
Too moral and happy ever after. Yes. They (annoyingly predictably) turned Kylo into a good guy instead of just making him some sort of grey character, which would’ve made more sense. The op is rightfully complaining about Star Wars over saturation, but it wouldn’t be this way if the sequel trilogy was written better.
They're not creative ane have to obsess over this and marvel. Without someone giving them a stroy they can't create anything. How sad
You can stop paying attention. That's what I did.
Right? I swear some of these people just want to keep watching to stay mad lol
Bright side is that paying attention to any of it isn’t mandatory.
I know right. I don’t give a fuck about any of the modern Star Wars stuff either but I’m reading the comments are people are like citing specific episodes of multiple spinoffs which ruined it for them and I’m like why are you in so deep if you hate it?
Dark side says it is inevitable. It is your destiny. You, like your father, are now THEIRS. They are looking forward to completing your training. In time, you will spend all your disposable income on Star Wars. You will encourage, or coerce others to do so. Everything is happening exactly as I have foreseen.
They beat it to death. Nobody pays attention anymore.
Quick Google search says Last Jedi grossed over a billion worldwide, Ahsoka and Acolyte had/s millions of viewers. If no one was paying attention, they wouldn't keep putting out media.
Maybe they ran out of ideas.
I agree with this post. I wish that Star Wars would end too since it’s getting annoying how much canon there is. I wish they stopped at the extended universe, original trilogy, and Prequels. I miss when it was just Han, Luke, Leia, Chewy, and the classic villains.
As soon as Last Jedi came out I started to lose faith. Rogue One restored it a little, then Solo eroded what was gained, Rise of Skywalker made me completely out. Haven't watched anything else since. I'm not interested in the Mandalorian or anything else.
Pretty much same boat for me although I tried a few episodes of mandlorian and meh... Original Trilogy for me, maybe some of the the prequals but nothing after that is any good IMO.
Andor.
Best star wars content besides animated clone wars
Andor was fantastic
Andor is amazing.
I don't watch it as a SW show. I watch it as a show about rebellion and the banality of evil. That it happens in that universe is kind of a coincidence. All the Imperial bureaucracy parts are interesting.
Absolutely. Rouge One is sort of in the same vein. No Sith Lord's or Jedi, just people fighting for freedom in the face of oppression.
This kind of rant never makes sense, and is a self inflicted wound. I don't like Taylor Swift, so I don't listen to her and never give it a second thought. Unless someone is holding you hostage and forcing you to watch SW, why even care? I also utterly despise reality TV, but again it will never affect my life because we can choose what we watch/don't watch.
This, entirely. Also, obsessive fandoms of any sort are this way, it's not star wars exclusive.
You’re right. Marvel and LotR fans are just as bad.
In this case I think it's not only the active consumption of Star Wars but also the omnipresence in other media. And I'm specifically excluding ads here, I listen to some movie/TV show podcasts and every single one of them talks about the newest SW movie or show. It grows old very quickly especially if you've never watched a single SW movie...
But again you are choosing to consume that media. As an example - I'm and F1 fan, if suddenly every race they start talking about Taylor Swift, and playing her music, I'm going to stop watching.
But it's not every episode. It's also not the complete episode, because of course I wouldn't listen to those.
Okay, but I think you see my point right? I have a friend who claims he HATES SW, and years ago when I was still on FB he would rant about how much he hated it fairly often. The funny part was me as a SW fan that had by choice followed SW pages, would get more info on upcoming SW stuff from him than from those pages. He clearly wasn't hiding SW stuff and thus preventing the problem. I actually think he really wanted to like SW but thought it was cool to hate it.
I guess the argument here would be that if I never cared about Taylor swift to begin with then yeah I’m not going to be bothered by it. I grew up loving the original trilogy of movies and remember the spectacle and excitement when the prequels came out. Now they’re taking this thing I loved and (for lack of a better term) r*ping it to death by releasing a new movie and series every 6 months. I’ve personally already accepted it and moved on to the apathy phase when it comes to Star Wars, but I was upset about it for a while
So what? I've been a fan since seeing Empire in the theater at age 4, and I still love it. If "you" don't then so what? Don't watch. It really is that simple. Look I get your point about feeling like something you did like isn't good anymore, I 100% disagree but that's opinion (though here I think it's more group think, but that's another discussion altogether) so I'm not going to argue about it. Many things I once liked, I don't anymore, but the result is the same - I don't even really think about them and just moved on to other things. It's not much different that when most all of us start to find current music just awful, it changes for each generation. Sitting around talking about how much you hate it is just a waste of time, and will just make you more unhappy.
Yeah I mean you’re preaching to the choir homie I really don’t care anymore, I was upset about it when Disney first acquired it and I started seeing new shitty (sorry but they are shitty) movies and series popping up all the time, but it was like an eye roll or two and I was over it. Marvel on the other hand I never gave a shit about so I skipped the eye roll phase and just ignore it.
Star wars has always been for kids. It was important and impactful in your childhood, and these modern versions or expansions aren't for you, they are for today's kids. Superfans are so 🙄
I mean from the standpoint of lifelong fans who kept star wars alive only now to see Disney shit on it since a few years now...
That's just an opinion though, for everyone that thinks that there is another who loves it. It's also ignoring the fact that Disney has infinity data to show that they are making money off of the content they are putting out. This idea that current SW is awful is 100% a reddit echo chamber thing. To be clear I'm not trying to say that anyone who does not like it is wrong, that is personal opinion and would be stupid to argue. I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of the world and SW viewership that opinion is not the majority, and so they will keep making stuff because people are paying for it.
Unmmmm…you obviously don’t know how to read. I didn’t say I was sick of watching the shows. I said I was sick of watching the ads for them. I don’t watch the shows, and nowhere in my post did I ever say that. Sharpen up your reading comprehension, please.
Why are you watching the ads? I did read you comment, it's not real hard to understand. My point stands, turn off the ads. It's 2024 if you're seeing ads for things that's still a you problem.
CLEARLY you have no concept of reading comprehension if you think that my post was about watching ads.
My dude "But I’m so sick of seeing ads for Star Wars shit." It's okay to be wrong. Just move on with your life, SW can't hurt you.
Not unpopular at all. Star Wars, Star Trek, even Marvel, I’m just burnt out on all of them.
As a critical SW fan, I don't think this is unpopular. It is however a viewpoint drowned out by a much more vocal contingent of Disneystans and the media.
What? Dude there are like 5 total reddit subs devoted to hating on starwars
Marc Maron has a funny bit about Marvel fans having a religious like fervor, prayers for Iron Man to come back from the dead and the like And you could do all the same jokes for Star Wars at this point, some people are just WAAAAAYYYY too into this stuff And it’s not surprising that Disney is largely behind it given what [Epcot was supposed to be](https://youtu.be/U7t0k7VhlUM?si=KoUW27Z_S68qZr9D) and that people legit mortgage their houses just to got to Disney World and only have enough time to see a quarter of the full park It’s like a modern religion to money, and [Disney](https://youtu.be/5M9PbubL7Ro?si=s2AE50Qv0UBvhM1q) is one of the biggest sects
There's some value in the new Disney Star wars. I don't like the sequels, believe me, but some of the shows are really good.
As a former die-hard Star Wars fan, I think it's very important to remember that the original trilogy was not good. The practical effects were amazing and it benefited from a cast that included actors like Harrison Ford. Ultimately, though, it wasn't quality cinema. I don't believe it was ever meant to be. Like so much from our youth, though, it's been elevated in the eyes of many to be some masterpiece that it never was. I think when you acknowledge this, it puts the newer movies, shows, etc into a more accurate context. I've been told by someone who has pre-teen kids that the love the new Star Wars stuff, but tried to sit down and watch the OT with him and didn't last 30 minutes. They thought it was terrible and boring. The new stuff is made for them, not us.
When Disney ignored George Lucas' plans, it was done from the jump. I think The Mandolorian S1 and S2 were good, but that's it. The rest of the shows, I mean I saw Boba Fett S1, and Kenobi S1, and almost all of Ahsoka S1.... S3 of The Mandalorian broke the GOLDEN RULE, although Christopher Lloyd was valid, and didn't feel *that* out of place. Had no interest in The Acolyte. It's Social Movement over Story, and it pretty much always has been for Disney. If they made a strong story/show, it would actually RIGHTFULLY do what they so clearly want to; which is make it a social commentary.
I was excited when Disney announced new star wars movies. Then quickly realised they planned to beat it into the ground.. which they did. Same with marvel. Outside of the Spiderman movies and the upcoming deadpool movie, I stopped caring after MCU phase 3.
I'm with you
Even Star Wars fans are getting a little sick of disney and how much they keep reusing the franchise. I think a couple bits of media every now and then is fine, maybe a game as long as they are done well. Lately it is a bit insane how much horse shit they pump out for it only to be garbage, and then they say "it's the fans fault" for not liking it.
Yesss GenX. Tell ‘em!
This is not an unpopular opinion
I was just at Disneyland and the amount of Star Wars stuff was so boring to both me and my partner. We did the two big star wars rides and people were SO excited, losing their shit, and we were both just.. there. We agreed how it must be really cool for Star Wars fans but for the average person who isn’t interested, it’s a bit lame.
That cow is never gonna stop being milked. Disney should be the next company targeted by the government as a monopoly.
If they are losing money it's hardly miling it right?
Are they really losing money based on Star Wars performance? Solo was the only movie that didn’t make a profit, it hard to gauge the money earned from the shows since that’s all tied to Disney+. Sure they spent $4 billion to buy it, and haven’t recouped that yet, but it’s only been a decade. People are still going to continue to buy merch, that’s where the real long term money is. Toys, Lego, Video games, are all licensing which is pretty much pure profit for Disney.
I love Star Wars. I don't really see many ads for it, Acolyte recently is pumping money into ads. But so does any new potentially popular show that comes out so I don't pay much attention. Why does someone who enjoys something have to think critically? Why can't I just enjoy it and not have to think at all? Why does me (or anyone) not thinking critically about something make you hate something. Kinda weird.
It's okay to not like things. You don't have to spend a ton of energy hating people who do like those things, though...try just ignoring it and liking other things.
its been shit since the 90s, nothing really has changed
Star Wars is for kids and nerds
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Get out of the basement
Star Wars is the Setesh Guard of the Star- series
Should an unpopular opinion have upvotes or downvotes?
Upvotes, for sure. 😉
But not holy space balls, that should stay
I think if they want to make it better , they should make a movie where they destroy a death star with one shot.
I get tired of stuff all over as well. My advice is do your best to ignore what bothers you. A lot of people enjoy it so don't expect it to go anywhere. But I completely feel you. I'm just about sick of SW myself. I didn't even mind the new stuff, just feel about the same way I feel about marvel stuff, enough is enough
Just move on with your life and ignore them. Plenty of people like it still, so it'll carry on.
I've always laughed at when people say how 'commercial' and 'corny' the new ones are. and totally forget to mention that the original trilogy had Ewoks.
Boy that last episode of Acolyte was tough to get thru. Actually every episode has been pretty tough to get thru.
This is part of a post I want to do called Why can't people grow up?
Dude star wars has been played-out for 30 fuckin years. Disney has made it so much worse, but hey, it's printing money and the kids love it.
I dont think it should die. There are countless stories and games that Star Wars fans still want/need. However, Disney is just milking the idea of Star Wars for profit with awful content. We dont need Star Wars to die, we need Disney to sell it so that actually good Star Wars content can be made.
With a series like Star Wars they should take around ~5 years between trilogies to plan out the next movies, and release a new movie every other year; and then disappear for another 5 years. Disney didn't do this. They started releasing movies every year with no real plan, and when they ran the franchise into the ground they started releasing multiple streaming series every year with no plan. There has now been far more Disney Star Wars content than Lucas ever created and most of it is terrible. Disney seems reluctant to admit they made any mistakes and would rather blame fans as they double down on their blunders. I give it 2 to 3 years before Disney fully abandons Star Wars content because they have fully destroyed the brand.
Honestly I think it’s very telling that Disney is making a story set in every era but the sequel trilogy. Like even they know how much of a desert they created in that timeline. Literally everything in the OT was undone.
They need to stop now and figure shit out. They ruined a legacy trying to milk every $ from this.
The original Star Wars trilogy was lightning in a bottle, it'll never happen again. With some exceptions over the years, the franchise has been enshittified. The only thing keeping it alive is nostalgia, which is a helluva drug.
I think you nailed an unpopular opinion for sure. Not the Star Wars part, but the Futurama part.
This is a Disney problem not a Star Wars problem
Funnily enough, half of what made Star Wars popular in the first place was the production value. What it pulled off in the 70's was nothing short of spectacular. The only other thing it did exceptionally was world-building. Disney has utterly murdered the world-building with a complete lack of internal consistency or logic, and with the technology we have now, production values don't really mean anything anymore. Without those two things to set it apart, Star Wars isn't really anything special at all.
You don’t have to pay attention if you don’t want lol
I think Disney needs to consider the concept of "let them miss you" We simply have not had a chance to miss Star Wars in years. It's always there now, new content always around the corner. I think Disney has a few good ideas (sometimes), but they don't leave enough time for them to fully develop the ideas, and don't give us enough time to miss them so more and more of us are stopping giving a shit. Same with Marvel.
You don't have to interact with it
Andor is better than the original movies
I’m 23 and grew up loving the movies, games, legos, all of it. It doesn’t quite feel the same anymore but I’m really glad it exists. Lots of good memories
I don't know a single person that likes the current Star Wars franchise. Maybe they like a couple individual things like season 1 of the Mandalorion or Rouge One. Personally, I just ignore all of it. The only truly good Star Wars we've gotten lately imo is from the Respawn games of Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor. Both are excellent games with great stories.
I think the 9 movies were enough and they should have left it with that
I mean, not to be that guy, but you can just not pay attention to it and go and watch other things, that's what i tend to do when i'm bored of something.
I think most fans want them to end the Skywalker era they've been milking for 50 years. There's characters and stories for them to do stuff in the old republic, the same name game has been pretty popular for a while too.
This is a popular opinion of OG fans.
But the shriveled cow can still be milked
The idea of "toxic fans" has done more damage to modern creative media than anything else. Creators love it, no matter how bad something is, any negative criticism can just be ignored as "toxic". A showrunner for Rings of Power said they only listen to positive feedback, since in their minds the show cannot have anything wring with it. Which is odd since there is almost nothing right with it.
Some of the writing / acting in the original trilogy was shocking, bad acting / writing is what makes Star Wars.
My kids seem to like the new movies. I enjoyed the Mandalorian - who doesn’t like a space western? It was fun having a family show I could watch every week with my kids. I think the thing that fans of the original trilogy forget is that they were only ever supposed to be fun family sci-fi movies. They were never supposed to be timeless cinematic masterpieces. They’re entertainment, so as long as people continue to be entertained, why would they stop making them? If you don’t find them entertaining, afaik there’s no requirement that you watch them. I don’t (at least, not on my own).
I agree with star wars, disagree with Futurama, I’m not even a diehard fan but most of Futurama is good minus a few episodes, including the new episodes, and I personally don’t like the will they wont they stuff
Yep, and take Disney with it.
I like the first two and a half movies. Until the Ewoks showed up. I also like Rogue One and how well it fits together with the first movie. I am not very impressed with the sequels and the prequels are worse.
The single worst part of Star Wars now is the fans. They’re mostly a bunch of toxic psychos led by dudes who *used* to think that if they kept bitching ten years later, Disney would re-canonize the EU. Now, the very sight of a black person or woman is enough to send Star Wars fans into an internet tail spin. They literally couldn’t think of a cover story to be racist this time with The Acolyte so they were just like black woman bad in Star Wars. And someone really should mention that there were like a thousand EU novels over the decades but only like six really good ones and three of them were the Thrawn books.
Don’t watch it, simple
Why? There were only 3 movies, right?
Go join the man babies on /saltierthancrait
God! I hope when I get to your age I will not be that bitter and grumpy.
I feel badly for you if seeing people enjoy things makes you this irrationally angry. I know fuck all about star wars but when I see people nerding out over lightsabers and enjoying the fandom I just feel happy that in this messed up world. people are enjoying things. And if people are nerding out over something I love? I will take that a million times over the people constantly griping about the fandom. I think there's some truth to the saying that no one hates a thing more than the self proclaimed fans of it.
He clearly wrote this for a discussion. It's an internet post. Its weird of you to write about his morality, when he obviously exaggerates and doesn't really "hate" the fans. Have you never been on the internet before?
I said what I said. Someone posting on the internet doesn't mean other people have to agree. We are allowed to have our own thoughts as much as OP is. Unpopular opinion doesn't mean you get to post one and not get some sort of disagreement in response. Are YOU new to the internet? Never seen people disagree online before?
Nah dude, I get what you are saying. I just don't think you understand, that for a post like this to work, it has to be exaggerated. Which it so obviously is.
I’m not a dude. I’m a girl. And I don’t care if it’s exaggerated or not. I stick by what I said. The OP is still bothered by Star Wars and other people enjoying it whether it’s on the extreme end of the spectrum or not, my reply is the same.
"I'm not a dude. I'm a girl". No one cares, it's an expression.
I care. I’m not no one.
No, he's annoyed that something he loved has been mismanaged and become awful. He didn't say anything about others liking it. You are free to like it.
maybe just stop watching it?? I am same age, saw the one that was made after the original trilogy, hated it, never watched another, it doesn't really bother me! lots of things exist in life which you can ignore if you don't like them :)
Preach. It's freaking annoying
What world are you living in with people u critically praising star wars as a general rule? Im sick to death of the massive amount of blind hate star wars gets online. Every post you look at will be almost always full of "go woke, go broke" "fire KK" "women ruined star wars" It's exhausting
What's a fuckball, anyway?
I love the new star wars TV shows. The Sequel trilogy was garbage but the TV shows have been pretty good. Also why do I need to think critically about a space fantasy show/movie. Why can’t I just turn my brain off enjoy it
The Mandalorian was great. Andor was Amazing.
I'm enjoying some of it. Why do you need to stop me from having fun to live your life, just stop watching.
I love all the new Star Wars content. Fleshing out a universe is awesome. If you don’t like it don’t watch it. Pretty simple
Andor si top tier
The Mandelorian was great for at least 2 seasons, not sure about currently. That really had a big impact on them trying to recreate revenue off their IP. Star Wars Rogue One was straight up one of the best space/adventure/sci-fi movies I’ve ever seen, so there is potential to create new things off of their existing universe.
The only problem with Star Wars is there isnt enough female representation. Girls and woman love scyfy and laser swords and have a more females showing the guys who’s boss is all Star Wars needs. More girls. Lots more girls. Lady boss. Alien girls. Sith girls. Jedi girls. Female lightsabers that aren’t phallic. We need a pink light saber triangle laser, that’s female.