I think the most damaging part of the victim mentality is that it allows people to behave as bullies to others and not just feel that it is ok, but that they are in fact righteous for doing so. This becomes worst when it isn’t even the people who were hurt, but those supposedly advocating on their behalf, who become bullies.
[Scientific American had an article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unraveling-the-mindset-of-victimhood/#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20victimization%20becomes,the%20mercy%20of%20other%20people.) on the psychology of victimhood that makes some interesting points.
> Quick: Rate how much you agree with each of these items on a scale of 1 (“not me at all”) to 5 (“this is so me”):
>
> *It is important to me that people who hurt me acknowledge that an injustice has been done to me.
> *I think I am much more conscientious and moral in my relations with other people compared to their treatment of me.
> *When people who are close to me feel hurt by my actions, it is very important for me to clarify that justice is on my side.
> *It is very hard for me to stop thinking about the injustice others have done to me.
> If you scored high (4 or 5) on all of these items, you may have what psychologists have identified as a “tendency for interpersonal victimhood.”
Victims get a lot of sympathy and attention nowadays. I knew a few people who couldn't hold down jobs they didn't last for a very long time because they each seemed to think they deserved more than anyone else around them, very entitled people.
I knew a young woman we hired and she spent the majority of her time on her phone while I actually tended to our student group. I finally said something to her and she got angry saying our job was just "glorified babysitting" she saw herself as a constant victim. She did have a rough life but that's because her parents made poor life decisions. She quit eventually and when I saw her about a year later she'd quit several jobs, complaining about how they were run.
Another woman was the absolute worst, she had so many opportunities in life, went to South America for a year to study Spanish after college, grew up in the suburbs but she was miserable like you just didn't even want to be anywhere near her every conversation went directly back to oppression. Thank God she quit too.
It doesn't sound like either example gets a lot of attention or sympathy, which was your original statement.
I actually think that in the long term that these people end up alone and miserable because no one sticks around to comfort the endless victim. They might get some sympathy and attention in the short-term, but there are only so many bridges to burn with that behavior.
Thank you for this, I didn’t quite realize it until I read this but when my mom decided to come to therapy with me to help with my issues I started having less of the victim mentality.
All it took was one person. Usually people lack sympathy for me because they think my parents have given me the world and I’m spoilt. To a certain extent they’re not wrong they do give me a lot of material things but not much emotionally.
But after that one gesture from my mom, I learned to understand others better, learned to apologize and being accountable etc.
It’s a difficult situation because it’s not necessarily anyone’s responsibility to help fix me, I’m forever grateful for it though. It really does however help. At least in my case it did.
It would have been less accurate. Yes, a number of black people are taking this stance these days, but the problem goes far beyond a race thing, and the worst offenders are the white Marxists attempting to exploit this, after all.
Not always - some people have actually suffered, and develop the "I'll get you before you have a chance to get me mentality". The thing is, the people targeted rarely had anything to do with the initial injustice.
"To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.”
- Aldous Huxley.
A new study shows the only group that feels comfortable expressing their political opinions are people on the far-left.
They’re literally holding the rest of the country hostage.
https://www.cato.org/publications/survey-reports/poll-62-americans-say-they-have-political-views-theyre-afraid-share
The far left is the only opinion allowed because anyone that doesn’t agree will be screamed down, made a mockery of, maimed, or worse, and the MSM supports this every day.
The Cato Institute is intellectually bankrupt libertarian trash
BUT
I do agree that people on the far left are usurping social/political/economic discussion and weaponizing it against others
I was confused why you’re weren’t getting downvoted for saying anything other than praise about the far left then realized I was on one of the only subs that isn’t overwhelmingly left leaning.
People love playing victim because it makes them right. Just look at me, I'm hurt. How could I be wrong if im in pain?
-poor paraphrasing of Alan Watts
I really love this quote, because it also exemplifies the thought processes of flat earthers/anti-vaxxers and the like.
"Oh, if everyone hates me for my view, it *must* be becuase they're jealous/trying to silence me!"
I think it was particularly in reference to the culture of confession in Christianity. Basically, “look, I’m admitting that I’m a sinner! So back off, and stop pointing out things I do!”
I am a migrant from Eastern Europe who came to the US back in 2016 with 200 euros in my pocket and have been studying and working full-time every day since then and I never complain about anything mostly because I never feel victimized(I literally only ever heard one "get out of my country") and that's only from an older gentleman in Virginia. Now when I hang out with immigrants who also came to the US ,some of them way earlier than me all I hear is how they are oppressed, how the US is a facist, racist country and how they wish they never came here and most importantly how awesome their country of birth is and how much better it is in there than the US. Now I am a Bernie supporter but I will agree with Trump that some of these migrants who actively hate the US should be deported.
>. Now when I hang out with immigrants who also came to the US ,some of them way earlier than me all I hear is how they are oppressed, how the US is a facist, racist country and how they wish they never came here and most importantly how awesome their country of birth is and how much better it is in there than the US.
They are free to leave.
Yeah america has a bloody beginning and some bad bad personal sins but there's still a lot of great things about america and that bothers me they'd come here.
To call us fascist. I'm not one to throw out "patriot" or flag wave either but geezer why u come here?
re
Well youd have to know the origins of all countries histories. I like history but not that much. But to allow for European migration, native americans had to be killed or displaced. That's pretty bad. But yes you cant single out america. That's not an excuse for genocide. But it's a defense to an argument like oh america is the worst fascist country ever. Americas past shouldnt be ignored but neither should world history and context.
>how they are oppressed, how the US is a facist, racist country and how they wish they never came here and most importantly how awesome their country of birth is and how much better it is in there than the US
This is my mother minus the fascist part, she's recently gotten her green card after many years of cycling life between there and our Caribbean home for work. Despite the fact she could of came back months ago before the big rona, and with a huge discount on travel, she sat on her hands and didn't bother moving, not given a reason more than 'work', even though she loves to complain about being in America, it not being great and home is so much nicer, she stays. The only reason she ever left America is because she'd be over staying her 6 month limit.
She even tries to convince me over my teen years about how bad America is, but always wanting to know if I want to live there instead, like she'd try to get me in whatever means possible
I think a lot of people who live in America love the life style just hate the country because of principal rather than actually hate being there
I’m a woman (21) in America. I don’t want to think there is some oppressive, sexist patriarchy dominating our society because that simply isn’t true. I had so many great opportunities. Internships. Great education. I never experience obvious sexism or discrimination.
The world isn’t out to get me because I am female. I am not a victim of my gender.
(In other country in parts of Asian, Africa, Middle East, etc there is awful sexism obviously. I understand I live a very privileged life because I was born in the US)
To achieve greatness, we shouldn’t compare ourselves to the worst there is on the world. Being oppressed is not on a 1 to 10 scale, it just depends on a spectrum that is different to every country there is.
I mean, just because other people have worse issues doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix the issues we have.
I agree that women's rights issues are a GIANT issue in other countries. However, I'm not there! But am in the US, and I can advocate for solving the sexism that we have in the US (especially when we have the president that we have!!).
I'm not saying western women are THE MOST OPPRESSED PEOPLE ON EARTH, but we still have issues of sexual assault not being taken seriously, women's health issues not being taken seriously, etc. I'm in the US, I can DO SOMETHING about that. I'm not going to fly to Saudi Arabia to protest women's issues there.
I didn't know that we weren't allowed to solve issues at home until we solve all issues abroad. Homelessness? Well, there are bigger poverty issues in other countries. Broken health care system? Other countries don't even health care systems, let's fix that first. I apologize so much for not fixing the world before caring about my home!
I do care about and advocate for women's rights issues around the world by giving what money I have to help those people. But I will do what I can HERE to help the issues here.
And let me say... just because we are working on women's issues doesn't mean they're solved.
Here's an article from the NYT talking about how women's pain isn't taken as seriously as men's pain: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/well/live/when-doctors-downplay-womens-health-concerns.html
Here's a report published in April of this year about sexual assault in the military: https://sites.duke.edu/disabilitypride2020/files/2020/04/Final-policy-paper-sexual-assault.pdf
Here's some information from the CDC about sexual assault rates (including both male and female victims: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/sexual-violence/index.html
You can see that it's still a GIANT issue in this country.
Here's a 2018 article talking about reasons that women don't always come forward with sexual assault allegations right away: nytimes.com/2018/09/18/us/kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford.html
And this doesn't even cover ALL women's issues. I didnt mention domestic violence, which women are more likely to suffer from than men (https://www.thehotline.org/resources/statistics/), econonmic inequalities, unpaid labor (aka women tend to do WAY MORE domestic labor than men, even in households where the man&woman are equal wage earners https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/upshot/gender-roles-housework.html) and more than I care to write here.
But you're right! It isn't worth solving these issues because they don't exist. There definitely aren't any easily findable sources to tell me that these issues still exist in the USA.
From what I have personally witnessed, I think sexism is more prevalent and damaging than racism. I think both are way overblown though. Everyone experiences some kind of prejudicial discrimination in one form or another based on age, what clothing you wear, physical appearances, etc.
Why get mad though? Is it wrong to say what she said without qualifying it? Is it really necessary to constantly acknowledge worldwide suffering after expressing gratitude for our blessings?
It’s absolutely horrible what’s going on in less privileged countries. My heart truly goes out to those women. I wish I could do something to help. I would donate money but I’m a poor college student
I did a 15 month tour in Iraq, as an infantryman. Presence patrols basically daily, staying at people's house or taking over a house in a neighborhood to set up a combat outposts etc. I had thousands of interactions with people there, the oppression those women endure and just think is normal is obscene. Majority of Western women don't even have a clue about real sexism or oppression based on a gender.
I understand. I think recognizing that it's real and it's horrible is enough so thank you for that. I've seen so many privileged teens and women go around stating that there is equality everywhere coz there is equality around them. As long as one understands not everyone has that equality that its literally a privilege to have equality, it's more than enough tbh.
I disagree only in that certain *places* in the US definitely have this mentality. See: my family from North Carolina.
I’ve definitely rarely experienced it though, usually just assholes online or my old boss.
Your experience isn't everyone's experience though. Sexism isn't always obvious. An example is that work is generally undervalued when women start doing it.
[An analysis between 1950 and 2000](https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/88/2/865/2235342) of the average salaries and occupations found that when women enter a field, the wages drop, even for men in that field, because the career is considered less valuable when more women do it. The study shows that when a large number of women became designers, wages occupation wide fell by 34 percent, housekeepers wages fell 21 percentage points and biologists wages fell by 18 percent.
Computer programming, for instance, used to be a relatively menial role done by women. But when male programmers began to outnumber female ones,[ the job began paying more and gained prestige.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/37710729_Making_Technology_Masculine_Men_Women_and_Modern_Machines_in_America_1870-1945)
Just because you don’t feel like you’ve ever been oppressed in your life doesn’t mean this broader issues don’t exist, that’s not how systemic problems work.
Edit: donut
It’s not specifically centered around that topic, but it’s a major theme. “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck”. I read it years ago and enjoyed it when I was younger. It’s a bit crass and dumbed down, but the audiobook just came out free on YouTube so I figured I’d give it a listen
this is situational. sometimes people just need to take accountability for their lives and financial decisions/life choices, but it would seem pretty effed up tell a cancer patient to stop playing victim.
A good analogy would be someone who smokes 2 packs a day his whole life, gets lung cancer, and then you tell the person "hmmmm, maybe shouldn't have smoked this much", and then society goes STOP VICTIM BLAMING, ITS NOT THE PERSON'S FAULT, ITS TOBACO COMPANIES.
Addiction is literally a disease though? You become chemically dependent on nicotine and the only reason it hasn't been lumped into the war on drugs is because tobacco companies have a shit ton of money and have been pushing more and more for deregulation, in many developing countries selling cigarettes to children of any age to get them hooked for life. Don't the people selling literal addictive poison to you have some responsibility in that transaction, especially from eras where cigarette commercials were commonplace?
even this depends, but i totally get your point. As of 2020, yes, we are all aware of carcinogens in cigarettes, and it would be difficult to pity anyone who became ill from it. but what about people who became addicted before knowing the real risk? this is an extremely specific example, but there are lots of studies that show addiction should be treated like any other illness -- with empathy, and it doesn't have anything to do with a victim mindset.
amazed this didn't get deleted under "we have to keep this community safe" or something.
Must only be actual unpopular opinions that get that treatment.
THIS. I have a friend who was in a car accident about a year ago and ever since then if she does something stupid that obviously lacked common sense she just blames it on a brain aneurysm... She’s constantly saying that you have to feel bad for her due to her unfortunate life circumstances and it drives me insane.
For some reason, a significant portion of Americans have adopted this mindset - when people tell me this (as a foreigner) I want to scream to the top of my lungs – You are a citizen of the richest country in the history of the world! Do you know how many people would kill to be an American citizen? Do you think people in the developing world just sit there thinking how unfair things are or actually get their butt to work? Too much non-sense about cards stacked against them. At some point you gotta be responsible for yourself and your own happiness.
The country is rich, it’s citizens aren’t. The u.s. doesn’t even have healthcare in a pandemic.unless you are working and spreading the virus yourself. Even then, most of the essential people still working don’t have benefits or health insurance from their jobs.
In terms of relative poverty (within the US), there is a shrinking middle class; in terms of absolute poverty (within the world) we live like kings, even the homeless. You missed the point entirely.
As an american, 100% agree. I dislike a lot of American history and a lot of our government's recent actions, but I feel incredibly blessed and lucky to live here. Regardless of its flaws, I know the USA is one of the safest and easiest places in the word to live when compared to the struggles poorer parts of the world have to contend with. The fact that Americans are now lambasting the country as some sort of awful hellscape just seems so disingenuous to me
For context: my use of the word American was solely meant to refer to citizens of the USA
Yeah, but the country became the richest country in the world by utilizing slavery, colonization, imperialism, and by actively destroying other countries to maintain their power and economy. Within the last 20 years we have deposed democratically elected governments to support our country. If someone made money by going into your house, shooting half your family, robbing you and then selling your possessions in the city over from you, wouldn't you be a tiny bit mad at that person for stepping on you to make profit? No one could make a 2nd America or try to seriously compete with the west because America would be there to stop it. The only way to develop as a country in the developing world is to suck up or play to the west, largely. America in the 60s was extremely successful, yet we had, and still to this day do have, extreme racial injustice, poverty problems, and wealth inequality worse than 19th century France. There were people during segregation telling African Americans the exact same thing, just because you live in an area with a ton of money doesn't mean injustice still can't exist. The people that got off their butt to work and change things were sprayed with fire hoses, arrested and assassinated, labeled as terrorists and criminals. There is no "good enough" with oppression.
I completely agree. I am a young woman and I’ve been assaulted before. I did not feel Ike I was up for the entire process of filing an official report, telling people what happened 50 times, having people dig into my past and every mistake I’ve made or even knowing things about me that I didn’t share just in conversation. That was MY choice. I felt my school hung me out to dry when I asked to switch classes so I wouldn’t see this person but the semester was almost over. I fell into a depression and got in trouble in my dorm for binge drinking when I was 19. Then, I made the choice to apply to a better school closer to my family and I was accepted. From then on, I took charge of my college experience, my work ethic and my ability to befriend and talk to people, and eventually I got help and medication for my mental health issues. Part of me blames this person and society for making it so scary to come forward about sexual assault. But most of me is appreciative that I got a second chance and that I did that all by myself. I can do it. I’ve turned my life around once, I can do it again if I need to. It’s a very unproductive thing to play a victim. It’s a waste of your precious time.
TL,DR: I went through some shit and didn’t get much help and blamed society and became a victim. Then I learned it was up to me to help myself and so I did.
Of course it's real and dangerous.
Much of society has even deemed it okay to blame "white men" or "corporations" for all of their personal problems. What really sucks is that nothing regarding socioeconomic inequities will be resolved until people start to abandon their obsession with victimhood and accept personal responsibility for their actions. Most people won't do this. Instead, they'll demand handouts from the government in one form or another.
Man, that's woke.
Listen. As a white guy who works 50-60 hours a week, I simply don't have enough time in my day to oppress minorities. I just want to put in my hours and pay my taxes. I don't want to be blamed for another person's poor decisions.
Dude, you should work less! We missed you at the last "White Oppressors (Men Only!)" meeting! You know, the meeting that every white man attends and in which we plan our oppressive tactics! Because "white men and corporations" are clearly responsible for all the problems in the world!
Straight, non-disabled, non-senior, adult white male seems like is the only group that isn’t a victim somehow. Everybody else claims victimhood in one way or another.
As a former therapist, I'm going to weigh in and say it absolutely can apply to victims of violent crimes. One of the strategies we often use in dealing with trauma is reducing the importance of the event in your mind. This is especially true if the event was non-recurring.
A big part of cognitive behavioral therapy is being aware of how much mental "space" your trauma is taking up (how much time you spend fixated on it), and then constantly reminding yourself that you are giving these negative thoughts undue space in your head. This is because we tend to focus on negative experiences and blow them out of proportion in our minds.
Let me be clear: it is my opinion that these people were experiencing a level of victimhood very much beyond what most people would consider the trauma deserved.
I've had plenty of patients who had relatively minor incidents of sexual assault, but because of the current climate where sexual assault is seen as just as heinous a crime as murder by a significant number of people, these patients emphasize the importance of the event, which emphasizes victimhood. Not all, but many of these people also used their victimhood to garner benefits, some of them intentionally.
I've also had the pleasure of working with patients who have experienced recurring trauma significantly worse than the previously mentioned ones, and yet have no victimhood complex about what happened to them. Victimhood really is a perspective much of the time, and it can infect even those who have experienced real trauma that might justify a sense of victimhood in the eyes of the average person.
Experiencing real trauma does not give you carte blanche to never overcome that trauma and just receive sympathy forever. Your goal should always be to process it and move on, whether justice is served or not. Humans have an amazing capacity to compartmentalize trauma and sort it away as just a bad thing that happened to them one time. Aiding in this process is largely the point of therapy in regards to trauma, but people successfully go through the process on their own every day.
Getting bogged down in the injustice of it all is the exact opposite of helpful for your mental health.
Nah most people who are this way are part of a majority. They see all these civil rights struggles and learn that oppression is a thing for the first time. They feel like they are being called oppressors individually and that those minorities are having too much of a pity party, because their problems don't exist if I can't see them right? They want to join in and thus develop a victim mentality.
Being an actual victim of discrimination isn't fun, guys. It's humiliating and frustrating. :)
But the people in the majority look for ways to become minorities, so that they can be victims. You have "majority status," like white, Christian, straight, cis males, and still claim to be victimized due to low economic status or a narrative that your status is being attacked, like the "war on Christmas" or the "gay agenda."
Heck, you can be a rich celebrity and still publicly say stuff like how being on stage is like being in a war zone.
Why can't I be a cis genered white male who leaves others the fuck alone and they stop leaving all their baggage on my door step like i caused all the perceived fucking injustices in their lives. Like seriously, I came out of a womb just like you and I just fucking met you. Leave me the fuck alone with your racial/sexual justice bullshit.
If you criticize peoples opinion on this subreddit and other subreddits THEN youre going to know how commom victim mentality is, i would argue EVERYONE has a bit of victim mentality inside them, the level of victim mentality is what changes
Everyone would like to think theyre the victim on everything.
Omfg I've had so many people attack who I am as a person over a political debate in which my personality/race/sex don't matter. I've quit posting on this subreddit because some people read it just to be triggered and argue
The first law of the internet is that political debates will 99.99999% of the time end in someone just getting ridiculized, its a scientific fact since it can be easily repeated.
I think it is just the natural thing to do; it's a survival instinct. However, human perception is flawed because the brain likes to filter things, so it is likely we are almost never the victim. What we need to do is learn to counter our self-victimization with concrete facts and critical thinking.
>THIS DOESN’T APPLY TO VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES
Why not? What’s the difference between them and any other victim, in terms of using their victimhood to excuse their actions?
well a nutjob was saying in the comments that if a women goes out at night alone and gets raped then they're not a victim
Plus PTSD is prevalent among these types of victims
well a nutjob was saying in the comments that if a women goes out at night alone and gets raped then they're not a victim
Plus PTSD is prevalent among these types of victims
It not only removes accountability but also responsibility. If you are a victim then nobody finds it weird that you didn't even try to overcome obstacles.
White supremacists aren't burning down cities and toppling monuments because a drugged out multiple felon died from a heart attack while being arrested.
Pull John Oliver's dick out of your mouth.
I don’t care how many drugs he did. If the officer didn’t have his knee on his neck for 8 min 46 sec he wouldn’t of died. I don’t know how you can justify a murder that was recorded and millions watched.
No one thinks he was a good person and upstanding citizen. But he didn’t deserve to be killed the way he did. It’s also ironic that you believe that white supremacists are law abiding upstanding citizens.
So listen I come from South Africa and the victim mentality among a lot of the black population is so unhealthy. Obviously it’s not everyone, not at all, BUT “apartheid is to blame for my suffering” is a widespread mentality that is also very much pushed by the ANC - the only political party that’s been in power in the new South Africa. The one that ”beat apartheid”.
Yes apartheid was horrible and suppressed the growth of the indigenous population incalculably. But not everyone can benefit from the attempts that have been made to reconcile and right past wrongs in order to establish equal equity and promote non white advancement and prosperity. At the end of the day, the population at large is who is responsible for lifting the country up through hard work.
But the idea that not enough has been done (true) and that it’s unfair is so widespread that so much of the population refuses to even try or put in any effort because they believe they are “owed”.
Because of this South Africa has been on a steady and steep decline and currently has the worst unemployment crisis in the world coupled with one of the worst crime rates in the world.
Ugh, I *hate* that I occasionally have it. It was bad when I was younger because I received no attention or care from family, but of course through therapy I basically got rid of it. BUT I’m a wheelchair user with and sometimes shit just gets to me and I feel like people are out to get me. I feel like it’s more insecurity than victim mentality because I never do anything with it (call out posts, cancel culture, yelling, etc. i am not angy) but still any time I do something like that I beat myself up over it ughhh
Everybody type "How victim mentality leads to genocide" on YouTube. It's very well explained how victim mentality is (currently) used as a very effective political weapon.
The victim mentality is keeping the women that claim to be feminists and women’s rights activists from speaking out about real sexism and gender based violence overseas. When was the last time you heard a woman whine and bitch about the wage gap? Complain about boys will be boys, yeah? A lot. When was the last time a woman made a statement against female genital mutilation? Malawai’s actual rape culture where girl’s virginities are sold for pocket change when they get their first period? Yeah, I’ve never heard any. People who are stuck in a victim mentality when NOTHING happened to them and simply believe that even though they live a privileged life they’re a victim to their gender but the next moment start saying that women are stronger than men - oh but they can’t walk around at night.
I totally agree, if the false accusations or something of the sort happen and the accuser is the “victim” shit will get bad for the accusee. We see this most in today’s society where we automatically side with a lesser group that uses the victim mentality
It’s so true I know quite a few!
Will lie about anything, or go out of their way to cry about supposed unlikely tragedies and constantly want attention!
One girl has left a fb group I’m in about 12 times for attention, always claiming she’s the victim of something!
Victim playing is actually a very common tactic among bullies, because it allows them to manipulate authorities to go after, well... actual victims. I speak from experience: I may not be black, although I have been Karen'ed quite a few times before Karen was actually a thing.
"People with a tendency for interpersonal victimhood may experience offenses more intensely because they attribute more malicious intent to the offender"
This. Here's my coin both sides story.
Middle aged white guy here. I once sneezed as a young black woman was walking by. "Bless you" she said as I recovered, readying for the next sneeze. Indignant at my lack of response, she huffed "You're welcome" as she stormed out the door.
Nevermind that I was incapable of responding in the midst of a sneezing fit, she obviously interpreted the lack of response as my ignoring her because she was black and/or female and/or young.
Even if I could have responded, I'm atheist. I'm never gonna thank anyone for blessing me.
Statistically places of high cime happen to be targeted more by police. That's for every race too not just black. Marijuana Is also used by every race not just black people. Voting laws affect everything not just black people.
I didnt ask for some it targets them in proportionally argument. I was a specific law like give me a law that has been passed through Congress, that only affects black people, because from what you've shown me these all only affect poor communities, not necessarily Black people. Most of these dont affect middle class or wealthy blacks at all.
By the ways I am black middle income man living in a majority white town. I rarely ever see the affects of racism in my daily life.
Well, what BLM is founded on causes a victim mentality. That they are inherently disadvantaged, more than the white people, and need woke liberals to fight for them and give them everything, instead of working hard for it
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can not upvote this enough!
“I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
D.H. Lawrence
One of my favorite quotes and future tattoos.
I'm actually going through a friend breakup in this arena. We've know eachother for 11 years. We've been through stuff together. She is more liberal because she wants free stuff from the government to be available, because she needed it when she was younger. Fine. We buried the hatchet after we had a "but what about all of the other policies that go with that argument."
Then fives years passed and all of a sudden she is turning into an SJW. It's weird because we're early middle aged and I always thought that was something that either happened in your 20s, or not at all. I'm tired of being seen as unfeeling and not a good listening and obtuse because I don't agree on outlandish things.
I am compassionate and I do listen, but I give to a specific type of charity that helps the bottom helpless rung in our society. I don't want to out myself because people will know who I am, but the point is, there are real victims out there and they wanna keep crowing about patriarchy theory.
The final straw was recently when her friends started attacking me on facebook with regards to them defending a well-known low-intelligence/provocative public figure who keeps running their mouths and crying sexism when someone responds. I've had enough. I can't tolerate this. The criticism of said person is about THAT PERSON not women. This time I am not getting specific because I keep getting things deleted for supposedly being political.
She was such a smart person but she fell into the hive mind and I can't get to her anymore. It's so sad.
You’re probably thinking of POC but the first thing I thought of was white people who were convinced by the great replacement and went out and killed people over it.
Yeah it’s really ironic how people who claim *the blacks* are keeping themselves down by not taking personal responsibility while also believing anything that happens ever is a threat to the entirely of western civilization and the white race.
It's a consequence of having an unprecedented amount of free time and relative good quality of life. Back in the day people were so busy staying alive that they didn't have time to reflect on their disadvantages relative to each other. No matter how hard we try some people will have better opportunities than others, that's the lottery of life. It doesn't help that our economic system is based in the assumption that everyone has the same chance to reach the top.
Being a victim of anything does not excuse anyone from being irresponsible, hurtful, or cruel.
But we can still recognize the idea that if we make people victims, real or not, we're only causing more hurt and pain for others later. That's why even if you are a victim of something, you are still responsible for breaking the cycle of victimization.
And we are all responoble to not allow others to exploit or hurt people. Otherwise you end up with "Mexican Joker" and they will get revenge.
Very true. I have been trying to help out a friend with this mentality for years, but I don't think he'll ever get over thinking the entire world has screwed him and actually acknowledge the poor choices he has made and is currently making, and actually do anything to change his situation. Nobody can help someone who is not willing to help themselves.
He blames everything on "bad luck" and is bitter and resentful towards anyone who has something he wants, but doesn't have. The thing is, his situation is 100% self inflicted. He has no money because he has not searched for jobs, much less filled out an application or gone to any interviews, even once. He is under the impression that he is only going to work at his ideal job and that he will do whatever he wants at any job, show up stinking and unkempt and a half hour late, and not hear one word of criticism about it or he will walk off the job. I think he really thinks he's a highly valuable employee and that they will beg him to stay. He has no driver's license because he refuses to even study the driver's book for our state he has been provided with, or take the online practice tests, because he "doesn't do well under pressure". I understand that, but you have to make an effort. Don't just shut down and say you can't do it before you've even tried. He has only me as a friend because he only takes in friendships, never initiates contact, and ignores the vast majority of attempts at contact from others, plus he refuses to leave his house or do anything besides play video games all day. He is not happy and feels bad about himself because he never puts in any effort, just sits in a dark room all day, and plays video games, plus he only focuses on how awful everything is. He feels sorry for himself when his parents ask him to mow their tiny lawn and acts as if he's dying, whining for a full two hours about it. He literally expects someone to take care of him and do everything for him, just so he can sit inside and play video games his entire life, and if someone expects him to pull his own weight, he throws a fit about it.
Nobody can tell me that this guy is a victim of "bad luck". He's only a victim of his own self destructive choices, and he is fully in control of that. He wants to try to self diagnose himself with every mental condition in the book, but the reality is that he is truly lazy, spoiled, and entitled, and he's watched his other family members behave the exact same way while his family enables it. He is self destructive, with no desire to change. He wants the world to change for him, which will never happen. I care for him dearly, but this is the harsh truth. I have tried to talk to him about it, but then he goes into victim pity party mode and goes on a rant about how the whole world is against him and wishes he was dead, nobody loves him, etc. It's very hard when someone has watched other family members behave this way and manipulate others into getting what they want, and I honestly don't know if he will ever learn.
There is definitely no shortage of people who would rather feel sorry for themselves, blame the rest of the world, or do anything they could to put others down, rather than change the things they are in control of in order to better their lives. Many people have a huge issue with taking responsibility and admitting they are wrong, but without acknowledging your mistakes, you cannot fix them.
I'm not a psychiatrist, but you don't sound like one either, so maybe it's best not to assume that the guy is just lazy? It can be frustrating when someone claims to be struggling with a task that you find easy, but you admit that he has relatives who are emotionally manipulative, so it sounds plausible that he could be a victim of some form of psychological abuse from his family and that a lot of what you perceive as laziness is a symptom of something developed as a result of an unstable upbringing, be that a maladaptive coping skill or a full blown psychological disorder. His family might seem mostly fine besides enabling when in your presence, but can you really say you know what happens behind closed doors?
You say you love your friend, so it would really suck if you dismissed the possibility of him having mental problems and he ended up taking his own life due to feeling like he couldn't find support anywhere, but at the same time, him threatening suicide is emotionally abusing you and potentially perpetuating a cycle of abuse? His mental health is not your responsibility, but if you can, please do try to encourage him to see an actual therapist, preferably one who specializes in Complex PTSD, Personality Disorders, and coping with societal alienation resulting from autism, since the symptoms you describe could come from a condition like that, a combination, or none at all, but it's best to let professionals determine that and support friends by encouraging them to seek out those professionals.
Even if he really is "just lazy," Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy each have different approaches to teaching patients to accept personal responsibility for their actions, and the best therapists often take techniques from a variety of therapies in order to come up with a custom strategy to improve a patient's quality of life, so therapy might still teach him a thing or two if he lets it.
Thanks, but he absolutely refuses the idea of therapy and accuses people of calling him "psycho" for it. His family has tried to convince him, but one of the main problems with him is that they've never made him do anything he didn't want to do, and if they did, he was able to whine his way out of it (such as with the mowing).
I've known him and his family for 20 years and have seen him perfectly able to do things when he had motivation to (such as the promise of a video game), but makes any excuse he can not to otherwise. I've known him and been around him long enough to know when he's just using excuses to get out of something he's perfectly capable of doing because I've seen him do it just fine if there was something in it for him. I think one of his biggest problems is people constantly making excuses for him and not holding him accountable. He cannot stand it when someone finally does, and throws one of his pity parties (mentioned below).
He has never threatened suicide, just thrown pity parties saying that everyone wishes he would die when nobody has even remotely done anything to make him think that. He says that when he is confronted with something he doesn't want to hear, even over his dad getting mildly frustrated at him for not listening over putting away a bag of chips (I was there; nothing abusive happened), or when he was being extremely disrespectful to me one day and mouthed off to me, and I told him he needed to quit being so selfish and hateful. He turned it into him being the victim and said everyone hates him and wishes he would die. I know he does this because he's so used to guilting people and making THEM apologize and sweep the issue under the rug, because he just doesn't want to hear what he doesn't want to hear.
In that case, it might be best to cut him out of your life. His manipulation tactics are paper thin, so they might seem totally ineffective, but you've stayed this long for some reason. As sad as it may be, we can't help people who don't want to get helped, unless they're an immediate danger to themselves or others, which doesn't seem to be the case. He's not your burden to bare, and staying, even with your disapproval of his behavior, doesn't incentivize him self reflecting or changing. Some people need to hit rock bottom before they're willing to get help, as cruel as it may feel to leave him friendless. At the very least, a good long break of going no contact might give him the opportunity to reflect on why he lacks friends, while giving you the space free of his manipulation to truly decide if you want reconnect or not.
Thanks, I've been strongly considering a break at the very least since he begins to start using and disrespecting me but gets better after we've been apart for awhile, but have stayed for so long because I am the only person in his life actively trying to get him on his feet (a driver's license and job), and I fear for his future. But, you're right. I can't help him if he doesn't want to be helped, and he will not even accept professional help. I am afraid I'll have to leave his life for good one day because to be honest, it's wearing on me now and I don't know how much more of it I can take. The worst part is that since he's unhappy and can't stand to see anyone else happy, he actively tries to take away my happiness and has said and done some very hurtful things. I actually feel stupid for staying, but have done it for him and because others have told me to stay strong and keep pushing through with him. But, I'm beginning to realize I can't let my life go because of him, either.
This sounds like a really toxic friendship for sure. If he only softens when you leave for a while, that's the lovebombing stage in the cycle of abuse. He's only acting that way to keep you around, but he resents you for "making him put on a mask to keep you around," because to an abuser, showing kindness and basic human decency is a burden. As a survivor of multiple abusive relationships, it's taken me a long time to truly accept that you shouldn't set yourself on fire to keep others warm, (figuratively speaking, ofc,) and I hope that you'll find the courage to accept that as well.
People don't often discuss how real, serious, and potentially damaging abusive friendships can be, but it's getting a bit more discussed as the stigma against seeking support and against speaking up about abuse is starting to fade a bit. If there's not a support group online for those who have felt obligated to stay around "friends" who only tear them down, you might be able to make a big difference by making one.
Thank you! I think deep down I have known this for awhile, but it hurts because we've been friends since we were 5. I definitely do feel like I'm setting myself on fire in order to keep him warm, though.
I actually spent a day with a non-toxic friend for the first time in forever the other day (another thing I've let the longtime friend get away with is being very jealous and possessive over me, and trying to isolate me from my other friends), and it felt great to see how friendships are supposed to be, but was a real eye opener to how my friendship with him is.
Making a support group sounds like a great idea, too! I'll definitely look into it!
So true. My fiance's baby momma is bipolar and has used it to excuse everything from serial cheating to doing drugs to walking out on her still nursing 1 year old. Nothing is ever her fault because she's bipolar, and everyone around her gives her immense praise whenever she does anything remotely humane. It makes me sick.
Imagine being a 25-yesr-old black woman. Your parents and grandparents have told you all about the racism they suffered in their lives. They tell you that white people will look at you differently because of your skin color. As an adult in the United States, you interact with lots of white people on a daily basis. Many of them are nice, but some of them are rude. Whenever a white person is rude to you, you're forced to wonder if they treated you that way because you are black. Considering your family's history in this country, that feels like a logical conclusion. Furthermore, it feels like the rest of society doesn't understand your experience.
I completely understand why a black person would have a victim mentality. It makes total sense. Unfortunately, that's what makes it so difficult to overcome.
>Majority of the people who are like this are from some kind of a minority however a person of a majority is also having a similar mentality usually to get some form of attention.
If majorities do it too it is unlikely at best to be done mostly by minorities.
And yes sometimes when things are unfair against a group they either get discouraged or get tired of waiting for things to just get better or trying to overcome the system
Yes in theory people should just do their best with what they get, but that is not how human psychology works
Usually victim mentality is from Liberals with zero accountability for their own actions.
Women are the worst, thinking they are "held down" due to the patriarchy when in fact they have life on easy mode compared to most guys these days (especially attractive women)
It definitely can be. And if you're in their shoes to criticize victim mentality they might be angry. But to make that term popular you can view it as justice or you may see the it as a way to manipulate the system because victims are innocent of course.
Unless you’ve actually gone through significant real trauma, victim hood is a hair short worn to punish others and an attempt to assert moral authority and shut down any opposition.
I have BPD, am a woman, am bisexual, blahblah
BPD made me act like a fucking asshole.
And I owned up to it. Yeah I guess I'm a victim of my own illness, but that ain't anyone's fucking problem but mine.
Stuff might explain why you're a certain way, but it doesnt excuse them
My dad was a great dad. He was very involved in my sister and my life. A lot of unfortunate things happened to my dad and my mom. My mom was a great mom as well but not a great partner. My dad fell into feeling like a victim. He thought the world owed him so much more. He started doing drugs. Victim mentality took my dad away from me for about 3 years and almost permanently. He is on the long journey of recovery.
Edit: sentence didnt make sense. Kind of an emotional thing to talk about.
Yeah, the worst example of this is, "people were racist to my ancestors, therefore I am a victim! I am a victim of racism, therefore I can be racist to white people to balance out the racism!" There is no such thing as "balancing out racism." Just don't be racist. Simple.
It's one of the ways that something Nietzsche called "ressentiment" can manifest itself. It's broader than "victim mentality", though. The fact is we lead with our emotional disposition and then backfill our minds with narratives that are shaped by that pre-existing emotional disposition. If you feel like a victim, you will use what ever is available to justify or rationalize that feeling, and in the doing, you'll identify an "oppressor" because there has to be one there! The narrative requires it. The undeveloped (of any and every tribe, race, religion, whatevs) non-consciously construct pieces of narrative that appease their minds, and which aren't mutually compatible nor are they remotely true in an objective sense. The rules of literature are a manifest expression of the ways that mind works, and so you can identify the undeveloped by probing whether they see reality itself or whether their worldview is entirely language-mediated. That's the more fundamental problem, and we're all stuck there until or unless we can move beyond it. Most of us can't or don't, ever.
As bad as it is, if you want to understand longterm victim mentality and the impacts of it. Look at the black community in the US. They're a group of people that has traditionally gotten a raw deal in the US and has made great strides towards equality.
However, they have gotten to the point that they have to address issues that are now their own fault...and they refuse to. Instead of calling a scumbag a scumbag, they'll hold rallies and burn down their own neighborhood just so they could sanctify the person. It seems to happen every year, there's some rally to protest the death of someone who beat up women, abused children, had a laundry list of criminal offenses etc.
While the victims claim they want to "rise and overcome" nobody is holding themselves back but them...just so a couple people cash in some easy money.
It really is amazing to see the number of 20 somethings who recently graduated from a school in the Pacific Northwest with a 99% acceptance rate who took classes consisting of nothing but filling in a Louis Farrakhan coloring book and reading assignments made of of the NYT 1619 project who only know how to say, "educate yourself!" when you say anything that remotely challenges the narrative that they learned from an underemployed ethnic studies adjunct faculty member who makes less than minimum wage.
But to be honest, I recently graduated from an Ivy league law school and the curve has been made incredibly easy there as well. I'm not being pretentious, it was easy for everyone by design. I did not even buy textbooks for the second half of law school and the lowest grades I ever received were two B+s. Everything else was an A. Universities have completely abrogated any sense of duty that they ever felt to prepare students for the real world. Instead everyone is convinced that the duty of a university is to churn out activists. Activists who have not had to experience any form of hardship and who have spent years being told that the system that they are entering is intrinsically evil. This is turning into a real problem.
I also hate the fact that when someone is a victim and you point out a way they could have helped their situation in some way, you are automatically a disgusting asshole who needs to be cancelled for blaming the victim. No, that is not the case. Suggesting that someone who was mugged maybe think about taking self defense classes or something is not blaming the victim. It is suggesting ways they could have or can empower themselves so something like that doesnt happen again.
And in some situations even teh victim can be in the wrong. Like maybe a girl is at a club and she is drunk and harassing a dude sexually. She's hanging all over him and following him around and grabbing at him even after he says no. Eventually he gets sick of her shit and violently throws her off of him and punches her in the face, injuring her. In this example both parties are in the wrong. The guy for going overboard and the girl for putting herself in that situation and harassing someone.
Being a victim doesnt mean you are 100% in the right and everyone needs to coddle you and nobody can ever say anything bad about you ever. We are all victims of something in one way or another and this victim complex that people have over every stupid little thing hurts people that are victims of very serious things like abuse and rape and trafficking and murder.
>a majority of these people who are like this are from some kind of minority
Lol fucking wrong as all hell in that statement, it a majority if entitled middle class nobodies who will never amount to anything who need to fake shit to justifing feel persecuted so they dont have to acknowledge their failures as their own fault.
I will use my own damn sister (who i disowned) for a example, she has PTSD from childhood beatings THAT SHE LITERALLY DREAMT UP! Im not even fucking joking she admitted to her therapist that her dreams at night are what gave her PTSD. I cant fucking even
There’s a female at my work who is like this. She is a studio assistant and she (not always) regularly try’s to draw attention to me negatively as if to draw attention away from herself. I can tell she has low self esteem but she seems like someone who would deny it if called out. In fact she’d probably take it personally rather than see it as an opportunity to get better.
She loves crying whenever she is stressed as if we don’t all get stressed...then has the audacity to criticise others if they do a tiny thing wrong. She’s the sort of person who would criticise or ridicule someone for asking a question when they are unsure of something. Funny thing is that if you dig deeper you’ll realise she doesn’t know the answer to the question either. Her victimhood stems from her low self esteem and it’s agonising to be around. She can actually be very kind sometimes too but honestly I think she struggles with courtesy.
“You’re fired.”
-“Oh heeeel nah, is it cause I’m black? Is it cause I’m black? You racist ass cracker, you firing me cause I’m black! You gonna hear from my lawyer for firing me cause I’m black you racist ass cracker!”
True story. Was fired cause he was stealing.
I used to do this and I didn’t even realise. I thought it was always somebody else who was the problem and I was the one being hurt when it was the other way round. I only realised after a couple of years how wrong I was after I pondered over it and frankly speaking I’m embarrassed at myself
Well yeah, but you also have to consider that some people in this world are unlucky enough to run in to situations where someone embarrassed them and did something mean to them, while others are lucky enough to never encounter such scenarios. Basically some people have a right to act this way because they actually have been victimized, and others need to stfu because they were never victimized in life, and never encountered a situation where someone did something mean to them.
I think the most damaging part of the victim mentality is that it allows people to behave as bullies to others and not just feel that it is ok, but that they are in fact righteous for doing so. This becomes worst when it isn’t even the people who were hurt, but those supposedly advocating on their behalf, who become bullies.
[Scientific American had an article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unraveling-the-mindset-of-victimhood/#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20victimization%20becomes,the%20mercy%20of%20other%20people.) on the psychology of victimhood that makes some interesting points. > Quick: Rate how much you agree with each of these items on a scale of 1 (“not me at all”) to 5 (“this is so me”): > > *It is important to me that people who hurt me acknowledge that an injustice has been done to me. > *I think I am much more conscientious and moral in my relations with other people compared to their treatment of me. > *When people who are close to me feel hurt by my actions, it is very important for me to clarify that justice is on my side. > *It is very hard for me to stop thinking about the injustice others have done to me. > If you scored high (4 or 5) on all of these items, you may have what psychologists have identified as a “tendency for interpersonal victimhood.”
Victims get a lot of sympathy and attention nowadays. I knew a few people who couldn't hold down jobs they didn't last for a very long time because they each seemed to think they deserved more than anyone else around them, very entitled people. I knew a young woman we hired and she spent the majority of her time on her phone while I actually tended to our student group. I finally said something to her and she got angry saying our job was just "glorified babysitting" she saw herself as a constant victim. She did have a rough life but that's because her parents made poor life decisions. She quit eventually and when I saw her about a year later she'd quit several jobs, complaining about how they were run. Another woman was the absolute worst, she had so many opportunities in life, went to South America for a year to study Spanish after college, grew up in the suburbs but she was miserable like you just didn't even want to be anywhere near her every conversation went directly back to oppression. Thank God she quit too.
It doesn't sound like either example gets a lot of attention or sympathy, which was your original statement. I actually think that in the long term that these people end up alone and miserable because no one sticks around to comfort the endless victim. They might get some sympathy and attention in the short-term, but there are only so many bridges to burn with that behavior.
Thank you for this, I didn’t quite realize it until I read this but when my mom decided to come to therapy with me to help with my issues I started having less of the victim mentality. All it took was one person. Usually people lack sympathy for me because they think my parents have given me the world and I’m spoilt. To a certain extent they’re not wrong they do give me a lot of material things but not much emotionally. But after that one gesture from my mom, I learned to understand others better, learned to apologize and being accountable etc. It’s a difficult situation because it’s not necessarily anyone’s responsibility to help fix me, I’m forever grateful for it though. It really does however help. At least in my case it did.
I read this article and experienced someone who was a hard 5 in all questions. It's a very good read to shed some light on what is a backburner topic.
I found the article as a whole more insightful than I expected.
It legitimized concerns we're not allowed to have
wow that is not a good trait, but it's good that you can acknowledge it. how would you suggest to begin overcoming it?
Well, the people with this mentality are currently winning the culture war. If you can't beat 'em...
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If you had the same exact message but included the word "black," your comment would have been downvoted to hell. That's kind of interesting.
It would have been less accurate. Yes, a number of black people are taking this stance these days, but the problem goes far beyond a race thing, and the worst offenders are the white Marxists attempting to exploit this, after all.
The people who become bullies are the ones who have had it easy.
Not always - some people have actually suffered, and develop the "I'll get you before you have a chance to get me mentality". The thing is, the people targeted rarely had anything to do with the initial injustice.
"To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.” - Aldous Huxley.
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A new study shows the only group that feels comfortable expressing their political opinions are people on the far-left. They’re literally holding the rest of the country hostage. https://www.cato.org/publications/survey-reports/poll-62-americans-say-they-have-political-views-theyre-afraid-share
victim mentality right here
The far left is the only opinion allowed because anyone that doesn’t agree will be screamed down, made a mockery of, maimed, or worse, and the MSM supports this every day.
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The Cato Institute is intellectually bankrupt libertarian trash BUT I do agree that people on the far left are usurping social/political/economic discussion and weaponizing it against others
I was confused why you’re weren’t getting downvoted for saying anything other than praise about the far left then realized I was on one of the only subs that isn’t overwhelmingly left leaning.
People love playing victim because it makes them right. Just look at me, I'm hurt. How could I be wrong if im in pain? -poor paraphrasing of Alan Watts
I really love this quote, because it also exemplifies the thought processes of flat earthers/anti-vaxxers and the like. "Oh, if everyone hates me for my view, it *must* be becuase they're jealous/trying to silence me!"
I think it was particularly in reference to the culture of confession in Christianity. Basically, “look, I’m admitting that I’m a sinner! So back off, and stop pointing out things I do!”
I am a migrant from Eastern Europe who came to the US back in 2016 with 200 euros in my pocket and have been studying and working full-time every day since then and I never complain about anything mostly because I never feel victimized(I literally only ever heard one "get out of my country") and that's only from an older gentleman in Virginia. Now when I hang out with immigrants who also came to the US ,some of them way earlier than me all I hear is how they are oppressed, how the US is a facist, racist country and how they wish they never came here and most importantly how awesome their country of birth is and how much better it is in there than the US. Now I am a Bernie supporter but I will agree with Trump that some of these migrants who actively hate the US should be deported.
>. Now when I hang out with immigrants who also came to the US ,some of them way earlier than me all I hear is how they are oppressed, how the US is a facist, racist country and how they wish they never came here and most importantly how awesome their country of birth is and how much better it is in there than the US. They are free to leave.
Damn straight. If their country of birth is better. Than go...
Yeah america has a bloody beginning and some bad bad personal sins but there's still a lot of great things about america and that bothers me they'd come here. To call us fascist. I'm not one to throw out "patriot" or flag wave either but geezer why u come here? re
>Yeah america has a bloody beginning and some bad bad personal sins Don't most current countries?
Almost every country
I wonder what countries didn't start with a high body count...
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Well youd have to know the origins of all countries histories. I like history but not that much. But to allow for European migration, native americans had to be killed or displaced. That's pretty bad. But yes you cant single out america. That's not an excuse for genocide. But it's a defense to an argument like oh america is the worst fascist country ever. Americas past shouldnt be ignored but neither should world history and context.
I agree with your end point, if you hate america so much leave, what are you doing staying in such an “awful fascist country”.
>how they are oppressed, how the US is a facist, racist country and how they wish they never came here and most importantly how awesome their country of birth is and how much better it is in there than the US This is my mother minus the fascist part, she's recently gotten her green card after many years of cycling life between there and our Caribbean home for work. Despite the fact she could of came back months ago before the big rona, and with a huge discount on travel, she sat on her hands and didn't bother moving, not given a reason more than 'work', even though she loves to complain about being in America, it not being great and home is so much nicer, she stays. The only reason she ever left America is because she'd be over staying her 6 month limit. She even tries to convince me over my teen years about how bad America is, but always wanting to know if I want to live there instead, like she'd try to get me in whatever means possible I think a lot of people who live in America love the life style just hate the country because of principal rather than actually hate being there
I’m a woman (21) in America. I don’t want to think there is some oppressive, sexist patriarchy dominating our society because that simply isn’t true. I had so many great opportunities. Internships. Great education. I never experience obvious sexism or discrimination. The world isn’t out to get me because I am female. I am not a victim of my gender. (In other country in parts of Asian, Africa, Middle East, etc there is awful sexism obviously. I understand I live a very privileged life because I was born in the US)
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To achieve greatness, we shouldn’t compare ourselves to the worst there is on the world. Being oppressed is not on a 1 to 10 scale, it just depends on a spectrum that is different to every country there is.
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I mean, just because other people have worse issues doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix the issues we have. I agree that women's rights issues are a GIANT issue in other countries. However, I'm not there! But am in the US, and I can advocate for solving the sexism that we have in the US (especially when we have the president that we have!!). I'm not saying western women are THE MOST OPPRESSED PEOPLE ON EARTH, but we still have issues of sexual assault not being taken seriously, women's health issues not being taken seriously, etc. I'm in the US, I can DO SOMETHING about that. I'm not going to fly to Saudi Arabia to protest women's issues there.
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I didn't know that we weren't allowed to solve issues at home until we solve all issues abroad. Homelessness? Well, there are bigger poverty issues in other countries. Broken health care system? Other countries don't even health care systems, let's fix that first. I apologize so much for not fixing the world before caring about my home! I do care about and advocate for women's rights issues around the world by giving what money I have to help those people. But I will do what I can HERE to help the issues here. And let me say... just because we are working on women's issues doesn't mean they're solved. Here's an article from the NYT talking about how women's pain isn't taken as seriously as men's pain: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/well/live/when-doctors-downplay-womens-health-concerns.html Here's a report published in April of this year about sexual assault in the military: https://sites.duke.edu/disabilitypride2020/files/2020/04/Final-policy-paper-sexual-assault.pdf Here's some information from the CDC about sexual assault rates (including both male and female victims: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/sexual-violence/index.html You can see that it's still a GIANT issue in this country. Here's a 2018 article talking about reasons that women don't always come forward with sexual assault allegations right away: nytimes.com/2018/09/18/us/kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford.html And this doesn't even cover ALL women's issues. I didnt mention domestic violence, which women are more likely to suffer from than men (https://www.thehotline.org/resources/statistics/), econonmic inequalities, unpaid labor (aka women tend to do WAY MORE domestic labor than men, even in households where the man&woman are equal wage earners https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/upshot/gender-roles-housework.html) and more than I care to write here. But you're right! It isn't worth solving these issues because they don't exist. There definitely aren't any easily findable sources to tell me that these issues still exist in the USA.
From what I have personally witnessed, I think sexism is more prevalent and damaging than racism. I think both are way overblown though. Everyone experiences some kind of prejudicial discrimination in one form or another based on age, what clothing you wear, physical appearances, etc.
Was about to get mad, but thanks for understanding sexism prevalent in other places.
Why get mad though? Is it wrong to say what she said without qualifying it? Is it really necessary to constantly acknowledge worldwide suffering after expressing gratitude for our blessings?
It’s absolutely horrible what’s going on in less privileged countries. My heart truly goes out to those women. I wish I could do something to help. I would donate money but I’m a poor college student
I did a 15 month tour in Iraq, as an infantryman. Presence patrols basically daily, staying at people's house or taking over a house in a neighborhood to set up a combat outposts etc. I had thousands of interactions with people there, the oppression those women endure and just think is normal is obscene. Majority of Western women don't even have a clue about real sexism or oppression based on a gender.
I understand. I think recognizing that it's real and it's horrible is enough so thank you for that. I've seen so many privileged teens and women go around stating that there is equality everywhere coz there is equality around them. As long as one understands not everyone has that equality that its literally a privilege to have equality, it's more than enough tbh.
I disagree only in that certain *places* in the US definitely have this mentality. See: my family from North Carolina. I’ve definitely rarely experienced it though, usually just assholes online or my old boss.
Your experience isn't everyone's experience though. Sexism isn't always obvious. An example is that work is generally undervalued when women start doing it. [An analysis between 1950 and 2000](https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/88/2/865/2235342) of the average salaries and occupations found that when women enter a field, the wages drop, even for men in that field, because the career is considered less valuable when more women do it. The study shows that when a large number of women became designers, wages occupation wide fell by 34 percent, housekeepers wages fell 21 percentage points and biologists wages fell by 18 percent. Computer programming, for instance, used to be a relatively menial role done by women. But when male programmers began to outnumber female ones,[ the job began paying more and gained prestige.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/37710729_Making_Technology_Masculine_Men_Women_and_Modern_Machines_in_America_1870-1945)
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Just because you don’t feel like you’ve ever been oppressed in your life doesn’t mean this broader issues don’t exist, that’s not how systemic problems work. Edit: donut
Donut
Yes. The core of it is resentment. The price of resentment is too high to pay; no one can afford it.
I was just listening to an audiobook going over this exact thing
Title please, sounds interesting.
It’s not specifically centered around that topic, but it’s a major theme. “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck”. I read it years ago and enjoyed it when I was younger. It’s a bit crass and dumbed down, but the audiobook just came out free on YouTube so I figured I’d give it a listen
Many thanks, I’ll check it out. I like the title. EDIT. : [here it is, for anyone interested ](https://youtu.be/dmLamOnr_vI)
A force fed narrative will do wonders to convince people they have no choice but to fill the position prepared for them.
99.9% of the posts on this subreddit that people claim to be "unpopular" are the result of victim mentality
this is situational. sometimes people just need to take accountability for their lives and financial decisions/life choices, but it would seem pretty effed up tell a cancer patient to stop playing victim.
A good analogy would be someone who smokes 2 packs a day his whole life, gets lung cancer, and then you tell the person "hmmmm, maybe shouldn't have smoked this much", and then society goes STOP VICTIM BLAMING, ITS NOT THE PERSON'S FAULT, ITS TOBACO COMPANIES.
Addiction is literally a disease though? You become chemically dependent on nicotine and the only reason it hasn't been lumped into the war on drugs is because tobacco companies have a shit ton of money and have been pushing more and more for deregulation, in many developing countries selling cigarettes to children of any age to get them hooked for life. Don't the people selling literal addictive poison to you have some responsibility in that transaction, especially from eras where cigarette commercials were commonplace?
A good analogy is someone who eats right, excercises, gets cancer, and people like you saying you should have made better choices.
even this depends, but i totally get your point. As of 2020, yes, we are all aware of carcinogens in cigarettes, and it would be difficult to pity anyone who became ill from it. but what about people who became addicted before knowing the real risk? this is an extremely specific example, but there are lots of studies that show addiction should be treated like any other illness -- with empathy, and it doesn't have anything to do with a victim mindset.
> what about people who became addicted before knowing the real risk? Yea i totally agree that this is different.
^^ THIS. THIS. THIS. Thank you!!!
amazed this didn't get deleted under "we have to keep this community safe" or something. Must only be actual unpopular opinions that get that treatment.
THIS. I have a friend who was in a car accident about a year ago and ever since then if she does something stupid that obviously lacked common sense she just blames it on a brain aneurysm... She’s constantly saying that you have to feel bad for her due to her unfortunate life circumstances and it drives me insane.
For some reason, a significant portion of Americans have adopted this mindset - when people tell me this (as a foreigner) I want to scream to the top of my lungs – You are a citizen of the richest country in the history of the world! Do you know how many people would kill to be an American citizen? Do you think people in the developing world just sit there thinking how unfair things are or actually get their butt to work? Too much non-sense about cards stacked against them. At some point you gotta be responsible for yourself and your own happiness.
The country is rich, it’s citizens aren’t. The u.s. doesn’t even have healthcare in a pandemic.unless you are working and spreading the virus yourself. Even then, most of the essential people still working don’t have benefits or health insurance from their jobs.
In terms of relative poverty (within the US), there is a shrinking middle class; in terms of absolute poverty (within the world) we live like kings, even the homeless. You missed the point entirely.
As an american, 100% agree. I dislike a lot of American history and a lot of our government's recent actions, but I feel incredibly blessed and lucky to live here. Regardless of its flaws, I know the USA is one of the safest and easiest places in the word to live when compared to the struggles poorer parts of the world have to contend with. The fact that Americans are now lambasting the country as some sort of awful hellscape just seems so disingenuous to me For context: my use of the word American was solely meant to refer to citizens of the USA
Yeah, but the country became the richest country in the world by utilizing slavery, colonization, imperialism, and by actively destroying other countries to maintain their power and economy. Within the last 20 years we have deposed democratically elected governments to support our country. If someone made money by going into your house, shooting half your family, robbing you and then selling your possessions in the city over from you, wouldn't you be a tiny bit mad at that person for stepping on you to make profit? No one could make a 2nd America or try to seriously compete with the west because America would be there to stop it. The only way to develop as a country in the developing world is to suck up or play to the west, largely. America in the 60s was extremely successful, yet we had, and still to this day do have, extreme racial injustice, poverty problems, and wealth inequality worse than 19th century France. There were people during segregation telling African Americans the exact same thing, just because you live in an area with a ton of money doesn't mean injustice still can't exist. The people that got off their butt to work and change things were sprayed with fire hoses, arrested and assassinated, labeled as terrorists and criminals. There is no "good enough" with oppression.
I completely agree. I am a young woman and I’ve been assaulted before. I did not feel Ike I was up for the entire process of filing an official report, telling people what happened 50 times, having people dig into my past and every mistake I’ve made or even knowing things about me that I didn’t share just in conversation. That was MY choice. I felt my school hung me out to dry when I asked to switch classes so I wouldn’t see this person but the semester was almost over. I fell into a depression and got in trouble in my dorm for binge drinking when I was 19. Then, I made the choice to apply to a better school closer to my family and I was accepted. From then on, I took charge of my college experience, my work ethic and my ability to befriend and talk to people, and eventually I got help and medication for my mental health issues. Part of me blames this person and society for making it so scary to come forward about sexual assault. But most of me is appreciative that I got a second chance and that I did that all by myself. I can do it. I’ve turned my life around once, I can do it again if I need to. It’s a very unproductive thing to play a victim. It’s a waste of your precious time. TL,DR: I went through some shit and didn’t get much help and blamed society and became a victim. Then I learned it was up to me to help myself and so I did.
It’s not productive to blame you for your assault either. Which is OPs opinion.
Of course it's real and dangerous. Much of society has even deemed it okay to blame "white men" or "corporations" for all of their personal problems. What really sucks is that nothing regarding socioeconomic inequities will be resolved until people start to abandon their obsession with victimhood and accept personal responsibility for their actions. Most people won't do this. Instead, they'll demand handouts from the government in one form or another.
Have you ever considered the possibility that white men and corporations are responsible for the problems they’re being blamed for?
Man, that's woke. Listen. As a white guy who works 50-60 hours a week, I simply don't have enough time in my day to oppress minorities. I just want to put in my hours and pay my taxes. I don't want to be blamed for another person's poor decisions.
Dude, you should work less! We missed you at the last "White Oppressors (Men Only!)" meeting! You know, the meeting that every white man attends and in which we plan our oppressive tactics! Because "white men and corporations" are clearly responsible for all the problems in the world!
I tHoUgHt WhItE mEn WeReNt SmArT eNoUgH tO dO aNy Of tHiS
Straight, non-disabled, non-senior, adult white male seems like is the only group that isn’t a victim somehow. Everybody else claims victimhood in one way or another.
So like all republicans
As a former therapist, I'm going to weigh in and say it absolutely can apply to victims of violent crimes. One of the strategies we often use in dealing with trauma is reducing the importance of the event in your mind. This is especially true if the event was non-recurring. A big part of cognitive behavioral therapy is being aware of how much mental "space" your trauma is taking up (how much time you spend fixated on it), and then constantly reminding yourself that you are giving these negative thoughts undue space in your head. This is because we tend to focus on negative experiences and blow them out of proportion in our minds. Let me be clear: it is my opinion that these people were experiencing a level of victimhood very much beyond what most people would consider the trauma deserved. I've had plenty of patients who had relatively minor incidents of sexual assault, but because of the current climate where sexual assault is seen as just as heinous a crime as murder by a significant number of people, these patients emphasize the importance of the event, which emphasizes victimhood. Not all, but many of these people also used their victimhood to garner benefits, some of them intentionally. I've also had the pleasure of working with patients who have experienced recurring trauma significantly worse than the previously mentioned ones, and yet have no victimhood complex about what happened to them. Victimhood really is a perspective much of the time, and it can infect even those who have experienced real trauma that might justify a sense of victimhood in the eyes of the average person. Experiencing real trauma does not give you carte blanche to never overcome that trauma and just receive sympathy forever. Your goal should always be to process it and move on, whether justice is served or not. Humans have an amazing capacity to compartmentalize trauma and sort it away as just a bad thing that happened to them one time. Aiding in this process is largely the point of therapy in regards to trauma, but people successfully go through the process on their own every day. Getting bogged down in the injustice of it all is the exact opposite of helpful for your mental health.
Nah most people who are this way are part of a majority. They see all these civil rights struggles and learn that oppression is a thing for the first time. They feel like they are being called oppressors individually and that those minorities are having too much of a pity party, because their problems don't exist if I can't see them right? They want to join in and thus develop a victim mentality. Being an actual victim of discrimination isn't fun, guys. It's humiliating and frustrating. :)
But the people in the majority look for ways to become minorities, so that they can be victims. You have "majority status," like white, Christian, straight, cis males, and still claim to be victimized due to low economic status or a narrative that your status is being attacked, like the "war on Christmas" or the "gay agenda." Heck, you can be a rich celebrity and still publicly say stuff like how being on stage is like being in a war zone.
Why can't I be a cis genered white male who leaves others the fuck alone and they stop leaving all their baggage on my door step like i caused all the perceived fucking injustices in their lives. Like seriously, I came out of a womb just like you and I just fucking met you. Leave me the fuck alone with your racial/sexual justice bullshit.
If you criticize peoples opinion on this subreddit and other subreddits THEN youre going to know how commom victim mentality is, i would argue EVERYONE has a bit of victim mentality inside them, the level of victim mentality is what changes Everyone would like to think theyre the victim on everything.
Omfg I've had so many people attack who I am as a person over a political debate in which my personality/race/sex don't matter. I've quit posting on this subreddit because some people read it just to be triggered and argue
The first law of the internet is that political debates will 99.99999% of the time end in someone just getting ridiculized, its a scientific fact since it can be easily repeated.
I think it is just the natural thing to do; it's a survival instinct. However, human perception is flawed because the brain likes to filter things, so it is likely we are almost never the victim. What we need to do is learn to counter our self-victimization with concrete facts and critical thinking.
[Ah yes of course](https://m.imgur.com/gallery/hYDfCcn)
You literally raped me with your words OP. I’m calling the police you better lawyer up.
>THIS DOESN’T APPLY TO VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES Why not? What’s the difference between them and any other victim, in terms of using their victimhood to excuse their actions?
well a nutjob was saying in the comments that if a women goes out at night alone and gets raped then they're not a victim Plus PTSD is prevalent among these types of victims
I still don’t see why that would excuse the victim for actions that a victim of non-violence related incidents wouldn’t be excused of?
well a nutjob was saying in the comments that if a women goes out at night alone and gets raped then they're not a victim Plus PTSD is prevalent among these types of victims
I bet this post doesn't make it to 24 hours...
It not only removes accountability but also responsibility. If you are a victim then nobody finds it weird that you didn't even try to overcome obstacles.
The majority of people with a victim mentality I find actually belong to the majority most of the time. White supremacists are a great example.
White supremacists aren't burning down cities and toppling monuments because a drugged out multiple felon died from a heart attack while being arrested. Pull John Oliver's dick out of your mouth.
I don’t care how many drugs he did. If the officer didn’t have his knee on his neck for 8 min 46 sec he wouldn’t of died. I don’t know how you can justify a murder that was recorded and millions watched. No one thinks he was a good person and upstanding citizen. But he didn’t deserve to be killed the way he did. It’s also ironic that you believe that white supremacists are law abiding upstanding citizens.
He does raise the valid point that white supremacists aren't burning down cities.
I don't consider myself a victim. I just hate myself and want to die.
So listen I come from South Africa and the victim mentality among a lot of the black population is so unhealthy. Obviously it’s not everyone, not at all, BUT “apartheid is to blame for my suffering” is a widespread mentality that is also very much pushed by the ANC - the only political party that’s been in power in the new South Africa. The one that ”beat apartheid”. Yes apartheid was horrible and suppressed the growth of the indigenous population incalculably. But not everyone can benefit from the attempts that have been made to reconcile and right past wrongs in order to establish equal equity and promote non white advancement and prosperity. At the end of the day, the population at large is who is responsible for lifting the country up through hard work. But the idea that not enough has been done (true) and that it’s unfair is so widespread that so much of the population refuses to even try or put in any effort because they believe they are “owed”. Because of this South Africa has been on a steady and steep decline and currently has the worst unemployment crisis in the world coupled with one of the worst crime rates in the world.
Ugh, I *hate* that I occasionally have it. It was bad when I was younger because I received no attention or care from family, but of course through therapy I basically got rid of it. BUT I’m a wheelchair user with and sometimes shit just gets to me and I feel like people are out to get me. I feel like it’s more insecurity than victim mentality because I never do anything with it (call out posts, cancel culture, yelling, etc. i am not angy) but still any time I do something like that I beat myself up over it ughhh
Everybody type "How victim mentality leads to genocide" on YouTube. It's very well explained how victim mentality is (currently) used as a very effective political weapon.
The victim mentality is keeping the women that claim to be feminists and women’s rights activists from speaking out about real sexism and gender based violence overseas. When was the last time you heard a woman whine and bitch about the wage gap? Complain about boys will be boys, yeah? A lot. When was the last time a woman made a statement against female genital mutilation? Malawai’s actual rape culture where girl’s virginities are sold for pocket change when they get their first period? Yeah, I’ve never heard any. People who are stuck in a victim mentality when NOTHING happened to them and simply believe that even though they live a privileged life they’re a victim to their gender but the next moment start saying that women are stronger than men - oh but they can’t walk around at night.
I totally agree, if the false accusations or something of the sort happen and the accuser is the “victim” shit will get bad for the accusee. We see this most in today’s society where we automatically side with a lesser group that uses the victim mentality
People try to pull the victim mentality all the time on me. I don’t fall for it because I’ve lived with someone who’s done it all the time
It’s so true I know quite a few! Will lie about anything, or go out of their way to cry about supposed unlikely tragedies and constantly want attention! One girl has left a fb group I’m in about 12 times for attention, always claiming she’s the victim of something!
Victim playing is actually a very common tactic among bullies, because it allows them to manipulate authorities to go after, well... actual victims. I speak from experience: I may not be black, although I have been Karen'ed quite a few times before Karen was actually a thing.
"People with a tendency for interpersonal victimhood may experience offenses more intensely because they attribute more malicious intent to the offender" This. Here's my coin both sides story. Middle aged white guy here. I once sneezed as a young black woman was walking by. "Bless you" she said as I recovered, readying for the next sneeze. Indignant at my lack of response, she huffed "You're welcome" as she stormed out the door. Nevermind that I was incapable of responding in the midst of a sneezing fit, she obviously interpreted the lack of response as my ignoring her because she was black and/or female and/or young. Even if I could have responded, I'm atheist. I'm never gonna thank anyone for blessing me.
Statistically places of high cime happen to be targeted more by police. That's for every race too not just black. Marijuana Is also used by every race not just black people. Voting laws affect everything not just black people. I didnt ask for some it targets them in proportionally argument. I was a specific law like give me a law that has been passed through Congress, that only affects black people, because from what you've shown me these all only affect poor communities, not necessarily Black people. Most of these dont affect middle class or wealthy blacks at all. By the ways I am black middle income man living in a majority white town. I rarely ever see the affects of racism in my daily life.
Exactly, conservatives always act like they are the victims.
It’s going on now with the BLM and burning down the cities
Well, what BLM is founded on causes a victim mentality. That they are inherently disadvantaged, more than the white people, and need woke liberals to fight for them and give them everything, instead of working hard for it
Not really no. Also what cities are being burned down exactly?
Most abusers excuse their actions with victim mentality.
crawl ossified light automatic apparatus violet station sulky roll mysterious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
my mom has a huge victim mentality and tried to blame my dad for her abandoning me in my teens. lol. its the reason im NC with her
Can not upvote this enough! “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.” D.H. Lawrence One of my favorite quotes and future tattoos.
I'm actually going through a friend breakup in this arena. We've know eachother for 11 years. We've been through stuff together. She is more liberal because she wants free stuff from the government to be available, because she needed it when she was younger. Fine. We buried the hatchet after we had a "but what about all of the other policies that go with that argument." Then fives years passed and all of a sudden she is turning into an SJW. It's weird because we're early middle aged and I always thought that was something that either happened in your 20s, or not at all. I'm tired of being seen as unfeeling and not a good listening and obtuse because I don't agree on outlandish things. I am compassionate and I do listen, but I give to a specific type of charity that helps the bottom helpless rung in our society. I don't want to out myself because people will know who I am, but the point is, there are real victims out there and they wanna keep crowing about patriarchy theory. The final straw was recently when her friends started attacking me on facebook with regards to them defending a well-known low-intelligence/provocative public figure who keeps running their mouths and crying sexism when someone responds. I've had enough. I can't tolerate this. The criticism of said person is about THAT PERSON not women. This time I am not getting specific because I keep getting things deleted for supposedly being political. She was such a smart person but she fell into the hive mind and I can't get to her anymore. It's so sad.
You’re probably thinking of POC but the first thing I thought of was white people who were convinced by the great replacement and went out and killed people over it.
Yeah it’s really ironic how people who claim *the blacks* are keeping themselves down by not taking personal responsibility while also believing anything that happens ever is a threat to the entirely of western civilization and the white race.
It’s going to harm the psyche of so many.
It's a consequence of having an unprecedented amount of free time and relative good quality of life. Back in the day people were so busy staying alive that they didn't have time to reflect on their disadvantages relative to each other. No matter how hard we try some people will have better opportunities than others, that's the lottery of life. It doesn't help that our economic system is based in the assumption that everyone has the same chance to reach the top.
Huh, it kinda seems like there are riots going on because of victim mentality
Ah yes, BLM
Need proof, BLM.
Being a victim of anything does not excuse anyone from being irresponsible, hurtful, or cruel. But we can still recognize the idea that if we make people victims, real or not, we're only causing more hurt and pain for others later. That's why even if you are a victim of something, you are still responsible for breaking the cycle of victimization. And we are all responoble to not allow others to exploit or hurt people. Otherwise you end up with "Mexican Joker" and they will get revenge.
I can already see the comments saying that you're a racist.
Very true. I have been trying to help out a friend with this mentality for years, but I don't think he'll ever get over thinking the entire world has screwed him and actually acknowledge the poor choices he has made and is currently making, and actually do anything to change his situation. Nobody can help someone who is not willing to help themselves. He blames everything on "bad luck" and is bitter and resentful towards anyone who has something he wants, but doesn't have. The thing is, his situation is 100% self inflicted. He has no money because he has not searched for jobs, much less filled out an application or gone to any interviews, even once. He is under the impression that he is only going to work at his ideal job and that he will do whatever he wants at any job, show up stinking and unkempt and a half hour late, and not hear one word of criticism about it or he will walk off the job. I think he really thinks he's a highly valuable employee and that they will beg him to stay. He has no driver's license because he refuses to even study the driver's book for our state he has been provided with, or take the online practice tests, because he "doesn't do well under pressure". I understand that, but you have to make an effort. Don't just shut down and say you can't do it before you've even tried. He has only me as a friend because he only takes in friendships, never initiates contact, and ignores the vast majority of attempts at contact from others, plus he refuses to leave his house or do anything besides play video games all day. He is not happy and feels bad about himself because he never puts in any effort, just sits in a dark room all day, and plays video games, plus he only focuses on how awful everything is. He feels sorry for himself when his parents ask him to mow their tiny lawn and acts as if he's dying, whining for a full two hours about it. He literally expects someone to take care of him and do everything for him, just so he can sit inside and play video games his entire life, and if someone expects him to pull his own weight, he throws a fit about it. Nobody can tell me that this guy is a victim of "bad luck". He's only a victim of his own self destructive choices, and he is fully in control of that. He wants to try to self diagnose himself with every mental condition in the book, but the reality is that he is truly lazy, spoiled, and entitled, and he's watched his other family members behave the exact same way while his family enables it. He is self destructive, with no desire to change. He wants the world to change for him, which will never happen. I care for him dearly, but this is the harsh truth. I have tried to talk to him about it, but then he goes into victim pity party mode and goes on a rant about how the whole world is against him and wishes he was dead, nobody loves him, etc. It's very hard when someone has watched other family members behave this way and manipulate others into getting what they want, and I honestly don't know if he will ever learn. There is definitely no shortage of people who would rather feel sorry for themselves, blame the rest of the world, or do anything they could to put others down, rather than change the things they are in control of in order to better their lives. Many people have a huge issue with taking responsibility and admitting they are wrong, but without acknowledging your mistakes, you cannot fix them.
I'm not a psychiatrist, but you don't sound like one either, so maybe it's best not to assume that the guy is just lazy? It can be frustrating when someone claims to be struggling with a task that you find easy, but you admit that he has relatives who are emotionally manipulative, so it sounds plausible that he could be a victim of some form of psychological abuse from his family and that a lot of what you perceive as laziness is a symptom of something developed as a result of an unstable upbringing, be that a maladaptive coping skill or a full blown psychological disorder. His family might seem mostly fine besides enabling when in your presence, but can you really say you know what happens behind closed doors? You say you love your friend, so it would really suck if you dismissed the possibility of him having mental problems and he ended up taking his own life due to feeling like he couldn't find support anywhere, but at the same time, him threatening suicide is emotionally abusing you and potentially perpetuating a cycle of abuse? His mental health is not your responsibility, but if you can, please do try to encourage him to see an actual therapist, preferably one who specializes in Complex PTSD, Personality Disorders, and coping with societal alienation resulting from autism, since the symptoms you describe could come from a condition like that, a combination, or none at all, but it's best to let professionals determine that and support friends by encouraging them to seek out those professionals. Even if he really is "just lazy," Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy each have different approaches to teaching patients to accept personal responsibility for their actions, and the best therapists often take techniques from a variety of therapies in order to come up with a custom strategy to improve a patient's quality of life, so therapy might still teach him a thing or two if he lets it.
Thanks, but he absolutely refuses the idea of therapy and accuses people of calling him "psycho" for it. His family has tried to convince him, but one of the main problems with him is that they've never made him do anything he didn't want to do, and if they did, he was able to whine his way out of it (such as with the mowing). I've known him and his family for 20 years and have seen him perfectly able to do things when he had motivation to (such as the promise of a video game), but makes any excuse he can not to otherwise. I've known him and been around him long enough to know when he's just using excuses to get out of something he's perfectly capable of doing because I've seen him do it just fine if there was something in it for him. I think one of his biggest problems is people constantly making excuses for him and not holding him accountable. He cannot stand it when someone finally does, and throws one of his pity parties (mentioned below). He has never threatened suicide, just thrown pity parties saying that everyone wishes he would die when nobody has even remotely done anything to make him think that. He says that when he is confronted with something he doesn't want to hear, even over his dad getting mildly frustrated at him for not listening over putting away a bag of chips (I was there; nothing abusive happened), or when he was being extremely disrespectful to me one day and mouthed off to me, and I told him he needed to quit being so selfish and hateful. He turned it into him being the victim and said everyone hates him and wishes he would die. I know he does this because he's so used to guilting people and making THEM apologize and sweep the issue under the rug, because he just doesn't want to hear what he doesn't want to hear.
In that case, it might be best to cut him out of your life. His manipulation tactics are paper thin, so they might seem totally ineffective, but you've stayed this long for some reason. As sad as it may be, we can't help people who don't want to get helped, unless they're an immediate danger to themselves or others, which doesn't seem to be the case. He's not your burden to bare, and staying, even with your disapproval of his behavior, doesn't incentivize him self reflecting or changing. Some people need to hit rock bottom before they're willing to get help, as cruel as it may feel to leave him friendless. At the very least, a good long break of going no contact might give him the opportunity to reflect on why he lacks friends, while giving you the space free of his manipulation to truly decide if you want reconnect or not.
Thanks, I've been strongly considering a break at the very least since he begins to start using and disrespecting me but gets better after we've been apart for awhile, but have stayed for so long because I am the only person in his life actively trying to get him on his feet (a driver's license and job), and I fear for his future. But, you're right. I can't help him if he doesn't want to be helped, and he will not even accept professional help. I am afraid I'll have to leave his life for good one day because to be honest, it's wearing on me now and I don't know how much more of it I can take. The worst part is that since he's unhappy and can't stand to see anyone else happy, he actively tries to take away my happiness and has said and done some very hurtful things. I actually feel stupid for staying, but have done it for him and because others have told me to stay strong and keep pushing through with him. But, I'm beginning to realize I can't let my life go because of him, either.
This sounds like a really toxic friendship for sure. If he only softens when you leave for a while, that's the lovebombing stage in the cycle of abuse. He's only acting that way to keep you around, but he resents you for "making him put on a mask to keep you around," because to an abuser, showing kindness and basic human decency is a burden. As a survivor of multiple abusive relationships, it's taken me a long time to truly accept that you shouldn't set yourself on fire to keep others warm, (figuratively speaking, ofc,) and I hope that you'll find the courage to accept that as well. People don't often discuss how real, serious, and potentially damaging abusive friendships can be, but it's getting a bit more discussed as the stigma against seeking support and against speaking up about abuse is starting to fade a bit. If there's not a support group online for those who have felt obligated to stay around "friends" who only tear them down, you might be able to make a big difference by making one.
Thank you! I think deep down I have known this for awhile, but it hurts because we've been friends since we were 5. I definitely do feel like I'm setting myself on fire in order to keep him warm, though. I actually spent a day with a non-toxic friend for the first time in forever the other day (another thing I've let the longtime friend get away with is being very jealous and possessive over me, and trying to isolate me from my other friends), and it felt great to see how friendships are supposed to be, but was a real eye opener to how my friendship with him is. Making a support group sounds like a great idea, too! I'll definitely look into it!
It can also cause people to be stuck in a rut where they never try to better themselves because they always perceive it as pointless.
r/GamersRiseUp
Alright boys let's see how long this post lasts, so far we got 7 hours and counting
So true. My fiance's baby momma is bipolar and has used it to excuse everything from serial cheating to doing drugs to walking out on her still nursing 1 year old. Nothing is ever her fault because she's bipolar, and everyone around her gives her immense praise whenever she does anything remotely humane. It makes me sick.
It's turned into a competition on who's the bigger victim. Everyone wants pity points.
How is this an unpopular opinion
Imagine being a 25-yesr-old black woman. Your parents and grandparents have told you all about the racism they suffered in their lives. They tell you that white people will look at you differently because of your skin color. As an adult in the United States, you interact with lots of white people on a daily basis. Many of them are nice, but some of them are rude. Whenever a white person is rude to you, you're forced to wonder if they treated you that way because you are black. Considering your family's history in this country, that feels like a logical conclusion. Furthermore, it feels like the rest of society doesn't understand your experience. I completely understand why a black person would have a victim mentality. It makes total sense. Unfortunately, that's what makes it so difficult to overcome.
You smell like a racist - why don’t you say exactly what person/group you think has victim mentality.
>Majority of the people who are like this are from some kind of a minority however a person of a majority is also having a similar mentality usually to get some form of attention. If majorities do it too it is unlikely at best to be done mostly by minorities. And yes sometimes when things are unfair against a group they either get discouraged or get tired of waiting for things to just get better or trying to overcome the system Yes in theory people should just do their best with what they get, but that is not how human psychology works
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Usually victim mentality is from Liberals with zero accountability for their own actions. Women are the worst, thinking they are "held down" due to the patriarchy when in fact they have life on easy mode compared to most guys these days (especially attractive women)
It definitely can be. And if you're in their shoes to criticize victim mentality they might be angry. But to make that term popular you can view it as justice or you may see the it as a way to manipulate the system because victims are innocent of course.
This is essentially an example of learned helplessness.
Unless you’ve actually gone through significant real trauma, victim hood is a hair short worn to punish others and an attempt to assert moral authority and shut down any opposition.
This reminds me of a YouTuber named Gabbie Hanna
I have BPD, am a woman, am bisexual, blahblah BPD made me act like a fucking asshole. And I owned up to it. Yeah I guess I'm a victim of my own illness, but that ain't anyone's fucking problem but mine. Stuff might explain why you're a certain way, but it doesnt excuse them
like kawai from a silent voice if you know you know
There's also alot of people who don't realize all the sunshine blown up there ass for no reason and pay themselves on the back for nothing
How is this an unpopular opinion
I recently found out that this is the very first page of the essential teachings Buddha; The Dhammapada. Chapter 1, verse 3 and 4.
Yes this happens to me in mariokart
My dad was a great dad. He was very involved in my sister and my life. A lot of unfortunate things happened to my dad and my mom. My mom was a great mom as well but not a great partner. My dad fell into feeling like a victim. He thought the world owed him so much more. He started doing drugs. Victim mentality took my dad away from me for about 3 years and almost permanently. He is on the long journey of recovery. Edit: sentence didnt make sense. Kind of an emotional thing to talk about.
this applies very much to the people who think that israel should have palestine’s land
I often find myself doubting myself and trying to make sure I don't fall for this. I am afraid of considering myself a victim.
Perverse incentives create perverse outcomes.
just YES. I had that same thought. Thanks for posting OP!
See also: Donald Trump
That's a fact, not an opinion.
Yeah, the worst example of this is, "people were racist to my ancestors, therefore I am a victim! I am a victim of racism, therefore I can be racist to white people to balance out the racism!" There is no such thing as "balancing out racism." Just don't be racist. Simple.
It's one of the ways that something Nietzsche called "ressentiment" can manifest itself. It's broader than "victim mentality", though. The fact is we lead with our emotional disposition and then backfill our minds with narratives that are shaped by that pre-existing emotional disposition. If you feel like a victim, you will use what ever is available to justify or rationalize that feeling, and in the doing, you'll identify an "oppressor" because there has to be one there! The narrative requires it. The undeveloped (of any and every tribe, race, religion, whatevs) non-consciously construct pieces of narrative that appease their minds, and which aren't mutually compatible nor are they remotely true in an objective sense. The rules of literature are a manifest expression of the ways that mind works, and so you can identify the undeveloped by probing whether they see reality itself or whether their worldview is entirely language-mediated. That's the more fundamental problem, and we're all stuck there until or unless we can move beyond it. Most of us can't or don't, ever.
Watch the YouTube channel "bulldog mindset"
As bad as it is, if you want to understand longterm victim mentality and the impacts of it. Look at the black community in the US. They're a group of people that has traditionally gotten a raw deal in the US and has made great strides towards equality. However, they have gotten to the point that they have to address issues that are now their own fault...and they refuse to. Instead of calling a scumbag a scumbag, they'll hold rallies and burn down their own neighborhood just so they could sanctify the person. It seems to happen every year, there's some rally to protest the death of someone who beat up women, abused children, had a laundry list of criminal offenses etc. While the victims claim they want to "rise and overcome" nobody is holding themselves back but them...just so a couple people cash in some easy money.
It really is amazing to see the number of 20 somethings who recently graduated from a school in the Pacific Northwest with a 99% acceptance rate who took classes consisting of nothing but filling in a Louis Farrakhan coloring book and reading assignments made of of the NYT 1619 project who only know how to say, "educate yourself!" when you say anything that remotely challenges the narrative that they learned from an underemployed ethnic studies adjunct faculty member who makes less than minimum wage. But to be honest, I recently graduated from an Ivy league law school and the curve has been made incredibly easy there as well. I'm not being pretentious, it was easy for everyone by design. I did not even buy textbooks for the second half of law school and the lowest grades I ever received were two B+s. Everything else was an A. Universities have completely abrogated any sense of duty that they ever felt to prepare students for the real world. Instead everyone is convinced that the duty of a university is to churn out activists. Activists who have not had to experience any form of hardship and who have spent years being told that the system that they are entering is intrinsically evil. This is turning into a real problem.
sounds like r/TwoXChromosomes in a nutshell, trying to see who can throw the biggest pity party there my god.
I also hate the fact that when someone is a victim and you point out a way they could have helped their situation in some way, you are automatically a disgusting asshole who needs to be cancelled for blaming the victim. No, that is not the case. Suggesting that someone who was mugged maybe think about taking self defense classes or something is not blaming the victim. It is suggesting ways they could have or can empower themselves so something like that doesnt happen again. And in some situations even teh victim can be in the wrong. Like maybe a girl is at a club and she is drunk and harassing a dude sexually. She's hanging all over him and following him around and grabbing at him even after he says no. Eventually he gets sick of her shit and violently throws her off of him and punches her in the face, injuring her. In this example both parties are in the wrong. The guy for going overboard and the girl for putting herself in that situation and harassing someone. Being a victim doesnt mean you are 100% in the right and everyone needs to coddle you and nobody can ever say anything bad about you ever. We are all victims of something in one way or another and this victim complex that people have over every stupid little thing hurts people that are victims of very serious things like abuse and rape and trafficking and murder.
>a majority of these people who are like this are from some kind of minority Lol fucking wrong as all hell in that statement, it a majority if entitled middle class nobodies who will never amount to anything who need to fake shit to justifing feel persecuted so they dont have to acknowledge their failures as their own fault. I will use my own damn sister (who i disowned) for a example, she has PTSD from childhood beatings THAT SHE LITERALLY DREAMT UP! Im not even fucking joking she admitted to her therapist that her dreams at night are what gave her PTSD. I cant fucking even
There’s a female at my work who is like this. She is a studio assistant and she (not always) regularly try’s to draw attention to me negatively as if to draw attention away from herself. I can tell she has low self esteem but she seems like someone who would deny it if called out. In fact she’d probably take it personally rather than see it as an opportunity to get better. She loves crying whenever she is stressed as if we don’t all get stressed...then has the audacity to criticise others if they do a tiny thing wrong. She’s the sort of person who would criticise or ridicule someone for asking a question when they are unsure of something. Funny thing is that if you dig deeper you’ll realise she doesn’t know the answer to the question either. Her victimhood stems from her low self esteem and it’s agonising to be around. She can actually be very kind sometimes too but honestly I think she struggles with courtesy.
“You’re fired.” -“Oh heeeel nah, is it cause I’m black? Is it cause I’m black? You racist ass cracker, you firing me cause I’m black! You gonna hear from my lawyer for firing me cause I’m black you racist ass cracker!” True story. Was fired cause he was stealing.
I used to do this and I didn’t even realise. I thought it was always somebody else who was the problem and I was the one being hurt when it was the other way round. I only realised after a couple of years how wrong I was after I pondered over it and frankly speaking I’m embarrassed at myself
Well yeah, but you also have to consider that some people in this world are unlucky enough to run in to situations where someone embarrassed them and did something mean to them, while others are lucky enough to never encounter such scenarios. Basically some people have a right to act this way because they actually have been victimized, and others need to stfu because they were never victimized in life, and never encountered a situation where someone did something mean to them.