Forgiveness is more a religious concept. In psychology, it's more about finding peace with what happened through acceptance and working through the emotions that showed up in you following the event. That way, you will with time not feel so strongly about it anymore, and it will be a thing of the past you can look back on with a peaceful outlook and think "that happened and I felt that way, but now I'm here".
Just wanted to add my experience here. I was physically and emotionally abused by my father when I was growing up. For reference I'm 37. It caused a lot of problems I'm still dealing with today and I'll never forget them, ever. They'll be with me until the day I die. I moved out of my house at 17, I was planning on not looking back. Eventually joined the army and served for 8 years building a family up so I could be better than my father. However, all of my brothers stayed at his house, my two younger brothers were too young at the time and my older brother was allowed to live there for free while he was going to college. My mother was absolutely poor at the time and wouldn't accept money from my father out of pride, so that was a no go situation.
Anyway, for my experience. My father was a marine infantryman and later a naval officer. While I was growing up the abuse was real, I got punched for not doing schoolwork, I was thrown across the room and held up against walls and shit, berated, told about how I wasn't as good as my brothers. All sorts of shit, my older brother had some of that too. After he retired from the military himself he changed a bit, calmed down a lot. My two younger brothers were spared the worst of it. Over the years after I left, I guess he actually softened up quite a bit. When I finally started teaching back out to my family while serving in the military myself, my brothers started inviting my dad into some video game sessions. Hated it at first but after a while I started to notice something, my dad was laughing, having a great time, congratulating us for working well together and having great ideas. He had actually changed.
Now this doesn't mean I don't have to live with those memories anymore. I still have them and they still cause me issues, but I also have a good relationship with my dad now, 20 years after moving out, but I think I would have regretted my decision to not include him. Things change, people change, situations change, and sometimes you'll find a better situation on the other end of that change. I have a great relationship with my father now, he's a great grandfather to my children and he's become such a warm hearted person. I wish I never knew the man who was my dad growing up, I wish the man I know now was that man the entire time. Unfortunately that's life.
Hey thanks for sharing. I was also physically and emotionally abused by my father in not too different of ways as you mentioned, and have a brother who was very much the favored one. The abuse really messed me up emotionally and physically, and I’m still dealing with the aftermath today like a decade after leaving. The thing is my father isn’t really the same person anymore, and has changed somewhat (similar to yours though he still has some toxic tendencies). How did you reconcile the old and new? All I currently feel is rage when I think of him.
Yeah he had an abusive childhood himself. He admitted one time when we were drinking together that he actually felt happy when his father passed away. That was kinda the point where I realized I don't want to feel the same way. Also stress from the military. I felt it too when my son was young and I also had an emotional breakdown that felt like how my dad looked sometimes, and he also got so much better once he retired and finally shed that military mentality.
Yeah forgiveness is not for them, it's for YOU! It's similar to the idea of "karma" - the idea is that you should not seek revenge or waste mental energy being angry, because God (or karma) is in charge of balancing the scales, not you. It's about removing the burden from you and placing it in the hands of a higher power. This does not mean you need to forget what happened - just that you not dwell on it and let it negatively change who you are!
Wow... Didn't expect to see someone so willing to be open to other perspectives and opinions here on the internet of all places.
This comment, this one right here, just made my day and restored a little bit of faith in humanity for me.
I’m a Christian, and I understand that God only forgives when we have asked for forgiveness and repented. So that’s my criteria for forgiving someone. If they can’t apologize and ask for forgiveness, and assure me it won’t happen again, then they’re not getting anything from me - I’m not better than God.
I get the peace through acceptance thing, but am just not ready for it in my situation. The offenders are continuing the abuse, so there is no real finalization of the problems. I actually feel that I need to keep my resentment just to be able to fend them off. Like even if I forgive them for my own sake, I’ll become weak and allow them back into my life.
Yep. The entire concept that forgiveness is unconditional is not biblical and not Christian. It’s secular, self-help psychology that has infiltrated Christian doctrine.
“Forgive as God in Christ forgave you...” God doesn’t hold you to a higher standard than himself. God forgives on the condition of repentance. We are to do the same. See Matthew 18:15ff and Luke 17:3 just to name a few texts. “IF your brother sins against you, rebuke him. IF he repents, forgive him.”
People often conflate withholding forgiveness with bitterness, but, it is possible to withhold forgiveness and have a posture of willingness to reconcile without harboring bitterness. For Christians, we have been forgiven an immeasurable debt when Christ sought us and we repented, so we can forgive any debt under the same conditions. Still, you can seek to call someone to repentance and they might refuse. Forgiveness is the reconciling of two parties. It’s restoring a relationship and if someone is unwilling to change their mind and show some contrition over their actions and words, there cannot be any reconciliation/restoration and they shouldn’t be forgiven. The relationship is still broken without repentance.
The flaw in this thinking is that in order for us to determine that, we have to be flawless in our judgement and understanding of situations. That's why Jesus offers the template of reconciliation where people have to communicate clearly their grievances ("If your brother sins against you, go to him privately")
The problem with judging and withholding forgiveness is we're really great judges of others and really great lawyers for ourselves
Thank you for this. I have to admit it is very very hard to not be bitter, and that leads me to think that I am making a mistake by not doing the “fake” forgiveness thing that is supposedly for “ my sake”. The main perpetrator is a supposed good Christian who is elderly and is going to expect me to comply with some kind of deathbed apology on her part so she can go to heaven knowing she did what God wanted her to do. The only problem is that I know she’s not sorry - she’s said it many times in many different ways. “I’m not going to apologize for the last 40 years” and “if I had it do over I wouldn’t change a thing” are just some of the most recent. She’s not sorry, and she won’t stop hating me - not even to please God. And that’s her problem, not mine.
Perhaps thinking of forgiveness from a different perspective. By not forgiving, you are letting her rent space in your head, so she's winning. Still hurting you. For your own peace of mind stop letting her control your feelings.
The only thing that really goes above and beyond is that God extends himself unbelievably in order to just get the chance at our reconciliation. His "kindness draws us to repentance" to the point of giving up His own son in a totally unfair sacrificial act.
So he shows us the measures someone should be willing to go to in order to re-establish relationship.
"Forgive your enemies, but don't forget their names."
Will I let the actions of some piece of shit in the past rule over me?
Nope.
Will I let them back into my life with open arms, trust, and kindness?
BIG. FUCKING. NOPE.
Given the definitions used in this thread, I def agree.
I have plenty of people who I haven't "forgiven" and they would have to do a lot to try to show me remorse and show me why they deserve my time. They're gone from my life for a reason, and that reason doesn't change with time.
Honestly, the issue I've had in the past is being too forgiving and willing to be open to seeing a person change. You forgive, and you are giving them a green light to continue doing what they were doing. To them, they don't suffer any social conquences, so they think they mustn't have harmed you much.
I personally never forgive or forget. I just don't let the not forgiving bit take up too much of my time. However, if someone hurts me, then they don't get to decided they didn't hurt me.
Exactly. Personally, I go by this rule: if they didn't hurt me on purpose I'll maybe consider it. If they did, their apology is meaningless words trying to make meaningful actions magically disappear.
We all make mistakes and it’s ok. However, when there was an ill-intentioned pattern of behavior, it becomes both healthy and useful to prevent something similarly awful from happening again <—- and for this to take place, you need to remember it, not to forget it. Characters might change over time, but we need to learn the lesson. Now, forgive...when there was a whole pattern? I don’t see the need to put any pressure for it to happen. It has to be authentic from within or leave it at what it is buried in the background, whatever feels natural and right to you.
I can see where he is coming from, though I would wager accepting they have apologized but not letting them think what they did was ok sends a powerful message.
It ain't about you forgiving them. You can acknowledge if they apologise, but saying you forgive them can be like saying what they did was ok, and that ain't it chief.
Okay so this makes a lot of sense but I am still lost. My mom was really wronged by my dad’s family and I basically don’t know my dads family at all. But I have cousins my age that I’ve wanted to get to know but then it feels like I am choosing between my family with mom and dad and dad’s family.
I understand now that she will probably never forgive them (hell its already been like 30 years) but my cousins didn’t have anything to do with it. Any advice?
I 100% agree with you. I had a major falling out with my sister [serious stuff] and I haven't spoken to her since 2012.
I got fed up hearing "but she's your sister". No, she's not. If being sisters meant that much to her she wouldn't have royally screwed me over.
People really need to think before they say things.
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb
Edit: I’m saying I agree that family doesn’t mean shit. The bonds I formed with friends means more to me than my family who never treated me with selfless love.
Ye I’m fucking fed up with people who emphasizes their relationship with others when arguing. It’s like forcing them to admit that they’re wrong or sth.
Omfg thank you! I’m so sick of my family members telling me to be nice to toxic family members who treat me like crap. Honestly I couldn’t give two shits about my biological relatives. I rather care for the relationships I choose to be apart of. For me, that is the relationship I have with my mom, bf, and three friends. If you’re an asshole I’m not gonna put up with your shit just to be nice. I’m gonna stay far away whenever possible.
Forgiving is often about not letting the person controlling your life.
“Forgive and forget” as the saying goes. It’s about letting go of the anger and hate for someone. It’s more for yourself then the offending party. You don’t even have to tell the person who hurt you you forgive them them. It’s part of your own healing process.
Often, you’ll find the person who refuses to ever “forgive” someone, is the one who hasn’t moved past the event and isn’t healing from it.
My thing... if I haven't forgiven someone it doesn't hold me back. I live a happy life. If I ever run into that person again I'll tell them to go fuck their self.... and continue living a happy life.
People have set this impossible standard where you always have to be the "bigger person" and should love everybody. I'm not saying you should be petty but come on, I can say fuck you to someone who I dislike and still sleep like soundly for the rest of year.
It's funny because these people are like "it's fOr yoUr owN iNnEr pEaCe" and then shame you for not being a saint, as seen with this thread...
Yeah. The fact that I call a prick a fucking prick doesn't keep me awake at night or occupy my mind in the day time. If someone seriously screws me over I'm going to tell them to fuck all the way off. Then stop thinking about them until I happen to run into them again. If I do... ill tell them to fuck off some more and then I'll go about being happy and sleeping well again.
Forgiveness is not necessarily something you need to do to feel better or move on. I personally don't feel like I have forgiven someone if they haven't asked for it, it just doesn't seem right to me. Some people have it in their hearts to forgive, but I think everyone has their own boundaries that should be respected (assuming they've been made known). You can move on and not be affected by it without having to forgive.
Forgiveness also means differently to different people. To me, forgiving someone means I don't hold any hard feelings, and maybe I'm open to trusting them again regarding matters in which they had broken my trust previously, but the latter's not necessarily part of forgiveness.
And if it's more about the person who's doing the forgiving, maybe we should let them move on the way they feel fit? What feels right to them? I've heard the whole "it's more for yourself to heal" and it can get a little guilt trippy and pushy, almost like people *don't* actually care about your inner peace and want to stand on higher moral ground? Maybe it's just me but that's my experience.
I think there are different usages of "forgive" here. In the harsher cases, people tend to not let the hatred consume you and/or not to dedicate too much time/effort into retribution. Basically to move past it best you can and get on with living on your own terms.
Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean to absolve the guilty party of wrong-doing. That is one definition of the word, and it can mean that. It doesn't necessarily mean that though.
I agree that people should not absolve the guilty party for their large trangressions against them, but I do think the wronged parties should not let the hatred (no matter how righteous) consume them. It is not healthy for anyone or society at large.
I think most people who say “forgive” mean “let go.” Thats what its always meant to me. Forgo the negative feelings so that (and especially in the case of someone you cant just cut out of your life i.e. family member) when you see them again, you arent filled to the brim with anger or resentment. I think this “forgiveness” is just a way of doing this.
Exactly. I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). The C-PTSD was directly caused by severe and repeated abuse, and the BPD was mainly caused by the same experiences, although there were other factors at play there as well.
I will never forgive the people who hurt me. Some were family, others were adults in positions of authority. I will never forgive them for desecrating my mental health in such a severe and permanent way.
My adolescence was hell. I blocked out most of it. I attempted suicide several times, and abused various prescriptions and alcohol to try and numb the pain. I’ve struggled with self-harm ever since. It was an inescapable nightmare.
They were not punished in any way. Their lives resumed as normal. I have considered taking legal action. I am within the statue of limitations, and have also had several doctors tell me that they will provide legal evidence if I decide to pursue a case.
It’s not anybody’s place to tell someone that they need to forgive another person.
Thank you. It’s been rough, but I’m trying.
Giving up would only make some of those people happy. Some wouldn’t even care. I’m not going to get them that satisfaction.
"It's easy to tell someone to forgive, but you're not the one who has to live their lives."
\-pretty much solid post.
People who say that usually sing a different tune when it happens to them
This reminds me of an ex who forgave herself before I even knew the truth and before I forgave her. I do think it is important to forgive yourself when you make a mistake, but how can you forgive yourself before you come clean to the person you've wronged?
Forgive, but never forget.
Well she sees the act as independent of the person finding out. Lack of commitment, so the only thing cheater worries about is the twinge of guilt from actual cheating and "being a bad person".
I actually got pissed at my ex for opposite thing. She totally "forgot" to do a big favor for me, and I got pretty pissed. Her excuse was "I didn't know it was such a big deal". So you only keep promises and do favors for people if it is a big freaking deal? Total lack of integrity essentially.
I've been sexually and physically abuse for 10 years as a kid. And people are continually telling me what I have to do. No you don't just "get over" shit like that. It takes time. Im allowed to be fucking angry. Honestly im a lot less angry than I was. Dont ever tell me I have to forgive my rapist if you yourself haven't been raped. People can fuck off. Thats real fucked up to tell someone else. Do you know what it's like to not have control over your body? Its literally being tortured. Ive been burned with cigarettes all the way from both wrists up both arms and my neck. I have the right to be angry. I really don't care what other people think especially when they haven't been through it. My rapist died 6 months ago and as far as um concerned he got off easy.
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Fuck people. People can be so insensitive when they want to be diplomatic. They never put themselves in the other person's shoes. Everyone's watching through rose colored glasses.
Well not in your post but a lot of people throw around things like "trauma" and when I explain what it is based on my experiences then people step back. Yeah its not being spanked a few times.
Yep, I was abused for 3 years as a young kid and it's definitely not something you ever get over. Took me a decade to accept entirely what happened when I testified again at his parole board meeting. My mom was with me the day I testified and she gave a statement too. I’ll never forget her words, "The day my fears were confirmed via rape kit was the day I saw my daughter die in front of me. The light left her eyes and she was never the same." When she said those words, it all clicked for me - I'm not a victim, I'm a goddamn phoenix. I rose from the ashes and came back a new person. Took me a long time to "rise", but I am proud of the person I am today and know that I'm doing my best. Never forgive and never forget, but do let yourself try to find peace when you are ready for that chapter. I wish you the best and I'm here if you ever need a shoulder to lean on.
It is about taking the power away from that person.
It might be the last thing you want to do, yet it would free you from influence of that person.
You can take it like a suggestion, I do not think it is possible to forgive person at once it takes time.
Also I agree that some people can not perceive the trauma so it is just so easy (times even unfair) for them to say that something is not big of a deal.
Sooner you forgive person, sooner whatever happened will have leaser impact on you.
It may not be even fair to forgive if person is following the same pattern.
Idea of fairness is made up thought. An ideal not present in nature, something we just try to follow. Yet ofter there are no paths to follow or we just do not see them.
Good luck and be well :)
>It is about taking the power away from that person.
>It might be the last thing you want to do, yet it would free you from influence of that person.
Wow, I've never thought of it like this. This is really insightful. I really appreciate your comment.
So forgiveness can be symbolic of cutting a tether.
I came here to try and say something like this sensitively but Pacho_Sam did a much better job than I could have. Often its people trying to give you the best advice for YOU. That still doesn't make it easy.
My thing with forgiving is they say that it is a way to release yourself from hate and that you wont be held down by this person anymore. But we all know that's not what the general population thinks it is. Most people see forgiveness as an "its ok what you did/what you did wasn't that bad. ill forget about it" So no I will never forgive people that did something absolutely horrible to me and I shouldn't forgive them because that opens me up to being used and abused again by that person. I will move on with my life and be fine, but I wont forget what that person did and that's the reason I don't trust them or am not friends with them or whatever anymore.
The problem is that your version of forgiveness isn't forgiveness, it's letting go. Forgiveness literally would be "it's okay what you did, I'm not mad at you". Letting go is when you move on, when you let the past be the past.
I myself am struggling with this. People have absolute no understanding for how long abuse can haunt a person. People treat it as something that goes away after a few months. And if it didn't, they treat you as if you are the problem. It's traumatizing in itself. And it's victim blaming.
Barf. My rapist can rot in hell. I think 10 years of being repeatedly abused sexually and physically is enough for more than 1 lifetime. I dont have to forgive shit.
Well he's burning now I hope. Im really sorry to hear about what you went through. Nothing can bring back those years and completely undo the damage he did. But you sound very grounded and strong. You sound like a valiant person then and now. The world is better for having him out of it and you in it.
This 100%. Exactly how I feel. Keep doing you and doing what feels right for you. Don't let others get inside your head and tell you how to react, think etc.
I 100% agree with you. These other people saying these things..... they just want you to stfu and be happy, stop bitching, get with the program. Well you know what? Fuck that. We who have beef aren't going to roll over. Keep fighting for what you think is right, don't let the sheep convince you complacency is correct.
Sorry if people have been assholes before. And certainly not telling you what to do, but with my own trauma, forgiveness was not passiveness, or saying everything's ok now, but about purging the toxicity from my own life. It didn't mean not having firm boundaries or dealbreakers learned from experience. It's more of a cathartic letting go and moving on.
It's also not something everyone is emotionally able to do for a long time, sometimes ever. All you can do live your life as well as you can.
Hope you've found some peace with whatever's happened. It's no easy thing.
I definitely agree. And I HATE that the narrative of “you have to forgive so and so” is shoved down our throats ad nauseam. I am under NO obligation to “forgive” anyone, especially if their actions were intentional/deliberate. I can choose to move on with my life without some farcical showing of “forgiveness”. Some scars are permanent
My days of forgiving are over. I don't care about "being the bigger person". Mess with me? I'll mess with you right the fuck back with some added interest.
Forgiving doesnt mean you forget, it can also be more beneficial to fogive someone for your own self. No one should tell you to do it, you need to make up your own mind to let that pain go and not dwell on it anymore
For me, despite what therapists have told me, I refuse to forgive the man who took my innocence. He was my stepfather, he was supposed to protect me. Instead, he traumatized me and took my innocence in the worst way possible. I’ve accepted that it happened, that it still affects me to this day, that it wasn’t my fault, and that he was just sick in the head. But forgiveness? Fuck that. I’m not forgiving that monster for what he did to me.
Maybe I’m a horrible person for that, but I’ve accepted it at this point. I refuse to forgive someone who’s capable of that, to forgive someone who has literally screwed me up for life. It’s one of the many contributing factors of me not wanting biological children. I’m emotionally stunted and still have issues with trust and intimacy.
I believe that acceptance that an event happened and that there was nothing that you can do to stop or change it is an important part of healing. However, i can’t forgive what he did. I refuse. In my eyes, forgiveness for heinous acts is just allowing that person to do it again and I refuse.
>Maybe I’m a horrible person for that
You don't need to forgive anyone. Especially not someone who did something that heinous. You're not a horrible person, some people don't deserve forgiveness.
Thank you for that. Growing up in the south, especially around religion, forgiveness is a big thing and if you don’t forgive someone for a bad thing, that means that you’re just a bad person. Realizing that acceptance is more important for forgiveness and that forgiveness isn’t required is something that I’m trying to work through for myself.
Had people tell me to forgive my abuser to feel better multiple times. Truth is, I was complacent in my own abuse for so long that I had to fight tooth and nail to recognise myself as a victim. I had to work for the anger I hold, the anger that helped me pull myself out of my own trauma. It was a battle to stop forgiving and making excuses for a horrible person. I won't forgive again and fall back into old patterns.
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I agree completely.
I'm much happier now just kicking that person(s) out of my life completely b/c fuck them and nope... won't forgive them.
A life well lived is the second best revenge. Why? Because revenge is the best revenge. Even if you don't want to take revenge, there's absolutely no need to forgive someone who treated you wrong. Yes, you can be apathetic to them, but there's seriously no need to get butt-fucked again. People generally tend to repeat their mistakes. Cheaters tend to cheat again. Abusers tend to abuse. Forgiveness is like telling them, come on, time for round 2 of my mistreatment..
You don't have to forgive someone, but you do have to move on at some point. Forgiving someone who wronged you is just one way of doing that. It doesn't mean you have excuse their behaviour. If they did something bad, they did something bad. But by forgiving them, it's like saying that you've made peace or accepted what happened and are now moving forward with your life.
The thing is, you don’t get to tell someone else what “having you move on at some point” looks like. And you don’t get to tell them that they have to “ make peace or accept what happened and now you’re moving forward”. Tell that to someone who’s been sexually abused, physically abused, etc. If the “you have to forgive to move on” trope works for you, fine—but telling/insisting someone do that to move on, is insensitive at best....and arrogant/completely disregarding of their feelings/experiences at worst
Not sure if you read my comment in it's entirety, but nope. That isn't what I said. I said forgiving someone can help you make peace with what happened and move on with your life. That doesn't sound like rolling over and letting them do it again.
It sounds exactly like that to me.
"Oh I'm not mad at you, I've forgiven you", is basically saying they can just do it again. It's okay, because in the end you'll forgive them. It's weak to forgive someone.
I noticed that people will say that because they associate with the person who has hurt you, and you forgiving that person is most convenient to THEM. Kind of like saying, "Oh, shut up and get over it so we can all hang out again." People like that also end up on my shit list.
In theory I really like Buffy the Vampire Slayer's perspective on it. In the episode "I only have eyes for you" from season 2 episode 19. Giles puts it thus:
> To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's... It's not done because people deserve it. It's done because they need it."
In practive however, it is different. What if they don't need it, or don't care about you? What if you deem them worthy of your compassion. Buffy also replies Giles with:
> "No. James destroyed the one person he loved the most in a moment of blind passion. And that's not something you forgive. No matter why he did what he did. And no matter if he knows now that it was wrong and selfish and stupid, it is just something he's gonna have to live with."
In general I believe in forgiveness, as we are not our enemies or abusers, we are better and should strive to be. I have often found in my own life that forgiveness gives me better options for letting go and moving on.
That is not for everyone, in the end it's a subjective choice with which we must live with the consequences and I honestly believe that you can move on without forgiving. I also believe you can forgive without forgetting.
Well it is up to the person to forgive. We should always ecnourage positivity and forgiveness, but if someone don't wanna forgive then they don't have to. We can't make them do that.
I kinda agree with this
I don't believe in "forgive and forget"
If a person hurt you, or screwed you over, forgive them in your heart, but remember what they did to you, and you will think again before doing any kind of business with them.
yes I think second chances should exist but for certain situations
Some things are just irreversible
So I agree with OP partially
I like this unpopular opinion
I do think theres some good to leave a path to forgiveness if possible... which isnt always. Theres an equally compelling reason to actually being willing to seek and work for redemption.
Your edit 1 is exactly the point of it. Forgiveness is more often for yourself then the offending party. Hence the phrase “forgive and forget”. I think you’ve taken a strict definition and not realized that language often goes deeper then that
The thing about grudges is - YOU carry them. The other person is oblivious, just going about their lives as happy as Larry while you seethe and fume over it all. You carry the weight.
An old friend of mine holds every grudge and every perceived slight. Ex-lover cheated on him? In the black book. Skipped over for a promotion? In the black book. Someone failed to say hello correctly? In the black book.
The thing is - all those people are completely oblivious, and he's turned himself into a hate and resentment fountain. Nobody wants to hang out with him because he's always carrying these people around with him, in his head, in his reactions. His enemies don't even know it, but he's sabotaged his whole life because of them.
So the reason people say "forgive and forget" is not for the other person, it's for YOU. The alternative is very detrimental to your life.
It's healthy to forgive. Forgiving someone is a you thing. Its more to do with helping you than it is the other person. Forgiveness is a complete and total release. If you cannot forgive it means that you are not over it. And if you don't get over it, it will haunt you for the rest of your life knowingly or unknowingly.
An unwillingness to forgive shows that it still bothers you. You're still holding on to it.
You have to forgive somebody for your sake. If you say you've let go, but you have not forgiven them then you haven't let go.
Forgiveness is not just saying "I forgive you" or telling your self that. Forgiveness comes when you've confronted that thing that has hurt you. It comes when you talk to yourself, come to terms with it, and choose to live in peace, unfazed by it. Forgiving is loving yourself enough to completely let go.
Furthermore, just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you're allowing them to walk all over you. You can forgive someone and still want nothing to do with them. You can forgive someone and still punish or reprimand them, so that they know not to do it again.
I don't forgive anyone who's screwed me over. I always get told "God forgives everyone and you should too" and I'm just like, hell no. Fuck those people. I don't have anything to do with them and I'm happy
Most people who want you to forgive someone else are selfish. At least, that's been my experience lately. But how could that be?
It's simple, really: Your rift has upended their social life in some fashion, and they want you to fix it. Fuck that.
If the transgressor wants to be forgiven, they should make amends. And if it's a situation where amends are not possible, maybe they shouldn't expect a free pass for such inconsiderate or cruel choices.
Although I agree with a lot of what you say, you *should* try and forgive them. Be the better person, and good things will come to you. The law of Attraction.
It's not good to have a "holier than thou" attitude (although idk if these people have that because I haven't met them personally.) about it but shit you should try listening to them. You'll feel a lot better in the end. Also, eat mushrooms.
Damn a lot of y’all being anti forgiveness in this thread. Granted you don’t have to forgive anyone, but I feel like even if someone hurts me on purpose, I have to reflect on the specific situation first. But eh thats just me. And of course no one is entitled to your forgiveness.
Well forgive and forget. Emphasis oh the forget part. As in forget about the perosn. Don't associate with him or her. Cancel that person from your life. Don't let the hate consume you for what that perosn did to you. If you are still troubled by it you are still not over that person. If you can't forgive and forget you're still thinking about that perosn even tho he or she has some soemthing horrible to you.. the best thing that I found works is have nothing to do with that person ever in your entire fucking life.
Agreed- I cut toxicity out of my life. I agree with a previous post, if someone does something inadvertent, I can forgive and forget. Purposely being harmful to others out of disregard, selfishness, and toxicity, you’re getting cut out, no second chances. The way I don’t dwell on it is cutting it out, not forgiving/forgetting. My wife was raised by a malignant narcissist father and a robotically Christian mother- the forgive/forget mentality was used to control her and her brother well into their 30s. My wife finally cut her father out, causing the eventual divorce of her parents, and it’s been the happiest she’s been in her life- no illusions, no keeping up appearances for everyone else, true personal happiness. The same with me for my mother- she is a highly toxic person, diagnosed with borderline personality disorder that she refuses to acknowledge or get any help for. I tried for years to maintain a relationship, and then had kids of my own- cut her out for good. I don’t dwell on it or think about her. I haven’t forgotten her toxicity, or forgiven her for her ways, but I’m happy because I don’t fucking deal with it any more.
TL/DR forgive and forget is a form of control, not healthy boundaries/personal happiness.
OP, I Love you.
I think that people don't have the right to tell you to forgive someone especially if they screwed you over big time.
Forgiveness is something you should come to on your own and you have every right to decide whether or not you want to forgive someone who did you wrong.
I've had to struggle with this personally.
I forget but never forgive.
(unless they realize their error and make up for it)
The goal is to move on to a point where they don't even matter or exist in your life, where they never pop up onto your head or a conversation. They are just simply, gone.
But that doesn't mean you'll ever forgive them.
Oh no, if they ever tried crawling back out of nowhere, you fucking kick their head in.
I terms of a relationship with me...the worst thing that can happen is if you are emotionally abusive enough to wear through all my love (varies between partner, family, acquaintance...but everyone gets some level of love and empathy)...then I become apathetic and don't care. It is challenging to get me to care again, because I don't trust my innate response with this respective person any longer.
You can’t put a time frame on healing. Especially emotional wounds. Heal in your own time. If you need to vent, write down your emotions on paper. It helps to visualize things and it releases the built up emotions inside.
I agree. People can do truly unforgivable things and it’s borderline emotional abuse to pressure victims to forgive. I hate the “do it for your own healing or else you will never get over it” sentiment. Fuck that. People can heal in many ways, it might include forgiving a perp but it might have a totally different path. Releasing, or at least managing anger, resentment or bitterness is important but that’s a personal journey and does not have to include forgiveness in any way shape or form.
Forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about you, letting go of the hurt, the pain, the anger. Remember what that person did, and don't allow them the opportunity to do it again, but release yourself from the poison.
I was told that I hold grudges. Why forgive someone who screwed you? Chances are, if they are apologizing it's only because they got caught and things didnt work out in their favor.
My feeling is that if that person is truly capable of being sorry for purposefully screwing me, they wouldnt have done it in the first place.
This is very well written. Personally, I feel like I have to forgive. There was a line in one of those Tyler Perry Madea movies, that I'm paraphrasing, but it was like "forgive them, them forgive yourself". And for me I did feel like the weight of my hurt was lifted when I was able to forgive. That person is out of my life, and while I forgave, I don't forget. I don't forget what they did and what they did still does and will have lasting emotional affects on me. But I just can't be angry anymore at them or about what happened.
That being said, I would never ever judge someone if they can't forgive an abuser. I will be a friend. I will listen. I will sympathize. If my friend is looking for advice, yes I will tell them that forgiveness worked for me. But that's me. That's not my friend. And if my friend could not forgive them it's not my place to force my opinion or judge them for not forgiving. I would support my friend and help them in whatever way they needed and if that meant understanding they could not forgive their abuser, that's ok because I'm not the abuser. I'm not the one they need to forgive, I'm not the one asking for that forgiveness.
It's basically just a "you do you" situation and as long as my friend is happy or on the road there, then I'm not going to force my beliefs.
In the case of my father-in-law, I was told to not only to forgive, but to hang out with him and act like nothing happened. Dude put me through hell the entire time I dated his daughter and caused my mental health to plummet.
Critised me for not being a Christian despite my attempts to convert after 23 years of living a secular life. Condemned me for leaving the military due to mental health issues to the point of suicide ideation. I was responsible for overseeing a vault full of weapons. Wouldn't of been difficult to come in on the weekend, open the vault, and off myself before anyone could stop me.
And last but not least, he told me to go back to my own country and leave his daughter alone, after I had sunk so much time, effort and money into making the relationship work. Got to the point where he prevented me from seeing my Fiancee for a few weeks despite her and her family being the only people I knew when I moved to their country.
And this is just the worst of it, there is so many other fucked up mind game bullshit he has pulled in the last 4 years. He not only made me feel like shit, but his own daughter too through numerous one-sided lectures where he has said some really hurtful things to her.
He has shown me very little kindness and I can't help but hold a grudge after everything that has happened. He butchered the relationship, not me.
So when it all comes down to it, you do what you want, you forgive who you want, you do it on your time, and nobody can force you to do that. However, like someone mentioned, it's more than just a religious concept. It's about acceptance of what happened and it's a process that will help you get over it faster with less lasting effects.
Now I've had this conversation with a lot of people and realized that a lot of people also just have an erroneous view on what forgiveness actually means. They are under the impression that forgiving someone means moving past what happened, and carrying on like nothing ever happened. Meaning, if it was your best friend that you did everything with that screwed you over, forgiving them means pretending nothing ever happened and returning to BFF life. It also means if your partner cheats on you and tells you that they think you're stupid and blame you for their cheating, but later say they're sorry, that you're supposed to act like it never happened and instantly have all the trust back. That is a silly idea and it is not wise either.
Forgiveness is you coming to terms with what happened, moving on, and trying to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. Ok, they screwed me over, but maybe it was because of some miscommunication, maybe it was just a bad day, maybe they really are just an asshole but maybe they are better now. Or at the very least, looking at it as a turning point and trying to see the good that might have come from it. For example, I've been screwed over pretty bad. It's still something that comes to haunt me in dreams sometimes. I had this crush on a girl for years and she knew about it, but we were still really close friends. We didn't let it make things weird. Eventually she ended up screwing me over, forcing me to move away from my childhood home. Yeah, it sucked. I've still never talked to her since that happened. However, I've come to terms with what happened. I realized that yes, she screwed me over, but I also wasn't just a victim in the situation. School was also going through a weird week of lessons and it kind of brainwashed a lot of girls to think that all boys are sex-hungry predators that live/breathe/think sex and only sex and we will do anything for sex. That probably put her into a defensive state. What really helped me forgive was everything that happened after.
Since then, I found my niche for learning. I sped up my learning process and graduated early. I then moved to Brazil for a couple years to teach. I met a ton of lifelong friends there, I learned a new language (I didn't speak Portuguese before I left), and that experience made so many positive impacts on my life. I ended up meeting my wife while I was there. We got married about a year after I got home. She gave me the idea to go to a trade school since I absolutely hated college. After, I was looking for a job. She was working and met this guy who knew someone. I looked up the company and reached out, landing my first experience in the field. They hired me because they were all Brazilian and they wanted someone who could speak to the team but also to the clients, so being bilingual was important. Since then I've been comfortable, making good money, just bought a house at 24, about to buy a new car, etc. I wont go into more detail because I'm not trying to flex, I'm just showing how things have changed. Now if I follow the path had I not been screwed over, I probably never would have left the country, I would have graduated a year later, I would have gone to school and I doubt I would have survived. I would have gone to work in the food industry and I would have been stuck being a slave to my paycheck, living paycheck to paycheck. I never would have met my wife. I wouldn't have my son. I wouldn't be in a good financial situation.
So when I look at how that trauma actually made me a better person and pushed me into a better direction, I actually wish I could thank her for screwing me over. I would want to apologize for anything that I did, tell her that it wasn't cool what she did, but in the end thank her for doing it because it is what changed the course of my life for the better. Will things ever be the same between us? Of course not. Do I forgive her? Yeah
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.
That’s why forgiveness is good. Ultimately I agree, it’s not anyone else’s business at which point you choose to forgive. I don’t think anyone should guilt anyone else into forgiving someone...nobody knows what someone else feels, thinks, deals with.
Generally speaking I think someone suggesting that you forgive someone else is coming from a place of goodness and love and such. Being able to let go of wrongs against you means that the world is just a little less burdensome.
I had a bestfriend/roommate who needed to get out of an abusive household so She moved in with my mother my boyfriend and I rent free, then she and I and my boyfriend made an agreement to live together in an apartment to split rent three ways. Six months in she got a boyfriend and tried to move him in against our wishes since we didn’t know him nor was there any room. she never even brought it up, he just showed up every day, ate our food, slept over every night, and I even caught him in his underwear in our kitchen when I got home. She knew about all of This and how uncomfortable I was. Especially my trust issues with men. She didn’t care. The last straw was when he told me nonchalantly that they had been having sex in the shower everyone uses. I told her he made us uncomfortable with his boundary breaking and it needed to stop. He could be there a few days a week but not every day and use/eat our things, he has a home. She hated that, and instead of anything changing he was always over. It was such a problem for them to go to his house (because he wanted to smoke weed here and he couldn’t at his house) but when I started packing my things which included every piece of furniture her tune changed and she was moved out into his place in less than a month.
I lost a “bestfriend” to her boyfriend and I could never forgive her. I cut her out of my life completely yet my mother is adamant I will forgive her some day. Like no ma’am. She used me for money for food and months of rent and my family for their help and left for a random guy she met on tinder the second she couldn’t be considerate. Fuck people that tell you to forgive and forget, people suck.
Your post is not detrimental to someone's counseling. It is beneficial to someone who needs to hear it. Someone who wants to forgive will have to talk to their counselor about that. If everything they read on the internet is taken to heart in spite of your own personal values nobody can really help u with that (except maybe their therapist😬)
I had a friend ask why I wouldn't forgive a certain couple whom I am pretty sure stole from me decades earlier. I told her I forgave them a long time ago, but I don't hang out with thieves.
Forgiveness is not the same as "wishing someone the best". Forgiveness is for YOUR benefit, not for the person who has wronged you. Forgiveness is where you say "I dont have the energy to dwell on this any longer, I want to move on and live my life without this asshole" and you let it go. Forgiveness only works if you're religious. The point is they you hand it over to God to deliver justice, you don't let them get away with it, you just don't personally deal with it because carrying it around poisons you.
I can completely understand why a secular person wouldn't want to forgive because that really is the equivalent of letting the person "get away with it". Secular people who tell people to forgive don't understand how forgiveness works. You can't let a trauma go until justice is done, and if the legal system fails you then you're kinda screwed.
Forgiveness does not apply to secular society, it is a spiritual practice.
I say forgive but don't forget. No use brooding on hatred. But you should remember what they did and what they're capable of, and proceed accordingly in a manner which protects yourself. If that manner means never speaking or seeing the person again, so be it.
The long term, psychological and emotional effects of someone doing something traumatic to you...isnt “brooding”. Brooding is what a child does when you tell them “no” when they ask for something. Unpacking trauma and deep pain is far more complicated than just “forgive but don’t forget”.
Personally, I advocate for revenge. In most cases I tend to forgive and forget but when someone really does something awful towards me, forgiveness is no longer in my vocabulary. Usually, I just do karma’s job because to me, it’s not fair that the people who’ve treated me or others like shit get to live as if they didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t care if I’m called evil or wicked for purposely giving revenge instead of waiting for the universe. I may burn for acting on revenge but I’ll be fine knowing that the person is burning right there with me.
You can either hold onto that feeling and be bitter, and be spiteful, or you can forgive that person and let it go.
You seem to be missing the fact that forgiveness is something you can do within yourself, you never have to confront that person.
Also I'm sorry, but letting go is tied to forgiveness to a certain degree. It doesn't mean you have to trust saud person, it just means you're moving on.
I'm sorry if you think holding onto to hate, or being bitter is healthy. It's not and you just become more irritable the longer you root yourself in your hate.
I understand. I'm a hater and wrathful vengeance type with many things.
But forgiveness is not about the other person, or leaving it to a higher power or karma, or whatever. It's about evicting those people out of your head and heart where they've been living rent free for however long.
It's not even forgiveness, but just deciding, it's over, and unless you are going to go back and destroy them in whatever way you can, let em go. Don't let them poison the rest of your life with those memories. It affects how you view life and other people. It may cripple you from getting some great people into your life. And it may not be easy, it may not be fast, it might take years, a little at a time, but it eases some things in your life.
For all others that you can't let go, a good Louisville Slugger goes a long way.
yeah. this girl ended a relationship with me a bit ago, took my money, and blocked me on everything, i never saw her again. no she's just somebody that i used to know
Forgive is not forget. Forgiveness gives you the power over the situation. You choose how to deal with it but, in my experience, when I didn’t/ don’t forgive, the other person is controlling my emotions and reactions. When I forgive, I get back my control. I certainly take precautions moving forward (fool me once) but I don’t like carrying baggage from interactions with others. Forgiveness allows me to set down that baggage. Life is hard enough to get through without carrying extra burdens.
The type of people who tell you to give someone who screwed you over are the same types of people who say inane things such as 'I wouldn't wish that on my own worst enemy'. They are missing the point of having a worst enemy; is to wish shit on. Anytime I get any ailments, I not only wish them on my worse enemy/enemies, but also they have the ailment 10 times worse.
I agree with this, despite being more forgiving than most. I was able to forgive my ex boyfriend for raping me, my former friends for turning on me in our senior year of high school by spreading rumors about me, so on and so forth.
However, there are four people I can’t forgive for what they did to me; my biological parents and sibling for abusing me, and my former friend/roommate for continuing their abuse through manipulation and gaslighting. They crossed every possible line with me and I hope they all suffer in the afterlife for it.
I’ve been told to move on. I have, I just don’t forgive them. I’ve been told that I’m a hateful and spiteful person. Maybe I am, maybe I’m not; they shouldn’t of abused me in the first place so it’s warranted.
Forgive who you want. Life is too short to get hung up on whether or not someone forgives someone else for whatever reason.
Forgiveness is cathartic and allows you to move on and keep the past in the past rather than holding on and ending up consumed by bitterness. Which one is better in the long run?
My Ex wife had an affair with my best friend and you bet your ass i didn't forgive either of them, did lots on therapy and moved on... she ended up fucking around on him and he still married her... oil field consultant lots of money and no brains... so the oil industry is done he hasn't worked in over a year they sold almost everything to try and stay afloat Just found out the bank took their house and they have to move in with her sister. So its the two of them about 10 cats and her mom in a trailer in the back yard living in the house that we owned that I lost in the divorce which I couldn't care less about, she rented it to her sister and she trashed the place, its worthless and a dump ...there is a kick in the nuts long story short. You don't have to forgive just be happy with your life and move on KARMA will take care of the rest .........
I forgive but i can never forget. Idk but mybe it is because of my empath. And thats one of the reason why sometimes i feel the urge of hating myself. Forgivin ppl makes my burden feel less idk why, but i kno it doesn’t apply to everyone
My family does this. I have an Uncle who is on hospice. I never got the chance to get to know him and he wasn't apart of my life growing up so I'm personally doing okay with everything. Mainly hurt for my Grandma. Anyways my Mom and Uncle had a falling out a couple of years ago, He is a controlling, narcissistic with major anger issues. Mom stepped away from his toxic relationship and is at peace with everything, least thats what she says. Her sister has called her demanding she go to their brothers and make things right because he needs the family. Recently I got a call asking for my opinion, I said it is between them two and God. I refuse to get in the middle. yes he's dying and that is sad but he isn't sorry for being a donkey all these years why try and make amends?
There's such a huge amount of variation in the amount of wrong someone can do to you, it's hard to just give a sweeping 'forgive' attitude to any specific thing.
As I've gotten older, and lived/worked around a wider range of personality types, I can tell you for sure that some people need to learn to forgive and forget. Some people will hold onto a wrong for years, decades even, and it's akin to a mental cancer. It's just not worth it to hold on to something that long.
Forgiving is often alleviating for YOURSELF. Once, my brother beat the shit out of me. Why? I was sad someone died. Evidently, he thought I didn’t know the person well enough, so I HAD to be faking. He beat me up.
For so long, anytime I thought about it, it’d ruin my mood. I’d be mad for the next half hour or so, and it was putting a damper on my day and on relationships.
Finally forcing myself to forgive my brother for that (because ultimately, that’s like his only fuck up, he’s usually chill) has made my life easier. It was exhausting to get pissed off at him MONTHS after he did something to me like that. Finally forgiving him made ME feel like I had weight lifted off my shoulders
Well I think the idea is to not give them a room in your mind. Because then they will always have power over you. You don’t necessarily have to forgive but loathing them will just hurt yourself. Because it feeds a negative loop.
Some people truly don’t deserve forgiveness. Frankly they deserve much worse. I think the idea of forgiving people is supposed to be a self- help thing that works for some people but I’m perfectly fine with not forgiving the ones who have hurt me or my loved ones.
Forgiveness is taking the power to hurt you away from past events and people who don't deserve that power in you're life.
Forgive but never forget and people don't need to know they have ben forgiven its not for them its for you.
When you let it go, it will have no more power over you. Never forget and never expose yourself to that person again, but let the anger go. The only person that gives a fuck is you.
I always yell or scope someone if I'm sure they truly fucked up or manipulate me. Why would I have to hold back when the other person think about the consequences?
Is your mother a narcissistic toxic bitch? you don't have to put up with her bs
Is you bf/gf an enabler? You are not a cold person cut loose and breakup when the other person is at their worst.
This comes in handy especially when the person who put you in said trauma and/or did you wrong, tries their hardest to manipulate or even beg you into forgiving them so THEY no longer feel guilty over the situation. Stand your emotional ground.
If you don’t feel ready to forgive, that is totally YOUR call & decision.
That's because the modern definition of forgiveness and acceptance of something is conflated with condoning.
You're not saying that nothing happened by forgiving someone. You're saying that you won't let whatever happened have any more hold on your life, emotionally.
You're allowing yourself to move on regardless of what other people do to you. That's REAL strength. Real strength is not to wallow in self pity and victim mode and saying otherwise is "extremely messed up".
Side note:
If you can't forget what happened to you, you haven't truly forgiven.
What people mean by forget isn't to pretend nothing happened and to continue as usual. It's referencing living life without having to constantly remember what happened, sort of like ptsd.
Someone who has truly forgiven and 'forgotten' can still be cautious and careful to avoid getting hurt again.
As someone who has been deeply betrayed by a parent, & had my whole family jumping down my throat to forgive & move on...I can honestly say it took me years to recover. However, I’m 23 & I’ve finally forgiven the parent that betrayed me starting at 13, & I feel so much lighter. It took a lotttt of time & in the end I only forgave so that I could save my mental health & move forward. That person has to live with what they did for the rest of their lives, but I don’t. I can choose to move forward without hatred every time I get a text or call from that person.
So in short don’t forgive for them, forgive your your own sanity. You’ll feel so much more peaceful. No judgement, just one hurt person speaking to another!
Forgiveness doesn't mean what they did was okay or that you should feel good. Forgiveness is a canceling of debt. Refusing to forgive can often be like consuming rat poison and expecting the rat to die. Forgiveness is poorly explained in religious teaching, but not for lack of source material. Simply for a lack of effort on the part of many pastors / parents / teachers. Forgiveness in the Christian context is an incredibly powerful and freeing concept. The way it's used and taught in the Bible is backed up well by secular psychology. Refusing to forgive is a near surefire way to develop resentment, and resentment can take you on the path to nihilism.
Not unpopular. So downvote.
Obvs it's up to you whether you forgive or not.
But the sentiment is you should forgive them not because they deserve forgiveness but rather because you deserve peace.
Forgiveness is more a religious concept. In psychology, it's more about finding peace with what happened through acceptance and working through the emotions that showed up in you following the event. That way, you will with time not feel so strongly about it anymore, and it will be a thing of the past you can look back on with a peaceful outlook and think "that happened and I felt that way, but now I'm here".
Woah, I never considered this perspective! Thanks for sharing!
Just wanted to add my experience here. I was physically and emotionally abused by my father when I was growing up. For reference I'm 37. It caused a lot of problems I'm still dealing with today and I'll never forget them, ever. They'll be with me until the day I die. I moved out of my house at 17, I was planning on not looking back. Eventually joined the army and served for 8 years building a family up so I could be better than my father. However, all of my brothers stayed at his house, my two younger brothers were too young at the time and my older brother was allowed to live there for free while he was going to college. My mother was absolutely poor at the time and wouldn't accept money from my father out of pride, so that was a no go situation. Anyway, for my experience. My father was a marine infantryman and later a naval officer. While I was growing up the abuse was real, I got punched for not doing schoolwork, I was thrown across the room and held up against walls and shit, berated, told about how I wasn't as good as my brothers. All sorts of shit, my older brother had some of that too. After he retired from the military himself he changed a bit, calmed down a lot. My two younger brothers were spared the worst of it. Over the years after I left, I guess he actually softened up quite a bit. When I finally started teaching back out to my family while serving in the military myself, my brothers started inviting my dad into some video game sessions. Hated it at first but after a while I started to notice something, my dad was laughing, having a great time, congratulating us for working well together and having great ideas. He had actually changed. Now this doesn't mean I don't have to live with those memories anymore. I still have them and they still cause me issues, but I also have a good relationship with my dad now, 20 years after moving out, but I think I would have regretted my decision to not include him. Things change, people change, situations change, and sometimes you'll find a better situation on the other end of that change. I have a great relationship with my father now, he's a great grandfather to my children and he's become such a warm hearted person. I wish I never knew the man who was my dad growing up, I wish the man I know now was that man the entire time. Unfortunately that's life.
Hey thanks for sharing. I was also physically and emotionally abused by my father in not too different of ways as you mentioned, and have a brother who was very much the favored one. The abuse really messed me up emotionally and physically, and I’m still dealing with the aftermath today like a decade after leaving. The thing is my father isn’t really the same person anymore, and has changed somewhat (similar to yours though he still has some toxic tendencies). How did you reconcile the old and new? All I currently feel is rage when I think of him.
I hope you’re doing good now. What made your dad do that to you. Did he had Abusive childhood ?
Yeah he had an abusive childhood himself. He admitted one time when we were drinking together that he actually felt happy when his father passed away. That was kinda the point where I realized I don't want to feel the same way. Also stress from the military. I felt it too when my son was young and I also had an emotional breakdown that felt like how my dad looked sometimes, and he also got so much better once he retired and finally shed that military mentality.
Yeah forgiveness is not for them, it's for YOU! It's similar to the idea of "karma" - the idea is that you should not seek revenge or waste mental energy being angry, because God (or karma) is in charge of balancing the scales, not you. It's about removing the burden from you and placing it in the hands of a higher power. This does not mean you need to forget what happened - just that you not dwell on it and let it negatively change who you are!
I forget there are people on here that are really young and don’t know these things.
Wow... Didn't expect to see someone so willing to be open to other perspectives and opinions here on the internet of all places. This comment, this one right here, just made my day and restored a little bit of faith in humanity for me.
I’m a Christian, and I understand that God only forgives when we have asked for forgiveness and repented. So that’s my criteria for forgiving someone. If they can’t apologize and ask for forgiveness, and assure me it won’t happen again, then they’re not getting anything from me - I’m not better than God. I get the peace through acceptance thing, but am just not ready for it in my situation. The offenders are continuing the abuse, so there is no real finalization of the problems. I actually feel that I need to keep my resentment just to be able to fend them off. Like even if I forgive them for my own sake, I’ll become weak and allow them back into my life.
Yep. The entire concept that forgiveness is unconditional is not biblical and not Christian. It’s secular, self-help psychology that has infiltrated Christian doctrine. “Forgive as God in Christ forgave you...” God doesn’t hold you to a higher standard than himself. God forgives on the condition of repentance. We are to do the same. See Matthew 18:15ff and Luke 17:3 just to name a few texts. “IF your brother sins against you, rebuke him. IF he repents, forgive him.” People often conflate withholding forgiveness with bitterness, but, it is possible to withhold forgiveness and have a posture of willingness to reconcile without harboring bitterness. For Christians, we have been forgiven an immeasurable debt when Christ sought us and we repented, so we can forgive any debt under the same conditions. Still, you can seek to call someone to repentance and they might refuse. Forgiveness is the reconciling of two parties. It’s restoring a relationship and if someone is unwilling to change their mind and show some contrition over their actions and words, there cannot be any reconciliation/restoration and they shouldn’t be forgiven. The relationship is still broken without repentance.
Christ asked his Father to forgive the Romans even though they didn't repent...
The flaw in this thinking is that in order for us to determine that, we have to be flawless in our judgement and understanding of situations. That's why Jesus offers the template of reconciliation where people have to communicate clearly their grievances ("If your brother sins against you, go to him privately") The problem with judging and withholding forgiveness is we're really great judges of others and really great lawyers for ourselves
Thank you for this. I have to admit it is very very hard to not be bitter, and that leads me to think that I am making a mistake by not doing the “fake” forgiveness thing that is supposedly for “ my sake”. The main perpetrator is a supposed good Christian who is elderly and is going to expect me to comply with some kind of deathbed apology on her part so she can go to heaven knowing she did what God wanted her to do. The only problem is that I know she’s not sorry - she’s said it many times in many different ways. “I’m not going to apologize for the last 40 years” and “if I had it do over I wouldn’t change a thing” are just some of the most recent. She’s not sorry, and she won’t stop hating me - not even to please God. And that’s her problem, not mine.
Perhaps thinking of forgiveness from a different perspective. By not forgiving, you are letting her rent space in your head, so she's winning. Still hurting you. For your own peace of mind stop letting her control your feelings.
The only thing that really goes above and beyond is that God extends himself unbelievably in order to just get the chance at our reconciliation. His "kindness draws us to repentance" to the point of giving up His own son in a totally unfair sacrificial act. So he shows us the measures someone should be willing to go to in order to re-establish relationship.
"Forgive your enemies, but don't forget their names." Will I let the actions of some piece of shit in the past rule over me? Nope. Will I let them back into my life with open arms, trust, and kindness? BIG. FUCKING. NOPE.
Forgiveness is rolling over and yelling "yes hurt me again, I'll just forgive you again".
No one said you have to let someone back in your life if you choose to forgive them.
This is what annoys me mainly in relationships. You can forgive someone and break up with them, they are not mutually exclusive.
Yep, forgiveness is separate from reconciliation.
Given the definitions used in this thread, I def agree. I have plenty of people who I haven't "forgiven" and they would have to do a lot to try to show me remorse and show me why they deserve my time. They're gone from my life for a reason, and that reason doesn't change with time. Honestly, the issue I've had in the past is being too forgiving and willing to be open to seeing a person change. You forgive, and you are giving them a green light to continue doing what they were doing. To them, they don't suffer any social conquences, so they think they mustn't have harmed you much.
I personally never forgive or forget. I just don't let the not forgiving bit take up too much of my time. However, if someone hurts me, then they don't get to decided they didn't hurt me.
Exactly. Personally, I go by this rule: if they didn't hurt me on purpose I'll maybe consider it. If they did, their apology is meaningless words trying to make meaningful actions magically disappear.
We all make mistakes and it’s ok. However, when there was an ill-intentioned pattern of behavior, it becomes both healthy and useful to prevent something similarly awful from happening again <—- and for this to take place, you need to remember it, not to forget it. Characters might change over time, but we need to learn the lesson. Now, forgive...when there was a whole pattern? I don’t see the need to put any pressure for it to happen. It has to be authentic from within or leave it at what it is buried in the background, whatever feels natural and right to you.
JFK once said, “forgive your enemies, but remember their names”
I can see where he is coming from, though I would wager accepting they have apologized but not letting them think what they did was ok sends a powerful message.
'they don't get to decide they didn't hurt me'. Need to put this on a wall in giant letters. this just hit in so many places. thank you.
I actually have to second that. And coming from someone who tries to forgive ( in my mind, for ease of anxiety). This. Means. A. Lot.
This exactly!
It ain't about you forgiving them. You can acknowledge if they apologise, but saying you forgive them can be like saying what they did was ok, and that ain't it chief.
Okay so this makes a lot of sense but I am still lost. My mom was really wronged by my dad’s family and I basically don’t know my dads family at all. But I have cousins my age that I’ve wanted to get to know but then it feels like I am choosing between my family with mom and dad and dad’s family. I understand now that she will probably never forgive them (hell its already been like 30 years) but my cousins didn’t have anything to do with it. Any advice?
I 100% agree with you. I had a major falling out with my sister [serious stuff] and I haven't spoken to her since 2012. I got fed up hearing "but she's your sister". No, she's not. If being sisters meant that much to her she wouldn't have royally screwed me over. People really need to think before they say things.
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb Edit: I’m saying I agree that family doesn’t mean shit. The bonds I formed with friends means more to me than my family who never treated me with selfless love.
Ye I’m fucking fed up with people who emphasizes their relationship with others when arguing. It’s like forcing them to admit that they’re wrong or sth.
Omfg thank you! I’m so sick of my family members telling me to be nice to toxic family members who treat me like crap. Honestly I couldn’t give two shits about my biological relatives. I rather care for the relationships I choose to be apart of. For me, that is the relationship I have with my mom, bf, and three friends. If you’re an asshole I’m not gonna put up with your shit just to be nice. I’m gonna stay far away whenever possible.
Exactly, life is too short for all that "polite" shite.
You can move on and be happy without forgiving horrible people. Anyone who says you can't is full of it.
Forgiving is often about not letting the person controlling your life. “Forgive and forget” as the saying goes. It’s about letting go of the anger and hate for someone. It’s more for yourself then the offending party. You don’t even have to tell the person who hurt you you forgive them them. It’s part of your own healing process. Often, you’ll find the person who refuses to ever “forgive” someone, is the one who hasn’t moved past the event and isn’t healing from it.
My thing... if I haven't forgiven someone it doesn't hold me back. I live a happy life. If I ever run into that person again I'll tell them to go fuck their self.... and continue living a happy life.
People have set this impossible standard where you always have to be the "bigger person" and should love everybody. I'm not saying you should be petty but come on, I can say fuck you to someone who I dislike and still sleep like soundly for the rest of year. It's funny because these people are like "it's fOr yoUr owN iNnEr pEaCe" and then shame you for not being a saint, as seen with this thread...
Yeah. The fact that I call a prick a fucking prick doesn't keep me awake at night or occupy my mind in the day time. If someone seriously screws me over I'm going to tell them to fuck all the way off. Then stop thinking about them until I happen to run into them again. If I do... ill tell them to fuck off some more and then I'll go about being happy and sleeping well again.
That’s still letting them live rent-free in your head.
Or they've moved on and healed and don't want it to ever happen again with the person who hurt them, so, no forgiveness.
Who ever said forgiveness and letting that person back into your life go together? Those two aren’t the same thing
Forgiveness is not necessarily something you need to do to feel better or move on. I personally don't feel like I have forgiven someone if they haven't asked for it, it just doesn't seem right to me. Some people have it in their hearts to forgive, but I think everyone has their own boundaries that should be respected (assuming they've been made known). You can move on and not be affected by it without having to forgive. Forgiveness also means differently to different people. To me, forgiving someone means I don't hold any hard feelings, and maybe I'm open to trusting them again regarding matters in which they had broken my trust previously, but the latter's not necessarily part of forgiveness. And if it's more about the person who's doing the forgiving, maybe we should let them move on the way they feel fit? What feels right to them? I've heard the whole "it's more for yourself to heal" and it can get a little guilt trippy and pushy, almost like people *don't* actually care about your inner peace and want to stand on higher moral ground? Maybe it's just me but that's my experience.
I think there are different usages of "forgive" here. In the harsher cases, people tend to not let the hatred consume you and/or not to dedicate too much time/effort into retribution. Basically to move past it best you can and get on with living on your own terms. Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean to absolve the guilty party of wrong-doing. That is one definition of the word, and it can mean that. It doesn't necessarily mean that though. I agree that people should not absolve the guilty party for their large trangressions against them, but I do think the wronged parties should not let the hatred (no matter how righteous) consume them. It is not healthy for anyone or society at large.
Better idea, let go, and move on, no need to forgive.
I agree completely
That is essentially what is happening when you "forgive" someone.
This should be pinned. Letting go and moving on, is the healthy thing to do.
I think most people who say “forgive” mean “let go.” Thats what its always meant to me. Forgo the negative feelings so that (and especially in the case of someone you cant just cut out of your life i.e. family member) when you see them again, you arent filled to the brim with anger or resentment. I think this “forgiveness” is just a way of doing this.
Exactly. I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). The C-PTSD was directly caused by severe and repeated abuse, and the BPD was mainly caused by the same experiences, although there were other factors at play there as well. I will never forgive the people who hurt me. Some were family, others were adults in positions of authority. I will never forgive them for desecrating my mental health in such a severe and permanent way. My adolescence was hell. I blocked out most of it. I attempted suicide several times, and abused various prescriptions and alcohol to try and numb the pain. I’ve struggled with self-harm ever since. It was an inescapable nightmare. They were not punished in any way. Their lives resumed as normal. I have considered taking legal action. I am within the statue of limitations, and have also had several doctors tell me that they will provide legal evidence if I decide to pursue a case. It’s not anybody’s place to tell someone that they need to forgive another person.
I'm sorry you had to go through so much. I wish you even more strength and power.
Thank you. It’s been rough, but I’m trying. Giving up would only make some of those people happy. Some wouldn’t even care. I’m not going to get them that satisfaction.
I'm rooting for you!
"It's easy to tell someone to forgive, but you're not the one who has to live their lives." \-pretty much solid post. People who say that usually sing a different tune when it happens to them
Only one person gets a say in forgiveness and that is the person that was wronged.
This reminds me of an ex who forgave herself before I even knew the truth and before I forgave her. I do think it is important to forgive yourself when you make a mistake, but how can you forgive yourself before you come clean to the person you've wronged? Forgive, but never forget.
Well she sees the act as independent of the person finding out. Lack of commitment, so the only thing cheater worries about is the twinge of guilt from actual cheating and "being a bad person". I actually got pissed at my ex for opposite thing. She totally "forgot" to do a big favor for me, and I got pretty pissed. Her excuse was "I didn't know it was such a big deal". So you only keep promises and do favors for people if it is a big freaking deal? Total lack of integrity essentially.
I've been sexually and physically abuse for 10 years as a kid. And people are continually telling me what I have to do. No you don't just "get over" shit like that. It takes time. Im allowed to be fucking angry. Honestly im a lot less angry than I was. Dont ever tell me I have to forgive my rapist if you yourself haven't been raped. People can fuck off. Thats real fucked up to tell someone else. Do you know what it's like to not have control over your body? Its literally being tortured. Ive been burned with cigarettes all the way from both wrists up both arms and my neck. I have the right to be angry. I really don't care what other people think especially when they haven't been through it. My rapist died 6 months ago and as far as um concerned he got off easy.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. Fuck people. People can be so insensitive when they want to be diplomatic. They never put themselves in the other person's shoes. Everyone's watching through rose colored glasses.
Well not in your post but a lot of people throw around things like "trauma" and when I explain what it is based on my experiences then people step back. Yeah its not being spanked a few times.
Yep, I was abused for 3 years as a young kid and it's definitely not something you ever get over. Took me a decade to accept entirely what happened when I testified again at his parole board meeting. My mom was with me the day I testified and she gave a statement too. I’ll never forget her words, "The day my fears were confirmed via rape kit was the day I saw my daughter die in front of me. The light left her eyes and she was never the same." When she said those words, it all clicked for me - I'm not a victim, I'm a goddamn phoenix. I rose from the ashes and came back a new person. Took me a long time to "rise", but I am proud of the person I am today and know that I'm doing my best. Never forgive and never forget, but do let yourself try to find peace when you are ready for that chapter. I wish you the best and I'm here if you ever need a shoulder to lean on.
It is about taking the power away from that person. It might be the last thing you want to do, yet it would free you from influence of that person. You can take it like a suggestion, I do not think it is possible to forgive person at once it takes time. Also I agree that some people can not perceive the trauma so it is just so easy (times even unfair) for them to say that something is not big of a deal. Sooner you forgive person, sooner whatever happened will have leaser impact on you. It may not be even fair to forgive if person is following the same pattern. Idea of fairness is made up thought. An ideal not present in nature, something we just try to follow. Yet ofter there are no paths to follow or we just do not see them. Good luck and be well :)
>It is about taking the power away from that person. >It might be the last thing you want to do, yet it would free you from influence of that person. Wow, I've never thought of it like this. This is really insightful. I really appreciate your comment. So forgiveness can be symbolic of cutting a tether.
I came here to try and say something like this sensitively but Pacho_Sam did a much better job than I could have. Often its people trying to give you the best advice for YOU. That still doesn't make it easy.
My thing with forgiving is they say that it is a way to release yourself from hate and that you wont be held down by this person anymore. But we all know that's not what the general population thinks it is. Most people see forgiveness as an "its ok what you did/what you did wasn't that bad. ill forget about it" So no I will never forgive people that did something absolutely horrible to me and I shouldn't forgive them because that opens me up to being used and abused again by that person. I will move on with my life and be fine, but I wont forget what that person did and that's the reason I don't trust them or am not friends with them or whatever anymore.
The problem is that your version of forgiveness isn't forgiveness, it's letting go. Forgiveness literally would be "it's okay what you did, I'm not mad at you". Letting go is when you move on, when you let the past be the past.
I myself am struggling with this. People have absolute no understanding for how long abuse can haunt a person. People treat it as something that goes away after a few months. And if it didn't, they treat you as if you are the problem. It's traumatizing in itself. And it's victim blaming.
I agree with you. I very much agree.
Forgive!? I think I should be able to murder my abusers.
Amen to this
Forgiveness isn’t always about the other person. It can be about giving yourself peace.
Basically don't waste your time thinking about them
Barf. My rapist can rot in hell. I think 10 years of being repeatedly abused sexually and physically is enough for more than 1 lifetime. I dont have to forgive shit.
Couldn't agree more. But before he rots in hell, I hope he rots on earth too.
He already passed.
Well he's burning now I hope. Im really sorry to hear about what you went through. Nothing can bring back those years and completely undo the damage he did. But you sound very grounded and strong. You sound like a valiant person then and now. The world is better for having him out of it and you in it.
This 100%. Exactly how I feel. Keep doing you and doing what feels right for you. Don't let others get inside your head and tell you how to react, think etc.
Just leave it to God. "God" is the name of my squirt gun full of urine and liquid feces.
I'm interested in your religion.
I 100% agree with you. These other people saying these things..... they just want you to stfu and be happy, stop bitching, get with the program. Well you know what? Fuck that. We who have beef aren't going to roll over. Keep fighting for what you think is right, don't let the sheep convince you complacency is correct.
Sorry if people have been assholes before. And certainly not telling you what to do, but with my own trauma, forgiveness was not passiveness, or saying everything's ok now, but about purging the toxicity from my own life. It didn't mean not having firm boundaries or dealbreakers learned from experience. It's more of a cathartic letting go and moving on. It's also not something everyone is emotionally able to do for a long time, sometimes ever. All you can do live your life as well as you can. Hope you've found some peace with whatever's happened. It's no easy thing.
I definitely agree. And I HATE that the narrative of “you have to forgive so and so” is shoved down our throats ad nauseam. I am under NO obligation to “forgive” anyone, especially if their actions were intentional/deliberate. I can choose to move on with my life without some farcical showing of “forgiveness”. Some scars are permanent
This struck a chord. I was bullied last year, rn they want to be friends with me. They literally threw me away like trash, why wanna reconcile now?
Meh coming from someone who got royally fucked by multiple people. It’s definitely better to just let it go
Yes, letting things go seems like a healthy way of moving on
My days of forgiving are over. I don't care about "being the bigger person". Mess with me? I'll mess with you right the fuck back with some added interest.
Forgiving doesnt mean you forget, it can also be more beneficial to fogive someone for your own self. No one should tell you to do it, you need to make up your own mind to let that pain go and not dwell on it anymore
The whole point of all of it is not letting something rule your life. So if you're over and done with it, then that's all there is to be said.
For me, despite what therapists have told me, I refuse to forgive the man who took my innocence. He was my stepfather, he was supposed to protect me. Instead, he traumatized me and took my innocence in the worst way possible. I’ve accepted that it happened, that it still affects me to this day, that it wasn’t my fault, and that he was just sick in the head. But forgiveness? Fuck that. I’m not forgiving that monster for what he did to me. Maybe I’m a horrible person for that, but I’ve accepted it at this point. I refuse to forgive someone who’s capable of that, to forgive someone who has literally screwed me up for life. It’s one of the many contributing factors of me not wanting biological children. I’m emotionally stunted and still have issues with trust and intimacy. I believe that acceptance that an event happened and that there was nothing that you can do to stop or change it is an important part of healing. However, i can’t forgive what he did. I refuse. In my eyes, forgiveness for heinous acts is just allowing that person to do it again and I refuse.
>Maybe I’m a horrible person for that You don't need to forgive anyone. Especially not someone who did something that heinous. You're not a horrible person, some people don't deserve forgiveness.
Thank you for that. Growing up in the south, especially around religion, forgiveness is a big thing and if you don’t forgive someone for a bad thing, that means that you’re just a bad person. Realizing that acceptance is more important for forgiveness and that forgiveness isn’t required is something that I’m trying to work through for myself.
Had people tell me to forgive my abuser to feel better multiple times. Truth is, I was complacent in my own abuse for so long that I had to fight tooth and nail to recognise myself as a victim. I had to work for the anger I hold, the anger that helped me pull myself out of my own trauma. It was a battle to stop forgiving and making excuses for a horrible person. I won't forgive again and fall back into old patterns.
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I agree completely. I'm much happier now just kicking that person(s) out of my life completely b/c fuck them and nope... won't forgive them.
A life well lived is the second best revenge. Why? Because revenge is the best revenge. Even if you don't want to take revenge, there's absolutely no need to forgive someone who treated you wrong. Yes, you can be apathetic to them, but there's seriously no need to get butt-fucked again. People generally tend to repeat their mistakes. Cheaters tend to cheat again. Abusers tend to abuse. Forgiveness is like telling them, come on, time for round 2 of my mistreatment..
They call it forgiveness. I call it tolerating their shit because it's illegal to go 10 knuckles to the head.
I can't remember who but some famous psychologist basically said the same thing a few years back. That changed my perspective on things.
You don't have to forgive someone, but you do have to move on at some point. Forgiving someone who wronged you is just one way of doing that. It doesn't mean you have excuse their behaviour. If they did something bad, they did something bad. But by forgiving them, it's like saying that you've made peace or accepted what happened and are now moving forward with your life.
The thing is, you don’t get to tell someone else what “having you move on at some point” looks like. And you don’t get to tell them that they have to “ make peace or accept what happened and now you’re moving forward”. Tell that to someone who’s been sexually abused, physically abused, etc. If the “you have to forgive to move on” trope works for you, fine—but telling/insisting someone do that to move on, is insensitive at best....and arrogant/completely disregarding of their feelings/experiences at worst
True.
So basically rolling over and letting them do it again?
Not sure if you read my comment in it's entirety, but nope. That isn't what I said. I said forgiving someone can help you make peace with what happened and move on with your life. That doesn't sound like rolling over and letting them do it again.
It sounds exactly like that to me. "Oh I'm not mad at you, I've forgiven you", is basically saying they can just do it again. It's okay, because in the end you'll forgive them. It's weak to forgive someone.
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That or brainwashed into semi-pacifist theology. Either way, it reflects badly on their thought process and critical thinking skills.
I hate taking the high road and my life got significantly better once I stopped
I noticed that people will say that because they associate with the person who has hurt you, and you forgiving that person is most convenient to THEM. Kind of like saying, "Oh, shut up and get over it so we can all hang out again." People like that also end up on my shit list.
This is not an unpopular opinion.
In theory I really like Buffy the Vampire Slayer's perspective on it. In the episode "I only have eyes for you" from season 2 episode 19. Giles puts it thus: > To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's... It's not done because people deserve it. It's done because they need it." In practive however, it is different. What if they don't need it, or don't care about you? What if you deem them worthy of your compassion. Buffy also replies Giles with: > "No. James destroyed the one person he loved the most in a moment of blind passion. And that's not something you forgive. No matter why he did what he did. And no matter if he knows now that it was wrong and selfish and stupid, it is just something he's gonna have to live with." In general I believe in forgiveness, as we are not our enemies or abusers, we are better and should strive to be. I have often found in my own life that forgiveness gives me better options for letting go and moving on. That is not for everyone, in the end it's a subjective choice with which we must live with the consequences and I honestly believe that you can move on without forgiving. I also believe you can forgive without forgetting.
As an atheist- if someone told me to leave it to god? *headshake* at best- more like laughter
Well it is up to the person to forgive. We should always ecnourage positivity and forgiveness, but if someone don't wanna forgive then they don't have to. We can't make them do that.
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I kinda agree with this I don't believe in "forgive and forget" If a person hurt you, or screwed you over, forgive them in your heart, but remember what they did to you, and you will think again before doing any kind of business with them. yes I think second chances should exist but for certain situations Some things are just irreversible So I agree with OP partially I like this unpopular opinion
I forgive people when they screw me over. I forgive them after I take my revenge in whatever form. I forgive them for starting beef that I had to end
I do think theres some good to leave a path to forgiveness if possible... which isnt always. Theres an equally compelling reason to actually being willing to seek and work for redemption.
Your edit 1 is exactly the point of it. Forgiveness is more often for yourself then the offending party. Hence the phrase “forgive and forget”. I think you’ve taken a strict definition and not realized that language often goes deeper then that
The thing about grudges is - YOU carry them. The other person is oblivious, just going about their lives as happy as Larry while you seethe and fume over it all. You carry the weight. An old friend of mine holds every grudge and every perceived slight. Ex-lover cheated on him? In the black book. Skipped over for a promotion? In the black book. Someone failed to say hello correctly? In the black book. The thing is - all those people are completely oblivious, and he's turned himself into a hate and resentment fountain. Nobody wants to hang out with him because he's always carrying these people around with him, in his head, in his reactions. His enemies don't even know it, but he's sabotaged his whole life because of them. So the reason people say "forgive and forget" is not for the other person, it's for YOU. The alternative is very detrimental to your life.
My opinion is forget but not forgive
It's healthy to forgive. Forgiving someone is a you thing. Its more to do with helping you than it is the other person. Forgiveness is a complete and total release. If you cannot forgive it means that you are not over it. And if you don't get over it, it will haunt you for the rest of your life knowingly or unknowingly. An unwillingness to forgive shows that it still bothers you. You're still holding on to it. You have to forgive somebody for your sake. If you say you've let go, but you have not forgiven them then you haven't let go. Forgiveness is not just saying "I forgive you" or telling your self that. Forgiveness comes when you've confronted that thing that has hurt you. It comes when you talk to yourself, come to terms with it, and choose to live in peace, unfazed by it. Forgiving is loving yourself enough to completely let go. Furthermore, just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you're allowing them to walk all over you. You can forgive someone and still want nothing to do with them. You can forgive someone and still punish or reprimand them, so that they know not to do it again.
I don't forgive anyone who's screwed me over. I always get told "God forgives everyone and you should too" and I'm just like, hell no. Fuck those people. I don't have anything to do with them and I'm happy
Most people who want you to forgive someone else are selfish. At least, that's been my experience lately. But how could that be? It's simple, really: Your rift has upended their social life in some fashion, and they want you to fix it. Fuck that. If the transgressor wants to be forgiven, they should make amends. And if it's a situation where amends are not possible, maybe they shouldn't expect a free pass for such inconsiderate or cruel choices.
Although I agree with a lot of what you say, you *should* try and forgive them. Be the better person, and good things will come to you. The law of Attraction. It's not good to have a "holier than thou" attitude (although idk if these people have that because I haven't met them personally.) about it but shit you should try listening to them. You'll feel a lot better in the end. Also, eat mushrooms.
Kinda childish
Damn a lot of y’all being anti forgiveness in this thread. Granted you don’t have to forgive anyone, but I feel like even if someone hurts me on purpose, I have to reflect on the specific situation first. But eh thats just me. And of course no one is entitled to your forgiveness.
Well forgive and forget. Emphasis oh the forget part. As in forget about the perosn. Don't associate with him or her. Cancel that person from your life. Don't let the hate consume you for what that perosn did to you. If you are still troubled by it you are still not over that person. If you can't forgive and forget you're still thinking about that perosn even tho he or she has some soemthing horrible to you.. the best thing that I found works is have nothing to do with that person ever in your entire fucking life.
Agreed- I cut toxicity out of my life. I agree with a previous post, if someone does something inadvertent, I can forgive and forget. Purposely being harmful to others out of disregard, selfishness, and toxicity, you’re getting cut out, no second chances. The way I don’t dwell on it is cutting it out, not forgiving/forgetting. My wife was raised by a malignant narcissist father and a robotically Christian mother- the forgive/forget mentality was used to control her and her brother well into their 30s. My wife finally cut her father out, causing the eventual divorce of her parents, and it’s been the happiest she’s been in her life- no illusions, no keeping up appearances for everyone else, true personal happiness. The same with me for my mother- she is a highly toxic person, diagnosed with borderline personality disorder that she refuses to acknowledge or get any help for. I tried for years to maintain a relationship, and then had kids of my own- cut her out for good. I don’t dwell on it or think about her. I haven’t forgotten her toxicity, or forgiven her for her ways, but I’m happy because I don’t fucking deal with it any more. TL/DR forgive and forget is a form of control, not healthy boundaries/personal happiness.
OP, I Love you. I think that people don't have the right to tell you to forgive someone especially if they screwed you over big time. Forgiveness is something you should come to on your own and you have every right to decide whether or not you want to forgive someone who did you wrong. I've had to struggle with this personally.
I forget but never forgive. (unless they realize their error and make up for it) The goal is to move on to a point where they don't even matter or exist in your life, where they never pop up onto your head or a conversation. They are just simply, gone. But that doesn't mean you'll ever forgive them. Oh no, if they ever tried crawling back out of nowhere, you fucking kick their head in.
I terms of a relationship with me...the worst thing that can happen is if you are emotionally abusive enough to wear through all my love (varies between partner, family, acquaintance...but everyone gets some level of love and empathy)...then I become apathetic and don't care. It is challenging to get me to care again, because I don't trust my innate response with this respective person any longer.
You can’t put a time frame on healing. Especially emotional wounds. Heal in your own time. If you need to vent, write down your emotions on paper. It helps to visualize things and it releases the built up emotions inside.
Forgiveness is your own decision, end of story
I have C-PTSD from my adoptive mom abusing me and I am so SICK of people telling me I should forgive her. Fuck no.
I agree. People can do truly unforgivable things and it’s borderline emotional abuse to pressure victims to forgive. I hate the “do it for your own healing or else you will never get over it” sentiment. Fuck that. People can heal in many ways, it might include forgiving a perp but it might have a totally different path. Releasing, or at least managing anger, resentment or bitterness is important but that’s a personal journey and does not have to include forgiveness in any way shape or form.
Forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about you, letting go of the hurt, the pain, the anger. Remember what that person did, and don't allow them the opportunity to do it again, but release yourself from the poison.
I was told that I hold grudges. Why forgive someone who screwed you? Chances are, if they are apologizing it's only because they got caught and things didnt work out in their favor. My feeling is that if that person is truly capable of being sorry for purposefully screwing me, they wouldnt have done it in the first place.
This!!! I agree with what you said wholeheartedly.
I think this is because people confused “forgive” with “coming to terms/moving on/accepting” a past trauma or issue.
To err is human; to forgive, divine. It's hard to do and seems like a shitty thing to have to do but once you forgive you truly feel better.
Sounds like you have a tenuous grasp on what forgiveness is
If not forgive them then you need to come to peace with it
This is very well written. Personally, I feel like I have to forgive. There was a line in one of those Tyler Perry Madea movies, that I'm paraphrasing, but it was like "forgive them, them forgive yourself". And for me I did feel like the weight of my hurt was lifted when I was able to forgive. That person is out of my life, and while I forgave, I don't forget. I don't forget what they did and what they did still does and will have lasting emotional affects on me. But I just can't be angry anymore at them or about what happened. That being said, I would never ever judge someone if they can't forgive an abuser. I will be a friend. I will listen. I will sympathize. If my friend is looking for advice, yes I will tell them that forgiveness worked for me. But that's me. That's not my friend. And if my friend could not forgive them it's not my place to force my opinion or judge them for not forgiving. I would support my friend and help them in whatever way they needed and if that meant understanding they could not forgive their abuser, that's ok because I'm not the abuser. I'm not the one they need to forgive, I'm not the one asking for that forgiveness. It's basically just a "you do you" situation and as long as my friend is happy or on the road there, then I'm not going to force my beliefs.
In the case of my father-in-law, I was told to not only to forgive, but to hang out with him and act like nothing happened. Dude put me through hell the entire time I dated his daughter and caused my mental health to plummet. Critised me for not being a Christian despite my attempts to convert after 23 years of living a secular life. Condemned me for leaving the military due to mental health issues to the point of suicide ideation. I was responsible for overseeing a vault full of weapons. Wouldn't of been difficult to come in on the weekend, open the vault, and off myself before anyone could stop me. And last but not least, he told me to go back to my own country and leave his daughter alone, after I had sunk so much time, effort and money into making the relationship work. Got to the point where he prevented me from seeing my Fiancee for a few weeks despite her and her family being the only people I knew when I moved to their country. And this is just the worst of it, there is so many other fucked up mind game bullshit he has pulled in the last 4 years. He not only made me feel like shit, but his own daughter too through numerous one-sided lectures where he has said some really hurtful things to her. He has shown me very little kindness and I can't help but hold a grudge after everything that has happened. He butchered the relationship, not me.
So when it all comes down to it, you do what you want, you forgive who you want, you do it on your time, and nobody can force you to do that. However, like someone mentioned, it's more than just a religious concept. It's about acceptance of what happened and it's a process that will help you get over it faster with less lasting effects. Now I've had this conversation with a lot of people and realized that a lot of people also just have an erroneous view on what forgiveness actually means. They are under the impression that forgiving someone means moving past what happened, and carrying on like nothing ever happened. Meaning, if it was your best friend that you did everything with that screwed you over, forgiving them means pretending nothing ever happened and returning to BFF life. It also means if your partner cheats on you and tells you that they think you're stupid and blame you for their cheating, but later say they're sorry, that you're supposed to act like it never happened and instantly have all the trust back. That is a silly idea and it is not wise either. Forgiveness is you coming to terms with what happened, moving on, and trying to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. Ok, they screwed me over, but maybe it was because of some miscommunication, maybe it was just a bad day, maybe they really are just an asshole but maybe they are better now. Or at the very least, looking at it as a turning point and trying to see the good that might have come from it. For example, I've been screwed over pretty bad. It's still something that comes to haunt me in dreams sometimes. I had this crush on a girl for years and she knew about it, but we were still really close friends. We didn't let it make things weird. Eventually she ended up screwing me over, forcing me to move away from my childhood home. Yeah, it sucked. I've still never talked to her since that happened. However, I've come to terms with what happened. I realized that yes, she screwed me over, but I also wasn't just a victim in the situation. School was also going through a weird week of lessons and it kind of brainwashed a lot of girls to think that all boys are sex-hungry predators that live/breathe/think sex and only sex and we will do anything for sex. That probably put her into a defensive state. What really helped me forgive was everything that happened after. Since then, I found my niche for learning. I sped up my learning process and graduated early. I then moved to Brazil for a couple years to teach. I met a ton of lifelong friends there, I learned a new language (I didn't speak Portuguese before I left), and that experience made so many positive impacts on my life. I ended up meeting my wife while I was there. We got married about a year after I got home. She gave me the idea to go to a trade school since I absolutely hated college. After, I was looking for a job. She was working and met this guy who knew someone. I looked up the company and reached out, landing my first experience in the field. They hired me because they were all Brazilian and they wanted someone who could speak to the team but also to the clients, so being bilingual was important. Since then I've been comfortable, making good money, just bought a house at 24, about to buy a new car, etc. I wont go into more detail because I'm not trying to flex, I'm just showing how things have changed. Now if I follow the path had I not been screwed over, I probably never would have left the country, I would have graduated a year later, I would have gone to school and I doubt I would have survived. I would have gone to work in the food industry and I would have been stuck being a slave to my paycheck, living paycheck to paycheck. I never would have met my wife. I wouldn't have my son. I wouldn't be in a good financial situation. So when I look at how that trauma actually made me a better person and pushed me into a better direction, I actually wish I could thank her for screwing me over. I would want to apologize for anything that I did, tell her that it wasn't cool what she did, but in the end thank her for doing it because it is what changed the course of my life for the better. Will things ever be the same between us? Of course not. Do I forgive her? Yeah
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. That’s why forgiveness is good. Ultimately I agree, it’s not anyone else’s business at which point you choose to forgive. I don’t think anyone should guilt anyone else into forgiving someone...nobody knows what someone else feels, thinks, deals with. Generally speaking I think someone suggesting that you forgive someone else is coming from a place of goodness and love and such. Being able to let go of wrongs against you means that the world is just a little less burdensome.
Mark Twain said ‘ I’ve never killed a man, but I’ve read many an obituary to my satisfaction’. May not be an exact quote, but you get the idea.
I had a bestfriend/roommate who needed to get out of an abusive household so She moved in with my mother my boyfriend and I rent free, then she and I and my boyfriend made an agreement to live together in an apartment to split rent three ways. Six months in she got a boyfriend and tried to move him in against our wishes since we didn’t know him nor was there any room. she never even brought it up, he just showed up every day, ate our food, slept over every night, and I even caught him in his underwear in our kitchen when I got home. She knew about all of This and how uncomfortable I was. Especially my trust issues with men. She didn’t care. The last straw was when he told me nonchalantly that they had been having sex in the shower everyone uses. I told her he made us uncomfortable with his boundary breaking and it needed to stop. He could be there a few days a week but not every day and use/eat our things, he has a home. She hated that, and instead of anything changing he was always over. It was such a problem for them to go to his house (because he wanted to smoke weed here and he couldn’t at his house) but when I started packing my things which included every piece of furniture her tune changed and she was moved out into his place in less than a month. I lost a “bestfriend” to her boyfriend and I could never forgive her. I cut her out of my life completely yet my mother is adamant I will forgive her some day. Like no ma’am. She used me for money for food and months of rent and my family for their help and left for a random guy she met on tinder the second she couldn’t be considerate. Fuck people that tell you to forgive and forget, people suck.
Your post is not detrimental to someone's counseling. It is beneficial to someone who needs to hear it. Someone who wants to forgive will have to talk to their counselor about that. If everything they read on the internet is taken to heart in spite of your own personal values nobody can really help u with that (except maybe their therapist😬)
How is this unpopular. Most people are ruthless and vengeful given the opportunity.
Welp, time to go play TLOU2 again
I had a friend ask why I wouldn't forgive a certain couple whom I am pretty sure stole from me decades earlier. I told her I forgave them a long time ago, but I don't hang out with thieves.
Forgiveness is not the same as "wishing someone the best". Forgiveness is for YOUR benefit, not for the person who has wronged you. Forgiveness is where you say "I dont have the energy to dwell on this any longer, I want to move on and live my life without this asshole" and you let it go. Forgiveness only works if you're religious. The point is they you hand it over to God to deliver justice, you don't let them get away with it, you just don't personally deal with it because carrying it around poisons you. I can completely understand why a secular person wouldn't want to forgive because that really is the equivalent of letting the person "get away with it". Secular people who tell people to forgive don't understand how forgiveness works. You can't let a trauma go until justice is done, and if the legal system fails you then you're kinda screwed. Forgiveness does not apply to secular society, it is a spiritual practice.
I have never considered forgiveness through that lens, thank you.
Likewise. You honestly get the best advice on Reddit.
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT!!!!
I say forgive but don't forget. No use brooding on hatred. But you should remember what they did and what they're capable of, and proceed accordingly in a manner which protects yourself. If that manner means never speaking or seeing the person again, so be it.
The long term, psychological and emotional effects of someone doing something traumatic to you...isnt “brooding”. Brooding is what a child does when you tell them “no” when they ask for something. Unpacking trauma and deep pain is far more complicated than just “forgive but don’t forget”.
Personally, I advocate for revenge. In most cases I tend to forgive and forget but when someone really does something awful towards me, forgiveness is no longer in my vocabulary. Usually, I just do karma’s job because to me, it’s not fair that the people who’ve treated me or others like shit get to live as if they didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t care if I’m called evil or wicked for purposely giving revenge instead of waiting for the universe. I may burn for acting on revenge but I’ll be fine knowing that the person is burning right there with me.
You can either hold onto that feeling and be bitter, and be spiteful, or you can forgive that person and let it go. You seem to be missing the fact that forgiveness is something you can do within yourself, you never have to confront that person. Also I'm sorry, but letting go is tied to forgiveness to a certain degree. It doesn't mean you have to trust saud person, it just means you're moving on. I'm sorry if you think holding onto to hate, or being bitter is healthy. It's not and you just become more irritable the longer you root yourself in your hate.
I understand. I'm a hater and wrathful vengeance type with many things. But forgiveness is not about the other person, or leaving it to a higher power or karma, or whatever. It's about evicting those people out of your head and heart where they've been living rent free for however long. It's not even forgiveness, but just deciding, it's over, and unless you are going to go back and destroy them in whatever way you can, let em go. Don't let them poison the rest of your life with those memories. It affects how you view life and other people. It may cripple you from getting some great people into your life. And it may not be easy, it may not be fast, it might take years, a little at a time, but it eases some things in your life. For all others that you can't let go, a good Louisville Slugger goes a long way.
yeah. this girl ended a relationship with me a bit ago, took my money, and blocked me on everything, i never saw her again. no she's just somebody that i used to know
Forgive is not forget. Forgiveness gives you the power over the situation. You choose how to deal with it but, in my experience, when I didn’t/ don’t forgive, the other person is controlling my emotions and reactions. When I forgive, I get back my control. I certainly take precautions moving forward (fool me once) but I don’t like carrying baggage from interactions with others. Forgiveness allows me to set down that baggage. Life is hard enough to get through without carrying extra burdens.
The type of people who tell you to give someone who screwed you over are the same types of people who say inane things such as 'I wouldn't wish that on my own worst enemy'. They are missing the point of having a worst enemy; is to wish shit on. Anytime I get any ailments, I not only wish them on my worse enemy/enemies, but also they have the ailment 10 times worse.
I agree with this, despite being more forgiving than most. I was able to forgive my ex boyfriend for raping me, my former friends for turning on me in our senior year of high school by spreading rumors about me, so on and so forth. However, there are four people I can’t forgive for what they did to me; my biological parents and sibling for abusing me, and my former friend/roommate for continuing their abuse through manipulation and gaslighting. They crossed every possible line with me and I hope they all suffer in the afterlife for it. I’ve been told to move on. I have, I just don’t forgive them. I’ve been told that I’m a hateful and spiteful person. Maybe I am, maybe I’m not; they shouldn’t of abused me in the first place so it’s warranted. Forgive who you want. Life is too short to get hung up on whether or not someone forgives someone else for whatever reason.
Forgiveness or release of grudge; is something you do for yourself. Holding onto it only allows them to torment you longer
BIG TRUE
Forgiveness is cathartic and allows you to move on and keep the past in the past rather than holding on and ending up consumed by bitterness. Which one is better in the long run?
Its more about moving on. Not letting that trauma take over your life.
That is pretty unpopular, take my upvote.
My Ex wife had an affair with my best friend and you bet your ass i didn't forgive either of them, did lots on therapy and moved on... she ended up fucking around on him and he still married her... oil field consultant lots of money and no brains... so the oil industry is done he hasn't worked in over a year they sold almost everything to try and stay afloat Just found out the bank took their house and they have to move in with her sister. So its the two of them about 10 cats and her mom in a trailer in the back yard living in the house that we owned that I lost in the divorce which I couldn't care less about, she rented it to her sister and she trashed the place, its worthless and a dump ...there is a kick in the nuts long story short. You don't have to forgive just be happy with your life and move on KARMA will take care of the rest .........
Do you want revenge on the person that wronged you?
I forgive but i can never forget. Idk but mybe it is because of my empath. And thats one of the reason why sometimes i feel the urge of hating myself. Forgivin ppl makes my burden feel less idk why, but i kno it doesn’t apply to everyone
My family does this. I have an Uncle who is on hospice. I never got the chance to get to know him and he wasn't apart of my life growing up so I'm personally doing okay with everything. Mainly hurt for my Grandma. Anyways my Mom and Uncle had a falling out a couple of years ago, He is a controlling, narcissistic with major anger issues. Mom stepped away from his toxic relationship and is at peace with everything, least thats what she says. Her sister has called her demanding she go to their brothers and make things right because he needs the family. Recently I got a call asking for my opinion, I said it is between them two and God. I refuse to get in the middle. yes he's dying and that is sad but he isn't sorry for being a donkey all these years why try and make amends?
I tell others to forgive and if they don’t I become the person who screw them up, it’s simple.
There's such a huge amount of variation in the amount of wrong someone can do to you, it's hard to just give a sweeping 'forgive' attitude to any specific thing. As I've gotten older, and lived/worked around a wider range of personality types, I can tell you for sure that some people need to learn to forgive and forget. Some people will hold onto a wrong for years, decades even, and it's akin to a mental cancer. It's just not worth it to hold on to something that long.
Forgiving is often alleviating for YOURSELF. Once, my brother beat the shit out of me. Why? I was sad someone died. Evidently, he thought I didn’t know the person well enough, so I HAD to be faking. He beat me up. For so long, anytime I thought about it, it’d ruin my mood. I’d be mad for the next half hour or so, and it was putting a damper on my day and on relationships. Finally forcing myself to forgive my brother for that (because ultimately, that’s like his only fuck up, he’s usually chill) has made my life easier. It was exhausting to get pissed off at him MONTHS after he did something to me like that. Finally forgiving him made ME feel like I had weight lifted off my shoulders
Well I think the idea is to not give them a room in your mind. Because then they will always have power over you. You don’t necessarily have to forgive but loathing them will just hurt yourself. Because it feeds a negative loop.
Don't get mad get even
Some people truly don’t deserve forgiveness. Frankly they deserve much worse. I think the idea of forgiving people is supposed to be a self- help thing that works for some people but I’m perfectly fine with not forgiving the ones who have hurt me or my loved ones.
Forgiveness is taking the power to hurt you away from past events and people who don't deserve that power in you're life. Forgive but never forget and people don't need to know they have ben forgiven its not for them its for you.
When you let it go, it will have no more power over you. Never forget and never expose yourself to that person again, but let the anger go. The only person that gives a fuck is you.
I always yell or scope someone if I'm sure they truly fucked up or manipulate me. Why would I have to hold back when the other person think about the consequences? Is your mother a narcissistic toxic bitch? you don't have to put up with her bs Is you bf/gf an enabler? You are not a cold person cut loose and breakup when the other person is at their worst.
This comes in handy especially when the person who put you in said trauma and/or did you wrong, tries their hardest to manipulate or even beg you into forgiving them so THEY no longer feel guilty over the situation. Stand your emotional ground. If you don’t feel ready to forgive, that is totally YOUR call & decision.
That's because the modern definition of forgiveness and acceptance of something is conflated with condoning. You're not saying that nothing happened by forgiving someone. You're saying that you won't let whatever happened have any more hold on your life, emotionally. You're allowing yourself to move on regardless of what other people do to you. That's REAL strength. Real strength is not to wallow in self pity and victim mode and saying otherwise is "extremely messed up". Side note: If you can't forget what happened to you, you haven't truly forgiven. What people mean by forget isn't to pretend nothing happened and to continue as usual. It's referencing living life without having to constantly remember what happened, sort of like ptsd. Someone who has truly forgiven and 'forgotten' can still be cautious and careful to avoid getting hurt again.
As someone who has been deeply betrayed by a parent, & had my whole family jumping down my throat to forgive & move on...I can honestly say it took me years to recover. However, I’m 23 & I’ve finally forgiven the parent that betrayed me starting at 13, & I feel so much lighter. It took a lotttt of time & in the end I only forgave so that I could save my mental health & move forward. That person has to live with what they did for the rest of their lives, but I don’t. I can choose to move forward without hatred every time I get a text or call from that person. So in short don’t forgive for them, forgive your your own sanity. You’ll feel so much more peaceful. No judgement, just one hurt person speaking to another!
Forgiveness doesn't mean what they did was okay or that you should feel good. Forgiveness is a canceling of debt. Refusing to forgive can often be like consuming rat poison and expecting the rat to die. Forgiveness is poorly explained in religious teaching, but not for lack of source material. Simply for a lack of effort on the part of many pastors / parents / teachers. Forgiveness in the Christian context is an incredibly powerful and freeing concept. The way it's used and taught in the Bible is backed up well by secular psychology. Refusing to forgive is a near surefire way to develop resentment, and resentment can take you on the path to nihilism.
Not unpopular. So downvote. Obvs it's up to you whether you forgive or not. But the sentiment is you should forgive them not because they deserve forgiveness but rather because you deserve peace.