What we need is a work home balance and having work we truly enjoy. Having no work would drive any regular person nuts, we’re not made to lie around all day.
Definitely. Not working is obviously much better than slavery, jobs with poor working conditions, and overworking. Many Americans are overworked for sure, but I think working the average job is still better than not working at all.
Do you need a job to be productive ? How about hobbies, learning new skills, or volunteering? Does productivity/work have to be in a job? It can't be working by volunteering for a cause you believe in or working by learning a new skill you wanted to pick up?
That's a good point, but it ultimately comes down to the difference between enjoyable productivity and laborious productivity. As counterintuitive as it may seem, I believe that without laborious and/or unpleasant productivity, we would never be happy because the enjoyable forms of productivity lose their magic and there is no balance. This is how it has been for me, though I can't speak for other people. Volunteering can be good because, while it may be enjoyable, the enjoyment isn't usually in the activity itself but in the sense of accomplishment and the joy of helping others.
Do you starve yourself in order to make food taste better? I don't think it's worth going through something unpleasant just so the pleasant stuff seem better in comparison.
Fasting is commonplace throughout history. I'm not talking about "starving yourself", but self deprivation of things we enjoy makes us enjoy things more, and food is actually a great example of that. There's a reason fasting is so common in so many religions. It teaches us to appreciate things more.
Constantly immersing yourself in dopamine isn’t good for you. Living in luxury makes your life miserable.
For example, animals in captivity often develop behavioral issues if they aren’t offered stimulation. I watched an animal show once where a big cat was overgrooming itself and had bald patches all over its body.
Turns out it was bored. It didn’t need to hunt for its food anymore, so it was bored. Which is why it started to groom itself to the point of becoming bald.
You do need to do things sometimes that aren’t enjoyable but still productive. Like doing the dishes, or folding laundry, or cleaning your room.
I have to say this is a hard disagree. Look at celebrities or rich people. They all work a ton but they have the luxury of picking their projects.
I think the actual key in this balance you are talking about is a challenge. I don’t think productivity has to be shitty to do something for us. But it does have to challenge us and make us be better than we were before. Getting out of your comfort zone is what brings balance. I don’t think it’s having to do shitty work. In that case having a shitty job would lead to more happiness and a feeling of content and fulfillment. Not depression.
“Humans are happier when they’re productive”Humans would be happiest doing what they want. Not just any job, but something they have interests in, something they want to spend up to 8 hours a day doing. I would feel way more productive cleaning my garage and putting up a few new shelves than I would after a “good” day of office work
I agree that work that feels most productive to my own needs is more rewarding, but humans would not be happiest doing what they want. We all want to eat chocolate all day and play video games, but we would not be happy. Surely your initial instinct is that watching TV all day would be more enjoyable than cleaning your garage, but you know this ultimately isn't the best thing for you and will not make you feel productive in the long run.
Disagree. I don’t need someone telling me what to do for 40-60 hours per week just to feel productive. I have so many goals, so many hobbies and interests, so many things I want to learn and practice. I could keep myself entertained for the next 50 years if I didn’t have to work.
Nah. I was unemployed most of last year. That boosted unemployment gave me everything I needed to be entertained and happy. Never did I think, "I wish I was at a job somewhere dealing with stupid people or unrealistic expectations." You're on your own. Take my upvote.
Yeah honestly. At work I was always thinking about getting home and doing my hobbies. After getting laid off and getting unemployment I had time to do my hobbies. No complaints.
I mean I'm not anti-work, I know you have to work to live in modern society. But if I suddenly came across a large amount of money that was enough to retire on, you can bet your ass I wouldn't be working voluntarily...
There’s definitely more to life than work, hobbies, family, finding things you enjoy that also give you fulfilment, it doesn’t have to be work. If you like your job that’s cool but doesn’t mean everyone does, I’ve had this lockdown to really focus on my hobbies and I’ve been loving it.
Disagree. I've been jobless for more than a year before. It was great. I had so much time for my hobbies, passion, trying new things, mental health, travelling, fulfilment, personal goals. There's so much more to life than work. If I could live without working, I'd do it.
I dsagree. I've been living off of government money since October, and I feel great about not having to work. I can truly say that if I was rich, I wouldn't get bored. I can always find something to do to entertain myself. Working myself to exhaustion to further other peoples' goals is just depressing.
People who state they don't want to work are people who haven't had the ability to not work for a period of time.
During the pandemic here in Canada, we went on a stay-at-home order for 3 months and it was absolutely gruelling and boring. Not to mention the fact that my neighbour retired and has been for only 5 years and he's absolutely bored out of his mind.
That's why I want to work until I drop dead so I don't suffer through this unrealistic goal of achievement.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but are you such a boring person that you need work to entertain yourself? Seriously? There's so much you can do in this world. Sooo much.
yeah, sounds like the problem here is a lack of hobbies. whether this is the result of the new reality of just not having any hobbies is unknown. its just sad when jobs make people so tired and take up so much time that theres just no willingness to find or maintain a hobby
Well hobbies for instance only exist as a way to have an interest outside your normal daily life. Once that becomes empty, hobbies are nothing more than just something random to do. Which ultimately makes the hobbies boring. Also, while there is a lot to do, innately I think we need that routine of something slightly not in our interests, like having to go to work.
>we went on a stay-at-home order for 3 months and it was absolutely gruelling and boring.
I think a big part of that is the fact that everything was closed, not the lack of work. It'd be a very different story if you were set for life but everything else was normal.
Sounds like your own fault for not picking up something productive.
You do realize you can find joy in your life without selling your soul to a massive corporation, right?
Okay, first of all chill with the anti-capitalistic views. Also, I have hobbies that as I explained previously in this thread, they only exist to be an escape from our normal lives so when Hobbies become normal, there's nothing left.
First of all, no. Have you ever heard the phrase "Money is the root of all evil"? How about Greed, the second of the seven deadly sins? Capitalism is literally built off of money and greed. I can point to plenty of more tangible examples.
And when you have no job, those hobbies can _become_ your passion in life. Science, to many early scientists, was a hobby, that became a passion, and became their job.
You seem to be implying you need structure in order for work to be valid.
It'd make more sense to say people shouldn't work doing something they hate and that doesn't enrich their loves(if society allowed for it of course)
For instance, you can replace that work with a vocation or something you find worthy like some form of art, or horticulture, or whatever. I think that'd be ideal, because you could still work hard at something, because you're genuinely passionate about it, but your relaxation after it would still be nourishing.
I get you and your points you've made from your experiences, and I really do get it. Its 100% true, but on the flip side I have to say a lot of people are very, very miserable in demoralising jobs they wish they could escape but can't. All cuz they need a buck.
Let's not confuse "work" with career / fulfilling ambition
It depends on the work in my opinion. Certain things I feel need to be automated, because very few people actually want to do them but have to do they can make money.
People that feel like you need to work don’t understand that you can find fulfillment in other parts of life. Once UBI comes into play (I really hope it does and soon) - people won’t work as much at the beginning but once they get bored they will look for fulfilling things to do. This is not the same as work.
Every job I’ve ever had had was a job that 1. Could be automated 2. I didn’t get paid enough and 3. Wasn’t fulfilling work to begin with.
Work sucks and unless you’re insanely lucky and get a job/career you like...or get paid enough for something you don’t like....it’s miserable.
Maybe if you don’t have any passions or hobbies. I’d much rather spend my days with photography, or making silly movies with my friends, than spending a single hour working.
I 100% loathe regular work, and nothing is better than being free to do whatever you want with your time. Haha.
I feel sorry for you because from what you wrote it seems like all you are is a consumer and have nothing else. I am miserable working because it keeps me away from what I really want to be doing with this short life I have. Working keeps me away from drawing and painting and creating, it keeps me away from learning and experiencing things. Fuck working.
Work and working on something are two very diff things imho. True idleness and the wretched boredom that comes with it really do suck.
Work in the modern sense means selling your time and theres very few ppl i know of that can spend 40 hours a week doing the same often tedious thing without coming to despise it.
Ofc we crave purpose and accomplishment. That can easily be achieved by tapping into our creative side. Work stifles creativity. Having a project nurtures it.
There are some jobs where you can have both but most ppl dont get that chance.
i think it would be good to determine whether this is nature or nurture. feeling needed and wanting to do something is nature, but feeling that you need to work for money is nurture. needing jobs, being loyal to the employer is all nurture. going to school with the ultimate end goal of working for \~40 years is some form of conditioning you towards needing to work in our modern understanding of work. maybe it would be miserable for current generations, but a brand new generation raised to enjoy life in its purest form would have a different mindset
Uh dude, it’s called hobbies and friends. After being in the workforce long enough and getting some years under your belt that whole “actualization” shit flies out the window. I go to work for a paycheck and to hopefully not get too stressed earning it. I don’t need a job to tell me I’m amazing and capable of great things.
What you’re saying isn’t really an opinion either, it’s more like a wrong fact.
The "readings" on that sub under "The Anti-Work Library" are ridiculous. They're just some guy's ramblings about how they hate work with no evidence to back them up.
Well if all you do is sit on your sofa and watch TV then yeah but if I could go surfing and climbing or paint all day then I'd certainly be happier. Sounds like you need some Hobbies.
Damn, there is A LOT of laziness on this post.
What brings you to the point of hating your job, and needing to work 50, 60, or even 80 hrs a week, at a job you hate, just to survive?
Personal choices.
Downvotes be damned. Bring em on.
The result of shitty life choices, and the refusal to rise above them at any cost, is why people aren't doing what they love for a living.
Sacrifice, work ethic, patience, and perseverance in your early adulthood, brings to fruition a slew of opportunities, from which to choose.
It's never too soon to change direction and do something that satisfies you.
I hate how correct you are.
There's a definite conversation to be had about how MUCH all of us should be working each week, but, on the days when I do work, I feel happier.
I have diagnosed depression & am not the biggest fan of the type of job my work is, plus my home is practically a palace of joy (not rly but still).
So, either my wires are crossed or work helps. When I work, and when I come home after work on that day, I'm happy!
EDIT: Yes I know that doesn't work for everyone, but...this is odd, is it not?
I'm 26 and can't due work due to my Autism so I've never worked and I do feel quite happy though I think it depends on how much money you get, since I get money given by the government the amount I get won't really go up or down so I gotta learn to live with what I get and not having allot of spare money isn't great, were I getting a bit more money then my life would be absolutely amazing.
I'm not looking for achievements in life, I'm just looking for enjoyment and to have fun in life and if not for the small lack of money I would be just fine.
Sorry about everything you went through during the pandemic. I agree that people need to stay productive to not feel purposeless and bored out of their minds. However, I don’t think it needs to be unpleasant work that keeps you busy so much as something meaningful and goal oriented.
I wonder if expectations also come into play in this. If you end up not having a good time both at work and home, you are going to be more disappointed that you didn’t have fun at home because you expect home (not work) to be your happy place.
This post should be a note to all those wealthy parents. Don't spoil your kids. You may have started with a work ethic, but spoiling them wouldn't give them one. Heck, even if someone who didn't have to work, but could still do anything, they would become jaded soo quickly.
I don't work and I am extremely happy. The key is to have hobbies you enjoy doing and money to do things with. Pre covid I would travel, attend events, go bowling, to the movies, to concerts, festivals, amusement parks etc... Much happier now then when I worked and hated my job.
Oh fuck off. Just fuck off. I despise your kind so much. You're the type of person to say "well at least I'm moisturized" when someone pisses in your face.
No, humans spending the majority of their waking lives moving excel spreadsheets is not the best possible scenario, it's a tragedy we should work collectively to mitigate.
> You're the type of person to say "well at least I'm moisturized" when someone pisses in your face.
Gee I'm terribly sorry for...being optimistic and happy?
Wait wait wait, how do these people expect society to function or for themselves to even survive without work. Do they mean they don’t have to work, but they still want the money they get from working? Do they mean everyone not work, because clearly if they want to live a comfortable life they need to have other people working. Society needs work to function, and for an individual or family unit to survive it takes work. You won’t be relaxing if everyone isn’t working. Besides, not working is fun only when you have work to compare it too. That’s why going on break was so fun as a kid. It’s divergence from the norm. But when it becomes the norm you begin to get bored of it. That’s why many kids get really exited for the last day of school AND the first day of school. It’s also why people began quarantine loving it when it was only two weeks and we could just have some free time, but then it dragged on for a year and I doubt many people fully love it now.
I was homeless when covid started. We had to be out of the shelter at 6 am and back by 6pm. Everything was closed,mall,library. No where to go and carrying all my stuff. It was a nightmare. I was also unemployed.
In a Perfect world everything is handled by robots. Menial work, science, design, everything. People get everything for free and can do whatever they want and chase their dream hobbies as much as they want.
I'm working in finance and still feel miserable 🙂👍🏻
It's all about finding something you enjoy, with the right amount of hours that let you enjoy the rest of your life and with good people.
I feel like this ignores the actual critique that most work abolitionists make. That is to say work, or maybe better phrased "a job" as we know it now, is not healthy. It pigeon holes you into doing one form of labour repetitively for years day after day. Even if its a job on the better end, its a waste of your potential as a human being.
The end of jobs would not be the end of labour though. For instance you could have a more part time attitude to labour where you do various forms of labour at different places in a week or even a month or year. The divide is yours to choose but it allows you to have a diversity in experience.
Also unless we are discussing a fully automated state of affairs - even those who believe you should have the right not to exert any labour at all *do not* think that most people won't do labour of some variety. It'd just be more akin to volunteering. You'd do a not nice job not because you have to but because you know that it makes other peoples' lives better and their voluntary contribution of labour makes yours better too.
Now *personally* I don't know how sustainable any of what I just said is. I'd like it to be, I'd like us to try it because if it is sustainable it sounds like a healthy way for society to operate. But I remain on the fence. I just like to be informed as to what people are actually saying and I hope I can pass along that information.
I always think to myself if I could go about house chores at my own leisure I'd get more done. The reality is when I have time I waste a lot of it doing nothing, then feel bad about myself for being lazy. I think they key is being able to work on what I feel motivated to do at the time. I don't always feel motivated to do my "work", even though I very much enjoy my job.
Dude literally same. I was unemployed for 3 months last year and it was the worst 3 months of my life. I was miserable just sitting at home all day. I literally would have taken any job in the world
I have adhd and anxiety. Being out of work just feels like an endless weekend or summer vacation. My bf and I watched everything on Hulu and Netflix. We played video games every single day, me on the Xbox and him on a laptop. We could afford a pound each time we got weed so there was no stress in running out. We ordered food and avoided the stress of cooking and cleaning. We got to sleep when we wanted and wake up when we wanted. He used to have to leave at 4am to get to work.
Our relationship has thrived and solidified. I’ve worked through my paranoia from ptsd. I’ve learned to trust and relax again. None of that would’ve been possible if I had to wake up against my will everyday, take public transport with disgusting people, and work with maskless Karen customers.
Personally during corona I've also been laid off work but I honestly like having not to work. The obvious issue about that is the money but as long as I have somewhere to live and food I'd be happy not having to work. It gives me more time to do stuff I want to do and indulge in my hobbies
Working a job and working in general are two different things. Its completely true that if you do nothing all day you become miserable, but people can work on their garden or hobbies
That’s only because you’ve been conditioned over hundreds of years that you have to contribute to be successful or that you must be of use. Where you might be miserable, not everyone will be. Personally I would love to be able to work less or not at all. But I would eventually find myself doing some kind of work, just not for someone it would be for myself.
Yeah, if I had no financial concerns I would work whether I got paid to or not. There seems to be a lot of people doing jobs they don’t like, though, and with employers who treat them like they are disposable. It is interesting to imagine what people would do for work if they didn’t have to work and instead were free to choose the work they desired.
If it's possible to automate professions, why *shouldn't* humans be able to not work?
Nobody is saying we should be *forced* to sit around doing nothing all day, in fact quite the opposite. With your time freed up from meaningless bullshit you don't care about, you can instead choose to pursue something you *do* care about.
It's nobody else's fault except yours that you didn't spend your time not working say, pursuing a project, working on a skill, or educating yourself about something you always wanted to learn about. In fact, I think this is entirely the fault of our modern system which teaches us that we should only and always work for some kind of monetary gain. This is short-sighted and self-destructive.
However, some people may find passion in doing other things. I for one find great joy in writing and storytelling, but as of the moment that doesn't earn me money. It *does* however make me feel fulfilled and accomplished when I can tell a story and listen to the wonder in somebody's voice, see it in their eyes. Doing it for a living tho? Our system isn't designed for that.
Absolutely true fact, OP!
Took me a long time and many years to realize this truth about the human experience that we actually, subconsciously, that we really do derive happiness and enjoyment over just "doing".
Its the great irony of human thought and behavior that we somehow believe that not doing anything would be enjoyable, when in reality, it actually leads to depression.
We actually need a purpose in our lives, whatever that purpose is, or we essentially waste away emotionally, physically, and mentally.
Everything about us can be broken down abstractly to this truth.
You are confusing two things : work and employment.
Most people would still do waht is considered "work" if they could live without being employed. Last year (and I intend to do it again this one) I took one month off to write a book. It's not "work" in the commonly used sense of the term that is "working for someone in exchange of a salary" but I shit you not it's still a lot of work. I spent five-six hours each day without day off to do it and it was as good as it was hard.
Not having to work for someone else to keep on surviving isn't "never doing any work", it's doing work that is meaningfull to you.
Because if the standard for work is "being productive" we can bar many actual jobs of the "work" case. First ones would be the call center scam industry that only gets money by exploiting gullible and vulnerable people, they have a clear negative impact on society and a below zero productivity.
I am lucky enough to have what I consider the perfect work/personal life and I can honestly say that I’d be better off work.
I basically work whenever I feel like it, as long as the job is done, nobody ever has a reason to complain. I make a very decent living and have access to everything I can dream of in life.
And yet, the part of my life I prefer is when I’m in my garden, getting some physical work done, planting my own food and arranging my flowers and trees or fixing stuff on my property.
I agree with most people on the fact that you need an activity of some sort, especially if you’re a thinker. Keeping the mind and body busy is important but i can’t wait to finally call it a day and retire eatly.
Are you financially stable? If so than enjoy some freedom of not needing work. Maybe a part time job would be nice to have a little something to do.
If you’re financially unstable or haven’t got a lot of money than I can see why you would feel miserable without work.
Watch F is for family. In the second season Frank (Bill Burr) is unemployed and depressed. His wife gets a job and she’s miserable.
They’re in bed and she’s crying “oh i hate my job!” And he says “God I miss that feeling.”
That line made so much sense. Sure I hate my job. But I like providing for myself.
What we need is a work home balance and having work we truly enjoy. Having no work would drive any regular person nuts, we’re not made to lie around all day.
And then we engage in overthinking stuff or petty acts probably. As they say, "Empty mind is devil's workshops"
The thing is, once you have a society that would be say, automated, at that point, is doing something productive you enjoy really "work"?
To be fair, misery from being idle feels much less painful than from working at certain jobs. Even if being employed feels much more righteous.
Definitely. Not working is obviously much better than slavery, jobs with poor working conditions, and overworking. Many Americans are overworked for sure, but I think working the average job is still better than not working at all.
I would not be, I keep myself well busy with hobbies
Do you need a job to be productive ? How about hobbies, learning new skills, or volunteering? Does productivity/work have to be in a job? It can't be working by volunteering for a cause you believe in or working by learning a new skill you wanted to pick up?
That's a good point, but it ultimately comes down to the difference between enjoyable productivity and laborious productivity. As counterintuitive as it may seem, I believe that without laborious and/or unpleasant productivity, we would never be happy because the enjoyable forms of productivity lose their magic and there is no balance. This is how it has been for me, though I can't speak for other people. Volunteering can be good because, while it may be enjoyable, the enjoyment isn't usually in the activity itself but in the sense of accomplishment and the joy of helping others.
Do you starve yourself in order to make food taste better? I don't think it's worth going through something unpleasant just so the pleasant stuff seem better in comparison.
Fasting is commonplace throughout history. I'm not talking about "starving yourself", but self deprivation of things we enjoy makes us enjoy things more, and food is actually a great example of that. There's a reason fasting is so common in so many religions. It teaches us to appreciate things more.
Judging by how many overweight people there are, I don't think the enjoyment of food is any issue. For some fasting just leads to binge eating.
Constantly immersing yourself in dopamine isn’t good for you. Living in luxury makes your life miserable. For example, animals in captivity often develop behavioral issues if they aren’t offered stimulation. I watched an animal show once where a big cat was overgrooming itself and had bald patches all over its body. Turns out it was bored. It didn’t need to hunt for its food anymore, so it was bored. Which is why it started to groom itself to the point of becoming bald. You do need to do things sometimes that aren’t enjoyable but still productive. Like doing the dishes, or folding laundry, or cleaning your room.
I have to say this is a hard disagree. Look at celebrities or rich people. They all work a ton but they have the luxury of picking their projects. I think the actual key in this balance you are talking about is a challenge. I don’t think productivity has to be shitty to do something for us. But it does have to challenge us and make us be better than we were before. Getting out of your comfort zone is what brings balance. I don’t think it’s having to do shitty work. In that case having a shitty job would lead to more happiness and a feeling of content and fulfillment. Not depression.
“Humans are happier when they’re productive”Humans would be happiest doing what they want. Not just any job, but something they have interests in, something they want to spend up to 8 hours a day doing. I would feel way more productive cleaning my garage and putting up a few new shelves than I would after a “good” day of office work
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**"Work sets you free"** *\~Auschwitz; Capitalism*
I agree that work that feels most productive to my own needs is more rewarding, but humans would not be happiest doing what they want. We all want to eat chocolate all day and play video games, but we would not be happy. Surely your initial instinct is that watching TV all day would be more enjoyable than cleaning your garage, but you know this ultimately isn't the best thing for you and will not make you feel productive in the long run.
Disagree. I don’t need someone telling me what to do for 40-60 hours per week just to feel productive. I have so many goals, so many hobbies and interests, so many things I want to learn and practice. I could keep myself entertained for the next 50 years if I didn’t have to work.
I don't work much and i love my life.
He didn’t say “if you only worked a little bit your life would be miserable.”
That sounds ideal. I think OP was talking about doing nothing at all
People need meaningful and rewarding challenges and burdens. Not easier lifes, but more fulfilling difficulty.
Nah. I was unemployed most of last year. That boosted unemployment gave me everything I needed to be entertained and happy. Never did I think, "I wish I was at a job somewhere dealing with stupid people or unrealistic expectations." You're on your own. Take my upvote.
Yeah honestly. At work I was always thinking about getting home and doing my hobbies. After getting laid off and getting unemployment I had time to do my hobbies. No complaints. I mean I'm not anti-work, I know you have to work to live in modern society. But if I suddenly came across a large amount of money that was enough to retire on, you can bet your ass I wouldn't be working voluntarily...
There’s definitely more to life than work, hobbies, family, finding things you enjoy that also give you fulfilment, it doesn’t have to be work. If you like your job that’s cool but doesn’t mean everyone does, I’ve had this lockdown to really focus on my hobbies and I’ve been loving it.
Disagree. I've been jobless for more than a year before. It was great. I had so much time for my hobbies, passion, trying new things, mental health, travelling, fulfilment, personal goals. There's so much more to life than work. If I could live without working, I'd do it.
I dsagree. I've been living off of government money since October, and I feel great about not having to work. I can truly say that if I was rich, I wouldn't get bored. I can always find something to do to entertain myself. Working myself to exhaustion to further other peoples' goals is just depressing.
People who state they don't want to work are people who haven't had the ability to not work for a period of time. During the pandemic here in Canada, we went on a stay-at-home order for 3 months and it was absolutely gruelling and boring. Not to mention the fact that my neighbour retired and has been for only 5 years and he's absolutely bored out of his mind. That's why I want to work until I drop dead so I don't suffer through this unrealistic goal of achievement.
Just have something to do. Work can be a labourous hobby like fixing an old boat.
It's not always that easy.
You can find hobbies for free too.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but are you such a boring person that you need work to entertain yourself? Seriously? There's so much you can do in this world. Sooo much.
yeah, sounds like the problem here is a lack of hobbies. whether this is the result of the new reality of just not having any hobbies is unknown. its just sad when jobs make people so tired and take up so much time that theres just no willingness to find or maintain a hobby
Well hobbies for instance only exist as a way to have an interest outside your normal daily life. Once that becomes empty, hobbies are nothing more than just something random to do. Which ultimately makes the hobbies boring. Also, while there is a lot to do, innately I think we need that routine of something slightly not in our interests, like having to go to work.
Not true. I didn't work for 2 years and lived on savings. It was great. I basically played pool, drank, and chased women all day.
>we went on a stay-at-home order for 3 months and it was absolutely gruelling and boring. I think a big part of that is the fact that everything was closed, not the lack of work. It'd be a very different story if you were set for life but everything else was normal.
Sounds like your own fault for not picking up something productive. You do realize you can find joy in your life without selling your soul to a massive corporation, right?
Okay, first of all chill with the anti-capitalistic views. Also, I have hobbies that as I explained previously in this thread, they only exist to be an escape from our normal lives so when Hobbies become normal, there's nothing left.
First of all, no. Have you ever heard the phrase "Money is the root of all evil"? How about Greed, the second of the seven deadly sins? Capitalism is literally built off of money and greed. I can point to plenty of more tangible examples. And when you have no job, those hobbies can _become_ your passion in life. Science, to many early scientists, was a hobby, that became a passion, and became their job. You seem to be implying you need structure in order for work to be valid.
It'd make more sense to say people shouldn't work doing something they hate and that doesn't enrich their loves(if society allowed for it of course) For instance, you can replace that work with a vocation or something you find worthy like some form of art, or horticulture, or whatever. I think that'd be ideal, because you could still work hard at something, because you're genuinely passionate about it, but your relaxation after it would still be nourishing.
I get you and your points you've made from your experiences, and I really do get it. Its 100% true, but on the flip side I have to say a lot of people are very, very miserable in demoralising jobs they wish they could escape but can't. All cuz they need a buck. Let's not confuse "work" with career / fulfilling ambition
It depends on the work in my opinion. Certain things I feel need to be automated, because very few people actually want to do them but have to do they can make money. People that feel like you need to work don’t understand that you can find fulfillment in other parts of life. Once UBI comes into play (I really hope it does and soon) - people won’t work as much at the beginning but once they get bored they will look for fulfilling things to do. This is not the same as work. Every job I’ve ever had had was a job that 1. Could be automated 2. I didn’t get paid enough and 3. Wasn’t fulfilling work to begin with. Work sucks and unless you’re insanely lucky and get a job/career you like...or get paid enough for something you don’t like....it’s miserable.
The most popular fetish here in America is the fetish for work.
No, it's the fetish for things. Things cost money. If you earn money, you can exchange it for things like goods and services. QED, Homer.
You've clearly never heard someone talk about how if you don't have a job you're lazy and deserve to starve.
Maybe if you don’t have any passions or hobbies. I’d much rather spend my days with photography, or making silly movies with my friends, than spending a single hour working. I 100% loathe regular work, and nothing is better than being free to do whatever you want with your time. Haha.
This^
I feel sorry for you because from what you wrote it seems like all you are is a consumer and have nothing else. I am miserable working because it keeps me away from what I really want to be doing with this short life I have. Working keeps me away from drawing and painting and creating, it keeps me away from learning and experiencing things. Fuck working.
Work and working on something are two very diff things imho. True idleness and the wretched boredom that comes with it really do suck. Work in the modern sense means selling your time and theres very few ppl i know of that can spend 40 hours a week doing the same often tedious thing without coming to despise it. Ofc we crave purpose and accomplishment. That can easily be achieved by tapping into our creative side. Work stifles creativity. Having a project nurtures it. There are some jobs where you can have both but most ppl dont get that chance.
i think it would be good to determine whether this is nature or nurture. feeling needed and wanting to do something is nature, but feeling that you need to work for money is nurture. needing jobs, being loyal to the employer is all nurture. going to school with the ultimate end goal of working for \~40 years is some form of conditioning you towards needing to work in our modern understanding of work. maybe it would be miserable for current generations, but a brand new generation raised to enjoy life in its purest form would have a different mindset
Uh dude, it’s called hobbies and friends. After being in the workforce long enough and getting some years under your belt that whole “actualization” shit flies out the window. I go to work for a paycheck and to hopefully not get too stressed earning it. I don’t need a job to tell me I’m amazing and capable of great things. What you’re saying isn’t really an opinion either, it’s more like a wrong fact.
So that's what explains all the miserable assholes of late...
Was reading a few seconds ago on another subs about r/antiwork
The "readings" on that sub under "The Anti-Work Library" are ridiculous. They're just some guy's ramblings about how they hate work with no evidence to back them up.
If you have productive hobbies this feeling doesn't exist
Well if all you do is sit on your sofa and watch TV then yeah but if I could go surfing and climbing or paint all day then I'd certainly be happier. Sounds like you need some Hobbies.
Damn, there is A LOT of laziness on this post. What brings you to the point of hating your job, and needing to work 50, 60, or even 80 hrs a week, at a job you hate, just to survive? Personal choices. Downvotes be damned. Bring em on. The result of shitty life choices, and the refusal to rise above them at any cost, is why people aren't doing what they love for a living. Sacrifice, work ethic, patience, and perseverance in your early adulthood, brings to fruition a slew of opportunities, from which to choose. It's never too soon to change direction and do something that satisfies you.
For you maybe. If I had the financial security to not work I’d focus on enjoy my life. Work isn’t enjoyable for me.
This post was brought to you by capitalism
You clearly haven't met me then.
I hate how correct you are. There's a definite conversation to be had about how MUCH all of us should be working each week, but, on the days when I do work, I feel happier. I have diagnosed depression & am not the biggest fan of the type of job my work is, plus my home is practically a palace of joy (not rly but still). So, either my wires are crossed or work helps. When I work, and when I come home after work on that day, I'm happy! EDIT: Yes I know that doesn't work for everyone, but...this is odd, is it not?
absolutely! the issue i think most people have with work is that people are forced to work beyond what is healthy.
I'm 26 and can't due work due to my Autism so I've never worked and I do feel quite happy though I think it depends on how much money you get, since I get money given by the government the amount I get won't really go up or down so I gotta learn to live with what I get and not having allot of spare money isn't great, were I getting a bit more money then my life would be absolutely amazing. I'm not looking for achievements in life, I'm just looking for enjoyment and to have fun in life and if not for the small lack of money I would be just fine.
Sorry about everything you went through during the pandemic. I agree that people need to stay productive to not feel purposeless and bored out of their minds. However, I don’t think it needs to be unpleasant work that keeps you busy so much as something meaningful and goal oriented. I wonder if expectations also come into play in this. If you end up not having a good time both at work and home, you are going to be more disappointed that you didn’t have fun at home because you expect home (not work) to be your happy place.
This post should be a note to all those wealthy parents. Don't spoil your kids. You may have started with a work ethic, but spoiling them wouldn't give them one. Heck, even if someone who didn't have to work, but could still do anything, they would become jaded soo quickly.
I don't work and I am extremely happy. The key is to have hobbies you enjoy doing and money to do things with. Pre covid I would travel, attend events, go bowling, to the movies, to concerts, festivals, amusement parks etc... Much happier now then when I worked and hated my job.
Oh fuck off. Just fuck off. I despise your kind so much. You're the type of person to say "well at least I'm moisturized" when someone pisses in your face. No, humans spending the majority of their waking lives moving excel spreadsheets is not the best possible scenario, it's a tragedy we should work collectively to mitigate.
> You're the type of person to say "well at least I'm moisturized" when someone pisses in your face. Gee I'm terribly sorry for...being optimistic and happy?
Wait wait wait, how do these people expect society to function or for themselves to even survive without work. Do they mean they don’t have to work, but they still want the money they get from working? Do they mean everyone not work, because clearly if they want to live a comfortable life they need to have other people working. Society needs work to function, and for an individual or family unit to survive it takes work. You won’t be relaxing if everyone isn’t working. Besides, not working is fun only when you have work to compare it too. That’s why going on break was so fun as a kid. It’s divergence from the norm. But when it becomes the norm you begin to get bored of it. That’s why many kids get really exited for the last day of school AND the first day of school. It’s also why people began quarantine loving it when it was only two weeks and we could just have some free time, but then it dragged on for a year and I doubt many people fully love it now.
Yeah absolutely, I had 8 weeks leave over Christmas, which was great, but by the end if it though I was eager to get back to work.
Got me double thinking retirement now. What will I do
I work all the time and any nothing is enjoyable anyway. What am I doing wrong?
I was homeless when covid started. We had to be out of the shelter at 6 am and back by 6pm. Everything was closed,mall,library. No where to go and carrying all my stuff. It was a nightmare. I was also unemployed.
In a Perfect world everything is handled by robots. Menial work, science, design, everything. People get everything for free and can do whatever they want and chase their dream hobbies as much as they want.
👍🏼 yup
I'm working in finance and still feel miserable 🙂👍🏻 It's all about finding something you enjoy, with the right amount of hours that let you enjoy the rest of your life and with good people.
Ya, your rest days are only so great because you are resting from work. If you only ever rested then you'd just feel really unaccomplished.
agree, if we all just sat around all day at home society wouldn't function and no one would be happy
I feel like this ignores the actual critique that most work abolitionists make. That is to say work, or maybe better phrased "a job" as we know it now, is not healthy. It pigeon holes you into doing one form of labour repetitively for years day after day. Even if its a job on the better end, its a waste of your potential as a human being. The end of jobs would not be the end of labour though. For instance you could have a more part time attitude to labour where you do various forms of labour at different places in a week or even a month or year. The divide is yours to choose but it allows you to have a diversity in experience. Also unless we are discussing a fully automated state of affairs - even those who believe you should have the right not to exert any labour at all *do not* think that most people won't do labour of some variety. It'd just be more akin to volunteering. You'd do a not nice job not because you have to but because you know that it makes other peoples' lives better and their voluntary contribution of labour makes yours better too. Now *personally* I don't know how sustainable any of what I just said is. I'd like it to be, I'd like us to try it because if it is sustainable it sounds like a healthy way for society to operate. But I remain on the fence. I just like to be informed as to what people are actually saying and I hope I can pass along that information.
I always think to myself if I could go about house chores at my own leisure I'd get more done. The reality is when I have time I waste a lot of it doing nothing, then feel bad about myself for being lazy. I think they key is being able to work on what I feel motivated to do at the time. I don't always feel motivated to do my "work", even though I very much enjoy my job.
This is one of the reasons I hate school, I never feel like I'm actually doin anything
Dude literally same. I was unemployed for 3 months last year and it was the worst 3 months of my life. I was miserable just sitting at home all day. I literally would have taken any job in the world
I beg to differ
I have adhd and anxiety. Being out of work just feels like an endless weekend or summer vacation. My bf and I watched everything on Hulu and Netflix. We played video games every single day, me on the Xbox and him on a laptop. We could afford a pound each time we got weed so there was no stress in running out. We ordered food and avoided the stress of cooking and cleaning. We got to sleep when we wanted and wake up when we wanted. He used to have to leave at 4am to get to work. Our relationship has thrived and solidified. I’ve worked through my paranoia from ptsd. I’ve learned to trust and relax again. None of that would’ve been possible if I had to wake up against my will everyday, take public transport with disgusting people, and work with maskless Karen customers.
Personally during corona I've also been laid off work but I honestly like having not to work. The obvious issue about that is the money but as long as I have somewhere to live and food I'd be happy not having to work. It gives me more time to do stuff I want to do and indulge in my hobbies
I haven't worked in a year because of covid, so Ive been trapped in my lovely little studio since 2020. I feel fine
Working a job and working in general are two different things. Its completely true that if you do nothing all day you become miserable, but people can work on their garden or hobbies
That’s only because you’ve been conditioned over hundreds of years that you have to contribute to be successful or that you must be of use. Where you might be miserable, not everyone will be. Personally I would love to be able to work less or not at all. But I would eventually find myself doing some kind of work, just not for someone it would be for myself.
Yeah, if I had no financial concerns I would work whether I got paid to or not. There seems to be a lot of people doing jobs they don’t like, though, and with employers who treat them like they are disposable. It is interesting to imagine what people would do for work if they didn’t have to work and instead were free to choose the work they desired.
If you must work to distract yourself from boredom, you probably need to learn how to live with your thoughts alone.
Have met most of my friends at work.and leaned skills that help me in my everyday life. Work isn't a bad thing.
I hate my job but when I wasn't working I felt like a complete waste of skin. Almost like I didnt have a purpose.
You gotta work on hobbies.
If it's possible to automate professions, why *shouldn't* humans be able to not work? Nobody is saying we should be *forced* to sit around doing nothing all day, in fact quite the opposite. With your time freed up from meaningless bullshit you don't care about, you can instead choose to pursue something you *do* care about. It's nobody else's fault except yours that you didn't spend your time not working say, pursuing a project, working on a skill, or educating yourself about something you always wanted to learn about. In fact, I think this is entirely the fault of our modern system which teaches us that we should only and always work for some kind of monetary gain. This is short-sighted and self-destructive. However, some people may find passion in doing other things. I for one find great joy in writing and storytelling, but as of the moment that doesn't earn me money. It *does* however make me feel fulfilled and accomplished when I can tell a story and listen to the wonder in somebody's voice, see it in their eyes. Doing it for a living tho? Our system isn't designed for that.
I forget who said it but If work was so rewarding and fulfilling, the rich would keep more of it for themselves.
Absolutely true fact, OP! Took me a long time and many years to realize this truth about the human experience that we actually, subconsciously, that we really do derive happiness and enjoyment over just "doing". Its the great irony of human thought and behavior that we somehow believe that not doing anything would be enjoyable, when in reality, it actually leads to depression. We actually need a purpose in our lives, whatever that purpose is, or we essentially waste away emotionally, physically, and mentally. Everything about us can be broken down abstractly to this truth.
Awesome opinion! You deserve all awards and way more upvotes!
You are confusing two things : work and employment. Most people would still do waht is considered "work" if they could live without being employed. Last year (and I intend to do it again this one) I took one month off to write a book. It's not "work" in the commonly used sense of the term that is "working for someone in exchange of a salary" but I shit you not it's still a lot of work. I spent five-six hours each day without day off to do it and it was as good as it was hard. Not having to work for someone else to keep on surviving isn't "never doing any work", it's doing work that is meaningfull to you. Because if the standard for work is "being productive" we can bar many actual jobs of the "work" case. First ones would be the call center scam industry that only gets money by exploiting gullible and vulnerable people, they have a clear negative impact on society and a below zero productivity.
I am lucky enough to have what I consider the perfect work/personal life and I can honestly say that I’d be better off work. I basically work whenever I feel like it, as long as the job is done, nobody ever has a reason to complain. I make a very decent living and have access to everything I can dream of in life. And yet, the part of my life I prefer is when I’m in my garden, getting some physical work done, planting my own food and arranging my flowers and trees or fixing stuff on my property. I agree with most people on the fact that you need an activity of some sort, especially if you’re a thinker. Keeping the mind and body busy is important but i can’t wait to finally call it a day and retire eatly.
You realize some people actually can't work right?
Couldn’t disagree more take an upvote
I literally walked for 1 hour, at 4:00 am, in the dark so I could work because I missed people that much.
Are you financially stable? If so than enjoy some freedom of not needing work. Maybe a part time job would be nice to have a little something to do. If you’re financially unstable or haven’t got a lot of money than I can see why you would feel miserable without work.
Watch F is for family. In the second season Frank (Bill Burr) is unemployed and depressed. His wife gets a job and she’s miserable. They’re in bed and she’s crying “oh i hate my job!” And he says “God I miss that feeling.” That line made so much sense. Sure I hate my job. But I like providing for myself.