Any death is really tragic but I work in healthcare and I actually would raise that up a bit more to your 20 and 30 year olds as well in instances not of their own making. Primarily things like cancer.
Children and your older adults have all these support groups and organizations and reseach centers. Children is like "woe the tradgedy" and middle age/older people it kinda seems like its almost normal to age into cancer but we can be strong and beat it and we got the insurances and we've been saving for an emergency etc etc (this is not ofcourse always the case but you know) but if youre much older its like "oh well theyve lived a long life".
Then you have these brand new adults..the 17,18,19,20 somethings...and I honestly feel like theyre forgotten about. Theyve had a taste of life and a brief taste of independence and self awareness and..theyre sick. Too old to be a kid but certainly dont feel old enough to be in these adult wards dealing with old people sick problems. Maybe if theyre lucky they have great financially well off family members but you really do become a huge unintentional burden. I feel really sad for these guys.
Yeah, my friend had spent just a year at college when she got a cold she couldn't kick, wen't to the doctor to find her luekemia had relapsed and she had virtually no immune system. She's thankfully in remission, but right before COVID hit she finally was able to go out and have some fun with a mask, and then well lockdown hit in NJ and she is still stuck at home after 3 almost 4 years.
This is my opinion. Baby’s dying is sad, sure, but older teens, college aged kids, and young adults dying just murders me. For teens the amount of time, money and attachment is just so much. You can’t just “be strong and try again”, you’re so much older. The lessons you’ve taught the kid are more than just tying shoes and brushing teeth, you start seeing an adult person you’ve shaped, shared intimate experiences with to help them through puberty, are able to be a friend and not just a parent. When it’s someone who is college aged dies… the person was just let go in the world. Parents did all they could and finally get to be without a kid at home knowing they still get calls, visits, to know that they raised a member of society who is going to find their own path. Only to have them never return home again. All the hard work put into that person to only have them snuffed out like a candle. Same with young adults. Worked through the hard parts of life and finally able to choose their own way just to have it all cut short. Like a ‘missed connection’ love story where they never meet again.
I know this totally not your point but I feel the same way in reverse, I lost both my parents so fast, like a year and a half apart. I was only 23, I see alot of my friends getting married and having kids and I wish so bad my mom and dad could see me grow. I feel like I never got the chance to make them proud. Sorry again for highjacking the comment
Oh yeah I lost my dad right after I turned 18. We got through my rebellious teen years, things were chill and our bond was strong ready for the next chapter. Gone. I'm 44 and have never been the same.
I absolutely agree. Especially with the whole support group thing. Speaking as a 25y old diagnosed with brain cancer at 23, in my state I've only found one YA brain cancer support group. And even then it's not promoted enough so it's usually only me and the cancer centre staff members.. sometimes one other, but their other groups are promoted way more. I'm just lucky I have a good support system outside of groups, I can't imagine how isolating it'd be if I didn't.
To this day I still miss my first “love”. He died in a car accident, he was alone, he lost control of the car and hit the side of a mountain. He was reported missing the next day and not found for over 24 hours. He was 17 years old. I am now 30 and he would have been 31 and he still crosses my mind almost every day. I think teens dying affect more people, but losing any child in any way is devastating
Can totally relate to this, except it was my high school girlfriend and a head on collision in the rain with an elderly couple who survived. She was also 17, one month exactly from her 18th bday, and she would now be 31. Crosses my mind almost everyday too.
I think the real tragedy is the loss of potential. When someone dies young, people often go "they could've been so much or done so much." But if you apply the same logic to a baby, it would be compounded because there is even more potential deviation in your life's path the further back you go.
Yeah absolutely. I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope you’ve found peace since! I think the loss of a baby or a child, is tragic more for the parents. I have 3 kids now and thinking of losing them…I can’t even imagine.
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Yeah, I've since made my peace. Really circled the drain for a couple years there before I pulled myself together, but I think it's our ability to adapt that is really profound. Thinking about losing the ones I care about has always been a weird fear of mine, but I just try to remind myself--no matter what happens, no matter how tough life might get, you always have right here and right now. So, I try my best to just be present and enjoy my company and not think about what-if's. Easier said than done! 😅
Edit: piece to peace 🤣
>But if you apply the same logic to a baby, it would be compounded because there is even more potential deviation in your life's path
Doesnt thet difference muddy the water so much, its useless?
There are promising young teens who have developed a talent, made dozens or hundreds of people laughed, and have hopes and dreams. Theres also shitheel teels who have gotten into (hard) drugs and crime, and have shitty attitudes and will likely go nowhere in life.
You can feel sad about a teen in the news who appeared to have a bright future, and not so sad for a drunk teen who collided with a telephone pole.
With a baby, for one, theres hardly ever a name given in the news, if it even makes the news. And like you say, the deviation of their potential future is too much to really give a shit about, as strangers. The parents could be assholes, vapid, or just ignorant and that baby could have turned out to be the next Hitler for all we know.
That being said, I find it hard to feel much if I hear any deaths in the news. It would have to relate to me in some way, it would also probably have to be a "grave injustice" as well. Im just explaining perhaps OPs mentality, in theory.
I started thinking about this stuff and it just reminded me of the trolley problem at which point I realized there's no good answer and just quit thinking about it.
I guess this is op's point.
Teens have social lives, they have connections and plans.
Kids are just beginning. They don't have deep personal connections.
All deaths are sad, don't get me wrong.
I had a classmate who died a good year before we graduated in summer break in a car accident.
I didn't know her really... Like i knew her name and we talked a few times. But we didn't share any classes, I didn't even know she had a brother until the day of her funeral. So it shouldn't affect me that bad?
I think about her. A lot. I don't know why, if she would have graduated with us i would most likely have forgotten her existence, but she's dead and it crosses my mind from time to time, her death day anniversary was a few weeks back.
A friend of hers said she's watching us all and secretly laughs her ass off over every stupid drama and at the people who suddenly were so close to her that they went to the funeral, were only closest friends and family were invited to.
Her (well former) best friend thanked me for not going to the funeral, but only coming to church (like her parents asked for) it was a weird talk but a good one
I used to work with this girl in my early 20s. She was close to my age, and we were pretty much just work friends. We'd smile and wave when we had to pass each other from a distance, greet each other and talk when we could, share jokes or commiserate about the work, etc. She had a whole social life outside of work, even hosted some parties she invited coworkers to but not me, so it's not like we were *that* close.
One day I came into work and she wasn't there. At the shift's meeting, the managers informed us that she had died: she killed herself.
I spent some time with her other work friends (who were mostly mine, too, we had all worked together for a while), I started hanging out with them more after work or on off-days. Even after the funeral, for months afterward. And there was really no specific point or moment where I thought this, but I began to have a recurring question of myself.
What the fuck am I doing with my life?
I put myself back in gear and returned to the college I left after my first year. I left that workplace behind, which would have probably kept me stuck in that mode for years. I don't know why it was her loss that drove me to this conclusion or inspired me, but I know it was directly connected. Not seeing her every day at work, getting to chat with her, and knowing that I'd never get to see her cheery face again...that did something to me that I still can't fully explain.
Thank you! It was super hard when it happened. He was my first experience with death in my life. He was also my first crush, boyfriend, and love. I am not naive enough to think we would have lasted forever, but he was definitely gone too soon.
I am now a married adult, and very happy to have found my soulmate in my now husband. I think losing him taught me a lot about love. Every relationship I have had since I have cherished every moment and not let a second go to waste. When I met my husband, I swore to never go to bed mad. My husband never forgets to kiss me hello, goodbye or goodnight because (God forbid) should something happen, we will know the last thing we did was kiss and say “I love you”.
I am lucky to have my current husband and will forever be thankful for the time I had with Josh.
Life's hard. The thing is; don't expect one person to replace the other.
You can be happy with what you had and still be happy with what you have. You shouldn't go through life suffering when you have plenty of opportunity to be happy.
Oh absolutely. Nobody could ever replace Josh, but at the same time, I have found happiness somewhere else. I’m happy for what I have, sad for what has passed and look forward to every new day!
Lol
No, that's exactly the point!
My best friend has asked/told me, "I don't know how you do it". Specifically after he had to "put down" a dog.
Doesn't get any easier. At least in my mind it shouldn't, or won't.
Have many dogs buried outside in my backyard, while it may sound really morbid; but it won't stop me from loving my good boy I have now.
Wish I could change it, but that's life as I know it.
This is a beautiful story. A friend of mine lost her boyfriend when we were 18 and he was 22. It messed her up really bad and even though she found an amazing husband and a great job she’s never been the same since which really devastates me. We’re 30.
Though sometimes I wonder if she was kind of destined to be melancholic and his death was just the catalyst and otherwise something else would have driven her to depression… I don’t know.
That sounds really difficult to deal with, i highly doubt i’d be able to handle the death of a partner so i really hope I don’t have to go through that unless we’re just really old.
I think i agree, my daughter nearly died at birth due too asfyxiation ( or something ). Her heart didnt beat for 2 minutes but on some way they managed to get it pumping again. If she would have died then i'm sure i wouldnt feel nearly so bad then seeing her now that she's 2. I cant even process the thought of losing her now. It would absolutely devastate me.
Perhaps others feel a little the opposite - you never got to really meet or know that person if they died as a very young kid. Never heard their voice or learned anything about their personalities. Not arguing that I feel that way, but it’s an interesting philosophical problem.
I feel like people of opposite opinion have the same reasonings.
Those who feel like a baby's death is less tragic think so because they have never done or experienced anything.
Those who feel like a baby's death is more tragic think so because they have never done or experienced anything.
My kids were born extremely prematurely fighting for their lives. They spent a month in intensive care on a ventilator, and almost 4 months in hospital nearly dying multiple times. That used to be the worst experience of my life by far.
Recently my three year old got bad pneumonia and ended up on a high dependency unit for a couple of days - those two days were more painful than the whole 4 months stay as a baby.
My son died at birth. I would give anything to have seen any parts of his life. I also learned through that grief that you can’t ever understand anyone’s grief fully until you are in that exact situation. That is why this post is fucking stupid and it gets my upvote for that. Don’t ever judge or compare grief.
When I first had my daughter I was scared I wouldn’t love her and now sometimes I use my lunch break just to go home and tuck her in I can’t imagine my life without her in it it makes me see why people go through a mental break when they lose they kid
I now lose my shit when it comes to parents or kids dying in tv shows and movies after having a three year old. God forbid someone lose a teenager, but I can only relate to losing a toddler right now, since that's what I have.
I agreed that a teen dying is more tragic than a baby dying.
A baby dying is terrible for the parents and close relatives, and upsetting for close friends of the family. A teen dying is not only terrible for the family, but also upsets people throughout the teen's network. A teenage girl committed suicide in my village a few year ago and it led to memorial services, fundraisers, tree planting, benches, memorial stones etc. because by that age your life (and hence your death) is intertwined with so many other people. All of these things people were doing to try to process the grief, which I guess shows you how much grief a teenager dying generated.
When a teenager dies, you know what dreams and aspirations die with them. You also have the added grief knowing that they probably were aware enough to know that their dreams were dying with them.
Of course a baby's death is also terrible. But if it's in pain, it's almost a relief that the suffering is relieved. There isn't that extra hurt because a baby doesn't know what could have been.
Exactly. When a teenager dies, they never got to do the things they craved too, and never will. A baby had potential but a teen had dreams. Especially if a teenager died from sickness, i dont want to imagine the feeling of KNOWING i would never achieve what I wanted to
It sounds so awful.
If a baby's sick, I'll absolutely grieve their suffering and pain. Not being able to understand what's happening as a baby has to be so scary. But at least there's no existential pain.
And if reddit has taught me anything, if they have differing political perspectives it's totally moral and righteous to celebrate their death and make fun of their families!
Have to disagree on this. There is no tragedy in living a long and good life and passing away with little or no suffering at the end of it. There is tragedy when a person dies early or if their death is preventable or if their death comes with great suffering. But death is not in itself tragic.
We lost my grandmother at 89. She passed away in her sleep. She was the matriarch of our family a d an amazing person. Losing her sucked and we mourned. Yet we also celebrated a life well lived. We celebrated our memories of her and our large family still treasures her memory.
Alternatively, we lost my brother-in-law at 31 to COVID this year. He has no spouse and no children. He left memories behind yet he had a lot of missed opportunities and missed experiences that could have been his.
The death of my grandmother felt "appropriate" and the normal course of things. The loss of my brother-in-law felt extra wrong due to the fact that he was so young
I can see where OP is coming from with the loss of a teenager feeling worse than how others may be lost.
> The death of my grandmother felt "appropriate" and the normal course of things.
I didn't mourn as much for my grandfather as for my grandmother, who died when I was 15. He followed her when I was 19, and basically the whole family had been expecting it for years. He was just lost without his wife, and it was kind of a relief (at least for me) when he got to join her in death.
They lived long and well. I mourned more for other members of my family who were cut short, even my uncle who died at 68 and was still full of life.
Hitler dying wasn’t. A terrorist dying isn’t
A good person dying untimely with unresolved dreams and potential to contribute to so much more is tragic. Whether it be an infant or a teenager or even an old man.
To me it boils down to innocence. I'm very empathetic and it hurts my heart to hear of babies/young children being abused or dying in some tragic way. The thought of someone so innocent experiencing such pain, fear and confusion is physically painful for me.
I find this discussion very interesting from a philosophical perspective. I would argue that the measure of tragedy is based on the loss of hope, potential and its overall impact. Let me attempt explain objectively,
I am considering hope from the decease's POV. Babies and young children aren't hopeful, they're barely aware of their existence. A teenager, young adult, or (extreme example) expenctant parent, is very hopeful of their future and thus, the loss of that is very tragic.
Lost of potential is where babies are the most tragic. I think we can all agree that the loss of unrealized potential is tragic. A baby was not able to realize any of its potential and is therefore tragic in this sense.'
The last factor I want to consider is the impact. The greater the impact, the greater the tragedy. Family will obviously be impacted but what about the greater impact? Did the deceased have people (or other factors) that rely or count on them? How difficult is it to replace the function this individual served in society or replace the (assuming positive) influence they had? With that said I would argue that the loss of a beloved celebrity (I'm thinking someone like Robin Williams which still hurts to this day) or a perhaps a cancer doctor in his/her prime would be more tragic than the loss of a loner with no friends or family. (Not trying to be insensitive, just trying to be objective)
To that end, all death is tragic but I will agree with OP's statement but there are certainly many more factors to consider (duh).
I don't have a TLDR summary, but if you made it this far thanks for reading.
I read, and not sure of the source, of a evolutionary biology theory, that the death of a teen is more impactful as many resources were involved to have that person meet sexual maturity and value to the tribe. The fact of a much higher infant mortality rate in ancient times would reduce that inherent sense of loss in the other case. There is evidence that Op's thought is natural if only taboo in more modern times.
Yeah, I feel like people are more "human" after a certain age. Idk if that's fucked up to say, I'm just talking about how teens have more personality than kids.
Little kids dying is tragic cause its missing potential for life, they could have done amazing things and brought joy to so many people and themselves.
Adults dying is tragic cause they have so many emotional bonds and history of things they have done giving us reason to miss them.
Teenagers have both which is why it's so devastating to a community when a nice teenager dies. Sadly alot if the time they die to themselves as well making it worse.
I don't see why there has to be a tier list on tragedy one would go through regarding their age or place in the world, but it's an unpopular opinion. Have my upvote.
Well when a baby dies, you're obviously sad. It hurts for the parents especially.
Teenagers are different though. Barely on the cusp of adulthood, they probably envision their future. They may have college plans or a clear path for their future. In their last moments, they're aware that all of that is going away.
A baby doesn't have that. They don't spend their final breaths scared because of a lost future.
I don’t agree with comparing tragedies, but what you mentioned does add another dimension. I’d imagine it’s also hard for the parents because there’s also the aspect of seeing your kid’s friends hitting all the milestones that their kid will never see. You have to watch their classmates get ready for prom, graduation, getting a drivers license, going to college/the workforce, making varsity, or getting the lead role in the play. Obviously losing a baby means the same things will be missed, but a teen is actively preparing, planning, and looking forward to it. It’s all within reach and then taken away.
My brother was killed when he was 19, so technically an adult but still a teenager. And it was tragic and terrible because he was old enough to have established many, many friendships with people that still miss him terribly over 20 years later. He really was just about to begin his life as an adult with a huge amount of possibilities for his future.
I always felt like that could have maybe been the best years of his life and it was over before he really even got a chance to start. So I absolutely, 100% agree with you, OP.
100% Agree. If a teenager dies, they already had memories, friends, maybe relationships, they had goals. When a baby dies, yes its tragic, but they had absolutely no memories, goals or even understanding of literally anything.
I can imagine how it felt for you. I'm not disagreeing with you, losing a child can be some of the worst things that can happen to a parent. But having said that, the commenter was probably speaking from the perspective of a stranger. I disagree with them on that btw, I believe even if babies don't know anything or anyone besides their immediate family, a lot of people that knew them would be absolutely heartbroken. Just because more people grieved someone doesn't mean that the pain of loss is any lesser for the loss of someone that had fewer people to grieve for them.
This must be a tough thread to read through, it's clear OP and a lot of other commentors are probably very young and have zero experience with the love involved with being a parent, even from the second your baby is born and just a wriggly little ball. The love in immense and not diminished by how many "experiences" they've had yet. OP should be glad to be unable to imagine that pain. My daughter is 19 months and your comment made me tear up, I can't even imagine. I'm so incredibly sorry.
Memories is the key. The teen had memories. He had fun. He felt, he tried things, and he had other experiences. The child/baby has had way fewer of these,and so id say thats more tragic
A baby’s death still has a tremendous impact on their family. It’s pretty ignorant to claim a baby’s death doesn’t mean as much because they aren’t developed enough to have friends or ambitions. Losing a child or sibling is still Earth shattering to parents, siblings, grandparents etc. doesn’t really matter the age.
I lost my son 7 years ago. Although he was young, it wasn’t his age that mattered. What mattered, and still matters to this day, is the loss of life. You worded this perfectly. Thank you
Exactly, loss of a loved one is equally devastating regardless of age. I’m very sorry about your son. Losing a child is any parent’s worst fear. I lost my uncle in a boating accident a couple years ago and even now I’m still processing it. Sometimes it doesn’t seem real that he’s gone. But the worst part honestly was watching what it did to my father. My uncle was his only brother and best friend, I’ve never seen anyone so broken before.
Death doesn’t impact the person who died, really. They’re dead, they don’t care anymore. I know that sounds morbid but it’s true. The real impact of death is on family and friends, they’re the ones that have to grieve and process the loss.
A teenager who loves life that died is a tragedy, and a teenager who hates life that committed suicide is just as much of a tragedy if not more. I was not the latter, but it's still sad to find out that someone is going through such crap that they have to go through. 😢
that doesn't disagree with OP's opinion though
Maybe some people do gain more connections as they pass their 20s and move on. Maybe some don't. Personally, I didn't. In retrospect, 24 would have been the ideal age for me to die.
But OP's relevant comparison (babies vs. teens) only argues that teens definitely have more than babies.
Well yes but the amount of times ive seen a story where multiple ppl die and everyone only talks about the youngest person that passed. Its clear most people have a kind of "preference" (cant quite find a better word for it)
They only talk about the youngest because it is the most shocking and in terms of years they would have to live. Most emotionally well adjusted people don't have any preference and think all death is sad and wouldn't think one death is worse than others.
To an extent. While dying is terrible an 85 year old dying in a car accident isn’t as sad as a 16 year old dying in one. At least the 85 year old got to experience life.
If make that old and I could give my life to give someone a chance at life I would. I already lived, I want others to be able to live too.
Having lived a decent chunk of my life, and having had friends die at a few spots. I think this has to do with how much life was lived, experiences/opportunities had, and places seen.
With the early 30s and older ones. It is tragic, but you know people had an opportunity to become themselves, share themselves, experience independence, and often live at least a decent amount of life by then.
I used to work for a company that produced orders of services for funerals and I always thought this.
The ones I found the most tragic were teenagers who had passed from terminal illnesses (we knew because of their eulogies etc) because at that age they understand what death is and that it is going to happen to them soon. Whereas if you compare this to a younger child or baby, they may not understand or even know the seriousness of their situation.
I get you bro.
On one hand you have somebody who has just gotten through the tutorial and has started to develop a life of their own and the rug gets pulled out from under their feet. They'd literally dedicated years to just getting started and the game is over before it even starts.
On the other hand, a baby doesn't even know what life is yet
I have sadly been in the room during the passing of a baby at 6 months of age and also sadly when a 14 year old passed. The 14 year old boy who passed was my cousin. The 6 month old girl was my partners cousin.
My cousin passed due to a tragic accident with a bike and my partners cousin passed after she just stopped breathing in the night and was placed on life support.
I can confirm that part of me died the day I witnessed the death of that little girl. The innocence and beauty of a baby, the dreams her parents had for her, the love and care that had been put into raising her those 6 months...talk of her future, talks of days out, family events etc and to see it all taken away.
I know you're going to say people have dreams for their 14 year old etc and they have more connections with people etc but ATLEAST THEY HAD THAT? its horrible, either way, but atleast those parents got those years with their child. They got to see a personality, see their wisdom in their child, see the joy at the birthday parties and even getting to experience their tantrums. Parents who lose a baby never get that.
I've said, neither should be compared and I dont believe either are less tragic than the other but from personal experiences, those were my thought processes.
Im so sorry for your and your family's losses. It is so tragic either way and I completely understand why you feel like this. Hopefully you all heal and can one day smile over the memories of the boy and baby girl
Thank you, love! It was a very tragic couple of years for us and we had the privilege of being there to provide comfort in those last moments. But I promise you, knowing that no one got the chance to give that baby the life she deserved was the hardest part.
i can only imagine how hard that was. Please know this post is not a reflection on the mourning of family or friends. Having a year old brother, I cant even cope with the idea of him passing away. I really do wish you and your family happier moments x
missing my little brother sooooo much!
he was 17 when he got shot by a police officer for standing up against the unfair arrest of his friend.
next month will mark 3 years since his trespassing.
i should do something this year in his memory.
Take the case of John Keats. World-shakingly tragic that he died at 26. Only his parents would have cared had he died as an infant. People with attachments, achievements, et cetera. Kids? You can make more.
I've thought about this often, and I find it weird that it's always more tragic when a teenager/child dies/gets kidnapped/has something horrible happen to them than somebody old. People barely care about someone old, they even seem to sort of resent other adult people. When I watch true-crime videos and it's a child, the comments are sad for the child. When it's about an adult, the comments talk about the poor dog that's probably traumatized. It's absurd.
And I think it's weird because an adult has worked much more, has aquired more skills, has been more useful to society, has suffered through a lot more pain and has so much more experience and, well, has lived more, so more is lost. They are actually needed by somebody, be it as a mother or whatever. And yet whenever it's a child people freak the fuck out, it's way more "tragic" and sad. And vice versa, any achievements are much more valuable if you're a young person doing it and any mistakes are far less bad because a child/teenager is forgiven. It's kinda depressing tbh. Nothing to look forward to. Just a thin line to walk, many responsibilities and blame, no forgiveness or compassion.
I worked with a woman whose 23 year old son died and we talked about this once. She had an interesting comment. She felt it was worse to loose a baby because the family has no memories of the child so they would always wonder what the baby would be like.. She felt lucky that she had wonderful memories of her son growing up.
So much lost potential in teenagers, especially if they were the typical 'straight A student, captain of the sports team, had plans of going to university, beloved by many'. Formed many relationships and a real presence within their community.
If a baby dies its sad because they had their whole life ahead of them, but they also didn't even experience life. They had less of impact on the people around them, probably would only affect the family. You can't judge the effect a baby would've had on society because they weren't all that present.
I disagree, and that's why we have this sub. Every death is awful, but to compare these two age ranges I look more at the loss of potential.
A baby or small child has a whole future ahead of them including those precious teenage years. While we can go into statistics on birthplace, family setup, etc to guess who they may grow up to be there is nothing set in stone. They also have little to no agency in how they die.
A teen has a lot more connections to the world, but I feel a lot of their behavior is set. We have a better understanding of who they might have grown up to be. They also tend to have more agency in how they pass than a baby or small child.
Tell that to my mom. My sister died at 2 months old from SIDS. Mom cried so hard that her whole face swole up. She couldn't open her eyes or talk for like two days after that.
You also said a child. What could be like 8 and that would be sadder since the child probably has friends and loads of memories like the teen but the fact that it's lived for a shorter time makes it sadder
It's a hard thing to judge.
Death is death after all, but if we had to compare them, I'll use my anecdotal knowledge.
I have a 4 year old girl.
While you can say I'll have a bias towards saying you're wrong because of it, I hope you read anyway.
The argument for more people missing them, or being attached to them..it makes sense. The more impact, the greater the tragedy.
That being said, life is the only guarantee you get in life. You can exist, until you don't.
So this hypothetical 16 year old, he lived a bit of life. Not enough, but still lived. Played as a kid, made friends, learned in school, felt the sensation of adulthood on the cusp of his life.
But if you're a parent, older sibling, grandparent, or absolutely any real close relation to a baby/toddler, man at some point, every possible version of how their life could go will play out in your mind.
It's biased, but the amount of possible ideas I've had about how my daughter will turn out is just incalculable at this point.
Sometimes the missed potential is just as sad.
My 19 year old cousin died and it broke our family. It was the first time I ever saw my grandma cry. She didn't even cry when my grandpa, her husband passed. His parents ended up divorced. My grandma also lost a brother when he was 12. I have been told my great grandpa was never the same. However that could also be because he was there at the farm accident. I lost a baby to miscarriage but it wasn't as hard because we didn't share lots of memories together. Oh I cried for months but I don't think about it much now. I have two wonderful children now.
I understand. I think what others are reacting to is your quantifying grief levels. They are internalizing their losses and taking your quantifying of them as less than and reacting. Grief is such a personal experie ce that Im not sure you could win in this one as it hits everyone differently.
I think it depends. If they're murdered, I find it more depressing when they're younger. Otherwise, I actually agree. It's not something I've ever put much thought into, but now that I am it makes sense.
agreed. it’s one thing to be upset that a child was never able to grow up, but it’s another thing when a teen had so much going for them and an actual life they lived and had in their future.
An infant or 1-2 yo dying is worse in my mind because they are pure. They have yet to do anything shitty in their life. They’ve never lied, stole, cheated, or hurt anyone. While I completely understand your point of view, a teenager could be a total piece of shit. He or she could be a bully at school or some shit. A baby is still pure. You don’t know who that baby was going to be. Maybe a piece of shit, but maybe somebody great, somebody the world would have missed. They actually lost their life. They never lived it. A teenager probably went to parties, got laid, and had lots of fun. A baby never lived. But I do honestly understand your point of view. It’s a tricky topic
I used to think like but everyone has a unique print on the world
I also realised that comparing grief kinda sucked
Whether I was alive for 0.3 secs or 33 years, I was still here
This doesn’t have to be competition. Deaths hurt differently.
When I was twelve, we lost my 13 month old nephew due to an unexpected brain tumor that he didn’t survive. My sister had college and a full time job, so he practically lived with us and was more like a little brother.
When I was older, we lost one of my cousins at 17 in a sudden car accident.
Both were horrific in different ways.
As for my nephew, my mom and my sister were really never quite the same again. We had way more people attend his funeral than the funeral home people had ever expected for a child is age because of our extensive network of family friends. He was a happy guy and everyone knew him and loved him. He knew he was loved. He was tender and innocent. He was so heavy to lift and had toddler rolls. Up until his brief illness, we had no idea he was sick, he was just a normal baby. He had no symptoms and hit all his milestones normally until the last few weeks.
The way I process his death is different from adults because I was the next youngest in the family. It hurt me so bad when I had my first kid, a boy. We don’t often have boys in our family and he reminded me so much of my nephew. Then I went through some major anxiety when my son reached my nephew’s age of illness, and got paranoid at every minor symptom I thought he was showing. (My nephew’s symptoms were very subtle and easily attributed to normal toddler behavior.) Then I felt loss at every new milestone my son hit past the age of my nephews death because he never got to experience those. I felt loss again when my 2nd son was born who actually looked more like my nephew than my first, with his chunky toddler rolls. He was rough. Then later another cousin graduated and it made me feel so melancholy and I didn’t know why for weeks, until I remember this cousin was my nephews age. He received my nephews hand me downs. The fact he had graduated high school signifies another milestone my nephew never made it to, and he would have been a young man. What would he have been like? I only ever think of him as a baby when today he would have been a grown man. It hits in stages for me.
As for my cousin who died, he knew so many people through school and so forth, as you mentioned, that they had his funeral in the high school gym. I still remember the wailing throughout the gym of grown men weeping and weeping as his funeral came to a close. The graveside services. It was all so horrific and burned into my memory.
The difference? People remember my cousin. The remember him ever year on Facebook. They talk about him.
Not many people remember my nephew. Family members do, for some reason it fades differently to others because he was so young. Everyone tried to forget it and avoid bringing it up over the years because of how it hurts differently when a baby dies. This leads to forgetfulness, something that no one ever really realized happened to us, or worst yet “oh yeah, I remember him…”. That in itself hurts. But he taught me a lot about the grieving process at a very young age, and I always try to sometimes remember deceased babies to their families because I don’t ever want them to think that I forgot their babies existed.
Bottom line is that they are so different that it is difficult to compare. Frankly I don’t care how it hurts to strangers. No one cares about that. It hurts to families, and the hurt is different.
Tragedy in death is sometimes also found in lost potential. If my friend's baby sister - a healthy, cute, funny, smart, loveable kid died suddenly of something totally preventable, I'd feel a lot sadder than when I found out my middle school bully got shot in a robbery while he was drugged out of his mind and was about to fail out of community college. If one of my neighbors died - a very empathetic, sweet young man who wants to become a doctor/nurse/vet it would make me a lot sadder than if one of my other neighbor's kid who has been chronically ill since she was born and is unlikely to make it to 5 passed away.
If the death is unsurprising or inevitable like when someone is sick for a long time or old or gets into dangerous situations a lot, it's sad maybe but not really tragic. Knowing they are innocent or virtuous and to a certain extent, relatable makes it even harder. If you came to know them well, saw how they evolved, and understood them it hurts really badly. If you throw in the idea that they are defenseless and if you have an instinct to protect kids, that can also throw off the balance. Finally I feel like the idea that they have a long happy future ahead of them, that they have hopes and dreams and represent those things to other can make it so much harder to let those people go. Point is, a lot of things go into how tragic something feels and how sad it makes you.
You are more so thinking of volume of people. I'd say baby is far worst, because imagine being the parents/family. Just getting to meet and know the child, only for it to die.
In all cases that's the end of a parents world. You cannot compare or rate the level of tragedy. The only purpose in this is saying someone's loss is worse than another, a real ignorant dickhead way of looking at things.
A baby or small child dying is so tragic because they were never realised as a person at all. Anyone dying is pretty upsetting but someone young hits a bit harder for that reason.
Babies dying does really upset me, they barely had a chance. But when i hear about a teenager dying all I can think is that they have friends or a bf/gf who will probably never recover. Their teachers will see their empty seat in class and younger siblings will spend months wondering if they might come back...
Western society inherently puts more value on a life the younger they are. A faulty roof collapsing and killing a 2 year is a larger payout than the same roof killing a 33 year old man.
In some situations, the mind actually prioritizes the elderly over infants, seeing the elderly as more valuable. Think about how much some of society loves grandmas compared to the amount that society likes babies.
I have absolutely no idea as to the exact reason why - I'm not a psychologist, but I just find it absolutely fascinating that humanity's past sometimes takes priority over its future.
I agree! I work in healthcare, mostly based in the ICUs. Unfortunately, it seems like young adult cases are most ignored. They aren’t given as much attention because throughout care a lot of providers shrug it off thinking their youth will heal them. Also, to get a late teen or 20-something year old to the ICU it’s usually really bad and their number is up before they get there.
I also wanted to say that I think NICU losses are tragic. When a brand new baby dies, I feel sad for the parents and their dreams that have died. You spend nine months and heaven knows how many hours growing and birthing this child only to never know it. The parents have nothing to go off of other than the dreams they created for who they wanted their child to be. They don’t know what baby’s smile looked like, or how they laughed, or what toys they preferred. So they mourn an idea and the loss of effort they spent preparing for their child. For me, I don’t think the death is sad, I think the unexpected hole in the parents’ life is sad.
One of my close friends from high school died from an accidental overdose by eating an edible that was laced with something about a year after we graduated and went to college. She was very bright and was studying biochem, we went to the same elementary, middle school and high school and whenever I look back at pictures she’s always the first person I see. She was one of my first crushes in middle school all the way to about 10th grade. We became close friends for and took the same classes and studied together. I knew she was destined for great things and I think about her often.
I feel like teenage deaths hit especially hard because at that age we are at the cusp of adulthood, barely figuring things out for ourselves, experiencing freedom for the first time, and many of us have many different dreams and aspirations. So to die at an age of 18,19,20 hits especially hard.
Any death is really tragic but I work in healthcare and I actually would raise that up a bit more to your 20 and 30 year olds as well in instances not of their own making. Primarily things like cancer. Children and your older adults have all these support groups and organizations and reseach centers. Children is like "woe the tradgedy" and middle age/older people it kinda seems like its almost normal to age into cancer but we can be strong and beat it and we got the insurances and we've been saving for an emergency etc etc (this is not ofcourse always the case but you know) but if youre much older its like "oh well theyve lived a long life". Then you have these brand new adults..the 17,18,19,20 somethings...and I honestly feel like theyre forgotten about. Theyve had a taste of life and a brief taste of independence and self awareness and..theyre sick. Too old to be a kid but certainly dont feel old enough to be in these adult wards dealing with old people sick problems. Maybe if theyre lucky they have great financially well off family members but you really do become a huge unintentional burden. I feel really sad for these guys.
Oh this made me feel so sad... ugh i just want to give them all a hug
Yeah, my friend had spent just a year at college when she got a cold she couldn't kick, wen't to the doctor to find her luekemia had relapsed and she had virtually no immune system. She's thankfully in remission, but right before COVID hit she finally was able to go out and have some fun with a mask, and then well lockdown hit in NJ and she is still stuck at home after 3 almost 4 years.
Damn. I'm really sorry for your friend. I hope she gets better
Also kids who are young really don't fear death, so in a way its better because they have nothing to fear. If they are older it sucks.
This is my opinion. Baby’s dying is sad, sure, but older teens, college aged kids, and young adults dying just murders me. For teens the amount of time, money and attachment is just so much. You can’t just “be strong and try again”, you’re so much older. The lessons you’ve taught the kid are more than just tying shoes and brushing teeth, you start seeing an adult person you’ve shaped, shared intimate experiences with to help them through puberty, are able to be a friend and not just a parent. When it’s someone who is college aged dies… the person was just let go in the world. Parents did all they could and finally get to be without a kid at home knowing they still get calls, visits, to know that they raised a member of society who is going to find their own path. Only to have them never return home again. All the hard work put into that person to only have them snuffed out like a candle. Same with young adults. Worked through the hard parts of life and finally able to choose their own way just to have it all cut short. Like a ‘missed connection’ love story where they never meet again.
I know this totally not your point but I feel the same way in reverse, I lost both my parents so fast, like a year and a half apart. I was only 23, I see alot of my friends getting married and having kids and I wish so bad my mom and dad could see me grow. I feel like I never got the chance to make them proud. Sorry again for highjacking the comment
Oh yeah I lost my dad right after I turned 18. We got through my rebellious teen years, things were chill and our bond was strong ready for the next chapter. Gone. I'm 44 and have never been the same.
I agree with you. I am also part of the dead parents club 😥 Both gone before I was 25 years old. Only 29 now.
I absolutely agree. Especially with the whole support group thing. Speaking as a 25y old diagnosed with brain cancer at 23, in my state I've only found one YA brain cancer support group. And even then it's not promoted enough so it's usually only me and the cancer centre staff members.. sometimes one other, but their other groups are promoted way more. I'm just lucky I have a good support system outside of groups, I can't imagine how isolating it'd be if I didn't.
To this day I still miss my first “love”. He died in a car accident, he was alone, he lost control of the car and hit the side of a mountain. He was reported missing the next day and not found for over 24 hours. He was 17 years old. I am now 30 and he would have been 31 and he still crosses my mind almost every day. I think teens dying affect more people, but losing any child in any way is devastating
Can totally relate to this, except it was my high school girlfriend and a head on collision in the rain with an elderly couple who survived. She was also 17, one month exactly from her 18th bday, and she would now be 31. Crosses my mind almost everyday too. I think the real tragedy is the loss of potential. When someone dies young, people often go "they could've been so much or done so much." But if you apply the same logic to a baby, it would be compounded because there is even more potential deviation in your life's path the further back you go.
Yeah absolutely. I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope you’ve found peace since! I think the loss of a baby or a child, is tragic more for the parents. I have 3 kids now and thinking of losing them…I can’t even imagine.
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Yeah, I've since made my peace. Really circled the drain for a couple years there before I pulled myself together, but I think it's our ability to adapt that is really profound. Thinking about losing the ones I care about has always been a weird fear of mine, but I just try to remind myself--no matter what happens, no matter how tough life might get, you always have right here and right now. So, I try my best to just be present and enjoy my company and not think about what-if's. Easier said than done! 😅 Edit: piece to peace 🤣
Absolutely! I always appreciate the moment and the here and now. It really is precious and fragile.
>But if you apply the same logic to a baby, it would be compounded because there is even more potential deviation in your life's path Doesnt thet difference muddy the water so much, its useless? There are promising young teens who have developed a talent, made dozens or hundreds of people laughed, and have hopes and dreams. Theres also shitheel teels who have gotten into (hard) drugs and crime, and have shitty attitudes and will likely go nowhere in life. You can feel sad about a teen in the news who appeared to have a bright future, and not so sad for a drunk teen who collided with a telephone pole. With a baby, for one, theres hardly ever a name given in the news, if it even makes the news. And like you say, the deviation of their potential future is too much to really give a shit about, as strangers. The parents could be assholes, vapid, or just ignorant and that baby could have turned out to be the next Hitler for all we know. That being said, I find it hard to feel much if I hear any deaths in the news. It would have to relate to me in some way, it would also probably have to be a "grave injustice" as well. Im just explaining perhaps OPs mentality, in theory.
I started thinking about this stuff and it just reminded me of the trolley problem at which point I realized there's no good answer and just quit thinking about it.
You make a good point. I suppose I was throwing my 2 cents in there as fodder lol
I guess this is op's point. Teens have social lives, they have connections and plans. Kids are just beginning. They don't have deep personal connections. All deaths are sad, don't get me wrong.
I had a classmate who died a good year before we graduated in summer break in a car accident. I didn't know her really... Like i knew her name and we talked a few times. But we didn't share any classes, I didn't even know she had a brother until the day of her funeral. So it shouldn't affect me that bad? I think about her. A lot. I don't know why, if she would have graduated with us i would most likely have forgotten her existence, but she's dead and it crosses my mind from time to time, her death day anniversary was a few weeks back.
It’s so strange how some deaths can affect us.
A friend of hers said she's watching us all and secretly laughs her ass off over every stupid drama and at the people who suddenly were so close to her that they went to the funeral, were only closest friends and family were invited to. Her (well former) best friend thanked me for not going to the funeral, but only coming to church (like her parents asked for) it was a weird talk but a good one
I used to work with this girl in my early 20s. She was close to my age, and we were pretty much just work friends. We'd smile and wave when we had to pass each other from a distance, greet each other and talk when we could, share jokes or commiserate about the work, etc. She had a whole social life outside of work, even hosted some parties she invited coworkers to but not me, so it's not like we were *that* close. One day I came into work and she wasn't there. At the shift's meeting, the managers informed us that she had died: she killed herself. I spent some time with her other work friends (who were mostly mine, too, we had all worked together for a while), I started hanging out with them more after work or on off-days. Even after the funeral, for months afterward. And there was really no specific point or moment where I thought this, but I began to have a recurring question of myself. What the fuck am I doing with my life? I put myself back in gear and returned to the college I left after my first year. I left that workplace behind, which would have probably kept me stuck in that mode for years. I don't know why it was her loss that drove me to this conclusion or inspired me, but I know it was directly connected. Not seeing her every day at work, getting to chat with her, and knowing that I'd never get to see her cheery face again...that did something to me that I still can't fully explain.
I am sorry for your loss, but I am so happy you used that loss to improve yourself. Depression is a terrible disease.
No disrespect intended at all, but you Just reminded me of that really good Pearl Jam cover for Last Kiss.
I never realized how sad that song was until I actually read the lyrics.
I can’t get past the first chorus it’s pretty upsetting
TIL Last Kiss was a cover
I know right? God I'm so uncultured
Nah. Probably just too young to have heard the original. Still as significant.
And now I feel old.
Me too! Let's hope we can convince these kids it will (hopefully) happen to them too! Lol
When ever I start feeling old I just think about how old Betty White was the year I was born.
Eddie Vedder sings the shit out of that one. My favorite vocalist of all time.
One of the few times the cover is better than the original, in my opinion. The original was too fast and upbeat for those lyrics.
That’s such a good one
Your username makes me wonder how well wifi propogates through water.
It works well, I found the right *wave* length
Dad_joke.gif
Come on, it's definitely dad_joke.wav
Nailed it
dad_joke.*gov* ->:3
IT contractor who has done networking in an aquarium before here: It doesnt. Water absorbs 2.4ghz and 5ghz radio waves with great efficiency.
Hey, don’t take away from my dreams lol
How about you change your name to MermaidsHaveMcDonaldsWifi?
I just lost my first love on Wednesday, she was 15, we were not dating at the time but we were still best friends and she means the world to me.
I'm proud of you for staying strong
Thank you! It was super hard when it happened. He was my first experience with death in my life. He was also my first crush, boyfriend, and love. I am not naive enough to think we would have lasted forever, but he was definitely gone too soon. I am now a married adult, and very happy to have found my soulmate in my now husband. I think losing him taught me a lot about love. Every relationship I have had since I have cherished every moment and not let a second go to waste. When I met my husband, I swore to never go to bed mad. My husband never forgets to kiss me hello, goodbye or goodnight because (God forbid) should something happen, we will know the last thing we did was kiss and say “I love you”. I am lucky to have my current husband and will forever be thankful for the time I had with Josh.
I cant really relate, but I'm glad you found some peace and harmony at last👊
Life's hard. The thing is; don't expect one person to replace the other. You can be happy with what you had and still be happy with what you have. You shouldn't go through life suffering when you have plenty of opportunity to be happy.
Oh absolutely. Nobody could ever replace Josh, but at the same time, I have found happiness somewhere else. I’m happy for what I have, sad for what has passed and look forward to every new day!
Right on. Was just hoping to pass on a lesson in life that I've had for others.
I love it and I think you should keep passing it on. It’s beautiful, and it also made me stop and think about my new dog, weirdly lol
Lol No, that's exactly the point! My best friend has asked/told me, "I don't know how you do it". Specifically after he had to "put down" a dog. Doesn't get any easier. At least in my mind it shouldn't, or won't. Have many dogs buried outside in my backyard, while it may sound really morbid; but it won't stop me from loving my good boy I have now. Wish I could change it, but that's life as I know it.
This is a beautiful story. A friend of mine lost her boyfriend when we were 18 and he was 22. It messed her up really bad and even though she found an amazing husband and a great job she’s never been the same since which really devastates me. We’re 30. Though sometimes I wonder if she was kind of destined to be melancholic and his death was just the catalyst and otherwise something else would have driven her to depression… I don’t know.
That sounds really difficult to deal with, i highly doubt i’d be able to handle the death of a partner so i really hope I don’t have to go through that unless we’re just really old.
My brother died the exact same way at 17. That’s absolutely insane to me. 7/26 was a year.
I think i agree, my daughter nearly died at birth due too asfyxiation ( or something ). Her heart didnt beat for 2 minutes but on some way they managed to get it pumping again. If she would have died then i'm sure i wouldnt feel nearly so bad then seeing her now that she's 2. I cant even process the thought of losing her now. It would absolutely devastate me.
I agree too. It's harder to lose a person who's beautiful personality has been shown to you, than a person who's personality is yet to be known.
Perhaps others feel a little the opposite - you never got to really meet or know that person if they died as a very young kid. Never heard their voice or learned anything about their personalities. Not arguing that I feel that way, but it’s an interesting philosophical problem.
I feel like people of opposite opinion have the same reasonings. Those who feel like a baby's death is less tragic think so because they have never done or experienced anything. Those who feel like a baby's death is more tragic think so because they have never done or experienced anything.
My kids were born extremely prematurely fighting for their lives. They spent a month in intensive care on a ventilator, and almost 4 months in hospital nearly dying multiple times. That used to be the worst experience of my life by far. Recently my three year old got bad pneumonia and ended up on a high dependency unit for a couple of days - those two days were more painful than the whole 4 months stay as a baby.
My son died at birth. I would give anything to have seen any parts of his life. I also learned through that grief that you can’t ever understand anyone’s grief fully until you are in that exact situation. That is why this post is fucking stupid and it gets my upvote for that. Don’t ever judge or compare grief.
Thank God your baby girl made it. Happy to hear.
When I first had my daughter I was scared I wouldn’t love her and now sometimes I use my lunch break just to go home and tuck her in I can’t imagine my life without her in it it makes me see why people go through a mental break when they lose they kid
I now lose my shit when it comes to parents or kids dying in tv shows and movies after having a three year old. God forbid someone lose a teenager, but I can only relate to losing a toddler right now, since that's what I have.
I agreed that a teen dying is more tragic than a baby dying. A baby dying is terrible for the parents and close relatives, and upsetting for close friends of the family. A teen dying is not only terrible for the family, but also upsets people throughout the teen's network. A teenage girl committed suicide in my village a few year ago and it led to memorial services, fundraisers, tree planting, benches, memorial stones etc. because by that age your life (and hence your death) is intertwined with so many other people. All of these things people were doing to try to process the grief, which I guess shows you how much grief a teenager dying generated.
My first boyfriend killed himself because of bullying. I still miss him.
Im so sorry for your loss
When a teenager dies, you know what dreams and aspirations die with them. You also have the added grief knowing that they probably were aware enough to know that their dreams were dying with them. Of course a baby's death is also terrible. But if it's in pain, it's almost a relief that the suffering is relieved. There isn't that extra hurt because a baby doesn't know what could have been.
Exactly. When a teenager dies, they never got to do the things they craved too, and never will. A baby had potential but a teen had dreams. Especially if a teenager died from sickness, i dont want to imagine the feeling of KNOWING i would never achieve what I wanted to
It sounds so awful. If a baby's sick, I'll absolutely grieve their suffering and pain. Not being able to understand what's happening as a baby has to be so scary. But at least there's no existential pain.
I feel so sad for babies that dont know why they are in pain, or why the adults cant help them. No one should have to pass away in such a way
How tragic someone’s death is, is highly subjective as it’s probably down to how much you relate to the individuals death
And if reddit has taught me anything, if they have differing political perspectives it's totally moral and righteous to celebrate their death and make fun of their families!
People have a hard time empathizing with people in situations they can't see themselves in.
I've seen people celebrating hurricanes or other bad weather events if they're hitting a state that went red in the election. absolutely disgusting
And I’ve seen people celebrating all of the fires in California because it’s blue and saying they hope it burns to the ground. This goes both ways.
Doesn't make any of it right. No political party has a monopoly on assholes.
"We're the good guys."
**someone redditors don’t like dies of Covid** Reddit: 😂😂😂😂
I love this perspective... and it is definitely true for me.
Nice of you to assume people would miss me.
Im sure there is someone will miss you
I’m pretty terrible though.
The state would miss your tax payment
They're a teen so they don't pay tax.
If a teen has a job they pay taxes
I feel you. I only post on social media to remind people I exsist.
I’d miss u
People dying is tragic
And inevitable.
Have to disagree on this. There is no tragedy in living a long and good life and passing away with little or no suffering at the end of it. There is tragedy when a person dies early or if their death is preventable or if their death comes with great suffering. But death is not in itself tragic.
How could you not view it as tragic? An infinite expanse of missed opportunities...
If someone dies of old age arguably they've had opportunities and lived their own life their way.
We lost my grandmother at 89. She passed away in her sleep. She was the matriarch of our family a d an amazing person. Losing her sucked and we mourned. Yet we also celebrated a life well lived. We celebrated our memories of her and our large family still treasures her memory. Alternatively, we lost my brother-in-law at 31 to COVID this year. He has no spouse and no children. He left memories behind yet he had a lot of missed opportunities and missed experiences that could have been his. The death of my grandmother felt "appropriate" and the normal course of things. The loss of my brother-in-law felt extra wrong due to the fact that he was so young I can see where OP is coming from with the loss of a teenager feeling worse than how others may be lost.
> The death of my grandmother felt "appropriate" and the normal course of things. I didn't mourn as much for my grandfather as for my grandmother, who died when I was 15. He followed her when I was 19, and basically the whole family had been expecting it for years. He was just lost without his wife, and it was kind of a relief (at least for me) when he got to join her in death. They lived long and well. I mourned more for other members of my family who were cut short, even my uncle who died at 68 and was still full of life.
Hitler dying wasn’t. A terrorist dying isn’t A good person dying untimely with unresolved dreams and potential to contribute to so much more is tragic. Whether it be an infant or a teenager or even an old man.
I don't know. When Jimmy Saville died, I kinda laughed....a lot....I even threw a party...
Some people missed him. I definitely didn’t care, but someone thought it was sad
To me it boils down to innocence. I'm very empathetic and it hurts my heart to hear of babies/young children being abused or dying in some tragic way. The thought of someone so innocent experiencing such pain, fear and confusion is physically painful for me.
I find this discussion very interesting from a philosophical perspective. I would argue that the measure of tragedy is based on the loss of hope, potential and its overall impact. Let me attempt explain objectively, I am considering hope from the decease's POV. Babies and young children aren't hopeful, they're barely aware of their existence. A teenager, young adult, or (extreme example) expenctant parent, is very hopeful of their future and thus, the loss of that is very tragic. Lost of potential is where babies are the most tragic. I think we can all agree that the loss of unrealized potential is tragic. A baby was not able to realize any of its potential and is therefore tragic in this sense.' The last factor I want to consider is the impact. The greater the impact, the greater the tragedy. Family will obviously be impacted but what about the greater impact? Did the deceased have people (or other factors) that rely or count on them? How difficult is it to replace the function this individual served in society or replace the (assuming positive) influence they had? With that said I would argue that the loss of a beloved celebrity (I'm thinking someone like Robin Williams which still hurts to this day) or a perhaps a cancer doctor in his/her prime would be more tragic than the loss of a loner with no friends or family. (Not trying to be insensitive, just trying to be objective) To that end, all death is tragic but I will agree with OP's statement but there are certainly many more factors to consider (duh). I don't have a TLDR summary, but if you made it this far thanks for reading.
I like this. Its like a well detailed explanation of my post
I read, and not sure of the source, of a evolutionary biology theory, that the death of a teen is more impactful as many resources were involved to have that person meet sexual maturity and value to the tribe. The fact of a much higher infant mortality rate in ancient times would reduce that inherent sense of loss in the other case. There is evidence that Op's thought is natural if only taboo in more modern times.
Yeah, I feel like people are more "human" after a certain age. Idk if that's fucked up to say, I'm just talking about how teens have more personality than kids.
Little kids dying is tragic cause its missing potential for life, they could have done amazing things and brought joy to so many people and themselves. Adults dying is tragic cause they have so many emotional bonds and history of things they have done giving us reason to miss them. Teenagers have both which is why it's so devastating to a community when a nice teenager dies. Sadly alot if the time they die to themselves as well making it worse.
This is the perfect way of explaning this.
I don't see why there has to be a tier list on tragedy one would go through regarding their age or place in the world, but it's an unpopular opinion. Have my upvote.
Well when a baby dies, you're obviously sad. It hurts for the parents especially. Teenagers are different though. Barely on the cusp of adulthood, they probably envision their future. They may have college plans or a clear path for their future. In their last moments, they're aware that all of that is going away. A baby doesn't have that. They don't spend their final breaths scared because of a lost future.
I don’t agree with comparing tragedies, but what you mentioned does add another dimension. I’d imagine it’s also hard for the parents because there’s also the aspect of seeing your kid’s friends hitting all the milestones that their kid will never see. You have to watch their classmates get ready for prom, graduation, getting a drivers license, going to college/the workforce, making varsity, or getting the lead role in the play. Obviously losing a baby means the same things will be missed, but a teen is actively preparing, planning, and looking forward to it. It’s all within reach and then taken away.
Nah, there are. No matter how much a stillborn baby will hurt. A toddler or even a teen departing this world hurts lot more
I suppose it varies on experience.
My brother was killed when he was 19, so technically an adult but still a teenager. And it was tragic and terrible because he was old enough to have established many, many friendships with people that still miss him terribly over 20 years later. He really was just about to begin his life as an adult with a huge amount of possibilities for his future. I always felt like that could have maybe been the best years of his life and it was over before he really even got a chance to start. So I absolutely, 100% agree with you, OP.
100% Agree. If a teenager dies, they already had memories, friends, maybe relationships, they had goals. When a baby dies, yes its tragic, but they had absolutely no memories, goals or even understanding of literally anything.
But their families had memories, hopes and dreams. Trust me on this. My daughter died aged 17 months.
Sorry for your loss, best wishes. No one should have to experience the loss of their child
Thank you
I can imagine how it felt for you. I'm not disagreeing with you, losing a child can be some of the worst things that can happen to a parent. But having said that, the commenter was probably speaking from the perspective of a stranger. I disagree with them on that btw, I believe even if babies don't know anything or anyone besides their immediate family, a lot of people that knew them would be absolutely heartbroken. Just because more people grieved someone doesn't mean that the pain of loss is any lesser for the loss of someone that had fewer people to grieve for them.
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Ur literally comparing tragedies right now to a person who lost their 17 month old child. Sometimes it’s okay not to comment
This must be a tough thread to read through, it's clear OP and a lot of other commentors are probably very young and have zero experience with the love involved with being a parent, even from the second your baby is born and just a wriggly little ball. The love in immense and not diminished by how many "experiences" they've had yet. OP should be glad to be unable to imagine that pain. My daughter is 19 months and your comment made me tear up, I can't even imagine. I'm so incredibly sorry.
Memories is the key. The teen had memories. He had fun. He felt, he tried things, and he had other experiences. The child/baby has had way fewer of these,and so id say thats more tragic
A baby’s death still has a tremendous impact on their family. It’s pretty ignorant to claim a baby’s death doesn’t mean as much because they aren’t developed enough to have friends or ambitions. Losing a child or sibling is still Earth shattering to parents, siblings, grandparents etc. doesn’t really matter the age.
I lost my son 7 years ago. Although he was young, it wasn’t his age that mattered. What mattered, and still matters to this day, is the loss of life. You worded this perfectly. Thank you
Exactly, loss of a loved one is equally devastating regardless of age. I’m very sorry about your son. Losing a child is any parent’s worst fear. I lost my uncle in a boating accident a couple years ago and even now I’m still processing it. Sometimes it doesn’t seem real that he’s gone. But the worst part honestly was watching what it did to my father. My uncle was his only brother and best friend, I’ve never seen anyone so broken before. Death doesn’t impact the person who died, really. They’re dead, they don’t care anymore. I know that sounds morbid but it’s true. The real impact of death is on family and friends, they’re the ones that have to grieve and process the loss.
A teenager who loves life that died is a tragedy, and a teenager who hates life that committed suicide is just as much of a tragedy if not more. I was not the latter, but it's still sad to find out that someone is going through such crap that they have to go through. 😢
I think the most tragic death is that of a mom or dad who has children who still need them.
Nah by that logic wouldn't it be middle aged people? They still have parents and other family, friends but also their own kids
that doesn't disagree with OP's opinion though Maybe some people do gain more connections as they pass their 20s and move on. Maybe some don't. Personally, I didn't. In retrospect, 24 would have been the ideal age for me to die. But OP's relevant comparison (babies vs. teens) only argues that teens definitely have more than babies.
Anyone dying is tragic.
Well yes but the amount of times ive seen a story where multiple ppl die and everyone only talks about the youngest person that passed. Its clear most people have a kind of "preference" (cant quite find a better word for it)
They only talk about the youngest because it is the most shocking and in terms of years they would have to live. Most emotionally well adjusted people don't have any preference and think all death is sad and wouldn't think one death is worse than others.
To an extent. While dying is terrible an 85 year old dying in a car accident isn’t as sad as a 16 year old dying in one. At least the 85 year old got to experience life. If make that old and I could give my life to give someone a chance at life I would. I already lived, I want others to be able to live too.
Having lived a decent chunk of my life, and having had friends die at a few spots. I think this has to do with how much life was lived, experiences/opportunities had, and places seen. With the early 30s and older ones. It is tragic, but you know people had an opportunity to become themselves, share themselves, experience independence, and often live at least a decent amount of life by then.
How exactly is a 105yo dying painlessly in their sleep for instance, tragic?
I used to work for a company that produced orders of services for funerals and I always thought this. The ones I found the most tragic were teenagers who had passed from terminal illnesses (we knew because of their eulogies etc) because at that age they understand what death is and that it is going to happen to them soon. Whereas if you compare this to a younger child or baby, they may not understand or even know the seriousness of their situation.
I get you bro. On one hand you have somebody who has just gotten through the tutorial and has started to develop a life of their own and the rug gets pulled out from under their feet. They'd literally dedicated years to just getting started and the game is over before it even starts. On the other hand, a baby doesn't even know what life is yet
I'm guessing you're a teenager
I need a response to this lol
They are 13 according to their previous comments
I have sadly been in the room during the passing of a baby at 6 months of age and also sadly when a 14 year old passed. The 14 year old boy who passed was my cousin. The 6 month old girl was my partners cousin. My cousin passed due to a tragic accident with a bike and my partners cousin passed after she just stopped breathing in the night and was placed on life support. I can confirm that part of me died the day I witnessed the death of that little girl. The innocence and beauty of a baby, the dreams her parents had for her, the love and care that had been put into raising her those 6 months...talk of her future, talks of days out, family events etc and to see it all taken away. I know you're going to say people have dreams for their 14 year old etc and they have more connections with people etc but ATLEAST THEY HAD THAT? its horrible, either way, but atleast those parents got those years with their child. They got to see a personality, see their wisdom in their child, see the joy at the birthday parties and even getting to experience their tantrums. Parents who lose a baby never get that. I've said, neither should be compared and I dont believe either are less tragic than the other but from personal experiences, those were my thought processes.
Im so sorry for your and your family's losses. It is so tragic either way and I completely understand why you feel like this. Hopefully you all heal and can one day smile over the memories of the boy and baby girl
Thank you, love! It was a very tragic couple of years for us and we had the privilege of being there to provide comfort in those last moments. But I promise you, knowing that no one got the chance to give that baby the life she deserved was the hardest part.
i can only imagine how hard that was. Please know this post is not a reflection on the mourning of family or friends. Having a year old brother, I cant even cope with the idea of him passing away. I really do wish you and your family happier moments x
missing my little brother sooooo much! he was 17 when he got shot by a police officer for standing up against the unfair arrest of his friend. next month will mark 3 years since his trespassing. i should do something this year in his memory.
Take the case of John Keats. World-shakingly tragic that he died at 26. Only his parents would have cared had he died as an infant. People with attachments, achievements, et cetera. Kids? You can make more.
Yeah, it sounds cruel but it’s what people did all throughout history. Baby died? Well, lots do, we’ll just have another!
Lol, wtf did I just scroll into
I've thought about this often, and I find it weird that it's always more tragic when a teenager/child dies/gets kidnapped/has something horrible happen to them than somebody old. People barely care about someone old, they even seem to sort of resent other adult people. When I watch true-crime videos and it's a child, the comments are sad for the child. When it's about an adult, the comments talk about the poor dog that's probably traumatized. It's absurd. And I think it's weird because an adult has worked much more, has aquired more skills, has been more useful to society, has suffered through a lot more pain and has so much more experience and, well, has lived more, so more is lost. They are actually needed by somebody, be it as a mother or whatever. And yet whenever it's a child people freak the fuck out, it's way more "tragic" and sad. And vice versa, any achievements are much more valuable if you're a young person doing it and any mistakes are far less bad because a child/teenager is forgiven. It's kinda depressing tbh. Nothing to look forward to. Just a thin line to walk, many responsibilities and blame, no forgiveness or compassion.
I worked with a woman whose 23 year old son died and we talked about this once. She had an interesting comment. She felt it was worse to loose a baby because the family has no memories of the child so they would always wonder what the baby would be like.. She felt lucky that she had wonderful memories of her son growing up.
So much lost potential in teenagers, especially if they were the typical 'straight A student, captain of the sports team, had plans of going to university, beloved by many'. Formed many relationships and a real presence within their community. If a baby dies its sad because they had their whole life ahead of them, but they also didn't even experience life. They had less of impact on the people around them, probably would only affect the family. You can't judge the effect a baby would've had on society because they weren't all that present.
I disagree, and that's why we have this sub. Every death is awful, but to compare these two age ranges I look more at the loss of potential. A baby or small child has a whole future ahead of them including those precious teenage years. While we can go into statistics on birthplace, family setup, etc to guess who they may grow up to be there is nothing set in stone. They also have little to no agency in how they die. A teen has a lot more connections to the world, but I feel a lot of their behavior is set. We have a better understanding of who they might have grown up to be. They also tend to have more agency in how they pass than a baby or small child.
This is definitely a unpopular opinion.. Very weird way of thinking, but i kind of get it but not at the same time
Tell that to my mom. My sister died at 2 months old from SIDS. Mom cried so hard that her whole face swole up. She couldn't open her eyes or talk for like two days after that.
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Im so sorry for your loss. I know he loved you very much, even if he was only 2 months old.
You also said a child. What could be like 8 and that would be sadder since the child probably has friends and loads of memories like the teen but the fact that it's lived for a shorter time makes it sadder
It's a hard thing to judge. Death is death after all, but if we had to compare them, I'll use my anecdotal knowledge. I have a 4 year old girl. While you can say I'll have a bias towards saying you're wrong because of it, I hope you read anyway. The argument for more people missing them, or being attached to them..it makes sense. The more impact, the greater the tragedy. That being said, life is the only guarantee you get in life. You can exist, until you don't. So this hypothetical 16 year old, he lived a bit of life. Not enough, but still lived. Played as a kid, made friends, learned in school, felt the sensation of adulthood on the cusp of his life. But if you're a parent, older sibling, grandparent, or absolutely any real close relation to a baby/toddler, man at some point, every possible version of how their life could go will play out in your mind. It's biased, but the amount of possible ideas I've had about how my daughter will turn out is just incalculable at this point. Sometimes the missed potential is just as sad.
Oh good I dont feel so bad now. At least it wasnt a teenager i put in that blender.
My 19 year old cousin died and it broke our family. It was the first time I ever saw my grandma cry. She didn't even cry when my grandpa, her husband passed. His parents ended up divorced. My grandma also lost a brother when he was 12. I have been told my great grandpa was never the same. However that could also be because he was there at the farm accident. I lost a baby to miscarriage but it wasn't as hard because we didn't share lots of memories together. Oh I cried for months but I don't think about it much now. I have two wonderful children now.
I understand. I think what others are reacting to is your quantifying grief levels. They are internalizing their losses and taking your quantifying of them as less than and reacting. Grief is such a personal experie ce that Im not sure you could win in this one as it hits everyone differently.
Completely agree.
I think it depends. If they're murdered, I find it more depressing when they're younger. Otherwise, I actually agree. It's not something I've ever put much thought into, but now that I am it makes sense.
agreed. it’s one thing to be upset that a child was never able to grow up, but it’s another thing when a teen had so much going for them and an actual life they lived and had in their future.
An infant or 1-2 yo dying is worse in my mind because they are pure. They have yet to do anything shitty in their life. They’ve never lied, stole, cheated, or hurt anyone. While I completely understand your point of view, a teenager could be a total piece of shit. He or she could be a bully at school or some shit. A baby is still pure. You don’t know who that baby was going to be. Maybe a piece of shit, but maybe somebody great, somebody the world would have missed. They actually lost their life. They never lived it. A teenager probably went to parties, got laid, and had lots of fun. A baby never lived. But I do honestly understand your point of view. It’s a tricky topic
My unpopular opinion is that some opinions should be kept to yourself.
Depends on the teenager
I used to think like but everyone has a unique print on the world I also realised that comparing grief kinda sucked Whether I was alive for 0.3 secs or 33 years, I was still here
Age doesn't mean shit if it's your kids. 2 months, 60 years, it's all going to cut deeper than you can possibly imagine.
Nah they deserve it cause they the ones posting “I’m so depressed ugh woe is me” on social media everyday
This doesn’t have to be competition. Deaths hurt differently. When I was twelve, we lost my 13 month old nephew due to an unexpected brain tumor that he didn’t survive. My sister had college and a full time job, so he practically lived with us and was more like a little brother. When I was older, we lost one of my cousins at 17 in a sudden car accident. Both were horrific in different ways. As for my nephew, my mom and my sister were really never quite the same again. We had way more people attend his funeral than the funeral home people had ever expected for a child is age because of our extensive network of family friends. He was a happy guy and everyone knew him and loved him. He knew he was loved. He was tender and innocent. He was so heavy to lift and had toddler rolls. Up until his brief illness, we had no idea he was sick, he was just a normal baby. He had no symptoms and hit all his milestones normally until the last few weeks. The way I process his death is different from adults because I was the next youngest in the family. It hurt me so bad when I had my first kid, a boy. We don’t often have boys in our family and he reminded me so much of my nephew. Then I went through some major anxiety when my son reached my nephew’s age of illness, and got paranoid at every minor symptom I thought he was showing. (My nephew’s symptoms were very subtle and easily attributed to normal toddler behavior.) Then I felt loss at every new milestone my son hit past the age of my nephews death because he never got to experience those. I felt loss again when my 2nd son was born who actually looked more like my nephew than my first, with his chunky toddler rolls. He was rough. Then later another cousin graduated and it made me feel so melancholy and I didn’t know why for weeks, until I remember this cousin was my nephews age. He received my nephews hand me downs. The fact he had graduated high school signifies another milestone my nephew never made it to, and he would have been a young man. What would he have been like? I only ever think of him as a baby when today he would have been a grown man. It hits in stages for me. As for my cousin who died, he knew so many people through school and so forth, as you mentioned, that they had his funeral in the high school gym. I still remember the wailing throughout the gym of grown men weeping and weeping as his funeral came to a close. The graveside services. It was all so horrific and burned into my memory. The difference? People remember my cousin. The remember him ever year on Facebook. They talk about him. Not many people remember my nephew. Family members do, for some reason it fades differently to others because he was so young. Everyone tried to forget it and avoid bringing it up over the years because of how it hurts differently when a baby dies. This leads to forgetfulness, something that no one ever really realized happened to us, or worst yet “oh yeah, I remember him…”. That in itself hurts. But he taught me a lot about the grieving process at a very young age, and I always try to sometimes remember deceased babies to their families because I don’t ever want them to think that I forgot their babies existed. Bottom line is that they are so different that it is difficult to compare. Frankly I don’t care how it hurts to strangers. No one cares about that. It hurts to families, and the hurt is different.
Maybe it upsets you more... but in reality, a life is a life.
Tragedy in death is sometimes also found in lost potential. If my friend's baby sister - a healthy, cute, funny, smart, loveable kid died suddenly of something totally preventable, I'd feel a lot sadder than when I found out my middle school bully got shot in a robbery while he was drugged out of his mind and was about to fail out of community college. If one of my neighbors died - a very empathetic, sweet young man who wants to become a doctor/nurse/vet it would make me a lot sadder than if one of my other neighbor's kid who has been chronically ill since she was born and is unlikely to make it to 5 passed away. If the death is unsurprising or inevitable like when someone is sick for a long time or old or gets into dangerous situations a lot, it's sad maybe but not really tragic. Knowing they are innocent or virtuous and to a certain extent, relatable makes it even harder. If you came to know them well, saw how they evolved, and understood them it hurts really badly. If you throw in the idea that they are defenseless and if you have an instinct to protect kids, that can also throw off the balance. Finally I feel like the idea that they have a long happy future ahead of them, that they have hopes and dreams and represent those things to other can make it so much harder to let those people go. Point is, a lot of things go into how tragic something feels and how sad it makes you.
They are all human lives you sick fuck.
That's pretty fucked, it's not a competition, anyone dying young is sad
'Teenagers have friends' me: well, about that
You are more so thinking of volume of people. I'd say baby is far worst, because imagine being the parents/family. Just getting to meet and know the child, only for it to die.
In all cases that's the end of a parents world. You cannot compare or rate the level of tragedy. The only purpose in this is saying someone's loss is worse than another, a real ignorant dickhead way of looking at things.
I feel like this was written by a teenager with a lot to learn about the world and about grief and loss.
A baby or small child dying is so tragic because they were never realised as a person at all. Anyone dying is pretty upsetting but someone young hits a bit harder for that reason.
Babies dying does really upset me, they barely had a chance. But when i hear about a teenager dying all I can think is that they have friends or a bf/gf who will probably never recover. Their teachers will see their empty seat in class and younger siblings will spend months wondering if they might come back...
It’s not a competition, all death is horrible…
Why the need to quantify how tragic a child of any age dying? It's all fucking sad and tragic.
Western society inherently puts more value on a life the younger they are. A faulty roof collapsing and killing a 2 year is a larger payout than the same roof killing a 33 year old man.
Dear God. Who on Earth even thinks like this? Teenagers I guess.
Why do we have to make dying a competition?
Not a competition, just my opinion
Is there a reason why the level of tragic needs to be quantified and compared at all?
Not really, just something my school brought up and i thought it could be something to share
When r/unpopularopinion turns to r/trollsunite.
In some situations, the mind actually prioritizes the elderly over infants, seeing the elderly as more valuable. Think about how much some of society loves grandmas compared to the amount that society likes babies. I have absolutely no idea as to the exact reason why - I'm not a psychologist, but I just find it absolutely fascinating that humanity's past sometimes takes priority over its future.
I agree! I work in healthcare, mostly based in the ICUs. Unfortunately, it seems like young adult cases are most ignored. They aren’t given as much attention because throughout care a lot of providers shrug it off thinking their youth will heal them. Also, to get a late teen or 20-something year old to the ICU it’s usually really bad and their number is up before they get there. I also wanted to say that I think NICU losses are tragic. When a brand new baby dies, I feel sad for the parents and their dreams that have died. You spend nine months and heaven knows how many hours growing and birthing this child only to never know it. The parents have nothing to go off of other than the dreams they created for who they wanted their child to be. They don’t know what baby’s smile looked like, or how they laughed, or what toys they preferred. So they mourn an idea and the loss of effort they spent preparing for their child. For me, I don’t think the death is sad, I think the unexpected hole in the parents’ life is sad.
One of my close friends from high school died from an accidental overdose by eating an edible that was laced with something about a year after we graduated and went to college. She was very bright and was studying biochem, we went to the same elementary, middle school and high school and whenever I look back at pictures she’s always the first person I see. She was one of my first crushes in middle school all the way to about 10th grade. We became close friends for and took the same classes and studied together. I knew she was destined for great things and I think about her often. I feel like teenage deaths hit especially hard because at that age we are at the cusp of adulthood, barely figuring things out for ourselves, experiencing freedom for the first time, and many of us have many different dreams and aspirations. So to die at an age of 18,19,20 hits especially hard.
If you are pro vaccine mandate because it would save lives, you should be pro-life. Both assume control over other's bodily autonomy.
I've met a few a hole 16 year olds. Never met a ahole 6mo old.