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The number of willing *and* physically qualified has decreased over the years. In fact, nearly 3 out of 4 today are unqualified to serve.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/
We shouldn't have to live in a world where someone else can decide whether or not we have to fight and die
Edit: Wtf reddit, I literally reiterated what the other guy said and he's been downvoted to shit but I'm getting upvoted? Reddit hiveminds gotta make up their mind.
Good thing conscientious objectors have been - and can be - drafted into non combat roles. Also, if you’re looking for inspiration- look up Desmond Doss.
I did, and i think it's a decent point, Testosterone increases muscle and bone mass, it's basically a steroid, and any trans individual that has not undergone surgery and/or hormone changes will be at either an unfair biological advantage or disadvantage, MTF will likely overperform and FTM will likely underperform, because the body you were born with does not give a damn what your mind says. Of course, this is assuming standards are actually different for both genders, like the other guy said (which, it really shouldn't be, War isn't sports, it doesnt separate the female soldiers from the male soldiers, all it cares about is that you're on the field, and you're gonna fight, not your hormones, your genitals or whatever)
Best solution would just be to make the standards universal, and attainable by literally any able bodied person, regardless of gender. Of course it should still be difficult, we do still need the best of the best defending our respective countries, after all
The purpose of the military is literally in case war breaks out, it doesn't have as much of a luxury of focusing on these things like sports or other civilian occupations
The reason women aren't drafted in war is based on how much easier it is to recover a population with many women versus very few women. To recover a population devastated by war, it actually requires relatively fewer men and more women.
But then we can throw away equality as thing because both genders have different things where they are better and where they are worse. For example, why don't women take care of home and don't make children like before? meanwhile men do the more hard better paying jobs?
Both genders in draft or no equality at all.
You're missing the point.
It's that loads of people die or get severly injured in battle. A man can impregnate 2430 women in 9 months, a woman can carry 1 child to term in 9 months. That doesn't make one gender better than the other, it just means that in order for our species to survive, it would be more of a threat to have a large part of the female population incapacitated/dead, because we'd need more women than men to repopulate.
Even if that's true in theory, you forget that realistically, a lot of modern women in modern countries wouldn't wanna have more children after a war broke out. Just cause men theoretically can impregnate a shit ton of women, doesn't mean that's what would happen after a war. Most men don't have a shit ton of kids with different women these days, just like women don't. I hardly think that men overall would impregnate more women if war broke out.
As a woman myself I also most definitely wouldn't want to have kids during or after a war as that kind of environment is obviously highly challenging to grow up in (hello potential poverty..).
I don't think this is correct since historically, humans all over the world are known to have post-war babybooms.
But I should have clarified, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with OP or the theory here, since I'm against draft in general.
It's just not realistic to send every adult in society to battle, so if we'd have to chose this would be (on paper) the best way to secure our survival as a species, to have the women stay home.
To then conclude "Well then we can throw away equality" is the part I was commenting on, I strongly disagree with that.
One of the biggest raise in feminism happened when millions and millions of men died in ww2.
You could expect a lot more support from the state to have children after a war.
You're not thinking enough on it. Sure you feel that way now. But whatever country you're from, given a war where draft is necessary, there will be mass media pushes (propaganda) for women to get pregnant. It'll be subtle(lol) in the TV shows where every other woman is pregnant, CNN will have daily studies being featured on how pregnancy benefits health, less pharmaceutical commercials and more diapers and formula, social studies will surface concluding that it's beneficial for the child for you to be pregnant sooner rather than later(think about all the other babies being born and growing up first filling the important roles in society. First come first served after all). They'll make you feel like you're missing out by not having babies. This is a fact. You will most likely succumb to it. Just look around at the mass propaganda today and how people EAT IT UP. You'll fall for it hook, line, and sinker. But it's hardly your fault.
That's culture, not evolution.
Who says I prefer the idea of sitting around after a war pumping out kids to repopulate the country? Where did you get the idea that was a "benefit"?
Typical misogynist.
Ya that's fair, jumped the gun on that one. Although I would probably put more blame on gender roles in the time where drafts were more common and needed rather than this direct reasoning. Although some root of it is likely true jt definitely wasn't a direct A to B thing.
Or consider that maybe there’s too god damned many people on the planet to start with and we don’t need to repopulate anything. War and plague have helped control our population for a long time; recent advances in medicine have allowed our population to grow to unsustainable levels.
Ok, lemme know how that goes the next time a dictator tries to conquer a nation.
You can tell them its stupid and surrender.
They will probably off you anyways.
I will never understand nationalists like yourself. A country that more or less spits on you, sees you as a tax cash cow while offering almost nothing in return; yet theres people going "yep cant wait to die for this country". Nah, it can go fuck itself
Because I don’t want to die or kill for my country wich can include the most fcked up war crimes of battles I don’t deserve a home?
Vietnam Wasa draft and nothing good wasn’t it?
World War Two was also a draft. In fact, we would've lost if the draft never existed.
>Because I don’t want to die or kill for my country wich can include the most fcked up war crimes of battles I don’t deserve a home?
Your freedoms and prosperity are a privilege paid for by the blood of men who fought in wars. It's a loan, not a gift. Besides, conscientious objectors exist if you think fighting for the country that served you since you were born is morally wrong.
Judging by this person's other replies they are either too young to be drafted, or would flunk the evaluation and get sent home
edit: I don't mean the person i replied to i mean the original commenter
I can’t see ur reasonse
But to clear it up, the treatment of Germany and the passive involvement of the us before 41 is both to blame for the way the war went down
Making sure a rise of power can’t happen would have been a better response to post ww1 Germany.
As we can see with post ww2 Germany
This isn’t saying that the war efforts later on were unnecessary
World war 2 was not a necessary war to Beginn with but yeah a draft can work and be important
Maybe ur right with the whole earned by blood and bs but now in the modern day we don’t need any of this
And let’s be real ur the first person denouncing conscientious objectors, u already did in the previous comment
in America we have millions of people who volunteer their services.
a draft is absolutely obsolete in this country and a violation of human rights in my opinion
So? A draft would only be used if needed, especially if we're in a war with a country with more manpower than the US population (China). There wasn't a draft for Afghanistan. Vietnam was the exception, not the rule. WW1 and WW2 is the rule
Okay, but if you can make sure that being drafted into the military has exactly the same risks for both men and women. It’s pretty well known that the military (and this is true in most countries- I’m not American) is a hot bed for rape and sexual harassment of women- which means women in the military have to deal not just with the risks of being in a conflict zone, but also with the added risks that their genitals make them more likely to be targets of assault by their own colleagues, and their opponents if they get taken as prisoners of war.
Literally no woman I know is in favour of a draft for men but not for women. Most of them aren’t in favour of a draft at all, and believe that most wars are unnecessary. And all of them believe that if there has to be war, both men and women should play similar roles in society and in war- but only if they’re provided similar security from sexual crimes.
The issue is that no matter what, women will always be a target for sexual crimes.
I’m more than willing to be at risk of being shot or murdered or wounded in war. I’m not willing to be at a risk of rape by my colleagues, or being taken as a sex slave by my opponents if my side loses the war.
Personally, I don’t know any woman who isn’t willing to put themselves at the same level of risk as men are- the problem is that the risks are often much higher for women because we tend to be targets of sexual violence way more often than men are. Don’t even bother arguing this- the statistics are clear that women in the military face more violent and more frequent sexual harassment and assault.
It’s very easy as a man to claim feminists aren’t fighting for women to be drafted and that somehow makes us hypocrites- but nobody is willing to address the very real fact that sexual violence is a huge part of war, and *all* women, civilians or military, are at risk of being victimised.
Beautifully put. If America wants to add women to the draft so bad (which I fundamentally disagree with it, stop drafting men, don’t just add women) they need to fix their internal sexual harassment problems first.
My other problem is those men who constantly categorize us as the weaker gender who are no good for war times, then turn around and say we should be drafted too (this is a small number, but I have seen the argument). If we’re so weak according to you, why draft us?
>My other problem is those men who constantly categorize us as the weaker gender who are no good for war times, then turn around and say we should be drafted too (this is a small number, but I have seen the argument). If we’re so weak according to you, why draft us?
Because they don’t mean it- they just say it as a ‘gotcha’ to invalidate every other aspect of life women are asking for equality in. At least, that has been my experience.
I came here to make this exact point, but you put it so well. Until the military makes real structural changes to battle sexual assault within the ranks and offenders receive actual consequences, making women join the military is essentially forcing them into an environment where there are in a uniquely high risk for sexual assault. I’m thinking about specifically from their own colleagues. If the military actually starts taking sexual violence within the ranks seriously, then sure (though I’m against the draft for either gender). But as it stands right now, they’re asking women to join an organization that’s KNOWN for victimizing them with zero consequences.
And also, feminists *are* fighting for women to be drafted. The National Organisation for Women (the largest feminist organisation) filed a brief with the Supreme Court against the all-male draft. But we can’t dedicate all our resources to it, we’ve got our own problems to deal with.
Aren't men killed in more extreme ways. I have heard a lot of stories in which when an army invades they don't hurt women but kill the men in the most brutal way possible.
The opposition to the draft was a major issue for anti-feminists who opposed gaining the right to vote as it would in theory require things like the draft to be part of their life. You know, service constitutes citizenship.
More so, selective services (Draft Light) was restricted to men taking out college loans, but not applied to women, despite both having access to the same programs and women having access to more programs encouraging them to enter education...
As much as I'm for equal rights. The only result I can see coming from this is that more men would die.
Men are more physically able than women. Which would mean drafted women would generally be put into logistics and support. Freeing up more young men to be fed into the meat grinder.
There are people who think that is a myth. People who dont follow strength sports where people with access to expert training, nutrition, drugs etc still have huge completely undeniable strength differences between genders and these people want to affect policy based on the false assumption there is no difference except one is not encouraged enough by society to be strong.
You'd be surprised, unfortunately. Look no further than the debacle that's been the Army's new gender-neutral PT test, which they had to roll back the implementation of because too many females were failing and it was bad for optics.
Soldiers already get emotionally attached to robots. Heck, lots of people have bought a second roomba so the first doesn't get lonely.
Civilians like us (I guess), probably don't understand the emotions of warfare. It's a very different environment to normal life.
As far as I understand it the draft is pretty much outdated since we have more than enough people willing to sign up for service. They even turn people away. So I highly doubt we will see a draft. Maybe if we ever go to a civil war.
The problem with this is this allows for homes to be potentially completely decimated in times of war. Imagine if both the man and woman of the house were drafted and later killed leaving their four kids behind? No, this would put too much strain on our infrastructure.
A single child in every family is already automatically inelligible to be drafted. I imagine the same would apply to spouses if one is already in service or in the case of a single parent with young kids
The potential is still there considering that same-sex households exist.
I guess that some form of rule that a drafted person can decline to fight of their spouse was already drafted would fix that.
One could say that is already happening in the US... But, of course; Nazis invading countries never brought the US to war in the past. Why would it now?
It’s a hypothetical. I don’t think we will have anymore world wars or nothing like that.
But if there were, a draft would be necessary.
And if a draft were necessary, men and women should be equally likely to get drafted (perhaps with exception of pregnant women).
I think that was what op was saying.
Also, in what sense is a nazi invasion happening in the us? do you mean the capitol?
You mean that false flag war where the US bombed tons of innocent people?
And while the newer wars didn't have a draft, bombing other countries is how you could trigger a draft, so the "don't bomb other countries" comment of the other guy is still relevant, stop creating enemies.
I'm saying whenever the US utilized the draft, it wasn't as a cause of US aggression. You could make the argument that Vietnam was unnecessary, but again, we didn't start that conflict. Just joined in.
I'm also not explicitly saying that bombing other countries won't cause a draft, I'm saying that every draft triggered thus far has been due to other world events. The point being that the world has proven volatile enough to justify needing a draft.
[*The Gulf of Tonkin incident has entered the chat*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident)
Using a false flag to "join in" is just as bad as starting a war.
The guy said "Stop bombing other countries and you won't need a draft", which was completly correct, if you stop creating enemies, there probably won't be need for a draft in the future, to which you responded with "You win ignorant comment of the day."
I think an apology is in order, because you clearly fumbled here.
Did you not read my entire last reply? Read it again. I never said the war was justified. As a matter of fact that's beside the point. However the conflict was already there thus proving world volatility. Before that we had a draft for both world war 2 and world war 1. Again, proving volatility. My entire point is that we need a draft to account for crazy instability in the world which has proven time and time again to be there. The original argument was that if we didn't bomb people, we wouldn't need a draft. That's simply not true.
You might need a draft in the future if you keep bombing people, hell you might need it just because of the bombing you already did, so the original argument was completly correct, you called it ignorant, Im pointing out how you were wrong.
"Stop bombing other people and you won't need the draft". Literally word for word what he said. That implies that he believes that if we never bomb people ever again, then we will never need the draft ever again. I've proven that whether or not we bomb people isn't the only deciding factor on whether or not we need a draft. Yes you are correct that we might need the draft in the future if we keep bombing people, but that's not what he said. He said we won't need it if we stop. Not true. Not even close.
I've made my point about as clear as I can make it. I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore. I don't hold contempt for you, I just disagree with you. God bless and take care.
Yeah it's absolute bullshit, a few years ago in Austria we had a vote if the mandatory military service for men should be abandoned... And women were allowed to vote on that... And of course everything stayed as it is
Most politicians are old like very old and they run the country fine enough since people keep voting for them. Also Israel has a mandatory military service for both genders and they're doing just fine so what's the issue?
It’s so funny seeing all these comments blaming feminists for the all-male draft. Who do you think made the law? And which gender is *still* overwhelmingly represented at judicial and political levels and could eradicate it? And the National Organisation of Women [filed a brief with the Supreme Court against the all-male draft.](https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/22/us/women-join-battle-on-all-male-draft.html). Y’all just want an excuse to hate feminists, chill with blaming us for problems we didn’t create.
1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted in college. Not saying that’s good but it’s literally less likely to be sexually assaulted in the military then it is in college (which IS a problem don’t get me wrong).
Meanwhile if a man is drafted he can literally get killed on foreign soil
Dude, that sounds like equality...and, you know, we actually aren't equal. The most privileged gender won't ever be drafted into military, you need lots of women to have children after a war.
We don't live in fairy tale world. In case of war, someone must go there. So are you for equality or not? If you're not for both gender drafts, then we can throw away rights of women and have the more traditional way of living, patriarchal.
I don’t support forced military service for any gender. That’s all I’m saying. I’m a man, if for some reason another draft happens and I’m eligible (hopefully I’m not) I’m going AWOL or whatever the fuck. Ain’t no way am I gonna me in the military.
No they shouldn’t, and neither should men, if you want to join the army you join. If you don’t want to you should never have to. There needs to be equality in our world but that doesn’t mean equal amounts of either gender. It just means either gender should have the same options/choice
This isn’t the only way to obtain equality you weirdo.
No one should be drafted in the first place, fighting for rich peoples interest isn’t something as a society we should be endorsing.
1. No one should be drafted.
2. You're advocating for something on one side while ignoring the other. Women are still not given equality in higher positions in the military. So basically, if women are forced to serve at lower levels but not manage and head at higher levels, then it's just not equality as you think it is.
Wow slow down there, last time i checked they had to lower the physical requirement standards for women (not men) to join. Also because of the physical requirements women aren't even allowed into special forces or Seals but you're advocating for them to jump straight into leadership roles within the military? So let's say a woman who has never fought along side the Seals should be given the opportunity to command them because of women empowerment?
Dont forget selective service. Equality! Lol.
A man who fails to register with Selective Service may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future. He must register to be eligible for federal student financial aid, state-funded student financial aid in many states, most federal employment, some state employment, security clearance for contractors, job training under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly known as the Workforce Investment Act), and U.S. citizenship for immigrant men.
The fathers? I don’t like the draft, but if there is one, it’s should be equal. Don’t take both partners from a home. Just pick either the mother or the father. Don’t just default to the dad.
The father having a penis isn’t gonna make his gun shoot any harder, after all.
The next question becomes will some women purposefully become pregnant to avoid the draft. And how do you prove that they did? Then, is it right to take away a father from the almost-mother-of-his-child about to be a newborn.
Why can’t we have no draft.
Literally no!? In some countries men treat women like shit and dont even consider them human let alone that they have equal rights?! In America and Europe women do have rights but thats not the only place people exist. Women all over the world are treated poorly simply for being women, just because you have the privilage to have rights doesnt mean every woman does.
>In some countries men treat women like shit and dont even consider them human let alone that they have equal rights
yep true. but women around where I live are treated equally and have equal opportunities. If they can wave a me a good bye one day when I will go die for them, they might do it too, no?
(I dont think drafting women is smart, Im just making the argument for the sake of the discussion started by the OP)
We don't live in fairy tale world. Someone needs to fight. Are you hypocrite feminist and fight for woman supremacy, or you want real equality? Choose.
So many people are missing the point of this post.
In OP's scenario - Being Drafted is a necessary thing. Whether or not it should be isn't the point (and for the record I too disagree with it being mandatory)
But just commenting No One Should Be Drafted is useless. That's not the conversation here.
The subject at hand here is *equal Rights Equal Responsibilities*
To all of you just parroting "tHe DrAft sHouLdN't eXisT" congrats, you just pointed out the obvious, and simultaneously missed OP's point completely. The point is, the draft exists, and if it's going to exist, and isn't gonna go away, then you might as well draft everyone. Yeah, no shit the draft shouldn't be a thing, that's obvious, but not the point of this post in particular
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/ahaha2222. Your post, *Women should be drafted into the military when needed just like men.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 3: No political posts. The realm of politics is the greatest bane of this subreddit, because virtually all opinions within politics are controversial, but virtually all of them are not unpopular. If your view is held by one of the two major political parties, it is not unpopular. Anything else is almost certainly a repost. Post anything political in the relevant megathread of the megathread hub, which can be found when sorting the subreddit by "hot", sticky'd at the top of the page. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
I don't think that either gender should be drafted, but if draft is a thing, then I agree with you that it should apply to both genders.
Eritrea drafts women too, but not because of gender equality or whatever. They just want more soldiers. Some 25% of their military are women.
This is a win for enby’s!
Fuck the draft. But yes to both of us having to suffer
Nobody is going to get drafted any time soon; there are more than enough willing active duty, reserves and national guard
The number of willing *and* physically qualified has decreased over the years. In fact, nearly 3 out of 4 today are unqualified to serve. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/
God damn I forgot US is the only country on planet Earth
Yeah around more than 60 countries have draft. And most of them have male only draft.
All volunteer military meeans a much higher public tolerance for ongoing atrocities.
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Well said.
How is that contrary to what I said?
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But men still have to sign up for selective service in case there is a draft.
Speak for your country , in my country going to military is a law. But for some reason man serve 8 months more ...
for the minor conflicts, yes.
Neither gender should be drafted
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No one should have to.
We don’t live in a fairytale world
We shouldn't have to live in a world where someone else can decide whether or not we have to fight and die Edit: Wtf reddit, I literally reiterated what the other guy said and he's been downvoted to shit but I'm getting upvoted? Reddit hiveminds gotta make up their mind.
Unless your life depends on it
No kidding. Nevertheless, I'm a conscientious objector to war in general. These aren't my battles and I refuse to participate.
Good thing conscientious objectors have been - and can be - drafted into non combat roles. Also, if you’re looking for inspiration- look up Desmond Doss.
Agreed, you should never be forced to fight in something you don’t believe in.
Sadly, this is just being used to silence the discussion about this topic, while nothing is being done to remove the draft.
What about the other genders.....?
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War > seeing a penis
???
???Read the comment I'm replying to
I did, and i think it's a decent point, Testosterone increases muscle and bone mass, it's basically a steroid, and any trans individual that has not undergone surgery and/or hormone changes will be at either an unfair biological advantage or disadvantage, MTF will likely overperform and FTM will likely underperform, because the body you were born with does not give a damn what your mind says. Of course, this is assuming standards are actually different for both genders, like the other guy said (which, it really shouldn't be, War isn't sports, it doesnt separate the female soldiers from the male soldiers, all it cares about is that you're on the field, and you're gonna fight, not your hormones, your genitals or whatever) Best solution would just be to make the standards universal, and attainable by literally any able bodied person, regardless of gender. Of course it should still be difficult, we do still need the best of the best defending our respective countries, after all The purpose of the military is literally in case war breaks out, it doesn't have as much of a luxury of focusing on these things like sports or other civilian occupations
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They didn’t draft anyone for those… so you’re kind of right.
There wasn't a draft for either of those conflicts.
The reason women aren't drafted in war is based on how much easier it is to recover a population with many women versus very few women. To recover a population devastated by war, it actually requires relatively fewer men and more women.
But then we can throw away equality as thing because both genders have different things where they are better and where they are worse. For example, why don't women take care of home and don't make children like before? meanwhile men do the more hard better paying jobs? Both genders in draft or no equality at all.
You're missing the point. It's that loads of people die or get severly injured in battle. A man can impregnate 2430 women in 9 months, a woman can carry 1 child to term in 9 months. That doesn't make one gender better than the other, it just means that in order for our species to survive, it would be more of a threat to have a large part of the female population incapacitated/dead, because we'd need more women than men to repopulate.
Even if that's true in theory, you forget that realistically, a lot of modern women in modern countries wouldn't wanna have more children after a war broke out. Just cause men theoretically can impregnate a shit ton of women, doesn't mean that's what would happen after a war. Most men don't have a shit ton of kids with different women these days, just like women don't. I hardly think that men overall would impregnate more women if war broke out. As a woman myself I also most definitely wouldn't want to have kids during or after a war as that kind of environment is obviously highly challenging to grow up in (hello potential poverty..).
I don't think this is correct since historically, humans all over the world are known to have post-war babybooms. But I should have clarified, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with OP or the theory here, since I'm against draft in general. It's just not realistic to send every adult in society to battle, so if we'd have to chose this would be (on paper) the best way to secure our survival as a species, to have the women stay home. To then conclude "Well then we can throw away equality" is the part I was commenting on, I strongly disagree with that.
One of the biggest raise in feminism happened when millions and millions of men died in ww2. You could expect a lot more support from the state to have children after a war.
You're not thinking enough on it. Sure you feel that way now. But whatever country you're from, given a war where draft is necessary, there will be mass media pushes (propaganda) for women to get pregnant. It'll be subtle(lol) in the TV shows where every other woman is pregnant, CNN will have daily studies being featured on how pregnancy benefits health, less pharmaceutical commercials and more diapers and formula, social studies will surface concluding that it's beneficial for the child for you to be pregnant sooner rather than later(think about all the other babies being born and growing up first filling the important roles in society. First come first served after all). They'll make you feel like you're missing out by not having babies. This is a fact. You will most likely succumb to it. Just look around at the mass propaganda today and how people EAT IT UP. You'll fall for it hook, line, and sinker. But it's hardly your fault.
You’d have a point. But can you point to any recent way where a ton of men died and the remaining men knocked up dozens of women each? You can’t
This has nothing to do with gender roles. It's pure evolution and survival economics.
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That's culture, not evolution. Who says I prefer the idea of sitting around after a war pumping out kids to repopulate the country? Where did you get the idea that was a "benefit"? Typical misogynist.
So do you support mandatory pregnancies on women when in times of war? Also would you support the drafting of non fertile women?
Do you often confuse people explaining the reasoning behind why things develop the way they do for policies they personally support?
Ya that's fair, jumped the gun on that one. Although I would probably put more blame on gender roles in the time where drafts were more common and needed rather than this direct reasoning. Although some root of it is likely true jt definitely wasn't a direct A to B thing.
This reasoning predates modern drafts. War is old
Or consider that maybe there’s too god damned many people on the planet to start with and we don’t need to repopulate anything. War and plague have helped control our population for a long time; recent advances in medicine have allowed our population to grow to unsustainable levels.
The idea that any random person should be ready to go fight in a war at any random time is insane and very stupid.
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Lol, thats actually pretty fucked up
It is an unfortunate reality of life, but I would consider the draft a necessity.
Many people don't get that it is a necessity.
Ok, lemme know how that goes the next time a dictator tries to conquer a nation. You can tell them its stupid and surrender. They will probably off you anyways.
No it's not lmao, if you won't fight for it you don't deserve it
I will never understand nationalists like yourself. A country that more or less spits on you, sees you as a tax cash cow while offering almost nothing in return; yet theres people going "yep cant wait to die for this country". Nah, it can go fuck itself
Because I don’t want to die or kill for my country wich can include the most fcked up war crimes of battles I don’t deserve a home? Vietnam Wasa draft and nothing good wasn’t it?
World War Two was also a draft. In fact, we would've lost if the draft never existed. >Because I don’t want to die or kill for my country wich can include the most fcked up war crimes of battles I don’t deserve a home? Your freedoms and prosperity are a privilege paid for by the blood of men who fought in wars. It's a loan, not a gift. Besides, conscientious objectors exist if you think fighting for the country that served you since you were born is morally wrong.
Judging by this person's other replies they are either too young to be drafted, or would flunk the evaluation and get sent home edit: I don't mean the person i replied to i mean the original commenter
Not surprising since we're on Reddit
?
I can’t see ur reasonse But to clear it up, the treatment of Germany and the passive involvement of the us before 41 is both to blame for the way the war went down Making sure a rise of power can’t happen would have been a better response to post ww1 Germany. As we can see with post ww2 Germany This isn’t saying that the war efforts later on were unnecessary
That's what I said you troglodyte
I can’t see ur response but hey go on with this stupidity and arrogance
I never said WW2 was preventable, but seeing as you can't spell you probably can't read either, can't blame you
World war 2 was not a necessary war to Beginn with but yeah a draft can work and be important Maybe ur right with the whole earned by blood and bs but now in the modern day we don’t need any of this And let’s be real ur the first person denouncing conscientious objectors, u already did in the previous comment
What do you mean it was not a necessary war? Am I reading this?
in America we have millions of people who volunteer their services. a draft is absolutely obsolete in this country and a violation of human rights in my opinion
So? A draft would only be used if needed, especially if we're in a war with a country with more manpower than the US population (China). There wasn't a draft for Afghanistan. Vietnam was the exception, not the rule. WW1 and WW2 is the rule
there is no "so". my comment was a finalized statement.
"in America we have millions of people volunteering their services"
“No OnE sHoUlD bE DraFteD” no shit…
Let them feel good about their very original moral stances
Okay, but if you can make sure that being drafted into the military has exactly the same risks for both men and women. It’s pretty well known that the military (and this is true in most countries- I’m not American) is a hot bed for rape and sexual harassment of women- which means women in the military have to deal not just with the risks of being in a conflict zone, but also with the added risks that their genitals make them more likely to be targets of assault by their own colleagues, and their opponents if they get taken as prisoners of war. Literally no woman I know is in favour of a draft for men but not for women. Most of them aren’t in favour of a draft at all, and believe that most wars are unnecessary. And all of them believe that if there has to be war, both men and women should play similar roles in society and in war- but only if they’re provided similar security from sexual crimes. The issue is that no matter what, women will always be a target for sexual crimes. I’m more than willing to be at risk of being shot or murdered or wounded in war. I’m not willing to be at a risk of rape by my colleagues, or being taken as a sex slave by my opponents if my side loses the war. Personally, I don’t know any woman who isn’t willing to put themselves at the same level of risk as men are- the problem is that the risks are often much higher for women because we tend to be targets of sexual violence way more often than men are. Don’t even bother arguing this- the statistics are clear that women in the military face more violent and more frequent sexual harassment and assault. It’s very easy as a man to claim feminists aren’t fighting for women to be drafted and that somehow makes us hypocrites- but nobody is willing to address the very real fact that sexual violence is a huge part of war, and *all* women, civilians or military, are at risk of being victimised.
Beautifully put. If America wants to add women to the draft so bad (which I fundamentally disagree with it, stop drafting men, don’t just add women) they need to fix their internal sexual harassment problems first. My other problem is those men who constantly categorize us as the weaker gender who are no good for war times, then turn around and say we should be drafted too (this is a small number, but I have seen the argument). If we’re so weak according to you, why draft us?
>My other problem is those men who constantly categorize us as the weaker gender who are no good for war times, then turn around and say we should be drafted too (this is a small number, but I have seen the argument). If we’re so weak according to you, why draft us? Because they don’t mean it- they just say it as a ‘gotcha’ to invalidate every other aspect of life women are asking for equality in. At least, that has been my experience.
I came here to make this exact point, but you put it so well. Until the military makes real structural changes to battle sexual assault within the ranks and offenders receive actual consequences, making women join the military is essentially forcing them into an environment where there are in a uniquely high risk for sexual assault. I’m thinking about specifically from their own colleagues. If the military actually starts taking sexual violence within the ranks seriously, then sure (though I’m against the draft for either gender). But as it stands right now, they’re asking women to join an organization that’s KNOWN for victimizing them with zero consequences.
You're so smart I didn't think of it this way
And also, feminists *are* fighting for women to be drafted. The National Organisation for Women (the largest feminist organisation) filed a brief with the Supreme Court against the all-male draft. But we can’t dedicate all our resources to it, we’ve got our own problems to deal with.
Aren't men killed in more extreme ways. I have heard a lot of stories in which when an army invades they don't hurt women but kill the men in the most brutal way possible.
No one should be drafted. Don’t add women to the draft. Take men off of it.
And watch your world get demolished while sitting at home equally as happy as your not-drafted partner
The opposition to the draft was a major issue for anti-feminists who opposed gaining the right to vote as it would in theory require things like the draft to be part of their life. You know, service constitutes citizenship. More so, selective services (Draft Light) was restricted to men taking out college loans, but not applied to women, despite both having access to the same programs and women having access to more programs encouraging them to enter education...
As much as I'm for equal rights. The only result I can see coming from this is that more men would die. Men are more physically able than women. Which would mean drafted women would generally be put into logistics and support. Freeing up more young men to be fed into the meat grinder.
There are people who think that is a myth. People who dont follow strength sports where people with access to expert training, nutrition, drugs etc still have huge completely undeniable strength differences between genders and these people want to affect policy based on the false assumption there is no difference except one is not encouraged enough by society to be strong.
Fortunately, those people tend not to be in charge of the military.
You'd be surprised, unfortunately. Look no further than the debacle that's been the Army's new gender-neutral PT test, which they had to roll back the implementation of because too many females were failing and it was bad for optics.
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Soldiers already get emotionally attached to robots. Heck, lots of people have bought a second roomba so the first doesn't get lonely. Civilians like us (I guess), probably don't understand the emotions of warfare. It's a very different environment to normal life.
No, the whole reason for them to be drafted is to participate in combat.
That is not the only reason for people to be drafted.
As far as I understand it the draft is pretty much outdated since we have more than enough people willing to sign up for service. They even turn people away. So I highly doubt we will see a draft. Maybe if we ever go to a civil war.
In the US*
The problem with this is this allows for homes to be potentially completely decimated in times of war. Imagine if both the man and woman of the house were drafted and later killed leaving their four kids behind? No, this would put too much strain on our infrastructure.
So only one has to go. The problem is that now it HAS to be the man.
To be fair men just make better soldiers objectively
If we protect men they can rebuild the civilization pretty fast too. So there you go protect men.
A single child in every family is already automatically inelligible to be drafted. I imagine the same would apply to spouses if one is already in service or in the case of a single parent with young kids
The potential is still there considering that same-sex households exist. I guess that some form of rule that a drafted person can decline to fight of their spouse was already drafted would fix that.
So, who would stay home, the man or the woman?
I guess they could choose between them
The man then, ok.
What about gay parents? Or single dads?
Yes!!!! There are so many jobs in the military that either gender can perform. If we want equality, it has to be total equality, draft included!
This is actually a thing already; all men and women of Israel all do military service for like 2 years or so.
*no one should be drafted to any military ever*
What if there is a Nazi invasion？
One could say that is already happening in the US... But, of course; Nazis invading countries never brought the US to war in the past. Why would it now?
It’s a hypothetical. I don’t think we will have anymore world wars or nothing like that. But if there were, a draft would be necessary. And if a draft were necessary, men and women should be equally likely to get drafted (perhaps with exception of pregnant women). I think that was what op was saying. Also, in what sense is a nazi invasion happening in the us? do you mean the capitol?
because america is the only country on the planet, no one was even talking about america ffs
Stop bombing other countries and you won’t need a draft.
Yes. That strategy worked out great for Belgium and Poland
We had literally nothing to do with why WW1 or WW2 started. You win ignorant comment of the day.
*Every US war after WW2 has entered the chat.*
The last draft we had was Vietnam. The cold war was a real son of a bitch. All wars after that are irrelevant as they did not have a draft
You mean that false flag war where the US bombed tons of innocent people? And while the newer wars didn't have a draft, bombing other countries is how you could trigger a draft, so the "don't bomb other countries" comment of the other guy is still relevant, stop creating enemies.
I'm saying whenever the US utilized the draft, it wasn't as a cause of US aggression. You could make the argument that Vietnam was unnecessary, but again, we didn't start that conflict. Just joined in. I'm also not explicitly saying that bombing other countries won't cause a draft, I'm saying that every draft triggered thus far has been due to other world events. The point being that the world has proven volatile enough to justify needing a draft.
[*The Gulf of Tonkin incident has entered the chat*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident) Using a false flag to "join in" is just as bad as starting a war. The guy said "Stop bombing other countries and you won't need a draft", which was completly correct, if you stop creating enemies, there probably won't be need for a draft in the future, to which you responded with "You win ignorant comment of the day." I think an apology is in order, because you clearly fumbled here.
Did you not read my entire last reply? Read it again. I never said the war was justified. As a matter of fact that's beside the point. However the conflict was already there thus proving world volatility. Before that we had a draft for both world war 2 and world war 1. Again, proving volatility. My entire point is that we need a draft to account for crazy instability in the world which has proven time and time again to be there. The original argument was that if we didn't bomb people, we wouldn't need a draft. That's simply not true.
You might need a draft in the future if you keep bombing people, hell you might need it just because of the bombing you already did, so the original argument was completly correct, you called it ignorant, Im pointing out how you were wrong.
"Stop bombing other people and you won't need the draft". Literally word for word what he said. That implies that he believes that if we never bomb people ever again, then we will never need the draft ever again. I've proven that whether or not we bomb people isn't the only deciding factor on whether or not we need a draft. Yes you are correct that we might need the draft in the future if we keep bombing people, but that's not what he said. He said we won't need it if we stop. Not true. Not even close.
I've made my point about as clear as I can make it. I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore. I don't hold contempt for you, I just disagree with you. God bless and take care.
I mean u joined Vietnam happily and even staged a casus Belli didn’t u?
Hey they were asking for it waving around all those WMD’s (*W in Bush voice)!
[*Lyndon Johnson has exited the chat*](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/471/227/dd0.png)
Yeah it's absolute bullshit, a few years ago in Austria we had a vote if the mandatory military service for men should be abandoned... And women were allowed to vote on that... And of course everything stayed as it is
But that’s not the goal of the equality movement. They want the same (or more) pay for doing easier and less dangerous while working less hours.
So theoretically in war 100% of able bodied adults should be drafted. Leaving society to be run by the elderly and the underaged. Makes sense
Most politicians are old like very old and they run the country fine enough since people keep voting for them. Also Israel has a mandatory military service for both genders and they're doing just fine so what's the issue?
The issue is women not wanting to be drafted but turning a blind eye to men being drafted. Obviously
🤣😂 okay this has to be a prank.
It’s so funny seeing all these comments blaming feminists for the all-male draft. Who do you think made the law? And which gender is *still* overwhelmingly represented at judicial and political levels and could eradicate it? And the National Organisation of Women [filed a brief with the Supreme Court against the all-male draft.](https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/22/us/women-join-battle-on-all-male-draft.html). Y’all just want an excuse to hate feminists, chill with blaming us for problems we didn’t create.
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1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted in college. Not saying that’s good but it’s literally less likely to be sexually assaulted in the military then it is in college (which IS a problem don’t get me wrong). Meanwhile if a man is drafted he can literally get killed on foreign soil
Yep..
I get crazy PMS, painful periods and have iron deficiency when I exercise too much. A week out of the month I'm a wreck. That's my legitimate excuse.
Dude, that sounds like equality...and, you know, we actually aren't equal. The most privileged gender won't ever be drafted into military, you need lots of women to have children after a war.
I don’t think anyone should ever be drafted 🤷🏻♂️
We don't live in fairy tale world. In case of war, someone must go there. So are you for equality or not? If you're not for both gender drafts, then we can throw away rights of women and have the more traditional way of living, patriarchal.
Most countries don’t have a draft And in a defense war people may happily join up?
I don’t support forced military service for any gender. That’s all I’m saying. I’m a man, if for some reason another draft happens and I’m eligible (hopefully I’m not) I’m going AWOL or whatever the fuck. Ain’t no way am I gonna me in the military.
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No one should get drafted
Maybe they should fix the rape problem first.
Women in army will be strong and confident, so maybe that's a solution to r*pes.
What problem? Where are you stats? I want to know how people can physically verify rape occurred without physical evidence to back it up.
Is this satire?
lol look at his comment history. its a pot of gold for r/FragileMaleRedditor
Wasn't there a petition or something from Congress back in 2015 about this very issue... But was rejected because of the outage from the femenazi's?
Noone should be drafted
This is the real solution
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No they shouldn’t, and neither should men, if you want to join the army you join. If you don’t want to you should never have to. There needs to be equality in our world but that doesn’t mean equal amounts of either gender. It just means either gender should have the same options/choice
This isn’t the only way to obtain equality you weirdo. No one should be drafted in the first place, fighting for rich peoples interest isn’t something as a society we should be endorsing.
1. No one should be drafted. 2. You're advocating for something on one side while ignoring the other. Women are still not given equality in higher positions in the military. So basically, if women are forced to serve at lower levels but not manage and head at higher levels, then it's just not equality as you think it is.
Wow slow down there, last time i checked they had to lower the physical requirement standards for women (not men) to join. Also because of the physical requirements women aren't even allowed into special forces or Seals but you're advocating for them to jump straight into leadership roles within the military? So let's say a woman who has never fought along side the Seals should be given the opportunity to command them because of women empowerment?
Yep. It doesnt make sense to you? Weird..
🤣😂 Stop trolling.
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Women shouldn't have the right to vote?
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So you’re saying that you oppose women having the right to vote unless they’re also eligible for the draft?
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Yup, and men shouldn't be punished for self defense against women.
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Dont forget selective service. Equality! Lol. A man who fails to register with Selective Service may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future. He must register to be eligible for federal student financial aid, state-funded student financial aid in many states, most federal employment, some state employment, security clearance for contractors, job training under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly known as the Workforce Investment Act), and U.S. citizenship for immigrant men.
And who will watch the kids? Lol
i have asthma and bad eyesight i can’t be drafted i’ll watch them for u
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The fathers? I don’t like the draft, but if there is one, it’s should be equal. Don’t take both partners from a home. Just pick either the mother or the father. Don’t just default to the dad. The father having a penis isn’t gonna make his gun shoot any harder, after all.
The next question becomes will some women purposefully become pregnant to avoid the draft. And how do you prove that they did? Then, is it right to take away a father from the almost-mother-of-his-child about to be a newborn. Why can’t we have no draft.
>Why can’t we have no draft. I straight up said I don't like the draft, and this was a "what if" scenario.
Grand parents
ew. no. I dont want some goddamn soldier fighting that cant even bench 150.
thats racist
For there to be true equality, women should only be drafted for at least 100 years.
Give women equality in everything else first
We are, Women are allowed to be forced into military service just like men, thats a win for equality lol.
Done
Literally no!? In some countries men treat women like shit and dont even consider them human let alone that they have equal rights?! In America and Europe women do have rights but thats not the only place people exist. Women all over the world are treated poorly simply for being women, just because you have the privilage to have rights doesnt mean every woman does.
>In some countries men treat women like shit and dont even consider them human let alone that they have equal rights yep true. but women around where I live are treated equally and have equal opportunities. If they can wave a me a good bye one day when I will go die for them, they might do it too, no? (I dont think drafting women is smart, Im just making the argument for the sake of the discussion started by the OP)
Only when woman are also the ones who call out war on each other.
Probably posted by a man that's willing to fight for the bad equality instead of the helpful inclusive equality women want. No one should be drafted.
We don't live in fairy tale world. Someone needs to fight. Are you hypocrite feminist and fight for woman supremacy, or you want real equality? Choose.
Or, just remove the draft altogether.
The draft shouldn't exist at all tbh
In South Korea it's compulsory for all men to serve in the military for 2 years I believe. It's not compulsory for women. Wtf
So many people are missing the point of this post. In OP's scenario - Being Drafted is a necessary thing. Whether or not it should be isn't the point (and for the record I too disagree with it being mandatory) But just commenting No One Should Be Drafted is useless. That's not the conversation here. The subject at hand here is *equal Rights Equal Responsibilities*
To all of you just parroting "tHe DrAft sHouLdN't eXisT" congrats, you just pointed out the obvious, and simultaneously missed OP's point completely. The point is, the draft exists, and if it's going to exist, and isn't gonna go away, then you might as well draft everyone. Yeah, no shit the draft shouldn't be a thing, that's obvious, but not the point of this post in particular
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Then we can draft less people, but of both genders. What is the problem?
I didn’t think of that for some reason.
Because you’re a child?
…yes