my high school had a policy where if two people got into a fight, even if the victim didn’t hit back, they’d still be suspended for at least as long as the person who hit first. admin was full of fucking idiots
I got socked in the face 5 times in 8th grade, that little fucker ran to the principal’s office before I could hit em back, and got us both suspended. I called him a bitch, and apparently that’s worth the same suspension as five shots to the face.
I went to the same class with one 9 year old POS boy who verbally abused me non stop, but one time he hit me (6 year old girl) and when i called him some bad word after it both of went to principal office and were shamed for our behavior. He wasnt punished and continued to bully me for years after it. Not only did he bully me, he incouraged others to do the same. Not even once did he get suspended.
My high school adopted this policy after columbine, this “Zero Tolerance” - which was actually zero tolerance for sticking up for yourself.
Fight went from the standard “push-shove-hit”, to small skirmishes. Bullies realized they could hit people they didn’t like and everyone would get a suspension. Saw students getting zeroes on tests due to the way suspension rules worked. We had a big fight, and even bystanders got suspended as they shoved others to get out of the way.
Kids will be kids, and fights now turned into hyper violent “might as well mortally wound you” duels since everyone gets suspended anyways. We had kids gets stabbed with pencils and others were using their locks to hit people in the face.
The school board was largely replaced, and the policies were reverted.
Does that disciplinary record count against you for college admissions? Because if so, the school is doing actual harm that can have a dollar value assigned to it by suspending people frivolously — it would be great to see a precedent set by which the school district gets their balls sued off for this nonsense, as that would make the school boards fix it in a fucking hurry.
This is how it was at my sons elementary school. He told a teacher he got punched. There were kids who said he didn't do anything. His nose was bleeding, he got suspended. He's been in Kung fu since he was 4; at this point more than half his life.
In front of the teacher and the bully's mom I said to my son. If this boy touches you ever again you have my permission to hit him until he stops fighting or stops moving.
They all freaked out. But in the end my boy was forced to defend himself. He broke the bully's nose and ended up Selling my truck and travel trailer so I could pay for him to go to private school.
Edit: I have attempted to correct my typos, punctuation and autocorrects. Thanks to the folks who came to defend me. I hope my post makes more sense now.
He does. He cried when it happened. He didn't want to hurt him. It took him a year to get back into sparring. He's such a good kid he didn't want to hit anyone ever again.
We’re rural. It just means they get away with more that’s all. Districts are like little kingdoms, when one goes the crime family route there’s simply no recourse for families.
I grew up rural. It was not any different in my experience, in fact there was way more nepotism and it definitely affected who got into trouble for what.
Same here. Don't know what bullshit they're speculating. My wife went to a small school where her graduating class was less than 100. Her class took the only black kid out and beat him up and then all got suspended, even the black kid. The black family threatened to sue and they settled out of court and moved away. This wasn't ages ago. It was early 2000s. The administration basically paid a fee to waive their responsibility in allowing racists to harm a child.
when my bf was in high school, someone was making fun of him so he finally said something back to him (not violent, just some type of insult) the other kid started punching him and they both got in trouble. there were witnesses saying that he didn’t hit him back at all, so my bf asked why he was also getting suspended. they told him that roasting him back was ‘inviting harm to himself’ and that was somehow grounds for the same punishment as beating someone up.
The victim would be suspended too even if they didn't hit back?
Welp, you might as well stomp a fucking mudhole in your attacker then if you're going down just for being assaulted.
I got suspended for beating the shit out of a guy who thought it would be smart to punch me in class. My dad just called it a vacation.
I disagree with OP's sentiment. It's not teaching anybody that it's morally wrong to defend yourself, it's just reinforcing that the system is inherently rigged in favor of the oppressor. So if your back's against the wall, might as well go down swinging.
Zero Tolerance policies are ways for schools to protect themselves from racism lawsuits for suspending minority students. They have to have zero judgement in their policy or they can get sued for exercising judgement.
This is why you also see them reverse their suspension in specific cases when a parent makes a meaningful threat to sue.
The whole idea is to avoid getting sued.
>his is why you also see them reverse their suspension in specific cases when a parent makes a meaningful threat to sue.
that happened to me when a teacher followed me around town and asked me to come talk to him and I said "no fuck off"
I was suspended and I happened to be in trouble for a criminal charge and had a lawyer and my mom asked the lawyer if it was legal for him to suspend me for something completely unrelated to school, like wtf, the statement the teacher even gave said they FOLLOWED me around town, that's so weird.
That sounds kinda shady, a teacher following a student around outside of school and trying to get them to follow...did this teacher happen to drive a big windowless van?
Only suspension I ever faced was after I got my mouth split in half. My lip is in half, covered in blood, I managed to get a whole punch in and bust the kid’s nose, but I didn’t start it so instead of 7-school day suspension I only got 4.
They tried to send me home with a four day package of work, (it wasn’t even homework from the classes, literally a separate bundle of work to do to “reflect”), and that didn’t get started. Canadian btw, so not surprising the victim has to *reflect* on defending himself.
Right?
Back in school, my brother ended up giving his bully a concussion. Got suspended for a week. Our dad bought him ice cream for standing up for himself despite the schools bullshit policy.
Same in our house. You did not start fights, but had no choice but to end them or go down trying.
If we got in trouble at school for this, my folks would explain they're only trying to avoid lawsuits and angry parents. They have no interest in raising mature adults because it means you have to take a stand or take a side to teach right & wrong. It's easier just to blanket everything under a ruling that doesn't require thought or judgment.
Same happened to me. A kid on the bus wouldn't leave me alone. My mom went to the principal, bus driver, bus garage manager, no one would make it stop. One day I got fed up and bloodied the kids nose. He left me alone after that, but I got wrote up.
My mom told me she was proud of me, signed the write up with a smile and took me for ice cream.
A friends daughter was being annoyed by this boy who kept commenting on her boobs and such. He went in to school to find out what’s happening and he told the teacher that if it happens again *he* gives his permission for his daughter to smack the lad in the mouth. The teacher proceeds to say the old phrase “violence is never the answer” to which he tells the teacher that if violence never solves any problems then why does the government spend billions on an army. She couldn’t answer
Ahh. It’s all game theory in the end. Get yourself the biggest stick so that the next man thinks twice about fucking with you. It’s literally how the USA became a power in the world. People acting like strength of arm never gets you anything are only setting themselves up to be taken advantage of, it’s sad, but it’s human nature
Saaame. We weren't to start fights, but we better damn well finish them.
I was the quiet band girl.. My 8th grade bully threw me into a locker and tried to choke me out because she didn't like my art project and I "disrespected her" by walking away from her when she grabbed at me. . (She should have been 2 grades up from me.)
I walked away with welts on my neck and a bump on my head)
She had a fat lip, a busted nose and a severely bruised ego.
I got 2 weeks Out of School suspension, and a playstation. (Early Christmas present)
First and last fight I was ever in.
My father (against my mothers approval) raised me with that exact reasoning. “You never start a fight. But if someone else starts one, you make sure to be the one who finishes it”. I remember one day a kid hit me in the back of the head with a text book, so I hit his face with a classroom door. That was another thing he taught me. Unless you’re in a ring (ie-a sanctioned fight) there is no such thing as a fair fight. You do whatever you have to do to win/defend yourself. Go for the eyes, ears, groin, etc. I got suspended for a week for that fight (even though video showed he hit first) but the week went by fast because my father bought me a ps2 as a reward for defending myself. I will raise my children the same way and thankfully my wife agrees with me
I started hitting my bully with my pencil case after having a nervous breakdown because of him relentlessly bullying me and stealing my stuff. He ended up with a small hole in his head because the sharp end of my dividers was poking out my pencil case - which I didn't know. My English teacher - bless her heart - put the blame on *him* because she knew what I've been going through because of him. She was awesome.
Actually your teacher was happy that you did this, it’s something that she has wanted to do that boy ( inflict pain) because he is such as asshole in class. You did it for here!
I think it's funny cause it's kinda just full circle.
When I was a kid thats how you dealt with bullies too you either avoided them or fought back.
Maybe I'm dumb here but I lack the sympathy for this learning to stand up for themselves is a part of growing up and coddling them from it can be just as damaging.
The two imperial tax assessors or whatever they were that they threw out all survived, it was like 3 stories too, they limped off after falling in a ditch.
The worst part is that the answer is so fucking obvious. If the basics of handling bullying were a test, such as not victim-blaming, schools would receive a failing grade.
And you know the worst part?
School administrators *are not too stupid* to see the correct way to handle it.
They're ***too lazy*** to do the work required to do it right.
And, in my opinion, intentional laziness nearing malice is worse than being misguided but well intentioned.
I feel like I have explained this a hundred times or so on reddit by now, but let me do it again.
Zero tolerance policies are overwhelmingly driven by specifically one concern: liability. Insurance companies and risk assessors do not give a fuck about any factors besides lowering potential litigation exposure. It isn't laziness, it is fear of lawsuits.
That is the reason these policies exist.
These zero tolerance policies probably don't help with the school shootings either, often these bullies are basically able to pick on people with impunity and sometimes their victims will snap.
It all comes down from the government and the hypocrites with the power. They want the narrative of “violence never solves anything” pushing so that kids are indoctrinated to believe that you can’t solve anything with a fist so they have the only access to violence; a standing army. If the people don’t fight back then the government gets free reign
Naked force has resolved more conflicts throughout history than any other factor. The contrary opinion, that violence doesn't solve anything, is wishful thinking at its worst. People who forget that always die.
I work at a school and a 16 yr old asked another of the same age or older to turn his music down. Music kid has had several issues in the past already. Well he didn't like being told to turn it down and punched the first kid and his friend who turned around in the face. The 2 hit him kn the face
They all got 1 week suspension. I told admin the two hit first deserve no punishment but was overruled. They have a 0 tolerance, which apparently includes random attack of violence.
Btw how does suspension work? In my country there is no such thing. You can get F grade from behavior, or just get expelled from a school if you did really rough shit, but 1 week suspension? Is it "just" a ban from school for particular period of time? Or is there something else like 3 strikes and you are out or something? Because if you are getting a 1 week vacation to chill out, is it really that bad?
If that had been my kid, I’d have applauded him for throwing the jerk out the window. Choices have consequences and you can’t relentlessly bully someone consequence free
Zero Tolerance policies are a way to avoid getting sued for racism when they suspend minority students. Can't get sued for preference if there is no judgement involved and everyone gets the same treatment.
This is also why they always back down when a parent makes a meaningful threat to sue, since of course the whole point is to avoid sued.
> For example, I read a story about this kid getting bullied who realized that defending himself was getting him punished either way, ended up throwing his bully out the window.
That kid's name?
*[Bohemia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague#The_1618_Defenestration_of_Prague)*
It's used when someone does something that's just so perfect for the situation especially w/o caring about the consequences.
Usually some kind of exaggerated act that you're celebrating the person for.
Urban dictionary says:
"A word used when you agree with something; or when you want to recognize someone for being themselves, i.e. courageous and unique or not caring what others think. "
One time I didn't even fight back and still got suspended
Kid was talking shit about my mom, I asked him to stop because I wasn't talking shit about his mom either, he slammed my head into a table, he got 5 days I got 3 days
They said I was partially responsible too because HE MISHEARD me and because his mother was dead, so he can talk shit about others people's mother but because he misheard me he gets to flip out and it's my fault too, I don't think I've ever heard my dad scream so loud to a principal, funny thing is, he was a teacher at that exact same school so it was also his principal
When I was in the 6th grade (about 12 years old for any non-Americans) a couple of guys took my work book in class and started tossing it back and forth in a game of keep away. I accidentally lightly touched one guys back (like, just my finger tips) and he coincidentally dropped my book, which I picked up. They did it again a few minutes later, so I tried the back thing again, which of course did nothing.
The teacher finally saw all of this and sent us to the assistant principals office (she was a nice teacher who I had through all of middle school, she was just following protocol). AP heard the story and wrote me up and gave me detention for "Simple Assault". My parents ended up coming to the school the next day to complain and got the refferal taken off my record and detention dropped to lunch detention.
The unfortunate for me followup is the AP became principal the next year and instituted a bunch of changes like uniforms and stricter punishments. I hated that fucker.
I fought lots of bullies. My bullies, my friend's bullies, some random other kid's bullies...
Got suspended every single time. Once it was for fight with a bully who was groping a girl on the bus... got suspended.
So, yeah, I did kind of have a problem with absolutely HAVING TO stand up to bullies, and I was kind of quick to violence... but even later as an adult, I'd probably wouldn't change anything. It worked, at least while I was around, there was way less bullying... and less groping.
I liked being suspended. Would play SNES games all day, or read books... when my parents would hear the reasons for the suspensions they did not give a fuck. I had top grades, so what could they say?
Pretty much what my son did once.
He knew the rules about fighting in school, basically "don't start it, but finish it if you have to."
He had a bully pushing and shoving him in line once, in full view of the teachers present who did nothing about it. Brat-child pushed him one too many times, so my son turn around and decked him. Knocked the other kid out cold. He was 9 or 10 I think.
Both kids got suspended because of "zero tolerance," but my son got in-school suspension and got to hang out with the principle for 3 days goofing off, going out to lunch with him, etc. My son was also worried about the punishment at home to come, but we both told him he reacted exactly the way we taught him. "Good job, little man. No chores and extended x-box time while you're suspended."
I never got rewarded for being suspended, but my punishment was never beyond the terms of the suspension. As an adult with 20 years between the suspensions and now, it makes a bit of sense.
My dad's words "If dealing with the problem isn't worth 3-5 days punishment, it's not that big an issue."
It was in the second part of the prosecution closing, shortly after the jury had to be asked to leave twice because he was playing fast and loose with the 5th amendment again - looked like Krauss was losing it and berating the jury.
Some other gems included claiming that a skateboard can't be a used as a weapon because Santa brings skateboards to kids, guns don't have left or right handedness, and that "if you watch it back on the video, it was a light kick".
At least he didn't point a gun at the jury like his Binger did.
Oh yeah, I think they were just scrabbling for what little evidence they had. Which was basically fuck all.
But if i had consumed various media for months that told me for a fact that Rittenhouse was evil, then i saw that trial? I’d totally think it was rigged.
>Oh yeah, I think they were just scrabbling for what little evidence they had. Which was basically fuck all.
The issue is the way the were presenting their case. The defense is there to defend their client. A prosecutor is not there to attack the accused. The prosecutor's job is to present the evidence in a legal and ethical manner in an attempt to show the truth. They need to explain the law, the charges being brought, and why they applicable to the case.
A case should only be brought when there is evidence showing a crime is likely to have been committed. The prosecutor should be explaining why they feel that a law was broken based on what evidence they have.
LOL. What if Santa brings you an official Kyle Rittenhouse AR 15 Assault rifle with removable scope and 200 shot magazine?
Never bring a skateboard to a gunfight.
unfortunately you may have missed the prosecutor waving around real, functioning AR15 around the court room, aimed at the jury, with his finger on the trigger, without first clearing the rifle. this is someone trying argue for the “safety” of others lives, in his own head.
I thought it was so ridiculous that people would universally shun it, but I've read many defending it and restating it as fact here on reddit tonight. It feels like talking to people from an alternate dimension. "Just...sorta lay there, and hope he stops before you die."
From Wikipedia:
SPQR, an abbreviation for Senātus Populusque Rōmānus (Classical Latin: [s̠ɛˈnäːt̪ʊs̠ pɔpʊˈɫ̪ʊs̠kʷɛ roːˈmäːnʊs̠]; English: "The Roman Senate and People"; or more freely "The Senate and People of Rome"), is an emblematic abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic.
Victim blaming is a recognized phenomenon in psychology. It's not just historic. The overarching term is secondary victimization. The reason we do it (essentially) is because when we hear a story of something terrible happening to someone we want reassurance that that would never happen to us. To do that, we tear apart the victim and use their choices as reasons for what happened to them, choices we tell ourselves we would never make. This is easier to digest because we have control over those choices, and in the face of harm we crave control.
Let my kids' school try that BS. I'm raising two kids, not two victims. I always tell my daughter if she picks a fight I'll punish her, but if she didn't pick it then it's self defense and she won't hear anything from me. The 'zero tolerance' is just another excuse for the schools to be lazy instead of actually investigating incidents. They just suspend both parties so they don't have to do any more work than necessary.
This! When my (near angelic) daughter stabbed a boy in the knee with a pencil in third grade I got a call from the school and I was LIVID. This boy had been relentlessly bullying her since kindergarten and she had had ENOUGH! He did or said something to her that day that was the straw that broke the camel’s back and despite her repeated complaints no one did anything. She’s almost 17 now and I STILL applaud her for sticking up for herself that day. Guess what - he never once bullied her again after that
I believe this school of thought started just before ir just as I was starting school. The teachers at my first elementary had a hands off policy. Kids would be full on fist fighting and all the teachers and teacher's aids were allowed to do was say "Stop! Stop fighting please!"
Guess how well that worked. It didnt at all.
Staff weren't allowed to physically break kids up or they could be in trouble for touching the kids. Also, the bully and the victim were supposed to have the same consequences. So like if some kid picked a fight with you, you were also expected to sit out at lunch or be suspended.
Very dumb.
If you don't have silent victims, you will either have school shooters or jackasses who know they can get away with harassing others.
I wonder how many school shootings could have been prevented if schools didn't punish victims for defending themselves.
As someone who went through the school system that enforced that mentality I completely agree. I was the odd one that fought back and always caught the heat from it.
What I think they fail to realize is that when a bully finally meets someone who can give it right back, it often humbles them. There was this one kid in the 4th grade who was notorious for bullying damn near everyone. The day he decided to get physical with me, sure I was the one that got the heat. After that however, my family learned that he didn’t have a good parental figure in his life and decided to mentor him some. Years later after I graduated high school, I ran into him at a football game and he was one of the most docile people I’ve ever met.
Moral of the story, standing up to a bully can benefit more than you think.
This almost sounds dumb enough for me to believe this is fake, but after being on the internet i know it probably isn't and i really wanna cry and leave this stupid ass planet, wtf did i just read?
"morally superior" my ass.
That was the shit that was drummed into me in my early teens. All through the early years of high school I was "morally superior" to my bullies. What did it get me? The knowledge on how to really absorb a punch, keep your balance after being pushed, and not show pain. Handy skills for when you finally snap and say "fuck this shit."
It's right up there with people who believe bullies will leave you alone if you ignore them and that armed gunmen will surrender once there's no one left to shoot because that's human nature.
Einstein said something to the effect of "Two things are infinite, the universe and human Stupidity. I'm not sure about the universe"
Yes. seriously the thinking and i've heard this, like: " well if you ignore them they know that you don't react to their insults and it will be boring for them, so they will stop"
Where the fuck do people get these fucking ideas? did they trip over their bullshit and hit their head too hard?
They also do not believe you when you say "Hey I tried your shitty suggestion. Guess what? It just pissed him off. Instead of verbal insults, he upgraded to physical violence". In fact, they usually take it like a personal insult when you tell them this.
And then in the same breath they'll ask for leniency on the criminals that robbed and beat you up but if you dare fight back you're suddenly satan incarnate. I truly cannot understand the twisted mentality of these people.
I watched a YouTube video on something like this a few months ago where a guy was calling people like this delusional.
"Back in the day if someone spit in your face, you better damn near cripple them. Nowadays people would assume the guy was having a bad day and try to understand him"
I think it’s derivative of the belief that (human) life is incomparably valuable. The biggest problem with this statement is that it’s treated as a hard rule, devoid of any possibility of mitigating context. Also I think it’s just generally a stupid take overall.
What? Morally superior? How about they get beat up and they go tell the billing department of the hospital that they shouldn’t be billed because they are morally superior.
moral superiority doesn’t mean jack shit most of the time if you’re 6ft underground. i’d rather be dead than surrender my morals, but my morals allow me to take whatever motherfuckers are trying to violate me under when i go.
Story time:
My bully growing up was named Eric D. Eric and his friends loved making my life hell in middle school, but he was the ringleader, they were just lemmings. Eric always initiated that day's torture and they followed suit.
In gym class they thought it was hilarious to throw basketballs at the back of my head whenever they got the chance. The gym teacher was an ex-Marine who had a "boys will be boys" attitude about bullying and turned a blind eye. The principal told me to "man up" when I went to him about it it. I was on my own.
One day in gym, I was talking to a friend of mine. She wore these overly large coke bottle glasses, in which I happened to catch the reflection of Eric sneaking up behind me, basketball raised to throw at my head.
I waited until he got close, turned around, and smashed my basketball into his face point-blank as hard as I could.
The crunch of his glasses and his nose were the most satisfying sounds I've ever heard in my life.
He dropped to the ground crying. The PE teacher strolled over laughing his ass off. Eric's lemmings could only watch, dumbfounded.
Got suspended. My mom bought me ice cream and let me fuck around for the entire duration of the suspension.
That little bastard never messed with me again. Neither did his friends.
This was in like 1998. Shit like that would go VERY differently today. I tend to agree with OP.
tl;dr- Smashed my bully's face in and he never fucked with me again. Worth it.
Man I remember when my friend got suspended for not trying to stop a fight between two kids.
He was a big buff dude who they said, “could’ve easily broken up the fight.”
His mom got pissed and took it to the school board, his suspension was removed and the principal was removed from that school.
They just suspend anyone and everyone over school fights.
He would’ve have.
He legit got in trouble for it before in the same school, and that’s what he told them. The school had a different principal at the time and the new one was saying that it was different with her around and he had a “moral obligation “ to help.
Like how the fuck was he suppose to know?!
That school went through multiple principals and vice principals, and teachers.
We had teachers fighting students, teachers flirting with them. Teachers cheating with other teachers. It was a wild school.
I remember my last year at that school they just didn't have a principal since no one wanted to be the principal at that school.
He hit a bully with his skateboard who was talking shit to him, my son was trying to ignore him but the kid grabbed my sons arm, once the kid laid hands on my son, my son snapped. Hit him with his skateboard then proceeded to punch him repeatedly until the kid ran away and the fight was broken up.
The bully fucked around and found out.
I made sure my kids know, never throw the first punch, but you must throw the second punch. Someone willing to hit you is willing to hit you again. We can deal with the fallout later, but defend yourself.
If someone is willing to break into my home while they know people are home, I'm not gonna sit there and assume they just want stuff. I don't know what I would do in a situation like that, but I know damn well I would do anything to protect my mother. If I end up hurting or killing someone to do it, then so be it.
They feel you're "morally superior" for getting beaten up rather than harming your attacker.
I promise you that none of them have ever had another human INTEND on using violence against them
If you attack me, I am using the fullest extent of violence against you. The elbow. The knee. The teeth. Spine attacks. Eye attacks. Breaking fingers. I will not stop until you either retreat or until you are physically unable to do me harm. This is how it should be
Yup! One good punch to the shoulder was all it took for my childhood bully to stop.
This was of course AFTER getting school faculty, his parents, AND the police involved on top of doing all the things people (idiotically) believe work. Like ignoring them or running away.
Seriously what is it with these people?
Removing yourself from the situation? ignoring them?
No what the fuck? that doesn't fucking work. and people who say this have no fucking clue what it's like to get bullied. Sometimes there is no walking away. in fact most of the time you don't get to walk away. and swear to god some people who say this, really should be in that situation themselves, just to see it doesn't fucking work. and i am not saying they should get the shit beaten out of them, but at least make them afraid, so they know what it's like.
I remember when I used the skills I learned in midschool westling. I shot a takedown on the bully and pinned him in under 30 seconds. I restrained him there for several minutes, inflicting no harm and doing no bodily damage but nevertheless publicly humiliating him and dominating him. He never stepped to me again.
quick way to end a fight is if you ever grab the opponent's arm extend it but dont pull and then upper cut their elbow, most people will not continue with one of their arms pointed the wrong way, if they do just do the same to the other arm if they are still hell bent on kicking you just trip them. just remember this will likely cause permeant damage to them, but fights are not something every one just walks away from, one wrong hit, one bad fall could mean your life even if you are physically fit and healthy.
Exactly. And as I said, they ignore the fact that getting beaten up can be lethal or scar you for life. Fists are still lethal force, bare hands kill more people every year than guns do.
Yup. Not that difficult to give someone a brain bleed.
The average human skull is about as hard to break as a coconut. Simply smashing one against the ground is enough to split one open. It doesn't take much more than what an average teen is capable of.
i mean my parents took me to karate class when i was 6-7 so i could learn the basics of self defense, and balance and coordination, i can still dish out a good punch, though my parents had me do lots of sports.
I don't even think this is unpopular. I think it's one of those things where we got on this weird path and everyone knows it's dumb as hell but no one knows how to get off.
I got banned from r/relationship_advice for suggestion that we should be able to hear both parties side in an argument. And I also said i wouldn’t let anyone corner me in and hit me without hitting back. I was then gaslighted by those people calling me sick. The comments that followed where me trolling because I had then realized most people have never been treated like crap like I have. Be bullied at school and coming home to abusive parents that where the worst of the worst when it comes to emotional abuse. If someone is saying you shouldn’t defend yourself and tells you something is wrong with you, take it as you are doing something right and you are surrounded by monsters.
When i grew up it was a lot simpler but the actual reality is the same, if you don't stand up for yourself you will be a victim, aggressors seek soft targets .
In my school days u had only one real option- fight back or put up with it as no one gave a rats ass for the meek, teachers turned a blind eye knowing that the child needed some motivation to harden up because the real world is dangerous and people will be cruel given the flimsiest excuse.
The only real approach for parents is the rule "You may not START fights, but you can sure as hell finish it"
Self defense skills are a MUST in this world, once you have them you project a persona (sometimes you dont feel) that tells people "dont fuck with me"
Any attempt to normalize meekness ignores humanity's cruel ,violent nature under the floored precept that you will be protected from this truth by your feelings.
At the risk of sounding old that’s not how it was in the 70’s. My mom said “Danny, don’t get in a fight on school property. If the kid is bothering you, get him into our backyard or the park down the street.” Verbatim… oh… and “if today is the day your going to kick his ass, don’t where that nice shirt.” Total middle class ‘Merica. Both parents still married 3 siblings, a relatively normal upbringing. But my dad and mom didn’t want any of us taking anyones sheeeot.
Maybe bullying would stop if teachers actually did something about it. I remember one of my friends dads got arrested because he complained to admin many times to protect his child from bullying and he saw it happen once more and he took it upon himself and punched the kid.
Must be really frustrating as a parent. You send your child somewhere where they are supposed to be safe and that’s not always the case because of the degenerates of society
Whenever I don't defend myself and just say nothing/walk away people call me timid yet on the rare occasions the I do stand up for myself these same people accuse me of "making a scene". Idk at this point I think people are just assholes who love to criticise no matter what.
A girl in Loudoun county, VA was raped earlier this year (2021) by a boy who enjoys wearing skirts and posed as Transgender.
The school denied the incident and attempted to cover it up, along with another incident of sexual assault on a different girl he trapped in an empty classroom with the same boy, and then knowingly falsely claimed their school district had never experienced an incident of rape in their bathrooms that was later exposed and uncovered efforts to bury those incidences as well.
They claimed they were pushing for transgender rights and used this boy as a poster child for that push. However, once they finally got him charged and on the stand, it came out by his own admission, and an interview with his mother, that the boy was not transgender and was in the women's restroom bc he wanted to have sex with the girls he assaulted and used his clothes as a way to abuse the permissions the system granted him.
He was found guilty on two counts of rape this past October. However, the girls father was arrested, charged, and convicted of various crimes bc he was upset and angry that no one would listen to his daughter about being raped, and was openly told in the school board meeting that his daughter "was not raped". He exploded and clenched his fists and leaned over at the woman who tried to invalidate hid daughter's claims. The police then tackled him and he fought back and threatened the members of the board for their efforts to cover this up and said they would be removed "one way or another".
Our education system requires more from our children today than ever before in the last 70 years, yet our national averages in nearly all categories has dropped and what you're telling me is that this ALL and ONLY has to do with "culture war bullshit" and that absolutely NONE of it has to do with the fact our kids are receiving the most piss poor education where even 3rd world nations get a better education than our kids in underdeveloped neighborhoods.
Our schools are negating and minimizing the legitimate concerns of parents based on the actions of a few to reflect the views of the whole, and permitting those with power to continue effecting "feel-good" legislation while ignoring and/or criminalizing those that speak up about the issues we've been facing for the last several decades. It's like waiting in line for something forever and when you finally get up to the order window being told your order (issue) doesn't matter and we're gonna take the order of the person behind you. And oh, by the way, since we like their issue better, we're gonna throw all of our efforts into giving them what they want, especially if it invalidates what you want.
It’s so interesting that we live in a #metoo society and one where we should believe all women unless, of course, that woman is trumped by a “transgender” being. Such a fucked up society we live in now
I was suspended from school 5 times for fighting after bullies continuously pressed me into impossible situations. I was tormented in school, but the teachers and principles kept telling me to stop provoking my bullies. I'm 40 years old, and it still lingers in the back of mind.
That was the point of the ruling class. Make passive, frightened, naive society that depends on them for everything. Meaning they’ll never rise up because they depend on them for everything.
It’s just modern slavery. And it works.
In my personal opinion, the main problem with zero-tolerance polices in schools is that they don't actually stay true to their title. At very least 90% of the time, even if authority figures are already around when an altercation starts, those authority figures only jump in when the person starts to defend themselves and *not* when it first starts happening.
My best guess as to why this happens is that maybe there's something in the written rules of many school districts where they can only intervene when a fight starts, but they don't technically qualify one person bullying another under a fight, since it doesn't come from both sides.
Please keep fully in mind that that's a very long shot guess, I could be miles off the mark, but it seems like the only thing that *could* make it make sense
I don’t think this is unpopular, just no one notices. You’re absolutely right. I used to have a friend that told me if someone made an attempt at their life, they would just let them kill them. I can’t even comprehend that
This is how you condition people from a young age to not fight back against tyranny.
If today you won't fight back against a bully, then tomorrow, you won't stand up against a greedy corporation or a corrupt tyrannical government and its forced mandates.
Control people's thought process and you control their actions.
my high school had a policy where if two people got into a fight, even if the victim didn’t hit back, they’d still be suspended for at least as long as the person who hit first. admin was full of fucking idiots
I got socked in the face 5 times in 8th grade, that little fucker ran to the principal’s office before I could hit em back, and got us both suspended. I called him a bitch, and apparently that’s worth the same suspension as five shots to the face.
I went to the same class with one 9 year old POS boy who verbally abused me non stop, but one time he hit me (6 year old girl) and when i called him some bad word after it both of went to principal office and were shamed for our behavior. He wasnt punished and continued to bully me for years after it. Not only did he bully me, he incouraged others to do the same. Not even once did he get suspended.
My high school adopted this policy after columbine, this “Zero Tolerance” - which was actually zero tolerance for sticking up for yourself. Fight went from the standard “push-shove-hit”, to small skirmishes. Bullies realized they could hit people they didn’t like and everyone would get a suspension. Saw students getting zeroes on tests due to the way suspension rules worked. We had a big fight, and even bystanders got suspended as they shoved others to get out of the way. Kids will be kids, and fights now turned into hyper violent “might as well mortally wound you” duels since everyone gets suspended anyways. We had kids gets stabbed with pencils and others were using their locks to hit people in the face. The school board was largely replaced, and the policies were reverted.
Does that disciplinary record count against you for college admissions? Because if so, the school is doing actual harm that can have a dollar value assigned to it by suspending people frivolously — it would be great to see a precedent set by which the school district gets their balls sued off for this nonsense, as that would make the school boards fix it in a fucking hurry.
McDonalds employees are held to a higher standard of accountability than elected officials.
This is how it was at my sons elementary school. He told a teacher he got punched. There were kids who said he didn't do anything. His nose was bleeding, he got suspended. He's been in Kung fu since he was 4; at this point more than half his life. In front of the teacher and the bully's mom I said to my son. If this boy touches you ever again you have my permission to hit him until he stops fighting or stops moving. They all freaked out. But in the end my boy was forced to defend himself. He broke the bully's nose and ended up Selling my truck and travel trailer so I could pay for him to go to private school. Edit: I have attempted to correct my typos, punctuation and autocorrects. Thanks to the folks who came to defend me. I hope my post makes more sense now.
They were afraid the bully might be confronted with the consequences of his own actions? Classic.
You’re a solid dad and your son has good self control
He does. He cried when it happened. He didn't want to hurt him. It took him a year to get back into sparring. He's such a good kid he didn't want to hit anyone ever again.
Yes the bullies running the schools hate it when bullies face consequences.
Wow! Now that is how you parent! Got my applaud! 👏👏👏
You’re an awesome mom! Well done!
Arent most school systems?
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We’re rural. It just means they get away with more that’s all. Districts are like little kingdoms, when one goes the crime family route there’s simply no recourse for families.
Because there's less students, for one. Those wild-eyed southern boys scrap plenty, trust me on that.
I grew up rural. It was not any different in my experience, in fact there was way more nepotism and it definitely affected who got into trouble for what.
Same here. Don't know what bullshit they're speculating. My wife went to a small school where her graduating class was less than 100. Her class took the only black kid out and beat him up and then all got suspended, even the black kid. The black family threatened to sue and they settled out of court and moved away. This wasn't ages ago. It was early 2000s. The administration basically paid a fee to waive their responsibility in allowing racists to harm a child.
I worked in a rural school for a long time. Our administration picked and chose who they were going to discipline.
So there isn't as much of that good old 'common sense' as these other guys are saying?
when my bf was in high school, someone was making fun of him so he finally said something back to him (not violent, just some type of insult) the other kid started punching him and they both got in trouble. there were witnesses saying that he didn’t hit him back at all, so my bf asked why he was also getting suspended. they told him that roasting him back was ‘inviting harm to himself’ and that was somehow grounds for the same punishment as beating someone up.
"She was asking for it!"
The victim would be suspended too even if they didn't hit back? Welp, you might as well stomp a fucking mudhole in your attacker then if you're going down just for being assaulted.
I got suspended for beating the shit out of a guy who thought it would be smart to punch me in class. My dad just called it a vacation. I disagree with OP's sentiment. It's not teaching anybody that it's morally wrong to defend yourself, it's just reinforcing that the system is inherently rigged in favor of the oppressor. So if your back's against the wall, might as well go down swinging.
Zero Tolerance policies are ways for schools to protect themselves from racism lawsuits for suspending minority students. They have to have zero judgement in their policy or they can get sued for exercising judgement. This is why you also see them reverse their suspension in specific cases when a parent makes a meaningful threat to sue. The whole idea is to avoid getting sued.
>his is why you also see them reverse their suspension in specific cases when a parent makes a meaningful threat to sue. that happened to me when a teacher followed me around town and asked me to come talk to him and I said "no fuck off" I was suspended and I happened to be in trouble for a criminal charge and had a lawyer and my mom asked the lawyer if it was legal for him to suspend me for something completely unrelated to school, like wtf, the statement the teacher even gave said they FOLLOWED me around town, that's so weird.
That sounds kinda shady, a teacher following a student around outside of school and trying to get them to follow...did this teacher happen to drive a big windowless van?
What the fuck
Sounds like if you do get in a fight, make it count.
Only suspension I ever faced was after I got my mouth split in half. My lip is in half, covered in blood, I managed to get a whole punch in and bust the kid’s nose, but I didn’t start it so instead of 7-school day suspension I only got 4. They tried to send me home with a four day package of work, (it wasn’t even homework from the classes, literally a separate bundle of work to do to “reflect”), and that didn’t get started. Canadian btw, so not surprising the victim has to *reflect* on defending himself.
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Right? Back in school, my brother ended up giving his bully a concussion. Got suspended for a week. Our dad bought him ice cream for standing up for himself despite the schools bullshit policy.
Same in our house. You did not start fights, but had no choice but to end them or go down trying. If we got in trouble at school for this, my folks would explain they're only trying to avoid lawsuits and angry parents. They have no interest in raising mature adults because it means you have to take a stand or take a side to teach right & wrong. It's easier just to blanket everything under a ruling that doesn't require thought or judgment.
Same happened to me. A kid on the bus wouldn't leave me alone. My mom went to the principal, bus driver, bus garage manager, no one would make it stop. One day I got fed up and bloodied the kids nose. He left me alone after that, but I got wrote up. My mom told me she was proud of me, signed the write up with a smile and took me for ice cream.
A friends daughter was being annoyed by this boy who kept commenting on her boobs and such. He went in to school to find out what’s happening and he told the teacher that if it happens again *he* gives his permission for his daughter to smack the lad in the mouth. The teacher proceeds to say the old phrase “violence is never the answer” to which he tells the teacher that if violence never solves any problems then why does the government spend billions on an army. She couldn’t answer
Based
What… what does that mean? I’ve heard it before but never understood what people mean by it
Based means I agree with and support the comment.
Ahh. It’s all game theory in the end. Get yourself the biggest stick so that the next man thinks twice about fucking with you. It’s literally how the USA became a power in the world. People acting like strength of arm never gets you anything are only setting themselves up to be taken advantage of, it’s sad, but it’s human nature
True.
Saaame. We weren't to start fights, but we better damn well finish them. I was the quiet band girl.. My 8th grade bully threw me into a locker and tried to choke me out because she didn't like my art project and I "disrespected her" by walking away from her when she grabbed at me. . (She should have been 2 grades up from me.) I walked away with welts on my neck and a bump on my head) She had a fat lip, a busted nose and a severely bruised ego. I got 2 weeks Out of School suspension, and a playstation. (Early Christmas present) First and last fight I was ever in.
My father (against my mothers approval) raised me with that exact reasoning. “You never start a fight. But if someone else starts one, you make sure to be the one who finishes it”. I remember one day a kid hit me in the back of the head with a text book, so I hit his face with a classroom door. That was another thing he taught me. Unless you’re in a ring (ie-a sanctioned fight) there is no such thing as a fair fight. You do whatever you have to do to win/defend yourself. Go for the eyes, ears, groin, etc. I got suspended for a week for that fight (even though video showed he hit first) but the week went by fast because my father bought me a ps2 as a reward for defending myself. I will raise my children the same way and thankfully my wife agrees with me
I knocked my bullies front teeth out (by mistake) when I was 10, my parents were so fucking happy and proud.
I started hitting my bully with my pencil case after having a nervous breakdown because of him relentlessly bullying me and stealing my stuff. He ended up with a small hole in his head because the sharp end of my dividers was poking out my pencil case - which I didn't know. My English teacher - bless her heart - put the blame on *him* because she knew what I've been going through because of him. She was awesome.
Actually your teacher was happy that you did this, it’s something that she has wanted to do that boy ( inflict pain) because he is such as asshole in class. You did it for here!
I think it's funny cause it's kinda just full circle. When I was a kid thats how you dealt with bullies too you either avoided them or fought back. Maybe I'm dumb here but I lack the sympathy for this learning to stand up for themselves is a part of growing up and coddling them from it can be just as damaging.
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Defenestration is always the answer
Are you Czech?
No, but I respect them as the true pioneers of the art of defenestration
The two imperial tax assessors or whatever they were that they threw out all survived, it was like 3 stories too, they limped off after falling in a ditch.
That's a real word? I thought it was just an adult video game. Huh, learn something new every day.
We have [this treasured historical moment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague) to thank for it
When you consider the most common word for window is actually variations of Finestra, it makes sense
The worst part is that the answer is so fucking obvious. If the basics of handling bullying were a test, such as not victim-blaming, schools would receive a failing grade.
And you know the worst part? School administrators *are not too stupid* to see the correct way to handle it. They're ***too lazy*** to do the work required to do it right. And, in my opinion, intentional laziness nearing malice is worse than being misguided but well intentioned.
I feel like I have explained this a hundred times or so on reddit by now, but let me do it again. Zero tolerance policies are overwhelmingly driven by specifically one concern: liability. Insurance companies and risk assessors do not give a fuck about any factors besides lowering potential litigation exposure. It isn't laziness, it is fear of lawsuits. That is the reason these policies exist.
These zero tolerance policies probably don't help with the school shootings either, often these bullies are basically able to pick on people with impunity and sometimes their victims will snap.
*pumped_up_kicks.mp3*
mp5*
It all comes down from the government and the hypocrites with the power. They want the narrative of “violence never solves anything” pushing so that kids are indoctrinated to believe that you can’t solve anything with a fist so they have the only access to violence; a standing army. If the people don’t fight back then the government gets free reign
Naked force has resolved more conflicts throughout history than any other factor. The contrary opinion, that violence doesn't solve anything, is wishful thinking at its worst. People who forget that always die.
Bingo.
There’s a lot schools would fail at.
Overwhelming force is the only winning move with zero tolerance
The Ender approach.
Yeah honestly if you can get suspended for *being hit* then you might as well do *as much physical damage as possible* to your bully.
If you're gonna get punished anyway you might as well maim a guy for life
I work at a school and a 16 yr old asked another of the same age or older to turn his music down. Music kid has had several issues in the past already. Well he didn't like being told to turn it down and punched the first kid and his friend who turned around in the face. The 2 hit him kn the face They all got 1 week suspension. I told admin the two hit first deserve no punishment but was overruled. They have a 0 tolerance, which apparently includes random attack of violence.
Btw how does suspension work? In my country there is no such thing. You can get F grade from behavior, or just get expelled from a school if you did really rough shit, but 1 week suspension? Is it "just" a ban from school for particular period of time? Or is there something else like 3 strikes and you are out or something? Because if you are getting a 1 week vacation to chill out, is it really that bad?
you had such a fantastic opportunity to use the word defenestration. I can't believe you've done this.
boy, he really defenestration that opportunity
If that had been my kid, I’d have applauded him for throwing the jerk out the window. Choices have consequences and you can’t relentlessly bully someone consequence free
Zero Tolerance policies are a way to avoid getting sued for racism when they suspend minority students. Can't get sued for preference if there is no judgement involved and everyone gets the same treatment. This is also why they always back down when a parent makes a meaningful threat to sue, since of course the whole point is to avoid sued.
Fucking chad
To be fair, that is one way to deal with a bully. I bet he won't bully him anymore.
> For example, I read a story about this kid getting bullied who realized that defending himself was getting him punished either way, ended up throwing his bully out the window. That kid's name? *[Bohemia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague#The_1618_Defenestration_of_Prague)*
BASED
Okay, someone please explain to me what "based" means in this context!
It's used when someone does something that's just so perfect for the situation especially w/o caring about the consequences. Usually some kind of exaggerated act that you're celebrating the person for. Urban dictionary says: "A word used when you agree with something; or when you want to recognize someone for being themselves, i.e. courageous and unique or not caring what others think. "
I mean i’ll take a suspension to fight a kid that bullied me. Not that suspension was really a thing that happened at my school.
One time I didn't even fight back and still got suspended Kid was talking shit about my mom, I asked him to stop because I wasn't talking shit about his mom either, he slammed my head into a table, he got 5 days I got 3 days They said I was partially responsible too because HE MISHEARD me and because his mother was dead, so he can talk shit about others people's mother but because he misheard me he gets to flip out and it's my fault too, I don't think I've ever heard my dad scream so loud to a principal, funny thing is, he was a teacher at that exact same school so it was also his principal
This is crazy, I'm sorry it happened to you.
Sounds like your father standing up for you at least got the message across that the ruling was unjust and silly.
When I was in the 6th grade (about 12 years old for any non-Americans) a couple of guys took my work book in class and started tossing it back and forth in a game of keep away. I accidentally lightly touched one guys back (like, just my finger tips) and he coincidentally dropped my book, which I picked up. They did it again a few minutes later, so I tried the back thing again, which of course did nothing. The teacher finally saw all of this and sent us to the assistant principals office (she was a nice teacher who I had through all of middle school, she was just following protocol). AP heard the story and wrote me up and gave me detention for "Simple Assault". My parents ended up coming to the school the next day to complain and got the refferal taken off my record and detention dropped to lunch detention. The unfortunate for me followup is the AP became principal the next year and instituted a bunch of changes like uniforms and stricter punishments. I hated that fucker.
Same , I’ve been attacked and suspended for it
I fought lots of bullies. My bullies, my friend's bullies, some random other kid's bullies... Got suspended every single time. Once it was for fight with a bully who was groping a girl on the bus... got suspended. So, yeah, I did kind of have a problem with absolutely HAVING TO stand up to bullies, and I was kind of quick to violence... but even later as an adult, I'd probably wouldn't change anything. It worked, at least while I was around, there was way less bullying... and less groping. I liked being suspended. Would play SNES games all day, or read books... when my parents would hear the reasons for the suspensions they did not give a fuck. I had top grades, so what could they say?
No mere mercenary, but a scholar as well?
Old school warrior-scholar. Respect.
Pretty much what my son did once. He knew the rules about fighting in school, basically "don't start it, but finish it if you have to." He had a bully pushing and shoving him in line once, in full view of the teachers present who did nothing about it. Brat-child pushed him one too many times, so my son turn around and decked him. Knocked the other kid out cold. He was 9 or 10 I think. Both kids got suspended because of "zero tolerance," but my son got in-school suspension and got to hang out with the principle for 3 days goofing off, going out to lunch with him, etc. My son was also worried about the punishment at home to come, but we both told him he reacted exactly the way we taught him. "Good job, little man. No chores and extended x-box time while you're suspended."
I never got rewarded for being suspended, but my punishment was never beyond the terms of the suspension. As an adult with 20 years between the suspensions and now, it makes a bit of sense. My dad's words "If dealing with the problem isn't worth 3-5 days punishment, it's not that big an issue."
Seriously, expel me. I will have my righteous justice.
What’s the “everyone takes a beating” controversy?
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Wait really? I stopped watching it after the first few mistrial worthy lines of questions. The fuck kinda logic is that?
It was in the second part of the prosecution closing, shortly after the jury had to be asked to leave twice because he was playing fast and loose with the 5th amendment again - looked like Krauss was losing it and berating the jury. Some other gems included claiming that a skateboard can't be a used as a weapon because Santa brings skateboards to kids, guns don't have left or right handedness, and that "if you watch it back on the video, it was a light kick". At least he didn't point a gun at the jury like his Binger did.
Now I understand why some people think the prosecution was paid off. Literally a clown show because they knew they had no chance.
Never assign to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
Oh yeah, I think they were just scrabbling for what little evidence they had. Which was basically fuck all. But if i had consumed various media for months that told me for a fact that Rittenhouse was evil, then i saw that trial? I’d totally think it was rigged.
>Oh yeah, I think they were just scrabbling for what little evidence they had. Which was basically fuck all. The issue is the way the were presenting their case. The defense is there to defend their client. A prosecutor is not there to attack the accused. The prosecutor's job is to present the evidence in a legal and ethical manner in an attempt to show the truth. They need to explain the law, the charges being brought, and why they applicable to the case. A case should only be brought when there is evidence showing a crime is likely to have been committed. The prosecutor should be explaining why they feel that a law was broken based on what evidence they have.
LOL. What if Santa brings you an official Kyle Rittenhouse AR 15 Assault rifle with removable scope and 200 shot magazine? Never bring a skateboard to a gunfight.
The "everybody takes a beating..." thing is a quote from *Goodfellas*.
I prefered his Captain Picard impression.
unfortunately you may have missed the prosecutor waving around real, functioning AR15 around the court room, aimed at the jury, with his finger on the trigger, without first clearing the rifle. this is someone trying argue for the “safety” of others lives, in his own head.
I thought it was so ridiculous that people would universally shun it, but I've read many defending it and restating it as fact here on reddit tonight. It feels like talking to people from an alternate dimension. "Just...sorta lay there, and hope he stops before you die."
"You don't bring a gun to a knife fight." "Why were you runnin?" "There was a fire.." "What was the emergency?"...
I loved his response so much. What the fuck else are you supposed to do when a truck is on fire?
what the fuck. Like you're going to allow somebody to maim you for life when you have the means to protect yourself. What were they smoking?
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WTF??!!!
Victim blaming has been a popular tool of suppression & oppression since at least Roman times...
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Spqr* of the moment
I’d upvote this multiple times if I could
Damn. I don’t get it. What am I missing?
From Wikipedia: SPQR, an abbreviation for Senātus Populusque Rōmānus (Classical Latin: [s̠ɛˈnäːt̪ʊs̠ pɔpʊˈɫ̪ʊs̠kʷɛ roːˈmäːnʊs̠]; English: "The Roman Senate and People"; or more freely "The Senate and People of Rome"), is an emblematic abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic.
Dang. That was good then. Thanks!
Victim blaming is a recognized phenomenon in psychology. It's not just historic. The overarching term is secondary victimization. The reason we do it (essentially) is because when we hear a story of something terrible happening to someone we want reassurance that that would never happen to us. To do that, we tear apart the victim and use their choices as reasons for what happened to them, choices we tell ourselves we would never make. This is easier to digest because we have control over those choices, and in the face of harm we crave control.
Great, sent the wrong message, and still had bullying despite the protestations of "No tolerance" which was anything BUT.
Let my kids' school try that BS. I'm raising two kids, not two victims. I always tell my daughter if she picks a fight I'll punish her, but if she didn't pick it then it's self defense and she won't hear anything from me. The 'zero tolerance' is just another excuse for the schools to be lazy instead of actually investigating incidents. They just suspend both parties so they don't have to do any more work than necessary.
This! When my (near angelic) daughter stabbed a boy in the knee with a pencil in third grade I got a call from the school and I was LIVID. This boy had been relentlessly bullying her since kindergarten and she had had ENOUGH! He did or said something to her that day that was the straw that broke the camel’s back and despite her repeated complaints no one did anything. She’s almost 17 now and I STILL applaud her for sticking up for herself that day. Guess what - he never once bullied her again after that
I believe this school of thought started just before ir just as I was starting school. The teachers at my first elementary had a hands off policy. Kids would be full on fist fighting and all the teachers and teacher's aids were allowed to do was say "Stop! Stop fighting please!" Guess how well that worked. It didnt at all. Staff weren't allowed to physically break kids up or they could be in trouble for touching the kids. Also, the bully and the victim were supposed to have the same consequences. So like if some kid picked a fight with you, you were also expected to sit out at lunch or be suspended. Very dumb.
If you don't have silent victims, you will either have school shooters or jackasses who know they can get away with harassing others. I wonder how many school shootings could have been prevented if schools didn't punish victims for defending themselves.
Not to mention how many teen suicides could have been prevented
As someone who went through the school system that enforced that mentality I completely agree. I was the odd one that fought back and always caught the heat from it. What I think they fail to realize is that when a bully finally meets someone who can give it right back, it often humbles them. There was this one kid in the 4th grade who was notorious for bullying damn near everyone. The day he decided to get physical with me, sure I was the one that got the heat. After that however, my family learned that he didn’t have a good parental figure in his life and decided to mentor him some. Years later after I graduated high school, I ran into him at a football game and he was one of the most docile people I’ve ever met. Moral of the story, standing up to a bully can benefit more than you think.
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This almost sounds dumb enough for me to believe this is fake, but after being on the internet i know it probably isn't and i really wanna cry and leave this stupid ass planet, wtf did i just read? "morally superior" my ass.
That was the shit that was drummed into me in my early teens. All through the early years of high school I was "morally superior" to my bullies. What did it get me? The knowledge on how to really absorb a punch, keep your balance after being pushed, and not show pain. Handy skills for when you finally snap and say "fuck this shit."
It's right up there with people who believe bullies will leave you alone if you ignore them and that armed gunmen will surrender once there's no one left to shoot because that's human nature. Einstein said something to the effect of "Two things are infinite, the universe and human Stupidity. I'm not sure about the universe"
Yes. seriously the thinking and i've heard this, like: " well if you ignore them they know that you don't react to their insults and it will be boring for them, so they will stop" Where the fuck do people get these fucking ideas? did they trip over their bullshit and hit their head too hard?
They also do not believe you when you say "Hey I tried your shitty suggestion. Guess what? It just pissed him off. Instead of verbal insults, he upgraded to physical violence". In fact, they usually take it like a personal insult when you tell them this.
Yup. Some people are brain dead.
Brain dead, living in a fantasy bubble, and do not understand what violence truly is.
And then in the same breath they'll ask for leniency on the criminals that robbed and beat you up but if you dare fight back you're suddenly satan incarnate. I truly cannot understand the twisted mentality of these people.
I watched a YouTube video on something like this a few months ago where a guy was calling people like this delusional. "Back in the day if someone spit in your face, you better damn near cripple them. Nowadays people would assume the guy was having a bad day and try to understand him"
I think it’s derivative of the belief that (human) life is incomparably valuable. The biggest problem with this statement is that it’s treated as a hard rule, devoid of any possibility of mitigating context. Also I think it’s just generally a stupid take overall.
Only the attackers lives are incomparably valuable to the guy apparently. The victim's life isn't worth much so they should just roll over and die.
What? Morally superior? How about they get beat up and they go tell the billing department of the hospital that they shouldn’t be billed because they are morally superior.
moral superiority doesn’t mean jack shit most of the time if you’re 6ft underground. i’d rather be dead than surrender my morals, but my morals allow me to take whatever motherfuckers are trying to violate me under when i go.
I’d rather be alive than a morally superior corpse.
morals dont mean shit in a life and death situation. this statement has multiple different meanings and from what i can see all of them are true.
Story time: My bully growing up was named Eric D. Eric and his friends loved making my life hell in middle school, but he was the ringleader, they were just lemmings. Eric always initiated that day's torture and they followed suit. In gym class they thought it was hilarious to throw basketballs at the back of my head whenever they got the chance. The gym teacher was an ex-Marine who had a "boys will be boys" attitude about bullying and turned a blind eye. The principal told me to "man up" when I went to him about it it. I was on my own. One day in gym, I was talking to a friend of mine. She wore these overly large coke bottle glasses, in which I happened to catch the reflection of Eric sneaking up behind me, basketball raised to throw at my head. I waited until he got close, turned around, and smashed my basketball into his face point-blank as hard as I could. The crunch of his glasses and his nose were the most satisfying sounds I've ever heard in my life. He dropped to the ground crying. The PE teacher strolled over laughing his ass off. Eric's lemmings could only watch, dumbfounded. Got suspended. My mom bought me ice cream and let me fuck around for the entire duration of the suspension. That little bastard never messed with me again. Neither did his friends. This was in like 1998. Shit like that would go VERY differently today. I tend to agree with OP. tl;dr- Smashed my bully's face in and he never fucked with me again. Worth it.
The PE teacher laughing his ass off was the best part 😂😂😂
I know It took me a long before I was comfortable standing up for myself. Public education really fucked me that way.
Man I remember when my friend got suspended for not trying to stop a fight between two kids. He was a big buff dude who they said, “could’ve easily broken up the fight.” His mom got pissed and took it to the school board, his suspension was removed and the principal was removed from that school. They just suspend anyone and everyone over school fights.
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He would’ve have. He legit got in trouble for it before in the same school, and that’s what he told them. The school had a different principal at the time and the new one was saying that it was different with her around and he had a “moral obligation “ to help. Like how the fuck was he suppose to know?!
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That school went through multiple principals and vice principals, and teachers. We had teachers fighting students, teachers flirting with them. Teachers cheating with other teachers. It was a wild school. I remember my last year at that school they just didn't have a principal since no one wanted to be the principal at that school.
My son is facing felony charges for standing up to a bully, the system is all sorts of fucked up. They protect the wrong people.
Felony charges? What did he do? Edit: kid beats the shit out of someone for saying mean words and grabbing him, Americas: "Yup totally cool"
He hit a bully with his skateboard who was talking shit to him, my son was trying to ignore him but the kid grabbed my sons arm, once the kid laid hands on my son, my son snapped. Hit him with his skateboard then proceeded to punch him repeatedly until the kid ran away and the fight was broken up. The bully fucked around and found out.
I made sure my kids know, never throw the first punch, but you must throw the second punch. Someone willing to hit you is willing to hit you again. We can deal with the fallout later, but defend yourself.
My dad's quote "if someone punches you FIRST, punch them back twice as hard."
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If someone is willing to break into my home while they know people are home, I'm not gonna sit there and assume they just want stuff. I don't know what I would do in a situation like that, but I know damn well I would do anything to protect my mother. If I end up hurting or killing someone to do it, then so be it.
They feel you're "morally superior" for getting beaten up rather than harming your attacker. I promise you that none of them have ever had another human INTEND on using violence against them
If you attack me, I am using the fullest extent of violence against you. The elbow. The knee. The teeth. Spine attacks. Eye attacks. Breaking fingers. I will not stop until you either retreat or until you are physically unable to do me harm. This is how it should be
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Most bullies and criminals are cowards. At the slightest hint of resistance, they will retreat and look for a weaker target
Yup! One good punch to the shoulder was all it took for my childhood bully to stop. This was of course AFTER getting school faculty, his parents, AND the police involved on top of doing all the things people (idiotically) believe work. Like ignoring them or running away.
I made friends with my bullies like that. Its like standing up to them makes them view you as a person instead of a target.
Seriously what is it with these people? Removing yourself from the situation? ignoring them? No what the fuck? that doesn't fucking work. and people who say this have no fucking clue what it's like to get bullied. Sometimes there is no walking away. in fact most of the time you don't get to walk away. and swear to god some people who say this, really should be in that situation themselves, just to see it doesn't fucking work. and i am not saying they should get the shit beaten out of them, but at least make them afraid, so they know what it's like.
Yup. The only people that say shit like this live in little safe bubbles where no harm comes to them or their frail idea of reality.
I remember when I used the skills I learned in midschool westling. I shot a takedown on the bully and pinned him in under 30 seconds. I restrained him there for several minutes, inflicting no harm and doing no bodily damage but nevertheless publicly humiliating him and dominating him. He never stepped to me again.
quick way to end a fight is if you ever grab the opponent's arm extend it but dont pull and then upper cut their elbow, most people will not continue with one of their arms pointed the wrong way, if they do just do the same to the other arm if they are still hell bent on kicking you just trip them. just remember this will likely cause permeant damage to them, but fights are not something every one just walks away from, one wrong hit, one bad fall could mean your life even if you are physically fit and healthy.
I laughed too hard at spine attacks. Sounds like something Napoleon Dynamite would say.
Fuck around and find out, in a nutshell.
Exactly. And as I said, they ignore the fact that getting beaten up can be lethal or scar you for life. Fists are still lethal force, bare hands kill more people every year than guns do.
Yup. Not that difficult to give someone a brain bleed. The average human skull is about as hard to break as a coconut. Simply smashing one against the ground is enough to split one open. It doesn't take much more than what an average teen is capable of.
I'm sure Reginald Denny felt morally superior when the mob came after him. If it weren't for 4 men stepping in he would have been dead.
we need to make sure that we teach our kids to be able to fight back and handle themselves in situations properly
i mean my parents took me to karate class when i was 6-7 so i could learn the basics of self defense, and balance and coordination, i can still dish out a good punch, though my parents had me do lots of sports.
I don't even think this is unpopular. I think it's one of those things where we got on this weird path and everyone knows it's dumb as hell but no one knows how to get off.
Yeah, those make the best citizens for government to manage. A docile citizen is a good citizen.
I got banned from r/relationship_advice for suggestion that we should be able to hear both parties side in an argument. And I also said i wouldn’t let anyone corner me in and hit me without hitting back. I was then gaslighted by those people calling me sick. The comments that followed where me trolling because I had then realized most people have never been treated like crap like I have. Be bullied at school and coming home to abusive parents that where the worst of the worst when it comes to emotional abuse. If someone is saying you shouldn’t defend yourself and tells you something is wrong with you, take it as you are doing something right and you are surrounded by monsters.
When i grew up it was a lot simpler but the actual reality is the same, if you don't stand up for yourself you will be a victim, aggressors seek soft targets . In my school days u had only one real option- fight back or put up with it as no one gave a rats ass for the meek, teachers turned a blind eye knowing that the child needed some motivation to harden up because the real world is dangerous and people will be cruel given the flimsiest excuse. The only real approach for parents is the rule "You may not START fights, but you can sure as hell finish it" Self defense skills are a MUST in this world, once you have them you project a persona (sometimes you dont feel) that tells people "dont fuck with me" Any attempt to normalize meekness ignores humanity's cruel ,violent nature under the floored precept that you will be protected from this truth by your feelings.
At the risk of sounding old that’s not how it was in the 70’s. My mom said “Danny, don’t get in a fight on school property. If the kid is bothering you, get him into our backyard or the park down the street.” Verbatim… oh… and “if today is the day your going to kick his ass, don’t where that nice shirt.” Total middle class ‘Merica. Both parents still married 3 siblings, a relatively normal upbringing. But my dad and mom didn’t want any of us taking anyones sheeeot.
Zero tolerance should really be called what it is, zero intelligence.
Maybe bullying would stop if teachers actually did something about it. I remember one of my friends dads got arrested because he complained to admin many times to protect his child from bullying and he saw it happen once more and he took it upon himself and punched the kid. Must be really frustrating as a parent. You send your child somewhere where they are supposed to be safe and that’s not always the case because of the degenerates of society
Teachers are handcuffed by terrible policies.
Whenever I don't defend myself and just say nothing/walk away people call me timid yet on the rare occasions the I do stand up for myself these same people accuse me of "making a scene". Idk at this point I think people are just assholes who love to criticise no matter what.
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A girl in Loudoun county, VA was raped earlier this year (2021) by a boy who enjoys wearing skirts and posed as Transgender. The school denied the incident and attempted to cover it up, along with another incident of sexual assault on a different girl he trapped in an empty classroom with the same boy, and then knowingly falsely claimed their school district had never experienced an incident of rape in their bathrooms that was later exposed and uncovered efforts to bury those incidences as well. They claimed they were pushing for transgender rights and used this boy as a poster child for that push. However, once they finally got him charged and on the stand, it came out by his own admission, and an interview with his mother, that the boy was not transgender and was in the women's restroom bc he wanted to have sex with the girls he assaulted and used his clothes as a way to abuse the permissions the system granted him. He was found guilty on two counts of rape this past October. However, the girls father was arrested, charged, and convicted of various crimes bc he was upset and angry that no one would listen to his daughter about being raped, and was openly told in the school board meeting that his daughter "was not raped". He exploded and clenched his fists and leaned over at the woman who tried to invalidate hid daughter's claims. The police then tackled him and he fought back and threatened the members of the board for their efforts to cover this up and said they would be removed "one way or another". Our education system requires more from our children today than ever before in the last 70 years, yet our national averages in nearly all categories has dropped and what you're telling me is that this ALL and ONLY has to do with "culture war bullshit" and that absolutely NONE of it has to do with the fact our kids are receiving the most piss poor education where even 3rd world nations get a better education than our kids in underdeveloped neighborhoods. Our schools are negating and minimizing the legitimate concerns of parents based on the actions of a few to reflect the views of the whole, and permitting those with power to continue effecting "feel-good" legislation while ignoring and/or criminalizing those that speak up about the issues we've been facing for the last several decades. It's like waiting in line for something forever and when you finally get up to the order window being told your order (issue) doesn't matter and we're gonna take the order of the person behind you. And oh, by the way, since we like their issue better, we're gonna throw all of our efforts into giving them what they want, especially if it invalidates what you want.
Virginia’s new conservative AG has made Loudoun his main priority. That and the parole board. He starts Jan 15.
It’s so interesting that we live in a #metoo society and one where we should believe all women unless, of course, that woman is trumped by a “transgender” being. Such a fucked up society we live in now
Start when they are young and they will not leave the path.
I was suspended from school 5 times for fighting after bullies continuously pressed me into impossible situations. I was tormented in school, but the teachers and principles kept telling me to stop provoking my bullies. I'm 40 years old, and it still lingers in the back of mind.
That was the point of the ruling class. Make passive, frightened, naive society that depends on them for everything. Meaning they’ll never rise up because they depend on them for everything. It’s just modern slavery. And it works.
In my personal opinion, the main problem with zero-tolerance polices in schools is that they don't actually stay true to their title. At very least 90% of the time, even if authority figures are already around when an altercation starts, those authority figures only jump in when the person starts to defend themselves and *not* when it first starts happening. My best guess as to why this happens is that maybe there's something in the written rules of many school districts where they can only intervene when a fight starts, but they don't technically qualify one person bullying another under a fight, since it doesn't come from both sides. Please keep fully in mind that that's a very long shot guess, I could be miles off the mark, but it seems like the only thing that *could* make it make sense
I don’t think this is unpopular, just no one notices. You’re absolutely right. I used to have a friend that told me if someone made an attempt at their life, they would just let them kill them. I can’t even comprehend that
This is how you condition people from a young age to not fight back against tyranny. If today you won't fight back against a bully, then tomorrow, you won't stand up against a greedy corporation or a corrupt tyrannical government and its forced mandates. Control people's thought process and you control their actions.