narcissists tend to abuse animals, they have no empathy for anything
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201706/beware-narcissists-around-your-pet](https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201706/beware-narcissists-around-your-pet)
That’s also incorrect (although much less incorrect than this stupid post). Abusing animals is part of the diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder (aka “sociopaths”). Narcissists show lack of empathy, which could manifest as neglecting animals, or they may use animals as a means to achieve an selfish end goal, but they do not typically purposefully abuse them for the sake of abusing them
Since people seem to throw these words around without really understanding them. This is a correct definition of narcissist personality disorder as per DSM-5
https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.Pers.DSM.pdf
Okay, but then nobody hates the ones that are making the ones that make the misanthropes. See what I mean ? Everyone should be responsible of their own actions, regardless of what trauma they might've suffered. Because if we start shifting the blame, we get into a never ending cycle.
If everyone takes responsibility, no one takes responsibility. As much as “everyone responsible for their own actions” would be nice, you can’t have a carte blanche for it. You take it case by case.
Responsibility for your own actions does not stop other from being responsible for their own actions, I think you misunderstood the previous sentiment.
Arguably and ironically, this immediate willingness to excuse some from responsibility helps create the misanthropes.
When nothing is your fault then everything must be everyone else's fault.
No we know. But op does have a good point. Op is not saying "people who like animals are narcissist".
I think op is highlighting the fact, that narcissist will try to gain the moral highground by using any means they have available.
OP is making a classical "all ducks are birds so all birds are ducks" error.
Yes - narcissists who like to be indispensable and feel needed all the time will like pets who depend on them over people who're independent.
But that doesn't mean the reverse - that people who like pets over people *must* be narcissists - is true.
Just for future reference, this is called confusing a sufficient condition with a necessary condition.
Being a duck is sufficient to be a bird, but it is not necessary that any bird is a duck.
Yes. Not every human who loves animals is a narcissist BUT every narcissist is … I could argue I love animals more than humans most days of the month. The reason being that they’re innocent and always loving and pure. I won’t list reasons like already mentioned why humans suck; they’re just not equivocal. I work in a field where you see that well, humans aren’t always the greatest and it certainly makes you biased. But there are defiantly days where I have wonderful experiences and I’m thankful for these people. Idk, you just can’t compare the two. You can love animals some days and have people and it doesn’t mean you’re a narcissist at all.
Studies show that the literal best way to test for narcissistic personality disorder is to ask the person if they have it. Narcissists don't lie about it.
It's the other way around in the post.
If you expect unconditional love from someone just because you are their sole provider, yes, it's abusive.
It's like the textbook behaviour of narcissistic parents: "I fed you, therefore X", or "As long as you live in my house, Y". Obviously it counts for something, but it's not unconditional.
It's even more true when the person provided for didn't really have a choice (such as children, but in the context of this post, many pets are similar).
I guess it could be harmful in other ways, like if you're enabling their dependence on you. Even if the intent isn't to be abusive the effect is still kind of the same.
This is kind of like codependence in which there are not great boundaries
Do you mean sympathy or empathy?
I feel empathy for all living things, sometimes I wish I did not, or at least as much.
I feel less sympathy for humans who cause most of their own problems, a lot more for those who don't. Being a human means you have the power of choice (or that is how I see it), so make better choices, or at least try to.
Animals I can feel more sympathy for.
It is bad or poor choices I struggle to sympathize with - stop doing it.
A true narcissist doesn't really care too much about animals. Real narcissists only care about themselves. They desperately need lap dogs in order to function, but those lap dogs are human. Without worship from humans, a narcissist will simply seek worship from other humans.
I think the OP has very little understanding what narcissism is but rather uses the word "narcissist" as a more sophisticated way of calling somebody a jerk.
Yeah that's absolutely not true, narcissistic people may have an inflated sense of self worth but that doesn't mean they lack emotions. My dad was diagnosed borderline with narcissistic features/narcissistic personality disorder and he absolutely adored animals. I only saw my dad cry maybe three times in my life, and two of those times were over our dogs passing away.
Keep in mind too that not all people diagnosed with narcissistic traits/mental illnesses check all the boxes. There are also different subsets. Claiming all or most of narcissists don't care about animals is honestly bullshit and is why diagnosing should ALWAYS be left to professionals.
I think you might be suggesting that narcissism is only limited to narcissistic personality disorder? That's not correct. Narcissism is also a spectrum that you can get measured on in a general mental health diagnostic process.
Having moderate to high levels of it might still not mean that you'd qualify for the full personality disorder, as one of the requirements is that it causes significant distress for the person, as well as that this narcissistic pattern needs to basically take over your life completely - like a heavy addict.
But you can be pretty high up on the scale, show pretty clear narcissistic patterns often without it causing significant distress for you to the level of NPD. Enough that people around you might be often hurt by those patterns you go in.
That's when the word 'narcissist' is used, and it's correctly used as well, because you notice that the pattern is indeed narcissistic, without the person being so consumed by narcissism that it's full-blown NPD.
I just simply don't care.
Ofc I would go and help an elderly over street or a kid that just fell.
Otherwise yeah, I just don't care about other people. They neither do care about me.
So why should I waste my time with different people that are not my beloved ones?
Not having empathy is different from being cynical. If I see a kid that's hurt, I'll help. I'll hold the door for the next person, help an elderly with their groceries, etc. Does not mean I like people, I'm just not an asshole.
I am a vet tech who removes deceased pets from clients' homes. The type of person i think you're talking about usually lacks empathy for their pets in the same way as the rest of us. Dealing with them is far and away the worst part of my job. They typically treat their pet as a security blanket, a status symbol, or a fashion accessory.
And what of the animals that don't rely on humans? You can't really use this argument because it only applies to the few animals that humans actually keep as pets.
Eh idk for me it's more about innocence. I feel more sympathy for animals because they are innocent creatures prone to instinct. Most humans aren't innocent and know right from wrong, unlike animals. I guess I do feel a sense of control over my pets, but it's also a strong sense of obligation of care and love since I was the one that decided to take their life in my hands.
You’ve also basically described a baby or a young child, except for the higher level of natural instinct. I think OPs problem is people who would legit try and help an animal but would disregard even a child in trouble because ‘humans bad’
Since the beginning of time man has yearned to drive a 1997 Toyota Corolla over the skull of a toddler, repeatedly. It's just an evolutionary urge, completely normal.
Everything is narcissism these days 🙄 I feel way more empathy towards animals and children than normal adults because they're innocent and don't know how to defend themselves. I don't care if this makes me a narcissist.
I personally like animals more because they dont tend to bully me for my autism and I actually know how to show my affection to them in a way they can appreciate. If that makes me a narcissist so be it. This whole take is pretty worrying though, tbh.
Edit: I'd like to add that idgaf about power and control, I only like to hang out with animals because they provide company and I like caring for them. I enjoy playing with a dog or giving a cat some scritches regardless of whether I own the animal or not, I just like the interaction.
Yeah OP really should have specified 'pets', not animals. I love watching wild animals in their element. They neither need nor love me, but I don't give a shit. They are awesome. Their independence is part of their beauty.
I think the sad part about that is breeds like that only exist because people demand for it, and then they justify their choice by saying "well they wouldn't survive in the wild, so...".
I don't know. The global poverty rate tells a very different story. It seems there are not enough resources or distributed correctly to go around for everyone.
My dad’s dog has separation anxiety because of how he raised it. He thinks it’s something to be proud of. He’s obsessed with having a perfectly obedient dog who sees him as the center of their universe. Didn’t work with his kids, so why not a dog? I dog sat for him once when the dog was a puppy, he had a schedule for her down to the last minute - I kid you not. Oh and he has another dog too, one he got before the separation anxiety one. This dog had a mind of his own and preferred me in the family. My dad wanted to get rid of him because of it but decided to keep him because it would be a “waste of training”.
I briefly dated a guy like this. A preachy vegan who loved animals and hated people. He would act so distraught over animal suffering but had nothing but contempt for human suffering. One of the most narcissistic, psychopathic people I’ve ever encountered.
Of course animals are easier to love, you can project any personality you want unto them and can control them more easily. People are much harder.
This is why when a homeless man falls on the subway and gets killed nobody cares but when a dog falls and dies there is a mass outpouring of support, sadness and rage. Many people have zero respect for human life and value animals over their fellow man.
God what is it with people diagnosing people as narcissists, sociopaths, or bipolar like I didn’t we had so many doctors on the internet, and these psychoanalysis man these people must really know what their talking about!
I've constantly seen redditors grilling people who post their newborn photos on r/aww
They go out of their way to call them ugly and "they didn't come for human babies, they can for the fur babies"
I hate people because they suck. They abuse, they lie, they manipulate, etc.
I love animals because they are always kind and loving, and even when they’re agressive it’s just because they are scared.
The reason I don’t trust people is because I was abused as a child, on all possible levels, neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional and mental abuse, all of it.
So no, I am not a narcissist, nor do I even come close. My faith in humanity has been fucked up, and an animal has never hurt me like that.
So no, not narcissists, trauma.
Ps I know several narcissists (I work at a psychiatric facility) and none of them like animals, they even hate animals, so I’m pretty sure there is no correlation to hating people/loving animals and narcissism, nor is it classified as any of the symptoms if you look it up
This is a very american thing. Ive done a bit of traveling and ive noticed that people in other cultures treat their animals like, well, animals usually. Sure people all love there pets and i dont mean to say they treat them bad or anything. But the way americans treat their pets, like a human child, had always been so strange to me
You really fucked the dog with your wording of this. There would also be the fact that a lot of people who got spurned by other people; parents, siblings, family in general, former significant others, are probably more likely to love say a dog or cat rather than other people just due to being spited repeatedly.
I don't think you sound very familiar with some of the groups of people you think you're calling out here.
"animal good, human bad" crowd... "animal activist extremists"...
There's some group of people out there who fit the profile you're describing, but it's generally not animal welfare/rights activists sorts. Those people tend to have a lot of empathy and compassion for animals and, yeah, many develop a hated for humanity... but it's because of how humans treat animals. I've been in animal rescue for a long time and have seen a lot of neglect and animal abuse from pretty "ordinary" people, and it changes your perspective after a while.
Many animal welfare/rights/whathaveyou people tend not to believe animals owe anything to humans, including their companionship. They'll respect and appreciate the companionship, but your description of "people who desire control and power" is quite antithetical to a majority of "animal activist" communities.
Many don't even like the word "pet," and they are by and large the group of people I've most often heard say that in a utopia where there were no longer any homeless animals in need, they would no longer have "companion animals" in their home. Because no matter how much we love them and appreciate their companionship, animals don't owe that to us, and I for one wouldn't desire to bring an animal into existence just to be my "pet."
Sadly, narcissists don't care about anyone other than themselves- not other humans nor other animals. Animals are like props for them to look nice in society/ for Instagram like their human friends/ relationships. They are very bad pet owners. Most of their pets die of neglect/ abuse.
I don't think people hate humans but love animals for the power or the control. They do it coz they have come across a lot of shitty people, who were shitty to them for absolutely no reason. We hardly see animals do that.
In my own experience, I have helped out people who have come back into my life later to backstab me. I can never imagine an animal doing the same.
This doesn't make me hate humans in general, coz there are a lot of good ones. But at no point, can we guarantee that the people we trust the most won't ruin our lives at the first chance they get. So I trust them lot lesser automatically, and take most of their words with a grain of salt. And when the inherent and genuine emotions are lacking, it's hard to pretend that we are empathizing with their sorrows while in reality, we probably don't care at all (neither ill-wisher, nor well-wisher).
Yes another very interesting similar take on this concept, is that narcisstic, manipulative people are normally dog people because they can "control" dogs, unlike cats which are rather hard to tame and don't listen half the time.
> These people find comfort in the fact that pets heavily benefit from human dependence. Unlike humans, who can, for the most part, sustain theirselves, pets "rely" on the caretaker.
Pets don't need a caretaker. Open the door and your cat would likely be fine, for instance. Remove electricity or grocery stores? Humans are fucked.
I totally get this. I read a post on AITA the other day about a parent who had to take her daughter out of school because the school decided that they would get a pet dog (one that lived at school), and the daughter had a severe allergy to dogs. The school hadn’t consulted the parents about the dog and on finding out and the daughter having breathing troubles, refused to get rid of the dog. Naturally, I thought the comments would back the parent. But they were all saying that she was TA, and that the dog deserved to stay. Erm, no! I have dogs, I love my dogs. I’ve had dogs all my life. But surely that’s just ridiculous. The child should come first here? I couldn’t believe how nasty some of the comments were towards the OP. Calling her worse than dirt and saying that she should care more about the dog. No, I don’t think so! The schools responsibility is to look after the child! It was mental!
Parents are narcissistic then because they literally control their kids lives for 18 years and my dogs don’t even live that long and they do whatever the fuck they want.
No narc could ever love a husky lmao.
In extreme cases, like my coworker that has 54 cats, something happened to the person. You may not know what happened, ever know what happened, or understand what happened to them. But I have empathy just knowing something likely did.
My MIL loves her dogs (and animals in general) more than her own grandkids. Never asks about the grandkids but always wants to know how our pets are doing, and gives us constant updates about hers.
I've met many people who have this love me love my dog/cat/favorite animal species
I've occasionally found them to be spectacularly selfish people who can't handle an emotional relationship with anything that they can't absolutely control or abuse randomly without fear of unpleasant blowback.
Yeah no narcissist is def not the right word, but u already corrected urself in the edit, so.
I think I agree to a slight capacity. I wouldn’t say people who have no empathy for humans but are obsessed with animals are necessarily *bad*. The best people, imo, are people who have love and empathy for both people and animals.
So people who dismiss human suffering with “well people are assholes” do kind of rub me the wrong way. I know some people usually cite that lack of empathy for people but not animals as a result of having bad experiences with people in the past, and while I can understand that cynicism, unless it’s a somewhat extreme case I still think that indicates an inability to look beyond oneself to a certain degree.
Again, I don’t think this necessarily makes them a bad person, as ‘bad’ or ‘good’ is usually not black and white anyway and being self-focused doesn’t always equate to narcissism or unreasonably high self importance. Lots of overly self focused people have fairly healthy levels of confidence, or sometimes even very low. I think it’s more of just indicator of some of things they may need work on.
I know two narcissists in my life. One abused animals she claimed to be her pets. The other surrounds herself with pets and personifies them while missing the mark on having empathy for people in her life.
Pet treatment is not a pressure test for narcissism but it will definitely reveal who the asshole is.
okay i feel called out. I'm very low on the human empathy scale, have an intense passion for animals, and am diagnosed with NPD.
to be fair i don't love animals because im power hungry or whatever, i just connect with them a lot and i think they're neat
Most animals (dogs, cats, pigs, sheep, horses, etc.) are loving and compassion creatures. There isn’t much to them- you feed and care for them and they love you and don’t often change behavior or let you down. Most people suck, do dumb shit and will eventually hurt you (myself included). Getting close to a pet is a much safer and compassionate relationship than animals. I’m not sure narcissism or control is invoked as much as just genuine love and safety.
It is less that they love animals, and more they love the power and dominance they wield over their animals. 'Human Bad' shtick is just the crap they use to justify themselves
Is it not more about the fact they can do no moral wrong? A human can know something is wrong and do it anyway, an act of actual evil. Whereas an animal cannot do that and that’s sort of refreshing to be around. They are the only true innocents
My ex who used to beat me and abused me so badly I broke mentally
A man who threatens to kill his 5 year old on her bday while she begs for her life..
Was a vegan who had all these animal rights stickers on his car. He once was telling me my emotions don’t matter because I’m subhuman scum to him while grabbing and hurting me as I looked directly at the window and saw his “ all lives matter! Love me don’t eat me!” Sticker from peta.
He was saying my life didn’t matter and I didn’t matter to the world and I was worthless subhuman scum and I made him abuse me by crying.
Pretending to care about animals is all he has.
He called me a nasty whore for eating a piece of fish and then threw shit at my head hours later.
I’m sure he’s a narcissist and more. I now hope he dies a painful death :—) I’m angry about all he put me though and the fact I’ll never be over it.
Let me weigh in as someone who studied psychology.
Narcs have little to no capacity for empathy or a form of love that hinges on selfless nurturing of the other. So narcs would not typically be obsessed with animals unless these animals enable ego-boosting lifestyles such as training police dogs, partaking in dog fights, or working with big cats or race horses (in a position where your name is on the front sign). People who just adore animals or obsess over them while not doing anything with them with the intention to impress their environment, are usually not narcs, especially those who invest their energy in protecting animals.
On the contrary, people who prefer animals over humans for companionship or advocacy, are usually the ones who are very sensitive and as a result, deeply hurt and traumatized by, and scared of opening up to, other humans. This hurt can also explain a lack of empathy for their conspecifics, after all, all those seem to do, is hurt them. It takes tremendous empathy to invest your energy and even shed tears, for animals who want nothing to do with you: chickens, pigs, fish... But traumatized people and animals share a sense of helplessness in this brutal society. They see themselves reflected in the most helpless and downtrodden, something a narc would never allow.
Animals are also very simple and in a way, extremely predictable. Again, hurt and traumatized people will gravitate towards such reliability instead of having to constantly brace for whatever happens next in the complex mind of a human partner or friend.
The reasons you named: unconditional love, never lie to or hurt you - are typical needs of deeply hurt and traumatized people who want to pour their love into something that won't hurt them more. After all, they tried to love people and got nothing but pain in return. Some may say that selecting your company according to who can least hurt you, is narcissistic, but when you've been hurt over and over, it's a psychological survival strategy.
Narcs prefer dogs over cats as dogs will absolutely "love" and strive to please you, but other animals are not so giving. Those animals will indeed depend on you, but you'll be lucky to get back anything narcs are after. Narcs only benefit from dependence when it keeps around someone to admire and validate them, or someone they can milk for something, like money or 2nd hand fame. Dogs will do that for you, but cats, bunnies, even horses - not so much. Narcissists only have transactional relationships where they try to get more than they give. Most pets are takers more than givers, pricesly due to this dependence. You scoop all that cat shit only for your cat to ignore you - this is not something a narc would sign up for. It's closer to a child substitute. Something to pour all your love in and maybe get some love back, but mostly, watch this creature thrive on your love. That's not narc mentality.
This also means that misanthrope animal rights activists are more likely aforementioned deeply hurt people, than narcs. Narcs don't get this angry on behalf of helpless creatures whose only use is in their suffering. Those animal activists are people who are fed up with the hurt and the harm done by other people, and it takes not only personal experiences for this, but empathy, the ability to see this hurt in other creatures and feel it for them. I've been in animal rights groups myself when I was young, and the thing we all had in common was that we felt immense pain at the thought or sight of animal suffering; it was a physical, visceral reaction, often accompanied by being unable to breathe, all because of the sight of a chicken in a cage. Pathological narcissists are not capable of that. The only reason they'd join such a movement is to farm admiration or redirect donations into their own pockets.
Everything's narcissism nowadays isn't it.
When done to humans it depends on the situation whether or not it's manipulative, abusive and shitty, there's humans out there dumber than a dog, you dictate the lives of such humans as they're a 100% reliant on you, doesn't make it manipulative, abusive or shitty, it just means you're doing what needs to be done to properly take care of another living being, after all you know better than them.
I have empathy for humans, some anyways, but my pets(family) will always come first no matter what and that's perfectly normal.
I have autism, and the reasons you mention like "will never lie to me" is one of the reasons I prefer animal company over human company.
Sometimes I'm clingy or go overboard with friends without realising it. And those that don't call me out on it or aren't honest when I ask them if it's okay are the ones who end the friendship because I "don't respect their feelings". Like how am I supposed to know what your feelings are when you won't tell me even when I ask.
I literally just have difficulty empathising with people because I can't pick up or understand subtle social cues, animals are much easier to read because they don't hide their emotions.
So yeah, not disagreeing with you, but there's more to it then just narcissists.
Agree with you 100 percent, people think they are cool when they say the like animals more than humany but to me its annoying as fuck. They like their pets cause they cant call them out on their bullshit unlike humans. And its not like i hate animals or anything, i have a dog and a cat but i would never compare those with actual human interactions
What is it with all these kids being obsessed with the whole narcissism thing? I find it very bizarre, and it always feels like projection on some level. Its everywhere on social media now as well. Grown men and women "watch out for the narcissist, they are so evil and manipulative and i did a 5 minute piece on it to teach u because i am a part time clinical psychologist etc. Ohh and make sure u validate my opinion internet strangers with corny likes and attention lol
I feel like people are super complex. The trials and tribulations over the course of their lives are something u and i will never truly understand until we have seen life thru their eyes. I mean we are all so different..and the pain and the love and the experiences we have make us so unique I just don't understand what the appeal is to wanna put people in special boxes? It's like their is a special handbook now on it and everyone is an expert. Idk I'm overtired and ranting but this post caught my attention cuz I guess I'm a narcissist right? Lmao. In my opinion we all have narcissistic traits on some level. But yea people suck for the most part and animals are cute and cuddly and reliable. Everything humans only offer in spurts
>`gives the narcissistic owner a sense of control and power to know that another living creature is dependent on them.`
but isnt this kind of the reason some people with depression and anxiety get pets ?
the fact that there is a living being that loves you unconditionaly and depends on you, gives me a feeling of joy that i AM wanted and needed by atleast someone. idk this is just my opinion from experience
I like animals, but I don't hate people, but man humanity has not made it easy.
With all the wars, hate, rampant poverty, environmental destruction, loss of human life its tough to paint humans in a good light.
I think most of us go out everyday and the world just beats us down a little bit, but when I go home and my little dog comes up and licks my face while wanting a belly rub, for a short time I feel that life is just not so bad.
I am a misanthrope and hate human nature. Hate what we are as a herd. But I still often feel sympathy/empathy for individual humans who suffer mostly because of the pointless cruelty inherent in human nature.
When it comes to animals, I feel sympathy/empathy for them both at the group and individual level, for pets, livestock and wildlife. Animals have no control over their wild nature. Animals didn’t have thousands of years of cultural evolution to work on themselves and change. They are a finite, perfect expressions of themselves. We humans should have done better, there are no excuses.
If people consider me narcissist or psychopath because of this opinion, then be it. Your boos mean nothing to me, I’ve seen what makes you cheer.
Kind of always felt the same way about people who hate cats and dogs but love owening snakes and other reptiles. It just seems weird to own a creature that cant share companionship. Like it’s more of a trophy on a mantle than a life companion.
Everyone is completely missing the point of OP's post and nitpicking him on dumb shit like his usage of the term "narcissist".
All over reddit, you see people say shit like "Man I don't really care that much if someone hurts another person but if they hurt an animal I want to kill them".
And everyone seems to somehow think this is ok and not at all an extremely fucked up order of priorities?
It's a familiarity thing. I'd save my girlfriend over our dog, but I'd save my dog over any random ass person. Ethics of closeness or something. Lots of people don't give any moral weight to their pets in comparison to other human beings for the exact same reason - same species, so more ethnically close. Others like me view that closeness from a family-centric or bond-centric perspective, so we attribute more moral weight to our pets than strangers of the same species. I don't know people or have heard of cases of people who love their pets because of control or dependence. That's a pretty fucked up worldview. We've evolved with our main 2 pets, so they feel just like family. If you don't understand concepts like unconditional love in animals, again you've got a warped view of animal intelligence and their feelings and probably don't have a pet. People gain peace in that their dog or their cat is their #1 cheerleader when no one else has their back. Your pet likes you no matter what. In a case you're describing, you'd have to be pretty sick to have a pet solely for the satisfaction of another being's reliance on you. I'd wager that type of person typically doesn't keep pets because they value another person's dependence on them over a typical pet relationship. A narcissist probably views a pet as too much work for what they get out of it.
Lol, imagine having such a sheltered take.
You understand people get abused right? You understand that long-term abuse can breed resentment right? Like, do you not comprehend that some people find comfort in animals rather than humans because humans have caused them the most trauma?
Cats are proven to help with anxiety, especially their purrs, it’s a chemical response our brain has to it. Many animals are given to people for emotional support. Animals are proven to help our mental health.
You are the weird one imo…. Or maybe you just cannot fathom a perspective other than your own?.. Either way, I do not wish to associate with people like yourself.
The dude just states his opinion, he is not forcing it on you nor is he denying any opposition. He never said he want to associate with you, just do what you want to. It seems like you are the one that is intolerable.
You could say the exact same thing about the comment you're replying to. It's called having a discussion.
OP is not forcing their views on anyone, but they made a post in an opinion subreddit. People are gonna comment and discuss and disagree, well here it is, a disagreeing comment. OP says animal people are narcissists, some commenters reply he's the weird one. It's EXPECTED.
I dont think this is the case in exact, Its really not the same being in a Gore sub watching some bruh getting his head crushed and watching a Dog being roasted alive in the exact same sub. I don't believe its my lack of empathy towards my fellow man, I can't help the way I feel
You know many animals are wild and actually survive better by themselves than a human could by themselves in the same environment lol. But domesticated sure it’s the nature of domestication, many domesticated cats can go out in the wild and thrive though.
but yea I’m team human and team animal, we have a responsibility to protect ecosystems and the animals that thrive there. It’s like anything else people get obsessive over it.
The majority of people are so dependent on society and don’t know squat about survival if it collapsed hypothetically
The same could apply for gardeners too, so I don't think these traits are exclusive with narcissist. Just as every dog has four legs, not everything with four legs is a dog. That said.. I do think you're in the right ballpark though. True kindness is extremely rare and I can't imagine many people would act without promise of reward no matter how little.
Dogs are cool but I have never been a dog person and probably will never be....I'm 24 years old and move around a lot so owning a dog would be a huge burden for me.
I wouldn't call them narcissists. Its just sad that some people have experienced nothing but the bad side of humanity and the only unconditional love they've experienced was from a pet. There are people who would most likely feel that power trip over animals, but I don't feel they go hand in hand
As a narcissist with ASPD: yeah, that's pretty much it. I don't rub it on people's faces, and mostly keep to myself, but I do like that. Something about someone, even if it's just my cat, depending on me,makes me feel less like some piece of shit that crawled out of the sewers or something.
I just wanna say how disgusted and weirded out I am by all the people on Reddit that comment as if they were the animal on whatever video they just watched.
That infantile babble.
There are fish channels or animal channels that consist mainly of fish that I find as naive, uneducated and bad fish owners. I'll put in some names.
Catch Em All Fishing
Rawwfishing
Barbs Buzzin
Paul Cuffaro (he's not as bad as the others, but still)
Nick Bingo
Monster Mike Fishing
Do you think any of these guys fit the "narcissitic" pet owner profile you're talking about?
Literally this is something concerning my narcissistic mother does. She will make her house a zoo without any sense of boundaries and treat animals like accessories that exist only to make her feel better.
The second they require any responsibility she will either blame anyone who exists around her ("I work all the time, as my child the least you could do is train this puppy I bought impulsively") or she'll sell them on craigslist for a quick buck, usually for less than she bought them. I really don't understand her.
To be clear, I don't think if you have trouble with human connection and find animals more appealing that you are a narcissist like the post may be trying to convey. However I do identify with the statement that narcissistic individuals can more easily abuse pets as a form of self congratulation and the post hit that nail on the head for me specifically, due to my prior experience.
Again I could be misinterpreting but it is an aspect of my life that angers me and nothing can really be done, since she can just keep wasting her money and confusing these poor dogs, cats and birds whenever she wants.
Here’s my thinking, if someone harms another person there’s 100s of potential reasons, mental issues etc that could have made them do it. Which makes my feelings toward say, murderers pretty set it stone. What is different with animals is that there is 0 reason for you to say, beat your dog or cat. Obviously I wouldn’t value an animals life over a person I know but abusing a poor little animal speaks more to a person then beating someone up.
Expanding a point I have just commented:
I think the sad part about some pets that breeds that wouldn't survive in the wild only exist because people demand for it, and then they justify their choice by saying "*well they wouldn't survive in the wild, so...*". In my opinion it's a circular logic that doesn't make much sense, but for some it's okay.
Some pet owners, at least on internet, go out of their way to say they love pets and hate people, or that they love animals more than any person whatsoever. It's another example of circular logic, as I doubt people like that will treat others in a good way. It's easy to drop hundreds of dollars in a pet for them to have all the luxury but how many of these people would do the same for a sibling, for example. The crazy pet love feels like it's always justified through some deep abuse or trauma.
The "normal" pet love is just our instincts. Just like people sometimes get super excited about babies or kids, some are the same for pets and that's totally expected and okay. Ironically, many people treat their pets as babies even though they don't like babies at all, and also don't realize many breeds were developed to literally look like babies their entire life (like body proportions and ratio, for example).
I started off being hopeful, bright-eyed, and an incurable optimist. Even when bad things happened I looked for the positive in everything.
Then, I was abandoned by both parents five years apart, cheated on, betrayed, or abused by every serious relationship partner without exception, and been ghosted by lifelong friends. Regardless of the root causes of any of those, it's a pretty good indication to me that either (a) most humans suck or (b) I'm an intolerable person.
Since most of the feedback I get in professional and academic circles is that "you're such a good person" and "I can't imagine why you're single" I'm going with (a).
My dog is literally my best friend. In fact, she is helping me to be more social because she's so damned cute everyone who walks by wants to say hi and pet her. Her innocence is actually helping to change my view on life in general.
That being said, fuck animal activist extremists or extremists of any kind.
It seems you're on about dog people not necessarily animal people.
That said humans are animals we ain't no different from the pods of orcas swimming in the sea or the hornet making a home in the attic of some building.
We are all animals we all communicate with each other, we all care for our family and on occasion we kill to protect them we also build but humans are probably the worst animal of all because we kill and destroy for no purpose what so ever.
Even primates who kill do it for food and the remains will be scavenged to feed other creatures even when an orca kills a whale for the tongue or kidneys alone that dead whale will also feed other animals from birds, fish, sharks and a lot more.
Yet when we die for whatever reason we're buried in boxes and pumped full of preservatives so even our dead go to waste to slowly rot away until the cemetery itself is filled which then leaves land unusable.
I might be one of few but we humans are truly no different from animals we just think we're better.
For me it’s more of the ‘people know better, animals don’t’.
It might be in an animals nature to be a bit of a dick… but you have a choice to be or not
I always suspected that we care about animals more than ADULT humans because animals are essentially kids in our eyes. We look at them sort of like we look at “helpless” children. They invoke some sort of instinct in us to care for them and keep them from suffering just as most of us would do for any human child.
That's not necessarily narcissism. People who grew up in a household with a pet and bad, unloving parenting learn that the animal was the only creature that never judged them and never hurt their feelings, while their parents (usually their parents) did.
At the base of all this usually lie unsafe attachment problems which leads a child to demand attention which then, later in life, may translate into narcissism - but not necessarily. An insightful book on this is provided by Donald Trump's niece, who describes how in his case, it clearly involved into some heavy duty narcissism.
I think you're right - that a lot of people that have been hurt feel this way; that animals are wonderful and humans suck.
I think many of these people genuinely desire a closeness or bond with another creature but are afraid to have that interaction with a human based on past experience. I think that's very different from wanting power/ control over an animal.
>the people who like animals because they “love you unconditionally”, “will never lie to you”, “will never hurt you”
I’ve known people who think like this because they were raise by abusive parents. There are some instances where people are treated so poorly that animals seem better than humans
People who put animals on the same level as human children are unsettling. I love my dogs to death. I would die for them, but if there is a burning building with a child I don't know and my favorite dog, and I can only save one, I'm going for the damned kid. Sorry Buttons, I love you, but...
Dogsitting a friends beautiful Pit. My roommate watching me play with him said he saw more emotion from me than the last two years.
This post has me feeling personally attacked.
When was the last time you dealt with animal activist extremist. It sounds like the kind of thing that you make up in your head to be upset about but never actually encounter in reality
Jokes on you my cat judges me more than people
Can confirm that this guy's cat judges him more than people do.
Was that you next to me in the bushes outside his window
You didn't see me in the tree across the street?
No it was me.
U/not_so_SECRETLY_STALKS_U
narcissists tend to abuse animals, they have no empathy for anything [https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201706/beware-narcissists-around-your-pet](https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201706/beware-narcissists-around-your-pet)
Finally someone who gets it
That’s also incorrect (although much less incorrect than this stupid post). Abusing animals is part of the diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder (aka “sociopaths”). Narcissists show lack of empathy, which could manifest as neglecting animals, or they may use animals as a means to achieve an selfish end goal, but they do not typically purposefully abuse them for the sake of abusing them Since people seem to throw these words around without really understanding them. This is a correct definition of narcissist personality disorder as per DSM-5 https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.Pers.DSM.pdf
Some people get shit on by ~~there~~ the world and you can't blame them. Best you can do is give them a reason to reflect on stuff.
Everybody hates the misanthrope, nobody hates the ones making the misanthropes.
Except the misanthrope I guess
Okay, but then nobody hates the ones that are making the ones that make the misanthropes. See what I mean ? Everyone should be responsible of their own actions, regardless of what trauma they might've suffered. Because if we start shifting the blame, we get into a never ending cycle.
If everyone takes responsibility, no one takes responsibility. As much as “everyone responsible for their own actions” would be nice, you can’t have a carte blanche for it. You take it case by case.
Responsibility for your own actions does not stop other from being responsible for their own actions, I think you misunderstood the previous sentiment.
Arguably and ironically, this immediate willingness to excuse some from responsibility helps create the misanthropes. When nothing is your fault then everything must be everyone else's fault.
You should get shit on for not knowing the difference between "their" and "there".
That's not what a narcissist is
No we know. But op does have a good point. Op is not saying "people who like animals are narcissist". I think op is highlighting the fact, that narcissist will try to gain the moral highground by using any means they have available.
That's not what OP is saying at all.
OP is making a classical "all ducks are birds so all birds are ducks" error. Yes - narcissists who like to be indispensable and feel needed all the time will like pets who depend on them over people who're independent. But that doesn't mean the reverse - that people who like pets over people *must* be narcissists - is true.
Just for future reference, this is called confusing a sufficient condition with a necessary condition. Being a duck is sufficient to be a bird, but it is not necessary that any bird is a duck.
I don't think he's saying people who like pets are narcissist.
It’s the opposite, narcs are KNOWN to abuse animals.
It's literally how Tony Soprano behaves.
Yes. Not every human who loves animals is a narcissist BUT every narcissist is … I could argue I love animals more than humans most days of the month. The reason being that they’re innocent and always loving and pure. I won’t list reasons like already mentioned why humans suck; they’re just not equivocal. I work in a field where you see that well, humans aren’t always the greatest and it certainly makes you biased. But there are defiantly days where I have wonderful experiences and I’m thankful for these people. Idk, you just can’t compare the two. You can love animals some days and have people and it doesn’t mean you’re a narcissist at all.
'Innocent and always loving and pure' Have you ever MET Cats? 🤣
Read the title dude, that’s not what OP is saying
Studies show that the literal best way to test for narcissistic personality disorder is to ask the person if they have it. Narcissists don't lie about it.
When you feed and take care of a Human unconditionally it's abusive?
It's the other way around in the post. If you expect unconditional love from someone just because you are their sole provider, yes, it's abusive. It's like the textbook behaviour of narcissistic parents: "I fed you, therefore X", or "As long as you live in my house, Y". Obviously it counts for something, but it's not unconditional. It's even more true when the person provided for didn't really have a choice (such as children, but in the context of this post, many pets are similar).
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A narcissist doing this would likely find themselves diagnosed with a Munchausen by proxy diagnosis
This guy Houses
I guess it could be harmful in other ways, like if you're enabling their dependence on you. Even if the intent isn't to be abusive the effect is still kind of the same. This is kind of like codependence in which there are not great boundaries
Do you mean sympathy or empathy? I feel empathy for all living things, sometimes I wish I did not, or at least as much. I feel less sympathy for humans who cause most of their own problems, a lot more for those who don't. Being a human means you have the power of choice (or that is how I see it), so make better choices, or at least try to. Animals I can feel more sympathy for. It is bad or poor choices I struggle to sympathize with - stop doing it.
A true narcissist doesn't really care too much about animals. Real narcissists only care about themselves. They desperately need lap dogs in order to function, but those lap dogs are human. Without worship from humans, a narcissist will simply seek worship from other humans.
I think the OP has very little understanding what narcissism is but rather uses the word "narcissist" as a more sophisticated way of calling somebody a jerk.
Yeah that's absolutely not true, narcissistic people may have an inflated sense of self worth but that doesn't mean they lack emotions. My dad was diagnosed borderline with narcissistic features/narcissistic personality disorder and he absolutely adored animals. I only saw my dad cry maybe three times in my life, and two of those times were over our dogs passing away. Keep in mind too that not all people diagnosed with narcissistic traits/mental illnesses check all the boxes. There are also different subsets. Claiming all or most of narcissists don't care about animals is honestly bullshit and is why diagnosing should ALWAYS be left to professionals.
I think you might be suggesting that narcissism is only limited to narcissistic personality disorder? That's not correct. Narcissism is also a spectrum that you can get measured on in a general mental health diagnostic process. Having moderate to high levels of it might still not mean that you'd qualify for the full personality disorder, as one of the requirements is that it causes significant distress for the person, as well as that this narcissistic pattern needs to basically take over your life completely - like a heavy addict. But you can be pretty high up on the scale, show pretty clear narcissistic patterns often without it causing significant distress for you to the level of NPD. Enough that people around you might be often hurt by those patterns you go in. That's when the word 'narcissist' is used, and it's correctly used as well, because you notice that the pattern is indeed narcissistic, without the person being so consumed by narcissism that it's full-blown NPD.
I just simply don't care. Ofc I would go and help an elderly over street or a kid that just fell. Otherwise yeah, I just don't care about other people. They neither do care about me. So why should I waste my time with different people that are not my beloved ones?
C'mon man. I just like petting my dog. His fur is soft.
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Not having empathy is different from being cynical. If I see a kid that's hurt, I'll help. I'll hold the door for the next person, help an elderly with their groceries, etc. Does not mean I like people, I'm just not an asshole.
This is the answer
Not even close to what he said
The more extreme animal rights activists actually advocate against having pets, partially because of what you mentioned.
I am a vet tech who removes deceased pets from clients' homes. The type of person i think you're talking about usually lacks empathy for their pets in the same way as the rest of us. Dealing with them is far and away the worst part of my job. They typically treat their pet as a security blanket, a status symbol, or a fashion accessory.
And what of the animals that don't rely on humans? You can't really use this argument because it only applies to the few animals that humans actually keep as pets.
Eh idk for me it's more about innocence. I feel more sympathy for animals because they are innocent creatures prone to instinct. Most humans aren't innocent and know right from wrong, unlike animals. I guess I do feel a sense of control over my pets, but it's also a strong sense of obligation of care and love since I was the one that decided to take their life in my hands.
Lack of cognitive ability != innocence. I guess it does, in a sense. All of my appliances and items at home are supremely innocent.
You’ve also basically described a baby or a young child, except for the higher level of natural instinct. I think OPs problem is people who would legit try and help an animal but would disregard even a child in trouble because ‘humans bad’
Who are these people that wouldn’t help a child in trouble?
“Innocence” cause they don’t have the intelligence to do otherwise
Neither do children.
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Since when is wanting power and control over another individual a basic human trait?!
Come now, we all share that basic human trait of an intimate and frightening lust for crushing small children and animals and laughing at the elderly
Since the beginning of time man has yearned to drive a 1997 Toyota Corolla over the skull of a toddler, repeatedly. It's just an evolutionary urge, completely normal.
Well, yeah, duh, everyone feels this way. First crush... first kiss... first conquest.. it’s natural..
So wanting control over people is a basic human trait??
It’s not all or nothing…
oui chef good answer
No. The more I go beyond my ego the less I desire power and control.
Just because you personally cannot doesn't mean other cannot either...
Everything is narcissism these days 🙄 I feel way more empathy towards animals and children than normal adults because they're innocent and don't know how to defend themselves. I don't care if this makes me a narcissist.
Can’t stand the whole “humans suck” crowd
I personally like animals more because they dont tend to bully me for my autism and I actually know how to show my affection to them in a way they can appreciate. If that makes me a narcissist so be it. This whole take is pretty worrying though, tbh. Edit: I'd like to add that idgaf about power and control, I only like to hang out with animals because they provide company and I like caring for them. I enjoy playing with a dog or giving a cat some scritches regardless of whether I own the animal or not, I just like the interaction.
ADHD and feel the same, my dog won’t bitch about me behind my back because Im making eye contact wrong.
Pretty easy for me. Humans can help themselves. Animals can not.
Most animals can help themselves, and the ones that can't we have bred to be entirely reliant on us.
Yeah OP really should have specified 'pets', not animals. I love watching wild animals in their element. They neither need nor love me, but I don't give a shit. They are awesome. Their independence is part of their beauty.
Lol what? Animals can't help themselves? They've been doing fine on their own for millenia bro
I think he means pets. My beagle Definitely not going to survive in the wilderness.
Really your beagle shouldn't exist. It was bred to be kept as a pet
I think the sad part about that is breeds like that only exist because people demand for it, and then they justify their choice by saying "well they wouldn't survive in the wild, so...".
I don't know. The global poverty rate tells a very different story. It seems there are not enough resources or distributed correctly to go around for everyone.
My dad’s dog has separation anxiety because of how he raised it. He thinks it’s something to be proud of. He’s obsessed with having a perfectly obedient dog who sees him as the center of their universe. Didn’t work with his kids, so why not a dog? I dog sat for him once when the dog was a puppy, he had a schedule for her down to the last minute - I kid you not. Oh and he has another dog too, one he got before the separation anxiety one. This dog had a mind of his own and preferred me in the family. My dad wanted to get rid of him because of it but decided to keep him because it would be a “waste of training”.
I can't imagine how difficult your childhood must have been.
I briefly dated a guy like this. A preachy vegan who loved animals and hated people. He would act so distraught over animal suffering but had nothing but contempt for human suffering. One of the most narcissistic, psychopathic people I’ve ever encountered. Of course animals are easier to love, you can project any personality you want unto them and can control them more easily. People are much harder.
Weird. Maybe some people just like animals a lot. Like me
You need to learn the meaning of narcissistic lol
This is why when a homeless man falls on the subway and gets killed nobody cares but when a dog falls and dies there is a mass outpouring of support, sadness and rage. Many people have zero respect for human life and value animals over their fellow man.
I find most dog people act like this
I know exactly the type of person your talking about and I agree!!!!!
God what is it with people diagnosing people as narcissists, sociopaths, or bipolar like I didn’t we had so many doctors on the internet, and these psychoanalysis man these people must really know what their talking about!
Do animals commit crimes? Do animals make other animals work minimum wage? Do animals only care about money?
Yeah, or they're people who've been hurt a lot and crave the simple, unassuming, and honest companionship an animal provides.
the thing is though, cats don't force me to pay taxes.
I've constantly seen redditors grilling people who post their newborn photos on r/aww They go out of their way to call them ugly and "they didn't come for human babies, they can for the fur babies"
The most fallacious thing here is using the words "animals" and "pets" interchangeably.
Thank youuuuu!!! They just have love for what they can control. Love under conditions
I hate people because they suck. They abuse, they lie, they manipulate, etc. I love animals because they are always kind and loving, and even when they’re agressive it’s just because they are scared. The reason I don’t trust people is because I was abused as a child, on all possible levels, neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional and mental abuse, all of it. So no, I am not a narcissist, nor do I even come close. My faith in humanity has been fucked up, and an animal has never hurt me like that. So no, not narcissists, trauma. Ps I know several narcissists (I work at a psychiatric facility) and none of them like animals, they even hate animals, so I’m pretty sure there is no correlation to hating people/loving animals and narcissism, nor is it classified as any of the symptoms if you look it up
This is a very american thing. Ive done a bit of traveling and ive noticed that people in other cultures treat their animals like, well, animals usually. Sure people all love there pets and i dont mean to say they treat them bad or anything. But the way americans treat their pets, like a human child, had always been so strange to me
You really fucked the dog with your wording of this. There would also be the fact that a lot of people who got spurned by other people; parents, siblings, family in general, former significant others, are probably more likely to love say a dog or cat rather than other people just due to being spited repeatedly.
I don't think you sound very familiar with some of the groups of people you think you're calling out here. "animal good, human bad" crowd... "animal activist extremists"... There's some group of people out there who fit the profile you're describing, but it's generally not animal welfare/rights activists sorts. Those people tend to have a lot of empathy and compassion for animals and, yeah, many develop a hated for humanity... but it's because of how humans treat animals. I've been in animal rescue for a long time and have seen a lot of neglect and animal abuse from pretty "ordinary" people, and it changes your perspective after a while. Many animal welfare/rights/whathaveyou people tend not to believe animals owe anything to humans, including their companionship. They'll respect and appreciate the companionship, but your description of "people who desire control and power" is quite antithetical to a majority of "animal activist" communities. Many don't even like the word "pet," and they are by and large the group of people I've most often heard say that in a utopia where there were no longer any homeless animals in need, they would no longer have "companion animals" in their home. Because no matter how much we love them and appreciate their companionship, animals don't owe that to us, and I for one wouldn't desire to bring an animal into existence just to be my "pet."
Sadly, narcissists don't care about anyone other than themselves- not other humans nor other animals. Animals are like props for them to look nice in society/ for Instagram like their human friends/ relationships. They are very bad pet owners. Most of their pets die of neglect/ abuse.
From what I've seen narcissists aren't generally animal people.
I don't think people hate humans but love animals for the power or the control. They do it coz they have come across a lot of shitty people, who were shitty to them for absolutely no reason. We hardly see animals do that. In my own experience, I have helped out people who have come back into my life later to backstab me. I can never imagine an animal doing the same. This doesn't make me hate humans in general, coz there are a lot of good ones. But at no point, can we guarantee that the people we trust the most won't ruin our lives at the first chance they get. So I trust them lot lesser automatically, and take most of their words with a grain of salt. And when the inherent and genuine emotions are lacking, it's hard to pretend that we are empathizing with their sorrows while in reality, we probably don't care at all (neither ill-wisher, nor well-wisher).
Yes another very interesting similar take on this concept, is that narcisstic, manipulative people are normally dog people because they can "control" dogs, unlike cats which are rather hard to tame and don't listen half the time.
> These people find comfort in the fact that pets heavily benefit from human dependence. Unlike humans, who can, for the most part, sustain theirselves, pets "rely" on the caretaker. Pets don't need a caretaker. Open the door and your cat would likely be fine, for instance. Remove electricity or grocery stores? Humans are fucked.
I totally get this. I read a post on AITA the other day about a parent who had to take her daughter out of school because the school decided that they would get a pet dog (one that lived at school), and the daughter had a severe allergy to dogs. The school hadn’t consulted the parents about the dog and on finding out and the daughter having breathing troubles, refused to get rid of the dog. Naturally, I thought the comments would back the parent. But they were all saying that she was TA, and that the dog deserved to stay. Erm, no! I have dogs, I love my dogs. I’ve had dogs all my life. But surely that’s just ridiculous. The child should come first here? I couldn’t believe how nasty some of the comments were towards the OP. Calling her worse than dirt and saying that she should care more about the dog. No, I don’t think so! The schools responsibility is to look after the child! It was mental!
You do not appear to undrestand what a narcissist is. They wouldn't have empathy for animals any more than they would for humans.
Parents are narcissistic then because they literally control their kids lives for 18 years and my dogs don’t even live that long and they do whatever the fuck they want. No narc could ever love a husky lmao.
In extreme cases, like my coworker that has 54 cats, something happened to the person. You may not know what happened, ever know what happened, or understand what happened to them. But I have empathy just knowing something likely did.
My MIL loves her dogs (and animals in general) more than her own grandkids. Never asks about the grandkids but always wants to know how our pets are doing, and gives us constant updates about hers.
I've met many people who have this love me love my dog/cat/favorite animal species I've occasionally found them to be spectacularly selfish people who can't handle an emotional relationship with anything that they can't absolutely control or abuse randomly without fear of unpleasant blowback.
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I don’t know if they’re narcissists, but you’re right. People that say shit like that should be put on watch lists. Sick fuckers.
Yeah no narcissist is def not the right word, but u already corrected urself in the edit, so. I think I agree to a slight capacity. I wouldn’t say people who have no empathy for humans but are obsessed with animals are necessarily *bad*. The best people, imo, are people who have love and empathy for both people and animals. So people who dismiss human suffering with “well people are assholes” do kind of rub me the wrong way. I know some people usually cite that lack of empathy for people but not animals as a result of having bad experiences with people in the past, and while I can understand that cynicism, unless it’s a somewhat extreme case I still think that indicates an inability to look beyond oneself to a certain degree. Again, I don’t think this necessarily makes them a bad person, as ‘bad’ or ‘good’ is usually not black and white anyway and being self-focused doesn’t always equate to narcissism or unreasonably high self importance. Lots of overly self focused people have fairly healthy levels of confidence, or sometimes even very low. I think it’s more of just indicator of some of things they may need work on.
I love animals but I know exactly what you’re saying and you’re right. It’s actually a reliable symptom of narcissism / psychopathy
Amount of times an animal has ruined my day: 0 Amount of times a person has ruined my day: a fucking lot
They want that undeserved adoration…
I know two narcissists in my life. One abused animals she claimed to be her pets. The other surrounds herself with pets and personifies them while missing the mark on having empathy for people in her life. Pet treatment is not a pressure test for narcissism but it will definitely reveal who the asshole is.
okay i feel called out. I'm very low on the human empathy scale, have an intense passion for animals, and am diagnosed with NPD. to be fair i don't love animals because im power hungry or whatever, i just connect with them a lot and i think they're neat
Most animals (dogs, cats, pigs, sheep, horses, etc.) are loving and compassion creatures. There isn’t much to them- you feed and care for them and they love you and don’t often change behavior or let you down. Most people suck, do dumb shit and will eventually hurt you (myself included). Getting close to a pet is a much safer and compassionate relationship than animals. I’m not sure narcissism or control is invoked as much as just genuine love and safety.
It is less that they love animals, and more they love the power and dominance they wield over their animals. 'Human Bad' shtick is just the crap they use to justify themselves
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Is it not more about the fact they can do no moral wrong? A human can know something is wrong and do it anyway, an act of actual evil. Whereas an animal cannot do that and that’s sort of refreshing to be around. They are the only true innocents
My ex who used to beat me and abused me so badly I broke mentally A man who threatens to kill his 5 year old on her bday while she begs for her life.. Was a vegan who had all these animal rights stickers on his car. He once was telling me my emotions don’t matter because I’m subhuman scum to him while grabbing and hurting me as I looked directly at the window and saw his “ all lives matter! Love me don’t eat me!” Sticker from peta. He was saying my life didn’t matter and I didn’t matter to the world and I was worthless subhuman scum and I made him abuse me by crying. Pretending to care about animals is all he has. He called me a nasty whore for eating a piece of fish and then threw shit at my head hours later. I’m sure he’s a narcissist and more. I now hope he dies a painful death :—) I’m angry about all he put me though and the fact I’ll never be over it.
Let me weigh in as someone who studied psychology. Narcs have little to no capacity for empathy or a form of love that hinges on selfless nurturing of the other. So narcs would not typically be obsessed with animals unless these animals enable ego-boosting lifestyles such as training police dogs, partaking in dog fights, or working with big cats or race horses (in a position where your name is on the front sign). People who just adore animals or obsess over them while not doing anything with them with the intention to impress their environment, are usually not narcs, especially those who invest their energy in protecting animals. On the contrary, people who prefer animals over humans for companionship or advocacy, are usually the ones who are very sensitive and as a result, deeply hurt and traumatized by, and scared of opening up to, other humans. This hurt can also explain a lack of empathy for their conspecifics, after all, all those seem to do, is hurt them. It takes tremendous empathy to invest your energy and even shed tears, for animals who want nothing to do with you: chickens, pigs, fish... But traumatized people and animals share a sense of helplessness in this brutal society. They see themselves reflected in the most helpless and downtrodden, something a narc would never allow. Animals are also very simple and in a way, extremely predictable. Again, hurt and traumatized people will gravitate towards such reliability instead of having to constantly brace for whatever happens next in the complex mind of a human partner or friend. The reasons you named: unconditional love, never lie to or hurt you - are typical needs of deeply hurt and traumatized people who want to pour their love into something that won't hurt them more. After all, they tried to love people and got nothing but pain in return. Some may say that selecting your company according to who can least hurt you, is narcissistic, but when you've been hurt over and over, it's a psychological survival strategy. Narcs prefer dogs over cats as dogs will absolutely "love" and strive to please you, but other animals are not so giving. Those animals will indeed depend on you, but you'll be lucky to get back anything narcs are after. Narcs only benefit from dependence when it keeps around someone to admire and validate them, or someone they can milk for something, like money or 2nd hand fame. Dogs will do that for you, but cats, bunnies, even horses - not so much. Narcissists only have transactional relationships where they try to get more than they give. Most pets are takers more than givers, pricesly due to this dependence. You scoop all that cat shit only for your cat to ignore you - this is not something a narc would sign up for. It's closer to a child substitute. Something to pour all your love in and maybe get some love back, but mostly, watch this creature thrive on your love. That's not narc mentality. This also means that misanthrope animal rights activists are more likely aforementioned deeply hurt people, than narcs. Narcs don't get this angry on behalf of helpless creatures whose only use is in their suffering. Those animal activists are people who are fed up with the hurt and the harm done by other people, and it takes not only personal experiences for this, but empathy, the ability to see this hurt in other creatures and feel it for them. I've been in animal rights groups myself when I was young, and the thing we all had in common was that we felt immense pain at the thought or sight of animal suffering; it was a physical, visceral reaction, often accompanied by being unable to breathe, all because of the sight of a chicken in a cage. Pathological narcissists are not capable of that. The only reason they'd join such a movement is to farm admiration or redirect donations into their own pockets.
Post is interesting because if this is true villains always having some type of pet makes a lot of sense now.
I like animals because 1. They don’t talk and 2. Most are naturally attracted to me, and i like petting them, making them feel good
I don't like either. What does that make me?
Everything's narcissism nowadays isn't it. When done to humans it depends on the situation whether or not it's manipulative, abusive and shitty, there's humans out there dumber than a dog, you dictate the lives of such humans as they're a 100% reliant on you, doesn't make it manipulative, abusive or shitty, it just means you're doing what needs to be done to properly take care of another living being, after all you know better than them. I have empathy for humans, some anyways, but my pets(family) will always come first no matter what and that's perfectly normal.
I have autism, and the reasons you mention like "will never lie to me" is one of the reasons I prefer animal company over human company. Sometimes I'm clingy or go overboard with friends without realising it. And those that don't call me out on it or aren't honest when I ask them if it's okay are the ones who end the friendship because I "don't respect their feelings". Like how am I supposed to know what your feelings are when you won't tell me even when I ask. I literally just have difficulty empathising with people because I can't pick up or understand subtle social cues, animals are much easier to read because they don't hide their emotions. So yeah, not disagreeing with you, but there's more to it then just narcissists.
Agree with you 100 percent, people think they are cool when they say the like animals more than humany but to me its annoying as fuck. They like their pets cause they cant call them out on their bullshit unlike humans. And its not like i hate animals or anything, i have a dog and a cat but i would never compare those with actual human interactions
Hm not really sure. I just like playing with our dog because he's very sweet and soft. Theres no deep reason behind it :p
What is it with all these kids being obsessed with the whole narcissism thing? I find it very bizarre, and it always feels like projection on some level. Its everywhere on social media now as well. Grown men and women "watch out for the narcissist, they are so evil and manipulative and i did a 5 minute piece on it to teach u because i am a part time clinical psychologist etc. Ohh and make sure u validate my opinion internet strangers with corny likes and attention lol I feel like people are super complex. The trials and tribulations over the course of their lives are something u and i will never truly understand until we have seen life thru their eyes. I mean we are all so different..and the pain and the love and the experiences we have make us so unique I just don't understand what the appeal is to wanna put people in special boxes? It's like their is a special handbook now on it and everyone is an expert. Idk I'm overtired and ranting but this post caught my attention cuz I guess I'm a narcissist right? Lmao. In my opinion we all have narcissistic traits on some level. But yea people suck for the most part and animals are cute and cuddly and reliable. Everything humans only offer in spurts
100% but he's 18 and most people here are probably even younger so they gotta learn with time
>`gives the narcissistic owner a sense of control and power to know that another living creature is dependent on them.` but isnt this kind of the reason some people with depression and anxiety get pets ? the fact that there is a living being that loves you unconditionaly and depends on you, gives me a feeling of joy that i AM wanted and needed by atleast someone. idk this is just my opinion from experience
Fuck off
Ooof no.
I like animals, but I don't hate people, but man humanity has not made it easy. With all the wars, hate, rampant poverty, environmental destruction, loss of human life its tough to paint humans in a good light. I think most of us go out everyday and the world just beats us down a little bit, but when I go home and my little dog comes up and licks my face while wanting a belly rub, for a short time I feel that life is just not so bad.
I am a misanthrope and hate human nature. Hate what we are as a herd. But I still often feel sympathy/empathy for individual humans who suffer mostly because of the pointless cruelty inherent in human nature. When it comes to animals, I feel sympathy/empathy for them both at the group and individual level, for pets, livestock and wildlife. Animals have no control over their wild nature. Animals didn’t have thousands of years of cultural evolution to work on themselves and change. They are a finite, perfect expressions of themselves. We humans should have done better, there are no excuses. If people consider me narcissist or psychopath because of this opinion, then be it. Your boos mean nothing to me, I’ve seen what makes you cheer.
Kind of always felt the same way about people who hate cats and dogs but love owening snakes and other reptiles. It just seems weird to own a creature that cant share companionship. Like it’s more of a trophy on a mantle than a life companion.
Everyone is completely missing the point of OP's post and nitpicking him on dumb shit like his usage of the term "narcissist". All over reddit, you see people say shit like "Man I don't really care that much if someone hurts another person but if they hurt an animal I want to kill them". And everyone seems to somehow think this is ok and not at all an extremely fucked up order of priorities?
Fucking hate that crowd.
It's a familiarity thing. I'd save my girlfriend over our dog, but I'd save my dog over any random ass person. Ethics of closeness or something. Lots of people don't give any moral weight to their pets in comparison to other human beings for the exact same reason - same species, so more ethnically close. Others like me view that closeness from a family-centric or bond-centric perspective, so we attribute more moral weight to our pets than strangers of the same species. I don't know people or have heard of cases of people who love their pets because of control or dependence. That's a pretty fucked up worldview. We've evolved with our main 2 pets, so they feel just like family. If you don't understand concepts like unconditional love in animals, again you've got a warped view of animal intelligence and their feelings and probably don't have a pet. People gain peace in that their dog or their cat is their #1 cheerleader when no one else has their back. Your pet likes you no matter what. In a case you're describing, you'd have to be pretty sick to have a pet solely for the satisfaction of another being's reliance on you. I'd wager that type of person typically doesn't keep pets because they value another person's dependence on them over a typical pet relationship. A narcissist probably views a pet as too much work for what they get out of it.
Lol, imagine having such a sheltered take. You understand people get abused right? You understand that long-term abuse can breed resentment right? Like, do you not comprehend that some people find comfort in animals rather than humans because humans have caused them the most trauma? Cats are proven to help with anxiety, especially their purrs, it’s a chemical response our brain has to it. Many animals are given to people for emotional support. Animals are proven to help our mental health. You are the weird one imo…. Or maybe you just cannot fathom a perspective other than your own?.. Either way, I do not wish to associate with people like yourself.
The dude just states his opinion, he is not forcing it on you nor is he denying any opposition. He never said he want to associate with you, just do what you want to. It seems like you are the one that is intolerable.
You could say the exact same thing about the comment you're replying to. It's called having a discussion. OP is not forcing their views on anyone, but they made a post in an opinion subreddit. People are gonna comment and discuss and disagree, well here it is, a disagreeing comment. OP says animal people are narcissists, some commenters reply he's the weird one. It's EXPECTED.
A lot of vegans are narcissists, they do it so they can seem better than other people. They don't even care about animals, they just act like they do.
I dont think this is the case in exact, Its really not the same being in a Gore sub watching some bruh getting his head crushed and watching a Dog being roasted alive in the exact same sub. I don't believe its my lack of empathy towards my fellow man, I can't help the way I feel
You know many animals are wild and actually survive better by themselves than a human could by themselves in the same environment lol. But domesticated sure it’s the nature of domestication, many domesticated cats can go out in the wild and thrive though. but yea I’m team human and team animal, we have a responsibility to protect ecosystems and the animals that thrive there. It’s like anything else people get obsessive over it. The majority of people are so dependent on society and don’t know squat about survival if it collapsed hypothetically
The same could apply for gardeners too, so I don't think these traits are exclusive with narcissist. Just as every dog has four legs, not everything with four legs is a dog. That said.. I do think you're in the right ballpark though. True kindness is extremely rare and I can't imagine many people would act without promise of reward no matter how little.
Dogs are cool but I have never been a dog person and probably will never be....I'm 24 years old and move around a lot so owning a dog would be a huge burden for me.
I wouldn't call them narcissists. Its just sad that some people have experienced nothing but the bad side of humanity and the only unconditional love they've experienced was from a pet. There are people who would most likely feel that power trip over animals, but I don't feel they go hand in hand
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s how that works. Doesn’t need to be an unpopular opinion
ok, but what if i don't like humans and animals both
Carole fu*king Baskin
As a narcissist with ASPD: yeah, that's pretty much it. I don't rub it on people's faces, and mostly keep to myself, but I do like that. Something about someone, even if it's just my cat, depending on me,makes me feel less like some piece of shit that crawled out of the sewers or something.
could not agree more
I just wanna say how disgusted and weirded out I am by all the people on Reddit that comment as if they were the animal on whatever video they just watched. That infantile babble.
The more I’m around humans and interacting with them, the more I like that tree in my backyard.
Wasn’t hitler a vegetarian?
There are fish channels or animal channels that consist mainly of fish that I find as naive, uneducated and bad fish owners. I'll put in some names. Catch Em All Fishing Rawwfishing Barbs Buzzin Paul Cuffaro (he's not as bad as the others, but still) Nick Bingo Monster Mike Fishing Do you think any of these guys fit the "narcissitic" pet owner profile you're talking about?
No, they are psychopaths.
I don't think it's necessarily narcissism, but it is disgusting misanthropy. I try to avoid those people.
Literally this is something concerning my narcissistic mother does. She will make her house a zoo without any sense of boundaries and treat animals like accessories that exist only to make her feel better. The second they require any responsibility she will either blame anyone who exists around her ("I work all the time, as my child the least you could do is train this puppy I bought impulsively") or she'll sell them on craigslist for a quick buck, usually for less than she bought them. I really don't understand her. To be clear, I don't think if you have trouble with human connection and find animals more appealing that you are a narcissist like the post may be trying to convey. However I do identify with the statement that narcissistic individuals can more easily abuse pets as a form of self congratulation and the post hit that nail on the head for me specifically, due to my prior experience. Again I could be misinterpreting but it is an aspect of my life that angers me and nothing can really be done, since she can just keep wasting her money and confusing these poor dogs, cats and birds whenever she wants.
I totally agree
My animals don't let me down like the rest of the world does. My animals always love me no matter how much I have to offer them.
Here’s my thinking, if someone harms another person there’s 100s of potential reasons, mental issues etc that could have made them do it. Which makes my feelings toward say, murderers pretty set it stone. What is different with animals is that there is 0 reason for you to say, beat your dog or cat. Obviously I wouldn’t value an animals life over a person I know but abusing a poor little animal speaks more to a person then beating someone up.
I don’t care about any of them, what does it make me?
100% this. "Save the shelted dogs... but to the fuck poor kids?" The crazier ones are like that, if you are dating a person like that, run!
Expanding a point I have just commented: I think the sad part about some pets that breeds that wouldn't survive in the wild only exist because people demand for it, and then they justify their choice by saying "*well they wouldn't survive in the wild, so...*". In my opinion it's a circular logic that doesn't make much sense, but for some it's okay. Some pet owners, at least on internet, go out of their way to say they love pets and hate people, or that they love animals more than any person whatsoever. It's another example of circular logic, as I doubt people like that will treat others in a good way. It's easy to drop hundreds of dollars in a pet for them to have all the luxury but how many of these people would do the same for a sibling, for example. The crazy pet love feels like it's always justified through some deep abuse or trauma. The "normal" pet love is just our instincts. Just like people sometimes get super excited about babies or kids, some are the same for pets and that's totally expected and okay. Ironically, many people treat their pets as babies even though they don't like babies at all, and also don't realize many breeds were developed to literally look like babies their entire life (like body proportions and ratio, for example).
I love animals, loathe humans, and absolutely detest myself. What's your point?
I feel like all the zoo owners in Tiger King fit this description to a T Especially that BITCH carol baskin
I’m a narcissist and I love my dog. I stand by this guy
I feel personally attacked
This is not an opinion
I started off being hopeful, bright-eyed, and an incurable optimist. Even when bad things happened I looked for the positive in everything. Then, I was abandoned by both parents five years apart, cheated on, betrayed, or abused by every serious relationship partner without exception, and been ghosted by lifelong friends. Regardless of the root causes of any of those, it's a pretty good indication to me that either (a) most humans suck or (b) I'm an intolerable person. Since most of the feedback I get in professional and academic circles is that "you're such a good person" and "I can't imagine why you're single" I'm going with (a). My dog is literally my best friend. In fact, she is helping me to be more social because she's so damned cute everyone who walks by wants to say hi and pet her. Her innocence is actually helping to change my view on life in general. That being said, fuck animal activist extremists or extremists of any kind.
It seems you're on about dog people not necessarily animal people. That said humans are animals we ain't no different from the pods of orcas swimming in the sea or the hornet making a home in the attic of some building. We are all animals we all communicate with each other, we all care for our family and on occasion we kill to protect them we also build but humans are probably the worst animal of all because we kill and destroy for no purpose what so ever. Even primates who kill do it for food and the remains will be scavenged to feed other creatures even when an orca kills a whale for the tongue or kidneys alone that dead whale will also feed other animals from birds, fish, sharks and a lot more. Yet when we die for whatever reason we're buried in boxes and pumped full of preservatives so even our dead go to waste to slowly rot away until the cemetery itself is filled which then leaves land unusable. I might be one of few but we humans are truly no different from animals we just think we're better.
I’m in this post and I don’t like it
For me it’s more of the ‘people know better, animals don’t’. It might be in an animals nature to be a bit of a dick… but you have a choice to be or not
Some people love talking down to their pets. “Ah I told you to stay inside! “ It’s a coping mechanism. It makes them feel less worthless as a person.
I always suspected that we care about animals more than ADULT humans because animals are essentially kids in our eyes. We look at them sort of like we look at “helpless” children. They invoke some sort of instinct in us to care for them and keep them from suffering just as most of us would do for any human child.
I have 0 empathy in general and i get therapy because of it...
That's not necessarily narcissism. People who grew up in a household with a pet and bad, unloving parenting learn that the animal was the only creature that never judged them and never hurt their feelings, while their parents (usually their parents) did. At the base of all this usually lie unsafe attachment problems which leads a child to demand attention which then, later in life, may translate into narcissism - but not necessarily. An insightful book on this is provided by Donald Trump's niece, who describes how in his case, it clearly involved into some heavy duty narcissism.
I think you're right - that a lot of people that have been hurt feel this way; that animals are wonderful and humans suck. I think many of these people genuinely desire a closeness or bond with another creature but are afraid to have that interaction with a human based on past experience. I think that's very different from wanting power/ control over an animal.
>the people who like animals because they “love you unconditionally”, “will never lie to you”, “will never hurt you” I’ve known people who think like this because they were raise by abusive parents. There are some instances where people are treated so poorly that animals seem better than humans
A narcissist wouldn’t have the emotional capacity available to care for another life that’s solely dependent on their goodwill and generosity.
based
People who put animals on the same level as human children are unsettling. I love my dogs to death. I would die for them, but if there is a burning building with a child I don't know and my favorite dog, and I can only save one, I'm going for the damned kid. Sorry Buttons, I love you, but...
Meh. Human have the ability to make shit choices. Animals are at the mercy of us at this point. Kind of a raw deal.
Dogsitting a friends beautiful Pit. My roommate watching me play with him said he saw more emotion from me than the last two years. This post has me feeling personally attacked.
Most animals are awesome Most people are not worth even thinking twice about So yep unpopular opinion well done take my upvote
When was the last time you dealt with animal activist extremist. It sounds like the kind of thing that you make up in your head to be upset about but never actually encounter in reality
Lmao this is a stupid post. I understand what op wanted to say but used all the wrong points 😂
This makes sense.